This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Tamala ALDRIDGE: Ladies and gentlemen, we invite your apprehensive listening.

[0:05] Blaine Teamer: The person who ignited my passion for theater was my high school drama teacher, a white woman from Texas.

[0:14] Tamala ALDRIDGE: Oh, how interesting.

[0:15] Blaine Teamer: She saw something in me that not only, you know, does she have this, you know, outgoing, vivacious personality, but she really has something. Let me nurture that.

[0:26] Blaine Teamer: And you know, she gave me a monologue. She didn't give me a monologue from a Raisin in the Sun.

[0:28] Tamala ALDRIDGE: Hey!

[0:28] Blaine Teamer: She didn't give me a Maya Angelou poem thing. She gave me Antigone, Greek. Learn it.

[0:39] Tamala ALDRIDGE: The most important thing for any person, people, period, before a young person is when somebody really sees you.

[0:48] Blaine Teamer: And it doesn't have to be this long-term relationship. Someone sees you in that moment, sees what you have to offer, and validates it.

[0:56] Tamala ALDRIDGE: Do you remember the teacher's name?

[0:58] Blaine Teamer: Yes, Brenda Prothrop.

[1:00] Tamala ALDRIDGE: May I say it just once more, please?

[1:01] Blaine Teamer: Brenda Prothrop.

[1:03] Tamala ALDRIDGE: And is she still with us?

[1:04] Blaine Teamer: Yes, she's still with us.

[1:05] Tamala ALDRIDGE: I still communicate with her on Facebook.

[1:06] Blaine Teamer: Well, shout out to Miss Brenda.

[1:09] Tamala ALDRIDGE: Shout out to Miss Brenda.

[1:11] Tamala ALDRIDGE: Hello, my name is TAMAL Aldridge, and I am the executive artistic director of Only Make Believe.

[1:17] Blaine Teamer: That glint in your eyes can mean only one thing. You're listening to the Afro-Existential Podcast on the Broadway Podcast Network.

[1:26] Tamala ALDRIDGE: We were awaiting you.

[1:27] Blaine Teamer: Welcome back to the Afro-Existential Podcast, the audio play and interview series in one. Designed to enlighten, entertain, and expand how you see the world around you. I'm your host, Blaine Teamer.

[1:41] Blaine Teamer: I was afraid of that. And on today's show, I had the pleasure of speaking with the executive artistic director of the children's nonprofit called Only Make Believe, TAMAL Aldridge.

[1:52] Blaine Teamer: Only Make Believe creates and performs interactive theater for medically fragile children in hospitals and care facilities across the country. We discussed how she brought her acting experience to the organization, the importance of imagination, and how integral the arts can be in healing the minds and bodies of children.

[2:11] Blaine Teamer: But before we go to commercial, here's an excerpt from our audio play, Deadweight, a Journey in Afroexistentialism. In this scene, Oliver comes out of the closet and encourages his mother, Georgina, to do the same. We shall begin now.

[2:25] Tamala ALDRIDGE: Don't identify with not being rich.

[2:28] Georgina: Does that make sense?

[2:30] Oliver: It most certainly does.

[2:31] Georgina: And neither do I, mother. You know what we are, mother?

[2:35] Oliver: We're trans affluent.

[2:37] Georgina: Hmm?

[2:38] Oliver: Trans what? You know how you have your transgenders, people whose sense of personal identity and gender does not correspond with their birth sex, right?

[2:47] Georgina: Mm-hmm.

[2:48] Oliver: If you say so.

[2:49] Georgina: I don't say so. That's what they say. They feel like they belong to the opposite of what they are. Isn't that us? Isn't that us, dammit?

[2:57] Georgina: No, not at all.

[2:59] Oliver: Yes, it is. Listen, we feel like we belong with affluent people, and we don't identify with being poor. So we are trans affluent.

[3:07] Georgina: You just made that nonsense up.

[3:14] Oliver: Oh, but somebody said they were transracial. You remember that lady?

[3:18] Georgina: Yes!

[3:18] Oliver: Now that's a thing. Transracial. She came out white as cotton, got some cornrows, a spray tan, said she was black and got a Netflix special. So why can't we be trans-affluent?

[3:30] Georgina: Well, I guess, but what I'm trying to say is that look, I go to church and I was saved. I was a devoted wife. I tried to be a good mother. Didn't I try? Don't I deserve something more than nothing?

[3:43] Oliver: People don't get what they deserve, mother.

[3:45] Georgina: True.

