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[0:07] Jesse McInally: Hello, I'm Jesse McInally.

[0:09] Andrew DeWolf: And I'm Andrew DeWolf.

[0:11] Brianna Jones: And I'm Brianna Jones.

[0:13] Jesse McInally: And welcome to Musicals with Cheese, the podcast where I try to get Andrew and Bree to like musical theater.

[0:18] Jesse McInally: My god, you guys. You know what month that is?

[0:22] Brianna Jones: Um, well, it's uh Maypril.

[0:26] Andrew DeWolf: It's June, which means it's Pride Month!

[0:32] Brianna Jones: Said Maple?

[0:34] Jesse McInally: Yeah, we don't know.

[0:38] Andrew DeWolf: We do not totally record our episodes much further in advance.

[0:42] Jesse McInally: Um, yes, this is our first episode in Pride Month.

[0:45] Brianna Jones: Um, it's not completely related.

[0:47] Jesse McInally: Um, because the schedules are badly planned.

[0:51] Jesse McInally: Um here's a bad joke. But it is a part of Pride Month because it's about a lion pride. Happy Pride Month!

[1:00] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, that's you know, like Simba was raised by two dads.

[1:05] Brianna Jones: Three dads become the fasa.

[1:07] Jesse McInally: It's a real full hide situation. The Timon and Pumba situation, I can't deny there's something prideful going on there.

[1:14] Jesse McInally: So happy Pride Month, guys! This week we're talking about the Lion King on Broadway.

[1:20] Brianna Jones: King of the music, Brie.

[1:21] Andrew DeWolf: Hakuna Matata.

[1:24] Jesse McInally: What a wonderful phrase.

[1:31] Brianna Jones: Ain't no passing craze.

[1:35] Andrew DeWolf: It means no worries for the rest of your day.

[1:42] Jesse McInally: It's our problem free.

[1:50] Jesse McInally: So this is actually a Patreon request um by a new um high tier patron called Mitchell the Young. So thank you, Mitchell, for the donation and the request.

[1:58] Jesse McInally: Um they just wanted anything from this Tony season, and I picked Lion King because I thought it would get the most downloads.

[2:05] Andrew DeWolf: And boy are you correct on that one.

[2:09] Jesse McInally: Um but The Lion King is a musical with music by Elton John, Lebo M, Mark Mancina, Jay Rifkin, Hans Zimmer, Julie Taymor's, and Robert Ilhy, and lyrics by Tim Rice.

[2:22] Jesse McInally: Um, based on a book by Roger Allers and Irene Mechie. Um, it is based on The Lion King um by Walt Disney Animation Studios.

[2:31] Jesse McInally: The musical debuted July 8th, 1997 at the Minneapolis, Minnesota soda at the Orpheum Theater, and was successful before premiering on Broadway at the New Amsterdam Theater on October 15th, 1997 in previews, with the official opening on November 13th, 1997.

[2:48] Jesse McInally: Now, I'm gonna stop here because I uh fuck it, I'll put it way until later. It is literally the most profitable thing that Disney has ever made.

[2:56] Jesse McInally: It is like beyond Avengers Endgame, Avatar, all that. It is the most profitable thing like ever made.

[3:02] Andrew DeWolf: How much money did it make?

[3:04] Jesse McInally: 8.1 billion dollars as of 2017.

[3:07] Jesse McInally: That's billion with no counting, not even counting the last couple uh seasons.

[3:12] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, so it's been a big thing. But the Lion King is about a a young boy named Simba who is destined to be king and has an evil uncle named Scar who murders his father.

[3:23] Jesse McInally: Then he goes out on his own and is raised by two two men who love each other very much and raise him to be a really good good young man, and then he has to return home and be the king he was meant to be.

[3:36] Jesse McInally: Um after learning a bunch of lessons. So we all know what Lion King is about. Um, but a lot of us don't quite understand the Broadway show.

[3:44] Jesse McInally: Um and Andrew, you just watched it recently. Have you ever seen the live version?

[3:47] Andrew DeWolf: Uh no, I haven't. Sorry.

[3:51] Jesse McInally: So now I have. I usually have a rule on this show that if we are gonna talk about a Disney stage musical, we're gonna basically use it for meme factor.

[4:00] Jesse McInally: Um like Tangled, the Disney show, or like with Frozen on the Disneyland version. This one's got a bit more prestige, I feel like.

[4:10] Jesse McInally: This is I call it baby's first theater, um, because this is proper theater and theatrical tactics used, um, and it just happens to be used for a Disney movie.

[4:20] Jesse McInally: Um I will say it's very accurate to the movie, as far as I remember. We're gonna have a conversation about that, but let's talk about the movie for a bit.

[4:30] Jesse McInally: What did you think about the original '94 movie?

[4:32] Andrew DeWolf: I thought it was really good. I mean, I it came out the year before I was born, so I grew up with it the whole time, you know.

[4:38] Andrew DeWolf: I was a little babby. I was watching it, you know, being indoctrinated into monarchism from from the start, you know.

[4:47] Andrew DeWolf: But yeah, I mean, I mean that's what's going on. It's like it's well made. Elton John's got some good music, and whoever else was in it, I don't know.

[4:56] Andrew DeWolf: James Earl Jones, yeah, he knocked it out of the park. Um Brady. Looks like a lot of people wrote music for this.

[5:02] Jesse McInally: I literally thought you were about to say James Gordon. I was like, no, but um.

[5:06] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, he's gonna be Simba. You have to remember who I am.

[5:11] Andrew DeWolf: He's played a cat, but not that cat.

[5:14] Jesse McInally: Bustafer Jones is his name.

[5:16] Andrew DeWolf: Put respect on that name.

[5:18] Jesse McInally: Respect. What did I think about the Lion King? Is that what you're asking me?

[5:21] Andrew DeWolf: The movie.

[5:22] Jesse McInally: Oh my god. It's iconic. The music is fantastic. Um, I saw I grew up really poor. Um, and I I saw the Lion King, but I had the Lion King one and a half on the real masterpiece.

[5:36] Jesse McInally: The true masterpiece on tape. So I watched it all the time because I couldn't fall asleep without watching TV when I was a kid.

[5:43] Jesse McInally: Um so I've seen The Lion King one and a half more than I've seen the Lion the original, but it's fantastic.

[5:49] Andrew DeWolf: You made the right choice, honestly.

[5:51] Jesse McInally: It is pretty good. I'm uh I'm a be edgy um contrarian. I don't like the Lion King. I don't like it.

[5:57] Jesse McInally: It was bad. I always thought it was bad. I watched it when I was six years old and I walked out of the theater.

[6:06] Jesse McInally: And I thought to myself, I wish there was a girl in a rainbow sweatshirt who was there that I could held hands with and not watch this movie.

[6:16] Brianna Jones: You know what, guys? I like it better when we have guests.

[6:20] Jesse McInally: Okay. Jess, why don't you like the Lion King?

[6:23] Brianna Jones: I honestly, I just think the structure is a little wonky, and I don't particularly find the characters engaging because Simba is one character for the first half, and then he ages into another character.

[6:35] Brianna Jones: It's like there's such a discrepancy between them. It just kind of doesn't engage me the way that something like even Hunchback does, or Aladdin or Mulan.

[6:44] Brianna Jones: Like I feel like all those things has a better clue of what it's trying to do. Where this one I think has some really big themes it wants to play with, but I don't think it successfully does it.

[6:53] Brianna Jones: However, I think the songs and all that are all stellar knockout 100% great. The animation hard to top there.

[7:01] Brianna Jones: Um, I just don't think that the character arcs work the way that they want them to, as well as they want them to. And I feel like this is where it falls in up away from all the rest of the Disney films of that time.

