This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Jesse McAnally: Da da da ya da da da ya! Musicals with Cheese!

[0:09] Jesse McAnally: Hello, I'm Jesse McAnally. And I'm Andrew DeWolf. And I'm Brianna Jones. And welcome to Musicals with Cheese, a podcast where I try to get Andrew and Bri to like musical theater.

[0:18] Jesse McAnally: And how are you guys doing today? You know, playing with the magic flute.

[0:24] Andrew DeWolf: That means a penis! That's a penis! Wow, Andrew!

[0:30] Jesse McAnally: All right, that's the episode, fellas. We'll see you later.

[0:33] Brianna Jones: Thanks for listening this week. Bye, everyone!

[0:37] Andrew DeWolf: Goodbye, everybody! Da da da ya da da da ya! Musicals with Cheese!

[0:48] Jesse McAnally: No, no, no. We gotta put a little bit more into that. So this week, by Patreon request, we are talking about Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart's The Magic Flute. Cue the music, Bri!

[1:26] Jesse McAnally: The Magic Flute, or as it is called in German, hey, you German and European fans, get ready for me to say a bunch of German words wrong. I'm not gonna try to get it beforehand. I'm not gonna have a translator say it. I'm just gonna raw dog this. Die Zauberflote was written by Emanuel Schikanader, who did the libretto, and Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, who wrote the score. The opera was premiered in Vienna on September 30th, 1791 at the suburban Freyhaus Theater. Mozart conducted the orchestra. Schikanader himself played Papaganio, while the Queen of the Night was sung by Mozart's sister-in-law, Josefa Hofer. He specifically wrote it to her vocal range, which could jump between octaves very quickly from low to high and high to low, which is the reason why the role was written that way, as well as Papaganio was written that way to suit Schikanader.

I'm gonna call you Schikanader. Don't correct me. I'm not gonna care. This would be Mozart's final opera, for he would die a mere three months after the premiere in December of 1791. He was so connected to his sister-in-law's voice that on his deathbed, delirious, he said, listen to her! Listen to Josefa! Hit that high F! So he was really taken with this specific piece, and nepotism leads to art, is all we know. So the plot of the Magic Flute is, it is a fairy tale of darkness, light, and finding your way in the world. It takes form of a spinkspiel, which means it includes singing and spoken dialogue, you know, a bit like a musical. The story opens in the middle of the action. Tamino, a prince lost in a foreign land, is being pursued by an enormous monster, sometimes it's a snake, sometimes it's other things.

He is rescued by three mysterious ladies, it's always three in this musical, who kill the monster and give Tamino a picture of Pamina, a daughter of the Queen of the Night, with whom he falls in love instantly. They tell him that Pamina has been captured by the powerful and evil Sarastro, and Tamino vows to rescue her. He also picks up a good friend that's also maybe a bird, depends on how you view it, but with the gift of the Magic Flute and some magic bells, and the assistance of the birdcatcher Papageno. So, Tamino sets off on his quest, however, he soon discovers that nothing, not even day and night, is quite as it first appears.

[4:16] Jesse McAnally: Alright, so, something I just discovered while taking this on as a Patreon request is, the Magic Flute is not always the Magic Flute. Sometimes it's the Magic Flute in space, sometimes it's the Magic Flute in World War I, sometimes it's the Magic Flute in a hotel with chefs. I didn't know that before I gave Andrew the file, so I very much want to see Andrew's interpretation of what the plot of the Magic Flute is.

[4:49] Andrew DeWolf: Bro, I have no fucking clue. I'm going to be straight with you, this is the first time I have actually no idea what happened. I don't even know who the main character really was, like what his goals were. I don't know if he accomplished the goal. He's in love with the girl. I feel like at the end he got the girl, but I honestly don't know. There was like big robots that showed up at some point. I don't know what was the deal with them. I don't know who the chefs are. I think they want to kill the bird. I'm not actually sure. I have no idea. I don't know what happened in this fucking show. The music was really good, though.

[5:25] Jesse McAnally: The music is very good. So, we are recording this the day that our Pirates of Penzance episode posted, and it's doing very well.

[5:33] Andrew DeWolf: Opera with cheese.

[5:34] Jesse McAnally: For the moment, it is opera with cheese. I do want to say there have been a lot of good responses defining the difference between opera and musicals, because I know we've gone into this a lot.

[5:46] Andrew DeWolf: Yes. It's a lively debate, one we should dedicate our entire podcast to.

[5:51] Jesse McAnally: No, I think this is going to be the end of it.

[5:54] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, they're different, right?

[5:56] Jesse McAnally: Kind of, but not really.

[5:57] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know.

[6:00] Jesse McAnally: Is the final definition.

[6:02] Jesse McAnally: They're different, but they're also not really that different.

[6:05] Andrew DeWolf: A musical can be an opera, but an opera can't be a musical, right?

[6:08] Jesse McAnally: Something along those lines.

[6:09] Andrew DeWolf: Something along those lines.

[6:12] Jesse McAnally: I don't know. Maybe.

[6:13] Jesse McAnally: Okay, so here's one definition, and this one is from the wonderful Emily Blachowski Malick. They actually questioned the director of the Michigan Opera Theater. The difference is all about staging, allegedly. The performers in musical theaters don't sing to each other, where performers in operas stand near the front of the stage and sing to the audience. Others have defined it in the same way, which is operas, their main focus is the music first, and they don't really care about the story, the libretto, the lyrics. It is all music, and you just kind of let it wash over you. For a musical, you actually take in what the story is. Those are the main differences, which I guess that defines it all right.

[6:56] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, that tracks onto this, if we're going to go with that, because I don't think they gave a shit if we understood what happened in this, I'm going to be real.

[7:04] Jesse McAnally: So Andrew, I watched four versions of the Magic Flute today.

[7:10] Andrew DeWolf: Where did you even find that time? That's like 12 hours.

[7:15] Jesse McAnally: I knew I wanted to see the differences. I knew I wanted to embrace it.

[7:19] Andrew DeWolf: Well, you must know what happens in the Magic Flute.

[7:22] Jesse McAnally: I do now.

[7:24] Jesse McAnally: I am very grateful. I think I started it on the best foot forward, which was the BBC did a 30-minute interpretation of it, where they just tell the story through animation. Beautiful animation, really well done animation. It was done in 1995. They truncate it to like all the best moments, and they kind of just are, they're speeding it through, like the dialogue is said very fast, so we can get to the next part. And they tell the story very concisely in 30 minutes, hitting every single bullet point of the story. And that's what I started with. That was how I started my day. Then I moved on because I'm like, that is going to be a straight direct narrative of the story where I will at least get the bullet points. So in 2006, Kenneth Branagh did a film adaptation of the Magic Flute in English with a translation by Stephen Fry, who is very good. And Kenneth Branagh is one of those directors who I think makes movies only for himself. You're like easing into it here.

[8:19] Jesse McAnally: I did. I did. And this specific one he had set in World War One. So they are in like the war zone and they bump into each other. And instead of like a lock on Papageno's mouth, they put a gas mask on him. It's a very visually, it's probably the most visually intriguing movie of an opera I've ever seen. Like, I know you and I watched La Boheme, and that was just kind of like, they're singing. We're doing it.

[8:44] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[8:44] Jesse McAnally: And that was interesting. They didn't shy away from the magical aspects, but it does a very good job at telling the story. Then I watched that to the point that Act One ends. So I saw where Act One ends. Then I popped in the Julie Taymor version, which is a more straight, straight up one. And I watched the first half of Act Two of hers. I'm like, I get where this is going. And then I watched all the way to the end with the Igmar Bergman film from the 70s. And I capped it off with that.

[9:14] Andrew DeWolf: Did you even watch the one that I watched?

[9:16] Jesse McAnally: I did not.

[9:17] Andrew DeWolf: Damn, we can't even talk about the giant robots.

[9:20] Jesse McAnally: No, I really just want to hear like your interpretation. Like, how did they do the serpent for you?

[9:25] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, my goodness. All the way back at the beginning. I don't think they show anything. I'm pretty sure it's like just implied that he's in danger.

[9:31] Jesse McAnally: OK, because that's what I don't remember. More wild things like I feel like most people with money to stage it. That's like you're big. We're starting out big and then we're going to sing a bunch and then we might end big. Honestly, let me let me just pull it up really quick so I can remember.

[9:49] Andrew DeWolf: How about while you do that, I try to explain what I think the story of the magic flute is.

[9:55] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, go ahead.

[9:56] Andrew DeWolf: I think you probably actually understand the story, whereas I literally don't.

[10:02] Jesse McAnally: Well, I want to see how you I want you to keep up and ask questions as I go.

