This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:06] Robert Peterpaul: Hello, beautiful people. Welcome to the Art of Kindness, where we have compassionate conversations with artists from all areas of the entertainment industry who are using their voice to spread joy and make this big spinning planet in the sky a better place to be.

[0:21] Robert Peterpaul: I'm Robert Peterpaul, and I'm so glad you're here.

[0:35] Robert Peterpaul: Hello, friends. I'm recording this on September 11th, 2022, 21 years since our world changed forever, and just want to send some extra love to those who need it this time of year. I certainly do. September 11th marks the anniversary of my younger brother Thomas's passing. As you may know because I have talked about it on here before. He oddly enough passed away at the age of 11 on 9-11 at 9-11 p.m. after being diagnosed with cancer when he was nine years old. Not a day goes by that I don't think of you, Thomas. Your legacy lives on in every act of kindness I see.

[1:16] Robert Peterpaul: Now, speaking of kindness, I do want to shout out once again the Pay It Forward 9-11 charity, which encourages acts of kindness, specifically this time of year. Go take a listen to our episode with the incredibly kind Kevin Turf, also known as the real Kevin T from Come From Away the Musical, if you have not already, for more information on how you can take part in this incredible initiative.

[1:39] Robert Peterpaul: Today's guest is model actress and filmmaker Emily Ruhl. Emily was 13 years old when she was scouted while attending New York Fashion Week. Shortly thereafter, the Dallas native signed her first modeling contract in Tokyo. She later returned to New York City to sign with top modeling agency Marilyn Management. She has since appeared in Teen Vogue, Marie Claire, WWD, Seventeen Magazine, Nylon, and Elle Canada, amongst many others. Emily has been the face of many cosmetic companies as well, including Smashbox, Too Faced, the Kardashians, KKW Beauty, and MAC.

[2:18] Robert Peterpaul: On the acting front, Emily starred opposite Nicholas Hoult in the film Newness, which premiered at the Sundance Film Festival. She also made a notable cameo appearance in Troian Bellisario's short film Life on Mars. The talent made her producing, directing, and writing debut with the short film BLUE MOON. As if she wasn't already wearing a million hats, she also co-wrote and produced the theme song to BLUE MOON, titled Her. She is currently in production for her first TV series, 13th Stepping, which she also wrote, directed, and stars in. Basically, Emily is incredibly impressive and has so many golden nuggets of wisdom to share with you all today. So take notes! JK, you don't have to. I mean, you totally should because it'll be super helpful, and she's got a lot of great nuggets of wisdom that she just drops like sweet little gifts into your ears, but you know it's totally up to you.

[3:08] Robert Peterpaul: As always, please stay tuned after our interview for your kindness tip of the week. I also want to thank you so much for your beautiful reviews here on Apple Podcasts and messages on Instagram at Art of Kindness Pod and at Robert Peterpaul. They truly mean the world to me. And while we're stopped here on the side of the audio road, I do have to thank Juan, my friend Juan has an awesome podcast called Actors with Issues. I was actually on it if you want to listen to our episode. But he also interviewed Emily and he provided so many wonderful little pieces of information for me to kind of take in and then formulate my own questions for today's chat. So thanks, Juan. Now without further ado, please welcome the empathetic Emily Ruhl.

[4:03] Emily Ruhl: Hi.

[4:04] Robert Peterpaul: Hi.

[4:05] Emily Ruhl: How are you?

[4:06] Robert Peterpaul: I'm good, thanks. How are you doing?

[4:08] Emily Ruhl: I'm good too. I'm pumped to talk to you today.

[4:10] Robert Peterpaul: Same. I'm so excited to talk to you.

[4:12] Emily Ruhl: Where are you? Are you in LA?

[4:13] Robert Peterpaul: I'm in LA. Yes. In my like dining room, kitchen office, all in one.

[4:20] Emily Ruhl: I know. I'm literally in, well, you can tell there's a wall here. I'm like in my corner, my office, living room situation. So I get it.

[4:27] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[4:27] Emily Ruhl: Since the pandemic, I feel like every room is a million different things.

[4:32] Robert Peterpaul: 1000%.

[4:32] Emily Ruhl: Yeah. This is also like the gymnasium at points.

[4:35] Robert Peterpaul: Oh wow. Okay. We might get a workout in, you know, that'll be fun.

[4:39] Emily Ruhl: Yeah.

[4:41] Robert Peterpaul: Well, like I said, I'm so excited to talk to you today, Emily. One of the things that I have to say, I really admire about you when I was researching you is that you seem to not wait for opportunities, but you create them. You don't wait, you create, which I might put on a bumper sticker.

[4:56] Emily Ruhl: Yeah, I think that's fantastic. You should trademark that before I do.

[4:59] Robert Peterpaul: You know what? Be right back.

[5:00] Emily Ruhl: Yeah.

[5:01] Robert Peterpaul: No, you really do. And I think you just you don't talk the talk, but you seem to walk the walk, which is so vital in today's industry. So I really think that's a great thing, and you're gonna have a lot of awesome knowledge for our listeners. So I'm excited.

[5:14] Emily Ruhl: I really appreciate it. And before I just keep like complimenting you for hours and hours.

[5:18] Robert Peterpaul: Keep it coming.

[5:19] Emily Ruhl: She just well, the first question I always like to ask my guests in the arts is how are you at accepting compliments?

[5:26] Emily Ruhl: Oh um, not great. I actually was just talking to my acting coach yesterday about this. Her name is Lena Jorges. Shout out to Lena. Um, I I don't think I'm that great at them. I think that I'm trying to get better. I think that there's due to kind of my brand of childhood trauma, there's something in me that wants to be good enough constantly and professionally that's really fantastic because it pushes you very far. But then I think when it comes to personal compliments, they don't resonate.

[5:57] Emily Ruhl: Um actually, I have a production company and we just got like this massive cowbell. So every time we have an accomplishment, we ring the bell, and it's awesome. Like yesterday, I got my bell rung, as we like to say. And they got to take in those moments, and I think that's helping me with that, but I'm not I'm not great. It's kind of weird, isn't it? Because I feel like I mean, we're not in it for those moments, but you know, when you walk out at the stage door or when you're at a screening of one of your films, you want people to come up and compliment you and you want to hear people clap, and then when you get it, it's just awkward.

