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[0:00] Alvin Hough,, Jr: I don't know. My story clearly is unique, but I like to think that like there's no one way to get it in entertainment and theater and film. I would venture to say that no one's done it the same way, you know, it hasn't been done the same way twice. Right. Everybody's path is a little different.

[0:21] Gennean Scott: Welcome to the Black Business of Broadway, a podcast brought to you by the Broadway League and Black to Broadway. Here we highlight the stories, how-tos, and successes of the Black professionals and legends of Broadway. I am your host, Gennean Scott. Today's episode features Alvin Hough, Jr., a music director, conductor, and arranger known for his work in TV and Broadway. In this episode, we'll discuss Alvin's journey from studying Earth and Planetary Sciences at Harvard to his successful Broadway career. A poignant moment for me in our conversation was when he shared that most of the productions he'd worked on revolved around Black stories. While ever grateful and important, he expressed how empowering it is to be recognized as an individual beyond the narrow stereotype many people impose.

I was gutted because too many of us marginalized folks know exactly how that feels. However, in some of his most recent projects, such as New York, New York, and Merrily We Roll Along, where he serves as the associate music supervisor, Alvin mentions being seen. We explore the significance and how he is working to create opportunities for greater diversity on Broadway. Join us as we uncover Alvin's journey and his relentless efforts toward creating a more inclusive Broadway pit. Welcome, Alvin, and we are excited to have you here with us today.

[1:56] Alvin Hough,, Jr: Well, it's exciting to be here. Thank you for having me.

[2:00] Gennean Scott: You have been playing piano since the age of five, and you are classically trained. When were you introduced to the world of musical theater?

[2:11] Alvin Hough,, Jr: Uh, 13 is the short answer. Yes, I grew up in Washington, DC. I had kind of stumbled on music by accident. No one in my family, like my immediate family really plays or is musical. And I remember very vividly it was Halloween when I was five. That day no one could come pick me up from school. Everybody was busy, so I had a doc supportman, the beauty, you know, there was something. Right, right. You know, nails did, hair did, so somebody, you know. My mom said, "Hey, just go to the after school room, I'll come get you in an hour." She came, and the teacher that was watching us told my mom, "Hey, so your kid wasn't like banging on the keys like everybody else. He seemed to be trying to figure something out.

I don't know. Just get the kid some lessons, see what happens." Like total random moment. Wow. And you know, I would like to think that if that moment hadn't happened, something else would have happened to trigger. But my mom listened, got me lessons, I loved it. And I started playing Bach and Chopin and learning all the classical stuff. I had a great teacher; she was a retired teacher from the DC public school system. And she was great. She had me do the same thing every week. It was right hand alone, left hand alone, both hands together, and then I had to memorize every piece that I ever played for her.

[3:44] Alvin Hough,, Jr: As a kid, there were moments where I wasn't particularly fond of that. But you know, now I'll be 40 next year, and I am just so grateful for her to see something in me and to push me to that level, and my brain now thinks about music in a very different way than it would have if I weren't memorizing things early. I got to 13, and she wasn't this straightforward and blunt with me because I was still a kid. But basically, looking back, what she said is, "Okay, you're starting to get good. If you ever think you might want to make money doing this, you can't just play Bach. It's not gonna work if that's all you can do." And I think, like, of course, again, hindsight's 20/20, but looking back, I think I learned, sure, I learned a lot from her musically, obviously, but I learned something from her in that moment where she said, "This is what I'm good at, and I can continue doing this, but you need to be exposed to other things, and I can't do that for you.

But I know people, I have colleagues, I know what I think I have a plan." So her knowing her weaknesses in a way was a strength, and she said, "I can't do it for you, but I'm gonna send you somewhere else."

[5:11] Alvin Hough,, Jr: She essentially forced my church to allow me to play on Sundays. What? I was playing Sunday mornings, that's it, no ifs, ands, or buts, he's playing. Because she knew I would be in an environment where I was going to fail, but that I was surrounded by friends and family and people who had been watching me grow up and said to be in vacation Bible school and all the things, and you know, I had that community. I can still see the first Sunday. I'm sitting at the piano and across the pulpit as the organist, and we're playing the first hymn, and of course, this is me. I'm note for note, because that's what I know. And we get to the end of the end of the chorus, and he looks at me and he points up.

And I'm like, "Well, what does that mean? Is there a bird flying into church? What are you talking about? What do you mean up?" And well, you know what he meant. It went up a half step. And I completely crashed the bird. I'm like, "Ah, this is not right. These aren't the notes on the page, I don't know what I'm doing." But we would have discussions; he would sit down with me, and I learned I played in my church for several years after that, and I learned how to cite transpose. How when a soloist, you know, catches a spirit and decides to go off on a random, forgets a verse, skips this, does a tag. It's like, how do you follow a singer who's right kind of going off, you know, the beat?

[6:48] Alvin Hough,, Jr: Right. How do you follow a choir director, a conductor? How do you, you know, all these things that I didn't have access to in my aunt's living room with the one piano and the one teacher? We had a great relationship; we played duets together, my teacher and I, but she's like, "Okay, you're starting to get good. You need to be out there, you need to be playing with the drummer in church, you need to be watching a choral conductor, you know, conduct this choir of ten people. You need to be at rehearsals and learning this process." And the same summer, 13, she took me to a suburb of DC to the Jewish community center, and they were doing a summer theater camp. And I didn't know anything about theater.

I didn't know anything about, like, I was listening to SWV and Destiny's Child on the radio, like things about mom was listening to, top four. It was great. I didn't know theater. And the first show I did was Tommy. Uh-uh. Didn't know who the band, the Who, was; I didn't know anything about rock. Like that wasn't my cup of tea. But like much in the same way, there was a guitar player at this camp who was just Neil, was so giving of himself.

[8:10] Alvin Hough,, Jr: And there's a song in that show, "Pinball Wizard," that is really tough to play. I mean, it's meant to be like a guitar thing, but it can be played on the piano, of course, in rehearsal you play it on the piano. And he could play a little bit of piano. He was helping me figure out how to translate the notes into a heavier sound, and just being in a situation where I was the assistant music director at 13 of a summer theater camp. My first foray into the theater, and that summer was life-changing to be introduced to gospel in a musical sense. And then to be, you know, kind of thrown into this theater world with kids, you know, I was technically in charge of kids older than I was, which was interesting.

