This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:05] Jesse McAnally: Hello, I'm Jesse McAnally.

[0:07] Andrew DeWolf: And I'm Andrew DeWolf.

[0:09] Jesse McAnally: And welcome to Musicals with Cheese, a podcast where I try to get Andrew to like musical theater week by week and show by show. And Andrew, can you believe it?

[0:15] Andrew DeWolf: We've got an extra special returning guest.

[0:18] Jesse McAnally: Ooh, extra special returning guest.

[0:20] Andrew DeWolf: Ooh.

[0:21] Jesse McAnally: Yes. They're on their way to the cheese platter.

[0:23] Andrew DeWolf: They are.

[0:24] Jesse McAnally: And also ranked one of the best episodes of last year by our keeper of the cheese, Juliet Antonio, returning guest, Robbie Rozelle.

[0:32] Andrew DeWolf: And they're multi-hyphenate.

[0:34] Jesse McAnally: I forgot to even list your multi-hyphenate and definitely matter.

[0:38] Andrew DeWolf: You are very handsome, is all you asked me to say.

[0:42] Jesse McAnally: That's the only thing that was on there.

[0:43] Andrew DeWolf: He's handsome.

[0:44] Jesse McAnally: Handsome fella Robbie Rozelle.

[0:47] Andrew DeWolf: Wait, I'm so sorry. Before we go into everything we're about to go into, our episode on High Society was rated the best of last year.

[0:55] Jesse McAnally: That's a lot of the best, yes.

[0:57] Andrew DeWolf: It was one of the top 10 best of last years.

[0:59] Jesse McAnally: I was surprised.

[1:02] Andrew DeWolf: That's for all of us.

[1:04] Jesse McAnally: How is your quest to falling in love with musical theater going? Would you say?

[1:07] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, it's uh well, until this week it was going pretty well. This one was just awful.

[1:14] Jesse McAnally: Um Andrew fundamentally disagrees with the man in the moon being a lady, so it's actually a drag queen, but it's fine.

[1:23] Andrew DeWolf: It has to be a man.

[1:26] Jesse McAnally: It's a man in the moon. How could it be a lady? What happened to traditional masculinity?

[1:33] Andrew DeWolf: Where were you on January 6th?

[1:35] Jesse McAnally: Jail.

[1:36] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[1:37] Jesse McAnally: Great. I just love okay. Now I've got this image in my head of B. Arthur on January 6th. I'm getting in there. I don't care.

[1:48] Andrew DeWolf: You ain't gonna stop me.

[1:49] Jesse McAnally: She was actually the shaman. Like, what is this? Two minutes and we're already off the rails completely.

[1:55] Andrew DeWolf: My inner B. Arthur's coming out in my laugh. In case you haven't picked up what we're throwing down, which I don't see why you would. We've literally given no good hints.

[2:04] Jesse McAnally: This week we are talking about the musical Mame.

[2:08] Andrew DeWolf: Cue the music.

[2:10] Jesse McAnally: You coaxed the blues right out of the morn. You charm the stride off of the corn, Mame. You've got the angel strum and a pumpkin other tune to beat the man. The whole plantation, you brought Dixie back to Dixie Line. You make the con easy to make. May you give my old man July Mame. Who have I thought a Yankee would put a little Dipsybell to shame? You made us feel alive again. You've given us the drive again to make the suffering vibe again, Mame.

[3:17] Jesse McAnally: So fun fact, this musical's writer is literally named Robert E. Lee. But let's go into that. Hold on. I'm not exaggerating. Holy shit! He is credited in the film as Robert E. Lee. But Mame is a musical written by Jerome Lawrence and Robert Edwin Lee, AKA Robert E. Lee. Music and lyrics by Jerry Herman, based on Auntie Mame, a series of novellas by Patrick Dennis. Um, who is a very interesting person in his own right.

[3:43] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[3:44] Jesse McAnally: Um, but the musical opened on Broadway at the Winter Garden Theater on May 24th, 1966. Three years later, transferred to the Broadway Theater, where it remained until closing on January 3rd, 1970. Between the two venues, it ran a total of 1,508 performances and five previews. Remember when you could just have five previews?

[4:02] Andrew DeWolf: Um, the plot of Mame is Roaring Twenties socialite Mame Dennis teaches her orphan nephew the nature of free living and free thinking, attempting to keep him from the clutches of the uptight world, his late father's estate executor and later his fiancée. Um I guess that's a plot.

[4:19] Jesse McAnally: Um so Robbie, I consider you as far as the musical theater like internet space, the one that the authority of divas. Literally, it's in your Twitter handle, Diva Robbie. You know personally, so many divas. You have described being a footstool to Patti LuPone. You have so many Melissa Errico stories.

[4:42] Robbie Rozelle: I do, yes. Thanks so much uh for remembering. I everything that you say I latch on to because I find your existence so fascinating.

[4:53] Jesse McAnally: Same.

[4:53] Robbie Rozelle: So I I wasn't a hundred percent sure your opinions on Mame, but I knew you would definitely have some. And for those of you behind the scenes, we were covering Mame no matter what. I just reached out to Robbie less than 24 hours ago to see if they join in with us.

[5:09] Robbie Rozelle: And you know what? Damn thrilled to be here. There's nothing I like to do more in the world than talk about Jerry Herman. So this is what a day. A banner year for me. Nay, yeah, century.

[5:20] Jesse McAnally: And we're giving you a better show than High Society at the very end. Also, weirdly, saw Melissa Errico in concert two nights ago, and she sang from High Society. Everyone's favorite would be an excellent Mame. So and we're gonna get into it. I know you're gonna have opinions. I I love Mame. I want to hear them.

[5:38] Robbie Rozelle: I'm less Mame.

[5:40] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, I think it's there's something in the way that Jerry Herman writes that makes him ideal for Mame, which is such a queer-coded show to begin with, because Mame Dennis is basically your fabulous gay uncle.

[5:57] Robbie Rozelle: Where's the lie?

[5:58] Jesse McAnally: No lie detected.

[5:59] Robbie Rozelle: None, not one. I can see it.

[6:01] Jesse McAnally: The fact that Paul Lynde never played Mame is shocking.

[6:07] Robbie Rozelle: Shocking.

[6:09] Jesse McAnally: Never even any covers, like no, no. Honestly, uh, Mame is unlike Dolly Levi, born Gallagher, um, there there has never been like a high profile production with a male lead.

[6:22] Robbie Rozelle: Fascinating.

[6:23] Jesse McAnally: I find a drag lead would be interesting. I also think a trans lead would be interesting. I think bringing Mame back to Broadway in the year of our lord 2024 would be a fascinating thing.

[6:35] Robbie Rozelle: Yeah, it it definitely requires a a rewrite.

[6:39] Jesse McAnally: But like I would say an entire restructure of that second act. I mean, the whole thing is like a series of episodes, right? It's vignette, vignette, vignette, vignette, vignette, um, strung together by a really gorgeous joyous score.

[6:54] Robbie Rozelle: And a little bit of praise for the South.

[6:57] Jesse McAnally: And yes, yes, but in a satire, like they're Jerry Herman and Mame are fully mocking what is happening.

[7:07] Robbie Rozelle: Yeah, they are.

[7:08] Jesse McAnally: So unless they're, I don't know, truthers.

[7:11] Andrew DeWolf: Um J Sixers.

[7:13] Jesse McAnally: Lost cause.

[7:14] Andrew DeWolf: Right.

[7:14] Jesse McAnally: Uh where was Mame on January 6th?

[7:17] Robbie Rozelle: She was uh anywhere else, honestly.

[7:21] Jesse McAnally: Everywhere else.

[7:22] Robbie Rozelle: She was a weird.

[7:27] Jesse McAnally: Singing Welcome Home from Bandstand to them as they walked in.

[7:32] Robbie Rozelle: So I love Mame. I think though, it is a show that, like all Jerry Herman shows, really requires a dynamic leading lady to carry it over the finish line.

[7:44] Jesse McAnally: And Lucille Ball.

[7:46] Robbie Rozelle: Well, uh, we're gonna get to her, right? Um because you know it was Jerry, Jerry wanted Judy Garland to do it more than any other. And uh the producers would not bond Judy Garland uh to do it because like insurers would not bond her. They didn't think that she could do eight a week. We talked a lot about Judy Garland and what they were going through during that period, and it was not great. Anything uh uh an actress could go through Judy Garland went through it. Plus, yeah, she had to build that arc she was busy.

[8:21] Jesse McAnally: Um but all this love for Mame up front, I do wanna I hope Andrew won't mind me quoting him directly, but he did text me after watching two versions of Mame, and I believe you said, as a society, we have done the right thing to completely forget everything about Mame except for that Christmas song.

[8:41] Andrew DeWolf: Now, is that misrepresenting that your opinion on Mame?

