This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Lorna Courtney: I am Lorna Courtney, and you're listening to The Art of Kindness.

[0:05] Robert Peterpaul: Okay, that was awesome.

[0:12] Robert Peterpaul: Hello, beautiful people. Welcome to The Art of Kindness, where we have compassionate conversations with artists from all areas of the entertainment industry who are using their voice to spread joy and make this big spinning planet in the universe a better place to be. I'm Robert Peterpaul, and I'm so glad you're here.

[0:41] Robert Peterpaul: Happy World Kindness Day, friends. You could be listening to so many podcasts today, and I am truly grateful that you chose this little old one. Thank you for being here. Welcome to a very special episode featuring Tony-nominated Broadway star, Lorna Courtney. You know and love her from a roaring turn in &Juliet, a beautiful performance in Heathers, and the upcoming Greatest Showman musical. That's right, the hit feature film is gonna be a musical. Her voice is truly one of a kind. Because of this, we teamed up with our friends at Grethers Pastilles, which specializes in being kind to voices. Now, if you're in the arts, you'll know this to be true. As you'll hear in this episode, I am obsess-ulated with Grethers, and pop at least one before every podcast recording.

In fact, I may or may not be eating one or two right now. If you're seeking a trusted remedy to soothe your vocal health this season, especially as the weather outside gets more frightful, but Grethers is always delightful, I cannot recommend Grethers enough. But, you know, don't just take my word for it. Singers run on Grethers. Broadway runs on Grethers. Even Glinda herself, Ariana Grande, has praised Grethers' powers. Since it is World Kindness Day, we wanted to walk the walk and kindly gift some Grethers goodies to one of you, our lovely listeners. So we asked you to share a kind voice in your life as an entry to an Instagram giveaway, and you all delivered. Let me tell you, you delivered.

Now, if you did not see this, if you're not on the gram, then I encourage you to reflect on the kind voices in your life today. Who's someone that's always a kind, guiding light to you? I mean, honestly, I hope your own voice, especially your inner voice in your head, is kind to you. But really, give it some thought work. Put some little thoughts into that. Let the thought bubble pop over your head and let it ask you who's a kind voice in your life. Anyway, sorry, I'm going on a tangent. I truly loved seeing your comments. We had so many people enter into this. Shout out to folks like Sophia, who mentioned her nanny being her kind voice. I can totally relate. My nanny, as you all know, if you listen to this show, is my kind voice.

And I bring her up in every episode. Here's me bringing her up right now. And then we had a friend, Lily, who discussed their friend Mick helping them come out of their shell and meet other people. And I just loved that. Check out the rest of the comments on our Instagram at Art of Kindness Pod and at Rob Peter Paul. It's truly a parade of kindness. But of course, we can only pick one winner. Now, if you did not win this time, we're really trying to activate kindness even more this season by doing a lot of these giveaways and trying just to bring joy to the world. Sorry. OK, not sorry. Actually, I'm going to sing again in a moment. Drumroll, please. And the winner is the winner of a Grethers goodie bag is Juliana Tracy.

Congratulations, Juliana. Or is it Juliana? Let me know. Let me know in the DMZ at JMT zero four to nine. You seem to be a performer and a podcast host yourself. You're killing the game. I am so happy that you won. Now I put these things into a random generator and it narrows them down. And then I look at the messages and let me say I loved all of your messages, but I really enjoyed yours, Juliana, Juliana, and appreciate you. You thanked your friend, Kristen, for being so kind and said, if you win, we can share the Grethers. And I just love that. So get ready to share. Grethers is going to send you such a lovely box. And I'm sure there'll be enough to spread the kindness and make everybody's voice feel like this season and beyond.

So enjoy. And thank you again to Grethers for sponsoring this episode. This episode is also powered by our friends at Welcome to Times Square, the premier billboard experience that lets you be a star for a day. In fact, if you go into NYC this weekend, you may see a familiar little Muppet on a billboard in Times Square. That's me. And I'm really excited. I loved recording with Lorna at their studio in person. It was a vibe and a half. I got totally unhinged and energized because, as you know, I usually record these remotely. You can watch our full video episode on our YouTube page and find some snippets of it on social media as well. OK, now I've said too much. Let's get to this kind conversation, which I hope inspires you to take action today and build a kinder world. Without further ado, please welcome the lovely Lorna Courtney.

[6:08] Robert Peterpaul: Hello, friends. I'm coming to you today from the bustling Welcome to Times Square studio in the heart of, you guessed it, Ohio. No, just kidding. Obviously, we're in Times Square. My brain is freezing because I'm a goofball, but also because I am joined in the studio by the talented, glowing and all around lovely Lorna Courtney.

[6:29] Lorna Courtney: Hello. Thank you so much for having me.

