This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] vicky jewson: Hi, I'm vicky jewson, and you're listening to The Art of Kindness.

[0:10] Robert Peterpaul: Hello, beautiful people. Welcome to the Art of Kindness, where we have compassionate conversations with artists from all areas of the entertainment industry who are using their voice to spread joy and make this big spinning planet in the universe a better place to be. I'm Robert Peterpaul, and I'm so glad you're here.

[0:56] Robert Peterpaul: vicky jewson is a writer, director, and producer who began her career at the age of 16, directing several short films and establishing her production company, Jewson Film. She most recently directed Pretty Lethal, an action-packed thriller where five ballerinas stranded in a remote forest on their way to a dance competition take shelter at an unsettling roadside inn where they must weaponize their elite training to survive. It's now streaming on Prime Video and such a fun watch. Please come and be friends with us there. We're creating a kindness community, and I would love for you to be a part of it. Oh, audio hug. I really loved talking with Vicky, and I think she has some amazing advice for how we can all specifically build a kinder world. Now, without further ado, please enjoy the vibrant vicky jewson.

[2:12] Robert Peterpaul: Vicky, congratulations on Pretty Lethal, which I gotta say was pretty awesome. Happy premiere day.

[2:19] vicky jewson: Thank you very much. I'm very glad that you liked it. I loved it.

[2:24] Robert Peterpaul: My wife and I watched it last night, and she, like is the case when I have a screener, she had no idea what I was putting on. And as soon as it started, just the way you introduced the characters, and she's a dancer, so the dance world element sucked her in immediately. She was like, I am in. And we were just along for this wild ride, this massive ship that you steered in such a brilliant way, sort of balancing the horror and the humanity and the humor. Just brava, I gotta say, off the top. Thank you for making this movie.

[2:52] vicky jewson: It was so much fun. Thank you. Yeah, it's been a very special part of my life for six years now. From immersed in the world of ballet to pulling that incredible team together and going on the ride. It's been a real privilege and so exciting to make a movie about a female ensemble action squad who all survive and who will have each other's backs. Ultimately, you know, that messaging of women helping women and the sisterhood was really what drew me to it in the first place.

[3:25] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, I love that so much. And you mentioned this ride you've been on, and I'm sure, like the bus in the film, there were some breakdown moments where you had to get off the bus, walk through the woods, knock on someone's doors to make this movie, and I can't wait to unpack that with you. But before we get there, just to set some context, we're all about kindness here and learning about people in the industry who use their platform to try and tell stories like this and make the world a better place. What would you say kindness means to you, Vicky? And how do you think that definition has changed over the years?

[3:57] vicky jewson: I think for me, kindness is about setting a culture of encouraging and supporting the people that you go to war with. Because making a movie is a bit like going into a battle. And so it's important to stay cognizant of supporting the person to your left and to your right. And I think the reason that I got into filmmaking was that I love teamwork. And I made movies from the age of seven with my mates in our summer holidays. And we'd all get together, camp out at my parents' house, raid my mum's wardrobe. My dad would get us the fire engine to have the rain, and we'd drive around Oxford, creating chaos and the joy of it to share my passion with my closest friends. And that's something that I've tried to continue on as I've evolved through my career is to never lose sight of that magic dust that I discovered as a child.

And that's harder to do as you get into these situations where there's a lot more pressure and there's a lot of money at stake. But I've been very fortunate to meet people along the way, heads of department, who I think lead in a similar way to me, in that it's about loyalty, it's about encouraging your team under you, it's about treating people how you want to be treated. And I think it's really important when you work with talented people to recognize their talent and to make space for it and to make room for everybody's creative ideas to come to the table. So that for me is my very long answer about kindness in this space.

[5:28] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, I loved that answer so much. And I relate to a ton of it. I mean, I also grew up making little short films with friends. I remember one time we were digging a hole in the backyard to try and make a lake for a scene, and then we had a hose. We thought it was so easy, and my dad ran out and was like, What are you doing to the backyard? But it is having that kid-at-heart mentality that I find just to be so special in this business. And I really love that you mention acknowledging people's talents because I think sort of as you get to work on higher caliber things or you're in more pressure-filled environments, sometimes that doesn't happen. Sometimes we stop only when there's a problem, but not when someone did like an amazing job.

And certainly in your film, there's elements that deserve applause from the actual dancing to the choreography of the cameras. So do you feel like that's a tangible way as a leader that you try and set a kind tone? Is just is that one of the ways? I was curious about that.