When you're 13, you're like, you're telling the 17-year-old, "No, you have to cut off on B3" or whatever. Uh-huh. It was a little, you know, the dynamic was interesting. But we figured it out. We got through; I did that summer camp for seven years. And it was great. We did Annie, we did Barnum, we did Chess, Grease. Wow. We did, you know, Joseph; we did like really big shows, and I learned about the theater dynamic and all the things that go into putting together a show, and that was completely brand new to me. I didn't know anything about that. That was 13, and like I said, I'll be 40 in February. So I've been at it for a bit.

[9:37] Gennean Scott: Right. It was like that boy's good. Okay, so let's jump ahead a little. So can you take me through your journey? Because while you were amazing, clearly, if at age 13 you are playing gospel music, assistant music director to all these great musicals, but you go to earn your degree in Earth and Planetary Sciences at Harvard, hello, Harvard, and get a master's in meteorology. But you are an MD on Broadway. How does that happen?

[10:22] Alvin Hough,, Jr: I don't know. My story clearly is unique, but I like to think that like there's no one way to get it in entertainment and theater and film. I would venture to say that no one's done it the same way, you know, it hasn't been done the same way twice. Right. Everybody's path is a little different. I'm fortunate to be married to a doctor, and I would assume that if you want to be a good doctor, the most basic, you know, rudimentary way is to go to medical school. Right. I'm sure there are some doctors who have bucked that trend, but I assume like a very high percentage of them have gone to a good medical school. I don't think it works that way in music. I have two kids. They're six and four. They're amazing.

My son Sam is six, and Camille, little baby girl, is four. And it's interesting to think about the story I'm about to tell you about my mother. I was like, how can I be like that when I grow up? How can I be, you know, a good parent? My mom was always supportive of me, went to every recital, went to all the things I did, totally wanted me to play, but she was realistic. She wanted me to do my best.

[11:40] Alvin Hough,, Jr: In first grade, second grade, third grade, she's like, "Oh, so your best is A's. So now you can't bring anything home but A's." I'm like, "Oh, so I kind of walked into that one." Yeah. I see what you did, Mom. Okay. So she's like, "Well, you can bring home A's; you gotta go someplace good." Apparently, I told her in fourth grade I wanted to go to Harvard. I don't remember that, but you know, parents, they I was gonna say, you know, we make up our... you don't because we know you don't know. But she's like, "Yeah, music's great. You're doing... you're amazing, you're great. What if you break a finger? Remember that time you were playing baseball with your cousins and you caught that ball at home plate, you forgot you didn't have a glove, because we sometimes, you know, we look... we didn't have all the money, we didn't have enough gloves, everybody.

So sometimes I end up short-handed, ball came to me, and you really sprained that finger real bad, you had to play the next day and it didn't go so well. What happens if you break a finger? What happens if, you know, what else do you like? What else interests you?" And she never like forced an answer out of me, but you know, she was... it was she reminded me. It's like, "Okay, what else is in that brain?"

[12:55] Alvin Hough,, Jr: And I don't know, I feel that of course now knowing a lot more about weather than I did when I was a kid. DC's weather really isn't that extreme if you think about it. I mean you don't get hurricanes, I mean, you know, there aren't many earthquakes. We don't get that many tornadoes. Yes, it kind of gets cold, we might get a big blizzard every now and then. But I mean, it's not so bad. It gets, you know, it's pretty humid in summer. Anybody who's been there in the summer knows that. But I was always fascinated when something, you know, extreme would happen. Oh, it was 100 degrees today. Did it break a record? Okay. Oh, we got two feet of snow in this blizzard. I had her buy me, I forget, birthday, Christmas, I don't know, I was 10, 12, something.

I had her buy me a rain gauge. Oh. And as a musician, I love math. Numbers are important to us. And I, little nerdy Alvin would keep a little journal, a little log. Every time it rained, I'd say, okay, okay, April 5th. I mean it rained six tenths of an inch from these hours. I kept a little to try to, you know, see some patterns, like, you know, what's going on with the weather in DC? I kept it in the backyard and I would always check it. Um I don't know. I just I I was fast. I've been fascinated by bad weather, which may sound odd. I've told many people if I got the best movie gig in the whole world and I had to move to LA and live there for like three years, I'd probably turn it down because I I couldn't take the 75 and sunny every day.

Like that that's me. Yeah. I I I need the seasons, I need you know, like I in New York we just had a really rainy week and it was awful. I I don't think anybody liked it. No. But I think now that it's 80 and sunny, you appreciate well. I personally appreciate the sun more because we had the rain. If it had been sunny for the last month, I'd be like, well, there's just another day in the whatever. Um almost sound like you're preaching. I'm like, you got an organ back there you want to get on. Reverend Dr. Hart. So I just started I I I I got in the weather and I said, you know what? Well, so I I was bringing home good grades. Um I ended up being validator in my high school. I got into Harvard.

Of course. And in my head, I'm like, well, if I got such good grades and I got into this really good school, I can't can't just do weather, right? I gotta so I started pre-med, even though that really wasn't my thing. I mean, sure, I got like A's in chemistry in high school and high in in in high school. But um freshman year, I realized this this isn't right. I don't want to do this, I don't really want to be a doctor. Like, I can be successful not being a dog doctor or lawyer. There are other ways. And I switched, and there was one weather class. I'm like, okay, great. I'm gonna take Earth and Planetary Sciences. I didn't care about rocks and geology, but I had to go through all these other courses.

Right. It it did give me a nice trip to Hawaii to look to study volcanoes. Okay. There it is. It could be worse. Um, but I got I got to the weather class, loved it. Like the equations are, well, they're kind of rusty in my head now. It's been a few years, but I I I love the inexact nature of the science. Um it's very interesting. I mean, you could it's you know to an extent like the butterfly effect is real. You know, the butterfly flaps his wings and modolia at a f it's like that's how all like weather models are made. They they start with these initial conditions, and if you say it's gonna be this temperature, this wind, this humidity, blah, blah, blah, blah, then what's it gonna do in three hours, six hours, a day or two.

And you know, if you're off by a degree or off by one mile per hour, that affects that ripple makes things, you know, less accurate as your model gets days and days out. Things are pretty good for a day or two. Um, but I I I enjoy so I went to Harvard, did that. I said, you know what? I'm a little burnt out from college, let me take a year off. So I took a gap year, and it's funny, if I hadn't taken that gap year, might not be talking to you right now. Don't know. Got God had a plan. Right, right. Um, so I went to Georgia Tech. Um, they had a great program, and I actually got my master's in three semesters. Um, I know it was it was I I I went fall, spring, I stayed for the summer. That was the catch.

