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[0:06] Robert Peterpaul: Hello, beautiful people. Welcome to the Art of Kindness, where we have compassionate conversations with artists from all areas of the entertainment industry who are using their voice to spread joy and make this big spinning planet in the sky a better place to be.

[0:21] Robert Peterpaul: I'm Robert Peterpaul, and I'm so glad you're here.

[0:35] Robert Peterpaul: Well, hello, dear listeners. Welcome back to the Art of Kindness season three! Happy New Year! I hope you've been staying as well as can be. I didn't even mean to rhyme, and yet I do it all the time. Perhaps you noticed already that there's a slight sound quality improvement to the show. And yes, thank you so much for asking. I did get a new microphone for Christmas from my dad. Shout out to Frankie P, thank you. Nope, we're only a couple sentences into season three, and I've already channeled multiple personas. More are coming. Speaking of season three, I don't really know what seasons are in podcasting. Obviously, I know what they are in life. Okay, winter, summer, spring, fall. Obviously, Paul, I love fall.

Yeah, I said them all right. That was four. Anyway, the four seasons is also a great hotel. I think I'm watching White Lotus season two, and it looks majestic. I want to go there, but then I looked it up, and it's extremely expensive per night, so probably not going there. And the four seasons are also a band, right? Sherry! Sherry baby! Oop. First noise complaint of the season, probably coming in now, and I will have to move out of my apartment. What I'm trying to say is, I don't really know what seasons are in podcasting. I don't know if you need to make them, but it just felt like the time was right. It's a new year. We have an incredible, iconic guest to launch the season with. And it just felt fresh and fun, so here we are, third time's the charm, baby!

I missed you all so much while on my little holiday hiatus, and I hope you had the most magical holiday season. I am so happy to be back behind the microphone with you all, whether you're an old friend or a new friend, hey! Welcome to the kindest and weirdest corner in the audio sphere. Starting a new year, but anything new really is wonderfying, which is wonderful and electrifying combined. Ever since interviewing Nina West back in season two, go listen to it if you have not already. I can't stop making up words. Anyway, while there's so much to be admired about a lift off into a new year, there also can be some pressure that pulls us down. Society tells us we should be making all these resolutions, right?

And that we should hit the ground running so we can achieve our goals this year. I know for me as an actor, the holiday seasons end, and then bam, it's pilot season and theater audition season, and you have to be ready to go. I'm like, I'm still eating Christmas cookies in my sweatpants, okay? So wherever you are right now, just know it's enough. Be there and allow yourself to chase your dreams from that place. Don't force yourself to dive into this unattainable version of yourself. Now that we've had my first rant of 2023 and it's in the books, we should dial on in to the reason you are all here. Our very first guest of season three is nothing short of incredible. She is so lovely. I am so honored to have gotten any time to speak with her.

She is the voice of a generation. The one and only Rupi Kaur. I mean, what do you even say about a breakout literary phenomenon? I guess you start at the beginning? Let's start at the very beginning. Rupi Kaur is a Canadian poet, illustrator, photographer, and author. Born in Punjab, India, Kaur emigrated to Canada at a young age with her family. She began performing poetry in 2009 and rose to fame on Instagram, eventually becoming a popular poet through her three collections of poetry. Rupi wrote, illustrated, and self-published her first poetry collection, Milk and Honey. Next came its artistic sibling, The Sun and Her Flowers. These collections have sold more than 10 million copies and have been translated into over 40 languages.

Her latest collection, Homebody, debuted at number one on bestseller lists across the world. As she has done from the very beginning, Rupi self-produced Rupi Kaur Live, the first poetry special of its kind, which debuted on Amazon Prime Video in 2021. Rupi so kindly took the time to speak with me from her global world tour, where she is performing poetry across the US, Canada, Mexico, the UK, Europe, and so many other amazing places. Rupi's work touches on love, loss, trauma, healing, femininity, and migration, among other topics that we can all relate to. We touch on all of this and her latest project, a short film in collaboration with Stacey's Pita Chips, which I'm a huge fan of. Oh, rumbly and my tumbling, I'm hungry.

