This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Max Talisman: Hi, I'm Max Talisman, and you're listening to The Art of Kindness.

[0:09] Robert Peterpaul: Hello, beautiful people. Welcome to The Art of Kindness, where we have compassionate conversations with artists from all areas of the entertainment industry who are using their voice to spread joy and make this big spinning planet in the universe a better place to be.

[0:25] Robert Peterpaul: I'm Robert Peterpaul, and I'm so glad you're here.

[0:37] Robert Peterpaul: Hello and welcome back, friends. Thank you for choosing kindness by tuning in today.

[0:42] Robert Peterpaul: Today's guest is actor, writer, director, and overall creative powerhouse, Max Talisman.

[0:53] Robert Peterpaul: Max Talisman is rapidly emerging as a force in Hollywood. With standout performances in the indie thriller Super Dark Times, the Jennifer Lopez flick, Marry Me, watched it on a plane and really enjoyed it. And TV series like Orange is the New Black, The Blacklist, and Search Party.

[1:13] Robert Peterpaul: Max makes his highly anticipated directorial debut with Things Like This, a bold reimagining of queer romance that follows two men with the same name as they navigate love and self-discovery in New York City.

[1:28] Robert Peterpaul: The film steers away from traditional coming-out or trauma-centered stories, instead embracing humor, complexity, and the universal joy of connection, positioning it as one of 2025's most exciting indie releases.

[1:45] Robert Peterpaul: It's also got a star-studded cast. A joyful connection describes my time with Max as well. So I hope you light a candle or the bat signal. No no no no no no no no. You'll get that later. And enjoy this conversation on kindness and honesty, leading a set with kindness and more.

[2:22] Robert Peterpaul: Find out how you can enter to win on our social media pages at Art of Kindness Pod and at Robert Peterpaul. See you there, friend. And now without further ado, please enjoy the magnificent Max Talisman.

[2:48] Robert Peterpaul: Where are you calling from today, Max?

[2:50] Max Talisman: Um, I'm from calling from West Hollywood.

[2:53] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, how's it over there?

[2:55] Max Talisman: It I well, I haven't been outside yet today, to be fair. But I'd assume it's very warm.

[3:01] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, that checks out.

[3:03] Max Talisman: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It feels like I mean it's definitely getting it's getting to be summer here as well, I'm sure, as in New York and all over, but it's summer here is different from, you know, New York and where I grew up. It's it's it's it's like uh it's dry.

[3:14] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[3:19] Max Talisman: I miss the humidity, yeah.

[3:21] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, I think that's the first time I ever heard anybody say that.

[3:23] Max Talisman: Well, let me be clear. I actually hate humidity.

[3:25] Robert Peterpaul: Okay.

[3:26] Max Talisman: It does, it is different because like there's a water in the air.

[3:31] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[3:32] Max Talisman: And like when you're in the dry heat, you're my throat's always dry. It's very strange. It's like it's different.

[3:37] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, I get that. I just saw an interview with Kelly Clarkson, and I think it was Jonathan Groff. And they both took lozenges out of their shirts like halfway through, and they're like, I'm so dry, and they started laughing.

[3:48] Max Talisman: Because you love it. My favorite Jonathan Groff interview is the one where he's on um, he did like the uh lie detector test with...

[3:49] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, I think I saw it, yeah.

[3:59] Max Talisman: Daniel Radcliffe.

[3:59] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[3:59] Max Talisman: He's like talking about his, you know, he spits when he sings and he's like, I get wet. Like they can't handle it. They're like, You're bringing it wrong. Stop talking about it.

[4:07] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, yeah. Especially just in time is a new show because people are right up there. It's like the Graf sauce zone.

[4:14] Max Talisman: I know it's at the um at the circle in the square. So like very intimate.

[4:19] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. Do you get to come see Broadway shows often? Because I know you're a musical buff.

[4:23] Max Talisman: I do. I do. I was just um so I was in New York for two or for yeah, a week and a half for the premiere of the movie, and before um, I was like, you know, doing stuff at night every night, I was seeing as many shows as I could.

[4:37] Max Talisman: I did get in a bunch of the new season before, um, and I'm hoping to get in a few more um when I'm there for New York Pride at the end of June. Right now I've only missed one of the best musical nominees. I haven't seen Operation Mince Mate yet.

[4:50] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, same.

[4:53] Max Talisman: Yeah. I like read it. I got kind of into a callback loop for it when they were just gonna test the people that they had.

[4:58] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[4:58] Max Talisman: So I read it and I listened to it, and it it's funny. I mean, it seems funny. I've heard that. I mean, it's very qu I think it's very quirky, it's very British. Yeah, good story, interesting story.

[5:08] Robert Peterpaul: What's your number one?

[5:09] Max Talisman: Of the year.

[5:10] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[5:10] Max Talisman: It's tough. I know it's a tough one.

[5:12] Max Talisman: It's a tough one. Uh I did, I I mean, I love the Sunset Boulevard revival because I mean, I just I'd seen that show uh done a few times, and it's so like I love when something is done so differently but works.

[5:27] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[5:28] Max Talisman: You see, because you see sometimes things are stripped down or changed and it doesn't work. Yeah, but it really did for me.

[5:34] Max Talisman: Um I also really did love Dead Outlaw. I thought it was so creative, so innovative, so cool. And um honestly, I really loved uh Buena Vista Social Club.

[5:45] Robert Peterpaul: The dancing was unbout to go see that. I heard it's such a good one.

[5:49] Max Talisman: The musicians were incredible, the dancing was so good. Or the other the other nominees are is it just maybe happy ending and yeah, maybe happy ending, which is such a sweet little gem. There's death becomes her, which is uh...

[6:00] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, love death becomes her.

[6:03] Max Talisman: Good time. Yeah. That was so fun. I saw it in previews of like months ago. It was so fun.

[6:08] Robert Peterpaul: It is so fun. That opening number that she does is not not Michelle Williams, the Megan Hilton.