I stayed for the summer and then graduated in the fall. Um and again, another way, it's like I I was trying to save money, didn't want to stay for an extra semester. Hey, yeah. But again, God had a plan. That was the fall of 08 when I graduated. And I chose Atlanta, I chose Georgia Tech because in Atlanta, the weather headquarters for CNN and the Weather Channel are there. And they took us, you know, September, October that that fall. They took the kids, we have a partnership with them and took the kids on these tours, and we're like, I'm just I'm just gonna get a job at one of these places, get people coffee, work my way up the ladder, it's gonna be great. Atlanta has the Fox Theater, there's enough of a theater scene in Atlanta.

I figured like I could crack my way in over the years and keep that on the side. Like, I I wouldn't mind living in Atlanta's a nice city. Well, if you recall, fall of 08, that that recession, because we've had a couple now. Yes, that recession had hit, and they were taking us on tours, and they said, Hey kids, um, don't don't don't tell anybody, but we about to start firing people. So we can't think about hiring any of you. I'm sure you're great kids, but you know, things are looking bad for the economy. So okay. Okay, well, that's Atlanta. Maybe maybe I could find something somewhere else. I couldn't find it anywhere else. Um after spending my whole life in DC, Cambridge, Atlanta. I wasn't going to Missoula, Montana for a $25,000 entry level job.

I couldn't, I was 25 years old, I couldn't do that. Um so I'm a I'm a little stuck. Uh huh. And I I had a friend call me, like a colleague from DC, who I'd done some regional theater with, fell out of touch, he randomly called me for something like, Hey, can you come play for my mom's birthday party or something? I forget what it was. But I'm like, oh Dave, I'm in Atlanta, I'm, you know, following this this weather track, this meteorology track. Um, I'm not in town right now, but you know, let's, you know, hook up when I'm when I'm home or something. He's like, dude, I actually left DC, moved to New York, and I've heard some folks play. He's like, man, you better than some of them. Like, I think you can play piano in New York.

Dave, you crazy. What do you what do you know, Dave? He's like, okay, get get your education. Good luck. If the weather thing doesn't work out, give me a call. So that was in the middle of my year and a half in school. Right. So now I'm at the end of my year and a half at school. And I'm like, uh, well, things are looking a little dry. Uh Dave did call me like six months ago. Let me s let me see what he knows. Um I called him. He's like, yeah, I know people. Uh get up, get up here. I'm like, oh, okay. Um I was a TA at Georgia Tech, so I saved a little bit of money. I mean, not a ton, but I had some. I'm like, okay, I'm trusting Dave. He thinks I'm good enough. So I moved up here from January 09.

And pretty sure you can see where this is going. All the people that Dave knew, ain't nobody need no piano player. So now I'm like, well, thanks, Dave. Your heart was in the right place, but um, it's not gonna pay my rent. Um so I said, well, I moved here, I made I made that choice, and now I gotta do it myself. I it's it's up to me. So I said, okay. I made business cards, I made resumes, I spent time in Staples, I didn't have a printer, you know, you know. Just kind of hit the ground and cold emailed people and you know, left resumes and on you know, pinned them on bulletin boards and all the stuff. Bulletin boards. Did a lot of stuff for free. Yeah. Did a lot of stuff for free. I was playing like first grade graduation ceremonies.

Yeah. And they're like, um, uh I said, Well, what does it pay? They're like, um, the sandwiches at the reception. I'm like, okay. I'm hungry. I'm in. I can play pop and circumstance, I know. Um, I was doing a lot of stuff for free. I was just starting to get my footing. There was a youth choir that started at a church, and I was I had seen that somewhere and applied for that, went in an audition. They liked me, and I was gonna I was helping some kids on Saturday mornings with that. I was playing a couple of auditions, uh not auditions, uh, sorry, voice lessons for some teachers, 'cause I like emailed as many voice teachers as I could. Like I can sight read really well. Thank you, church. Taught me that.

So, um, and I played some theater, you know, over the years back home like that. Let me try that. And and a couple teachers, you know, bit and had me in for a couple lessons. I was starting to make my footing. And I was doing a nymph show, uh, New York music festival show for free. I was the assistant to Brian Yusuf, who you know, wasn't the big cheese that he is now. Oh, okay. Um but he but but he was on his way, he was clearly bigger, bigger cheese than I was. He I'm I'm sure he was getting paid. I wasn't um but um there was a national tour of Dreamgirls that was going out. I knew nothing about it. Mm-hmm. Um, until the music director, a batch of the touring show, called Brian and said, dude, I'm I'm up a creek.

I need I need a I need a black guy, I need a piano player, I need him like yesterday because we had to let our guy go. Turns out they were in, they just started their third week of rehearsal at New 42nd. Uh and they found out that their their keyboard one player couldn't read music. Wait. How did that happen? He had tricked them. Apparently, his ear was amazing. And he knew the soundtrack like the back of his hand. And was a killer player. But you get in a room, and the direct what does the director say? Well, I I want to change things. This is a revival. So I would have let's, you know, cut the second verse, or let's make this a vamp, or let's move this. You know, things just move around. Uh-huh.

And apparently the kid would kind of like, he was 19. He would struggle through the day, like sort of kind of limp by, but he record the whole rehearsal. Go home that night, listen to it, come back next day perfect. Because he got it. But then it would change again. And obviously. And so it went back and forth that way for a couple of weeks, and then eventually realized, oh, wait a minute, you're not actually reading. You're you're, you know, taking these recordings home and learning them. So it was a bit of I don't know. I I like I said, I wasn't in the room. I don't know exactly what happened. But they had to let the kid go and then say, like, okay, find me somebody. He's gotta be on. He's on the rhythm sections on stage, so that's full costume, wig, and it's Dreamgirls.

Gotta be black. Right. Gotta be able to read. Right. And Brian said, Well, my associate, he's this kid sitting right here. Here's his number. So I didn't have time to be nervous. I didn't have time to I went down to New 42nd Street and played for Sam Davis. He was the MD on their lunch break, and that hour was a blur. He just opened the score, he said, play this. Great. He's like, this part is Cola Vocha. You have to follow the singer and follow me conducting, so you know, play along with me. Um yeah, it was a it was a blur. I mean, I'm sure he we talked and he got to know a little bit about me, like how I got to that point. And it's so funny, of course. Now I'm like, no-brainer, you take the job.

