Betty Who

Mm -hmm. I'm Betty Who and you are listening to the Art of Kindness.

Robert Peterpaul

Nailed it, one and done. I did. That was really good. I was like, she should do honestly like voiceover narrations.

Betty Who

I put my host voice on, did you hear that? That was really, that was a clean tone.

Host intro...

Betty Who (00:13.217)

I love it. And I already I got my mic set up and everything. I feel like such a professional lady today. I can't believe it. Shut up.

Robert Peterpaul (00:21.557)

You are, you look professional. Look at you with all that behind you. We both have the headphones in and then we're like, how can I make my hair not look like a ratchet, bril brush? But it probably will.

Betty Who (00:29.899)

look silly. I know that's what I said. I literally looked at my husband. I was like, my hair is going to look so dumb with these stupid headphones on. So at least you've acknowledged it now. You know what I mean?

Robert Peterpaul (00:35.724)

You're rocking it. You're rocking it. It's so good to meet you. I'm such a big fan.

Betty Who (00:42.445)

Hi Robert, how you doing?

Robert Peterpaul (00:44.319)

I'm doing, I'm doing well. I'm in this little recording booth today versus being at home, which feels special. And I'm excited to talk to you. Betty, how are you doing?

Betty Who (00:49.913)

Sure, you are special. I'm good. You know, Monday, Monday morning, we're doing this. First thing, this feels like a nice way to start off my week, to be honest.

Robert Peterpaul (00:58.539)

Yeah, we are doing this.

Robert Peterpaul (01:03.499)

I'm glad. And honestly, I won't make you sit here while I record a long, really complimentary bio about you. I am gonna compliment you a million times throughout this interview because that's just what's gonna happen. But I'll do that later on so we can just kinda go into the chat. A lot of people are waiting for me to start talking about them and I'm not gonna do that because I feel like I would feel awkward if I was the guest. Unless you want it, in that case. Well, Betty, no, I can say, what I do admire about you is

Betty Who (01:08.719)

Okay. Okay. Great. Great.

Betty Who (01:21.519)

Okay, sure thing. I love that. Tell me how amazing I am to my face. No, no, no, I'm okay, thank you.

Robert Peterpaul (01:33.621)

I just feel like, besides your art obviously being so fun, it has a purpose, which is just to have fun. But underneath that fun vibe, I feel like you create such an inclusive environment for people and it's really uniting and we need a hell of a lot more of that in this world. So I just want to start off by thanking you for doing that. I can't.

Betty Who (01:48.909)

Yeah. thank you. Shut up. Cut it out. Stop it. Yeah, of course. Please. I, you know, it's funny you say that because I think that's something that's always on my mind. It's like, what is the purpose of the stuff that we all do, you know, creating art? And I think that I'm always in like an ever changing, having a different experience all the time of like why I want to do it or or what speaks to me or what makes me feel like, this is the reason. this is why we do it. And so I think, yeah, exactly.

Robert Peterpaul (02:10.614)

Hmm.

Robert Peterpaul (02:16.138)

This is why we do it.

Betty Who (02:18.72)

So the purposefulness of it is very important to me and it's always ever changing. So I'm glad that at least it feels like something to you.

Robert Peterpaul (02:23.136)

Mm.

Robert Peterpaul (02:26.741)

Yeah, well I do think, and sometimes it feels weird to say that kind of stuff because I do think in some sense you don't want to overthink it. I know for me as an actor, especially with auditions, you could start to spiral if you overanalyze. can be analysis paralysis. So I'm glad that you kind of have that balance of, you know, just fun but then under it all there is that mission there. Now that I've kind of complimented you a bunch already, the first question I always like to ask is how are you at accepting compliments?

Betty Who (02:33.88)

Totally. my God. Yeah.

Betty Who (02:46.956)

Yeah. Yeah, sure.

Betty Who (02:54.829)

Hmm, you know, I feel like I actually am okay, which is probably not like the coolest answer. I probably should be like, no, it's so hard for me to hear. No, I think I, since I was a kid, I tried to be very, in Australia growing up, there's this thing called tall poppy syndrome, which is the tallest poppy is the first to get cut down. And it's very like British. I feel like a lot of Commonwealth countries that kind of maybe experienced the same thing where it's like.

Robert Peterpaul (03:03.743)

Hahaha

Robert Peterpaul (03:13.794)

Mmm.

Betty Who (03:21.305)

I remember having a very specific experience of wanting to audition for the choir solo and a girl was like, are you gonna audition? And I was like, yeah, I think so. And she was like, so you think you're the best singer? You know, it's it's like Regina George, like, so you think you're really pretty. And I feel like that is kind of, it trains you into being like, no, me, what? And so I didn't love how that felt. And so I think even from a young age, I've been someone who really likes to be like, thank you so much. Like, I really appreciate you saying that.

Robert Peterpaul (03:31.99)

Hmm

Yeah.

Betty Who (03:50.285)

especially when it's a compliment that makes me feel very seen or like something that I wish more people would tell me that I was doing right. know, it's like we are all just out here trying and for someone to be like, I see you, whether it's like, hey, I love your energy or whether it's like, my God, you wrote this song and it means something to me. You know, I love being seen by fellow humans and then trying to see them back. I actually, love to give compliments. That's like, especially at meet and greet when I meet somebody, I like to pick the thing that the first thing I see about you that I love, I'm gonna tell you to your face.

Robert Peterpaul (03:50.54)

Hmm.

Robert Peterpaul (03:58.625)

Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (04:07.083)

Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (04:12.646)

Mmm. Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (04:19.106)

It's so fun, too, because it does change the energy no matter what it is. Even if you're in the checkout line at Trader Joe's and you're just like, I love the pin on your shirt, you know, you can see people light up. And that's kind of a fun superpower, I personally think.

Betty Who (04:24.664)

Totally. Yeah.

Yeah, I saw a video online the other day of someone being like, this is my husband talking, this is a compilation video of my husband talking to everybody, you know, and it's like everywhere they go, he just like makes a friend and starts chatting to them. And I feel like that is a little bit me where I'm just like having a great conversation with the Ralph's, know, checkout gal. I'm like, how's your day? You know, and she's like, wow, thanks for asking. And I'm like, yeah, you know. Yeah. Can you shut up? Yeah. Totally.

Robert Peterpaul (04:39.677)

Yeah. Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (04:45.003)

Yeah. Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yeah, retweet. Everyone in line behind me is like, I'm actually trying to go somewhere, and I'm like, so what do you think about the news? And they're like, what's going on? Yeah, I totally get that. And I think it's great that you touched on giving compliments too, because I do think accepting them is also giving, because it's kind of about the other person, right? Like, especially for you, it means so much for a fan to come up to you and say X, Y, and Z to you.

Betty Who (05:07.51)

Absolutely.

Robert Peterpaul (05:12.907)

And if you're kind of like, know, then it just, it's also fine. They're still going to love you, but it makes the moment weird.

Betty Who (05:14.742)

Yeah.

Totally, you know, and they say never make your heroes. You know what I mean? They like never, that is weird. And some people are like, you know, I've had my own experiences of going up to someone who like makes art that I think is amazing. And I'm like, that really spoke to me. And they're like, whoa, like, what are you a fan? Like, what are you weird? You know, it's like, and it's not comfortable for everybody. And I try not to take it personal if that ever happens, but I am as sort of my default setting. If I think something's sick, especially like as if I'm a...

Robert Peterpaul (05:21.281)

Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (05:28.48)

Hmm.

Robert Peterpaul (05:33.044)

Yeah!

Robert Peterpaul (05:38.347)

Mm.

Betty Who (05:45.591)

like a fan of your music or something like that, or there's a song that I love. You know, because it's funny too, especially in art, and I'm not sure how you feel about this. I'm sure you have your own experience with this where we do stuff that sometimes it's hard for us to watch back. Like I have a really hard time watching myself act. That's like so it feels so good. And then you watch it and you're like, yuck, yuck. I don't want to see it. I'm so stressed. And so there's yeah, please someone help me. You know, so I think there's I think there's always like

Robert Peterpaul (05:49.728)

Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (05:59.839)

Yeah. yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (06:06.007)

huh. My eyebrows are stuck in my hair.

Betty Who (06:14.319)

there are things that we do that people love and in us we're like, I hated that thing or like, I feel insecure about my performance in that thing. And now you're telling me that you love it, which like should make me feel better, but actually it's just like reigniting my insecurity about that project. So, you know, you have to hold space for people to be like, me to be like, my God, you were in a boy band in 2004 and I loved that boy band. And someone's like, please don't bring that up. I'm so stressed. Do you know what I mean? Like I'm immediately triggered. So there was always room for people to have their own experience, but I'm just trying to spread the love, you know?

Robert Peterpaul (06:23.414)

Hmm.

Robert Peterpaul (06:28.053)

Hmm.

Robert Peterpaul (06:34.59)

How did you know? Yeah, yeah, Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (06:44.065)

I love that. And we're also, not good judges of ourselves. So I think it's, it's. But you know, before we get into all this, cause I do have a lot of questions about, about sort of under the umbrella of kindness. I think this all exists as a little raindrops. If we want to continue that stupid metaphor, I would love to know to kind of set the stage. What is your definition of kindness, Betty? And how do you think it's changed over the years?

Betty Who (06:47.145)

tell me about it sister, you know.

Mm.

Betty Who (07:11.855)

I think my, maybe this is like just because we were just talking about it, but the first thing that comes to mind is sharing, know, it's like, whether it's you share the nice thing that you thought about them or, you know, hey, I have more of this, do you want it? Like literal sharing. I think that that is warmth to me is like trying to make people feel comfortable in an uncomfortable situation, especially like post COVID. It's like weird to be a human right now.

Robert Peterpaul (07:28.512)

Mmm.

Robert Peterpaul (07:40.662)

Yeah.

Betty Who (07:40.715)

phones and then we see each other on the street and we're like, whoa, how, what is social interaction? How do I do this? And so I think, yeah, so I think my definition of kindness, especially given how it's changed, how like our sort of social experience has really changed in the last decade alone, let alone, you know, the two, three decades ago, like it was a totally different planet and a totally different experience we were all having. So I think

Robert Peterpaul (07:46.091)

Haha, does not compute.

Robert Peterpaul (07:56.959)

Mm.

Robert Peterpaul (08:03.35)

Mmm.

Betty Who (08:06.573)

That's probably my definition of it is just trying to create warmth around people so that they feel like they can, whether it's like be themselves more or let their God down a little bit. Yeah, I think that's something that I feel really natural at and that I try to bring to all of my social interactions.

