This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Eli Tokash: Hey everyone, and welcome or welcome back to Take A Bow Podcast.

[0:04] Sydney Lucas: I'm Sydney Lucas.

[0:05] Eli Tokash: And I'm Eli Tokash. And today we have a literal international theater star.

[0:11] Sydney Lucas: She has been nominated for multiple Tony's, Grammys, and Olivier Awards.

[0:17] Eli Tokash: Um, she has been in so many productions, theater productions, and she's also the singing voice of none other than Pocahontas. Today we have on Judy Kuhn, who is such an incredible person, and we had such an amazing interview with her.

[0:35] Sydney Lucas: And, uh, she was my stage mama in Fun Home, and, uh, I learned so much from her during that time.

[0:41] Eli Tokash: Yeah, I mean, just within the hour that we interviewed her, I learned so much. She literally touched on Broadway and the West End and just like everything. She's she was just a book of knowledge, so we're excited for you guys to listen.

[0:54] Sydney Lucas: So without further ado, Judy Kuhn, curtain up.

[1:33] Eli Tokash: She has shown time and time again the incredible depth and range of her seemingly endless talents. And along with this, she is one of the most compassionate, loving, and genuine people I know. Everyone, please welcome my stage mama, the queen herself, Judy Kuhn.

[1:51] Judy Kuhn: Yeah.

[1:59] Eli Tokash: I love you.

[2:00] Judy Kuhn: I didn't mean to make you cry.

[2:03] Eli Tokash: I love you too.

[2:05] Judy Kuhn: I love you, Jeannie. I miss you.

[2:06] Eli Tokash: I miss seeing your face every day.

[2:09] Judy Kuhn: I know. I miss you too.

[2:11] Eli Tokash: I miss you. I miss everybody from our little stage family.

[2:16] Judy Kuhn: No.

[2:17] Eli Tokash: I know. We're so excited to have you on today. Thank you for giving us your time. And we look forward to sharing this with our listeners.

[2:24] Judy Kuhn: So it's gonna be a fun one.

[2:26] Eli Tokash: It's nice.

[2:27] Judy Kuhn: Yeah, of course. Nice to meet you and to see you.

[2:29] Eli Tokash: Yes, nice to meet you.

[2:31] Judy Kuhn: Okay, so let's just start from the beginning. And it's so cool because I think you probably have. We were brainstorming questions. I think we have more questions for you than we have had for any guest.

[2:48] Eli Tokash: Um, so I don't know how many we're gonna be able to get through. Um, but it's so cool because I've known you for so long, but there are so many questions in here that I have never asked you.

[2:58] Judy Kuhn: So I guess I know.

[2:59] Eli Tokash: Um, I can't wait to hear what they are.

[3:03] Judy Kuhn: Um, okay. So first things first, I want to know when did you first know you liked performing? When what what sparked that passion for you?

[3:13] Judy Kuhn: Oh, well that I have to go really, really far back for that. Um, to probably when I was maybe even younger than you are now.

[3:23] Eli Tokash: Oh yeah.

[3:23] Judy Kuhn: Maybe not all right. Maybe I didn't know that I loved performing then, but I knew I loved the theater then. Because my parents always took me to the theater, and I thought it was the most magical, just I I don't I I just was so excited by it.

[3:40] Judy Kuhn: And I had this real sense of that, you know, what we call this um suspension of disbelief. Like I under somehow instinctually I understood what that was. I knew that I was watching a group of actors create this world that I was completely enthralled and drawn in by and drawn into.

[4:03] Judy Kuhn: And I think maybe somewhere in there I thought I'd like to do that, but I don't I the first time I really got up on stage and performed was probably in high school, and I really, really loved it. I really ways back.

[4:18] Eli Tokash: So would you say like watching shows definitely helped that passion, you know, get into like you leading to up to you to performing and absolutely. Uh I just I was just um transported by the my theater experiences I had when I was very young.

[4:36] Sydney Lucas: It's a good word.

[4:37] Judy Kuhn: Yeah.

[4:38] Eli Tokash: Yeah, theater's literally one of the most beautiful things anybody can go watch and escape to for the two and a half hours that they're able to do so. Um, so Sydney mentioned in the intro, I mean, you are the voice of the legendary Pocahontas. Like that is Sydney and I's childhood, and like we were like, oh my god, we have to ask her all these questions.

[5:02] Judy Kuhn: Um so I mean that that is so cool. That song alone is literally one of the most classic Disney songs ever. So, like, did you ever imagine that at the time when you were recording it that it was gonna be something that special?

[5:18] Judy Kuhn: Well, you never know, as you both know as performers and artists, you never know how something you work on will be received by others, but I knew it was a really good song.

[5:29] Judy Kuhn: Yeah, really good song. And um it was the very first thing they wrote for that movie before there was a script or anything, it was just an idea. And I recorded the demo for it. So I already knew the song when I was got involved with making the movie.

[5:48] Judy Kuhn: Oh and it is a great song, thank God, because I've had to sing it a lot.

[5:54] Eli Tokash: I know, I bet it's shorter if I didn't like the song.

[5:57] Judy Kuhn: Do people still ask you to sing it?

[5:59] Judy Kuhn: Oh my god, are you kidding? All the time. All the time.

[6:03] Eli Tokash: No way, that's amazing.

[6:05] Judy Kuhn: But you know, the other thing that's amazing about that song is that it's you know, it it's outside of the context of the movie. It's a song that has so much meaning, and it continues to have meaning, and it in some ways, you know. I I've in recent years when I've sung it, it feels like it's even more meaningful now than it was then because of all the issues and things we're talking about and confronting in our world right now, about nature, about climate change, about racism, and all of those things.

[6:42] Judy Kuhn: It speaks to all of those things, and I so I I find it a very meaningful thing to sing.

[6:48] Sydney Lucas: Yeah, and timeless.

[6:49] Judy Kuhn: Yes, exactly. I mean, it would be nice if there was a time when it lost that meaning because we weren't worrying about those things anymore, but probably not in my lifetime.

[7:01] Eli Tokash: Honestly, at this rate, probably not in ours.

[7:04] Judy Kuhn: Yeah, I probably. Well, hopefully some future generation will hear that song and think, it's so quaint. I wonder what that means.

[7:11] Sydney Lucas: Yeah.

[7:11] Eli Tokash: That's so cool. You're like the singing voice of a Disney princess, no big deal. Um, but we I mean, we gotta talk about your just incredible theater career. Something I remember from Fun Home, um, something that I was so impactful for me, was you were always encouraging me to take care of my, you know, my physical health, my mental health over anything else.

[7:41] Judy Kuhn: And um if ever, you know, I felt at a crossroads between, you know, feeling guilty because I wanted to do a good job, or you know, feeling as if you know, I I needed I needed a break or I needed to I I guess maybe miss a show or whatever to take care of my mental health. I would always go to you because you would always just give me this all of this wonderful advice, and you would always like make me feel okay. You would help me remember what's important. And that helped me so much.

[8:14] Judy Kuhn: That makes me so happy to hear you say that.