[7:15] Brianna Jones: I think it is one of the weaker ones of the Renaissance, to be honest. That isn't saying it's bad, but I don't like it as much.

[7:22] Brianna Jones: I think it's fine. I I don't know. I think Lion King, it's got some weird elements to it that I'm not a fan of in, you know, like the whole monarchism is good thing, kind of not cool.

[7:35] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. I I agree with that. I also think its use of violence isn't for the it isn't effective.

[7:41] Andrew DeWolf: Like it gives you a big shock when Mufasa dies, but then the film never reaches tones like that again. And people always talk about the tonal issues with hunchback, but you start with the violence and the viol that kind of tone fits with it to the end.

[7:55] Andrew DeWolf: Whereas this you got that one bit of like violence and then corpse dad, and then it's like Hakuna Matata for the rest of the fucking movie.

[8:03] Brianna Jones: What's up with Scar? You know, like Scar, he sh he does the bad thing and then he's the leader and he makes everything fail, but like Scar did he cause a drought?

[8:13] Andrew DeWolf: Did Scar create a drought somehow? Like I mean.

[8:19] Brianna Jones: Oh come on. Like, what did he do wrong though?

[8:22] Andrew DeWolf: It's just a cinematic technique. It's like in Emperor's New Groove when the Panther start chasing him. Does the woods literally turn red?

[8:29] Brianna Jones: Ding.

[8:32] Andrew DeWolf: No, no, no, no, no. The drought directly affects the plot, though.

[8:37] Andrew DeWolf: The drought directly it causes the lionesses to go out and find Simba. I think what he does, or at least this would be the justification of the directors, and here I am defending a film I don't even fucking like that much.

[8:49] Andrew DeWolf: Um the justification would be that they overhunted, which meant the ecosystem left, which meant that a lot of the shit that was naturally occurring wasn't anymore, and therefore a drought.

[8:59] Brianna Jones: I think that would be their defense. That they took more than they needed and therefore lost what they had.

[9:05] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. Broke the circle of life.

[9:07] Brianna Jones: They broke the circle of life because hyenas needed to be put into their place and starve.

[9:13] Andrew DeWolf: Um and if we allowed them to eat, there would be a drought. We'd all die.

[9:19] Brianna Jones: That's not there's the ethical issues right there. I agree, those ethical issues are there, but it I see their logic, and I don't like it either, but I have to kind of see it as Shakespeare text.

[9:32] Jesse McInally: Like for the musical. The stage musical, we're looking at the film as a pretext that this is now adapted as. And as a text being adapted, I think this is an amazing, amazing stage show.

[9:43] Jesse McInally: An absolutely incredible stage show. Everything they needed from the movie, everything they needed from Kimba the White Lion, and they just stuck it into the show.

[9:50] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, motherfucker, you know that's not even true.

[9:57] Jesse McInally: Why am I on the defense of Lion King? I don't like it.

[10:01] Andrew DeWolf: I'm gonna put you on the defense the whole time. Fuck the Lion King. It was garbage. I always hated it.

[10:07] Brianna Jones: What is this episode? Why is this lightning thief again?

[10:12] Jesse McInally: Alright, no. Okay, so let's like let's just talk about the Broadway. No one cares about the movie.

[10:18] Jesse McInally: Everyone likes the movie except Jess, so because Jess probably watched it like last week, whereas when was the last time you saw Lion King, Andrew?

[10:31] Andrew DeWolf: It's like two years ago, maybe.

[10:33] Jesse McInally: Well, not long ago. Then that my point, my point is not valid. I was gonna say he saw it as an adult, so he has.

[10:39] Andrew DeWolf: I saw it as a child, and I will say I liked it as a child because you like everything as a child.

[10:44] Brianna Jones: And I I haven't watched it since I was a child.

[10:46] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. You don't like everything as a child. That's not true.

[10:48] Brianna Jones: That's not true. I watched this one movie where like a kid got eaten by a horse that had spiders in its stomach, and I straight up had nightmares for like weeks, and I did not like it.

[10:58] Andrew DeWolf: You should be watching that shit.

[11:00] Brianna Jones: I forget that.

[11:04] Andrew DeWolf: Spider-Man 2 scared the hell out of me.

[11:07] Brianna Jones: Spider-Man 2 is a masterpiece.

[11:10] Andrew DeWolf: I just the hell out of me. I watched the whole trilogy. You know, I watched two and three, and that was it. I didn't know I did not watch the first one.

[11:16] Brianna Jones: Uh, but they were they are masterpieces.

[11:19] Andrew DeWolf: They are classic. They're pretty good. Why aren't we why are we talking about the Lion King?

[11:24] Jesse McInally: Why can't we talk about Spider-Man 3?

[11:26] Brianna Jones: Hold up, hold up. It is tangentially connected to Spider-Man.

[11:31] Jesse McInally: Um let's talk about the director, this showan who also designed all the costumes like and created all the masks and all that.

[11:38] Jesse McInally: She was the design creator. Um she takes this Disney property, turns it into fucking gold, spins it into eight billion dollars.

[11:46] Jesse McInally: And this is one of those rare times where it is a director dramaturge stepping in there and having this intense impact that's all hers.

[11:54] Jesse McInally: And then about 10 years later, um, she is brought on to a little musical called Spider-Man Turn Off the Dark and given the same carte blanche, and then she turns um Arachne, the the character of Arachne, into a spider creature that um has a shoe shopping number that with spider tap dancing.

[12:15] Andrew DeWolf: Um it's bad. You know it's bad.

[12:17] Brianna Jones: How is how that wasn't even in the show?

[12:19] Jesse McInally: That would have that would have saved it.

[12:21] Andrew DeWolf: Well, that was her version, and then they fired her because she's pretty much an insane person, um, in a good way.

[12:28] Jesse McInally: But then they replaced her with like generic, oh, universal Spider-Man, he's gonna save the day. Look at him swing around.

[12:36] Jesse McInally: Okay. The Broadway Lion King is the movie with really cool costumes and puppets.

[12:42] Jesse McInally: The thing is, we're gonna talk about that, but that is accurate. But let's think about not exactly what this does yet, apart from what it doesn't do. Let's compare this to say Frozen on Broadway, where they have to restructure it, add about an hour of length onto the movie, change everything so that it is literal representation. Instead of just a reindeer being in a movie, they have to make a literal reindeer on stage. They have to make these characters as literal interpretations as they can be on stage. And it's bad. It doesn't work at all.

[13:14] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[13:15] Jesse McInally: Because literalism in theater is like you're missing the fucking point. And whereas with this, she was very much like, you know what, you'll get it if you've seen the movie, if we just put a mask on their heads, you get the representation. Both as king, he is wearing a crown on his head that represents him as lion as well as king. If we put that same mask on his son, you get that he is his son, and there is no confusion there. Instead of having them on four legs, we just have them move in a certain way. And there was ways where they were gonna make it more literal. They were gonna make masks that move their mouth and all that and blink. And they were like, no, it stops you from looking at the humans.

And one of the most important things Julie Taymor's said about this is this is a human story about human characters. We'd never want to hide the human. So no matter what, whether they're playing the grass, whether they're gonna play the antelope, whether they're gonna play like the sky even, even you must always see the human being performing. And they use all these African traits. And yeah, it's cultural appropriation. Not even gonna not even gonna pretend it isn't. But she steals from like Disney, like what are you gonna do?

