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[0:05] Jess McEnally: Hello, I'm Jesse McEnally.

[0:07] Andrew DeWolf: And I'm Andrew DeWolf.

[0:08] Brianna Jones: And I'm Brianna Jones.

[0:09] Jess McEnally: And welcome to Musicals with Cheese, a podcast where I try to get Andrew and Bree to like musical theater.

[0:13] Jess McEnally: And you guys, we have a super duper special guest.

[0:17] Andrew DeWolf: Ooh, super duper special guest.

[0:19] Jess McEnally: I feel like it gets more and more special every time.

[0:21] Andrew DeWolf: It gets more and more special because I play in them earlier and earlier, so technically they were.

[0:26] Jess McEnally: But please welcome the host of the Stacks podcast about books and the people who read them.

[0:32] Jess McEnally: And a girl who really needs this job.

[0:35] Jess McEnally: It's Traci Thomas!

[0:37] Traci Thomas: Yay!

[0:42] Jess McEnally: How are you doing, Traci?

[0:43] Traci Thomas: I'm great. I'm so excited to be here. I uh get to talk about musicals.

[0:47] Traci Thomas: You will not have to convince me to love musicals. I'm just here. Really available.

[0:53] Jess McEnally: Well, that's good because do you have your resume?

[0:57] Traci Thomas: Um bang, right right in front of your face.

[1:00] Jess McEnally: Oh my goodness.

[1:02] Traci Thomas: Um and do you have your what is it they make the combinations memorized? Can you can you show us something?

[1:08] Traci Thomas: Okay, so true story. I was in this musical. I actually do know the original choreography to the opening number. Thank you very much.

[1:21] Jess McEnally: Oh my goodness! Y'all who aren't on Patreon, you missed out on some amazing dancing.

[1:27] Andrew DeWolf: That was crazy dancing.

[1:31] Jess McEnally: I'm sorry.

[1:35] Traci Thomas: I didn't even say it that time.

[1:37] Andrew DeWolf: That's true.

[1:38] Traci Thomas: That actually was natural.

[1:40] Jess McEnally: Of course, I'm gonna push Patreon. I also have a Patreon, so if you like books, feel free to join mine.

[1:45] Traci Thomas: I like reading books. Cross promotion, I'm into it.

[1:48] Jess McEnally: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's why we do this. Um, in case you haven't picked up, this week we are talking about A Chorus Line.

[1:55] Traci Thomas: 5678! I hope I get it! I hope I get it! I'm making people to see me! I hope I get it! I'll take it more so many times! Look at all the people!

[2:12] Jess McEnally: So A Chorus Line is a musical with a book by James Kirkwood Jr. and Nicholas Dante, and music and lyrics by Marvin Hamlisch and Edward Kleban. Um, it premiered off Broadway at the Public Theater on April 15th, 1975. Advanced word had created such a demand for tickets that the entire run sold out immediately, and they moved directly to Broadway on July 25th, 1975 at the Schubert Theater, where it ran for 6,137 performances until April 28th, 1990, thus becoming the longest-running production in Broadway history until surpassed.

[2:44] Jess McEnally: Andrew, can you guess it?

[2:46] Andrew DeWolf: Um geez. Sh Chicago?

[2:48] Jess McEnally: Cats in 1997!

[2:52] Andrew DeWolf: Dude, I don't know. Who are you asking me for?

[2:54] Jess McEnally: And then it was surpassed again um as the longest-running Broadway musical originally produced in the US until surpassed in 2011 by Chicago. It remained the seventh longest-running Broadway show ever. Um its success has spawned many successful productions worldwide. It became a lengthy run in the West End in 1976 and was revived on Broadway in 2006 and the West End in 2013.

[3:17] Jess McEnally: The plot of A Chorus Line is set on the bare stage of a Broadway theater. The musical is centered on 17 Broadway dancers auditioning for spots on a chorus line. It provides a glimpse into the personalities of the performers and the choreographer as they describe the events that have shaped their lives and their decisions to become dancers.

[3:35] Jess McEnally: Alright, Traci.

[3:36] Traci Thomas: Yes.

[3:37] Jess McEnally: You picked this show.

[3:38] Traci Thomas: Yes.

[3:39] Jess McEnally: What is your history with A Chorus Line?

[3:41] Traci Thomas: It is my favorite musical, which I know that everyone is probably like, uh, but my history is I'm a dancer. I grew up as a dancer. I love a dance musical. I think too many musicals don't have enough dancing, and I think every musical should have singing, acting, and dancing.

[3:57] Andrew DeWolf: I do agree with that.

[3:58] Traci Thomas: So people can march their little ballad shows away from me. I love A Chorus Line. I actually love the movie more than the play. I know. But the movie has sex appeal. Just the way that Bebe does body rolls is incredible.

[4:13] Jess McEnally: Thank you. Uh, we can get into it.

[4:16] Traci Thomas: Oh, we will.

[4:16] Jess McEnally: And letterbox dwell as well. Don't worry.

[4:19] Andrew DeWolf: Oh boy. Um, and so in high school, I was in the show. Do you guys want to guess who I played?

[4:26] Traci Thomas: Oh boy, you're asking me to remember names. Careful. Could get touchy.

[4:29] Andrew DeWolf: Maggie?

[4:31] Traci Thomas: No, I can't sing. Maggie's like the only singing part in the show.

[4:35] Traci Thomas: I played Val, who is tits an ass. Hello.

[4:38] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[4:39] Traci Thomas: I wasn't gonna guess that one. I said that's why I said it can get touchy. And I had to wear three fake bras because I'm very flat chested. And you know what? It was the highlight of my life. I got to draw on my cleavage like a real high school girl. It was just a real dream.

[4:53] Traci Thomas: Um, but I love the show. I saw the revival on Broadway. I love the movie. I actually love it so much that I broke my DVD, uh, but I still own it because I just love it. So yeah, I'm sure you guys hate it, and that's fine too. But I love it. I know people hate the show, so I just I'm used to people hating my favorite musicals. It's fine.

[5:13] Jess McEnally: Okay, Andrew, why don't you tell her how much you hate it?

[5:16] Andrew DeWolf: Oh boy, I don't know if I hated it that much. I uh I have a bad relationship with shows that have more than two characters. Um and this show has like 15 characters, and I can't keep track. I can't, I cannot follow the show.

[5:27] Traci Thomas: You couldn't follow the last five years, and that had two characters.

[5:32] Andrew DeWolf: But what can you not follow? You just don't remember who's who?

[5:36] Traci Thomas: Like there's nothing to follow. They're all just talking for five minutes at a time.

[5:40] Andrew DeWolf: It's that. I feel like I'm I'm supposed to try to like remember who had what story, and I can't. Like um, I don't know. I I have a lot of trouble. There's too many, too many faces on on the stage at the same time.

[5:52] Traci Thomas: Um I respect that. There are a lot of people. I just don't think it's a show that you have to remember the people because they all sort of are just functioning in the exact same way, besides Cassie.

[6:03] Traci Thomas: Who it kind of feels like Cats to me in like uh this is a everyone introduces themselves show and then the show ends.

[6:10] Andrew DeWolf: Um, better than that though.

[6:14] Traci Thomas: That's fair. Cats has very good dancing, and I've always said that.

[6:18] Andrew DeWolf: This has great dancing as well.

[6:20] Traci Thomas: Um I wish it had more. I actually feel like this could have more dancing.

[6:24] Andrew DeWolf: Yes. I think they need this needs more dancing.

[6:26] Traci Thomas: I agree. Um, okay. I like A Chorus Line, but it's not really my brand of Broadway musical, so it's not like in my top ten, but I do enjoy it. Like I own I own it on vinyl and listen to it quite often because the score is great.

[6:39] Andrew DeWolf: Um, and when I do revisit the the stage show, like if I ever yo ho pirate a bootleg or something like that.

[6:46] Traci Thomas: Um I never do that, kids.

[6:49] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, never do that. Never do that. Um But I I do enjoy it. Now, do I understand every single critique it's been thrown over the years? Yes.

[6:58] Andrew DeWolf: Um here's I I do a tweet every time I do a sh we cover a show because I just kinda want to see what general people think of it. Like what I mean is zillennials thinking, like, oh, that's problematic. And I'm like, alright, let me see that opinion. And most people think it holds up. It just needs to stay in the 70s.

[7:16] Traci Thomas: Yes. Yeah, they so when they revived it on Broadway, I saw it, and I was actually really disappointed in it. Because I feel like the revival lacked sort of like the joy and whimsy, which I love in the show. Like it was like almost too self-serious. And that's why I think that the movie holds up better, because it has all of that original flavor that the that like when you revive it now, it's like people are like, you know, they try to really milk that whole Paul monologue, you know.

[7:48] Traci Thomas: It's like, okay, we get it, Paul. But like, that's like the centerpiece now of the show, and I just don't feel like it should be. Like, I don't think the show is like supposed to be sad, you know?

[7:58] Andrew DeWolf: Well, it ends with um I think the centerpiece is what I did for love, which is a song I do not like. It's like the one song in the show that I do not enjoy. I skip it, I skip right to the one rip reprise.

[8:09] Traci Thomas: Got it. Okay. Yeah, I and that is what the 11 o'clock number is. And now I get why the Paul monologue is the centerpiece of the second half of the show. It makes sense. But I understand exactly what you mean. However, I am of a different opinion that I don't think this show works outside of its original run in any way.

[8:30] Traci Thomas: Not the movie.

[8:32] Andrew DeWolf: Not the movie.

[8:33] Traci Thomas: I don't know where you are in the world, but I'm gonna be there soon. I do not think the movie is good. I think the movie is actively bad, in fact.

[8:41] Andrew DeWolf: I want to know what do you think is worse about the movie? Because in my opinion, they kind of felt the same.

[8:48] Traci Thomas: I think they focus way too hard on the Cassie plot and try to give it a proper narrative. I don't like the fact that we actively see Zack so much. Um, I think that him as a character being such a physical presence kind of ruins the mystique of him. And the only thing about the movie I really like is Terrence Mann.

[9:05] Andrew DeWolf: Um I feel like giving the show more of an actual plot is actually almost an improvement in some ways, though.

[9:11] Traci Thomas: I think that's a detriment. I think that's a good detriment. I could follow some of the movie at least, because it's like I know that character. That one, that's the one that I know.

[9:21] Andrew DeWolf: But the orchestrations, the orchestrations were made so much worse and so much less powerful.

[9:26] Traci Thomas: I do kind of agree with that. Every song kind of felt weaker.

[9:28] Andrew DeWolf: And not I'm gonna insist. So everyone's creative. Everybody's making good points here. However, but we're not talking about how great the number instead of doing like the Hello 12, like whatever, they do the sex song, you know, or they do some of the Hello 12, but then they do the and then we did it again.

[9:44] Traci Thomas: I I hate that. I hate that song sounds like that.

[9:46] Andrew DeWolf: And that's the gut to be scared.

[9:48] Traci Thomas: I get oh my god, I love that song. Also, the new Cassie song is better than the old Cassie's the movie Cassie song is better. Let me dance for you is better than God, I'm a dancer, and a dancer dances. It is, it just objectively is.

[10:03] Andrew DeWolf: And the dancing is better in the movie by a million percent. Are you kidding?

[10:07] Traci Thomas: There are some good points being made both ways here.

[10:09] Andrew DeWolf: I'm not sure. The choreography in the movie is so much better than the choreography on Broadway.

[10:14] Traci Thomas: I will say this. That is some of the best shot choreography, and I think it doesn't get enough credit for that, because like for Richard Attenborough not being a musical director, uh coming in here and just kind of doing this as a straight film, he shoots those musical numbers very well.

[10:28] Andrew DeWolf: And I think the first one sequence is very, very well executed.

[10:33] Traci Thomas: Everything else is very bad, in my opinion.

[10:35] Andrew DeWolf: It might be I think that one is better on the stage because when they all come out with the quick change, I think that's really impressive, like as an audience, like watching them come out and they're all quickly changed and they're like glammed up, and you're like, yes.

[10:46] Traci Thomas: And a kick line is always better in person than in a film. And I think that the there's a lot going on in one in in the movie, whereas on the stage, I just feel like it's really clean classic.