[8:19] Eli Tokash: Yeah because you know, I played your mother.

[8:22] Judy Kuhn: Exactly.

[8:23] Eli Tokash: And I am a mother.

[8:24] Judy Kuhn: Yeah.

[8:25] Eli Tokash: And my maternal instincts are huge.

[8:28] Judy Kuhn: Exactly. I mean, you were you were like my mother backstage. Truly. You you you were always you know, you were always you were so young when we started working on that show together. I mean, weren't you were nine years old, right?

[8:43] Eli Tokash: Weren't you?

[8:43] Judy Kuhn: Yeah, I had just turned nine, yeah.

[8:45] Judy Kuhn: And you were so young, and it was there you had to deal with so much during the course of that long journey that we went on. Where that and years that are really formative years for any person, you know, go moving out of childhood into adolescence, early adolescence. And it's uh, you know, that you were you had a lot on your tiny shoulders back then. You know, and it was you know, it was a new show. It wasn't just that you were, you know, partly carrying a show. It was that it was new and and that's challenge for anyone, no matter how older experience, when new things are being thrown at you all the time, and it it's it's was a lot and you dealt with it with such maturity and grace, it was astonishing.

[9:36] Judy Kuhn: But you know, I I know when I get in, you know, overly anxious or worried or depressed or whatever during the course of a of you know, developing a show, I have more you know, as I've gotten older, I've developed more resources to deal with that. When you're nine or Dan, you don't haven't developed those resources yet, you know. There are things you learn as you do, you know.

[10:06] Eli Tokash: I'll tell you what though, like you were the most incredible role model for that. And um and you know, you you are just I mean, you you had so much experience in theater, you like you said, you you built up those tools and those resources. And um I wanted to know what kind of things have you learned over the years to make sure you continue to stay like healthy and happy while performing.

[10:32] Judy Kuhn: Ah, well, I think there's lots of things and different things in different parts of my life, you know. Um I would say as I got older, you know, having my you know, my family, my friends, my personal private life are essential to me. And I think you have to tend to the to the to that that and those things and those people keep you grounded and you know showbiz doesn't always go well, but you always want to have a home to come home to that's happy and healthy and right.

[11:11] Eli Tokash: Right.

[11:11] Judy Kuhn: Yeah. And also just as far as the work goes, I I think that having that too and having other things that you're interested in and passionate about too in your life when you're challenged by your work life, you have those things to keep you in balance. You know what I mean?

[11:31] Eli Tokash: Yeah.

[11:32] Judy Kuhn: Right. And also I think just as the work goes, I think you have to learn how to trust yourself and trust your own instincts when you come up against challenging situations. I and you learn how to depend on the people around you who you trust you know to keep you sane.

[11:58] Eli Tokash: Yeah.

[11:59] Judy Kuhn: You know and you and you do have to take care of your body and you have to take care of your um your sense of well being you know otherwise you're just no good in the rehearsal room or on stage.

[12:12] Eli Tokash: Yeah. That's so true. I mean if you it's it's people some people don't realize like how important taking how how much your health can affect your performance. It's it's it's such an integral part of of one's performance. And and you know you you not only taught me from that you know personal level taking care of yourself and you were always someone that I I trusted to go to and and just give me that advice but I man working alongside you and Michael like every day and just watching you and working with you it was like a literal mastery class day in and day out and um I mean being the the phenomenal actors that you are that you two are I mean watch watching you and working with you was invaluable to me and it helped me as a person grow so much and I also I wanted to know was there anyone in your career who acted as that mentor figure to you that helped you grow as an artist.

[13:17] Judy Kuhn: Well you know I feel incredibly well first of all thank you for saying that I feel incredibly lucky because all throughout my career I have worked with actors and directors who have taught me so so much. And I I had an acting teacher when I first moved to New York when I was in my early 20s and um he was a wonderful man named John Sticks who's no longer with us. He was a teacher at Juilliard and he taught this class privately and I took his class and he at one point I was going to um I I was applying to graduate schools for acting and I was in this the middle of this decision about what school to go to, whether to go to school, and I got offered a job.

[14:09] Judy Kuhn: And I said to him, what should I do? Should I take this job or should I go back to school? And he said, you know, work. I never will know what it would have been like, what my career would have been like had I gone back to school. There's part of me that wouldn't I had. But the thing that he said to me that was so invaluable was he said, make the rehearsal room your classroom. And I really took that to heart. And you know, I, as I said, I was just really lucky. I mean, early on in my career, I got to work with incredible directors like Trevor Nunn and Wilfred Leach. And I worked with actors like Betty Buckley and Howard McGillen and Joe Grafazi, and I'm thinking of all like this, the first Broadway shows I did.

I worked with Teresa Stratas and Larry Kurt. I mean, I've worked with all these incredible, incredible people who all came at the work from different places, in terms of their own technique and experience, and brought something different to it, and we're all had their own kind of excellence. And so I really, really paid attention. I mean, my first big show in New York was The Mystery of Edwin Drood, which was at, we did it in the park at the Delacorte in the summer, and then it moved to Broadway. It was my first Broadway show, and I understudied Betty Buckley and Patty Cohen. So I sat in on every rehearsal and watched. So, you know, that cast was a cast of superstars. And just watching all of them was incredible. It was incredible.

[16:01] Eli Tokash: Doesn't the audience decide who did it?

[16:04] Judy Kuhn: Yes. And then don't you have to have like all these pre-planned sings? Well, there were every, you know, they decided who the murderer was, and they decided there was a mystery man who shows up in the second act, and they had to decide who they thought that was because it was sort of apparent that that was one of the other characters in disguise. It was someone in disguise. So they voted on who that was and who the murderer was. And there was a song. Each principal had a song. If they were chosen, they had to sing that song.

[16:40] Eli Tokash: Wow, that's so cool. And can you imagine having to, um, how do you, I can't even, I mean, I'll tell you a story please because I, as I said, I understudied those two characters, and they were completely different. I mean, Patty played the soprano ingenue, and Betty played the belty, you know, leading lady. And I never went on when we were in the park. In fact, I almost went on for Betty, but it rained the night she called in the case.

[17:21] Judy Kuhn: Wait, so in the park, it was outdoors.

[17:23] Eli Tokash: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I think our second or third preview on Broadway, and there had been changes in the show, and it was restaged for Broadway and all of that. I hadn't had any understudy rehearsals yet. And gosh, I think that was our second or third preview. It was half hour, and I was all dressed in my chorus costume because I was so excited to be on Broadway. And I, oh no, no, wait, no, that was a different story. Sorry, I'm getting my stories mixed up. No, that it was our second or third preview, and I got a call in the afternoon, about two or three in the afternoon. They said Patty was out that night. Oh my gosh. And they said, get in here, we have to fit you in her costumes, and we have to do a put-in rehearsal.

