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[0:00] Kate Baldwin: This is Kate Baldwin, and you're listening to The Art of Kindness.

[0:10] Robert Peterpaul: Hello, beautiful people. Welcome to The Art of Kindness, where we have compassionate conversations with artists from all areas of the entertainment industry who are using their voice to spread joy and make this big spinning planet in the universe a better place to be. I'm Robert Peterpaul, and I'm so glad you're here.

[0:39] Robert Peterpaul: Hello, friends. Thank you for the kindness of pressing play. We're going to bask in the beautiful light of one of my favorite Broadway performers of all time. In the name of an incredible cause, calling in today, we have the luminous Kate Baldwin. Kate Baldwin is one of the greats. A two-time Tony and four-time Drama Desk Award nominee, celebrated for her stunning, velvety performances on Broadway, in concert, and on screen. After traveling to the big city from the Midwest, Kate's breakout role was in Finian's Rainbow, earning her a Tony, Drama Desk, and Outer Critics Circle nomination. She went on to star as Irene Molloy in Hello, Dolly! alongside Bette Midler, which we talk about. She's also originated roles in blockbuster productions like Big Fish, which I think was ahead of its time.

It was such an underratedly gorgeous musical. And honestly, the story of Big Fish is just one of my favorites. I love it. Beyond Broadway, Kate has lit up stages across the country in shows like The King and I, The Bridges of Madison County, and 42nd Street. She's performed with major symphonies in legendary venues like Lincoln Center and the Kennedy Center. You may also have caught Kate shimmering on screen in Law & Order: SVU, multiple PBS specials, and now The Gilded Age. Kate is a 2023 Chicago/Midwest Emmy nominee alongside partners at HMS Media for creating and producing Broadway Comes Home, a love letter to her hometown of Milwaukee. And speaking of giving back, she is a proud advisory board member for the Obie-winning nonprofit Maestra Music, which provides support, visibility, and community for the women and non-binary people who make music in musical theater.

They put the music in musical in musical theater. On Monday, March 31st at Sony Music Hall, Kate will host Maestra's fundraising concert Amplify 2025 alongside our friend L. Morgan Lee. Please head to maestramusic.org/amplify to learn more. That's maestramusic.org/amplify. You can also find that link in our show notes. You may recall that we actually had on Jay Harrison Gee, we've had Jasmine Amy Rogers, who's now lighting up the stage as Betty Boop herself. The list goes on and on. And I think this is such a fantastic organization, so please show your support even if you cannot attend this upcoming event. Also, please join our kindness community on Instagram at Art of Kindness Pod and at Robert Peterpaul. Oh, this was just one of my favorite conversations to date. I love Kate to date. I love Kate. That kind of rhymes. Now, without further ado, please enjoy the kind Kate Baldwin.

[4:00] Kate Baldwin: Hello.

[4:01] Robert Peterpaul: Hi Kate, how are you?

[4:04] Kate Baldwin: Hi, I'm so good. How are you?

[4:06] Robert Peterpaul: I'm well.

[4:06] Kate Baldwin: I was just watching a little video segment that you did for our morning talk show. Forgive me, I can't remember the name of the show.

[4:14] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, that's okay.

[4:15] Kate Baldwin: I blacked out too. It was like an ABC affiliate in Connecticut.

[4:20] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[4:21] Kate Baldwin: Yeah, in Connecticut. Is that where you are now in Connecticut?

[4:23] Robert Peterpaul: It is, and we have a lot of mutual friends. I've heard the most lovely things about you, besides being a huge fan of you, obviously, I should say.

[4:30] Kate Baldwin: So nice.

[4:30] Robert Peterpaul: But yeah, you work at ACT a lot, and I've done a ton of shows there, right in Richfield. I know Brian Perry and Dan Levine. I've known Dan Levine for 26 years.

[4:40] Kate Baldwin: Oh my gosh, yeah, what a guy.

[4:42] Robert Peterpaul: Oh my gosh. My first show in New York City was 26 years ago this month, and Dan Levine was in it.

[4:47] Kate Baldwin: Congratulations.

[4:48] Robert Peterpaul: It was called Babes in Arms, and we were...

[4:50] Kate Baldwin: Oh yeah.

[4:51] Robert Peterpaul: He's talked about that. And I thought, did you end up doing a concert series there? Or did I make that up?

[4:55] Kate Baldwin: Yes, that's right. I did a concert with Brian and we sang "Suddenly, Seymour." And it's so annoying with him because first of all, he's gorgeous. What a genius. Secondly, he can play the piano like that. And then third, he can actually really sing. And you're just like, "Yeah." How can all of this be in one person?

[5:12] Robert Peterpaul: It's just a good one.

[5:13] Kate Baldwin: And it's a power couple. And they have chickens. I'm like, they're just living in children. I remember on the second floor of their house, there's some beautiful garden room that I slept over one night. It was just, it was hell.

[5:25] Robert Peterpaul: Oh my gosh. I love that. Well, if you ever do end up working there for some other reason, they'll bring you fresh eggs every day. You just put a little request in and they're on your dressing room table.

[5:34] Kate Baldwin: That's good because it costs a lot now.

[5:37] Robert Peterpaul: I know.

[5:38] Kate Baldwin: It's why. Okay. But I gotta say, it is so amazing to meet you. I'm such a fan, I think, not only of your talents, but you just have this sort of you're wrapped in this grace and kindness, and you're very like cashmere. I can't explain it, but the way you navigate, and I think you're wearing cashmere. That's what I call it. The way you navigate this industry is just so beautiful from an outsider looking on. And you know, again, I've heard from so many mutual friends that you're just such a lovely person, and everyone has nothing but kind things to say about you. So, you know, as we waltz down the yellow brick road of kindness, I just want to just start by bowing down.

[6:16] Kate Baldwin: Oh, you're so kind. No need to bow because I'll just get down there with you. I'm so thrilled to be here. As I said, I was watching your interviews earlier and all of the shiny people that you've had on this incredible podcast. And what a wonderful message to be putting out into the world. And I'm a big fan of all the work that you're doing, so I'm thrilled to do that.

[6:33] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, thank you. That's so sweet. Well, now that we're exchanging compliments, which I really appreciate, and I'll take that in. I'm really bad at it, Kate. So I need to know how are you at receiving compliments? What have you learned there from over years of getting tons of that?

[6:47] Kate Baldwin: Um, I'm sure. You know what I'm gonna say? And it's gonna I hope it puts you at ease. The compliment is more about the person giving the compliment than it is about the person receiving it. Have you ever heard that before?

[6:57] Robert Peterpaul: Yes, I love that.

[6:59] Kate Baldwin: And the same thing goes for negative feedback as well. It's more about the person who is speaking and sharing the information or sharing their thoughts and opinions than it is about actually the person who they're directing it at.

[7:12] Robert Peterpaul: Oh my god, have you ever had Jen Kalella on this podcast?

[7:15] Kate Baldwin: You gotta have her next.

[7:16] Robert Peterpaul: I've been so close, and you're like the tenth person to say that. I think for whatever reason, there's like the publicist gate sometimes if she's just not available. So I but I've been trying to do that. I mean, Jen, you I mean because please, I would love that.

[7:30] Kate Baldwin: She lives by that as well. And I think the best advice I ever got was don't take it personally, whether it's a note on your singing or your acting or how a person treats you in the real world, the real world and then the acting world. But I think taking a compliment is hard to do because I don't know, we grow up wanting to be self-effacing. We struggle in this business often to be to have the outset, and I do have the outset, nobody's better than me, I'm not better than anybody else. You know what I mean? Where we're all in this together. Musical theater is perhaps the most collaborative art form. I can't think of another one that is as collaborative, relies on as many people having a say in what you're creating together.

So communication is very important. And so therefore trust is very important. But to come out and to give somebody a compliment or to say, "I really like what you're doing, I see you, I hear you," means the world, especially from someone who is doing the kind of work and creation that I admire too. So yeah, I the only thing I think about with compliments is it tells me something about the person who's giving it.

[8:53] Robert Peterpaul: I love that little insider's secret. Everybody write that down. Remember it. Ingest it into your brain. And yeah, I just admire so many things about you. I mean, I could spend this whole time listing them off, you know. So I'll rein myself in and I think ask you instead for context. What would you say, Kate, is your definition of kindness, and how do you think it's changed over the years as a gal from the Midwest to then going to a big city? I imagine you saw maybe different forms of kindness. Well, just love your thoughts there.

