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[0:00] Gennean Scott: My goal as resident director has been to break open those doors to invite everybody to the party, essentially, because I'm like, this space is great. This stage is huge, and we should have access to it, and we should be inside of it, and we should be in that party, please. Come on. This is New York City.

[0:23] Welcome to the Black Business of Broadway, a podcast brought to you by the Broadway League and Black to Broadway. Here we highlight the stories, how-tos, and successes of the Black professionals and legends of Broadway. I am your host, Gennean Scott.

[0:46] I am thrilled to be chatting today with Lileana Blain-Cruz, who is the resident director at Lincoln Center Theater. She is making her Broadway debut in directing Thornton Wilder's The Skin of Our Teeth. Welcome.

[1:00] Lileana Blain-Cruz: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

[1:03] Gennean Scott: Of course. It's a total no-brainer. I mean, really, let's be honest. There are not very many women of color who are directing, let alone Black women directors. But we can we'll get into that. I promise. We'll get into that. Um, but before I jump into The Skin of Our Teeth and all that you have done with that family and how timely those changes are, I want to talk about you. I want to talk about your journey and how you got to where you are today.

[1:38] Lileana Blain-Cruz: Amazing. Where should I start? Um, okay, so I mean, I guess I can give like the rundown of how I ended up as a director. I grew up in New York City and Queens. Um, but I moved around a lot as a kid and I lived in New York and I lived in Miami and North Carolina for a short stint, and then back in New York. I went to school at Princeton, and it was at Princeton. I was an English major, and I didn't really know what that meant. I just knew that I loved books, and I happened to fall into theater. And somehow I realized, like, oh, this is a marriage of all of the art forms that I love.

[2:17] And the first play that I directed, which is moving to me because it's happening now, was For Colored Girls Who Have Considered Suicide When the Rainbow Is Enough. And so the fact that it's happening now at this moment in my career, it feels very moving because you can see a journey, you can see a cycle, you can see what inspired you to do theater in the first place. Like that play was my invitation and a recognition of myself and knowing that I could exist in that space, particularly because I was very new to theater. I didn't really know what theater was. I was like, oh, this is interesting. Oh, is this a job?

[2:51] So I went down to Arena Stage, and that's where I had my N D C and I had my brutal awakening of how there's no money when you first start out. And that was tricky, that was really hard. But I knew that I really wanted to work in this medium, and I had a wonderful mentor while I was there, Paulette Randall, who actually is a wonderful Black director based in London, and her joy and enthusiasm in welcoming me into the process again encouraged my dedication to the field.

[3:27] Um, I came back up to New York and I realized, oh, I don't have networks, I don't have an income, I need to work to survive. Like, how are people making stuff who have no chance? You go through that catch-22 of everybody's like, cool, show us your work. And if you don't have time or space or money or friends to make work, then how do you do it? And so the way that came to me was actually to go to grad school. One, because I needed time, space, resources, and two, I needed a foundation in the actual making of theater in a real way.

[4:01] And so I went to what was then called the Yale School of Drama. Um, and I saw amazing, again, there were amazing women before me. Charlotte Braithwaite is an amazing experimental theater director, and she was in the class before me. And through working at Yale, I was able to build a repertoire of work that then led to connections to other institutions, such as Yale Rep and Oregon Shakespeare Festival that then brought me back to New York, where I worked at New York Theater Workshop as a 2050 fellow, and then at Lincoln Center and the Lincoln Center Directors Lab.

[4:39] And so that's kind of like my long journey from, you know, what is theater to actually starting to make a career in it.

[4:47] Gennean Scott: Yeah, you know, can you do you mind backing up just a little? And you talked about having a mentor, and how can you talk about the role that mentors have played maybe in your life?