[6:13] Max Talisman: Both are great.

[6:14] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[6:17] Max Talisman: Like we were dying.

[6:18] Robert Peterpaul: Oh my gosh. So many quick changes running around and stare bit.

[6:22] Max Talisman: Yeah, there's a lot of laugh-out-loud moments. It's a great year, honestly, for musicals. There's a lot of stuff.

[6:26] Robert Peterpaul: There's a lot of musicals that were really good that weren't even nominated because it was just stacked.

[6:31] Max Talisman: I know. It's wild when that happens. It's like when it rains, it pours.

[6:35] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[6:35] Max Talisman: To quote Sunset Boulevard Max in like a crazy way.

[6:39] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. We gotta get into you and your movie.

[6:41] Max Talisman: Please, thank you.

[6:42] Max Talisman: Yeah, I know, such a delightful film. So many laugh-out-loud moments, like we were just touching on, particularly from Jackie Cruz, I think. She the way she delivered that dialogue, some good jokes in there. There was a toothbrush bit that I'm not gonna spoil that was pretty hilarious.

[6:58] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. The first question I always ask before we get into that, you know, to kind of break down kindness a bit here in the arts. I'm guessing you're getting a lot for your movie now. So how are you at taking compliments and sort of receiving that love when you're so close to it?

[7:11] Max Talisman: You did a good job just now, but thank you. Um it's I mean, it's it's interesting actually, as someone who grew up doing theater, you kind of like you get used to like right after a show, people coming up to you. And like the thing is you're kind of in a different headspace, so you have to kind of get used to compliments pretty quickly and being like genuine.

[7:34] Max Talisman: And I am, I mean, like the thing is everyone who's come up to me, it means so much because this movie took eight years. Like it took so it took a large portion of my life. And so, you know, for people to come up to me and for it to resonate with them, it's it's not only a compliment to me, but it's also to everyone who worked on it, but it's also just like an honor, like it means a lot.

[7:58] Max Talisman: And so it's one of those things where like I I said to someone who messaged me on Instagram after they saw a talk back and they were like, I wanted to say hi, but like you were talking to, you know, uh other people, I didn't want to wait around. And I was like, please, next time you see me, just like feel free to come up. Like, I I want to hear what this film meant, if it meant something to you.

[8:22] Max Talisman: Um, I also like I welcome um, you know, uh any sort of uh critique, but you know, in a constructive way, like let's have a conversation about it.

[8:32] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, not like the opening of your film, not that kind of critique.

[8:35] Max Talisman: No, no, no, not that anymore. I've done that. That's why I wrote it, because that's happening.

[8:40] Robert Peterpaul: So I couldn't agree.

[8:41] Max Talisman: Oh wow, that's brutal. I'm sorry.

[8:43] Max Talisman: Oh, it's fine. I mean, like, that's the thing. Like, when you go through these experiences, writing it sort of gives you power over what happened in a way. Like it makes you, you know, um re-examine the situation in a really um cool lens.

[8:58] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. Well, speaking of hopefully a cool lens for everybody out there. Obviously, if you're tuning in, you know we're gonna talk about kindness a bit here. Looking at your film through the lens of kindness, I did want to break down even the beginning because I think I've had people on here. I mean, it was Mr. Wonderful from Shark Tank, so this is no shocker. But he was saying that kindness is honesty to him.

[9:18] Max Talisman: Yeah.

[9:19] Robert Peterpaul: And the film opens with like brutal honesty. So I want to get into that, but first, I think we need some context. What is your definition of kindness, Max? And how do you think it's changed over the years?

[9:32] Max Talisman: You know, it's interesting because I always feel like, in my opinion, kindness goes hand in hand with empathy and with trying to understand other people, putting yourself in their experiences, like when someone's explaining to you something that hurt them, or you know, something that just made them joyful, like it it's sometimes I think people have a hard time trying to put themselves in that lens. But um, I think it's important that um to me, kindness is really just about being there for other humans and and uh, you know, putting myself in a place where I am starting from a place of understanding.

[10:16] Robert Peterpaul: Hmm. Well, now you're gonna live on and be there for people all the time. You won't even know. They'll just press play of your movie and you'll be there for them.

[10:23] Max Talisman: I mean, I'm glad because I've had so many, you know, films and uh TV shows that have been there for me in that way. So if this movie can be that for one person, then like I've done my job.

[10:32] Robert Peterpaul: Well, kind of speaking of that, I guess growing up in DC, I believe, is there an act of kindness that you feel like changed your life and kind of put you on the path that you're currently on?

[10:43] Max Talisman: I'm sure there were a bunch, but to any server.

[10:45] Max Talisman: I mean, yeah, I think I mean there's uh so many are coming to mind to be honest. Good. That's good. There's a big one that my my dad did, which is that um, you know, I would be in these um shows which were like all the theater kids in DC and the area, and um my dad was um like an extremely busy and um just he's so busy. He used to be assistant secretary of the treasury under Clinton, and then he went into being um a tax lawyer. So he's like one of the busiest people I've ever met.

[11:19] Max Talisman: But for tech week, he was there every day to do sound. Oh, be there at 5 p.m., he would leave work, he would wait in traffic for an hour, doing calls the whole way. And it's like something that's really resonated through my life is that my dad was really the busiest person I ever knew, but he never made me and my siblings feel like we weren't the number one priority, which was amazing.

[11:45] Max Talisman: Um that's the main first thing of kindness. My mom also spent most days of the week growing up when I was in school volunteering at like this uh at a soup kitchen nearby, Bethesda Cares shout out. Um still there. So um just she would like, you know, go to different um uh shelters and and uh you know, babysit the kids and stuff.

[12:09] Max Talisman: So she made service a major priority, and so it definitely um became a priority for me and my siblings as well. And then the the one I was going to say um is uh Trisha Jeffrey, who's in this film, um, is a Broadway actress.