So I went in, I did my put-in, everyone was, the whole company was so great and so supportive, and they were really great throughout the show of sort of making sure I knew where to go and what to do. And then we got to when the audience voted, and I thought, oh my god, I'm done because no one's gonna vote for me, the understudy. And there was a moment when everybody held up their number, and that's how the audience voted. Right. And then, of course, all the principals would stand at the front of the stage and sort of flirt with the audience, try and get them to vote for them. And then at the end of the voting, everyone filed off stage left and handed their number to the stage manager, and that stage manager would tell the person if they were voted the murderer. And anyway, so I handed over my number. Oh, and the Rosa Budd, that character I was playing, had to go right back on stage. So I handed my number, and the stage manager said, it's you.

[19:21] Eli Tokash: No way.

[19:23] Judy Kuhn: Very funny. I thought they were playing a joke on me, and they said, no, no, no, it's you. Oh my god. And I just panicked because, you know, I had to learn two tracks. Big ones. And so I always sort of thought that was gonna be the last thing I was really gonna focus on. Right. Anyway, the next thing I knew I was being, you know, put a hat and a shawl were being put on me, and I was being shoved back out on stage to listen to the great late great Cleo Lane sing this beautiful song, and I sat at her feet looking up at her, thinking, oh my god, what are the lyrics to that song? Oh no. And somehow I managed to get through it because I don't have any memory of it, but nobody told me I didn't get through it. So I figured there you go. That's all that matters. Show must go on.

[20:10] Eli Tokash: Dude, I freak. I can't even, I mean, because there's so many different possible outcomes, and you have to prepare for every single one of those outcomes. That's insane.

[20:22] Judy Kuhn: There's only the one outcome. You have to learn your the murderer song. And actually, I realized that the mystery man was actually the one that Betty played. So as her understudy, I had to learn that song as well. Anyway, um, it's all, it was crazy. That was a very long story, sorry.

[20:40] Eli Tokash: No, no, you're good. It's true though. I mean, like I've worked with like Kelsey Grammer and Dan Loria and Matthew Morrison and like all these people, and it's so true that like I love what you said about making your rehearsal room the classroom. Like that is something that like really was like, wow. Because it's so true. Like, I mean, you're with like the people that are already in the industry, like you can't learn from anybody better. And by the way, that should be your motto for your entire career.

[21:10] Judy Kuhn: I still feel that way. You know, I felt that way when we were rehearsing Fun Home. I mean, yeah, there were a lot of people to learn from in that room, you know.

[21:19] Eli Tokash: Oh yeah, of course. Well, and that's been the fun thing about this, you know, you can never stop learning. So, like talking to people like you helps us learn and just like teaches us so much. So it's been awesome to like hear that from you is just really cool.

[21:33] Judy Kuhn: I'm remembering something that Beth said in her episode, your wonderful solo, Days and Days in Fun Home. Was that, that wasn't always you? You were part of the show from pretty early on, but that wasn't always part of the show.

[21:50] Eli Tokash: I did they give any when I the first reading that I did, which Beth was also a part of, I think she and I were the only ones who wound up doing the show who were in part of that reading.

[22:02] Judy Kuhn: Wow. There was, uh, this, the Helen was not on the page very much. There was a lot of stuff they were still figuring out. And there, but there was that scene, you know, between Medium Allison and Helen. Yeah. Not it, I think a lot of it was what wound up being in the show, but was probably a little different, I don't remember. And then after the speech, or whatever the speech was, when I revealed to Medium Allison about Bruce, it said song to come. They knew there was gonna be a song there, but they hadn't written it yet. And at the end of our two, you know, every day I would go, Janine, have you written that song yet? Then about two days before our final presentation, she came running in with this and said, I have the song. And she sat down at the piano and played it for me. And I thought that was worth waiting for.

[23:08] Eli Tokash: Oh yeah. And was it pretty much the same song?

[23:12] Judy Kuhn: Yeah. Oh wow. Yeah, no, it's never changed. It never changed. No. Oh, that's all we wait one tweak when the writing because there was one lyric that didn't scan very well and at least it just like changed the wording a little bit. But otherwise it didn't change. Wow. That's so rare. That's really fascinating.

[23:31] Judy Kuhn: And now for a brief intermission to get a beverage, go to the bathroom, whatever you need. After all, we are at the theater. Well, our home theaters. But you get to just so leading up to, you know, COVID and all of that craziness that we're living in today, um, you were actually gonna be in the off-Broadway production of Assassins.

[23:53] Eli Tokash: Yes. Did you by chance like start that process or like two weeks into rehearsal?

[24:01] Judy Kuhn: Oh my god, so what was that like? You're in rehearsal and then you hear that it's just not gonna happen.

[24:07] Well, it's funny because, you know, we were just, um, well it is gonna happen by the way. Classic Stage is planning to reopen the theater with that production. It's just a matter of good, um, and like all nonprofit theaters in New York, they all, everybody's trying to figure out how to keep the sustain the theater until they can reopen their doors.

[24:33] Eli Tokash: Right.

[24:33] Judy Kuhn: You know, when the, from the I think from the very first day of rehearsal, there was this sense of like something is coming that's not very good. And, um, you know, there was just talk of like how is this, there is this virus out there, and is it gonna affect us, the city? Is it gonna affect theaters? Because I think we, you know, you know that if there's a contagion, being in a theater is not the best place to be.

[25:02] Eli Tokash: Yeah.

[25:03] Judy Kuhn: So, um, you know, we were continuing to listen to the news and stuff. It was the second week of rehearsal that really became apparent that something was gonna happen. I remember the day, it was the Thursday before we stopped that Broadway shutdown. And they hadn't said anything about off-Broadway. And there was a pushing the first performance off by two or three weeks and then rehearsing in a limited way so that not everybody had to come in every day that we could work with two or three people at a time, and maybe we'd come in once or twice a week, you know. But then, of course, by Monday we left on that Friday or Saturday thinking we were gonna see each other the following week, and then Monday they closed off-Broadway, and that was that.

[25:55] Eli Tokash: Oh wow.

[25:56] Judy Kuhn: Wow. So it was painful, but they're very committed to it. And the other wonderful thing about it is that it was sold out. They were about to use another extension, and only five percent of ticket holders asked for their money back.

[26:12] Eli Tokash: Oh wow.

[26:13] Judy Kuhn: There's a whole lot of people out there are hanging on to those tickets because they're determined to see the show. So of course they, I mean that cast is unbelievable. It is a great cast, and I'm telling you, it was such a fun room to talk about a room you can live in.

[26:25] Eli Tokash: Oh, I bet.

[26:26] Judy Kuhn: It was a fun room to be in. Are you doing it with Zell?

[26:29] Eli Tokash: Zell Steel Marlowe?

[26:30] Judy Kuhn: Yes, Zell is gonna be my son again.

[26:33] Eli Tokash: I love that.

[26:35] Judy Kuhn: One tiny scene, you know, when he comes on stage when I'm about to try to kill the president and he comes on stage asking for money for ice cream.

[26:43] Eli Tokash: Oh nice.

[26:44] Judy Kuhn: I'm trying to get rid of it.

[26:47] Eli Tokash: That's so funny.

[26:48] Judy Kuhn: You know, hopefully he won't get too tall between now and whenever we're gonna be able to do that.