[8:46] Robbie Rozelle: I don't know if it's misrepresenting since I did directly say it. Seems like that seems like that would be my opinion.

[8:54] Jesse McAnally: Andrew, okay. What happened to you? Do you hate joy?

[8:59] Andrew DeWolf: A little bit.

[9:00] Jesse McAnally: Yeah. I can see that through the screen.

[9:03] Andrew DeWolf: Um, do you hate happiness? Do you hate large parties with champagne and sliding down banisters?

[9:12] Jesse McAnally: What memes did you watch? This is the key. What memes did you watch to say Mame is not for me?

[9:19] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, well, I sent that message after watching the movie.

[9:21] Jesse McAnally: Well, that is a fair assessment.

[9:24] Andrew DeWolf: But he did watch the Christine Baranski Kennedy Center's performance before that.

[9:29] Jesse McAnally: The full thing or like the highlight.

[9:31] Andrew DeWolf: The full thing.

[9:32] Jesse McAnally: Oh wow. Great.

[9:33] Andrew DeWolf: So you I think I sent a different opinion after watching that one, which was Mame is just about nothing, right?

[9:40] Robbie Rozelle: No.

[9:41] Jesse McAnally: It it see that's the thing. It is not about nothing. It's very much about um teaching uh teaching children um about joy and um letting go of repressions, right?

[9:57] Robbie Rozelle: Which again is like a fabulous gay uncle or a crazy aunt. Everybody's got their crazy cat lady aunt, right? And this sort of merges the two of them together.

[10:08] Andrew DeWolf: And after so quick plot synopsis. Umert, Mame's brother dies uh in a tragic accident, very Batman style somehow, along with his wife.

[10:20] Jesse McAnally: And everybody's dead except for the kid who becomes Batman.

[10:25] Andrew DeWolf: Um so the kid is sent to go live with said fabulous aunt, who is a bohemian, and he's been raised like in a very repressed Republican sort of Catholic, I'm guessing.

[10:38] Jesse McAnally: Um yeah, because St. Brigida is like the opener. Um he's sent to go live with them with Auntie Mame, who is the full opposite of that.

[10:50] Andrew DeWolf: And um what I think it is is about like discovering who you are and letting go of what you are brought up on. But then he also embraces his original conservative nature later in life.

[11:04] Robbie Rozelle: Yeah.

[11:05] Andrew DeWolf: Where, like oh, Lakage, even Jerry Herman, where like the son is bringing home the conservative in-law, which is what Patrick Dennis does, and could you tone it down a little?

[11:20] Jesse McAnally: And Auntie Mame is like, uh fuck that. What if I turned it up to 11?

[11:27] Robbie Rozelle: Do you know the Christmas song because of the Muppets?

[11:29] Andrew DeWolf: We need a little Christmas.

[11:31] Robbie Rozelle: Yeah, probably.

[11:32] Andrew DeWolf: Sure.

[11:32] Robbie Rozelle: I thought you knew it because it's on every five minutes every time I'm at a grocery store from October to December.

[11:39] Andrew DeWolf: Sure.

[11:39] Jesse McAnally: That is well. But like the Muppet Family Christmas literally opens with them all doing it.

[11:44] Andrew DeWolf: It does.

[11:44] Jesse McAnally: Which also is not a Christmas song.

[11:46] Andrew DeWolf: That's the hilarious part.

[11:48] Jesse McAnally: There's a lot of Christmas songs that aren't Christmas songs, though.

[11:51] Andrew DeWolf: Sure.

[11:51] Jesse McAnally: Christmas just kind of claims they just claim songs, and it's just like, well, this is a Christmas song now.

[11:56] Andrew DeWolf: Sure.

[11:57] Jesse McAnally: Although this one is the most like a Christmas song, despite it not being a Christmas song.

[12:01] Andrew DeWolf: Despite not being a Christmas song, they are at least talking about Christmas.

[12:05] Jesse McAnally: Sure.

[12:06] Andrew DeWolf: And saying that they need Christmas.

[12:07] Jesse McAnally: So there's jaunty. So I guess you get that. He had some jingle bells in there, and then it is a Christmas song.

[12:12] Andrew DeWolf: That's it.

[12:14] Jesse McAnally: And people have. I do have a question about the timeline of Mame. So, we introduce in the very first scene that he Patrick was due to arrive on December 1st, and she thinks it's November 31st, and then she's like, oh no, I got my dates wrong.

[12:30] Andrew DeWolf: How soon between that and her losing all her money is that?

[12:35] Jesse McAnally: Oh, right. So she loses it. She you loses it all in 1929 in the Wall Street crash, right?

[12:45] Andrew DeWolf: Right.

[12:45] Jesse McAnally: So sometime within that year, probably a year.

[12:49] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, so it's not literally like two weeks later.

[12:51] Jesse McAnally: No, and they are we need a little Christmas.

[12:54] Andrew DeWolf: No, it's like, smash cut.

[12:56] Jesse McAnally: Sure.

[12:57] Andrew DeWolf: No, there's some time in there. It's just again, because these are all vignettes.

[13:01] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[13:02] Andrew DeWolf: Um, everything should be assumed that there is a passage of time.

[13:05] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, sometimes it makes sense, but like since those are the only two times they address dates, and it is in relative the same time, where it's like, it's two weeks past Thanksgiving day. I'm like, thank that math of my track.

[13:18] Andrew DeWolf: Hold on. So how long were the servants working for her for free?

[13:24] Jesse McAnally: Great question. Thanks for asking.

[13:26] Andrew DeWolf: One hundred years.

[13:29] Jesse McAnally: Oh no. No, I don't know.

[13:31] Andrew DeWolf: The South really has written again.

[13:36] Jesse McAnally: Yikes.

[13:44] Andrew DeWolf: This is the best episode this year.

[13:48] Jesse McAnally: It's the best episode of the year.

[13:49] Andrew DeWolf: It took me a second to realize, and then it all once.

[13:53] Jesse McAnally: I apologize, right? We we uh, we've gone too long without bringing up Mr. Pickett Burnside, Jackson Pickett Burnside.

[14:01] Andrew DeWolf: Sure.

[14:02] Jesse McAnally: Um one of the top tier Broadway names, like right next to like Ermingard from uh Hello, Dolly.

[14:09] Andrew DeWolf: I think Jerry Herman musicals just like fucking weird names.

[14:12] Jesse McAnally: Ermingard, yeah.

[14:13] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. Well, a lot of them come from their source material, so I know, but I feel like uh when was Mame uh when was this the novel of Auntie Mame was written in 55.

[14:28] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, so it's not even a 10 year old property.

[14:30] Jesse McAnally: No, but also there's a very popular movie that already existed.

[14:35] Andrew DeWolf: So let's think about what it would be like. I don't know the last time you watched Anti-Mame.

[14:41] Robbie Rozelle: Oh, it's great.

[14:42] Andrew DeWolf: It is so there's a movie that's not the musical version of the street.

[14:46] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, so there was a play called Anti-Mame that starred Rosalind Russell, uh, of Wonderful Town fame on Broadway. And then she made the film of it, and then Jerry Herman musicalized the same novel.

[15:04] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[15:04] Jesse McAnally: And they're very similar pieces. Like they are not dissimilar pieces.

[15:09] Andrew DeWolf: And the film, directed by Martin DeCosta, same director as The Music Man.

[15:12] Robbie Rozelle: Yeah.

[15:13] Andrew DeWolf: Morton, can I go into a conspiracy theory for a second right here?

[15:18] Jesse McAnally: Tinfoil, right now.

[15:19] Robbie Rozelle: Let's go.

[15:20] Andrew DeWolf: It's weird. I think it's less conspiracy, just more like I'm seeing patterns, so maybe I'm just schizophrenic. So let's take a look at that.

[15:27] Jesse McAnally: Sure.

[15:27] Andrew DeWolf: Two things can be true.

[15:28] Andrew DeWolf: So Morton Acosta only directed three films before they died. One being The Music Man, one being Anti-Mame, and one being Island of Love.

[15:36] Robbie Rozelle: Two out of three of those have Robert Preston starring in them.

[15:41] Andrew DeWolf: Um, The Music Man and Island of Love. The third one, Anti-Mame, does not have Robert Preston starring in it. However, the remake of that film as a musical directed by, um, oh god, I think it's, oh, what's that fucker's name?

[15:54] Jesse McAnally: The guy that directed the play.

[15:55] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, uh, Gene Sachs.

[15:57] Robbie Rozelle: Gene Sachs does have Robert Preston in it. Were we just trying to fill Morton de Costa's need to put Robert Preston into every one of their properties?

[16:06] Jesse McAnally: Hmm.

[16:07] Robbie Rozelle: Huh. Interesting, interesting, interesting.

[16:09] Andrew DeWolf: Because that fills in the one bubble that he didn't get. Or was he just so profitable because of The Music Man that they were like this?

