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[0:00] Robert Peterpaul: Hello, beautiful people. Welcome to The Art of Kindness, where we have compassionate conversations with artists from all areas of the entertainment industry who are using their voice to spread joy and make this big, spinning planet in the sky a better place to be. I'm Robert Peterpaul, and I'm so glad you're here!

[0:30] Robert Peterpaul: Today is February 28th, unless you're listening in the future. In that case, hello, people of the future! Does everyone have flying cars yet? Anyway, today marks the end of Black History Month. Of course, Black History isn't confined to a month, and should be celebrated all year long!

[0:56] Robert Peterpaul: Today's guest is Joanna Alexis Jones. Joanna is a proud California native and received a bachelor's degree in theater from UCLA. She left college in the middle of her senior year after booking the West End production of a Michael Jackson musical called Thriller Live. Over the years, the triple threat has been seen in many incredible productions, including NBC's Hairspray Live. In 2017, she made her Broadway debut with none other than Hamilton as Peggy Schuyler and Maria Reynolds.

[1:25] Robert Peterpaul: Now, Joanna takes on a new role in the same show across the country, playing Eliza Hamilton in the Los Angeles production of the smash hit musical.

[1:35] Robert Peterpaul: About a month ago, Joanna so kindly took some time to chat with me about getting back into performance mode with a giant show like Hamilton after the world stopped, growing up as a pastor's daughter, learning to love the crazy circuit that is auditioning, and much more.

[1:51] Robert Peterpaul: Before we get into today's chat, I want to take a moment to thank you all for your wonderful reviews and feedback on the show. These reviews really mean the world to us. As a reminder, you can connect with our team on social media at ArtofKindnessPod and at RobPeterPaul.

[2:05] Robert Peterpaul: Now, without further ado, please welcome the joyful Joanna Alexis Jones.

[2:22] Joanna Alexis Jones: Hi!

[2:23] Robert Peterpaul: Hi, how are you?

[2:26] Joanna Alexis Jones: Hi, I'm well. How are you? Nice to meet you, see you, anything.

[2:32] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, you too. I know. I'm so excited to talk to you today. And I thank you so much for doing this. I've been really looking forward to talking to you.

[2:38] Joanna Alexis Jones: Well, I'm excited to be here. Thanks so much for having me.

[2:41] Robert Peterpaul: Of course, the second I logged into the Zoom, someone decided to start drilling in this apartment building, so...

[2:46] Joanna Alexis Jones: No, of course.

[2:48] Robert Peterpaul: You know, we're just gonna go with it. The show must go on. I think we'll be okay. That's only happened a handful of times. Usually it's a lawnmower outside that I think someone literally hired just to annoy me.

[2:58] Joanna Alexis Jones: No, where are you?

[3:00] Robert Peterpaul: I'm in Connecticut, just outside of New York City.

[3:03] Joanna Alexis Jones: Oh, lovely. I've never been there before, but I hear it's gorgeous.

[3:06] Robert Peterpaul: Really?

[3:07] Joanna Alexis Jones: Yeah.

[3:08] Robert Peterpaul: It is.

[3:09] Joanna Alexis Jones: I'm a West Coast girl, so I haven't seen a lot of the East Coast besides New York City.

[3:13] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, you were born in California, right?

[3:15] Joanna Alexis Jones: Yeah, born and raised.

[3:17] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, very nice. All right, well, I'm gonna do a long and very complimentary intro about you. I won't make you sit here and listen to it, because I know that, like, I would feel awkward. I mean, I feel awkward no matter what I say.

[3:28] Joanna Alexis Jones: Me too, me too.

[3:29] Robert Peterpaul: Okay, good. Now that we got that out there, I feel great.

[3:32] Joanna Alexis Jones: Me too.

[3:34] Robert Peterpaul: But it is so wonderful to see you. I guess, first of all, how are you doing in these crazy times?

[3:39] Joanna Alexis Jones: Well, funnily enough, I just completed my 10 days of COVID isolation. I know, I know. So I'm allowed to be back into the crazy world, so that's nice.

[3:50] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[3:51] Joanna Alexis Jones: But it's, you know, it's strange times over here. The show in LA is shut down for a few weeks to deal with, you know, some outbreaks and just some issues. So it kind of feels a little reminiscent of 2020, where I'm just at home, not really allowed to do a lot of stuff. And it's like deja vu.

[4:07] Robert Peterpaul: I know.

[4:08] Joanna Alexis Jones: But we'll get through.

[4:10] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, things are good. Thanks. Everything's shutting down. It's similar. I mean, Broadway's obviously shutting down. And I'm in a regional theater production right now. And we just took a huge hiatus. So we're coming back in a month. So I'm excited to be back.

[4:24] Joanna Alexis Jones: But I guess just the great thing is everybody's safe. And we're in a better place than we were in 2022, which I think is when we all felt that turmoil. So when I was looking at your career and where you are now, I really just wanted to ask you a question.

[4:41] Joanna Alexis Jones: I won't lie, you know, it was really anxiety inducing.

[4:44] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[4:46] Joanna Alexis Jones: I think, you know, you forget how much it takes to perform in front of that many people.

[4:52] Robert Peterpaul: Right.

[4:52] Joanna Alexis Jones: And not having done that for a year and a half, it's just been a really hard time.