Right. Sam's like, the job's yours. He's like, you got 24 hours to make a decision, or else I gotta go find someone who can do it. It's gotta need someone really now. And in the moment, I know it. I was thinking, but I just got these voice lessons, I just got that choir youth choir gig. Like, I'm starting to make it in the city. Why am I why do I want to leave? But you don't, yeah. That was my that was my thing. And he he could tell I was you know on on the fence, and he said, I don't know, lunch, let's say was two to three.

[25:50] Alvin Hough,, Jr: And at three o'clock, he said, come with me, come next door, just watch rehearsal for like five minutes. And I had done enough stuff in DC, I'd been through rehearsal processes, I'd you know, been, you know, productions, and I got in that room and I said, I said, Oh, oh, something I can't say on the word. Oh well, people said it, but yeah, I three. And I said, I've never done this. It was a the atmosphere was different. Henry Krieger was right there in the room, like the composer. Right there in the room. Oh my god. They had a they had drums in rehearsal. The forecast was there. The talent. They started, they opened their mouths and like, oh my gosh, these people are like next level. This is.

I'm like, oh, okay. This is this is not regional theater in DC. God bless them. I they got nothing against I got plenty of folks who still still work in DC, and that is a great scene. I'm like, oh, this is okay, this is this is New York. Yes. And somebody wants me to be a part of this. I can't, I can't turn this down. So I of course I took it. Um we did five weeks, I want to say, five weeks at the Apollo, that's where we opened. Wow. Which was amazing to be in that space and that history and that crowds were electric. Yes. Um went on the road for six months. They'd extended to a year. Um we did three weeks in Tokyo. Wow. Yeah, it was a national tour plus three weeks, I think like in May or June, like in Tokyo.

It was amazing. And um it's funny. I I learned really quickly. Um you don't learn things until like you learn them. You don't realize something. And everyone was saying, yeah, word of mouth is real big in this business, word of mouth, word of mouth, yes, yes, yes. I didn't really understand, but I got I got back, and Bender Casting, who did that show, must have heard good things about me. They said, hey, you want to be one of one of our audition pianists? So I started playing Lion King auditions for them when I got back. Wow. Um Memphis, the show Memphis, got a hold of me. And they said, I I now know what they were doing. They were, they were, they were, it was a it was a test. They were testing me.

They're like, hey, Alvin, um, we just had a replacement um person come in. Can you be a rehearsal pianist? Oh Al um can you play some auditions for us? Oh oh Alva, can you um do this dance um uh session with the choreographer? Oh Alba, do you wanna do you wanna um play the run through next week for the the put in for so-and-so? Oh, hey Alba, do you want to sub on keyboard two? Hey Alba, do you want to sub on keyboard one? Okay, he passed, hey Al, you want to MD the tour that's going out in a year. And I'm like, oh, I you were grooming me. You were seeing if I can handle the steps. And it's just and and I've been very lucky to have I like I said moved here January 09 and it's almost 24. So I mean I've been out almost 15 years and I've been uh very look very lucky, very blessed to have been welcomed into the you know theater community with open arms.

[29:03] Gennean Scott: Right. I mean, and you talk about relationships and word of mouth, and you know, we know that this industry is a lot of re about relationships and word of mouth, and you are a part of Muse, and you have recently formed um with some other uh colleagues of yours, uh BMAP. Can you talk a little bit about why that is important, not just uh well to the industry at large?

[29:35] Alvin Hough,, Jr: Sure. Um, there was this little something happened in the world in March 2020. I don't know, maybe you you might know. And it was funny. It was funny sitting at home doing nothing, you know, I I w I I wish I could take credit for the idea for having the the chutzpah, the balls to to do something myself. But I can't take that credit. I gotta give credit where it's due. Um Mary Mitchell Campbell, love her. Steven Remus, love him. Two of them apparently have been talking for a while, and it came to a head at a point, and they said, these are these are, if you don't know, two, they're they're both white but amazing music directors, orchestrators, supervisors, arrangers in our industry. And they had been talking, they said, there's a problem in our pits.

And the pits don't look like New York City. Right, yeah. There are um the Tooty men, too many white folk, and there are plenty of talented people out there who just haven't gotten a chance or don't know that Broadway can be for them. Um and they they came to the unfortunately the handful of us who do the black MDs who do do this, the Kenny Seymour's, the Joseph Jubers, you know, the Jason Webbs, you know, us who who do do this, and they said, hey, we don't we want to be your allies. We want to put something together that since we have the time, and since dear goodness George Floyd just got murdered. Yeah. It's like this is on everybody's brain. When when theater does come back, it's gotta be different.

Um, and we can't control the stage hands and the cast and the everything, but we can control the pits. We could talk, we can make the the uh the musician pool just look uh look different. Um how do we do that? Um so we we got together and 19 of us formed uh Muse, musicians United for Social Equity, and for us the big thing, because Steven put it so well, Stephen Remus, he put it so well, he said when he was doing Wicked, gosh, what is it now, 20 years ago when everything? Yeah, 20 years, it just yeah, he said, I mean, with everything, there's a team. Like it nobody does anything alone. And he's like, Well, his music team was great, and he says, but now all the people who got to be a part of that process who were, you know, under him and you know, by letter of the law, but like working together with him to make them, you know, to copy the music, to keep notes, to make like all those things that music assistants and and you know, and and copyists and people and uh rest of the team does.

He's like, those people, they're now music directing national tours, they're music directing on Broadway, they've got all these other big gigs, and it started because you know, I speaking to Stephen, like he said, I gave them a chance, and like this team gave them a chance to start on this project, and now it's become a big thing, and because their name has been attached to it, they're like, Oh, we worked on Wicked, you must be good. Hey, do you want to do this? Do you want to do X, do you want to do Y? Do you want to do Z? And he's like, Well, that's that's that's that's the problem. It's the access. Right. It's how do we get people in the room to be flies on the wall and to learn, you know, you know, quote unquote, how the sausage is made.

How does an MD talk to a choreographer? How does an MD talk with a director? Like how do these production meetings go after a preview performance? Like when you're talking about lighting and sound and costumes, and like how how do the different departments work together? Like all these little things that no one no one gets to see. Like, you know, you see a beautiful show at eight o'clock at night. Um, but there's so much that went into it, you know, in the days, weeks, months, of course, years, of course, to get the idea started. Um, so it's like, how do we get more black and brown people in the room? So um he was we we we were all passionate about making a change and to not just make a like a blip on the radar, a short-term check the box kind of change.