[10:59] Traci Thomas: But I still like the end of the movie. Like I still like one in the movie, but I just think like when that first person I think it's I think it's Paul. I think when the first person pops out for one and they like put the hat on the head and they like walk out like backwards on the stage. It's just it's great on stage. It's just like that's theater magic to me, right? Like, oh, how'd they do it?

[11:17] Andrew DeWolf: I think what I mean to say here is they're both equally effective in their mediums, meaning the theater one is super effective. But that the one sequence in the film, they use close-ups to show how demented their smiles look and how much pain they have behind the eyes. Like that is where that really show shown to me. Like that is where that really kind of paid off.

[11:35] Traci Thomas: I agree. I agree. I think it's no, I do think that number is great. I just think the magic of it is on the stage.

[11:44] Andrew DeWolf: But I do, I mean, look, I'm gonna stand the movie really hard, so I will take any movie compliments you're willing to give.

[11:50] Traci Thomas: Um it's Miss Darby says Cassie. That's a high school musical thing. I only know that because of Letterboxd, um, that she's the teacher from high school musical.

[12:01] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, I don't know the high school musical.

[12:04] Traci Thomas: Um, I I know the Zillenials. That's Jess's favorite show.

[12:08] Andrew DeWolf: So you're gonna have to fight him on that.

[12:11] Traci Thomas: That's uh who's that?

[12:13] Andrew DeWolf: It's it's Zach Efron.

[12:14] Traci Thomas: Is he in that?

[12:16] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, he's in that. He's in all three of them.

[12:19] Traci Thomas: There's three.

[12:22] Andrew DeWolf: I think there's four.

[12:24] Traci Thomas: No, there's three.

[12:25] Andrew DeWolf: Does it make it?

[12:27] Traci Thomas: They have the TV show. High School Musical.

[12:29] Andrew DeWolf: Zach Efron is not in the TV show.

[12:31] Andrew DeWolf: No, but it's called high school musical, the musical, the TV show, or something weird like that.

[12:36] Traci Thomas: High school musical musical, the series.

[12:38] Andrew DeWolf: The series.

[12:38] Traci Thomas: I knew something weird.

[12:39] Andrew DeWolf: I heard something like that.

[12:40] Traci Thomas: Which is is like a that it's a farcical name.

[12:45] Andrew DeWolf: It's a very strangely self-aware show.

[12:47] Traci Thomas: Um, but what is the plot of A Chorus Line, Tracy?

[12:50] Traci Thomas: If you go to explain to someone that's never seen it, like, how would you describe the plot?

[12:55] Traci Thomas: Okay. Debrief, Brace doesn't know anything about it. Well, it's a trick question.

[13:01] Traci Thomas: Okay. So A Chorus Line is an audition for a chorus of a Broadway musical. And instead of it just being an audition where the dancers come in and they dance and maybe they sing some counts of eight, the director decides, I'm on a power trip. I'm gonna make you tell me about your life. And I just don't want to know the normal stuff about your life. I want you to tell me what makes you you. And so then they stand, he stands them all in a line, the people who are like at the final part of the audition, and they go step forward sort of one at a time, and they tell them about their lives. And then in the end, he has to make cuts. No spoilers, my god. Not in a moon, I don't want anyone not to know.

I can't remember who gets cut, so I can help you, don't worry. At the end, people are cut, and that is the story. So we learn we get to learn about the dancers because on the Broadway, so often the ensemble, we never get to learn about them. How'd I do it? The director's like, it's audition time. Time for the emotional abuse.

[13:59] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[14:00] Traci Thomas: Um, speaking of emotional abuse, do you know anything about how this show was put together, Tracy?

[14:06] Traci Thomas: I don't know that I know the full backstory. I have that I have a feeling you do, though, so go ahead.

[14:12] Traci Thomas: I did. I did a little, I did a little research into this today. Um so this was an idea originally conceived by Michael Bennett, who was the as the album credits, uh conceiver, choreographer, and director. Um he co-choreographed it with Bob Avion, who would direct the the revival in 2006. Um basically what he did is he sat down a bunch of his dancer friends and just passed a tape recorder and recorded them from 12 hours and then put a lot of their stuff, verbatim, into monologues and then turned that into song. And then a lot of those individuals were either put in different roles or not included in this altogether, and they all sold their life rights to this man to claim that he conceived and wrote it for one dollar per person because they were scared he would yell at them if they didn't. He was a very aggressive director.

Uh very I won't want to say mean, but cruel in a way that even Bob Fossey didn't get. Like one time an actor, I think it was the the gentleman that played Paul, was like, um, what do you need from me? He's like, I need you to cry this time. I need you to go out there and cry tonight. And he's like, Well, how do you want me to do that? How do you want me to do that, Michael? And he's like, just remember how much I fucking hate you. And he's like, I don't know, but those are the magic words. I sure cried that night.

[15:31] Traci Thomas: Well. It's autobiographical in more than one way, I guess. I mean, a showbiz kid. You can't cry. How'd you get the part? You know what I'm saying? It's Broadway. He he he it's his life, you know.

[15:43] Traci Thomas: Well, that's kind of the part. Bring it, Paul. I'm with Michael. If you're not gonna I mean I fucking hate Paul too, so honestly, I get it.

[15:51] Andrew DeWolf: Maybe you just hate Paul. What did Paul do to you?

[15:54] Traci Thomas: I mean, I I don't know. It's just I mean, no, I don't hate Paul. It's just like such a sad part. It's like, well, I don't know. It's like everyone's having a good time. We're talking about the ballet, and then all of a sudden here he comes, and it's like trauma and like sexual. I don't know. It just is like it's so heavy. And I just I'm I'm waiting for the finale, you know. I'm waiting for it. I want Tits and S.

[16:17] Andrew DeWolf: Well, it's like after all that, too. It's like you can't really go back to like mom taught me how to or my sister taught me how to tap dance. Like, once you get to I was sexually abused as a young person working in a nightclub, it's sort of like what I did for love, okay. Let's go. You know, it's like let's get to the finale. But think about how groundbreaking that would seem in the 70s if you just had a scene and a monologue like that. You kind of gotta contextualize it in that moment.

[16:42] Traci Thomas: I think that I am one of the six people on the planet Earth who do does not care about Paul. I think almost every other single human who's ever seen the show is deeply moved by Paul. I have I am heartless, and that is why. I also think one of the things though that's interesting about the show, like the history of it, and this I do know, is that a lot of the people who were part of of Michael Bennett's world and also part of the show, like the the dancers who are part of it, were ended up dying of AIDS soon thereafter. And so this show definitely lives firmly in a place of the 70s. I think because of that history, and I think also because this show is so close to the change that kind of wiped out Broadway in a lot of ways.

[17:29] Andrew DeWolf: Um wonder why Andrew Lloyd Weber kept winning Tonies. That's why.

[17:36] Traci Thomas: Well, I mean, I think there were still good shows after that.

[17:39] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, yeah, but it it kind of like there was one year where there was only two musicals nominated.

[17:44] Traci Thomas: Yeah.

[17:44] Andrew DeWolf: Oh boy. Like, cause that that's just how big that that culture was wiped out.

[17:49] Traci Thomas: It was really, really tragic.

[17:50] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[17:51] Traci Thomas: Really sad. Anyway, sorry to be a downer.

[17:54] Andrew DeWolf: Way to be a Paul.

[17:55] Traci Thomas: Yeah. Wow, real Paul, real Paul going on.

[17:58] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, so let's get to the finale. I feel like we're done. Can't go back.

[18:01] Traci Thomas: No, no, no, no. Uh we're going right back. Don't worry. We're f I just did a Yui. We're all the way back.

[18:07] Traci Thomas: So, there's a lot of characters in this, and I think, you know what? I'm gonna change what I was gonna ask. Tracy, why don't you tell us which character you think we're most like? Since you're the chorus line officiating.

[18:21] Traci Thomas: Like, end with yourself. That'll be the big finale there.

[18:23] Traci Thomas: Okay, well, it's no surprise I'm gonna tell you exactly who you think. Um, who do I think you're each? Well, Brie, I feel like you're giving me very strong Maggie vibes. You're very quiet, very calm over there. We love a Maggie. Um, very great. Good for you. Congratulations. You have the best voice in the show. Hit that. She has the best voice in this podcast, too.

[18:43] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[18:43] Traci Thomas: I think she could actually nail the at the bell.

[18:46] Andrew DeWolf: I think she could actually.

[18:47] Traci Thomas: Oh I could. I guess that's you. I got a nice range. That's you. Perfect. Boom. Wonderful. Okay. Perfect. Nailed it. Um gosh, I don't know. This is so hard. How about um Jess you can be?

[19:04] Traci Thomas: I don't know. I'm so stressed out. Okay. Um don't offend him. I think you could be I think you could be Bobby.

[19:13] Andrew DeWolf: Now I gotta remember who Bobby is again.

[19:15] Traci Thomas: Bobby's the one who spray painted the boy Silver. Oh, like sort of like the like weird contrarian who like used to say weird shit just to like make people be like, hmm. I gotcha. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like that's you.

[19:28] Andrew DeWolf: Okay.

[19:29] Traci Thomas: Andrew, you're you're um, I'm watching Cisco Pitter Pat. I could do that because I feel like you don't really know anything that's going on, and you sort of just showed up and you're like, okay, I'm gonna do it.

[19:40] Andrew DeWolf: That is exactly who I wanted you to. That's exactly who I wanted you to pick.

[19:43] Traci Thomas: And I am Val, as I mentioned before. The only I told my husband that when I die, I wanted to say in my obituary, played Val in high school in A Chorus Line. It's my proudest achievement. I went to NYU for theater, and yet I still care about being Val in high school. A loser.

[20:04] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, yep, yep. I think that all checks out. I'm the pretentious one, he's the overzealous one, and she's the good singer.

[20:11] Traci Thomas: Yes.

[20:11] Andrew DeWolf: And then I'm the egomaniac.

[20:14] Traci Thomas: Congratulations. We've done it. You know what? I'm I'm I I mostly agree. I was afraid you were gonna say oh Zach, to be honest.

[20:20] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, no.

[20:21] Traci Thomas: Yeah, I'm not sure. Which one's Zach?

[20:23] Andrew DeWolf: The director.

[20:24] Traci Thomas: Oh, the director. Oh god. I think I think Jess might have been like a I'm looking at a list here. Mark, the the goneria one.

[20:33] Andrew DeWolf: That was my actual backup for you.

[20:37] Traci Thomas: Because he's also sort of like the young naive one who's like new to the game. That's sort of how I think of you in this space of this musical thing.

[20:44] Andrew DeWolf: But I'd never talk to a priest.

[20:46] Traci Thomas: Okay, fair. Well, I don't have breast implants either, but I feel like we're just kind of going off vibes, you know?

[20:52] Andrew DeWolf: It's not a good one.

[20:53] Traci Thomas: Well, okay, fair, fair, fair, fair. Well, you you could you have four bras on top of each other.

[20:58] Andrew DeWolf: I could. I could at any time, don't mind me.

[21:02] Traci Thomas: Um, on that note, how about we go into our favorite segment? Um, it's a time where we compare our opinions to those of the New York theater critics when the show came out. It's time for brevie.

[21:14] Traci Thomas: This is the best. This is the best part of the show. It's Tom for previews.

[21:16] Andrew DeWolf: It's Tom for previews.

[21:23] Traci Thomas: So we got a Ben Brantley real quick, though.

[21:26] Andrew DeWolf: Oh god.

[21:27] Traci Thomas: We do. We do have a Ben Brantley.

[21:29] Traci Thomas: Okay. Ben Brantley in his 2006 review for the New York Times wrote that for five thrilling, fleeting minutes, it's heaven on Broadway. One of those howled occasions in theater when anxious expectation is transformed in a heartbeat into sweet uh consummation.

[21:50] Andrew DeWolf: 10 out of 10.

[21:52] Traci Thomas: Ben. The ecstasy of this chorus line, which in its first incarnation ran on Broadway from 1975 to 1990 and won pretty much every award on offer, arrives and departs prematurely as the that introductory rush of timelessness congeals into a time warp.

[22:15] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, basically.

[22:16] Traci Thomas: What's he trying to say here?