[10:07] Andrew DeWolf: So we start off with this prince and he's in the middle of nowhere and a serpent monster thing. Sometimes it's a snake, sometimes it's a ball of gas, sometimes anything. But definitely a monster comes to attack him. He freaks out and then he's at death's door and then three women save him and kill the monster.

[10:27] Andrew DeWolf: And they're like, oh, wait, wait, I went back. It was like a it was like a little puppet that flies around for like it's only on screen for like are on stage for like a minute, so I forgot about it. But they do have like a puppet that goes around. And so three ladies and in the World War Two one, they're like nurses and like nun nurses. But when they see that it's the prince and he's hot, they rip open their chest and they show their cleavage to show that they're horny for him.

[10:51] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, yeah.

[10:52] Andrew DeWolf: And they're like, oh, he's so hot. Let's go get our boss, the queen of the night, and then she can talk to him. And so they go to after saving him, they go to find their boss.

[11:03] Andrew DeWolf: And then the prince wakes up and sees Papageno, who's this bird man. He either meaning he takes care of birds or he is part bird. He definitely has a connection to birds.

[11:15] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, I remember that because Papageno in the one that I saw is wearing a suit that has like a duck back.

[11:21] Andrew DeWolf: I have a pan ass attached to me. It's kind of just like I couldn't quite figure out what was supposed to be going on with that, but I just kind of figured, well, he's like a duck.

[11:32] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, he takes care of the birds. Allegedly, he's a bird person.

[11:38] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, both in the literal sometimes and the metaphorical sense.

[11:42] Jesse McAnally: And the prince thinks that the bird person saved him. And the bird person's like, oh, yeah, I totally did. Yeah, I kicked his ass. And the three ladies are like, no, you didn't. You lying liar. And they like lock his mouth.

[11:56] Andrew DeWolf: So he can't tell lies anymore.

[11:58] Jesse McAnally: The one I saw, they literally put an entire cage over his head.

[12:02] Andrew DeWolf: That's funny because he's a bird, I guess. I think that's fun. That's a good artistic choice. I'm into that.

[12:07] Jesse McAnally: So the three ladies bring the queen of the dark. Oh, no, the ladies show him a picture of the princess, the daughter of the queen of the dark. And he's immediately in love. He's like, oh, my God. Look how hot she is. She's so hot. Me love a wuga.

[12:24] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[12:25] Jesse McAnally: And the queen of the dark comes in. She's like, oh, my God, my daughter was kidnapped by this evil man, this evil wizard guy who's the king of the light. Bowser. My daughter was kidnapped by Bowser. Will you if you save her, I will let you marry him, even though she has she should probably have a say here. But no, no, you're not allowed to have a say.

[12:49] Andrew DeWolf: OK, I just got a great idea for like a Mario adaptation of this.

[12:54] Jesse McAnally: I think there is a Mario adaptation of the Magic Flute. I sincerely do believe that exists.

[12:59] Andrew DeWolf: There is a Magic Flute item in the Mario games.

[13:02] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, I think sincerely there is.

[13:06] Jesse McAnally: Like a proper stage.

[13:07] Andrew DeWolf: Bree, look that up. I think I might be pulling that on my ass, but I'm almost 100% sure that exists.

[13:12] Jesse McAnally: Mario and Luigi.

[13:15] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, literally, it's Mario and Luigi.

[13:17] Jesse McAnally: Papageno. Papageno!

[13:20] Andrew DeWolf: OK, keep going, keep going.

[13:21] Jesse McAnally: So you're right, there is.

[13:23] Andrew DeWolf: Show Andrew, what's it look like?

[13:25] Jesse McAnally: I'm going to send you the link. There's a whole article on it.

[13:27] Andrew DeWolf: Why didn't you have me watch this one?

[13:28] Jesse McAnally: I don't think I'd be able to get it, to be honest.

[13:31] Andrew DeWolf: Imagine going to the opera and you're seeing the Mario one. You don't tell your grandma.

[13:34] Jesse McAnally: We're just going to see the Magic Flute.

[13:37] Andrew DeWolf: Come on, I'm at the opera right now.

[13:43] Jesse McAnally: Oh, my God. Please scroll through the photos.

[13:45] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, my Lord.

[13:47] Jesse McAnally: Look up the Super Mario Magic Flute.

[13:50] Andrew DeWolf: I, oh, why did we watch this?

[13:52] Jesse McAnally: This looks amazing.

[13:54] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, this looks fantastic.

[13:56] Jesse McAnally: We should have watched this.

[13:57] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, that would have been great.

[13:59] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, it is a good adaptation, though.

[14:02] Andrew DeWolf: I found it. I'll send it to you guys so you can watch it.

[14:05] Jesse McAnally: All right, kids, if you're watching your first version of the Magic Flute, make it once again. This goes back to the saying, there's no normal version of the Magic Flute anymore.

[14:14] Andrew DeWolf: It's always like a weird fucking wild ass version.

[14:17] Jesse McAnally: Is that Zelda?

[14:18] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, yeah. Why is Zelda in this?

[14:19] Jesse McAnally: OK, we can't do this.

[14:21] Andrew DeWolf: What's he doing here?

[14:22] Jesse McAnally: This is incredible.

[14:23] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, this is pretty impressive.

[14:25] Jesse McAnally: This is better than the Mario movie.

[14:27] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, this is going to be better than the Chris Pratt Mario movie.

[14:30] Jesse McAnally: This is like the actual adaptation of Mario.

[14:32] Andrew DeWolf: OK, keep going. We got to keep going.

[14:34] Jesse McAnally: We were at like he put the cage over his head and then they gave him a picture.

[14:37] Andrew DeWolf: No, no. She promises that her daughter to him if she saves him, even though no consent from her.

[14:44] Jesse McAnally: And then they him and Papageno go off. She gives him a magic flute. She gives Papageno magic bells. Off they go.

[14:49] Andrew DeWolf: Somehow, just in the next scene, Papageno is just already with the princess already in the same room with her.

[14:56] Jesse McAnally: Oh, just Papageno, not the other guy?

[14:58] Andrew DeWolf: No, not the other guy, because the other guy was given three children to lead him through the right way with three truths that he has to go by.

[15:06] Jesse McAnally: So the prince goes off with the three boys.

[15:09] Andrew DeWolf: What? Yes. OK.

[15:11] Jesse McAnally: I'm just immediately lost. This is why I couldn't follow this shit.

[15:17] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[15:19] Jesse McAnally: The prince goes off with the three boys. Papageno shows up to the princess. They go together.

[15:25] Andrew DeWolf: I'm relaying the story.

[15:26] Jesse McAnally: I know this well enough to know what happens.

[15:30] Andrew DeWolf: You're lying.

[15:31] Jesse McAnally: He doesn't. You don't understand what's happening.

[15:33] Andrew DeWolf: I understand this.

[15:35] Jesse McAnally: So I spent a lot of time to understand this. The prince went off with three little boys to lead to the princess and Papageno just fucking guess and made it there the next day.

[15:46] Andrew DeWolf: No, it's not the next day.

[15:47] Jesse McAnally: It looks like the same day.

[15:49] Andrew DeWolf: He's like he's like, ah, three doors off. There she is. She's in her bedroom.

[15:55] Jesse McAnally: She wasn't kidnapped at all.

[15:57] Andrew DeWolf: But Papageno shows up and like, what's the sun? God's name? Oh, Sarastro's or something like that.

[16:06] Jesse McAnally: So Sarastro or something.

[16:09] Andrew DeWolf: Hang on. We have to be ready with those pronunciation corrections because I'm going to get them all written down.

[16:14] Jesse McAnally: You think I can pronounce words?

[16:18] Andrew DeWolf: Is that the joke of previews?

[16:19] Jesse McAnally: Sarastro, Sarastro's.

[16:22] Andrew DeWolf: So one of his men is like trying to rape the princess at first, which is just not cool. Most adaptations just cut that part out.

[16:31] Jesse McAnally: So Papageno shows up and he's like, I'm here to take you to your true love, the prince, and she's like, I love him.

[16:37] Andrew DeWolf: And then Papageno.

[16:39] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[16:41] Andrew DeWolf: And Papageno's like, you know, it would be great if I had a true love and they sing a whole aria duet about how great love is.

[16:47] Jesse McAnally: And she basically friend zones him and he is like the ultimate like incel for the rest of the story.

[16:55] Andrew DeWolf: He has one character trait. He wants to get married and he can't because he's a duck.

[17:02] Jesse McAnally: Yes. So what the fuck is this is already completely off the walls storytelling, I need to fast forward this.

[17:12] Andrew DeWolf: There's a lot more story to get through here.