Robert Peterpaul (08:25.663)

Mmm, that's so beautiful and not to undercut it. But if you hear like weird squeaking noises, it's because I'm slipping on the rubber chair It's not because I'm just like letting loose because I'm so excited, which it also might be honestly, but either way. We're having a good time You're not here. You don't have to be around that I think what's really cool about someone in your position and pop stars and people that sort of have this international reach is that you kind of get to have many different experiences with kindness So I wonder for you, you know growing up I think in Sydney in Australia

Betty Who (08:31.725)

I'm dead. Either way.

Robert Peterpaul (08:54.209)

and then coming to study, I think you came to study the cello, which is an impressive flex here in America. I think that's, I played the cello, it's like High School Musical, that line.

Betty Who (08:57.26)

I did, yes. Yeah, thank you.

Betty Who (09:03.473)

my God, yeah, that was very, I felt very seen by that particular piece of art in my childhood. You were, I play the cello. my God, and then I actually play the cello. Wow, look at us. Look at us. Yeah. Okay, and let's wrap it up.

Robert Peterpaul (09:09.44)

Did you? That was my role in high school, Ripper. I played the cello. Yeah, I was, played the cello. Yeah, and look at that. All right, thanks for coming. It was so good to talk to you. Yeah, and that's the art of kindness. No, so I just wonder like your thoughts on experiencing kindness in Australia and now seeing sort of different parts of the world. Do you feel like there's differences in the way people show kindness to each other and just the way these communities exist? I just wonder what you've experienced like that.

Betty Who (09:36.659)

yeah, absolutely. mean that's, I think that also goes back to like the tall poppy thing. I think in Australia it's like, this is something I learned moving to America, is if I'm, also can I swear? I don't want to, is, okay, I can, no, okay. Because I was gonna say if I'm giving you shit, it's because I like you. Like if I'm taking the piss as we say in Australia. So if I'm making fun of you, it's really because I'm.

Robert Peterpaul (09:42.048)

Mmm.

Robert Peterpaul (09:48.756)

Let it go. Yep.

Robert Peterpaul (09:53.312)

Mm.

Betty Who (09:59.137)

I'm trying to bond with you. It's not because I'm trying to be a bully. And that was something that like I had to learn socially. It was a little different in America because that is very, especially in my family. Like if we're, if we're giving you shit, it's because we like you. And if we're being really nice to you, it's because we're uncomfortable. So I think that that's like a kind of, yeah, like a social.

Robert Peterpaul (10:02.27)

Mmm.

Robert Peterpaul (10:06.71)

behind.

Robert Peterpaul (10:16.075)

Okay. Noted.

Betty Who (10:21.251)

construct that's sort of a little bit different here that I I tried to I had to Re -evaluate my choices and how I was making people feel when I was like, no, I'm not making fun of you I'm trying to be your friend and it's like we were having a misunderstanding. I'm sorry So that is definitely very different from my childhood to being here. Yeah

Robert Peterpaul (10:23.692)

Hmm.

Robert Peterpaul (10:32.16)

Yeah.

Mmm.

That's interesting. Yeah, that's almost like a sibling dynamic. And that's something I think, it's true in my family, maybe not out in the streets here in America, but in my family, know, and something we have in common. We're almost the same age, I think. And so we're 90s babies. I remember, 90s babies, and I remember going to, I think it was like Scotty's or some older record store and getting like the Britney Spears one more time cassette tape. And I know Britney's sort of like a big, I hate the word icon, legend for you. And so,

Betty Who (10:41.676)

Yeah.

Betty Who (10:45.186)

Yeah.

Betty Who (10:50.339)

Yeah, 90s babies.

Betty Who (10:59.765)

Mm -hmm. yeah, huge. Yep, yep.

Robert Peterpaul (11:06.346)

Yeah, okay, well, what's your, I guess what's your favorite Britney Spears song? Maybe I'm dancing around that.

Betty Who (11:09.891)

Whoa, whoa, okay, okay, okay. My first instinct because this is, it's a deep cut and it's one of my favorite deep cuts because I think Britney, self -titled, the Slave record, is probably my most seminal Britney record because it was just all of the things that were the height of her kind of succeeding and being kind of in her prime.

Robert Peterpaul (11:11.848)

In the moment, you reserve the right to change your mind. Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (11:22.165)

Hmm

Robert Peterpaul (11:33.835)

Yeah.

Betty Who (11:35.919)

was this album, this Slave for You album. Overprotected is like top three, if not number one, but on that record, there is a deep cut called What It's Like to Be Me. And it's like my favorite, it's my go -to all the time favorite Britney Spears song. I think it's like track 13. And it's the best, it's my favorite one. So I've got lots, I've got lots and lots of different eras. I really appreciate her in all of her different forms.

Robert Peterpaul (11:40.973)

Mmm. yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (11:46.101)

Mmm.

Robert Peterpaul (11:54.102)

Yeah.

I love that. Yeah.

Betty Who (12:02.551)

I love the knife dancing, I'm here for it. know that people have a lot of different, I'm just like, have, there are some people that I've just decided to stan. Do you know what I mean? I'm like, hey, today is the day that I make the choice that no matter what, I'm here for this lady and she's gonna post her crazy little dancing online and I'm gonna go, yes. I wish that her comments weren't turned off so I could support her. I understand why they are because that's not how everybody feels, but I'm constantly reaching for that comment button to be like, yes, queen go off.

Robert Peterpaul (12:10.717)

Mmm, yes.

Robert Peterpaul (12:14.677)

Ride or

Robert Peterpaul (12:25.366)

Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (12:32.021)

Yeah. No, I would watch that live. Like, I would pay to watch those dances live with different props. Seriously, invite me in. Okay.

Betty Who (12:32.259)

Do know what I mean? Big, big money. Yeah, I mean, we basically did in Vegas. You know what I mean? It was like, that's basically what it was. So I never saw her live until I saw her in Vegas. And I definitely could tell that she was like, it wasn't, there was some things that were at odds for sure in the performance, which is I think that she really didn't wanna be there and she was being forced to be there, but she still gave one hell of a show and like.

Robert Peterpaul (12:48.757)

Mmm.

Robert Peterpaul (12:56.139)

Yeah.

Betty Who (12:59.523)

There's nothing like looking around and seeing every other 90s baby in the room scream singing to oops, I did it again. I was just like, like hit song, power of a hit song. And Britney Spears has so many of them. just, I ride for her till the end of time. Doesn't matter. I'm, you know, as long, if she needs help, I'm here. If she wants to crash on a, crash in a guest bed, get away from everybody. That's how I feel. When I watch the documentaries, I'm like, I want to be her, I want to take care of her. I really, my.

Robert Peterpaul (13:06.443)

Yeah.

Seriously, she does.

Robert Peterpaul (13:18.112)

Mm.

Robert Peterpaul (13:22.526)

You can twirl

Betty Who (13:26.957)

my maternal instincts really kick into overdrive. And I'm like, come here, I've got a nice warm bed for you, sis. We can take care of you. I'll make you like virgin pina coladas, whatever you need, you know?

Robert Peterpaul (13:33.587)

I know.

She has such a beautiful heart that shines through. Maybe because we grew up with her and we saw the crossroads of the movie. I think the only time I saw her live was the Oops I Did It Again concert, which was crazy. I just remember her big bed and she was on it and they were spinning her and the sets were wild. That was a fun time. But I also, Lucky, I forgot Lucky's such a bop, I rediscovered that the other day. It's so.

Betty Who (13:41.186)

Mm.

Betty Who (13:45.072)

I'm so jealous.

Betty Who (13:51.439)

my god. my god, iconic.

Betty Who (13:56.687)

Lucky, see Lucky hits so, and like now looking back at that song and thinking about what it means and watching her at like what, 17 years old singing, she's so lucky she's a star, but she cries in her lonely heart. I'm like, fuck, that is art, man, that is transformative. Like, yeah. Really iconic.

Robert Peterpaul (14:05.046)

Yep. Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (14:14.816)

Yeah.

Yeah, if there's nothing missing in my life, then why do these tears come at night? I bring up Britney too, because I did just want to vibe about Britney for a second, but I wonder, were Britney and sort of those influences of pop, what kind of fostered your love for the arts early on?

Betty Who (14:32.473)

Yeah, absolutely. know, it's Britney was my first tape that I had same oops. No, it wasn't oops. It was baby one more time. Yep. The B side. Yep. The B side of the tape was sometimes which also I ride for that song. Can't tell you can't tell you how much I love that song. man. So, you know, she was very influential as culturally, of course, because everybody was just like obsessed with her, but me included me especially. And I think that

Robert Peterpaul (14:38.686)

Yeah. Baby one more time. Yep. I'm still like turning the back of it to get the...

Robert Peterpaul (14:48.508)

Yeah. Well, you can try.

Robert Peterpaul (14:58.742)

Hmm.

Betty Who (15:01.647)

growing up in the 90s and 2000s, there was so much, so many like beautiful, small women, you know what I mean? It was like that culture of pop music where everybody was like, you know, 110 pounds. And if they gained four pounds, every tabloid in the world was like, she's pregnant or fat. You know what mean? Like the cultural time that we grew up in, seeing these pop stars sort of like be put under the microscope and have their

Robert Peterpaul (15:17.248)

Hmm

Robert Peterpaul (15:23.231)

Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (15:27.764)

Yeah.

Betty Who (15:31.533)

like livelihoods taken from them in so many ways and we really did not treat them very well. We haven't really learned our lessons seemingly, maybe it's only gotten worse, but you know, I think I learned a lot about growing up and watching art, like I was studying classical music so much and I could feel that that world aside from like sort of the misery of it that like so many of those pop stars had to experience, the colorfulness of it, the...

Robert Peterpaul (15:37.814)

Hmm Yeah

Robert Peterpaul (15:53.27)

Mmm.

Yeah.

Betty Who (15:59.211)

like the pop, the structure of like excellent pop music really spoke to me as a kid when I was like with all these other classical musical kids who especially like at classical music school, you know, like studying, playing cello eight hours a day and being like, my God, the new Katy Perry song came out and everyone was like, why do you care? And I was like, you care too. And I won't hear another word about it. You know what I mean? You're lying to yourself if you tell me that you don't love this song. And so that was

Robert Peterpaul (16:03.478)

Mmm.

Robert Peterpaul (16:13.857)

Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (16:18.356)

I don't care to.

Yeah!