[6:30] Emily Ruhl: So it's it's a weird It is. It's like when everybody like when somebody sings you happy birthday, yeah for I think for me the greatest compliment I ever got was when I screened BLUE MOON. My mom, who I hadn't told much about because I I hadn't told her much about BLUE MOON because I wanted that moment of her seeing it for the first time and really not being prepared. Um, and it kind of worked because she wept in the best way, and that was the greatest kind of stamp of. I think we all want our parents' approval in some way, and I think having that moment that was the actually funny, like a nonverbal compliment that was really meaningful to me.

[7:06] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, that's oh, that's so sweet. I love that.

[7:09] Emily Ruhl: But spoiler alert, we're here today to talk about kindness in the arts. And so I'd love to know for you what is your definition of kindness.

[7:18] Emily Ruhl: I mean, I think in its simplest form, it's helping others. I also think it's including others, and I think that it's valuing other people's opinions as well. And I think listening and hearing somebody else's thoughts, I kind of like to say I run like a collaborative dictatorship. So like I want everybody's ideas. I think that I only have my certain set of experiences, and I love to hear other people's takes on certain things, and I feel like that creates a really great group and a really great culture. Maybe I think kindness to me feels like being heard, I think.

[7:56] Robert Peterpaul: I love that.

[7:56] Emily Ruhl: Yeah, it is. It's seeing people, I think, and which is so hard now when we're all just looking at our phones all the time and not looking up. But I I love that you even, you know, a dictatorship. That's funny. I love that you run that with collaboration in mind because I think the arts runs on collaboration. And if we're not listening to each other, you know, I mean, you can't have arts without an artist and then an observer. So I mean, it really at its core.

[8:21] Emily Ruhl: Yeah.

[8:22] Robert Peterpaul: So I I love that. Do you so do you feel like you know, going way back before we kind of dive into your amazing life now? Starting out in Texas when you were growing up, I heard you originally dreamed of doing musical theater, right?

[8:35] Emily Ruhl: Yes. I was in uh in middle school. I was in school.

[8:39] Robert Peterpaul: I know.

[8:40] Emily Ruhl: Um, and I made my debut as a zebra in Seussical the Musical.

[8:44] Robert Peterpaul: I had heard that. Wow.

[8:45] Emily Ruhl: I really did I did Seussical too.

[8:52] Robert Peterpaul: That's such a fun thing.

[8:52] Emily Ruhl: Oh, amazing. Yeah, yeah.

[8:54] Emily Ruhl: Um, and that was the dream. I uh it was in choir before then, and I did show choir, so we had like jumpsuits and routines, and we toured and did the whole thing, and then I found musical theater, and then I went to a musical theater camp called Stage Door for a summer.

[9:09] Robert Peterpaul: Oh yeah.

[9:09] Emily Ruhl: And that was the dream. I really think so. Because it incorporated a lot of things that I love to do. I still love to sing um and act, and uh it was such an outlet for me growing up, and I love playing dress up and the whole gamut. Um, but then I got scouted when I was 13 and my life just kind of happened, and musical theater kind of fell to the wayside, but that was the initial dream.

[9:31] Robert Peterpaul: It sounds like it turned into kind of like a movie fairy tale in a lot of ways.

[9:34] Emily Ruhl: Oh, thanks. Like the way, yeah.

[9:37] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, there's still like a few chapters to go, but at this stage in the book, it's a it's we have a happy ending.

[9:44] Emily Ruhl: Yes, definitely.

[9:45] Robert Peterpaul: I love that. And it sounds like your parents are really supportive of you too, kind of entering the arts, which is awesome.

[9:50] Emily Ruhl: Yeah, they are for sure. Um it's it's really nice to have that to just kind of have unconditional support and belief, I think. It's necessary because I think it then conditions you to believe in yourself as well. So it all starts at home, I think.

[10:05] Robert Peterpaul: And that's so important, and it's it's like the hardest thing to do sometimes, but you know, we all just gotta be ourselves and believe in ourselves. It's like what you learn when you're in kindergarten, you know.

[10:15] Emily Ruhl: And it's the easiest thing to say and kind of the hardest thing to put in actual, you know, action, I guess. And I think there's so much rejection on a daily basis. I mean, especially acting, which is I'd stopped auditioning for a while. I've actually just decided to start auditioning again, but like the consistent yeah, thanks. Um just my way. I feel like now that like my entire, I feel like before, before I had everything I have now, or the other things going on, like my entire self-worth was like the weight of the world was on a single audition. Like I have to book this so my life will change, and it was absolutely miserable. And I think that I started to just really hate the job, which is not me. And also, I mean, auditioning isn't the job, but I think I started to hate the process. So I'm glad I took a little break and now I love that. Now I might come back a little more relaxed. We'll see.

[11:08] Robert Peterpaul: I've yet to have a tape, but no, you're gonna be great.

[11:11] Emily Ruhl: I can I can relate because I feel like starting this podcast and kind of having that creative outlet, and luckily it's doing well, and I can keep doing it, has made my auditions a little less taxing and a little given me less pressure in there. So you maybe you'd find that too, since you create your own work.

[11:26] Emily Ruhl: Hopefully, Lena, um the acting coach yesterday was talking it, talking about it and and uh in terms of like, oh, I have an opportunity to work on my craft. Like this is just practice. This is just the reframe versus like I don't book this, I'm not going to be successful, and and all of those things. So that was a nice mental reframe.

[11:47] Robert Peterpaul: I love that.

[11:48] Emily Ruhl: And yeah, and like kind of going in there with that good mindset. I mean, I say it all the time on the podcast, but I love just like playing a really fun song that makes me happy before I start auditioning.

[11:56] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, that's a great idea.

[11:58] Emily Ruhl: Dolly Parton, she does wonders, and I'm gonna tell you right now. So I do suggest it because it kind of gets you out of your head, and it's so hard with self-tapes with your lighting, and I mean I'm sure you're great at it having self-tapes.