[9:24] Kate Baldwin: Oh, that's so interesting. Because when I consider where I'm from, which is I was born outside of Chicago and raised in a suburb of Milwaukee, Wisconsin. And I think now I've lived on the East Coast for 26 years. So and I'm 49. So that's over half my life has just been spent on this coast. But look at me and listen to me. I'm a Midwesterner through and through, right? Like, I can't help, I can't escape my Midwestern roots. And there is this perception in our country that Midwesterners are salt of the earth, trustworthy, no BS, kind, you know, that kind of thing. And I definitely felt that, you know, growing up. There are people who will, you know.

[10:15] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, I thought you were gonna dispel that.

[10:16] Kate Baldwin: Oh, I'm not gonna do that.

[10:17] Robert Peterpaul: I'm not gonna dispel it.

[10:18] Kate Baldwin: But I am gonna say, when I was considering moving to the East Coast, my friends from the Midwest, my family from the West were worried about the meanness of the East Coast, the competitiveness. Just because we're all so close together and so packed in here on the East Coast, you know.

[10:36] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[10:36] Kate Baldwin: The population density is massive. My husband's family is from Canada. Do you know that the population of Canada is the same as the population of California? But they're just all spread out. So if you think about that, and they're kind people, Canadians. They don't have to deal with each other. They don't really. That's probably why. They don't have to compete for a space to get on the subway, a space to get in the line to buy coffee, you know what I mean?

[11:04] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, it's wild.

[11:08] Kate Baldwin: But what I found moving to New York City was a different kind of kindness, a willingness to help outsiders, a willingness to help tourists. I can't tell you how many people now, and now that I've been there 26 years, come up to me and ask for directions, and I'm so flattered that they do, or look to me with, you know, with on the subway, like where I don't know where I'm going. Can you know, and can you help me? There were extraordinarily kind people when I moved here in 1999 and didn't know anything about where I was going, what I was doing. And especially theater people within the theater community who just saw this girl who was like, "What who am I, what am I?" And my friend Aaron Dilley literally would take me by the hand and say, "You're coming with me, let's go."

So there is a version of kindness in a big city that I hold above all else, because it would be so easy to pass by somebody in need. It would be so easy to say, "I didn't see them, I didn't hear them." But for the people who do, I think when you come back to the definition of kindness, I think it's seeing, being present, seeing a person, hearing a person, being present with them in this moment. That's what I think it is.

[12:24] Robert Peterpaul: I think that's so beautiful. And it comes with a challenge, right? Because not everybody feels they're being seen the same way. I guess to say you could think you're seeing someone, but it might not actually be perceived that way because of how they were brought up. So your kindness, it's sort of like what I've learned during this podcast is kindness is so personal. So it's very interesting. Like it's not all puppies and rainbows. There's a little bit underneath it. Smiling at somebody might be a kindness, but to somebody else it might be offensive in a way. So I love that you say just seeing people for who they are. I have a friend who, uh, he knows this, he is not nice, but he is kind. Isn't that fascinating? They're not the same thing.

[13:06] Kate Baldwin: Yeah.

[13:07] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. And I think New York can speak to that a little bit. It's like very go, go, go, but then the second someone trips on the sidewalk, it's like there's 10 people there stopping to help them, you know, get up.

[13:16] Kate Baldwin: Who will be there to help?

[13:17] Robert Peterpaul: Right, exactly. Who will extend themselves to help you when it's in need, you know, and there's it was just the why is this flashing in my head.

[13:26] Kate Baldwin: My sister-in-law, who is from Ohio, really Midwestern. Oh hi, yo. Sorry, that's a really bad joke. I used to make as a tour guide. Thank you. No one's ever laughed at it. I love it. I've heard it before, actually. Um, talk to her daughter, my niece, who was selling Girl Scout cookies. Oh, I got it, must have been six years ago or something. And she gave me the form to take around to the cast that I was in at the time. And we ordered a lot, a lot of cookies. Oh, yeah, Samoa's oh, so good. And my sister-in-law got the order back, and it was so huge that she didn't believe it. She was like, "Are you guys just being nice?" I said, "No, no, we're not just being nice." So the idea of being nice to me has a double-edged kind of sword, kind of like a connotation there.

Like, oh, they're just being nice. You know, you can be nice. And isn't it Sondheim who says nice is different than good? Yep. In Into the Woods. I don't have any answers. I'm just asking. I'm just the true legend. No, that's what we're here for. Just nobody has the answers. I just love learning from people like yourself that have been a part of these amazing sort of iconic things. And another thing I appreciate about you is you're such a performer's performer. I mean, every time I turn around you're doing something different. I think you did an immersive show this winter. You know, you'll do a regional show, a concert, then a Broadway show. I mean, it's just so clear and your passion always shines through.

So I love the perspectives that you're giving. And I do think to your point theater people, we love food. So I mean the kindness there is we're always going to show up, we're gonna order those Girl Scout cookies. We're gonna eat in costume even though we shouldn't and you know it's just the thing. That's what I said to my sister-in-law is like, "Oh, I'm not sure that you've had much experience with actors like we eat the cookies like we want the cookies like and Girl Scout cookies are great. Like why wouldn't we?" I know and there's Girl Scout ice cream. But anyway, maybe you could give that. Yes, there is. There's some Samoa's ice cream. I was curious though, like speaking of maybe as a parent you can provide that to have a little clunky transition here.

And I wonder if you saw your definition of kindness change once you became a mom because I imagine the self-kindness maybe goes out the window at some point and it's like you're putting this other beautiful little being before yourself.

[15:48] Kate Baldwin: Yeah. I think my brother-in-law from Canada was just here all weekend, and he said, "I was watching you and looking at how noticing how patient you are." And I was like, right, I don't think I was as patient 13 years ago when I had a little baby. And now 14, he's almost 14. But I think parenthood teaches you patience, patience with yourself, patience with another person as they're learning something, patience with the world, and just kind of saying, okay, well, maybe this task won't get done today, or maybe that didn't happen the way I would have liked it to have happened, right? So the patience of the whole, you know, giving another person a chance, giving yourself the kindness to succeed or fail, you know, that acceptance.

I think parenthood teaches you acceptance of that's an important lesson. And then the acceptance that it will all change. Like just when you figure out how to deal with a two-year-old who loves trains, all of a sudden he's four, and you know, and it's it now.

[17:05] Robert Peterpaul: No, totally. And my nanny always says the only constant is change. And so it's like accepting that. And then I love that you bring up patience because my nanny also says, "Hi nanny, she's probably listening. Watch what comes into the void, you know." And if you're patient, you can have those voids, you can have those special moments. I mean, think about when you're on stage, it's like the moments between that actually make things different. So allowing yourself to have that in this world where the moments between are filled with us picking up our phones, it's special, it's different. You know, I like that you bring that up.

[17:36] Kate Baldwin: I agree. And I remember early on in my New York career, so maybe I was twenty-five, twenty-six years old. I made one of the dearest friends I'll ever have. His name is Jeff Talbot, and he's about 10 years older than I am. So if I was 25, he was 35. He's an actor and a playwright. And I remember getting really down about an audition that didn't go my way, and feeling hungry for the next job opportunity, and it wasn't coming fast enough. I didn't have patience, I didn't have that kindness towards myself to look at the void and say it's okay. And he said, "You know, Kate, your life is what happens in between. It still happens, even though you're in between jobs. It's not like you only live when you're working. You can create as much of a life between those jobs that feel so life affirming, especially if you're going from, you know, short-lived project to short-lived project, as hello, my career has been short, you know, very short-lived things."

[18:41] Robert Peterpaul: And then living on, like I think about Big Fish.

[18:44] Kate Baldwin: Oh, you're so right. Big Fish has had this incredible expanse overhead of its time. It had projections. Like I think if it had come out now, or like around the first season, like when you think about it, the stuff that was being done in that show was not really being done.

[19:01] Robert Peterpaul: I love that. It's such a special show.

[19:03] Kate Baldwin: Well, I'm so glad to hear you say that because it seems to have really found an audience in high school, universities, and community theater too. And Norbert Leo Butz, who played Edward Bloom, lives down the street from me here in Maplewood. So another reason to come to Maplewood as your house hunting.

[19:22] Robert Peterpaul: Yes. If I could plug.

[19:24] Kate Baldwin: Oh no, I would love that. My mom's boyfriend's son dated his daughter. There's like a weird connection there that I knew he was in Maplewood. Also, he's such a great person. I can't wait to run into him. But Norbert also says he's like, you know, of all the shows I've ever worked on, the young people know me for Big Fish. That's and it was only it was such a brief time on Broadway. But it has had this life beyond. And especially that cast recording has had a life beyond. So I've zoomed with just two high schools in Wisconsin where I'm from, this, you know, since the beginning of the new year, who are doing Big Fish this year.

