This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:01] Leslie Ito: Ladies and gentlemen, we invite your apprehensive listeners. Who are you? What are you doing here? The AMORY Center for the Arts is located in Pasadena. We teach arts education and creativity to people of all ages on site in our studio, as well as in schools, community centers, park and rec centers, and in the juvenile justice system. Everything is filtered through the lens of cultural equity, which means that we adjust our language that we're using, our approach, our decision making. We acknowledge the oppression and the institutional privilege that the organization has had and has benefited from. And that we're making a commitment to leverage that privilege to create a more just world in the areas that we have control. It's also recognizing assumptions about who belongs, what belonging means, and how do we create a welcoming environment where everybody feels like they belong.

[1:15] Leslie Ito: Hi, I'm Leslie Ito, Executive Director of the AMORY Center for the Arts, and you're listening to the Afro-Existential Podcast on Broadway Podcast Network.

[1:28] Indira G. Wilson: Welcome to the Afro-Existential Podcast. I am one of your hosts, Indira G. Wilson.

[1:33] Blaine Teamer: And I'm Blaine Teamer. Now tell me, uh what's so special about tonight? This season we'll be presenting a new interview series entitled The Breakthrough from Vision to Fruition. In this series, we hear from people who took a great idea and made it a reality. We want to know how they did it and how they got over the obstacles along the way. We hope that it helps and inspires you to make your great idea a reality.

[1:56] Indira G. Wilson: Oh yes. In this episode, we're talking with AMORY Center for the Arts, executive director Leslie Ito about the importance of cultural equity and why she made it a priority at the art organization.

[2:06] Blaine Teamer: Oh, how interesting. And we'll be right back after a brief commercial break.

[2:14] Alistair Justin Black: Hello. I'm Alistair Justin Black from Theatre in the Black. Playwright Blaine Teamer began writing DEAD WAIT in 2016. He finished it nearly four months later. The writing of the perfect line in a great play, or the making of a line of fine fancy wines takes time. Perfect example is Afro Eggs' new and improved bougie bouger. A red wine with notes of tang, green apple, tropical punch, black cherry, and invisible grape. It's a fancy wine for those fancy moments. What was true nearly four months ago is true today. It's five o'clock somewhere. Take life one sip at a time.

[3:06] Blaine Teamer: And we're back. Founded in 1989, AMORY Center for the Arts has a respected contemporary art exhibitions program and offers artist-taught classes for children, teens, families, and adults. Armory's executive director is Leslie Ito. Ito's reputation for cultural bridge building and advocacy underscores her deep commitment to art equity and access for all people. I had the pleasure to talk with Leslie about AMORY Center for the Arts and their commitment to cultural equity. The AMORY Center for the Arts is located in Pasadena, and our mission is to build on the power of art to transform lives and communities through creating, teaching, and presenting the arts. And we're a leader in contemporary art exhibitions and community arts education, which means that we teach arts education and creativity to people of all ages on site in our studio, as well as in schools, community centers, park and rec centers, and in the juvenile justice system.

[4:11] Leslie Ito: Yeah, we've been um we have a staff and board committee that's been working for about eight months on our mission and the vision for the organization. And what I can say right now about that transition is it's not gonna change at its core, but it will layer in more social justice-based values into the statement, being much more explicit about who is at the sweet spot of what we're trying to do. Um we have lot have had lots of conversations about where we're serving, who our constituents are and where they're coming from. We've been exploring all of those things. And I think this is a really critical moment for the organization. And it's a really critical moment within the context that we're working in and the world that we're living in and the people that we're trying to serve.

So what I mean by that been having lots of conversations around cultural equity work, how to adjust our language that we're using, our approach, our decision making, and it's what I have found is that it's a moment of undoing and it's a moment of creation as well. And that is really exciting for me. I would say that a good 50% of my work in the last three plus years that I've been in my new position is really about undoing and really looking at how we're making decisions, who's making the decisions and how do we build better, more equitable processes to support our work and looking towards a world where the arts are provided for more people and in a more equitable manner.

[6:06] Leslie Ito: I really wanted to make sure that we didn't just adopt a policy but that this was something that the board and the staff and the organization were really gonna embrace and take to heart and implement on a day-to-day basis but also across the organization. So you know it's things like you know dedicating ourselves to providing safe spaces that are creative and inclusive and how give a positive experience for everyone regardless of who they are and where they've come from that we acknowledge the oppression and the institutional privilege that the organization has had and has benefited from and that we're making a commitment to leverage that privilege to create a more just world in the areas that we have control over and that we can make change in.