[6:24] vicky jewson: Yeah, there's a phrase that my dad taught me, which is never be afraid to surround yourself with people who are better than you. And I really believe in that phrase. But my approach was okay, I'm gonna go and find the best director of dance in the country. And I met this Laurence Olivier award-winning Royal Ballet Dance Director, and I said, Teach me everything you know, you know. There's I'm never afraid to put my hand up and say I don't know something. And I think that's also a strength, and that's an important thing to set in the culture of leadership. And it's okay to learn. And if you find the right people and you can put your trust in them, then everything just gets better. So I always kind of go that.

It's like never be afraid to surround yourself with people who are better than you. And I think if you can do that across the board, because filmmaking is a great effort, then your quality of what you're making just goes up exponentially. And I think it takes a lot of confidence in yourself to be able to do that. Because I think as a director, you have to really hold the confidence of your entire crew and team. And you have to lead and you have to make decisions every day, thousands of them. And I think I've always been very fortunate that I do have this sort of inner well of self-belief. And so I don't feel insecure about that. I'm always very sure about what I'm making. And I think it's a great asset to be able to have other people make that better for you.

[8:10] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. Speaking of making things better, is there a dog in the room with us? Because I feel like I hear a little collar. Okay, what's the deal? I need to know.

[8:16] vicky jewson: No, I love it. I need to know. It's because it's his dinner time, and so he's like, it's but it's defrosting because we've only just got home. So he's campaigning for his dinner. He might come back.

[8:26] Robert Peterpaul: Oh no, he's gone.

[8:29] vicky jewson: Oh, I love a pup. Okay. Well, maybe we'll get a cameo later on.

[8:33] Robert Peterpaul: But my mind is blown, Vicky. I can't believe you've never shot dance before. Because my one thing with watching dance numbers on films sometimes is that you don't get enough wide shots to actually appreciate the choreography. And I feel like you balance that so deftly with the insert shots of the actual fight combat choreo, but then the actual choreo. I mean, it was beautifully done. So I feel like it's cool when you can admit you haven't done something before and then actually learn and do it well. That's one of the things I think Guillermo del Toro talks about that. It's like only take on projects that are gonna push you that make you a bit scared, because that's how you get better as an artist, and that's how you improve your craft.

And I feel that the thing that drew me to Pretty Lethal was the specificity of the world of dance, because I think action's really successful when it's specific. And I felt that getting to know these prima ballerinas and seeing the level of sacrifice and dedication and skill that it takes to be at their level gave me an access route into the world of action we hadn't seen before. And I'm always looking for the authenticity behind the action that I create because I want to bring real people to the screen, and then I want the audience to invest in the stakes. So immersing myself in that world was a complete joy. And exactly as you mentioned, I was very conscious of not wanting it to be choppy.

And because we were working with dance doubles, stunt doubles, and the cast, that was a real challenge to figure that out technically because ballet, when it looks its most beautiful, is wide, and you get the shapes and the arcs and the elegance. And so it was a very technical process to figure out how we were going to weave, particularly those fight sequences together without sacrificing those elegant moments. We called it elegant grit, but I think what was really helpful is I had years to plan it. So if I'd been if I'd got the script and we'd been shooting it three months later, I might not have had such an opportunity to learn as much as I did. But because it took a while to come together, and because I was very fortunate to meet these very passionate dancers who were happy to develop with me.

We had no green light, we had no money. They adjusted it for the love of it. And so you know, I spent a good 12 months getting to understand it before we were actually in a world where we were working in a studio and prepping it.

[10:51] Robert Peterpaul: Elegant grit. That is such a great way to distill this project, and certainly, spoiler alert, I mean, the end scene is very elegant, and it almost looks like their costumes were maybe dyed a certain way to be a part of the final dance that they're doing from like a judge's perspective, if I'm in the audience, you know.

[11:07] vicky jewson: Right.

[11:08] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, I thought that was so cool how you towed that together. But I want to go back to something you mentioned, which is specificity, and in doing research on you, that was almost in a way, if I may, my guess for something you perceive as kindness both to yourself and others, which is being specific. And you had a great quote where you said the root of every great action story is specificity, and your whole mission really is to infuse more female perspective into that space, which I think is wonderful. And I think missions like this do best in the world when they are specific, because there's so many issues it can be overwhelming, right? So, how did you kind of hone in on not just knowing that you wanted to empower female voices, but like this very specific mission?