[26:52] Eli Tokash: Oh, I didn't even think of that.

[26:55] Judy Kuhn: That is a thing with child actors.

[27:01] Eli Tokash: Yes, it is, as we know from experience.

[27:04] Judy Kuhn: We know, um, he's tiny though. He'll stay tiny.

[27:10] Eli Tokash: Yeah, he'll, he'll stay tiny.

[27:12] Judy Kuhn: I hope that he will still be able to do it. But um, yeah, so there, you know, there are a lot of people holding on to tickets and a lot of people who will want to buy tickets when the thing, when we get back to work whenever that is.

[27:25] Eli Tokash: Well, that's a good sign, yeah.

[27:26] Judy Kuhn: At least there's that to look forward to. Hopefully it'll be next fall. That's my hope. You know, I mean, it all depends on the vaccine because no one's gonna go back to the theater until the vaccine is widespread.

[27:52] Eli Tokash: So we've never actually talked about West End on the podcast. So Sydney and I are very curious. I'm not sure about our listeners. Um, but would you say there's a large difference between the two? Um I know you were in a production of Fiddler on the Roof in the West End, and you actually did it on Broadway. So was there any difference in that production? Like were totally different.

[28:19] Judy Kuhn: Um but the I mean the pr the production that I did in London didn't start in the West End. It started at a little tiny theater called the Meignet Chocolate Factory. Oh wow. And it is um uh about uh let's see how many you know I can't remember how many people are in there. Hundred, two hundred, a hundred, a tiny theater. So it was the production was incredibly intimate, very real feeling. You know, Trevor Nunn's concept was he wanted it to feel like real people live in a real village and that the audience was in the village with us. We did it in three quarters. There was a well that you pumped and water came out, you know.

[29:07] Eli Tokash: Wow, that's so back in their houses and so it was very it was there was a it had a texture to it that was very unusual, and I I'd never seen in a production of Fiddler. So when we moved to the West End, um uh they try, you know, obviously it's big theater, um, they tried to maintain that sense of intimacy by they put um audience in the boxes on stage, they brought the medium out into the audience, they built a walkway through the audience so people were walking through the audience all the time, and um, so it really did maintain its intimacy, which was great.

[29:49] Judy Kuhn: Right. But I I would, you know, it's hard to say exactly what the difference is. Um there is a cultural difference, I think they have a deeper tradition of theater going in London. Economics are different. So more I I I would say audiences are more diverse in in every way across generations, genders, um races, cultures because it's more to for more affordable. You know the the the what we c would call off Broadway theaters here, the the the resident companies there do all kinds of different work. I I just it feels a little bit more like going to the movies in a way.

[30:39] Eli Tokash: Oh okay you go to peop the way people go to the theater there. You know you can see a production at the old Vic for 20 pounds.

[30:47] Judy Kuhn: Wow whoa and you're seeing some of the best theater in the world you know for much the because the theaters there and this isn't the West End the West end is commercial like Broadway is but um the non profit whatever they're well I don't I guess what do they call that I I don't know what whatever they're they're subsidized by the government. So they can ha afford to have low ticket prices.

[31:17] Eli Tokash: Right. So that just builds theater going into the culture which I wish we had here but we don't interesting are are the are the vibes of the audience differently, do they get like do you find that in New York certain people like the audiences get certain jokes and maybe uh in I think the audiences tend to be maybe more they're a little maybe quieter in London, like they're not feel um less you know, Americans are louder.

[31:53] Judy Kuhn: Yeah, Americans are vamuncus, we're a lot of people. But they're also incredibly respectful. Yeah, very what you know, that there's a they're also very discerning. You know, in br on Broadway, but it's like everybody has to give a standing ovation to every show. You don't get standing ovations in London unless they they really mean it when they stand up for you.

[32:16] Eli Tokash: Oh, and it just makes it that much more special then.

[32:18] Judy Kuhn: Yeah, exactly. It's has meaning, you know, you really can tell. And and so if you don't get one, doesn't mean the audience didn't like it. It just, you know, they're it's just a that is a different vibe, I would say.

[32:31] Eli Tokash: Sure. It's so interesting. I I saw like two productions at the West End, and the it was so interesting because the audiences when for in Broadway, when audiences are getting to their seats, we move like pretty quickly. Like we're we're like, get to your seat, let go to the get we like run everywhere. In London, it was so interesting because everyone moved extremely slow.

[32:59] Judy Kuhn: And so it's also it's a very social thing in London too. And the bar, you know, people go to the bar and they get a drink, or they'll go to the bar and they'll order a drink for the intermission.

[33:13] Eli Tokash: Oh so it's a it's becomes a social thing as well.

[33:18] Judy Kuhn: Sure. Theater goers there. You know?

[33:22] Eli Tokash: Yeah. Also, I th I I think the West End is also more there's it the West End is you know, Broadway used to be this way, you know, in before our time, Sydney and Eli. Um there used to be an Arthur Miller play or a Tennessee Williams play on Broadway every year. There used to be a Sondheim musical every year, you know, like or a Kandra and Ebb musical every year. It's so and now Broadway has become more commercial and more corporate, and it's you know, a a new play on Broadway is a big deal, and it usually comes from a regional theater, an off Broadway theater. Whereas more, I think there's more um there's more produced for the West End theaters that are you wouldn't think of as commercial productions, but there for example, when I was there, and this was one of the most some of the most exciting theater I've seen in recent years, they did um there there's a theater named for Harold Pinter. At the Pinter, they did an entire season of every single Pinter play.

[34:24] Eli Tokash: Wow.

[34:32] Judy Kuhn: No, not every sorry, every single one act Pinter. Oh, okay. Wow. Even still that's impressive. And it was a season long thing. I saw a lot of them, and they were incredible. And it was like, you know, it was the West End. It's you I can't imagine anything like that happening on Broadway.

[34:53] Eli Tokash: Yeah.

[34:54] Judy Kuhn: That's just so true. And they were full, you know. Every time I went, it was the audience was it was packed.

[35:00] Eli Tokash: Right.

[35:01] Judy Kuhn: Right. Yeah, it's uh it's definitely it it's it's definitely a different um like you said, wait, we they're they're real like theater goers, and they they they I I feel like they take it very seriously.

[35:16] Eli Tokash: Yep.

[35:17] Judy Kuhn: Yeah. But it's baked into the culture there.

[35:20] Eli Tokash: Sure.

[35:21] Judy Kuhn: Yeah. But that's like that's incredible. Like I wish would they had that here. Not even just New York, like everywhere, like in Texas. Like please get it like somewhere that like needs that stuff, you know.

[35:37] Eli Tokash: Right. There's a lot of states here that do.

[35:39] Judy Kuhn: Yeah.

[35:40] Eli Tokash: But oh well, maybe one day when we become president, right?

[35:44] Judy Kuhn: I mean that said, I think the theater scene in New York is fantastic. And I think we're in a in a golden age of playwriting. I mean, I think the voices that we're hearing in the theater right now, and not necessarily on Broadway, but uh in regional theaters and off Broadway theaters, uh I think it's incredible.