[5:03] Lileana Blain-Cruz: Yeah, I mean, when I did that fellowship, I really didn't know what it meant to make theater. Like, for example, they have technical rehearsals. I didn't know what that was, you know, as an undergrad, you know what it means to kind of be working late in the theater, but professionally your day ends at like 11 p.m. at night, right? And the trains stop in DC, unlike New York. And so I was like, oh, it's not stopped for me to go home, right? Because my train ends and nobody needs me here, right? I almost got fired. I almost got fired because I didn't know what I was supposed to stay for the production meeting. But that was my job.

[5:40] Um, so having a mentor is somebody who can who has no problem answering all of your questions, who is open about what it means to actually live and work in the field, somebody who encourages your questions, encourages your creativity, somebody who shows you a path of what does it mean to be in charge. And what I loved about Paulette is that her mode of operation was one of huge generosity. Like she was just so generous to everybody, and I had had some experiences in that process where people were not generous, where people thought that they had to, I mean, be tough, be hard, you know what I mean? As the exam trauma they had been through, and she was somebody who was like, oh, we can have a good time. This is why we're doing the theater because there's joy inside of that.

[6:32] And she provided a welcoming space for us. We were doing Gem of the Ocean at the time, and so it was just a wonderful company of actors. Pascal Armand was in the company, and she was wonderful. And so for me, having a powerful mentor was an example of ways in which it's possible to lead the room with kindness, and I carried that with me, you know.

[7:01] Gennean Scott: I love that. I love that. So, in looking at, you know, you are now the resident director there at Lincoln Center Theater. What does that role entail? What is that exactly?

[7:14] Lileana Blain-Cruz: Yeah, I mean, a resident director. There are very few positions like that in reality. And Lincoln Center as an institution carries a particular kind of weight in that you think of New York, there aren't that many plazas, there aren't that many actual locations in which art is centralized in that way with the Metropolitan Opera, with the Philharmonic, with Lincoln Center Theater, with the ballet. And so to kind of be able to occupy a space like that as a resident director, I get to direct one play a year in that theater.

[7:48] And that kind of guarantee of consistency is also unique as an artist in New York. I've worked freelance what feels like forever. And so to have that base is tremendous. And so I feel also a tremendous responsibility. And so my goal as resident director has been to break open those doors to invite everybody to the party, essentially, because I'm like, this space is great. This stage is huge. Yes.

[8:23] Come on. This is New York City. Not only that, but Lincoln Center Theater, you know, cut down a lot of houses and a lot of homes when it was first built, you know, of the constituents of New York City, Black and brown Puerto Rican folks up there. And so for me, it's been really exciting to be like, okay, we can reclaim this space. We can reclaim this, you know, this massive plaza as an art space for us as well.

[8:48] Gennean Scott: Yes, I love it. And so you are, so you chose The Skin of Our Teeth, a family that follows every family through its great struggles and triumphs of the human experience. I mean, this family goes through wars, plagues, floods, food, famine, and you put it on the bodies of Black folks that, without like necessarily hitting people over the head, it's like you walk in and you're just like, oh my gosh, and it reads so much differently. Can you talk to the audience about the how and the why? How were you able to get that done and why was that important to you?

[9:40] Lileana Blain-Cruz: I mean, I have all kinds of, I mean, I can go there with all kinds, like with Savinah and how she starts, but I want you to talk about how and why you chose to do that.

[9:51] Yeah, I mean, I want to hear your thoughts too, but you know, it felt we've been through so much, just everybody over the course of this pandemic, and I was looking for a play that was gonna be able to embrace the fact that we've all experienced what felt like the end of the world, literally. I don't know. If you were in New York, I remember the silence, and then all of a sudden helicopters and feeling like I was occupied because we were protesting. You know what I mean? And I was like, this is crazy.

[10:31] Um, and that, and then people dying. People we would literally experienced what descriptions of plague were. People passing trucks for people passing, and there was no room in hospitals. Like the trauma of that is still present within our bodies, and we speak as though we're able to kind of just move through that to get to the routine. But I'm sorry, that lives inside of us, that is inside of our DNA, and then on top of that, we realize that like, oh, we as humans, and then particularly as Black folks have experienced that to the almost the entirety of history.