It's also recognizing assumptions about who belongs, what belonging means, and how do we create a welcoming environment where everybody feels like they belong. The nitty-gritty pieces of like how do we operationalize this policy to ensure that our hiring practices, how we're investing our capital, everything is filtered through the lens of cultural equity. Is it's really important to our organization. So I think there are a lot of arts organizations out there that are checking off the box. It's ruffling some feathers at the board level. They didn't really understand what cultural equity meant and they weren't given the tools and the training to really help them understand. We're kind of taking it next level.

Like this is not just about who we're serving and the content that we're providing, but it's about our infrastructure and how we're making decisions and who we're engaging inside and outside of the organization.

[8:07] Indira G. Wilson: You're right. It feels like a lot of times companies and organizations, especially around what happened with George Floyd. Everybody got on the bandwagon.

[8:15] Blaine Teamer: Yeah.

[8:16] Indira G. Wilson: To kind of say we're doing like we have to be doing better. I think part of it felt like doing better was having like a um an in-service or a you know, some kind of committee to have a discussion and you bring a speaker in and get everybody hyped up. And then for a lot of people, I think it should stop there, like we did, you know, we're now aware of what's going on. Then done what's the next thing. So I think that the AMORY, especially at the staff level, we're really doing, you know, diversity, equity and inclusion like 2.0. It's gone beyond just the basics of like what does, you know, what does it mean to be anti-racist? Um, you know, what are what are the systems and the in how does institutionalized racism show up?

We're doing that because everybody is kind of at a different place in their journey and we we recognize that. But we're also looking at community organizing training, all of our staff have gone through community organizing training because I realized that the training that I've had and where I come from is very much from a community organizing model and you know there are values within that training that I wanted to center within the organization and we all needed to have sort of that baseline understanding with those with those values and those strategies in mind.

[9:39] Leslie Ito: So whether you're raising money in the organization or you're running a program that relies on community members and community leaders, having the baseline of how to work with other people and pulling yourself and the organization out from the center and really building deep partnerships was really important and I realized that that was really grounded for me in community organizing. The other thing that we've done in terms of training is we just finished a bystander training as well as de-escalation training. I see it as part of our cultural equity and DEI work, but that's not traditionally what people think of but it's important for us to know like if we see something happening to somebody that is inequitable or is inciting violence because of who they are, we need to be able to know how to respond to that and how to how to support one another. That is also to me what cultural equity and you know diversity, equity and inclusion work is all about. And so often experts come in and say, oh, this is what the problem is.

[10:52] Leslie Ito: This is what the fix is, because I use this fix in Texas and Philadelphia. So this will work here without having any discussions with the people that you're trying to help. You know, like you were just describing, like there's so many things that people overlook and don't think about or consider when they're trying to be more inclusive. It's not just like one presentation, it's so many different things. It's so interesting because it makes so much sense to do all of this. You know what it's like? It's like when I don't know what this happens at your organization, but there's like a new program on the computer, or like the computer gets upgraded and everybody has to learn the new system. And everybody's like so resistant to like learning. Like, why do we gotta change? I like, you know, 1.0. Why do we have to say you have to like really like and then once you start doing you're like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I used a typewriter all these years.

[11:50] Indira G. Wilson: I see your typewriter. I've got one back here behind me as well.

[11:55] Leslie Ito: I love that. Yeah, I you know, I think you're absolutely right. Those transitions from one phase to another are really tough. And so, you know, finding a way to help people along is really important. And you know, I have to stop myself because there are some days where I I'm just impatient. Like I feel like, oh, we've been at this for 60 years, you know, and you know, why is this taking so long? It enough is enough. Those are the days where I'm just, you know, impatient. I need to take a breath and like, okay, this is like one foot in front of the other. I did come in thinking that I was gonna my primary role in taking this position was yes, to run an arts organization. But I also came in with the idea that I wanted to make a difference in the city that I was born and raised in that has very, very deep and very complicated relation with race. But what I didn't expect was for all of my energy to be put into fighting, trying to help an organization survive a global pandemic.

[13:13] Leslie Ito: So I was reserving all of that energy to work on, you know, where are the areas where I can make a difference in pushing us forward on the racial justice issues in the city of Pasadena? Because, you know, this is where my family has been for 75 years, and I don't think we've done a great job of recognizing and then looking at what needs to be undone. Um and I think you know, there are definitely reasons why we haven't had those, you know, why those conversations, you know, are still at such nascent stages.