[3:46] Oliver: Yes. People don't get what they deserve. God knows that's true.

[3:52] Georgina: Wait. What do you mean?

[3:55] Oliver: You get what you can get away with getting. And that has nothing to do with what you deserve. You think the black people picking cotton deserve to be slaves?

[4:03] Georgina: No.

[4:04] Oliver: No, it's right. But guess what?

[4:05] Georgina: What?

[4:05] Oliver: The cotton sure got picked, didn't it? But moving your father's dead body, it's just wrong.

[4:11] Georgina: Let me tell you something. That cotton got picked and right and wrong didn't have nothing to say about it.

[4:18] Oliver: We'll be right back after a brief commercial break.

[4:21] Tamala ALDRIDGE: Every day I struggle with caring. I don't want to have to struggle with my hair. Get me an improved Afroexistential sheen shampoo and reconditioner.

[4:34] Tamala ALDRIDGE: Oh. It goes deep into your roots and uncovers the natural beauty that's been there all the time.

[4:41] Tamala ALDRIDGE: Yeah. Every day I live the struggle. I don't want to have to struggle with my hair. And for added projection on those caring days, there's Afroexistential Sheen Super Holding Hairspray.

[4:55] Tamala ALDRIDGE: A protein-based hairspray that holds your hair back. But it won't hold you back.

[5:02] Tamala ALDRIDGE: I don't even have to take my earrings off. I hate to think where I'd be without it. Afro existential sheen shampoo, reconditioner, and relaxer. Get it today, your roots will thank you. And that's no lie.

[5:19] Blaine Teamer: Oh welcome back to the Afro-Existential Podcast.

[5:28] Tamala ALDRIDGE: Hi.

[5:28] Blaine Teamer: Hey! I have a feeling this whole business isn't over yet. Our special guest today is the executive artistic director of Only Make Believe, TAMAL Aldridge.

[5:38] Blaine Teamer: Tamala had an extensive background as an actress on the stage and screen prior to coming to Only Make Believe. And I was curious to know how that impacted her work as Only Make Believe's executive artistic director. But I started by asking TAMAL to provide a history of Only Make Believe and to discuss her role as its executive artistic director.

[6:04] Tamala ALDRIDGE: So Only Make Believe was started in 1999. It's 24 years old. Our founder's name is Dina Hammerstein. She is the wife of James Hammerstein, who was Oscar Hammerstein's son. And Oscar wrote all the Broadway plays with Rogers and Hammerstein.

[6:22] Tamala ALDRIDGE: So Dina and Jane always volunteered at children's hospitals. And because of their Broadway affiliation, they would want to take the children to the Broadway show. But a child with a serious medical condition, getting dressed from a hospital, being transported to a show, sitting in a show for three hours, being transported back, though it may have been a wonderful experience, it can be physically and emotionally taxing.

[6:54] Tamala ALDRIDGE: But I made the choice to step back from an acting career and work with this nonprofit because I just saw honestly a lot of brown and black children because of their medical conditions or their developmental disabilities were not being afforded the opportunity to dream, to imagine. You have to have vision. You have to see beyond today and imagine it to manifest it. If you don't have that, that manifestation is difficult. I'm not gonna say it's impossible, but it's really difficult.

[7:31] Tamala ALDRIDGE: Bringing interactive theater to this particular population of children is so important because I think it also provides them the coping skills to deal with their medical conditions and their disabilities. Honestly, most of it is not gonna go away. This is something they're going to be dealing with all of their life. Just like I had to learn how to deal with having brown skin and what that means in this country. Their medical condition, their disability is going to be with them. It doesn't have to limit. And the only thing that's not going to place limitation upon them is their own mind, no matter how uniquely it works.

[8:10] Tamala ALDRIDGE: The most important thing for any person, and I would say people period before a young person is when somebody really sees you. And it doesn't have to be, you know, you have this long-term relationship with you. Someone sees you in that moment, sees what you have to offer, and validates it. They can carry you along.

[8:29] Blaine Teamer: Trajectory.

[8:30] Tamala ALDRIDGE: Exactly. Exactly. And no matter what age you are, you should always have an appetite to learn more, to do more. And I think that appetite can only be fed by your imagination. That's why imagination is so important. You know, there's so many people in the world who their imagination was not nurtured. You know, it was you grow up, you go to school, you get a diploma, you get a degree, you get a job. And then if sitting at a job that they're just like, this is what I was told it was supposed to be. I think just allowing, especially children. I never think it's too late for adults. As long as you're breathing, it's never too late. But I just think for children just to plant that seed of discovery, self-discovery, self-empowerment, regardless of any medical condition or disability. What can't I do?

