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[0:06] Robert Peterpaul: Hello, beautiful people. Welcome to the Art of Kindness, where we have compassionate conversations with artists from all areas of the entertainment industry who are using their voice to spread joy and make this big spinning planet in the universe a better place to be. I'm Robert Peterpaul, and I'm so glad you're here.

[0:37] Robert Peterpaul: How is kindness showing up for you this holiday season? I challenge you to really think about that. And I challenge myself too. Um, the last act of kindness I can think of was... I got one. Cassie getting out of bed to get my book that I left in the other room. Now, you know, once you cozy up under the covers at night and it's freezing outside, and the floor is cold and the air just kind of attacks you when you stand up, you can't be venturing out. You can't leave the igloo. But she did that for me. She risked it all and got my book, and I got to stay warm under the covers, and that's on kindness, I think. Come on. Just take a moment, if you can, to think about the last act of kindness you experienced, or it could be one that you did yourself. Good on you. I'm proud of you. Just thinking about these things and making it a practice to bring that as a priority item in our mind is powerful.

[1:44] Robert Peterpaul: Speaking of powerful, speaking of kindness, today I'm honored to be joined by someone who is practically synonymous with those words. She's well, alight. Mm-hmm. And has been on my list to interview since I started this podcast. I'm so thrilled that today's guest is Tony Award and Emmy Award winner, Judith Light. Honestly, I would have to sit here all day to read all of her accomplishments. But here's some highlights. Judith Light is a performer from New Jersey, like me, woo! Known for her extensive body of work on stage as well as in television and film. She recently received a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, in case you needed to know how iconic she is. On stage, Judith made her professional debut in 1970, and five years later found herself on Broadway in the 1975 revival of A Doll's House.

Flashing forward over many powerful performances, Light won back-to-back Tony Awards and Drama Desk Awards for Other Desert Cities in 2012 and The Assembled Parties in 2013. Woo! Her other Broadway credits include Teres Raken, I hope I'm saying that right, Lombardi, and Hersey. Light's TV career started with her two-time Emmy Award-winning turn on One Life to Live, followed by the beloved comedy series, Who's the Boss, and 15 movies of the week. She's still recognized for her glamorous turn in the Emmy-winning ABC series Ugly Betty, which earned her another Emmy nomination. Some other recent highlights include Ryan Murphy's series The Politician and The Assassination of Gianni Versace: American Crime Story, which garnered her another Emmy Nom and Critics' Choice Nom.

And let's not forget Amazon Prime's Transparent, for which she received a Golden Globe nomination and multiple Emmy and Critics' Choice nominations. Judith can also be seen in Poker Face for Peacock, which is such a good show, I recommend streaming it now. Well, after you listen to this, for which she won the Guest Actress in a Comedy Series Primetime Emmy, and so many other TV shows. She now adds another TV show to her CVS-like long receipt of a resume in the Apple TV series Before, alongside Billy Crystal. This show is the reason why we got to chat today. Light received the 2019 Isabel Stevenson Tony Award for her extensive advocacy work for LGBTQ rights and the fight against HIV/AIDS. She was also awarded the Excellence in Media Award from GLAD in May 2022.

Light sits on the board of directors at the MCC Theater in New York, which is a wonderful space. Additionally, she is working on a series of producing projects with her production company and Brillstein Creative Partners. As I mentioned, I snagged a lovely slice of time with Judith during a virtual press junket for her new show Before with Apple. Thank you for having us. Whoa, I went full Muppet there. If you don't know what a press junket is, basically it's a promotional event where stars do back-to-back interviews. It can be a long day. Despite the whirlwind energy of it all, Judith truly made me feel like I was the most important person in the room. That's one of her gifts. Shining her light onto others.

I should also note that since this wasn't done by our normal studio end, there was a slight delay at times. I truly cannot wait for you to hear these words, and I hope you take them all in and maybe listen to it again, because it's a shorter interview due to the press junket nature of it all. And yet she dropped so many gems. Please join our kindness community on social media at Art of Kindness Pod and at Robert Peterpaul for more positively unhinged fun. You can also watch full interviews on our YouTube channel, The Art of Kindness Podcast. Come join us. Oh, audio hug. Tis the season for giving, and I would appreciate if you could give us a five-star review wherever you listen to podcasts, or just share the show with a friend. It truly means the world to me to learn more about kindness with you and to build a kinder world together. Now, without further ado, please welcome the jubilant Judith Light.

[6:28] Robert Peterpaul: Hi Judith, it's so nice to meet you.