[20:01] Robert Peterpaul: And that's so kind of you.

[20:02] Kate Baldwin: Oh my god, it's fun for me because I get to share a little bit of what I know and then find out from them how they perceive it and what their questions are and how they react to it. I just wish I was smart enough to write and take notes or write it down so that I could share it with the authors because I feel like it would be fuel for Andrew Lippa and John August, who were the original creators of the story, of the musical, and just to see what kind of impact it has, you know, to in real time. I need I'm trying to pitch it as a movie musical because I could like see it being such a great I mean, obviously it was a movie, but so great on film. The music is just insane.

[20:39] Robert Peterpaul: Right, the music is so gorgeous.

[20:41] Kate Baldwin: I agree with you. And the Tim Burton film is so Tim Burton-y, and so to sort of like sort of take it away from that amazing film with Tim Burton and Albert Finney and you and Morton and no not you and Morton, sorry, you and McGregor.

[20:58] Robert Peterpaul: Ron Ewan.

[20:59] Kate Baldwin: You McGregor, yeah. Why is you and Morton on my mind? Um and Jessica Lange and we can unpack that later.

[21:04] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[21:05] Kate Baldwin: Oh, yeah, Jessica Lange. And you have such a Lange quality too. I mean, I could spend this whole time geeking out about Big Fish. Like we played "Time Stops," it was on the playlist at our wedding. Like, "I Don't Need a Roof" makes me cry. And my grand and I will send it back and forth to each other and just like kind of like have a little moment through your voice. It's just like sending the song. So it's a very special show to me.

[21:26] Kate Baldwin: I think so too. And oftentimes when young women are, I've had young women who are playing the role of Sandra Bloom in college or university or community theater or something, ask about that song. And I've also had master classes where they'll bring in that song and want to coach it. And the mistake most people make with it is they think it's a sad song because when you listen to it, it just pulls at your heartstrings, right? But I always say this is not a sad song. This is a song that is about resilience and about showing up for the person you love in their moment of need, right? And being that strength for them as they face what is devastating, the knowledge that they will die soon.

[22:10] Robert Peterpaul: So you made her such a strong character.

[22:12] Kate Baldwin: I mean that you character Sandra was sort of like the main support beam in the house that was Big Fish.

[22:19] Robert Peterpaul: That's right.

[22:20] Kate Baldwin: You know, while these other people got to kind of be zany and fly around. So I love that. And I wonder, actually, first of all, did you see Renee Rapp sing "I Don't Need a Roof"?

[22:28] Robert Peterpaul: No, but I heard about it.

[22:28] Kate Baldwin: I know she won a Jimmy Award for singing it. I'll send you the clip. It's she is it's phenomenal. I mean, in her own way.

[22:35] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[22:36] Kate Baldwin: And it makes me wonder too, when you're teaching these classes, I think one of the things I held on to that you said in an interview once, not to quote you to you, but I'm gonna do it.

[22:43] Robert Peterpaul: Oh god.

[22:43] Kate Baldwin: I guarantee you said it was you said something like perfect isn't a thing.

[22:47] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[22:47] Kate Baldwin: And I wonder as you're teaching these younger students. I know myself, as you know, an auditioner, I'll call myself. Yeah, it's like it's very hard to release perfection because you want to be in the moment, but then you know, you'll watch yourself tape back and you're like, I also want to hit the notes perfectly and sound great. And of course, storytelling comes first. So I just wonder what's your relationship like with perfection as someone who seemingly has the perfect voice.

[23:11] Kate Baldwin: Oh my god. I didn't know we were going back to voice. Um, it's interesting because I want to circle back to something you said at the very beginning of this interview, which was like three hours ago.

[23:24] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, no.

[23:25] Kate Baldwin: I know, I know. I'm like, I've 87,000 questions for you, and I'm just like, we can go down rabbit holes on it. And I love it. I will go toe-to-toe for you. I will totally, totally will. But you talked about how sometimes how you are perceived is not what you thought you were putting out there. And so much of the work that I've done recently is to try to get really clear with myself, what I think I'm projecting, and is that actually landing? Not on stage, because on stage I feel pretty good about what I'm supposed to do, but in real life, in like my family relationships, um, is what I'm saying coming across the way I mean it too? Are my intentions clear? And it goes back to that idea of feedback of like a compliment too, of like it's more about the person and how they receive the message. Is the message getting through?

[24:18] Robert Peterpaul: So um, how does that relate to what I was just about to say?

[24:21] Kate Baldwin: Oh, it's really about um, are your intentions as a storyteller coming through? Is the message being felt, is the message being understood? It's not about here's my perfect voice, let me show off for you and make you, you know, and make you go, wow, what a great singer. It's about did I make you feel something? Did the message get to you? Did the did the author's intentions hit you? And it's so hard for people who are, you know, maybe not as practiced as you and I are to identify really how they're feeling. Do you know most people can only identify like five emotions?

[25:03] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, that's wild.

[25:04] Kate Baldwin: I think I have read that. I mean, and it's weird too because they're so complex, right? I mean, I know I'm a weird Muppet for whatever family trauma I've had that, and let's unpack that right now. No, that my legs are crossed. That whenever I get really bad news and I'm delivering bad news, I like smile because I hold my tension in my cheeks. And if I did that in an audition, the casting directors would be like, that person's insane and that's what are you doing? Like, don't smile there, you know.

[25:29] Robert Peterpaul: 100%.

[25:30] Kate Baldwin: 100%. That's what's real for me. So it's interesting what you're saying, like to be able to unpack that and know yourself enough to say, okay, but would the character smile there? Right. Whatever it is. It's like it's you, it's tension and it's and for me too, I have a similar thing with nerves. You know, I will default to that, even if I'm like lifting weights or something, I'm like smiling. Like, oh, I've seen that at the joke. Yeah, I'm just trying to like get through it. You know, if I pretend to myself that I'm gonna get through it, then I'll convince myself. Or if I convince myself that a job is not hard, that this song is not hard, it's really it's how you kind of talk to yourself, right?

[26:12] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, that self-talk and self-kindness. And I think we could get into that eventually, and I want to hit make sure we talk about Maestra too and the wonderful work you're doing with them. But to kind of skip over your career for a bit, I made up your very own game, and I haven't played this game ever, and I probably should have called it like Bloomin' with Sandra Bloom over the rainbow. I don't know. But it's called Curtain Call for Kindness. And basically we have a lot of ground to cover. So I'm gonna throw out one of your many Broadway credits, and you just tell me the first thing that comes to your mind, a kind aspect of that production. So what's the kindest thing you remember from that show?

[26:50] Robert Peterpaul: Okay.

[26:51] Kate Baldwin: Okay, are you ready?

[26:52] Robert Peterpaul: I'm ready.

[26:53] Kate Baldwin: Okay, I didn't make up a theme song.

[26:55] Robert Peterpaul: Okay.

[26:56] Kate Baldwin: It's gonna swing out.

[27:02] Robert Peterpaul: As we roam over your career.

[27:05] Kate Baldwin: The Full Monty.

[27:09] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, the kindness of that stage manager who was so patient.

[27:12] Kate Baldwin: No, the kindness of the dance captain, Dennis Jones. I showed up on the very first day. I was a swing. I was supposed to learn choreography. I thought I was only gonna be learning music that day. So I wore a cute dress and flip-flops. Oh lo and behold, we're gonna talk about flip-flops. Yeah. So he teaches me the cha-cha, and I'm wearing flip-flops, and he never said, okay, what are you doing? He was very kind about it, and I love him to this day. Actually, in fact, I gotta tell him that. I'm gonna talk to him later on this.

[27:40] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, I love that. Oh, that's a great kindness tip. Tell the people you love them that you love them.

[27:44] Kate Baldwin: And I did one time blag out at Ripley Greer for a callback for like, I think it was like the Legally Blonde tour or something. But it was Warner Emmett, you know? Yeah. And they don't dance. And so I was I same thing. I walk in, everyone's wearing Lululemon. I did make I blacked out, I made up a story. I was like, my dance bag was stolen, and I ran to HM down the street, and I came back with like a brand new sneakers, which you know, then it did not go my way. I was like, But I love that story.

[28:09] Robert Peterpaul: Being isn't being a swing one of the hardest jobs in the industry?

