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[0:00] Robert Peterpaul: Hello, beautiful people. Welcome to The Art of Kindness, where we have compassionate conversations with artists from all areas of the entertainment industry who are using their voice to spread joy and make this big spinning planet in the universe a better place to be. I'm Robert Peterpaul and I'm so glad you're here. Greetings, noble listeners. The AOK and I are back because I just saw Spamalot on Broadway and cannot stop doing it. Based on the iconic 70s film Monty Python and the Holy Grail, this musical is such a holy good time. And isn't that what we need right now? In fact, the number one item on my holiday wish list is joy. And it brought that, okay? Marie Kondo approved. As you may recall, my friend, we had one of the show's stars, the joyful James Monroe Iglehart on here recently.

Definitely go give that episode a listen if you have not already. And now I'm thrilled that we hosted another pivotal cast member who brings all the laughter to audiences. I'm talking about Nik Walker. Nik Walker is a Boston native, theme park enthusiast, NYU alumni-turned-professor, and of course, performer who's been working in entertainment for over a decade now. He's been seen on Broadway as Aaron Burr, sir, in Hamilton, Otis Williams in the cast of Ain't Too Proud and the original Motown. As previously stated, Nik is currently cracking people up as Sir Galahad in the revival of Spamalot playing now at the St. James Theater on Broadway. On screen, you may have peeped him in Blue Bloods, Law & Order SVU, and in the upcoming Apple TV Plus film, The Instigators, alongside his hometown hero, Matt Damon.

Although that sounds like that movie could be about some family members I have. Instigators, get it? Cleaners, the animated series that he created and wrote with his writing partner Alex Brightman, is in development at Warner Brothers Animation, and his musical, Whiskeyland, is in workshops after a successful breakout performance at Orlando Fringe. Nik is the co-host of the arts activism show, The Chaos Twins, and his movie podcast, Little Justice, is streaming wherever podcasts are imbibed. I mean, it seems like this dude is a non-stop creative, but as we discuss, stopping and taking moments to hold space for yourself and others is important. We also talk about everything from Spamalot to nanananana Batman, to finding secret spots in New York City that are useful, and I just really enjoyed it.

As always, stay tuned after the interview for your kindness tip of the week with special guest, the most requested guest ever, my wife Cassie. To have some more fun with us and see behind the scenes content and videos, please visit us on social media at Art of Kindness Pod and at Rob Peterpaul. Now without further ado, please walk alongside me and welcome the wonderful Nik Walker.

[3:33] Nik Walker: A happy day after your birthday to you. I didn't know it was your birthday.

[3:44] Robert Peterpaul: Thank you. It was in fact my birthday yesterday. It's very true.

[3:47] Nik Walker: Oh my goodness.

[3:48] Robert Peterpaul: It's very true.

[3:49] Nik Walker: That's amazing. Yeah, well, like I said, I saw the show last night and you were hysterical. I'd never seen you before and you blew me away. I mean, you don't need me to say that. I love a show where I feel like it's so smartly put together that it's silly. You know, and then it's just fun and we had the best time. So thank you for that.

[4:06] Nik Walker: Thank you for the birthday gift to me. It wasn't even my birthday.

[4:09] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, so of course. And thank you for having me, dude. Such a pleasure to talk to you.

[4:12] Nik Walker: Of course. I'm so excited to talk to you.

[4:14] Robert Peterpaul: Wonderful. Absolutely. Well, first of all, how is doing a show on your birthday? I mean, is that like the ultimate birthday gift to be on Broadway on your birthday?

[4:22] Nik Walker: So here's I'll give you like, you know, I will never give you anything but an honest answer. But what I will say, I think if it was if it was another show, there's been shows that I've done shows that I've been lucky enough to do where it would not be a gift. Right? Where it would be like not because it's not like every time you're on Broadway doing a Broadway show is a gift. But there are some shows that are like truly like you have to go to the depths of your soul to do them. You know, Hamilton being one of them. Right. Like it's not it's not a fun show to necessarily eight shows a week. But it's it's always that that privilege and that honor. But this show, man, it was I'm really not trying to hype it up or blow smoke or anything like it truly being in a show that has this many of my friends in it.

That is this. So it's just on every level. It is so dumb. Like it is so dumb. Like there's no nothing serious about the show. And and with such talented people and such kind people who really made yesterday so special, so special for me. And and I was reflecting on it because I literally a year ago, a year ago, a literal year ago was when was when I was I announced I was leaving Hamilton. And and it was such a I remember it being such a scary time because you're stepping off the biggest show in the world and you're like, OK, what is my career over? Like what happens next? And to kind of look back a year later and be like, oh, no, like this was in some ways this was just the beginning and to be so grateful to have landed in this nest of just like some of my favorite people doing the silliest things. I it's I was it was the it was one of the best birthdays I've had. Yeah, like easily, easily.

[6:25] Robert Peterpaul: I love that. It's so funny, you know, looking at the beginning and thinking about what you were just talking about. I called my friend Laura on the way home, one of my best friends. Shout out Laura Janesko, who I think you know. And yeah, he was in our showcase at ABC. I thought, no way. She's like, oh, my goodness, Pamela. I'm so proud of his journey and where he is now. So I can imagine that's something wild to think about. And some people don't talk about that often, you know, coming out of something so big like Hamilton and having that high and then just walking into your apartment and not knowing what's next.

[7:02] Nik Walker: Well, Laura, Laura can tell you, you know, because I mean, ABC Showcase, right. They take care of their people like they are so good about it. But you do that even then, like you do that showcase and you're like, all right, here we go. And then it's like, well, what happens now? Right. Like every time, you know, I think that this career, if you sign up for a career in the entertainment industry, in any facet of the entertainment industry, you're signing up for a career of kind of like, you know, I used to say the gig is the vacation. Right. The gig is when you have the thing. That's when you're doing what you love and when everything's working. But your job is getting the gig right. Like so once you're right back out onto that, onto that, into that real world, it's very scary.

It's very abrupt. And no matter how high you've climbed, right, you're always kind of starting back at at ground zero. So it was truly this moment of like, you know, I was never I was never terrified, but it was just like I had you know what it was. I had a you want to talk about kindness. I had my friend Daniel Vasevic, who is a dear friend of my fellow Star Wars nerd, who I've actually met through Taron Killam, who's my friend who's played Lance a lot in Spamalot. Amazing. He talks about this whole idea of, you know, sitting in the discomfort, sitting in the I don't know. When I when I stepped off, we actually to kind of celebrate my stepping off, Taron and I and Daniel went to the Star Wars Galactic Star Cruiser, which is no more the the Star Wars Hotel, if you've ever heard of it.

[8:23] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, yeah. Nice.

