This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:08] Grace Aki: Tell me a story. And one time, there's more to the story. The kind of story we need right now.

[0:38] Grace Aki: Hey guys, good day. I hope you're having a really lovely Sunday. I am, you know, finally getting to enjoy the city again. Um, I'm back in New York and getting to enjoy all of the people and things, and I just want to remind you, because I'm reminding myself, that you gotta slow down sometimes. I think, you know, I'm so excited, and so is everybody else to like reopen things and be conscientious because we've all worked so hard to you know take care of ourselves in this time, but at the same time, like I'm getting a little burnt out. I don't know about you. Um so yeah, I'm just I'm so happy. Thanks for listening to Tell Me on a Sunday. And I want to talk a little bit about our guests, but before we get into it, I wanna tell you that my friend Brendan has his latest season of Wait in the Wings.

It's on YouTube. Season three is out. I got to watch like a special screening of it. Basically, what happens is he gets to be a dramaturg, a documentary maker on all of your favorite musicals, and he started season three out with Hades Town, and it is one of the best things I've ever seen. Um, if you love movie musicals, or if you just love musicals and you love documentaries that are kind of like funny, but also like give you great insight into your favorite shows, you need to subscribe to Wait in the Wings. I just I want you to do that. Brendan is amazing. Um, I'm so proud of him. And we had a great little convo about the upcoming season, but he was so cryptic, and I was like, Well, you know what?

I'm just gonna have to subscribe. I'm just gonna have to do that. So I did. Anyways, um, please check it out if you're into that, and let me know what you think. Let him know what you think. Let him know that you watched it. Hi guys, it's been a minute since we got to talk. I hope you're having a lovely week. Uh, this happens to be my birthday week, which I would not normally uh, you know, there are all these people in the world that celebrate their birthday like aggressively, and I'm not sure that I'm one of those people, but the only reason that I even bring it up is because like last year my birthday was really uh traumatic. Um, it wasn't it wasn't that good. Um, I mean, cut to a scene where I am rescuing my cat from my old apartment and trying to get to my friend's apartment that I am inhabiting in Brooklyn, um, in an Uber, and I threw up on the side of the East Village while we were in the Uber on the way with my cat just because I was so stressed um about the whole situation.

And this birthday was not that. This birthday was really lovely and beautiful, and I got to celebrate it with a lot of people that I care about and my family and um gosh, got to eat the best food of my life. If you go to my Instagram, you can watch some of these reels that I've been posting about food. I don't feel worthy of the food that I was ingesting, is the point. Uh, but I took a couple of weeks off from the show, even though I was very much planning on having it crank out every single week. Um, there was a bit of a tech scare. Someone who we think we know who it was, um, hacked a lot of my devices, my family's devices, um, and was sharing false narratives, I guess, about any one of my family members and me.

And it was really scary and embarrassing and traumatic. And I was like, you know what? I need to like not put out my podcast right now because I'm scared and I just I'm tired of being scared all the time. Um, if you got to listen to her story, you know that it's a journey, and um I appreciate all the people that have listened to that. Today is no different. Today is a wonderful story time session with a friend of mine who I've known for quite a few years in New York. Um, their name is Javier de Bruin. If you don't know their name now, you're gonna know their name in the future because they are an incredible multi-hyphenate playwright, uh performer, writer, creator, impact producer. Javi is queer, trans, Latinx, also all around badass person.

That's kind of how I would describe them. Uh, you've probably seen their work in Disclosure as far as like, you know, impact producing and creating these incredible documentaries, um, Trans and Trump Plan, Bedlam, Philly DA. Uh, they're writing Luciernagus, which uh they're gonna talk about on the show, which I'm very excited about. MCC Theater, um, as a co-writer for This Is Where We Go. Their accolades know no bounds. I'm really honored and excited to introduce to you, if you don't know them already, Javi Debruin. Here is my conversation with Javi.

[5:27] Grace Aki: And now we're doing it. Hey.

[5:31] Javi Debruin: Oh God. Javi, the last time I physically saw you was uh at the wing. Do you realize that?

[5:39] Grace Aki: I forgot about the wing. I forget about it. And then I was going through a purse of mine the other day. And there was a like wing bucks. Um and then I was like, I guess I didn't use these. Should I cash them in? Should I be like, hey guys, are you able to correct all of your wrongs also? Can I have a try? Can I have a try?

[6:01] Javi Debruin: Well, make up for everything, but you could give someone a try.

[6:04] Grace Aki: Well, it will literally make up for nothing. Um do you follow Flu the Coup?

[6:09] Javi Debruin: I do, yeah, I do. And I also feel like my experience at the wing was like the best parts of it were like the friendships I made with folks who worked there.

[6:20] Grace Aki: Yeah, with the people that worked there.

[6:22] Javi Debruin: Yeah, because like they're the like folks on the staff there were the most awesome people.

[6:27] Grace Aki: Yeah. Most awesome. I mean I met some cool other like I met some cool wingers as well. But like, yeah, the like the like space, the like the folks in the space working in the space were the best.

[6:40] Javi Debruin: Yeah, it's funny because I met so many of those people through members that I had known. And so it's funny because like all those people kind of agreed that it was like the end of it. If anybody's listening and doesn't know what the wing is, absolutely Google it. Google the shit out of it. Google the wing. You will crack up at these articles. I'm sure there's one like by the cut about it. It was basically like a very shishy fru-frou ha ha um country club for people, um, predominantly like femme-based, and like it was it was cool for what we wanted it to be, but all of the people that like ended up going, uh half of the people I would say, like should have had another space to do what they wanted to do, and then the other half were like a bunch of predominant like white women having a place to like do their makeup.

[7:34] Javi Debruin: Yeah, I don't know how else to describe it was millennial pink and shiny and had pretty couches, and I feel like that's a hundred percent.

[7:45] Grace Aki: Which I'm I guess I went the first time I went to the wing, I was this someone's guest um who I was working with, and I was like, Can I be here? Um, and I like it. That was like right at the outset of me coming out as non-binary, and so it's like, do I have space here? But I was like, but it's really pretty. There's a there's like a sunken couch, and I can see Brooklyn Bridge. Like, this is nice for like a co-working space.

[8:14] Javi Debruin: Uh-huh.

[8:15] Grace Aki: Uh-huh. And then it's like uh if you had I was like, well, if I have to pay for a co-working space, like I might as well have a like pink velvet couch to sit on.

[8:24] Javi Debruin: Yes.

[8:25] Grace Aki: And also there's so many times where you're in, especially New York City, where you're like, I just like need a place to pee. And um I need it to be safe. And then what we learned, unfortunately, what we learned about the wing is that it was not safe. Um, the people that they had also started like ex I don't know. It was just um, it's unfortunate. Also, go follow uh flew the coup.

[8:49] Javi Debruin: Yeah.

[8:49] Grace Aki: Because it's uh it's also interesting. But um, I love I also love watching the inner workings of like what happens when a place like that gets called out.

[8:58] Javi Debruin: Yeah, I don't know if it's anything. I don't know. I mean it's peak white feminism, right?

[9:03] Grace Aki: Yeah. And it uh it was interesting for me because I also went to a historically women's college.

[9:11] Javi Debruin: Where did you go?

[9:13] Grace Aki: I went to Smith.

[9:14] Javi Debruin: Okay.

[9:15] Grace Aki: Um so I was like, oh yeah, all of these conversations seem familiar, except that at Smith, it's like a lot more, I don't know, that you like I like that's I feel like like Smith is like low-key where I got my lack of total lack of chill.

[9:32] Javi Debruin: Um I mean I've always had it, but like What is your uh do you mind me asking what is your sign astrologically?