This film is called Rise and celebrates the resilience of women everywhere. It's debuting at the Sundance Film Festival as we speak. Well, as I speak. Although feel free to talk back, friends, you know, from wherever you are in your walk and your car. Hey, I'm listening. We certainly can speak if you give us a follow too on Instagram at Art of KindnessPod and at Robert Peterpaul, huh? I truly can't believe I'm about to say this. But without further ado, please enjoy my conversation with the remarkable Rupi Kaur.

[6:03] Robert Peterpaul: Hi, Rupi, how are you?

[6:05] Rupi Kaur: I'm good. How are you doing?

[6:07] Robert Peterpaul: I'm great. I am so excited to talk to you.

[6:09] Rupi Kaur: Oh, I'm excited to chat with you as well.

[6:12] Robert Peterpaul: Yay! Well, I love that you're um I can't really see it, but I love that your Zoom picture is pillars because I feel like you're such a pillar in my life in so many people's lives.

[6:20] Rupi Kaur: So kind. That's like it's a picture I read, I took it on my last trip in India. I don't even know why that is my profile picture, and I've never questioned it, but thank you for pointing that out.

[6:31] Robert Peterpaul: It's so beautiful, and uh again, I feel so honored to have this little slice of life with you, and I just want to start up by thanking you for opening your heart and sharing it with all of us because you really allow us all to feel not so alone. I mean, I've been healing through words, Rupi, with you. And uh, your art is truly changing the world, including the latest project. I truly mean that, and I want to get into Rise and talk about how you're continuing to do that now through this short film. But first of all, since this is the Art of Kindness podcast, I would love to know for you, someone who I feel like writes a lot about kindness. What does kindness mean to you?

[7:06] Rupi Kaur: Kindness to me means being patient, seeing people and listening. I think that that's the first thing that comes to mind. I think sometimes we think people are being unkind to us. And they might be, but so much of it is, you know, we're not taking the time to be still and just see and hear people. And so I think that makes a big difference. I know everybody, I think, in this social media world is jumping to comment to have their own statement out there where I think listening has gotten a little bit undervalued.

[7:46] Robert Peterpaul: So I love that you said that because it is what really connects us and allows us to see people as your work does.

[7:52] Rupi Kaur: Absolutely.

[7:53] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, thank you. Thank you. I'm just gonna keep complimenting you for these 20 minutes. So I'm like, this is the best way for me to start my Tuesday. And your smile is so infectious as well. I just wanted to say that.

[8:01] Rupi Kaur: Thank you.

[8:03] Robert Peterpaul: The first thing I noticed when we logged on.

[8:08] Rupi Kaur: Yeah.

[8:08] Robert Peterpaul: Thank you. Well, I'm a I'm beaming to talk with you. I was smiling in a different way while I watched Rise, this powerful new short film that you are a part of with Stacy's Pita Chips, which I'm also a huge fan of. Why what? And in collaboration with so many wonderful talents, the film is, I was gonna say set to your words, but I feel like your words are the composition to this film. It's like a score. I would love to know why did you want to be a part of this project?

[8:35] Rupi Kaur: Yeah, I wanted to be a part of this project because I remember when I first got on a call with Nisha, uh, who is the filmmaker, and I've been such a big fan of Nisha Ganatra's work. And when this opportunity sort of came across my table, you know, I I always feel like because I have to, I bear, I I often don't like I'm not good at commissioned work because so often it's like with a brand or a company or a mission that I might not necessarily align with or it doesn't inspire me. So I remember getting on this call with Nisha, and I remember she starts to talk about the inspiration behind it. She starts to talk about the Stacey's Rise project and how she sat with these three different women and explores their journey about their trials and tribulation and business.