[12:10] Emily Ruhl: No, horrendous.

[12:11] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, okay, good.

[12:12] Emily Ruhl: Yeah, no, I'm but I hopefully I'll get better at it. Um I think it was it was always hard for me, especially during COVID. Like, I never quite found a groove with like a phone in between a ring light and then the lighting. Like, I really think that there's something special about being able to read with a real person, and I think it was very hard for me to to have the phone and then disassociate and then have like sticky notes around my apartment for eyelines. Um and so I think now that I'll be able to do it with a human. I think it'll be nice. I think that there's a certain, you know, uh game of tennis that you get to play with a real person that you lose that connection via a spirit.

[12:48] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, I know. I miss that all around so much.

[12:50] Emily Ruhl: Yeah. You did mention you got scouted at a young age, which is kind of a dreamy moment at Fashion Week. And so I mean, what was what was that like, first of all, I guess.

[13:02] Emily Ruhl: Um well, two months prior, I had gone to an agency in Dallas, and they told me no. And I was really crushed. I also still had braces.

[13:11] Robert Peterpaul: Um did you have the colors? The different colors, or were they like...

[13:14] Emily Ruhl: I did like if it was Halloween or like my colors. The glow in the dark ones were super cool when it was dark, but when it like wasn't dark, they just looked a weird color because they I hated them so much. But well at first like I wanted them in third grade because everybody else had them. And like I tried to convince my dentist to give them to me. And then when I got them a little later than everybody else, I absolutely hated them. Um so I had my braces. They told me no, I was kind of crushed and a little down. And I went to fashion week for my birthday with my dad, and I um had no braces and had just dyed my hair platinum blonde, and I got scouted by this woman named Chantal Nadu, who's a fantastic mother agent out of Toronto. And uh I won her model search. I ended up flying back to New York to do a photo shoot. My first ever um with this photographer named Owen Bruce. And shortly after that I'd gotten a contract in um in Tokyo. And so it all happened quickly.

[14:15] Robert Peterpaul: That's so cool. And then you kind of became like this top model. You've been in magazines like Teen Vogue and Marie Claire, and you know, I just think for someone with that much experience, what I'm curious about is there's kind of this devil wears Prada stigma with the fashion industry where people can be a little bit colder and it's more cutthroat. And certainly, you know, I mean, I've been to like Fashion Week and written fashion articles and things like that. And we can always see that with every industry overall. Right. But what was your experience? Did you have that at all? Like those moments of trying to navigate it with kindness, but just seeing something that was a little bit more frosty.

[14:54] Emily Ruhl: Yeah, I mean, I think the hard thing with modeling is that you're dealing with a living, breathing human that's also treated as a commodity. And so sometimes the human empathy I think might get lost because you are the product in a way, and so there might be there's like I mean, I remember going through puberty and it like being a thing and like gaining 15 pounds and and having to lose it and wondering why my body was changing because I thought that I needed to be this like certain image. Um, I mean, I think all in all, everybody really wants to be a good person. I don't know if people wake up and intend on being a jerk, but I think there was a delicacy, at least when I was really young that I wish I kind of would have been held with, but I wasn't, I was just you know, treated as an adult, and that had a lot of benefits and and a lot of negatives to that.

But I think when you're dealing with something like fashion, which is really cutthroat, and there's also this need for like perfectionism that doesn't really exist, you know, there's gonna be problems in that, um for sure. And you're selling something, and so with that always comes kind of contradictions and and problems. So even when you are making it and booking it, they they still add that layer of perfectionism because they're airbrushing you. I mean, they're probably changing you sometimes.

[16:20] Emily Ruhl: Yeah, I mean, it was interesting to think back because I stopped a handful of years ago. Um, although if like L'Oreal calls, I'll like jump back in. But hey, I realized that you know, my my adolescence, I'd been photographed consistently, but almost every photograph I saw of myself had been photoshopped, which I think is really interesting, and I'm still working out like how it's affected my development or the way that I see myself. I think that the airbrushing there were times where like I had my eye color changed or my hair color changed. Um, and I don't think that like the general public, I don't know if is is aware of like what actually happens. I remember there was a time where I had to stop reading fashion magazines because it was affecting me, and then having the realization that, like, oh, at some point in time my likeness was in those magazines, and and how could I wonder how I made somebody else feel?

Um, I think that it's it's a slippery slope, and I think some awareness of what actually goes into the editing of images. I mean, even on Instagram would be helpful, I think, just for young people's mental health, and even older people, I think everybody's mental health to just realize like, oh, that didn't exist. It's it's as much of a piece of art as a painting, right? It's it's it's a projection of something, it's not like a literal image most of the time.

[17:38] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, no, I totally agree. And I feel like social media kind of exasperates that where it's like you're just seeing everybody picture perfect or having the best time. Like people only post things for the most part that are awesome, and it's hard not to fall down that slippery slope of right.

[17:52] Emily Ruhl: Like I hate holidays, I hate holidays on social media.

[17:55] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[17:56] Emily Ruhl: Because it I'm like, oh, I wish I had the matching pajama set, and like the leg, you know, like the all of it, it's it's a lot. The perfect cocoa and then when we find ourselves like or we're around people that want that perfectly curated image, it's just it's not actually fun.

[18:12] Robert Peterpaul: It's not fun, and there's just a lot of pressure, yeah.

[18:16] Emily Ruhl: Because I tried to live that way, yeah. And I think it's a daily it's there's a lot of daily unlearning for me to release a lot of that, but I think there's a lot of pressure in that, and you pop off in certain ways, and and I don't think like life is messy and life is beautiful, and I think when you have such constraints, you you miss out on a lot. That's been my personal experience.

[18:40] Robert Peterpaul: Everybody rewind that and replay that. I think that's really beautiful. You know, speaking of popping off, you kind of popped off, you pivoted to acting, writing, directing, even though those were always kind of your dreams. Was it scary to take that leap of faith when you had something so solid and modeling? Or was it just a no-brainer for you?