[9:40] Grace Aki: I don't normally ask that.

[9:43] Javi Debruin: Well I actually do want to know in this moment.

[9:46] Grace Aki: Yes, well, oh well. I have an interesting, I've got a doozy. So first off, I have a Leo Celium.

[9:53] Javi Debruin: Okay, that's where I was like, I was like, we're I think we're both chaotic Leos. I've talked about this on another podcast called Untitled Cinema Gals. Shout out to them because they're great. Um but we all were chaotic Leo's. We just kind of like sat there and we were like, wait, wait. I love it. It seems like that energy. Okay, keep going, keep going.

[10:11] Grace Aki: Big big Leo energy. I have a Leo Sun, and then all my um, not my rising room moon, but all my other personal planets are in Leo.

[10:19] Javi Debruin: Wow.

[10:25] Grace Aki: A lot of Leo. So strong. A lot of Leo, and then my moon is in Capricorn, so that doesn't help with the no chill.

[10:34] Javi Debruin: No how did your parents do this?

[10:38] Grace Aki: It's like big boss energy. But then my uh here's here's the thing that I feel like right like soothes it, like simmers it all at all. My uh rising sign is in Pisces.

[10:50] Javi Debruin: Okay.

[10:51] Grace Aki: So there's like some water in there to just be like a creek, not a river.

[10:57] Javi Debruin: A creek just uh a creek runs through it.

[11:02] Grace Aki: Oh god, that's funny. Well, that that explains a lot. Um for people that don't know.

[11:07] Javi Debruin: Oh god, I don't, you know, I need to, you know what it is? Unfortunately, I've got to go into a very chaotic space.

[11:13] Grace Aki: Yeah.

[11:16] Javi Debruin: Also, if you it's handy and it's also scary and they prey upon you. Guys, I didn't know. I really didn't know. I uh like I have it because it's a quick easy, I feel like it's a quick easy reference point for me. If I'm like, wait, where is my Jupiter again? Um but uh I don't I hate the like messages that they give you, the day-to-day messages where it's like they're they're just so dramatic and they're so not helpful and they're so full of like shame and blame and like doom and gloom, and I'm just here for it, co-star.

[11:52] Grace Aki: No, it feels like bullying.

[11:54] Javi Debruin: Yeah, they do track you what you uh watch and what you buy. That's that's part that's why they're one of the apps that actually tracks a lot of your day-to-day. So if they see that you're not getting a lot of text messages, or if you're not like if you're putting out a lot and then not getting a lot back, they prey on your vulnerability. But I yeah, because I read this article and I was like, hold it up, and that's why a lot of people have turned away, which I didn't realize. Um, but no, I've got like well, I'll just delete that. I have a uh like computer printout paper from years ago with my like legit birth chart. All their stuff based on like your like time and date. Like I'm I'm a sun in Leo, I'm a moon in Aquarius, and then ascendant in cancer.

[12:40] Grace Aki: But my Mercury's in Leo, Venus is Virgo, like I kind of like get to mix all of them, whatever.

[12:46] Javi Debruin: Yeah.

[12:47] Grace Aki: Yeah, I don't know. I feel like that's in a way weirdly similar because Aquarius moons and Capricorn moons, like we're both very like, uh, we don't want, we're private with our emotions, right? We're like, but the Leo is like, hey, hi. And so I always say that I'm like an extroverted introvert.

[13:08] Javi Debruin: Yeah, like I could do this, I could do this all day probably.

[13:13] Grace Aki: And then like if you and I, which will segue into how we have met, um, won our parties once every two months.

[13:21] Javi Debruin: One our parties, yes.

[13:23] Grace Aki: Uh, thanks to Kara Zalaya, a fan of the pod and also frequent guest, because um, because she's dope.

[13:30] Javi Debruin: She's dope, and she knows some shit.

[13:33] Grace Aki: We know so much, but like you guys met when you were working together. Can I say where?

[13:37] Javi Debruin: Yeah, yeah.

[13:38] Grace Aki: Okay, roundabout. You've you all have heard of it. The Roundabout Theatre Co.

[13:43] Javi Debruin: Um, and you were there for a while, I feel like.

[13:47] Grace Aki: Most of the time I've known you.

[13:49] Javi Debruin: Um, okay. I thought you were there for like literally eight years.

[13:55] Grace Aki: Um, god, thank god. I just have that world weary, like I think when you make because we were working doing, uh, like fundraising cold calls, yeah, um, and selling subscriptions, and like I feel like when you have to do that kind of thing, it's like you've been there for eight years after eight months, you're just like, oh yeah, having to talk to so many people, and like similarly to you, I think of myself as an ambivert.

[14:22] Javi Debruin: Like I'm definitely extroverted, but I really do need like recharge time.

[14:28] Grace Aki: Yes.

[14:28] Javi Debruin: Um, and I learned through that job that I have like mild to moderate phone anxiety, and so having to like talk to that many people a day, yeah, you know, and even like who are who you know are just gonna be annoyed.

[14:44] Grace Aki: Like no one likes to get a solicitation call.

[14:46] Javi Debruin: No one likes that.

[14:48] Grace Aki: Hey, but I don't know, they work.

[14:53] Javi Debruin: You're like, I love it.

[14:55] Grace Aki: No, no, it's like you go, Hey, I know that you could be working, you could be taking time off. You could have just had a death in the family. How would you like to spend hundreds of dollars on theater?

[15:09] Javi Debruin: For real.

[15:10] Grace Aki: And it's like it's good theater. I think that they're doing a lot of great stuff. I like how they've started to actually pivot. You know what I mean? Like, I think they've talked about it for a long time, but now they're I feel like, oh, I'm like, you're putting your money where your mouth is.

[15:23] Javi Debruin: Um, so we met at a one R, which is where Kara Zelai and Mackie Sailor, yeah. I'm saying their names in real life.

[15:34] Grace Aki: Um, they would have these like really great parties, and that's where I would meet such wonderful people like you.

[15:39] Javi Debruin: And um, we were all with different, I'm just now realizing this.

[15:44] Grace Aki: Like, we were all with different people.

[15:45] Javi Debruin: We were, we are all of our partners were different.

[15:49] Grace Aki: We were all with our like, uh, what you would is like first pancakes are always fucked up. Not that they were our first partners, but like we were all with them, but we but we don't speak of them fondly, and we certainly crop them out of photos, yeah.

[15:54] Javi Debruin: We were all with our crop out partners, a quick snip.

[16:09] Grace Aki: Yeah, um, but we we all have kind of just been like cheerleaders for each other in life, and I'm uh whenever Kara has praised the hell out of you. I hope you know that you are so beloved by your community.

[16:24] Javi Debruin: Um, anytime, like literally like she would just like message me, she'd be like, Did you say uh how does uh doing this documentary? And I'd be like, no, what? That's great.

[16:33] Grace Aki: So I want to get into that, but I also want you to tell me the story of because I'm I'm very curious. I've never asked these questions.

[16:40] Javi Debruin: Um, like when did you start writing? Like, when did you start storytelling? When did you um, when were you like I like theater as an art form?

[16:50] Grace Aki: I like because we did like a what was it? A scripted like Shakespearean podcast.

[16:57] Javi Debruin: We were gonna do that.

[16:58] Grace Aki: All right, lend me your ears.

[17:00] Javi Debruin: I forgot about Michael Play 2017.

[17:05] Grace Aki: I totally forgot about that.

[17:06] Javi Debruin: Was fun though, yes, yeah.