And it felt so it touched my heart. And she kept using this word. She said, these women who have done such incredible work at building their businesses, you know, the word that they kept going back to in all the interviews that I sat down with them for was the word roots. And for me, that was the hook because I've been writing about roots so much in all of like my first three books of poetry. I often touch on roots and roots are constantly something that I'm trying to explore. So once she said that word, and once I realized that, you know, that was a word that was important to Stacey's and a word that these three women in the film were really relating to, I was like, you know, this just feels right, and I think I can do this.

[10:13] Robert Peterpaul: It's so funny that you bring up the feeling of it of being right, but at first you're sort of like, I don't really like to do commissions, and it feels kind of awkward to step into somebody else's concept, because I was wondering that for you, you know, when you sit down to write something for a project like this that's already sort of taking shape. What is your process for sort of tapping into the inkwell of your own mind, if you will, and sort of writing someone else's concept out? Is it just that you really have to relate from the start? Or do you have other ways of kind of like unlocking that for yourself?

[10:44] Rupi Kaur: I think, well, I'm at a place where I think I do have to feel connected to or relate to the subject matter, um, which is why, you know, I do find it difficult to create commissioned work because I have to write about what I feel and what feels honest and right to me. And so if it's yeah, and this just felt that. And I mean, the three women in the film, you know, their stories are so unique to them and it's so personal to them. But there's this idea that I feel like has always run through to me. And it's this quote that says the most personal thing is like the most universal. And so when I was like watching clips in the earlier, you know, sort of um edits of this film, it just it touched my heart and it reminded me so much of my own journey. And that's when I realized, oh, I I can write this. Like it's not gonna be, you know, a big hurdle, like maybe some commissions in the past.

[11:42] Robert Peterpaul: Well, I, you know, that's I love that. And I think now to quote yourself to you, speaking of quotes that are meaningful, I love the line in Rise that I think most hit me was it is our duty to dream, or it's our duty to dream. So many people I feel like don't allow themselves that privilege, or they feel like they can't because of their circumstances. You're such a champion of dreams, I feel like that just kind of comes through your work and your journey and when you do interviews, and even in this book, Healing Through Words, you talk a lot about how being creative is so important and anybody can be creative. What advice do you have to people out there who feel like they can't dream or they don't deserve to take the time to dream?

[12:20] Rupi Kaur: Oof, that's a good question. I, you know, I can only speak, I can share something from my own experience. I feel like when I was younger, a little bit more naive and more innocent. When I was just started, I started performing, you know, about 14 years ago. I was able to dream so much more freely than that line in the poem that you refer to, that is a line that I wrote that, you know, I'm trying to learn now. I mean, 14 years later, I feel like I'm less innocent, less naive, and I've seen, you know, faced a lot more challenges. And so dreaming became more difficult when it came to business and when it came to work. And um, so I know that dreaming can feel really hard as adults because you're faced with responsibilities and you really start to see the world for how complicated it is.

And to go back to Healing Through Words for a minute, I think being creative is where I learned to dream. And we have this idea in the West, especially that you can either be creative or you can be logical, but those two things can't exist in the same space. So when I do a lot of writing workshops, you know, a lot of people will come to them because I know they secretly want to be creative. That's why they signed up and that's why they they're here. But they always, anytime they they say anything, like the first thing they say to me is usually like, well, I'm not really creative. I don't, I can't really do this. And I'm like, oh my god, like you're already you're apologizing for for what? Like who who taught you that you can't be creative?

Because I think that we're all creative by nature, and I think that dreaming plays a big part of that. I think that we all have the ability to dream, and it's like, how do we go back to our childlike selves? How do we go back and connect with our inner voice? That voice that is mystical and that's magical. And I think if we can tap into that energy, that energy is what helps us sustain decade after decade.

[14:29] Robert Peterpaul: Yes, embracing the child in us. I mean, I'm honestly a man child. I'm still a child in a lot of ways, but I think it is so important with these creative journeys and careers. And then, like you said, and something you've been pretty vulnerable about and open about is as success finds you, which certainly you deserve it all. You don't need me to say that, but your schedule gets wilder. You're on tour, and it's really hard to find that balance between your passion, your art, and then also living your life, right?