[16:18] Jesse McAnally: Well, see a profitable name.

[16:20] Andrew DeWolf: Robert.

[16:22] Robbie Rozelle: He does look good with a mustache.

[16:24] Jesse McAnally: Who among us doesn't?

[16:26] Andrew DeWolf: Gene Sachs, fun fact, was married to Bea Arthur.

[16:28] Robbie Rozelle: Yep, that's why Bea Arthur's in the movie.

[16:32] Andrew DeWolf: Um, I have a quote from Bea Arthur where she basically said, "My husband blackmailed me into being in the film."

[16:38] Robbie Rozelle: Sure.

[16:39] Andrew DeWolf: Like basically, like, "Hey, do your part in this marriage. Be in this movie."

[16:44] Robbie Rozelle: Wow.

[16:44] Andrew DeWolf: I was like, it looks like shit.

[16:46] Robbie Rozelle: Jesus.

[16:50] Andrew DeWolf: She was very openly against this film. Like in an interview, she said, "Oh god, you saw the film version of Mame, it's horrible. I hated it. I absolutely hate the film of Mame. It was one of those things you get talked into doing. At the time I was married to the director of the film. He says, as my wife you owe it to me." And I just felt that it was badly miscast.

[17:12] Jesse McAnally: Are we gonna talk about the movie now? Or were we going there? Do you think are you ready? Because I feel like we didn't even talk about Angela, which we should do.

[17:18] Robbie Rozelle: Let's talk about Angela because she jumped from Anyone Can Whistle, which was her first probably show, into this.

[17:27] Andrew DeWolf: She was great.

[17:28] Robbie Rozelle: Yeah. Like, uh, for someone that had only been in one other musical that flopped, huge flop. Like, embarrassing flop to go into her name being above the fucking marquee.

[17:38] Andrew DeWolf: And I'm pretty sure Mary Martin was offered the role as well, as well as Lucille Ball for the stage version.

[17:44] Robbie Rozelle: Whoops.

[17:45] Andrew DeWolf: And Angela Lansbury got it and won the Tony, was incredible, well regarded, went on national tours with the show. Like she was, this made her. This was the moment she made it.

[17:56] Robbie Rozelle: And why is she not in the movie?

[17:59] Andrew DeWolf: That's it.

[18:00] Robbie Rozelle: Yeah, great question.

[18:01] Andrew DeWolf: Hollywood was sorta done with her for a minute.

[18:05] Robbie Rozelle: Right?

[18:05] Andrew DeWolf: Until The Manchurian Candidate, um, where she would get Oscar nominated. But like she had become middle-aged, and suddenly on Broadway, she was this like sparkly leading lady in her yellow sparkly jumpsuit.

[18:22] Robbie Rozelle: Um, which fun fact spawned Neil Diamond because that's about all he wears.

[18:28] Andrew DeWolf: Alright, alright. This all tracks.

[18:30] Jesse McAnally: I'm tracking all this.

[18:31] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, you're welcome. Uh, so follow the lines. She reinvented herself as a musical comedy lady. I don't know why she didn't do the film, other than like her movies didn't sell.

[18:46] Robbie Rozelle: So Warner Brothers executives are the ones that passed on Angela Lansbury for the title role. Um, but Lansbury recalled a time when she was playing Mame on Broadway, and she was visited by one Lucille Ball, who told her she was amazing in the part and deserved all the honors she was receiving and was a shoe-in for the film version.

[19:05] Andrew DeWolf: Lansbury was very touched at this until she noticed Ball on the wings taking notes during her performance.

[19:11] Robbie Rozelle: It was then she realized she was never gonna play the part in the movie.

[19:14] Andrew DeWolf: Yikes.

[19:15] Robbie Rozelle: Um, backstabbed.

[19:17] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, Lucy was Lucy, and this was kind of her big return to film because Lucy didn't do films for many years. And this is famously her last film because she refused to do another one.

[19:28] Robbie Rozelle: Angela and Lucy did a film together.

[19:32] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, do you know what film?

[19:34] Robbie Rozelle: I do not.

[19:35] Andrew DeWolf: It was a musical.

[19:36] Robbie Rozelle: It is The Harvey Girls with Judy Garland.

[19:39] Andrew DeWolf: The three possible names.

[19:42] Robbie Rozelle: Right?

[19:43] Andrew DeWolf: Ooh. What a movie.

[19:46] Robbie Rozelle: Conspiracy.

[19:46] Andrew DeWolf: There is the main conspiracy going on.

[19:49] Robbie Rozelle: There's too many, too many reticular.

[19:52] Andrew DeWolf: There's a lot of things getting tied together.

[19:55] Robbie Rozelle: So the Mame revival happened in '83, and that's a couple years after Sweeney Todd, where she kind of gets a theater renaissance in a weird way.

[20:03] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[20:04] Robbie Rozelle: And that flopped hard.

[20:05] Andrew DeWolf: Is it because people were just like really like, oh, you're Mrs. Lovett now. Go be that.

[20:10] Robbie Rozelle: Right. But now we gotta transfer it into the movie.

[20:13] Andrew DeWolf: So the film was released in 1974, shot in Panavision, uh, and it was originally supposed to be shot in 1972, but was postponed when Lucy Ball broke her leg in a skiing accident, much like Pickett Burnside. Owing to this delay, the original director, George Cukor, who directed A Star is Born and some scenes in The Wizard of Oz, um, was forced to withdraw from the project, and then it went to Gene Sachs, who directed the original show.

[20:41] Robbie Rozelle: Yes.

[20:41] Andrew DeWolf: Which is, uh, interesting, like a wildly interesting because he wasn't really a film director per se.

[20:49] Robbie Rozelle: Um, though he did make other movies later.

[20:53] Andrew DeWolf: But it's so much of a how come? Uh, yeah, the movie is not right. Hollywood did not do well by our pal Jerry Herman. Because you got the Hello, Dolly! debacle, which is another leading lady bullshit thing where they got Carol Channing and then you got Babs in the role.

[21:13] Robbie Rozelle: Now, I do not dislike the movie as much as some.

[21:18] Andrew DeWolf: I do.

[21:19] Robbie Rozelle: That's okay.

[21:21] Andrew DeWolf: Uh, but it's not as, uh, the more time that passes, the better the Hello, Dolly! film is. I think Barbara Streisand would be more right for the role today if we made it.

[21:31] Robbie Rozelle: She wouldn't sing it today.

[21:34] Andrew DeWolf: Unfortunately. But, um, but it's a very fun romp, right? So I, it, but the Mame film, which is basically shot through like Vaseline and cheesecloth, and she's nothing but it's right up our alley, right?

[21:51] Robbie Rozelle: Like, and the way she's dressed, she looks like a sequin with eyes. Like that's all you see is like maybe a nostril. Because there's so much Vaseline on that lens.

[22:02] Andrew DeWolf: It's fascinating. The budget for Lucille Ball's costumes alone was $300,000.

[22:08] Robbie Rozelle: Is there a Vaseline budget?

[22:10] Andrew DeWolf: There had to have been.

[22:11] Robbie Rozelle: Um, they didn't list it. It's not like the Blues Brothers where cocaine was on the, uh, line sheet.

[22:17] Andrew DeWolf: There's not a Vaseline for the gay men ensemble.

[22:20] Robbie Rozelle: That's weird.

[22:21] Andrew DeWolf: No, not that I know. Um, they should have listed something there.

[22:25] Robbie Rozelle: Yeah, they should have. It's a, it's expensive. They should could have written it off.

[22:29] Andrew DeWolf: But Jerry Herman actually worked very hard with Lucille Ball to try to improve her singing, but she could barely sustain a note for even one sentence without becoming winded.

[22:37] Robbie Rozelle: Um, open a new window of a skiing edge.

[22:40] Andrew DeWolf: This is a fun story. Open a new window. Because she couldn't get through a single sentence, so they're editing 50 different takes to get her through like one phrase.

[22:40] Robbie Rozelle: Open a new window.

[22:53] Andrew DeWolf: She could never sing the word "door," and so finally he ran up to her with a tape recorder, hit the note for "door" and said, "Sing door." And she went, "door." It is cut and paste all over the place.

[23:07] Robbie Rozelle: And you can hear envy.

[23:08] Andrew DeWolf: Do not envy those audio engineers.

[23:10] Robbie Rozelle: No.

[23:11] Andrew DeWolf: Open a new window. Open a new door. Travel a new highway.

[23:20] Robbie Rozelle: And it's not like today where it's an audition cut and paste.

[23:24] Andrew DeWolf: It was tape.

[23:25] Robbie Rozelle: No, no. You're slicing all that and you're piecing it together and oh my god.

[23:31] Andrew DeWolf: And is it worth it for an actress that doesn't move gracefully, that doesn't sing in any way that sounds appealing to the ear, and has one scene where they're really shining, and then the rest of the film, they are just kinda there?