Right. We hope, like I personally I I hope, and that uh and muse as a as a entity hopes, and we're around for long time. Right. To build a pipeline, to get into schools, to get into colleges, get in the high schools, eventually just work our way back, middle elementary, yeah, and start, you know, let to let Latino Asian black, like to let kids know, like Broadway can be for you.

[34:25] Alvin Hough,, Jr: One of the things that draws me to the industry, I'm going back to when I was 13. Tommy, and that that revivals I wants to come back, I know, um, to Broadway. Like, Broadway is can be anything. It can be rock, it can be country, it's RB, it's new music, it's bluegrass, it's just hip hop, whatever. Just run down the list. You can write a show about it. Um, and I think I mean I I know that drives me, that compels me. And I think there are people out there just for just just lack of knowledge, who may be an amazing church organist or maybe an amazing, you know, something in their own little market, their own little niche, but think that, oh, well, Broadway is whatever, whatever that stigma is, like it's it's only Gershwin and Cole Porter and these white guys and boom chick, boom chick, boom chick, boom chick, camelot, brigadoon, I guess only that.

Right, yeah. And that's just not true anymore. Um how do we reach those kids and to say, well, I've heard so many stories from folks older than I am. Because hey, I I know people in Broadway Pitts that are 60, 70, 80 years old. Um they talk about the good old days. They talk about when all these recording studios had all these sessions and there were jingles and there were all these all these places to play, all the jazz spots were open and everything. And sadly, a lot of that's gone. Like a lot of those salsa bands, a lot of those jazz places and recording jingles. I mean, people got electronics to that, unfortunately. Right, yeah. And a lot of things have dried up and though those players, like, well, what where's the work?

Right. Where's the work? And people, you know, older than I am who never even thought of Broadway when they were growing up, are now like some of the best players on Broadway. Because that's where the work is. The consistent, you know, legit c consistent insurance. Yes. Um so it's like all those people have kind of like found their way to Broadway, but they're only 40 theaters. Granted, we got off Broadway, we got regional stuff, we got great stuff in Bucks County, Pennsylvania. We got you know, Boston has a great theater scene in Chicago. Yeah. Um, national tours. There's a lot of a lot out there, but it's like how do we get the knowledge, the access to people? So Muse, we have a an online directory. Um free to sign up. It's for anybody, any level, any anything. Just to say here's a place you can go.

[37:06] Alvin Hough,, Jr: And right now of course all the people who are working diligently on this, we're all New York based. Right. We're trying to branch out around the country to say, hey, like I need a black female trumpet player for my show in San Francisco. I don't know anybody. Right. Hopefully you can go to that directory and you know type in what you're looking for and and we want to get to a point where we can find people and and have their information out there. It's funny now since we started oh gosh when did when was George Floyd? May 2020 June 2020 something like that? June. June 2020, yes. Okay. I know it was before fireworks, before Fourth of July. But um so we get we got three years now. We're growing we're over 500 in the directory we want to get you know we really want to expand that so that we can get to the point of you know I when I get asked hey do you know someone who fits this criteria it's like in my head I'm like yes I know four people and I've already recommended all four of them for stuff and they're already busy.

And that's great. But we want to build a pipeline so that in the next three six ten years we can say well I used to know four people now I know 40 people do that and one of them hopefully doesn't work right now you can grab him or her. Right. Right. And so building those mentorships that build that relationship those relationships is really important to us and and we're we're we're trying to just share our knowledge and to give people access just to be in the room just to see see how things work. Um I'm also part of BMAP, as you mentioned. BMAP um is a similar yet very different organization in that it's like no no offense to mentorships.

[38:49] Alvin Hough,, Jr: Mentorships are lovely, they're wonderful. You know, those take time to cultivate and to build up. We're like, I'm sure there are people now post-pandemic, if you can call it post-pandemic, whatever this area is. Yeah. Yeah. It's like there are people right this purgatory, that there are folks out there who are really good, and for whatever reason, like I got my break for that Dreamgirls tour because someone else got fired.

[39:16] Right.

[39:17] Alvin Hough,, Jr: And someone was in immediate need, and I got a phone call and didn't blow my break. Right. I got, you know, right place, right time, and then I jumped on it. It's like BMAP is saying there are people out there who are talented and for whatever reason haven't cracked their way into that circle, they haven't gotten an off-Broadway show, they haven't gotten a chance to sub on a Broadway show, they haven't, but their resume is so long, they've done all these things you know, in JPAC and all and Connecticut and whatever.

[39:47] And we're like, okay, COVID restrictions are, you know, hopefully we'll go away and stay away, and hopefully we have a good winter. But we're like, okay, people in the tri-state, if you can get to a pit in New York, if you can, if you're within like, you know, a 50-mile, right, if you live close, yeah, let's start a program and get actual professionals who are really good and just haven't gotten over that hump.

[40:12] Let's pair you with someone who has a chair in a show, and there's no guarantee of work, no one's saying no one's promising you anything, but it's like, here's your access. Right. We're gonna put you next to someone who has made it, who has a show, who is successful, learn their book. As if you were going to get a subbing job. Learn it. Talk to that person, pick their brain, get to know how what their life experience, how they got to that chair.

[40:38] And, you know, um, we're in the middle right now of our first three-month cohort, our pilot program. Um, and we've had a couple of mixers just to have people, you know, we think it's important. I mean, so much of this stuff happens in dark pits underneath stages. You know, let's come, let's come out of the ground. Let's go to the union, let's go to 802, let's go to the club room, come out of hiding, let's see.

[41:03] That's what you look like in your life in the middle of the day. And let's meet each other and talk and say, you know, okay, hey, here's how I got here, here's maybe you can make partnerships, you know. I, it's as musicians, nobody does one thing.

[41:17] Right.

[41:18] Alvin Hough,, Jr: You know, it's like I work on one show only, and I can only do one specific thing. That will get you nowhere. Exactly. You never know. People could be writing their own stuff, they could be orchestrating, they could be arranging, they could be who knows, they could be working at a school, working at an academia, you know, whatever. There's so many connections to be made, and we want to put, you know, these professionals in into we've had a workshop a couple of weeks ago with some super subs, people who've subbed on dozens of shows, like to get that experience, like, hey, talk about how you got there.

[41:49] We have one, it is next Wednesday about with um contractors, uh folks who help to put the band together, yeah. And you know, to introduce them, you know, put faces to names, hey and say here's some people that haven't quite cracked in, you know, they meet them, get to know them. We have a panel in November with music directors to talk to uh MDs, see how they've helped to put bands together and what they're looking for in subs.