[6:28] Judith Light: Nice to meet you too.

[6:32] Robert Peterpaul: How are you?

[6:32] Judith Light: I'm good.

[6:33] Robert Peterpaul: You look so lovely.

[6:34] Judith Light: You're so sweet. Thank you so much.

[6:36] Robert Peterpaul: You're so kind.

[6:37] Judith Light: Oh, well, thank you very much. It's truly an honor to meet you because, of course, I admire your talent, but the way you seem to navigate this world with such grace and kindness is something I've always admired. So I think you're one of the perfect people to talk to today on The Art of Kindness. And before we get into, well, your new show Before, I have some kindness cues for you that I hope you'll indulge.

[7:01] Robert Peterpaul: Well, the first question I always ask on this podcast is how are you at receiving compliments? Because I think they're a big part of this industry in the way we show kindness to one another, but it can be a little tricky.

[7:13] Judith Light: I accept them as incredible gifts from people. I don't poo-poo them. I don't say, oh no, that's not true. I say thank you because I'm grateful.

[7:26] Robert Peterpaul: Such a graceful way to handle that, and I'm gonna learn from you there. What is your definition of kindness to kind of set the context for today? And how do you think it's changed over the years?

[7:38] Judith Light: I think it's about grace. And I think it's about gratitude. I, uh, for myself when I am appreciative and grateful of everything that happens in my life, even the things that people would say, oh, that's really difficult, or that's impossible, or that's painful. There is a way of accepting what comes that carries grace with it, gratitude with it, and non-victimhood. Because being a victim will, uh, cut you off from everything that is actually in your life that you get to be grateful for. And kind to other people. It's like kind to other people. What is so hard? God, what's so hard? That's why we're here, right? I think we're here to all connect and lift each other up. So when it isn't there, it's very mind-boggling to me as well.

[8:40] Judith Light: But you know, kind of flying over your incredible career as we get to Before, is there an act of kindness? I'm sure there were many, but is there one that comes to mind that you feel like stands out as getting you onto this yellow brick road into the arts that you sort of have carved out for yourself?

[8:58] Judith Light: When I was growing up, I was at a girls' school, St. Mary's Hall in Burlington, New Jersey, which is now called Done Academy. I'm a Jersey boy over here.

[9:07] Robert Peterpaul: Are you?

[9:09] Judith Light: Yay! Anyway, yeah, and we love Jersey.

[9:14] Robert Peterpaul: We do.

[9:15] Judith Light: And I had a teacher. Her name was Ruth Strand. And Mrs. Strand absolutely not only was she kind to me, she was generous to me. She supported me. She knew what I wanted to do in my life and my, you know, you were saying at the beginning of the Yellow Brick Road, which is why I thought of Aunt Ruth, which is what I always called her. And she was always really present for me in her kindness and her generosity. And also my parents. My parents were, they never enabled me. And so to some people it would look like it was that they were tough. My mother in particular. But it was their kindness and their self-sacrifice that really it's one thing to say something to someone as they're growing up. It's another thing to demonstrate to them.

And you inspire them. And that was that those were my parents. And also my my father's father, he inspired me, uh, in his kindness. And having that kind of support as an only child really makes a difference as you as you move through the world. And my it was my father who always said to me, always remember to be kind. Always be kind.

[10:52] Robert Peterpaul: I love to hear that. Such important reminders. And love is an action verb. That's something my grandma always says to me.

[11:01] Judith Light: Really?

[11:01] Robert Peterpaul: And so lovely.

[11:09] Judith Light: Exactly. And I think that's extended to who you are now, because you're someone I think who really walks the walk. But if you're gonna talk about it, it's like it's useless. Your words have you they they they have no impact. It's like you have a way to make someone once said to me, uh, people will will rarely remember what you say to them, but they will always remember how you made them feel.

[11:38] Robert Peterpaul: I think it's Maya Angelou said that, perhaps.

[11:41] Judith Light: Yeah. I love that so much.

[11:43] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. And I think you're right. I think part of the sort of impetus for this podcast, for lack of a better word, was to try and incite action. So we have these conversations in the hopes that people then walk away and smile at someone in the street or whatever it may be. And I look at someone like you as a role model in this industry who's been a part of so many iconic projects over the years, and I wonder what what have you sort of seen as the secret sauce? What do you ultimately think makes a kind set or a kind artistic space? Have you noticed anything across the board?