[17:14] Jesse McAnally: OK, OK, OK, keep going.

[17:15] Andrew DeWolf: So Papageno and the princess go off. The prince goes with the three boys and finds like a servant to Sarastro and he's like, I need to defeat the evil man.

[17:26] Jesse McAnally: He's like, he's not an evil man. He's a nice guy.

[17:28] Andrew DeWolf: And he's like, are you sure?

[17:32] Jesse McAnally: He's like, yeah, I'm sure he's the god of the sun.

[17:34] Andrew DeWolf: Then he shows up and he's like, I'm a real nice fellow.

[17:37] Jesse McAnally: And then they're like, oh, we were tricked.

[17:39] Andrew DeWolf: We were tricked by the evil queen who we discover now is evil, apparently.

[17:45] Jesse McAnally: And the king of the sun is like, hey, I just kidnapped you because now the princess is here with Papageno.

[17:53] Andrew DeWolf: I'm so tired of these twist villains. It's getting ridiculous.

[17:56] Jesse McAnally: The sun god says, I kidnapped you to hide you from your mother's dark ways.

[18:05] Andrew DeWolf: OK, OK. And I just I.

[18:07] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, you're free to leave if you want.

[18:09] Andrew DeWolf: You're not kidnapped.

[18:10] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, I just want to save you. You could have left whatever you want.

[18:12] Andrew DeWolf: It kind of was like that.

[18:14] Jesse McAnally: But also, like one of my men was like, you know, doing stuff with you earlier.

[18:19] Andrew DeWolf: So we don't bring that up again.

[18:21] Jesse McAnally: It's literally the big lift alligator moment of this story.

[18:25] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, my God.

[18:27] Jesse McAnally: And in this moment, the prince and the princess meet for the first time and they're like, oh, love loves great guys.

[18:34] Andrew DeWolf: OK. And then the king, the sun king is like, you must do a bunch of tasks to prove that you love her.

[18:41] Jesse McAnally: And then then you're allowed to get married.

[18:43] Andrew DeWolf: All right. All right.

[18:45] Jesse McAnally: And he says, Papageno, if you do these tasks, you will get yourself a bride because you have one character trait and that's that's to be an incel.

[18:53] Andrew DeWolf: He's going to fail all the tasks, I'm guessing.

[18:56] Jesse McAnally: Yeah. Yeah, you're not wrong. He is. He is the funny character.

[18:59] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. So but we're getting into sitcom territory.

[19:03] Jesse McAnally: So the queen, the evil queen comes, sings the aria.

[19:07] Andrew DeWolf: We all know that got sent into space at.

[19:09] Jesse McAnally: The. Yeah, that one.

[19:15] Andrew DeWolf: And says, hey, you have to go murder the sun god now.

[19:19] Jesse McAnally: And she gives her a knife.

[19:20] Andrew DeWolf: And then she's just like, goes to the sun god. She's like, I was I was told to kill you and I'm sorry.

[19:26] Jesse McAnally: And he's like, it's all good, bro.

[19:28] Andrew DeWolf: It's all good.

[19:29] Jesse McAnally: It literally is just like, man, there ain't no thing. I get it.

[19:34] Andrew DeWolf: Just do what you got to do. We're all trying to get by.

[19:36] Jesse McAnally: Meanwhile, the prince is in the task, but he is told he has to be silent.

[19:41] Andrew DeWolf: He can't speak.

[19:42] Jesse McAnally: But then the princess comes up to him and he doesn't talk to her.

[19:46] Andrew DeWolf: So she thinks he's no longer in love with her.

[19:48] Jesse McAnally: So she threatens to kill herself.

[19:53] Andrew DeWolf: Just you can't tell me that I could have ever followed this.

[19:56] Jesse McAnally: I know there's no world where I watched this one time and understand what was happening.

[20:02] Andrew DeWolf: Meanwhile, Papageno's in that task where he has to be in love.

[20:07] Jesse McAnally: They are sorry, be quiet.

[20:08] Andrew DeWolf: And a woman says like, oh, yeah, I'm in love with you.

[20:12] Jesse McAnally: But then she turns into an old lady and now he's forced to marry her.

[20:15] Andrew DeWolf: And then he just fails the shining.

[20:17] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, he fails.

[20:18] Andrew DeWolf: We're going to speed this up because I feel like I'm taking a while.

[20:21] Jesse McAnally: OK, so there's another task they do.

[20:22] Andrew DeWolf: They do all the trials.

[20:23] Jesse McAnally: OK, he admits to like the princess, like, hey, it was just a part of the task.

[20:27] Andrew DeWolf: And then she's basically like, let's do the rest of the task together.

[20:30] Jesse McAnally: And he plays the magic flute to get through the rest of it.

[20:33] Andrew DeWolf: And they do.

[20:35] Jesse McAnally: And because the flute in their love and then they're allowed to go and be together and also Papageno's given a twin of himself that is a female to have sex with, and they all live happily ever after.

[20:49] Andrew DeWolf: OK, so when did the giant robot show up?

[20:52] Jesse McAnally: I don't know when that happened in your version.

[20:56] Andrew DeWolf: Where is the flute?

[20:59] Jesse McAnally: The flute is with the guy, and he uses it to complete the task.

[21:02] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, use it to complete the task at the end.

[21:04] Jesse McAnally: The magic bells are not used.

[21:06] Andrew DeWolf: They're used a couple of times.

[21:07] Jesse McAnally: They did not hear anything about the flute, so I'd ask.

[21:10] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, it's used a couple of times, but the bells were used to try to because the flute turns you from sad to happy.

[21:18] Jesse McAnally: And the bells just kind of like distract and make you feel good.

[21:22] Andrew DeWolf: And he uses the bells to help get the princess out.

[21:25] Jesse McAnally: But that didn't feel important to bring up.

[21:28] Andrew DeWolf: OK, but they're both used.

[21:30] Jesse McAnally: OK, good.

[21:33] Andrew DeWolf: So any questions?

[21:35] Jesse McAnally: I did broad strokes because it's three hours long. I had to just hit the main things.

[21:38] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. So when did they invent conventional storytelling?

[21:44] Jesse McAnally: Was that like in the 1800s, maybe?

[21:48] Andrew DeWolf: It's a fairy tale.

[21:49] Jesse McAnally: And how about I talk to you?

[21:54] Andrew DeWolf: What do you want? It's a fairy tale.

[21:56] Jesse McAnally: It's not a fairy tale.

[21:57] Andrew DeWolf: It's nonsense.

[21:59] Jesse McAnally: What's the what is the moral of the story?

[22:01] Andrew DeWolf: If there's a it's a fairytale love.

[22:06] Jesse McAnally: Becoming a better person and overcoming trials.

[22:12] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. And also a Freemasonry.

[22:16] Jesse McAnally: Oh, Freemasonry, what we got.

[22:19] Andrew DeWolf: So I'm interested in that eyes wide shut type shit.

[22:22] Jesse McAnally: Yes. Can you explain to me what Freemasonry really is, though? Because I don't understand what it is.

[22:27] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. So Freemasonry is it's like a group where you go and you meet up and it's just a bunch of dudes hanging out.

[22:35] Jesse McAnally: And honestly, that's kind of all it is at this point.

[22:37] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know what it was back in the 1700s, but nowadays it's literally just like it's a boys club.

[22:44] Jesse McAnally: That's about it.

[22:46] Andrew DeWolf: I got a friend who does it.

[22:47] Jesse McAnally: That's weird.

[22:48] Andrew DeWolf: So it's about Freemasonry that apparently has a connection to it.

[22:54] Jesse McAnally: It's influenced by Enlightenment philosophy and can be regarded as advocating enlightened absolutism.

[22:57] Andrew DeWolf: The Queen of the Night is seen by those to represent a dangerous form of obscurantism and by others to represent the Roman Catholic Empress Maria Theresa, who banned Freemasonry from Austria.

[23:15] Jesse McAnally: Others see the Roman Catholic Church itself, which was strongly against Masonry.

[23:20] Andrew DeWolf: The I'm going to need some like citations on how this works, like where are we getting this?

[23:28] Jesse McAnally: This has been said a lot of places.

[23:29] Andrew DeWolf: I don't understand Freemasonry, so I just kind of was putting it.

[23:33] Jesse McAnally: But apparently there's a lot of connections like between Freemasonry and the Catholic Church and the way that he uses threes like the three boys, the three girls, the thirds in which the music's used.

[23:43] Andrew DeWolf: So Freemasonry back in the day, I think, was more like cryptic.

[23:48] Jesse McAnally: And it was like it was more religious or maybe not even religious.