[8:24] Nik Walker: Yeah, we because again, we're grown men with the minds of children. And we went on this now I love and always is my favorite. And we we were sitting I remember we're sitting around Epcot around the World Showcase pavilion. And Daniel was talking about like, yeah, you know, you are stepping off into an unknown territory. And you know, it kind of feels like you're stepping in mud. And when when you step in mud, you know, everybody's the human condition says to clean the mud off you, right to get clean to move forward. And he's like, But what if you didn't? What if you just sat with the mud on your shoe for a little while? What if you just sat there, and just let it be uncomfortable? And, and it really took a lot of giving myself grace and, and just, you know, meditation and trusting my wife and trusting my friends and, and being quiet for a little while to do that.

But it's it truly is this moment where I look back now and I'm like, man, that really, that really I'm so grateful for the way this worked out. Because it just it didn't have to be like this. I truly did not it did not have to go down like this. And and I am very grateful.

[9:30] Robert Peterpaul: I'm grateful you said that because it's such an important lesson, especially for me, someone who you know, I'm a former, well, I'm still a people pleaser, but I'm someone who always looks for a solution right away. And sometimes thumbs up. Sometimes the solution is just to sit in the problem and not find a solution and just being there. That is the solution.

[9:49] Nik Walker: Yes. And so I think like you're saying, you know, keeping the mud on you. And now you're literally keeping the mud on you night after night and Spamalot. I mean, you guys are covered in dirt, or correct. It's dirt. And I'm glad I'm glad you said that. But hey, there's a Star Wars Broadway community. Do you know John Tracy Egan, my friend?

[10:05] Nik Walker: I am very aware. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. There's a there's there's. Oh, there's millions of us. There's a Star Wars. There's a Star Wars Broadway community. There's also a Disney Parks Broadway community. Like I feel like because you know, and it makes sense to me because it's like Broadway is passion, right? Like to do to do a career and especially in the theater sect of the entertainment industry, right? Like, you're not doing it for the fame and you're not doing it for the shekels. You're doing you're doing it because you love this because this thing is insane. Right? So if you're here and you and you stayed in it, it means that you really love it. And I think that, you know, that's what nerddom is and fandom is is passion is just passion for a thing. So yeah, Star Wars community, Chris Fitz plays Patsy and Spamalot.

[10:52] Robert Peterpaul: I forgot that was him.

[10:54] Nik Walker: Right?

[10:55] Nik Walker: Dude, so good.

[10:56] Nik Walker: He's such I mean, and what I hate about Chris Fitz, if you're in Chris Fitz, if you're listening, it's what I hate about you, bro. Doesn't he does not understand how talented he is. He is and I think I mean, that that is his superpower is that it's never done for him. And it's always this is a guy who when I go to my bathroom, you know, we share a bathroom and the reason I brought this up originally was because we have decked out a bathroom to be Star Wars. So we're adding I believe three foot tall Darth Vader in there. He brought a Boba Fett figurine and an Imperial Trooper figurine and we're just kind of decking it out in Star Wars regalia. But Chris Fitz, right, this is the guy I'll come out of my dressing room, I'll be on the you know, going to the bathroom, we share a floor.

And he's to this, he's still going over his lines. He's still figuring out different ways to say a thing. He's trying jokes out on people like it is such a pursuit for him. And the pursuit is the point. Right? It's never about I'm going to get it. It's always about Ooh, but can we What if I tried this? Right? It's it is he is the ultimate kind of leaning into example of leaning into process. Yeah. And and I've learned so much from just being in his in his orbit and becoming his friend. He is amazing.

[12:11] Robert Peterpaul: That is the point I'm going to write that on my forehead. I'm putting that on my wall that is not going on a post it on my body. I'm so glad. I love that. That's incredible.

[12:20] Nik Walker: That's a pull quote. Well, you know, I can't wait to get into Spamalot and all things kindness with you. But speaking of the nerdom, I have a really important question. And I hope it's not, I guess too deep just to start out. But please, who is your favorite Batman of all time?

[12:31] Nik Walker: You are really coming for I love you. This is so great. So I'm gonna answer this question. I'm gonna answer this question in a breakdown because I have to first of all say that anybody I am of the opinion that anybody who's played Batman, I think that Batman, to me, this is my opinion is truly the hamlet of the superhero genre. Yeah, I think it is one of the most difficult parts to play in the superhero world. And I think that anybody who's taken a crack at it, it's not about like the best I love that you said who's your favorite, because I think that's exactly right. Who is my personal favorite because I truly think that everyone who's done it has brought something to it that nobody else could bring to it. Yeah. I'm George Clooney as much as we you know, nobody, nobody like remember, right? It's beautiful Batman.

[13:23] Nik Walker: His Batman is actually like it's this kind of updated Adam West, but he's so charming and you love watching him. Just like, oh, I'll watch George Clooney all day. So, you know, I mean, I think everyone has it. So the tie in my mind is Christian Bale and Kevin Conroy. Kevin Conroy gets a slight edge because of what that man was capable of. I think that Christian Bale obviously is one of the best actors we have. You see him on screen and the pathos that he does, that he's able to command with just simple movements. People don't give him enough credit because he really was the anchor point of these three movies. We remember Heath Ledger and we remember Tom Hardy and Cillian Murphy and all these amazing and Anne Hathaway, all these amazing kind of rogues gallery character actors.

It's a beautiful way to put it. Oh right, but Christian Bale comes in and he's the center point and he is the reflection of us. He's our eyes in and he was able to do things with such simple movements of his eyes, simple intonations that were just so heartbreaking at times and I just love his work. But the reason that Kevin Conroy has a slight edge for me is that Kevin Conroy didn't have the visual medium. Kevin Conroy hit me at a younger age in the same way that Christian Bale did, but it was solely his voice. I think that Batman: The Animated Series, see you got me talking now and I'm so sorry.

[15:04] Robert Peterpaul: No, it's not. I'm so interested. I'm like, wow, this is going to be a different episode. I'm excited for it because it is down the path. I agree with you. I think you're spot on in the sense that it's one of the hardest superheroes to play. Yes. Because he's hiding obviously behind a mask, but he's not hiding behind CGI. He doesn't have a superpower. There's not really, there's green screen moments of course happening throughout the franchise, but it's just, it's him, his eyes and then he's sort of, it's sort of two characters in one because he is hiding sometimes that lifestyle. So it's an interesting one and I agree with what you're saying, you know.

[15:39] Nik Walker: Yeah. And I just love that. I just wanted to ask you.

[15:43] Robert Peterpaul: Oh absolutely, yeah. It's the Christian Bale, Kevin Conroy camouflage for me. With Kevin Conroy having a slight edge, that's what I would answer.

