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[0:00] Jess McEnally: Hey, today's show is brought to you by Audible.

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[0:23] Jess McEnally: Uh just go to Audibletrial.com slash musicals with cheese.

[0:23] Jess McEnally: I repeat, Audibletrial.com slash musicals with cheese.

[0:32] Jess McEnally: Alright, let's get on to the actual show.

[0:37] Jess McEnally: Hello, I'm Jess McEnally.

[0:40] Andrew DeWolf: And I'm Andrew DeWolf.

[0:41] Jess McEnally: And welcome to Musicals with Cheese, a podcast where I try to get Andrew to like musical theater.

[0:46] Jess McEnally: How are you today, Andrew?

[0:48] Andrew DeWolf: I am doing very well. How are you doing, Jess?

[0:50] Jess McEnally: You know what? I am just not great.

[0:53] Andrew DeWolf: And why is that, Jess?

[0:54] Jess McEnally: I'm just enjoying my day, and then I hear a house falls out of the blue and lands on my sister.

[1:00] Andrew DeWolf: And then some little brat comes and steals the shoes right off her corpse.

[1:04] Andrew DeWolf: You know, Jess, that sounds wonderful. I'm just curious. What musical did we take a look at this week?

[1:10] Jess McEnally: Uh I believe we watched the uh the classic film Wizard of Oz this week, if I remember correctly.

[1:16] Andrew DeWolf: Oh no, no, no, no, no, no. Andrew, you did that on your own. We're actually covering um Stephen Schwartz's's Wicked.

[1:24] Jess McEnally: Wicked.

[1:26] Andrew DeWolf: Oh man, I'm totally unprepared for this. I didn't watch it.

[1:29] Jess McEnally: Oh no!

[1:31] Andrew DeWolf: Not one more!

[1:34] Jess McEnally: No one cries, they won't return.

[1:37] Andrew DeWolf: No one is a wicked man spawns the wicked!

[1:45] Jess McEnally: So Wicked is a Broadway musical with music and lyrics by Stephen Schwartz's and a book by Winnie Holzman. It is based on the 1995 Gregory Maguire novel Wicked: The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West, a retelling of the 1939 MGM film, The Wizard of Oz.

[2:00] Jess McEnally: The musical is told from the perspective of the witches in the Land of Oz. Its plot begins before and continues after Dorothy Gale's arrival in Oz from Kansas.

[2:08] Jess McEnally: It includes several references to the 1939 film and Baum's novel. Wicked tells the story of two unlikely friends, Elphaba, the Wicked Witch of the West, and Glinda, who later changes her name to Glinda the Good Witch, who struggle through opposing personalities and viewpoints, rivalry over the same love interest, reactions to the Wizard's corrupt government, and ultimately Elphaba's public fall from grace.

[2:31] Jess McEnally: So Wicked premiered on Broadway at the Gershwin Theater in October of 2003, after completing a pre-Broadway tryout at San Francisco's Curran Theatre in May and June of 2003.

[2:48] Jess McEnally: The original Broadway production won three Tonys and six Drama Desk Awards, while its original cast album received a Grammy.

[2:55] Jess McEnally: And Wicked officially surpassed the one billion dollar mark in total Broadway revenue, joining both Phantom of the Opera and The Lion King as the only Broadway shows to ever do so.

[3:07] Jess McEnally: In July of twenty seventeen, Wicked surpassed the Phantom of the Opera as Broadway's second highest grossing show, trailing only The Lion King.

[3:14] Andrew DeWolf: So it's got a lot of popularity behind it.

[3:19] Jess McEnally: Um yeah, I think it's one of the more famous Broadway. Like when you think Broadway, you think Wicked.

[3:26] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, people say Wicked.

[3:27] Andrew DeWolf: Uh surprisingly, I really hadn't heard very much of the music from this or knew much of the plot at all. So I was kind of uh surprised by some of it going into it.

[3:38] Jess McEnally: So I'm curious, Andrew, as someone that walked into this with your only connection to this really being um Twisted, um what are your general thoughts of it as like walking out?

[3:49] Andrew DeWolf: Because you pretty much just watched this.

[3:52] Andrew DeWolf: It's it's a it's very interesting. The music is very good, obviously.

[3:56] Andrew DeWolf: Um not gonna say anything bad about the music because it's fantastic.

[4:00] Andrew DeWolf: The plot is a little more fanfiction-y than I was expecting, to be honest.

[4:06] Andrew DeWolf: Um It wasn't bad, but uh it certainly doesn't like with Twisted, I almost I almost consider that canon now.

[4:17] Andrew DeWolf: Whereas with Wicked, I feel like I can't I I won't go back and watch Wizard of Oz and be thinking about this.

[4:23] Andrew DeWolf: Uh I'll be like, well, that's something else entirely. You know.

[4:27] Jess McEnally: Now why do you think you have that disconnection? And since Wicked's come out in 2003, there have been a ton of ripoffs of it, including like Maleficent and Twisted, of course.

[4:39] Jess McEnally: Like, how do you feel this holds up compared to those?

[4:42] Andrew DeWolf: Well, I think this holds up fine. It's just uh like it feels more like uh a fanfiction, like like I said.

[4:49] Andrew DeWolf: Like I think what it is is that the tone of it is so different from uh from the Wizard of Oz, where the Wizard of Oz everything is like magical and whimsical, but this one it's like they're going to school.

[5:02] Andrew DeWolf: It's like you know, it it's not it doesn't feel the same.

[5:05] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, it's still very much magical, and like they try very hard to keep that Oz tone by like adding crazy wordings of it like Glindify or Splendiferous and stuff like that.

[5:18] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, it's it's it's like Harry Potter compared to like Lord of the Rings or something.

[5:24] Andrew DeWolf: I I don't know. Like one of 'em is like clinical and the other is not.

[5:31] Andrew DeWolf: Like the use of magic in in Wizard of Oz is like fucking weird and random, and it doesn't really make much sense.

[5:37] Andrew DeWolf: Whereas the use of magic in this is like something that there's professors for and like it's very established uh and it's understood.

[5:45] Jess McEnally: You know, I never thought about the Harry Potter influence on this until you brought it up, but now I'm starting to see it a bit more.

[5:53] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I mean that's just something I notice, and I'm not saying this as like this is bad, I don't like it because of this.

[5:58] Andrew DeWolf: I'm saying that it's just it's different from what I expected.

[6:01] Andrew DeWolf: Because I expected it to be more like here's the Wizard of Oz story, but this is why the witch was the good guy, you know, something like that.

[6:09] Andrew DeWolf: Whereas it's more it's more like a here's my fanfiction of Wizard of Oz.

[6:16] Andrew DeWolf: Uh But I like that element of it.

[6:21] Andrew DeWolf: 'Cause I consider Wicked to be the most perfect Broadway idea there probably has been in a while.

[6:29] Andrew DeWolf: Because it's dark enough that you can be an adult and enjoy like the darker, more mature elements.

[6:35] Andrew DeWolf: It has the foot in the childlike elements by having the connection to the Wizard of Oz.

[6:39] Andrew DeWolf: No matter what, at least in America, you can walk into this and have a general idea of that's the Wicked Witch of the West, and that's Glinda, and that's all I need to know.

[6:50] Andrew DeWolf: You don't need to like read a book, you don't need to like have like an understanding of what Dear Evan Hansen is or see Spongebob.

[6:58] Andrew DeWolf: You have that, but it's also a brand new story.

[7:00] Andrew DeWolf: It's not like Frozen the musical where it's just Frozen again, but on stage.

[7:00] Andrew DeWolf: It's a brand new story, but things I already know are connected to it.

[7:09] Jess McEnally: Yeah, like it's not something like it's using a property for publicity purposes, kind of.

[7:17] Jess McEnally: And also for story purposes, but it's not doing something ridiculous like remaking the 2002 Spider-Man movie into a musical or something like that.

[7:26] Andrew DeWolf: Uh it's it's a little more original than that.

[7:28] Jess McEnally: Why would you bring that up?

[7:29] Andrew DeWolf: That's that's not relevant right now.

[7:32] Jess McEnally: Oh, it's not relevant at all.

[7:34] Andrew DeWolf: Oh okay.

[7:35] Andrew DeWolf: I mean that doesn't make it wouldn't make sense anyway, that doesn't exist.

[7:37] Jess McEnally: Yeah, that would never do that.

[7:42] Jess McEnally: So Andrew, since you're talking so much about the story and how it feels fanfiction-y, do you want to go through it really quickly without bringing up any of the songs just like hitting every basic beat?

[7:52] Andrew DeWolf: Let's just talk about the story all together.

[7:55] Jess McEnally: Alright, alright.

[7:56] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I'm I'm down.

[7:57] Andrew DeWolf: Let's do it.

[7:57] Andrew DeWolf: I want to start in the opening prologue, because I kind of that opening is one of the few flaws I I have with the show.

[8:05] Andrew DeWolf: And it's mostly just positive uphill from there.

[8:08] Jess McEnally: What's your issue with it?

[8:09] Andrew DeWolf: It's messy, and it's trying to get a lot of plot at you at once, and it feels very, very contrived and very, very like shoehorned in.

[8:23] Andrew DeWolf: Like, hello people, let me tell you the story of this person that just died very vaguely so that you guys know it, but also the audience knows it.

[8:32] Andrew DeWolf: Because it'll be important later.

[8:34] Jess McEnally: To be honest, I think it was unnecessary too.

[8:37] Jess McEnally: It's like we really didn't need to know, like, oh, she was born green.