[36:03] Eli Tokash: Yeah.

[36:04] Judy Kuhn: Yeah. Speaking of voices, um, that was the perfect transition. Um, you have the voice of an angel. I mean we know that. Um so do you is there anything that you do or like j just like what do you do to like keep your voice healthy uh in shape, you know, or is like especially like now, like, you know, there's we can't be singing on stage every night, so like how do you like condition it?

[36:29] Judy Kuhn: I wish I could tell you that I've been disciplined about keeping my voice in shape, but I have not, and uh often I think to myself, You're you ain't getting any younger. You better be singing every day or at least a couple days a week. Keep your voice in shape, but I'm not fortunately, I have had excellent vocal training. And I think, you know, training is key to anything that you want to keep in shape.

[36:56] Eli Tokash: Right.

[36:56] Judy Kuhn: Um and that sort of has gotten me through. You know, I try to always go back to technique. But in terms of just keeping yourself, you know, like we said before, you gotta keep your body healthy and you gotta sleep and you gotta drink a lot of water.

[37:14] Eli Tokash: Yeah, yeah.

[37:16] Judy Kuhn: Yeah. I mean it's in it's interesting because like literally your vocal cords and your voice is a muscle, you know, like and you just like you I mean, sure you can condition it and stuff like that, but it at the end of the day, like it does come down to like technique and just like making sure you're as you get older, it just like any musc other muscle, it gets you know gets tired more easily and you know, it changes and you you have to, you know, accept that and you have to keep in shape.

[37:47] Judy Kuhn: Sometimes I forget that it's a muscle. Sometimes I'm just like, I I won't sing for a while and I'll be like, why do I sound like this? I'm working without Yeah, and it's like when you lift things, you know, like you have to use several muscles. So keeping your body healthy and your muscles in your body going will only help your voice. So it's inter like I that's why I made that connection because you were saying, you know, just keep your body in shape, you know.

[38:15] Eli Tokash: Okay, you guys have now like inspired me to like starting gay again because you know, gotta keep it in shape. Honest It's the least we can doesn't diet.

[38:31] Judy Kuhn: You inspire us, so uh, if I don't have like something that I'm learning or a some you know, a concert or show or something that I a goal, a specific goal, like I have to be ready for that. It's hard for me to maintain that.

[38:45] Eli Tokash: Do you find diet like motivate? Do you find diet affects your voice at all?

[38:49] Judy Kuhn: Um, you know, I haven't made any of that those connections. I know it does for some people, but I haven't noticed it doing for me.

[38:58] Eli Tokash: I I really want to know this. Do you still get nervous for performances?

[39:04] Judy Kuhn: You do? Really?

[39:06] Eli Tokash: Oh, absolutely. We especially for concerts. When I have to go on stage for a concert.

[39:11] Judy Kuhn: Oh, that was the same way. I'm I'm much better now than I used to be when I first started doing concerts. When I first started doing concerts, I got actually claustrophobic. Like I thought, how can I get out of this? I can't get out of this. Um, and then usually once I was on stage, I was fine. I would say, I would go, oh, I know exactly what I need to do, so I'm fine. But um, but yeah, I get very nervous, especially for concerts. For you know, for shows, I I tend to get nervous for first previews, opening nights, you know, or when there's someone that I care about who I know is coming to see the show. You know, things like that. Once I'm in a routine of a show, I don't get as I don't usually get so nervous, but it also depends on the show.

[40:03] Eli Tokash: True.

[40:04] Judy Kuhn: And what the demands are and how confident I am about what I'm doing, or you know, but uh yeah. But nerve but nerves are good though. Because nerve mean that was something you taught me. You were the first person to ever tell me that. Nerves mean first of all, means that you care. Yeah, you know, and you really want to care about your work and doing good work. They also help they're they're useful in that they they give you adrenaline and they help you focus.

[40:35] Eli Tokash: Yeah.

[40:35] Judy Kuhn: So they're they only become uh unuseful when they get in your way of doing your work, you know? But I think they that nerves are good. It's sometimes, you know, the worst performances are when you're not nervous and you're it feels either routine or or you don't care. Yeah, and then that's when you lose your concentration or you just don't do your your best work.

[41:04] Eli Tokash: Honestly, that makes me feel better. It always makes me feel better when I when I hear like someone else speak about those things. Like, yeah, yeah, I still get nervous.

[41:11] Judy Kuhn: Yeah, it makes me part of what we do. And you and the the technique is I mean, that's where technique comes in because t you need your technique to make it so that nerves don't interfere with what you need to do, keep you from being able to breathe or being able to concentrate or listen, or you know, all of those things that you need to do when you go on stage.

[41:37] Eli Tokash: Sure. I think you were one of the first people actually to ever tell me um that I remember that I actually soaked it in that that nerves were good.

[41:46] Eli Tokash: And I don't know why. I just I always every time I remember thinking that before the Tony Award performance. I remember thinking I was going in between something Michael told me, something Emily told me, and something you told me. You you you said you said nerves are good, it means you care. I think Emily said something like literally right before I went backstage. She said, um turn nerves and excitement are the same thing. It's just how you perceive them. Um and then, you know, Michael was with me backstage, so he was a kind of putting up with my energy anyway. Um it really stuck with me when when when he would you were performing on live television. How could you not be nervous? Only a fool would not be nervous.

[42:34] Judy Kuhn: Yes. You know. And I think that and sometimes it can feel like the same thing. And I think that's what when I said it made me feel claustrophobic. I think that was fear. And when I went on stage, I didn't have the fear anymore because I knew that I I knew what I was doing. I was rehearsed. Yeah. I have technique, I have something to say. Wow. You know, all of those things. And then I may still feel the nerves, but the fear is gone.

[43:03] Eli Tokash: The fear's gone, huh? We're just gonna take a quick break to hear from our sponsors. We'll be right back with that too. We have to know. This is literally everyone's favorite question to hear about and ask. Um, you know, you have you've had a a special career. Um, you've had one of the biggest and like just most experience that of who we've had on the podcast. Um, so we want to know what was the most memorable stage mishap in your career.

[43:33] Judy Kuhn: I I mean, I'm sure you have countless, so I'm sure it's gonna be hard to pick. So many. And I won't include the one where I where Sydney almost fell through this cage because that would be maybe the worst almost mishap. Fortunately, it didn't turn into the mishap it could have been. True. That was terrifying. It was a bit, yeah. Um, so I um I would say uh oh god, there have been so many. Um, I when I was doing Sunset Boulevard in Los Angeles, I was off stage. Um, I was having a conversation actually with my dear departed beloved father, who I never had con you know, fights with, and he um said something I don't know, it was annoying to me, and I got a little upset, and I said, Dan, I'm I I'm I'm gonna have to go on stage in a minute, I'm gonna have to call you back. So I said goodbye, and I hung up the phone, and that was when we were had phones that were attached to the wall, you know.