[28:13] Kate Baldwin: I mean, it makes you feel like you could do a lot of it. I don't know how many women there are in Full Monty, but it's not a big ensemble show. But every role covers another show, uh covers another role. So if say Annie Golden or Emily Skinner or were out, then another person would move into their part, and that's when another person move into that first person's part, and then I would go on as a swing. So as a swing, uh I had a role. I had uh lines and a vocal part and a little choreography moment, and um I think I only tripped on the set three times. I'll say that's that's peachy.

[28:54] Robert Peterpaul: Like a like a butt.

[28:55] Kate Baldwin: And the best part about uh Full Monty was I got to watch it half the time and be in it half the time that I was there.

[28:55] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, that's fun.

[28:55] Kate Baldwin: I got to watch that first that opening number that is called Scrap, written by David Yazbeck, and I think Terrence McNally probably had something to do with it too, but I'll give all the credits to David Yazbek. That's one of the best opening numbers of a musical.

[29:11] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, I agree.

[29:15] Kate Baldwin: It establishes everything so well. I think it that's such a beautiful show.

[29:20] Robert Peterpaul: I think so too. I think it's completely underrated. I think Encore should do it. I think it should have a big ass revival.

[29:27] Kate Baldwin: You heard it here first. A big ass revival.

[29:29] Robert Peterpaul: Yes, like a big ass rock.

[29:32] Kate Baldwin: Yeah, it could be it could even be gender swap. That could be fun.

[29:35] Robert Peterpaul: Sure, why not?

[29:36] Kate Baldwin: Yeah. But I like the way like it's like a you know, the more emotional male friendships. You don't see that a lot in shows either. So I I appreciate a lot of things about that show. I also love I'm a huge fan of Thoroughly Modern Millie.

[29:47] Robert Peterpaul: I was obsessed with the movie as a kid.

[29:49] Kate Baldwin: I like used to go to Blockbuster and say, Do you have any new Julie Andrews movies? And then I'd be like, Can you leave? You were just here an hour ago.

[29:54] Robert Peterpaul: But why do you sound like Carol Channing when you say that.

[29:59] Kate Baldwin: I know, right? I don't know if I'm Carol Channing.

[30:04] Robert Peterpaul: I don't know.

[30:05] Kate Baldwin: You just I think that you just gotta frag your voice and see what happens. But what a special person, as are you, and this show. What's the first thing that comes to mind when you think about Thoroughly Modern Millie?

[30:11] Robert Peterpaul: Thoroughly Modern Millie.

[30:16] Kate Baldwin: Oh my God. The first thing that comes to mind is us, we did it um in La Jolla, California in the year 2000, um, before Broadway. So it didn't land on Broadway until 2002. And when we were in La Jolla, California, it I I was, what was I? I was 25 years old. It was the first time I had been in a show since the very beginning. And I thought, I don't know why I thought this. When I was young, I thought everybody knew it, everybody else knew what they were doing. And now in retrospect, I realized they were just making it up as they went along too. Our producers, our directors, our director, our writer, uh the two writers, Jeannie Tizzori and Dick Scanlan, two of the smartest people you'll find in show business.

Um Rob Ashford was a brand new choreographer. He had just been assisting Kathleen Marshall on a bunch of things, and he had been the ensemble of some Broadway shows, uh, and then Dance Captain, and then had moved up. So everybody was like kind of at the beginning. It had this feeling of like a bunch of like uh new, um uh untested uh people trying to figure it out together. And um so when I look back on it now, I look back on it with kindness. At the time, I thought, well, how come no one knows what they're doing? Aren't these aren't they the adults in the room? Shouldn't they, shouldn't they know where we're going and where we're headed? And what I realized now is we were all just mm-ming it up, collaborating, making it up.

And the trust that has to happen within those uh working relationships is huge. So they trusted me. I trusted them. We got to Broadway. Thoroughly Modern Millie won a Tony Award. It you know, it launched careers. I mean, Sutton Foster became Sutton Foster. We watched it all happen.

[32:04] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, yeah. And isn't there lore surrounding that? Uh like she was she was the standby or something. Am I making this up?

[32:10] Kate Baldwin: Yeah.

[32:10] Robert Peterpaul: Understudy. And then something happened and she ended up taking over the role. I think that's such a cool story.

[32:14] Kate Baldwin: Yeah. And to what I was there and I watched it all happen. And um, and who springs to mind is our stage manager, our stage manager again. I'll go back to the stage manager who sort of held us all together. Bonnie Becker, she really held us all together. Alliteration, BB. Yeah. And Rob Ashford, who took care of the ensemble because he had just come from the ensemble and he took care of the rest of us. He would, you know, come over to us and oh, I also remember Darren Lee. Darren Lee was in the ensemble with us, and he was uh, and he still is a star dancer, a star actor, story choreographer. And I remember him saying, because I was in the ensemble. I remember him saying, make a show every night that you want to do, that you look forward to doing.

Give yourself a little, I guess what the kids would call these days, Easter eggs. Something to look forward to in each scene that you get to do. And I always thought, oh, that's great advice, as opposed to just like I'm in the background, you know, I I'm not, I'm not Millie, I'm not Jimmy, I'm not, you know, in the forefront. No, but give yourself a life to on stage that that will just make the show that much richer. So that was a great kindness that he that he gave all the rest of us. He said, make it into something you look forward to. Make your show go.

[33:26] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, I think that's beautiful. And then monitor yourself if you're me, because I know then I'll start doing bits on bits and it's like it's actually not your moment and you're having too much fun with your your co-star here, your castmate in the background. There's like a whole bit at the strip club and Kinky Boots that I yeah probably should have reined in a little bit. Anyway, that's a wonderful okay Finian's Rainbow what comes to mind with that special show.

[33:46] Kate Baldwin: Oh Shine Jackson. Shine Jackson comes to mind because he had been a lead on Broadway before and I hadn't so I got hit with the publicity machine. I got hit with uh having needing clothes to show up at interviews, uh morning talk shows, uh red carpet things and he like my friend uh held me by the hand and said you got this let's figure this out together and he put his arm around me figuratively and literally and just held me up and I'm forever grateful to him for his kindness. And then on stage he's a dream. I mean who can do what he can do? My God. I think he uh I say to him all the time come back to Broadway do whatever part you want like the world is your oyster like just just say what you want to do and people will do it. I mean come on.

[34:36] Kate Baldwin: I love that I would have seen, I would have watched the Sweeney with you too. I think that would have been really special.

[34:41] Robert Peterpaul: Well maybe we'll do it.

[34:42] Kate Baldwin: I don't know, let's put it out there. I love it.

[34:46] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, you're so right. He's such a good actor and he's so present and open in his life. He just, he doesn't hold back and he just, um, and he has, and he's really funny.

[35:01] Kate Baldwin: I don't, I think because he's so beautiful, people don't necessarily think that he'll be as funny as he is or as good of an actor as he is. And he's just, he's really stellar.

[35:13] Kate Baldwin: I mean, I wish he would come back and do a Broadway show. I tell him all the time, I don't care what it is, just come back and do it.

[35:18] Robert Peterpaul: Oh I hope so. And he's another one people always tell me recommend as a guest. They're like he's such a kind person. So it makes sense that you would bring him up there.

[35:25] Kate Baldwin: He's very real let's manifest that show with you two ASAP. And also maybe a Big Fish revival. I think we talked about Big Fish, but what comes to mind there? I know you've said that was like a really kind and positive experience for you overall.

[35:36] Robert Peterpaul: I love that I would have seen I would have watched the Sweeney with you too. I think that would have been really special.

[35:38] Kate Baldwin: Yeah it was because the character I got to play was the peacemaker, you know the person trying to hold it all together. And so I kind of I kind of got that as well. Um when I think about Big Fish though I think about Andrew Lippa and I think about I Don't Need a Roof and the very first time I ever heard that song um what you may not know about Andrew is that he's a terrific actor and singer as well. So I I remember hearing him he played it and sang it for me and I got so much information about how to do the song or how he felt about what what the audit what we should all take away from listening to that song from his performance. So I was like okay that is when I sort of discovered that writers are actors too that before an actor has come in and learned the part the writer has played every single role in that show and they have an idea in their mind of how it should go of what they want it to be. So I think if I think of Andrew and I think of Big Fish.