[22:17] Andrew DeWolf: He's saying that the revival sucks.

[22:19] Traci Thomas: The first five revival was lack, which is exactly what I said. And I don't think we really need to go beyond that because I think he just kind of says more on that, like, well, you want to see what Bennett did was good, and then Avian, what is it? What's he doing?

[22:32] Andrew DeWolf: What does he say about Paul?

[22:35] Traci Thomas: Probably like it was the most incredible part of the night because Jason Tam was very good.

[22:40] Andrew DeWolf: Fellow NYU alum.

[22:42] Traci Thomas: Jason Tam is very good. Like, how do you not like Paul when Jason Tam's playing him? He was great. He was the best Paul I've ever seen.

[22:49] Andrew DeWolf: Okay. Don't tell the kid who played it with me in high school.

[22:53] Traci Thomas: Low bar. I think was he nominated or something? I feel like people were really into that performance. It was good. I don't remember. 2006, was that the uh the the color purple year?

[23:05] Andrew DeWolf: 2006 Tony's.

[23:07] Traci Thomas: Oh, 2000 Color Purple, I think was 2007 or 8, maybe, right?

[23:12] Andrew DeWolf: No, 2008 was Lynn Manuel. Yeah, that's when he came.

[23:17] Traci Thomas: That's Passing Strange, my other favorite musical. Yeah, that got beaten up by Lynn Manuel. Uh oh yeah, 2006 was Color Purple year.

[23:26] Andrew DeWolf: So where's A Chorus Line this year?

[23:29] Traci Thomas: Oh, oh, it's 2007 then, because I have my it came out. Tony judgment rules is stupid. So let's see. 2007, what was this up again? Let's see if Tam was even Nope, not even nominated.

[23:43] Andrew DeWolf: Great.

[23:43] Traci Thomas: Summer. Nobody likes Paul.

[23:46] Andrew DeWolf: It's such a small part. It would be hard.

[23:47] Traci Thomas: But you know, featured out here. I thought maybe there was a chance. No, it doesn't look like that. That was the Spring Awakening Legally Blonde year.

[23:54] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, legally blonde. Another fave.

[23:57] Traci Thomas: Um, yeah. Heart hard agree there. Um, but are you ready for a game of letterbox reviews, one star or five stars, where we're gonna read reviews of the movie A Chorus Line from Letterboxd. Actual reviews, none of these are made up. Um, and you have to guess whether the review was a five-star review or a one-star review.

[24:16] Andrew DeWolf: Okay.

[24:16] Traci Thomas: And you and Andrew are going head to head.

[24:19] Traci Thomas: Oh my gosh. Okay. All right, Bree, whose team do you want to be on?

[24:25] Brianna Jones: I flap between our guest and Andrew each time, so this time I'm with Andrew.

[24:29] Traci Thomas: Okay. Tracy, it's you and me.

[24:31] Traci Thomas: We're a team. I're on team. I'm sorry.

[24:33] Brianna Jones: No, it's fine, Bree. It's fine. You're not Maggie anymore. You're Sheila. Congratulations.

[24:39] Traci Thomas: I have to go, actually.

[24:43] Andrew DeWolf: Maggie, what do you like to dance?

[24:45] Traci Thomas: I said, Daddy, I would love to.

[24:48] Andrew DeWolf: All right, ready?

[24:49] Traci Thomas: Yes.

[24:50] Traci Thomas: Okay. So it is fun to see Michael Douglas get fed up with their theater kid bullshit.

[24:58] Andrew DeWolf: Sounds crazy.

[24:58] Traci Thomas: That is a one star.

[25:05] Brianna Jones: All right, Bree.

[25:06] Andrew DeWolf: What we got?

[25:07] Brianna Jones: Alright, Andrew.

[25:08] Andrew DeWolf: So delicious and yummy.

[25:13] Brianna Jones: Okay.

[25:14] Jess McEnally: Um five?

[25:16] Andrew DeWolf: Five?

[25:16] Jess McEnally: Yeah.

[25:17] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, she gave up performance.

[25:18] Brianna Jones: I didn't know you were helping him.

[25:21] Jess McEnally: Okay, okay, okay.

[25:22] Brianna Jones: You ready?

[25:23] Jess McEnally: This is it's you gotta take that up with Jess.

[25:25] Andrew DeWolf: He's supposed to help you.

[25:28] Brianna Jones: Got it.

[25:29] Andrew DeWolf: Mine was written in all lowercase, so.

[25:32] Jess McEnally: The Cassie storyline is truly uninteresting.

[25:35] Traci Thomas: LMAO.

[25:39] Jess McEnally: Okay.

[25:40] Traci Thomas: So you're really not helping at all.

[25:42] Jess McEnally: I would like to switch guest readers.

[25:45] Traci Thomas: I am trying to give the implication of the writer's intent.

[25:45] Jess McEnally: Okay.

[25:45] Traci Thomas: The writer's intent.

[25:52] Jess McEnally: Every time I'm with Jess, I lose.

[25:56] Andrew DeWolf: Alright, all right.

[25:57] Jess McEnally: I'll try to do better.

[25:58] Andrew DeWolf: Alright, Andrew.

[26:00] Jess McEnally: This is a tough one.

[26:01] Andrew DeWolf: Ready?

[26:01] Traci Thomas: Okay, okay.

[26:02] Jess McEnally: Fashion.

[26:07] Traci Thomas: Um yeah, I mean uh five five stars?

[26:12] Jess McEnally: No.

[26:12] Traci Thomas: Wow.

[26:14] Andrew DeWolf: That person's an idiot.

[26:15] Traci Thomas: It is fashion and it is five stars.

[26:17] Jess McEnally: The green outfit that she wears when she does BB's outfit in the opening, when she's doing the body rolls, give me a break.

[26:23] Traci Thomas: The tank top.

[26:26] Jess McEnally: There's a lot of really good outfits.

[26:27] Traci Thomas: I didn't see headbands.

[26:29] Jess McEnally: That's my favorite character.

[26:30] Traci Thomas: Also, Judy Turner with her headband and her leggings and her little crop top.

[26:35] Jess McEnally: If that's not fashion, I don't know what is reviewer.

[26:40] Traci Thomas: Was there a question mark at the end of that, or did it just say fashion with like a period?

[26:44] Jess McEnally: There's a period.

[26:45] Traci Thomas: Let me look at this fashion and chorus line.

[26:48] Jess McEnally: Alright, alright.

[26:49] Traci Thomas: Alright, Tracy, you ready?

[26:51] Jess McEnally: Okay.

[26:51] Traci Thomas: Well, no, we'll see.

[26:54] Jess McEnally: Are you ready?

[26:55] Traci Thomas: Is a question.

[26:56] Jess McEnally: I am ready.

[26:57] Traci Thomas: Okay, I'm gonna try to give some implication here, alright?

[27:00] Jess McEnally: Please nervous.

[27:01] Traci Thomas: What are those thin pants that show the full bulge?

[27:04] Jess McEnally: And how do I get some?

[27:06] Traci Thomas: Okay.

[27:08] Jess McEnally: That took me on a ride.

[27:09] Traci Thomas: That went from one to five stars.

[27:11] Jess McEnally: Did someone just clip?

[27:12] Traci Thomas: Can someone just clip Jess saying that?

[27:14] Jess McEnally: I was trying to give him performance there.

[27:17] Traci Thomas: I also just want to say that that ties into the last one.

[27:20] Jess McEnally: And the last one was a one star, but because I love this musical and I only know how to love this musical.

[27:24] Traci Thomas: I'm saying five stars.

[27:26] Jess McEnally: That is correct.

[27:27] Traci Thomas: Yes.

[27:28] Jess McEnally: Y'all are tied.

[27:30] Traci Thomas: We love a bulge.

[27:32] Jess McEnally: Where do I get one of those?

[27:34] Traci Thomas: Where do I get one of those?

[27:37] Jess McEnally: But there are a lot of bulges in that movie.

[27:39] Traci Thomas: Dance bell, hello.

[27:41] Jess McEnally: Fashion?

[27:45] Brianna Jones: All right, Brie.

[27:45] Andrew DeWolf: All right.

[27:46] Traci Thomas: Wow.

[27:46] Jess McEnally: This year is one singular sensation.

[27:49] Traci Thomas: Said it like sarcastically.

[27:51] Jess McEnally: I feel like I have to go with that.

[27:52] Traci Thomas: So the one star?

[27:54] Jess McEnally: No, those five stars, but they didn't use any caps.

[27:58] Traci Thomas: So see what now she's not helping.

[28:01] Jess McEnally: Yeah, she's not helping.

[28:02] Traci Thomas: I I I gamed this game.

[28:04] Jess McEnally: Do we have a tiebreaker or do I win because I gotta be.

[28:07] Traci Thomas: Oh, there's several more?

[28:08] Jess McEnally: We got a couple more.

[28:09] Traci Thomas: You're not we got a couple.

[28:11] Jess McEnally: Don't you worry.

[28:12] Traci Thomas: Okay.

[28:13] Jess McEnally: The stress is on.

[28:14] Traci Thomas: It keeps going.

[28:14] Jess McEnally: The hot season.

[28:16] Traci Thomas: Um are you ready?

[28:17] Jess McEnally: No, go ahead.

[28:18] Traci Thomas: Okay.

[28:19] Jess McEnally: This is cherry emoji plus peach emoji.

[28:23] Traci Thomas: Well, that's gotta be five stars.

[28:24] Jess McEnally: That's tits and ass, baby.

[28:26] Traci Thomas: That's a one.

[28:27] Jess McEnally: What?

[28:29] Traci Thomas: You took the time to put uh those emojis and then to give it a one star.

[28:35] Jess McEnally: My god.

[28:35] Traci Thomas: Yep.

[28:36] Jess McEnally: Why would you do this?

[28:37] Traci Thomas: This is a problem.

[28:38] Jess McEnally: Wow.

[28:38] Traci Thomas: I'm offended.

[28:39] Jess McEnally: Where where do these people like where do they come from?

[28:42] Traci Thomas: Um the underground.

[28:44] Jess McEnally: They come out and they're like, I have terrible opinions on movies.

[28:50] Traci Thomas: I must share.

[28:52] Brianna Jones: Alright, Brie.

[28:53] Andrew DeWolf: I should not be this hard from Miss Darvis Ash cheeks.

[28:58] Traci Thomas: Letterbox, a cesspool of humans.

[29:03] Jess McEnally: It's uh five stars.

[29:04] Traci Thomas: That's a one-star.

[29:06] Jess McEnally: What's wrong with these people?

[29:08] Traci Thomas: Don't like being hard for Miss Darvis, apparently.

[29:10] Jess McEnally: Are these two sentence reviews?

[29:13] Traci Thomas: Or are you guys just cherry picking up?

[29:15] Jess McEnally: This is all one sentence review.

[29:17] Traci Thomas: People just write one sentence reviews.

[29:19] Jess McEnally: People do just write one sentence.

[29:20] Traci Thomas: Some people write like multiple paragraphs, but since but I want to be here a thousand unless they're really funny, I don't pick them.

[29:25] Jess McEnally: Got it.

[29:26] Traci Thomas: Okay, got it.

[29:27] Jess McEnally: This is possible.

[29:29] Traci Thomas: Yeah.

[29:29] Jess McEnally: He finds the the worst ones.

[29:32] Traci Thomas: Okay, okay.

[29:32] Jess McEnally: Are you ready for another one?

[29:34] Traci Thomas: Yes.

[29:34] Jess McEnally: I think this will be easy.

[29:36] Traci Thomas: Um Bree took mine, so No, sorry.

[29:39] Jess McEnally: Um I'm so fucking pissed.

[29:41] Traci Thomas: It's exactly 3.01 a.m.

[29:43] Jess McEnally: and I sat through this whole thing, and not fucking once did Michael Douglas sing what the actual fuck.

[29:50] Traci Thomas: Well, I guess that's a one-star.

[29:52] Jess McEnally: That is a one-star.

[29:54] Traci Thomas: I think I started the caps right when I was supposed to start the caps.

[29:58] Jess McEnally: Would you say that?

[29:59] Traci Thomas: That was a good performance.