[23:46] Robbie Rozelle: Yeah, and that I think belies the major problem with Mame. If you don't have an engaging leading lady to carry the film, or to carry any production of it, that's the whole my central thesis in general.

[23:59] Andrew DeWolf: Then you don't have a show. And what I find very interesting is Gene Sachs directed this. Gene Sachs is most famous for directing, um, almost all of Neil Simon's plays.

[24:12] Robbie Rozelle: Yeah.

[24:12] Andrew DeWolf: Uh, for years, right? And, um, they are all comedies, most of them, um, with some kind of farcical element, etc. And you have the greatest screen comedian of all time, and it does not work.

[24:30] Robbie Rozelle: Age is a factor, but it's not the only factor.

[24:35] Andrew DeWolf: No, I think it has a lot. The editing is garbage. There is no comedic timing to any cut.

[24:41] Robbie Rozelle: Which makes everything that Lucy probably really, really is good at. Like Bosom Buddies is not a problem with her performance. It is the problem with the way it's edited and how long we hold on a shot or how long we hold on a reaction.

[24:54] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. Um, I, there are, it really is so baffling how this film turned out to be so unpleasant to watch. I do love and use a gif of Bea Arthur often raising the, um, champagne glass and then promptly falling backwards down the stairs.

[25:13] Robbie Rozelle: Yes.

[25:13] Andrew DeWolf: That is perfect.

[25:15] Robbie Rozelle: That is no notes.

[25:17] Andrew DeWolf: Uh, Bea Arthur escapes, uh, Bea Arthur and Jane Connell are who escaped this film unscathed. And they are notably the two people who did the stage production.

[25:27] Robbie Rozelle: Robert Preston's so close, but then he trips right before the finish line.

[25:31] Andrew DeWolf: Uh, his new song is beautiful.

[25:33] Robbie Rozelle: Loving You? Gorgeous.

[25:35] Andrew DeWolf: And he's actually allowed to sing. He's never been allowed to sing outside of Mac and Mabel. And this is not, this would be his first brush with Jerry Herman, but not his last.

[25:37] Robbie Rozelle: Mac and Mabel, and he also, Jerry wrote extra songs for Ben Franklin in Paris. Including its most famous one.

[25:59] Andrew DeWolf: So, uh, yeah. Did he also, who wrote Chicken Fat? Because I think about that song a lot.

[26:05] Robbie Rozelle: What is chicken fat?

[26:07] Andrew DeWolf: You don't know about chicken fat?

[26:09] Robbie Rozelle: Hold on. Hold on.

[26:10] Andrew DeWolf: Is this like a commercial or something?

[26:13] Robbie Rozelle: So in the mid 20th century, um, Americans were getting fat. So they hired, uh, Robert Preston.

[26:21] Andrew DeWolf: I thought it was Jerry Herman that wrote a score, but, uh, it was Nose, nineteen sixty one, about how kids should do sit-ups and do push-ups.

[26:30] Robbie Rozelle: Um, now we're about to listen to it.

[26:32] Andrew DeWolf: Chicken fat.

[26:33] Robbie Rozelle: Oh.

[26:33] Andrew DeWolf: Is this one, this is on vinyl?

[26:35] Robbie Rozelle: Yeah, it's on a lot of things. Ten times now and then give that chicken fat back to the chickens.

[26:44] Andrew DeWolf: How do we have an obesity epidemic if this exists?

[26:48] Robbie Rozelle: Explain that.

[26:48] Andrew DeWolf: Hired by the government to sing this, I've heard so many stories about this song. Like even my dad brought up hearing the song they would play it in the gyms during the 60s and 70s required in educational school.

[27:04] Robbie Rozelle: Oh no, that was written by Meredith Wilson.

[27:08] Andrew DeWolf: I knew it was someone I just did a googie goo.

[27:11] Robbie Rozelle: Like, like Music Man?

[27:13] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I gotta teach Robbie something that he didn't know. This is the secret, the secret Music Man song.

[27:21] Robbie Rozelle: I have been in love with this song for a while. Every morning, not just tangent to go on longer than it needs to, but it got revitalized in my brain because I don't watch this show, but my girlfriend does, um, Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, they have Tony Shalhoub doing exercises every morning and they play that song every time, but then he gets sad and he can't bring himself to exercise, so they do a sad piano rendition of it and it's the funniest.

[27:39] Andrew DeWolf: Hold on, can I find that version of it that, um, so that song was written in 1961 for the President's Council on Physical Fitness by Meredith Wilson. And it was played every morning for the students to do calisthenics.

[28:03] Robbie Rozelle: Kill me.

[28:09] Andrew DeWolf: And it didn't work.

[28:10] Robbie Rozelle: We all got fat anyways.

[28:11] Andrew DeWolf: If I eat the cheese, that's the problem.

[28:14] Robbie Rozelle: It is, I mean, the cheese is gonna kill me.

[28:18] Andrew DeWolf: All of us.

[28:19] Robbie Rozelle: It's fucking incredible. I'm sorry that I had to take that to, I felt it was important to share.

[28:24] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, I will tell you, Jerry Herman did write a song that was on Golden Girls.

[28:28] Robbie Rozelle: Which one?

[28:29] Andrew DeWolf: The Henny Penny song.

[28:31] Robbie Rozelle: Yes, that makes sense.

[28:43] Robbie Rozelle: Robert Preston is so charming in the movie.

[28:46] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[28:46] Robbie Rozelle: He the joke dies because he doesn't even attempt a southern accent.

[28:51] Jesse McAnally: Except for maybe one line or two every now and then.

[28:54] Robbie Rozelle: Sure.

[28:55] Robbie Rozelle: He is full of charm, full of charisma.

[28:58] Robbie Rozelle: He is a screen presence. When you're on a drought, he is a drop of water, but only a drop.

[29:04] Robbie Rozelle: And then we get to the ridiculous South segment.

[29:08] Jesse McAnally: Sure.

[29:09] Robbie Rozelle: Sure. Um that segment is hilarious in how just ludicrous it all is.

[29:17] Robbie Rozelle: And obviously, like Patrick Dennis, uh openly gay Patrick Dennis, was um taking the piss out of all of that.

[29:27] Jesse McAnally: Yes.

[29:27] Robbie Rozelle: Um, I think there are times where people play it too straight.

[29:34] Robbie Rozelle: Like there's not a knowing wink. That I think honestly, the Edo in the film is more of a um problem than the South scene, and that's because he is playing it as if he's Mickey Rooney in Breakfast Antiphones.

[29:51] Jesse McAnally: Which is unfortunate.

[29:53] Robbie Rozelle: That is a problem.

[29:55] Jesse McAnally: I agree.

[29:55] Robbie Rozelle: But I think the movie just plays it too straight with that scene.

[29:59] Robbie Rozelle: Specifically with like Burnside himself. Like if it was just all the people around him doing this, but MAME still marries the guy that's like, you pick the cotton out of our field, MAME.

[30:12] Robbie Rozelle: Like he says something wild like that.

[30:14] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[30:14] Robbie Rozelle: I'm like, I'm not saying remove all those elements because it's obvious, like the mom is a ridiculous stereotype and everything like that.

[30:21] Jesse McAnally: And that's almost yeah, yeah, yeah.

[30:24] Robbie Rozelle: Um Burnside himself doesn't.

[30:27] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[30:28] Robbie Rozelle: It but but it also makes for a wildly rousing title number that closes the act.

[30:35] Jesse McAnally: Well, we just needed to r do Hello Dolly, but again.

[30:39] Robbie Rozelle: So MAME sort of, like I said, rises and falls on the women, and some great women have come and gone through it.

[30:46] Jesse McAnally: Who but who would be MAME now?

[30:48] Robbie Rozelle: That's a good question.

[30:50] Robbie Rozelle: Um, I want to ask Andrew first, because I know he has no concept and no guesses, so I'd want to hear what your pitch is.

[30:56] Andrew DeWolf: It's gonna be fun.

[30:57] Robbie Rozelle: For what?

[30:57] Andrew DeWolf: What am I what am I doing?

[30:59] Robbie Rozelle: Who would you pick to play MAME now if they had to do a Broadway revival?

[31:03] Andrew DeWolf: Oh fucking good lord, why are you asking me this?

[31:05] Robbie Rozelle: As I said, because I know you have no context and no ideas and your terrible names. Go.

[31:10] Andrew DeWolf: Fucking oh my god. Jesus, uh who's I I feel like MAME should be uh a middle-aged woman, uh, and I don't know any that are currently popular on Broadway.

[31:25] Robbie Rozelle: You couldn't even begrudge to have throw a guess.

[31:29] Andrew DeWolf: Who am I supposed to guess? I don't know any fucking actresses.

[31:32] Robbie Rozelle: Well, it gets better. Um hey, hey.