[12:27] Max Talisman: She we did Caroliner changed together in 2006, which was my first professional production. I was twelve. And um Wow. She played Emmy, which if anyone knows the show, she's the daughter, and I played um Noah who's the the kid who's having all these experiences. But for the next, you know, 15 16 years after that, I would maybe not mean I'm trying to like but it was a long time. Like I would go up for a distance after in New York and I would go up by myself, um, like on a bus. And she every time would have dinner with me if she was available. Oh. And it just meant so much to have someone in the business like showing me a door into what it was really like, but also how to still be there for others when you are, you know, struggling, but also just having the experience of joy of being an artist.

Like it was really an extremely cool thing for me to see and she was so there for me every time. So I've said this to her too. Like it m it m it really impacted me. Um and um I'm just grateful that she she did that.

[13:41] Robert Peterpaul: Thank you for sharing that. Because it's like we get by with a little bit of help from our friends, right? As the song says those really connect with your definition of kindness. Those were all sort of examples of people literally being there for you, which it doesn't take much, right? Anybody listening out there, just try and be there for somebody else today. And it's hard because kindness is so subjective, like I said before. Kindness might be honesty to somebody, maybe not to somebody else. And so you kind of have to figure out how to be there for each person in your life, which is yeah the fun stuff, you know?

[14:13] Max Talisman: Absolutely. I wonder for you. I think the perfect person to be there for you is probably Robin, because I know you're just trying to be more like Batman every day. And I gotta say, before we get into your movie, like an even bigger feat is nailing that social media bio line. And I mean, like your social media presence is just off the charts. I was checking it out, and you have so much engagement, so much love on there. I just had to point that bio out. Like tell tell me about this bio.

[14:38] Max Talisman: Um, well, I am like a huge Batman fan. Uh it's like my my little um my little peek into nerdism. I uh I love Batman. I have actually like I'm not gonna show, but I have a little Batman corner in my room. That's just oh my gosh, that's amazing. It's a little section of just like little Batman things. I'm um and it's hidden. It's hidden behind a door. So like no. Yeah, we gotta flaunt that. I also have a Batman painting in my living room, so it's not like I'm hiding them about.

[15:08] Max Talisman: Oh, sweet. It's like my okay, my my real section is hidden. I don't want people to steal my stuff. Yeah, you don't want them to take it. But it's like I did do that to my friend Joey, Joey Planamoli. I'm so sorry, in middle school. He like had all the Batman collectibles, and I I put like an action figure in my pocket. I didn't mean to, but he noticed. Yeah, and I had to go. It has to happen. I was in um Universal City for a talk back this weekend, and um we went and they have like this really cool like memorabilia store. That's like a ton of like signatures and stuff, but they had all of the like action figures from like Batman Forever. And I was like, this is literally my childhood.

[15:43] Robert Peterpaul: Oh my gosh. Is that your Batman movie? Is that your number one?

[15:46] Max Talisman: It's not my number one. No, my number one is the my my favorite movie of all time is the Dark Knight. It's a perfect film to me.

[15:51] Robert Peterpaul: Same. That's in yeah, it's in my top five favorite movies.

[15:54] Max Talisman: Yeah, it's so good. There's no I am I've never anyone who has a note for the Dark Knight, you're wrong. I'm sorry. It's so good.

[16:04] Robert Peterpaul: It is so good.

[16:05] Max Talisman: Yeah, no, my my definitive Batman uh is that trilogy.

[16:10] Robert Peterpaul: Okay. I love that. I like that you had an answer too, because I feel like it's hard sometimes to narrow that down. Because we did grow up with like the can't be, you know, Ivy, George Clooney situation.

[16:20] Max Talisman: Right. And there's some things to take from each other. I mean, like, those were the films that like, you know, I had like the toys from because I was young then, but I was too scared to like see it at that age. Like I thought it was like scary.

[16:34] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[16:37] Max Talisman: I love horror now, but I think the first time I watched any of them was like I saw the Jack Nicholson Batman. I must have been like nine, ten. But like I was really sure I was gonna be scared. And I wasn't, but it was fine. It was fine.

[16:53] Robert Peterpaul: Well, Tim Burton's is is is probably the creepiest I would say. Honestly, probably my favorite of the those four, the first four in the Batman Schumacher, I mean the Burton Schumacher is uh returns. I love returns.

[17:04] Max Talisman: Yeah, it's really good.

[17:07] Robert Peterpaul: So good. Rochelle Pfeiffer, Catwoman. I mean, it's so much.

[17:09] Max Talisman: Oh, so good. You you really can't top that and the costume and everything. And I mean Halle Berry, she she she did her own version as well, but you know, and so did Anne Hathaway. Anyway.

[17:20] Max Talisman: I loved Hathaways, actually. I loved it. And Zoe Crabit, it's like there's a lot. And Zoe, yeah. And honestly, I this is gonna be shocking for some people. I I I don't think the problem with that film is Halle Berry.

[17:30] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, the Catwoman, the movie?

[17:32] Max Talisman: Yeah, I don't think the problem's her performance. I had the video game. It's a good time.

[17:36] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[17:37] Max Talisman: You whip around. Yeah. Right, exactly. Yeah, no, she was no, she she can't really do any wrong. Halle Berry is an iconic. Beautiful, talented. No. No. Yeah. It does not age at all. Well, it takes a lot to make a movie. And so we're gonna return now to things like this.

[17:52] Robert Peterpaul: Yes. Which you wrote, directed, and star in.

[17:55] Max Talisman: Yeah. I love that this film started, I believe, from a place of you wanting to see yourself on screen. You've shared in other interviews. Can you just take us through that a bit and what it means to you now to have it out there in the world?