[30:00] Jess McEnally: I feel like you really did a good job.

[30:02] Traci Thomas: Because the caps started halfway through the word not.

[30:06] Jess McEnally: Halfway.

[30:07] Traci Thomas: Yes.

[30:08] Jess McEnally: Lowercase N.

[30:09] Traci Thomas: The rest capitalized until the end of the review.

[30:12] Jess McEnally: We love it.

[30:12] Traci Thomas: Creativity.

[30:13] Jess McEnally: Bonus.

[30:14] Traci Thomas: Good to good to hear to see.

[30:16] Jess McEnally: Um, let's see.

[30:17] Traci Thomas: Also, you're you're you're you're in the lead, Tracy.

[30:21] Jess McEnally: Yes.

[30:22] Traci Thomas: Let's see.

[30:22] Jess McEnally: We need a good one.

[30:23] Traci Thomas: Really help me out here, Brie.

[30:25] Jess McEnally: Come on.

[30:26] Traci Thomas: Do it do it for the other lady in the group.

[30:28] Jess McEnally: Step, kick, kick, leap, kick, touch, again.

[30:34] Traci Thomas: Okay.

[30:35] Jess McEnally: He did that like high inflection.

[30:37] Traci Thomas: Um that usually means five.

[30:39] Jess McEnally: I'm gonna go with five.

[30:40] Traci Thomas: That was a five.

[30:41] Jess McEnally: Wow.

[30:42] Traci Thomas: Oh, you're tied.

[30:43] Jess McEnally: It's the last round.

[30:46] Traci Thomas: Oh, okay.

[30:48] Jess McEnally: I'm starting to get stressed out about the state of humanity.

[30:52] Traci Thomas: Alright, you ready for this?

[30:54] Jess McEnally: Yes.

[30:55] Traci Thomas: I'm gonna try to give inflection to help, alright?

[30:57] Jess McEnally: Okay.

[30:58] Traci Thomas: If I get this wrong, it's your fault if I get it right.

[31:00] Jess McEnally: Great teamwork.

[31:01] Traci Thomas: Thank you.

[31:02] Jess McEnally: This shit was whack.

[31:03] Traci Thomas: I like how it it has no point or plot line whatsoever.

[31:07] Jess McEnally: I also like the personality of each character.

[31:10] Traci Thomas: They had their own story to tell.

[31:12] Jess McEnally: It was a little confusing, but it was overall intriguing.

[31:15] Traci Thomas: Jess, you found my review?

[31:16] Jess McEnally: I when did I only posted that yesterday?

[31:19] Traci Thomas: I just feel like that took me on a ride again.

[31:22] Jess McEnally: And I wanna say it's a one star, but they seem so happy word.

[31:30] Traci Thomas: Alright, so it must be a five star.

[31:30] Jess McEnally: Yes it was!

[31:31] Traci Thomas: It meant every word.

[31:31] Jess McEnally: Yes, but I love this show.

[31:36] Traci Thomas: This was whack.

[31:37] Jess McEnally: We love to see it.

[31:39] Traci Thomas: Creativity points again.

[31:40] Andrew DeWolf: Alright, Andrew, she's a chance to do it.

[31:40] Jess McEnally: It's like featured Michael Jackson dad, you know.

[31:43] Traci Thomas: Just see if you can tie it up here, Andrew.

[31:45] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, okay.

[31:46] Traci Thomas: If Miss Darbus of high school musical fame can play Cassie, damn it, so can I.

[31:52] Jess McEnally: Um, which one's Cassie?

[31:54] Andrew DeWolf: Believe the how dare you.

[31:57] Jess McEnally: Okay, never mind.

[31:58] Andrew DeWolf: Cassie's the one that's with the uh the director, right?

[32:00] Traci Thomas: Or was.

[32:01] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[32:02] Traci Thomas: I feel like the Miss Darvis thing is like a bad joke, so I'm gonna go with a one.

[32:07] Jess McEnally: That's right.

[32:08] Andrew DeWolf: Wow.

[32:08] Traci Thomas: Hey, you guys tied it up, and we had a game of fun.

[32:12] Jess McEnally: Well, that was fun.

[32:14] Traci Thomas: Also, our reviewer, you cannot play Cassie, okay?

[32:18] Jess McEnally: Miss Darvis is a talent, so get a grip.

[32:22] Traci Thomas: I'm tired of all these thinking they can play.

[32:24] Jess McEnally: That game was whack.

[32:27] Traci Thomas: Meaning it was.

[32:28] Jess McEnally: Those reviewers made a lot of sense and all had really good points.

[32:32] Traci Thomas: And I'm at the ballot powers, no plaline.

[32:37] Jess McEnally: I liked how some of them didn't make any sense at all.

[32:40] Traci Thomas: Overall, I found it intriguing.

[32:45] Jess McEnally: Five stars.

[32:47] Traci Thomas: Alright, how about we go into a mid show and then we talk about some of these songs?

[32:56] Jess McEnally: Um, hey guys, sorry to interrupt you in the middle of the show, but we've got a sh shoe at you.

[33:02] Andrew DeWolf: Today's show is brought to you by the extremely kind donations by our donors over at Patreon.

[33:06] Traci Thomas: Andrew, what's Patreon?

[33:07] Andrew DeWolf: What happens over there?

[33:08] Traci Thomas: Oh boy, that's where you go to give us money and get extra content.

[33:12] Andrew DeWolf: You can see the video version of our episodes.

[33:14] Traci Thomas: You can watch uh the second shorter podcast we do, commentary stuff we do, lots of stuff.

[33:22] Andrew DeWolf: Monthly Patreon meetups where you get to hang out and play games.

[33:25] Traci Thomas: Absolutely.

[33:26] Andrew DeWolf: And uh I guess if you give us enough money, you can force us to read stuff.

[33:30] Traci Thomas: Yes.

[33:31] Andrew DeWolf: Or have us force our guests to read stuff.

[33:33] Traci Thomas: Yes, our incredible guest is gonna be forced to read this line given to us by our 100 patron donor, Joseph Evans Green, and he can write one paragraph that we have to say every episode no matter what.

[33:45] Andrew DeWolf: Are you ready for this, Tracy?

[33:47] Traci Thomas: Yes.

[33:48] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, here it is.

[33:51] Traci Thomas: There's a star man, he plays in blue and white.

[33:54] Andrew DeWolf: His name's I don't know who that is, and he's Dynamite.

[33:59] Traci Thomas: Wilfred me the ball off you.

[34:05] Andrew DeWolf: And finally, ooh, James Vardy.

[34:07] Traci Thomas: Ooh, James Fardy.

[34:09] Andrew DeWolf: Seems like Jamie Vardy.

[34:10] Traci Thomas: Is this a song?

[34:11] Andrew DeWolf: I have no idea.

[34:12] Traci Thomas: Apparently it's a cheer.

[34:15] Andrew DeWolf: I want to do like uh David Bowie, like there's a star man, right?

[34:20] Traci Thomas: Like, that's the song.

[34:21] Andrew DeWolf: See, in Europe, that same line every week.

[34:21] Traci Thomas: Every week.

[34:26] Andrew DeWolf: It's terrible.

[34:27] Traci Thomas: And that person doesn't change it.

[34:29] Andrew DeWolf: They don't change it.

[34:30] Traci Thomas: They have the option to.

[34:31] Andrew DeWolf: They can do it whenever they want.

[34:32] Traci Thomas: They just choose not to.

[34:34] Andrew DeWolf: And that person's not your parent or like family member, just a stranger.

[34:38] Traci Thomas: Nope.

[34:38] Andrew DeWolf: It is a good one.

[34:40] Traci Thomas: My biggest patron is my mother, obviously.

[34:42] Andrew DeWolf: Actually, that's not true.

[34:43] Traci Thomas: She downgraded our patron.

[34:46] Andrew DeWolf: Well, Andrew, your content's really gone downhill.

[34:49] Traci Thomas: Your mother stopped being a patron, so your mom just downgraded too.

[34:53] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, dang.

[34:54] Traci Thomas: Yeah.

[34:55] Andrew DeWolf: Our moms are like tired of our bullshit.

[34:57] Traci Thomas: They're like, okay, it was cute.

[34:59] Andrew DeWolf: Get a job.

[35:02] Traci Thomas: On that note, the people that are stopping us from getting a job are Melissa Goldman, John Donald, Layton Ackles, Danielle Rennox, Jessica Stampede, Eve Wynn Cassidy, Tess Gier, Monica Thoreau, Mia Maniri, Brent Black, Lathaniel, Stacey Coomb, Joseph Evans Green, he's the guy, Carrie Ahern, Mary Louis Choquette, John Vanelles, Russ Walker, Mesigal Hell, Emily Gracie, Kyle Summers, Jin A C, Scoot in the Technicolor, Dreamcoat, Liz Lim, Allison Stellar, nothing is certain except Beth and Taxes, Fesbian, Ren Cullen, Raphael, Martinez Salaz, Robert Benjamin, Jessica T, Mitchell Young, Chai Teacup, Katie McDonough, Timothy Keyes, Chris Marcote, Temimu Robinson, Kiji Marie Anastasio, Layla, RJ Norija, Sebastian Canino, Evan Regan, Charlie B, Patrick Deering, Joe, Avery Brinson, Marilyn Brown, Mel Cormac, La Femme Fictionale, Bjorn Hermans, August Gorman, Mac the Knife, Erica S.

[35:53] Traci Thomas: Toriana Frasier, um, Sammy the Most Lopez, Liana Morton, Angela, and Kaylee Blazier.

[35:59] Andrew DeWolf: And they all support us over at Patreon and key help us keep the lights on, help us keep Brie employed, and you know what, just make our lives a little bit better.

[36:06] Traci Thomas: So if you want to join our fun community of people that love each other kind of, come join us over at Patreon.

[36:13] Andrew DeWolf: That's all you just read all your Patreons.

[36:15] Traci Thomas: You do it every week.

[36:16] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[36:16] Traci Thomas: Or is that a certain tier?

[36:18] Andrew DeWolf: Nope, that's everyone.

[36:19] Traci Thomas: That's everyone.

[36:20] Andrew DeWolf: That's so nice.

[36:21] Traci Thomas: But you know what?

[36:22] Andrew DeWolf: Let's not talk about our Patreon benefits right now.

[36:24] Traci Thomas: Let's get back to the show.

[36:33] Jess McEnally: God, I think I got it.

[36:35] Andrew DeWolf: I think I got it.

[36:36] Traci Thomas: I do be like me all the time.

[36:39] Jess McEnally: Still in this army!

[36:41] Andrew DeWolf: It is over.

[36:46] Traci Thomas: I hope I get it.

[36:47] Jess McEnally: I hope I get it.

[36:49] Traci Thomas: The opening number, I hope I get it, plus like all the stuff that comes before it.

[36:53] Jess McEnally: Absolutely incredible opening.

[36:54] Traci Thomas: One of the best openings of musical theater history.

[36:56] Jess McEnally: Agreed.

[36:57] Traci Thomas: Yeah, it's really good.

[36:58] Jess McEnally: It's uh the dancing is a lot of fun.

[37:00] Traci Thomas: And you know, that's all you need, really.

[37:03] Jess McEnally: But the music is good too.

[37:04] Traci Thomas: So it's just kind of solid.

[37:06] Jess McEnally: It's so great.

[37:06] Traci Thomas: No, no negatives to say.

[37:08] Jess McEnally: Like, that's kind of the problem with this show.

[37:09] Traci Thomas: Is like, I don't think the problems with it are in the songs.

[37:12] Jess McEnally: It's a lot of structural things, but they're even those are pretty minor.

[37:16] Traci Thomas: Like, well, how did you do it?

[37:17] Jess McEnally: How did you learn the song?

[37:18] Traci Thomas: Like, what was the how'd they break it down for you when you did the show?

[37:21] Jess McEnally: What do you mean?

[37:22] Traci Thomas: How did I learn the music to course like?

[37:25] Jess McEnally: No, no, no.

[37:25] Traci Thomas: Like, like, what what do they tell you when they're bringing you up?

[37:28] Jess McEnally: Like when they stage it, because I'm always curious, like, all right, so how do you it's pretending to audition on stage?