[17:09] Grace Aki: It was fun, but I realized, and then you were thinking about it. You're like, oh, I'm a playwright, and I was like, what? I had no idea, which was so cool, but I want to know more about it, so if you can lend me your ear.

[17:21] Javi Debruin: Oh such a good title of power. Please tell me, like, uh tell me the journey, the story of you getting into all of that.

[17:30] Javi Debruin: Yeah, I feel like the journey begins with a very uh emotional soft anxiety ridden baby hobby. Oh writing in my journals. I've actually kept a journal since I was 11.

[17:50] Javi Debruin: Um, wow. And yeah, I've had journals that whole time. And that was that's where I first started writing journals. And they, you know, their early years, they were real bad. Not that I was writing for anyone.

[18:08] Grace Aki: Yeah.

[18:09] Javi Debruin: But I kind of was, I feel like I feel like when I first started writing in my journals, I was like, you know, there's all these like I really liked the like Harriet the Spy and like all I feel like there were a lot of like movies and shows at some point about kids and their adventures and it would always center around their diary as like the narrator.

[18:29] Grace Aki: So I would be there with my little gel pen, you know, imagining in my head the narrator reading out like the things that I was saying and like.

[18:29] Javi Debruin: You were the main character.

[18:43] Grace Aki: Exactly. And all my woes.

[18:45] Javi Debruin: So it's like yeah, I think that's those are like my writing roots is really in that in that navel gazing journaling tease.

[18:56] Grace Aki: That's so wild.

[18:59] Javi Debruin: Yeah, I always it's one of those things that I always people always told me I was a good writer. I always got a lot of validation and in like many different forms.

[19:08] Javi Debruin: So sometimes, you know, it would be an essay for class or it would be like a poem or something, but I but it that was always affirmed, but I never saw it as a path, a career path. It just was a thing I liked to do.

[19:23] Javi Debruin: And it was a thing that I sort of found a way to weave into anything I was doing. Um, and it took me until I don't know, I was like 26 or 27 to realize that this was an important storytelling is important to me.

[19:40] Javi Debruin: Um, I for many, many years, um, as a like emotion emo and soft little anxiety-ridden child, who's also a Muppet, as you well know.

[19:53] Grace Aki: Oh my gosh, we are all Muppets.

[19:54] Javi Debruin: That's a whole other pod.

[19:57] Javi Debruin: We are all Muppets. Um, I knew I loved to perform. Uh, and I knew that I loved the attention of performing.

[20:06] Javi Debruin: Um, and then after I was, you know, blessed to go through therapy for the first time at the age of 25. I was like, oh, I think that I just wanted the attention, but I don't actually get to what I but what I really wanted was to feel heard and to feel seen because I grew up in a place and in a way where I just never felt, you know, I'm a I'm a lot and there was not a lot of familiarity with the people around me, with like the things that I'm about.

[20:43] Javi Debruin: And so I never really felt seen, you know. And I think that drew me to performing in part because I'm a ham and it's fun and I like the validation and the attention, but in part because I wanted to be seen and heard.

[20:56] Javi Debruin: And I had this moment where I realized that acting alone was never gonna do that for me because I was always going to be playing out someone else's someone else's story, someone else's vision.

[21:09] Javi Debruin: And so I sort of was like, Well, I know I'm good at writing. I had taken my favorite class um in undergrad was a playwriting class, favorite class.

[21:20] Javi Debruin: Didn't take that as a cue, but that was like my absolute favorite class. You're like, I'm not gonna lean in, but it feels like you know what that was fun.

[21:28] Javi Debruin: Like I was very good at it. It was my favorite teacher, but like, I don't know. I'm gonna go do this though.

[21:35] Javi Debruin: And I was like, well, I know I can write. So what if I wrote things for me to be in?

[21:41] Javi Debruin: Um, and that sort of opened my mental pathway to giving myself the shot to write. But then I realized once I was writing that I was like, oh, don't look at me, don't perceive me.

[21:55] Javi Debruin: I wanna, I really I reached this point, and I guess this was really my Saturn return where I very much like retreated into not wanting to perform anymore, not wanting to play the roles that I had that were expected of me that I had been projecting and playing my whole life.

[22:18] Javi Debruin: And now, you know, in hindsight, like I look back at that and I see how much of that was tied up into explorations of my own gender, um, and a whole lot of other stuff.

[22:30] Javi Debruin: I was like, ooh, something's not right here. Something's not authentic, something's not hitting it right, you know, and I don't want to be out there.

[22:38] Javi Debruin: I want to be, yeah, I want to turn inward and figure out what this is.

[22:43] Javi Debruin: Um, yeah. And so that sort of was what led me to playwrighting back to playwriting in truth.

[22:53] Javi Debruin: And I took a class actually, thanks to Cara. Uh, we were talking about taking classes at um Espa, which is oh, and I'm gonna blink on the name of the uh org that it is, but it's they do a whole series of they do acting and they do writing classes.

[23:17] Javi Debruin: Um, I took a class there, my teacher there was so wonderful, and I wrote, you know, what is now become my first full-length play that I have now been developing um out Luciana Gas, which I'm you know currently developing for it was supposed to have a live actual, you know, debut in like a real play.

[23:47] Javi Debruin: Yes, like the like a play does, but uh with the pandemic that was not able to happen. So we did a virtual workshop instead.

[23:56] Javi Debruin: But you know, knock on wood, that's coming back this fall. There'll be a actual staged version of it.

[24:05] Grace Aki: That's right.

[24:06] Javi Debruin: Um, details PVD.

[24:09] Grace Aki: But yeah, so that's and that's where I wrote my first actual play ever.

[24:15] Javi Debruin: And it was the kind of thing where I felt self-conscious having this late in like late 20s, early 30s career shift of suddenly being like, no, I'm actually not trying to do this at all.

[24:30] Javi Debruin: I'm not trying to do this thing that I was wanting to do or thought I wanted to do for so long.

[24:35] Javi Debruin: Um, and I want to try this, and now, you know, seeing the other seeing other emerging playwrights who were often younger than I, but had had more experience by virtue of being on the path longer.

[24:54] Javi Debruin: Oh, I know. I know. It made me really self-conscious for a while.

[24:58] Javi Debruin: Um, it's a the there's also a paywall. Like, let's be like, you know what I mean? Like there's tr some transparency there because I I view it all the time.

[25:06] Javi Debruin: And I'm like, oh, maybe if I had gone to like Yale drama, like I do that all the time where I'm like, oh, maybe you know what, maybe my circumstances would be a little better.

[25:14] Javi Debruin: And it's like, no, like stop.

[25:16] Grace Aki: I don't want to do that to myself anymore because that's not gonna happen. Although, I mean, thanks to David Geffen, I guess we could all go for free. Um, but okay. I mean, but that's the thing to apply. So watch out, Yale drama. Yeah, like there's yeah, maybe maybe we'll just get in that. Um but that's the thing is like, you know, uh, with with your great work and like with anybody's great work, um, and then we see younger people like on the path, and then they get their work picked up by like New York Theater Workshop, and then they get their work picked up to go to the vineyard, and then they get the like there's there's all these paths that we all watch, especially like out of jealousy or whatever.

And I'm not saying that you are, but like sometimes it's happened to me, and I go, What the and then I'll go, wait, who's their dad? Or like who's you know, like where do they get to go to school, or like what do they get to, and then I have to like stop myself because then it's all so comparative and all and and everything. So just like writing and then doing you won a new dramatist award.

[26:14] Javi Debruin: I did not win.

[26:15] Grace Aki: I didn't know.

[26:15] Javi Debruin: No, you were okay. Sorry. Let me go back. I didn't know when.

[26:18] Grace Aki: You were a finalist, you're a finalist.