[31:37] Jesse McAnally: Trying to get him to like musicals one one musical at a time.

[31:41] Robbie Rozelle: We're not quite there yet.

[31:44] Andrew DeWolf: So I can't fucking name I can't fucking name any any people.

[31:50] Robbie Rozelle: You have met Broadway stars. You have met Broadway stars that I know half our audience would kill to meet, and you're just like, I can't even remember who they are after I meet them.

[32:03] Jesse McAnally: It's amazing.

[32:04] Andrew DeWolf: I might it's like a memory of a of a goldfish.

[32:08] Robbie Rozelle: Wow. Mame should be somebody who is elegant and daffy and funny, but doesn't know that she's daffy and funny.

[32:17] Robbie Rozelle: That is key. You cannot play it with like a broad wink.

[32:21] Robbie Rozelle: It sort of has to be like Ellen Green in Little Shop of Horrors, right?

[32:26] Robbie Rozelle: Has no idea that she's exactrial. She's you need Maud Apatau.

[32:33] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[32:33] Robbie Rozelle: No, but somebody somebody who is like elegant. Who is clearly raised in money in some way, but then sort of shed it all, but not quite.

[32:46] Robbie Rozelle: Um for me. It's like Melissa Erico, uh, Donna Murphy.

[32:52] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[32:53] Robbie Rozelle: Um Renee Elise Goldsbury would be interesting to me.

[32:57] Jesse McAnally: That would be a good one.

[32:58] Robbie Rozelle: Yeah. You need someone bigger than the you know who they'd try to sell you on, but I don't think it would work.

[33:05] Jesse McAnally: Who would be a Kristen Chenowitz?

[33:07] Robbie Rozelle: They would really try to sell it. Channel wants to do it.

[33:10] Jesse McAnally: I could see it working.

[33:12] Robbie Rozelle: I don't think it would be perfect, but I could see it working.

[33:14] Jesse McAnally: No, I think again, because it needs to be somebody who is so elegant.

[33:20] Robbie Rozelle: Mm-hmm.

[33:20] Robbie Rozelle: And so like there's a reason that like Christine Eversoll did it um at Paper Mill.

[33:26] Robbie Rozelle: And I think also at Hollywood Bowl with young Benjamin Platt as uh as the kid.

[33:34] Robbie Rozelle: Um I wish Marin Maisie was still here. Marin would be ideal.

[33:38] Jesse McAnally: Honestly, she would be Marin amazing is what she would be.

[33:42] Robbie Rozelle: Those things bum me out sometimes. Like well, you did that.

[33:46] Robbie Rozelle: Uh Carmen Cussack would be an amazing choice, which is my idea. Solely my idea. I did not steal that from anyone else.

[33:53] Robbie Rozelle: Not certainly not from me earlier, as I was saying that if Jerry Herman was alive, he would have written the Mrs. Harris goes to Paris musical for her, uh for Carmen Cusack.

[34:03] Robbie Rozelle: Um and now wait, I said earlier that somebody should write that. And who did I say? Um Shaman.

[34:11] Robbie Rozelle: Shaman, Mark Shaman. Mark Shaman and Scott Whitman would write a very good Mrs. Harris goes to Paris musical that Carmen Cusack could start in because they have a Jerry Herman sensibility to them.

[34:21] Jesse McAnally: Patty Murin would also probably be a good Gooch.

[34:24] Robbie Rozelle: Oh yes.

[34:25] Jesse McAnally: Yes.

[34:26] Robbie Rozelle: Patty Murin would actually be ideal as Gooch.

[34:29] Robbie Rozelle: Um she's so funny and likes to just pull faces.

[34:33] Jesse McAnally: Mm-hmm.

[34:35] Robbie Rozelle: Excellent cast. Honestly, what somebody should do, I think, is um Encore.

[34:43] Robbie Rozelle: Encore should just do MAME.

[34:45] Jesse McAnally: Mm-hmm.

[34:45] Robbie Rozelle: Because the last Broadway production, um, with Angela Lansbury was a flop.

[34:51] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[34:51] Robbie Rozelle: Um, yes.

[34:53] Jesse McAnally: All right. That being said, let's move on to our favorite section of the show.

[34:58] Robbie Rozelle: It's time for brevie.

[35:01] Jesse McAnally: It's Tom Fall.

[35:06] Robbie Rozelle: It's Tom Fall previews. I do want to talk a little bit about the reviews of the film meme for a second, because that thing got lambasted from every every side.

[35:15] Robbie Rozelle: Leonard Moulton said it was hopeless hopelessly out of date musical.

[35:19] Robbie Rozelle: Well, embarrass even those who love Lucy, calling Fred and Ethel Mertz.

[35:24] Robbie Rozelle: I met Leonard Malton. He had very soft hands.

[35:26] Robbie Rozelle: Um Pauline Kale, the New Yorkers wondered after 40 years in movies and TVs, did she discover in herself an unfulfilled ambition to be a flaming drag queen?

[35:36] Robbie Rozelle: Another another killer taked by Pauline Kale.

[35:39] Robbie Rozelle: Um Stanley Kaufman thought he pointed out that Ball would have made a perfect man had she played the role 15 years earlier.

[35:45] Robbie Rozelle: She looked too old and too stringy in the legs, too baso in the voice, and too creaky in the joints.

[35:51] Robbie Rozelle: And of course, Mame defended herself by saying, Mame stayed up all night drinking champagne. What'd you expect her to sound like? Julie Andrews?

[36:00] Jesse McAnally: Oh no.

[36:01] Robbie Rozelle: I don't think that's a good defense of bad singing.

[36:03] Jesse McAnally: No.

[36:03] Robbie Rozelle: My character wouldn't sing good. Think about it.

[36:07] Jesse McAnally: Think about it.

[36:08] Robbie Rozelle: In real life, it would have been bad. And of course, the iconic Gene Siskel review where he basically points out everything wrong with this film step by step that we've already talked about.

[36:18] Robbie Rozelle: That the film that the lens is covered in Vaseline, Lucy is terrible, and the very essence of Mame as a character, as I understand, is that she is able to stare old age in the face and make it slink away.

[36:29] Robbie Rozelle: And she does this without makeup, but her personality.

[36:38] Jesse McAnally: No, it's not a good movie.

[36:40] Robbie Rozelle: And I feel like all three of us agree it's not a good movie.

[36:43] Jesse McAnally: Um, but how about fuck the critics real quick? It's look time to look at the real critics and play the real favorite game.

[36:50] Jesse McAnally: Where we were real, where you, Robbie, and Andrew are going head to head.

[36:54] Robbie Rozelle: Right.

[36:55] Jesse McAnally: Where I'm gonna read you guys real letterboxed reviews.

[36:58] Jesse McAnally: And you have to guess just based on the review alone, whether they're a one star or a five star.

[37:02] Robbie Rozelle: Oh no.

[37:03] Andrew DeWolf: You can't let me win.

[37:05] Jesse McAnally: If I win, it will be embarrassing for you.

[37:08] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, this whole episode's been embarrassing for you, so you deserve something.

[37:14] Robbie Rozelle: Well, after that, Burnham.

[37:19] Jesse McAnally: You just got burn sided.

[37:21] Andrew DeWolf: Um, all right, Andrew, you're going first after that burn side.

[37:27] Jesse McAnally: Um ready, Andrew?

[37:30] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, let's fucking uh let's go.

[37:33] Jesse McAnally: Nice.

[37:33] Andrew DeWolf: My mom loves this movie.

[37:36] Robbie Rozelle: No, that's embarrassing.

[37:39] Jesse McAnally: Oh, jeez.

[37:40] Andrew DeWolf: Okay. Their mom loves it.

[37:42] Jesse McAnally: They said nice.

[37:43] Andrew DeWolf: I have to pick five stars. This is a positive review.

[37:44] Robbie Rozelle: That is a negative review.

[37:47] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, yeah, that makes sense. You know, I should have known that, obviously.

[37:52] Jesse McAnally: All right, Robbie, you're next.

[37:53] Robbie Rozelle: So ready.

[37:54] Robbie Rozelle: This film is overflowing with gay aesthetic, and I love it dearly.

[37:57] Andrew DeWolf: Five stars.

[37:57] Robbie Rozelle: That is a one star.

[37:58] Andrew DeWolf: All right.

[37:59] Robbie Rozelle: What the fuck?

[38:01] Andrew DeWolf: I was equally.

[38:03] Robbie Rozelle: Where the fuck do you find this shit? Like you go to sleep.

[38:05] Robbie Rozelle: You go to letterbox.com and then you adjust by rating, and then you're like, what the fuck?

[38:10] Andrew DeWolf: Wow.

[38:11] Robbie Rozelle: Okay, yeah, that makes sense.

[38:13] Andrew DeWolf: I love it dearly.

[38:14] Robbie Rozelle: One star.