[12:13] Judith Light: You hold it as a context of where you come from. And what I mean by that by a context is like, you know, like this glass. This glass is the context, right? I can put anything, the content can be anything that goes in this glass. But is it the framework, it's the holder. And if your context is to be kind and generous to people, and not Pollyanna, because that can make me throw up. But but really genuinely asking somebody about how they are or who they are or what they're doing or what their life is about or how because everybody's got something going on. What is it? Somebody once somebody else once said, it's like be kind to everybody. Everybody's going through something. So remembering those things and holding those things, it's not like this business isn't about you. Life isn't about you. It's about other people. And it's about other people who are in the world with you and your purview.

[13:19] Judith Light: So you complaining, you saying things are not working for you. It's all, it's it's it's it's all nonsense. You can look at it from a different context and you can say, wow, that's really gonna teach me something. That is spectacular. Have you had Wendy Sullivan on? She created the brand Unkinder Than That Wendy, you have not. You would love Wendy. And also uh there's a great book that a very dear friend who is also incredibly kind to me, brought me back to the one of the people who brought me back to the theater, uh, Daryl Roth. Amanda Salazar and uh Dale Atkins wrote a book called The Kindness Advantage. Uh, I don't know if you've had them on, but they're really they're great people. And Amanda is Daryl's daughter.

Um that's how I knew about the book. Yeah. But that's where that's where that all the people that I admire, that's where they come from. They come from that place. And what does it cost you to be nice to somebody? What does it cost you? It's like you know. That's the joke. It comes back to you. You know, there's act I work with an organization called Kindness.org. It's a nonprofit that studies kindness from a scientific point of view. Right. And it's a fact that it does come back to you. And one of the studies we're working on to get to before, because I want to make sure I I bring that up, is all about how actually being scared and being thrilled is sort of in a safe way, is an act of kindness because it it does something to your brain chemistry.

And this show, it certainly thrilled me. I watched the first few episodes. I know. So it's sort of an act of kindness to watch before, is what I'm saying. And I that's so interesting. What do you mean when you get scared that it's an act of kindness? Tell me, say can you explain that?

[15:12] Judith Light: We're looking into the research in regards to Halloween and kindness, and so I had this thought of maybe there's something there, and our wonderful lab called Kind Lab found, I don't have it in front of me here, but they found studies that basically show being scared in a safe way. So watching a scary movie, um to a haunted house. But you said the the clue. The clue is the context is in a safe way. And that's what before does. That's what Apple has been so brave in putting this on because it is a story that could could maybe scare you. It's a psychological thriller. But it's done in the safest, most beautiful, tender way, with a foundation of love. And that that that I completely understand that.

I would never have thought about it like that, but that's incredible. Yeah, it's so fascinating. And I can see that foundation of love, even in the way it's shot, and just having people like yourself, who sort of you have this very cashmere, lovely presence and Billy Crystal we all love. You know, I guess my first question for you, as we get into before is what's with the farmhouse.

[16:30] Judith Light: I know, I know. It it right, it's the clue to everything. It's the clue, and you haven't seen the whole show. And as you watch it, you I get chills when I talk about it so incredible. When you see what the farmhouse actually is, what the place and time is, you will be.

[17:30] Judith Light: That he exudes made everybody on the set feel great camaraderie and collaboration in doing the show. He is the personification of kindness without question. It doesn't surprise me, and I'm I'm thrilled to hear that. Yeah. And I wonder in that environment, sort of inwardly, Judith, I would love to know how are you kind to yourself as an artist who gives so much? I mean, I look at what you've done, and it takes a lot of hours. It takes a lot of energy. Even this takes a lot of energy, a press day. So I wonder how do you show yourself kindness?

[18:09] Judith Light: I take a bath every night. Every single night. And it's like, oh, she takes a bath. Oh, that's so cute. It's like washing off the day, letting go of all that happened, grateful for the other things that did happen. What is it that I can clear myself of that I can bring to my sleep time and really get good sleep? And what is it that I can get rid of that is unnecessary to bring something new and fresh and illuminating and elevating to people the next day. So that really is essential for me. I meditate every day. And I really stay conscious and aware of my of my behavior toward myself, my self-talk, and how I'm being with other people. So those are some of some of the things that that I do.

[19:19] Robert Peterpaul: Thank you for sharing that. That awareness is so key, and I wish we had more of that in this world. You know, I talked to Jody Comer at the Tony's, and she told me the same thing. She takes baths. And so I think there is sort of a cleansing magical energy there. There is. Everyone listening can, you know, take with them and maybe take a bath or a shower. That can work too, I think.