[13:47] Indira G. Wilson: How long had you been there when the pandemic kicked in?

[13:50] Leslie Ito: I was at the AMORY about a year and a half before the pandemic hit in. You know, I was just starting to understand the full operations to get my footing, and then the pandemic hit. So we had to quickly shift from being an all-in-person organization where teaching community-based arts education really happened in a classroom or inside the juvenile detention halls in our studio to being online. You know, we opened a Zoom account and we did the best that we could. And I'm really, really proud of our team and our teaching artists that were able to pivot so quickly to be able to, you know, really make sure that we were still there for our community who needed the arts even more in their lives than they probably ever knew that they needed it to continue to keep their souls enriched and keep themselves creative and content.

[14:51] Leslie Ito: You know, there were some instances where this is a great example. Um there were a group of seniors, older adults that we were working with, and they didn't have access to computers and smartphones and didn't know how to use Zoom. So we started doing um instruction by phone. So we would take the art supplies, drop it off at their doorsteps, and hop on the phone, and the teaching artist would walk them through lessons via phone, and we did a little bit of that in the halls as well, the juvenile detention centers, because there was some technology issues that we were dealing with over there as well. So it was, you know, art by any means necessary, whatever tools we had in our hands we used. Um, and this is a cute story.

That older adult class um eventually moved to Zoom and everyone got on iPads and smartphones, and they were actually seeing each other make art together, and they were so connected by that. Um, there was one gentleman who his internet went out and he hopped in his car and he drove to Best Buy and he finished the rest of the class on an iPad at Best Buy.

[16:09] Indira G. Wilson: I love that story.

[16:10] Leslie Ito: It shows the creativity and the eagerness and the necessity that the students feel about being connected and having that creative space. Do you think that this will type of thing will continue after the pandemic? Because it seems like it opens it up to a bigger audience.

[16:29] Leslie Ito: You know, I think that was our thought maybe six months ago, but right now, at this moment, what we're finding is that people are so eager to be in person that we're finding very little traction online right now. But I think it's just the pendulum swinging, and I think that my prediction is that it'll kind of even out and we will return to maybe a balance of both approaches.

[16:56] Indira G. Wilson: Definitely seems like it it's an innovation that can be complementary where you can do both.

[17:02] Leslie Ito: Yeah, I think it's definitely a tool for a different kind of engagement. And I think they're you know, like any tool, you decide do I need a hammer or do I need a screwdriver? You know, it's like there's some instances where you need one versus the other. But did you have any kind of epiphany or breakthrough? You know, my motto as of recent days, um, particularly as Omicron set in um in like late December, early January. My motto has become, you know, we're doing the best that we can given the circumstances that we've been handed, and that's all we can ask of ourselves, and that's all we can ask of each other. And if we stay in that zone, you know, I think we can't we can't ask for any more than that. We're doing our best. That's plenty fine. I tend to be hard on myself. Um, so I'm trying to create that space for being forgiving to myself. I can only do, you know, my best, and there's so many things outside of our control right now.

[18:08] Leslie Ito: At least for me, you experience something, and it's one of those, and I don't know if there's a name for it where you're shocked, but it's not anything new. It's almost like you're shocked that you're shocked about it. I don't know if there's a name for that, but that's like a phenomenon, right?

[18:22] Indira G. Wilson: Yeah, yeah.

[18:23] Leslie Ito: What is that? You gotta come up with the code.

[18:25] Indira G. Wilson: I gotta go up the term, right? I gotta think about all this stuff keeps on happening over and over again.

[18:31] Leslie Ito: Yeah. And yeah, and so often we're all, especially people of color, like we we some reason buy into like the fantasy version of America.

[18:41] Indira G. Wilson: Mm-hmm.

[18:42] Leslie Ito: Like all like the kind of clichés.

[18:44] Indira G. Wilson: Yeah.

[18:44] Leslie Ito: But then we're experiencing something totally different individually. Oh no, there's all these other kind of factors that are going into play that we're really not kind of prepared to navigate. Because first of all, I don't think we have those conversations with each other.

[19:00] Indira G. Wilson: Yeah.

[19:00] Leslie Ito: My thought was like, oh, we need to work together and figure out well, what do you do in that situation when someone says something like that? Or what do you do when you know that somebody is getting paid more than you? Yeah, I wish I could like somebody needs that someone needs to teach a course on. Like, how do you it you know, usually I'm so stuck in like getting mad or frustrated or questioning myself about like what is this what is this really? Like what just happened? And I'm so stuck in that mode that I'm not able to be like and and like have that, you know, very strategic yet witty and like you know, push them back.