[6:32] Robert Peterpaul: Thank you for being here, friend. Before we dive in, and I've kind of already been singing your praises probably too much already, but I have to say that besides the obvious reasons for admiring you, you know, and your talent, I just I truly admire offstage how gracefully you seem to wear this title as a leader now in the business.

[6:50] Lorna Courtney: And wow, I'm a leader. Oh, thank you.

[6:57] Robert Peterpaul: You know it or not. I just I'm grateful that the younger generation sort of has you to look up to.

[7:02] Lorna Courtney: Mm hmm. Yes. I have led two shows now &Juliet. I played Juliet and I'm Veronica in Heathers and I get to play this role every night. I have a show tonight. Yes. And I feel like there can be a lot of responsibility with like leading a show. You can't have a lot of weight on your shoulders. But for me, I sort of think of it as well. Be kind. Right. Be kind to others. And we're all equal. We're all in this together. Right. It takes every single person, every each and every one of us to make the show happen. Yeah. No one is above the other from the front of house, from, you know, behind stage, everyone, every single person. So that's sort of my philosophy. Yeah. And that's how I take the like the weight off of my shoulders, I guess, so to speak, because like, yeah, that's the beauty of theater. We're community.

[8:06] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. I love that so much. It's very high school musical of you. We're all in this together.

[8:10] Lorna Courtney: Yeah. We're here to talk about high school musical as well.

[8:16] Robert Peterpaul: We are very different. Very different. But before we get into that, I wonder, Lorna, you know, as someone who I guess just received a compliment, but also gets a lot of acclaim. How are you at receiving compliments?

[8:28] Lorna Courtney: Oh, I, I like compliments and I like giving compliments, too.

[8:32] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, yes. Yes. I love your outfit.

[8:38] Lorna Courtney: Love your smile.

[8:39] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, thank you. Oh my God. You're so sweet. I love your smile.

[8:44] Lorna Courtney: Also, I'm trying to channel Veronica.

[8:48] Robert Peterpaul: I see that. I see that with the blue jeans, too. I love it.

[8:50] Lorna Courtney: Thank you so much. You know, just keep going. This is what we're here for. Right. It's really just about compliments. It's just about like complimenting me. So when we talk about the art of kindness and how kind are you to me? No, I've heard you speak about kindness often, which is why I wanted to have you on here besides admiring you as a performer. So to set some context for today, Lorna, what would you say is your definition of kindness and how do you think it's changed over the years?

[9:08] Lorna Courtney: Well, it's kind of hard to define it in one way because we show it in many different ways. Right. But I think doing well onto others, treating people with respect, giving love, receiving love. And also, I think giving something without respect, without expecting anything in return.

[9:34] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. Yeah. I love that sort of like no cost, just giving the benefit to somebody else.

[9:41] Lorna Courtney: Yes. Being altruistic. Yeah. And the joke is kind of that we actually do get something in return almost every time. It makes us feel really good. And it's not why you do it, but it's a reason to do it as well.

[9:57] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, theater is an exchange for sure.

[10:04] Lorna Courtney: Yeah. I think Kristin Chenoweth calls it an exchange of love. She's like the OG person to quote. I love that. Yes. Yeah. And especially in this show, which I know is such a fandom, I've again, like heard you speak about kindness often and it made me wonder and looking at your journey and everything you've been through and you're so vulnerable when you talk to people, which I really appreciate. Is there an act of kindness that you feel like changed your trajectory and got you to being here today?

[10:23] Lorna Courtney: Oh, OK. One singular act of kindness. I'm sure there's a lot. That's it's so hard because I feel like there have been role models all throughout my life. Like my aunt has played a very significant role in my life. And she always she's the most kind person. She has the biggest heart. Oh, very, very giving. And she's influenced me. Let's see. Yeah. Teachers that I that I grew up with that just like would give more than what's expected of their job. Right. Like that it's they would give. And also, let's see, like I was a part of a lot of after school programs. And that's actually like how I got my start with performing and singing like these free arts education after school programs and the teachers in those programs like a beacon after school program. Mr. Here or the Mama Foundation of the Arts. No. Well, they just they taught me a lot and they like uplifted me and gave me so much more than what I expected or what I thought that I needed.

[11:43] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, I love that. And it seems like early on, you got a lot of praise. I know you went to Japan. You had a leader as a young child. And then I love how you I mean, I don't love it. I'm sorry it happened to you. But I love that you talk about how you sort of lost your confidence for a little bit. And it makes me wonder in regards to kindness, because I think self-kindness is a big part of confidence and how you can walk into a room and just feel comfortable in your skin. Do you have any, I guess, tangible advice for listeners who maybe are struggling with confidence?