[4:57] Robert Peterpaul: I think, you know, it was really anxiety inducing.

[4:59] Joanna Alexis Jones: Yeah.

[5:00] Joanna Alexis Jones: I think, you know, you forget how much it takes to perform in front of that many people.

[5:04] Joanna Alexis Jones: And not having done that for a year and a half, it's just been a really hard time.

[5:07] Robert Peterpaul: And I'm glad that you're back.

[5:08] Joanna Alexis Jones: Yeah.

[5:09] Robert Peterpaul: I'm glad that you're back.

[5:10] Joanna Alexis Jones: Yeah.

[5:11] Robert Peterpaul: I'm glad that you're back.

[5:13] Joanna Alexis Jones: I'm glad that you're back.

[5:14] Joanna Alexis Jones: I'm glad that you're back.

[5:45] Joanna Alexis Jones: They really nurtured us through the first few weeks of rehearsal and made us feel safe. So that was good.

[5:51] Joanna Alexis Jones: But then of course, once I got over the nerves, it really was a joyous thing to remember the magic of performing live and remember why we do what we do, especially because the audience was just so thrilled to be there, like to hear the sound of their joy at being able to be back at live theater and hear stories being told. It was just an excellent reminder of why we do what we do.

[6:19] Joanna Alexis Jones: And so it was twofold anxiety inducing and also just like, oh, this is wonderful. I'm back to doing what I'm meant to do.

[6:26] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, I think that's a great way to put it. I remember seeing the videos when Wicked opened when they got maybe two or three minutes standing ovation. I mean, Kay Chen introduced it, which I'm sure helped, but you know, oh my goodness.

[6:37] Joanna Alexis Jones: Yeah.

[6:38] Robert Peterpaul: I love her.

[6:39] Joanna Alexis Jones: You worked with her, didn't you?

[6:40] Joanna Alexis Jones: In Hairspray Live.

[6:42] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, actually.

[6:43] Joanna Alexis Jones: Yeah.

[6:44] Robert Peterpaul: She's fabulous.

[6:45] Joanna Alexis Jones: She's an absolute queen.

[6:46] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[6:47] Joanna Alexis Jones: Only wonderful things to say.

[6:48] Robert Peterpaul: She's amazing.

[6:49] Joanna Alexis Jones: Totally.

[6:50] Joanna Alexis Jones: I've gotten to interview her a couple of times. I've been lucky. And she's just such a ball of light and so joyful.

[6:56] Robert Peterpaul: But all right. I'm going on a tangent. I think that's a really important point to bring up, because I know even now when you go into the hallway of your apartment, just seeing like one person or meeting up with friends again, it's a lot of energy. So having that in the theater times, you know, a hundred or whatever it is, you probably feel a little guilty too, right? Because you're so lucky to be doing it and you know, it's your dream. And then you're like, no, I do love this.

[7:16] Joanna Alexis Jones: Right.

[7:19] Joanna Alexis Jones: I love this. But I think kind of normalizing the fact that it's okay to have anxiety, like Simone Biles in the Olympics. We did that recently. Things like that. It's really important. So I'm glad you said that and gave me an honest answer.

[7:30] Joanna Alexis Jones: No, absolutely. I think that's something good that did come out of the pandemic, actually, is that people made space for people to not always be okay, you know, because I think it's pretty normal at this point to have gone through some level of anxiety or depression or some struggle from how the last couple of years have been. And so for us all to be like, oh, you too? Okay, great. So I'm not alone. We all kind of feel like this and that's human and normal. And let's create space for that and then move forward together.

[7:58] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[7:59] Joanna Alexis Jones: Ah, so eloquently said. I'm going to ask you about Hamilton, and I want to get into everything. But as a phenomenally talented person, I would like to start out by asking you, how are you at taking compliments? Because I think as artists, we get a lot of them, especially at the stage door. You almost get immediate feedback. How do you find yourself to be at taking them?

[8:21] Joanna Alexis Jones: It's uncomfortable. Definitely. Well, get ready for my next paragraph. No, I'm just kidding. I try to get better at it. I think it's uncomfortable for me because I want to be able to express gratitude back. But I don't really know how to in a way that comes off as genuine. So when people are saying a lot of nice things to me, like, what else do you say besides thank you? Oh, like, oh, that's so sweet. Like, I don't know. I feel like it doesn't come off as genuine when I try to express gratitude for it. And it just feels uncomfortable sometimes. I don't know why to receive a lot of nice things being said to you, because I don't know how to. I always want to give something back to them, and I don't always know how.

[9:03] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[9:04] Joanna Alexis Jones: Joanna, I think you crack the code. I feel like I always start out asking that question for some reason, and I've asked it so many times. And that's the first time someone put into words, I think exactly how I feel, which is you want to give something back and you really can't. And then saying thank you feels awkward. So you kind of just run away. So it's like that. And then you probably look like an asshole, but you don't mean to be. You know what I mean?

[9:25] Joanna Alexis Jones: Yes.

[9:27] Joanna Alexis Jones: Yeah. I kind of feel that too.

[9:29] Robert Peterpaul: Yes.

[9:30] Joanna Alexis Jones: And I think most people have kind of touched on that, but you just put it in a great way. So I really think that's awesome. It's just so weird because we want it. And then when we get it, it's like, we feel like we don't deserve it. And I'm sure there's all these other things going on. Imposter syndrome and all that, you know?

