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[0:01] Indira G. Wilson: Ladies and gentlemen, we invite your apprehensive listener. Here it comes. The Afro-Existential Podcast presents. That's what we want to know. And playing today is our special guest, author KITT SHAPIRO.

[0:15] KITT SHAPIRO: Okay, go. What was your mother's favorite song to sing? Either "I Will Survive" or "Here's to Life." What is your favorite Eartha Kitt song to hear? There's a Spanish album that she did, and on that Spanish album is a song called "Angelitos Negros." I just loved her interpretation of that song. What was your mother's signature dish? Oh, collard greens. What was the secret? What was the secret? What was the meat? There was no meat. If there was meat, it was bacon. It was olive oil and garlic and sea salt. And she would say in a lot of love. I'm gonna make some collard greens tonight. What's your signature dish? Huh. I'm ordering in something. I'm happy. Shout out the restaurant. It's that's okay.

My husband said to me, my husband said to me the night goes, When was the last time you ever cooked a dish? And I'm like, I don't know. I always sure the kids were home at the time. Now might you have to remember my children are 30. I haven't been home for a long time. What is your name? I'm KITT SHAPIRO, the author of "Eartha & Kitt: A Daughter’s Love Story in Black and White." But check this out. And you're listening to the Afro-Existential Podcast on the Broadway Podcast Network.

[1:35] Indira G. Wilson: Welcome to the Afro-Existential Podcast, a podcast and audio play in one. I am one of your hosts, Indira G. Wilson.

[1:41] Blaine Teamer: And I'm Blaine Teamer. I was afraid of that. This season we'll be presenting a brand new audio play entitled "Pandora's Tronk" and a new interview series entitled "The Breakthrough: From Vision to Fruition." In this series, we hear from people who took a great idea and made it a reality. We want to know how they did it and how they got over the obstacles along the way. We hope that it helps and inspires you to make your great idea a reality. But before we go to commercial, here's an excerpt of our audio play, "Dead Weight." In this scene, Brady's wife Georgina and his son Oliver debate whether they should give him a lift back to work.

[2:24] Georgina: I really think your father died at home just despite me. Hmm. I have half a mind to just put your father in the car and drop him off at that video store. Is we'd both be rich. Uh can you please call the coroner now? So he's ready in time for his own funeral. Mother, what did you just say? Can you call the coroner before the funeral? That's funny. No, before that. Oh, I don't know. Um put your father in the car and drop him off at work and collect that money. Better yet, maybe we could call him an Uber. Yes, that's that's that. Well, what about it? Yes, what about it, mother? What about it? What are you saying? I'm saying just what you just said. I didn't say anything. I I I was just joking, Oliver.

You always said there's a lot of truth in the joke. Not this time. This time would be the time, mother. I mean, would it be so bad if we moved daddy from spot A to spot B? If spot C was jail, yes, it would be so bad. Like going to jail for insurance fraud bad. You think? Really? That bad for me. I am not going to drag your father's dead body down Olympic Boulevard in the middle of the night, Oliver. Ma, we are three miles from a million dollars. That's like 333k a mile. I could definitely do it for that. No problem. And looking ma ways is saying it'll take 15 minutes to get there. Wait with my phone. I'm calling the corner right now. Give me my phone, Oliver. We are not that type of people. I'm that person for a lot less money than this.

Trust me. Well, that's not how we raised you, Oliver Mulligan. Well, that's how I turned out, Georgina Mulligan. And we'll be right back with part two of our interview with KITT SHAPIRO. After a brief commercial break.

[4:24] Alistair Justin Black: Hello, I'm Alistair Justin Black, from Theater and the Black. Playwright Blaine Teamer began writing "Dead Weight" in 2016. He finished it nearly four months later. The writing of the perfect line in a great play, or the making of a line of fine fancy wines takes time. Perfect example is Afro X's new and improved bougie bouger. A red wine with notes of tang, green apple, tropical punch, black cherry, and an invisible grape. It's a fancy wine for those fancy moments. What was true nearly four months ago is true today. It's five o'clock somewhere. Take life one sip at a time.

[5:14] Indira G. Wilson: Hello and welcome back to part two of our interview with the author of "Eartha & Kitt: A Daughter’s Love Story in Black and White," KITT SHAPIRO. And my co-host is uh Frederick Johnson.

[5:26] Frederick Johnson: Hello, hello.

[5:26] Indira G. Wilson: Oh, wait a minute. Now, is that like your tag thing now? Hello, hello. Like that's gonna be your thing.