[36:41] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah I love that sometimes when I'm reading scripts I'll think like I'll type it out and pretend I'm I wrote it and then I'll be like, what would what did I want to convey when I'm writing this? I don't know. Sometimes maybe I did that once, K. I don't know what I'm talking about. But it's storytelling, it's all storytelling. It's what we do when we're five years old, and you know, dressing up and wrangling all the neighborhood kids to be in our show. I don't know. Was that me? Just me?

[37:01] Kate Baldwin: No, that was me. I was I made fake tickets. I made my parents sit down. And then I actually usually had no plan. My dad installed curtains in our basement with a drawstring. And I used to just open and close it to Broadway overtures, and I thought that was like so dramatic. And the audience was filled with my stuffed animals.

[37:16] Robert Peterpaul: So that that was me as well.

[37:18] Kate Baldwin: And then if anyone came over, I'm like, we're making a movie, where you know, we're we're doing something crazy.

[37:23] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[37:25] Kate Baldwin: For me, it was always costumes. Costumes are the most important thing. We had to figure that out first. Then the story will come later, but costumes are first.

[37:33] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, yeah. I don't think you're alone there. Well, speaking of costumes, you had some great ones in Hello, Dolly. What comes to mind with this production?

[37:41] Kate Baldwin: Oh I mean, Tony nomination also uh lead there. Yes. Wow, Hello, Dolly was by far the um the biggest, the most fun I've ever had on Broadway, the most uh surreal experience because when you hear an audience go nuts for Bette Midler when she comes out, um, there's nothing like it. There's just nothing, nothing like it.

[38:05] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[38:05] Kate Baldwin: And um I tell this story often. I wonder if she remembers. I remember in our first week of rehearsal, maybe not the first day, uh, but within that first week, Bette stood up in front of the entire ensemble, uh, the entire company. And I know now in retrospect that she had already been working her tail off. She already knew everything. She knew her dances, she knew her songs, she probably knew the script backwards and forwards already. Because she wanted to uh be perceived as somebody who had it, had the goods, could do it. And there's a reason why we were all clear. We all knew that our that our jobs were because her name was above the title, right? We all know. But she wasn't sure that we knew that.

But she stood up the first day and said, Hey, look, I've been my own boss for 50 years. And she's right. She had her own talk show, her own concert work, her own uh movies, her her albums, you name it. I I've had an opinion, I've had a say in every bit of of stuff that she that I've created. What she was trying to say is, I've been my own boss, and and usually the buck stops with me, but now I'm learning that there are other people. There is a director, there's a producer, there's a choreographer, there are other people here.

[39:26] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[39:26] Kate Baldwin: And and and they have as much of a say, if not more. And she said to the whole ensemble, look, you all dance better than I do. You all sing better than I do. And we were all like, mm-hmm. And she goes, but nobody's as funny as I am. But then she said, Give me a minute. Just give me a minute to catch up to you, because I'm working hard and I and I want to do you proud. I'm gonna catch up to you. Just be patient with me. I think she was worried that there would be people sitting in the back, you know, making comments about what dance steps she got wrong, or or any, or uh, or a note that didn't sound right. And did any of that ever happen? No, of course not. We we lifted her up. We wanted her to succeed.

[40:24] Kate Baldwin: He got sick, and so his understudy, Christian Dante White, was gonna go on for him for that performance that night. And so it was previews. So we were already in rehearsal, you know, changing some lighting. We weren't changing anything about the script because it's Hello, Dolly! But I think we're changing some a bit a little minor staging. So we learned that Gavin wasn't gonna come in for the evening show. So I saw Bette and I saw her watch the entire ensemble and all the rest of us flock to Christian, surround him and say, "What do you need? Do you need to go over that dance step again? Do you want to vocalize? Do you need a certain kind of fried chicken from down the street? Do you need throat coat?

I've got that in my dressing room. Do you need like how can we help you? Do you need to rehearse with a hat again?" And she saw everybody, you know, it was like, you know, the Daytona 500, like he was going into the pit and people were changing his wheels and giving him gas and making sure that his windshield wipers were clean so that he could go out and be the race car that he is. And I saw her go, "Oh, no one is here to sabotage anybody else. We're here to help each other and to make the best show we could possibly have." And we did, and he was remarkable, he was extraordinary, and I love telling that story, and I love that memory because that's to me that's what Broadway is. You know, you hear all these like backstage, like backstabby kind of stories that make for good TV shows, but not for real life.

Yeah, and no matter where anybody stands in those moments where a swing goes on or an understudy or something happens, everybody really does have each other's back because you're all sharing the same back, really, in a Broadway show and a Broadway company.

[42:10] Robert Peterpaul: I love that story. I'm such a Bette fan. Like I got the privilege of I wrote an article during Hocus Pocus 2, and I got to watch them film the musical scene and Hocus Pocus is like my favorite movie of all time.

[42:21] Kate Baldwin: Oh my god!

[42:22] Robert Peterpaul: Seeing her rehearse like with their jackets on, like you know, before they went onto the stage, and like you could tell she has that commitment. And I love that she just was like so comfortable enough that she could sort of like lay it all out there.

[42:28] Kate Baldwin: Yeah.

[42:33] Robert Peterpaul: Because I'm sure like anybody, especially if it was your first Broadway show, no matter who you are, yeah, you're on in a show with Bette Midler and someone like that. And of course, people were probably also feeling similarly to who's so accomplished. It's like to just say that, I mean, that's a great kindness to yourself and everybody else. So I love that story. We're all in this together, we're all in the trenches together, and I'll tell you too. I went to say have a good show to her on our very final performance. And she was in her dressing room getting her hair, her wig and her makeup done, and she had the script in front of her, and she was going over the script and going page by page, and you could see through it the little corners of the page were translucent where she had touched them so many times because that was part of her ritual was to look through the script every show before the show and make sure she knew what the lines were.

[43:28] Kate Baldwin: That was kind of her, I don't know, I'm putting words into her mouth, but it was kind of it was like a ritual. She did it every show.

[43:34] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[43:34] Kate Baldwin: And I was talking to myself, "What? We've done this show 550 times. She knows it, obviously she knows it. She's gonna get out there and she's gonna, you know, it's gonna be like being thrown out of a, you know, launched out of a cannon. She's extraordinary." But it's amazing to me that she goes back to basics, you know.

[43:54] Robert Peterpaul: To the text.

[43:55] Kate Baldwin: Yeah. She values the story. That's really cool. That should go in the museum of Broadway with the little translucent corners.

[44:01] Robert Peterpaul: Imagine that under like a glass case.

[44:03] Kate Baldwin: That would be so cool.

[44:04] Robert Peterpaul: And like nerds like you and me would go and like just like stare at it.

[44:07] Kate Baldwin: Oh, I know.

[44:08] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. I love that.

[44:09] Kate Baldwin: That's where she touched it.

[44:10] Robert Peterpaul: I know, right? And we could like maybe like zoom in, maybe turn the page with like a little handle that's attached or something and go through the ritual. Okay, but I have to get to your current project. You're co-hosting Maestra's Musics Amplify 2025 at Sony Hall.

[44:24] Kate Baldwin: Yes.

[44:24] Robert Peterpaul: On March 31st with our friend Elle Morgan Lee.

[44:26] Kate Baldwin: I love you, Elle Morgan.

[44:27] Robert Peterpaul: Me too. I'm such a fan. I don't know Elle Morgan personally, but we've had social media exchanges, and I just love Strange Loop. Wow, blew me away. Loved it.

[44:39] Kate Baldwin: Oh yeah.

[44:40] Robert Peterpaul: Such a lovely soul. And I think the two of you are just gonna be the dynamic duo of the evening. I'm hoping I can be there, which will be so fun.

[44:47] Kate Baldwin: I would love for you to be there.

[44:48] Robert Peterpaul: I know I would love it. First, can you please share with our audience a bit about the wonderful work that Maestra is doing to sort of achieve gender equity in the business?

[44:58] Kate Baldwin: Sure, sure. Yes. Maestra was founded by one of my best friends, Georgia Stitt, five years ago. The sort of origin story of it is pre-dates five years ago. It was probably 2017, 2016. I hope I'm getting those dates right. When Georgia was tasked with hiring a band for an off-Broadway production of Sweet Charity. And this production of Sweet Charity was directed by Lee Silverman, it was starring Sutton Foster, and the music supervisor was Mary Mitchell Campbell, the great Mary Mitchell Campbell, music director, and she hired Georgia to be the music director. So to have a to play and to conduct the band each night. And Lee Silverman, the director said, "I really want, since this is a feminist take on Sweet Charity, I hope that's okay to say.