[9:26] Blaine Teamer: Has acting impacted the work that you do, and now being a parent impacted it in a different way?

[9:34] Tamala ALDRIDGE: Yes, acting impacts the work. My acting experience and my acting journey as the executive artistic director, it's my job to oversee the artistic development of our content and to maintain the artistic aesthetic. What I tell the actors, what's most important is listening. I mean, you can come in with a Caribbean accent, a British accent, a German accent, you know, I again, absolutely. But it's so important that you listen to what these young people are offering.

[10:07] Tamala ALDRIDGE: And acting, the biggest thing is listening. People are so, you know, just sitting there waiting to say their line. They're not listening to what's being said to them. You know, the acting comes in the response, not in what you're saying. So the most important thing we do is to really listen to what they're offering us so that then we can include that into the narrative and they actively become a part of the story.

[10:34] Blaine Teamer: Now, are you still doing the virtual aspect of it?

[10:37] Tamala ALDRIDGE: Absolutely. So, yes, we created this virtual platform which was, you know, fantastic. Artists can create anything. The silver lining of that is in 20 years, Only Make Believe was only in New York and Washington, D.C. With virtual programming, we've been able to expand to 11 additional states in pediatric hospitals across the country. Of course, we are going to continue that because I actually think that is the best way forward for expansion during this period right now.

[11:09] Tamala ALDRIDGE: It's just so many unknowns. And as far as our in-person programming, we're probably back in about 65% of our partner facilities where we do in-person live performances. That last 35% is really the hospitals, which I understand with their compliance, you know, they'd rather be safe than sorry to serve children who have compromised immune systems. We also use that time in the pandemic to look at the scripts, which ones still have what I call running legs, and which ones should we retire? And so we went through that because it was about 15 different scripts. We kept maybe four, and then we worked on those four and reimagined because I tell the actors this the great thing about Only Make Believe is it allows you the opportunity, as well as having a gig and engaging with the children and feel like you're offering your gift, it allows you the opportunity to really hone your skills.

So if you're working on a dialect accent, your improvisational skills, you can actually work through that to where if you do get an audition or you get called for something, it's not you staying up all night trying to get this. Because you have opportunities just to do it. And we looked at those scripts and we looked at them through the lens of first of all, COVID precautions. Now that we're back in person, we still keep a distance. We reimagined it through a cultural lens. I think the idea of Only Make Believe and what our founder was able to create is absolutely phenomenal. Some of the points of view in those narratives were culturally insensitive. I know for a fact because I had to figure out how am I gonna act this.

And it'd be okay for the young people who look like me. In these narratives, it's important for me. I and I tell the team, the staff, and the actors now absolutely we want them to have to engage and have a great experience, the 30 to 45 minutes while we're there. What are the embers we're leaving with them? So looking at all of these narratives, what are some of the thoughts and the ideas that we're leaving in them in the room once we leave and in their bodies in their experience that will continue to spark their imagination?

[13:31] Tamala ALDRIDGE: So there was a play we had about the circus, and we basically reimagined it. And it's a young man is the main character, and he's at the circus, but he has a fear of making mistakes, and also, you know, and getting up in front of people, and you know, had an experience with figuring out how to set boundaries for himself with other people. Now, those are very, you know, meta can be meta topics to try to sit and have a discussion with the kid about. We found a way to where in the script, in the circus, dogs come out, puppies come out, and this young man has been bitten by a dog, and he's scared. And the dog handler is saying it's nothing to be scared of. They're puppies, they won't do it. He doesn't want to.

And it's about using that as a moment. It's okay if Mickey doesn't want to come up here and engage with the puppies. And Nikki talks about, you know, I got bit by a dog once. I know it wasn't intentional. He was probably just as nervous as I was, or you know, but I'm just not ready to be around dogs. You can set your own boundaries. Again, that goes back to what my mom taught me. You teach people how to treat you. Right. You see what I'm saying? In that little one scene, the embers that we've left in the room, what boundaries do you need to set for yourself to protect you? That's just a three or four minute scene in the play. What embers do we leave in the room that these young people can build upon as they grow and become and evolve into who they are supposed to be? To create this ember speaking up or saying something in an environment where we're definitely taught not to say anything.