[11:54] vicky jewson: I think it's something that I've wanted since I started making films as a child, because I love the action space. I used to write comic books, and I was a real tomboy growing up, and all the movies that I fell in love with were those temple action movies of the 80s, and there were hardly any women in them. So when Kill Bill came out or Ripley in Aliens, I kind of clung on to it, you know. But I kept wanting to tell those stories from my perspective, and so from the get-go, I was on a bit of a mission in order to do that, and because normally actually I write all my own stuff, and I now write with my for the last 20 years with my husband who's my co-producer. But we're always trying to find a way in to tell those stories that feel authentic to the female lens.

And I think the key is that as a woman, you approach that action universe in a very different way to how a man does. And on our movie Close, which was about a bodyguard, we spent a lot of time hanging out with female bodyguards, and they were the first to say, we approach the job differently to our male colleagues. And it was those details and that specificity that really interested me and made me feel that we could tell the story in a way. I'm really sorry, my phone buzzed in a way that's.

[13:03] Robert Peterpaul: That's okay. You're popular. It's a big day for you. We hope you're getting lots of well wishes.

[13:07] vicky jewson: It just made me feel we could create and tell a story in a way that hasn't been done before, but also that felt loyal to the character and to the real people that we were spending time with. I think a way that I continue to hone it is I always find a touch point of a real person from that world. So on Close, it was a real bodyguard called Jacqueline Davis. On Pretty Lethal, it was three prima ballerinas at the Royal Opera. And I think if you can find that way in that's authentic and true to them, then you can tell a story that resonates to a wider audience in a way that makes them feel they're not being just given some sort of redressed. I think there's been such a tendency, particularly in the action space, to just take a script that's male-driven and just change the character name, you know, from Victor to Victoria or whatever. And I think that isn't enough to make that story then resonate for a wider audience.

[14:23] Robert Peterpaul: And I was reading the kind words of another one of your collaborators, the writer and also actor Kate, is it Freund?

[14:30] vicky jewson: Yes.

[14:31] vicky jewson: It's yeah, like German for friend.

[14:34] Robert Peterpaul: Well, it sounds like she's a great friend because she said so many great things about you, but it was interesting to read, and I'm not surprised just in this world, it's so hard to get anything made. But they said so many people read the script and were like, what is this? What's going on? Where's the final girl? You know, who is the audience for this? Which is such a funny question now because look at one of the most popular shows of all time in this generation, Stranger Things. It's like, who's the audience for that? Well, kind of everybody. So can't we just get on that train? Whatever.

[15:03] vicky jewson: Yeah. Vicky navigated all these doubts with grace and tenacity, she said, and I'd love to hear more about the actual pitching process and how you sort of found the strength to not give up over the course of I think you said six years.

[15:15] vicky jewson: Yeah, I think when you commit to making movies in the action space that star women, you acknowledge that's going to take longer. So you know it's going to be a fight. Based on my experience, it's a fight because you're coming up against a lot of sexist opinions. But I think the film came together and fell apart many times through the pitching process. At no point did anybody like recoil from the pitch. I think Kate, before I joined, did have people say to her, "Can't you make it about a male baseball team?" And credit to her for saying, "No, that's not what this is about."

[15:58] vicky jewson: And I think that the fact the specificity of why it was so unique is what made the pitching about it easy because it isn't something we've seen before, right? So there was such a unique hook. I think what was more complex was the tone and how to present that to the studios that we were pitching to, or the other producers, and how we were going to navigate that sense of comedy and then the absurd events that occur and how we would stay connected to the characters throughout that.

[16:30] vicky jewson: And my approach twofold it was to really find the right cast so that those girls, that troop would make us feel our feet are on the ground because they're real people. And what I loved about the script was that they're not superheroes, they're not fighters, they have this incredible skill of being amazing ballerinas, but they are everyday young women, and for me that gave me our point of view for the film. And then I wanted to build the world of the inn based completely around the character of Devorah, played by Uma Thurman, who is from the world of ballet.

[17:06] vicky jewson: So that then allowed me to embrace the absurd tone because I could create a world that she has crafted based on the theme of the movie, which is about pursuing your dreams, and she's stuck in her childhood dream because it was robbed from her. So she's trying to freeze time in that moment, and therefore she can hang 2,000 ballet shoes from her ceiling, and she can create a shrine to what she lost, and we can buy into that as an audience because we can see as a character that's what she's processing.