[12:13] Lorna Courtney: Yeah, I think self-love kind of goes hand in hand to that. I know for me, like as a singer, if my voice is feeling a certain type of way, then maybe that's why I will lose confidence. But if I'm feeling good, if I'm feeling healthy, if I'm if I'm doing all of the things that I do to take care of my body, to take care of my voice, then I feel better. You know what I mean? Like I feel whole and complete, I guess, if if I'm fueling myself with, OK, the self-love and self-care. And also this week I went and I visited my parents and my aunt and that fueled me in a different way. Yeah. So I could just walk about life feeling complete. And I guess that's that's sort of confident.

[13:06] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, that's really beautiful. Beautiful way to put it. It's sort of like completing and filling up your bucket. Yeah, with all the different things. And, you know, if that means like, you know, after a show, I have to decompress and like I need like alone time for a little bit, you know, just me and my bubble bath and my TV show.

[13:30] Lorna Courtney: What's the TV show? What's like?

[13:30] Lorna Courtney: I watch like some really like bad.

[13:35] Robert Peterpaul: Is it trashy?

[13:35] Lorna Courtney: No, but that's the most comforting because you're like, it's like 90 Day Fiancé.

[13:39] Robert Peterpaul: OK, because I can't think I don't want to think after a show. I get that. Like I just want to laugh, you know?

[13:44] Lorna Courtney: Yeah. Do you watch Traders? That's like a big one in our house.

[13:49] Robert Peterpaul: I need to watch Traders. I need to. OK, that's the next one.

[13:49] Lorna Courtney: Yeah. Check out Traders. It'll definitely ground you in kind of a weird way. But I wonder like I also so admire your work ethic.

[13:59] Lorna Courtney: Oh, thank you.

[14:14] Lorna Courtney: Crazy drive, which I know a lot of people in the Broadway community have with exactly what you were just talking about. The downtime.

[14:21] Jodie Whitaker-Shipman: Well, I think as humans we're always trying to better ourselves, right? And even if you listen to the great, whoever you think is great in this field, Meryl Streep, whomever, they always say I am continuously working on my craft, working on myself. There's no such thing as like the best or greatness. You know what I mean? It's not measurable, which then, okay, gives me like, okay, well, if people that have been studying this for years are saying they still haven't perfected it or they still haven't reached greatness or whatever you call it, then they're continuously in classes or they're continuously working with coaches. They're continuously bettering themselves. That inspires me. That influences me. So just last week I finished an on-camera acting class for a week. I was doing it in the acting intensive and I was also in the show.

[15:25] Lorna Courtney: So yeah.

[15:26] Jodie Whitaker-Shipman: That's awesome. You're staying curious.

[15:29] Lorna Courtney: Yes, staying curious. And I think learning about things that, well, I think this acting class is a great way to also meet people like in the community that are like-minded, right? But doing things that...

[15:44] Lorna Courtney: That was my water, everybody.

[15:45] Jodie Whitaker-Shipman: Oh, that was your water?

[15:46] Lorna Courtney: Yeah, hashtag smart water, not so smart. But yeah, anything that may connect you with other people and also you can learn something new. So volunteering, anything like that. Being a part of a running club. I don't know. Let's go jogging. I do want a podcast where like everyone's walking together. I think that would be super fun.

[16:06] Jodie Whitaker-Shipman: That would be nice.

[16:07] Lorna Courtney: Start walking and then we're walking and like there's an interview. All you hear is just...

[16:10] Jodie Whitaker-Shipman: I know, literally sponsored by like heavy breathing. I look at my grandma too, who, shout out to my nanny, is the most curious person and it also helps you evolve with the times. Because as we grow up, we kind of stick to whatever our generation's beliefs were. You're just sort of boxing yourself up and you're not going to stay with the way the world's moving. So I love that you shared that and one big moment of growth for you to have a cheesy transition happened right down the street at &Juliet. And I wonder, I feel like people will roar at me if I don't bring it up. So you've mentioned how Juliet really allowed you to find your voice and the self-confidence aspect that we were talking about early on. But with some time away from the role, what do you think is the biggest lesson that she taught you?

[16:56] Lorna Courtney: Well, I think it has to do with confidence. I think that it has to do with believing in myself, knowing that I can do it. I think a lot of the times we have self-doubt and our mind is so powerful, right? So if we think that we can't do it, then we may physically enable ourselves from doing things.

[17:22] Jodie Whitaker-Shipman: Me self-taping.