[14:56] Rupi Kaur: I mean, I'm sure it's okay to not have an answer to it. I don't think anybody does, otherwise we'd be popping that pill. But what have you kind of learned so far about that?

[15:05] Robert Peterpaul: Um, sorry, could you repeat the question just one more time?

[15:08] Rupi Kaur: Oh, yeah, I probably blacked out, Robert. I don't even know if I asked you a question. I think I just I was wondering if you have any advice for, you know, striking that balance between your passion, your art, but then also living your life. So I mean, the passion, the art, the business side, and then also just kind of being and taking time. It's so hard.

[15:26] Rupi Kaur: And I'm gonna be honest, I don't think I'm very good at it. And one thing I'm doing now in interviews is just being honest and being like, I have no idea. And also I'm learning that nobody really has the answers. But one thing that I'm proud of is at least now I'm aware that I'm not balancing it well. Because I think there were a couple of years where I was really neglecting my mental health, really neglecting my personal life and refusing to have fun because my mind was like work, work, work, work, work. But I wasn't even aware that I was doing those things.

[16:00] Rupi Kaur: And so I just turned 30 in October last year.

[16:05] Robert Peterpaul: Happy year.

[16:06] Rupi Kaur: And thank you. Thank you. And it was like a moment where I was like, hold on, I need to pause because something I've been learning to do or trying to learn to do is learn to be more still and more present. And when I hit 30, I asked myself, well, how do I want to spend the next decade of my life? Because I know how I've spent my 20s. And most of it was just, you know, no days off working eight to 12 hours every single day. And that brought many gifts, but it also brought many challenges.

[16:36] Rupi Kaur: And um, I think what I've learned is I've been so busy and preoccupied by trying to make good art that I forgot to live. And the lesson that I've learned from that is that good art will come from living if I can just allow myself to live the way that I used to do when I was, you know, in my early 20s. And so moving into the future, I really hope to take some time to rediscover what's fun for me, learning to play, and then hopefully that's what's gonna inspire art versus a contractual deadline.

[17:15] Robert Peterpaul: Well, I hope that for you too. And I think it's kind of interesting if it's any consolation that this paradox of you writing such poignant and beautiful work and putting out things now like healing through words that allow all of us to be still, and yet you're running around promoting it and doing all these things.

[17:30] Rupi Kaur: I know. It's such a paradox. I know it's the irony is not lost in me, but uh I thank you for it. And I would love to know too, you know, speaking of dreaming and getting kind of back to Rise with these wonderful three business women who are making their dreams a reality and showing us that reality can be whatever you want it to be. Whatever your dreams are, I just again it can be so hard to follow them and just be persistent and keep going. How do you personally stay motivated and find strength on the days where it is just so tough?

[18:02] Rupi Kaur: Yeah. Oh my God. I know, I know, I know. There's this poem listening to these women's stories. I could totally, I could totally feel the pain as well as their joy. But one thing that really inspired me was the pain of continuing to wake up every day and trying, even when it feels so hard. And so the first line of the poem is that I narrate is there are days when I wonder if I should stop dreaming so big, because the world sort of, especially when you're a woman, you know, it tells you, okay, maybe now you can dream this much, but don't be crazy, you know. Don't think that you can do it all.

[18:47] Rupi Kaur: And um, I think that is something when I heard that these women also feel the same way, it was sort of an exhale for me. And um I realized that, you know, the climb doesn't get easier, in fact, it can get more difficult, and it just goes back to the fact that if we're gonna rise, we have to rise together.

[19:16] Robert Peterpaul: I love that. I mean, as you're rising, you really are lifting all of us up with you because again, your work is touching us and reaching us, and I mean, uh, I could open up this book right now, and there's just so many things in here that I wasn't even was writing this morning about my family and my own trauma and pain. And, you know, I can't thank you enough for that. But with all of that and with your tour, I can't even imagine how many people are coming up to you and DMing you and telling you how you've helped them. And while that's so beautiful, I know that kind of takes a toll as an empath. So I would love to know how you're kind of kind to yourself and how you take moments to recharge.