[8:42] Jess McEnally: Like, I could kind of guess that, you know.

[8:45] Andrew DeWolf: Like I don't know.

[8:50] Andrew DeWolf: Like, I like the funeral, like, I love the idea of No One Mourns the Wicked, that opening, like parallel with Ding Dong the Witch is Dead.

[9:00] Andrew DeWolf: Like it's their own version of that.

[9:02] Andrew DeWolf: And I like that idea, and I think we could just go into that, and then she they could go back in time, and we don't need the flashback to her mom cheating on her father with a man.

[9:13] Andrew DeWolf: Like, we don't need all that information.

[9:16] Andrew DeWolf: And the fact that we have it makes it feel a little bit less sturdy of an opening, and you really need that opening to draw us in.

[9:24] Jess McEnally: Yeah, I think that would have been I think I agree with you.

[9:27] Jess McEnally: It would have been fine without the flashbacks, and it I don't think the flashbacks draw it back too much.

[9:32] Jess McEnally: Like it's fine, but it does feel a little bit like gotta get all this story out quick.

[9:37] Andrew DeWolf: And it's just to set up a twist that's really dumb.

[9:43] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, the twist is super weak.

[9:46] Andrew DeWolf: So this guy comes in and has sex with Elphaba's mom and impregnates her with Elphaba after making her drink basically a green elixir.

[9:57] Jess McEnally: That's why they that's why she's green.

[9:59] Andrew DeWolf: And that's why she's green.

[10:01] Jess McEnally: Yep.

[10:02] Andrew DeWolf: Um and then we immediately flash back in time to their school days, and we realize that Glinda and Elphaba, who is the witch of the West, do not get along.

[10:12] Andrew DeWolf: Elphaba has a sister who is paraplegic, and her father does not like Elphaba much and dotes on the paraplegic daughter.

[10:21] Jess McEnally: The whole sister in the wheelchair thing, I I thought that was kind of odd.

[10:26] Andrew DeWolf: I didn't really get the point of it.

[10:28] Jess McEnally: Um I do.

[10:29] Jess McEnally: I I'll get to that when it comes up in act two, but we'll talk about it.

[10:34] Andrew DeWolf: Okay.

[10:34] Andrew DeWolf: If that's that's what you how you feel.

[10:36] Andrew DeWolf: I feel that way, because I mean, for one, it's that way in the book, and you can't really fuck with the book too much when it adapts.

[10:44] Andrew DeWolf: And for two, it helped them out for legal reasons.

[10:44] Jess McEnally: Legal reasons.

[10:50] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, there's a lot of with the Wizard of Oz story, there's a lot of specific legal ramifications.

[10:57] Andrew DeWolf: Like the actual L. Frank Baum books are in the public domain.

[11:01] Andrew DeWolf: But there are elements of the MGM film that MGM still owns.

[11:05] Andrew DeWolf: Like the specific shade of green that the Wicked Witch can be and the wart on her chin and the ruby slippers.

[11:13] Andrew DeWolf: All of those things are owned by MGM.

[11:15] Andrew DeWolf: Like no other without permission no one no other property can use those.

[11:15] Jess McEnally: So why didn't they just get permission?

[11:24] Andrew DeWolf: Um because they thought of a workaround that was clever.

[11:28] Jess McEnally: That's fair, Jess.

[11:29] Jess McEnally: That's fair.

[11:30] Andrew DeWolf: And I think that workaround worked pretty well.

[11:33] Jess McEnally: But we'll bring that up later.

[11:34] Andrew DeWolf: So Elphaba um accidentally does magic and old lady says Madame Morrible is like, yo, that that's impressive.

[11:43] Andrew DeWolf: We could meet you up with a wizard.

[11:45] Andrew DeWolf: And that's Elphaba's goal throughout the rest of Act 1 is to meet the wizard.

[11:50] Jess McEnally: Was that her goal before she came to the school or was was it literally just because the professor wanted her to?

[11:50] Andrew DeWolf: Well she never thought it was a possibility until the professor said this is a this is what you can do.

[12:02] Andrew DeWolf: She thought she was too green.

[12:08] Jess McEnally: I mean I can't imagine it would be I had to I had to boil my joke on that one already.

[12:13] Andrew DeWolf: Fuck me.

[12:14] Andrew DeWolf: I could have saved that for something better.

[12:16] Jess McEnally: Yeah.

[12:17] Andrew DeWolf: But let's skip ahead a bit, because not much story wise happens.

[12:22] Andrew DeWolf: Um until Elphaba meets her professor, Dr. Dillamond, who is a goat man thing.

[12:26] Jess McEnally: Who is a very well spoken goat man?

[12:28] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[12:33] Andrew DeWolf: When he can talk.

[12:35] Jess McEnally: Yes.

[12:36] Andrew DeWolf: And there is a political movement in Oz trying to get the animals' um rights removed and stop them from speaking.

[12:47] Jess McEnally: Somehow that works.

[12:48] Andrew DeWolf: I guess if if they just don't talk for a certain period of time, they just forget how to.

[12:52] Jess McEnally: It's weird, but that's fine.

[12:54] Andrew DeWolf: Maybe it's maybe it's contamination in the water or something.

[12:57] Jess McEnally: The wizard's just pouring his green elixir into the water.

[13:01] Andrew DeWolf: Spoilers.

[13:01] Andrew DeWolf: What the fuck is that, anyways?

[13:04] Jess McEnally: I don't know.

[13:05] Andrew DeWolf: Green elixir.

[13:06] Andrew DeWolf: In the book, it was a little bit more date rapey.

[13:10] Jess McEnally: What the fuck it could be in that.

[13:13] Andrew DeWolf: That turns kids green.

[13:16] Jess McEnally: Food coloring.

[13:17] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know.

[13:18] Jess McEnally: Food coloring?

[13:20] Andrew DeWolf: They just didn't scrub her hard enough.

[13:23] Jess McEnally: Oh no.

[13:25] Andrew DeWolf: They could have just come right off.

[13:27] Jess McEnally: They're just like, uh, fuck it.

[13:29] Andrew DeWolf: But he's afraid he's gonna lose his voice and lose his rights, and Elphaba's like, I'll tell the wizard about this.

[13:35] Andrew DeWolf: This is a very important thing.

[13:37] Jess McEnally: Yeah, Elphaba joins PETA.

[13:39] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, she's already kind of the vice president of PETA, let's be honest.

[13:43] Jess McEnally: Well, she's not killing as many animals, but Yeah.

[13:46] Andrew DeWolf: And then Elphaba is going back to Going back to Yeah.

[13:51] Andrew DeWolf: I don't have enough information to comment on that, so we're moving on.

[13:51] Jess McEnally: We're moving on.

[13:57] Andrew DeWolf: So on our way back to her dorm room, she runs into this new character named Fiyero.

[14:02] Andrew DeWolf: Fiyero's the guy that's uh sings how about how he doesn't like school.

[14:07] Jess McEnally: Yeah, he's the Prince of the Winkies, I think is what they call him.

[14:11] Andrew DeWolf: What?

[14:13] Andrew DeWolf: Is that word they called him?

[14:14] Jess McEnally: Um, I don't think they ever called him, but he is a Winky, which is like you know the guys outside of in the original Wizard of Oz that go, ooh ew, oh those guys?

[14:26] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[14:26] Jess McEnally: Yeah, those are the Winkies.

[14:27] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[14:28] Jess McEnally: And he pretty much rules over them. That's his like domain.

[14:33] Andrew DeWolf: God damn this show it's just not weird enough to be a Wizard of Oz.

[14:39] Andrew DeWolf: He's just like a normal dude.

[14:41] Andrew DeWolf: And he's like, oh yeah, he's actually a Winky.

[14:43] Andrew DeWolf: Just letting you guys know.

[14:45] Jess McEnally: He is a Winky.

[14:46] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, okay.

[14:47] Andrew DeWolf: I didn't realize he was a Winky.

[14:48] Andrew DeWolf: That makes more sense now.

[14:50] Andrew DeWolf: That's fucking that's why when she he sends Alphabet to the castle in Act Two, that's why she has all those guards, because that's Fiero, the king of the Winky's castle.

[15:01] Jess McEnally: Why would why would those guards protect her?

[15:06] Andrew DeWolf: Because their master told them to.

[15:08] Jess McEnally: Don't they respect the wizard over him?

[15:10] Andrew DeWolf: I mean.

[15:16] Jess McEnally: No, he's just a wizard.

[15:19] Andrew DeWolf: The wonderful he's a wonderful wizard.

[15:22] Jess McEnally: But Fiero comes in and basically convinces everyone, hey, just jerk off the rest of your life. You know, your life don't mean nothing. He kind of changes his tune on that really fast. But the important thing about this song is Alpha and Glinda become friends over the fact that Glenda was kind of a jerk about something and then makes up for it.

[15:43] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, she was just a she was being a jerk, and then she didn't like Alpha didn't realize it. Like is pretty much what happened. And then she felt bad about it because Alphabet was nice.

[16:01] Jess McEnally: So I think we all know who's the fair weather friend in this relationship. And then they have a conversation that night, um, and Alpha reveals that because of her being green, her mother chewed a bunch of like flowers that made Nessa come out premature and fucked up her legs, so now she's paraplegic.

[16:25] Andrew DeWolf: So her dad hates her for being green and forcing her mom to be paraplegic and killing her mom.

[16:33] Jess McEnally: Oh my god.