[42:14] And then in December, we gosh, this industry is so cruel. I've subbed, and it is one of the scariest things in the world. I want, I, I, I don't know who's listening, but can you imagine a job where you're okay? Let me, let me, can you imagine. I don't know, you're the Lakers, and you got LeBron and AD, and they're playing, they got and they got their team, and then LeBron.

[42:48] Well, I, I would trust LeBron's judge.

[42:51] Alvin Hough,, Jr: But he's not the best example. Let's see who, uh look, D'Angelo Russell says, Well, one of my boys, uh, he I, I, I was playing with him on the street last night. He did this move. I would bring him in, he's gonna play on the starting five, he's gonna play tomorrow night against the Nuggets.

[43:07] And you just drop him, you just drop him in the lineup.

[43:10] Yeah, no cook, no, no, no practice, no coaching, and you just say, blow the whistle, play the game. Uh and you better win. Of course, that would never, I mean, I'm hard pressed. Somebody find me an in, uh a job where you can do that. What's asked of people who sub on Broadway is absolutely insane.

[43:33] The thing is, we're all good, we make it work, but there's an orchestra of who knows, 15 people, and Trombone 2 says, I want to go on a vacation with my family. I'm gonna take a taking or I want to whatever. I'm sick. I want a night off. It is that person's job to find their own subs off the clock to teach them, to show them the part, to make sure they can play it well, to have them come in and watch the book and watch what the conductor's doing.

[44:05] And you're in a pit, you're in somebody else's space. Like, is there not enough um room over your head? Like you have to duck to get to your space.

[44:14] Right, right, right.

[44:15] Alvin Hough,, Jr: Do you have elbow room? Um, what's down around your feet? Carpet. Does someone spill water? Like there are all these things that can go wrong, but yet at 8 o'clock, when that downbeat comes from the conductor, you if the conductor closed his eyes or her eyes, they should say, I can't tell any difference.

[44:34] It sounds like the normal guy is here.

[44:36] Right.

[44:37] Alvin Hough,, Jr: You have to be just as good, if not better, than the person you're replacing, and you have to come in, no rehearsal with the orchestra, no time with the conductor. Right. You're wearing headphones because some, a lot of these times the pits, the people are split up. The drummer might be on the sixth floor, and it's just patched in, and people are split up, and you gotta wear headphones, and you how do you play with people and you're not even sitting next to them?

[45:00] The odds are against you. And it is so nerve-wracking, and you're supposed to just first time, bam, nail it. And the thing is, well, we don't if we're trying to give people who haven't had access and haven't had the chance to get their break, we want to give them a chance, throwing them to the wolves like that may not be the best, the smartest thing.

[45:21] So in December, we want to have a final project, and we're going to.

[45:25] Oh, I'm excited. I'll be honest, I'm a little nervous because never been done before. So, so but we want to recreate a pit setting at the union.

[45:37] Okay.

[45:37] Alvin Hough,, Jr: And we'll bring in, I don't know, a small orchestra, eight, ten, twelve, fifty. We'll figure out what the size of the exact numbers, but we're going to bring in orchestra parts. We're gonna have a setup on the stage, and we're gonna have pick a conductor, any conductor, have a few conductors come down, we'll pick famous songs from any show, and we'll have parts on the stand.

[45:59] And we'll have the chairholders that have been the leaders for this first round, they'll all play, and we'll have the visiting professionals, they'll each sit in. It's like great, we'll have a full orchestra, and you go over there on Trombone 2. You're gonna play with this orchestra as if it was a real performance.

[46:20] Right. We have headphones, we have all the setup and everything, and just to give people a shot to say, like, this is what you're getting yourself into. It's not easy. Um, but to do it in a lower setting of lower stakes, like no one's gonna get fired from this.

[46:33] I mean, we've heard stories when people come in and they, you know, don't do well and they get the opportunity. Never work again.

[46:40] Right, you know, that's the thing, word of mouth. Like we don't, we're not trying to put anyone who's ill-prepared. You know, we're not trying to cut any corners and slide people up who don't belong. We want to give people that the access and then the training and the guidance to say, hey, you can do this.

[46:57] Here's what you've done well, here's what you can do better with. Um, and that's our big December 5th project.

[47:03] And of all when all goes well.

[47:06] Yes, man, we're gonna speak it into existence.

[47:08] Right.

[47:08] Alvin Hough,, Jr: We'll do a second program, we'll do a third program, and we're just trying to get just to make the pool a little bit bigger. Not trying to steal anybody's job, but we're just trying to prepare folks because all the, and I love, I don't, there're plenty of white-haired gentlemen that I know who are amazing at their jobs, but they won't be playing forever.

[47:28] What's the next generation look like? Um, how are we, we're making the casts on stage more diverse?

[47:36] We're telling stories that are, you know, are not necessarily your typical, you know, run of the mill store. We're telling stories in of other cultures of other ethnicities, and it's like we should have players who can also, you know, like I let me put it to you like this.

[47:55] Um, don't know this is one of your prepared questions or not, but um, it just hit me. I, I, I want to say this.

[48:03] As a black man, I was very appreciative of what theater had given to me in New York. Back home in DC, I'd done a lot of different things. Um, but in New York, I like I said, Dreamgirls was my break.

[48:20] I did Memphis, I did Motown.

[48:23] Yeah.

[48:24] Alvin Hough,, Jr: I was at the Color Purple with Jennifer Hudson and Cynthia Erivo. I did Once on This Island with Haley Kilgore. Do you see a pattern? I did Tina.

[48:33] Mm-hmm.

[48:31] Do you see a pattern?

[48:35] Yes, uh yes, I yes.

[48:36] Alvin Hough,, Jr: These are wonderful shows, but someone could easily label them as black shows.

[48:36] Black shows.

[48:42] Mm-hmm.

[48:44] Alvin Hough,, Jr: And as we talked about in the beginning, I can play Chopin.

[48:49] Right.

[48:49] Exactly.

[48:50] But has anybody asked me? Does folks, does one ask the right questions? Does one put themselves in the right position to say, you're a musician, hey, what's your skill set?

[49:04] Alvin.

[49:05] Or do you say, you're a musician, I see that you're black, go play me some gospel. Go play me some jazz.

[49:10] Right.

[49:12] You said we were gonna be real.

[49:14] No, I agree.

[49:15] No.

[49:15] Alvin Hough,, Jr: I, that that is yes.

[49:18] Um all of that.

[49:19] Yes.

[49:21] And I, you know, I go back, I go back further. My high school in DC was 95% black.