[14:24] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[14:22] Jesse McInally: She steals from like all these wonderful, like gorgeous looking things to make these traditional African things, African designs and African pieces to create these costumes. And everyone is in every production is real. It is really imported from Africa and hand painted and all that. And their shoes, their feet have to be painted to match their skin tones. So no matter what, even if they get a suntan and all that, they have to be repainted to match that. It is not literal in any way. You will never see like them crawling around like cats. This is a very strong. I think it's really well though. It works really well though, and if it was big costumes, it would feel like a show you'd watch at like a theme park.

[15:09] Andrew DeWolf: Exactly.

[15:10] Jesse McInally: Which I guess they ran the risk of doing that. But think about this. When I think about this musical, do you like do you even think of like added scenes even? Like, do you think about like, oh, there's an entire new plot line here, or oh, here's like shit we didn't need. There's like three new scenes at most, and they're very short when they're there.

[15:28] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, they didn't really add much. I could even be wrong. I haven't I don't remember in the movie. Did they add a small plot where Scar wanted to get a girlfriend?

[15:37] Jesse McInally: Yes. That was a deleted scene from the movie that they just brought over into the musical. That was the only part that I was like, other than some of the new songs, which are noticeable because they're new and not in but outside of that, that was the only part that I was like, well, that's new, I think.

[15:52] Andrew DeWolf: I don't remember that.

[15:54] Jesse McInally: Well, the thing is it transitions from a scene that already existed into this new scene so fucking smoothly that you don't even know that it was new. I think the biggest strength of this is that it basically just feels like the movie. So a lot of people who are not familiar with Broadway and don't really want to invest any energy into learning something new, you could just go see this, and it's just the movie transitioned perfectly onto stage with nothing lost and a lot of things gained, is the thing. You gain this incredible stage design, you gain these incredible puppetries. Of course, but it doesn't ask the audience to learn anything new, yes, or rewrite these characters in your mind.

[16:39] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, it's just like, oh well, I know the Lion King, and then you watch it and you're like, Yes, this is different visually and different with some new songs, but I am completely I know the whole story, and I'm already invested because of that.

[16:53] Jesse McInally: Which I think some critics maybe could say that that's not good, but honestly, audiences are gonna love that most of the time. But let's think about the added songs for a moment. Um we'll talk about them in their own segments, but what they're functioning to do in this musical is to make up for the fact that we don't have the visual medium of animation. So, what is done in the movie with Simba stepping into his father's gigantic paw and seeing his tiny paw to realize how much he has to go about and the shoes that he has to fill eventually. We can't do that visually on stage. So what do we do? We turn it into this gorgeous like song He Lives in You or They Live In You, where he talks about the souls and they expand that moment to explain the duty that he has to fill. It's replacing something that was told visually with something in a song, which is what you're supposed to do. That's what you're supposed to use, these songs for.

[17:45] Andrew DeWolf: I also think the act structure is very good in this, and it might just be because of what you just said you didn't like about the Lion King, but I feel like it fits really well into this. The fact that they kind of have different characters for the first and second act as the lead.

[18:02] Jesse McInally: I agree. I think it works better here because it's a little less jarring. Well, because they literally you take a break, and then when they come back, it's like, okay, well, now we're ready to get into this with the older Simba. I know they introduced the older Simba right before the intermission, I think, but that's still a perfectly good time to do it, I think. But let's a lot of people try to consider act one and act two of musicals two completely separate movies. And with this, you kind of can, and act two is more of a sequel to the first movie as opposed to like a continuation of the story. Like falsettos into the woods, all of them kind of do that. Here they do that. That is their execution for the way to do this.

So act one of the Lion King is a complete story in and of itself. You have this kid that's father dies, his uncle sends him off to be like thinking he's murdered, and he hides out and lives his life away with these two awesome stoner dudes that adopt him as their son. It's like he has his own character arc where he kind of learns to just accept living out somewhere else and just chilling. I think it's the arc is like being king is so much of a responsibility that I don't want. That sounds terrifying now. It's not it's not like a good character arc.

[19:18] Andrew DeWolf: No, but it is an arc. And like for something that's set up to be like a Marvel Cinematic Universe style story where you have the arc going across 20 different movies, but you also have individual arcs within those movies. Let's frame it like that. And then act two is about that guy that's like, I don't want to be king and it's useless, having to return and learn, like, yeah, but you gotta stand up and take responsibility. Two different arcs, two different stories, to both executed perfectly here, where I think they're executed very badly in the movie because both time and the jarringness of like Matthew Broderick stepping in for Jonathan Taylor Thomas.

[19:55] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[19:55] Jesse McInally: I don't think they're executed terribly in the movie, but they do have less time to do it. The Lion King a lot of what makes the Lion King movie good is the visuals.

[20:05] Andrew DeWolf: I agree.

[20:06] Jesse McInally: And the music. I mean, let's talk a bit about the African songs and how they came up. I'm sure we'll break them down a little bit, but the scenes where it's just like we're gonna dance for a bit, we're gonna show you grass and give you some like theatrical splendor for a bit, as opposed to like, let's focus on the plot, because you do need to set up your world in this way. And yeah, Circle of Life does it great, but there's literally an entire song about grass existing here, and they just dance and show you the African tribal dances of grass. And Act Two's opener is just this incredible lioness dance one by one.

[20:45] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, no, they have I think it's a good way to add a bit of time and do some more visual elements with dancing to add these numbers. Um, but they don't they don't progress the story at all, but that's totally fine because every other song does, so yes.

[21:01] Jesse McInally: And because you know the story so well, because everyone's seen the Lion King, you're kind of like, ooh, I'm into this. I like this. Um I know we don't like talking representation too much here because we are a bunch of honkies and like just being like good. I mean, we are what we are. Sorry to say that. Um, but let's talk about the optics of this show really quick and how much it means to a lot of folks in like especially black people that watch this show. Um they see themselves being framed as royalty and being served like all the servant characters are all white people, and although there is not a single black person or a black body being used as a servant or a background player. They are all the portraying like the main people, and the folks like Zazu, the butler, and like all Timon and Pumbaa, the like kind of renegades.

There's no negative black and African stereotypes in this, and just that choice, especially when you have like Jonathan Taylor Thomas and Matthew Broderick in the movie. It is a moving thing to see, and it is something you see very, very rarely.

[22:08] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I mean, I have no issues with it, obviously. I think that it's good, and it's definitely a good thing they did it here, especially with all of the like African culture that they try to implement, you know, to do that and then have a show that's entirely white would be not good optically, obviously.

[22:26] Jesse McInally: No. Do you feel that the Elton John pop songs mesh badly with the like labor and African dancing numbers?

[22:37] Andrew DeWolf: No. And I think the reason that I don't is just because that's part of what the Lion King is, and I don't think that you can separate it, so I kind of feel like it has to be there.

[22:48] Jesse McInally: I agree and disagree, but the thing is they add so many songs that are easily my favorite Lion King song ever written into this musical that I'm like, oh none another Elton John one. Ugh.

[23:00] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know.

[23:00] Jesse McInally: The Elton John ones are not bad though.

[23:02] Andrew DeWolf: They're not bad.

[23:04] Jesse McInally: But like things like He Lives in You and Endless Night and Shadowland and all that stuff really just makes Can You Feel the Love Tonight be like, oh pop song gross.

[23:14] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, but come on. You gotta sell this thing. Everyone's there for Can You Feel the Love Tonight.

[23:19] Jesse McInally: I getcha. I feel like I've been talking your ear off. What do you have to say, Andrew?

[23:23] Andrew DeWolf: What do I have to say? I don't know. I just I thought it was fine. Honestly, my biggest problem, if you can even call it one with the whole thing, is that I felt like I didn't gain anything from this. I feel I feel like I just watched the movie again. And I guess that is really good, because that's what they were going for, but I've also seen this movie so many times. I kind of wish they did more things different.