[15:48] Nik Walker: Okay. Yeah. I love that. I love that. Yeah. We're on the same page. Even, you know, listen, nipples and all, George Clooney, I thought he was great.

[16:00] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, Isaac Mizrahi. Now anyway, you know, I get to get to the theme today. Today's theme is kindness through, you know, your eyes. I would love to know, Nik, what is your definition of kindness besides Batman?

[16:11] Nik Walker: Besides Batman, he's so kind. Selflessness. Selflessness. I think that kindness, I think that kindness gets a bum rap, but I was thinking about this in anticipation of coming on here because kindness is so often looked at as action, as the active giving of something, the active doing of something. I'm doing you a kindness. I am being kind to you. But I think if you, for me personally, if I really break it down, the people who have been kindest to me in my life, who I remember most dearly are the people who just held space for me. Who didn't try to impact me, but just let me be. Let me just be in whatever space I need to be at the time, whether that was a space of joy, and they were right there with my joy or space of grief, a space of hardship or heartache.

Like kindness is, I think at the very basis, the understanding that the world is bigger than you. And that at some point you have to put you down and be of service to somebody else. Be present for somebody else and with somebody else. All the kinds of people in my life are people that can, I call it the actor's conundrum, the artist's conundrum, right? I have a big pet peeve about artists who can only talk about themselves or their art. Who for whatever reason are afraid to ask questions, who are afraid to be curious about how your day is going, who really can't follow that thread and just not solve your issue, but just be present with you. That's kindness to me. Because kindness is also, I think, an embracing of what the world really is in the moment, right?

Kindness is not the world is a perfect place. Kindness is also not the world is a dark and hopeless place. Kindness is, I want to hear what the world is. Kindness is, I want to allow the world to tell me what it is. And kindness, I think in that way, is so infinite and special because, right, it is the ultimate kind of, I don't know, kind of just acceptance, acceptance, the ultimate acceptance.

[18:49] Robert Peterpaul: I want to hear what the world is. That really hit me. That's very poetic and beautiful. And I want to hear what the world is. No, I don't know. I think that's amazing. I love that.

[18:59] Nik Walker: Yeah. You know, I think it also it starts from within in a lot of ways, because you can't really share a space with someone and be present and kind of just sit there and be unless you're comfortable with yourself. And otherwise, it could feel like they're putting pressure on you and you have to talk. I think it's such a complicated thing. But when you feel it, you feel it. And I love that definition. And I wonder for you, you know, growing up in Boston, I learned a lot about your history. Shout out from listening to my friend, Alana Levine's podcast, Little Known Facts. I love you.

[19:26] Nik Walker: Oh, Alana, you're the best. Oh, man. She says, I was texting her. I say hi right back to her. She's the best man. That's awesome.

[19:37] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. I just wish I had her voice. She's such an inspiration to me on so many levels. Absolutely. You know, not only I learned what an amazing person you are, but I learned so much about your mom. And I was just curious, you know, growing up with your childhood there, what do you think she taught you about kindness from a young age?

[19:52] Nik Walker: Oh, my mom, my mom. My mom is the biggest community servant I've ever met. The community comes first for her. To the point, to the point, I think sometimes, and this is not something she would be mad at me for saying publicly, but sometimes to her detriment, I think that she sometimes, you know, forgets some very, very charmingly forgets to put herself first. But she is so especially when it comes to Boston, she is so committed to that city. And so growing up with her, it was very, you learned very quickly what it meant to kind of always be of service to kind of always be in a position to be present for the people that love you. You know, it's my favorite version of a leader. I think there's the version of a leader, the person I always think of, of the movie Gladiator, you know, for all its faults, when I think of my favorite definitions of leaders coming back as a TV show, it is a TV show.

And there's also there's a sequel with Denzel and some, yeah, forget it. Yeah, Michael B. Jordan or some craziness. It's gonna be great. Good for them. But in the original, there's a scene where that Maximus has when he's being offered, you know, to take over the Senate. And he's like, he says, Caesar, you know, I don't want this. I don't want to do this. I just want to serve and he's and Caesar says, that is why it must be you. Right? This idea of leadership as something that is in service to people, not you are not leading them anywhere you are, in fact, supporting them. You are not the star of the show. You are the buttress. You're the platform. And I think that my mother has always very much taken that to heart. And any, you know, if you walk around Boston with my mother, my mother was the first black news anchor in Boston in New England. And she held.

[22:00] Robert Peterpaul: Oh yeah, she she's a hero.

[22:05] Nik Walker: And she worked that job for about 30 years. And to this day, if you walk around Boston, if you if you're with her, if you mentioned her name, people who are from that town from New England, they know her very like that she is a local celebrity, if not a regional celebrity, but that anything that she has parlayed from that celebrity has been in service of bringing attention to the people who need it. It's not about, you know, kind of her welfare. She, my favorite part was when she retired, we got her a place in Sarasota and she lives down there now. And she's like, if I'm done, you know, I'm going to go and write my book and be there. And then I, you know, I call her on a random Thursday and like, Mom, where are you?

Doesn't look like a palm tree. She's like, oh, I'm back in Boston. Just I'm helping out with this gal. I'm just I'll be just back for a day. But I'm only back for a day. And then she goes back to Sarasota and she comes back. It's like, you know, it's an addiction. I think leaders have an addiction to helping people. And if you're going to have an addiction, I guess that's the best one to have. You know, it's giving back.

[23:07] Robert Peterpaul: Exactly. I think that's exactly what she has, is that sense of just wanting that again, like Chris Fitz, the work is never done. And how can I continue to make people's lives better? You know, she runs a trauma center out of her church, Roxbury Presbyterian Church, the Cory Johnson program. And it's this amazing trauma program that helps mothers who have lost their sons to gun violence or just lost their sons early, you know, and it's powerful to see the work that she does. So she's committed to her community in a way that I think really inspired me. And it taught me, I think the biggest lesson that I gleaned from her was that anything that I was going to do as an artist had to be for a greater glory than mine.

Right. It could not just be about, oh, I'm just doing this because, you know, because let's be real. I very much got into the arts because I was, you know, I was a lonely kid. I was an insecure kid. I didn't grow up with my father. I used the arts as a bright, shining light to say, I'm here, I exist. And my mother was very much without directly doing this. I think she very much in my mind became the voice that said, yeah. And can we can we give back? Can we make sure that this is something that you're not just doing to, you know, heal your inner child, but is something that gives people some joy or some hope or some thought or something?

[24:45] Robert Peterpaul: Yes. And the and is so important. I love the and and not but, because there's room for both.

[24:51] Nik Walker: And the honesty is wonderful. And I do think there's a lot to giving back. There's actual science. I work with an organization called kindness.org. And they do research that actually shows giving back improves your mental health. It makes you happier. It gives to you. There's really no reason not to do it. So I'm sure your mom's a very happy person.