[23:53] Andrew DeWolf: Like philosophical.

[23:54] Jesse McAnally: Like it was like an Enlightenment movement, I think.

[23:57] Andrew DeWolf: Like it wasn't like Ben Franklin and a lot of those people.

[24:00] Jesse McAnally: George Washington, Mark Twain and Mozart were master masons.

[24:03] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. So it was like an Enlightenment movement.

[24:06] Jesse McAnally: Nowadays, I don't think it does.

[24:07] Andrew DeWolf: They do anything really other than just drink and fuck around.

[24:11] Jesse McAnally: But probably back then it was a bigger deal.

[24:14] Andrew DeWolf: But where the fuck is this?

[24:15] Jesse McAnally: Like, how do you interpret this?

[24:17] Andrew DeWolf: OK, well, because the queen of the night was bad.

[24:20] Jesse McAnally: It was things that they don't like.

[24:22] Andrew DeWolf: Like, like, I don't know.

[24:24] Jesse McAnally: OK, there is an entire breakdown of this a medium dot com.

[24:28] Andrew DeWolf: So the trials are specifically the symbols particularly prominent in the magic flute is three.

[24:34] Jesse McAnally: Three is an important symbol to the Freemasons that represents a balance in order.

[24:37] Andrew DeWolf: The three ladies, the three trials, the three spirits, the three doors and much of the music is composed in a flat major that has three flats and a key signature.

[24:45] Jesse McAnally: So that is one it's tied to.

[24:48] Andrew DeWolf: OK, OK.

[24:49] Jesse McAnally: It's an allegorical tale aligned with free thinking and enlightenment.

[24:55] Andrew DeWolf: Why a magic flute, a common Masonic theme is that music has the power to transcend human fear and hatred.

[25:00] Jesse McAnally: So the moral of the story is that through the Masonic order and guided by the beauty of music, society's enlightened men and women equally.

[25:06] Andrew DeWolf: OK, I mean, I can buy it.

[25:09] Jesse McAnally: Honestly, I can't tell what what's happening in the story, so like I really can't judge how the theme is opera for you, as we now discovered.

[25:17] Andrew DeWolf: This is like a real opera, though.

[25:19] Jesse McAnally: It's not like the Pirates of Penzance or whatever.

[25:21] Andrew DeWolf: This is like this is the legit shit right here.

[25:24] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, but strangely, it has a more musical theater vibe.

[25:28] Andrew DeWolf: Like they stop to have dialogue and conversations and all that.

[25:33] Jesse McAnally: It is not just sung through beginning to end.

[25:35] Andrew DeWolf: Maybe that's because he really wanted to get this Masonic message out there.

[25:39] Jesse McAnally: I mean, maybe.

[25:41] Andrew DeWolf: And this is one of those things where, like, I expect it to be based on like a different, like a fairy tale that already existed, you know, like Faust or something.

[25:49] Jesse McAnally: But no, this is like a wholesale original story.

[25:52] Andrew DeWolf: It's maybe that's the reason why it feels so like no one knows what they're talking about.

[25:55] Jesse McAnally: It just it just seems scattershot, like you set up this big quest and then immediately resolve it.

[26:02] Andrew DeWolf: And then the person who gave the quest is now the bad guy.

[26:06] Jesse McAnally: And there's just trials you have to do.

[26:07] Andrew DeWolf: Like, what the fuck? What is happening?

[26:10] Andrew DeWolf: You know, I mean, I understand like from a modern like standing is probably very, very difficult. I put the work in, though. I put the work in and I'm sure some people will be like, hey, don't think you really understood what you were talking about. I definitely don't. If anyone says that about me, they're correct. I watched a version that I'm pretty sure is in German with subtitles. They're in a hotel. Please try to describe what happens in your version, please. They're in a hotel. There's chefs. I think the chefs are supposed to be the sun, like the day people. And then the night the queen of the night is just a lady. There's big robots that show up only at the very like near the end. I can't I don't know where those fit in.

It really doesn't make any fucking sense. I don't know. I'm going to look for these big robots now. Like they explained at the beginning, I saw a little bit of the beginning where they're like, we are doing this in a hotel this time around. Yeah, they spend most of the time in the kitchen. There's a lot of chefs, like a lot of chefs. Let me see if I can find the giant robots so you can see them. Like, I don't actually like very close to the end. Like, I feel like maybe there's a part in The Magic Flute that I'm missing at the end where it makes sense for magic robots to pop up, but I don't think so. Uh, two hours and 15 minutes. OK, so maybe it's just like one of the trials. Oh, that makes sense.

Oh, it's like you have to be purified by firewood. OK, it's cool. I mean, I like that they actually look like robots. I don't know what the fuck's happening, though. Yeah, this is this is one of the trials for. Oh, yeah, it's these are the priests. Oh, the priests. Oh, yeah. OK. That are letting him know the final like, OK, this makes sense. I mean, as much as this story can make sense, this makes sense. I feel like I feel like I'm just trying to explain a dream that happened a thousand years ago.

[28:04] Jess McAnally: So we got to talk about opera for a sec, you know? Yeah, let's go. Do opera fans care about the story like at all? Is it one of those things? Is all of this is it all just kind of like the director is like jerking themselves off, even bothering with costumes and staging and giant robot puppets and all that? Like the people watching, do they have any fucking clue what's happening?

[28:28] Andrew DeWolf: They do, because they've seen this 500 times at this point. Yeah, because they only stage like the same couple operas over and over again. They don't ever show anything new. I mean, when's the last recent opera like done it like I mean, I made one once, but I think people write operas all the time. They just never see the light of day because nobody gives a fuck about opera anymore unless they don't give a fuck about Mozart.

[28:49] Jess McAnally: Yeah. Unless it was like Puccini or Mozart or any of those. Yeah. Well, who cares what we say? Let's compare our opinions to those of the critics when this first came out. It's time for Brie Views! It's time for Brie Views! It's time for Brie Views!

[29:10] Andrew DeWolf: All right, Brie, we've got a little bit of a little piece of what people thought of this in the 1700s.

[29:18] Brianna Jones: Yes, we do. Jesus Christ, you found something from the 1790s? I'll tell you what it said. So although there were no reviews of the first performances, it was immediately evident that Mozart and Chicander had achieved a great success, the opera drawing immense crowds and reaching hundreds of performances during the 1790s. As Mozart's letters show. 1790s. Long time ago. As Mozart's letters show, he was very pleased to have achieved such a success. Solomon continues. Mozart's delight is reflected in his last three letters written to Constance, who with her sister Sophie was spending the second week of October in Baden. I have this moment returned from the opera, which was as full as ever. He wrote on 7 October listing the numbers that had to be encored. But what always gives me the most pleasure is the silent approval. You can see how this opera is becoming more and more esteemed. He went to hear his opera almost every night, taking along friends and relatives.

[30:31] Andrew DeWolf: Wait, they used to encore songs at the opera?

[30:36] Jess McAnally: Yeah. What else are you going to do with your time?

[30:41] Andrew DeWolf: That just seems so cool. I feel like classical music gets this rep of being stuffy and boring and like for like people that don't have any fun ever. But like back when this stuff was first coming out, it was like a it was like a rock concert, you know, like people loved this shit.

[30:51] Jess McAnally: I mean, yeah. And they knew all the intricacies and they kind of knew the story going in. So they yeah, I remember in the film Amadeus, they really were tying this into his death. So there's like a part where he's like conducting and playing music for this show and then just passing out, which didn't happen. That movie also says a lot of things that aren't true, but it's a good movie. It doesn't have to be factually accurate to be a good movie.

[31:18] Andrew DeWolf: No, just don't use it as a historical reason.

[31:23] Jess McAnally: No. And I don't think the writers would ever say you should. They're like, we're just trying to make entertainment with Mozart music. Fuck it. Mozart's life was probably not that exciting, honestly. The most exciting thing was just the weird letters he would write and talking about poop.

[31:36] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. But who hasn't done that?

[31:41] Jess McAnally: Yeah, I'm really interested to see if both folks will use our podcast to say like how we lived once we become big and famous and important after we die.

[31:46] Andrew DeWolf: It's true. We might. Yes. All right. It's time to go on to the second part of reviews. The letterboxd game. One star, five stars. Bri, you're head to head with Andrew. Are you ready?

[31:52] Brianna Jones: I'm ready.

[31:57] Andrew DeWolf: Uh, yeah. You got annihilated last time. So yeah, we'll see. For those of you who have not come here before to the cheese house, this game is played. I am going to read a review and only the full review. But you have to tell us with only that information, whether it was a one star review or a five star review. They are binaries. It is either a one star or five star. There is no in between. All right, Andrew, are you ready?