[23:51] Jesse McInally: Um, I think that's a lot to do with the fact that you watched a bootleg and just the way we have to do this show at the moment.

[23:57] Andrew DeWolf: Oh yeah. I'm sure live it would be phenomenal. Uh because once you have like the animals like coming down and shoving things in your faces, going down the aisles and interacting with you during Circle of Life, I know Brent says that just watching that Tony's performance makes him cry.

[24:13] Jesse McInally: Yeah, I think I think seeing it live obviously would be way better. But having watched a bootleg of it just on a screen, it's like, you know, I appreciate the different visuals, but it's not animated, it's not animation, you know, and I didn't feel like I gained that much else. Though the stampede thing was so creative how they did that, that was incredible. And like the dancing way that they brought it. This is like the one time where dancing is super effective in every time they implement it.

[24:43] Andrew DeWolf: I was wondering how they were gonna do the stampede, and I was mostly just expecting like a crappy projection, like Prince of Egypt style.

[24:51] Jesse McInally: Not at all, though. Holy crap, they do it so well. Like the spinning like background, like I don't know, and then they come up out of the and there's people with the costumes in front of oh man, it's so good.

[25:04] Andrew DeWolf: That's been that's phenomenal. And there's a lot of moments like that. Um the fact that they just don't go literal with it, they go theatrical. And this is maybe you'll disagree with me. This is the closest thing to a live animated movie there could ever be.

[25:22] Andrew DeWolf: Well, yeah, because I mean you can't animate live. I'm just saying, this is the closest way to like the stylization of animation brought to a stage.

[25:31] Brianna Jones: Yeah.

[25:32] Andrew DeWolf: Um I don't know if it could ever really be done better just because I don't really know who else is gonna ever have the budget to do this. Like it's obvious how much money is dumped into this show.

[25:43] Brianna Jones: Uh like most Broadway shows, well, not most Broadway shows, but a lot of Broadway shows that we watch are like, you know, they've got five cubes on the stage, and then like five people in costumes, or they got like a couple chairs, and it's like, okay. This is like everyone is in these elaborate outfits.

[26:00] Andrew DeWolf: There's like 40 people in different outfits in every single scene. There's a whole backdrop for every scene that's like completely moving or animated in some way. It's like, how much money did they spend to make this thing?

[26:15] Brianna Jones: Fun fact, it's not a different background.

[26:15] Andrew DeWolf: They just change the lighting and add a different puppet element every time.

[26:20] Brianna Jones: Well, there you go. But it's incredible though. Uh, but it just it seems like they have put so much budget into this, which you know I mean it's props to Disney for having so much money, but well, they weren't quite the phenomenon they are now. But let's talk about their marketing and what they did.

[26:38] Andrew DeWolf: So have I ever told you the history of Times Square and Disney and how um the reason why Times Square is what it is, which is like this marketing corner where everyone goes, is because of Disney.

[26:51] Brianna Jones: I don't doubt it. I mean, Disney has created a lot of stuff uh marketing wise.

[26:56] Andrew DeWolf: So what had happened was um so back in the olden days, let's say the late 80s, early 90s, downtown like New York, like Times Square, was basically where you buy your porn, and there also happened to be Broadway theaters there, like right next door to every Broadway theater.

[27:13] Brianna Jones: There was a porn shop, and there was like you were gonna get mugged if you stayed there way too late. If you were there past midnight to get dinner, you're gonna get mugged no matter what.

[27:21] Andrew DeWolf: Just remember what Disney took from you.

[27:23] Brianna Jones: Yeah.

[27:24] Andrew DeWolf: Um so Michael Eisner comes down and he's like, you know, we want to start putting our Disney movies on stage, Mayor of New York. Um, but I don't think any parents would want to take their kids here.

[27:37] Brianna Jones: Um I wouldn't, I'll tell you that.

[27:39] Andrew DeWolf: And they were like, All right, what do you say we do? And Disney's like, um, we're gonna buy three Broadway theaters.

[27:46] Brianna Jones: Um, the new Amsterdam, I think was the first one they bought, which is where this premiered.

[27:51] Andrew DeWolf: They it was this shitty run-down, disgusting theater that they just bought and then over a course of a few years renovated and made pretty. That's where Hercules had its premiere because they were prepping for the next Broadway show and they had it ready, and Lion King wasn't quite ready to fill it.

[28:07] Brianna Jones: So Hercules premiered there.

[28:09] Andrew DeWolf: Um Beauty and the Beast, I believe, also premiered was the first Broadway show, but didn't premiere there.

[28:15] Brianna Jones: Um so Lion King filled that spot and is still there to this day.

[28:20] Andrew DeWolf: And from that, like they've cleaned up Times Square, sold it off to corporations, and that's why it looks the way it does today, which is like a mass of screens, an ugly mess.

[28:30] Brianna Jones: All because of this show.

[28:32] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, Times Square is not really a nice place to be, if in my opinion, but it's a different kind of trashy now.

[28:38] Brianna Jones: It's not a you'll get mug trashy. It's more of a oh god, the Elmo guy's coming up to me, and I have to pay him money now.

[28:44] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, or there's like 800 billion people in one block, and I'm trying to drive.

[28:51] Brianna Jones: Yeah, driving in Times Square is a fucking shit show. Don't do it.

[28:54] Andrew DeWolf: Uh, uh worst thing I've ever done. Uh literally, I'm surprised I didn't like pop a blood vessel or something trying to do it.

[29:02] Brianna Jones: Uh yeah, it's mess. But you know what? I think we've heard enough of what we had to say about it. It's time to compare our opinions to those of the New York theater critics when this originally came out.

[29:11] Andrew DeWolf: It's time for previews.

[29:14] Brianna Jones: It's Tomful!

[29:18] Andrew DeWolf: It's Tom Full Previews.

[29:21] Brianna Jones: It's time for more Ben Brantley.

[29:25] Andrew DeWolf: Oh no.

[29:28] Brianna Jones: I'm sure he likes it.

[29:30] Andrew DeWolf: Ben Shapiro Brantley.

[29:33] Brianna Jones: Okay. Alright, so New York Times, Ben Brantley said of the 1997 production.

[29:41] Andrew DeWolf: Suddenly you're four years old again, and you've been taken to the circus for the first time. You can only marvel at the exotic procession of animals before you.

[29:50] Brianna Jones: The giraffes and the elephants and the hippopotamuses, and all those birds and balletic flight.

[29:56] Andrew DeWolf: Moreover, these are not the weary-looking beasts in plumes and spangles that usually plod their way through the urban circuses, but what might be described as their platonic equivalents.

[30:08] Brianna Jones: Creatures of air and light and even a touch of divinity.

[30:12] Andrew DeWolf: Such is the transporting magic wrought by the opening ten minutes of the Lion King, the director Julie Taymor's's staged version of the Midas Touch cartoon movie that has generated millions for Walt Disney's company.

[30:27] Brianna Jones: And the ways in which Miss Taymor translates the film's opening musical number, Circle of Life, where an animal kingdom of African Plains gathered to pay homage to its Leonine ruler and his newly born heir is filled with astonishment and promise.

[30:43] Andrew DeWolf: Still, the Lion King remains an important work in a way that Beauty and the Beast simply is not.

[30:49] Brianna Jones: Miss Taymor has introduced a whole new vocabulary of images to the Broadway blockbuster, and you're likely you're unlikely to forget such sights as the face of Simba's dead father forming itself into an astral mask among the stars.