[16:35] Andrew DeWolf: Rot the sea the wizard like a Those are like a really heavy scene that I didn't really understand because they were talking about how she like had to chew I forget what they even called it.

[16:47] Jess McEnally: It was like fla white seed flowers or something like that.

[16:50] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, so it was something like that, and it's like I didn't really understand that that was what made her I thought they were like twins or something, and and she broke her legs on the way out.

[17:01] Jess McEnally: I don't know. No, it was on she's a second child, and her mother did like these like risky druggy things.

[17:12] Andrew DeWolf: And it fucked her up. I'm surprised that a lot of handy capable foundations haven't come out about against a show about how ableist it is.

[17:21] Jess McEnally: I mean, they're saying that it's a bad thing that she's paraplegic, which I would say it is a bad thing that she's paraplegic.

[17:27] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, but it doesn't mean you can't have an equally fulfilled life.

[17:31] Jess McEnally: What I'm saying is you have very few roles on a stage show for actors that happen to have the paraplegic disability.

[17:41] Andrew DeWolf: Um and then you have this one.

[17:44] Jess McEnally: Including this one.

[17:44] Andrew DeWolf: This one does not. And that's kinda w that bothers me. I d like you haven't written the script and a paraplegic person can't even play the role.

[17:52] Jess McEnally: The weird thing is though, like the paraplegic thing, it just doesn't even feel like it's that plot relevant. Like it doesn't even really need to be there. Like, it's it's just like it's kind of just pointless.

[17:59] Andrew DeWolf: It's like other other than them trying to get around whatever Lego, I I don't know how it even helps them get around that, but it might be a really inappropriate joke about how when the Wicked Witch of the West feet get like all atrophy and sucked into the house again.

[18:21] Jess McEnally: I didn't even think of that.

[18:25] Andrew DeWolf: Which would be horrible.

[18:27] Jess McEnally: Which would be really horrible. Jess, I didn't even think of that. Thank you for making that joke.

[18:31] Andrew DeWolf: It's not even a joke, though, it's just a possible idea of what they were thinking about. Alphabet and Fiero share a moment when they both save a lion cub from their cat from their classroom from being taken in captivity after Dr. Dillam and the goat man get fired.

[18:45] Jess McEnally: And then somehow that lion cub is fine. We'll figure that out later. Don't worry about that. But then Alphaba and Fiero have a moment and they're like, Oh, I wanna bang you, but they keep it in their brain.

[18:57] Andrew DeWolf: Nice.

[18:58] Jess McEnally: Nice.

[18:59] Andrew DeWolf: My wife.

[19:01] Jess McEnally: Alright, very nice. So Madame Morable comes up to Alpha and says, Hey, you're about to go see the Wizard. And Alpha's like, Oh, I'm so excited, I want to see the wizard. And Glinda's like, Can I come? And she's like, Yeah, come with me. And they go to the Emerald City.

[19:18] Andrew DeWolf: Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. It didn't take them nearly as long as they rode a train. Why didn't Dorothy ride the train?

[19:24] Jess McEnally: Who knows?

[19:26] Andrew DeWolf: Because the munchkins told her to take the road.

[19:31] Jess McEnally: No, Glinda told her to take the road.

[19:34] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, to be fair, the wizard built that road specifically for the munchkins.

[19:40] Jess McEnally: They don't have any rights, that's why they don't get a train, they get a road. Maybe if uh Dorothy chose to land in a richer part of Oz, she would have been able to take the train.

[19:47] Andrew DeWolf: So they go and they meet the wizard, and he's got this giant wizard head, and as soon as he realizes, oh no, it's Alphabet, the girl with the magic powers, he comes out and reveals what a dorky old man he is.

[19:58] Jess McEnally: I love the wizard in this.

[19:59] Andrew DeWolf: Really?

[20:01] Jess McEnally: Yeah, he's great. Especially the big head he has.

[20:04] Andrew DeWolf: Just the design of the big head or him as a character.

[20:07] Jess McEnally: The design of the big head is fantastic. And I think I've always just liked the wizard. He's just such a pathetic dude.

[20:15] Andrew DeWolf: And I'm I've always been a big fan of pathetic men.

[20:17] Jess McEnally: Is that why you hang out with me?

[20:19] Andrew DeWolf: Of course.

[20:19] Jess McEnally: And myself.

[20:22] Andrew DeWolf: Um, the wizard gives Alphabah one of the magic spell books, and she's able to read it, and no one else is.

[20:30] Jess McEnally: Oh my god.

[20:31] Andrew DeWolf: So remarkable.

[20:33] Jess McEnally: I don't understand how that works, but yeah, I guess being green.

[20:37] Andrew DeWolf: No, she's a person of both worlds.

[20:40] Jess McEnally: Is that are they implying that the magic comes from our world? Because there's really no magic here.

[20:44] Andrew DeWolf: I imagine it's like when we go onto other like the Superman rule, like he's a normal guy on his planet, but when he comes to Earth, because of like the different properties of Earth, like he seems super.

[20:55] Jess McEnally: But the wizard isn't actually a wizard, though. The wizard can't do any magic, and he's actually from here, so.

[21:01] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, that's fair.

[21:02] Jess McEnally: So basically they're saying that only half only people that are half us and half Oz are magic.

[21:10] Andrew DeWolf: Half-links, yeah.

[21:12] Jess McEnally: Also, I mean, probably being green also helps, I would assume.

[21:16] Andrew DeWolf: The green gives her the power. Kermit the Frog kind of magic. She realizes that the wizard's the one making all the animals not able to talk, and she gets mad, and she and Glinda run away, and Glinda's like, Why are you doing this? Why can't you just like go along with it?

[21:30] Jess McEnally: Uh well, uh, okay, well, I have some issues with the wizard's plan.

[21:37] Andrew DeWolf: Alright.

[21:38] Jess McEnally: What the fuck is the wizard's plan?

[21:40] Andrew DeWolf: Um, it's Bush-era politics, which is you everyone needs a good enemy.

[21:48] Jess McEnally: Yeah, but like needs a good enemy from what?

[21:52] Andrew DeWolf: I'm gonna build the wall and the animals are gonna pay for it.

[21:57] Jess McEnally: What were the issues that Oz was facing that he needed to create an enemy for them?

[22:01] Andrew DeWolf: Well, if you create an enemy, they won't rise up against you.

[22:04] Jess McEnally: I get that part.

[22:05] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, but why were they gonna rise up against him? It seems like most of them most people like him.

[22:09] Jess McEnally: I don't know. Imagine you're in a place where you got someone with a below average IQ running everything, and uh he's relatively charming, and he's southern, and he's just running things, and then he's like, Oh, they're gonna catch on to me pretty quick. Might as well blame a bunch of like specific minorities for a giant specific thing, so that all my people will turn on them, and we can start this war that's still going on today.

[22:40] Andrew DeWolf: But the animals didn't do anything wrong.

[22:42] Jess McEnally: Neither did Iraq, but we still invaded them.

[22:45] Andrew DeWolf: Alright, so Alphabet decides, you know what, I don't wanna work for this fucking wizard of Oz. This dubia of Oz, and she's like, fuck this shit. Um, I'm gonna go fly to the Western Skies. Her and Alphabet split up, and Act 1 ends with Alphaba deciding I'm gonna be evil now.

[23:06] Jess McEnally: Also Glinda.

[23:08] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, Glinda changed her name to Glinda because, you know, reasons.

[23:12] Jess McEnally: Glenn or Glinda.

[23:13] Andrew DeWolf: Glenn or Golinda.

[23:16] Jess McEnally: Oh, Glinda?

[23:17] Andrew DeWolf: Glinda or Golinda.

[23:22] Jess McEnally: It's the newest.

[23:25] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I'm I'm not too uh I'm not too big a fan of the name Glinda versus Glinda. They're kind of the same thing.

[23:36] Jess McEnally: Act two begins and Glinda is like a politician. She's pulling off her best Ava prone, and the entirety of the world is like against Alphaba. And Fiero's like, I don't wanna deal with this bullshit, and he kinda runs off. And then we cut Alphaba visiting her sister Parapoligarino Nesserose.

[23:57] Andrew DeWolf: Parapoligerino?

[23:59] Jess McEnally: That's that's I think I got that from the Simpsons movie.

[24:03] Andrew DeWolf: So Alphaba comes to beg Nesserose's help. She says, no, you've never done anything for me. And here's where you get the clever part, because in Act 1, Alphaba and Nessrose's father gave Nessa some silver slippers, just like in the book. Alphaba does a spell to help Nesserose walk, which also makes the slippers feel like they're red hot or on fire.

[24:29] Andrew DeWolf: So they do a lighting effect where they make them really hot looking ruby.

[24:35] Jess McEnally: So disp the shoes are never ruby slippers themselves, but you can do lighting on silver slippers to make them appear like ruby slippers.

[24:43] Andrew DeWolf: That is the dumbest shit I've ever heard in my life.

[24:47] Jess McEnally: Welcome to our legal system, fellas.

[24:49] Andrew DeWolf: But it worked.

[24:50] Jess McEnally: It works storytelling-wise.

[24:51] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, except for when Dorothy puts her puts him on her feet aren't hot, are they?

[24:55] Jess McEnally: They keep it vague enough that you're assuming it could work.

[24:57] Andrew DeWolf: Ah.

[24:58] Jess McEnally: And then then the sister's able to read from the book, though.

[25:01] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, I'm just assuming she was just able to like kind of gleam it, like get the generalities of it. And with that, her husband and a former high school lover, Bach, who's like desperately in love with Glenda and always has been, comes in, he's like, I'm leaving you. I'm gonna go chase after Glinda.