[44:53] Judy Kuhn: Um and uh I went into the wings to await my next entrance, but in my brain, I was going over the conversation I had, and you know how you do that, and you think, you know, I should have said this, or I'm gonna say that, and all of a sudden it was got very quiet on stage, and I was looking around. I was like, oh my god, what happened? What happened out there? And suddenly I realized I was supposed to be out there. Oh I just I went on stage, and because that part of the show was kind of through composed, you know, with speaking and singing, I had to figure out where in the scene we were. No, I remember Alan Campbell, who played Joe Gillis, looked at me like, nice of you to join us.

[45:49] Judy Kuhn: Oh my gosh. And that maybe wasn't actually the worst, the craziest mishap, but it was one that came into my head. It was one that I I was responsible for.

[46:02] Eli Tokash: Was your mic on? It's one thing to be, you know, in your dressing room and realize, oh my god, I'm off. I'm I should be on stage. But I was actually ready for my chance to get ready.

[46:12] Judy Kuhn: Oh my gosh. So wait, was your were you was your mic on when you were on the phone? Or that was already done? No, no, no, no. I I was heard my, you know, I was like heard the cue to go to the wind ready for my entrance. I was there in plenty of time. I was so distracted by the thoughts in my head that I stopped listening to what was happening on stage.

[46:36] Eli Tokash: Have you ever have you ever sung a song so much that it becomes autopilot? And so while you're singing it, you just you think about I don't know, you think about what groceries you need to pick up that night. And then once you come out of that, you you are like, What? Where where am I in the song? Have you ever had that happen?

[46:59] Judy Kuhn: Yes, well, that happens, I think, all the time. And when you do a long run and there's muscle memory involved, that you start going, and that's to me the most terrifying thing that can happen on stage. When you your brain goes away and you think you're thinking of something else while you're still doing your show, and then you come back and you go, oh my god, like did I say all my lines? Did I sing all my lyrics?

[47:24] Eli Tokash: Yeah. Did anybody tell that I went away for a moment there? Did how yeah, how long did I go away for? Was it for happens, or was it for a full minute?

[47:34] Judy Kuhn: I so true. So true. Yeah. But I think that happens to everyone. I I I think maybe there are people out there who are anyone who ever happened to me. Anyone who doesn't have that happen to them, what is your secret? Like do I want to know because it's that's I mean, it it's a given, especially with long runs.

[48:00] Judy Kuhn: But you know what happens though when that when that does happen, your your nerves, you know, your adrenaline and your nerves kick back in, and then you go back to your phone. So listening and be you know, paying attention.

[48:12] Eli Tokash: So true.

[48:14] Eli Tokash: So Judy, you have uh as we've established, you've been literally nominated for so many awards. You've won so many awards. Um you've won prestigious awards. Um I want to know if that it does that ever get like old for you. Does does getting nominated for stuff, you know, because it it's just you get nominated for so many things. I'm just wondering if you know if that ever gets old.

[48:49] Judy Kuhn: I find the whole award thing very complicated. Ah, you know. Listen, it's very exciting and very flattering when your work is given that kind of recognition. So it's that would be what's the word? It w it wouldn't be completely honest if I didn't say I don't care about it, because of course I care, because everybody does care. And but but at the same time, then the then there's the complicated thing of like wanting to win an award, you know.

[49:23] Judy Kuhn: Because I I also feel like art should not be a competition. And who can that one performance or piece of writing deserves an award more than another one, you know? And I so that to me is very complicated. And I don't want to put too much value on it, but of course it's a great honor, and it's exciting when you get that kind of recognition. Does that make sense?

[49:51] Eli Tokash: Yeah, very well done. Win or lose or whatever, you just gotta move on because that's not what we got into this game for.

[50:03] Judy Kuhn: Exactly. Exactly. And if it is what you got into the game for, uh maybe you need to rethink your value.

[50:12] Eli Tokash: Exactly. Exactly. Um but it totally makes sense. Like the fact that like you're getting that recognition, so you know like you feel good, you know, you're you're obviously doing something right and you're making other people like feel a type way and getting the story across. But that like, but it makes sense that you're like, you know, like I don't want to win it for me or anything like that, you know, because that that's not what I'm here for. I'm here for everyone else.

[50:36] Judy Kuhn: And there's so much, especially these days. I mean, it's changed so much than when I was first starting out in this business, what award season is and what all stuff is like, has changed so much and it's gotten to be s kind of out of hand, I think. And I mean, what what we that what we went through those six weeks after we opened Fun Home on Broadway until the finally the night of the Tonies came was just it was a circus.

[51:04] Judy Kuhn: I mean it was just crazy. And I remember when you know my first Tony nomination was thrilling. We got invited to a brunch at Sardi's where we were given our certificates and the press was invited to take pictures of us and we sat down, we had a nice lunch or brunch, and then they said see you on Tony night. And that was it.

[51:26] Judy Kuhn: That's it. It was great. It was crazy. There were other there were other award things, you know, the Outer Critics Circle Award. There were other things, but there were just little lunches and you showed up and you you know, if you were nominated or presenting or whatever, if someone invited you and you showed up and you had lunch and you it was nice you saw other people in this wonderful community that we're a part of. But it wasn't all this hoo-haw and all the parties and all the so much press, and it's partly because of the internet and all the blogs and the websites and I don't know what, but you know, it's just a whole different whole different thing.

[52:04] Eli Tokash: It is it is a circus.

[52:07] Judy Kuhn: Yeah. And the hair makeup and the and I remember when we finally got to Tony Night, that fun home season, it was like, oh my god, finally the tomorrow this is all gonna be over and we can just go back to doing our beautiful show.

[52:22] Eli Tokash: Yeah, everyone took a giant collective deep breath.

[52:26] Judy Kuhn: Yes. Oh, it's over.

[52:30] Eli Tokash: It it was fun though. I gotta say, it was it was it was like a roller coaster, but a fun roller coaster.

[52:38] Judy Kuhn: Yes. Yes, it was a roller coaster.

[52:41] Eli Tokash: You've given such wonderful advice during this podcast. And um, as I've as I've already said as I've already said, you I mean, you're one of the the people in my life who's consistently given the most helpful, wonderful, and loving advice. Um what advice would you give to someone who's either starting out in the business or those who are in the business but are like hard on themselves or get down on themselves?

[53:09] Judy Kuhn: Oh, well, oh, get down on themselves. You know, I think keep keep studying, keep learning. Keep, you know, I think you have to look for you know, that's really hard question to answer because I think everybody is down on themselves for different gets down on themselves for different reasons. True, you know, and you have to understand what's at the heart of the that and who do you look to to who do you look to for encouragement and guidance and you know what are your I I think you have to be clear about what your goals and expectations are.

[53:50] Judy Kuhn: Sometimes people set their expectations too high. Um sometimes people you know, I think if you do things for the the right reasons and you and you put your attention on the right things, like not I hope I get an award nomination, but what story am I telling and what part what part do I play in the fabric of this show? And so I can do my job the best that I can do it. And who in this room or that can I look toward for guidance and for help when I'm not sure, when I'm uncertain, whether it's a director or a scene partner or you know what I mean?