[15:11] Tamala ALDRIDGE: Exactly. It's so vital when we go into the hospital. There are so many biases against us. Serena Williams almost died giving birth. And so if someone with that level of success is at danger going into a hospital, we're all at risk. I can't even imagine what that's like for a child. Very, I mean, it's very vital because you know these are going to be our future leaders. Was the DC board just for the DC location? And then there was another board for New York? We have what we call a national board. And that board is most of them primarily live in New York, but we have a few board members, like one lives in St. Louis, another one relocated to Florida. So that's kind of the national board. DC does have a regional board of board of directors who live here, and their primary focus is to raise awareness and visibility of the program here in DC.

But the national board is really like the governing body of the organization, and they make the decisions across the board for the organization financially. You know, I have to pitch my budget and my ideas to them. The organization is 24 years old, but with the pandemic, really felt like we went back to one. The leadership change happened during the pandemic because I found her retired. I was the executive director with her for a year and a half. I'll be honest with you, she made final decisions. I presented them to her. If she liked them, great. If she didn't, got to go back to the drawing board. But with her leaving, then the responsibility for all of the decision making did lie with me. And again, I had to figure out through Zoom how do I navigate this space where my personality, my point of view, my experience is not reflected with my board and them really, them really buy into what my ideas of how we keep this organization going.

[17:11] Tamala ALDRIDGE: And I just I'm transparent with everyone. So whether that's my board of directors here, which with the exception of two members is all white, I'm transparent and telling them that, you know, when I come to a board meeting, I feel a way about being a person of color at this table, reporting to a table full of white things. We'll have to work together to build how we are going to communicate with one another and to build a level of trust. There are some people who hear it. There are some people immediately say, I don't like her. We were fortunate enough that it was time for us to do a new strategic plan. So we spent a large portion of the pandemic creating this virtual content. But then I was working with the board and creating this strategic plan and having an honest conversation about the organization, how it had been founded and how it had run up until that point.

Just because this is the way we've always done it, doesn't mean that should be the way we can should continue to do it. But I think the strategic planning process we went through, which was it took about a year and a half. Not always an easy process because we had to, this was happening during George Floyd, Black Lives Matter. Right. And we're going to be honest about how we feel. And it wasn't just the board of directors. I also brought in staff members. I brought in actors who shared their honest feelings about, you know, why we kind of have, we had silos, you know, the board did this, the staff does this, the actors do this. And I'm like, you know, we all work together for the same outcome. But we have to figure out how we break down these communication barriers.

[18:58] Tamala ALDRIDGE: And we had some really hard conversations to where, you know, some of the actors, you know, voiced to the board. You kind of have this white savior complex. Right. Or why does our board not reflect the population we serve? We have more diversity in our staff and our acting company than we do our board. So, you know, and the feeling of I don't want to feel like I'm coming here reporting to overseers. Again, we almost created our own language about how we talk about what it is we do because words are important. So, you know, those weren't easy conversations to have because you know, people get on defensive. You know, I can't, I can't ask them to be sensitive to my feelings if I'm going to be insensitive to theirs.

My daughter came home one day from school and she said, we were watching something, something happened on the news. And she said, Oh, that's a Karen. I said, What? That's a Karen. I said, What is a Karen? A Karen is a white woman. And I said, Well, then pump your brakes. I said, Because people make bad choices, have all kinds of skin colors. Right. I said, but I don't want you thinking it's all right to call her Karen because I don't want somebody to think it's all right to call you the N word. Let's have the conversation and then let's try to move forward. Because of course you knew what a Karen was. You just wanted to open up the conversation.

[20:18] Tamala ALDRIDGE: Open up the conversation. Right. Who you think that is. You know, I don't want her to then view every person that she comes across that does not have black or brown skin, they the enemy. Because then again, that's putting up walls in your mind. The person that helped me get to the point where I am, was it my family? Absolutely. But I will always still credit that drama teacher in high school. And if I had a fear of white people or hatred of white people, that would have limited my experience. Bad things happen. We're gonna have bad experiences. Bad behavior still exists rather than trying to lump it all together, like they try to lump all black folk together, and then you know, we carry the burden of our race on our shoulders every time we walk.

It's unfortunate that we're our world is in a place now where these conversations are more prevalent, these instances are happening, they've always been happening. It's just we recording them now, right? Right. We were you know talking about the policeman letting I don't know if you know about the canine loose on the black man, and she was like, Mommy, why would he do that? And I said, bad behavior. I said, Now, is he a racist? I said, you know, I don't know that name in my spirit. I might feel a certain way, but I don't know that name. But that was bad behavior, dangerous behavior.