[25:21] Andrew DeWolf: And Nest's like, fuck you, I'm gonna make your heart disappear.

[25:25] Jess McEnally: And she does a spell to make his heart disappear.

[25:28] Andrew DeWolf: Oops, it's gone. And Alpha's like, you can't fucking undo a spell, you dumb wench.

[25:35] Jess McEnally: Yeah, so then he gets turned into a tin man. And that's one of the best reveals in the entire show.

[25:38] Andrew DeWolf: Really?

[25:43] Jess McEnally: I think it was kinda dumb. I thought I didn't see it coming on first watch, and I was like, What?

[25:47] Andrew DeWolf: Well, I didn't I didn't see it coming, but it's dumb.

[25:53] Jess McEnally: Why is it dumb?

[25:55] Andrew DeWolf: Well why the fuck would she w like I always just thought the tin man was just some dude that lived that lived in Oz.

[26:04] Jess McEnally: No, it's it no, it's a munchkin that got turned into the tin man because they had to. I think that's not far off from what happened in the book.

[26:11] Andrew DeWolf: Because what happened in the book was, um, you have this woodsman, I think he was a munchkin as well, whose axe was enchanted, and it would just start chopping off bits of his body, and he'd have to replace it with tin.

[26:24] Jess McEnally: Until he was finally just all a tin person and he couldn't love his wife anymore.

[26:29] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, that is a pretty cool story, though.

[26:31] Jess McEnally: Mm-hmm.

[26:32] Andrew DeWolf: I would make a great musical.

[26:34] Jess McEnally: Possibly one that we might do in the near future.

[26:37] Andrew DeWolf: Is that from the Oz books or from the Wicked book?

[26:40] Jess McEnally: That's from the Oz books.

[26:42] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know much about the Oz books, but from the movie, I just thought he was just some dude that was chillin'.

[26:47] Jess McEnally: Well, the thing is the musical Wicked kind of treats the movie as gospel, even throwing reference to it.

[26:54] Andrew DeWolf: Which I think is a smart move to make if you're trying to sell this to a mass-produced audience.

[27:07] Jess McEnally: So you wanna keep the witch green and all that other stuff. Keep it as close to the film as you can legally.

[27:16] Andrew DeWolf: I think the uh the issue I have and where it feels fanfiction so so fanfiction all oftentimes they'll have this thing where like the main character of the fanfiction, like they're it directly involved with every aspect of the plot.

[27:31] Jess McEnally: It's like so basically this the way this story explains it, the the witch directly creates basically every character in the Wizard of Oz.

[27:42] Andrew DeWolf: Yep.

[27:44] Jess McEnally: So it's like, okay.

[27:48] Andrew DeWolf: Uh so I I that's where I think it gets like a really fanfiction feel. It's like this feels like something from fanfiction.net.

[27:55] Jess McEnally: Uh the witch is just someone's uh self insert character.

[27:59] Andrew DeWolf: Well, she's not perfect. She makes mistakes. She's not a Mary Sue in any way.

[28:02] Jess McEnally: No, I'm not I'm not saying that. I'm not saying Mary Sue.

[28:05] Andrew DeWolf: Uh did not claim that. I'm just saying, like, this is the character who is behind everything. You just didn't know it.

[28:15] Jess McEnally: It's like, oh, my this is my my new Star Trek fanfiction. This character is named uh Andrew, and he he actually he brought the whole crew together.

[28:28] Andrew DeWolf: Yep, Captain Picard, uh, welcome to the Enterprise.

[28:33] Jess McEnally: That that's not correct.

[28:35] Andrew DeWolf: That that is wrong.

[28:37] Jess McEnally: I don't give a shit.

[28:39] Andrew DeWolf: Like, I don't know much about Star Trek, but I know that's wrong.

[28:42] Jess McEnally: I don't care. I'm just I'm just saying that having the witch be directly involved with the backstory of every character did not feel necessary to me and kind of drew me out of the story a little bit.

[28:55] Andrew DeWolf: Which is fair.

[28:57] Jess McEnally: Like she like, especially the lion thing where it like it like comes back and it's like, oh, the lion was the lion she saved earlier. It's like, why? Is there no other lions?

[29:08] Andrew DeWolf: To tie back the animal speaking thing.

[29:12] Jess McEnally: But that that lion didn't talk, and the lion the the cowardly lion does talk.

[29:16] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, but it was baby, like babies don't talk either.

[29:20] Jess McEnally: Yeah, but why would the wizard teach it how to talk if it doesn't want them to talk?

[29:24] Andrew DeWolf: Because he was released into the wild, even when you meet the lion in the film, he's like in the wild.

[29:30] Jess McEnally: Oh, whatever.

[29:32] Andrew DeWolf: Alright.

[29:33] Jess McEnally: So Madame Morable decides, you know what, we need to set a trap for Alphabet.

[29:41] Andrew DeWolf: Let me cause a tornado to come and kill her sister.

[29:45] Jess McEnally: Yeah.

[29:46] Andrew DeWolf: And all the munchkins cheer because their horrible mayor, self-appointed mayor is finally dead.

[29:52] Jess McEnally: Did they create a tornado on Earth to kill the sister?

[29:57] Andrew DeWolf: I think so.

[29:59] Jess McEnally: How did she have the power to do that?

[30:01] Andrew DeWolf: Because she controls the weather, and that's her only magic power.

[30:05] Jess McEnally: They like set that up.

[30:06] Andrew DeWolf: She controls the weather in both worlds?

[30:09] Jess McEnally: I think so.

[30:11] Andrew DeWolf: Okay.

[30:12] Jess McEnally: That's very impressive.

[30:14] Andrew DeWolf: So Alphaba, of course, comes to her site, and we get that scene from the movie where her and Glinda had that issue.

[30:21] Jess McEnally: And Glinda and Alphaba are fighting because Alphaba stole Glinda's man, Fiero.

[30:28] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[30:28] Jess McEnally: And then Dorothy's house gets towed away because she parked at a handicapped spot.

[30:33] Andrew DeWolf: Ha ha ha!

[30:36] Jess McEnally: Hey, I've been I was saving that one. I was waiting for a good time to use that.

[30:42] Andrew DeWolf: You get it?

[30:43] Jess McEnally: That's good.

[30:44] Andrew DeWolf: That was good, right?

[30:45] Jess McEnally: I really hope the audience gets that.

[30:47] Andrew DeWolf: I don't want to assume they're dumb.

[30:50] Jess McEnally: But think about it.

[30:52] Andrew DeWolf: And then and then laugh.

[30:54] Jess McEnally: I think it was a good joke. Alphaba and Glinda have a cat fight, which I think is really dumb, and it hurts me a little bit to see like, oh, these two characters who were characters on their own are now just fighting over a guy.

[31:08] Andrew DeWolf: He's hot.

[31:09] Jess McEnally: Yeah. And then he comes in, saves the day, lets Alphaba run away, and they're like, let's beat the shit out of him until he tells us where she went.

[31:19] Andrew DeWolf: Let's hang him up on a stick and beat him until he dies, or he tells us where she gone.

[31:26] Jess McEnally: Yep, but actually, he's a scarecrow.

[31:28] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, Alphaba casts a spell so he doesn't feel pain, and if they stab him and hurt him, he won't feel it, and his bones won't break and all that by turning him into a scarecrow, but we don't find that out until later.

[31:39] Jess McEnally: And then he develops some very epic dance moves, uh, and a very he's very good at acting and pretending that he's uh a completely different character in front of Dorothy and uh all those.

[31:51] Andrew DeWolf: Do you think Bach knew the scarecrow's Fiero or Fiero knew that Bach was the tin man when they met?

[31:57] Jess McEnally: I I don't know. Do you think he knew that the lion was the one that he freed?

[32:00] Andrew DeWolf: I don't think so, but that's like relevant. Like it could be any lion. Do you think that he knew that he had to keep it a secret from Dorothy of who he was, or like I mean, once once you start thinking about it like he's the scarecrow, and then you watch the Wizard of Oz, it's like this is so this is that guy?

[32:20] Jess McEnally: It's a really good at acting.

[32:24] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, they set it up like he says, like, I'm brainless, or life's more painless when you're brainless.

[32:31] Jess McEnally: And he's very good at dancing.

[32:33] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[32:33] Jess McEnally: Which is great. I mean, they set up like he is pretty impressive dancer and dancing through life.

[32:38] Andrew DeWolf: He does like dancing, so at least that's set up.

[32:41] Jess McEnally: He does dancing is set up. You know what isn't set up though? Dorothy had already started walking down the yellow brick road, right? And then they hung him up in the town next to her house.

[32:51] Andrew DeWolf: How the fuck did she run into him?

[32:54] Jess McEnally: Maybe they dumped him further down the road and they took the train.

[32:58] Andrew DeWolf: So they had to bring him to the train, take the train, go back to the yellow brick road, put him down in the field, and then start beating him.

[33:08] Jess McEnally: You never know, sir.

[33:10] Andrew DeWolf: It doesn't make sense, Jess.

[33:11] Jess McEnally: It doesn't make sense. You know what you should write the book writers and tell them that.

[33:16] Andrew DeWolf: I'm gonna tell them, hey guys, you gotta have this scene take place in a different location than so it makes any sense.

[33:24] Jess McEnally: My thought is Dorothy got lost. Dorothy got lost on the way on her way down the yellow brick road and had to turn back.