[19:44] Indira G. Wilson: I feel like it's almost like we need to have like um post-its, yeah.

[19:49] Leslie Ito: Or little business cards with like little things that when those things happen, okay, this is what I can say when someone's making up some kind of story. It's almost like when you go into the um to get a car, you know they're gonna upsell you.

[20:01] Indira G. Wilson: Yeah.

[20:02] Leslie Ito: And so you really prepare yourself.

[20:04] Indira G. Wilson: Mm-hmm.

[20:04] Leslie Ito: Right. You've done all your research. Yeah. Maybe I'll come with somebody, maybe I'll go to these different like you plan it out because we know that's supposed to happen. But then when we go to the doctor's office, when we go to all these other places where we get so upset, like we're never we're just going in blind almost.

[20:22] Indira G. Wilson: Yeah, yeah.

[20:23] Leslie Ito: And you know, the thing that that really riles me up is that, and you know, I just need to get over this, but that all of that preparation and that like what am I gonna say is sometimes causes paralysis, sometimes, you know, is so much emotional and mental energy that we come out super drained. You know, and then I think about like especially white men, like breeze through life without having to think about any of it.

[20:47] Indira G. Wilson: Right.

[20:56] Leslie Ito: And that's where that's where our like how do we beat that? Like, how do we every time I go in for a job negotiation? My husband gives me like a you know, uh he's my cheerleader pep talk, and he's like, You go in there and you negotiate like a white man, and I'm like, you know what will will there ever be a day where I can negotiate as me as based upon your qualifications have to think like somebody else to you know work the system.

[21:27] Indira G. Wilson: Um no yeah I need to get over that's the thing yeah it's like no like not I don't think in our lifetime and it may at some point but not like today or tomorrow.

[21:39] Leslie Ito: Yeah. And so in the meantime between baby steps, right?

[21:43] Indira G. Wilson: Well I don't even know if the baby is up and walking yet.

[21:46] Leslie Ito: It's like I think it's just like we need to prepare for the baby coming.

[21:53] Indira G. Wilson: Yeah's not here yet, right?

[21:55] Leslie Ito: And so how do you prepare for that baby? Yeah, I mean I think I think in hiring like I'm thinking about how important representation is even in these situations because in hiring I think what happens is can we envision this person in this role? And if there hasn't been a history like if this is something new, no we can't envision it.

[22:18] Indira G. Wilson: Right it's just not gonna happen.

[22:18] Leslie Ito: Right. It's just not gonna happen.

[22:20] Indira G. Wilson: Right.

[22:21] Leslie Ito: I think all of these things are tied together. You my wheels are like really turning now. You really got me going here well I think it's you know it's it these interviews are so interesting because I think so many people and what I love about them so many people come in with like their press release of what who they are and what they do and you know, I feel like anybody can read that off of a website.

[22:48] Indira G. Wilson: Yeah.

[22:48] Leslie Ito: But I'm really interested in for anyone that listens to this is like we're like real people dealing with real things, and this is how we figured it. This is we figured out this little piece. I had this kind of epiphany that really helped me to do X, Y, and Z. And so I feel like by sharing how we do those things, someone is listening going through the exact same thing.

[23:14] Indira G. Wilson: Yeah.

[23:14] Leslie Ito: They were dealing with this back then. And this is how Leslie figured it out.

[23:19] Indira G. Wilson: Yeah.

[23:19] Leslie Ito: And so I feel like those are the things that that make these conversations like so kind of interesting to kind of get through it successfully. Two things that this first for me is one is is about that envisioning, like being able to see somebody that looks like you or talks like you or has an experience like you helps you envision what is possible.

[23:43] Indira G. Wilson: Role modeling and representation can come in all different forms and sizes to be able to connect with different people.

[23:51] Leslie Ito: This is such a fascinating conversation and it's going off in a whole different direction.

[23:55] Indira G. Wilson: I know.

[23:55] Leslie Ito: I know you know what I'm thinking? I'm thinking, oh my gosh, I need to have Frederick and Blaine over for dinner.

[24:03] Indira G. Wilson: Oh, or vice versa, yeah.

[24:05] Leslie Ito: Just to hang out and have these awesome conversations. And it's so funny because it was almost like the first thing that you said. I'm like, oh damn, this is gonna go in a whole different because I know exactly what she's talking about.

[24:20] Indira G. Wilson: Well, this has been such a great I don't know how I'm gonna edit this.