[5:31] Frederick Johnson: You know what? That was my first time doing it, but I was thinking about maybe I could work that in. That's my thing. Hello, hello?

[5:38] Indira G. Wilson: Right. Oh, hello, okay. I love it. Who just man around trying to take my job? From your interview, what have you most enjoyed learning about Eartha? Like, what's been your favorite thing from Kitt that you've learned? Or even about Kitt.

[5:50] Frederick Johnson: I love KITT SHAPIRO. Like, she's like the girl you want to hang out with. Like, she's so much fun and so a pure delight. And you can tell that she's smart and savvy, and she's like that broad that has your back. You know what I mean? Like, she's like good people. And just very fun and very funny. In regards to Eartha Kitt, I think Eartha Kitt was one of the best cabaret performers of all time. And her interpretations of songs were so amazing. And so, Frederick, let me ask you, as a singer or performer yourself, how did you deal with preparing a song or interpreting a song?

[6:35] Frederick Johnson: One of the first things I ever learned from my father, who was a jazz singer and an opera singer, and he was one of those people that he danced, he acted, he sang. He used to always say you have to live the song. That was kind of his thing. So everything was really about interpreting what the song really meant, and that you really are kind of living the song. So there's kind of like an acting in your performance of it. It's not that people can't do that, but I think it's something that for most people is something innate. Like acting in general. Like people can take acting classes and learn how to act and maybe do something. But there's a lot more people like that. And then there's other people who really I just think the music is really just an expression of kind of like the artistry that they're really bringing.

[7:27] Indira G. Wilson: That's exactly what I mean. So often, you know, you're watching this talent show, and it's a 13-year-old girl singing, and I'm telling you, I'm not going. You really think you can get away with this madness? They have no idea what that song means. And they may really not be an old soul after all.

[7:43] Frederick Johnson: Oh, not at all. No. No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no. I was saying that with Eartha Kitt, she was an actress who also sang. And when she sang the song, there's so much that goes into it. We shall begin now. So funny you would say that because my mother would talk about some of these, you know, these older songs, you know, the church songs and things because she sang in the Baptist choir when you're a little girl, and she would often talk about how there's a deep meaning that nobody really learns about, right? They just sort of give pay lip service to. When you're talking about interpretation with her, and she would interpret a song within her entire body. She would feel that when you speak, you have to really understand what you're saying and feel it, right?

That's why you can't just sing any whole song, that the words come from a deeper place. That's where you have to go to. And I think that's what she was able to do. And I think that everything she did was somewhat deliberate. I think she was very much the thinker, and she always gave you, she didn't react, she really sort of gave it a beat, you know, would take a beat. And that too, when she was, you know, developing her interpretation of the song, or she was developing a character or developing, you know, a project that she would really take time to think about it.

[8:58] Indira G. Wilson: Well, I have to say, you have really done a tremendous job of keeping your mother's legacy alive. And I'm curious as to where do you see that going forward? Where would you like to take that?

[9:09] KITT SHAPIRO: Well, I love talking to people and sharing who she was and sharing what I've learned and sharing who I've become because of who she was. I'm hoping to bring her story to the screen, you know, and do a biopic. We're working on that.

[9:24] Indira G. Wilson: That was my next question.

[9:26] KITT SHAPIRO: We're working on making that happen. I'm telling you, I don't know how anything gets done in Hollywood because of a couple of times I gotta tell you we got the who's gonna be the white male lead, you know, I mean wow okay how about she's she's a strong person in her own right I mean you know so you you're still facing I mean we're all still dealing with you know the what the reality of the powers that be are and decisions that you know that get made but sometimes I look at what we what does get made and you just like really because of this podcast someone out there is gonna go wait that's not being made already you know I think of uh I think of certain uh female uh performers who I cannot believe they're not beating your door down every day like I have to do this like I have to have to do this.

I I just I can't believe it. We have had some A-list actresses who said they wanted to do this look at me what do you see and a couple of studios who've been like I don't know. May I say it just once more please look at me what do you see? I don't know really I mean, I think it is amazing that the the things that are worthwhile being seen and getting bit getting the out to the public are often the ones that are hard the hardest. And I think this is part of what this whole series is about because we never know all the obstacles that it takes right for a person to get a book out to make a movie. We just see the end result. You talked about right from the beginning, you know, a breakthrough and the and writing a book.

See, I found writing a book, not the storytelling, because stories are something that you know are sort of I'm so used to, but the physical writing of a book and and delivering a book and getting things formatted in a certain way, I found to be quite overwhelming.