[33:30] Andrew DeWolf: She had to take a dump in the woods.

[33:32] Jess McEnally: That's how she found the scarecrow. She's like, hmm, there's only one road, but I don't know which way to go.

[33:37] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, there are forks in the road. They do set that up in the film. Like, there are several several different ways down the yellow brick road where you can go one way or the other.

[33:47] Jess McEnally: Did you know there's also a red brick road?

[33:49] Andrew DeWolf: I I learned about that at one point.

[33:51] Jess McEnally: That goes to Kmart.

[33:54] Andrew DeWolf: Where does it actually go?

[33:55] Jess McEnally: I think it actually does go somewhere.

[33:56] Andrew DeWolf: It does go somewhere, I don't know.

[33:58] Jess McEnally: I think it go might go to Ozma's place.

[34:01] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I'm I'm not sure. There's like a map of Oz or something. It's like it's like watching it's like it's like looking at uh a Lord of the Rings map and like trying to make sense of it.

[34:09] Jess McEnally: Do you want to know the most messed up thing that happens in the Wizard of Oz books?

[34:14] Andrew DeWolf: What's that?

[34:15] Jess McEnally: Okay. You've never seen Return to Oz, right?

[34:18] Andrew DeWolf: No.

[34:18] Jess McEnally: Alright, so they have this princess character named Ozma who goes missing.

[34:23] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[34:24] Jess McEnally: And she's like super important. And then we have this little boy character who we follow throughout the entire story. He meets all the characters, the wizard, all the scarecrow, TikTok, all of them.

[34:35] Andrew DeWolf: And by the end, they're like, hey little boy, you're actually a girl.

[34:39] Jess McEnally: You're Ozma.

[34:41] Andrew DeWolf: What?

[34:44] Jess McEnally: That's awesome. They're like, we're gonna have to turn you back into Ozma so we can have our kingdom back.

[34:49] Andrew DeWolf: And he's like, what? I kinda wanna be what I am right now.

[34:51] Jess McEnally: You're like, you're still what you are, but you're just gonna be a girl.

[34:55] Andrew DeWolf: And I'm just reading this as a kid. I'm like, what the fuck am I reading?

[34:59] Jess McEnally: It was published a little too early.

[35:01] Andrew DeWolf: It's the wrong kind of cringy. And there's a reason why only the first book is the one that got made into like the most memorable movie.

[35:08] Jess McEnally: Alright. Alright, little boy. You're gonna be a girl now.

[35:12] Andrew DeWolf: What?

[35:13] Jess McEnally: It wraps up with Alphaba pretending to die and being on the lamb for the rest of her life, and everyone just assuming she's dead, and her finally running off with Fiero, and Glinda and Alphaba being separated for life, and it's a kind of bittersweet ending.

[35:27] Andrew DeWolf: I'm gonna say that's a bad ending.

[35:29] Jess McEnally: I mean, in terms of nothing good happens.

[35:34] Andrew DeWolf: Literally, it's like the worst possible ending.

[35:36] Jess McEnally: At least Alphaba's alive.

[35:40] Andrew DeWolf: It might have been better if she was dead.

[35:42] Jess McEnally: In the book she does.

[35:44] Andrew DeWolf: She's dating a scarecrow.

[35:46] Jess McEnally: She's dating a scarecrow.

[35:48] Andrew DeWolf: So?

[35:49] Jess McEnally: What's wrong with that?

[35:50] Andrew DeWolf: Dude, they're made of straw. He's not gonna be able to get hard for her.

[35:54] Jess McEnally: Yeah, but it'll be the best cuddler.

[35:56] Andrew DeWolf: Oh yeah, it'll be a great cuddler.

[35:58] Jess McEnally: It's a fucking weeaboo's wet dream.

[36:00] Andrew DeWolf: A living a living pillow.

[36:03] Jess McEnally: I'll name you Senpai Scarecrow.

[36:05] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. And then uh And then Glinda is in charge, and uh I mean I I hate to say it, but she's kind of a bimbo the whole fucking the whole fucking year.

[36:16] Jess McEnally: Yes, but she says at the end that she's gonna try to be Glinda the good.

[36:21] Andrew DeWolf: Trying doesn't cut it in fucking politics.

[36:26] Jess McEnally: Does she solve the animal issue or no?

[36:29] Andrew DeWolf: Does she have enough of a backbone to do that?

[36:31] Jess McEnally: Does she care enough to do that? Does she actually disagree with the wizard's politics, or was she only pretending to disagree because her friend did?

[36:39] Andrew DeWolf: Her friend who she thinks is dead, by the way. Does Glinda have any ideas of her own or like strong morals of her own?

[36:46] Jess McEnally: No.

[36:47] Andrew DeWolf: I guess it is a it is perfect Bush era politics.

[36:51] Jess McEnally: It really is.

[36:56] Andrew DeWolf: Fuck you.

[36:58] Jess McEnally: Fuck you, man.

[36:59] Andrew DeWolf: How would you go fuck yourself?

[37:01] Jess McEnally: Glinda killed um Osama bin Laden.

[37:05] Andrew DeWolf: Um, Glinda allowed there to be marriage equality between humans and animals.

[37:11] Jess McEnally: Glinda created free healthcare throughout everyone, or at least affordable health care.

[37:16] Andrew DeWolf: Did she?

[37:17] Jess McEnally: Yes, she did.

[37:19] Andrew DeWolf: So how would you get off Glinda's dick?

[37:21] Jess McEnally: She tried her best quest um clutch to close um Guantanamo Bay.

[37:28] Andrew DeWolf: She tried really hard.

[37:30] Jess McEnally: So very, very hard.

[37:32] Andrew DeWolf: But you know what? She had um a wizardian Senate, and she couldn't get much past, even with executive orders.

[37:40] Jess McEnally: Welcome to our politics show.

[37:43] Andrew DeWolf: Actually, if we go by the books, following Glinda should be the scarecrow's regime as king.

[37:49] Jess McEnally: Well, it's fucking rise of the winkies. Let's go.

[37:51] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, he is a brainless, like, orange person running, so Rise of the Winkies, my boys. We are gonna get rid of the munchkins, and they're gonna pay for it.

[38:06] Jess McEnally: Hey guys, sorry to interrupt you in the middle of the show, but we're here to shill at you.

[38:11] Andrew DeWolf: It's time to shill, baby.

[38:12] Jess McEnally: I'm in. Today's show is brought to you by Audible. Audible is offering our listeners a free audiobook with a 30-day free trial membership.

[38:21] Andrew DeWolf: Just go to AudibleTrial.com slash musicals with cheese and browse the unmatched selection of audio programs. Download a title download a title free and start listening.

[38:31] Jess McEnally: It's that easy. Go to Audible.com slash musicals with cheese to get started today.

[38:35] Andrew DeWolf: What book do you recommend, Jess? Are you reading anything? You listening to anything?

[38:39] Jess McEnally: A good book that's on Audible is actually Wicked, The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West by Gregory McGuire, narrated by John McDowell.

[38:48] Andrew DeWolf: That's a really weird book to recommend in this episode.

[38:50] Jess McEnally: Yeah, it really makes no sense.

[38:52] Andrew DeWolf: But you know what? Audible content includes an unmatched selection of audiobooks, audio, original audio shows, news, comedy, and more from the leading audiobook publishers, broadcasters, and entertainers.

[39:03] Jess McEnally: Well, I guess if you don't want to read Wicked, which I mean I don't know why you wouldn't want to do that. Um you could read something else.

[39:12] Andrew DeWolf: But if you read Wicked, you get to find out whether or not Alphaba has a green vagina.

[39:19] Jess McEnally: Fun fact. Um that's a is that actually in the book?

[39:22] Andrew DeWolf: Yes it is.

[39:24] Jess McEnally: Okay. Does she?

[39:26] Andrew DeWolf: But wait, I don't want to spoil it for them.

[39:29] Jess McEnally: To download your free audiobook today, go to AudibleTrial.com slash musicals with cheese. Again, that's AudibleTrial.com slash musicals with cheese for your free audiobook.

[39:39] Andrew DeWolf: Excellent. That great job shilling.

[39:42] Jess McEnally: Uh have a have a great day.

[39:45] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, let's get back to the show, kids.

[39:48] Jess McEnally: The wicked Mosley. Let's talk about the opening number.

[40:09] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, we talked about it a little bit, but it's entitled No One Mourns the Wicked. I think it's a good song. I think you already mentioned some of your complaints with it story-wise, but uh, I think the song itself is very good.

[40:22] Jess McEnally: I think that's a brilliant turn on the ding dong the wicked witch is dead.

[40:28] Andrew DeWolf: Which is a classic, one of my favorites. And I think it's like surprisingly dark. Like the opening notes of bum bum bum bum bum bum are like so thrilling.

[40:40] Jess McEnally: And when you hear it live, it's like throws you to the back of the room.

[40:46] Andrew DeWolf: Well I think it's fitting, since when it opens, uh, it's like after all the shit has hit the fan already, right?

[40:54] Jess McEnally: Mm-hmm.

[40:55] Andrew DeWolf: This is this is after the fact, so what do you think of just the general idea and conceit of the song and all the story? Do you think it's done well?

[41:04] Jess McEnally: Like it reminds me a lot of Bells of Notre Dame, which is also done by Stephen Schwartz's.

[41:11] Andrew DeWolf: I think that this type of opening number is really good. You want to have like something that's uh very intriguing, so it's just like and this does the trick where it's like, oh, this is in the future, so you gotta see how this happened, basically.