[37:35] Traci Thomas: I don't know. That just sounds like it's like. So the choreography itself is actually very difficult, and that was on purpose. So Michael Bennett made the choreography purposefully difficult so that even if you did it eight shows a week, you still would have to like actually work at it. Because it's it's like just like the there's like a lot of weird balance shifts and like the way that the weight, like there's like that weird turn where it's like turn, turn out, in, up, down, pivot step, walk, walk, walk. It's just like a lot of like weird stuff, and that was on purpose so that the actors would either struggle and like look sloppy, or they would like have an out if they were having like a bad day, and they like you know, like need it, needed a break. Um, so is that is that answer your question?

[38:20] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, because I was always curious. Like, are there like ones that are like all right, you are the you're the worst dance? You're the you're the bad one.

[38:26] Traci Thomas: Well, yeah, I think I think it comes out in the show too, like certain characters. Like, I think Mark, who's I'm watching Cisco Pitter Pat, like he can't fuck up the opening. Like his whole thing is like, I learned how to dance from watching other people and I'm great. I think like Sheila's character, we know she's older, she's tired. Like there's the line where it's like, Sheila, what are you doing? And she's like, I knew it when I was in front. So I feel like there's definitely some characters where it's like written in. Um, and then some characters it's like, okay, whatever. Like it happened, you know. And then I think like all the background people. That's it, that's a tough part.

[38:59] Andrew DeWolf: Oh mom, I'm finally making my Broadway debut in a chorus line.

[39:02] Traci Thomas: Oh, which one are you?

[39:03] Andrew DeWolf: I get caught and I don't come back till the finale.

[39:05] Traci Thomas: Yeah, that that must that's not something I don't even I didn't even think about until this moment. Like well, in our high school, we're jealous.

[39:05] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[39:13] Traci Thomas: I think in I think in the Broadway show, they sing, like they're singers also who like fill in the vocal. Um, you know, like off stage, whatever. But in our high school production, there was some tender seniors. Let me just put it that way. There were some seniors who didn't feel like it was fair. And you know what I said to them? Do better, bitch. I can do that. I can do that.

[39:37] Traci Thomas: Um this also serves as a really good I want song, because there isn't in the stage show at least the movie different story, there isn't a real main character. There's like characters that have more time, but there isn't like a focal character, which also to Andrew's taste detriment um to the story, because he can't focus on anyone.

[39:53] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I have I, you know, I can't focus at all. So you know, I just kind of uh with this one, I I kind of let it just wash over me a bit and like enjoy the music and the dancing. And uh I tried not to let it get to me that I couldn't figure out who was who.

[40:08] Traci Thomas: It's okay. And it's also the one I think gets done the most dirty by the movie, um, this and at the ballet. Um, like just the very quiet, like, I hope I get it. How many people? It's just I don't the mixing sounds really bad in the movie. And it might just be because I'm used to the album just because of my ears, or whatnot, it just feels wrong.

[40:28] Andrew DeWolf: Right, because they like kind of try to do like the internal, like they're thinking that they're not singing it, so it's like sort of breathy. You know, the coward's musical.

[40:28] Traci Thomas: Yes.

[40:39] Andrew DeWolf: They did the same trick in Dune, the original David Lynch one, and that worked wonders in that right here.

[40:44] Traci Thomas: I don't know what that means.

[40:47] Andrew DeWolf: It was very, very badly, like it was like they didn't know what to do with like all the thoughts of people, so he's like, Oh, we'll just do a close-up on their face and like hear what their inner monologue is. People hated it.

[40:47] Traci Thomas: People hated it.

[40:58] Andrew DeWolf: I think it works okay in a chorus line, but it's still just the mixing. The just the way it visu vocally sounds to my ears, it just sounds off.

[41:06] Traci Thomas: Um let's talk about I can do that. Andrew's song, or Mike's song, really.

[41:10] Andrew DeWolf: I'm watching Sisco Pit a Pat.

[41:14] Traci Thomas: Sid, I could do that. I could do that. New every step right off the bat. Sid, I could do that. I could do that.

[41:27] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, I kept calling him. I like this one a lot. Sorry.

[41:27] Traci Thomas: Mike.

[41:30] Andrew DeWolf: Mike. There's a different mark.

[41:31] Traci Thomas: Mark is the Marcus Gonneria.

[41:33] Andrew DeWolf: The gonerria guy.

[41:34] Traci Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, Marcus Gonerria guy. Wet dream man. That's also the mark from Rent's origin story. Um, but Mike's song, I can do that. I like the song a lot. I love the like energy to it. Like, it's just like you can you can just feel how uh happy he is to just be dancing, you know. That's all you got.

[41:57] Andrew DeWolf: I like I don't know what else do you want me to say. Um what do you think about it in the movie? Because that was I think the first version I ever saw of this specific song. And I'm like, oh, they're they're really going ham here. He's swinging around on a on a rope and everything. I thought that was a little bit silly, but it doesn't seem out of character, and I'm like willing to accept it.

[42:18] Traci Thomas: I I like this song a lot. It's a very strange second number, especially to my brain who's like, all right, second number for I want song for main character. I'm going into this, and then oh oh uh uh okay. I guess that's it. Without realizing I I hope I get it with the opening number and the I want song for everybody. It just I thought the I Want song was the third song in a musical.

[42:40] Andrew DeWolf: It's usually the second or third. Um the second song is usually some weird little like nothing song. You know, like in Wicked, it's that like weird little thing about the animals before we get to the wizard and I, which is three, and Hamilton, it's like the weird little, you know, oh I don't know if it's a cursor.

[42:59] Traci Thomas: I I agree. I usually in the olden days that was like book scenes, but now since everything's mostly sung through.

[43:06] Andrew DeWolf: Right, because like in even in Sound of Music, whatchamacall uh it the I have confidence is the third song.

[43:12] Traci Thomas: Well that's that's the stupid thing about sound of music. I have confidence wasn't written until the movie was put in in the original version. My favorite things was the second song because the musical is worse.

[43:12] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[43:25] Traci Thomas: The movie is fantastic. I actually don't know that I've ever seen the musical.

[43:29] Andrew DeWolf: That's not true. I have, but I've blocked it out, obviously.

[43:33] Traci Thomas: Yeah. I mean, I don't think that's a hot take. I think most people agree, like I have confidence is needed for the storytelling, and my favorite things belongs where it should belong, not with her and the the nun, the mother Abnes. Why why why would you do this?

[43:33] Andrew DeWolf: Everyone needs revision.

[43:48] Traci Thomas: I agree. Um, so I could do that. Great song, great number. Shows off dancing of one specific dancer who knocks it out the park. A little bit too show off y though.

[43:57] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. Well, that's before Zack tells them, stop performing in the movie. You know, he's like, I like it's before he has the moment with Sheila where he's like, Can't you just be fucking normal, bitch? And she's like, It's a lot, Zach. Can you not scream at me in front of these strangers? Thanks so much. Let me take my hair down. Thanks, Zach.

[44:14] Traci Thomas: Yeah, thanks, Zach. Let's talk about At the Ballet then, which is so good. Easily my favorite song in the show. Probably, yeah, easily the best song in the show, in my opinion. It's incredible. It's an incredible song. This trio. Um, I think no matter who's singing it, I just will I will 100% listening to it beginning to end, no matter what cast. I'll just be like, Yep, I'm I'm on, I'm in for all three parts of this. Let's go.

[44:54] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. And it always works.

[44:56] Traci Thomas: Yeah. As long as you have a good Maggie. If your Maggie can't do it, then your your life is over. But I mean, if Maggie can do it. Andrew, can you describe each of these three ladies' stories for us? Because I think they're they're pretty wacky.

[45:10] Andrew DeWolf: Oh boy, you're you're I after everything I've said about how I can't keep track of people. You're like, All right, hey, can you describe three of the characters, please?

[45:18] Traci Thomas: Sheila is the first one. What is the story she told? I know you've watched the show at least three times, so you have to at least remember the story.

[45:24] Andrew DeWolf: I have. Um, I believe Sheila is um she had like a difficult household or something, and she used the ballet to get away from it. Like her father was abusive, I believe. I mean, he thought that he was cheating. He thought that he married beneath him. That's what he said.

[45:37] Traci Thomas: That's what he said. Okay, okay. Which I mean, that probably made him abusive, but yeah.

[45:43] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, and the second one, I I forget the it's not. Is it BB?

[45:47] Traci Thomas: It's BB.

[45:48] Andrew DeWolf: Okay. The second one is BB. Um, and what is hers?

[45:52] Traci Thomas: Oh lord. Um, she does she even have like a big thing? Doesn't she just like to dance?

[45:59] Andrew DeWolf: No, she wanted to be beautiful.

[46:01] Traci Thomas: Yeah. Mother always said I'd be very attractive when I grew up when I grew up. Different, she said, with a special something and a very, very personal flair. And you know what? She hated her mom because her mom was a real asshole. So she went to ballet class for that.

[46:15] Andrew DeWolf: Yep. Because everyone is beautiful at the ballet. Just FYI.

[46:19] Traci Thomas: Yes. Yes. Yes. If you dance, you're beautiful all of a sudden. Have you ever heard Daisy Ridley's cover of this for like the Streisand album?

[46:19] Andrew DeWolf: No.

[46:27] Traci Thomas: Okay, because you start with Barbara Streisand, who's great. Sheila, does fine. Then we go to Daisy Ridley, who is f okay. Then we have Anne Hathaway as Maggie, who knocks it out. She knows how to do it. She could hit that last note while. But you know, then you got poor Daisy Ridley in the middle, like just not not doing, not bringing what the other two are.

[46:27] Andrew DeWolf: Weak middle section.

[46:49] Traci Thomas: A little bit, a little bit. The weak link, and then the song just breaks. Um, so Maggie, what is hers? Because I feel like hers is the most interesting, and the I think the only one that's like verbatim from the original Michael Bennett recordings, because it's too weird for it not to be.

[47:03] Andrew DeWolf: Oh Lord. Um, wasn't that just like another? He was an Indian chief, and she asked Maggie, do you want to dance? That was her dad in the dream. You guys come on, hello.

[47:16] Traci Thomas: Yeah, it was Maggie. Wasn't it another broken home situation? The dad, the mommy was gonna save the marriage, and then the dad said, I thought this would help, but I guess it won't. And then he basically left them. And then she had a fantasy life with her father, who was an Indian chief, and she used to hold her arms up like this. She would say, Maggie, do you want to dance? And I would say, Daddy, I would love to. Do do do do.

[47:42] Andrew DeWolf: I definitely remember all of that.

[47:44] Traci Thomas: Yeah. But yeah, I was trying to remember what's what actually happened. Don't let just bully you like that, okay? You like it?

[47:49] Andrew DeWolf: I just feel like I had it.

[47:50] Traci Thomas: You did. She and Sheila and Maggie are like kind of the same sort of general story, but Maggie has the dream sequence to it. Basically, Sheila is if if Maggie's dad had stuck around. Abusive, cheats on the wife, is an asshole. Yeah, and then Maggie is the dad just left because you know, fathers are just terrible.

[48:09] Andrew DeWolf: They're just not. Oh, mothers are terrible too. BB hates her mom.

[48:11] Traci Thomas: Yeah, BB's mom was like, That's true. Parents just suck. And that's how you get a ballerina. Because you go to ballet class to get away from you go to the most rigid form of dance to get away from horrible parents. You go the whole song is just about how parents are awful.

[48:11] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[48:26] Traci Thomas: The whole show is about how parents are awful, actually. But then you have new father figure in Zach who's like, I'm your new daddy. I'm gonna emotionally abuse you for two hours now.

[48:36] Andrew DeWolf: Wait, I want this reading. How is the whole show about parents awful?

[48:39] Traci Thomas: Well, I just I feel like a lot of the people talk about how they like ran away from home because their parents were mean, or they went and joined they were gay and their family didn't accept them, so they went and joined a like nightclub performance, or they went and got plastic surgery because they were from a shitty place and had a shitty family, or their mom told them they were ugly. Or the weirdest one, which I'm sure we're gonna get to, is Christine and Al, the married couple, and in the movie, he's like 35 and she's 18, and I I have a lot of questions there.