[21:45] Tamala ALDRIDGE: I think at this point, my board members, they're used to me and they're comfortable maybe, and I'm comfortable with them. It wasn't always that way. I feel like I can be my genuine authentic self when I say something. Right, and that's priceless, and priceless. Everybody complains about the board, the board this, the board that, and I'm like, yeah, you know, the board has their issues, staff has their issues, everybody got issues, right?

[22:09] Tamala ALDRIDGE: But what I will say, because we had some board members who left the organization during the pandemic, whether it was their own financial reasons, whether it was maybe they were there for the founder, not there for the mission, right? Yeah, we lost quite a few, and at the end of the day, that was a big impact on the budget bottom line, right? But the ones who stayed, who trusted, who joined hands with me in partnership, we're gonna get through this, right? What do you think, Tamil?

[22:40] Tamala ALDRIDGE: That's I said I work with other EDs, I haven't a cohort of other executive directors. They don't have that. So is this board perfect? Absolutely not. But when I tell you they are partners in our mission in our cause, we have to respect that because at the end of the day, they're volunteers. They're volunteers, right? But we still have to be intentional. So yes, haven't let that go yet. Won't let it go because then I feel like I'm not doing my job.

[23:08] Tamala ALDRIDGE: I interviewed Leslie Ito, who's the executive director of the armory, which is an art museum in Pasadena. What she did going in as their director is she had to have those trainings, conversations continuously. It's something that has to be taught on an ongoing basis. And she talked about cultural equity. And so, unless you have people all throughout the organization at all different levels that are representative, you're going to have those same conversations that are going to happen over and over again. That's going to be part of your job.

[23:42] Tamala ALDRIDGE: Most executive directors, you inherit what's here when you get to the position. Right. You know, if you're long enough to have any longevity in the position, you can possibly turn that board over and bring in people. And once their onboarding process is giving them the proper language of how we speak about what it is we do. It is about the DEI trainings, you know. But for most, you know, most of us who are EDs right now, we inherited our boards of directors. Right. I agree with her. It is, it's not one conversation and done. And it is about how do we our board has a specific, you know, give or get, you know, you gotta get at least this much money or give it to be one of the board of directors.

[24:30] Tamala ALDRIDGE: And I said to me, that's a barrier for people who have something to offer this organization to become involved in it on this level. We have to broaden our perspectives and our own networks. You know, if you're just gonna bring in board members or potential board prospects from your network of friends, is the makeup is going to stay the same. Right. So we have to actively go out. Right. And with intention. With intention. With intention. We are looking specifically for people of color. I don't think there's anything wrong with saying that. That reflect the populations we serve.

[25:09] Tamala ALDRIDGE: One person's Rolodex can be a lot more powerful than somebody writing a check for whatever block of money. There's no way a teacher in special education can do a give or get at our level. But you don't think that she has experience or network that could be helpful to this organization? No, because you don't see it on the page. Right, right. You don't see it on page of what they can bring. We have to be intentional and diversifying our board of directors. What is the organization looking for and need moving forward?

[25:44] Tamala ALDRIDGE: Well, as many nonprofits, you know, we need financial support to continue expanding to hospitals nationwide. And we also need volunteers. One thing we didn't talk about is that, you know, when our actors come in to do these performances, they come with a trunk that's full of costumes that we give to the children that they wear during the performance, but they also get to keep because we know these children are gonna experience challenging days coming down the you know the pipe. And we hope that when they have a challenging day, they can put on that costume that they wore through that Only Make Believe show, and it will give them the fortitude that they need to go to get over this hurdle and then the next hurdle until they no longer need it.

[26:27] Tamala ALDRIDGE: Was there a person in your life when you were younger who got you interested in theater? The person who really got who ignited my passion for theater was my high school drama teacher, a white woman from Texas. She saw something in me that not only you know does she have this, you know, outgoing gregarious personality, but she really has something here. Right. Let me let me let me nurture that. And you know, she gave me a monologue. She didn't give me a monologue from A Raisin in the Sun. You know, she didn't give me a Maya Angelou poem. What else is there? Yeah, she gave me Antigone, Greek. Right, right. Learn it.