[31:04] Andrew DeWolf: There will inevitably be longueurs for both adults and children who attend this show.

[31:10] Brianna Jones: But it offers a refreshing and more sophisticated alternative to the standard uh panoply of special effects that dominate most tourist-oriented shows today.

[31:22] Andrew DeWolf: Seen purely as a visual tapestry, there is simply nothing else like it.

[31:28] Brianna Jones: Ben Brantley hit it right on the head for once.

[31:31] Andrew DeWolf: Uh, he's he's had accurate reviews before. It seems like if he likes something, he's willing to be accurate.

[31:39] Brianna Jones: But if he if he even has a mild distaste, he's not willing to be good faith with it.

[31:45] Andrew DeWolf: I think Disney paid him for it.

[31:48] Brianna Jones: No, because Aida came out like two a year or two later, and he was not kind to that.

[31:54] Andrew DeWolf: Well, I have to agree with him here though.

[31:56] Brianna Jones: I mean, yeah.

[31:58] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, especially compared to Beauty and the Beast, which was all you had to compare it to at the time. This is a much more artistically intriguing production.

[32:06] Brianna Jones: Has it lost some of the art by the fact that it's been being put on for so long simply to get more and more billions for the Disney company?

[32:15] Andrew DeWolf: That is a question that I have thought about myself.

[32:19] Brianna Jones: So I've seen this show twice live.

[32:21] Andrew DeWolf: Um once when I was very young, and it was like fucking astonishing to me. Like, oh my god, you can do this. This is like your vaguely theatrical way of doing like these concrete images.

[32:32] Brianna Jones: Like it blew my mind as a kid.

[32:34] Andrew DeWolf: I saw it more recently within the last like three years, and I was like, this is fine. It did not touch me, it did not blow me to the back of the theater. I'm like, this is alright.

[32:44] Brianna Jones: Well, I mean, it's it's the movie done really well.

[32:47] Andrew DeWolf: But I remember like the dancing and like the puppetry stuff like throwing me to the back of the wall when I was a kid, and then it was like, oh, it's puppets.

[32:55] Brianna Jones: Yeah.

[32:55] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, I think it's really well done. I'm sure if I saw this live, I'd be very, very impressed.

[33:00] Brianna Jones: And I don't think there's any way you could possibly do this better.

[33:03] Andrew DeWolf: No.

[33:04] Brianna Jones: But at the same time, it's like, when are you gonna stop putting this on? You know?

[33:07] Andrew DeWolf: Like, how long has it been in that one theater? It's been like 20 years now, right?

[33:10] Brianna Jones: Yeah, over 20 years.

[33:12] Andrew DeWolf: Like most shows don't even go for a full year.

[33:16] Brianna Jones: Disney has the money.

[33:17] Andrew DeWolf: I know they have the money and they're making money, but it's like it almost feels like it loses some of the art.

[33:22] Brianna Jones: You know, it's like, yeah, it's been 20 years, you're still doing the same thing.

[33:26] Andrew DeWolf: But remember what Grace said in our Spring Awakening episode?

[33:30] Brianna Jones: Newsies was a surprisingly very popular, very well, well received selling out show that they closed to put Aladdin in there because they didn't want more than three shows of theirs on Broadway at the same time.

[33:43] Andrew DeWolf: They won't close Lion King though.

[33:45] Brianna Jones: Yes.

[33:46] Andrew DeWolf: Even though it's been on for 20 years.

[33:49] Brianna Jones: I think they should force some scarcity on it, close it down, make people miss it a bit.

[33:53] Andrew DeWolf: It's actually surprising because isn't Disney the company that literally created like the Disney vault where they would artificially create scarcity in their own films by not selling them for certain periods of time?

[34:05] Brianna Jones: Like, and yet you're gonna allow this show to just be there always for 20 years straight.

[34:11] Andrew DeWolf: 8.1 billion dollars.

[34:14] Brianna Jones: I think deep down though, they know that any show that they look to replace this with will never be as good.

[34:21] Andrew DeWolf: That's kind of the thing.

[34:22] Brianna Jones: There's nothing hunchback, maybe if they had put the money into it.

[34:26] Andrew DeWolf: They're not willing to do that anymore, though.

[34:27] Brianna Jones: The money's already been put into this.

[34:30] Andrew DeWolf: Let's talk about the big ol' elephant in the room.

[34:34] Brianna Jones: Um, briefly, but I don't really want to focus on this, but it's on it's worth talking about. In 2019, they remade the Lion King film as a live action-ish animated film.

[34:45] Andrew DeWolf: Oh god.

[34:47] Brianna Jones: You actually said that quote from uh uh what was her name? Uh Julie Taymor, where she said like you have to be able to see the uh the actors, you have to be able to see.

[34:56] Andrew DeWolf: And I was just thinking about like if only they had thought of that when they remade the Lion King.

[35:01] Brianna Jones: I was gonna bring this up specifically.

[35:06] Andrew DeWolf: Like they missed the mark every every step of the way. Imagine how much more money they would have made if they had just released a filmed version of their Broadway show on in to movie theaters.

[35:14] Brianna Jones: Imagine how big even just under Disney Plus like they did with Hamilton.

[35:20] Andrew DeWolf: But um or if they did a animated, more stylized version of this show with the new songs and everything.

[35:30] Brianna Jones: Instead of like cutting the song, what is with Disney and cutting songs now?

[35:34] Andrew DeWolf: My god.

[35:35] Brianna Jones: Well, they cut songs so they can add new songs in.

[35:37] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, like uh now they have like that spirit song is a Lion King song now, which I'm surprised they're not trying to shoehorn that into this show.

[35:45] Brianna Jones: There's so much shit in there.

[35:47] Andrew DeWolf: Um but one again, that movie uh made 1.657 billion dollars.

[35:54] Brianna Jones: Like that's another billion under their mark.

[35:56] Andrew DeWolf: They used a grand total of zero songs from this musical.

[36:01] Brianna Jones: Well, outside of the ones that were from the original movie, correct?

[36:04] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, and even that they didn't even really use all of them.

[36:07] Brianna Jones: Because being prepared butchered.

[36:09] Andrew DeWolf: And they didn't perform them well when they did do them.

[36:12] Brianna Jones: Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope.

[36:14] Andrew DeWolf: Um, but he lives in you.

[36:15] Brianna Jones: It like all these songs are like 10 out of 10 bangers, and they don't even hint at them in this movie.

[36:21] Andrew DeWolf: What is the point of making this movie?

[36:23] Brianna Jones: Uh, uh somehow it is like two hours long, and they didn't add anything to it.

[36:29] Andrew DeWolf: How did they do this, Andrew?

[36:31] Brianna Jones: I honestly I haven't seen it, and I refuse to watch it unless I'm gonna be able to do that.

[36:35] Andrew DeWolf: It is bad.

[36:36] Brianna Jones: I don't know how they did it so bad.

[36:38] Andrew DeWolf: I'll I'll be real with you. Every single one of these Disney live action things just looks like absolute shit, and I know that's not an original take by any means, but there's a reason everyone has that take.

[36:49] Brianna Jones: It's because they look like fucking shit.

[36:50] Andrew DeWolf: Like, I'm sorry. They just they do.

[36:52] Brianna Jones: Like.

[36:53] Andrew DeWolf: Uh I I don't understand why they're making them.

[36:56] Brianna Jones: Make something fucking new.

[36:58] Andrew DeWolf: If you're gonna do this, take something from your Broadway show that made billions, and like give us a fucking good time here instead of fucking what did they give us?

[37:08] Brianna Jones: Seth Rogan singing off key?

[37:09] Andrew DeWolf: Like, my fucking god.