Betty Who (16:25.365)

something for me that I felt really passionate about leaving high school and leaving this like very structured classical world that I really wanted to explore the other side of it and kind of the irreverence of it you know it's like it's fun it's big it's dumb sometimes but maybe then because it's dumb everybody can enjoy it and then you actually like change hearts and minds somehow quietly like cedar is something that I also think is so beautiful at that it's like

Robert Peterpaul (16:32.916)

Mm.

Robert Peterpaul (16:51.733)

Yeah.

Betty Who (16:52.365)

You can be telling one story the whole time and bring in all these people from all over the world to come see your shows on Broadway. And at the end, there can be three lines of dialogue that all of a sudden, like bring a tear to your eye that just like teach you something about being a human and accepting each other for who you are. And you're like, wow, that's the transformative power of art. And I think that pop music has such an ability to speak to so many people, your reach is so wide and so.

Robert Peterpaul (17:05.036)

Mm

Robert Peterpaul (17:12.331)

Yeah.

Betty Who (17:20.621)

there's a way to sort of, I guess, trick people into feeling something they didn't expect to. When they come in and they go, expect nothing and leave with something. And I think it's harder to give people something when they expect a lot. If they come in and they go, I expect to be changed, then you're like, God, no, like how do I achieve that? Yeah, totally, totally. So I think this sort of.

Robert Peterpaul (17:27.498)

Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (17:32.609)

Mm.

Robert Peterpaul (17:37.847)

Yeah, that's true. Mmm. There's another shirt over there if you want to put on a different shirt, but I don't know if I can change it. Yeah.

Betty Who (17:49.869)

the sneaky ability of pop music, especially, maybe more than any other art form on the planet to make you feel something. know, whether it's like, I've got a feeling that tonight's gonna be a good night and it's playing on the dance floor and you go like, my God, I have a memory of being in college at this bar in Boston with all of my friends singing that song. It's like.

Robert Peterpaul (18:02.367)

one of my favorites, yeah.

Betty Who (18:12.279)

It's not meant to, you're not meant to listen to the Black Eyed Peas, I've got a feeling that tonight's gonna be a good light and be like, my God, we are the world, we are the children, I've been changed. It's like, no, but then you are brought back to that time and it makes you feel warm and it is, know, music is the only art that we get to experience while we're doing other things. You you go watch a movie and you sit in the movie theater and you're watching the movie. If you go to an art gallery, you're like walking through and you're looking at the art and music is on in the car, it's on in the grocery store, you know, it surrounds us in all these,

Robert Peterpaul (18:19.294)

Yeah

Robert Peterpaul (18:29.851)

Mmm.

Robert Peterpaul (18:40.876)

Yeah.

Betty Who (18:42.631)

like tertiary ways where we're like then, this song reminds me of this thing. And it'll pop up in the most unexpected place because music is everywhere. Again, that sort of sneaky quality of it. I really love that.

Robert Peterpaul (18:47.638)

Mmm.

Robert Peterpaul (18:53.183)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, like in the leaves rustling in the trees, all this stuff. And I really just appreciate the way you talk about pop music because I think it is dissected in such an interesting way. And we don't really hear people talking about pop music like that enough in my opinion. But I think sort of what you're getting at too is, I mean, look at Bridgerton. It's like, you know, this show everybody loves on a massive level. But the way the...

Betty Who (19:06.616)

Yeah.

Betty Who (19:10.495)

Ugh, the way? Thank you for bringing up Bridgerton. I've been waiting for all morning for you to bring up Bridgerton. I'm obsessed, Nicola. I love that, actually. Me too, yeah. Same, cool.

Robert Peterpaul (19:16.061)

you are welcome. You can't see what I'm wearing from here down, but it's a petticoat. Yeah, Nicola. well, I mean, just such a good show, but the way the pop music is applied in this, classical fashion, I think speaks to sort of what you were saying, which is that it can capture, really any emotion and be so malleable and attached to a memory. And now we're seeing these songs in a different light, which I think is so, you know, phenomenal. And we don't have...

Betty Who (19:41.347)

I really, when I hear that music in that show, I actually feel like it was meant for me. You know what I mean? Like the pop music girl who grew up in the classical world, when I hear like the classical version of Taylor Swift, I'm like, wow, is this for me and me alone? Did you create this just to satisfy some strange urge that I have had my whole life? I love, I listen to a lot of classical and jazz just because I am always trying to, I think it makes me feel like,

Robert Peterpaul (19:54.048)

Mm -hmm.

Robert Peterpaul (19:57.81)

Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (20:03.115)

Yeah.

Betty Who (20:10.893)

Sometimes, I don't know if you have this when you're watching a movie or seeing somebody perform, you're thinking about how you would do it. You know what I mean? It's like you're having a different experience when you're watching or seeing, experiencing something that you do for a profession. And so pop music for me can sometimes live in that world of like, this actually now is stressing me out. And the, I don't know if you can hear my dog screaming. Yeah, that was wild. He's really performing for you.

Robert Peterpaul (20:14.592)

Mm -hmm. Mm.

Robert Peterpaul (20:24.885)

Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (20:30.369)

Yeah.

I know, little cameo, speaking of stressed out, they're like, wah! I love it, thank you, new single.

Betty Who (20:39.755)

Yeah, and I think the experience of like hearing pop music done in this really like soothing, sorry, should I scream at him? I can tell him to stop. Okay, great. But to hear this music in this way that is so unusual in the way that we normally experience it and then it's sort of like.

Robert Peterpaul (20:48.173)

no, it's fine. It'll, it'll, yeah, he'll naturally calm down. I like it.

Betty Who (21:00.313)

tickles all these parts of me that now are no longer like threatened or turn on my work brain and I just get to like hear classical music but then it's like the melodies that we love and know so well. That combo is really like, I think really special and it was a huge part of what made that show successful. That first season, I remember people talking like the music, the use of music in that show was so genius. love it.

Robert Peterpaul (21:03.787)

Hmm.

Robert Peterpaul (21:10.144)

Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (21:16.612)

yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, the power of music, so genius. And you have such a creative genius in general, I think, yeah, one thing, I I love listening to film scores a lot and all that kind of music just for that very reason, but I could kind of nerd out with you on Bridgerton for a while. I do want to ask you, no, no, you're fine. I do want to ask you. I'm like grasping for a transition. I have the cheesiest transitions on the show usually, which I'll probably delight you to in a few questions. We'll see. But.

Betty Who (21:38.136)

All day. Sorry, yeah, we can move on.

Betty Who (21:47.15)

Can't wait.

Robert Peterpaul (21:48.266)

Yeah, I would love to know, is there an act of kindness that kind of stands out to you as changing your trajectory in the arts?

Betty Who (21:57.017)

First thing I just thought of, I've been lucky and have had a bunch of really great experiences with people that I, she's so lucky. A dance break please, yeah. my God, a Bridgerton version of Lucky by Britney Spears, the way I would gobble it up. By me, get my cello back out again. One of the people, you know, speaking of never meeting your heroes, I went on tour with Kylie Minogue.

Robert Peterpaul (22:02.743)

She's so lucky. I need a version of that.

By you, yeah. You singing it. Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (22:23.532)

Mm.

Betty Who (22:26.867)

And I grew up, of course, Australian girl, Kylie Minogue. my gosh. The superstar of all superstars, the neighbor's star turned pop musician, Kylie Minogue. And so I was really like, couldn't really believe that it was happening. And about halfway through the tour in Sydney, which was the same arena that I had seen her perform in when I was like.

Robert Peterpaul (22:26.911)

Mm

Robert Peterpaul (22:34.4)

Yeah. Yeah.

Betty Who (22:47.855)

12, 13 years old, and now I was 22, 23 years old. So was almost like 10 years exactly, full circle, being in the same space, the same venue that I had gone to see her perform. And then I was opening for her in this arena and her tour manager came and got me and was like, hey, like come say hi to Kylie. And I was like, okay. And she sat with me and just like talked to me like a normal person. You I think it's really hard to be someone who you feel you're like.

Robert Peterpaul (22:52.377)

Wow.

Robert Peterpaul (23:01.613)

wild.

Betty Who (23:14.831)

I feel like a nobody and I'm talking to all these people who are somebody. And that makes you instantly sort of unable to carry a normal conversation that feels like humans talking to each other. You're like, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to bother you. And it's like, no, just talk to her like a person. And so she came in and she really showed me what that looks like where she just sat down, asked me questions. She spent like 20 minutes with me in my dressing room, just like shooting the shit, being so lovely.

Robert Peterpaul (23:18.432)

Mmm.

Robert Peterpaul (23:23.606)

Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (23:28.415)

Yeah, yeah.

Betty Who (23:42.159)

and saying thank you for me being on the road with her and being like, great, I'm so happy to have you. And she sort of went about her day and I was like, wow, it takes, she took 20 minutes. It could take three minutes of like giving somebody your time and attention. didn't even have to be that long. She's just very generous of making somebody feel so like seen. And you know, it really shifted my perspective on how little it takes to make someone feel really good.

Robert Peterpaul (23:54.186)

Mm.

Robert Peterpaul (24:06.433)

Yeah.

Betty Who (24:12.643)

which I think is something that obviously you're very passionate about and that's what this whole podcast is about. And for me, what I think kindness is, is just like, it doesn't take that much to step outside of yourself. And it's not even about like being the person that that person wants you to be. It's not even about shifting who you are. It's about meeting someone where you are and saying, hey, I'm a person and I'm right here and I'm happy to talk to you. I'm happy to talk to anybody. And she really showed me what that looked like, especially when, you know,

Robert Peterpaul (24:12.716)

Hmm.

Robert Peterpaul (24:27.147)

Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (24:30.923)

Mm.

Betty Who (24:40.311)

you kind of hear that, never meet your heroes. And I'm like, no, Kylie Minogue was everything that I wanted her to be and more and continues to be to this day, just like I see her and her experience in this business. And she's so professional, but she's so warm and herself. And I really learned a lot. was like, don't, I don't think I, I don't think I want to be mean and scary. You know, I don't think that suits me. I don't know if, and I'm sorry, sorry. Don't show anybody the video.

Robert Peterpaul (24:55.382)

Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (25:01.337)

Yeah, no, I'm glad. Why are you holding up a knife then right now?

Betty Who (25:09.108)

No, you know, and I've had other experiences with different, you know, musicians and pop stars where I've been like, like you actually, seem not like you're having that good of a time. Like, do you even want to, do you like being here? And I think that's something that we all struggle with where it's like our expectations of what the business or our dreams are supposed to look like actually hold us back from experiencing our dreams and enjoying them. And so she's just so, she's so locked in. She's so grounded down to earth.