[9:45] Joanna Alexis Jones: Yeah.

[9:46] Joanna Alexis Jones: And I think it goes hand in hand with kindness, which is obviously what we're here to talk about today. Kindness in the arts.

[9:49] Robert Peterpaul: Yes.

[9:52] Joanna Alexis Jones: Just to start out, I would love to know what is your definition of kindness?

[9:57] Joanna Alexis Jones: Yeah. I think it's so cool. There's so many different ways to interpret kindness, I guess. For me, I think of it as being intentionally gracious towards others because you can. And I think sometimes there's another element that involves sacrifice in it, like being kind to people and putting others first, even when it might cost you something, even when it's not necessarily convenient or you don't feel like it, but choosing to be gracious towards someone in those moments.

[10:30] Joanna Alexis Jones: Yeah, that's kind of what it means to me.

[10:33] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. It definitely involves a lot of compromising and always striving to be kind. There's no way you can always be kind and be perfect. We all have these off days, obviously. And yeah, yeah, I think that's an awesome way to put it. Just striving to be good. And when you're not, owning up and apologizing because that's part of kindness, too. It's just being authentic, I think. So thank you for sharing that definition.

[10:55] Joanna Alexis Jones: Yeah, absolutely. Do you feel like kindness was something you learned growing up in California with your family or do you think now you have a better understanding of everything under that crazy umbrella, whether it's like self-care, self-love, all that stuff?

[11:09] Joanna Alexis Jones: No, I a thousand percent grew up in a home learning about kindness. I grew up in church and my dad was a pastor and so I grew up in Sunday school and stuff and we really just were always cultivating an environment of love and kindness and just trying to be like more like how God would want us to be. Like God is love and God is kind. So we want to be like him. We should be kind to other people. And, you know, there's biblical principles involved with that, like treat others how you would like to be treated. And yeah, and you reap what you sow, you know, like what you put into, you can receive back. And so I had examples of kindness all around me growing up in my community and in the church and from my parents. And so I saw it and it just became.

[11:52] Joanna Alexis Jones: That's hard sometimes. It's like, you know, we are human and I couldn't always live up to that. But at least, at least I knew that when I wasn't being kind, like I knew, like I would feel it. I'd be like, oh, that didn't feel right. Like that didn't feel like the best version of myself. That didn't feel like the best example of like showing God's love to other people. So let me just rewind and rethink like, why was I acting like that? And how could I not choose that next time? Yes, reflecting. It's just so hard in this social media heavy world where everyone kind of curates themselves and tries to be perfect and their best selves all the time when that's really not possible. So I think, yeah, you probably have some really cool perspective on feeling like, you know, although the church doesn't always put perfection on you, but feeling that pressure and then trying to not veer off it, but also balance it and not veer off your mental health.

[13:19] Joanna Alexis Jones: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And just accept the fact that you are a human and you are going to screw up sometimes. And it's OK because we're all just learning every day. Yeah. Yeah. Humankind. I think we're both right. Yes. So I guess you went on to study performing arts or drama. I'm not sure the specifics, but in California at UCLA. Right.

[13:36] Joanna Alexis Jones: Yeah. I got my degree, my bachelor's degree in musical theater at UCLA. So that was really amazing. Awesome time. Yeah. And then you jumped right into working. Is that you moved to the UK right after that?

[13:46] Joanna Alexis Jones: I did. Yeah, actually, I ended up having to graduate early. It was kind of unexpected during my senior year at UCLA. I randomly got these my first agents and the first audition I went on just happened to be this show on the West End in the UK. And I guess it was just meant to be because I booked it. And so I was like, oh, like, do I want to leave college early? Like, I think this is such a big opportunity. I honestly can't pass it up. I was like, this is what I've been training for. So why would I not take this? And I'm just so adventurous. I was like, I want to go on an adventure. And so I figured out how to graduate early. I had enough credits and stuff. And I moved to London when I was 21 and spent a year out there doing a show on the West End.

And it was great because I was like more training was on the drop train. It was like applying what I had just learned into the HO week there. So wow, really awesome. And that's really the best way to learn, I think, is on the job.

[14:47] Joanna Alexis Jones: I feel so, too. Yeah, that's really cool. That's a huge decision to make, especially not finishing school all the way. I mean, it sounds like you did and maybe a truncated version. But how do you make those decisions? Are you a pros and cons person? Do you just trust your gut? Do you ask people?

[15:01] Joanna Alexis Jones: All of those things. Yeah, I did make a list of pros and cons. I remember doing that. You don't want to see my desk right now. I'm like, I've got so many lists on here. Oh, my God. I know lists are good. They helped me visualize things. So I definitely did that. And I had to go off of my gut as well. You know, of course, being someone spiritual, like I prayed about it. But then I also got a bunch of people's opinions and advice. And I needed all of those things to make that decision, especially because I was young and just needed guidance and stuff. But ultimately, everything just sort of fell into place to where it made sense. And anytime something like that happens where like doors just open and things fall into place, I'm kind of like, OK, this was meant to be like it was it happened to be like, OK, I can graduate early.