[19:39] Judith Light: Exactly. Just as long as you're washing off the day. And when you're there, somebody said to me, when you take your bath, hold yourself as one with the water. And I thought, what the hell does that mean? And then I said, well, just do it. And I I started doing it. And there's something about it. Um, and you'll see that water and baths come very much to play in this as you come watching along in in before. You you'll see how how it plays into all of the story.

[20:26] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, I thought it was interesting that you mentioned a bath because I think we even see in the first episode there is something with a bath that you'll all find out. And no spoilers, but I think it's in the summary, you you do appear as an apparition, you know, at the start of the show. I wonder, this is a sillier question, but we've had some deeper ones, so maybe it's needed. Do you do you personally have like any ghost encounters of your own that you can share? I mean, you've worked in Broadway theaters that are haunted. Have you ever had a moment of no?

[20:56] Judith Light: I I really, I really haven't. Um, and I, you know, I'm I'm really open to the possibility that those things happen to other people and that they are true. That this isn't all there there is, this is not all there is. I mean, if you look at quantum physics, you'll see that all of this is moving molecules. This is not solid, this is this is moving molecules. So um I I haven't had those things. I've had the kind of things that I'm sure you've had this too. Many people have. It's like you meet someone and you go, Oh, oh, there you are. Oh, I I know you, I I remember you. I I oh and you have no idea that neither of you have known each other from the past, but you both have that experience. It's like, oh, there you are.

So I've had that. But the other stuff, no. But I'm intrigued by it. I read about it, I study it. We did a lot of talking about those sorts of things, excuse me, when we were doing the the starting to talk about the the before. And one of them uh was a book called The Search for Brighty Murphy. Uh Life After Life. Uh we talked about Brian uh Brian Weiss's work. Uh we talked about Ian Stevenson's work. I mean, and if you don't know these things, these are uh really applicable to this particular to this story, to this, to this thriller and like what's with the farmhouse.

[22:42] Judith Light: So I know. Exactly. Exactly. But remember when uh not remember, but uh sometimes what is said is that when someone keeps appearing to you, the there's a sense in which you're not complete with them, that you have uh business to finish with that person and with Billy and me in the show, that was very clear. There were very specific moments when when I come to him. And it was always built on what I I knew the k the character was needing in that moment, and that's when Lynn would appear. Uh and because he wasn't finished. He'll see. Well, in life too, I I'm getting the signal that we have to wrap up in a moment, which I'm sad about. But in in life too, I think that reappearance, even just thinking about someone every day can kind of activate kindness because it's almost like if we texted someone every time we thought about them, there's something energetic there that we could put out there. The world might be a happier place.

[23:45] Judith Light: Well, also don't don't you uh and this is another experience, it's like you think about somebody, and all of a sudden you'll get a text from them, or you'll hear from them, or they'll call you. That's not just coincidence, I don't think. There's something energetic because we are energy. Uh and yes, all of what you're talking about in terms of kindness and making sure that we're not just listening to someone, but that we're really hearing them. Really seeing them. Those are acts of kindness. So many arguments would be dissipated. If that were the case, it's like, oh, I didn't know you felt that way. I just heard what you said. I didn't I didn't know you felt that way. Um I hear you. I could hear you, I I get it. Not I understand, because that's in the head. It's like I get it. I it's it's here. And I've I got it now. I I hear you. I see you. What's the movie Avatar? I see you.

[24:56] Judith Light: And that translates to acting too, which is I'm sure some of your magic to why you're such a brilliant actor is that active listening. And we have about one minute left, but I did want to ask you, you know, I I so admire your advocacy work, and I I love how you do so much to make this world a better place. You want a Tony Award for it. I mean, do you have a tangible kindness tip that we can end on here? Something specific you would like everyone out there listening to do on their own corner just to make the world a little brighter.

[25:24] Judith Light: Remember that it's not about you. Remember always to be of service, always to be grateful, and always to remember that we're all here for a purpose. And when you find that, you will know what you are meant to do and how you are meant to relate to other people, and how you can elevate and illuminate anyone that comes into your world or any experience that you have.

[25:57] Robert Peterpaul: Just beautiful. Well, I'm so glad that I got to experience a little bit of time with you today. And that everyone listening got to as well. Congratulations on before. And thank you just for being someone in this industry that we can consistently look up to. I can't wait to see what you do next.

[26:13] Judith Light: Thank you. You are as well, just so you know.

[26:16] Robert Peterpaul: Thank you.

[26:17] Judith Light: Thank you. That's very sweet. Thank you. I'm gonna hold that close to my heart. I'll take that in.

[26:20] Robert Peterpaul: Good. Thank you all, everybody.