[18:57] Emily Ruhl: Yeah, I mean, I think for me, the acting thing kind of happens simultaneously, and then right before I went to Sundance, my my kind of home base agency um dropped me, and I had this massive existential crisis and like kind of lost my my shit, so to speak, because for almost 10 years, that was who I was from such a young age, and I didn't really know who I was outside of that and what that meant. What was I gonna do? And then I had acting, and that didn't come as quickly. Um, I booked like my second audition, and it was a film that went to Sundance, and I was like, oh, this'll be great. Like, I can do this, this'll be easy, and that's not the way it works. Um, and then I think the directing and the writing came last March after, and that was about a year where the acting industry or the the television and film industry kind of stopped.

And so I'd had time to think about my life, right, without any distractions. And I think I'd gotten tired of waiting for somebody to pick me. And I really felt like, you know, I got out of a relationship that I thought could have been it. And when that ended, I had to think of like what do I want for my life, and what do I want to do so that I'm not somebody's wife or I'm not somebody's daughter, I'm not somebody's sister, like as me. What can I be proud of on my own? Um, and somehow the idea for BLUE MOON came. I mean, I know how it came, it came from going on a really wonderful date. Um, and and kind of thinking about love and if love can exist in a night, and if I feel this with this person, but then it ends like does it still exist?

And and then one of my friends started dating women, and I wanted her to feel represented and include her story, so that's kind of how BLUE MOON was made. Um, and then fun fact the guy I went on a date with is now in my other short film, and hopefully the show, and is my graphic designer, and it all kind of comes full circle.

[20:54] Robert Peterpaul: That's amazing.

[20:55] Emily Ruhl: Um, thanks. I think that like I just I think I was going stir crazy, and I needed I needed a road for my life because I didn't, I didn't, I felt very lost. And so I tried to create something, and also nobody had told me that I was bad at it yet, so there wasn't a lot of fear. I think with acting it it I had a little bit more insecurity around that because I'd gotten s rejected so many times that there was this core belief that I was capable, but I think with acting or I'm sorry with directing and writing, I hadn't had any rejection yet. So it's kind of like okay, well, if this doesn't work, it doesn't work. This was a fun project, maybe it'll lead to the next thing. I I just I didn't think about it in terms of like what are other people going to think. It was more of like what am I going to think? And am I going to be proud of this?

[21:43] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[21:43] Emily Ruhl: So that's so healthy. There was no trauma attached to the label.

[21:47] Emily Ruhl: Exactly. There was no trauma attached to it. There's still time, but there's no trauma attached to the label. And uh I think it it was the perfect the title of director, I think was the perfect mixture of all of my life experiences. Like if I backtrack and think about all the little moments that led up to this, I think it was the perfect use of all of my interesting idiosyncrasies and talents.

[22:09] Robert Peterpaul: So it's so cool that you found that.

[22:11] Emily Ruhl: And I I just think your journey's awesome. I mean, with labels, like you know, if you look at a sticky label in life, it gets all this residue in the back, and it's kind of like that's the trauma, whatever you collect.

[22:22] Robert Peterpaul: But we...

[22:23] Emily Ruhl: Oh yeah, that's cool. I don't know. We kind of live in a society built on labels, and it's helpful.

[22:27] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, because you find your tribe, you find your people, but then it's also if you go too far into it, it's really hurtful because it becomes your identity, and if the rug gets taken out from under you, like it kind of happened to you, that must have been so devastating, you know, to...

[22:27] Emily Ruhl: Oh my god, I like wept in my bathroom for hours. I like it. And I had gotten dropped before for you know various reasons, and I think that that one I think in my heart and my soul too, I knew that like I was at the end of end of the road, so to speak, or that I just didn't have it in me anymore, and I'd kind of done all the things I think that I wanted to do accomplishment wise, and I just lost the passion for it because I'd found something else. So I think there was also that it was like the fear of ending something that you're you know that you're good at and starting something new, and what if this new thing doesn't work? It was it was so many different things that I didn't really realize at 20, but I I love yeah, I lost it.

[23:22] Robert Peterpaul: Well listen, I mean we all we're all a little bit lost, yeah.

[23:26] Emily Ruhl: But I think you kind of took the Carrie Fisher route, which is like you took your broken heart, you made it into art.

[23:31] Robert Peterpaul: I love that.

[23:32] Emily Ruhl: I love that quote too. And I just think it's amazing how you kind of made your own college in a lot of ways. You know, you you took your college fund and you made BLUE MOON, this awesome short film.

[23:41] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, thanks.

[23:42] Emily Ruhl: Yeah, which you called a really expensive business card, and that that made me laugh out loud when I read it. I just think that's an awesome term. Well, I guess you said a little bit what made you take control and start to create your own work.

[23:53] Emily Ruhl: Yeah. But what I found interesting too was that while making this film, you said it was the first time you never doubted yourself.

[24:01] Emily Ruhl: Yeah, I think it was the first time I never told myself I couldn't do something. Do you think that's what you were saying before? With there was nothing attached to directing.

[24:09] Robert Peterpaul: Well, yes, exactly. There was a very it's there's a through line there. I think that because I felt like this was something that I wanted to do, I realized in order to make it successful, I couldn't have any self-doubt.

[24:23] Emily Ruhl: Like there just wasn't room or time, and it worked out. You know, it's actually, if I watch it now, I kind of cringe because it's the first thing I did, and now I think all these things are done differently. But I'm proud of myself at that time, and I think one of the things I love about production, especially when you're in, you know, you're two weeks out or whatever. I mean, everything's happening so quickly. And I, you know, from insurance policies to crewing up to I didn't know about any of the stuff. So I'm learning so quickly. So maybe just also the rate at which things happen is you just have to adapt. And there really was no going backwards, and so I just fell forwards, I guess.

[25:01] Robert Peterpaul: Well, listen, you can't reach your destination if you're not moving fast like a train or like a plane. You know, I mean, and you know, you don't have to like meet all your goals right away, but I think making art wise, it's a really cool thing. And I just I would love your advice, especially for our listeners, because I feel like people know now as an artist, you have to kind of create your own work. And people have ideas, but it can be really hard to actually have the follow through. So do you have any advice for kind of staying committed and sort of like keeping that fire under your own butt for lack of a better term?