[24:24] Leslie Ito: I know, uh uh is there anything here?

[24:27] Indira G. Wilson: It was fun.

[24:28] Leslie Ito: No, it's all fantastic. It's all and like these are the conversations that I love to have because it's it's it's just a real conversation.

[24:37] Indira G. Wilson: Yeah, and I feel like it's so important and so insightful. The questions are just like a little map, but it can take us anywhere that we really need to go.

[24:45] Leslie Ito: And Indira and I will be right back with a round of would you rather after a brief commercial break.

[24:51] Indira G. Wilson: Yes, it'll be like a room time, darling.

[24:54] Leslie Ito: Every day I struggle with Karen.

[24:57] Indira G. Wilson: I don't wanna have to struggle with my hair.

[25:00] Leslie Ito: Get new and improved Afroexistential sheen shampoo and reconditioner.

[25:07] Indira G. Wilson: Oh.

[25:08] Leslie Ito: It goes deep into your roots and uncovers the natural beauty that's been there all the time.

[25:14] Indira G. Wilson: Yeah.

[25:15] Leslie Ito: Every day I live the struggle. I don't wanna have to struggle with my hair. And for added projection on those caring days, there's Afro Existential Sheen Super Holding Hair Spray.

[25:28] Indira G. Wilson: A protein-based hairspray that holds your hair back, but won't hold you back.

[25:35] Leslie Ito: I don't even have to take my earrings off.

[25:38] Indira G. Wilson: I hate to think where I'd be without it.

[25:41] Leslie Ito: Afro existential sheen shampoo, reconditioner, and relaxer. Get it today. Your roots will thank you.

[25:50] Indira G. Wilson: And that's no lie.

[25:52] Leslie Ito: Oh what?

[25:56] Indira G. Wilson: What is it?

[25:57] Leslie Ito: Here it comes from the Studio Fox Dinner Theater in El Segundo, California. It's time for the Afro Existential Podcast Game Show.

[26:08] Indira G. Wilson: Where knowledge is power.

[26:10] Leslie Ito: Would you rather use something?

[26:13] Indira G. Wilson: What's wrong with you?

[26:15] Leslie Ito: Sparkle or mahogany.

[26:17] Indira G. Wilson: Oh Mahogany? That's like my favorite movie of all time.

[26:23] Leslie Ito: I cannot get enough. As a matter of fact, that's gonna be what I'm gonna watch tonight.

[26:27] Indira G. Wilson: Is Mahogany.

[26:28] Leslie Ito: I laugh, I cry, I am with her.

[26:31] Indira G. Wilson: I came to give my man whatever she says.

[26:34] Leslie Ito: You know, Billy D. Williams is fine as wine. You know, I am so there for mahogany.

[26:42] Indira G. Wilson: Oh yeah.

[26:43] Leslie Ito: Over and over sparkle. I threw, I didn't put the whiz in, I put in spark.

[26:46] Indira G. Wilson: I didn't know how you felt about Sparkle.

[26:48] Leslie Ito: The original Sparkle with Irene Cara.

[26:50] Indira G. Wilson: Yeah, yeah.

[26:51] Leslie Ito: I mean, good great movie, of course, but no mahogany, mahogany, Diana Ross.

[26:55] Indira G. Wilson: Okay.

[26:56] Leslie Ito: All right. I told you we're gonna remake that movie with you when it we're gonna call it Birch.

[27:01] Indira G. Wilson: That's only funny if you know what if you know how light Indira is.

[27:04] Leslie Ito: We're gonna call it Birch.

[27:08] Indira G. Wilson: Google me.

[27:09] Leslie Ito: Google me.

[27:11] Indira G. Wilson: You can truly see how correct he is.

[27:14] Leslie Ito: Pine.

[27:15] Indira G. Wilson: Pine.

[27:21] Leslie Ito: Oh my god.

[27:25] Indira G. Wilson: Pre-stained wood.

[27:32] Leslie Ito: Stacey Laddisau, Sheryl Pepsi Riley.

[27:35] Indira G. Wilson: So hard, but so hard.

[27:38] Leslie Ito: Oh, I'd probably say Sherwich Riley.

[27:41] Indira G. Wilson: Cheryl Pepsi Riley is a sneaker because it's so many songs that you don't. First of all, Baby Doll went with Pepsi as her middle name. Somebody, some family member called Cheryl Bridget Riley Pepsi, which just look, you know, you just you just killing it. You killing the game already.

[28:02] Leslie Ito: Number one. You're number one.