[37:13] Brianna Jones: I mean, I know why they don't bring it in from the stage version, because they'd have to pay royalties to those people, and then they wouldn't even be able to write new songs that could be nominated for Oscars and to make Beyonce sing those.

[37:24] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, boo hoo, boo hoo.

[37:26] Brianna Jones: They have to pay their fucking people that make their art for them.

[37:29] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, god for fucking bid.

[37:31] Brianna Jones: You know what? Julie Taymor's is a filmmaker.

[37:34] Andrew DeWolf: She could have been brought onto this and make a fucking wack-a-doo ass Lion King movie.

[37:39] Brianna Jones: If if you guys paid enough money.

[37:41] Andrew DeWolf: I would have loved it.

[37:42] Brianna Jones: It would have been I even if it was terrible, it probably would have been better than what they actually put out.

[37:47] Andrew DeWolf: I would have preferred a big swing and a miss than no like a tap.

[37:51] Brianna Jones: You know?

[37:51] Andrew DeWolf: They went for a button, they missed the damn thing.

[37:54] Brianna Jones: Like, my god.

[37:58] Andrew DeWolf: On that note, um, let's go into a mid-show announcement, guys.

[38:08] Andrew DeWolf: Hey guys, today's show is brought to you by the extremely kind donations by our donors over at Patreon.

[38:13] Jesse McInally: Andrew, what's Patreon?

[38:14] Andrew DeWolf: Patreon is where you can go if you'd like to give us a little bit of money and get some perks. We got, you know, commentaries, we got trailer reactions. There's a lot of trailers coming out, a lot of good stuff. Uh I don't know what else. What else do we have? Like, there's just a bunch of shit. You get our video, you can see our faces. Breeze dancing right now. It's incredible. Like, oh my god. It's actually oh my god, she's actually dancing. She's dabbing. She's dabbing. Oh no, it's embarrassing. You want to see this.

[38:42] Andrew DeWolf: Uh also, like you you get first word on a bunch of stuff. Um, right now, you will get the full Mamma Mia live stream that just happened uh last week. You will see you. Like we're recording it before we've even had that experience. We could be throwing up on camera for all we know. We're probably throwing up on camera. Honestly, it is so hot where I am that I'm likely dead right now. I am. Breed and I will be outdoors doing it, and we will be drinking like actual mixed drinks, not just beer. So if I throw up on camera, just take my body and put it in the ground. Like that's it for me. Rest in peace, Brianna.

[39:20] Andrew DeWolf: It'll be two. Two Mama Mia maps four hours. So Bree might be dead right now. Put me in the dumpster. When I die, just throw me in the trash.

[39:34] Andrew DeWolf: All right. Who are our patrons, Jess?

[39:37] Jesse McInally: Our current patrons are Melissa Goldman, Terry Needleman, John Donna, Layton Ackles, Danielle Renics, Jess the Stampede, Iwan Castle, Taskir, Fire September, Monica Thoreau, Mina Miniri, Brent Black, Haley Murray, B Way Flicks, Thaniel Stacy Coomb, Joseph Evans Green, Carrie Ahern, Christine Malmadell, Mary Lou Choquette, John Vanes, Heck You, I go by Elijah Now, Russ Walker, Musical Hell, Emily Gracie, Andrew Van Barsen, uh Tablam, Kyle Summers, Janay C, Christina Francis, Scoot, and the Technicolor Dreamcoat, Liz Lim, Corey Wilmarth, Alison Stellar.

[40:10] Jesse McInally: Nothing is certain except Beth and Taxis, John Van Ales, Desbian, Ren Cullen, Wait in the Wings, Spectacle Machine, Jacob Stroop, Rafael Martinez, Salaz, Robert Benjamin, Richard T, Jessica T, Genevieve Hartnett, Cass, Mitchell Young.

[40:23] Jesse McInally: Thank you for the Patreon request, Mitchell Young, um, Chai Teacup, Hayden Wilder, Katie McDonough, Genki Geiss, Dakis, Timothy Keys, Jeffrey Machado, Jacuse, Ten Van Assen, Jesse Taylor, R. Elliot, Chris Marcott, Alexandria Sing, and Katie Cherberg.

[40:40] Andrew DeWolf: They give us a little extra financial support that helps us keep the lights on here, musicals with cheese, and pay for my throat surgery after reading that. Um, if you would like to join them in supporting us, you get tons of fun perks such as patron only commentary, so our episodes a day earlier or and a bunch of other shit. Um, come join us over at Patreon.

[40:56] Andrew DeWolf: All right, we ready to talk about some singing songs, song, song, song, songs?

[40:59] Jesse McInally: Yeah, we have that circle of life opening.

[42:01] Andrew DeWolf: It's the circle of life Hey, hey, Andrew, hey, Andrew.

[42:05] Jesse McInally: Oh, I'll made you look.

[42:06] Andrew DeWolf: Alright, Rainbow Cardigan.

[42:08] Jesse McInally: Yeah.

[42:10] Andrew DeWolf: The Circle of Life is a is a banger. Everyone knows that. I don't they they execute it perfectly, and yeah, I don't know what else to say. Faultlessly.

[42:18] Jesse McInally: Um, I do want to talk a bit about like the theatrical tactics, like the sun rising. Every visual element you have from that movie is somehow represented here on stage. How the fuck did they do that? Perfectly. Like it is astonishing how effortlessly they made that look. Like they got the sun, you've got the voice, the voice that blows you to the fucking back of the wall. In if you're in the room with them, and that first comes up, it's like so loud, so jarring, so incredible. Like, and then you just have these people going down the aisles they that are touching you, like laughing with you. It's it's it's an experience. It is like the as sad as it is, you never quite get to that high ever again.

[42:59] Andrew DeWolf: I kind of feel like that's the case in the movie, too, though.

[43:02] Jesse McInally: Yeah.

[43:03] Andrew DeWolf: But like, I mean, what's the last song in the movie? Can you feel the love tonight versus circle of life? I mean, the last song in that movie is King of Pride Rock, where he's like, Where he's like going up in the rain because of the drought.

[43:19] Jesse McInally: That is the first like last moment. It's like, oh, oh, can't breathe.

[43:23] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. Circle of life is fantastic, and I mean, everyone knows that. And what's really astonishing is that it's executed just as well on stage, if not better, as it is in the movie.

[43:35] Jesse McInally: Yeah, and that is possibly one of the best animated sequences of all time. Like that is not just us being like, it's better, it's just as good.

[43:43] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, no, like circle of life in the movie is phenomenal, and you are not disappointed when you see it on in in the stage show, which is impressive.

[43:51] Jesse McInally: I do want to talk about a slightly disappointing song. Um, just because it feels like uh, you know, like a throwaway song in the movie and in this show. Um, and that's I just can't wait to be king, where they're like, it's whatever. You know what the song is. There's like colors and shit. Like, there is no fanfare. They just throw the kids on these little turkey things, and they're like, Alright, that's a song.

[44:15] Andrew DeWolf: I'm gonna be a mighty king, so when numbies beware. I've never seen a king of beasts with quite so little hair. I'm gonna be the main event. I can go king once before. I'm rusting up one looking down. I'm working on my raw.

[44:37] Jesse McInally: Oh I just can't wait to be king.

[44:43] Andrew DeWolf: I I kinda hate to say it too, but I don't think the kids sang it that well in the one I watched.

[44:48] Jesse McInally: Yeah.

[44:48] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, they're kids. I don't want to be mean, but like they're kids.

[44:56] Jesse McInally: They're kids, but like I'm I'm paying to watch this.

[44:59] Andrew DeWolf: You didn't though. You stole it.