[25:34] Emily Ruhl: Yeah, I think first, whatever project you're doing has to be so personal to you that you feel like you have to make it because nobody else can. I think the second thing is working backwards and trying to figure out like what are all the tasks I need to do in order to achieve this thing, and then scheduling your day so that you're accomplishing a handful of those micro goals at a time so that way you keep going. But I think the only one that can push you up that, you know, hill is yourself. So it has to be something that you believe in so wholeheartedly that it provides you that fire, and I think even finding ways to reinvigorate that is necessary, or celebrating those small wins. Like yesterday, um I wrote reached out, so I slid into this artist's DMs.

[26:27] Robert Peterpaul: Nice.

[26:28] Emily Ruhl: Uh, and it's an artist who, uh, whose songs I use and the show I want to create, and then the proof of concept for the show, which is also a short, um, called 13 Stepping. And I've been a huge fan of this guy for years. Um, and I slid into his DMs and wanted to get a meeting with him because I'd love to attach him, you know, when I pitched the show, and I'd love for him to score the show and have a study on set and um kind of be like the labyrinth to my euphoria, so to speak. Um, and I finally got a meeting with this guy, and he loved the idea, and he was really the first person I pitched it to because we just finished the deck, and it was such a moment. I mean, I got to ring the bell and I almost cried, but it was a moment where like, you know, the day before it had felt like nothing was moving forward, and you know, we're trying to do all of these things, but then having this one little accomplishment, celebrating it, it's like, okay, now I have another person that I'm not gonna disappoint.

You know what I mean? And I think also having, I don't know how healthy this is, but a long list of people who made me feel like I wasn't good enough and proving them wrong. I think that to me is also really motivational, you know.

[27:32] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, no, I totally agree. And I think we all have that, and it's definitely a healthier route than actually reaching out and like yelling at those people. I think just in your mind being like, look at me now, kind of thing.

[27:44] Emily Ruhl: Yeah, I see nothing wrong with that, but I'm so happy for you. That's amazing.

[27:47] Robert Peterpaul: I appreciate it. It was a really big deal, and now he's gonna be the composer on the show.

[27:52] Emily Ruhl: Ah, oh, I wish I had a bell. That's awesome.

[27:54] Robert Peterpaul: I know, I know. I was just it was really great. I did like a half dance and you know, called my friends, and my mom. My mom was like, Who is that, honey? And I was like, yeah, exactly. She's like, I'm proud of you. Like, thanks. And I think it's cool also if you bring a group of people around you like who believe in it as much as you do. I mean, I'm kind of humbly, you know, surprised and excited every day to have people around who believe in that idea. But I think it all starts with you.

[28:21] Emily Ruhl: Yeah, we all need our cheerleaders. Anybody listening right now, you should give your cheerleader in your life a text and just let them know how much you appreciate them.

[28:29] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, I'll do that after that.

[28:31] Emily Ruhl: Yes, and we need to cheer other people on too. I think that's really awesome.

[28:35] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, and I think the people in your life succeeding only makes you succeed.

[28:40] Emily Ruhl: Yeah, I think that it's interesting now. I have a really great group of girlfriends who are all kind of finding their thing in life, and their wins feel like my wins.

[28:50] Robert Peterpaul: So it's that's amazing.

[28:52] Emily Ruhl: Yeah, it's so healthy too, and you can get to that place, and I think it just makes life a lot better because you're not constantly comparing yourself, like we were kind of talking about.

[29:00] Robert Peterpaul: I think so too. And I think everybody is so much of an individual and there's enough to go around. I really believe that.

[29:07] Emily Ruhl: You know what's hard though? And you certainly, you know, have some clout, and I'm not surprised people are getting right back to you and giving you meetings, but I think it's really hard, especially when you're first starting out, or maybe you've been grinding for a long time and you hear the clock ticking and you want to like, you know, pitch your screenplay or whatever it is. And you just feel like it can be so hard because you want to put yourself out there, but you don't want people to think you're kind of hungry or too thirsty, or they can kind of smell that desperation.

[29:35] Emily Ruhl: So I don't know. I don't know if there's a lot of things. I think it's I mean it's an interesting balance. Um I think that I had an ex, actually the same one I had during COVID, who like had no fear complex and would just reach out to people and would get these meetings, and that's kind of what inspired me. I mean, I kind of looked at it like, oh, like people are just people.

[29:55] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[29:55] Emily Ruhl: Um, and I think that there's a way in which to like reach out. I mean, I still do it. My production manager named Jackie slid into my DMs, and that's how I met her, and she's an incredible asset to my team. I think it's just realizing people are people, and there's a way I don't I Jackie's head of outreach. So because she slid into my DM, she's now responsible for sliding into other people's DMs, outreach for the company. But I do think there's an interesting balance between the two. Um, and just realizing people are people, yes, no one's like better than anybody else. There's not some sort of like, you know, godlike complex. Um, and not everybody gets back to me, which is why this one in particular, and I think when you like respect somebody else's art so much for them to think that you have a good idea, it's just like really validating and um really cool. It was a really cool moment.

[30:53] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, and it's the right person too. Like you open the door for the right person.

[30:58] Emily Ruhl: Yeah, yeah, a thousand percent, yeah. And I think the right people will get back to us, so keep plugging along, everybody. But just you know, talking about BLUE MOON, I did want to ask you because I really admired and appreciated how you didn't just make kind of a vanity short film, which I think a lot of people do as their first project, which is okay, like you want to like, you know, showcase yourself and whatever, but you had this element of just further adding to the representation in the LGBTQ community, um, which I think is so incredible. And I know it was like a love letter to your best friend that you had mentioned before. So, and you kind of did already touch on this actually, but do you find that when you're making art or even acting in a project that you need that personal connection to the material?