[25:13] Robert Peterpaul: She is. I would love to know a moment of somebody giving back to you. You know, you've been building this incredible career from Hamilton to Ain't Too Proud to Spam-A-Lot now. Is there, I'm sure there were a lot, but is there an act of kindness that stands out to you as sort of changing your trajectory?

[25:26] Nik Walker: Yes. Yes. Yes, there was. And it's one that I, when you said it, it just hit me how special it was. So Ain't Too Proud, Ain't Too Proud was my first Broadway lead, right? I'd led shows before. I'd led shows on a Broadway tour, but I'd never led a show within the Times Square radius. Ain't Too Proud was a special show. It is a special show. Dominique Morrison's script is second to none. Because, you know, there's jukebox musicals, there's musicals about bands, and then there's Ain't Too Proud. And Ain't Too Proud, I think the beauty of what Dominique did was she said, okay, I know you want me to tell the story of Temptations. I'm just going to tell the story of five black men who lived through civil rights Detroit, and they happened to be Temptations.

And we'll see what happens. And it just became this love letter to her town, to this group, to these guys, to what they did. But the biggest thing about Ain't Too Proud was the dancing. That show has some of the most gorgeous.

[26:47] Nik Walker: It's so funny because I was watching the video today of our final bows. It's stunning. If you know anything about my career, you know I'm very vocal about the fact that I'm not a dancer. I don't know how to dance. I can literally do the moves that you pay me to do. Des McAnuff, who directed Ain't Too Proud, I've known him for many, many years. He's amazing. He was my college best friend's godfather. I did not know who he was, but he literally is responsible for my career. He gave me my start. He is the best thing that ever happened. He was like, come and replace Derek. We're going to send Edgar, who is the associate choreographer, out to your tour of Hamilton so that you can go through a dance boot camp and we'll teach you how to dance.

So five weeks at Hamilton, it was me. I was dancing from 10 to 4 and I was doing the show at night. Edgar was there and they flew him out and he would come out to the city, hang with me, teach me how to dance, go back. And the kindness that I want to highlight, because it wasn't just that Edgar was there. This is the perfect example of, I cannot tell you how terrified I was to go into the show. This show was black in a way that I did not consider myself. I'd never been, you know, outside of my Broadway debut, Motown the Musical, I'd never been around so many black people. It was about a sect of black culture that wasn't, I grew up, like you said, in Boston. I was one of the only black kids I knew a lot of the times.

This is a show about a black community. That's a cool title. Sorry, I don't know. The only black kid I knew. I don't know. Oh, buddy. No, truly. No, no, don't be sorry. It's very cool. You're like reading a book, just listening to you. Like everything's inspiring. You're very, that's very sweet of you. But it was terrifying. It was terrifying. And Edgar knew that. And the care that he showed me in those five weeks, the patience he had for me. Edgar is one of the best choreographers you'll ever meet. But that man took care of me. And he didn't move forward with something until I got it. And he reminded me not to beat myself up. He prepared me in such a way that when I finally stepped on that stage, I felt ready.

I felt good. I felt okay with myself. And there was still learning to do like there was still because, you know, you still, you know, even though all those boys were my friends, Juwan and James Harkness and Jelani, right, you still stepping up there with them and you can learn the moves by yourself, but you have to match them. But it at least gave me the confidence. There was never a point at which I did not feel like I wasn't going to fail because he had my back. And that's very different than just teaching someone some moves. He took care of me. And it was one of the scariest transitions I've ever had professionally, and he took care of me. And I'll never forget it. And I'll never be able to thank him for it.

[30:20] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, well, I think you just did. That was such a lovely retelling. And I wonder if you have any tools you can share on that before we get into Spamalot, which maybe even came with its own set of imposter syndrome in a way, you know, how do you continue that through your career? And I know no matter what you get to in your career, there's always some of that. Did he sort of give you specific tools to not beat yourself up and get out of your own way and befriend the voice in your head?

[30:43] Nik Walker: You know what he did? He found my language. That's what he did. It was never about meet me where I am. It was about where are you? And how can we take what this is and find the common ground of you and the thing? So we discovered that I was really good with if you like kind of scattered the moves as crazy sound like bop bop bop bop bop bop, right? I can I might not know what the moves are called, but I can remember that rhythm. Yeah. So he's like, Nick, this is a bop bop bop bop bop. Can you do that? Bop bop bop bop bop. And all of a sudden, things were landing. And it was like, oh, my God, because he had found what worked for me. It's the same. It's teaching styles. I you know, kids don't learn the same way.

Nobody learns the same way. You have to take time to find how that kid learns. And anybody who is product oriented is going to be like, well, they have to learn this way as opposed to they actually could get it if you just slow down and ask them how and just figure it out. How do they learn best? And that's what Edgar did for me and did that on a multimillion dollar show when we didn't have time. He found the time and that was huge. So I think that I think that it really. Yeah. The advice that I would say in terms of the confidence is, you know, fight allowing yourself the time to find it in your own way, your own way. Don't be beholden to what you have projected as the way to get it. What is the way that you approach the work or approach your life or approach the goal and just be be OK with that?

[32:30] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, that's so valuable. I got a newsflash meeting people where they are actually takes a lot less time than right a month later trying to fix a problem that was caused by whatever you didn't address. So say it's so much louder. Say it's so much louder. My God. Yeah. But getting into Spamalot, which I was cracking up at last night and I knew I would crack up. But it's such an epic show with an epic cast that you're a part of, you know, researching you and listening to interviews with you. You have such a wonderful voice and I could just listen to you talk and it's so inspiring. And then I see you on stage and you're just like hysterical and big and fun. And just I mean, I was like cry laugh. I couldn't stop looking at you among these titans, like in these group moments when you're just doing like the funniest things in your tongues out and whatever. First of all, how are you not cracking up on stage every night? Like, is this happening?

[33:18] Nik Walker: I'm cracking up every night, man. Like, I don't there's no there's no work. You cannot put that you cannot put this group of people on a stage and expect the show to, like, go pristinely. In fact, I think that's become the fun of the show is like there are certain moments where people will just push it over the edge. Leslie will get you during the Camelot number. You know, Taron will get you during Tim the Enchanter or the Knights Who Say Knee. Michael, Michael, Michael tense. He actually is pretty good about it. I will say that Michael will he'll do something during like, he'll do some stupid stuff. There's a the brother Maynard scene right before we try to kill the rabbit where he comes on as the friar.