[17:35] vicky jewson: So we can live in both those spaces. So my pitching was always about those characters and also how to achieve the tone through that location. And obviously, it was also about the research that I'd done into the world of ballet and how that would speak to the fighting and how we would be creating a different kind of fight scene than we'd ever seen before, because we were always going to build it from a dance move first, fight move second, which is where this ballet foo came from.

[18:01] vicky jewson: So those were our pillars for the pitch. And then the reasons that it used to fall apart or it did fall apart, some of it was what was going on in the industry at the time. So it was at a studio that was having a bit of a difficulty with the streaming arm and they pulled out. Different studio, the marketing executives said that they found the image of women in tutus beating up men highly offensive. That to me was just fuel, right? That was like that's offensive, actually, to say that.

[18:31] vicky jewson: I can't believe that they told me that. I was like, I can't believe they don't know that that's probably not okay to say that. Well, then you're like, I don't even want it to be here anymore. So it's not the right place. I didn't get it. And it was fuel for why the movie is special, because the thing that really excited me about it was that we got to subvert the world's idea of what a ballerina is. And everybody sees them as these perfect, delicate, fragile little things.

[18:56] vicky jewson: And in its most extreme form, that's how femininity is viewed. And actually, women are tough as nails. We can get through anything. And for me it felt like a great moment to be able to bust that stereotype. So whenever we had those hiccups when we were fighting for the film to be made, it kind of just reconfirmed to me why the film, when it did get made, would kill it. Because there's nothing in this space. So that's where the fear came from.

[19:22] vicky jewson: Everybody was always like, "How can you, how, what is it? What is it like? Can you comp it?" And it's like, no, you can't comp it. It's one of a kind. And that makes it scarier for people to take a risk on it. But it's also I knew would be the reason why it was worth making it. And stuck with that. And I think the big thing about filmmaking is just don't give up. It's just don't give up. You and it and it will happen.

[19:44] vicky jewson: And I think because I've done it a few times before, I know that by now you just have to keep pushing, keep pushing, never give up. And it happened. Amazon, which we repackaged it for the fourth time, took it to the Berlin film market and Amazon International got it. They completely got it. I met them and I pitched them with the producer and they just completely saw what we saw in it.

[20:07] vicky jewson: And then you know you've got the right partner and then you know be able to go and make the movie the way that it needs to be made.

[20:14] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, I love that. Thank you for sharing all of that especially on the DL. My friend Tessa and I are writing a female-driven action film right now that hasn't been really done before. And so I think you gave such great advice about not only not giving up but also the fact that being specific and keeping it tied to these characters is so important.

[20:35] Robert Peterpaul: And I wonder you touched on this a bit but looking at auditions we have a lot of actors that listen to the podcast, hey me obviously a lot of the young stars like you know Maddie is no stranger to the spotlight but I was going to ask you your best audition advice but I wonder with a film like this where the tone can be tricky as an actor maybe just getting a breakdown. Maybe they didn't even get the full script, what's your advice on sort of understanding tone as an actor?

[21:04] vicky jewson: Yeah, it's that's a challenge. I think it's really hard as an actor to come into an audition and you have to make a choice, right? And you might make a swing and it could be completely off. But I think it's better to make a choice and commit to it and deliver it at the utmost of your ability. Because as a director, I can see that. Then I can see, okay, you've made a choice. And even if it's the wrong choice, at that moment, I would then say, "Oh, that's an interesting take. I was seeing it this way. Why did you see it that way?"

[21:35] vicky jewson: I listen, I'm looking for a partnership. I'm always looking for a creative partnership. So all my first meetings with the truth word discussions, you know, they were what's your interpretation of the character? How do you see them in the context of the whole piece? And then it's up to me to say, okay, could you try it this way? And so I think, and it's a bit the same when I'm pitching it for films. As a director, you have to pitch. You have to go in there and you have to win the script if it's not one that we've written.

[22:03] vicky jewson: And I've learned through the last 10 years, it only ever works if I'm really true to my vision. And it might be that my vision is not what they're looking for, but it's better that way because if I try and mind read what the tone is that they're going for or how they see it, and I'm not true to what my voice is, that's not what they want. They want an artist to come in and say, it is this, and this is how we achieve it.

[22:29] vicky jewson: And then if you do that and it's not what they want, it's better that they don't hire you anyway. Because the only way to make a film that works is everybody sees the same vision. So I think that's the same with it. I think that's the same with auditioning. You have to just take the swing, but it's terrifying.