[31:39] Emily Ruhl: Can you oh one thousand percent? Yeah. Like I think, you know, for me, so many members of my chosen family are part of the community, and it's really important to me that the people that I love have exposure and media. Um, and I think it was also really important to me to make a love letter to Los Angeles because the city also has broken my heart, but also made me fall in love in so many different ways. Um, for 13 Stepping specifically, I mean it's kind of it it's the character named Lily isn't me, but she's a part of me and a lot of real life trauma that I've experienced we've now incorporated into it. And when we did it, initially I thought like, oh, I should just cast someone, this will be so much easier.

And then I realized that I was the only one who could play that, and that in doing so, I really I really got to show myself that I could do something I didn't know how to do, and that was really beautiful. Um, but I think for me, the projects that I've almost gotten or wanted to get have resonated so much because those characters felt like a part of me and I knew that I was the only person that could play them. Sometimes I didn't get them, um, and sometimes I got really close. But I do think a personal connection is part of that driving force we were talking about and the thing that like pushes you uphill and it creates this need to where like work doesn't feel like work.

[33:02] Robert Peterpaul: Well, I think everything you're you were just saying was really valuable and cool because it gets very freeing as an artist when you sort of realize, you know, you follow what your bliss is and what your passion is and you put everything into it, but at the end of the day, if you have that mentality, like you were saying, of the right person's gonna get the job, it's yeah, you can just kind of unlock and have fun because we're all just trying to do what we wanted to do when we were kids.

[33:24] Emily Ruhl: And I think so too. And I think one of the things I realized, because I got to cast other people, which was a really interesting experience, um, and really wonderful, is that like, because I used to think like, well, what if I just make the wrong choices? Like, what if I just interpret this wrong? What if I wear the wrong thing? And then I kind of realized like, as long as you have a strong choice, and you like read the material and it's logically based, like there kind of is no wrong choice because anything you're filling in is something that they don't really know yet. Yeah, you know, and it's and and they might not know what they want until they see it. I mean, I know that that was the case for me.

I like I had a general archetype in my head, but then somebody would audition for something and I'd want them to audition for different role, and they did something I'd never thought of that was absolutely brilliant. And I think realizing that like writers and directors just want you to kind of take their idea and make it better. Yeah, you know, is it was a really big revelation.

[34:20] Robert Peterpaul: So well, speaking of really big revelations, I would love to know, and it can have to do with casting too, and maybe that was it, but what was kind of the most valuable lesson you learned while making your short film that you feel like you are now applying it to the TV show you're making?

[34:33] Emily Ruhl: Oh, you're just so impressive. Um, time management, probably. Like I'm sure there's also a lot of other deep things as far as like how to be a team and like, you know, making sure that like people feel seen and heard from the top to the bottom. Um, but I think time management is probably the biggest thing and like how to delegate, um, and how to like what to look for when you build your team, whether that's producers or assistants or ADs or cinematographers, or there's so many little things now that I think about that I didn't really think about before. I mean, even yesterday I was talking to my acting coach about like we did a scene, um, it was supposed to be my character's apartment in New York, and I'd wish that I had actually sat in that apartment and eaten my lunch there and like moved around that space a little bit more.

So I think there's lots of different things, but I think time blocking is a huge thing. Because it's the only way to really get everything done in the day, and to be able to concentrate while also completing different tasks because I I don't know if multitasking really exists. You know, at least for me, I find that if I'm doing something, it's best to be as present as possible.

[35:44] Robert Peterpaul: I love that. I appreciate that. I try to do that too. But speaking of time management, I don't want to keep you too much longer because I know um we have to go soon. So I would love if we could play a surprise game if you're down.

[35:57] Emily Ruhl: I love that.

[35:57] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[35:58] Emily Ruhl: Okay.

[35:58] Robert Peterpaul: A surprise game, yes.

[35:59] Emily Ruhl: It's called the compliment game because you haven't gotten enough compliments already. And basically, I reached out to someone in your life, speaking of sliding into DMs for a compliment or a statement of what they love about you, and then you have to guess who said it.

[36:15] Emily Ruhl: Everyone's beautiful in their way. It's the compliments game on me.

[36:17] Robert Peterpaul: Yay, okay.

[36:19] Emily Ruhl: It's the compliment.

[36:20] Robert Peterpaul: Compliment, yay.

[36:24] Emily Ruhl: Mom.

[36:25] Robert Peterpaul: Okay, I love it.

[36:27] Robert Peterpaul: Okay. Um, so I people freak out if there's no rule. So I'm gonna read you the statement, and we'll say you get three guesses, and you can ask me yes or no questions to try and figure it out. But Emily, I don't like I really don't know anything. So I'll try to help you. Okay. I think actually you'll get it right away. Here's your quote. Emily is constantly iterating, always working toward being the best version of herself, and she's not afraid to make a statement. I mean, who else wears a fur coat and Gucci slides for LASIK eye surgery? Thank you, Emily, for helping me rethink my surgery choice. And then she put a lot of hearts. Oh, I just gave you a hint. No, that's okay. I I think it's Emily, Emily, my friend Emily.

[37:15] Emily Ruhl: Yes.

[37:16] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, Emily Emily Lunch.

[37:17] Emily Ruhl: Yes.

[37:18] Robert Peterpaul: Yes. I love her so much. That's so sweet. Yeah, she took me to get my LASIK eye surgery, and I decided to dress up as like an elderly woman with like a like a Dior scarf around my head and like slides and like a fur because I was so out of it. Because they give you like some sort of, you know, sedative.

[37:37] Emily Ruhl: That's sweet. This is incredible. You probably could have been in like a character in Hacks or something.

[37:42] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, for sure.

[37:43] Emily Ruhl: Yeah.

[37:43] Robert Peterpaul: That's amazing. Well, she thank you, Emily. She really took time. Because she like had ideas and then she got back to me, and then she kind of, yeah. So she was really happy to do this for you. So I'm glad you got it. You didn't even need a hint.

[37:56] Emily Ruhl: Thanks. So I think just before I let you go, I would love to know if you could please share any tangible kindness or wellness tips you have that you think listeners can take with them and incorporate into their day. And if you can't think of anything kind of practical, like a lot of people talk about when you pass someone on the street, just smile at them. That's like a simple way to spread kindness. If you don't have anything kind of tangible, you can also just share your favorite inspirational quote or something that motivates you or inspires you.