[45:04] Jesse McInally: The guy that filmed it did.

[45:06] Andrew DeWolf: Arrrr. Ar these kids, they be performing bad.

[45:15] Jesse McInally: My bootlegs deserve better than this.

[45:20] Andrew DeWolf: Bootlegger Bill wants better performances.

[45:24] Jesse McInally: Okay, someone's gotta do art uh of Andrew's bootlegger Bill with his like bag full of fucking like bootleg broadway shows.

[45:33] Andrew DeWolf: Yo-ho, yo ho Yoho.

[47:00] Jesse McInally: I don't know. I I don't know. I I've got nothing else.

[47:00] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, yeah.

[47:00] Jesse McInally: I think in the movie it's better because at least there's like the bright colors. It's like a music video almost.

[47:00] Andrew DeWolf: But yeah, it's so it really is it really just doesn't hold up as well on stage because it's just kind of a weak song.

[47:00] Jesse McInally: I mean Elton John's songs, like this is just like he's just like muttering. Have you ever heard his like demo of it where it's just like him at a piano and he refuses to sing like the shitty lyrics that Tim Rice wrote, so he wrote his own like contemporary rock version. He's like, Gonna be a great man, I will be a good man.

[47:00] Andrew DeWolf: Of course. Bree, play a clip of that. I'll send you a link.

[47:00] Jesse McInally: I also uh it kind of gets me that it's like the same little uh like thing from the Little Mermaid, like the doo da da da da do-do-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da.

[47:00] Andrew DeWolf: The C we just wants to be king.

[47:00] Jesse McInally: I don't know. I I don't I I think it's fine, but the it's yeah, it's not as good as some of the other stuff in here.

[47:08] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, let's talk about um be prepared. Um, only because it's this is like one of the most iconic scenes in the movie, and this is another one where it's like they they sum it up very well. It's not a badly done scene, but it's like could have done more goose stepping hyenas.

[47:24] Jesse McInally: Prepare for the chance of a lifetime. Be prepared for sensational news. A shining new era is kidtowing nearer. Just listen to teacher. I know it sounds sordid, but you'll be rewarded. When at last I ungiven I do and injustice delicate squad. Be prepared.

[47:53] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, we'll be prepared.

[47:55] Jesse McInally: We'll be prepared.

[47:57] Andrew DeWolf: For the death of the king.

[47:59] Jesse McInally: Is he sick?

[48:00] Andrew DeWolf: No!

[48:01] Jesse McInally: We're gonna kill him!

[48:02] Andrew DeWolf: And Simba too.

[48:06] Jesse McInally: No king!

[48:07] Andrew DeWolf: No king!

[48:09] Jesse McInally: I do think it's cool that they have him do like a reprise though.

[48:13] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, I agree. 100%.

[48:14] Jesse McInally: Uh later.

[48:15] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[48:16] Jesse McInally: But you know, uh it's like it is a hard act to follow from the movie, though.

[48:20] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[48:20] Jesse McInally: Um the the movie version of this where like the mountain is like growing and these like they're all on it, and there's like the the goose-stepping hyenas, like with shadow like I I don't know. It's it's it's hard to top that.

[48:30] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, there are moments in the show that are like feats to the visual eye that aren't in the movie.

[48:39] Jesse McInally: Like, that's kind of the thing. And then some moments that aren't in the movie that were a visual treat just aren't, but they work.

[48:45] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[48:45] Jesse McInally: It's almost like they could have made like a new version of the movie that combines the best elements of this and the movie, and they could have made that and like remade the movie basically and done that.

[48:56] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, you know, like, oh my god, wouldn't that have been great?

[48:59] Jesse McInally: That would have been really cool. Like, someone should tell Disney that they should remake the Lion King in a game.

[49:03] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, good thing they've never done that.

[49:05] Jesse McInally: It's a good thing they haven't done that yet, you know.

[49:07] Andrew DeWolf: Um, yeah.

[49:08] Jesse McInally: The Stampede is an incredible sequence as well.

[49:11] Andrew DeWolf: Like, we brought that up. The Stampede is in like amazing. I don't even know. I was not expecting that, but holy crap. It's really good.

[49:21] Jesse McInally: Um, let's talk. We're skipping all the way to Act Two a bit, but Endless Night is Simba's I Want Song.

[49:28] Andrew DeWolf: And we set up in our first half of the show that there's two musicals happening here. Act one is its own musical, and his I Want Song for the Act One is I Can't Just Wait To Be K- I Just Can't Wait to Be King.

[49:32] Jesse McInally: And his I Want Song for Act Two Um is Endless Night, which is about like I just want to like not have nightmares about my father anymore, and I just want to like I want life to be normal, but I have all this fucking trauma I haven't dealt with.

[49:53] Andrew DeWolf: And yeah, the this plot is about him dealing with that fucking trauma.

[49:57] Jesse McInally: And that is a new song for this musical, and it follows another scene that was written especially for this musical that I think is necessary and makes Simba more of a character in the second half, which is where Timon and Poomba are like in a dangerous situation where they almost die, and Simba gets fucking freaked out from his PTSD about his dad dying, and he can't help them.

[50:21] Andrew DeWolf: When will the dawn break?

[50:27] Jesse McInally: Oh less night.

[50:33] Andrew DeWolf: Sleepless my dream of the day.

[51:29] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, uh, honestly, it's a good it's like an action sequence too. Like they have like uh uh Timon falls down a waterfall. Uh right?

[51:37] Jesse McInally: Yeah, am I thinking the right thing?

[51:39] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, yep. Uh I I think it's an in uh nice addition, and I think this is a necessary song because if you think of the movie, really there's only one song that would have been here, and that's "Can You Feel the Love Tonight?" And imagine if that was the only new song in act two. Uh it's like oof. So yeah, I'm glad they added this in.

[52:00] Jesse McInally: Yeah, it's super important, and I'm surprised they didn't add it in for the remake that doesn't exist, because this is a very effective way to give Simba some needs in the second half.

[52:10] Andrew DeWolf: They definitely could add it to the remake that they're going to make since they didn't make one.

[52:14] Jesse McInally: You know, you're right, you're right, you're right. Um as well, Nala's song "Shadowland," I think is also incredible, like a great song, using some the best thematic piece that Hans Zimmer wrote in the movie, which is Da da da da da da da and just added lyrics to it and like fucking perfect. Like all about the reason why she's leaving because she got sexually assaulted by the king.

[52:38] ♪ Musical number: "Shadowland" ♪

[53:49] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. Wouldn't it be really cool if like and hear me out on this one?

[53:53] Jesse McInally: I'm here now.

[53:54] Andrew DeWolf: They got they got a singer to play Nala in, you know, the remake that they would they may hypothetically make.

[54:00] Jesse McInally: Yeah.

[54:00] Andrew DeWolf: And then they gave her this song. It would have been great. Like imagine like someone like Beyoncé stepping in and like seeing the song. And like, and like Nala would have a song in the in the movie.

[54:11] Jesse McInally: Yeah.

[54:12] Andrew DeWolf: It would be really dumb if you remade it, and then you just have this singer sing an unrelated song and play it as like a just a song over so a montage. And it's not even it's not even like the character singing it. That would be ridiculous.

[54:25] Jesse McInally: Yeah, no, no, no. That would be really dumb. Why would you do that, in fact? I mean, I don't even know why we're talking about this, because obviously no one would ever do something like that. That would be terrible.