They're letting me leave the program like this is working out that they're letting me come later. OK, everything's kind of pointing towards this is the right thing to do. So let me just take a risk and take a step. And it was the right thing to do. It was a very coming of age year for me. And I'm actually British on my mom's side. So I have a lot of family in the UK. And so it was exciting to just be out there and just sort of sit in my mom's culture for a while and be working and having a very coming of age year was awesome.

[16:19] Robert Peterpaul: That's such an incredible way to start. I guess looking back now, do you see any differences in the way you know, I know there are differences in the way audiences react and treat you. But just overall, the theater industry over there, do you find differences in the different places you've worked around the world?

[16:31] Joanna Alexis Jones: The only difference would be like culturally how audiences behave. Like, yeah, like they're a little bit more vocal over there, aren't they?

[16:39] Joanna Alexis Jones: I don't know. Well, maybe for the show I was doing because Michael Jackson show.

[16:44] Joanna Alexis Jones: Yes. Thriller. Right. So people were super, you know, jazzed because it was like a concert. But I don't know. I feel like people are a little more reserved in England in the theater and maybe just a little more.

[16:52] Robert Peterpaul: OK, OK. But I don't know. No, that makes sense. It's been so long. I mean, I was back in 2012. Oh, my gosh. So a long time ago. Time is so weird always. But right now it's just such a time warp. I'm like, where are we? What am I doing? But from there or whenever do any acts of kindness come to mind or stories that you feel like really change the path of your career as you were, you know, starting and gaining credits in the arts?

[17:21] Joanna Alexis Jones: I don't know. That's such a hard question. My first of all, my memory is terrible, but I was saying that's why I ask it because I don't tell it. Yeah. No, I just feel like it's kind of like more of what I said before, like I just made sure that I was treating people with kindness. And so I felt like I was receiving kindness back from other people since early on in my career. You know, if I needed extra help with something or I didn't know what I was doing or something, I feel like there were people along the way who would take me under their wing or would put in extra time to make sure I understood what was going on or explain things to me. And so, yeah, I think I've been really blessed to have met so many wonderful people and wonderful people in each cast that I've been in over the years that have just been kind.

I mean, there are a lot of kind people in our industry. And if you are, like I said, a person who is kind, then you will attract those people into your life. And I wish I had a more specific story. I'll probably think of one as soon as the podcast.

[18:25] Robert Peterpaul: I think that's great. Listen, bubble it. If you think of one, I'll edit it and I'll pop it in. Well, we have a lot of hopefuls out there who would love to be doing what you're doing. And you're sort of living so many people's dreams. I would really like to know, have you learned anything over the years specifically with auditioning? Because I feel like that's one of the most difficult parts of being a performer, especially because they don't really teach you how to get out of your own head, which also you're never going to get out of your own head. I've recently learned. So you might as well embrace it and just let your Judge Judy weird thoughts go by. But have you learned anything that's really helped you with auditioning even now with self taping, which is kind of worse?

I mean, it's it's awesome in a lot of ways, but then you have to watch yourself. You have to light yourself and yourself and all this stuff. I would love to pick your brain. That was a really rambling way of saying, no, please share.

[19:13] Joanna Alexis Jones: Not at all. No, it's you know, to this day, I hate auditioning. I'm just gonna it's it's so hard. It's so awkward. Like it is. Yeah, because they know you want it. And you're like, trying to be.

[19:28] Joanna Alexis Jones: I know. And like you said, it's so it's so hard to get out of your own head. And sometimes like you just no matter how many years you've been doing it, you can still sabotage yourself by the thoughts going on in your head. And so I guess something I've learned is just how to sort of shift my perspective on auditioning. So I think about what can I control versus what can I not control in this situation? So like, I can't control if we're talking about in person auditions. I can't control like the mood of the room I walk into. That's one thing because we've all been in rooms where it's like lovely. And then we've been in rooms where it's like cold. Yeah. And like, like, this is not do you want me to go right immediately when you step into that, like it can affect you, you know?

Yeah. And what else can we not control? Like, I can't control if they already have in mind that what they're looking for, and I'm not it, I can't control that. Like, that has nothing to do with me. Like, there are a million different reasons why I would get cast or not get cast, I don't necessarily get to know. So I guess just focusing on the things that I can control, like, I can control how much I've prepared the specific material that I'm going to present. I can control like, what I'm going to say when I walk in and smile, like, I know that I can do that I can control knowing my intentions and like, whatever song I'm doing. And yeah, yeah, those are things I can control. And the other stuff, I have to just try to like, let it go, like and not make it personal right now make it about myself.

Because I think that's what for me is what's so awkward about auditioning is like, it can feel like you're just going in there to be judged. Like, are you good? Not good. Yeah. And that's hideous. Oh, yeah. So to try and just you just have to focus on the things you can control, which is doing what you do, and then let go of everything else and not take it personally, because there could be a million reasons why you're not the one for the job. And the other thing, like someone told me early on in my career that they, they love auditioning. I was like, what? Like, yeah, right. Why? And he was like, because it's my performance. He was like, I think of it as my performance. He's like, I'm doing a show.