[49:28] And it was a magnet school, and it was training us to go to big places. Like a lot of folks went to Morehouse and Spelman. Folks went to Columbia, went to Brown. I went to Harvard, like they were, you know, training us to go to big places.

[49:44] And I got into Harvard, and of course, like 18, 19-year-old Alvin is like, well, I know I was valedictorian. I know I'm smart.

[49:52] Mm-hmm. Am I partially here because of what my skin looks like?

[49:57] I knew that's where you were going.

[49:59] Yes.

[49:59] Alvin Hough,, Jr: Yeah, you know.

[50:00] And I had to wrestle with that. And I had to convince myself, nope, no, I'm, I can hang with these folks. I can, I'm, I'm okay.

[50:10] And musically speaking, it's like, well, yeah, can I play, you know, gospel and, you know, and RB chord changes and, you know, play Motown stuff?

[50:19] Yes. But am I a good enough musician to hang why, why, why can't I play Oklahoma?

[50:26] Right.

[50:26] Alvin Hough,, Jr: Or Cinderella. Why, why can't I?

[50:29] Um, so it was a pleasure. I'm gonna bring this real full circle. I told you the MD of that Dreamgirls Tour 15, 14 years ago was Sam Davis.

[50:38] Right.

[50:39] Alvin Hough,, Jr: Sam Davis was the music supervisor and co-orchestrator of New York, New York.

[50:47] That was just on Broadway.

[50:48] Mm-hmm.

[50:50] Alvin Hough,, Jr: And he asked me a couple years ago, hey, do you want to do a reading of this show? And he called me because he knew what the show was asking for.

[51:01] Mm-hmm.

[51:02] Alvin Hough,, Jr: Um, and he asked me to conduct. I, I was a stick conductor, only conductor, wasn't playing. But I was in charge of a 19-piece orchestra once it got to Broadway.

[51:12] And he asked me to come do a show. Period.

[51:18] Right.

[51:20] Alvin Hough,, Jr: And that I don't know, that did something to me. That changed me.

[51:26] Yes.

[51:27] Alvin Hough,, Jr: That a white man asked me, a black man to just come and do a show. Not to come do Motown. And I have no slight against it though.

[51:35] Alvin Hough,, Jr: And my career's been no, I know it. But just to say New York New York had Afro-Cuban music in it. It had these wonderful classical montages of that painted a beautiful scene in three minutes. Didn't no one said a word and you got the story through the classical music. It had traditional theater. It had, yeah, it had it, it had so many different styles and genres. It was just, it was theater. It was a little bit of everything and it was absolutely amazing to be on that show.

[52:11] Alvin Hough,, Jr: You know, isn't it nice to just be seen?

[52:14] Gennean Scott: Yeah.

[52:15] Alvin Hough,, Jr: Yeah, it's like I think yes and it's like can I do Motown and yes I can but I can also do and it it's and that's what we want to give people, you know, through Muse through BMAP to say hey you might have a skill set that's very comfortable. But guess what? Maybe Broadway's in that skill set too. Come see if you, you know, want to go to learn our language to learn a different way of, you know, because there are amazing musicians, people who could play me under the, you know, under the bus, you know, jazz wise. Like I'm I'm not the greatest jazz player. I've been to Smoke and I've been to Blue Note and I've seen amazing, you know, you know, I'm I'm no Brad Meldow, I know that.

[53:00] Alvin Hough,, Jr: Um, but can they step into our world? As fantastic as they are in their own niche, you know, there's a different language. If I'm conducting something and I'm in something called a Vamp, if you don't know what a VAMP is, then you're, then you know, you have to watch for the cue out of the vamp, which I'm taking off of a visual, I'm taking off of a certain, you know, dialogue line of dialogue. And it's just, it's a different way of storytelling. And if you're willing to like kind of open your mind a little bit, there's some very talented people in other genres who, you know, if given the time, given the exposure, could really thrive on Broadway.

[53:36] Alvin Hough,, Jr: Um, and that's that's what we want to see. And like give them that training, that access to start the bottom, get in, see things, be an assistant, be a sub, work their way up, and um hopefully realize hey, I can I can have a successful career doing this stuff too.

[53:54] Gennean Scott: Right.

[53:55] Alvin Hough,, Jr: You made my belly hurt because it's so it's so true. And specifically Broadway, when when you are a person of color, and I'm making a broad generalization here, but I I nine times out of ten, you get pigeonholed as jazz, RB, hip hop, even even though hip hop can be mostly, you know, um that uh you know I'm trying to do like scratch you know but either way it and but I know so many and you and I had talked before I know so many black musicians like I have a cousin who plays for the Dallas Symphony. I know so many black musicians who are classically trained but just like you said hardly if ever asked to do anything in that genre and to the point where they feel discouraged and they don't want to take that leap, you know, and so to have programs like Muse and to have programs like BMAP out there I think it it's showing it's showing people who who have been marginalized or historically shut out um that there's an avenue and there's a there's a family and there's a there's a community that's there that's uh waiting to embrace you which is why I was super excited when I received the email about you know BMAP and coming together because and I said that I think when we first met this this is this is a game changer and it lets it lets individuals who look like us know that there is a space for you and this is community.

[55:50] Alvin Hough,, Jr: And I think it's important to have like I feel folks in any, you know, marginalized community color, gender, whatever you want to say. Like understand like the trials they have to go through in order to succeed.

[56:10] Gennean Scott: But it's important to have allies on the other side.

[56:13] Alvin Hough,, Jr: Exactly. Which is why I I was touched with Mary Mitchell and Stephen Reeves came to to us and said, We want to form a coalition with you. We want to be your allies. We we can't change the industry, like and you can't do it alone. So as white people, we want to help you. Like I think it's important. Uh Muse's um one of our sister organizations is Maestra.

[56:35] Alvin Hough,, Jr: And I know George's did well, and Mary Mitchell uh helps over there. And to say women water space in pits too. And it's they can't do it alone. They need help from men to say no. I know an amazing, and like, you know, we and don't don't put all the women in the string section. Please. Don't say the women they're gonna play the flutes and the cellos, and that's it. It's like, no, give me, give me a well, I don't know what you get out. A bad ass. Give me a bad badass guitar. And I know female guitar players that are great and bass players and drummers who can do that.

[57:07] Gennean Scott: Yeah.