[32:04] Andrew DeWolf: I'm ready. Let's do it. The opera version of Shrek.

[32:25] Brianna Jones: I guess in like a very baseline, broad strokes sort of way. Let's see. I mean, I'm going to go with five stars for that because I mean, Shrek. Yes, it is true. But I actually see it like I didn't see it when I got this review, but I see it now. A guy and his comic relief sidekick have to rescue a princess. Yeah, I see it. And they were sent to get the princess by someone that they later find out is the bad guy. Yeah. And it's kind of obvious from the beginning that they're the bad guy, even though they try to play it like a twist. And the dragon that is that has kidnapped the princess turns out to not be a bad guy. She sucks the donkey's dick.

[33:04] Brianna Jones: All right, Brie, you're ready? Yes. Astounding visuals, great music and a fun time all around. Five stars.

[33:10] Andrew DeWolf: That is a one star.

[33:15] Brianna Jones: Yeah, that was way too obvious.

[33:20] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, that was. You know, I wanted to give it a one star, but I was like, hmm, just give it a five, you know, and I lost. All right, Andrew, you're ready?

[33:25] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. Don't at me. This movie is weird as fuck and Mozart still slaps. Period.

[33:31] Brianna Jones: God, now that one feels also too obvious, but I'm I'm going to go with five stars anyways.

[33:31] Andrew DeWolf: That's a one star.

[33:37] Brianna Jones: Imagine being alive in the 18th century and having the Queen of Night Aria as your lesbian awakening.

[33:42] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, my God. Five star.

[33:45] Brianna Jones: That is correct. Brie takes the lead. Andrew, you ready?

[33:51] Andrew DeWolf: How'd Brie take the lead? I thought we're tied.

[33:57] Brianna Jones: No, Andrew didn't get the last one. But didn't he get the first one?

[34:04] Andrew DeWolf: He did. That means you're ahead now, Brie.

[34:10] Brianna Jones: But Brie didn't get the first one.

[34:17] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, she did.

[34:22] Brianna Jones: Oh, maybe I'm wrong. Sorry. You're tied. This guy, this guy, he's just out to get me. He doesn't want me to win. Andrew, you ready?

[34:28] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. The Magic Flute isn't an opera. It's Tangled done 200 years earlier.

[34:36] Brianna Jones: OK, no, it's not. Get the fuck out of here. That's just not much. It's just completely wrong. But they probably like Tangled. So five stars.

[34:41] Andrew DeWolf: That is correct. Andrew takes the lead. All right, Brie, you ready?

[34:47] Brianna Jones: Mm hmm. Where is my goth girlfriend that just 1000 skeletons in a trench coat?

[34:52] Andrew DeWolf: They don't have a goth girlfriend. So that makes me think one star.

[34:56] Brianna Jones: That is correct.

[34:59] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[35:01] Brianna Jones: Andrew, you're up.

[35:04] Andrew DeWolf: OK. I DK if this is good or not. But my dad made me watch it a billion times and I don't like my dad very much.

[35:10] Brianna Jones: This is another like it feels too obvious, but I I'm just going to go for it. One star.

[35:15] Andrew DeWolf: That is correct.

[35:20] Brianna Jones: It's not cool, but it still hasn't lost its beauty.

[35:25] Andrew DeWolf: Five stars.

[35:31] Brianna Jones: That is a one star. And I knew it. I knew it. Tragedy. Tragedy.

[35:36] Andrew DeWolf: All right, Andrew, you ready?

[35:41] Andrew DeWolf: I'm ready. I'm ready. So fire. They randomly decided to show this at the theater next to my apartment. WTF. So fire. They randomly decided to show. Is that am I reading that correctly?

[35:49] Brianna Jones: I think so. There's no comma. It's all one run on sentence with no period.

[35:54] Andrew DeWolf: Five stars.

[35:58] Brianna Jones: That is correct.

[36:01] Andrew DeWolf: No, I'm going to lose.

[36:05] Brianna Jones: Yeah, he's killing me. That's not for you. Ready?

[36:10] Brianna Jones: I talk shit. Now I'm losing. You can say that maybe I'm Mozart's bitch now.

[36:16] Andrew DeWolf: That doesn't sound very good. One star.

[36:21] Brianna Jones: That's a five star. You want to be Mozart's bitch. Come on. You want that?

[36:27] Andrew DeWolf: Why?

[36:30] Brianna Jones: Yeah, that's a good thing. Want him to write me a shit haiku.

[36:35] Andrew DeWolf: All right, and you're ready.

[36:39] Andrew DeWolf: I'm ready. I'm ready. I can't believe the same dude that directed Thor. LOL.

[36:47] Brianna Jones: I can't believe the dude that directed Thor. LOL.

[36:52] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, because this is the same director, Kenneth Branagh, who did the 2006 version directed the first Thor movie.

[36:58] Brianna Jones: Okay. Honestly, it was probably better than that first Thor movie.

[37:01] Andrew DeWolf: It was. Significantly, he knew how to direct opera and Shakespeare better than the Thor movie.

[37:06] Brianna Jones: Okay. Five stars.

[37:10] Andrew DeWolf: That is correct. I'm just feeling it today. I'm just in it with the one star five star.

[37:15] Brianna Jones: Yeah, sometimes you connect. She'll get it for the next episode, probably.

[37:20] Andrew DeWolf: Maybe. I feel so defeated. You ready, Brie?

[37:25] Brianna Jones: I am. One more for each of you.

[37:30] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, thank God. Okay. This is that shit right here, mate.

[37:35] Brianna Jones: Five stars.

[37:39] Andrew DeWolf: That is correct.

[37:42] Brianna Jones: Andrew.

[37:45] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. Netflix, Blu-ray.

[37:49] Brianna Jones: Okay. I mean, there's not a lot to go on there. Maybe they got it on a Netflix Blu-ray.

[37:54] Andrew DeWolf: I'm going to give it one star because that's got to be a bad experience.

[37:58] Brianna Jones: That is correct. And Andrew, by a long shot, you have won reviews today. Go, Andrew. I'm so proud of you. I'm not usually in it like that, but just I was just feeling it today, I guess.

[38:05] Jess McAnally: You should go play like a scratchy lottery.

[38:09] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. Maybe you'll win something.

[38:13] Jess McAnally: Go play the scratchy lottery or people who eat too much birthday cake and then throw it up. Are you quoting John Mulaney?

[38:18] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, yeah. Scratchy lottery. Wait. Yeah, I am. I'm quoting a man that cheated on his wife and impregnated another woman. He's a horrible, horrible man. But I will. He will never get another cent from me.

[38:27] Jess McAnally: Dang, he's so funny, though.

[38:30] Andrew DeWolf: That standup got me through that. That specific standup got me through a really, really tough time in my life. So yeah, Louis C.K.'s standup helped me get through rough times. And you know what? I don't listen to him anymore because he jacked off in front of a bunch of women.

[38:41] Jess McAnally: Well, I think that's a lot worse than the jerk in his magic flute. Let's go.

[38:49] Andrew DeWolf: Hey, guys, sorry to interrupt you in the middle of the show, but we've got a show at you. Andrew, tell them a little bit about Patreon, what's going on over there and a little bit about our merch, too.

[38:54] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, Patreon is where you go if you want to support us and get a little bit extra content in the process. We got video versions of all of our episodes. We got commentary tracks. I mean, we just did Camp Rock one and two.

[39:02] Jess McAnally: Yes. And also, I think by the time we do this, we will be doing a special commentary on a goofy movie featuring Ethan from Sideways.

[39:02] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, we got merch as well. I mean, we got T-shirts, we got stickers. What else we have? We got buttons. I literally have buttons right here, right there. Yeah, we got some good stuff.

[39:09] Andrew DeWolf: Oh yeah, that's going to be a great time. It'll definitely be better than our Camp Rock two one where we just talked about Breaking Bad the entire time.

[39:15] Jess McAnally: Here's a fun fact. There's a chance for any patron to make money if they just listen to that commentary. Like I slid it in there. Yeah. So you could technically if you're the lucky one, you could get some Patreon for free, basically. Just yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you listen to that. Collect that money. And also about our merch, Andrew.

[39:15] Andrew DeWolf: That's some good stuff. Check out our merch. Where's our merch at? I know we have it on somewhere.

[39:19] Jess McAnally: If you go to musicalswithcheese.com and click merch, you can get there.

[39:22] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah! Check that out, because we actually have some really good stuff, and we don't promote it enough.

[39:26] Jess McAnally: Yeah, I honestly think we do pretty good in our merch. I feel like they're high quality, and I tend to make sure that they're at a cheap rate.