[22:44] Robert Peterpaul: Yes, it can be very terrifying, but that's great advice. And it certainly seems to be true with you as a leader and a filmmaker. I think filmmakers are community makers in a lot of ways.

[22:54] Robert Peterpaul: Oh and I'd love to hear a bit more just about the ballerina fivesome, our big five here. What was your approach to sort of the team building aspect? I know you did a ballerina boot camp and you had some time, which it sounds like it was a bit of a luxury in that regard. I don't know how much, but yeah, what were the ways you sort of had them come together and become this little family?

[23:13] vicky jewson: We started obviously all over Zoom. And everybody came in at different times, and some of them were on board the project for years before it got made. So we'd all got to know each other quite well. And we'd really started communicating over WhatsApp and Zooms and started to build those relationships. The first sort of momentous day was when everybody got on a Zoom all together at the same time because we could really read the chemistry, which was immediately electric.

[23:41] vicky jewson: And then we started every single one of them had their own personal ballet teacher in their country where they lived three months out, and they did two classes a week. And that was to build their confidence because everybody was nervous at it coming in. And then they came out to Budapest three weeks before, and I wanted to set up like a summer camp, as you're saying, in terms of like that community feeling, and it goes back to when I made movies as a kid.

[24:08] vicky jewson: It's that let's all get together, we're all making something we're excited about, let's create a safe space to do that where we're all gonna have each other's backs. So we were all in one building, my director's office was there, all the creatives were there, and then upstairs was the stunt dance space. And every day we wrote a schedule, and it went from dance classes to fight classes, and then they would do rehearsals with me, and then in the evenings, I really wanted to create moments where we could just connect socially and everybody could express how they were feeling.

[24:40] vicky jewson: And so we did a table read in a park, which was a picnic. And that was I wanted to give the actors the space to find the characters together without being watched. So I didn't let anybody else come. It was just me. And I think that immediately creates this sense of I've got your back, you know. And I feel my job with cast is to protect them and make them feel safe. It's the first thing I say when I meet cast, it's like, I am here to give you the space and to protect you so you can do your best work.

[25:08] vicky jewson: You know, if you have a problem, you bring it to me and we will fix it. Because I want to have a dialogue on set where we can be honest with each other, where we can find that emotional truth together. And if we're in a take and it's not working, we can look at each other without speaking and be like, yeah, it's not there yet, and we can figure it out.

[25:24] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[25:25] vicky jewson: So I really special look to create that. And I think a lot of that's just taking is making people feel safe and taking fear off the table and making people feel part of a team and a community where we're all there to win together. You know, it's not about one person's individual success. In ballet, there's a saying which is that in a troupe, everybody has to, everybody is dancing trying to get the solo, but they have to work as a team in order to dance well as a group.

[25:55] vicky jewson: And so there's always this conflict in ballet because of that. And I think in a way that can translate to filmmaking, and sometimes you can forget that it's not about the individual, it really is about the whole.

[26:05] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, that's a brilliant answer. I think that's so beautiful. And I mean, I know we're talking about the whole here, but I do need to just mention one individual in the room, Miss Uma Thurman, who we've touched on, and I mean, I know she must have been an idol of yours because you mentioned Kill Bill. I mean, what did you learn and what were your takeaways from working with this on-screen action legend?

[26:26] vicky jewson: You know, was there something that surprised you about the way she works? She's just so good. I don't think it's possible to be surprised when your expectations are that high.

[26:36] vicky jewson: True, true. If anything, you're just it, I guess she surpassed my expectations, but I knew I was meeting someone that I'd grown up in huge admiration of. So I think what was a joy for me was forming that partnership. And you know, the first meeting, I was awestruck by Uma, and I gave her my vision and hoped that she would come on board.

[26:58] vicky jewson: And then I think it's really important that you move into being teammates so that you can have a dialogue in order to be able to make what you're making the best it can be. And Uma has an incredibly astute way of getting into a script and pulling out those key themes and coming at a scene with multiple options, so she would always have different ways to play the character from very droll and dry to the more absurd and wild.

[27:29] vicky jewson: And I think because she's got this incredible sense of humor, she was able to sit on both sides of that line of enjoying it and having fun with it and letting the audience in on it, but also she understood the root of why the character was broken and heartbroken. And so there were those moments where she'd let us see the character's pain, and Uma just has this ability to do both those things in a very subtle way without taking any of it too seriously, which was exactly the tone of Devora.