And these people behind the table are my audience. And they've come to watch my performance. And so I the second I walk in, it is my show. And it's my opportunity to perform for them and show my art to them. And I was like, that's interesting. If I try and make that mind shift, like I'm going in there to give them something. Like they're lucky to be watching my show. Yes. And like, trick myself and turn the tables rather than going in there. Like, I really need this job. Yeah, exactly. Oh, I know. Because they can tell. Yeah, they can make that that energy of like, God, I really, really want to get this like that energy sort of they can they can tell and it doesn't always translate well. If you go in like, what will be will be and I'm just here to do my song and it is and then I'm gonna leave and go on with the rest of my day and it is what it is.

And it's really hard to get to that place. But each time is an opportunity to like practice that I guess. The self taping thing, I'm still man like that is really hard. Because like you said, you now have to be an actor, a cinematographer, a director, like a lighting designer, get yourself a reader.

[23:00] Joanna Alexis Jones: Yeah, it's so stressful. Like, yeah, and I, I still don't do well with those. I think what I'm gonna end up starting to do is when I can like go to a taping facility and have someone who does all those things for you is that you just have to work on your performance. Yes. So SAG has a free one. If you're in SAG, you can go and yeah, that's awesome. You schedule a time and it's like a nice little backdrop. And I mean, I've had some interesting experiences there too. But but you know what? It's it's all just a crazy game. I also heard they're supposed to technically pay actors to audition that are in the union. I didn't know that. What? Maybe it's at a certain level. But yeah, I love that. And I'm like, yeah, can we like normalize that?

Come on. Absolutely. And don't you find it more time auditioning than working sometimes? Yeah, 100%. And it also really starts I guess going back to in person auditions. For me, I find it starts the second you walk into the waiting room.

[23:44] Joanna Alexis Jones: I don't know if it's fear, but just knowing there's so many people in one room and there's this crazy virus going around and then you're reading the news and there's just a drain on everybody now.

[24:44] Joanna Alexis Jones: I mean, I don't feel it, I haven't felt like myself since, you know, before the pandemic I personally feel like, I'm fine. There's just something different in the air, like a fog.

[25:14] Robert Peterpaul: So do you think really just focusing on your mental health?

[25:18] Joanna Alexis Jones: I mean, you mentioned meditation and maybe stretching. Yeah, I mean, physical and mental health. But yeah, making sure that you have a set of tools to deal with your anxiety or whatever, I guess, because, you know, we just feel so different every day and you can feel so different from hour to hour is what I've noticed.

[25:36] Joanna Alexis Jones: It's like you start off feeling great and then like an hour later you feel awful. So it's like, OK, if I feel awful and I know I still have to go do like a show, what's in my tool bag to where I know it'll help me come back down to ground level? Like if it's taking a walk alone in the neighborhood in the morning and getting some sun and just like breathing in some fresh air or if it's like FaceTiming, like a loved one that always makes you feel better or like meditating, like I said, or doing yoga or going for some people. It's going to the gym for some people. It's writing and journaling like you have to do those things. You have to do not only when you feel icky, but kind of like before you feel icky, too, to make sure you don't necessarily get to that point.

[26:04] Joanna Alexis Jones: But yeah, that's something I have to be on top of all the time. But then like physically as well, you know, there's the physical element to it as well. There's so many things you have to do to take care of your physical body because it's all connected, you know, mental health and physical health.

[26:17] Robert Peterpaul: It is. It's all connected. Do you think you get a little bit more anxious if you know someone specific is there? Are you someone who likes to know because you're doing Hamilton in L.A., you know? And so I feel like there's some there's some cool audience members popping in and out.

[26:29] Joanna Alexis Jones: Oh, I am so awful with that. I'm like I tell everyone in the show, do not tell me who is here. Yes. Do not tell me. I don't want to know because I said myself out.

[26:44] Joanna Alexis Jones: And it doesn't have to be like a celebrity. It can just be like someone I know, like I really value their opinion or. Oh, yeah, that's worse for me. Yeah, it's awful. I'll be like so-and-so in the audience and they're judging me. Like, no, they're not. They're not doing that, but I've convinced myself that they are. And yeah, they hated that face I just made. You know, she wasn't in the moment there. She cracked on that like.

[27:01] Joanna Alexis Jones: And so I really have to work at like letting that go, which I started to get better at. But I still prefer not to know if a celebrity or someone or even if a creative team member is there. I'm like, oh, I don't want to know. I don't want to know.

[27:18] Joanna Alexis Jones: Yeah, because I don't want it to change my performance. Now I'm suddenly like acting like a robot on stage and doing things I've never done before because I'm randomly thinking about this person sitting in the audience.

[27:31] Robert Peterpaul: I know. It's so annoying.

[27:33] Joanna Alexis Jones: It is. I can tell you, I worked for David Korns for a little bit, the set designer of Hamilton. Yeah, which is a really interesting. I did his social media and marketing, but it was a really interesting day job. And I got to pop in his shows a lot. And it was really cool as a performer, because when he would go there, people would get nervous because he'd be with other team members or whatever. But they're not looking at you. They don't even care what the actors are doing. He's looking at the turntable and the lighting or whatever, you know.

[28:01] Joanna Alexis Jones: It is cool to remember the bigger picture because we all get like that. So I'm glad you said that.

[28:04] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[28:05] Joanna Alexis Jones: I like what you said. It's not about you.

[28:07] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[28:08] Joanna Alexis Jones: That's what gets in my way a lot of the time. It's like, stop making this about you. Like, it's not about you. It's about the show. It's about us.