[27:11] Tamala ALDRIDGE: Do you remember the teacher's name? Yes, Brenda Prothrop, P-R-O-T-H-R-O. She's my drama teacher in high school. And is she still with us? Yes, she's still with us. I still communicate with her on Facebook. Well, shout out to Miss Brenda. And was there beyond that? Was there a show that you saw that shifted you and changed your life to want to be an actress? Yes. And it coincided with me going into high school. There was a touring version of Dreamgirls again. And the church took the youth group. When I tell you mine was blown, edges was back, and I came home and I told my mom and my dad about Dreamgirls, and she told him she wasn't going. And my mother was just like, I hate how did you go see it.

[28:03] Tamala ALDRIDGE: I said, Mom, I said, and these were black people. And when I tell you they could sing, but they were good actors, they could dance. You know, just the just that Dreamgirls blew my mind to this day. And we were fortunate enough that we got to speak to some of the cast members afterwards. And I saw that they were just regular people. And I remember the Ebony magazine. Oh, absolutely. And I got the cassette with the cell. So I knew all the music when I went. I had the album. Oh I I knew it from front to back. It was a game changer. It was a game changer. It was a game changer. And it just it blew my it blew my young mind. Wow. I was like, wow, I I would love to do that.

[28:47] Tamala ALDRIDGE: And then as I'm going to high school and I just take a drama class. And at that point, I'm thinking drama is just what I said, memorizing a Maya Angelou poem and saying it because that's what they would have me do at church. Or, you know, whether it was the Easter program, doing a scripture, the Christmas program, and acting the nativity scene or the final program from vacation Bible school. You know, I was always doing that. You've done theater. Is there a preference? I love theater. I love residuals from television. I didn't know. And I think that's some phenomenal acting that does happen on film. You know, with theater, it can be as big and as broad as you want it or need it to be, and it's okay.

[29:30] Tamala ALDRIDGE: Television and film, there has to be such nuance to what you're doing. Right. And to see people who really honed that skill is it's exciting. Yeah. There nothing beats a live performance in front of an audience because you're not only are you feeding off your fellow cast members, you're feeding off the energy that's in that space. Nothing can beat that. A couple of years ago, it was the most recent stage version of The Color Purple. Jennifer Hudson was Shug and Cynthia Erivo was Celie. I don't know if you had a chance to see it. Yes, I did. And we've all seen The Color Purple a thousand times. You get the black card snatched if you haven't if you don't know The Color Purple. Were we crying? Oh no, we were bawling. That wasn't crying, that was sobbing, weak.

[30:21] Tamala ALDRIDGE: So much so I took my husband to see it on Broadway. My husband, he would tell you the only theater I like seeing is what my wife is in. It is otherwise it's not for me. But I was like, Tim, I have to see this. Come, let's see. She got to that part, and I'm here where she said, I'm beautiful. Boy, I know it might be. Yes, sure. I said, Boy, this ain't church. It is. It is mock. It was an experience for him. And he still talks about that to this day. Her voice traveled through our bodies. Right, yeah. It was nothing like that. And the stage was simplified. And then that's when it really becomes about the craft. Absolutely. You know, we all saw it in the movie. Pride in the movie. We cried in the movie. We know how this is gonna end. So why am I still sitting up here trying to kind of muffle my cry? I we knew this was gonna happen. They're making it real right in front of me.

[31:20] Tamala ALDRIDGE: Yeah. I have kept you way longer. It doesn't feel like you're blame. Exactly. These are the conversations that I really enjoy having with people and hearing what they're passionate about and how they do it. And I think other people need to hear this is what she has to go through. We're all trying to figure out how to have those conversations and be gracious and you know, still keep everybody together. Exactly. And that's really a lot. It's hard. That's really hard. It's really hard. But I find if you lead with grace and you hey, treat people how you want to be treated, and you teach people how to treat you in the last 10 years. I think that's what I've embraced.

[32:04] Blaine Teamer: Now that you have heard the story. Thank you for joining us for another episode of the Afro-Existential Podcast. The art of appreciation is lost in this world of dog eat dog. Please click the subscribe button and take a moment to visit our website at AfroEXPodcast.com for more insightful content. You can follow us on Instagram at the Afro EX Theater. And email us your thoughts and questions at the Afro Existential Podcast at gmail.com.

[32:41] Blaine Teamer: Anything else? A special thank you to our special guest, Executive Artistic Director of Only Make Believe, TAMAL Aldridge. To find out more about the organization, visit them at www.onlymakebelieve.org. Oh, yes. And as always, have a great day on purpose. All right. But please remember the Afro-Existential Podcast is part of the Broadway Podcast Network. Hey!