[11:10] And so when I was thinking about who is going to occupy this everyman, who is going to occupy the space of people who have survived, yes, people who have survived, and not only survived, but invented, created culture, like thrived, made music, you know what I mean?

[11:31] Lileana Blain-Cruz: Like who is the testament to human possibility? It is black folks, you know, and like the the the enormous the enormity and infinity of our existence for me felt like it could bring new life and new understanding and new testament to the miracle of survival on a stage like the Beaumont, and so that was that was where the the impulse and the desire came from, not only just to kind of break open the doors of Lincoln Center Theater, but to reactivate like the fact that human beings continue to persist, you know, and at the same time can like push up against and question, you know what I mean? Who's been allowed to exist in that space before?

[12:14] Lileana Blain-Cruz: Like I for me, it's funny. Like you mentioned Sabina. Like I love that Sabina breaks open the play, it's like, I hate this play. Yes, I hate this play everywhere in it. What does it mean? What are we talking about? What are we actually saying? That is incredible to me because then because then we're in dialogue, not only about our experience of survival, but our experience of like, what does it mean to make theater and why are we making theater and who is it for? And how do we, you know, how do we wrestle with all of these questions?

[12:45] Lileana Blain-Cruz: Well, and not only that though, it when she when she said that, I was like, at first I was like, what is this? What am I what it what is going on here? You know? And then afterwards, you know, after after after the third act, and I'm in my car and I'm processing. And I'm just like, there are times as as especially given the dual pandemics, and then you talk about the the uh the insurrection that occurred, and I think about and just how it was like not that I hate, you know, not that I hate it here, but just that black fatigue and that always having to reinvent and always having to wake up and because it's just like you you experience this catastrophe through in this play. You experience this catastrophe, and then you have to, you know, and then at the end, Sabina, she's dusting like nothing.

It's like here we go again. And it's like, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, is this not life? Is this not life being reflected? And isn't that what art is? And it's and it's about it not being so bolded in your face that it's like, oh, okay, this and this. It's where you actually start to process and it gives the audience. This is my take, I'm sorry, it gives the audience, um, members like myself an opportunity to just sit there and and and wonder and and have to actually unpack and to the fact that the the family it's it's a black family that every family is a black family. And for people to recognize that we are we are human and I mean like that in itself but not only that we are human but we we've experienced and we experienced these exact same things that many of you experience but then again to have it to be on these black bodies and there is a line where she talks about uh Mr. um Mr. Antrobus being you know tensing up with the police and wondering if he's going to make it home and I know that that that's original you know and so it's like look it it's the same but but it reads differently on our bodies and so I I so appreciated that so I appreciated that so much and I I am grateful and thankful that you picked this that you pick this play to to put on to put on these to put on this stage.

[15:29] Lileana Blain-Cruz: So I'll stop talking. Hold everyone it is it is possible and capable of being seen as as fundamentally human, you know. And you talk about act three, which it it's the one that that that hit me the hardest when I was choosing because Mr. Antrobus says this line, um, I have never forgotten that living is a struggle, you know? Just like the exist the act of existing is so hard, and yet we have to we have to we have to keep going. And then Sabina's line, the world is an awful, awful place. You know what I mean? The fundamental truths of that, you know, like the the the reality of of how hard it can be, the reality of continuing to move forward, the feeling of I think Mr. Antrobus says, I I lost it, I lost it, I lost the desire to go on.

And I was like, oh, I don't know who didn't feel that after after seeing cycles of the same stuff over and over and over again within our own lifetimes to be like, do we have to go through this again? Again, really? We didn't learn, and and yet, and yet we pick up and start again. And it's and it's yeah, that was really moving to me. So to hear that reflected is um is exciting. Thank you.