[28:14] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[28:15] Joanna Alexis Jones: That's awesome. No, it's hard. Hang out of your own head.

[28:18] Robert Peterpaul: I know. It's like a theme.

[28:20] Joanna Alexis Jones: I know. I should change the name of my podcast.

[28:22] Robert Peterpaul: No, I love the name.

[28:23] Joanna Alexis Jones: Oh, thank you. Well, on the other end, I guess like in a happier space, do you have any stories of acts of kindness that you can share either backstage or on stage, you know, with Hamilton and your castmates or anything at the stage door that's happened to you that's just never left you and kind of touched your heart?

[28:42] Joanna Alexis Jones: Oh, again, I'm so bad at specifics. I'm channeling my Oprah. I'm like, OK, it's so hard for me not to be like a weirdo. I'm like, do you love me? No, I mean, I should be able to like tell stories, but I just like go by like feelings and moments. And I don't know. That's really healthy.

[29:01] Joanna Alexis Jones: The cast that I am with right now, actually the whole everyone who is working with the production of Hamilton in Los Angeles right now is like amazing. It is actually a group of kind, generous people and souls. And we have like a group chat going on that if anyone is ever having an issue with anything and like puts it in there, everyone is just diving in like, hey, I'm praying for you. Like, let me know I can help. Let me drop something off for you. Like people are just like offering up their kindness at all times amongst the cast and stuff.

[29:31] Joanna Alexis Jones: And so it really already is like an environment of kindness. And I feel really safe and lucky to be in that environment. And it just makes going to work better in the first place.

[29:43] Joanna Alexis Jones: Yeah. Someone got injured like before, literally before we started any performances like the day before and had to like be out of the show. And yeah. And like get surgery and do all this stuff. Like it was so unexpected. And the cast was like, how can we help? Like, what can we do? They set up like a fund so that this person could have like meals brought like meals prepped by this chef and like dropped off to them every day for like several weeks.

[30:11] Joanna Alexis Jones: Like we all like gave money to this fund and like people would go and drive out and pick it up from this chef and drop it off at his house. And yeah, it's just little things like that. Everyone rallies together to take care of each other because it's like a family environment. And so that's really a beautiful thing to be a part of.

[30:28] Joanna Alexis Jones: And other than that, you know, we're not really allowed to do stage door right now because of COVID. Like there's literally signs up there that's like no gathering, no crowds. But people still go anyway, of course. And like they try for it. And so I guess like sometimes even though like we're not supposed to, I'll just be like, oh, like I'll just take a picture with them because like you never know like what that means to that person.

[30:51] Joanna Alexis Jones: Or like if it's like a little girl like dressed up as Eliza, like you never know what that means to go out and let her take a picture with you and how that's going to affect her later on in her life. Like maybe that's the thing that made her decide she wanted to do theater or something like that. So I try to just look for opportunities to connect with people like when I feel like it's safe and like when it just like feels like the right thing to do in the moment.

[31:13] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, that's so sweet. And look at, you know, bringing it back to K-Chan. Look at the K-Chan Ariana Grande photo that's been floating around when she was little and went to see Wicked and has a picture with her as Glinda before she was a superstar.

[31:27] Joanna Alexis Jones: So you really do never know. And it's just it's great to do that when you can because you're touching so many people's lives. You can never know how many, you know, especially when you're in a show. And so just to have that moment and like kind of spread that kindness around, I think it's a really beautiful thing. And it's a special part of theater specifically that we don't get with TV film.

[31:44] Joanna Alexis Jones: Yeah. And I think that, you know, something I've noticed is that it's easy sometimes as an actor. I'll just speak for myself to like just be like, oh, everything is about me and the cast and the people that I directly like interact with, you know, and sometimes like I forget like, no, like there's an entire group of people that like the show would not go on without like without them, like the crew and like people that come in and do things during the day while we're not even there.

[32:06] Joanna Alexis Jones: And so that's the other way I try to like try to like intentionally cultivate an environment of kindness and is by connecting with people that I don't always like interact with, like on my track, but that I go out of my way to say hi to or like memorize their name or ask them how they're doing, like people that do day work and people that are in the crew and stuff like that.

[32:28] Joanna Alexis Jones: I don't know, because everyone is so important, like everyone has a job to do and they all matter just because I don't really interact with them. And I'm the one that's on stage and stuff like these people's jobs are really important as well. And so that's something I've learned over the years as well as to like try and connect with everybody in the theater and interact with them and let them know that they matter just because they're not on stage in spotlights, you know, like everyone's job is important.

[32:55] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, it's so collaborative. And the show would not go on without every single job and every single person there. So it's important to remember that.

[33:04] Joanna Alexis Jones: I guess looking at that big picture and everybody, do you see any specific ways that we can improve a little bit in the arts or in theater specifically to make it a better and kinder place?

[33:17] Joanna Alexis Jones: I mean, I'm so happy that the understudies have been getting a lot of attention these past couple of weeks with all the articles that have been going around because the expectations on swings and understudies are insane. God bless.

[33:30] Joanna Alexis Jones: And they get no credit. I know! Not that that's what it's about, but you know, anything like that.