[54:36] Andrew DeWolf: Alright, one more song we gotta talk about. And that is "He Lives in You," which is the best song. The 11 o'clock number, the scene where Mufasa comes down and is like, hey, you fucked up, kid. And like all these like ghostly figures come out. It starts with Rafiki just being like explaining, like, no, you idiot. You you weren't listening in the first act when they said these live in you. Literally, they that you are representing them, you fucking idiot.

[55:06] Jesse McInally: And you know what would be dumb? Um this song builds so perfectly, you get how he feels at the end. Um it's much better than the way it's done in the movie, where it's just like, ah, forget your past and whatever. And which is not a great lesson if you think about it.

[56:05] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, well, I mean, the ethics of Lion King have never been uh never been phenomenal. Um, but you know what would be really dumb? Um, you should if they did make a remake of The Lion King, which of course they haven't. Um They have not done that. Um, they really should include this scene in there in full, um, because it really is this great emotional catharsis. It's a great like dance piece and so much chance for visuals. It would be really fucking stupid if you had it in the end credits in a different language. Um, that would be like the worst decision you could probably make for like an adaptation of the Lion King to film, which of course doesn't exist yet.

[56:44] Jesse McInally: I mean, I could think of worse things they could do. I mean, like, what if they made them all look like realistic cats?

[56:52] Andrew DeWolf: That's a horrible idea.

[56:54] Jesse McInally: Oh my god, imagine if they did that.

[56:57] Andrew DeWolf: Oh man, that would be like terrible. And then, like, they hire Seth Rogan.

[57:02] Jesse McInally: Oh my god.

[57:03] Andrew DeWolf: Or the guy that yells at people in the street as like wouldn't that be such a mess?

[57:11] Jesse McInally: What a disaster. You know what would be like even the worst choice? Um, because we set up Mufasa's this great virile king who struck down the like in his prime. Like, young young man, really feel like his intensity, like he was a great dad and a young fellow.

[57:29] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, yeah.

[57:30] Jesse McInally: It'd be really bad if you just brought James Earl Jones back, who sounds like he's on his deathbed. Like that would be the worst choice you could possibly make for a remake.

[57:40] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, that would be a terrible choice. I mean, if you did that, you're just sitting the entire time thinking like he's got a week left at best. You might as well just push him off the cliff.

[57:49] Jesse McInally: I mean, honestly, I'm I'm surprised he didn't just fall on his own.

[58:02] Andrew DeWolf: He comes, Mufasa comes out in a cane with a limp. And then Scar is like, long live the king, and he just knocks him down and he dies.

[58:14] Jesse McInally: No, no, no. Scar goes to try to push him down and then realizes he already fell as he's like, Oh, I had this whole thing prepared, and uh shit. I was gonna say, long live the king and push him off. It was gonna be so dramatic. Uh you have to believe me on this. But you know uh scar, scar is a super important part. We talked about how much be prepared was important to this. Um imagine if they had just cut it out like to like nothing. Imagine if they had just cut that scene to like barely.

[58:46] Andrew DeWolf: I imagine they they wouldn't be able to cut it out because I mean if they tried to cut it out, there would probably be such a fan backlash that they'd have to add it back in in some capacity.

[58:54] Jesse McInally: Yeah, like the last minute, you know, and just kind of like make the actor like basically rap it because he's not a singer, he didn't sign up to sing.

[59:07] Andrew DeWolf: So, what was your overall thoughts on the Lion King and your cheese rating?

[59:10] Jesse McInally: Um, yeah, the movie's good, the stage show's really good. I like the stuff they added and the stuff that was already there, they you know, did really well. Uh I I don't know. This show has been on for like 20 fucking years and has made billions of dollars. What the fuck else am I gonna say about it? I mean, come on, it's it's fine, it's good. Uh as a uh cheese rating? Like. Jeez. Um, lions don't eat cheese.

[59:41] Andrew DeWolf: Do we check that? Have we read the read the book?

[59:44] Jesse McInally: Have I read the book? Oh boy. Um, what's a cheese that I liked as a kid that I still like now? That's that's kind of a good one. Uh I'm gonna I'm gonna go with mozzarella, because that's like a a tried and true classic cheese.

[1:00:00] Andrew DeWolf: Hell yeah. Alright, Bree, what'd you think of our discussion?

[1:00:04] Brianna Jones: You guys lost me on that last little part. Um what? I have no idea what you were talking about.

[1:00:11] Jesse McInally: Oh. Well, I mean, we were hypothetically talking about if they had remade the Lion King, which they didn't, of course.

[1:00:17] Brianna Jones: So very chaotic. You lost me. Um they never remade the Lion King. What are you talking about?

[1:00:23] Jesse McInally: Nope, never. Um I'm gonna give this Red Lion, Mustard and Ale, cheddar cheese. Um, that's the cheese I'm gonna give it. Um, but I do want to see the live performance of it if I ever get the opportunity, thanks to this discussion.

[1:00:41] Andrew DeWolf: It's a good show. 10 out of 10. That's great cheese.

[1:00:44] Jesse McInally: Oh really, you knocked it out, Brie. Uh, much better than Andrew's.

[1:00:49] Andrew DeWolf: What? I said you don't have to lie to me. That's fine.

[1:00:52] Jesse McInally: I don't like that attitude. Okay, get to your cheese rating. I want to make a quesadilla.

[1:00:59] Andrew DeWolf: Um yeah, Lion King's good. It's a great show. Best version of the Lion King, because the Lion King isn't that great to begin with. Um my cheese rating is this thing called the Mufasa Burger, the Mufasa cheeseburger. And my god, heart attack on a bun, right?

[1:01:17] Jesse McInally: Oh boy.

[1:01:18] Andrew DeWolf: Are you trying to say that the Lion King will kill you?

[1:01:21] Jesse McInally: Yep. Look at all that cheese. Look at that. We we got so much fucking cheese. Four slices of Swiss cheese. My god. Alright, that's my cheese rating.

[1:01:32] Brianna Jones: That's a yikes for me, dog.

[1:01:34] Andrew DeWolf: I thought it was a good cheese rating. Alright, well, I'm about to sweat me. So I think we we should wrap this up. You know who's definitely not gonna sweat to death, Andrew?

[1:01:43] Jesse McInally: Uh hopefully me, because I'm gonna turn this fan on in about two minutes. Thank you guys for listening. We're on IG and Spotify Stitcher at Musicals with Cheese. We're on Twitter at Cheesy Musicals. We're on Patreon at Musicals with Cheese, Instagram, Musicals with Cheese, YouTube page Musicals with Cheese. Check out our new wonderful YouTube videos made by Liz Eston. Thank you for doing that. Email us at musical leaderless at gmail.com. Our title card is created by the amazing Jolie Casco. Go follow her on Instagram at Jolene Casco. Keeper of the Cheese is Juliet Antonio. Thank you, Julia, for keeping up with that because God knows I wasn't going. The show is produced by Brianna Jones. She's alright. Thank you to the Broadway Podcast Network for having us on the platform and knocking us off yet. Um guys. Is there anything else you want? Free space.

[1:02:20] Brianna Jones: I'm gonna die. Look at me. Now look at you. Now look at me. I better kidding. I'm better than alright.

[1:02:29] Jesse McInally: No, I'm just kidding. You are better than all right. I the thing is, oh, the one week I don't fucking kiss your ass, you get real, real offended.

[1:02:38] Brianna Jones: No, no, I'm not offended at all. Makes me excited for Mamma Mia.

[1:02:43] Jesse McInally: Hell yeah. It's gonna be a good yeah. Go go on Patreon. You can see our full four-hour two movie events where we get fucking toasted so hard. Alright, you guys, we love you so much. We'll see you next time on Musicals with Cheese.

[1:03:05] ♪ Musical number: "He Lives in You" ♪