[17:23] Lorna Courtney: Yes, like anything. But I think it's a change of mindset, right? And that also goes hand in hand with confidence, this idea of confidence. Because for myself, if I know that I'm doing all the things that I need to do, if I have a list, then it helps me feel more confident. If you're sending in a self-tape, okay, well, you gave it your best, you memorized, you did all the things that you could do, you feel good about it. So you feel confident, you feel better. With &Juliet, I learned, I guess, the impact of the stage, right, on young people. And it's such an honor. And I have it again with Heathers. All these young teenagers and tweens are coming to the show and they're dressed up in hand-sewn costumes.

They spend so much time making bracelets. And I realized that I do have an impact. And I have to be really careful with what I put out there on social media, how I treat other people, my reputation, right? Because young people are looking up to me. So I want to influence them in a good way, right? I want to be a positive role model, a positive influence for them in a world where there's a lot, especially with social media. The sky's the limit. So hopefully we can spread some of the joy and positivity and inspire them to do whatever makes them happy.

[19:14] Jodie Whitaker-Shipman: I appreciate you doing that. I wish more people with a public following maybe had that philosophy and that they could do it on their own. And like you said, we're at Heathers now. I mean, Heathers is such a community building show, which is funny because it's such a dark, twisted, hilarious, big fun show. But I won't forget this. When we were there, we saw a couple people dressed up. And not only were they just having a good time and clearly there for maybe the 10th time, but they were showing people where the bathroom was. They were helping people get into line to buy merch. It was such a community. So have you sort of felt that from the fandom?

[19:48] Lorna Courtney: I have. I have the fandom and also just the community with my castmates also. It's been really great. It's a lovely experience. And I love seeing people from &Juliet and from the other shows that I've been in come and see Heathers, come and support. And yeah, it's lovely.

[20:15] Jodie Whitaker-Shipman: I love the show. I'm such a fan. I thought it was like the most fun. Big fun.

[20:19] Lorna Courtney: Thank you. Yes, big fun.

[20:21] Jodie Whitaker-Shipman: And yeah, you're on this high with Heathers now. And you went to two iconic schools, I feel like. You know, you went to the Fame High School and then you went to UMich, which I have a ton of friends that went there. And then everyone's just sort of popping up on Broadway from that school now these days, rightfully so. And as you now kind of go back to school with Heathers, I wonder how does your own schooling experience sort of inform your one on stage going back to school every night?

[20:46] Lorna Courtney: Well, I think so. I loved LaGuardia High School. It was unlike any other high school experience, especially in New York, which is why Heathers is sort of foreign because I'm like, wait, what? People do this and I know I knew it. But like in my high school, it wasn't one big community where everyone was there because they were a part of the arts in some aspects. So we were already connected and it felt amazing. And then going to college, well, high school prepared me for college because it was a pre-conservatory program. I ended up going to getting a BFA, which is not conservatory, but there's a lot more credits within the arts than there are academic, but it still has the academic aspect. And then again, I find a new community because there was only 23 of us in my graduating class.

So we were very close-knit. And if there's only like 20, you know, each class, the whole program is not that large, which is also why I wanted to choose that school. Because if I stayed in New York, then there are too many distractions in New York. And I'm already from New York. So I wanted to experience something different, you know, see how people live elsewhere.

[22:08] Jodie Whitaker-Shipman: Oh my God. But don't call it a little town because Ann Arbor is like a big city.

[22:14] Lorna Courtney: Is it? I've never been.

[22:15] Jodie Whitaker-Shipman: Yes. Oh, oh yes. It's a big city. Like, see, I thought it was a cute little town, but people there are like, no, like people that live within Michigan, Ann Arbor is like a big, big city for them.

[22:28] Lorna Courtney: Really? So is it more of like a, you go downtown kind of bar school?

[22:31] Jodie Whitaker-Shipman: It's a college town.

[22:32] Lorna Courtney: It's like a house party vibe.

[22:34] Jodie Whitaker-Shipman: Oh, yeah. Like there's all of those things. Like, I honestly never even went to a football game. I was too scared because people would like jump off of like their frat houses.

[22:43] Lorna Courtney: Like Ram and Kurt flying in the air.

[22:48] Jodie Whitaker-Shipman: Yeah. Look at that. You know, I mean, you're also not to, we don't have to go too dark here. I want you to feel safe. But like, you've been very open about your mental health struggles in college. And in looking at the role of Veronica, I don't know. I just sort of see a lot of parallels with her relationship with J.D. and even the toxic relationship of the Heathers.

[23:03] Lorna Courtney: Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. There's lots of toxic relationships in there. And I've dealt with toxic relationships in the past, but it's a new me now. So now I know what to look for and what not to look for in my relationships. You know, I'm glad you live in and you learn. And bless you.

[23:23] Jodie Whitaker-Shipman: That's Alan, everybody. The head of the Broadway Podcast Network on the mic, which is yes. I think specifically for Heathers, at least in the beginning of the run, I had a little bit of a hard time separating what Veronica was going through, like in the show with Lorna, like, you know, in regular everyday life. So when I was talking to you about having a routine, I think it's really important because the stress is not good, right? We don't want that.