[35:37] Joanna Alexis Jones: And even the word understudy, I mean, it's like, I know, you know, I know. No, I agree with that. That's such a great point to bring up. I think that maybe that's the way that it could improve is like, I don't know, there's just more celebration of those people. And like, yeah, of the people because they hold up the show like they are holding up the shows like, yeah, all star, they're all stars. But what they do, like we cannot do the show without them. I guess other ways that the industry can improve with kindness is, I don't know, I just guess more inclusivity, which is what we've been talking about for a long time as well. I feel like the more inclusive we are in casting, and even on like the producing side, like I think that...

[36:23] Robert Peterpaul: Motorcycle.

[36:25] Joanna Alexis Jones: Was that me or you?

[36:26] Robert Peterpaul: I think it was you, but that's fine.

[36:27] Joanna Alexis Jones: I think it was me. Yeah, I just don't want your point to get covered up. Thank you. I think more inclusivity is a way that the industry could improve and is a way to spread more kindness is just by like having more people represented and have more opportunities for learning about each other and cultivating more kindness is for including more people, you know, both racially and different gender identities. Like the more inclusive we are, the more opportunities to create kindness and learn about each other and be more active listeners we'll have. So, and that's on the, for me, that's really on the creative side as well. I just feel like there should be more representation across the board in the work that's getting produced and like, and the people who are producing and the people who are directing and music directing. If there is more representation in all of those areas, there are just more opportunities to learn and grow and be kind to each other.

[37:27] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. I couldn't agree more. And also just having all different perspectives of love and kindness. Everybody has different thoughts on it. You know, even just doing this, I've been learning. So there's something you can learn from everybody. And I think it's important in that regard too. So I love what you said.

[37:43] Joanna Alexis Jones: A more well-rounded version of kindness.

[37:48] Robert Peterpaul: Yes, we need it. All right. Now it's time for a surprise game.

[37:53] Joanna Alexis Jones: Oh no.

[37:54] Robert Peterpaul: No, it's really easy. If you're down to play, I promise.

[37:57] Joanna Alexis Jones: I'm terrible at games. I apologize in advance, but here we go. Let's do it.

[38:00] Robert Peterpaul: Listen, once you hear this game, you're going to be like, this is not a game, sir, ma'am. I'm leaving the Zoom. No. All right. So this is called the compliment game because we haven't talked about compliments enough already. Basically, I creepily reached out to someone in your life for a compliment about you or a statement saying what they love about you. Okay. And so you have to guess who said it. Everyone's beautiful in their own way. It's the compliment game on VA. Okay. It's the compliment. Compliment. Compliment game.

[38:33] Joanna Alexis Jones: Bump.

[38:34] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, oh my goodness. You know, I got to give some rules, I guess. We'll say you get three guesses and then you can ask me yes or no questions along the way. But honestly, I don't know the answers to anything. So I don't know how much help I'll be. I think your quote will be pretty obvious. I think there's some hints in there that'll help you. Okay. But, you know, I guess we'll find out.

[38:56] Joanna Alexis Jones: Oh my gosh. Okay, here we go. This is a good one. This is really good. Okay. Let me put my voice on. Joanna is a rare kind of person because she is insanely talented. That is the least remarkable thing about her. Her generosity of spirit, kindness, and weirdness combined to make her the best friend a person could ask for. We are all better off for knowing Jay. And what a bonus that she can warm the coldest of hearts with that voice of hers.

[39:26] Joanna Alexis Jones: Oh my goodness. That is so beautiful. First of all, wow.

[39:34] Robert Peterpaul: I'll send it to you.

[39:35] Joanna Alexis Jones: Yeah, that is overwhelming. Um, oh my gosh, I can't believe I have to guess. I guess I'm just gonna go with the most obvious. It could be but like, I'm gonna get it wrong. I already know. Maybe like, Jamel who like plays opposite me in Hamilton right now? I don't know.

[39:54] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, no.

[39:56] Joanna Alexis Jones: Okay.

[39:57] Robert Peterpaul: I can give you a hint. I don't think they're in Hamilton.

[40:00] Joanna Alexis Jones: Okay, maybe my friend. But who? See, this is the problem. Who knows me well enough to call me weird?

[40:08] Robert Peterpaul: Yes. Well, that made me excited. I was like, Oh, now I'm actually excited to talk to her. I'm definitely weird. But like only my closest. Only people really spend time around me like know. And I get to see where we're at. Yeah. Um, yeah, I don't know my best friend Danielle.

[40:27] Joanna Alexis Jones: Yes, Danielle Durbin. Yeah.

[40:33] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, I love you. Oh my god. Yeah. Danielle and I have been friends since we were like, four.

[40:39] Joanna Alexis Jones: Oh, really? Yeah. Wow. We go back. So that's so special to have somebody that's known you for so long.

[40:47] Joanna Alexis Jones: Yeah, she is like my blood. We are ride or die sisters. Yes. Wow. Oh, what a fun idea for a game. You know, people? Yeah, you know, I just like to kind of like get towards the end of the interview and leave people with a little bit of a thank you for coming on. So I feel like it's kind of a little gift because you get to hear a nice thing about yourself. Some people might think it's awkward and they're like, shut up. But you know what? I play it anyway.

[41:14] Joanna Alexis Jones: That is a beautiful idea. Thank you for...