[38:15] Andrew DeWolf: Lowest score possible.

[38:17] Jesse McAnally: All right.

[38:18] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[38:21] Andrew DeWolf: It was all fun and games until Lucy O'Ball put on that mask.

[38:25] Robbie Rozelle: And I think we both know what that's that fucking Santa Claus.

[38:29] Andrew DeWolf: It's a little horrific mask on the planet.

[38:32] Robbie Rozelle: It's a little creepy, although I don't know if it's uh if it's worth noting in my review of it.

[38:37] Andrew DeWolf: Uh no, no.

[38:39] Robbie Rozelle: I mean, fuck this. This is a negative review, but you like so far you've given us two positives.

[38:45] Andrew DeWolf: This is a fucking five star. They love this fucking thing.

[38:48] Robbie Rozelle: That is correct.

[38:52] Jesse McAnally: Robbie, in parentheses, ignore rating. 1968 National Tour starring Angela Lancebury.

[39:02] Robbie Rozelle: That's the review.

[39:04] Andrew DeWolf: That was the review.

[39:06] Robbie Rozelle: Oh god. I mean, one star.

[39:07] Andrew DeWolf: Sure, yeah, you should watch that.

[39:09] Robbie Rozelle: That is a one star.

[39:12] Andrew DeWolf: Ignore rating.

[39:14] Andrew DeWolf: All right, Andrew.

[39:17] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, yeah.

[39:18] Andrew DeWolf: Lucille Balls, Art Pop.

[39:20] Robbie Rozelle: Um Robbie, do you get that reference?

[39:22] Robbie Rozelle: Yes.

[39:23] Andrew DeWolf: You understand what they're trying to say?

[39:24] Robbie Rozelle: I sure do.

[39:25] Jesse McAnally: Okay.

[39:26] Jesse McAnally: Well, Andrew wouldn't give him more after this is over.

[39:29] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, don't explain it now because then I might be able to guess it.

[39:32] Andrew DeWolf: Um five stars.

[39:35] Jesse McAnally: This is a good this is a good thing.

[39:36] Robbie Rozelle: That is correct.

[39:38] Jesse McAnally: Oh okay.

[39:40] Robbie Rozelle: Robbie, explain what it means for it to be Lucille Ball's art pop.

[39:44] Robbie Rozelle: Art Pop is a Lady Gaga album that was um not uh as acclaimed as people think it should have been.

[39:54] Robbie Rozelle: I'm one of those people. I fucking love art pop. So it's sort of considered like her her lost masterpiece, even though it's widely available.

[39:55] Andrew DeWolf: Art pop.

[40:05] Robbie Rozelle: I was thinking it was art pop, like like the paintings of the Campbell suit cams or something.

[40:10] Jesse McAnally: Sure.

[40:11] Robbie Rozelle: No, that makes sense. I see I see how your brain tracks.

[40:14] Jesse McAnally: Um all right, Robbie.

[40:15] Robbie Rozelle: God bless Agnes Gooch. I don't give a shit what happens to Mame's grandnephew. He'll get through it. What happens to Gooch?

[40:20] Robbie Rozelle: I mean, I'm definitely biased because I sang Gooch's song as my finale in my senior recital.

[40:25] Robbie Rozelle: A fucking chorus. Five stars.

[40:29] Andrew DeWolf: That is a one-star.

[40:31] Robbie Rozelle: No. No, no, no. I'm I'm with you. That should have been a five. That should have been a five.

[40:36] Andrew DeWolf: Wow.

[40:37] Robbie Rozelle: I agree. But they're very naked about everything but Gooch. Nobody comes out here and is like and is like, oh well, I sang the song for my in in high school.

[40:47] Andrew DeWolf: One star. Get the fuck out of here.

[40:50] Robbie Rozelle: This person was.

[40:51] Andrew DeWolf: Andrew.

[40:54] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[40:55] Andrew DeWolf: Just when you thought it couldn't get any crazier, one of the old people hits you with the South will rise again.

[41:04] Robbie Rozelle: Just describes every family reunion you go to, Andrew, right?

[41:07] Andrew DeWolf: I I don't have any Southern family, thank God.

[41:10] Robbie Rozelle: Thank God.

[41:13] Andrew DeWolf: Um I don't even know what to pick.

[41:16] Andrew DeWolf: One's one star.

[41:17] Robbie Rozelle: This one's a win.

[41:17] Andrew DeWolf: That is correct.

[41:19] Jesse McAnally: And Robbie, last one. Andrew's two points ahead of you, so you can't get in, but let's just end on you anyways.

[41:24] Robbie Rozelle: Feels correct.

[41:25] Robbie Rozelle: What a trip.

[41:26] Jesse McAnally: That's the whole thing.

[41:28] Robbie Rozelle: One star.

[41:30] Jesse McAnally: That is a five-star.

[41:31] Andrew DeWolf: And Andrew, you have won the letterbox game.

[41:34] Jesse McAnally: I was I tried.

[41:37] Robbie Rozelle: Wow.

[41:38] Andrew DeWolf: You got robbed.

[41:39] Robbie Rozelle: You got stupid.

[41:41] Andrew DeWolf: The one where they sang it at their senior recital, that was a five-star.

[41:45] Robbie Rozelle: It was fucking way. I can promise you it was not.

[41:48] Andrew DeWolf: No.

[41:53] Robbie Rozelle: I get why it's a one-star.

[41:54] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, but they sang the song at their recital. They give it a five-star.

[41:57] Robbie Rozelle: The movie has one good moment. Like, we can't give it a five-star for one good moment.

[42:03] Jesse McAnally: How about we go into a mid-show and then we see what happens?

[42:12] Jesse McAnally: Hey guys, sorry to interrupt you in the middle of the show, but we've got a show at you. It's part of the job, you know. I'm sure you're sick of all the BPN ads, but now you get to have a properly host red ad in the middle about our own bullshit.

[42:24] Jesse McAnally: So today's show is brought to you by the extremely kind donations by our donors over at Patreon. Patreon's this beautiful place where you can come hang out with us.

[42:31] Jesse McAnally: And we have a bunch of commentaries. We did the Rugrats series. The Shmigadoon episode by episode coverage is coming back, which is exciting.

[42:39] Jesse McAnally: Shmicago, is it as good as season one? Probably better because you know there's no COVID restrictions, so we might actually have resolutions to every character this time.

[42:49] Jesse McAnally: Some characters might not just disappear for some reason. Or appear for one episode, and literally just obviously be like, oh, you you fulfilled the contractual obligation.

[43:00] Jesse McAnally: Bye. Um, but and also we have our Patreon meetups, which Robbie has joined us for before. How have you enjoyed those?

[43:07] Robbie Rozelle: On the Discord, yes, that's correct. Uh, as uh as an old, I didn't even know what a Discord was. And uh, you know, they say by your students you'll be taught, and I was taught. It's beautiful.

[43:19] Jesse McAnally: Fair enough. Thank you.

[43:20] Robbie Rozelle: Yes.

[43:21] Jesse McAnally: Anytime, anytime Robbie. Um, but our current patrons are Melissa Goldman, Daniel Rennex, Jessica Tampede, you and Casty, Monica Throw, Brent Black, LeVamu Stacey Coomb, Joseph Owens Green, Mary Lucio Cat, John Vanels, Russ Walker, Miz Gold Hell, Emily Gracie, Kyle Summer, Jana C, Scootin' the Technicolor Dream Code, Liz Lim, nothing is certain except Beth and Taxes, Desbian, Ren Collin, Rafael, Martina Salaz, Jessica T, Mitchell Young, Chai T Cup, Katie McDonough, Chris Marcote, KG, Marie Anastasio, Layla, RJ Norija, Charlie B, Bjorn Herman's, Toriana Frazier, Sammy the Most, Lopez, Lyanna Morton, Kaylee Blazier, Cinnamageddon Reviews, Villainous Mist, Sofiana Ali, the Omega Gake, Paige Pearson, Maddie Wargle, Alyssa Erdman, Anna Loscotova, Chesca Varet, Sarah Den Bleckier, Evan Ball, Zachary Torres Gathering Party before venturing forth, Rora Morasso, Mara Furloy, Captain Rod Tastic, Lisa L, Sarah Walsh, Nobody, What Did Boris Say, Puffy Boy and Summer.

They all give us a little extra financial support that helps us keep the lights on here, Musicals and Cheese. And they also get exceedingly and more exceeding weird ass names. So hey, make your name as weird as you can. And we could we'll have to we'll have to say it on the podcast. Looking at you, Puffy Boy.

[44:36] Andrew DeWolf: Puffy Boy, can you get any puffier? Um, yeah, um, we have a lot of fun over our Patreon. One of our consistent things is our Discord chat where you get to talk to me and Andrew throughout the day. Literally, today I was giving them like getting feedback on what they thought about Mame. Most of them are too young to know about it. So we have forgotten about it, except for that Christmas song. Let's get back to the show.