[23:53] Lorna Courtney: I got a stress ball in my bag if we need it.

[23:55] Jodie Whitaker-Shipman: Exactly. And so letting Veronica go, doing decompressing, doing whatever I have to do. And for this show in particular, it means giving myself an hour of alone time, like by myself in my bubble bath.

[24:12] Lorna Courtney: Yeah, that's beautiful. You know, like I find that the things or I found what works for me and for, you know, for everyone, it's different. Maybe some people need to talk to another person and that actually, but me, no, at least not for that one hour.

[24:31] Jodie Whitaker-Shipman: Yeah, you just need to sit and chill in the bubble bath. Do we have a bubble bath like flavor? Is there a certain smell?

[24:34] Lorna Courtney: Oh, let's see. Well, I just, you know, I usually use Epsom salt, but now I'm using magnesium flakes.

[24:41] Jodie Whitaker-Shipman: No, that's good for you because there's like a magnesium deficiency in America, I've heard.

[24:45] Lorna Courtney: Research says. Don't know the facts.

[24:47] Jodie Whitaker-Shipman: And that's also good. Magnesium is good for relaxing the muscles, relaxing. So if your body, if you're carrying that tension over to the next day, then it's not good. It's not good vocally. It's not good physically. Right. So I really, it's very important to let go so that you can start anew. And that's what I do every single performance. No performance is the same. It's starting anew every single time.

[25:09] Lorna Courtney: I love that. Well, you kill it every performance, no matter what. I'm sure that's the same. But this actually leads perfectly into a little surprise game. It's called Grether's, Grether's, Grether's and Grether's.

[25:24] Lorna Courtney: Yes. It's sponsored by your friends at Grether's Pastilles. And since their lozenges are kind to your voice, I'm going to ask you how kind you are to both your voice and yourself during a Broadway run in a little flash round.

[25:35] Lorna Courtney: Oh, gosh. Oh, gosh. OK. So I'm going to throw a prompt and you quickly just tell me the act of kindness for yourself or for others that lifts you up, like whatever pops into your head. OK, and we'll have, I mean, it doesn't really matter, but we'll have two minutes, maybe a little big fun timer, Alan, if we can get that going. If not, it doesn't matter. And then I'll just throw a prompt out there and we'll see what happens.

[26:00] Lorna Courtney: OK, we'll see. I might not go fast, but we'll see.

[26:02] Jodie Whitaker-Shipman: Well, you know what? Shake the Grether's. I had like three before we started. Good thing there's not really a lot of sugar in these because I would bounce through the ceiling.

[26:08] Lorna Courtney: OK, let's hit the timer. Pre-show self-kindness.

[26:17] Jodie Whitaker-Shipman: Oh, pre-show self-kindness.

[26:17] Lorna Courtney: Oh, gosh. I know the timer makes it hard to think. I'm looking in the mirror and smiling.

[26:22] Jodie Whitaker-Shipman: Oh, that's beautiful.

[26:22] Lorna Courtney: Beautiful. A dressing room kindness. Your dressing room's like your mental health spy.

[26:27] Jodie Whitaker-Shipman: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Dressing room kindness.

[26:33] Lorna Courtney: I'm getting people's mic packs to them.

[26:39] Jodie Whitaker-Shipman: Oh, I love the specificity. Favorite kind act to do to your cast or the company.

[26:39] Lorna Courtney: Oh, favorite kind act. Hmm. To the cast or company. Well, oh, this is kind of hard. I think just overall being like positive and uplifting to everyone.

[26:56] Jodie Whitaker-Shipman: OK, what about the opposite? What's your favorite to receive?

[27:00] Lorna Courtney: Oh, kind of kindness from the cast?

[27:00] Jodie Whitaker-Shipman: Yeah, we see where the crew.

[27:00] Lorna Courtney: Um, when it's a hard day, like I think a compliment goes a long way.

[27:07] Jodie Whitaker-Shipman: Yeah, I agree. They're powerful backstage snacks that brings you joy.

[27:13] Lorna Courtney: Besides corn nuts, I guess peanut butter.

[27:18] Jodie Whitaker-Shipman: There's a honey peanut butter that Justin's has. I'll show you later.

[27:23] Lorna Courtney: OK, so good when you feel like a dead girl walking on a two show day.

[27:30] Jodie Whitaker-Shipman: I'm so sorry. I am a corn nut.

[27:30] Lorna Courtney: OK.

[27:30] Jodie Whitaker-Shipman: Oh, the act of kindness to anyone that lifts you up when that lifts me up when you're feeling dead.