Like, that's just dumb. Like everybody's has one or two moments where they nailed that cadence, though. I felt like I was at mass. He really nailed that. Oh, he nailed it. And it's been getting longer and longer every night. Like, it's really he's drawing it out. And it's absurd. But everyone has these moments. And I think you talked about these Titans, I think that, you know, back to the imposter syndrome of it all. That was it was this is it's he it was huge. It was that that that was roiling up in me that sense of like, oh, I do not belong here. This is this is weird. And just feeling like these people were, you know, so above my above my weight class, and they are, you know, but I think that what's been wonderful has been kind of embracing the kid brother aspect of it all.

And like, and like, and truly coming in being like, Okay, let me learn. Let me I know, I know what my silly is. And I know what my timing is. And I know how I like to play. But like, at the end of the day, for as long as we get to do this, what a great masterclass. What a comedy masterclass. Oh, yes, like sit and just like, watch a bit and be able to ask like, Chris Fitz, like, hey, what is that that you just did? What do you think? Like to just bounce idea? Like it truly, I think, is a writer's room. Like, I think that's what I love about our building right now is like, we are in a position where it really is this sibling hood, you know, seven brothers and a sister who just love and trust each other to create this comedy, comedy show every night.

And so we're constantly like trying things and just playing with things. And, and I think everyone gets better off of everyone else. So it's what what at first was this very scary, like, Oh, my God, has now become this very comforting, like, Ooh, let's see. Let's see what happens today. You know? So it's been it's been a gift. It's been so much fun.

[35:51] Robert Peterpaul: I saw a couple of people smirking last night, which makes it more fun. That's the best part of SNL. I mean, that's the fun of it. It's like, we're all laughing together. And on so many levels, the show is a send up to Broadway. So it's sort of like, we know we're watching a show, they start to learn they're in one.

[36:03] Nik Walker: Yes, I loved having James on here. Because first of all, he loves you. And I know he gives you a hard time. But he said that's his ultimate form of love and kindness is treating someone like a little brother and making fun of them and sort of calling them out and all that stuff. And he was he's sad because he's like, I can't really, I can't really go that far in the show. I'm sort of like the straight man and everybody around me is like, having the best time and he's still having fun. But yeah, you know, it makes it more fun to watch.

[36:29] Nik Walker: Oh, yeah. In a lot of ways, you know, feel like it's something that a lot of people can't explain. Like, it's so musical. And I wonder if any of these people that have been doing comedies for so long have dropped little golden nuggets of sort of like, well, that's how I do this. Yeah, people don't get that practical, you know?

[36:41] Nik Walker: Well, I think the thing, you know, it is, here's the thing. At the end of the day, it is a craft. Yeah, this is a craft, right? It's not just get up and be an idiot. It is it is designed to look like chaos. But in fact, it is something that is very studied and very and you want to, you want to build it so it's repeatable, right? Doesn't have to be the same every night, but it has to be at least repeatable. So these are people who've honed their skills. And I think James has the hardest job everyone because he really if there's this, this show barely has a plot. But if it does, it rests on him and he has to drive it. So I think that that's what he experiences so often is, you know, the responsibility of like, I have to kind of be the adult in the room.

Yeah, I mean, when everyone else kind of gets to be kids, but even then, you know, you talk about the gems that were dropped. I mean, Mike Nichols had this amazing saying that, so in preparation for this, I took as many funny people out to coffee as I could. Among them was Steve Rosen and Chris Sieber, both who were in the original cast. And both of them talked about this, Mike Nichols saying that he would say often, which was like, you're not funny, the thing is funny. Right? So it's the idea of like, the objective is actually not to make people laugh. These characters are not trying to be funny, they very much exist. You know, I think with the exception of Leslie's Lady of the Lake, Leslie's Lady of the Lake, I think is smarter than all the characters in the sense that she is aware from the top of the show that it's a show.

None of the other characters are aware of that like that, that slowly dawns on them. But Leslie, I think knows from jump that we're in a show. And that's why she kind of has this wonderful leg up on us. But for the rest of especially for the nights, oh yeah, literally, for the rest of especially for the nights, I think that we have to come in and play this so serious, even. And I think that's what makes the more absurd things absurd, that we believe them, you know, that, that we are trying so desperately to make these absurd situations work. Obviously, the comedy, this the best thing Chris Eber ever gave me was he explained how to do that there's a scene with where I play Ethan's Ethan's father.

And there's the two guards, which is low key, the hardest scene in the show for me, because it's it's a it's who's on first if you know that if you know that, oh yeah, sketch, right? It's this idea. It's just this this miscommunication that gets extrapolated out and out and out. And when we did in DC, I was going straight to the anger. I was going straight to that idea of like, Oh, you got to understand this. Why don't you understand, you know, because it's the whole point is, you know, Michael Urie's character, the guard is like not understanding. It's very simple instruction I've given him and we just go off and off and off on it. And Chris Eber said, No, the point of it is not the anger. The point is that you don't understand.

It's you processing why he doesn't get it. How can I make this clearer for you? Just stay here. You have to go anywhere. Just stay right here. And he still doesn't get it and you and it's, it's it's comedy is what I've learned from these greats is that, you know, tragedy is watching people change. Comedy is largely watching characters refuse to change in spite of themselves. It's literally just people hitting their heads on a wall.

[40:10] Nik Walker: Perspective. Because that moment really stood out to me. I'm glad you brought that up because you weren't playing the one note of anger like you're saying, and there was more of a build. And then there was a second where I thought, oh, they both understand each other. Then it was like, nope, he's on a different page. And it was very relatable in a lot of ways. You're kind of going back and forth, this whole show, between being the funny, quote-unquote funny one and the one that's like, no, no, like you're saying. So that's a great way to put it. I'm actually going to replay that a million times. Oh, I'm so glad, man. Yeah, but I've learned so many. It really has made me, I think, a better actor being in the show because the comedy is all listening.

You really just have to be present and listen and you have to just play it as honestly as you can. Comedy doesn't work when you're trying to be funny. Because even Leslie, in her grandest moments, right? It's all stuff. When she's doing Diva's Lament, right? It's funny because it's coming from a very real place, right? She's very concerned with the fact that she has not been in the show for 30 minutes. This is insane. And so it's so good. But she's playing it very seriously. And I think that that is the beauty of it. So I really, that's what I've learned is really just kind of honing in on that levity, that sense of just letting the material, trusting the material at its word. And that allows you to just be kids and run around and have these kind of shenanigans backstage. Is there like a story that sticks out to you from maybe when there was some sort of mishap on stage or off that you all just lost? I just love these stories.