[48:39] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[49:12] Traci Thomas: He's like That was weird. Yeah, when he like introduced himself and he's like, Al, how you been? He's like, Hey, Zach, I'm good. This is my wife, Christine. She's 13 years old. I'm 96. We fucked. It's like Jesus.

[49:24] Andrew DeWolf: I like uh I like Zach's response to it. He just says, Congratulations.

[49:28] Traci Thomas: Congratulations, Al. It's a very weird scene in the movie, and I don't think that's in the show.

[49:36] Andrew DeWolf: I don't remember that.

[49:36] Traci Thomas: It might have gotten cut out of my high school production.

[49:38] Andrew DeWolf: No, it's not. It's defin I watched two versions of the show. It's not in there.

[49:42] Traci Thomas: Because they cut that song from the movie. I really couldn't sing.

[49:45] Andrew DeWolf: See, I couldn't sing, and I did sing.

[49:47] Traci Thomas: Yeah, which I I like better than the one that they put in the movie. What's the one they didn't do a singing?

[49:52] Andrew DeWolf: No, no, no. No, they didn't do a singing. There's so many former songs from um a chorus line that they all tend to get blurred together. Like there was one called Shoes, and Ariana DeBose does an incredible cover of that that just didn't make it into the original version.

[50:05] Andrew DeWolf: So, oh and just find a bunch of cut songs from A Chorus Line, you can make your own damn musical out of them.

[50:12] Traci Thomas: Great.

[50:12] Andrew DeWolf: Let me try.

[50:13] Traci Thomas: I recommend it.

[50:14] Andrew DeWolf: I recommend it.

[50:16] Traci Thomas: I got the right audience for that.

[50:18] Andrew DeWolf: Hell yeah.

[50:19] Traci Thomas: Um, all right. Do we want to talk about "Sing" with Christine Al and company?

[50:24] Andrew DeWolf: I feel like we just did.

[50:25] Traci Thomas: Yeah, you're right.

[50:26] Andrew DeWolf: You're right, you're right, you're right.

[50:27] Traci Thomas: Um that's a skippable song for me.

[50:30] Andrew DeWolf: It's pretty annoying.

[50:31] Traci Thomas: Ooh, I mean I don't like those characters.

[50:33] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, it's a those two. I remember those two because of the creepy thing in the movie.

[50:38] Traci Thomas: Yeah.

[50:39] Andrew DeWolf: Um, and I was like, geez, I don't like this guy. I mean, in theory, it's an interesting idea where you have a couple and then maybe one of them doesn't make it, and then how that destroys a marriage and whatever. That is an interesting thing to go into.

[50:49] Traci Thomas: They don't really do it.

[50:51] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[50:52] Traci Thomas: They don't really go into anything after people get cut. They're just like, Yeah, those guys are cut. Show's over. Bye.

[50:57] Andrew DeWolf: So I gotta actually run this by Tracy really quick. Um, so did you know in the original version of the show? Um, they Cassie got cut.

[51:06] Traci Thomas: I didn't know.

[51:07] Andrew DeWolf: Like, and audiences did not cheer. They left angry, and then um the director was like, die angry, whatever.

[51:16] Traci Thomas: Well, no, because Marvin Hamlisch went up to him. He's like, Come on, you gotta give the audience what he wants. And he's like, but I would have cut Cassie. He's like, Sometimes you gotta do things you wouldn't do.

[51:24] Andrew DeWolf: And he's like, fine. And then they got standing ovations every night after that.

[51:29] Traci Thomas: I gotta be honest. Cassie should be cut.

[51:33] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[51:33] Traci Thomas: She sh I mean, she's old, she's washed, she's done. She's gonna be in the chorus now. Sorry, Cassie. You should have capitalized, or you should have stayed in New York instead of coming to LA, trying to be cute, and up being a fucking dancing band-aid. That's what you get. Bye.

[51:46] Andrew DeWolf: She didn't even go through the audition process in the movie. She just kind of shows up.

[51:50] Traci Thomas: Yeah.

[51:51] Andrew DeWolf: Like when it's already mostly over. That's also a thing I don't particularly love about the movie. I get why they did it storytelling wise. I just I don't know why I don't like it. But I feel like that's real life. I feel like a nepotism. You know, it's like, oh, here's someone I know. It's fine. I know you can do it. I know you can do it. I he already knows all of her trauma because he inflicted it on her, you know, so it's fine. She doesn't need to hear it.

[52:10] Traci Thomas: Yeah.

[52:13] Andrew DeWolf: Speaking of inflicting trauma, um, let's talk about Val's song.

[52:18] Traci Thomas: Uh, "Dance 10 Looks 3."

[52:20] Andrew DeWolf: "Dance Ten Looks Three."

[52:22] Traci Thomas: It's like to die. Left the theater and called the doctor for my appointment to buy.

[52:28] Andrew DeWolf: Tit and ass.

[52:35] Traci Thomas: Alright. It's all you.

[52:37] Andrew DeWolf: Well, let's hear it.

[52:38] Traci Thomas: Yeah, just go for it.

[52:40] Andrew DeWolf: Just kidding. I don't I don't remember the whole thing.

[52:41] Traci Thomas: No, just sing the song.

[52:42] Andrew DeWolf: Just no, no, no, no. Tits and ass. Come on.

[52:44] Traci Thomas: Um, so it's about Val, the best character in the show. She is a mediocre looking gal who can dance the shit out of anything. Best dancer in the whole show. And she realized back in her old day when she first came to New York, she got off the train in her little white shoes, their little white dress. She looked like a fucking nun. And she realized what they were looking for. They were after sexy hot mamas. So she got a boob and a butt job. And then she started booking things. She could be a debutante, a chorus girl, or a wife. And that's her. And it's the best number in the show because it is funny and it is great. And she's the best.

[53:25] Andrew DeWolf: However, in the movie, she is played by a sexy hot woman in a pink peach colored two-piece.

[53:32] Traci Thomas: And in the show, they didn't want her to be super duper sexy. So she wears a sneaker and a sock, like a like a you know, 80s style, like bunchy up sneaker tennis shoe look, and a purple like leotard, and a it's like, so you spent all this money on plastic surgery so people would think you were hot, and now you're dressed like a kindergartner? Like it doesn't make sense.

[53:52] Andrew DeWolf: But the movie makes a lot of sense. It's like, yeah, she's basically nude. She's wearing a heel, she's giving you a hair updo, she's giving you a look, she's giving you sex appeal.

[54:04] Traci Thomas: In the show, she is giving you confusion. Thank you. I don't believe in objectifying women. That's it. Um, I do want to bring up a story about the production of A Chorus Line here. Um, and why the title is what it is. Um, so they went on and the song didn't get laughs, and they're like, why isn't this song getting laughs? It's a funny song. It's a really funny song. Come on. And eventually they had to go to the performance. Marvin Hamlisch himself. It's like, Alright, we gotta sit down in the audience, see what they see. And then they opened the playbill, and like, oh, we just give the title away right here. So they changed the title, and then it got laughs all of a sudden. Because it used to be "Tits and Ass," and now it's "Dance Ten Looks Three." That's the name of the song. They use that all the time in theater now. Like, what is this feeling? Um, they couldn't just call it loathing, so they call it what is this feeling.

[54:50] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[54:50] Traci Thomas: Well, I went to Catholic high school and they almost tried to make us change the words. And other Catholic high schools who had done the show, they did this and that, which I guess is a common high school reproduction of the inappropriate language.

[55:07] Andrew DeWolf: So inappropriate.

[55:07] Traci Thomas: Oh my god. Um they're objects at a body, like, come on. Like they're anatomical. Come on. I don't know if you're not. Come on, Catholics are the anatomy. I don't know if that's like what you find in Greys in the world. If you go to the if you go to the doctor, that's what they're gonna say.

[55:22] Andrew DeWolf: Well, if your doctor says that to you, you need to get a new doctor and you need to get a lawyer.

[55:27] Traci Thomas: Thank you. That's every doctor in the Bronx, and it's like, oh, you got a lump right here on your tits, and goes all the way down your ass. Allegedly, allegedly. That's a big lump. Are you sure that oh I got the I got it upside down? It's on your taint.

[55:44] Andrew DeWolf: Oh my gosh.

[55:44] Traci Thomas: That's we've really doubled shark here people. That's it. The sharks are pulling it, Jessica said.

[55:50] Andrew DeWolf: Jess, I'm the one drinking, remember?

[55:52] Traci Thomas: I yeah, I am I am bone sober. It's a sad thing. Um, let's talk about "The Music and the Mirror."

[56:00] Andrew DeWolf: Give me a chance to come through. All I ever needed was the music and the mirror and the chance to chance for you.

[56:13] Traci Thomas: I don't know if I love this song, but I do love how it's staged.

[56:17] Andrew DeWolf: I was literally just gonna say that. I was like, I like how this song looks like a lot.

[56:23] Traci Thomas: Yeah.

[56:24] Andrew DeWolf: I skip it on the album, but if I watch I do, I do. I don't think it's like a bad song. It's not a bad song. It's just like, oh, I don't need to hear that. It's all dancing. Let's go.

[56:34] Traci Thomas: Well, so here's the thing. You have to watch it. The dancing is great. The song is better in the movie. I firmly believe "Let Me Dance for You, Let Me Try" is a better song than "The Music in the Mirror." However, I like the staging on Broadway. And for those of you who are not dancers who maybe don't know this information, Jess, you probably know this. But the reason that the number is the way that it is, where it's all it's like singing, singing, singing, small dance break, singing, huge dance number, is because nobody could do it and then come back and sing at the end. So it had to end on the dancing because it was such hard dancing that it was like impossible to do the whole thing like you would a normal dance number because it's a solo.

Like there's no ensemble, there's no backup singing, there's no help for her at all. So it's like she sings, she sings, she sings, does a few pas de bourrées, comes back, hits the note, and then it's like let's boogie people. And it's incredible. Like the dancing is unmatched. Like, I can't think of another like solo dance number that really gets me pumped the way to just watching this happen. So even in the movie, it works. It works really well in the film. Um, yeah, this is like on stage, this is a 10 out of 10. Um, as a song, it's okay.

[58:02] Andrew DeWolf: Have you ever watched um the documentary "Every Little Step"?

[58:06] Traci Thomas: Of course. I saw it in the theater.

[58:08] Andrew DeWolf: Thank you.

[58:10] Traci Thomas: But okay, did you watch the revival of what's her name? Charlotte D'Amboise?

[58:10] Traci Thomas: Ooh.

[58:10] Andrew DeWolf: It had what's his face, that horrible choreographer that I cannot stand.

[58:14] Traci Thomas: Tys Diorio.

[58:16] Andrew DeWolf: D'Amboise, yeah. Um, we watched the part, and I did not find her to be very good in the dancing.

[58:16] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[58:17] Traci Thomas: He was featured. He got turned down.

[58:19] Andrew DeWolf: He got turned down, which is why he got featured heavily.

[58:22] Traci Thomas: Ooh.

[58:22] Traci Thomas: Yeah, he got turned down from Mike, and I was I was thrilled. Sorry, Tys. I'm not sorry.

[58:27] Andrew DeWolf: Fuck. What if he's one of your new patrons and we just cursed him out?

[58:31] Traci Thomas: I don't give a shit. We've cursed out patrons before.

[58:34] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, we do it all the time.

[58:35] Traci Thomas: Yeah, then we basically cyberbully them. It's great. We're we're the Zach to their Cassie.

[58:40] Andrew DeWolf: Got it. Got it. Got it.

[58:41] Traci Thomas: Okay, fuck you, Tys.

[58:43] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, carry on.

[58:44] Traci Thomas: Anyways, I did see the movie. What were you gonna say about it?

[58:47] Andrew DeWolf: Out of the choices they had in the final like three, I still think they met with the right choice there.

[58:53] Traci Thomas: I don't know. I just so okay, as a dancer, I feel like that number is always lackluster to me because I feel like the choreography gets so weird and there's so many turns, and it's just shorts to start of it's just starts to sort of be like, okay.