[39:31] Andrew DeWolf: I wear my shirt. It's not the one with my face on it, because I felt a little too egotistical, but it's what's your cheese rating, you know? That's a good one.

[39:42] Jess McAnally: That is honestly probably my favorite design of our shirts.

[39:46] Andrew DeWolf: I think of all of our merch, that's probably my favorite piece.

[39:50] Jess McAnally: My favorite is my hoodie.

[39:52] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, we need to get you another hoodie.

[39:54] Jess McAnally: Yeah, she ruined the last one.

[39:55] Andrew DeWolf: Did she? What?

[39:56] Jess McAnally: What did I do?

[39:57] Andrew DeWolf: No, I'm just making stuff up for a fun story. I don't know. I'm just saying shit. This is a podcast. It's not for...

[40:04] Jess McAnally: Honestly, though, I think when we did our headshots or our photos, I think I left it in your car, Jess.

[40:11] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, maybe. Maybe. I might need to get that back.

[40:14] Jess McAnally: Damn, that was so long ago.

[40:15] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, it was.

[40:16] Jess McAnally: Long ago, it seems so long ago, how young and innocent we were.

[40:21] Andrew DeWolf: Okay.

[40:22] Jess McAnally: Also, if you're on Patreon, you get a discount on all merch.

[40:26] Andrew DeWolf: I feel like I don't promote this enough.

[40:28] Jess McAnally: You do get a discount on merch at a certain level. So it all ties back together.

[40:32] Andrew DeWolf: Doubly worth it. And who's supporting us, Jess?

[40:35] Jess McAnally: Our current patrons are...

[41:05] Jess McAnally: Chai Tea Cup

[41:06] Jess McAnally: Katie McDonough

[41:07] Jess McAnally: Timothy Keys

[41:09] Jess McAnally: Chris Marcotte

[41:10] Jess McAnally: Meemoo

[41:11] Jess McAnally: Keegee

[41:12] Jess McAnally: Marie Anastasio

[41:14] Jess McAnally: Layla R.J. Norieja

[41:16] Jess McAnally: Charlie B.

[41:17] Jess McAnally: Patrick T. Ring

[41:19] Jess McAnally: Avery Brinston

[41:21] Jess McAnally: Bjorn Hermans

[41:23] Jess McAnally: Erika S.

[41:24] Jess McAnally: Teriana Frazier

[41:25] Jess McAnally: Sammy The Most Lopez

[41:28] Jess McAnally: Lyanna Morton

[41:30] Jess McAnally: Angela Kaylee Blazier

[41:32] Jess McAnally: BirdBand69

[41:34] Jess McAnally: Cinemageddon Reviews

[41:36] Jess McAnally: Villainous Miss Sofiana Ali

[41:38] Jess McAnally: The Omega Geek

[41:40] Jess McAnally: Katrina Evans

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[41:58] Jess McAnally: They all give us a lot of extra financial support that helps us keep the lights on here at Musical Switchy.

[42:02] Andrew DeWolf: If you would like to support them and get tons of fun perks, such as page-only commentaries, our episodes a day early, or even earlier, come join us over at Patreon.

[42:09] Jess McAnally: Also, as we do, we are reading all of our reviews that we get in the future, and emails. We got this very nice email just this morning, and I wanted to read it. Are you guys ready?

[42:19] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, go ahead.

[42:20] Jess McAnally: Um, this is from Janine. Um, they say,

[42:24] Jess McAnally: Hello Musical Switchies! I'm always late to the game. I only started listening to the podcast this week, and one of the first searches was for Broadway stuff. When your podcast came up, my first thought was, Let me listen to the Dear Evan Hansen episode. If the- Let's see if those guys have anything to say about this musical. Then this podcast- Oh, if they have anything good to say about this musical, this podcast is not for me. I was so gratified to hear the venom that you spewed at this garbage musical. I am now a subscriber. And then to think of everything that befell Great Comet. I still have trouble listening to anything that Cynthia Erivo is on, just because of her role of getting Great Comet to close. It doesn't matter that she sings like a damn angel. Anyway, keep up the good work, Janine.

[43:04] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I mean-

[43:06] Jess McAnally: Thank you, Janine! If we want to be known for anything, it's the Dear Evan Hansen hatred.

[43:09] Andrew DeWolf: I will say-

[43:13] Jess McAnally: That shit deserves it.

[43:14] Andrew DeWolf: I don't want to, like, jerk ourselves off too much. I don't want to break my arm jerking ourselves off.

[43:19] Jess McAnally: But we kind of did that before it was cool to do that.

[43:23] Andrew DeWolf: We were kind of on that train back when it was kind of an edgier thing to talk about.

[43:28] Jess McAnally: Well, it became cool to hate it when the movie came out, I think.

[43:31] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[43:32] Jess McAnally: But I remember when we first posted that episode, we got a lot of pushback. A lot of people really did not like what we had to say.

[43:39] Andrew DeWolf: It was like, every other day, it was just another message telling us to kill ourselves because of it.

[43:46] Jess McAnally: You know, and we didn't listen.

[43:48] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, we kept-

[43:49] Jess McAnally: Nevertheless, we persisted.

[43:51] Andrew DeWolf: We kept hating it.

[43:54] Jess McAnally: And say what you will, our opinions have not changed on most of our ideas.

[43:59] Andrew DeWolf: Except rent.

[44:00] Jess McAnally: Sometimes.

[44:01] Andrew DeWolf: I feel like we did rent dirty, and I feel like we need to redo our Hedwig episode sometime in the future. Maybe with a special guest if we can get that.

[44:09] Jess McAnally: I still don't like rent, but maybe we're too harsh.

[44:13] Andrew DeWolf: I think we just didn't put the context in.

[44:16] Jess McAnally: Either way, let's get back to the Magic Flute.

[44:19] Andrew DeWolf: Louis C.K.'s Magic Flute.

[44:21] Jess McAnally: Yes.

[44:23] Andrew DeWolf: So, operas are weird, and there isn't really songs.

[44:33] Jess McAnally: No, there isn't.

[44:35] Andrew DeWolf: There are moments that feel like songs, if that makes sense. Like the opening number where the prince is being attacked by this serpent monster. It feels epic. It represents what's going on properly.

[44:49] Jess McAnally: Yes, but is it a song?

[44:51] Andrew DeWolf: I don't think any of them are songs, really.

[44:54] Jess McAnally: There are arias in here, though.

[44:55] Andrew DeWolf: There are proper arias and proper duets. And it does push story forward. They aren't just singing until they're done and then moving on with the plot.

[45:04] Jess McAnally: Yeah.

[45:05] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know. You didn't particularly latch onto the story, but you said you really dug the music.

[45:12] Jess McAnally: It's just kind of like three hours of just good classical music. And then, of course, you have the one part that everyone knows.

[45:22] Andrew DeWolf: Well, the one part that was sent into space.

[45:25] Jess McAnally: Yeah, let's talk about that. I think that's the song that everyone wants us to say something about, because if anyone's heard of the Magic Flute, well, they may have even heard of this song and not even know what it's from, honestly.

[45:35] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, if you hear the English title...

[45:38] Jess McAnally: I would sing it, but we can't.

[45:40] Andrew DeWolf: Do you know what the English title is?

[45:43] Jess McAnally: No.

[45:44] Andrew DeWolf: Hell's Vengeance Boils in My Heart is the title of that aria. There's not even really lyrics to most of it.

[46:16] Jess McAnally: The most famous part is actually just very high-pitched sounds, basically.

[46:21] Andrew DeWolf: Vocal sounds.

[46:22] Jess McAnally: Yeah, she'll say, like, I want to burn the world down. And then she does that for about four minutes. Like, I want to bring down him.

[46:30] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, that's pretty much it, but it's really good. And written for a very specific vocalist. Once again, I know we said this earlier, Mozart wrote this for his sister-in-law. The specific things that he knew her voice could do, which is why it is one of the most difficult things to perform.

[46:50] Jess McAnally: And imagine how high that you have to sing this song, almost whistle-toning, without a microphone. Microphones did not exist. It's just wild to me.

[47:01] Andrew DeWolf: I can understand why this got a bunch of encores. It's gotta be a really tough one to sing consistently, because it's very, very high. And those fast...

[47:15] Jess McAnally: That's not easy to do either.

[47:17] Andrew DeWolf: No, even just in a lower register. I know it's like us talking about the Mona Lisa and being like, oh my god, it's actually pretty good, guys. Guys, this one looked like it was pretty hard to paint.

[47:33] Jess McAnally: I don't know what else to say. I'm not a music critic.