[27:40] Lorna Courtney: Oh, OK. Meditation, meditation or some sort of like deep belly breathing.

[27:45] Jodie Whitaker-Shipman: And yeah.

[27:45] Lorna Courtney: Oh, what about when your voice is whispering, I'm damaged or it's just like feels tired vocally.

[27:45] Jodie Whitaker-Shipman: OK, I think that plus.

[27:58] Lorna Courtney: Does warming up count?

[27:58] Jodie Whitaker-Shipman: Yeah, OK. We talked about winding down after a show.

[28:04] Lorna Courtney: OK, so you post post show kindness like on your day off. So when you when you're off.

[28:04] Jodie Whitaker-Shipman: Oh, nothing, nothing.

[28:09] Lorna Courtney: I love it. Favorite Halloween candy. This is so random.

[28:09] Jodie Whitaker-Shipman: Oh, my gosh. I don't like candy.

[28:15] Lorna Courtney: Well, you said that right within the two minute time.

[28:15] Jodie Whitaker-Shipman: OK, so you win. You win. This is like a limited edition Grether's pen.

[28:23] Lorna Courtney: Oh, thank you. I love it.

[28:27] Lorna Courtney: It's strong. I like it though. I love ginger.

[28:30] Robert Peterpaul: I'm glad. Yeah, ginger is great. And there you have it. Thank you for playing Grethers, Grethers and Grethers. You win. In regards to sort of like overall, I guess, what you want folks to take away from Heathers, you so beautifully said, I would say kindness, a little goes a long way, and you never know how much it will affect someone's life. So I would just say being kind and spreading love.

[28:52] Lorna Courtney: I said that?

[28:52] Robert Peterpaul: You said that not to confuse you.

[28:54] Lorna Courtney: Perfect for this podcast.

[28:56] Robert Peterpaul: That's why I was like, Okay, Lorna, get in this seat.

[29:00] Lorna Courtney: That's so funny. Yes. No, I believe that. Is it okay if I tell you a story?

[29:05] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, please.

[29:07] Lorna Courtney: Okay. So in &Juliet, there was this one lady who saw the show, well, who wanted to see the show. She met Mel who played a nurse at the bar after the show, like around the theater. And she said, I really wanted to come see the show. Mel helped her get a ticket to see the show. She said, after seeing the show, she had cancer. And before seeing the show, she didn't know if or she didn't want to fight it. But after seeing the show, I guess I that we all had an impact. And she realized that she is a fighter, because she has the eye of the tiger. And it was in that moment when Mel told me that, you know, broke down in tears crying, because you realize the words that you're saying, the meaning like in these shows that you're in, is really powerful.

And it can change and impact people. Yeah. So like showing up, of course, and like, giving the best that you can, so that you can reach someone in the audience. And maybe, you know, they learn from Heathers that to be extra kind to people or else they'll turn into a Heather.

[30:32] Robert Peterpaul: It's so true. I really appreciate you sharing that story. My mom's actually undergoing treatment for cancer right now. And the second time, she's such a strong lady. It's like the TV shows, she loves seeing Broadway shows, those things kind of reinvigorate her. Yeah, moments where she's like, I can't keep doing this, right? Because it's hard. It takes a lot out of you.

[30:51] Lorna Courtney: Yeah, mentally, physically, emotionally, everything.

[30:55] Robert Peterpaul: And I'm sure you are a great support system for your mom. I know that she's lucky to have you.

[31:03] Lorna Courtney: Thank you. That's so sweet. Caregiving is no joke.

[31:06] Robert Peterpaul: No joke. Mel knows in &Juliet at the show.

[31:09] Lorna Courtney: Yes. Other people listening might know.

[31:12] Robert Peterpaul: So yes, I really appreciate you saying that. And I think it's such a beautiful story. You know, as you said, the cast and crew of this show, I think you said it was just built with so much love. So do any acts of kindness stand out to you from like the rehearsal process or now that you're in the show?

[31:22] Lorna Courtney: Oh, there's so many acts of kindness. Cynthia Erivo saw the show like, okay, surprised us. Ben Davis knows her and like surprised us. And then the next day sent like a basket of goodies to us and like spoke to us. That had an impact on me because I look up to her so much. Our everyone like on our creative team. They've shown us so much love and given us like I feel like half of our rehearsal process was just like giving us advice and like sending and showing us videos of past cast members like just sending love to us. Yeah, that was like half of our rehearsal process. So we're like, are we gonna get to rehearse? But it was but it also feels so good knowing that like, this is like, you know, we're a part of this bigger family, this big family. And that in itself in of itself is kindness.

[32:24] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, I kind of wish more rehearsal rooms led with that.