[59:10] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know. I love it in the movie. I think they do a really good job in the movie, but I feel like by the end, by the like dot that you know, and then it goes into like dun dun dun like really singing the whole thing. And then it's like when she go after she goes to like LA and they have like the da da da da da da music. Because you know it's like it's doing what she did, right? It's like each part of the song is like her relationship. Anyway, after the LA boogie down part, it starts to fall apart for me.

[59:38] Traci Thomas: That's all that's fair. I I don't I don't disagree with you at all. I think that's a fair assessment. I am not a dancer, so when I watch people that are doing anything moderately impressive, I'm like, oh good on you, go go for it.

[59:50] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, it's like they're oh, they're standing up. Oh my god. Oh my god, they're not winded from just moving their leg a little bit. Good for them.

[59:57] Traci Thomas: Yeah.

[1:00:00] Andrew DeWolf: Like the little dance you did when we started this where you're like going all. I was like, man, she's good.

[1:00:04] Traci Thomas: He's impressed.

[1:00:06] Andrew DeWolf: He was actually impressed by that.

[1:00:08] Traci Thomas: As he should have been, honestly.

[1:00:09] Andrew DeWolf: I really Andrew, what the fuck you're trying to say?

[1:00:12] Traci Thomas: Yeah, please don't dispensate.

[1:00:14] Andrew DeWolf: I wasn't saying anything. I was just saying he was actually impressed.

[1:00:16] Traci Thomas: Thank you.

[1:00:17] Andrew DeWolf: Thank you.

[1:00:19] Traci Thomas: Alright. "What I Did for Love."

[1:00:22] Andrew DeWolf: Can regret what I did for what I did for I don't love the song.

[1:00:38] Traci Thomas: I love what it says.

[1:00:40] Andrew DeWolf: You skipped nothing.

[1:00:41] Traci Thomas: You skipped nothing.

[1:00:42] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, you're right.

[1:00:43] Traci Thomas: You're right, you're right.

[1:00:44] Andrew DeWolf: I feel like that's an iconic song.

[1:00:45] Traci Thomas: I mean, we skip that because that comes even before Val, but Yeah, we did. It's an iconic song.

[1:00:49] Andrew DeWolf: That's all I want to do.

[1:00:50] Traci Thomas: It is very in it. It's iconic. It's good too. Like, it's part of that montage sequence.

[1:00:56] Andrew DeWolf: Um, same with like it starts with "Hello 12, Hello 13, Hello Love," all that stuff.

[1:01:00] Traci Thomas: Yeah, but I think it's is it the last one?

[1:01:02] Andrew DeWolf: I feel like it's like No, it's the second one.

[1:01:04] Traci Thomas: Oh.

[1:01:05] Andrew DeWolf: In the show?

[1:01:06] Traci Thomas: Yeah.

[1:01:07] Andrew DeWolf: It's different in the movie.

[1:01:09] Traci Thomas: I haven't seen the show in a while. I've got to be honest. Last time I saw the show was in uh the revival.

[1:01:14] Andrew DeWolf: 2007-ish?

[1:01:15] Traci Thomas: Yeah, yeah.

[1:01:16] Andrew DeWolf: So it's been a while.

[1:01:17] Traci Thomas: That wasn't that long ago.

[1:01:18] Andrew DeWolf: Okay.

[1:01:20] Traci Thomas: Define not that long.

[1:01:21] Andrew DeWolf: How old are you?

[1:01:22] Traci Thomas: Like it's like half my life ago.

[1:01:25] Andrew DeWolf: Um anyways. But no, that makes sense. And the song, I man, uh the the song's do tend to blend together at a certain point, even so much that when you put the montage together, I I they start to overlap, and I'm starting to think of like, well, which one was that one again?

[1:01:37] Traci Thomas: Um, what happens to that song, Tracy?

[1:01:40] Andrew DeWolf: She goes to acting school, and her teacher is mean to her and tells her that she's nothing, and she keeps saying nothing, but then she goes and she like figures out that she's a star, and then she finds out Mr. Carp had died. She dug right down to the bottom of her soul and she cried because she felt nothing. Wahla.

[1:01:58] Traci Thomas: Um but it's a good song. And and Morales can sing well. It's a good singing part.

[1:02:02] Andrew DeWolf: Can you be an ice cream cone for us?

[1:02:04] Traci Thomas: Yes.

[1:02:05] Andrew DeWolf: Like an ice cream cone.

[1:02:06] Traci Thomas: Oh my god, that's a beautiful ice cream cone.

[1:02:08] Andrew DeWolf: I was a dancer. I think I mentioned that.

[1:02:11] Traci Thomas: Yes, yes, you do.

[1:02:13] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, yeah. And she, you know, I feel the cold, I feel the air.

[1:02:16] Traci Thomas: Anyways.

[1:02:16] Andrew DeWolf: So yeah, I just like that song. I just want to give a little shout-out to that song. It's a classic. I feel like most people who know the show know that song.

[1:02:22] Traci Thomas: Oh, yeah. That song.

[1:02:23] Andrew DeWolf: What I Did for Love, her other song.

[1:02:24] Traci Thomas: Go ahead. Talk shit if you What I Did for Love sucks.

[1:02:27] Andrew DeWolf: Okay.

[1:02:27] Traci Thomas: It slows down the energy, and I don't like it, but everyone else loves it. Do you like it?

[1:02:32] Andrew DeWolf: Um, I feel like it is the it's like the conclusion of the story, you know.

[1:02:37] Jess McEnally: If you need it there, I think it's fine.

[1:02:40] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know.

[1:02:41] Jess McEnally: Jess is just a big negative Nelly on this one.

[1:02:45] Andrew DeWolf: I'm not sure why. Just on this song. Not even on the show, just on this song.

[1:02:49] Traci Thomas: I know, but this is like the end of the show. This is like what the show is about.

[1:02:54] Jess McEnally: Yeah.

[1:02:54] Traci Thomas: I will say it might just be because the song was tainted for me by every sitcom in the world singing it like in the 90s because they had to do it, and I'm just like, I'm sick of fucking Bob Saget singing this with Lori Loughlin.

[1:03:07] Andrew DeWolf: I'm sick of like all these 80s shows doing it.

[1:03:09] Traci Thomas: Gone too soon and also a criminal.

[1:03:12] Jess McEnally: That was a really strong choice. Bob Saget and Lori Loughlin.

[1:03:16] Traci Thomas: They sang it. And you know what? Both of their lives were cut short.

[1:03:19] Jess McEnally: And that's what the song is about.

[1:03:21] Traci Thomas: She's still alive.

[1:03:22] Jess McEnally: But she's cut her career short.

[1:03:25] Traci Thomas: Um, more Hallmark movies.

[1:03:27] Jess McEnally: Yeah, it's about what you do for the love of the art.

[1:03:30] Traci Thomas: It's such a great, I just I think it's such a great song. I love it. I love it.

[1:03:34] Jess McEnally: But the meaning is kind of tainted in the movie because they make it all about Cassie and her love for Zach.

[1:03:39] Traci Thomas: No, it's after Paul gets hurt and Sheila goes to get Viking.

[1:03:43] Jess McEnally: She's got many.

[1:03:45] Traci Thomas: Which was great.

[1:03:46] Jess McEnally: I don't know. I just love the song. I think it's I think it, I mean, as someone who hates all the sad stuff, I think it sort of works.

[1:03:52] Traci Thomas: I also think maybe because I'm an old person now and I'm washed, and so I feel like I can really relate to being old and washed now, you know, and it's like, gosh, back in my youth when I could do a fan kick and you know, sing in my theater with my friends auditioning for shows.

[1:04:09] Jess McEnally: We just have so much fun.

[1:04:12] Traci Thomas: I just love it.

[1:04:13] Jess McEnally: You're not, you're young. Come on. What are you like 23?

[1:04:18] Traci Thomas: Yes, I'm 23.

[1:04:19] Jess McEnally: Yeah, you look at it.

[1:04:20] Traci Thomas: I bought it.

[1:04:21] Jess McEnally: Thank you.

[1:04:22] Traci Thomas: Um, let's talk about one.

[1:04:24] Jess McEnally: Oh my god, and you're gonna forget the rest.

[1:04:38] Traci Thomas: This song's great. The ending's great. It gives me chills. It's so beautiful to see how all these people that were such individuals like throughout the entire show suddenly become like a united unit.

[1:04:48] Jess McEnally: It's beautiful.

[1:04:49] Traci Thomas: I agree. When they do the part where they turn and they all put their hat on their head and look at the audience and say, one, holy shit.

[1:04:57] Jess McEnally: I get chills listening to it on a recording.

[1:05:01] Traci Thomas: It is so brilliant. It is so beautiful.

[1:05:05] Jess McEnally: It is and it's exactly the thing. It's like this whole time we thought they were all like leads, and then you realize, oh right, they were just auditioning for the fucking chorus.

[1:05:13] Traci Thomas: All of this to be able to sing this one number in a show. It's just an incredible moment.

[1:05:18] Jess McEnally: Yeah. What do you think, Andrew?

[1:05:19] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, there's way more than eight people on that stage.

[1:05:24] Traci Thomas: God damn it.

[1:05:27] Andrew DeWolf: I feel like he didn't, I feel like he needed more than eight people.

[1:05:30] Traci Thomas: Um, it's good.

[1:05:33] Andrew DeWolf: I like the costumes they wear a lot.

[1:05:37] Traci Thomas: I don't know.

[1:05:38] Andrew DeWolf: I feel like the actual ending is what I did for love, and this is just like a the uh closing like everyone go take a bow.

[1:05:46] Jess McEnally: Yeah.

[1:05:46] Traci Thomas: I think this is the signifier of what the show's really about is like it's for the chorus and just how much it even means to be an ensemble member.

[1:05:54] Andrew DeWolf: And that is part of the reason why I think so many people kept seeing this show for 30 years. Like, why this was like the biggest Broadway show you had to go see.

[1:06:01] Traci Thomas: Also because, like, for tourists, they're being introduced to characters of the plot doesn't matter as much as like the spectacle at a certain point.

[1:06:07] Andrew DeWolf: Um, it's very, very good. Like this entire last number just makes you want to see more.

[1:06:13] Traci Thomas: I can imagine like 10 like curtain calls for this and just wanting more and more and more of it.

[1:06:18] Jess McEnally: Yeah, yeah.

[1:06:19] Traci Thomas: And I hate kick lines usually.

[1:06:21] Andrew DeWolf: What?

[1:06:22] Traci Thomas: I'm not a kickline fan.

[1:06:23] Andrew DeWolf: What kind of dancing like?

[1:06:25] Jess McEnally: Oh, see, this is he doesn't like dancing.

[1:06:27] Andrew DeWolf: No, no, no. I don't like dance breaks.

[1:06:29] Traci Thomas: I love dancing if it's integrated. I just don't like a big long 45-minute dance break.

[1:06:34] Jess McEnally: He doesn't like dancing breaks.

[1:06:35] Andrew DeWolf: I don't like dancing.

[1:06:36] Traci Thomas: I guess not.

[1:06:37] Andrew DeWolf: He will say, he will say he likes it, but then anytime you bring up that the dancing was good, he was like, I felt like it was a little out of place.

[1:06:43] Traci Thomas: I mean, the like they should have been standing there.

[1:06:46] Andrew DeWolf: No, no, no. Doing nothing.

[1:06:48] Traci Thomas: The one that comes to my head is like Newsies where I'm like, uh this is a little extreme, extreme.

[1:06:53] Andrew DeWolf: Like, this is a little much, isn't it?

[1:06:55] Traci Thomas: I like dancing.

[1:06:56] Andrew DeWolf: No, it's never enough.

[1:06:57] Traci Thomas: It's never enough.

[1:06:58] Andrew DeWolf: There's always more dancing.

[1:07:00] Traci Thomas: I respect it so much as a form. I really, really do.

[1:07:02] Andrew DeWolf: I think it is a really, really beautiful thing.

[1:07:04] Traci Thomas: And when it's done right, it really blows you to the back of the theater.

[1:07:07] Andrew DeWolf: But if we're doing 10 hours of kick lines in Hello Dolly, I'm gonna be checking my watch maybe once or twice.

[1:07:13] Jess McEnally: But why?

[1:07:14] Traci Thomas: My gosh, if the kick lines in Hello Dolly are a dream.

[1:07:17] Andrew DeWolf: My god, those waiters? Are you kidding me?