[26:20] Javi Debruin: I was a semifinalist.

[26:21] Grace Aki: Yeah.

[26:22] Javi Debruin: For the Princess Grace Award in 2019. With my first play.

[26:25] Grace Aki: That's what that's what I'm saying. Like, so I just want to remind you that like the work's damn good. And so I actually, you know, we were gonna talk about it later, but I don't want to talk about it now because you brought Luciana up. I've listened to you on an uh another pod talk about the inception of that if you feel comfortable without giving the play away. Uh will you tell the story of that was it one particular day or weekend?

[26:54] Javi Debruin: Oh well, so Lucy Lucy Ernigas or Angel Dearest, which Angel Dearest.

[26:59] Grace Aki: Angel Dearest, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[27:00] Javi Debruin: So Angel Dearest is my my the play I'm working on currently that uh is being developed as part of my work with the Parsonship Radio Roots Writers Group. Um we just I just did a reading of it with the Artist Theater of Boston, and we're hopefully gonna do like an encore stream because I know everyone's tired of Zoom theater, so I don't expect everyone to come to every Zoom, but we know I know. I have a thing in September. The week the week that theater is opening up in New York, I'm like, can you guys go the fuck home and watch my fucking play, please? So have to leave home. I'm like, for the cost of five dollars, you could order um I don't know, Quiznos. I don't know what you're eating. Um so, anyways, yeah, I want to talk about Angel Deers because the the story inception was just so interesting. And I was like, I don't know if this is funny or absolutely tragic, but it could be both. And I want to know about your because it's about your you're very very close to home for you.

[28:03] Javi Debruin: Yeah, yeah. It's a family play, it's a kitchen sink play about my family. Um it so happy birthday, Angel Dearest is loosely based on my siblings birthday party a few years back. Uh my sibling is like my favorite person on this planet, hands down. Um, and they also are on the autism spectrum and have schizoaffective disorder. And you know, there's a really particular unique dynamic within my family that is really that combination of what you just said. It's amazing and absurd and hilarious and at times tragic, but you know, whose family isn't.

[28:48] Grace Aki: Yeah.

[28:49] Javi Debruin: But it's just, you know, we we do it in our own unique flavor and way. And this particular party, um, you know, it's I I was there uh with a with my with an ex who is is the one our ex. And um we were after we left, you know, I turned to him and I was like, I have to this is a play. Like, what did we just see? And like props to him, props to him on the like train home. We took notes. I was like, okay, and then this happened because it's just it literally felt like I was living a play unfolding before me. It's like when you're watching something and you go, Am I an August Osage motherfucking county right now? Like And the thing is the reason that that particular evening stuck out to me is because it was so emblematic of I've had a million nights like that with my family, you know?

[29:49] Javi Debruin: And it felt like this is so emblematic of that, but you don't get to see this. You always get to see this with white families, frankly. Uh you don't really get to see this with but my family is Latinx. Um you don't really get to see this with people families that are not white. You don't get to see this where there is you know different like all of these intersections of queerness and transness and that's not there to be a skeptical.

[30:20] Grace Aki: Yeah exactly.

[30:21] Javi Debruin: Like the one lesbian sister and then there's like the one alcoholic so and so and I'm like these are like real first of all that's a real disease. Second of all like that that's not just like oh it's funny because they drink a lot. So I think that I'm so glad that you see it recognize it and then recognize that those stories have to be told because I don't see them.

[30:43] Grace Aki: No, I don't either but I was I think they're interesting to tell um and I struggle with you know the responsibility of writing for someone like my sibling I I am I don't know if I guess I'm not technic I technically I suppose neurotypical I have an anxiety disorder so I'm not I understand I have a an understanding of certain things that uh but I don't I am not on the spectrum to my knowledge um might have ADHD that I cannot confirm or deny.

[31:21] Javi Debruin: I don't know but um you know being I'm I was really cautious of the fact that a lot of times people tell stories and it becomes this like othering spectacle like you said. And I hope that this play is not that because this it's not it makes me so much I haven't read it but it's not exactly it's because it's your lived experience anytime somebody's like well I'm like you know that's like my life right yeah yeah you were there you took notes that's insane that you took notes by the way like that's awesome yeah yeah so you know it was it was wild I mean and a lot of the elements so I write with m in a magical realist genre usually and so there's definitely things that did not happen that are in the play.

[32:16] Javi Debruin: Um and it's of course you know uh it's changed for a lot of things so that it makes so that there are certain things that make more sense uh for it as a story as a play theatrically okay uh so there are things in that play that did not really happen that are not as they were um but there are but the sort of structure is very similar I mean um you know I had a an uncle visiting from out of town who joined us uh my my dad's half brother we had our my I had an a neighbor who I grew up with who is an amazing Irish man um and he was there and he brought a poem for my sibling as a birthday present he was like here you go here's this poem thank you uh and the poem that they read in the play is the poem that he brought and uh you know both my sibling and I I'm trans.

[33:16] Javi Debruin: I don't want to put I don't want to put labels onto my sibling that that they don't use uh but both of us very much are, you know, beyond this binary. And I think most recently they've described themselves as by gender. But so I wanted to create this space where there was just sort of like this full fan the full fantasy of things that we've talked about, right?

[33:45] Grace Aki: Yeah.

[33:45] Javi Debruin: Um but you know there a lot so a lot of it is it's there there's a lot of details in there that are real. There's a very dramatically timed fart that literally happened.

[34:00] Grace Aki: Oh thank god oh you're like no no no I didn't throw that in it no I was there.

[34:07] Javi Debruin: Yeah. And it's funny because um when I was working on this in writer's group and I had brought a scene to the table and it it was a challenge for me because this is a play that I don't feel one scene doesn't necessarily give you a look at the whole play. So as I was bringing like things piecemeal you know I would it it was I was getting you know constructive feedback but also it was hard to be like but but there's much more here you know um but I remember the scene that I brought in where there was a fart and we had a whole conversation about like why the fart why is it there? And I was really trying not to be like because that literally happened because I want to say it but it was like it's there because that's that's how it went down.

[34:57] Javi Debruin: I don't know what to say but it feels you know it felt again it just felt like it it shared up a dynamic in my family that I feel like is honest and silly you know and that I wanted to share so there it is um no it makes sense I mean it's it's good it's smart it's um it's thought out but also yeah you it's it's weird thing of like when something is a real thing and then you're writing you're like and other people are collaborating which you're like I'm supposed to do this I'm supposed to collaborate like I'm supposed to listen um sometimes you're like protective because you're like but I know the truth of it I don't know like I know the real thing of like where we were and how it felt and so you want to do the both of like listening and understanding you know these people might have like good takes and then at the same time like stay true to like what you know to be true because it can feel like because you're like I don't want to lie it's like no you're not lying you're not lying and that's and that's it right is it is a balance I think when you're telling stories that are so personal between what are the honest dynamics that you're gonna put in there and sometimes it's like honest fiction.

[36:09] Javi Debruin: So it's like something that never happened but like reflects the reflects the overall like the emotional honesty of what's there. And yeah it's been a wild ride and seeing it hearing it in the workshop um the reading the other day was really special it was really special to see what other people it's always fun to see what other people do with it especially coming from an acting background.

[36:40] Javi Debruin: I really love seeing actors make work and do their thing with it and directors and they like bring out things that I didn't even realize were there or hadn't put there consciously, you know. Um so it was really really a fun process, and I'm excited to see how it develops. Uh we're developing the play as an audio play initially, um, for the Parsnipship. So you know, at a time TVD when it's when we can make that happen, that'll be out for people to listen to. And yeah, I think that what I started to do also with that play, what I really like the pandemic sort of taught me and helped me lean into is really feeling like I want to write things that are joyful.