[27:57] vicky jewson: And without someone of that talent, I don't think the character would have landed the way that it did. And she's also an incredible leader. She sets a tone on set. She's all about bringing up others, and she backed me in a phenomenal way that made me feel very empowered on set. And she really believes in filmmakers, and she backed the girls, and she really believed in what they were doing. And she was in great admiration for the amount of work that they put in. She encouraged that hugely.

[28:35] vicky jewson: And I feel like I mean, I'm such a fan of hers, and this might sound sort of cheesier and campier, but her as Poison Ivy was kind of one of the last times I really felt like it someone just had this character that was so delicious, but also you rooted for them in a weird way. And she's stuck in the past. And I was kind of fascinated, like you mentioned, by her office, which shout out to production design. I mean, my wife and I looked at each other and we were like, how much did it cost to hang all those point shoes? Those are expensive. Well, she reminded me of Miss Havisham in a way and Great Expectations. She's just like totally stuck in the past. And so was she a part of sort of creating her office in that spooky world?

[29:16] Robert Peterpaul: Yes.

[29:17] vicky jewson: I think she very much was a part of we moved, so we had this active mood board, which I shared with her before we were on set together. Um I obviously had this very strong vision about elements of her office that would speak to her past that we could reveal at key moments in the film to let the audience in on why she is the way that she is. Because it is these reveals were at key moments, and we and we weren't giving away her motivation right at the beginning, and we're not letting the audience into the revenge arc until like the last act. So we needed to find ways to show how much it meant to her that were visual. And so the ballet shoes was because we felt that she would have kept every single one from every single performance, and they normally go through about three per performance.

So that felt very impactful to get them up on the ceiling. That one was already there in the mood board. But Uma added to the mood board with um the colour palette and the depth of the sort of rich colours that we should lean into. We both felt very strongly that Devorah was an elegant woman, and although her grandeur has faded, she would still be elegant and not gauche. And Uma uh kept referring to Marlena Dietrich. I don't know if I say her name properly. I'm really sorry if I've pronounced it badly. But um, one of those old school classic icons, you know, who was very empowered and could wear a floor-length leather jacket, but feel very real at the same time. Uma had a big part and a big hand in the colour scheme of her red suit.

And that was a brave swing, you know. But we knew it would fit within the palette because we kept trading on this mood board, and she'd send me an image, and I'd send her an image, and we created this vast collage together, which then spoke to the production design.

[31:14] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, so cool.

[31:15] vicky jewson: And it's interesting, even just talking with you now with Devorah, because I don't remember seeing right away that she had lost, you know, her leg, and you sort of see her in all her power, and then bit by bit you see that maybe she's not as powerful or perfect as you know, we think, which is so interesting. And even I liken it to sort of the Bones and Princess dynamic, Devorah and uh it's escaping me that the man, you know, the old man that comes in at the end.

[31:41] Robert Peterpaul: Muck of the Okay, yes, yes.

[31:43] vicky jewson: Uh that dynamic, I felt like Bones and Princess could almost turn into a similar dynamic. It could fester if they if they chose anger over like love. And I feel like that was a lesson I took away from the film was like choose the love and the togetherness uh that we could all have in this world versus the anger.

[32:02] Robert Peterpaul: And and I just thought that was beautiful.

[32:04] vicky jewson: Yes, it's like Devora's bitterness had destroyed her because even after she'd lost her dream, she had stuck in that space and it consumed her. And I wanted to see her character devolve as her moment for revenge was coming. And so the idea was that she was passing the baton on to these young women who were rewriting the way that women can combat against the patriarchy, right? You know, like I love that line when Bones says, Men like your father don't help girls like us, to Pasha, which is this moment of I think it's like represents that younger generation who are here to fight, you know, who are here to Devorah made one choice, she felt she didn't have a choice, and she got stuck and she lost everything.

And there's this younger generation who are like, No, we're gonna rewrite it. And as you say, the dance at the end when their bloody tutus, that also we were like, we wanted them to shake up that traditional world of ballet and claim it for themselves. And Bones' arc is really about that. She doesn't feel she belongs, and then she has to fight to survive, and she finds her leadership role, and then she can take ballet on her own terms. And Devorah sees that in her, and there's this baton that's passed. And as Princess says, you know, we're ballerinas just like you. That really was the messaging that I wanted to come out of it, which was, you know, the sisterhood passing the baton on and saying, Okay, I lost my chance, you go and take it.