[32:27] Lorna Courtney: Yeah, we all come in on the first day, everyone's a little nervous, or if you shop a show, it's like three days, and you're sort of like, Who am I gonna eat lunch with? Oh, Andy made sure it was every single day, he had a new video for us. And we sat down like before we even got to rehearse, and we all sat down and had a moment of togetherness and kindness before rehearsing, which is important because, like, the show has different aspects of it. And there's not a lot of kind, well, there are moments in the show that are not kind. So making sure that outside of the show, we're building a really strong foundation of kindness of, like, just togetherness and love and that that family aspect was really important and is important.

[33:14] Robert Peterpaul: That's awesome. And the show shows a lot of the lack of kindness, which I think kind of need the lack to show the thing exactly at the end, right. And so to me, it's like such a show about the community coming together. And you have this beautiful moment at the end. And yeah, I just can't recommend it enough. Everybody run, don't walk to see Heathers. And as we kind of move on a little bit, it's time for another surprise game. I know, I'm so sorry. It's called the compliment game.

[33:37] Lorna Courtney: Oh, okay. Didn't get enough already.

[33:41] Robert Peterpaul: Okay, basically, I'm gonna read you a compliment from someone that you know, someone in your life. Okay, I secretly covert got. And then you just have to guess who said it. Oh, my gosh. Okay. Okay. You can ask me yes or no questions. I don't really know anything. I'll try and there's a hint built in here. So I'll read the first second. Okay. Everyone's beautiful in their own way. It's the compliments game on me. Okay. Compliments. Compliments.

[34:13] Lorna Courtney: Yeah, I'm gonna rerecord that. Okay, so here is your compliment. Thank you so much. The first time I sat in a theater and watched Lorna in &Juliet, the entire time my mind was racing to how amazing she would be to work with. It became my mission. Meeting her and then working with her blew every expectation I ever had just like the cab honking out the window. Is she that friggin talented? Yes. Is she that friggin nice on and off stage? Yes. I would work with her on anything, anytime, anywhere.

[34:47] Robert Peterpaul: Betsy Wolf.

[34:49] Lorna Courtney: No, but I did. I almost Oh, my gosh, the way that you said, frickin. I feel like she's, she's so playful. Okay, let me see. I'm choosing to be my second. Actually, if this person didn't come through, I have more of you need it. But oh, my gosh. Okay. If it's not Betsy, then who else can it be? Is it someone in the cast of &Juliet?

[35:10] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[35:16] Lorna Courtney: No. Are they on the creative team?

[35:19] Robert Peterpaul: Not of &Juliet.

[35:23] Lorna Courtney: Oh, not of &Juliet. Nope. Oh, they just saw you in it. And they immediately wanted to work with you.

[35:23] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, Andy Fickman.

[35:30] Lorna Courtney: Yes. Yeah. I'm sorry. I didn't get that first. Andy. Well, you were just talking about Andy and how great he was.

[35:33] Robert Peterpaul: Yes. He this is the end of his quote. I just want to read it to you. See, I knew it was someone playful. I was like that. Frickin Yeah, I knew it was some playful. And he'd be fake. And he'd be fake. And he also said the actual moment I knew I would be in her life forever was when my daughter came to rehearsals. And after a long, tiring day of work, Lorna took my six year old's hand and became her best friend as they walked all the way back to our apartment side by side. Yeah, if you get a chance to find yourself a Lorna, run, don't walk. She is magical.

[36:08] Lorna Courtney: Oh, wow. Yeah. Thank you. What have you learned from Andy about kind leadership? You sort of gave an example earlier, but I wonder if there's anything else you've picked up on?

[36:15] Lorna Courtney: Yeah, no, I think it's very important. I mean, Andy has been nothing but kind to us. I mean, he's given us so many gifts that we didn't even expect. Like the first day, like the first day he was like, Alright, here's some Heather swag. And then just like, yeah, he's just such a great leader. And he set the precedent, right? So everyone else in the room has to be like that. Yeah, you know, yeah. And like I said before, starting our rehearsals with acts of kindness with showing with asking past cast members, like to send a little video to us. And just, yeah, give us some tips or give us like, you know, most of them congratulated or gave advice and things like that. It really connected us all together. And I think that's like, that's the most that you can ask for, like in great leadership.

[37:23] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. Oh, I love the way you put that. Well, I guess speaking of great leadership, I said this to you earlier, but from &Juliet to Heathers, you are sort of the number one on the call sheet. You're sort of the leader. I mean, Heathers is more ensemble, but you're at the core of it. How do you approach being a leader yourself? Is that something you think about?

[37:38] Lorna Courtney: Oh, well, I think I sort of answered that before by not putting the pressure on my shoulders. Right. And like one kindness is always first respect that goes hand in hand, treating people well. But also thinking about this as a team sport. It's like a it's a community thing, right? No one is above anyone else. Everyone's opinion matters. Everyone's voice is equal. Everyone matters. So that's my philosophy.