[1:07:20] Traci Thomas: They're not paid enough.

[1:07:22] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I agree they're not paid enough, but sure.

[1:07:25] Traci Thomas: Anyways, I love a kickline.

[1:07:27] Andrew DeWolf: Anyone who loves a kickline and wants to celebrate kicklines, please be a patron of my new podcast.

[1:07:32] Traci Thomas: Kicklines.

[1:07:33] Andrew DeWolf: Thank you.

[1:07:34] Traci Thomas: No, no, no.

[1:07:36] Andrew DeWolf: Kick lines.

[1:07:38] Traci Thomas: You start and I start a podcast where you try to convince me the kick lines are awesome.

[1:07:42] Andrew DeWolf: I don't have to.

[1:07:43] Traci Thomas: Kick lines are awesome, and they deserve to be loved by people who want to love them, okay?

[1:07:48] Andrew DeWolf: We'll not take that.

[1:07:49] Traci Thomas: I'm not anti-kick line, I just don't like them much.

[1:07:52] Andrew DeWolf: Um, it sounded like you were kind of anti-kick lines.

[1:07:56] Traci Thomas: It was like a very anti-kickline sentiment.

[1:07:59] Andrew DeWolf: We've all been talking about it, and Bree specifically has really been telling me how much it hurts her and she's worried for you.

[1:08:07] Traci Thomas: Yeah.

[1:08:07] Andrew DeWolf: I see that.

[1:08:08] Traci Thomas: It's in her face.

[1:08:10] Jess McEnally: You know what? No one also has a problem. Not kick lines.

[1:08:15] Traci Thomas: Um, how about we all give our overall thoughts on A Chorus Line and our cheese ratings?

[1:08:19] Andrew DeWolf: Um, Andrew, why don't you go first?

[1:08:21] Andrew DeWolf: Sure. Um, there's a lot of characters in this one, but there's some very good music.

[1:08:26] Traci Thomas: Um, if you don't care about the story, I guess, this will be a good watch.

[1:08:32] Andrew DeWolf: Because there isn't a story. It's great.

[1:08:35] Traci Thomas: I do like a lot of the music like a lot.

[1:08:37] Andrew DeWolf: Like there's like at least three or four like really good songs, and there is some solid dancing, which is always a plus.

[1:08:45] Traci Thomas: Um, I kinda wish there was more of a plot, but the movie kind of fixes that, so I guess that's okay.

[1:08:53] Andrew DeWolf: The movie makes a lot of other stuff worse, but um, uh I'm gonna give it a uh a cheese platter with a lot of different cheeses, and you can't really pick any of them out because they're all equally there.

[1:09:08] Traci Thomas: They're equally there.

[1:09:09] Jess McEnally: Um, all right, Traci, how about you? What is your overall thoughts on your cheese rating?

[1:09:11] Traci Thomas: Okay, I love a cheese platter, especially when there's many cheeses, and I feel like your rating reminded me how much I love this show.

[1:09:20] Traci Thomas: Um, it is a perfect musical in every way. Uh, there's nothing wrong with it at all, and anyone who says otherwise is uh anti-American.

[1:09:30] Andrew DeWolf: Um, also should be penalized in life.

[1:09:36] Traci Thomas: Um, this show has everything you could want. No plot, great dancing, fun songs, mirrors.

[1:09:44] Jess McEnally: Hello.

[1:09:45] Traci Thomas: When the mirrors turn and show everyone at the in the closing number, my god, gold, lame, hats, a Laduca.

[1:09:53] Jess McEnally: My god, they have everything you could need.

[1:09:55] Traci Thomas: I don't know. Is it high cheese rating good or is a low cheese rating good?

[1:10:00] Andrew DeWolf: Um, there's no such thing.

[1:10:02] Traci Thomas: Okay, no such thing.

[1:10:03] Andrew DeWolf: You just buggy adjustments.

[1:10:04] Traci Thomas: You pick a cheese.

[1:10:06] Traci Thomas: Because cheddar cheese goes great with everything. You can have it on mac and cheese.

[1:10:10] Traci Thomas: You could have it with apple slices. You could give it to a child, you could give it to an adult.

[1:10:14] Andrew DeWolf: Have you ever had a grilled cheese?

[1:10:15] Traci Thomas: Try it without cheddar. It'd be a nightmare.

[1:10:16] Andrew DeWolf: But with cheddar, it's a dream.

[1:10:18] Traci Thomas: Cheddar is the good old fashioned American cheese for all people, just like A Chorus Line.

[1:10:24] Andrew DeWolf: Thank you.

[1:10:24] Traci Thomas: Hi chat hi cheddar.

[1:10:26] Andrew DeWolf: Sharp.

[1:10:27] Traci Thomas: Thank you.

[1:10:29] Brianna Jones: All right, Brian, what'd you think of our discussion and your cheese rating of that?

[1:10:32] Brianna Jones: Uh, this was a treat. It was very fun.

[1:10:34] Brianna Jones: Uh, Traci, you're a fantastic guest.

[1:10:37] Traci Thomas: Thank you.

[1:10:37] Brianna Jones: Um, I want to go watch A Chorus Line now. So I'm gonna go do that.

[1:10:40] Jess McEnally: Um, we did it, guys.

[1:10:44] Brianna Jones: We did it.

[1:10:45] Jess McEnally: Yay!

[1:10:46] Brianna Jones: Convinced I'm gonna be able to do that.

[1:10:47] Jess McEnally: Mission accomplished.

[1:10:49] Brianna Jones: Um, so I'm gonna give this um a mascarpone.

[1:10:53] Brianna Jones: Uh, just because I think mascarpone's a little treat. You know, a little sweet little treat.

[1:10:57] Traci Thomas: Love this for us.

[1:10:58] Brianna Jones: Um, on that note, um, I like A Chorus Line.

[1:11:01] Brianna Jones: It's pretty good.

[1:11:02] Jess McEnally: I am gonna give it this show is whack.

[1:11:05] Brianna Jones: I'm gonna give it Bennett Valley cheese curl curds because it was developed by Michael Bennett.

[1:11:09] Brianna Jones: And you know what? That's pretty good.

[1:11:10] Traci Thomas: It they look pretty good. I'm not gonna lie.

[1:11:12] Brianna Jones: I wanna want to try all these little people and their little spandex cheese curds.

[1:11:17] Traci Thomas: Um, but on that note, Traci, thank you for joining us.

[1:11:21] Traci Thomas: You were absolutely wonderful.

[1:11:22] Jess McEnally: Um, why don't you promote your wonderful podcast and all the stuff you do on the internet?

[1:11:26] Traci Thomas: Okay. I just do one thing on the internet. It's a podcast.

[1:11:29] Traci Thomas: It's called The Stacks. It's all about books.

[1:11:31] Traci Thomas: Um, you can find it every Wednesday. New episodes drop, uh, interviews with authors.

[1:11:36] Traci Thomas: Once a month, we do a book club the last Wednesday of the month.

[1:11:39] Traci Thomas: Um, I guess I should plug this little thing.

[1:11:41] Traci Thomas: I don't know when this is gonna air, but this whole week I have been doing a mini series all about banned books.

[1:11:46] Traci Thomas: So it's five straight days of episodes about the banning of books in America.

[1:11:50] Jess McEnally: Um, it's not, there's no kickline, which what the fuck, but it's still really good.

[1:11:55] Traci Thomas: There's been some awesome guests. I talked to politicians, authors, students, teachers, all sorts of stuff.

[1:12:00] Traci Thomas: Um, you can find me on Instagram at The Stacks Pod, where in addition to promoting the show, I also write a book review for every single book I have read since I started the show four years ago.

[1:12:10] Traci Thomas: So plenty of book reviews. I think close to 300 plus at this point.

[1:12:15] Traci Thomas: Um, and you can find me on Twitter at The Stacks Pod underscore.

[1:12:19] Traci Thomas: Our website is thestackspodcast.com.

[1:12:21] Traci Thomas: And of course, those of you, especially hundred dollar guy, you can find me on Patreon at patreon.com/thestacks.

[1:12:28] Traci Thomas: I accept $100 donations from anyone and everyone.

[1:12:32] Traci Thomas: However, I will only say your name once, and you will have one shining moment in the sun.

[1:12:38] Traci Thomas: So thank you guys for letting me plug all of my things.

[1:12:41] Traci Thomas: And I also like to do uh a promo for the audience that I think would suit us.

[1:12:46] Traci Thomas: Um, I see you chatted with Alison Bechdel recently.

[1:12:49] Traci Thomas: Um, the author of Fun Home, who musical theater fans will be well aware of.

[1:12:53] Traci Thomas: I feel like they're gonna get a real kick out of that.

[1:12:56] Jess McEnally: Yeah, I talked to Alison Bechdel.

[1:12:57] Traci Thomas: Another person you guys might have heard of that I spoke to a few months ago in December was Angelina Jolie.

[1:13:03] Traci Thomas: Ever heard of her?

[1:13:04] Traci Thomas: It was awesome.

[1:13:05] Jess McEnally: Small actress.

[1:13:07] Traci Thomas: She uh has been directed a few small things.

[1:13:09] Traci Thomas: Yeah, she's been at a few things.

[1:13:11] Traci Thomas: Also a director you may have heard of, possibly if you've ever heard of movies.

[1:13:15] Traci Thomas: I also had Quentin Tarantino on the show.

[1:13:17] Traci Thomas: So those are all those are yeah, another small guy.

[1:13:20] Jess McEnally: Um, does he like feet?

[1:13:22] Traci Thomas: Yeah, he's like the foot fetish guy from Reddit, right?

[1:13:25] Jess McEnally: Yeah, yeah, that's him.

[1:13:25] Traci Thomas: Um, yeah, those are some other like not musical related, but famous people that I feel like people get excited about.

[1:13:33] Jess McEnally: And you're schlepping down with us to talk about A Chorus Line?

[1:13:33] Traci Thomas: Is that true?

[1:13:33] Traci Thomas: As I mentioned, A Chorus Line is my favorite musical.

[1:13:39] Traci Thomas: And if anyone will give me a microphone to talk about it, let me try.

[1:13:42] Jess McEnally: Oh, I hope it was worth it.

[1:13:43] Traci Thomas: Let me try.

[1:13:47] Jess McEnally: Thank you guys so much. This was awesome.

[1:13:50] Traci Thomas: Thank you so much for joining us.

[1:13:51] Jess McEnally: Um, how about we just go into this?

[1:13:55] Jess McEnally: Um, thank you guys for listening. We're on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Musicals with Cheese, we're on Twitter at Cheesy Musicals, Patreon Musical Cheese, Instagram Musicals with Cheese.

[1:14:02] Brianna Jones: We have a YouTube page, Musicals with Cheese.

[1:14:03] Jess McEnally: We have a patron only podcast called Patreon with Cheese, where once a week we do an episode of a TV show.

[1:14:07] Brianna Jones: I think we're doing the Tangled series right now.

[1:14:09] Jess McEnally: So you can only see that on Patreon.

[1:14:11] Brianna Jones: Email us at musicaltheatrelives@gmail.com.

[1:14:14] Jess McEnally: Our title card was created by the amazing Jolene Casco.

[1:14:17] Brianna Jones: Go follow them on Instagram at Jolene Casco.

[1:14:20] Jess McEnally: Our keeper of the cheese is Juliet Antonio. Thank you, Juliet.

[1:14:24] Brianna Jones: This show is produced by the wonderful, the incredible, one of my favorite people in the entire world, Brianna Jones.

[1:14:29] Jess McEnally: Our theme songs were created by Robin Nash of IOU Music UK.

[1:14:33] Brianna Jones: Thank you to the Broadway Podcast Network for having us on the platform and for not kicking us off for talking so much shit about Richard Attenborough's beautiful movie.

[1:14:41] Jess McEnally: Alright.

[1:14:42] Jess McEnally: Anything else we have left to say, Traci, Andrew, Bree?

[1:14:45] Traci Thomas: I think we're set.

[1:14:46] Andrew DeWolf: Man.

[1:14:46] Jess McEnally: I can do that.

[1:14:48] Jess McEnally: On that, we'll see you next time on Musicals with Cheese.