Robert Peterpaul (25:18.701)

Mmm.

Robert Peterpaul (25:30.741)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Betty Who (25:37.871)

just like, hey, we're playing a show. And I was like, whoa, this is who I wanna be like. You've been nice to me for 12 seconds and it's changed the trajectory of my life. Thank you so much.

Robert Peterpaul (25:39.784)

Mmm.

Robert Peterpaul (25:45.706)

Wow. Yeah, and I love that story and I think it really speaks to the power of kindness on a small level, like you're saying, because we think of kindness, you you think you have to save someone from being hit by a bus or donate to, you know, whatever cause, but it... okay. Sorry about that. Yes. It was my first day as a bus driver, I apologize. But she... But it does, we were, and that's why I brought you here, besides Bridgerton. It does come back to you too. That's a great example of how...

Betty Who (25:55.554)

Totally. That's actually the next part of the story is Kylie Minogue saved me from being hit by a bus. Threw herself in front of me. Yeah.

Yeah, we were all there.

Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (26:15.297)

You know, we don't do it for this reason, but it does come back to you. And now, I mean, I can't say the amount of research I did where I listened to you talk about how wonderful Kylie is. And I hadn't heard that... No, I haven't heard that story yet, but I've just heard you talk about how she's like the best and all this stuff. And you really champion people. In pretty much every interview, you're lifting somebody up, which I really appreciate, but that just goes to show it's now like coming back to her because she took the time to do something that, you know, yeah.

Betty Who (26:23.886)

This is just like my always my story.

Betty Who (26:39.299)

Yeah, man, full circle. Well, and it's funny that you say that, because I think, especially when you're getting into the bit, it's really hard to not be a hater. And I say that with all the love in my heart of for how hard this thing is. It's really hard to not look around and be insecure and jealous and triggered by all of your own stuff. It's never about anybody else. It's always about yourself and being like, I'm not good enough. They're better than me.

Robert Peterpaul (26:49.621)

Mmm.

Robert Peterpaul (27:03.904)

Yeah.

Betty Who (27:07.884)

which makes me hate them.

Robert Peterpaul (27:09.68)

Yeah, because you can let it motivate you or you can let it sort of like be poison to you. That's sort of that what I've learned.

Betty Who (27:14.158)

Yeah, and I feel like every artist probably has like those one to 10 people that they see succeeding out there in the biz and they're like, damn it, know, like, that's another one that like they got and I didn't, you know, we all have these sort of like strange like blood feuds that are totally made up that we all experience in our journey on in this business. And I think that it was so

Robert Peterpaul (27:22.602)

Hmm. Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (27:28.683)

Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (27:35.806)

yeah.

Betty Who (27:38.703)

I tried to make a choice and I'm not always great at it, but I try a couple years ago, I remember my husband actually saying to me like, you're turning into that person who like watches the Grammys and sounds like a hater. Like you, I don't like who that person is and it's not who you are. And I was like, wow, show me to me, Rachel. Thank you so much. You're right, in fact. And that was like a turning point for me. This is probably like in 2017. I was really unhappy. I was really.

Robert Peterpaul (27:51.528)

Mmm.

Robert Peterpaul (27:56.182)

Mm

Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (28:04.8)

Hmm.

Betty Who (28:06.622)

Stuck in a record deal that I felt like was just going nowhere And so was a really tough time in my own life and he really held up that mirror to me and I was like, wow Okay, you're right. And so I really try to be like if something's not for me I'm like cool like so happy for you not for me and I try not to intake it or sort of like rage watch stuff and then when I do really connect with something I'm like, yes this Britney Spears. I've decided to stan I will ride forever for that person. And so I really try to be now like

Robert Peterpaul (28:14.291)

Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (28:21.951)

Yeah.

Mmm.

Robert Peterpaul (28:30.529)

Yeah.

Betty Who (28:34.371)

I look at something, I'm like, this is something I really like about it. And that's what I'm gonna choose to see and try not to do the thing where I let it make me feel bad about myself. Cause it's, that's just like, you know, not enough time in therapy maybe. Yeah, exactly. It's, it's infectious. Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (28:38.913)

Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (28:44.682)

Yeah, it affects everything too. no, well that mindset does affect everything, whether you're on the train and seeing a beautiful family and you're happy for them and it fills you up, or you're thinking that child's so loud and I'm trying to read. I mean, there are a lot of ways we can go in this life. I think this also... Yeah, I mean... it will.

Betty Who (28:56.598)

Yeah. The train will really make you a hater too, you know what I mean? The train really in New York City, that subway will really make you hate everybody. that's not maybe, that's a tough play. I'm happy for, if you're finding a way to find joy and like love for your fellow human on the train, I'm really inspired by you.

Robert Peterpaul (29:11.318)

Ha

Robert Peterpaul (29:16.97)

What's this? Thank you so much. Did you hear that everyone? What's that song? I hate everyone I think it's called. Sometimes you gotta play that by go go. We don't need to talk about that song, but.

Betty Who (29:19.223)

Yeah.

Betty Who (29:23.503)

Yes, it's not the right brand for us here, but yes, there's a Three Days Grace song called I Hate Everything About You as well. That is iconic. Yeah. 14 year old me really loved that song, you know, but it's that's so silly. We think it's like cool to be like, that sucks. You know, it's like it's such a weird cultural thing that way like brought up with to be like, yeah, like, pop music. I turn my nose up at it. And I think there's always been a part of me that's like.

Robert Peterpaul (29:31.957)

Yes! Yeah, it's a screamo. me too.

Robert Peterpaul (29:43.276)

Yeah.

Betty Who (29:49.848)

What are you talking about? Like everyone's having fun. just, if we're all having fun, we're all going to acknowledge it and I'm going to be, I'm not going to be a hater.

Robert Peterpaul (29:51.372)

Mmm.

Robert Peterpaul (29:56.586)

Yeah, and also some things, I mean, I love weird and the word weird I have a different definition of compared to a lot of people. You probably have a similar one. I think in the arts we have a good definition of weird, but I feel like the things that are weird, they're eventually cool one day. know, Dolly Parton, how she started, people weren't always bowing down to that and now she literally can do no wrong.

Betty Who (30:03.287)

I love that.

Betty Who (30:10.988)

Yeah. my gosh. Speaking of, speaking of someone I ride for till the end of time.

Robert Peterpaul (30:18.641)

yeah. Have you been to Dollywood, Betty, because...

Betty Who (30:20.969)

Of course I have. You know, it was really hot and I, I, but I enjoyed, I enjoyed my day. Pigeon Forge, which is right next to Dollywood is a really crazy, crazy vibe. That whole area is a really crazy vibe. I was, yeah, wow. You really have, you really have some, some knowledge of, of this area. Wow. We've really shared something. No, but I, I love, you know,

Robert Peterpaul (30:25.035)

Okay.

Robert Peterpaul (30:31.071)

Yep. yeah. Mm -hmm. Gatlinburg, the downtown, the trolls.

Robert Peterpaul (30:42.54)

Yeah, I'm worldly. I'm there right now. I'm Jolene.

Betty Who (30:51.05)

I have this my own thing, which is like, think why my hair is different and I have a bunch of tattoos, like even since I was a kid and I'm really tall, I'm over six feet tall, which for a woman is like very unusual, I feel like. And so when I was growing up, felt, I already felt very other, but then by the time I was sort of like a teenager and growing into myself, I think I actually really didn't wanna be normal. There are like all of these things that I'm subconsciously showing to people through the way that I dress and style myself and hold myself.

Robert Peterpaul (31:00.032)

Mm -mm.

Robert Peterpaul (31:12.512)

Mm.

Betty Who (31:19.683)

where actually the thing I'm trying to say all the time is like, I'm not normal. I'm a little, I'm different, I'm weird. I'm whatever it is, whether it's people think I'm weird or people think I'm cool or those two things probably actually the Venn diagram of them are exactly on top of each other, but it's just your perspective of how you see it. And I think that's definitely the oddest in us is being like, no, I don't wanna be, actually, if I feel normal, I'm like, yuck. I feel so like.

Robert Peterpaul (31:27.861)

Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (31:34.985)

Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (31:40.223)

Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (31:46.389)

Yeah.

Betty Who (31:47.297)

I'm not expressing myself somehow or that I feel very like a caged animal. Yeah, totally.

Robert Peterpaul (31:49.536)

Mm.

yeah, or like a fish out of water just like slowly gasping for air, you know, I couldn't agree more. It's like we don't, I don't know, we can go down a normal rabbit hole, but I wonder, know, do you, okay.

Betty Who (32:03.628)

I have a question for you. I just had a thought. You know the story of the rainbow fish? I feel like you must be familiar. The children's story, for those who don't know. Yes, my God. Okay, I can't wait. Wow. I'll be on the mailing list. Okay. Yeah, you know the story sort of for.

Robert Peterpaul (32:08.406)

Yeah.

I wrote my own children's book, kind of based on it. No one knows about it, but it's not out. Anyway. Okay, it's called The Rainbow Shoelaces. Okay.

Betty Who (32:24.259)

that there's this fish who has all these fancy rainbow scales and everybody else has like normal boring scales. And everyone's like, wait, I want a rainbow scale. And the rainbow fish is like, my God, I'm happy to share, please. And the rainbow fish gives all of its scales away till everybody has a scale except the rainbow fish is like lifeless and sad and has no scales left. And everybody's like, I'm sorry, that was us. And then everybody kind of comes back together and gives the rainbow fish back the scales. I sometimes like.

Robert Peterpaul (32:28.844)

Mm.

Robert Peterpaul (32:38.814)

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Robert Peterpaul (32:46.324)

Yeah. Which, I need a music video concept of you with Rainbow Scales. Okay. Just pin that.

Betty Who (32:50.67)

100%, honestly, I'm writing that down. You know, I think that that is often a metaphor that I use for how it feels sometimes to like, if you're especially trying to be like the thing that everybody wants you to be and be that like really warm sort of person that can receive people, particularly in like a professional setting, if I'm doing, especially on tour, like meet and greets, people come with really like heavy stories and intense life things that they wanna share and I really wanna be there for you. Do you have any thoughts about like,

Robert Peterpaul (33:08.15)

Hmm.

Betty Who (33:19.692)

you know, the price of kindness in that way where you're like, if you give too much and you're not giving enough to yourself and whatever that is, have you found like the balance of what that looks like? I think as I've gotten older, I've gotten a little bit better at it and I understand my boundaries and also my wants more. I'm like, no, I really want to be here and that has changed my like battery life in that space, but I wonder what your thoughts are on that.