[37:15] Javi Debruin: I want to write specifically, I want to write trans joy. And I felt that, you know, right, I wrote most of this play in lockdown.

[37:58] Javi Debruin: And but it was so it's a story that has painful elements because, like, yes, my sibling was in the hospital at the time, and it was a period of time where they were in and out of the hospital, you know, consistently for several years. Um, and it was a hard time for my family, and it was a hard time for my sibling, and but I didn't want this to take, you know, I want I want to I write things that show that all that can coexist. Because I really think that we don't live our lives emotionally compartmentalized. You oftentimes when we're going through the hardest shit in our lives, we can have some of the most amazing moments. And we're we can still experience joy through pain, and we can still be having painful times when really wonderful celebratory things are happening in our lives. And we like to compartmentalize that. And I think that it's really there's a freedom in being able to acknowledge both things simultaneously.

[39:09] Grace Aki: Yeah.

[39:10] Javi Debruin: Um, I don't did you see MCC's um all the Natalie Portmans.

[39:14] Grace Aki: Yeah, funny thing.

[39:16] Javi Debruin: Uh CA Johnson is a college friend of mine. We did a cappella together. Obsessed. Fucking upset. That's I love her. Fucking funny.

[39:26] Grace Aki: Well, then I'm really glad that I well, no, we'll keep this in because I was like, I don't know if that's a weird thing to say, but like I feel like just hearing you talk about like how you see joy and like some of your painful writing, but also in like a surrealist, like kind of like uh I just I I that was one of the last things I saw.

[39:48] Javi Debruin: Yeah, same, same. I went I went on Valentine's Day.

[39:55] Grace Aki: Okay, romance.

[39:57] Javi Debruin: I don't know if that was it wasn't that romantic, but it I don't know. Anyways, it was yeah, I really loved it. Um and I just was so excited by that type of work coming through. And I know that you've worked with MCC like recently on a project. Can you tell me the story of that? Because yeah, I just want to know. It's uh it was an audio experience, correct? Am I remembering this?

[40:18] Javi Debruin: Yeah, yeah.

[40:20] Grace Aki: Yeah.

[40:21] Javi Debruin: So uh this is again with the partnership with the Radio Roots Writers group. We when when everything was shut down, um, Ivon Ideberry, who is the host and co-founder of it, um, and who's just an amazing force in theater and is now working at signature theater and um like watch out because she's just gonna take theater in a star direction that it needs to go in. Um she's a boss, like full boss energy. Um, and she was taught she had been talking to a lot of theaters that were like, oh, what a novel thing. We'll make audio theater. And you know, it was like, hey, well, there's actually people who have been out here doing that. So maybe you don't need to reinvent the wheel. Maybe you can consult with people who have been doing that.

[41:14] Grace Aki: Hold on, hold on. What you're saying is really blowing my noodle. You're telling me that there are people in the world already making the art that you are trying to look for. Interesting.

[41:23] Javi Debruin: Okay. Okay.

[41:25] Grace Aki: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Pretty mind blowing stuff, right?

[41:29] Javi Debruin: Yeah. Um, and you know, to MCC's credit, they uh talked with Ivonne and we did this collaboration and it's a six-part radio play called This Is Where We Go. It's uh available to stream anywhere. You stream podcasts, it's on Spotify, iTunes, um, I think it's on Stitcher. I don't know. Um Yeah, yeah, and really good about it. I'm the one nerd who still has Stitcher, but uh it's yeah, it's it's ever it's everywhere. It's it's very easily accessible. Um there's episodes on YouTube as well because we did some live episodes and there are some interviews with the writers on on YouTube.

[42:14] Javi Debruin: Um it is derived from the famous Octavia Butler quote about Goddess Change, right? Um that was sort of the inspiration, the prompt that we were given as writers, and we were charged with writing a story collaboratively, which in theater is that's like that doesn't happen a lot, you know. That's so it was this interesting combination of it felt similar. I've never been in a television writing room, but it felt similar to we structured, where we're all have ideas, we have storyboards, and then we sort of each go off and write our own episode.

[42:59] Javi Debruin: Um we ultimately ended up doing a sort of uh amores peros like crash uh babble thing where like all the stories intersect. Um crash and babble. Title of Up. Um, but yeah, so it it did that. So we each have an episode, each of us the four writers in the group. Um, and then the first episode and the last episode were written by two and two. So two of us wrote the first episode, and then two of us wrote the the last episode. Um, and we collectively came together with the story that sort of unifies folks, and the overall plot of it is that the the sun disappears from the sky one day, and we follow different characters throughout different time periods as they deal with either the the precursor or the or the moment of the sun disappearing or the aftermath.

[44:03] Javi Debruin: Um and the question that is begged is what do you do you create a new world or do you recreate the world as you knew it? And a question for theater, yeah, in this moment, um, and certainly something we were all feeling last summer um and this summer as well, right? So um it was it was a very fast process, I think maybe quicker than a lot of us because we all have our different distinct writing styles, we all have our process, you know, and so it was a challenge. You had to we to I think all had to work outside our processes in in different ways. I really loved the challenge of it.

[44:48] Javi Debruin: Um and I found it really fulfilling to figure out how we could all tell the stories we want to tell that were all very different, yeah, how we could make them all work together. Exactly.

[45:05] Grace Aki: Yeah.

[45:06] Javi Debruin: Um so it was really fun, and it felt really exciting to feel like this is a thing that's more accessible than a lot of traditional theater, and that's the thing that I really hope as we return to live theater that we take. I hope we don't just throw the baby out with the bathwater, you know. Like I hope we take away from this experience, the ways that we can make theater accessible, yeah.

[45:37] Javi Debruin: And the ways that you know limitations are so important to creativity. It's with limitation and with boundaries and with um, you know, challenging a challenging set of circumstances that creativity can thrive. So I hope that we I hope that it invigorates theater in the time to come. I hope that we create new worlds. We're gonna keep doing it either way. I think that that's what it is.

[46:11] Javi Debruin: I I can no longer expect people to do the right thing, um, or or do the best thing or do the most interesting creative progressive thing. But I can keep going.

[46:23] Grace Aki: You can keep going.

[46:24] Javi Debruin: We can we can keep uh you know, banging on the door, and if they don't let you know the door in, we're just gonna we're gonna cut a hole in the bottom and then squeeze our way through the doggy door.

[46:35] Grace Aki: Um or we'll do it outside.

[46:37] Javi Debruin: Yeah, or we'll do, or we're gonna keep doing it out theater.

[46:41] Grace Aki: Yeah, yeah. I mean, and and you know, like we keep finding new organizations that were like, okay, cool, I'll take my amazing work and do it somewhere else. I'll do it over here, and then that place will get praised, and then they'll get the notoriety they deserve, finally. And it's all it's all this like you know, cyclical stuff that I I kept we all kept waiting for like these big institutions to be like, just pick one, just pick one.

[47:04] Javi Debruin: It can't just be Jeremy O'Harris.

[47:06] Grace Aki: It can't.

[47:07] Javi Debruin: It's gotta be everybody, you know. So that's not fair to Jeremy O'Harris.

[47:12] Grace Aki: Like, right. The other thing is when you like tokenism isn't fair to anyone because you have to be everything to represent your community or communities, you have to be all the things.

[47:25] Javi Debruin: And no one is all the things. Like no, we all have flaws. And it's just boring.

[47:29] Grace Aki: Like let's get some variety.

[47:33] Javi Debruin: Obviously, like it's all boring. I'm bored.