[41:22] Robert Peterpaul: Well, your friend is so beautiful. And she got back to me right away. Because, you know, I'll reach out to publicist sometimes, but I prefer to do my weird DMs because it's always easier to not have that third party. And so I sent her a DM. And she got back right away and was just so kind and in on the conspiracy with me. She was like, I want to follow you. But I'm not going to follow you until after you air the podcast, because I don't want to give it away. And I'm like, you don't literally don't have to follow me. But that's really nice. I don't know. So anyway, my gosh, Danielle is amazing.

[41:49] Joanna Alexis Jones: I commend your like sleuthing capabilities for being able to pick out like that. She's literally the closest person to me like, yeah, it's really weird. It was a lot of scrolling and just seeing who you were tagged with that like I could maybe message.

[42:02] Robert Peterpaul: Probably someone I was like, in her wedding. Like, I did. I saw that picture.

[42:07] Joanna Alexis Jones: Wow, is this actually her wife? Or is it?

[42:12] Robert Peterpaul: Some people thought I got married after that. I was like, No.

[42:16] Joanna Alexis Jones: I was a maid of honor.

[42:18] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, that's so sweet. Well, thank you, Danielle.

[42:21] Joanna Alexis Jones: Thanks, Danielle. I love you.

[42:25] Robert Peterpaul: All right, you've already been so generous with your time. So I would just love if we could end things by sharing a tangible kindness or wellness tip that you think listeners can take away with them and incorporate into their day. Sure. Um, if that makes sense.

[42:41] Joanna Alexis Jones: Yeah, I would say something that I touched on earlier was how sometimes it's difficult to choose kindness when you don't always feel like it or if it's, you know, cost you something. So I would just say something to practice would be the next time like, I don't know, you're in a bad mood or, you know, not having a great day, not feeling great. Or someone says something nasty to you. I would challenge you to intentionally choose to react with kindness or to go out of your way if you're having an icky day to find someone you can say something nice to or if you're at the grocery store, look at the person's name tag and say their name and thank them and make them feel like they matter or something like that. Because if you can be kind to people, when it's difficult, then you can be kind to them all the time.

[43:39] Robert Peterpaul: Yes. Oh, those are so wonderful. Thank you. Do you have a specific thought or intention when you're trying to get back to being kind? And if sometimes people have little mantras or they'll count to 10 or something just to recenter you, because sometimes it's hard when you're just like, be kind, and then you get frustrated that you're not. Be happy, whatever it is.

[43:59] Joanna Alexis Jones: No, I guess I just remind myself of God's love. Like, I want to be loved. Like, I'm just gonna take a breath and be like, is this the most authentic version of myself? Is this the best version of myself? How can I react as the highest version of myself? Okay, I guess I got to say this instead of something awful.

[44:17] Robert Peterpaul: Yes. There we go. I'm gonna write that down. Always be the highest version of yourself.

[44:20] Joanna Alexis Jones: Yeah. And get high. No, I'm just kidding. I think. Well, thank you so much for your time. You are just such a talented and all around wonderful person. So I'm glad that we're in an industry where people can look up to you. And I hope you stay well and don't have to step away from Hamilton again anytime soon.

[44:38] Joanna Alexis Jones: I know. I hope you stay well, too. And that you get back to your show with smoothness.

[44:44] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, thank you. Thanks for being so warm and open and inviting and friendly. And thanks for having this podcast.

[44:50] Joanna Alexis Jones: Oh, wow. You're cultivating kindness by having this podcast. So thank you.

[44:56] Robert Peterpaul: That's the goal. I must also say I loved the one with your grandma, right?

[45:01] Joanna Alexis Jones: Oh, I had my grandparents on. Yeah, that was so cute. Oh, my goodness. Oh, I heard that one. I know. I randomly was like, I'm going to just start incorporating some random things. And I sat down and yeah, they're so sweet. They're just the best.

[45:17] Robert Peterpaul: So thank you. That's very nice. I love that. It's precious. Yeah. Oh, people are going to love this one.

[45:22] Joanna Alexis Jones: I hope so.

[45:23] Robert Peterpaul: They will have a good rest of your day. You're so bad at ending. I hover over the button. I'm like, keep going first. Oh, all right. Okay, bye.

[45:42] Robert Peterpaul: And now it's time for your kindness tip of the week. It was so relatable to talk with Joanna about auditions and anxiety on stage. I mean, this is a Broadway star, and she still gets nervous. I think the difference is that she doesn't let it stop her from getting out there and living her dream. She inspired today's kindness tip, which is to get out of your own way. Seriously, if you're listening to this right now and nervous to do something, I want you to know that all this worrying won't help you. If you worry, you suffer twice, you are capable of so much. And now is the time to believe in yourself. So if you're procrastinating or coming up with a million excuses about why you can't do something, shift your gear into drive and start taking action.

Now is the time. Time is going to keep moving no matter what and doesn't care if you're anxious. Of course, I do. We've all been there and will be there. It's human. However, please don't let your anxiety lock new doors before you even get a chance to open them up. I believe in you. I also believe that you are filled with your own wonderful kindness tips and stories. I would really love to hear them from you. Please email us at artofkindnesspodcast at gmail.com if you would like to share a story or have a kindness tip on the show. This one was inspired by my awesome dad. Thank you, dad. As always, thank you so much for tuning in to the Art of Kindness podcast. We will be back soon, but until next time, remember, everything's gonna be a-okay.