[42:02] Nik Walker: The whole show is a mishap. So like, I can't even pick one. I will say my favorite moments backstage have been so I will say, okay, I'll highlight a couple. The first person to break is always Daniel Beeman. Daniel Beeman is one of our ensemble members. He's in a constant state of laughing. And it's so fun. Whenever I hear like, I just had to look behind me. I know Daniel Beeman is somewhere on the stage laughing his ass off. So that's my first that's one thing that's just always funny to me. The I will say, watching when there was there was one moment, there's during I think it was during our previous or right after opening, the killer bunny attacks one of our nights, Sir Bores and his head goes flying off.

And this, you know, they've figured out a way to keep the head on stage. But at this point, they hadn't done that yet. And the head literally rolled off the stage. And everyone lost it in a way that was so because there's no, it was just like, there's nothing to do. Like the head is gone. It's in the audience or it's in the pit, we don't know. James had the next line and he was just out and I had to look at him and just grab his shoulder and be like, we have to finish this. And it was one of those surreal moments where like, you kind of get to just enjoy this fact that like, yes, you're like, you are now aware that you're in a show. This audience is dying because you are not finishing the show. You have to finish the show. And it was just so joyful. I just loved it so much.

[43:42] Nik Walker: Oh, it was great. But yeah, that was happened last night. Yeah, like I was seeing the head fly off. And I was admiring how it goes behind the mountain or something. It was like, Oh, yeah, it ever flies out into the audience. They have now figured out how to make sure it doesn't I won't ruin the magic, but they have a good system for it. And that's kind of I think that's what's interesting, too, is now, you know, all the magic tricks of the show, Boar's Head, my Black Knight costume, like all the things we've kind of, you know, knock on wood, we kind of have a good rhythm with them. So it'll be interesting, you know, at first, a lot of the comedy came from like, are we going to make this work tonight?

Or we don't know. But now that it works consistently pretty well, it's going to be interesting to see, you know, kind of what that opens up. Because especially if on a night where it doesn't work, I think it's going to be such a shock to us. Because now we trust these things. And like, you know, it's inevitably at some point, it won't work. Inevitably, at some point, something will crash.

[44:40] Nik Walker: Reasons to keep going back, everybody. I got to go back and see it again. You know, what's not a joke on Broadway is the schedule, especially in a show like Spamlot that's so physical, like we're saying. So I would love to know how you're kind to yourself as a performer. Yes.

[44:53] Nik Walker: If you are. I know it's a work in progress for everybody. No, it's always a work in progress. My very lovely wife has this has this kind of unwritten rule in our house that, right, the work is work, but this is a shared space. Right? When I come home, it's a space for the both of us. And I think that the job that I've had to do and the work that I'm working on is how to really put down work at the end of the day, because that is kindness, right? The idea that I think we live in a culture that prizes hustle and prizes success within the capitalist structure. And that's all well and good. But at the end of the day, like that doesn't keep you warm at night. That doesn't keep you healthy, doesn't keep you rested.

So there's a little one little thing I've been doing. Very little thing has been when I step inside, I take four deep breaths at the bottom of my stairs before I step into our house. Just just to kind of remind myself like, OK, that was that. And now you're here. Right. And even that is just enough to kind of like. I don't know, release me of a lot of the tension of the day, not to say that it works like gangbusters, right, because there's always, you know, especially because I think right now I'm in this position where I'm technically working three different jobs because I have because I have this I have spam a lot and I have two writing projects that are that are that are going on.

[46:23] Nik Walker: And do you still do your podcast and your other show or was that just so we're trying to figure out how to do the podcast because I don't have a lot of time. But what we're looking in the new year to try to at least like maybe try to get like one or two episodes back on because I do miss that podcast. Oh yeah. Probably podcast network. They started doing no companions. Maybe you can be like the spam. Oh, I can really text out. Yeah. Yeah. Alan or Dory. I love I've missed them so much. I really that probably podcast network. I love you guys. You guys are great. But but yeah, it's just, you know, I think that because I have my I have my animated series of Warner Brothers. I have my my my musical, which is doing a workshop this this in two weeks.

Amazing. And I spam a lot. So there's a lot going on. And there's always something there's always something that I have to do or tweak or work on or answer an email or whatever. But remembering it's those kind of breath moments at least allow me to remember like this is a choice to respond. Right. I can respond when I'm ready to. Right. Just because just because somebody has approached me with urgency doesn't mean I need to meet them with urgency. I can choose to do so if I want to. But I can also choose to sit with it for a second and then get to it in my own time and not in the procrastination way, but like a way of like I have the choice to shut off my brain. And I never try to be rude to anybody that I'm working with. I never try to you know, it's not about like not respecting their urgency if they are being urgent, but just like just really taking stock in my choice, my sense of choice.

[48:00] Nik Walker: What how how I how I choose to engage with capitalism on a day to day basis.

[48:05] Robert Peterpaul: Yes. And the no is a yes to you. You know, saying no to things can be a yes to other things and to yourself. And it is it's so relatable what you're saying in this world where everybody has to balance a million different things on varying levels. And we live in a world where you can have your red receipts on, you know, someone read an email if someone doesn't answer right away. Yeah, but I love that saying that's it's something like someone else's lack of planning doesn't constitute an emergency on my part. Yes, correct. Correct. It's not it's it's I don't really in that that goes back to what we talked about originally, that sense of holding, holding space for someone as opposed to feeling you need to do something, because somebody can approach you and have a whole history of a bad day, you know, laden in their email or in their ask or in their whatever. But that doesn't mean I can and I can hold space for them. That doesn't mean I have to take it on. That doesn't mean it has to become my bad day.

[49:03] Nik Walker: Oh, yeah. I thought you said in their ass. I was like, oh, I mean, that's it. That's it. That's a bad day stuck up someone's ass. Listen, it happens as well. But you're so right. Yeah. Right. That idea of just like, yeah, I'm going to I'm going to sit with this. The greatest thing that we have is choice is the choice to process and the choice to really choose how we want to go about our day. So the kindness that I show to myself is the moments where I'm when I just pause and say, great, there's a lot going on. What do I want to do next? And do or do I want to do anything at all? You know, yeah, not being afraid to just be bored, bored or even even if there is something that I have to do. Yeah.

The the awareness that I'm choosing to do it. I write like like there is there's something that like needs to be done today. Cool. I don't necessarily want to do this today. I'm going to do it because it has to get done. But I'm just I'm acknowledging all sides of the thing. Right. Nothing. Neither is wrong. Neither is right. It's just let's let's call it what it is as opposed to what it wants to be. And I think that helps, too. That's that's a kindness in itself. Just being realistic.

[50:06] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, yeah. And it's brick by brick. It's not house by house. We take it one step at a time. I really love that. And I think it leads nicely into a question I have here that's a little cheesy, but I'm a cheesy. Oh, so excited. I want to know what you know, what recenters you and allows you to look on the bright side of life when you're feeling a little jolly rotten.