[33:30] Robert Peterpaul: Um that's uh yeah, that is uplifting.

[33:33] vicky jewson: That's a like a wonderful message to be part of. I always get a bit teary when they go over the bridge at the end. It's like a sort of just emotional release, you know, of that freedom.

[33:43] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, such a such a beautiful shot. I mean, first of all, like uh cinematically, and then the callback, of course, with you know, he's he's finally fixed the bus, all is well, and then he's like, ah, you know. I thought that was such a such a fun and beautiful way, like you're saying, to end the movie. And I do think kindness falls under all this, it's kindness can get like a puppies and rainbows reputation. But I think kindness is also hard and it is disrupting things, yeah, if we're being genuine about it.

[34:10] vicky jewson: Well, talking Princess, you know, in terms of her and Bones' character, she's very prickly. I mean, she's honestly on paper on our sole, right? And Lana loves racing that part of her character. But we talked about the fact that that was a mask, and the mask was there because she's protecting herself because she's never really been loved. And in the ballet troupe, she finds her family. She realizes when she's at her most vulnerable, she doesn't have to stand out on her own. You know, she goes off on her own, and that's because she believes that's the only way for her to survive. But when she realizes those girls have got her back and that Bones has got her back and they accept her, she finds this family that she's never had, and suddenly she can be part of something, you know. Speaking to your point about how that central relationship could have festered or become something beautiful, and I think all of them find a family with each other.

[34:56] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, I think so too.

[34:58] vicky jewson: It's like choosing it's choosing your people and and to have each other's backs.

[35:03] Robert Peterpaul: Yes, and you know, I I love that you led with that in this film, and I think it had all the beats of what you look for in sort of a popcorn action film watch, but you really balance the humanity so well. Like I don't in a lot of these movies, it gets lost for me when their adrenaline gets hyped, and I understand they sort of forget about the major trauma that happened, but you really wove in these moments of just like stillness throughout the movie where there's still like you could tell it's washing over them that Miss Thorna is dead. I mean, like they're still processing it in real time, and then they're snapping into action and maybe enjoying working together, but then they still have these moments. And I love that sort of display of strength. Is that something you thought about that you can feel and still fight together?

[35:45] vicky jewson: A hundred percent, yes. I think also unique is because we had an ensemble. We there was always one character that would allow us to have that point of view of fear or the stakes of the situation or the jeopardy or the loss of Thorna. So you were able to balance out the different points of view and tell multiple stories within one fight scene, which allowed me to make the space to give the audience those pauses. But I I also really wanted it to feel about survival, and I think so sometimes with action you can lose those stakes, you can lose that jeopardy. And I think particularly with women in action, there's sometimes like um a fear about showing a punch actually landing a bruise, you know. But I think the only way you can really feel empowered is to see the cost of being in a real fight and see somebody persevere and win out at the end, and making sure those moments are played out properly gives the audience the biggest thrill, right?

Because they're really not sure if they're gonna make it or not, and that then allows you to connect to that emotionality of the loss of the teacher and the danger that they're in, and that allows you to really be with them when they're being so violent because you want them to survive, you know.

[37:03] Robert Peterpaul: Yes, and it's all authentic. I mean, my wife again comes from the dance world, so she was laughing but also appreciating uh the even like the razor blade in in the the point. Just because it it all actually probably uh if this was a real story and happening, you know, would happen because that that like that's what a ballerina might do. All this is such a massive undertaking though. And I wonder how are you kind to yourself throughout the this process and the long shoot days, Vicky. I'm guessing that can fall to the wayside sometimes, and I'm just curious about how yeah, it is a challenge because you work very long hours um and it becomes your entire life, so it's very you lose all balance outside of it, probably. I think I'm very fortunate that my husband and I do it together.

[37:48] vicky jewson: Um, so he takes exceptionally good care of me when I'm shooting. Um, and he also takes good care of the crew because he's a producer, uh, he likes to create a culture of looking after everyone, and he will in our days off or afternoons off, he will cook a big roast chicken and he will invite people over and he will create this feeling of family. So our apartment became we always make sure when we're away, we book a big enough place that we can have people over, and we he particularly he looks after the heads of department, he makes them feel cared for like brothers or sisters or aunties or aunts, and I think that helps you then make sure that you're looking after yourself because it's important to feel loved in those environments. I think that's food is love.

[38:38] Robert Peterpaul: That's what he does, yeah.

[38:40] vicky jewson: And he used to be a chef, that's was his original life.