I think that's what her goal was. I want the band to be made up entirely of female players." And Georgia said, "Okay, great." And so she went about trying to hire an all-female band. And then she hit some roadblocks because when it came to hiring positions like, I don't know, I'm gonna make this up, a drummer or a guitarist. People, she would ask around for recommendations. "Who do you know?" And people would come up with the same two or three names. And she thought to herself, "There's gotta be more than two female guitarists in all of New York City who play show music. There's gotta be more than three drummers. Where are these women? And why don't I know about them? I ought to know about them."

So she started asking around and she created a spreadsheet full of not just band members that she needed to complete her Sweet Charity band, but female players from who make music in musical theater, basically pit players, for every instrument. And then she expanded it to not just players, but people who write, composers, lyricists, people who arrange, orchestrate, do music contracting, which is the job of hiring the band. And that was the keeper of this big spreadsheet, and she said, "I don't think I should keep this to myself. It ought to be online, and we should have a directory." So Maestramusic.org was born. There is a fascinating directory. You could go there right after we're done with this Zoom call, and you could find, say you're looking for a harp player who does both musical theater and classical music.

That shouldn't be hard to find, but who lives in Rhode Island and has experience with, you know, early, you know, renaissance music because you have a very specific job that you want them to do. You can literally type and sell Girl Scout cookies.

[47:47] Robert Peterpaul: And sells Girl Scout cookies, exactly. Right. And has their own transportation or something. You know, I don't know.

[47:53] Kate Baldwin: Yeah, no, that's it. You can type that into the directory and you can find that person and you can contact them and you can say, "I have a job for you." Or if you're a lyricist and you want a composer, you can go through and look at all the wonderful composers who are there who provide examples of their work. And you can ask them questions and you can reach out to them and you could start a collaboration. If you are a young up-and-comer, if you're just graduating from college and you want someone to teach you about this crazy business called show business, you can apply to be in the mentorship program, and you can sign up and you can have somebody who is mid-career and who is in the business that you want to be in, teach you how it all works, teach you about subbing in a pit, teach you.

Oh, there are technical workshops that'll teach you about using Finale, using subbing in a pit or music contracting or how to write a lyric for a song. And all of those things are free. It's free access, and you don't have to be a woman or identify as a woman or be non-binary to access this information. Anyone can have it. Phenomenal. It is an incredible service that Maestra provides. And so this year is the fifth year of these services, and as you can imagine, Maestra has blossomed from this spreadsheet into, I don't think I think the directory has now 2,500 members in it. It serves women, it serves non-binary folks within the musical theater industry. So sometimes people are like, "But you don't have any classical musicians."

Well, that's because we're focusing on Broadway and we're focusing on people who want to work in this particular field. So Amplify is the fundraiser that we do every year on the last Monday in March because Monday is Women's History Month. And we hold it at Sony Hall and we feature work by well-known composers and also by up-and-coming composers. I hear that Sara Bareilles is going to sing one of her new songs from her new musical.

[50:06] Robert Peterpaul: Is it Interstellar? Is that what it is?

[50:08] Kate Baldwin: No, oh, the incredible is not a, The Interestings. The Interestings, I bought the book like a year ago when I found, yeah, I gotta start reading the book. It's well worth your time. It'll also have, you know, Jordan Fisher is gonna sing a Lynn Ahrens song, Zeneva Now is gonna do one of her own pieces. Michael Malia Kell, who I adore, is gonna sing. I can't remember what his song is right now. So surprise. We're gonna have all kinds of writers, all kinds of representation, all kinds of fun, and it's truly an inspiring and fun, fun evening.

[50:44] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, I thank you so much for explaining that in such detail because I've tried to amplify Amplify the past couple of years. We've done little episodes on this, and I have not heard that fascinating story about how it started with the spreadsheet, and I think that's so amazing. It's such a fantastic organization. Everybody please go check it out. I will say, Kate, I'm dismayed every time I Google it because it auto-corrects it to Maestro.

[51:09] Kate Baldwin: You're not alone. And I think that's the very reason we need it.

[51:13] Robert Peterpaul: Yes.

[51:14] Kate Baldwin: One of the reasons, you know. And I'm gonna show you the back of my laptop computer right now. I have a Maestra sticker.

[51:18] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, there's Stephen Sondheim, and they're the Supremes because Maestra, I love the stickers. And I walked in. There's a Big Fish sticker on there too. And I was using it at a cafe, and a woman walked in and said, "Maestra? Don't you mean maestro?" And I had to say, "No, I mean Maestra. It literally means is the female form of master, of teacher." And so that's what the organization hopes to do, hopes to teach, hopes to let the masters of our industry pass on what they know. And it's really working. I think the stats are something like in 2019, 2018, there were actual, you know, Broadway pits that had zero women in them. There were all male, some all male pits. Now there are no pits that have zero women. So at least every pit in on Broadway right now has at least one female or non-binary person in the pit with them.

[52:10] Kate Baldwin: So as it should.

[52:11] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, that kind of diversity is something to celebrate and something that I love being a part of. And I'm so thrilled to be an advisory board member and to be an associate producer and co-host and support.

[52:22] Kate Baldwin: Thank you for doing that.

[52:23] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, you bet. I think they may have been involved with, did you see A Sign of the Times at New World when it was off-Broadway?

[52:28] Kate Baldwin: Oh, I know about it though.

[52:31] Robert Peterpaul: It was a wonderful show, and there was a really powerful moment where they sing "You Don't Own Me," and the, you know, the back is revealed, and you see the whole pit and it's all women and they sing along. It's an entirely female identifying, I believe, orchestra, and just having them there say I was like, "I don't think I've ever seen that in New York City on a stage, especially like revealed."

[52:52] Kate Baldwin: That's so cool.

[52:53] Robert Peterpaul: And similarly, the band at Six is all women and non-binary folks as well.

[52:58] Kate Baldwin: Oh, yes, yes.

[52:59] Robert Peterpaul: And that was a request from Toby and Lucy, the creators, to say we really want a band that represents what we're representing on stage. And the producer, Kevin McCullum, called up Georgia and said, "How do I get a band that, you know, that the writers want?" And she said, "I have a directory for you." So it really is, you know, it seems so simple when you when I explain it in that regard, but it had never happened before. It's kind of one of those things where you just like smack yourself on the head being like, "How come nobody thought of this before?"

[53:30] Kate Baldwin: It seems like it should have always existed. So we're just celebrating the fifth year of its existence, you know.

[53:37] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, well, thank you for being a part of it and all you're doing.

[53:40] Robert Peterpaul: I think it takes special people to not only think of these things, but to actually take action, right?

[53:45] Robert Peterpaul: Because, you know, my dad still sits around and claims he invented the pool floaty thing, you know, the little like spaghetti thing.

[53:51] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, it was my idea.

[53:52] Kate Baldwin: Well noodles.

[53:54] Robert Peterpaul: We could have been rich, Daddy.

[53:56] Kate Baldwin: Absolutely.

[53:56] Robert Peterpaul: Next idea.

[53:57] Kate Baldwin: You get a patent on that right away.

[54:00] Robert Peterpaul: Exactly.

[54:01] Robert Peterpaul: And I know we're running out of time. I want to respect your time, but I also just want to ask you, you know, the event is during Women's History Month, and we brought up some of the Titans you've worked with, in addition to you being one yourself, you know, from Bette Midler to now being in The Gilded Age, which is literally a Broadway red carpet.

[54:17] Kate Baldwin: Oh, yeah.

[54:18] Robert Peterpaul: You know, is there a specific lesson you learned from a female role model that stuck with you? And you gave a great example with Bette, so I guess that could be an out.

[54:28] Kate Baldwin: Well, it's so interesting. I'm about to work on a musical at Encores called Love Life.

[54:35] Kate Baldwin: I have the mug right here, Love Life.

[54:38] Robert Peterpaul: Oh.

[54:38] Kate Baldwin: And it's directed by Vicky Clark, you know, two-time Tony Award winner, Vicky Clark.

[54:43] Kate Baldwin: And here she is, to me, one of the greatest actresses, musical theater actresses of our time, and one of the greatest holistic artists that I've ever been in the presence of because she understands this piece in particular.

[55:00] Kate Baldwin: She's been working on it for over a decade.

[55:03] Robert Peterpaul: Wow.

[55:04] Kate Baldwin: And so we just had a Zoom yesterday at about this time, and just sort of laying the groundwork of how we're gonna approach this material, how we're gonna approach the storytelling.