Robert Peterpaul (33:37.643)

Mm.

Robert Peterpaul (33:42.166)

Yeah, no, I mean, thank you for asking me. That was a question I literally had for you a couple questions down. So I'm glad you answered it, but I think no one has the answer and just sort of talking about it is important. For me, it's like everything else in life, right? It's like balance, you know, don't eat too much ice cream. I think if you, cause I'm someone, no, I know, same. I mean, do you feel like this? It's like you're being fed off this energy and you create such a fun vibe at your shows. It's like everyone's doing their wedding dance in the crowd and you know.

Betty Who (33:46.457)

Look at us.

Betty Who (33:56.416)

Mm. Totally. Not great at that.

Betty Who (34:09.143)

Mm -hmm.

Robert Peterpaul (34:09.901)

but then you don't almost realize that it's like so much that you get home and you can't go to sleep. And so it's sort of like that, which is a whole other rabbit hole we can go down. And so I think I've, I don't know, for some reason, like scheduling things sort of helps for me. Like if I know, I mean, it's different for you, but if you know you're gonna have like a 30 minutes of meet and greets, then you can like kind of mentally prepare for that. And then after that, maybe you schedule a bath. Yeah, my wife's helped me with that. Like the awareness.

Betty Who (34:14.597)

yeah.

Betty Who (34:18.158)

Totally.

Betty Who (34:22.732)

Mmm.

Betty Who (34:31.455)

Like knowing how much it's gonna be before you go in. That's actually, that's really real. And I think I'm actually a big, like I have to over schedule myself so that I need to know how it's gonna be walking into it to like manage it. If I am like thrown off, that's when I get like unsafe inside of myself. So that's actually a really useful thought.

Robert Peterpaul (34:42.614)

Yes.

Mm

Robert Peterpaul (34:52.801)

Yeah. Yeah. Like I know I need at least one night on my couch watching something dumb, maybe the, maybe, yeah, or maybe like a reality show, whatever it is. And yeah, just to rot away and eat things. then, and then I'm immediately like, what am I doing? You know? And something like I really relate to that you've talked about that is way down on my question list and I'm going to find it. But you've talked about this, this fear of sort of like the repercussions. might not be saying it right, but the fear of the repercussions.

Betty Who (34:59.256)

to rot, yeah.

Betty Who (35:04.099)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (35:20.872)

of not hustling and sort of like stopping, like not working every moment of your life to follow your dream. And we also need rest, like we're talking about, like how has your journey with that been? Because that's something I really struggle with, like not every second. Last night I wasn't sleeping because I'm memorizing the lines for my self tape audition, like, or then I'm going immediately into the questions for this in my brain. You know, how have you found that journey? Yeah.

Betty Who (35:29.595)

yeah.

Betty Who (35:39.062)

Betty Who (35:42.649)

tell me about it? Yeah, no, that's a really great question. I think it's hard when we're in this business when for me, something I really struggle with is the thought and idea and knowledge. It's like a fact that at any point, like a phone call will change your life. And that like carrot in front of the treadmill facet of our business really

Robert Peterpaul (36:02.571)

Hmm.

Betty Who (36:10.036)

mess really messes with me. It really, that's what I think. It's like, you can work as hard as you want, but it's like the luck aspect of it. Someone just deciding one time, you know, or like one video going viral. It's like, you never know which one it's gonna be. And it's always the dumb one that you think it won't be, you know, totally. It's like, it's so, I think I, as much as I'm an autist, I envy people who are in job trades where you go to school,

Robert Peterpaul (36:16.843)

Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (36:24.687)

yeah, you spent two seconds on.

Robert Peterpaul (36:36.097)

Mm -hmm.

Betty Who (36:37.975)

and then you get this job and then you wait and then you try to get your tenure or your residency or your partnership, whatever the thing is in that next step. And then you like, and then what's your next goal? And that's, it's very like, this is how other people do this. And this is a path that you can follow. And none of us have a path that's gonna be right for us except for our own. And we really have to go find it on our own. So I think, yeah, yeah, totally. Exactly.

Robert Peterpaul (36:51.691)

Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (36:59.79)

Check my Google history. It's like, what's this person's advice for this? And they're all different, which is a beautiful thing. Yeah.

Betty Who (37:06.582)

Yeah, and so I think for me in this stage of my life, know, in my 20s, it was very, I'll sleep when I'm dead. And I'm grateful that I had that sort of gumption, that gusto that I really had in those 20s, where I was, yeah, really just like, let's go, all right. Like I will say yes to everything. I will always be.

Robert Peterpaul (37:15.488)

you

Robert Peterpaul (37:19.082)

Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (37:22.919)

yeah, melatonin.

Hmm.

Betty Who (37:29.89)

You know, I missed a lot of birthdays. I missed a lot of weddings. I missed a lot of, you know, important moments in my friends and family's life. Cause I was like, I have a dream and I'm going to achieve it. And if you don't understand that that has to come first, I'm sorry. And so I think at this stage, you know, I think finding acceptance.

Robert Peterpaul (37:38.998)

Hmm.

Robert Peterpaul (37:44.107)

Hmm.

Betty Who (37:52.91)

This is the other thing is that you work so hard to get a job and then because you've worked so hard your whole life to get that job by the time you get it, like no matter what that job is, it's never gonna live up to the expectation of like 30 years of wanting to have that job. And so I think I'm trying to, and it's an ever, ever, you know, ever changing battle against myself, but I'm really trying to find how to be.

Robert Peterpaul (38:06.112)

Mmm.

Robert Peterpaul (38:13.867)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Betty Who (38:22.169)

comfortable in the life that I have without all the other stuff, right? It's like my therapist calls it your anchor, right? So I think my anchor for me in all through my 20s was work. It was, am a performer, this is what I go to. And now my anchor is like my home life. It's my husband and my dog and my family and my friends and my, you know, the things that don't change and won't go away just because I didn't work a lot this month. And I think that

Robert Peterpaul (38:27.13)

Mm. Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (38:39.094)

Mm.

Robert Peterpaul (38:48.31)

Mm.

Betty Who (38:49.902)

having that as being sort of the base for everything and going, this is what is important to me. What are my goals in this world? Like, I'd love to buy a house. What does that look like in 2024 as a millennia? You know, like, it's never cool in this economy. All right. How do I make that happen? But it's like thinking about wanting to have a life with my family that's comfortable and beautiful. Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (38:56.235)

Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (38:59.764)

Same. Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (39:11.232)

And like prioritize too, right? And sort of like we were talking about, it's like we make room in the day or we just follow all these different waves because we think it's gonna lead to a certain shore. And then sometimes I forget, well, why can't I actually schedule this, we call it a life dinner, some people call it like an hour in the books every week to actually sit and have a meaningful conversation with your partner or whoever it is. It's sort of what you're getting at here. And it reminds me of, I think it was someone I interviewed actually from Hadestown.

Betty Who (39:18.412)

Mm -hmm.

Betty Who (39:24.856)

Yeah.

Betty Who (39:33.09)

Yeah. Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (39:40.567)

which we're gonna go way down to in a second. And you're from Down Under, then you went way down. Thank you so much, I just wanna squeeze that in there. It's written down, I'm not gonna lie. Who said, remember who you're doing this all for. And I think sometimes that can get so lost. It's always there, but just like that, that sort of framing, even if you're in an audition and you're sort of feeling down on yourself, well why am I here? I'm here because I love it.

Betty Who (39:40.654)

way down.

Betty Who (39:46.661)

Nice.

Yeah.

Betty Who (39:54.972)

Mm.

Betty Who (39:58.616)

Mm.

Betty Who (40:04.194)

Yeah. How did I have so, I can't tell you how many moments in my career I've looked around and gone, how did I get here? How is this, is this how it's supposed to be? Is this what it's supposed to feel like? But I think you're so right about that. the, who is it for? know, what I, I think it's a really important like spiritual life question to ask is like, why? What for? What for is always the thing. If I'm going like, I feel super unhappy or uncomfortable or whatever it is. And then I'm like, cool, what am I doing this for? What is this for?

Robert Peterpaul (40:11.148)

Yeah

Robert Peterpaul (40:17.621)

Yes.

Betty Who (40:33.9)

And then you answer that question, then you go, cool, what for? To that question. And you just keep kind of sort of trying to distill it down. And I think it's really easy, especially in a line of work. And maybe this is true for any business that you're, especially if you're like, I have a dream and I'm trying to chase that dream, whether it's I wanna be a lawyer or whatever it is. think it's our getting there so often has to be self -serving. You're like, cool, this is for me. I have always wanted this. I told myself I was gonna do this thing and now I'm gonna go do it. And then...

Robert Peterpaul (40:37.377)

Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (40:49.429)

Mmm.

Robert Peterpaul (41:02.39)

Mm

Betty Who (41:03.267)

when you've done that for long enough, especially as a performer, and maybe some performers don't grow out of this, I know that I sort of have, where I'm like, I don't really need to like come into a room and have a bunch of people clap for me. That's not from, you know what I mean? Like, this isn't, that's not what this is ultimately for me at this stage. I think it really was in my twenties, but now I'm like, sometimes I go to pop shows and I'm like, whoa, this is what we do. Like we dress up in silly outfits, we wear glitter and we come out and like a bunch of people are just like, good.

Robert Peterpaul (41:07.126)

Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (41:16.264)

Hmm. Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (41:29.16)

Cue the clapping.

Betty Who (41:33.368)

good for you. Like sing us the songs you made up. You know what I mean? It's like when I really think too much about it, I'm like, this is where all clowns actually were all just like silly, silly kids playing dress up. And I think that that yes, yeah. And I think it's very like bringing it down. The stakes feel so high. You know, we've been chasing and working so hard our whole lives. And then it's like, I'm on stage. Yeah. And then I'm on stage and I'm like, isn't this silly?

Robert Peterpaul (41:34.337)

You

Robert Peterpaul (41:44.173)

Mmm. yeah. My biopic is called The Jester. I haven't written it yet, but that's me. Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (41:57.521)

Yeah, you have to say yes to everything.

Betty Who (42:03.266)

You know what I mean? Like, man, like, I've probably been taking this too seriously and had so much heartache over this thing for so long. And to arrive at this place where I'm like, okay, well, if it's not for me anymore, because I've done it and I've seen it and I get it now, if I don't need the applause of these people, like, why am I up here? And that's really shifted in the last couple of years for me of like, especially doing Hadestown, maybe it's a nice segue. You know, having that ex

Robert Peterpaul (42:04.509)

Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (42:12.268)

Mm.