[18:07] Max Talisman: Yeah, I mean, you know, it's this thing where really all I wanted to do was tell my story because I just I didn't feel represented in the media that I was watching. And um it's it's the sort of thing where I didn't I I just didn't feel like I could see what I wanted to see. I wanted to see something that felt authentic. I wanted to feel like I was watching something that um, you know, it felt like my life, and it just wasn't there. So, like they say, if if you don't see it, write it. And um, it really was this thing where I was writing a different script, it wasn't clicking, it just wasn't happening. Then I was like, you know what? It this keeps turning into this comedy. Like, let me just try to write a rom com.

Like, let me just see what happens. And um, the first draft was done in four days. Wow. Uh, and obviously that's you know, eight years ago. Many drafts since then, many changes. But um, but it was important for me to just I think I needed it in the world somewhere.

[19:16] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[19:17] Max Talisman: So the it happened very quickly, the first draft. Um, but it it really did come from that place. It came from something that um I think was just this impulse of I need to see myself reflected in media. And I need others like me to see themselves reflected as well.

[19:36] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. That's so beautiful. I think it it's when it comes from that genuine place, it really shows on screen. At the same time, we have a lot of creatives that listen to this podcast. I'm a writer too. I know that especially when you're very close to something, it's definitely a journey to learn how to take notes. So in between those eight years, although you wanted to see a very specific thing on screen and I'm sure you wouldn't compromise on some things, I guess what's your advice to others on getting their story told and not sort of holding it back. Do you know what I mean? Because I think that can be tricky.

[20:08] Max Talisman: For sure. I think it's interesting because I think when a lot of people see that um sorry like my water bottle shaking and I can't tell if it's me I'm in another earthquake. I'm literally I'm like oh I don't think it is actually one because nothing else is shaking. I think it's okay. I thought it was the bat symbol turning on.

[20:26] Max Talisman: Yeah no right I gotta go. Um but uh uh your question I think you know it's funny because a lot of people see my name in multiple places on this film and so they m they might think like you know that it was a situation where I um didn't you know take a lot of notes or take a lot of criticisms or listen to um you know other people in the room. But that was the most important part of this process was listening to everyone else. I only was able to make this film because of the notes and the generous advice I got from every person around along the way. And um, I'm not saying every note worked, but I I had to hear each one. I had to work out each one to see if it was something that uh served it or not.

And I was lucky that I had some collaborators who were with me from the beginning. Buzz Koenig, my producer is number one. Danny Chabriaga, who's my other producer, is number two. And like they were there every step to really go through the script. Buzz and I spent an entire summer where we met every day and just edited. Um, and to me, it was a situation where every time he had a note, we we tried it. It wasn't and and even on set, things changed. You know, Barbara Berry came in and rewrote her whole scene. And I was and it was it was better than what I wrote. And um, Joey and I would riff a lot, you know, we would just film ourselves improving, and um it was important for me that, you know, especially because I was holding these three hats that everyone knew um the most important thing to me was hearing from them.

[22:21] Robert Peterpaul: I love that. That's one of my favorite acts of kindnesses, especially in our industry, is read someone's script, you know, give someone's passion attention. It's free. Yeah, it can take a lot of time if you're doing it a lot, and yes, you have to take care of yourself, but yeah, just do that and give someone no like people want your feedback. We want to make this a collaborative art, and I think it's something so easy and simple that we can do. So I know it it can be hard to get people to read a full screenplay something.

[22:47] Max Talisman: No, I mean, we I mean, I keep my um my production company's email on uh on IMDB for a reason. I welcome it. Like please send us scripts, and it's it's not like we're a large thing. So like, or yet we will be, but like, you know, right now there's only a few of us here. So like if a script's coming through, um I'm seeing it. And uh we're all seeing it. Um, me, Danny, and um of the few of us who are at this company. So like we're seeing it. And um it's I love to read scripts, and as someone who's read scripts for years, it's a little time consuming, but you know, you get used to it. It's it's an easier read than a book for me. Like I'll say that. And it's fine. Put it up on the TV, invite some friends over, read it together, assign the parts, make some popcorn, you know, and and then give notes.

[23:34] Max Talisman: And speaking of notes, again, I circled around this, but your film opens with this moment of brutal notes and honesty. That's terrible, but it did make me curious about your thoughts sort of on I honesty and kindness. Like this guy thinks he's probably doing you a kindness, at least as an actor, I would think that's probably his intention. I don't think he's trying to be mean to you. So what are your thoughts there?

[23:57] Max Talisman: Well, you know, the scene isn't written from like a specific moment, but it's written from my experience. So dating in New York, I had these moments where I think these men thought they were showing me kindness by this honesty, but it wasn't. Um it wasn't kindness, it was uh their opinion mass as what they thought was something I needed to know or learn about myself. Um, and especially when it's something like weight or you know, my body, like there are reasons, you know, for people and their bodies that you might not know, and you have no right to judge people, and you have no right to assume that you know um, you know, if they feel good about themselves.

[24:43] Max Talisman: Like how I think it's this situation where what if for me I love myself the way I am? You know, what if I don't need your criticism on how I look because I'm okay? You know, like I'm good with this. Um, you know, I it was important for me in this scene to really address it, but also I didn't want it to be the plot of the film at the same time because it isn't something for me as a plus size person that um, you know, I really when I go after someone that I think about, because at the end of the day, I am me and I am I know I'm offering something really special to people. So um when they address this kind of thing to me, it's not it's their feedback. Um direct more about them too. It's it's more about their fears and whatever, and that's actually exactly what I took away from the moment, besides sort of setting up the comedy aspect of the film.

It just it does really set up this character as someone who's been through it, like kind of calloused, has that callous built up, doesn't really care, and it's not gonna stop him. So I think it was successful in that sense.

[25:57] Max Talisman: And I did have a note here on a different note to say. Yeah dark blue, dark blue. No, okay. I love that song, that Jack's Mannequin song. Are you a big Jax Mannequin fan? Because that I think you know, I'm a child of the early 2000s in terms of music. So absolutely I'm a Jax Manikin fan. I'm uh I'm an all American rejects fan. You like I'm uh, you know, fallout boys. Like it's it's you know, it was important for me that like the song between the two of them was something that made sense, yeah. Something that really resonated from that time. And like I think there's this element to me of you know those who grew up with this music that there is this connector to our history through that music.