[55:16] Kate Baldwin: And what I love about Vicky is that she, it's not like your work encompasses part of your day, and then your life, the rest of your life is the other part of your day.

[55:29] Kate Baldwin: It's kind of like what is happening in your life informs the work that you're gonna do.

[55:34] Kate Baldwin: How could it not?

[55:36] Kate Baldwin: And what you're thinking about in the storytelling aspects sort of bleeds over into how you conduct your daily life too.

[55:45] Kate Baldwin: She says, you know, bring all of the things that are happening in your world right now to the role that you're about to do.

[55:54] Kate Baldwin: Bring all of your knowledge, all of your insecurity, all of your triumph, all of your joy and sorrow to this and lay it all out in front of me, and we'll shape it and we'll make it work.

[56:06] Kate Baldwin: I've never had a director say that to me.

[56:08] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, I love that.

[56:09] Robert Peterpaul: That's really cool.

[56:10] Kate Baldwin: That's why Severance and being severed wouldn't work in our industry.

[56:13] Robert Peterpaul: Do you watch Severance?

[56:14] Kate Baldwin: Yes, we were just talking about Severance the other day, actually, and the design of it.

[56:19] Kate Baldwin: The anachronistic sort of design.

[56:20] Kate Baldwin: Like, where are we in time?

[56:22] Kate Baldwin: Like, what is the design of it?

[56:23] Kate Baldwin: Why is it like a 1970s sort of console?

[56:26] Kate Baldwin: And yet when they're in the living room, it's 1990s, and then yeah.

[56:30] Kate Baldwin: It's so smart.

[56:31] Kate Baldwin: And the real world's like very dark and then underground, ironically.

[56:35] Kate Baldwin: And he's like, you know, where are we?

[56:37] Kate Baldwin: What's happening?

[56:37] Kate Baldwin: It's deeply unsettling, right?

[56:39] Kate Baldwin: Because the show, Love Life, plays with time.

[56:43] Kate Baldwin: So we are in 2025, we go back to 1791, I think.

[56:50] Kate Baldwin: And decades in between.

[56:52] Kate Baldwin: So, how do we know what decade we're in and what is the significance of that particular date?

[56:57] Kate Baldwin: And how can we tell the audience in just the briefest of moments where we are, what we're doing?

[57:02] Kate Baldwin: Because that's the talent of this musical.

[57:04] Kate Baldwin: I think she, Vicky, is the person on my mind right now and will stay with me for a long time because she is a person who empowers others.

[57:17] Kate Baldwin: And other directors I've had who have done that are people like Molly Smith, who ran Arena Stage for 25 years.

[57:25] Kate Baldwin: She empowers other people too.

[57:28] Kate Baldwin: I also think of Hunter Foster, he's a person who empowers other people.

[57:32] Kate Baldwin: When I've worked with him now three times where he was the director.

[57:36] Kate Baldwin: I gravitate towards those types of leaders who want to know what the actor has to say and has to give and says, you know what you're doing.

[57:47] Kate Baldwin: You have more to give here.

[57:50] Kate Baldwin: Give it, go for it.

[57:53] Robert Peterpaul: I love that.

[57:53] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, me too.

[57:54] Robert Peterpaul: It's like taking the guardrails down on the bowling alley, but the bowling alley's still there, and you still have the proper form.

[57:59] Kate Baldwin: I think that's so special.

[58:01] Kate Baldwin: It's such a great way to collaborate.

[58:02] Robert Peterpaul: And I know we're just about out of time, so I would really quickly love to try to empower you with a surprise game if you're down.

[58:09] Kate Baldwin: Yes, I love games.

[58:10] Robert Peterpaul: It's called the compliment game because I didn't give you enough already.

[58:14] Robert Peterpaul: And basically, I reached out to someone in your life for a very loving statement about you.

[58:19] Robert Peterpaul: I'm gonna read it to you, and then you have to guess who said it.

[58:22] Kate Baldwin: Oh my gosh.

[58:24] Kate Baldwin: I did DM your husband very frantically, like yesterday, which it's okay.

[58:29] Kate Baldwin: It's not him.

[58:30] Kate Baldwin: He's probably gonna be like, what is this Muppet in my inbox doing?

[58:33] Kate Baldwin: So just apologize on my behalf.

[58:35] Robert Peterpaul: But anyway, this one's super sweet.

[58:37] Robert Peterpaul: It came in clutch.

[58:38] Robert Peterpaul: Okay, so I'm gonna read it to you.

[58:40] Robert Peterpaul: You can ask me yes or no questions.

[58:41] Kate Baldwin: Oh boy.

[58:42] Robert Peterpaul: And we'll say you get like three guesses.

[58:43] Robert Peterpaul: There's really no rules.

[58:45] Kate Baldwin: Okay.

[58:45] Robert Peterpaul: I'll insert a cheesy theme song here.

[58:47] Robert Peterpaul: Not gonna make you listen to it with me because that would be cringy.

[58:50] Robert Peterpaul: Everyone's beautiful in their ways.

[58:52] Robert Peterpaul: The compliments came on me.

[58:53] Kate Baldwin: Yay, okay.

[58:54] Robert Peterpaul: It's the compliment game.

[58:56] Kate Baldwin: Compliment.

[58:57] Robert Peterpaul: Yay.

[59:00] Robert Peterpaul: Okay, so here is yours.

[59:01] Robert Peterpaul: Let me put my reading voice on.

[59:03] Robert Peterpaul: To me, Kate truly represents kindness.

[59:07] Robert Peterpaul: She is kind to everyone, whether they are the director of the show or the production assistant getting coffee.

[59:13] Robert Peterpaul: And she's always reliable and works really hard.

[59:16] Robert Peterpaul: And I think that she sets a tone for other people that she works with to do the same.

[59:21] Robert Peterpaul: That she is going to be a person who works hard and other people kind of try to step up to meet her.

[59:28] Robert Peterpaul: And that's whether you're the star of the show, or you're the lowliest street sweeper in London, like I was when I met her.

[59:37] Kate Baldwin: Lowly a street sweeper in London.

[59:41] Kate Baldwin: That's a little hint in there.

[59:42] Robert Peterpaul: This is also a transcript, so that might be connected some dots.

[59:47] Kate Baldwin: The lowliest street sweeper in London.

[59:50] Kate Baldwin: Like I was when I met her.

[59:52] Kate Baldwin: I never did Mary Poppins.

[59:56] Kate Baldwin: The lowest straight sweep, but not yeah.

[59:58] Kate Baldwin: Um, I don't know if it was Mary Poppins.

[1:00:01] Kate Baldwin: I never because I never did that show.

[1:00:02] Robert Peterpaul: Street sweeper.

[1:00:04] Robert Peterpaul: Let me see if there's additional hints here, just in case.

[1:00:06] Kate Baldwin: I need a hint.

[1:00:08] Kate Baldwin: But you can also ask me questions if you have any that pop into your head.

[1:00:11] Robert Peterpaul: Is this person an actor, actress?

[1:00:14] Kate Baldwin: Yep.

[1:00:17] Robert Peterpaul: Their social security number is no, I'm just kidding.

[1:00:22] Kate Baldwin: Um rats.

[1:00:27] Kate Baldwin: Obviously, I was in a show with this person.

[1:00:31] Kate Baldwin: Yes.

[1:00:32] Kate Baldwin: And another project that we've mentioned briefly today.

[1:00:37] Kate Baldwin: We've mentioned so many projects, though.

[1:00:42] Kate Baldwin: I know.

[1:00:43] Kate Baldwin: This one was a brief mention.

[1:00:45] Kate Baldwin: So this wasn't a part of the game earlier.

[1:00:48] Kate Baldwin: I forgot I played another game.

[1:00:49] Kate Baldwin: Oh well.

[1:00:50] Kate Baldwin: Nuts.

[1:00:52] Kate Baldwin: Um, is this person male?

[1:00:57] Robert Peterpaul: Yes.

[1:00:58] Kate Baldwin: Okay.

[1:00:59] Kate Baldwin: Also known for being an incredibly kind soul, someone I'm likely to have become friends with because of this podcast and the work that they do to promote kindness in the industry.

[1:01:10] Robert Peterpaul: I'm like making a pin.

[1:01:11] Kate Baldwin: I love it.

[1:01:12] Kate Baldwin: I love it, I love it, I love it.

[1:01:13] Robert Peterpaul: Rats.

[1:01:14] Robert Peterpaul: Who is it?

[1:01:16] Kate Baldwin: Did I do Hello, Dolly! with him?

[1:01:19] Robert Peterpaul: No.