[57:07] Alvin Hough,, Jr: And it's funny when they say it's like, oh, well, we're doing X, you know, whatever. Like we're doing a black show. Oh, wouldn't it be nice if we could have a pit that also you know that's looks black like the cast? And then all of a sudden we see all these people. It's like, oh, where'd these people come from? Or if you're doing six, that's like we want all female orchestra. Great, we found all these women. And then it's like, well, now we're gonna do Oklahoma. Where the women go? Where the black people go? You found you found them for, you know, you know, noise funk, and you found them for you know, for six. But how come you can't use them for Oklahoma anything else?

[57:52] Alvin Hough,, Jr: You know, um, you know? Um and so it's it's nice, like I that that pit in New York, New York, man, we were 19 plus me. But I could look down and I saw everybody. Like the pit looked like the city. It looked like New York. I mean to quote white men in the pit. It's not like we were saying no white men allowed.

[58:10] Gennean Scott: Right.

[58:10] Alvin Hough,, Jr: But we had we had females, we had people of color, but it looked like the pit. I mean, look, look like the city. Um that you get you get in the subway, you see everybody. Um and that's like one of the things I want to teach my kids. Like, we I'm I'm hoping not to leave the city. Everyone's like, hey, Al, when you when you're moving to Jersey, when are you moving to West Chester? I'm like, no man, I'm I'm hoping that you know, being married to a doctor and having a successful career myself, hopefully we can put it together enough coin to stay on the island and ride the subway and see everybody.

[58:42] Alvin Hough,, Jr: See all the colors, all the shapes, all the sizes, everything, and just to teach my kids like people, everybody's different, but we're all people. We're all just trying to get to work, or we're trying to get to the game, we're all going someplace to try to make a difference.

[58:55] Gennean Scott: Yeah.

[58:55] Alvin Hough,, Jr: And that's that's all that matters.

[58:57] Gennean Scott: That's beautiful.

[58:58] Alvin Hough,, Jr: And and that exactly.

[59:00] Alvin Hough,, Jr: I mean, our community should our community should look uh not just like us. Our community should look like everybody and everyone who is supporting and helping to edify and push these types of things forward.

[59:14] Gennean Scott: Right.

[59:15] Gennean Scott: So um, I thank you. I have one final question.

[59:18] Alvin Hough,, Jr: Oh, okay, sure.

[59:19] Gennean Scott: All right. Fire when ready.

[59:22] Gennean Scott: What is one piece of advice that you'd like to offer the future black leaders of Broadway?

[59:31] Gennean Scott: And if you could talk, you know, from uh uh MD perspective and just as a leader on Broadway.

[59:40] Alvin Hough,, Jr: Sure. Um, obviously great question. Um I don't know if this is simple or it's you know, in a way, a lot of things are controlled by other people. Someone calls you for a gig, you get in a rehearsal, you know, you think things are moving around. And th there's a lot going on, but so much has to go on with you. So much you the the conversations you have with yourself, the hopefully the trust you have in whatever you've studied, however you've practiced, whatever all the hours you put in to get to whatever spot you're in at the moment to say, I do belong, and to have that confidence, and as you heard from me, mine has wavered. I mean it still wavers, like it's it it's not like one day you're gonna wake up and the confidence is gonna click and you're always gonna be confident every day in every situation. It's not doesn't work that way.

[1:00:48] Alvin Hough,, Jr: Right. But the like I don't I've I don't forget who wrote the book, but whoever said you need like 10,000 hours of of doing something before you're considered an expert. It's like that's I don't know how many hours I've played piano, far more than 10,000. Um it's like that knowledge of just like if you're committed to doing, you know, to find out if you're committed, number one. Right. And then you know, I I I was lucky enough my mom was the youngest of ten, so I had lots of aunts and uncles, and you know, cousins and grandmas and everything.

[1:01:29] Alvin Hough,, Jr: And something I try to remember it, I'm not saying it's easy. It's like just don't do anything halfway.

[1:01:37] Gennean Scott: Right.

[1:01:38] Alvin Hough,, Jr: Because you know, word of mouth is important and you want to put your best foot forward, but there's so much social media, so much stuff, you know, everybody's not gonna like you. Everybody's not gonna be rooting for you, people gonna say stuff about you behind your back, and you you want as much of it to be positive as possible. But when you know don't don't give people a reason or a uh I don't know, uh uh a way in to say, Ah, see, I told you.

[1:02:10] Alvin Hough,, Jr: Yeah, told you he wasn't ready, she wasn't ready. They're not good enough, XYZ. Just if you give it your all, even even even if the end point isn't what you want, even if you do get fired, even if even if something does go, at least you could say, Well, I gave it everything I had. I didn't shortchange myself, I didn't come in, I didn't show up late, I didn't give a half performance, I didn't let someone you know see see my weak side, like I came in, I was prepared, I you know, I did what was was what was required of me, you know, if not a little bit more, went a little above and beyond.

[1:02:45] Alvin Hough,, Jr: Like I said, I gave it everything, and at least if something does go wrong, at least you can walk up with your head held up high. But hopefully, coming coming with your A game will say, Oh, I underestimated you. Or someone will say, Oh, I didn't know you could do that. And then hopefully that helps you the next time. They're like, Oh, well, Alvin could do this thing that I didn't know he could do. Let me call him for a gig that requires that next time.

[1:03:09] Alvin Hough,, Jr: Um, so you know, aim to impress, show up early. I can still hear my uncle saying to be to be early is to be on time, to be on time is to be late. I could hear I can still hear him saying that he's been gone for many years, but I can still hear it's and it's it's real.

[1:03:24] Alvin Hough,, Jr: It is real, and like those little things of getting there early and just showing people that you care, that you're committed to the project that really goes um goes a long way.

[1:03:37] Gennean Scott: I love it.

[1:03:39] Gennean Scott: Well, thank you.

[1:03:40] Gennean Scott: Thank you, thank you.

[1:03:41] Gennean Scott: It has been wonderful chatting with you, and I look forward to all the all the work and all the successes that Muse and BMAP and that you personally will have uh on Broadway.

[1:03:57] Alvin Hough,, Jr: Thank you.

[1:03:58] Alvin Hough,, Jr: Thank you.

[1:03:58] Gennean Scott: It's been a pleasure.

[1:04:00] Gennean Scott: I want to thank our guest and you our listeners. You could have been doing anything else, but you chose to spend your time with me, and I am grateful.

[1:04:09] Gennean Scott: Be sure to subscribe at BPN.fm slash bbb, so you'll never miss an episode.

[1:04:17] Gennean Scott: While you're at it, tell a friend. I'm your host, Gennean Scott, and we at the Broadway League hope you enjoyed this episode of the Black Business of Broadway.