[47:38] Grace Aki: So rude.

[47:39] Javi Debruin: I'm so rude.

[47:39] Grace Aki: No, you're not. It's just funny.

[47:41] Javi Debruin: It's a boring honesty.

[47:43] Grace Aki: Same approach, you know.

[47:44] Javi Debruin: It's it's not that the work that's produced is boring because there's obviously great work out there. But it's just the the tactics that are uh, you know the programming is boring.

[47:57] Grace Aki: Like, come on.

[47:58] Javi Debruin: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's getting better.

[48:01] Grace Aki: Um it is.

[48:02] Javi Debruin: It is. I I I I see it.

[48:04] Grace Aki: Um I wanted to ask you, because I know we talk a lot about playwright and fine arts and all that good stuff, but like you are heavily involved in documentary work. And I just wanted to know like how that happened.

[48:14] Javi Debruin: Like, can you tell me a story of like the inception and or like how you like you've got like there's there's a laundry list like can you like trans and trump land, it disclosure, there's so many. I'm just like, these are like big works and I wanna I wanted to ask you about them.

[48:28] Javi Debruin: Like, how did how did all of it happen?

[48:31] Javi Debruin: Yeah, it's some I asked myself that because I never foresaw I like documentary is awesome. I think it's can be a really wonderful tool and I and a really beautiful art form, um, and a poignant way to see into the lives of people who aren't represented in broader uh entertainment culture. And I never thought I would be in any way involved with documentaries, but um I'm ironically sort of got there by way of theater because I had worked when I lived, um, I lived in Los Angeles for six years, and for uh um a few years of that time, I had been working uh out there at the Kirk Douglas Theater for Center Theater Group, um doing audience engagement in the lobby, doing like front of house patron engagement.

[49:25] Javi Debruin: Yes.

[49:26] Grace Aki: It was cool.

[49:27] Javi Debruin: It was really cool. And we were, you know, it there's it was at the it was at a time when that was sort of like new for a lot of smaller theaters, and working in a theater that was a smaller a theater for like small a smaller theater for newer, more experimental work. There was a little freedom to do stuff like that. Um, but I got to see how much more enriched a theater experience um or any art experience can be by creating intentional community around it, intentional space for people who are taking it in to talk about it.

[50:06] Javi Debruin: Um sometimes literally, sometimes through a game or an activity, you know. Um, and someone who I worked with there, uh brilliant person who now works uh with the Sundance Institute, um when I had moved to New York, reached out to me one day and was like, Hey, are you looking for work? Um, you know, I know of a doc filmmaker who's looking for some support with community outreach.

[50:35] Javi Debruin: Um, and that filmmaker is Nancy Schwartzman, who is the director of the documentary Roll Red Roll, um, and which is on Netflix.

[50:43] Grace Aki: Yeah.

[50:44] Javi Debruin: Um Nancy uh is, you know, on top of being a brilliant documentary film director, also had worked herself doing impact producing in the documentary field.

[50:57] Javi Debruin: And I worked with her for a little bit. And then actually I left because then I was working full-time at Roundabout. But then I, you know, went back when the right before the film premiered uh in its festival premiere at Tribeca to help with the impact campaign in large part because you know, she was like, I think you could be really good at this. You have not done literally done impact producing before, but you've done a lot of different things that play into it. And I was I thought, okay, that sounds really cool. And, you know, because not a lot of people know what impact producing is um outside of the doc sphere, impact producing is a lot of things, but essentially it's working with filmmakers to um, or or any artist really, like working with an artist to engage audiences, uh, but all beyond just like you come to see experience the thing and then you leave.

Um there's so you know, we connect audiences with organizations and community groups who are doing work around issues that might be presented in a film, um, and try to provide calls to action, um, try to set up screenings in, you know, unconventional places or find ways for people who might not normally have access to this to a film to get access to it and to discuss it and really start these community conversations. Um and that was something I was very familiar with, just in a different context. Um so that's where that started.

[52:42] Javi Debruin: I learned that I was good at it and that it's fulfilling. You're like, okay, I see. It's, you know, it's an unconventional, it is a day job for me in many ways because I am a playwright. That's what I want to do. But I love that I talk about it as part of an ecosystem, a virtuous circle of, you know, I love that I can both make my work and try to put it out in the world. And then the flip of it is that I get to help other artists make their work as meaningful as possible to other people, you know, like really help really help amplify the reasoning that they made for making it, you know, like help their work have the biggest impact that it can have. And that's really cool and fulfilling. And I've gotten, you know, through this process I've I've been really lucky. I've gotten to work with really amazing projects with really amazing filmmakers. And I get to talk to amazing activists and thought leaders and change makers.

[53:52] Grace Aki: Which informs your work as a playwright.

[53:55] Javi Debruin: Yeah. So it's all it all kind of sits together.

[53:58] Grace Aki: Yeah, it's all this funky ecosystem that I never would have guessed. But here we are.

[54:02] Javi Debruin: You say ecosystem and I say lasagna.

[54:06] Grace Aki: Famously the sailors made an incredible lasagna when I was hashtag uh alone in Brooklyn. I don't know how else to say it like I don't know what to label that time in my life. I'm just on play hashtag alone in Brooklyn. Um, and they brought and I was like, this is all of our friendships in one delicious lasagna.

[54:24] Javi Debruin: I mean it's like spinach. You know what I mean?

[54:26] Grace Aki: So you're you're totally right. But I also lasagna.

[54:29] Javi Debruin: It's a lasagna.

[54:30] Grace Aki: It's a lasagna.

[54:32] Javi Debruin: No, I like that much better. Everybody's because everybody's so important, but you can't it when you take one thing out, it's like yuck. You know, no cheese, stop. No tomatoes. All right, you need to go. Like, I can't do it.

[54:44] Grace Aki: Oh, now I'm very hungry. Um, now we've reached to that point where I'm hungry, and um, we we have this part of the show where we do a short story, and basically what happens is I will give you a word suggestion. I could say squirrel, and you could tell a story about a fox, and I'd be totally satisfied. Um, it's just a meant to get you going. It's like a two-minute little moment to tell a story that you would not normally tell or that you made up. I don't really care. Uh but I give you a word and then you give me a word. I can go first, you can go first, whichever you prefer on storytelling. I will leave it to you.

[55:22] Javi Debruin: Oh. Um, why don't you give me a word and then I will give you a word.

[55:29] Grace Aki: Cool. Um, I will set this timer.

[55:33] Javi Debruin: How long do we got?

[55:35] Grace Aki: Two minutes.

[55:36] Javi Debruin: Two minutes. Okay. I'll I'll you got this.

[55:41] Javi Debruin: Oh gosh. Um, all right. Your Javi, your short story time is two minutes. Your word is sprinkle. Go.

[55:54] Javi Debruin: Sprinkle. Uh I was in a a show called Sprinkles in Los Angeles. Um at the booklet bootleg theater, which now I think no longer exists. Someone's saving it, I think. But a show called Sprinkles, it was a uh it was like a cabaret, and I did two really, I think they were terrible pieces in hindsight. Okay, you know, you show up, you do what you can do. Uh, that I did a a um I guess performance art uh loosely piece um to the the sweater song by Weezer that involved people pulling threads out of a big sweater um that had different uh I don't know it was like this thread is my codependency and this thread is my and the audience was very, very confused, and it's okay. It's okay. I did the thing. Um and it was called Sprinkles.

[57:04] Grace Aki: Wow. Okay, well, you you were able to do that in a minute, which first of all, very impressive. Second of all, did that really happen?

[57:11] Javi Debruin: It really happened.