[11:11] KITT SHAPIRO: Especially during COVID when, you know, things were already overwhelming. There were moments when I did not think I was going to finish it. It was just too hard. I couldn't get it done. I couldn't figure out, every sentence sounded terrible to me. I kept, you know, every chapter started to sound the same. My daughter and I would just say to her, you know, I can't do this. I'm just, I'm not doing it. I'm just not doing it. And she said, if you don't do it, are you gonna, you know, kick yourself for not finishing? And I'm like, probably. And she said, well, then that's your answer. You know, she said, when Michelangelo would, you know, look at the Sistine Chapel, he didn't look at the entire roof and go, oh my god, I can't believe I have to do this whole thing.

He would take a little bit and he'd be like, okay, today I'm gonna do this. So today, write a paragraph. She said, and then if you don't want to release it, then you don't have to release it, right? You don't have to release, but finish it. I could really understand my mother more in that, you know, how hard it is to really want to deliver a project and be proud of it, but yet struggle with that, you know. I just don't think I can do it. And there's that really hard place. And so I had, I learned a lot more respect that, you know, and I would sit there and say, my mother wrote three books in longhand. You know, it was a lot. It was just a lot.

[12:28] Indira G. Wilson: Well, you did a wonderful job communicating your mother's love for you, your relationship, you know, the impact of her career. You really did a fabulous job. What would you like the reader to take away from this book?

[12:41] KITT SHAPIRO: The importance of treating each other with kindness and respect, giving someone you love the power to be who they are.

[12:51] Indira G. Wilson: I love it. And what a wonderful gift for your children. See the connection that you two had. It's just wonderful, wonderful.

[12:58] KITT SHAPIRO: Yeah, I think that, and I think they do understand and appreciate that. So, and if they don't, I will continue to tell them so that they will finally know.

[13:05] Indira G. Wilson: Exactly. What you're here for. Anything else? What's the best advice your mother gave to you?

[13:09] KITT SHAPIRO: Oh, don't panic. And she would say the reason you don't panic is that when you panic, you can't see the opportunity or the lesson or, you know, the door that's supposed to open.

[13:21] Indira G. Wilson: What's happening?

[13:21] KITT SHAPIRO: So, you know, she would always say, take a beat, don't panic. Everything happens for a reason.

[13:26] Indira G. Wilson: Anything else?

[13:27] KITT SHAPIRO: Don't take everything too seriously. You know, humor is one of life's true blessings. And human beings, we have the ability to laugh at ourselves and to laugh at a situation. And my mother was really good at that, and we laughed a lot.

[13:40] Indira G. Wilson: Who would you like to direct the Eartha Kitt movie?

[13:42] KITT SHAPIRO: Wow, I mean, I think there's so many talented women of color right now. When you're a creative person, you have this ability to look at it, you know, differently. And maybe it's not even something I've even thought about. You know, I think of her life as the way she lived it, right? So it's hard for me to sort of look at it and say, how about this little pearl of a moment, right? Like being the Ricardos. They looked at one week or one night, Miami, look at one night. So I think there's a lot of, you know, maybe ideas that, you know, I haven't even heard of.

[14:11] Indira G. Wilson: Yeah. Your favorite director calls you up on the phone. They want you to star in their next big budget picture.

[14:20] KITT SHAPIRO: All-star cast, you are the star.

[14:22] Indira G. Wilson: Okay. I like your thinking. Go ahead.

[14:25] KITT SHAPIRO: This is the twist. You are completely miscast in the role. Do you take the part?

[14:33] Indira G. Wilson: Oh, do I take the part?

[14:35] KITT SHAPIRO: That's what we want at all. You know, so I'm such a giant weenie. I would probably, my initial response would be no, but then I have a huge ego, so then I would probably be like, well, yeah, I mean, because it's me and it's always gonna be all about me. I would probably say yes, I would take the part, and I would suck and I wouldn't care.

[14:54] Indira G. Wilson: I'm with you, kid. I would take the part.

[14:56] KITT SHAPIRO: I was afraid of that. And I would assume a couple of things. If God brought me to it, I'm supposed to be doing it. So that's personal. I would assume they got all this money. They knew what they wanted. They must have wanted to make some type of commentary about me playing, you know, Princess Diana. I don't know. I can't read their minds. You know, they must have wanted it to be a comedy. They wanted to make a social statement. And you know, I'll say this is one of the most unique things about me. Kids, you're gonna learn a lot about me. I'm gonna go in, I'm gonna do it. And I'm not even gonna ask. I'm not gonna ask why. You know, I'm gonna do the script. I'm going to kiss Prince Charles. I love it.