[41:25] Jess McEnally: So I think it's it's uh very ear-catching and really draws you in.

[41:31] Andrew DeWolf: So I love the darker sound to it as well.

[41:34] Jess McEnally: Yeah, I feel like we don't get to this level of operatic darkness like really throughout the entire show until maybe like no good deed. If it really ever gets back to that.

[41:43] Andrew DeWolf: It's close, but never quite gets to this level of like impressive bitterness.

[41:52] Jess McEnally: Like, this is a very bitter opening number. I like it.

[41:57] Andrew DeWolf: Hell and it's such high yes.

[42:00] Jess McEnally: When people see me, they will scream.

[42:03] Andrew DeWolf: We're half a lot of favorite.

[42:09] Jess McEnally: The wizard.

[42:15] Andrew DeWolf: You want to talk about the wizard and I?

[42:18] Jess McEnally: Boy, howdy, would I like to talk about the wizard and me.

[42:21] Andrew DeWolf: I. So, did you actually hear the connection? Like, we mentioned this previously in our Dear Evan Hansen video. Um, or podcast, about how this sounds a lot like um waving through a window.

[42:35] Jess McEnally: I didn't really catch it. I wasn't listening for it though, was a thing.

[42:39] Andrew DeWolf: Like, I I really wanted to just enjoy this as it's on its own and not try to compare it to Dear Evan Hansen. Obviously. Although I will say that the the style of pretty much all of the music in this is similar to Dear Evan Hansen.

[42:53] Jess McEnally: Obviously, that's not something this did. That's Dear Evan Hansen ripping it off, but uh Well, the thing about this is this feels a little bit more theatrical, where Dear Evan Hansen feels more pop is.

[43:06] Andrew DeWolf: I think that might be the subject matter, though.

[43:08] Jess McEnally: Well, I don't remember any guitars really being used in the show.

[43:14] Andrew DeWolf: There definitely is.

[43:16] Jess McEnally: Can't think of any of them.

[43:17] Andrew DeWolf: Maybe it's just not in the forefront.

[43:21] Jess McEnally: No, there's nothing in the form front, but they definitely I mean I remember hearing some like electric guitar sounds.

[43:26] Andrew DeWolf: Alright. Well, what do you think about the wizard and I in context?

[43:29] Jess McEnally: I think it's one of the better I want songs because it's very clear and very it builds very well. I like it because it's about the wizard.

[43:38] Andrew DeWolf: Um it's about how she wants to be with the wizard, which I do as well. Um, I I think it's I think it is just really well uh it's it's hard to describe how good something is without just repeating yourself.

[43:53] Jess McEnally: If you know what I'm saying?

[43:55] Andrew DeWolf: I get that. And I think like there's some clever like double play lyrics where it's playing with what we already know about the show, like when she's like, I know one day there'll be a celebration throughout Oz that's all to do with me, where yeah, you're technically right.

[44:11] Jess McEnally: Yeah.

[44:12] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, they did already show that happening. And I think that's very clever.

[44:16] Jess McEnally: Very clever.

[44:18] Andrew DeWolf: It's not I mean it's not like super clever. It's but it's something that like it's it's something you appreciate that they did instead of just having it be kind of a you know, straight really straightforward with no wordplay or anything like that.

[44:31] Jess McEnally: And also it's really amplifies the voice of the singers that perform it. Like it's a belty song, and it is compelling. Like it's just one actress on stage throughout this entire thing, and you have to follow her through it, and that's really hard a lot of the time, because not all stage shows can pull that off. And most of the time the actresses, uh, with thanks to like the instrumentals and all that, pull it off. I think it was very good and one of the better songs in the show. Um, still enough to get paws to anyone with paws. Something bad is happening in Oz. Something bad happening in Oz. Under the surface behind the scenes, something bad. Sorry. Bad. Dr. Dillamond. Alright. Let's chat about something bad. A song between Alphabet and her teacher, Dr. Dillamond. I think it was funny.

[45:43] Andrew DeWolf: Do you think it was intentionally funny or accidentally funny?

[45:47] Jess McEnally: I feel like it's intentionally funny, I think. I mean, you don't write in a bunch of goat sounds and have it not be funny on purpose, I think.

[45:56] Andrew DeWolf: Well, I think that it starts out funny, and the fact that it happens like three to four times. Um, by the fourth time, it's like, oh, maybe this isn't funny.

[46:06] Jess McEnally: No, it was still funny.

[46:08] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, but it's also supposed to be like a serious plot point.

[46:12] Jess McEnally: Yeah.

[46:13] Andrew DeWolf: But it's funny. Do you like the song? Do you like this song?

[46:19] Jess McEnally: It's a nothing song. It's a plot song.

[46:22] Andrew DeWolf: Plot song. He doesn't like it because it's a plot song. Do you like how it sounds, Jess?

[46:27] Jess McEnally: Not really. What do you think of the song? Like, I know you think it's funny, but what do you think of like how it's... I didn't like it that much.

[46:33] Andrew DeWolf: See, it's not like it's not a memorable song. It's like when you think of Wicked, the first, like, oh, my favorite is something bad. Uh, something bad.

[46:46] Jess McEnally: No, like the only thing memorable about it is that. Like, you've got the plot element where, like, I've heard of this oxygen professor from Fox, it's no longer permitted to teach. He's lost all power of speech. Like, ah, this is important. You need to remember this.

[47:03] Andrew DeWolf: I'll teach you the proper poise when you talk to boys. Little ways to flirt underclowns. I'll show you what shoes to wear, how to fix your hair. Everything that really has to be popular. Uh, you know that I'm popular.

[47:17] Jess McEnally: Alright, let's talk about popular. This song was on the radio a lot, wasn't it?

[47:22] Andrew DeWolf: Um, they turned it into a pop song, which also very much bothers me.

[47:26] Jess McEnally: Yeah, I like I distinctly remember hearing this song a lot, and I was like, that's from this show?

[47:31] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[47:33] Jess McEnally: And this is like every like one of my friends' favorite songs from this show. It's like, oh, it's so funny, and I don't know, and I I don't dislike the song. Like when I watch it, I'm like, oh, I'm charmed by the actresses, and like this scene works, but I'm like, I don't like it that much.

[47:50] Andrew DeWolf: I'll be honest, it's like my least favorite in the whole show.

[47:54] Jess McEnally: Okay, well, one, I've heard it on the radio before, and anything that I've heard on the radio is probably not something I'm gonna have a positive impression on.

[48:00] Andrew DeWolf: Okay.

[48:01] Jess McEnally: Uh, and then on top of that, the style of it is like different than everything else. Uh, it feels like it's... well, it might be because I'm thinking of it as a pop song. It just feels like a pop song.

[48:12] Andrew DeWolf: I think the issue is that I've heard the song before I've seen the show. So it's hard for me to think about it in a plot context. I'm just thinking of it as like this is a pop song that's in the show. If that makes sense.

[48:25] Jess McEnally: It makes sense. But it fits the character. Like, I have a hard time shitting on it in the way that you do. Like, I don't actively like it, but it does fit the character.

[48:35] Andrew DeWolf: It does fit her attitude and mood, and it doesn't feel out of place in what we've set up previously.

[48:42] Jess McEnally: Yeah. But they shouldn't have made it into a pop song.

[48:47] Andrew DeWolf: I can't critique the show itself or something that happened outside of it afterward, if that makes sense.

[48:53] Jess McEnally: It hurts my impression of it though. Because I've I think, and a lot of other people may have, uh, their first time hearing the song may have been on the radio, sung by a pop singer.

[49:05] Andrew DeWolf: Some rando. It reminds me of uh fucking Fiddler on the Roof, that one song.

[49:12] Jess McEnally: If I Were a Rich Man?

[49:14] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. If I Were a Rich Girl.

[49:18] Jess McEnally: Do you think of that song is ruined for you because you've heard it previously?

[49:22] Andrew DeWolf: You know, I will say it wasn't totally ruined because the style is very different in the show. Um, whereas this one, it almost feels like exactly the same song. I actually I was I was kind of wondering throughout it if they actually just took the if like the actual cast recording became popular on the radio or something. Like I wasn't sure if it was a different thing or not. Of course I don't listen to the song that often, so yeah, don't remember it, but it was a while ago that it became popular.

[49:54] Jess McEnally: No way. Is or was an honorable. Let's get to the end of Act One with Define Gravity.

[50:16] Andrew DeWolf: Very good.

[50:18] Jess McEnally: This is a very good song. I love the song. I like it. I love the song so much. It is such an effective end to Act One, and it bothers me that I don't like it as much as I used to.

[50:32] Andrew DeWolf: And why is that?

[50:33] Jess McEnally: Because Frozen happened.

[50:36] Andrew DeWolf: What did Frozen do?

[50:38] Jess McEnally: Okay. So the original Broadway cast of this show had Idina Menzel. And it lay who later went on to play um Elsa in Frozen. She was the original Alphabet. And Let It Go is very much a pastiche on Define Gravity.

[50:53] Andrew DeWolf: Well, I mean, yeah, but there's plenty of songs that sound similar to each other.

[50:57] Jess McEnally: Yes, but it sounds similar while having the same exact actress.

[51:02] Andrew DeWolf: Okay.

[51:03] Jess McEnally: So every time I hear Define Gravity, I can't help but I can't separate it from Let It Go in my head anymore.

[51:10] Andrew DeWolf: Let it go, let it go. Is that you telling me what to do, or is that you just singing?

[51:17] Jess McEnally: Yeah, you need to fucking let it go, Jess. It's fine.