[26:40] Max Talisman: Yeah. Um and it does anytime I hear like it ends tonight, I'm like high school, middle school. Like I'm there. Yep. Exactly. So like I wanted a song that resonated in that way. And dark blue is so like emotional, but it also has this what I love about dark blue is the differences in the music versus the lyrics. Yeah. It reminds me also of like um Somewhere Only We Know. Like there's this thing in music from that time that was able to balance that. And I thought for a rom com it just was this, you know, perfect song. Um because at the same time I wanted to talk about love. I wanted to talk about the fear of letting yourself fall in love. So it felt like the right song to connect them. Yeah, you're gonna get those dark blue bruises on this journey, this dating journey, but don't be afraid. Don't be able to let it stop. Don't be afraid.

[27:40] Max Talisman: Yeah, no, I mean, I think you know, we're all when we're trying to fall in love, we're like trying to heal those, you know, those wounds from the past. Um, so yeah. Well, speaking of healing wounds, these transitions are off the charts today, not gonna lie. No, they're they're really not. What was your approach as a leader on this film? Because there's a lot of research that says kind leaders and more empathetic leaders, which you see more so in the arts, are more successful. So what I mean, did you think about that as a leader?

[28:07] Max Talisman: I I mean, absolutely. I wanted to, you know, always feel like anyone could come up to me with anything, but I, you know, I didn't really see myself as quote unquote director. Like I really saw myself as team leader in a way of like this is a collaboration between everyone on the set. And I just hired the best people, to be honest, like for each department. Each actor was so great that by the time we got on set, it was really just everyone was able to say what they wanted. We were able to, you know, create these beautiful situations together. And um like at the end of the day, obviously it was me who made the final decisions, but it was a situation where everyone knew that their opinion was extremely important and um and vital to the production. Like I wanted it to feel when you watch this film, like it's a collaboration between everyone who's there.

[29:06] Max Talisman: Yeah, everyone that's there is a dream. I mean, what a dreamy stacked cast that you've got. Come on. Yeah, exactly. So it's that. I mean, it's like I don't need, you know, when I'm acting with Jackie Cruz, I really just want to explore the scene with her. Yeah. Um, almost as like we're doing a scene study moment together, but there's a camera there. So obviously it's an elevated situation. You have to be aware of that. You don't have endless time. Yeah. But you know, she doesn't need endless time. She is already at a level that's just this magnetic, powerful force. Yeah. And um I loved her character. That's why we were lucky. We just hired we got we got this cast where everyone was came in, like, you know, ready to just perform in the perfect way and be the character. So, you know, at it was really just my job to um point a camera and capture it. And such awesome people wanted to be a part of this, you know. You know, Jackie and Eric Roberts.

[30:07] Max Talisman: Yeah, that man never stops working, honestly. Yes, no, he doesn't. He doesn't. No, he never stops working. It's true. I think he's he makes like hundreds of films a year. I did a an Amazon show that he was on for the day, and it was just funny to see him come in just for the joy of it. He really is. He I mean, he's an actor's actor, he's there because he loves it. And um, I I seeing that it's like it's really special. Um, and it means a lot as a young actor to see someone who still every day just wants to be on a set and needs to be on a set. Um I there's you know, he does so much work because he loves it, and that's just inspiring.

[30:46] Max Talisman: Yeah. So um, and everything he does is so high level um in terms of his performances. So um, yeah, no, it was it getting him on board was luckily like a situation that happened pretty serendipitously because we share an agent and I just signed with them. This is in 2020, and um, they read my script and they were like, We think Eric is great for this. Would you like, you know, want to work with Eric? And I was like, Yeah, I would absolutely are you kidding me? Yes, please. So um it worked out really well. Umly positive, and um, I was I had got lunch with him like two weeks later, I think, and it was it was clear that it was going to work on set as well.

[31:30] Robert Peterpaul: I love that. Well, it makes me wonder too on set. On set, are there any acts of kindness that stand out to you from the process? Did anybody do anything during that time that you know really brightened your day and made it an easier load? Because it's it's a lot of work while it's fun. It's a lot of long hours.

[31:46] Max Talisman: Absolutely. I am so there's a moment. Um, my friend Emily Rapla plays uh a character called uh Trina, and she plays the drums in the final scene. And in the dance, um, we it was actually in our production office and we cleared everything to make it like a high school dance. Good job. Thank you. Um, and uh she was there for the day, and she's one of my closest friends, but she's also an amazing drummer, by the way. But uh she there was so much fog that the fire alarm went off, and this is at like 3 a.m. We had to be wrapped by four. So, like we were all just exhausted. Um, and so they move us all outside, and uh she came up to me and she was like, and you know, once again, she's talent on this, whatever, but she's like, Can I get you anything?

[32:34] Max Talisman: Oh, and it was just like, oh my god, like you're so sweet, but no, like thank you so much. Yeah, I love you, but like please sit down, like rest. But it was that moment that was like, you know, still your friends are still your friends, even in that moment, and they're still there for you, and um, they still just want to help, and it was really special. Um, so that was a moment that really did stick out to me. Oh, that I I kept thinking about, yeah.

[33:04] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, that's amazing. You know, getting your own movie made, we we've talked about this a little bit, is such an accomplishment, and it requires, I think, a ton of self belief, especially if you're gonna power through eight years and persevere, which you really do have to persevere in this business, right? I mean, anybody that's gotten anywhere is just hanging on into your life.

[33:24] Max Talisman: That's true. Do you have any advice for listeners on that? Like sort of not getting in your own way or having imposter syndrome?