[19:52] Rupi Kaur: Totally. I I think it used to be more difficult for me in earlier years to accept all the beautiful, lovely compliments. Uh, I think because I was more like, I don't deserve it. I was feeling I was so insecure. There were so many things. Um, and then I think post-COVID, it's actually been really nice to get back out in the world because I am, you know, so much less anxious, so much less depressed. So I can actually be still here and listen to people. And it's been really, really touching and actually has reconnected me with my purpose.

[20:28] Rupi Kaur: Um, but I think what's helped me continue to sort of stay present with them throughout the last eight months that I've been on the road is taking that time out for myself every single morning. I know how I need to start my day. And what I do is I'll be in a new city every other day. But I wake up, I grab my journal, I grab a book, I grab my favorite pink pen, I head to a local coffee shop and spend an hour with myself. And like that's my self-care blueprint. And no matter where I am in the world, I think we all need sort of a blueprint of what works for us, what sustains us, what those rituals are, and use those as our North Star.

[21:07] Robert Peterpaul: That's so amazing. I would love to know for you again, since we're kind of talking about kindness today through the lens of your beautiful career. Do you have any tangible kindness or wellness tips that listeners could take with them and incorporate into their day?

[21:22] Rupi Kaur: I mean, what you just said, creating a blueprint was so beautiful. But if you have anything that you think could make the world a kinder place, just by one person doing it, you know, and then we all collectively rise, I guess for lack of a better word.

[21:35] Rupi Kaur: I think two things come to mind. One is giving people the benefit of the doubt. I think we all have, you know, we have our truth, but the person that, you know, is on the other end has their own truth, and then there is the truth somewhere in the middle. And, you know, we all walk through life with such different perceptions. And so really giving people the benefit of the doubt. And you sometimes often realize that, you know, their intentions were maybe not as bad as you think, or not bad at all. They're just reacting in a way that felt right for them according to their experiences.

[22:14] Rupi Kaur: That definitely is something that I've been sort of trying to lead with. And I've realized that, oh, wait, that person is being kind to me. What am I talking about? Um I think, yeah, giving people the benefit of the doubt and sort of getting closer. I feel like it's, you know, you see it on social media. It's really easy to hate people behind the keyboard. But when we get into the same room and we sort of, you know, lean in closer to each other, it's really hard to hate people close up because you see them as human and you are open to hearing their stories.

[22:49] Robert Peterpaul: That just gave me the chills. I'm so glad you said that. I think just hearing you say that is super important because again, the world is a paradox from a young age, we're taught don't talk to strangers. We're kind of given the perspective that people are maybe not good. And we have to unlearn that as we get older in some ways because you know there's certain yes certainly a lot of validity to the other absolutely absolutely and then I guess it goes back to like listening to your gut because you're right there are as we know from the last couple of years there are certainly people that we would say are not good. But learning to listen to that gut and sort of like again you do you always say it's so well leading with kindness.

[23:30] Rupi Kaur: Oh well I know we have to wrap up and I can ask you a million more questions but I would just love if we could end our little time together by you sharing maybe an act of kindness or something you experienced recently that kind of touched your heart. I mean it could be something as you were rising again to use the word rise everybody take a shot or smile at someone on the street if you want to do something kind. As I keep saying rise you know something that comes to mind about it could be the simplest thing.

[23:57] Rupi Kaur: I I don't I don't know if this is something this is something that always makes me feel good. Whenever I'm in a drive thru I grew up in Toronto so it's really cold there. And so we do drive throughs a lot and um always paying for not always but when I feel like I'm in the mood you know I will pay for the people behind me. And it's like a nice surprise I never know how they're gonna react or you know you never actually meet these people but um it's like a little way to pass something forward.