[38:28] Robert Peterpaul: Hmm.

[38:30] Emily Ruhl: I mean, something that came up when you when you were speaking was like taking a moment before the day gets started and counting the things that you're grateful for, and making sure the people in your life, which we talked a little bit about earlier, know that they're meaningful to you. And I just I think saying thank you and seeing people and making eye contact and holding doors open, um, and genuine compliments, you know. And I think that almost resonates back to like if somebody's meaningful to you, you should express that gratitude to them.

[39:02] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[39:02] Emily Ruhl: I think that's it. I wish I could come up with a quote because a belief I have a whole Pinterest folder of them and the fact I cannot cite one to you. Um, I think what you said is beautiful. I think that's really beautiful. And it's hard, right? Because sometimes we're actually kinder to strangers. I mean, which is great, but you know, we're a little bit kinder to the people that are not as close to us, and we can kind of take the people close to us for granted. So I think it's that nice balance of just seeing people coming from where you are and making sure everybody knows that you love them. Because we're all on this earth together. I don't know, not to get too weird.

[39:38] Emily Ruhl: There's actually a little story I'd like to share really quick before we wrap up. Um I was at a at an audition, and uh there was kind of maybe 10 other girls there, and after the audition I realized I had lost my phone and I had Ubered there. So I had no way of getting home. And there was a mom there with her daughter who just auditioned for the same part, who ended up offering to drive me home and made sure I got there all safe um and sound. And it was incredibly meaningful to me and special, and uh I ended up finding my phone in my bag. So the whole thing was was was interesting, but I um it was a moment of kindness that like I've never forgotten. I don't remember her name, but like a massive thank you for that.

[40:21] Robert Peterpaul: That is such a sweet act of kindness.

[40:23] Emily Ruhl: Yeah, I think so too. And I also think, you know, and and you had your phone the whole time, which is so funny, but I think it maybe was meant to just be a reminder to you that people are.

[40:32] Robert Peterpaul: I think so too.

[40:33] Emily Ruhl: Yeah, it's something I think about often.

[40:35] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[40:36] Emily Ruhl: And to that person too. And we should, like we were talking about to wrap this baby home full circle earlier. When you compliment people, if you like accept kindness from people, it makes people feel really good to be of service.

[40:46] Robert Peterpaul: I think so too.

[40:47] Emily Ruhl: You know, we all want to do that. I want to give someone the perfect birthday gift. I want to make somebody happy when I hold the door open. So accepting that is part of kindness too. And I think that's an awesome story. Amazing. Thank you so much. This is so much fun.

[41:00] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, thank you.

[41:01] Emily Ruhl: Yeah, it was so lovely. I'm so glad I got to meet you.

[41:04] Robert Peterpaul: Same. This was awesome. Thanks.

[41:06] Emily Ruhl: Oh, thank you.

[41:07] Robert Peterpaul: Bye.

[41:07] Emily Ruhl: Hi. Now I've got to call Emily.

[41:09] Robert Peterpaul: I know.

[41:09] Emily Ruhl: Oh my gosh.

[41:10] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, she was awesome. That's so thank you so much.

[41:13] Emily Ruhl: Thanks for making my day. I really appreciate it.

[41:19] Robert Peterpaul: And now it's time for your kindness tip of the week.

[41:27] Robert Peterpaul: Hello again. We are joined by a very special surprise guest for the end of this very special episode. The one. The only Cassie, my fiance.

[41:38] Cassie: Woohoo! Hi, A O Kers.

[41:41] Robert Peterpaul: Hello. Okay. So I figure since September's a tough time of year for everyone, especially with September 11th, and then you know, teachers are going back to school, which Cassie can empathize with. There's just a lot going on. So I have five kindness tips here that I think would be super simple and yet have a big impact. So they were inspired by our friend Kevin Turf's Pay It Forward 911 charity. And I'm gonna read them to you now. They're also on our Instagram.

[42:10] Cassie: Oh, can I read some?

[42:10] Robert Peterpaul: Oh yeah, that might yeah, that probably makes sense.

[42:12] Cassie: Okay, why don't you take the first one?

[42:14] Robert Peterpaul: Okay, great. Okay. Number one is treat your local healthcare heroes, teachers, and first responders to gift cards, food, or snacks.

[42:23] Cassie: That sounds good, right?

[42:24] Robert Peterpaul: Oh my gosh, yeah. I mean, food is the way to my heart. You know that.

[42:28] Cassie: Yeah, I do. I mean, you could send pizza to your local firehouse. My brother's a firefighter. Shout out, Will, what what? Doing the good work. You can can you pay for a teacher's lunch? Like, can you send bagels for breakfast?

[42:39] Robert Peterpaul: Good question.

[42:40] Cassie: I mean, yeah, you could always drop it off. I mean, you should have some affiliation with the school so it's not creepy, but yeah.

[42:46] Robert Peterpaul: Well, that's probably preferred.

[42:48] Cassie: Yes. But I think you can also, or even if you know, if you have someone being treated at the hospital.

[42:52] Robert Peterpaul: Yep.

[42:53] Cassie: Uh, we've had family members who have paid for lunches, that kind of thing.

[42:57] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, those food trains that they start.

[42:59] Cassie: Yeah, it's super easy to do, and yet it just makes people feel loved and valued. So that's a good one.

[43:04] Robert Peterpaul: All right, that was only number one. So we gotta reel it in.

[43:06] Cassie: Okay. Number two, pay for the coffee of the person behind you in line.

[43:12] Robert Peterpaul: Can I one up this a little bit?

[43:14] Cassie: Oh, sure, please.

[43:15] Robert Peterpaul: Because I've been told, and this is a great, I love that tip, um, but another way you can do it, and maybe you do this on top of it, is to use that money to tip the workers extra.

[43:26] Cassie: So that that's actually going towards them because they're doing the good work too.

[43:30] Robert Peterpaul: And you could pay for, you could maybe say, pay for the person behind me, and here's an extra tip.