[33:31] Max Talisman: Well, I mean, I the number one thing I would say is like anytime you get a no, just get back up and keep swinging. Like there's so many people in this industry that you know, someone is going to see your light, someone is going to want to shine on it even more. And so you just gotta like really keep going every time because the easy answer for them is no. Yeah. That's the thing. It's easy for them to say no. It's hard for them to take a risk. But um, if they do, you know, it it's going to be a great situation. So I think just keep going and also hear the difference between a no and a note, right? If someone is saying, like, I can't make this, but here's my opinion on what you should do. Listen, I think, you know, this business is built on people listening to those with experience. So don't feel like you know everything. So my favorite thing about this business is that I'm learning every day. And I will never stop learning. Um, so I that's what I would say.

[34:39] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, I love that advice. You gotta stay curious. Also look at the things you did maybe a decade ago.

[34:45] Max Talisman: Yeah. And when maybe you thought you knew it all, and just take a look at them. Just take a look, take a look and be like, oh, I did it.

[34:52] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. I want to make an infographic now that says no, and then there's a parentheses around the no, because that was I love what you said. No's are just you know part of the process.

[35:04] Max Talisman: Yeah. So yeah, you gotta keep going. And they they can be helpful. Kind of everything's meant to be.

[35:09] Robert Peterpaul: Absolutely.

[35:09] Max Talisman: Oh, yeah, no. Yeah, I get it.

[35:11] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[35:11] Max Talisman: Yeah, that it it lands. It lands eventually.

[35:15] Robert Peterpaul: You know, on a another kindest note, I wonder in these sort of like long times or even just on set, how are you kind to yourself, Max? Like sort of what fills up your cup.

[35:25] Max Talisman: It's I mean, I think laughter fills my cup, to be honest. So just keeping things in a situation where we can laugh on set is important to me. But I am someone where I'm lucky that and maybe this isn't lucky, but I do I do let a lot of things sort of brush off. I don't on a set, I'm not someone who's going to um sweat the small stuff because it's I mean, first off, it's a huge responsibility when I'm doing, and I I owe it to everyone who believed in me and believed in the project, and is there to really not let the small things affect the movie.

[36:04] Max Talisman: Um you don't have time, right? You can't be stopping when you hit every bump. Right. The way I'm kind to myself is knowing that if I'm not sweating the small stuff, it's actually an act of service for myself. It's important.

[36:18] Max Talisman: Yeah, I love that. Well, speaking of maybe like getting caught on a bump and stopping, did you do you get the giggles? Because I feel like the giggles are the best, but they're actually the like kryptonite for a set. You know, so it's funny because like I didn't break a lot at all, especially acting. And you know, when you're acting with these people, like you're all pretty used to, you know, trying like being the character. So it's pretty rare to have someone break on set, but it did happen once, and it was Jackie Cruz. It's my scene with her, and like it's just it's in the bloopers. She's come like she's this energy is coming at me, and I'm like, I just lose it.

[37:01] Max Talisman: I'm like, I'm so fucked. Let's go back. Because it was hard for me to just be like, oh my god, like this is incredible. Like, this is incredible. Um, and then there's other times where you know we let ourselves laugh out of the characters and we're resting, and that's a little different too. But um, I mean, the giggles are special, but I think most of the giggle fits came between takes and not actually um we we didn't lose a lot of uh take time from people breaking.

[37:30] Max Talisman: I know I love that moment when the scene ends and there's like the silence, and you're everyone's just holding it, and then you know, they're like cut, and then everyone just breaks and starts laughing. There's a moment, also it's in the Floopers where Joey is like leaving an apartment and he knocks down something, and as the character reacts, so I kept it going because I thought it was awesome. Oh my gosh. I was wondering if that was yeah. Yeah, and then we cut and everyone loses it because it's hilarious.

[37:57] Max Talisman: Yeah, but um, actually, there's one other moment that didn't make the movie, it's a scene that didn't make the movie where I was with um Margaret Burkowitz, who plays Chloe, who's another very old friend of mine, and we walked into what was like this shop, and she she knocked over a lamp, and then continued to try to act and like put it back together, and she like that's a pro. It's like the lamp shed the lamp head back on and like the lampshade, whatever, and it just falls down like it was shooting and I just was like cut. I like started cra it was too fun. Like I loved it. I love the change. I love stuff like that. Yeah, stuff so good.

[38:37] Max Talisman: Yeah, yeah. That actually literally happened to me on that show I did that Eric Roberts was on, but it was the opposite. I had to open a door, and they had rigged a tiny light on the door, and I opened it, and I think it might have slammed. I don't know what happened, but it wasn't rigged properly, and it actually fell on my head. And it was filmed. And I like kept going with the scene and then I blacked out. It was the funniest thing. And they kept it in the show. Like you can kind of see with the quick cut. Like me like I was like, should have called SAG. No, it's all good. It's all good. Lost half my brain cells. But anyway.

[39:08] Robert Peterpaul: You're fine. I mean, like, listen, you were slightly concussed, but you're all good.

[39:11] Max Talisman: Yeah, I still haven't recovered, but I'm fine. You can't see what's going on below the zoom screen. There's a lot. There's a lot of injuries, Max. A line of me and then nothing.

[39:20] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. I wonder, you know, with things like this, is there someone that you've really looked up to in this industry that's reached out to you and seen it and given you good feedback? Or just in general with your career, have you had like sort of a somebody come to you and had this very surreal moment?

[39:35] Max Talisman: I mean, I've been lucky that I've, you know, been able to be in rooms with people who have been a lot to me and um who have, you know, really uh just made me feel like you know, the work is appreciated. Uh the truth is that it's almost this thing where there's like too many to name.

[39:57] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, that's crazy. I it's every I respect so many people in this industry.

[40:02] Max Talisman: Yeah. Like I really am just like it's a joy to get to be a part of it. So, you know, that's really what it is. It's it's the situation where any time someone takes the time to come up to me and tell them, tell me that this film meant something, i it's it's massive. It really just I I I carry it with me.