[17:00] Lileana Blain-Cruz: Yeah, yeah. No, it it was, and then how we're bringing out the books, and it's and it at the end, and we're it really he's he's looking, we're we're bringing out these books and the knowledge, and you know, to me, I was just like, it's it's history, and we're not in history repeating itself over and over again in different ways because have we really learned? Yeah, and that that's kind of how I walked away feeling, and and it made me like, have we have we really learned? I mean, it it it it we really are repeating the same things in different ways, and you know, I know that this story it takes place over 5,000 years, but some things are still the same yeah and and I look at this and I look at our history and and some things are still the same um so I I want to know what are you looking forward to you know af after this not that we want this to end but after this after this uh residency you know what is what do you see next what do you see for for the future you know it's um it's it's an interesting question because uh you work um you work so hard inside of a piece for so long you know what I mean and and so like you realize oh wow theater is so fleeting it's only gonna last until the 29th and then this whole world this whole universe that we've created will disappear and um and that relates to me to to the question of of the artist and the the question of what does it mean to make um I'm working on this piece right now called Dreaming Zanzile and it's about the South African singer um Miriam Makebam and part of the journey of this is this woman who's been singing her whole life and has been you know a huge activist against apartheid she doesn't she this is her like this is kind of essentially without giving too much away like the the last concert before she dies but she's not willing to go because she's aware that the fight still continues right like literally the per like they're not ready we're still doing the same stuff.

You know what I mean? Like we have to fight. I have to keep singing. You know, like that. I have to keep, I have to keep moving forward so that the same things don't happen. I'm just like, I'm I'm discovering this in the moment that this this is part of the zeitgeist, right? That in the midst of all of these obstacles, like she was exiled from her home for most of her life, you know, like not even able to go home to her mom's funeral. And yet she persisted in singing, persisted in like speaking, you know, truth to power, you know, in front of the UN. And I'm like, right, like that's that's part of the journey forward. It's in some ways I'm excited about finding new mediums to express this idea of our search for justice, our search for our search for um love, um, and ways in which we can kind of open up our our collective hearts to kind of work towards at least changing a little bit, you know.

Like we're there is so much stuff happening right now. You know, that like if if we get if we get tired, and it's so understandable, like you said, you talked about that fatigue, you talked about that exhaustion, which is so real, but then there's the testament to these leaders, um, like Miriam McCava, you know, like all of these folks who, even in the midst of that exhaustion, picked up and kept going. And so that that for me is inspiring to think about stories and ways of folks who have managed to persist um despite the overwhelming exhaustion.

[20:52] Gennean Scott: That's awesome. So we like to wrap each podcast and we ask our guests to if they could give advice to the future black leaders of Broadway. What would that be?

[21:04] Lileana Blain-Cruz: Okay, I have so much advice. One, it is possible to be kind. There is enough space. You are unique simply from the fact that no one like you exists. And I think sometimes we feel this pressure as though we have to be in competition with each other, as though if I exist, you can't exist. No, there can be more than one or two or three or five of us in a room. And actually, if we celebrate each other and meet each other with love, that is exciting because then you have a foundational base of friends growing up together. And that is beautiful and less lonely and will change the field. So keep going. Say yes to yourself. Trust in the expansiveness of your imagination. Be excited about things maybe you haven't seen. Build the theater that you want to see.

[21:58] Gennean Scott: I love it. I love it. And I thank you. I thank you. I thank you again for taking time out of your busy schedule to chat with us.

[22:04] Lileana Blain-Cruz: Thank you.

[22:15] Gennean Scott: Thank you so much. I want to thank our guest and you, our listeners. You could have been doing anything else, but you chose to spend your time with me, and I am grateful. Be sure to subscribe at BPN.fm slash BBB. So you'll never miss an episode. While you're at it, tell a friend. I'm your host, Gennean Scott, and we at the Broadway League hope you enjoyed this episode of the Black Business of Broadway.