[54:33] Eli Tokash: Yeah.

[54:33] Judy Kuhn: Because I think what what can get you down are feeling either, as I said, the wrong expectations or hopes, which often lead to disappointment, or not knowing where you're, you know what can hold you up in a situation, you know.

[54:53] Eli Tokash: Right.

[54:53] Judy Kuhn: And to learn that, you know, there are gonna be times when things are challenging and a struggle, and you just have to find where what are your resources to help you through those times.

[55:07] Eli Tokash: Yeah. Absolutely. I can listen to you all day.

[55:15] Judy Kuhn: Yeah.

[55:13] Eli Tokash: Seriously. We can't thank you enough for doing this. Um thank you for coming on.

[55:20] Judy Kuhn: Oh, you're so kind to have me. And it's it's just such a pleasure to chat with you, I have to say.

[55:26] Judy Kuhn: Both of you. Same, it's been a pleasure meeting you, and I'm sure it's been awesome to hear you guys like rekindle all the look back on the moments that you guys shared and everything like that.

[55:36] Judy Kuhn: It's been awesome.

[55:37] Eli Tokash: I know my little girl all grown up.

[55:39] Judy Kuhn: Oh let's go again sometime.

[55:42] Eli Tokash: I know.

[55:43] Judy Kuhn: Let's.

[55:44] Eli Tokash: Let's I know.

[55:45] Judy Kuhn: I would love that.

[55:47] Eli Tokash: I would too.

[55:48] Judy Kuhn: What have you two done a show together? Is that how you know each other?

[55:50] Eli Tokash: So I did it with her brother.

[55:53] Judy Kuhn: You did a show with my brother.

[55:55] Eli Tokash: Ah what did you do?

[55:57] Judy Kuhn: Christmas story.

[55:58] Eli Tokash: I did a Christmas story.

[55:59] Judy Kuhn: Ah, okay.

[56:00] Eli Tokash: All right. Yeah.

[56:01] Judy Kuhn: And we also know each other.

[56:02] Eli Tokash: Yeah, and then school.

[56:03] Judy Kuhn: Oh.

[56:04] Eli Tokash: Uh right. And then we ended up going to school together and then we were both on Broadway at the same time. So that also, like kids always hang out, I guess.

[56:13] Judy Kuhn: Um so yeah, that helped, and we just kept like growing ever since I did a show with her brother our relationship.

[56:22] Eli Tokash: What do you guys do when you're feeling down and discouraged?

[56:27] Judy Kuhn: Oh, you know what? I I'm a I'm like a spiritual person by nature, and I I I think I actually keep two on my phone at all times. I teach I keep two quotes on my um on my home screen.

[56:45] Judy Kuhn: Um one of them is well, first of all, the motto that I live by is everything happens for a reason. So if something hap doesn't happen that I want to happen, I just I'm like, it's fine, it's fine. It everything happens for a reason. I'm not I'm not supposed to it's not supposed to go that way, that's fine.

[57:02] Eli Tokash: Right.

[57:03] Judy Kuhn: But um I the two quotes that I have that that I actually literally put on my phone after I didn't get an ad an an audition and I started getting down on myself. Um and it kind of surprised me because I don't normally do that.

[57:17] Eli Tokash: Right.

[57:17] Judy Kuhn: I put these two quotes on my phone. I put sometimes things don't work out, not because you don't deserve it, but because you deserve so much more. And number two is just I just like to look at it. It's I accept all blessings, opportunities, goodness, love, prosperity, and light into my life. Um and I just I don't know, I keep I keep those in mind. I I I just I trust in the process. I I trust in myself. I trust in uh I don't know, whatever happens. I I I you know, f I do what I can. I always put my best foot forward. Um, but I trust is a is a big thing.

[57:53] Eli Tokash: Yeah, because in our business particularly, there's so much you can't you have no control over.

[57:58] Judy Kuhn: Exactly.

[57:59] Eli Tokash: Well, care of are the things you do have control over.

[58:02] Judy Kuhn: Exactly.

[58:03] Eli Tokash: Right. I and that's my big thing too, because like I get into my head all the time, especially ever since my voice changed, you know, and like I feel like the biggest thing for me is that like I just stop thinking, you know, like clear your head, just like find those sources that meditate you and your brain and all of those things and get back in touch with why you are doing what you're doing, why you love it, and just enjoy it. Cause like this is fun. Like our job is literally to have fun. And like if you're not, then you have to like re-evaluate yourself, you know.

[58:41] Judy Kuhn: So you're both very wise young people.

[58:45] Eli Tokash: Oh, well, I learned it from you.

[58:48] Judy Kuhn: There you go.

[58:50] Eli Tokash: Oh, you're so sweet. I I have like in my brain, I must have a file cabinet, a filing cabinet of all of the pieces of information or advice you've ever like given me.

[59:01] Judy Kuhn: I can't believe I did that much.

[59:03] Eli Tokash: You did though.

[59:05] Judy Kuhn: Oh my gosh, you did. I I uh a lot.

[59:10] Eli Tokash: I I mean you you you just give me so much.

[59:14] Judy Kuhn: I'm so happy to hear that. It just makes me really happy to hear that.

[59:18] Eli Tokash: Yeah. I'm re I'm really grateful for everything you've taught me. Love you, Judy.

[59:24] Judy Kuhn: Love you too.

[59:26] Eli Tokash: Take a bow, Judy Kuhn.

[59:28] Judy Kuhn: Hey.

[59:30] Eli Tokash: Oh wow. She is so like you said in the beginning, she is just a book of knowledge. She has so much incredible advice. And um just she's done so much in her career, and uh literally learning from her, not only from like I've learned new stuff from this interview, but like from the years that I've worked with her. I the the the time that I spent with her has been truly like invaluable and she is such a queen.

[1:00:01] Judy Kuhn: And um it's so cool she touched on the West End because we hadn't talked about that before in the podcast.

[1:00:07] Eli Tokash: Yeah. Uh she was she was great. I mean, just the fact that like she's a Disney princess. Like we've talked about like Disney people in the parks and stuff, and now we like actually interviewed a Disney princess, the voice of it. Like I was like, wow, this is all coming full circle. Um and then yeah, just like the things that she said about just nerves and it's just another way of excitement. Um I thought that was like incredible and like just a positive outlook on a negative quote uh quote unquote negative thing that uh is looked at, I guess, because you look at nerves as like a negative, I guess. Or I do at least. Um so just like having that point of view would kinda like calm me down, and I was like, wow, I I could really use that. Um and there was just like so many great things that she said that I I'm you know, I'm gonna carry with me. So hopefully you guys learned some stuff about that too.

[1:01:02] Judy Kuhn: Uh yeah.

[1:01:04] Eli Tokash: So during the interview, uh she had this incredible on stage mishap. Um that she was literally so prepared and just so ready to go on. Um, and unfortunately, she was just in a zone uh in a daze. Um, so she mentioned that she was waiting in the wings, so we figured that that could be our word of the day because maybe not everybody knows what the wings are. So, Sydney, do you want to take it away and explain what wings are?