[47:36] Andrew DeWolf: We're not that kind of style. We are taking on the content at face value and embracing the things we latch on to. And like the rest of the world, we latched on to the most iconic, most difficult piece of music maybe ever written in the... what is it? 18th century? Late 18th century?

[47:55] Jess McAnally: This Mozart guy, I've not heard of him, but he's definitely good at writing music.

[48:01] Andrew DeWolf: Too many notes, which is a line from the Amadeus movie. You should watch that movie, Andrew. I think you'd really like it.

[48:12] Jess McAnally: What other connections to Mozart do you have outside of this, sincerely?

[48:15] Andrew DeWolf: Really not much.

[48:17] Jess McAnally: Not even like his Die Serie, his Requiem, or anything like that?

[48:20] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, I know the songs, but I don't have a connection to them or anything. It's just famous classical music. And I probably attributed pieces from Haydn to him or something like that. Like, oh, this was Mozart. Oh, wait, no, it's not. You know, I'm a plebeian. I'll admit it.

[48:40] Jess McAnally: What does that mean to you?

[48:42] Andrew DeWolf: What's a plebeian?

[48:44] Jess McAnally: Uneducated, unwashed masses. Doesn't know what he's talking about. Just likes the mainstream shit when it comes to that kind of stuff. Refers to all orchestra music as classical music because the classical era is just all of it, right?

[49:01] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, I want to bring this up, because knowing you, seeing what you look like, and your vibe on this podcast, one of the most shocking revelations, I think as we've done, what, 210 episodes of the show roughly at this point, is that you are a big defender of classical music, and big music in general. You are not like, modern is better, because you are a very specific kind of guy that wasn't into musical theater before we started this, but also had a deep respect for music.

[49:30] Jess McAnally: I think classical music is very good. I think that there is a lot of issues with the community surrounding it, with their worship of very particular pieces, and very particular composers, and not being willing to look into anything outside of that a lot of times. I don't think it's a coincidence that they're all white men as well. But, that being said, I think there's a lot of great music in here, and I don't like that classical music is often just a stand-in for, this person is a stuffy idiot, you know, in modern media.

[50:05] Andrew DeWolf: I remember in our Next to Normal episode, that was like a big sticking point for you, like jazz versus classical music.

[50:10] Jess McAnally: Yeah, it's like, well, if you like classical, you're just a stuffy piece of shit, you know? You're like the most boring person ever to exist. It's like, okay, whatever. I mean, I guess, classical music is great to me because it's the one kind of music that doesn't age. Like, this still feels at home with most music today, like the Magic Flute, meaning.

[50:33] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I think...

[50:34] Jess McAnally: And Andrew Lloyd Webber's music, musical theater, ages like fucking milk because he's always trying to fit with whatever's cool at that moment. Katz is still using that shitty synthesizer sound that was dated when it came out.

[50:48] Andrew DeWolf: I will say, the two musicals that don't use that sound, that kind of work and has become timeless, is Jesus Christ Superstar and Evita, and maybe a tiny bit Phantom, but it still has a lot of, like, 80s rock to it that I kind of disregard as, like, timeless, but still very good, where Jesus Christ Superstar is dated not because of its music, but because of its lyrics, because it says, what's the buzz? 500 times. And if that doesn't scream 1970s to you, I don't know what does.

[51:18] Jess McAnally: Yeah, on that note, I'm glad we watched this. It's a thing. I wish I could understand what the fuck was happening, and I wish I understood opera more, but I just don't. I wish I had known there was a recording of a Super Mario version before this happened, because I just 100% would have forced Andrew to watch that. That would have been absolutely hilarious.

[51:39] Andrew DeWolf: I would have maybe been able to figure out what was happening if they were all Mario characters. Maybe.

[51:46] Jess McAnally: That's still... I'm not sure I would have followed it.

[51:49] Andrew DeWolf: I'm immediately confused by the presence of Zelda and Link in it. It's just, hey, there's Nintendo people.

[51:56] Jess McAnally: I mean, Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Jr. appear to also be in it.

[52:00] Andrew DeWolf: That's not Donkey Kong Jr., that is Diddy Kong, you fuckin' uncultured plebe.

[52:04] Jess McAnally: I looked at the pictures, and I'm seeing Donkey Kong Jr. I'm watching the video, and I am seeing Diddy Kong.

[52:11] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, no, they're both there. They're both in it.

[52:13] Jess McAnally: So we're both right.

[52:17] Andrew DeWolf: We're both correct. They're both there.

[52:21] Andrew DeWolf: Our Toad and not the three boys. Who else do we have in here? We got Mega Man. OK, OK. Mario is Papageno, which is weird. And Link is the prince. OK, that's interesting. I think this is just a Nintendo thing, I think. Yeah, I'm seeing the guy from Contra. It looks like Mega Man, Ryu. This looks like the Street Racer guy, which I don't think that's even from a video game. I don't know. I'm lost a little bit in this. They made the queen of the night the fucking girl Ganondorf, girl Ganondorf. Oh, no, I don't know. Like, she looks like Princess Fiona, but I'm pretty sure they're going for a girl Ganondorf. Look, this was a really clever way to trick gamers into watching an opera, but I don't think they'd understand what the fuck's happening.

[53:12] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, yeah. You know, though, you got to trick gamers into watching stuff because they won't otherwise.

[53:18] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. I mean, how do you think they got them all to fucking watch Alita Battle Angel? They told them that it wasn't woke nonsense, and then they all went to go see that piece of shit. And it was woke nonsense, fucking got tricked.

[53:31] Jesse McAnally: What movies are woke nonsense? Sincerely, like movies aren't or are are.

[53:36] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, I mean, all of them. You know, Hollywood, they're all woke except for the Daily Wire movies. Those are fantastic.

[53:43] Jesse McAnally: Ben Shapiro makes the best fucking movies.

[53:45] Andrew DeWolf: I don't think that's true.

[53:47] Jesse McAnally: No, I'm speaking truth to power right now. Ben Shapiro has never taken out student loans or any loans of any kind.

[53:55] Andrew DeWolf: Well, and if he did, he would never have them forgiven. He would always pay them back because when you take out a loan, you pay it back.

[54:01] Jesse McAnally: Yeah. The fact that Biden's just embracing socialism this way. It's unreal. Socialism is when you're in debt and the government helps you pay a loan. You know who the real dark witch queen is? Joe Biden.

[54:14] Andrew DeWolf: Dark Brandon.

[54:16] Jesse McAnally: Wait, wait, wait. What if there was like a fucking version of the Magic Flute made by conservatives where they made Hillary Clinton the witch queen and then they made Donald Trump the like sun god because he's, you know.

[54:30] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, that is brilliant.

[54:34] Jesse McAnally: And it's like the exact type of thing they would do because and then it'd be awful and it'd be performed horribly. But they'd be like, no, we're single person could sing their opera because opera. This is how it really happens.

[54:46] Andrew DeWolf: Well, conservatives are incapable of doing real art, you know, so it wouldn't actually happen.

[54:51] Jesse McAnally: But their worldview prevents them from actually putting effort into anything artistic.

[54:55] Andrew DeWolf: So, you know, I disagree. When Clint Eastwood put a chair in front of him and pretended it was Obama, that was real art, in my opinion, possibly one of the funniest things a conservative has ever done.

[55:09] Jesse McAnally: On that note, what is your overall thoughts on the Magic Flute and your cheese rating? Andrew, why don't you start?

[55:14] Andrew DeWolf: The Magic Flute is old as fuck and it sounds good. And the singing is hard. I can't sing the songs. Can you sing the songs? I don't think so. So, you know, it's good to listen to. I don't fucking know what's happening, though. Maybe find a version in English that doesn't take place in a hotel. I don't fucking know. But listen to Durr, Hull, Roche, Cote and Myman Herzl. That's a really good song.

[55:42] Jesse McAnally: Andrew, I think you should have put that through a translator and then made sure that you pronounced it correctly before jumping on this podcast. Honestly, you are just so unprofessional. And this podcast makes me cringe.

[55:53] Andrew DeWolf: Hell's vengeance boils in my heart.

[55:58] Jesse McAnally: Mine, too. I was trying to figure out a good cheese rating. I stumbled across an article of Swiss scientists playing music to cheese.

[56:07] Andrew DeWolf: What the fuck? Please explain this, because I saw this too. It didn't even help me find a cheese rating. But I think like the specific cheese they used.

[56:16] Jesse McAnally: It's Swiss cheese. So they took Swiss cheese and they played different types of music to it, including the Magic Flute, which I assume they probably just played the Queen of the Night song over and over again. Led Zeppelin's Stairway to Heaven and a hip hop, a tribe called Quest Jazz. We've got a hip hop one. So they listen to these. The cheese listened to these for 24 hours, just looping. Endlessly.