[57:12] Grace Aki: What an honor you shared that story today that I would never have known or guessed.

[57:20] Javi Debruin: What have you what's the weirdest thing you've ever done to the sweater song?

[57:23] Grace Aki: It's not what you think.

[57:25] Javi Debruin: It's not what you think.

[57:27] Grace Aki: It's really not.

[57:28] Javi Debruin: It's not what you think.

[57:30] Grace Aki: That's great.

[57:30] Javi Debruin: Wow. I also love that we we've always, and this is not to knock it at all, you could still do it today, and I'd be like, that's great entertainment. We all like look for so much meaning in songs that we love.

[57:42] Grace Aki: Yeah.

[57:43] Javi Debruin: Like artistically, I think we all do that. And sometimes it's like, there's a song. And you know, I will say, because of my Pisces Rising, I am very prone to very sad navel gazy songs, or I'll just like I like those sad soulful songs, and then people are like are you okay there's a there's actually a Weezer song that they did with AJR called All My Favorite Songs Are Sad and Slow.

[58:08] Grace Aki: I don't know that song but now I'm gonna know it.

[58:11] Javi Debruin: Now you're gonna know it.

[58:13] Javi Debruin: So it plays this off I have another I uh just since I made a short story a tangential addendum to that is that I uh went to a New Year's Eve party at the home of the bassist from Weezer uh because my ex's friend played ultimate frisbee I want to say with him um you are gotta love people it was LA people were paying playing cornhole in the yard and there was karaoke happening next to like the platinum blue album it was a time so that's my bonus story no no that well you got an extra minute because you you were so good with the one minute wow whoa wow LA what a wild place I've I have yet to go um because I'm scared of it I I think it's a lot of things a lot of anxiety with like going it is like comparative I don't know and it's just like this weird like my idea of it feels like I will be so self conscious and like self hating and or like not good at like it's just like I don't know if I can do it.

[59:24] Javi Debruin: It can be that but if you let yourself get past the surface it's just a weird place and that's what I love about it. Is it's just a weird ass place where you do shit like play cornhole in the yard of the bassist from Weezer. I mean, I don't know.

[59:40] Grace Aki: That's uh that's adorable. And um, I'm glad that you have that experience. I'm glad that's in there. After talking about like, oh, and then it was like on the way to that party. Friends were talking about that documentary, The Staircase. That's like a true crime talk about the the woman who dies, and they think the man pushed him down the stairs, and so people think it's owls, and I don't know.

[1:00:04] Javi Debruin: That's LA though.

[1:00:05] Grace Aki: Like all of that weird.

[1:00:06] Javi Debruin: That's LA baby.

[1:00:09] Grace Aki: That's what I'm really you're not really selling it to me.

[1:00:12] Javi Debruin: I'm just letting you know.

[1:00:14] Grace Aki: But at the same time, I do want to eat a lot of places there.

[1:00:18] Javi Debruin: So I think that that's what will take me.

[1:00:19] Grace Aki: It won't be work, it won't be because I booked a pilot. It'll be because I literally just like I want to eat.

[1:00:24] Javi Debruin: That's it. Or if you if you visit, tell me, and I will give you a list of the weirdest places to go while you're there to have fun and to demystify.

[1:00:35] Grace Aki: I would love that because I feel like everybody's gonna tell me to like go to certain like board. I'm like, no, no, no. I'm not trying to live Romeo plus Juliet. A la Boz Larman. I'm trying to eat my way through LA.

[1:00:48] Javi Debruin: Oh yeah.

[1:00:49] Grace Aki: Say hello.

[1:00:50] Javi Debruin: A lot of good food in LA.

[1:00:52] Grace Aki: Yeah, yeah.

[1:00:53] Javi Debruin: I only go if there's good food.

[1:00:54] Grace Aki: So that's me.

[1:00:55] Javi Debruin: That's what's well. So now that I've been inspired to give you a word.

[1:00:59] Grace Aki: Oh yeah, here we go.

[1:01:01] Javi Debruin: And it's sweater.

[1:01:04] Grace Aki: Okay.

[1:01:04] Javi Debruin: Um, sweater m makes me think about this. Um, the sweater that actually um uh a director friend, uh, who I know also through the wing and uh the barrow group, um, Kate Robards got me this sweater that I have I have never felt so connected to like an Argyle sweater. Like, because okay, she'd seen me wear this Rachel Ansinoff like I think they're like embryo like vaginal situation right and I was so excited about it I was so excited about this uterine uh sweater and because I loved wearing it back home I was like I just really love it because I have a lot of like endometriosis problems and stuff and so I was trying to like learn how to like love the system that I do love and like you know what I mean like it's whatever it's everybody's like journey um but I I was like, you know uh um and then I was she saw me wearing that a lot uh especially in rehearsals and then she got me this like Argyle like came over the top of my um almost to my chin like a turtleneck uh but had like all of these like feminist uh like little labels all over the top of it but like sewn like someone crocheted or no they knit like embroider yeah very like aggressively into the top part of this like it's part of the design like I mean I'm not gonna say Bill Cosby because we don't like but like that era of sweater making do you know what I'm referring to yeah but I I wish I could find another I should sweaters 80s dad sweaters let's go there um cut Bill um don't want to give space for him but anyway so yeah like um it just felt like that and it was like kind of like a little bit big on me and I just felt seen by a sweater I've never felt seen by an article of clothing like that before and I was just like, this is silly. And I love her for that that. That was really thoughtful. But like, so now I just have some like very aggressively some sweaters.

[1:03:09] Javi Debruin: And I'm like, I gotta like piece these out. Like, I can't just like back to back. It can't be all that I do during the year. But also. But also. Be seen by those sweaters. Be zine. There's a lot. There's a lot of like Rachel. And that was my two minutes. But there's so much like Rachel Antinoff, like uh as a designer and like kind of a comedian in a way that she like does her clothing. Um, I just love her silly absurd prints. And I wore when I got my vaccine head to toe, this dress, uh headband and mask all matching by her of this like dumb caviar print. And I I love it so much. I mean, she's not dumb, it's not dumb, but like it's just so silly. And I was so excited to wear it to get my vaccine. And then she reposted my photo, and I was like, Yes, I feel so cool.

[1:04:09] Grace Aki: That's amazing.

[1:04:10] Javi Debruin: Yeah, we love a silly print. We love a silly print. In the last like three years, I don't know if it's everyone. I hope it's everyone, but I have truly decided to say I fucking don't care. This brings me joy, and I'm gonna put it on my body. Like, I don't know why I spent so many years. I know why, because capitalism. Um, for years, we all do, we all do being like, well, this is how I should dress. This is how I should dress for this, this is how I stress for that. And and sure, there's some like dumb like etiquette stuff with it, or like you know, uh casual stuff, you know, formal wear, whatever. But like I just love expressing myself now through whatever dumb caviar print I want. And that's I don't know.

I think that's where the style fun lives like yeah have you found this wear where you're like all matching caviar print set why is why not oh yeah i live i live that i think i found that i think because i like never had very traditional paths i found that in my 20s at some point and just like kept going with it and you're talking about sweaters and i'm thinking about a sweater and maybe it was this sweater that really started it all but uh i have a sweater that was stolen from the smith college uh costume department by a friend who will remain nameless for for their protection they're gonna come after you um and uh it is a sweater that is a bear chasing it's an it's a embroidery of like a bear chasing a hunter with a cannon and firing the cannon at the hunter and it looks very like fall autumnal colors so I think it must have been made in the 70s because you know how in the 70s there was a lot of that like burnt orange and like terracotta brownie like it's like that is absolutely 76 to 78 a hot point of like dirt exactly exactly hot dirt it was it's a hot dirt colored sweater with a bear chasing a hunter with a cannon yeah, that sounds right.