Robert Peterpaul (42:17.856)

Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (42:21.494)

Mmm.

Robert Peterpaul (42:26.08)

That's healthy, yeah, I would definitely wanna get there.

Betty Who (42:29.729)

experience of making art that wasn't my own. That was also really, that's really useful because, you know, I write all my songs and I hire all the people around me. It's like very me, me, me, me, me all the time. And that kind of like, it's hard, it's harder for me to do that. I really appreciated the ability and like opportunity to be on stage telling somebody else's story as like a vessel.

Robert Peterpaul (42:33.194)

Hmm.

Robert Peterpaul (42:42.56)

Mmm.

Betty Who (42:56.076)

and go, how do I bring this thing to life the most? And now that has helped so much now coming back to my own aught being like, okay, me in my room, I'm gonna write a song I think is cool. Then me as the performer, how do I bring that thing to life? Kind of detaching from that first part of it. It's like different sections of my brain. And I think that's really like, that's what it's for is for the people in the audience. I saw some like it hot on Broadway when I was in rehearsals for Hadestown and that show,

Robert Peterpaul (42:56.554)

Mm

Robert Peterpaul (43:11.969)

Hmm

Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (43:21.244)

so good. Yeah.

Betty Who (43:25.634)

like tickled every single like big Broadway show thing that I love. Tap numbers, know, like silly goose -ery. We've got jokes, we've got costumes. Like I was so, I was living during the show having the best time. And then at the end, know, Daphne is like, this is who I am. And I've always been Daphne. I, me instantly crying being like, because.

Robert Peterpaul (43:27.84)

Mm -hmm.

Robert Peterpaul (43:33.906)

Mm -hmm

Robert Peterpaul (43:40.353)

Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (43:45.259)

Yeah.

Betty Who (43:49.26)

This is how you change hearts. It's about us in the audience experiencing these people. They do this eight times a week. This might be their worst show of the week. We don't know the difference. We're just watching and feeling, and they are bringing it to life and making it alive and making it accessible for us. so, no, it's silly. just, was two lines of dialogue that made the rest of the silly gooseery really mean something. And that is so.

Robert Peterpaul (43:54.934)

Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (43:58.336)

Mm -mm.

Robert Peterpaul (44:03.584)

Hmm and it's not preachy too and it's I know exactly the part you're talking about

Robert Peterpaul (44:12.469)

Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (44:16.373)

Hmm

Betty Who (44:18.017)

I think inspiring to me that moment really spoke to me and I've been especially then going from like some like it hot to Hadestown rehearsals because Hadestown is so serious. You know what I mean? It's like we're not really having that much fun over at Hadestown. It's like we're really trying to make you feel.

Robert Peterpaul (44:24.741)

yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's like, yeah. But it's still great to watch. And there's also, there was a line with Daphne and the friend character, Christian Borel's character, where he was like, but what do I call you? And basically Daphne was like, it doesn't matter as long as you say it with love. And that gave me goosebumps everywhere because that was such a simple answer. Jay Harrison and Guy, let me listen to that. Yep.

Betty Who (44:40.842)

Mm.

Yeah. Yeah. I know. I think I was crying. I was crying. J. Harrison Gee is one of my like most inspirational people. Jay, I actually remember someone was talking to Jay and said him and they were like, I'm so sorry. They like, sorry. How should I? And Jay, you stopped. think, I don't know if it was Jay started this or the show started it, but Jay looked at her and said anything with love and respect.

Robert Peterpaul (45:09.077)

Yeah.

Betty Who (45:11.522)

And I remember like astral projecting out of my body being like, gosh, how do you just like hold all of this love for everybody who is experiencing you and trying to make you comfortable while being uncomfortable in themselves? And Jay is just like, this is who I am. And as long as you're being respectful and not trying to be a dick to me, basically, I'm gonna meet you with that mutual respect. And it showed me so.

Robert Peterpaul (45:11.528)

Mmm. yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (45:20.309)

Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (45:29.224)

Yeah. Yeah.

It's like an ethereal grace. Yeah, Jay.

Betty Who (45:36.62)

Yeah, I just, felt so, I felt so inspired and every time I spend time with them, I'm like, this is such a, you know, such a beautiful aura and presence that I'm always trying to soak up and try and mimic in my own life.

Robert Peterpaul (45:46.389)

yeah.

Yeah, I mean, everybody go back and listen. We had Jay on here and we did sort of a Gospels According to Jay roundup. And I was talking about astral projecting. was like, like I like jet propelled through the ceiling. I just sat back. I didn't even need to ask any questions. I just listened for an hour.

Betty Who (45:55.407)

Yes. Yeah. Yeah, 100%. This is the hour where you, Jay, are going to speak and I'm just gonna sit here and listen and learn. Yes.

Robert Peterpaul (46:06.443)

Yeah, yes. Well, I want to listen and learn about you and Hadestown. Going down under, just for a second, you I have friends that work over there, actors on stage, actors off stage behind the bar, you know, doing their day job. And when you came to the Walter Kerr, there was such a bright light that I heard from multiple people just saying, Betty who is wonderful, Betty who is And people were so happy to have you there. And that's not always the case. I say that because...

Betty Who (46:12.472)

Mm

Betty Who (46:17.751)

Mm -hmm.

Betty Who (46:23.277)

Ugh.

Betty Who (46:28.44)

so nice yeah

Robert Peterpaul (46:31.348)

With these shows, you hear from people, this person's here now, they won't even look us in the eye, you know, they don't tip or whatever it is. I guess...

Betty Who (46:34.988)

Diva, yes. I'm trying to age into my diva era. Do know what I mean? I'm trying to really, in my 40s I think is probably when I'm gonna become a stone cold bitch. Me too.

Robert Peterpaul (46:39.615)

which is great.

Robert Peterpaul (46:44.1)

yeah, I look forward to that era as well. But before we get there, maybe that was your takeaway from the experience. Looking back on Hadestown, what sort of was that experience like for you being on Broadway? What a bucket list item.

Betty Who (46:56.972)

my gosh, you it's hard to distill. Yeah, yeah. I could talk about it for a million years. You know, I really, I can't tell you how much I loved it. I can't tell you how inspiring it was to me and how much it really changed my life. And it's like, I think we say that really like, my God, that pasta changed my life. We like say that a lot. Yeah, but, and sometimes it's true, carbon, but that it really.

Robert Peterpaul (47:15.722)

Sometimes.

Betty Who (47:21.227)

it really did like shift my perspective in so many ways and I felt so grateful, know? And I think we kind of talked about this a little bit earlier. It's hard when you've worked your entire life to get somewhere that when you start getting there, you're a little bit like, yeah, I don't know though. I like, really tried hard and this really took a lot from me and I don't know how much this is worth it for me. And I think that's easy for me to feel in music because I do feel like.

Robert Peterpaul (47:39.508)

Hmm.

Robert Peterpaul (47:43.732)

Mm.

Betty Who (47:48.462)

I have so much, you know, like so much, 10 years of relationship between me and this thing and doing Hadestown, I didn't have anything, but like, my God, I would love to do that one day. Like that's literally and in my head and hot, I was like, there's probably no way, you know, it's like you, you, we all wish for things and you have to be realistic and go, yeah, you know, it's like, well, that would be amazing. But I just like, can't imagine that that's ever gonna happen. And so for this opportunity to come around where I had no attachment to it,

Robert Peterpaul (47:59.649)

Mmm.

Robert Peterpaul (48:09.494)

Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (48:13.153)

Yeah.

Betty Who (48:17.898)

It was very like spiritual actually in that way where I was like, I'm learning something about how I am coming in because I've come in with no expectation of how it's going to be because I have no experience in this world. I really got to show up and just be like grateful. And I think that that's what made the experience so beautiful for me is that I didn't have any sort of, you know, prior trauma in the business, which is like.

Robert Peterpaul (48:20.47)

Hmm.

Robert Peterpaul (48:33.206)

Mmm.

Robert Peterpaul (48:43.459)

yeah, which we can all, yeah.

Betty Who (48:44.342)

But, you know, I go do anything in music and I'm like, yeah, I know, I've been here, you know, drags on the cigarette. I've been here, done that before, you know, and it's, think, at Hadestown.

Robert Peterpaul (48:49.099)

Yeah. But the way you talk about it is it's in such a relationship setting about everything with your art, which is cool. It's sort of like me and the music, me and... Versus saying there's this old ancient wisdom I don't know enough about to really talk about, although I can make it up, where nowadays everyone says, you're a genius. They're a genius. It's like we used to say back in the way, way, way down days, they have a genius. They have a creative genius. And it was sort of this part of you, but it was separate.

Betty Who (49:12.798)

Mmm. They had, Mm -hmm.

Robert Peterpaul (49:18.506)

which kind of separated the ego. And it's sort of how you speak about this, which I think is just a cool observation.

Betty Who (49:18.658)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Betty Who (49:24.023)

Yeah, that's not, it is an interesting observation. Yeah, you know, and maybe it's just because I still like, it feels like a dream, you know, especially like it's funny because I don't live in New York. Being in New York for six months and doing this thing, I think it would be one thing if I lived in New York and I finished the show and then I like go back to my apartment the night that the show is over and I'm like, whoa, I don't have to do that anymore. But it's crazy like then get on a plane and come home to LA and be in my house in LA. That's the same house before I left for Hadestown. And it's kind of like, you know, I went to, you know,

Robert Peterpaul (49:30.698)

Hmm.

Robert Peterpaul (49:42.325)

Yeah.

Betty Who (49:53.038)

I went to Florida and all I got was this t -shirt. That's kind of how I feel. I went to New York and was on Broadway and all I have is some pictures and memories that feel like they're not even real because it was so dreamlike. 100%. But I really like, you know, I feel so lucky. The show is so incredible. I do think that was also a huge thing for me of realizing like, I couldn't do this if I was like.

Robert Peterpaul (49:56.108)

Yeah

Robert Peterpaul (50:03.838)

That's a merch line. I mean, I would buy that. Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (50:11.958)

Hmm.

Betty Who (50:16.984)

God, I hate this show. Like eight shows a week, eight shows a week and having to do something that you don't really love. Every day I was on stage at Hadestown going, man, this show is transformative. It's like I kept seeing things and learning things about the show. I was like three months, four months into the show still being like, I've never even noticed, like there's so much ought. It's living, breathing ought in a way that comes around, you know, once a generation. It is one of those shows.