[40:23] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. I love that. Yeah. Well, it's a joy to see you shine in Max. Thank you for this film and all you're doing. As we end our time together I would just love if you could share a tangible kindness tip for listeners so something specific you would like people out there to do on their own corner just to make the world a little bit brighter like a candle which I know you love candles too and I when we moved recently I realized I'm an extremely flammable person like all I have are candles and books so this this baby's going down but anyway it's it's kind of candles I'm a big like there's like used to be this thing that was like a young millennials budget and it was on like it was on Twitter and it was like it was like one percent rent one percent food 98% candles oh my gosh that is the way it should be done so what's your favorite candle scent that's my new question.

[40:29] Max Talisman: Yeah yeah we're switching back um I'm a big fall scent person I love like cinnamon like pumpkin like apple like stuff like that that just like cider like really like deep spicy scents clove yeah anything like that like those little cinnamon brooms from Trader Joe's you ever get those little put them in the corners my favorite is the um there's this candle by Capri Blue called uh pumpkin dolce which is so nice um there's also not major thing here but by candier there's um this one pumpkin pies before guys oh so nice and uh I also have this one by a Lume right here which is uh the midnight pumpkin so good do you save the jars ever because that was like a nice little jar okay I know it's cute though, isn't it it?

[42:01] Robert Peterpaul: It's really nice. I just learned a great hack if you're interested. I think as soon as it goes all the way to the bottom and it's all just hot wax left, you put it right in the freezer.

[42:10] Max Talisman: Oh and then you let it freeze, you take it out a couple days later, day after whatever, an hour if you can't wait, and then you just use a knife and it chips right out, and then you just pop that thing in the dishwasher and you could keep the this could be like a little glass, like you serve it on ball.

[42:24] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, a little air plant or something. Cheers to the cute.

[42:28] Max Talisman: That's a great idea.

[42:28] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[42:31] Max Talisman: No, no, or you could also pour boiling hot water into it. And it'll like all come up and then you freeze it and then just pop it out.

[42:38] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, it can't it might not work with everyone, but the ones that it's meant to work with it will.

[42:43] Max Talisman: I love the okay, great.

[42:45] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[42:45] Max Talisman: Um because I got this like margarita candle, and the it was actually supposed to be a margarita glass after, and that was the first time I tried it.

[42:52] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, yeah.

[42:53] Max Talisman: And then I did work it out.

[42:54] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, I have the I've had ones that are like food shapes, you know, or like that kind of thing.

[42:58] Max Talisman: It's like, oh damn, this I oh you also had there's like ones that come in like like a cider mug, you know.

[43:05] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, yeah.

[43:06] Max Talisman: Yeah, so like you should have kept that.

[43:09] Robert Peterpaul: Okay.

[43:10] Max Talisman: Next well, now you know everybody. Thank you. Kindness tip. That's mine.

[43:13] Robert Peterpaul: Literally, thank you. I'm like, save your candles. Change my life. Thank you. You hear that, everybody?

[43:21] Max Talisman: Yeah. No, candles are life-changing, and they just they don't last. So you gotta you gotta find ways to make them last. And that's all, yeah.

[43:28] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, yeah. But anyway, I asked you a a question before that, which is what's your kindness tip? What's something tangible everybody can do out there?

[43:36] Max Talisman: Check in on your people, check in on your friends, like just send them a text being like, Hey, how are you doing? Like, I think I'm someone who my you know, my tribe, my friends, they mean the world to me, and I'm always checking in to make sure, you know, like they're good.

[43:52] Max Talisman: And I think that's one of the reasons why I've been lucky to keep a lot of my core friends through my life. Yeah, um, it's because I make sure we're connected. So I would say if they matter to you, you know, check in, see how they're doing. Sometimes you'll text and they're not having a great day and they need someone to vent to. So you can be that person.

[44:13] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. That's a a testament of somebody, I think. If they have friends from their childhood, if they've been able to keep like some of the friends from their youth.

[44:20] Max Talisman: Absolutely.

[44:23] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[44:24] Max Talisman: It's also like it's tough to make friends as an adult. It's just tough.

[44:27] Robert Peterpaul: It is.

[44:28] Max Talisman: Yeah, especially if you're like unhinged.

[44:30] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, I'm lucky I have my friends. I'm like, I've had them forever.

[44:34] Max Talisman: I know. But yeah, no, it's it's tough. I think I've tried to make friends as an adult. Sometimes it's great.

[44:39] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[44:40] Max Talisman: Sometimes you make a new connection, you're like, wow. This is new friends.

[44:44] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, like everybody's looking at their phones, you know.

[44:47] Max Talisman: It's hard kind of to strike up a conversation these days.

[44:49] Robert Peterpaul: But it's meant to be. It'll be it'll be.

[44:52] Max Talisman: When I was young, I used to love like a new school or like the fur like I was so excited the first day of college because I was like, everyone is coming in on an equal playing field.

[45:02] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[45:03] Max Talisman: Everyone is here to make it a chance to reinvent yourself or like step into yourself if you were scared and high school. But I'm also I'm like, I mean, I'm sure you can tell like an extroverted extrovert. So I'm like, Yeah, new friends, like let's chat. Like everyone is here needs a friend. So let's let's make some.

[45:19] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, we need that connector.

[45:21] Max Talisman: I think that's an act of kindness right there, being the connector.

[45:23] Robert Peterpaul: I think so.

[45:24] Max Talisman: Yeah, absolutely.

[45:25] Robert Peterpaul: I love that.

[45:26] Max Talisman: Yeah.

[45:27] Robert Peterpaul: I had such a lovely time with you. Thank you for being here.

[45:30] Max Talisman: Thank you so much for having me. It's a joy.

[45:32] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, you're a joy. And I will say, I'll just end this baby by saying, How are you doing?

[45:36] Max Talisman: So that was your kindness tip. I'm gonna check in on you.

[45:39] Robert Peterpaul: I'm doing well. I'm I'm doing well. I think you know, I need to sleep for a few days, but like other than that, like I also feel fresh today. It's a it's a Monday, so I'm like, I don't know what happened. Like, I didn't rest this weekend, but I feel like I did.