[38:13] Robert Peterpaul: That is her phone. I wonder, you know, as I mean, Heathers is amazing. It'll never stop. But as you leave something like that, or even just take in Juliet, you performed on the Jimmy Fallon show, you had a Tony nomination. I mean, but how are you, I guess not only kind to yourself, but how do you navigate coming down from these highs? Because these are big highs for you.

[38:27] Lorna Courtney: Yeah, and I think, you know, I didn't expect any of that, too. So it was a lot. And I was like, you know, no one can really prepare you for it. So I've learned a lot. And I've learned how to say no to certain things, too. I think you have to be kind to yourself and know that you can't be multiple places at the same time. If you have eight shows a week, you just you know your body. And I learned how to, like be less of a people pleaser and say no more, just because I know how much I can give. Yeah. You know, without like, depleting myself, because I still have a job to do at the end of the day. I have to do those shows.

[39:19] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. And that's really hard to I imagine with I mean, I've experienced it on my own level, but just you go to the stage door. And yeah, the job doesn't really just end when the curtain closes. We even saw with our Audra posting Audra McDonald, like someone followed her kind of all the way home, which is really okay. So no, and it happened with Casey too.

[39:38] Lorna Courtney: Oh, really? Almost Famous.

[39:42] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. Or in Almost Famous or in Back to the Future. I'm not sure which one but it's happened. It happens.

[39:45] Lorna Courtney: Yeah. It's like kind of trying to uphold those boundaries. But right. So still, it's like recovering people pleasers. It's like, yeah, don't want to please but only if it comes from a place where you feel like you're, I don't know, safe. Like you need to be safe.

[40:00] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. Yeah. Mm hmm. So right, like setting boundaries.

[40:04] Lorna Courtney: Exactly. Like what you were saying. Yeah. Um, yeah, and it's okay to say no.

[40:07] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, no, it's a complete sentence.

[40:09] Lorna Courtney: Yes. I think Jane Fonda says that. And my grandma says it all the time. I quote my nanny probably.

[40:15] Robert Peterpaul: Well, I guess who's kind of been your role model in this industry? Has there been somebody that has kind of taken you under their wing?

[40:22] Lorna Courtney: There's so many people whom I look up to. Audra is one of them.

[40:27] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[40:29] Lorna Courtney: Laura Benanti.

[40:33] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, such a gem. She was on here a couple seasons ago, maybe, but I love her.

[40:33] Lorna Courtney: She was. Oh, Carrie Butler, who I'm doing the show with. Like, there's just there's, there's too many. There's too many to name. I just they're amazing people like in, in my life. Like teachers that I've had that at Michigan, Michael McElroy, who I worked with, like, there's just Yeah, some really kind-hearted people.

[40:57] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, I love that so much. Well, as you are yourself, and I know you got to say no sometimes. So I appreciate you saying yes.

[41:04] Lorna Courtney: Yes. Thank you so much for having me.

[41:08] Robert Peterpaul: Thank you, Lorna. I would just love if we could kind of end the time together. I wouldn't love to end it. But if we could, by you sharing a tangible kindness tip. So what's something you would like for everybody out there listening to do on their own corner to try and just make the world a little brighter?

[41:21] Lorna Courtney: Oh, okay. Well, maybe this isn't a tip, but maybe it's a challenge. I remember so my best friend, Ray, when we were in high school, Ray is a writer and would write a piece of poetry for a random person and give it to them on the subway. Isn't that so nice?

[41:43] Robert Peterpaul: That's incredible.

[41:44] Lorna Courtney: Yeah. And it like brightened up their day. You never know what someone's like going through or.

[41:49] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[41:51] Lorna Courtney: Or like, just writing a little kind message.

[41:55] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[41:57] Lorna Courtney: Or like a kind message, like, sort of what you find in like a fortune cookie or something like that, anything like that, and like giving it to someone, or, or telling that to someone.

[42:01] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, there was a bathroom in New York City somewhere at this Chinese restaurant, where you would go in and the mirror had kind messages. It looks so good, or it would like scroll through and say other ones.

[42:09] Lorna Courtney: Wow. I wish every mirror was like that.

[42:12] Robert Peterpaul: I know, right? I know. I mean, maybe we can we can brand that we'll talk about that. But everybody, thank you for tuning in. And Lorna, thank you just for being you and being someone we can all look up to and cheer on.

[42:21] Lorna Courtney: Thank you so much for having me. I loved it. I loved speaking with you. So fun.

[42:25] Robert Peterpaul: Until next time, remember, everything is gonna be okay.