[45:07] Robbie Rozelle: Light the lights off. Dance your shoes off. That's what I opened my Birdland show with.

[45:13] Jesse McAnally: I bet you yeah, of course I did. Uh what do you think about it today?

[45:26] ♪ Musical number ♪

[46:21] Robbie Rozelle: It's it sets the tone properly. Because, like all Jerry Herman musicals, there wasn't a proper overture in the original production that was written for the album. Um, and Hello Dolly also didn't have uh an overture in the original production. Um, a sort of small semi-song opens the show, and then a big splashy number happens. And I think it's a weird juxtaposition to start right off. Cause I uh Saint Bridget is intentionally unpleasant to listen to.

[46:55] Jesse McAnally: Yep, yep.

[46:56] Robbie Rozelle: But then it leads like she slides down that banister.

[47:00] Jesse McAnally: Yep.

[47:01] Robbie Rozelle: Perfect. And life is great, and Angela Lansbury kills, but Christine Baranski is also fantastic when she performs this.

[47:09] Jesse McAnally: Uh-huh.

[47:09] Robbie Rozelle: Her dancing in it is kind of shopping. Because Christine Baranski is a Vera by like mentality.

[47:17] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[47:17] Robbie Rozelle: Like, if they made a movie, she'd be a Vera.

[47:19] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[47:20] Robbie Rozelle: But sadly, they never made a Mame movie ever.

[47:22] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, it's sad that didn't happen.

[47:23] Robbie Rozelle: Yeah.

[47:24] Jesse McAnally: Do you know they were going to do a TV version with Cher that Streisand was gonna direct in the 90s when Craig Zadan and Neil Meron were making all of like Annie, the 99 Annie and stuff.

[47:34] ♪ Musical number ♪

[48:47] Jesse McAnally: This is more like philosophy.

[48:49] Robbie Rozelle: Yes.

[48:50] Jesse McAnally: A lot of these songs are philosophy songs, right? Because we need a little Christmas as a philosophy song.

[48:55] Robbie Rozelle: No, we need a little Christmas as a Christmas song. Just shut the fuck up.

[48:57] Jesse McAnally: How do I leave leave studio? Is that what I hit?

[49:00] Robbie Rozelle: Yeah, you want to hit hit the X on the bottom.

[49:04] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[49:06] Robbie Rozelle: No, no. We need I'm gonna change my joke. No, we mean a little Christmases. It takes a woman from Hello Dolly.

[49:13] Jesse McAnally: Yikes. We'll get to that.

[49:16] Robbie Rozelle: Yes. Um, I like open a new window, but it also feels like a response to when I want. You know, as opposed to like it feels like other people want things from Mame, and this is like, no, we're not doing that. We're not playing that game. I think though, the way that it's set up is like Patrick says, Oh, we can't do this. Oh, wait, open a new window is is uh the stock market crash, right?

[49:40] Jesse McAnally: I think so.

[49:41] Robbie Rozelle: Yeah, and so isn't she singing to to the kid and she's uh telling him like here's here's how you should look at the world. That's what I thought. Maybe maybe I was thinking of it wrong though.

[49:52] Jesse McAnally: No, no, you're thinking of it right. Yeah. I'm pretty sure. This is like after she gets a like Patrick fucks with her when she's hung over and she's like, Oh, I I'm actually I like having you around twerp.

[50:03] Robbie Rozelle: Twerp. Yeah. I I'm I'm no Robert E. Lee, I'm sorry. Uh yeah, yeah, you're right. So, but it's uh here's the philosophy. We can't do that. Yeah, we can open a new window. Yeah, and it becomes like the theme because I it's today is the theme of the musical. Um open a new window is the theme of Mame herself, the character.

[50:25] Jesse McAnally: I agree. Um, let's talk about we need a little Christmas.

[50:29] ♪ Musical number ♪

[51:03] Jesse McAnally: Do we have to talk about we need a little Christmas? Just briefly, because I do want to talk about It Takes a Woman and how Jerry Herman just ripped himself off here. Um you know about this, obviously, Robbie.

[51:14] Robbie Rozelle: Sure.

[51:15] Jesse McAnally: They're the same song. I brought this up in our Hello Dolly episode. Um I brought it up now. Be it's just it's wild how no one's ever called him on it personally.

[51:26] ♪ Musical number ♪

[51:57] Jesse McAnally: Yeah. It's like it's like a little different, but I mean it's basically the same song.

[52:04] Robbie Rozelle: Yeah. Um, but is that song ever gonna get played at the mall in December? Probably not.

[52:11] Jesse McAnally: I will agree. This song has a life outside of the show. Beautiful. It is probably like the closest thing to a pop song, unless I'm incorrect, Robbie. Was any other song from this like a radio fave?

[52:24] Robbie Rozelle: Uh, yes. Huge song. The biggest hit from this show is actually uh if he walked into my life, because Edie Gourmet.

[52:33] Jesse McAnally: That makes sense.

[52:34] Robbie Rozelle: Edie Gourmet recorded it, and it was a it.

[52:38] ♪ Musical number ♪

[53:38] Jesse McAnally: Was that right after the Broadway show, or was it many years after?

[53:41] Robbie Rozelle: Um it was in 67, so yeah.

[53:44] Jesse McAnally: So that's right after the Broadway show.

[53:45] Robbie Rozelle: And she won the Grammy for best female vocal performance for it.

[53:49] Jesse McAnally: Is it like a pop version of it, or do they perform it as if it's in the show?

[53:53] Robbie Rozelle: I think it's about the same. You can't really popify this. I it's not like Ariana Grande's cover of popular and then just claiming it's a new song.

[54:02] Jesse McAnally: Right.

[54:03] Robbie Rozelle: Uh no, it was a straightforward, it's a stunning you can watch it on YouTube. It's a stunning because she is a screamer. What do you we can s talk about if he walked into my life right now because I love that song. It is a proper 11 o'clock number. And I love that we have an original 11 o'clock number, which even in that time was kind of rare to get.

[54:24] Jesse McAnally: Correct. Um and my god, is it a good song?

[54:30] Robbie Rozelle: It is a well constructed song. It is a full of pathos. Like it is the biggest moment of pathos in the entire story. As long as he needs me. You know what I mean? It's like a huge 11 o'clock number for the leading lady. And Angela, when she does it, she has every move of that song down pack.

[54:50] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[54:50] Robbie Rozelle: And then they make the baffling ass decision in the movie to have Lucy just stare off into space and the song is just playing over her face.

[54:59] Jesse McAnally: Well, it's not uncommon for the movie to make a fucking stupid decision.

[55:05] Robbie Rozelle: This one, like, is the most baffling. It's like the last song. Why would you do this? Why wouldn't you let your actress act?

[55:13] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, sure. I I don't know. Like they were I know for a fact with this movie, they were trying to do an Oscar play. Then they saw their final edit and they moved it back four months. Because they knew they had a stinker on their hands. So they thought we put it out in January. It c it was literally like a fuck you with January kind of thing. Um but if you walked to my life, great. And it feels like one of those moments of where the book and the score come together, they reference each other. It's perfect.

[55:43] Robbie Rozelle: Yeah.

[55:44] Jesse McAnally: I love the song so much. Speaking of songs that I think are great book songs, it's bosom buddies.

[55:50] Robbie Rozelle: Yes, perfect. Perfect.

[55:55] ♪ Musical number ♪

[57:14] Robbie Rozelle: Um, which is an interesting thing. But this is the closest thing to like a proper act one or act two opener, where it's like, we're gonna give you a little fun song to sit down during, and then you know what? Fuck it. You guys have been good through act two or act one. Let's give you Gucci's song, which is plot-ish, but fuck it. Let's fun. Yeah. Um, I love Gucci's song. I think it's great. Uh I first uh heard it when Andrea McArdle did it in Jerry's Girls, which is exactly how you think it sounds. Alter the drape of a drop of my bodice and soften the shape of my br. I follow directions and made some connections. But what do I do now? Think this Miss Prim would have opened a window as far as her whim the line.

And who would suppose it was so hard to close it? Oh what do I do now? It's um screamed uh and wonderful. And then of course, Emily Skinner's it uh is supremely good from the Kennedy Center production. I it sets up everything character, the conflict of the character, here's what I did, now what? It's it's a great character song. I wish Gooch had a more presence, you know. Yeah, she she has more of a sort of she doesn't have a more of a sung presence, but she has got more of like a life presence. And I do love Jane Connell in the film because you just sort of see her lurking every so often, or like very pregnant and wandering, trying to stay out of the way. And it's a very ego list performance.