[50:29] Nik Walker: This is going to sound so this I will give you the cheesiest answers. My wife, my wife, certainly she is such a force and such a good person. And she can always make me laugh always. And I am so thankful to her. My movies. I love movies. I love stories. I love good stories.

[50:48] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, yeah. Favorite movie of all time. Can you can you hit us?

[50:51] Nik Walker: Jurassic Park. Jurassic Park.

[50:53] Robert Peterpaul: So good. Have you been on the ride?

[50:56] Nik Walker: Oh, who are you talking to, buddy? Come on.

[50:58] Robert Peterpaul: That's true. Yeah.

[51:00] Nik Walker: Yeah. Come on. These right? Yes. Yes. Yes. I've been on all the rides. The only one that I haven't done is Jurassic World ride out in universe Shanghai, which is a pair. It might be Beijing, Universal Beijing, which is stunning. I've looked at the ride footage and it's stunning.

[51:20] Nik Walker: But you ride taking the virtual ride. It's hard because you're like, I want to experience it. But sometimes you just got to. There's a whole cottage industry of people who, you know, who vlog about theme parks and they are all amazing, you know, shouting out the did shouting out WDW and Mickey views, all these people who I love. They are they really do a good job of, like, keeping you up to date with what's going on in those parks. So, you know, you just feel like you're there all the time. Yeah. But yeah, it's that going for a walk is another big one to reground myself. That's a good one. And I also have an oil diffuser in my dressing room. That's I have a nice scent. Citrus. I'm a huge citrus guy.

Orange, lemon, tangerine. Like it has to be like I want when I walk into my room and you know what this is. You want to talk about kindness. This is the reason that it is. Long story short, one of the first people who was kind to me on Broadway, his name was Eric Lamont Summers. He played several characters, but he was the lead singer of the contours in Motown, a musical which my my Broadway debut, Eric really was like a big brother to me. He he passed a couple of years back from cancer and we lost.

[53:41] Nik Walker: Oh, he thank you. We lost the Titan. We lost someone who was truly a legend. But I he taught me two things. He taught me about the because we were at the Lunt-Fontanne. Most of my Broadway career has been on 46th Street. This is one of my first times off of 46th Street because because I've usually been on either 46. Yeah, 46. Yeah, because that was the Lunt. That was Imperial. That was Rogers. And then I did the meter lander at 41st and I did and now I'm on 44. So this is now a branching out the most haunted. No, sorry. That'll take us down another rabbit. Oh, Richard Rogers. Rogers 100% was haunted. But we'll get back to that. But Eric taught me about tell me about the if I'm ever running late, the breezeway, you know, you get off at Times Square and then you run up through the start with the Minskoff Theater breezeway to under the Marriott marquee under the Edison. And you can get.

[54:05] Nik Walker: There's a whole Instagram channel about that. Oh, oh my god. She is, I forget the handle, but I'll DM you later.

[54:12] Robert Peterpaul: It's okay, it's amazing. She literally, that's her whole channel is just where the best bathrooms are in New York.

[54:18] Nik Walker: I need to find her.

[54:20] Robert Peterpaul: One is like, if you go into 5 Napkin and you say you're just at Smacker's, there's a bunch of hotels. I'm sorry, I shouldn't be blowing up this way, but you know, it's a good time.

[54:30] Nik Walker: People need to know.

[54:31] Robert Peterpaul: People do need to know, and I need you to know before we run that I have a surprise game.

[54:35] Nik Walker: Oh, you're down to play? It's really good. It's not much of a game, honestly. Basically, I reached out to someone in your life for—

[54:40] Robert Peterpaul: Oh no.

[54:41] Nik Walker: —a loving statement about you. I am gonna write off the bat apologize to your wife because I did DM her and I don't know, it probably got lost in this.

[54:51] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, but she'll find it later.

[54:52] Nik Walker: It was fine. Yeah, but I got a good one for you. I'm gonna read it to you, and then you just have to guess who said it. Okay, it's called the compliment game.

[55:11] Robert Peterpaul: Okay, this is yours. It's sweet. I tried to make it like specific. Okay, "Nik will always ask you how you're doing. Nik likes to bring the group together and include people, and he's the cutest when talking about his love for all things Disney and Star Wars. He's also a good-looking dude who you would never know has a little nerdy side. The best kind of guy."

[55:38] Nik Walker: Now you can ask me yes or no questions, and I can also give you a hint.

[55:47] Robert Peterpaul: Is this person my Stamina cast?

[55:48] Nik Walker: Yes.

[55:49] Robert Peterpaul: Is this person Taran Killam?

[55:53] Nik Walker: No.

[55:54] Robert Peterpaul: Chris Fitzgerald?

[55:58] Nik Walker: No. Let me give you a hint, let me give you a hint. Is this person—what do you want?

[56:01] Robert Peterpaul: Well, there's not really any rules, but I tell people I guess it doesn't matter to me.

[56:05] Nik Walker: Okay, the hint is, and I think this will give it to you, we have to deal with a lot of haze together.

[56:13] Robert Peterpaul: Leslie?

[56:18] Nik Walker: Leslie! It's so funny because she literally said, she said something super sweet to me. We were at a birthday party.

[56:25] Robert Peterpaul: All right, we were at my birthday.

[56:28] Nik Walker: We had, there wasn't even a party. We just had drinks. It was like a really small group, both at a nice little bar. And it was me and Leslie and a bunch of my other friends, and Aaron was there, all these people. And Leslie was so sweet. She said something super sweet to me.

[56:50] Robert Peterpaul: And?

[56:52] Nik Walker: She basically, she called me out. She was like, "You don't know how you come off to other people, and I want you to own it." And it was so—I don't, I really, I don't like to—I don't know how to take compliments well. I'm not good with that, and I'm trying to get better. But Leslie was very great.

[57:17] Robert Peterpaul: That's the first question I ask and have asked every episode over 100 times that I did not ask you is how are you at taking compliments?

[57:24] Nik Walker: It's because I screamed—I started screaming about Batman, so I'm glad you brought this up. Terrible, because it's a tricky thing.

[57:30] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[57:31] Nik Walker: She is the heart of this show, and I'm so excited for whatever this season brings for her because it is no secret that this role fits her like a glove, that she has worked her whole life to be down front and center where she belongs. I'm so happy to be on Team Leslie and to see—to kind of be present for this season where it's very clear that like there's no ignoring her now. There's no going back after this. You have now seen somebody at the full height of their powers do exactly what they were meant to do. And I'm just, I'm so—I literally get a front row seat to it every night. So Leslie, like you.

[58:22] Robert Peterpaul: Very sweet of her.