[1:01:20] Kate Baldwin: I can give you a big hint.

[1:01:21] Kate Baldwin: I can say the most recent project you've done with this person.

[1:01:24] Robert Peterpaul: Okay.

[1:01:24] Kate Baldwin: I think that'll give it away.

[1:01:26] Robert Peterpaul: Okay.

[1:01:27] Kate Baldwin: The Gilded Age.

[1:01:31] Robert Peterpaul: The Gilded Age?

[1:01:34] Kate Baldwin: Well, I only did, um, my scene was with Blake Ritson.

[1:01:39] Robert Peterpaul: And so is that who it is?

[1:01:42] Kate Baldwin: No.

[1:01:46] Kate Baldwin: Um, was it Bobby Stegert?

[1:01:49] Kate Baldwin: I think the, I think you did The Gilded Age with this person, unless I'm making it up.

[1:01:52] Robert Peterpaul: No, my only scene was with Blake Ritson.

[1:01:56] Kate Baldwin: But Bobby Stegert does a lot of kindness work.

[1:02:01] Kate Baldwin: I'm like, can I even read anymore?

[1:02:02] Kate Baldwin: Let me, okay.

[1:02:03] Kate Baldwin: I'm gonna start playing the person's voice.

[1:02:05] Robert Peterpaul: Okay.

[1:02:06] Kate Baldwin: That might reveal it.

[1:02:08] Robert Peterpaul: To me, Kate truly represents kindness.

[1:02:12] Robert Peterpaul: She is kind to everyone, whether they are the director of the show or the production assistant getting coffee.

[1:02:18] Robert Peterpaul: I know who this is.

[1:02:19] Kate Baldwin: And she's always reliable and works hard.

[1:02:23] Robert Peterpaul: And I think that she sets a tone for other people that she works with.

[1:02:28] Robert Peterpaul: That she is going to be a person who works hard and other people kind of try to step up to meet her.

[1:02:35] Robert Peterpaul: And that's whether you're the star of the show or you're the lowliest street sweeper in London, like I was when I met her.

[1:02:44] Kate Baldwin: Clay Elder.

[1:02:45] Kate Baldwin: Clay Warren Elder.

[1:02:46] Robert Peterpaul: Yes, Clay Elder!

[1:02:47] Kate Baldwin: Yes!

[1:02:48] Robert Peterpaul: I knew you would get it.

[1:02:49] Kate Baldwin: Oh, I did not mean to put you through turmoil.

[1:02:51] Kate Baldwin: Oh, because we did My Fair Lady together.

[1:02:55] Kate Baldwin: There we go.

[1:02:56] Kate Baldwin: And now I play his older sister on The Gilded Age.

[1:02:59] Kate Baldwin: I play his older sister on The Gilded Age.

[1:03:00] Robert Peterpaul: Yes.

[1:03:01] Kate Baldwin: Oh, but you haven't had a scene with him yet.

[1:03:03] Robert Peterpaul: Okay, that's interesting.

[1:03:04] Kate Baldwin: I hope that doesn't give anything away.

[1:03:07] Robert Peterpaul: No, I know you probably can't talk about The Gilded Age.

[1:03:09] Kate Baldwin: No, I can't.

[1:03:10] Kate Baldwin: Can you share like any stories about kindness behind the scenes?

[1:03:14] Kate Baldwin: Oh my god.

[1:03:14] Kate Baldwin: It was the loveliest set ever because it was the easiest job ever.

[1:03:20] Kate Baldwin: I got picked up at nine o'clock in the morning, was in the makeup chair until noon.

[1:03:24] Kate Baldwin: We rehearsed.

[1:03:25] Kate Baldwin: We went off to lunch.

[1:03:27] Kate Baldwin: And then we came back and we shot the scene and we were done by five.

[1:03:30] Kate Baldwin: And like Blake and I went off to, you know, have dinner.

[1:03:34] Kate Baldwin: Like we had a lobster roll in Manhattan, and we're still like, okay, bye.

[1:03:37] Kate Baldwin: See ya.

[1:03:37] Kate Baldwin: Like it was so lovely.

[1:03:39] Kate Baldwin: We were the second scene of the day.

[1:03:41] Kate Baldwin: The first scene of the day was Cynthia and Christine and Celia.

[1:03:48] Kate Baldwin: And even though they were all done, Cynthia came over to like give me a hug and say hello and welcome.

[1:03:53] Kate Baldwin: And it was so, so, so lovely.

[1:03:56] Kate Baldwin: And I got to see Celia in the makeup trailer.

[1:04:02] Kate Baldwin: She was coming in to get everything taken off, and I was getting everything put on.

[1:04:06] Kate Baldwin: And it was literally two weeks after our friend Gavin had passed away, and I had yet to see her in person.

[1:04:13] Kate Baldwin: And my God, you have to have her on this podcast because if there's somebody who can teach us all about how to be present, how to accept, how to be patient, how to recognize the humanity in every moment, every moment, it is Celia Keenan-Bolger.

[1:04:37] Kate Baldwin: She is beyond generous with her life and her spirit and her honesty.

[1:04:45] Kate Baldwin: So it felt really good to be there that day and get to hug her while we were in our wigs and our corsets and, you know, in the midst of all getting stuck together with your button hooks and yeah, I'm such a fan of Celia.

[1:05:00] Robert Peterpaul: Oh my goodness.

[1:05:00] Robert Peterpaul: And of course, dear Gavin, who I, you know, got to be around a few times and I had on this podcast.

[1:05:08] Robert Peterpaul: And what a kind, generous soul.

[1:05:11] Robert Peterpaul: And we share the same sort of acting coach, this lovely woman, Linda, and yeah, just the effects of his passing is still very present in the industry.

[1:05:21] Kate Baldwin: What a light.

[1:05:22] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[1:05:22] Kate Baldwin: So I appreciate you sharing.

[1:05:23] Kate Baldwin: Oh, a hundred percent.

[1:05:24] Kate Baldwin: I think about him often.

[1:05:26] Kate Baldwin: I think about, you know, the legacy that he left behind and the impact that he made on so many of us, just by being, just by being the example that he was.

[1:05:37] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[1:05:38] Kate Baldwin: And I say what a light, but I think what a light and dark.

[1:05:41] Kate Baldwin: I think he's the first person that kind of like showed that you can have both and still be like a kind light person.

[1:05:47] Robert Peterpaul: Like you don't have to just be light, you know.

[1:05:49] Kate Baldwin: So I appreciate that.

[1:05:50] Robert Peterpaul: I know I gotta let you go.

[1:05:52] Robert Peterpaul: I would love if we could just end our time together by you sharing a tangible kindness tip.

[1:05:56] Robert Peterpaul: So something you would like listeners to do on their own corner, maybe in Maplewood, to make the world a little bit brighter.

[1:06:03] Kate Baldwin: It could be like a self-kindness or a kindness to others.

[1:06:06] Kate Baldwin: Oh, um, look up at the sky and see the sun shining and the clouds passing by and feel the gratitude of being alive this day.

[1:06:18] Robert Peterpaul: Hmm, being alive.

[1:06:19] Kate Baldwin: Yeah, no, that was like meditational just hearing you say that.

[1:06:22] Robert Peterpaul: Thank you so much, Kate.

[1:06:23] Robert Peterpaul: It was so lovely to get to spend some time together.

[1:06:26] Robert Peterpaul: When I think of class acts, I think of you.

[1:06:29] Robert Peterpaul: And I feel like all the musical theater nerds of the world are so lucky to have you as a role model.

[1:06:33] Kate Baldwin: I appreciate that so much.

[1:06:34] Kate Baldwin: It was my complete honor to be here with you today.

[1:06:37] Kate Baldwin: Best of luck with everything.

[1:06:38] Robert Peterpaul: Thank you.

[1:06:39] Kate Baldwin: And maybe I'll see you at Maestra.

[1:06:40] Robert Peterpaul: I'm sure you're gonna kill it.

[1:06:41] Kate Baldwin: I would love for you to be there.

[1:06:42] Kate Baldwin: Come, come, come.

[1:06:43] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, me too.

[1:06:44] Robert Peterpaul: All right.

[1:06:44] Robert Peterpaul: Well, I'm gonna let you go.

[1:06:45] Robert Peterpaul: Thank you so much.

[1:06:46] Kate Baldwin: Bye.

[1:06:47] Robert Peterpaul: Bye.

[1:06:50] Robert Peterpaul: Until next time, remember, everything is gonna be a okay.