[28:04] Indira G. Wilson: Oh no. I don't have no nicknames like Pepsi. I mean, you know, and you don't have no choice but to grow up like my name is Cheryl, but they call me Pepsi. You know what I'm saying? That's like being called niecy or Peaches.

[28:17] Leslie Ito: It's great.

[28:19] Indira G. Wilson: It's great. And your name is nothing close to Nisi or Peaches.

[28:23] Leslie Ito: Let's see. Hold on saying. Um you're not looking up her her her her catalog already.

[28:29] Indira G. Wilson: Right.

[28:29] Leslie Ito: Thanks for my child. That's it. It's not. I'm just trying to remember, Cheryl.

[28:37] Indira G. Wilson: Don't call this podcast.

[28:38] Leslie Ito: I found love on a two-way street, or it takes two to make a thing go right.

[28:43] Indira G. Wilson: This wait. You told me it takes two to make a thing go right.

[28:46] Leslie Ito: Like the uh raw basic.

[28:49] Indira G. Wilson: Yeah, or I found love on a two way. Or Stacy Laddersong.

[28:52] Leslie Ito: Oh, it takes two to make a thing go right.

[28:57] Indira G. Wilson: When I was if you when that song came out, I harassed my grandmother for weeks that I needed to have a party. Like there wasn't even any. That's all I knew is that it takes two, and I needed to be doing, you know, I need I had to be dancing.

[29:18] Leslie Ito: And I and my grandmother finally relented. I was not a I was not a birthday party having kid. You know, this this lady wasn't throwing parties every week for me, right? So random party, not my birthday, had to happen because a raw basis, it takes two to make a thing go right.

[29:36] Indira G. Wilson: Okay.

[29:37] Leslie Ito: So I harassed her, and then she let me have a party and would only let me have it in our basement, which we had the cement stairs down to the basement in Ohio.

[29:49] Indira G. Wilson: And I had an Ohio basement.

[29:52] Leslie Ito: We didn't have one of these remade Atlanta basements. We had a cellar. It was like a cellar, it was beyond a cellar. You know what I'm saying? It was concrete floors. It was meant to catch the water draining from the from the washing machine.

[30:07] Indira G. Wilson: My mama probably had wash going during the unex completely exposed cobweb ceilings. Just it's all coming back to me. We had a boom box play it, playing tapes, right? And I and then she would only let people come through the concrete stairs down into the basement.

[30:29] Indira G. Wilson: I don't know how long it was, but people came to this party in my basement. It's the craziest thing. And like our old furniture was on the other side of the stairs. You know how the stairs came down from the center of the house. So you had the one side with the furnace, right?

[30:47] Leslie Ito: That I think I made it to like a little party pad. And I would play down there. I'll play in this old ass basement. And then on the other side with the washing machine and the boiler was a dance floor.

[31:00] Indira G. Wilson: I mean, you remember this? You remember this?

[31:01] Leslie Ito: I can't remember what it was called. I want parties. I would be at a dancing. I had some hands.

[31:11] Indira G. Wilson: Oh my God.

[31:13] Leslie Ito: I mean, you know, the running man, the whole delay. We was kicking it. We was doing it because of raw basis. It takes two to make a thing go right. I could sing it. I know the whole song.

[31:22] Indira G. Wilson: Burbatum.

[31:28] Leslie Ito: So you're saying your choice would be it takes two to make a thing go right?

[31:33] Indira G. Wilson: No.

[31:35] Leslie Ito: Yes.

[31:36] Indira G. Wilson: Oh my God.

[31:38] Leslie Ito: We are so glad you joined us for another episode of the Afro Existential Podcast.

[31:44] Indira G. Wilson: Email us your comments or questions at Afroexpodcast at gmail.com.

[31:50] Leslie Ito: And take a moment to visit us at our website, Afro EXPodcast.com for more fun and insightful content.

[31:57] Indira G. Wilson: Email us your comments or questions at AfroExpodcast at gmail.com.

[32:03] Leslie Ito: Anything else? And follow us on Instagram at the AfroEX Theater.

[32:09] Indira G. Wilson: Anything else? And a special thank you to our guest, Leslie Ito. You can find out more about the AMORY at ArmoryArts.org.

[32:17] Leslie Ito: That's A-R-M-O-R-Y-A-R-T-S.org.

[32:22] Indira G. Wilson: Anything else? Again, thank you for joining us. And as always, have a great day on purpose.

[32:27] Leslie Ito: I accept your challenge. The Afro Existential Podcast is part of the Broadway Podcast Network.