[58:23] Nik Walker: Very. She is dazzling in this show. I mean, all of you are amazing, and I loved watching it. I loved getting to spend this little slice of time with you. And I would also just love if we could end it by—I usually ask for a—

[58:36] Robert Peterpaul: No, I wouldn't love if we could end it.

[58:37] Nik Walker: But I would love if we could end it by you answering a question.

[58:39] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, you got it, man. I usually ask for a kindness tip, something tangible. But one thing I loved learning about you is that you said you surround yourself with people that are way smarter than you.

[58:50] Nik Walker: Yes.

[58:51] Robert Peterpaul: And you seem very smart, so your troop must be off the charts intelligent. And I think it's a beautiful thing because I just feel like a lot of folks don't listen. Listening is an underrated skill, and they don't want to be around people who challenge them. Maybe we want comfort friends, who are important too. But listening is kindness to me. So as we close out, suffice to say, I would love if you could share any advice on how to be a better listener.

[59:15] Nik Walker: Yes. Okay, the best advice on being a better listener that I can give is remembering that you always have more time than you think you do. And that even if you're proven wrong in that, it was worth it to take the time. I think that we so often, at least for me, ADHD, which is, you know, what I live with, right? You have to actively—you really have to slow yourself down. But I think that one of the things that's been so special for me has been that reminder of like, my brain wants to do a million things right now, but I actually have more time than I think I do. I actually have more time. I don't have to do anything right now. I think that that's the key to listening because listening is just putting yourself down for a second.

It's putting the ego down. It's identifying—for me personally, it's been identifying what part of myself is screaming out for attention and telling that part it's going to be okay. I just, I need to have my attention elsewhere for two seconds. Right? There's a very upset 12-year-old boy right inside my chest who screams out for things often, and I have to just kind of, with the most loving care, say to him like, "I hear you. I see you. Not right now." I have to be the dad that I was so desperate for as a kid. I have to nurture that little boy. I owe it to myself to nurture that little boy, and that doesn't mean to give him what he wants. That means to really be present with him and hear him, but also to remind him that like it's not all about him.

Right? So I think that separating myself from the anxiety, you know, whether it's by personification of the anxiety or just taking a breath. Also, to your point, having friends who are smarter than you, I think that once you surround yourself with those people, once you're out of the purview of yes people and you are with people who are just on different planes or points of view, there's inevitably so much to learn. You are putting yourself in a position to learn. You want to be there to see what they do. You know, I'm just, I'm very blessed. I'm very blessed to have people who—who, um, yeah, who are just brilliant in my life.

[1:02:02] Robert Peterpaul: Brilliant. So.

[1:02:03] Nik Walker: Well, that was all so lovely. I loved listening to you, and I feel like we are blessed to have you in this entertainment industry as a role model now to look up to. And I just, I thank you for making us laugh. I feel like we just—we need to laugh right now with everything going on in the world.

[1:02:18] Nik Walker: Glad to do it. So go see Spamalot. Go check out Nik. You're killing it, and just thank you so much for your time.

[1:02:24] Nik Walker: Thank you, man. It's been a pleasure.

[1:02:29] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, thank you. And I feel like I need to go virtually ride a ride right now, though. I will say I feel like you're like in the theme park of theater right now.

[1:02:34] Nik Walker: I mean, that's what Broadway is.

[1:02:36] Robert Peterpaul: So we are literally the theme park theater.

[1:02:40] Nik Walker: Spamalot, yeah. We are—we're right there with it. So come on, come on, see us, man. It's gonna be fun.

[1:02:44] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, well enjoy the ride, my friend. It was great to meet you.

[1:02:48] Nik Walker: Thank you. Bye.

[1:02:57] Robert Peterpaul: And now it's time for your kindness tip of the week.

[1:03:03] Robert Peterpaul: Always look on the bright side of life. What a beautiful song, and I am thrilled this week to have quite the beautiful person right next to me presenting my wife, the love of my life, who never makes me feel in strife. Does that make sense? The one and only Cassie Peterpaul?

[1:03:22] Cassie Peterpaul: Hi, AOKayers! I'm here with your kindness tip, and actually, fun fact, I don't think you know this. Okay, I danced to that song in one of my dance recitals.

[1:03:29] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, pull up the video or it didn't happen.

[1:03:34] Cassie Peterpaul: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, in theme with always looking on the bright side of life, I asked if Cass could take some time to come on here and share a kindness tip that she was fully doing on her own just the other night.

[1:03:46] Cassie Peterpaul: Yeah, I was inspired probably by the Thanksgiving season to reflect on all the things I've been fortunate enough to do and have in my life and the people who made that possible. I recently actually texted my mom and just said I was thinking about my time at Marist and, um, thank you so much for making that possible. She said that made my day, so it kind of expanded in my mind. I really wanted to make that a visual practice and decided to use separate pieces of printer paper and kind of segment my life. I started with the early years, then I'm doing the in-betweens. Um, I did those two last night. I'm headed to the high school age, then college and beyond, um, and I just kind of word vomited on the page.

[1:04:36] Cassie Peterpaul: And I wish I was more artistic because in my mind it's like this beautiful mosaic of different things I'm thankful for and things I've been able to participate in. I'd have symbols and I would decorate it and all that, but I can't do that. So I kind of just, you know, filled the page with things I'm grateful for. And it also helps—I was thinking about a year ago from today or I was interviewing a lot, and a lot of the questions that you get is, you know, what brought you here today? So it's a nice way to reflect on that and kind of come up with a concise response.

[1:05:14] Robert Peterpaul: Yes, I love that. You know, ask yourself why. I think that's really important. Why am I doing the things I'm doing? Why do I feel how I feel?

[1:05:21] Cassie Peterpaul: And then ask yourself how, like you're saying. And I know once I get to the college years, it's just gonna be Cassie's name over and over again on giant sheets of paper.

[1:05:34] Robert Peterpaul: That's very sweet. I'll just write it on the wall.

[1:05:36] Cassie Peterpaul: But something I noticed too is you can find trends. So if, um, like the beginning years, I listed my best friend since kindergarten. Hey, Becca! And she appears on all my pieces of paper, and that just—and then there are some friends who, you know, everyone's there for a season or reason or, uh, I don't know. Um, so some people show up on one piece of paper, and they serve their purpose. So it's cool to trace the trends and trace the gratitude across the years.

[1:06:00] Robert Peterpaul: Yes, and I like that you texted your mom. Shout out, Patty, because it's important to actually then go when you're done and connect with these people and say thank you. And whether they can receive that or not, you know, that's not up to you. But I think just the practice of doing it will fill you with gratitude and joy. And I know that you all fill me with gratitude and joy when you tune in. So thank you for being here with us both today. And remember, as you go through your holiday season and hopefully make this list or this mosaic with stickers like Cassie's talking about, just remember everything's gonna be a-okay.