Yeah, it is. She it is a very effective. I don't care if I look ridiculous, I'll throw all this Christmas ornaments on me, I will look ragged, I will look terrible, I will do all these things. Like even as a kid, and the first time I was shown this was shown by my godmother, because I was like, I love the music, man. She's like, Well, you love the music, man. You know, Robert Preston's in this movie. Like, let's check that one out. Um I'm just like, looking at this poor woman, uh-huh. And I could tell, like she's got a rough. Yeah. And I was young. I had to be like four or five, and I'm just like, this woman's going through. God bless. And and that's uh I honestly think it might be the best performance in the film.

Like I said early, like earlier, she and B. Arthur escaped unscathed because part of it was because they are so lived in because they did it for so long. Jane Connell actually played Mame on the Road. Ooh. Yeah. Is there any footage of that? I don't think so. There might be like maybe her from a talk show uh or something of that time, like a variety show singing a number from it, but I don't think so. I find her of like did Jane Connell do anything else big with her career? Um related. Yes. I saw her in something on Broadway. So yes. Uh, what was it though? Obviously, a standout performance if you can't remember it. No, I saw her in Moon Over Buffalo. Okay. And then I saw her in uh the Full Monty.

She isn't that? Yeah, she replaced Kathleen Freeman, who died during the run. Um singing the things could be better. Yeah, get any worse, I don't think so. Um she she did a lot. Uh she was nominated for a Tony for um uh Me and My Girl. She's she's incredible. Yeah, absolutely incredible. Yeah. Um, is there any other songs you want to talk about? You I mean, do you really want to end on MAME? The big Hello Dolly number? I think we sort of have to because of the way it builds. Yeah, strong and bringing the humming and singing it's not to get out of hand. Since you run it, Silva Dick Siva to Dixie Lou, you made Tom bees and hungry. Seem like the Bill of Fair Meme. You came, you saw, you punked and absolutely nothing is the same.

Your special fascinational proved to be inspirational. We bring God just sensational man. Because it starts kind of smoking. Right? And just a banjo, which is uh, I think Philip Lang is who did the orchestrations for the show. Um the orchestrations for the show are very good. Um, but specifically, like the way that builds from like nothing, and like the just the picking of the banjo and the you, right? Mame and builds and builds and builds. Um, and he writes a hummable fucking show tune. This whole album's gonna be in my head for another week. And if for a while, all I've been singing was I'm independently owned. So, uh, grateful. That being said, what is our overall thoughts on MAME and our cheese ratings?

Andrew, why don't you go first, please? I I wasn't really wowed by it. I had to watch the movie, of course, which didn't help my opinion of it, I guess, since I watched that most recently. Sure. It wasn't very good. Sure. Um, I don't know. I I I'm not a huge fan of these type of shows where it's just like not very much like there's not a lot of story, and it's a lot of just um some someone carries the show like it's a leading lady type show. I've never been a big fan of these. Um but I understand there's a place for 'em, and they were very popular, so my opinion doesn't matter. It matters on some level. On some level it doesn't, as far as like it's just not a show for me. And that's okay. You're wrong, but that's okay.

As far as a cheese rating, you have to give like something like upper class, but kind of fun. Um and I I'm trying to think of what type of cheese that would be. I want to I want it to be like one of those little cheese cubes that you'd get on a on a platter at a party. You know what I'm saying? What type of cheese is that usually? I I don't attend these type of parts. Cheddar or Kobe Jack cube. Yeah. I don't want to give it cheddar, so we'll give it we'll give it Kobe Jack then. Makes sense to me. And I think it'll give it a little cheese cube. I think that's a reasonable choice. What about you, Robbie? Um I love Mame. I uh am almost blind to its flaws because it is so joy-inducing. Um and I defy you to not be in a good mood after listening to the cast album of it.

That one I'll give you. Can't be done. Uh and so for that, I'm thinking of a cheese that I put in my mouth and go, yes, this is satisfying. Uh maybe like a truffled brie. I like that. That's a good one. Um I have conflicting feelings about MAME. I love the album. I don't think it works as a show. I don't think I went into like the structural issues I feel this show has. Specifically, once we introduce the fiance character, I just don't care about the show anymore. Sure. I just am like, I'm waiting for the show to be over. There's nothing fun. There's nothing. It's just kind of like, uh not don't these people suck? And then I'm like, there's still 30 minutes to go. And it's worth it to get to if he were walked in my life again.

Like, but you know, there's still a lot of show left. Um, so I think it needs some work if they were to ever revive it again. Um, or they could just put Lee and Michelle in it and kick out someone else. You know, that's what happens with revivals that don't work. We just put Leah Michelle in it and then hope for the best. Yeah. Um I think that they could make it a lot better if they if they did a a more modern revival. I don't know. Apparently, there was a pr a film getting made starring like a modern adaptation of Patrick Dennis's books where Tilda Swinton was gonna play the anti-main character, and that would have been interesting. No. Tony Colette would be great too. Honestly, ideal. She she sings, she does comedy very well.

But it wasn't a musical, it was gonna be based on the book. Right, like behind me. Um, but like Tilda Swinton's a little too weird. Yeah, I I see that. Yeah, Kate Bland Chat, however, sure. Podman to sale. If y'all haven't seen Tar, go see Tar. Go see it. Go see it at your revival theater or whatever. Go see it at the Dollar Cinema. Oh, we don't have those here anymore. No, we don't have them here anymore. I just found out I have one. It's in stone in Albany. Albany? Yeah. Oh, is that where you are? Yeah, I'm up in uh Saratoga Springs. 315 baby. I'm 607, so I get it. Um, and I am going to be giving this Montreal Jack cheese um served on a Vaseline um cheese tray because of all the Vaseline schmeared on the cameras of the film name.

On that note, Robbie, this was wonderful. Top ten of the year we'll have to see. Ha ha! What a damn joy. Thank you so much for having me back. Of course. And like literally in two hours, you're about to go see Sweeney Todd live on Broadway. Demon of a bitch. Barabi, promote all your wonderful stuff for the world to see. Hey, thanks so much. Um, Robbie Rosell, uh, D.Va Robbie on all social media platforms, because it's very easy. Um, I'm very findable. Uh, I'm playing Birdland in June, and I have a semi-hit solo album that you can stream on Spotify right now. Please do that, because I would like you three cents. In fact, wow. Yeah. Why don't you end the show with one song from his solo album that you pick out, just so everyone can have a little bit of Robbie to go out of.

A song that I pick out? Um, I was gonna have Andrew pick it up, but if you want to pick it out, Ryan. Go with God. I'll pick one. Do it. I will pick my favorite one. I'm gonna listen through the whole thing. That makes me so happy. You will laugh. You're gonna get probably two or three cents from me. And maybe shed a tear. It is a great album, sincerely. I I think it is one of the my favorite song will be your least favorite, I'm sure. He sings Captain, like, no, what is it? Hooks Tango. Hooks Tango's on there. Um, a fairitable shmorgus org from uh Charlotte's Webb. The rat song. The rat song. We got some some classy picks here. They really are damn fucking good picks. Thank you guys for listening.

Please follow us on Spotify Stitcher Musicals with cheese. We're on Twitter at Cheesy Me Schools, Patreon Musicals of Cheese, Instagram Music Schools for Cheese, YouTube page musicals for cheese. We have a patron only podcast called Patreon with Cheese. We're covering Shig Migacago. Um, is Ariana DeBoes gonna allow allowed to be sexy this season? We'll find out. Email us at musical theater lives at gmail.com. Our keeper the cheese is Juliet Antonio. Keep a note. Is this the top 10 contender? We'll have to w see in December. Um this show is edited by Andrew DeWolf, and I think he's doing a fucking fantastic job. Really? Uh thank you to the Broadway Podcast Network for having us on the platform and for not kicking us off for you know all the general slander we say against Broadway people.

You know, kids! I don't know what's wrong with these kids today. Kids who can understand anything they say. Noisy, crazy, sloppy, lazy lopers. And while we're on the song there, kids, they are just impossible to control. Kids with their awful clothes and their rock and roll. Why can't they be like we were perfect in every way? What's the matter with kids today? I don't mind the moonlight swims. It's the twerking that hurts. How will we ever beat the Russians? Kids. What the fuck is Pariscope? Kids, they are just impossible to control. Kids, with their awful clothes and their rock and roll. Why can't they dance like we did? What's wrong with Sammy Kay? I was doing a press event here a couple months ago, and I called myself a Charles Nelson Riley with a Paul Lynde rising.

Norm Lewis heard that from across the room and let out a belly laugh, and he said, uh, you know, you know what uh Paul Lynn said to the baby, don't you? And I have heard this story, but I needed to hear it out of Norm Lewis's mouth. So I said, tell the room, Norm Lewis. It uh it seems that uh Paul Lynde was on an airplane and had a few many to drink as he was wont to do, and uh there was a baby in the row behind him screaming and crying, and finally uh he turned around to the mother and said, if you don't shut that baby up, I'll fuck it. What's the matter with Kim to it?