[38:44] Robert Peterpaul: Smart.

[38:48] vicky jewson: That's that smart. Very very handy. Um but I mean create that together and um it's again it's about that safe space. And I I think something that I've maybe learnt through this one because it has been a marathon is to go on a few more dog walks, do morning yoga. I I slightly slipped my disc at the end of the movie.

[39:10] Robert Peterpaul: Oh no.

[39:11] vicky jewson: Immeasurable pain and that was because I had pushed myself too hard. And I've since then taken in a on a practice of doing yoga regularly in the mornings and just taking that time for myself to kind of reset myself and breath work and all of that and I am trying to make it more part of my life now, you know I'm glad because it is such a double-edged sword when you're in this space and you're busy creative people, but then when you don't take care of yourself and something like that happens, I know the stress of just being like, I have to do so many things but I can't move and you're sort of forced to just be still and it yeah it can be incredibly hard. But I want you to go and and enjoy your celebratory day.

[39:51] Robert Peterpaul: So I would love if we could just wrap up with sort of a flash round game that I'm calling lethal kindness. And basically I'm gonna throw out a sentence that has to do with kindness and the film a little bit and you just quickly finish it with the first thing that pops into your head.

[40:08] vicky jewson: Okay.

[40:09] Robert Peterpaul: Okay. This should be fun.

[40:10] vicky jewson: Thanks so I hope I don't say something random and weird.

[40:13] Robert Peterpaul: R I mean you're meeting me now so you could probably random and weird is is my brand, Vicky.

[40:18] vicky jewson: Okay.

[40:19] Robert Peterpaul: In my downtime on set, I usually read romance novels.

[40:25] vicky jewson: Oh okay, I know it's a flash round, but is there one you've read recently that you want to shout out?

[40:29] vicky jewson: I'm a big reader. Allie Hazelwood, The Bride.

[40:34] Robert Peterpaul: Oh.

[40:35] vicky jewson: Allie Hazelwood's amazing. She's like a um, she's like a brain, she does research papers on brain science. She's a scientist, and then she writes romance novels just on the side, you know. But they're all really empowered women, so it's romance novels where the woman is taking charge, which I love.

[40:51] Robert Peterpaul: I like that.

[40:52] vicky jewson: And it's also, you know, reading about love in these times, yeah. I think you can't go wrong, because we need a little love.

[40:57] Robert Peterpaul: Okay. My favorite type of collaborators are kind people.

[41:03] vicky jewson: Oh perfect.

[41:05] Robert Peterpaul: The toughest action sequence to film in this movie was The Bar Fight.

[41:11] vicky jewson: Oh, it's so good though. Everybody, please watch it.

[41:14] Robert Peterpaul: An act of kindness from one of my stars was knitting.

[41:20] vicky jewson: Uma gave out knitting needles to everybody to create calm and kindness on set.

[41:26] Robert Peterpaul: That is a tangible way to create it.

[41:28] vicky jewson: Okay. Kindness in tough moments on set looks like giving people a break when they need it.

[41:38] Robert Peterpaul: Cutting people slack.

[41:39] vicky jewson: I love that.

[41:39] Robert Peterpaul: Well, you win this round round up game. I don't know what you win, but you win.

[41:42] vicky jewson: You know what you win? You win an amazing movie out now. Everybody, please go stream. Pretty Lethal. Just to end our time together. I would love if you could share a tangible kindness tip, Vicky.

[41:54] vicky jewson: So I love to ask my guests something you would like everybody out there listening to do on their own corner of the world to try and make the world a little better.

[42:03] vicky jewson: Uh, the next time somebody contacts you and asks you for help, introducing them to somebody or meeting them for a coffee, say yes.

[42:13] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, that's such a good one. No one said that before. But that's a it goes back to you building community, Vicky.

[42:18] vicky jewson: Well, thank you so much for that and just taking the time to be here today. I know it's a special day, and I've loved getting to meet you. I'm a big fan of you now, and I just wish you so much success on this movie and everything going forward.

[42:29] vicky jewson: Thank you.

[42:30] Robert Peterpaul: Thank you.

[42:30] vicky jewson: It's been a real pleasure to talk about it with you.

[42:32] Robert Peterpaul: Thanks so much.

[42:33] vicky jewson: Thank you for being you.

[42:36] Robert Peterpaul: Thanks for the message of kindness. It's definitely it's the way forward.

[42:41] vicky jewson: Until next time, remember, everything is gonna be a okay.