[1:01:36] Sydney Lucas: It's so funny because the only Broadway show I've ever been in was literally circle in the square, which doesn't actually have any wings. It has like VOMs, which are different because the backstage is legitimately underneath the audience.

[1:01:52] Eli Tokash: Um at least.

[1:01:53] Sydney Lucas: So wait, what's a bomb then? What's a VOM?

[1:01:54] Eli Tokash: And then I'll explain the wings.

[1:01:56] Sydney Lucas: So a VOM, I I don't I don't even know if it's specific to uh uh an in-the-round theater. If you don't know what an an a theater in the round means, it literally means a a theater where the audience is circling the stage. So when the actors go on to the stage, there's audience all around them. It's not a proscenium theater where the audience is just in front of them. So the fourth wall is technically all around the audience, all around the stage. Um and the VOMs were uh it's funny because technically there isn't an upstage or downstage in a circle and square in a in a in the round theater. But I there we we I'm pretty sure we labeled them the upstage and the downstage VOMs. And the VOMs were the basic the places that that the actors exited when we went off stage, or also we went on when we were going on stage.

Um and these VOMs were located literally underneath the audience. So we would kind of have to go through and underneath the audience to go backstage. So it's it's funny because whenever we were waiting backstage, we would always have to be careful because audience was literally right above us.

[1:03:11] Eli Tokash: So yeah, those are VOMs.

[1:03:13] Sydney Lucas: Yeah. So interestingly enough, VOMs are practically on stage wings.

[1:03:18] Eli Tokash: Yeah.

[1:03:19] Sydney Lucas: So um the wings are literally the second that the audience can't see you anymore. Um you're practically in the wings because you're off stage and so there's like this little um usually there's like three wings, but there could be more. That's like the minimum, I guess three wings, um on each side of the stage and it's and it helps when like you're in rehearsal or not because you're like, oh um if I go upstage then I go to wing one and if I'm entering mid stage I'm in wing two and if I'm in wing three then it's uh oh shoot, I twist twisted that. Um if you are going in the downstage are if you're entering downstage you're in wing one. If you're mid uh mid stage uh I guess you call it um center stage that's it.

Yeah you're in wing two and then wing three you're in upstage. Uh so it's just like it helps with traffic and stuff like that and it's it's also very key for like online. They're almost like pathways onto the stage. They're separated by normally are they separated by like curtains normally?

[1:04:31] Eli Tokash: Yes.

[1:04:31] Sydney Lucas: Well they're either separated by like curtains or like the board. Like um I don't know like what they're called but like it's just like a board I guess of like a set wall, I guess you could call it.

[1:04:45] Eli Tokash: Yeah.

[1:04:45] Sydney Lucas: Um so so when you think of wings, you don't think when you when an actor's going off stage, it isn't just this giant open pathway for them. They have it separated so they can pretty much go off uh three different ways, I guess.

[1:05:00] Eli Tokash: Right.

[1:05:01] Sydney Lucas: And they're not wings that like were flying off stage or anything like that either. Um just just to make that reference clear.

[1:05:08] Eli Tokash: I know, right? That'd be so cool.

[1:05:10] Sydney Lucas: Um, but no, no, none of us are birds in the theater. Um so yeah, um, so we have a couple Broadway, I guess, has a few things that we can look forward to. Um, so we're super excited about that.

[1:05:25] Eli Tokash: So not only do you have uh take a bow Thursdays this week or whenever day you listen to it, uh you also have uh tonight, the day that we are recording this intro and outro, uh, and it's actually Wednesday, December 9th, is the Grinch Live starring Matthew Morrison and Boo Boo Stewart and a few other big names that uh that's gonna be in it.

[1:05:49] Sydney Lucas: So you can look forward to that.

[1:05:52] Eli Tokash: On Friday, the prom comes out on Netflix.

[1:05:56] Sydney Lucas: Yes, the live version of the prom is going to be on Netflix, and it has a star-studded cast, it has Meryl Streep, it has James Corden, it has like everyone you can think of.

[1:06:06] Eli Tokash: Um and then tonight on on Thursday, uh December 10th, there's this one night on Broadway thing that's being hosted by Tina Fey, and this one night on Broadway is a bunch of uh shows that were on Broadway before the pandemic hit are actually going to be performing one number.

[1:06:25] Sydney Lucas: No way.

[1:06:26] Eli Tokash: Uh yes, so this is so exciting because like this is gonna give people an opportunity to perform again after not performing since like March or April. Um, and it it uh unfortunately not all the shows could do it at the Thanksgiving Day Parade. Um, so literally pretty much all the shows are gonna do it on uh tomorrow, which is technically tonight when you're listening to it, uh, December 10th. So keep an eye out for all of those fun things that will just bring Broadway to our house, uh um more things from Broadway into our house. So yay.

[1:07:00] Sydney Lucas: Oh, I love that.

[1:07:02] Eli Tokash: Yeah. Um so yeah, I mean, do you have anything else do you want to add?

[1:07:07] Sydney Lucas: Do I have anything I want to add? Um here's what I will say. Uh take Take A Bow, first of all, has some really exciting episodes coming up. Uh so stay tuned for that. We also have some exciting news coming up. So also stay tuned for that. That's that's all I'm gonna say about that.

[1:07:27] Eli Tokash: Yeah, I mean, I guess for the holiday seasons, you know, like people are just extra willing, and we're very thankful for their time because we have some great guests coming up, and then we also have a few like promotional stuff coming up. So we're very excited and keep an eye out on that, and we'll keep you all updated. So, yay.

[1:07:48] Sydney Lucas: Okay, everyone. Thank you so much, and thank you, Judy Kuhn for coming on. I love you endlessly.

[1:07:55] Eli Tokash: Um, I hope you all like the episode. Okay, everyone. Thank you so much for tuning in, and thank you so much, Judy, for coming on. I love you endlessly. Um, and we hope you liked the episode. See you next week.

[1:08:14] Sydney Lucas: Sick beat him, alright?

[1:08:16] Eli Tokash: For our curtain call, we wanted to give a few special thank yous to Nikki Torsha and Corm McCollin on for our amazing music, Giselle Bustos for designing our logo, and Tessie Tokash and Sydney Lucas for editing our episodes. Feel free to subscribe and leave a review on whatever platform you are currently listening to us from. This podcast wouldn't be possible without the help of Dory Berenstein, Alan Seales, Brittany Bigelow, and Katie Rosen at the Broadway Podcast Network, as well as our top patrons Henry Friedman, Brian Thompson, PCC, and Patrick McNamara. Speaking of, if you enjoyed this week's episode of Take A Bow, go check us out on Patreon at patreon.com slash TAB and become a patron today.

Through our Patreon, you will form a relationship with us and get an inside look on what goes into this podcast. To learn more about this podcast, visit bpn.fm forward slash take a bow and follow us on Instagram at Take A Bow Podcast, where you can contact us with any feedback, suggestions, or questions, and keep up with all things take a bow. See you next week. Bye everyone.