[43:35] Cassie: Yeah, actually, you know what you can also do, which Kevin Turf, again, the wonderful Kevin Turf, who is the real Kevin T from the Come From Away musical, said in a conversation I had with him that he threw the charity or someone through the charity got a gift card at Starbucks or the local coffee shop, gave it to the cashier or the lovely barista behind the register, and said, This will be used to pay it forward. So please give this to the next person and use it to pay for their coffee and then encourage them to pay it forward. So I guess I I don't know if it was him or someone else, but he came back to that coffee shop, and it turned out like a year later the gift card was still there and people were filling it up.

[44:16] Cassie: Oh, that's so cool.

[44:17] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, so I think that's an awesome way too.

[44:19] Cassie: Okay. Number three.

[44:21] Robert Peterpaul: Support a senior by volunteering for an organization in your community.

[44:26] Cassie: Oh, we love seniors.

[44:27] Robert Peterpaul: We do.

[44:28] Cassie: Not just seniors in in high school.

[44:29] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah or college.

[44:30] Cassie: They're good. Seniors the best.

[44:31] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[44:32] Cassie: But yeah, your seniors. I mean, there are people unfortunately that are lonely and looking for people to read to them, just to talk with them. It's kind of a lovely way to volunteer. And also it doesn't have to be anything super crazy or official. You can drop off dinner for your elderly neighbor. You can just take the paper in for them without them knowing. I mean, there's lots of little things you can do. My mom was was the best. We had this elderly neighbor when we uh moved in, and my mom took care of her to the to the very end. So she uh she led by example. She is the the poster child for this tip.

[45:05] Robert Peterpaul: Yes, and your dad too my dad too.

[45:08] Cassie: Oh my gosh.

[45:08] Robert Peterpaul: Your neighbors now I know he likes snow blows their driveway and sometimes there's injuries, but you know, it's like that's a different podcast, different story.

[45:17] Cassie: And my parents too.

[45:18] Robert Peterpaul: They everybody does lots of wonderful things like that.

[45:23] Cassie: Yes, my dad always goes up to see his parents down the shore.

[45:26] Robert Peterpaul: And uh we're mom is a great conversationalist with everyone she encounters and people who are lonely.

[45:32] Cassie: Oh, for sure. It's just it's great. We gotta support each other in this community, specifically the elders for number three.

[45:38] Robert Peterpaul: Okay, number four.

[45:39] Cassie: That's you.

[45:40] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, it's me. This is a pretty simple one that I've said on here a lot. But text someone you love that you love them.

[45:46] Cassie: I love that.

[45:47] Robert Peterpaul: You know? Today's September 11th. I've gotten a lot of lovely texts from people, which is so beautiful. Just remembering my brother and sending love to our family. It takes three seconds, but it really makes all the difference. So do that right now. Pause this and then come back for number five.

[46:03] Cassie: Did you do it? Did you text someone?

[46:05] Robert Peterpaul: I hope should we should probably do that too.

[46:06] Cassie: Yeah, we'll do that right after.

[46:08] Robert Peterpaul: Okay. Number five.

[46:10] Cassie: Leave a flower or sweet note on a stranger's car or in their mailbox.

[46:14] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, how lovely.

[46:15] Cassie: You come to your car and instead of a ticket, you see a flower.

[46:18] Robert Peterpaul: See, I like this because my sister Julia actually was the one that kind of first made me aware of this. Said she had this lovely looking paper flower in her car, and I was like, Where'd you get this?

[46:28] Cassie: And it was hanging from her mirror.

[46:31] Robert Peterpaul: From her, what is it called? Um her mirror.

[46:36] Cassie: From her car, her car mirror thing hanging from the ceiling.

[46:39] Robert Peterpaul: Wow, we need coffee. And this is it it's the morning. Is it the morning?

[46:44] Cassie: Well, never mind.

[46:46] Robert Peterpaul: So she had that there and I asked her about it, and she said somebody just left it on her car windshield.

[46:50] Cassie: I love that.

[46:51] Robert Peterpaul: Have you seen the TikTok one too of this guy who collects different um model cars?

[46:56] Cassie: And when he sees that real car in person, he'll gift them the model car, and then he watches them when they discover it and they get so excited.

[47:04] Robert Peterpaul: It's really cute.

[47:05] Cassie: Oh, that is cute.

[47:06] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, I've also thought about doing it, writing letters and then leaving them in uh the mailbox of a beautiful house that you want to purchase one day. But then that's that kind of has a motive, you know.

[47:15] Cassie: If you leave your email and say I'll be.

[47:16] Robert Peterpaul: If you did that, you'd be writing tons of notes because you admire most houses.

[47:20] Cassie: I do love houses.

[47:21] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, I like a good a good house tour.

[47:23] Cassie: Yeah.

[47:24] Robert Peterpaul: Okay, walking around and pointing.

[47:26] Cassie: Yeah.

[47:26] Robert Peterpaul: We're right right now, we have a lovely place, lovely apartment.

[47:28] Cassie: So grateful for that.

[47:29] Robert Peterpaul: Grateful for you all. Thank you again for tuning in for another episode of the Art of Kindness Podcast. If you want to catch up in the meantime, you can find us on social media. Or, you know, you can email us at artofkidnesspodcast@gmail.com. We would love to hear from you.

[47:44] Cassie: Yes.

[47:44] Robert Peterpaul: And happy September, everyone.

[47:46] Cassie: Yeah, happy September. Take in the fall. Go get a pumpkin spice latte. Be basic.

[47:50] Robert Peterpaul: I've already decorated for Halloween.

[47:52] Cassie: I'm looking at our decorations.

[47:54] Robert Peterpaul: Against my wishes. But you know what? We're all in now.

[47:56] Cassie: You were supportive.

[47:57] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. You just were like, it's a little early, but you know, Labor Day is.

[48:04] Cassie: Anyway, sorry.

[48:08] Robert Peterpaul: Yes. Love you all. Have a wonderful day. And remember, until next time.

[48:13] Cassie: Everything's gonna be A-O-K.

[48:16] Robert Peterpaul: Oh Audio Hug.