Robert Peterpaul (50:19.095)

yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (50:24.085)

Mmm.

Robert Peterpaul (50:30.826)

It's so special.

Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (50:42.219)

Yeah.

yeah.

Betty Who (50:45.836)

So to be a part of that specific show and in the pot that I got to be, it's like Persephone is literally the sunshine and she brings summertime to the people of earth. And so I think that was really tapping into that warmth for me. It felt really exciting and beautiful and taught me a lot about sort of what it feels like physically to emanate.

Robert Peterpaul (50:52.214)

Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (51:03.211)

Hmm

Betty Who (51:10.048)

in a different way than sort of, you know, when I'm like singing my own songs, it's like it taught me a lot about presence on stage. I learned so, I learned so much. The couple shows I've done, Betty Who shows since Hadestown, I just feel like have been off the charts, like so much more grounded. And as a performer, I just feel so much, so changed by it. I just loved, and everybody in the building. Yeah, that's what they say. But I.

Robert Peterpaul (51:13.611)

Mmm.

Robert Peterpaul (51:22.912)

Hmm.

Robert Peterpaul (51:29.388)

It's so cool. Yeah, changed for good. To quote another Broadway show, you know? But that's a lot of energy with, yeah.

Betty Who (51:37.876)

And the cast, you know what I mean? It's it's such a small group of people and I got, I was so lucky. know, Philip Boykin will forever be, you know, my number one stage husband, love of my life. know, I've just, Solea Pfeiffer is like one of my best friends in the world now. And it's so rare to meet those people at the stage of your life where you go, I've known you forever. And now we're just like, we're in this forever now. So I just, yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Robert Peterpaul (51:48.548)

yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (51:51.926)

Mm.

Robert Peterpaul (51:56.842)

Mmm.

Yeah, this is so special about theater specifically and ensembles. You just feel like you have a family, honestly. And I'm sure you get that on the road too with Betty Who shows, I'm sure. But both, yeah. But what's your, mean, okay, both of those take, I mean, eight shows a week, especially Hadestown, which is a longer show and a lot going on. And then Betty Who on tour. mean, what are the ways you show your self -kindness? Do you have sort of favorite ways for self -care and all that jazz?

Betty Who (52:08.054)

Absolutely, that tour bus, yeah, we are in it together.

Betty Who (52:17.312)

Mmm, yeah.

Betty Who (52:25.508)

God, yeah, not enough. know, I do think about, yeah, please help me actually, because you have advice for me. Yeah, please. I will say that in my first Broadway experience, if I, when, let's speak it, when I return, because I would love to, because I just, do, yeah, I'm actually, I'm currently working on one, so.

Robert Peterpaul (52:28.704)

Yeah, we need advice, I'll send you a candle.

Robert Peterpaul (52:43.892)

Yeah, when please? Because you said you write musicals too, right? Or you want to write a musical. Okay. We won't jinx it.

Betty Who (52:53.414)

you know, when I returned to that format, I think my goal would very much be to take better care of myself because I did feel very like I was just like surviving the weeks like and it happened so quick and you know, I heard Lilius White, the great Lilius White, my absolute queen. We were doing a talk back where the kids come, you get bused in from schools on the Wednesday matinee and then they get to stay in, talk to the actors after the show for a little bit. And Lilius was on stage and someone was like asked her for advice and she was like, listen.

Robert Peterpaul (52:59.658)

Hmm.

Robert Peterpaul (53:08.278)

Come on. Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (53:19.071)

Yeah, so fun.

Betty Who (53:23.82)

eight shows a week, you never feel like doing it. And people don't understand that. She was like, maybe once a week, maybe Tuesday night, you're coming back from a day off and you're like, huh, I'm kind of excited to go do a show today. Every other show of the week, you're like, God, I can't believe I have to do this right now. And you have to find it. And I was like, that is so fucking real, Lilius, because it comes at you so fast and there's never enough recovery time. And so I think I...

Robert Peterpaul (53:29.1)

Hmm.

Robert Peterpaul (53:36.257)

Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (53:43.721)

I love that.

Betty Who (53:50.358)

I was finding the format and understanding what it was, but I think if I come back, I would really love to prioritize making more time for myself to like, especially my body. And just like, you get so beat up. But on tour, we're pretty good. It's great because I have dancers doing my Betty Who show, which means that they are very...

Robert Peterpaul (54:02.9)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (54:10.955)

Mm.

Betty Who (54:13.592)

they're usually very good about taking care of their own bodies, because you have to. And I think because I didn't start as a dancer, I'm such a musician who just wants to be a dancer. I think I've learned so much from them. Yeah, big move over energy that I.

Robert Peterpaul (54:16.886)

Mm -hmm.

Robert Peterpaul (54:23.236)

Same, I'm a mover. I'm a strong mover, yeah.

Betty Who (54:28.364)

that I've had to learn from them about sort of maintenance and stretching and all of that. We're really militant about warming up. At Hadestown, never, always, always rushing to places like me and Soleya, the last people running down to the stage for places. was, Hadestown is not a good example, but on the Betty Who tour, it's like, I finished meet and greet and then there's like two and a half hours before the show. And I spend that basically entire time warming up, like my voice, my body, taking it really slow, taking it easy. I like to have so much time.

Robert Peterpaul (54:35.52)

Mmm.

Yeah

Robert Peterpaul (54:52.565)

Hmm.

Betty Who (54:57.678)

So I think that that's the kindness that I've shown myself now is just like not the rush of it. The, my God, my God, have to go to, it's 15 minutes and I'm not dressed. Like I like to be dressed an hour before show. Again, Hadestown, horrible example. Calling places, putting my dress on. Do know what I mean? Like I'm so.

Robert Peterpaul (54:57.967)

yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (55:04.53)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Hmm. Well, there's nothing more wild than like you finish a show and then you walk out of it after performing. like, I feel so warmed up now. I could do a whole show. And it's like, well, maybe you should have spent two hours before, like you're saying. I think that's really helpful. Wouldn't that, wouldn't it be nice? It would not be nice to end our time together. Do you mind if we just go a couple minutes over? Okay, cool. I have like 87 more questions for you, but I'm going to avoid them because I want to respect your time and be militant about that.

Betty Who (55:19.478)

Yeah.

100%, wouldn't that be nice? Yeah, yeah. it would.

Betty Who (55:30.656)

Absolutely, absolutely. I have nothing. You're good. Yeah, great.

No, I appreciate you.

Robert Peterpaul (55:38.796)

So just like a couple more things. The one, I could ask you about Broadway all day honestly, but there's one song that kept like coming up for me in sort of your repertoire as we were talking. It's called The Old Me. Maybe not one you would have thought that I would bring up. But it made me curious. You know, it's kind of all about finding joy in feeling like that old version of yourself. It's a very relatable song, you know, getting your old self back again. Big question alert, but...

Betty Who (55:46.165)

Mmm. Mmm! heck yes! Okay!

Betty Who (56:01.794)

Mm.

Robert Peterpaul (56:05.482)

What would you say sort of is the old version of you or like kind of the best version of you that you romanticize or look on to?

Betty Who (56:13.562)

I think that that song specifically is really about releasing yourself from like some kind of probably relationship. For me, it was about a record label for other people who have been like, have come to me and talked to me about that song. It's like I was divorced and this song was like my theme song when I got a divorce, whatever it is. I think when we're in situations or relationships that make us feel not like ourselves.

Robert Peterpaul (56:24.565)

Mm

Robert Peterpaul (56:34.123)

Yeah.

Betty Who (56:40.526)

So I think to me, like the old me is not really about like when I was 22 and skinnier and like my knees didn't crack so much. It's more like when you know, it's yeah, as they just like snap crackle pop. For me, the old me is really about like connecting to that part of yourself where you're like, I'm free. I think it's about freedom to be yourself and to to not be thinking about somebody else's reaction all the time. You know, I think especially when you're in like

Robert Peterpaul (56:48.652)

As I move my knees.

Robert Peterpaul (56:54.047)

You

Robert Peterpaul (57:00.372)

Hmm. Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (57:08.682)

yeah.

Betty Who (57:10.068)

spooky relationships where you're like, my God, I know if I say I'm damned if I do and I'm damned if I don't. And then you're sort of in this constant pattern of trying to appease somebody else's wants and needs. And so when you finally get to go, what do I, what, what do I want actually? That experience I think is that's really what that song is about for me. And that's when I think about like the old me, it's like, you know, I guess what, if I'm romanticizing myself, it's like being on stage. I'm like, my God, I just want to like, I don't want to be overthinking.

Robert Peterpaul (57:29.323)

Hmm.

Robert Peterpaul (57:35.403)

Mm.

Betty Who (57:38.959)

and I don't wanna be trying to get to the place where I get to be on stage. Like that is absolutely the place where I feel the most free and sort of alive, lit up is being in front of people and sharing my songs. It doesn't have to be my songs, but sharing experience, I think. I'm like a games pro, I love games. You know what I mean? If like my friends come over for a birthday, I'm like, cool, we're playing charades. And then when charades is done, we're gonna play this next game. And then when that's done, we're playing Rummy 500 until it's four in the morning. Everyone's like.

Robert Peterpaul (57:51.638)

Mm.

Robert Peterpaul (57:55.574)

Yeah.

same.

Robert Peterpaul (58:04.428)

Yes Have you done Jack in the Box? You know the the one on your TV where everyone has on their phone Yeah, such a good time not that we want to be on our phones But wait this actually this is too perfect because I do have a surprise game and so I just feel like we're talking about games Okay, this is a quick game. I promise you it won't take too much time. It's really done. It's called the compliment game It's like not even much of a game and basically Betty I did I reached out to someone in your life

Betty Who (58:06.168)

Can we take a break? I'm like, no, activities.

Betty Who (58:12.558)

Of course, on your phone. Yes, yes, yes. Iconic. Yeah.

Betty Who (58:18.818)

Yeah. my God. I love a game. Okay, great. Okay.

Robert Peterpaul (58:33.677)

for a loving statement about you, and then I'm gonna read it to you, and you have to guess who said it. Yeah. And I have a cheesy theme song that I can put in later on. Okay, so I'm gonna read you this compliment here, and then I'll, okay, then there's no rules. Like, I'll try to help you. You can ask me yes or no questions. We'll say you get three guesses, because one time someone really got mad at me that there were no rules, so there you go. Okay, thank you. Okay. This is actually really beautiful. Okay.