[56:41] Andrew DeWolf: And I don't even like I don't understand what they were trying to prove that different playing different types of music for cheese to listen to would change the taste. And they said that hip hop music had the most change in taste to the cheese.

[56:58] Jesse McAnally: OK, so I guess the most government's money is going.

[57:01] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, this is like they've already completed everything else. So they're like, well, let's see what music tastes like. We got to spend Nazi money somehow.

[57:11] Jesse McAnally: So I guess I'm going to give it Swiss cheese that has listened to the Magic Flute for 24 hours on a loop because that is a real thing. Wild, wild enough. It's a true thing that has happened. You know, we couldn't make that shit up. We couldn't we couldn't just pull that out of our ass.

[57:31] Jesse McAnally: All right, Bri, what about you? What's your overall thoughts on our discussion and your cheese rating?

[57:35] Brianna Jones: Your discussion made my head spin. I can follow along pretty well. But today I was like, what the fuck is going on in this musical? I looked up a synopsis of it. Still kind of didn't understand. Was it like this? Was it like by Jeeves where you tried really hard to explain that plot to you and just wasn't sticking? It was like that was probably the last time I felt like this on that. This podcast was like, what the hell are they even talking about?

[58:00] Andrew DeWolf: So if I was to watch a version, it would probably be the Mario version, because that would probably keep my interest the longest.

[58:07] Brianna Jones: And I'm going to give Mario singing. Exactly. Man, I'm bored. Look at Mario go. I'm going to give this a what I think is pronounced Shardinger Shardinger. I know I can't say it. Mozart cheese.

[58:27] Jesse McAnally: You should really have someone translate that for you before you say it on the podcast, because really, it makes you look unprofessional and gross. And you should think trying some Mozart cheese.

[58:35] Brianna Jones: OK, it's Mozart cheese. 50% people think we are the Joe Rogan podcast. We got no budget for this shit. We literally listen to the show four hours ago. Char Mozart cheese. Mozart cheese. 10 out of 10. I like this show a lot. I watched a lot of versions of it, though. It's probably ingrained into my brain what this plot is because I spent a lot of time trying to figure it out. It isn't the easiest thing to follow, but I don't think at the end of the day it matters because the score is really good. I will probably relisten to the show quite often. It's good background music. If I recommend any version, I will recommend the Julie Taymor version because that's in English. But I prefer Stephen Fry's translation of the lyrics for the Kenneth Branagh film adaptation and the Kenneth Branagh film adaptation is just one of those a guy that knows how to shoot a musical number. Let's just say that Kenneth Branagh knows how to shoot a musical number and just embrace how weird it is.

[59:33] Andrew DeWolf: And straight. OK, I know no one gives a shit, but that film was shot for BBC television in 2005, released in 2006. It did not get a physical release until 2013. I don't know why that's so wild to me, but it's fucked up. But my cheese rating is a Greek delicacy called a cheese flute, or it's like these cannolis with cheese in it. And you dip into beer, beer cheese. So you take cheese and you put more cheese on it. Yo, dog, I heard you like cheese. So I took your cheese and put cheese into your cheese. Are those jokes still good in a flute?

[1:00:05] Jesse McAnally: No. Can I just read something off of the Wikipedia for Magic Flute? Just really quickly, you know, just to cover our ass a little bit, because, you know, I think people are going to be upset that we didn't understand what was happening very well or we didn't explain it properly or whatever. I'm sure we are. I can't wait for the comments already. This is from the Wikipedia page for the libretto of the Magic Flute. It is not uncommon for critics to describe the libretto of the Magic Flute as being of dreadful quality. The libretto has been generally regarded as one of the most absurd specimens of that form of literature in which absurdity is regarded as a matter of course. So I think what they're trying to say is it doesn't usually make that much sense. So we just justified our entire episode.

[1:00:51] Andrew DeWolf: And you know what else justifies our entire episode, Andrew?

[1:00:53] Jesse McAnally: What? Our wonderful patrons. Thank you guys for listening. Please follow us on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher and Musicals with Cheese. We're on Twitter at Cheesy Musicals, Patreon Musicals with Cheese, Instagram Musicals with Cheese. We have a YouTube page at Musicals with Cheese. We have a Patreon only podcast called Patreon with Cheese. Shoot us an email at musicaltheatrelivesandgmail.com. We will read it on the podcast as seen in our mid show. Our keeper of the cheese is the one Juliet Antonio. You are the fucking bomb, Juliet. We're lucky to have you. Woo!

[1:01:22] Jesse McAnally: This show is produced by the wonderful, the incredible, one of my best friends, and tomorrow is her birthday. So whatever you're listening to this, just send her a random message saying it's happy birthday, Brianna Jones. Twenty seven, guys. Twenty seven.

[1:01:39] Brianna Jones: Hey, happy birthday to you.

[1:01:44] Jesse McAnally: I'm going full Skylar White on you.

[1:01:46] Andrew DeWolf: That was an uncomfortable scene. Which one?

[1:01:48] Jesse McAnally: We're not talking about Breaking Bad, though, now. Not not here. We save that for Patreon. Only for Patreon. If you want to hear our Breaking Bad stuff. It's all contained in Camp Rock, too.

[1:01:56] Andrew DeWolf: OK, I do want to say I was going to bring up Breaking Bad for a Goofy movie because every character in a Goofy movie has a Breaking Bad parallel. Pete is obviously Hank. Goofy is Walter White. Jesse Pinkman is Max. PJ is obviously Badger or. And then you also have Roxanne, who is Jane. And yeah, there's like so many parallels. And I just imagine that being the Breaking Bad characters. Now, I want a Breaking Bad remake with the cast of a Goofy movie. Gus is obviously Mickey Mouse.

[1:02:30] Jesse McAnally: We can't do this, Jess. We can't do it.

[1:02:33] Andrew DeWolf: You can see it, though, right?

[1:02:35] Jesse McAnally: I don't want to do it, Jess. We already did it with Camp Rock. We already had Walter White win the final jam, OK? We can't go any further than that.

[1:02:44] Andrew DeWolf: That is one of our funniest, most absurd commentaries. And no one will fucking listen to it because it takes so long for us to just give up and just do breaking bad stick for the rest of the fucking recording.

[1:02:58] Jesse McAnally: We literally just stopped caring at all. It's like nobody gives a fuck about this movie. We just did a whole bit about Breaking Bad and Walter White joining the final jam and Jesse finding out it's rigged. It was such a good time.

[1:03:11] Andrew DeWolf: It was rigged the whole time. Gus Spring was always going to win.

[1:03:14] Jesse McAnally: So I should have joined.

[1:03:16] Andrew DeWolf: You really should have, Bree. You really sincerely should have. We had nothing to say about Camp Rock to camp. I mean, except for that, they killed that.

[1:03:25] Jesse McAnally: They killed that dude.

[1:03:28] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, there is a character they set up and they just kill and he never shows up again. Literally, they set him up and then a tire falls off a bus and like rolls down a cliff. It shows him running after the tire and that's the last shot of him. And then the bus falls down the cliff along with the tire.

[1:03:45] Jesse McAnally: So he died.

[1:03:46] Andrew DeWolf: So it's only I feel like the only assumption you can make because you never see him again after that is the bus crushed him. Cinematic language dictates he is a dead person now.

[1:03:57] Jesse McAnally: He's literally dead. Listen to our Camp Rock 2 commentary over at Patreon, guys. Thank you to the Broadway Podcast Network for having us on the platform and for not kicking us off for talking too much about Breaking Bad. Our theme songs were created by the amazing Robin Nash of IOU Music UK. Thank you, Robin.

[1:04:15] Andrew DeWolf: And please, Commissioner, she does really good work.

[1:04:18] Jesse McAnally: All right. Anything else we got to say before we wrap this up?

[1:04:21] Andrew DeWolf: I don't understand opera, and I don't think I ever will.

[1:04:23] Jesse McAnally: Well, we got a lot more to cover. Sadly, I know there's a couple others that we have commissioned by patrons. Well, hopefully they make more sense of the Magic Flute. I will say that I think that 2022 for Musicals with Cheese is going to be the year of movie musicals and operas. At least we're differentiating ourselves from our preview. Like we're moving on. We're not just going to do Sondheim all year. It's operas with cheese, baby.

[1:04:51] Andrew DeWolf: Do you think we'll do anything ever important enough to be shot into space like the Queen's aria in this that that was shot in space for the.

[1:05:01] Jesse McAnally: All right. We'll see you next time on Musicals with Cheese.