[45:55] Max Talisman: Stay on there. Otherwise, you'll have to turn the bat symbol off and take a little nap. And that's okay, too.

[46:00] Robert Peterpaul: Give me a let Batman sleep for a moment.

[46:02] Max Talisman: Yeah.

[46:03] Robert Peterpaul: There's the title.

[46:03] Max Talisman: That's the title of the episode.

[46:06] Robert Peterpaul: Literally, yeah.

[46:07] Max Talisman: Thank you so much, Max.

[46:08] Max Talisman: Thank you. It's a joy. Thanks for having me.

[46:09] Robert Peterpaul: Right.

[46:10] Max Talisman: Right. I didn't even get to talk about your name, which by the way, hashtag Halloween Town.

[46:13] Robert Peterpaul: You know, it's so funny.

[46:15] Max Talisman: You mentioned Halloween town. And you can put this in if you want. It's really funny. That's how I explain it to people.

[46:21] Max Talisman: I literally say like the the charm in Halloween Town, the talisman.

[46:25] Robert Peterpaul: Okay, seriously.

[46:27] Max Talisman: From people around our age, because like they they don't a lot of people don't know that talisman does mean a magical good luck charm. But um it's also it's it is like I was born with it. It is my name.

[46:36] Robert Peterpaul: Maybe it's maybe maybe it's a talisman.

[46:39] Max Talisman: Yeah.

[46:39] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, I love him.

[46:40] Max Talisman: I was very lucky that I was bored with it. One of my favorite comments on anything ever was like when I did Super Dark Times, um I there's two of us with cool names.

[46:50] Max Talisman: And so they were like, Max Talisman, Elizabeth Cappuccino. Are these real names or the names of emo bands?

[46:58] Robert Peterpaul: Hell yeah.

[46:59] Max Talisman: That's good. Love that. And you have good initials too. MT, musical theater.

[47:04] Robert Peterpaul: I know.

[47:05] Max Talisman: Yeah.

[47:05] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[47:06] Max Talisman: Born to do it.

[47:08] Robert Peterpaul: Well, I will say, I've got to talk with a lot of great peeps on here, but I think my most starstruck was Kimberly J. Brown, Marnie of Halloween Town.

[47:16] Max Talisman: I think I fully blacked out.

[47:20] Robert Peterpaul: That's childhood. Like that's iconic.

[47:22] Max Talisman: And she looks the same.

[47:23] Robert Peterpaul: I know I used to see her like Yeah.

[47:25] Max Talisman: And she had like her little self-tape thing in the background.

[47:28] Robert Peterpaul: She was gonna do an audition.

[47:32] Max Talisman: And she was talking about doing an audition after. I'm like, you have to audition. Have they not seen Halloween town?

[47:38] Robert Peterpaul: I'm like, hmm. No hope for the rest of us.

[47:41] Max Talisman: Yeah.

[47:41] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, yeah.

[47:42] Max Talisman: Justice for Marnie return to Halloween Town.

[47:45] Robert Peterpaul: Get that trending, everybody.

[47:47] Max Talisman: Justice. Justice Kimberly J. Brown, please.

[47:49] Robert Peterpaul: I know. And she's married to that guy now. Or there's a I love that.

[47:53] Max Talisman: I love that that she's married to Cal Sor. Secretly, I watch it every year, all three of them.

[47:58] Robert Peterpaul: I know.

[47:59] Max Talisman: We need to maybe we should write that reboot.

[48:01] Robert Peterpaul: I don't know why they haven't done anything.

[48:02] Max Talisman: Why haven't why hasn't anyone? She's ready.

[48:04] Robert Peterpaul: She's got the cloak.

[48:09] Max Talisman: That would be cool.

[48:10] Robert Peterpaul: Right?

[48:10] Max Talisman: They could put it right next to like the Winnie the Pooh in the Steamboat Willie Slasher.

[48:14] Robert Peterpaul: There you go.

[48:15] Max Talisman: But like have her in it.

[48:18] Robert Peterpaul: That'd be sick.

[48:18] Max Talisman: That would be sick.

[48:19] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, that's a good that would be a meta.

[48:21] Max Talisman: Good idea.

[48:22] Robert Peterpaul: Or like a one division situation, just mixed tones.

[48:24] Max Talisman: Oh, interesting.

[48:26] Robert Peterpaul: I like that.

[48:26] Max Talisman: Like something creepy.

[48:28] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, AI Debbie Reynolds.

[48:29] Max Talisman: No, don't do that.

[48:30] Robert Peterpaul: Don't do that.

[48:30] Max Talisman: No, no, no, no, no.

[48:31] Robert Peterpaul: No, don't do that.

[48:32] Max Talisman: You could have like you could have Billy Lord as like a young Debbie.

[48:36] Robert Peterpaul: Yes.

[48:37] Max Talisman: Yeah.

[48:37] Robert Peterpaul: And also give like I I know like she's our Marnie, but I think we should give what's her face just like a little part, cameo.

[48:44] Max Talisman: Sarah Paxton?

[48:45] Robert Peterpaul: Sarah Paxton.

[48:47] Max Talisman: Sarah Paxton's a great actress. I love her.

[48:48] Robert Peterpaul: She's great.

[48:49] Max Talisman: She should absolutely be in it.

[48:51] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[48:52] Max Talisman: Yeah, she could be like Marnie from like an alternate dimension.

[48:56] Robert Peterpaul: Like the Sabrina they did.

[48:57] Max Talisman: I don't know if you saw the chilling adventures where they had like some of that.

[49:00] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[49:01] Max Talisman: Multiple.

[49:01] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, it got it got unhinged, but maybe it's a good time.

[49:04] Max Talisman: Yeah.

[49:05] Robert Peterpaul: Why not take a crazy chance?

[49:07] Max Talisman: Until next time, remember, everything is gonna be a okay.