Betty Who (58:37.422)

Okay, okay, fun. Ooh.

Yeah, please. Great.

I'm nervous. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay, I understand.

Robert Peterpaul (59:04.606)

You are a profoundly kind soul. Your compassion and care extend to so many people, your family, your friends, your fans. Your work ethic is phenomenal. You have a wicked sense of humor and a sharp, quick intellect. Your joy is like a light in a dimly lit room. You are cheeky and playful. You make us all laugh when you perform your goosey emu. You believe in a world where the best of humanity thrives.

and where honesty is paramount. You are an absolute delight to know you have taken the best from both of us.

Betty Who (59:41.624)

Gotta be my parents. Gotta be my mom. Is it my mom?

Robert Peterpaul (59:45.384)

Love from your muddy. mom, mootie, mootie. Okay, mootie. There we go. See, I only know about Gatlinburg. Pigeon Forge, okay. Yeah.

Betty Who (59:47.091)

Yeah, Mutti, Mutti, yeah. It's mother in German. Yeah, Mutti. Wait. You know it is? Pigeon Forge in Dollywood. That is so funny. She gave herself away with both of us. You took the best from both of us. That was a giveaway. And the emu, cause I am a goose, but when I kissed her, I wind up and I.

Robert Peterpaul (01:00:04.574)

Yes, I was gonna save that as a hint, but...

Robert Peterpaul (01:00:10.988)

that's beautiful. That reminds me of the Grinch like...

Betty Who (01:00:12.34)

you know what I mean? And so that's the goosey emu. So she gave herself away a couple times there. I thought for a second it might be Solea, you know, like calling me silly. I was like, if it's silly, but then, yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (01:00:23.552)

I know, I was gonna reach out to Hadestown peeps, but then I just got one from your mom and I was like, this is kinda too perfect. I'm just, like, what a joy, what a beacon of light via email too. She's such a lovely person. Yeah, yeah.

Betty Who (01:00:32.622)

She, yeah, that's really where I get it. She's very, all of the pots of me that are very like shiny and warm really come from her. All of the wicked and silly stuff comes from my dad, but she is like truly sunshine in a person. She's very gifted in that way of making people feel safe. And she used to be in personal development. So she would like do seminars with people like talking about really intense stuff and trying to bring the best out of them. And so I think that.

Robert Peterpaul (01:00:42.732)

Mmm.

Robert Peterpaul (01:00:57.377)

Yeah.

Betty Who (01:01:01.294)

part of her that was like on stage running things is really where I get my sort of ability to hold space. She is really gifted and that's really sweet and I love her very much. Mama, yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (01:01:09.164)

Mmm.

Robert Peterpaul (01:01:13.214)

thank you, Cynthia, that's so sweet. And I love the, I sort of like the balance of like, talking about kindness, I never want it to be preachy. I like things to be a little bit unhinged, but also rooted in kindness. So it sounds like both your parents kind of give you that nice, yeah, like it doesn't have to be all puppies and rainbows. It can be a little like,

Betty Who (01:01:24.538)

Me. Yeah.

Betty Who (01:01:29.773)

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, no, they're very, you my dad is very, you know, I think I said wicked already, but he has that sort of sense of humor that you have to sort of know him and love him and get it. And I think that I've had to walk it back a little bit in my professional life, but that's something that they're both, you know, I think there's a lot of, I am a Libra, so there's a lot of balance in my life from both of them. And we kind of joke, because I married a Sagittarius who's like the most intense person of all time.

Robert Peterpaul (01:01:51.308)

Okay, yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (01:01:58.725)

wow, okay.

Betty Who (01:01:58.944)

So we're always, like, how did this happen where you just like have to be like balls to the wall? And I'm just like, can we, I really do connect to the girl in Mean Girls who's like, I just want to like bake a cake full of rainbows. Yeah, why can't we all just be friends? I am, know, because that really is me. The she doesn't even go here girl is very me coded,

Robert Peterpaul (01:02:08.522)

Yeah, I knew who you were talking about. Well, you're a big baker, so you could.

Yeah.

I love that. I could die. Yeah. She doesn't even go here. I didn't even get to your baking. I didn't even get to the video you just posted Sunday in the park with George. I had so many things, but we run out of time. Betty.

Betty Who (01:02:26.352)

my gosh, I know, move on that song. I will tell you driving to, driving into New York on the plane, getting ready, like moving to New York for my first days of rehearsals for Hadestown. I was listening to musical leader on the plane, like getting myself into the spirit. And I will tell you, I had never heard.

Robert Peterpaul (01:02:41.605)

Mm -hmm, as you should.

Betty Who (01:02:45.728)

Sunday in the Park with George all the way through. I'd never heard all the music. I've never seen it. I've like, know, look, I made a hat. You there are things that on it that I had heard before, but I had never heard Move On and I was listening to Move On and it like actually the first chorus hit as I was driving in from JFK across the bridge and the whole city was there. And it was just like, this is like a whole new chapter in my life. And I have to let go everything that I have been holding onto and have all this pain and trauma about. And I just have to like move forward into this thing. that.

It's on time really. One of my number one favorite song songwriters on the planet. Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (01:03:16.841)

yeah, slaps. same, move on, such a beautiful song. And your cover, if you haven't seen it everybody, go to Betty's Instagram page. I don't know where it will be in the grid by the time this comes out, but it's worth searching for because it's beautiful. That tone, that like, I can't even, the air, breath, whoa, whoa.

Betty Who (01:03:25.464)

Thanks. Gas it up. Gas it up. thank you. Wow. So much air. I had a producer call me a windy lady one time because of so much air. So that's me, windy lady. Yeah. God, I love that song.

Robert Peterpaul (01:03:39.37)

That's a gift. Paint with all the colors of the wind. That's what I say. Let's go into that. I need so many covers. I need a Betty Sings Broadway concert. Yeah, I could talk to you for hours, but I'm gonna let you go and be respectful of your time. The one thing I would love for you to leave us with is a tangible kindness tip. So something you would like for listeners to do out there on their own corner just to try and make the world a little brighter. Well, I've said brighter like I was kind of British, but I'm not.

Betty Who (01:03:47.318)

Alan Menken, know we need a couple hours. Yeah.

Betty Who (01:03:56.408)

Mm.

Betty Who (01:04:09.039)

A little brighter. Good for you. Wow. I locked into that accent really quick too. I like that. I'm gonna bring it full circle to what we started with because I'm a big compliment girly. I give a lot of compliments. I tend to receive a lot of compliments, especially from strangers. But I think that's because you have, when you have an aura of like openness, people then like receive that and feel it back and they wanna share it.

Robert Peterpaul (01:04:09.644)

A little brighter. I am auditioning for something like that. Okay. Thank you. You did, it was good.

Robert Peterpaul (01:04:23.628)

Mm.

Robert Peterpaul (01:04:35.051)

Yeah.

Betty Who (01:04:36.802)

And so I think my tangible kindness tip is if you see somebody and you think something nice about them in your head, just share it with them. We all want to feel it. And if they receive it a little weird, that's fine. You're trying to spread kindness. You don't need them to be like, my God, we're best friends now. It's just like taking someone and saying, hey, I really love this about you. I just was noticing you. That's it. You don't need to receive anything back. But I think that that full circle, think, you hear stories about

Robert Peterpaul (01:04:54.836)

Mmm.

Robert Peterpaul (01:05:00.705)

Yeah.

Betty Who (01:05:06.998)

it takes one small act of kindness to change somebody's day, to change the trajectory of their life. And I think that sharing how we feel and when we see each other and sharing that instantaneously as opposed to just holding onto it, you know, and I think that's my tangible kindness tip. Yeah, I love it.

Robert Peterpaul (01:05:12.683)

Mm.

Robert Peterpaul (01:05:24.236)

I it. I love it. Yes, tangible tip. I love it. Well, because I think it's sort of like the positive version of if you see something, say something. And we see that sign everywhere. It doesn't always have to be negative. You we hang up that sign for the negative, which is we need, you know, for safety, but for the backpacks. But also like it could be nice, you know, if you see something, say something in someone. That's what we're here for. And I've, yeah.

Betty Who (01:05:31.486)

One billion percent, yes. Yes. For the backpacks, yeah, totally. For the scary backpacks, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and moving the needle a little bit forward as far as like other people's confidence, you know, I think it's really, we all, especially like if you think about how you speak to yourself and you know, in your darkest moments, like how...

Robert Peterpaul (01:05:52.764)

Mmm.

Betty Who (01:05:59.074)

dark and sad and horrible that can be, we all have that inside of ourselves where we're all like turning that sort of monster in on ourselves. And so to be the person who just stops someone in the middle of their day when they might be having that conversation with themselves being like, I'm a piece of shit, you all this stuff and you go, hey, I love that outfit on you. Just like your energy is so beautiful. Like could completely stop that pattern inside of that person's head from continuing on and like creating real harm inside of themselves. And we can do that for each other.

Robert Peterpaul (01:06:01.334)

Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (01:06:11.5)

Hmm.

Robert Peterpaul (01:06:17.578)

Hmm

Robert Peterpaul (01:06:26.25)

Yeah, because if someone cuts you off when you're walking or does something kind of rude, you immediately have that reaction. But training ourselves to just be like, walking around like Amy Adams in Enchanted, know, like singing and being like, it's beautiful and there's cartoons everywhere. Thousand percent. Happy little working song. Well, Betty, I'm singing a happy little working song in my brain right now because I had so much fun with you. It was so great to share a little audio space with you. And I'm just, of course, and I'm so grateful that we have someone like you to look up to in this biz.

Betty Who (01:06:31.48)

Yeah

Betty Who (01:06:37.454)

100 % yeah happy little working song

Betty Who (01:06:45.612)

Mm -hmm.

Betty Who (01:06:49.4)

Thank you for having me.

Betty Who (01:06:55.431)

I look up to you. This is so nice for us. We look across at each other

Robert Peterpaul (01:06:56.042)

Yeah. yes. Well, I literally look up to you because I'm a short king. I'm not too short though. I want to be tall. Thank you. I'm not the tallest poppy, I will say, to bring this baby full circle. But. thank you.

Betty Who (01:07:02.24)

Yeah, yeah, short king. Yeah, I love that about you. Yeah.

I love that about you. I ride for a short king. I married one. I forever will be lifting up both literally and metaphorically short kings everywhere. Yeah.

Robert Peterpaul (01:07:19.54)

Yes, love lifts us up where we belong. I just, yeah, I thank you so much.