[51:21] Andrew DeWolf: Okay. At least it's not the same exact song in a different movie.

[51:26] Jess McEnally: I agree. I agree. I mean, as much as I shit on it for that reason, like when it's like nobody in all of Oz no wither that there is or was is Ava gonna bring me down. Every time that happens.

[51:42] Andrew DeWolf: Let it go. I get the shit. Shivers down my fucking back, man. And then then she starts singing Let It Go.

[51:54] Jess McEnally: Uh no, no, she doesn't, but it sounds so incredible, and I do love this song in its way, but I feel like over time it has been a little cheapened.

[52:07] Andrew DeWolf: Well, I think with a song like this where it's like um I almost want to come up with a word for it. They're like they're like power songs.

[52:15] Jess McEnally: Power ballads?

[52:16] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, kind of a power ballad kind of thing. Where it's like there's only a couple chords, uh, and it's like very, very catchy. They never have a long shelf life though. Like you'll really with these type of songs, it's designed that you really like it right away, but if you listen to it over and over and over again, you'll just start to be like, it just doesn't have the same effect on me anymore. You know?

[52:37] Jess McEnally: Mm-hmm.

[52:39] Andrew DeWolf: But the staging and everything, like, this song really works its best in the context of the story. Like a lot of people have sung it in like their reviews or in their cabaret shows, and it doesn't work. It only works if you are the character Elf while you're green and you're flying in the fucking air singing about how you're gonna be evil now.

[53:00] Jess McEnally: Yeah. And honestly, I wouldn't want to be overexposed to it because you I think it will lose its touch. Like, generally songs that have more longevity are the ones that you kind of like when you first hear them, and each time you listen to it, you notice something about it, and you like it more and more. If you like something right away when you first hear it, it's probably not gonna have a huge lifespan for you. If you're gonna hum it right away, like as soon as you're done listening, you are not gonna love that song in about ten listens.

[53:33] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. That's why Sondheim holds up.

[53:36] Jess McEnally: Yeah, it's one of it's like it's a good song, but I'm not gonna be listening to it in a month, you know.

[53:43] Andrew DeWolf: Right. But if I see the show and I hear it, I'll be like, yeah, it's good.

[53:52] Jess McEnally: They think I'm wonderful. Hey, look who's wonderful. This corn fed hick. Who said it might be came to build a town of green and a wonderful owned yellow.

[54:09] Andrew DeWolf: Alright, you want to talk about wonderful?

[54:12] Jess McEnally: I love to talk about wonderful.

[54:13] Andrew DeWolf: Alright, let's talk about wonderful. I like this song a lot. I I don't know. It's like um It's it's one of those songs where the guy comes out and he starts singing, and you just know he's gonna dance, and I'm just waiting for him to start dancing, and then he does. And I love that.

[54:40] Jess McEnally: I don't know. What?

[54:46] Andrew DeWolf: You know, he's like it's like it leads up to it. It's like he's gonna dance, he's gonna dance, he's gonna dance, then he dances. And I think that that's fantastic. Um, and I would call this my one of my favorite cheese songs that we've listened to so far.

[55:02] Jess McEnally: What other songs in our repertoire have would you consider a cheese song?

[55:06] Andrew DeWolf: Um, well, you got like uh you got Step in Time. Uh is is pretty pretty cheese. Uh most of the stuff from like the Muppets. Uh I don't know. We haven't done many shows that have like a good cheese song in them.

[55:24] Jess McEnally: You wouldn't consider to life uh from Fiddler on the Roof a cheese song?

[55:29] Andrew DeWolf: Nope, that one was one, yes. That one was one as well. Um, In She Loves Me, there was the waiter song, which I that was a bad cheese song, but that was a cheese song. Um, so I like these type of songs, and I also I I as I said I like the wizard. Uh and I like his uh I like his little rant about how everything is just what we decide to call it later on, pretty much. Like history's decided by the victors kind of thing. I like that.

[56:02] Jess McEnally: Yeah, I don't have much to say about the song. It's a good pastiche on old timey themes.

[56:08] Andrew DeWolf: There you go. Alright, we can move on.

[56:30] Jess McEnally: Um, as long as you're mine the love song between Fiero and Alphaba. I can't say I remember too much about this one.

[56:36] Andrew DeWolf: I really like the song, like, only because they didn't go the easy way in writing it.

[56:41] Jess McEnally: How do you mean?

[56:42] Andrew DeWolf: Like, if you listen to it, it's got that percussive, like, deep drum beat like ba ba da da da da da from no one knows No One Mourns Them Wicked.

[56:52] Jess McEnally: Yeah.

[56:53] Andrew DeWolf: And it just sounds dark, depressing, and like disturbing a little bit, despite it being a love song.

[57:01] Jess McEnally: Well, I think the reason for that is because that their relationship seems doomed essentially.

[57:07] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, they are, but they aren't.

[57:10] Jess McEnally: Well, she has a plan, but like, it feels like you don't get many dark love songs in musical theater. Like songs that sound really kind of like low, like intense but low timbre.

[57:28] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I get what you're saying.

[57:30] Jess McEnally: And this one stands out to me as like just one I like because it's and it's also Alpha just embracing it, and you you haven't seen a good thing really happen to her in this entire show. And she gets the guy and she's like, you know what? I don't give a sh fuck that I stole this. I I deserve something good for once.

[57:49] Andrew DeWolf: It's not easy being green.

[57:51] Jess McEnally: Exactly. What do you think of this song? I know you don't you say you don't remember it crazy much, but to be honest, like I can't I can't give an opinion in good in good faith here because I can't to be totally honest, I can't remember too much about it.

[58:08] Andrew DeWolf: Um then I'll add the opinion. Tay Dig say sings this song really terribly.

[58:12] Jess McEnally: Alright, next song. Let all laws be agreed. I'm wicked through and through since I cannot succeed. Fiero saving you. I promise no good deed. Will I attempt to do again ever again? No good deed will I die.

[58:40] Andrew DeWolf: Um no good deed. What do you think of that song? Like that one's very that was like really an intense one.

[58:46] Jess McEnally: I love that song. I think this is my favorite song of the show. I'm trying to remember if this is like mixed in with the part where she's like speaking nonsense words.

[58:53] Andrew DeWolf: Yes. Yes.

[58:54] Jess McEnally: Okay, yeah, I like this one. Uh although the nonsense words if you didn't have that, it wouldn't be the Wizard of Oz.

[59:01] Andrew DeWolf: True. Very true. But you like how intense it is?

[59:04] Jess McEnally: Yeah, I like the intensity of it. Uh, and it seems to really fit the moment that they're going with, so I think that is a good it's definitely a good good song. And it's nice to have her finally be like, you know what? Fuck it. I'm tired of being the nice person. I mean, she already did that before with defying gravity.

[59:20] ⚠ About 4 minutes of audio could not be automatically transcribed.

[1:03:04] Andrew DeWolf: Well, number one, they became friends because Glinda was a bitch and gave her an ugly hat, and Elphaba was so clueless that she didn't realize that that's what happened. And that's how they became friends. And then really nothing else happened that made them want to be friends, really, other than that. So it's kind of just like a weird friendship.

[1:03:33] Jess McEnally: Well, we can't all come and go by bubble.

[1:03:36] Andrew DeWolf: Where did you learn to do that?

[1:03:38] Jess McEnally: They're vague about it.

[1:03:42] Andrew DeWolf: Did the wizard teach you that?

[1:03:46] Jess McEnally: I mean, the wizard doesn't know any magic, so probably not. It might be just like Oz Science.

[1:03:53] Andrew DeWolf: Alright. Well, I think we talked about every song I wanted to talk about.

[1:03:57] Jess McEnally: Alright, that's about all for the song.

[1:03:59] Andrew DeWolf: Andrew, for our last topic before we wrap this up. Out of all the music or out of all the stories in the world, what would you want to wickedify? Like hear either the villain or a smaller character's backstory of why he really did the actions he did.

[1:04:21] Jess McEnally: I think I'd want to go with something where the villain is like really irredeemable.

[1:04:25] Andrew DeWolf: Mm-hmm.

[1:04:26] Jess McEnally: Like and have it make sense with it. Like what would you be thinking? What would you think, Jess? Like, what what's your idea while I'm trying to think of one?

[1:04:36] Jess McEnally: I would like to see Nightmare Before Christmas, but from Oogie Boogie's point of view. He's just this guy that wants to eat.

[1:04:45] Andrew DeWolf: He's almost Yeah, like why is he have to why does he gotta live out like why is he an outcast?

[1:04:50] Jess McEnally: What the fuck? Yeah, it's not fair. I mean my go-to with the whole wicked thing is just fucking Gaston, please. Just because I want a musical where Gaston is the main character.

[1:05:02] Andrew DeWolf: But that's just because I like Gaston.

[1:05:05] Jess McEnally: I would also watch one with the Disaster Artist, but you hear from Tommy Wiseau's point of view.

[1:05:11] Andrew DeWolf: Tommy Wiseau is not the villain in that though.

[1:05:13] Jess McEnally: He 100% is the villain of the Disaster Artist.

[1:05:17] Andrew DeWolf: But it ends with his happy ending, though.

[1:05:22] Jess McEnally: So Yeah, so does The Godfather.

[1:05:25] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, and The Godfather's not the villain in The Godfather either.

[1:05:29] Jess McEnally: Fair.

[1:05:32] Andrew DeWolf: So you really can't wickedify something like you couldn't do The Godfather because it already is. Like he's already the protagonist.