[1:06:32] Grace Aki: Actually, I would like to see a sweater that started at all.

[1:06:35] Javi Debruin: I mean, I could go get it.

[1:06:38] Grace Aki: Can you go get it?

[1:06:39] Javi Debruin: Yeah.

[1:06:39] Grace Aki: Do you want to see it?

[1:06:40] Javi Debruin: Yeah, I do.

[1:06:42] Grace Aki: Okay.

[1:06:46] Javi Debruin: Oh no. I'm so sorry. Uh everyone that um hobbies up. Getting a sweater. I hope it's not. Are you ready?

[1:07:00] Grace Aki: Yeah.

[1:07:01] Javi Debruin: You ready for this?

[1:07:02] Grace Aki: Yeah.

[1:07:03] Javi Debruin: Okay. Here is this this bad boy.

[1:07:09] Grace Aki: Oh wow.

[1:07:11] Javi Debruin: That this reveal is absolutely worth it. This is the sweater.

[1:07:18] Grace Aki: Can you see all of it? Can you like that way?

[1:07:21] Javi Debruin: Oh, the running. This is the running gentleman.

[1:07:25] Grace Aki: That hunter is running.

[1:07:26] Javi Debruin: The yeah. The hunter is running. The bear is in charge of a cannon.

[1:07:30] Grace Aki: Yep.

[1:07:33] Javi Debruin: The bear's like, fuck off, buddy. And then there's like, you know, trees.

[1:07:40] Grace Aki: No, that's the best thing. That's the best thing.

[1:07:45] Javi Debruin: Wow. That was nothing like I thought it would look. And everything I needed it to be. Because I like that the image stopped and said, no, we can't possibly go on. The rest is gonna be ribbed.

[1:08:00] Grace Aki: This is what it is.

[1:08:01] Javi Debruin: Yeah, yeah. And then it's just uh oh, and it's on front and back.

[1:08:07] Grace Aki: Yeah.

[1:08:07] Javi Debruin: This is the back. The image is on both sides of you, so that the people in front of you can see that the bear is in charge. And then the back also.

[1:08:15] Grace Aki: Yeah, so there's no, and it has these buttons and the collar. I don't know if it was like overly starched, but the collar doesn't sit. So you just perpetually have a popped collar.

[1:08:28] Javi Debruin: Oh, well, that's I think that's pure polo sexy. But like, you know, yeah.

[1:08:34] Grace Aki: Yeah.

[1:08:34] Javi Debruin: Wow. That was really worth it. Thanks. I'm sorry that you had to go into your closet, but uh that was really important to me. I'm glad that I could uh I'm glad I could share this with the sweater with you.

[1:08:46] Grace Aki: I you did, and I appreciate it. Uh Javi, is there anything that you particularly want to shout out into the world that you are doing that you want people to pay attention to besides me talking at the beginning of this because of all the ways they can follow your journeys and uh follow your projects. Is there anything else that I could possibly shout out?

[1:09:10] Javi Debruin: Sure. There's stuff coming that I can't I can't talk about yet. Um as there's a lot of people. Well, whenever you have them, just send them. But I but I can say like keep your eyes peeled for Lucierne's fall of 2021. Uh details to come. Um keep your ears peeled for happy birthday, Angel Dearest. Details to come. Um, and oh something cool that just dropped today. So not today when people are listening, but today when we're recording.

[1:09:47] Grace Aki: Yeah.

[1:09:48] Javi Debruin: Um they uh one of the things that I have been working on with the documentary disclosure, um, Eliza Lick, the impact producer, and myself and the red owl team have been um putting together a series of toolkits um that are like that basically it's toolkits, so they have clips from disclosure. They have um educational material that that can be drawn on, converse tips for how to start a conversation about disclosure. There's a glossary of terms, there's resources that people can turn to. And we've created it for all kinds of audiences to engage who might want to get engaged with the film. We have a toolkit for universities and community groups. We have a toolkit for lawyers because we actually got a especially with all of the really awful um anti-trans bills happening now.

We've actually had a lot of lawyers express that that it was a really helpful tool for them. An awesome judge in California is who is a trans judge is like has used this to like share with with her colleagues. I want it to be required reading for high schools and middle school sometimes. I mean to be to be frank with you, because I I find that it is more than uh a great documentary and a great film. Like I think it's an actual tool that we will use for years, hopefully going forward, and that we can expand upon, um especially in the entertainment industry, but beyond. There's a toolkit for that we put together with um Truth, which is a combination of the it's a it's a combined effort of the GSA network and transgender law center.

Um so we put that together so that to with the hopes to like use it within GSA networks. So yeah, it's out there. So it's on if you visit the disclosure website, um it's there. It's there. There are toolkits there. Um, you know, I think there there is a uh fee for or a suggested donation for institutions, but it's also one of the things where like money should never be a barrier to learning so if you can't pay the fee shoot us a note um um and yeah so i want to shout out that um yeah awesome well thank you i really appreciate it and yeah i always want people i i'll shout out on the streets i'm like you guys need disclosure like having nothing to do with anything i'm just like hey i'm just saying have you seen it yeah have you seen it because i don't know if you've seen it you know what i'm saying um this was really really lovely and i appreciate so much of your time and you've got so many great things that you're working on but also like i appreciate that you take the time to care for yourself and i i love i love watching the way that you talk about things and yourself on social media a lot i think that it's it's helpful for um anybody's mental health journey I don't mean that that's the only thing that you talk about um but it's just like I go okay cool yeah like self-respect got it got it yeah I gotta remember that you know what I mean like it's just it's hard sometimes so anyways um it's not it's not very particularly curated but yes anyone can follow me mix hobby quapx and x j u a px yeah I post a lot of astrology memes mental health memes is good a lot of queer and trans memes um I've been sharing a little bit about my own transition and my own journey on there these days.

Um yeah, and about my plays. So if there's something new coming up, you can always find it there too um or or on my website, uh JRiveraDebruin.com. Eventually somebody's gonna be like, oh my god, I remember hearing them on Tell Me on a Sunday podcast. And then all of a sudden they're working and then I went to the play and did a da-da-da-da. So but in the meantime, you can stream.

[1:14:04] Grace Aki: Thanks, Javi. That's really great.

[1:14:06] Javi Debruin: Oh heads are I'm bad at the exhausted on that note. I'm gonna end our little broadcast. This was lovely. Thank you all so much for joining me on uh Tell Me on a Sunday today. This was a lovely Sunday. Uh I'm sorry that it did not come out when I thought it was gonna come out, but uh it came out now. I want to shout out Kevin, Jeff, Joe, Triple Threats, Matt, Damonini, Caitlin, Carson, and Marissa, Priscilla, Abigail, Rick and Margaret, who, you know, I love them. Uh, you guys are incredible patrons of mine, and I appreciate you so much. If you haven't already and you would like to, I would love it if you would go on all of my social media channels at it's Grace Aki and make sure that you are getting a either a live in person ticket to see my solo show to free a mockingbird.

I've been working on it for a long time now, uh, with my director Kate Robards. And now it's being produced by She ATL, and I'm so honored to be a part of them. Uh, it's gonna be August 28th in Atlanta for the live show, and then the stream will begin September 11th at 7 30 p.m. And it will run for five days. So you could watch it at 5 a.m. or at 8 p.m. with a bunch of your friends, as long as they're healthy and vaccinated. And uh I just I'm I'm so excited about all these great opportunities that I have coming up. So thank you all for your support all of the time and have a wonderful week. We will see you soon.