I'm going to have the little redhead baby. I'm gonna do the whole thing. I'm never even gonna ask. America, I'm not gonna say, why am I here? I'm gonna go. I'm 40 pounds over. I gotta have that woman that stones and pounds. I'm gonna take and I'm gonna cash that check really fast and run. Really fast. Really fast. And just pray they give me a really good wig.

[16:03] Indira G. Wilson: Looks to be in pretty good condition. I wonder how old it is. It was lovely, lovely, lovely meeting you, kid. Thank you so much for doing our podcast. We know that there's a lot of podcasts to be done, and we really appreciate you coming on and hanging out with us.

[16:18] KITT SHAPIRO: Well, you know, my mother had a special place in her heart for live performance in theater. So being on the Broadway podcast platform seems like it makes a lot of sense.

[16:27] Indira G. Wilson: Wait, can I tell a quick story? Really quick about your mother.

[16:30] KITT SHAPIRO: Yeah, of course.

[16:31] Indira G. Wilson: We have a friend, Tanya Pinkins, and I went to see Tanya in The Wild Party. And I also, you know, to see your mother as well. And she just blew my mind.

[16:44] KITT SHAPIRO: When you look around the room, look. Tell me, what do you see? Imitations of imitations. I invented myself. I'm a creature who sacrificed. Why, you may ask. What's these small? Do you know what it's like to kiss such smoldering lips? Wouldn't I like to find out? But first, I hear you moving uptown. Let's go. I'm ready for the big time. That's what I need. I need to return to the place where I used to belong. I hear you moving off.

[17:44] Indira G. Wilson: She blew my mind. And she blew everybody else in the cast. Like it just blew, not to putting them down or anything, but just blew them away. It was like a whole different type of performing. Whole different type. So like you couldn't even stand up to it. So I ran around back. It's something I didn't do. You know, I'm a performer. I really didn't do stage door. You know, it's really that kind of guy. I ran around. I ran around that. I ran around. He doesn't run. She doesn't run either. Hey. And I told him, I was like, wait, I don't care what you're doing. I'm gonna go around here. I have to meet Eartha Kitt. I was like, this is go. I was like, I have to say something. I have to say something.

And she comes out, you know, and she, you know, she comes out and meets everyone and greets everyone, and she gets around to me, and I said, you know, I just have to say, you know, you really didn't. You blew my mind, and it's not just thank you for that. That really just changed me. And she said, oh, thank you. And then she looked at me and she actually grabbed me and she said, yo, gorgeous. And I was like, that's it. And that's all. I'm good. I'm good. I'll never need nothing ever again, ever again. I mean, I literally, I but it just felt, she just was like, she just was still gorgeous.

[19:09] KITT SHAPIRO: You know, I think it says a lot about my mother loved that, you know, when she felt a connection to somebody, she, you know, she acted on that, right? I mean, it just was something that she felt. And look at me, here you are, you will remember that moment for the rest of your life. And yes, she happened to have been famous, but there's a deeper level to that, I think. There's a, you know, and I think that's what was so incredible. To me, was that piece of her that was so impactful because she truly impacted people that she came in touch with, and I think that's a pretty cool thing to have to be remembered.

[19:44] Indira G. Wilson: Really neat lady, and thank you so much for sharing even more of her with us. It was really lovely to read.

[19:49] KITT SHAPIRO: Thank you. Thank you for sharing that story with me. I appreciate that. She was awesome. And we'll be right back after a brief commercial break.

[19:56] ♪ Musical number ♪

[21:01] Indira G. Wilson: We are so glad you joined us for another episode of the Afro-Existential Podcast. And take a moment to visit us at our website, afroexpodcast.com for more fun and insightful content. And be sure to visit earthakitt.com. Anything else? Please click subscribe. And check us out on Instagram at the Afro EX Theater. Anything else? Email us your comments or questions at afroexpodcast@gmail.com. Anything else? And a very special thanks to the brilliant Sean Carter Peterson, who plays Oliver in our audio play, DEAD WAIT. And the divine Lachey Tomlison who plays Sister Rosemary in our upcoming audio play, Pandora's Strunk. Anything else? Again, thank you for joining us. I'm Blaine Teamer.

[21:49] Indira G. Wilson: And I'm Indira G. Wilson. And as always, have a great day on purpose. The Afro-Existential Podcast is part of the Broadway Podcast Network.