[1:05:43] Jess McEnally: You know what? I would like to see Silence of the Lambs from Buffalo Bill's point of view.

[1:05:48] Andrew DeWolf: Jesus Christ.

[1:05:49] Jess McEnally: Where he's just trying to help this girl, and everyone's just misconstruing things.

[1:05:54] Andrew DeWolf: He literally just kidnaps her.

[1:05:56] Jess McEnally: No, she comes to his house, she's like, Can I please have some food? And then the house caves in and he's like, Oh god, I don't know how to get you out of that hole.

[1:06:07] Andrew DeWolf: I only have this rope that goes straight down to you, but it won't be able to hold your weight.

[1:06:12] Jess McEnally: Exactly. You're gonna have to lose weight.

[1:06:15] Andrew DeWolf: I do also want to say that it looks very dry down there, so here's some lotion.

[1:06:26] Jess McEnally: I'll be in my room trying on these skin suits that are not made of real skin.

[1:06:31] Andrew DeWolf: Oh my god, there's actually some skin down there in the basement.

[1:06:34] Jess McEnally: Throw it up here, we'll send it to the authorities.

[1:06:41] Andrew DeWolf: I don't understand what I'm doing wrong.

[1:06:43] Jess McEnally: Then Clarice just bars in.

[1:06:46] Andrew DeWolf: And he's like, oh come on in, let's take a look.

[1:06:51] Jess McEnally: All the lights all the lights go out, and he's like, oh jeez, power went out. I gotta get my night vision goggles so I can help her get out of my house.

[1:07:05] Andrew DeWolf: I would watch this fucking movie.

[1:07:10] Jess McEnally: I think you can already watch it. It's uh it's called Tucker and Dale vs.

[1:07:14] Andrew DeWolf: Evil.

[1:07:16] Jess McEnally: That's a good choice.

[1:07:17] Andrew DeWolf: Have you thought of another one?

[1:07:20] Jess McEnally: I can't think of another one, but how about just Tucker and Dale versus Evil, the musical?

[1:07:24] Andrew DeWolf: I'd watch that.

[1:07:24] Jess McEnally: I would watch that too.

[1:07:26] Andrew DeWolf: Alright.

[1:07:26] Jess McEnally: Uh I can't really think of one.

[1:07:28] Andrew DeWolf: I'm gonna go with Beauty and the Beasts, because I wanna see Gaston as the main character.

[1:07:32] Jess McEnally: Please, for the love of God, he's so amazing and sexy, and uh Jesus Christ, I just want him all over me.

[1:07:41] Jess McEnally: Andrew, what is your overall thoughts about Wicked and your cheese rating?

[1:07:46] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, what's my overall thoughts on Wicked? Um I feel like people are gonna think I was being critical of it. I I I actually did really like it. Uh very positive. Um it's just more fun to talk about stuff you didn't like versus stuff you did. But it it was very good. Uh I recommend it to everybody uh as a cheese rating. I'm gonna give it. I don't know. It's really not that cheesy. In some sections it is. Hmm. I'm gonna give it provolone just for the fuck of it.

[1:08:26] Jess McEnally: No, what you should have given it.

[1:08:27] Andrew DeWolf: What should I give in it?

[1:08:29] Jess McEnally: Um shabzier.

[1:08:32] Andrew DeWolf: What's that?

[1:08:33] Jess McEnally: A traditional cheese exclusively produced in the Canton of Gloris in Switzerland. It is screen.

[1:08:38] Andrew DeWolf: Oh my god.

[1:08:41] Jess McEnally: Okay, I'm changing it. I'm giving it that. I don't know how to say it though.

[1:08:45] Andrew DeWolf: It's Shaz B-Ch A B Z I G E R.

[1:08:50] Jess McEnally: Uh Shazbot.

[1:08:52] Andrew DeWolf: Really?

[1:08:54] Jess McEnally: No.

[1:08:54] Andrew DeWolf: Oh Jess, I have a special segment that we need to do.

[1:08:57] Jess McEnally: What?

[1:08:58] Andrew DeWolf: I have something in my fridge that I need to try, and I haven't tried yet.

[1:09:02] Jess McEnally: Oh yes!

[1:09:03] Andrew DeWolf: Yes!

[1:09:04] Jess McEnally: I forgot! For those of you long time watchers of our show, might remember my She Loves Me episode featuring musical hell that I mentioned chocolate cheese, and both Andrew and Christy looked at me like I was a fucking idiot.

[1:09:22] Andrew DeWolf: Yep.

[1:09:23] Jess McEnally: And you know what? Just to prove a point. I bought Andrew some of that chocolate cheese.

[1:09:30] Andrew DeWolf: My goodness, this is a weird texture to this thing.

[1:09:33] Jess McEnally: And Andrew has it in front of him right now, and he's about to eat it on k on podcast for you.

[1:09:41] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. I got a pretty good lump of it, so I'm really hoping I like it.

[1:09:45] Jess McEnally: Me too.

[1:09:47] Andrew DeWolf: Alright. It feels more like chocolate than cheese, to be honest with you. Like it feels like it's gonna melt. Let me give it a try here.

[1:09:57] Andrew DeWolf: That is very, very interesting.

[1:09:59] Jess McEnally: What's it taste like?

[1:10:01] Andrew DeWolf: Fudge.

[1:10:02] Jess McEnally: It tastes like fudge.

[1:10:03] Andrew DeWolf: But it's cheese that says so.

[1:10:05] Jess McEnally: It does say it's cheese, but it tastes like straight fudge.

[1:10:10] Andrew DeWolf: I don't taste any cheese.

[1:10:12] Jess McEnally: But it is cheese.

[1:10:13] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, it definitely is. It says it right on the fucking packaging.

[1:10:18] Jess McEnally: But it doesn't have the cheese flavor. Like it obviously isn't fudge. And like you can I can feel it, and it's not actually.

[1:10:25] Jess McEnally: So what would you rate that cheese experience?

[1:10:28] Andrew DeWolf: I think the problem isn't that it doesn't taste enough like cheese. Like I actually want it to taste more like cheese, which is the weird thing.

[1:10:36] Jess McEnally: Well, that was uneventful, and I'm sorry for wasting your time with it.

[1:10:40] Andrew DeWolf: I think what I want what I'd want is I want to have it with something.

[1:10:45] Jess McEnally: See, I've had it with pretzels, and it works pretty well with that.

[1:10:48] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I think this with like with pretzels or something like that would work really well. I think the issue is eating it on your own. It's like if it's like if I had a block of fudge in front of me and I just started munching into it. It's like I guess some people do do that, but to me that seems like a really fucking weird thing to do.

[1:11:10] Jess McEnally: Thank you for listening to our show. We're so thankful that you're here. Please review us on iTunes, Spotify Stitcher, at Musicals with Cheese. We still doing contests. Like, not next week, but the following week, we will be offering another contest, so get your reviews in. We're on Twitter at Cheesy Musicals, our Instagram, Musical with Cheese, YouTube page Musical Theater Lives. Shoot us an email at musicaltheatrelives@gmail.com.

[1:11:35] Jess McEnally: Our title card was created by Jolene Casco. And her Instagram is at Jolene Casco. Hit us up with some donations if you'd like. Uh Patreon.com slash uh musicals with cheese, is that right?

[1:11:49] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, that's correct. Please, if you've got any free chains to throw at us every month or whatever we post a podcast, we'd love to have it. We need to keep food on the table. We'd like to get Andrew out of the sales business.

[1:12:03] Jess McEnally: Yeah, if we can start doing our podcast in a maybe not full time, but it is more of a less of a hobby and more of a job, I guess is how you'd put it.

[1:12:15] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, and if there are rewards for you where you'll get to talk and interact with us as well. Like if we get enough funding, we'd be able to put out two of these episodes a week, so it's more content for you.

[1:12:29] Andrew DeWolf: But I'm gonna use uh like cheese crackers as like uh as like a sandwich. Uh hang on.

[1:12:35] Andrew DeWolf: Mmm. She that's good.

[1:12:40] Andrew DeWolf: That's actually if you add more cheese to the chocolate, then it's better.

[1:12:44] Jess McEnally: I kinda like that, actually.

[1:12:45] Jess McEnally: I'm kind of digging it. Andrew, do you want to talk about our official sponsor and cap it all off?

[1:12:51] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, wonderful.

[1:12:54] Andrew DeWolf: Audible is wonderful. And if I had to go to get my audio books, I'd go to Audible Trial.com slash musicals with cheese.

[1:13:08] Andrew DeWolf: Uh okay. Um yeah, I I'm very happy about our sponsor who has decided to sponsor us, and that is Audible. Uh I actually have used Audible to uh listen to books since I am illiterate. Um I do actually require the audio audiobook experience.

[1:13:24] Andrew DeWolf: Um so this is a great service that we are going to be giving you a 30 day free trial membership for. All you have to do is go to Audible Trial.com slash musicals with cheese, and you can check out just a huge selection of books that you can listen to.

[1:13:38] Andrew DeWolf: Um including uh uh Wicked if you'd like, you can even listen to that on there. Uh it's really that easy. Just go to audibletrial.com slash musicals of cheese, and you'll not only get some free books, but you'll uh be supporting the show.

[1:13:53] Andrew DeWolf: Thank you guys for listening. I'm so happy they guys keep listening in. I'm Jess McEnally.

[1:13:59] Andrew DeWolf: And I'm Andrew DeWolf. And this was Musicals with Cheese.