[24:30] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, well, you're you're doing that so much again. I'm just going to keep complimenting you until they kick me out of the Zoom room. But I just saw you give away your book on tour and you made these little girls smile.

[24:39] Rupi Kaur: Oh, it's the best. It truly is like when you're kind and you give, I mean, nothing feels more fulfilling. I know that sounds so corny, but it's corny for a reason. It's very cliche for a reason because it's just like universally, I think rings true. It just feels so good. And that's why it's so wild when people aren't kind because it comes back to you. So I think we just gotta keep putting it out there and getting it back. And I hope you get nothing but love back because I admire so much what you're doing. I'm so thankful that we live in a world where we have you as a role model. And I just wish you all my love and pita chips.

[25:12] Rupi Kaur: Oh my gosh. Thank you, Robert. You're amazing. Thank you for being my hype man.

[25:17] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, anytime, honestly, any.

[25:25] Robert Peterpaul: And now it's time for your kindness tip of the week.

[25:34] Robert Peterpaul: Ah, what an incredible person. Thank you, Rupi. You can find out more about her and her amazing new short film Rise in the show notes. Now we're going to get into our very first kindness tip of 2023. Woo!

[25:50] Robert Peterpaul: In an effort to make my newsfeed a more positive place, I was inspired by my beautiful wife Cassie, who inspires me to do many things to follow more positive people. And so I followed people like Jay Shetty, who has his own amazing podcast called On Purpose. I really look up to him. And in him, I found that positivity. I was looking for almost right away. A recent post on his page inspired this kindness tip.

[26:17] Robert Peterpaul: I would love for all of you to find a notebook. It can be any old notebook, it can be tattered, it can be leather, it can be plastic, although you know you should recycle that after. It just has to have some open pages. And in it, I want you to start writing down something someone did for you that was kind, or something kind you did. That's right, shout yourself out for someone else. Write this down every single day, ideally. Then at the end of the year, you can look back and see all of the kindness in your life. You will have tangible proof that there is good in the world and there is so much love in your life.

[26:57] Robert Peterpaul: I'm using a personalized planner that Cassie made for me. It's so cool. It's got a picture of our kittens on the back and our wedding photo on the front. It is amazing. A planner's nice too because then you can literally see the dates it happened. And maybe then a year later, you could do the same act of kindness that someone did for you for someone else, and it'll be a full circle kindness moment. I recommend writing these down either in the morning with your cup of ambition, your cup of coffee, to start your day off on a positive note, or write them down while you're snuggled up in bed and about to drift off to dreamland.

[27:33] Robert Peterpaul: Some of you may have seen I did share a video encouraging everyone to do this on Instagram at the start of the year. It's definitely not too late to start, and I would love to see if you do it and you want to take a picture of your acts of kindness, or if you want to email them to us at artofkindnesspodcast@gmail.com. It would be so special just to read those and fill me with joy. So let's connect.

[27:56] Robert Peterpaul: One goal for me this year is to come into the new year with gratitude and thank everyone who has taken the time to listen to this show and to leave us reviews. Those are so appreciated. We also have had some people treat us to a cup of coffee. Literally, I always forget to tell you all, but there is a wonderful site where you can support creators called Buy Me a Coffee. And we're on it. To my surprise, three donations recently popped up on there, and I clicked on the site. I was so thrilled, and lo and behold, two were from my mom and my dad.

[28:31] Robert Peterpaul: Which is still really kind. And then there was another one from my sweet cousin Emily. We've also had donations from listeners Tyler, Pam, Bryce, and many more. So thank you all. It is so not necessary to donate, but it really is appreciated because while this is an act of love for me to do, while this is a passion project, it does take a lot of time and money, and I really, really appreciate your support.com slash the AOK if you would like to support our show.

[29:03] Robert Peterpaul: Speaking of our show, we're back, baby season three, third times the charm. It's gonna be such a wonderful, wonderful season filled with so many amazing interviews. I hope you will stay tuned and stay kind. Please remember, everything is going to be a okay.