This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:05] Jesse McNally: Hello, I'm Jesse McNally.

[0:07] Andrew DeWolf: And I am Andrew DeWolf.

[0:09] Jesse McNally: And welcome to Musicals with Cheese, a podcast where I tried to get Andrew to like musical theater week by week and show by show.

[0:16] Jesse McNally: And Andrew, don't you love living in the modern world of 1989?

[0:21] Andrew DeWolf: I love the modern world of 1989.

[0:24] Andrew DeWolf: That's why I am in a basement looking for a rare piece of music so that I can try out for a really cool uh opera show that I'm going to star in in the present year of 1989.

[0:35] Jesse McNally: Yes.

[0:36] Jesse McNally: Oh my gosh, look at this.

[0:38] Jesse McNally: It's an opera um written by a man who might have murdered a singer.

[0:42] Andrew DeWolf: Wow, that sounds right up my alley, Jess.

[0:45] Andrew DeWolf: I'm gonna walk away for a second, and oh my gosh, is that blood coming out of the music?

[0:50] Andrew DeWolf: Wow, it really looked like it for a moment, but it's gone now, so I guess it's totally fine for me to now go and sing this piece.

[0:57] Jesse McNally: Oh, go sing it, uh, go there.

[0:59] Jesse McNally: Oh no, Andrew!

[1:01] Jesse McNally: Look at that!

[1:02] Jesse McNally: It's a thingy, it's gonna smack you in the face all the way back to the 1800s and in London.

[1:08] Andrew DeWolf: Oh my god, I got transported to a different continent and year.

[1:13] Andrew DeWolf: Because I sang the wrong piece of music.

[1:17] Andrew DeWolf: Bro, what the fuck is this?

[1:19] Jesse McNally: Wait, what what why?

[1:22] Jesse McNally: In case you haven't picked up what we're throwing down, we're continuing our Phantom May.

[1:27] Jesse McNally: It's Phantom of the Opera May!

[1:29] Jesse McNally: Ooh, the Phantom of the Opera closed, and now we're talking about Phantom of the Opera throughout May.

[1:33] Jesse McNally: But everything except for the stage show Phantom of the Opera.

[1:36] Jesse McNally: And this week, we are talking about one of the wildest adaptations, but also strangely one of the best adaptations of the Phantom of the Opera.

[1:45] Andrew DeWolf: It's it is weird that it's both, but I also agree.

[1:50] Andrew DeWolf: It has so much good in it, and then also some of the most baffling choices I had ever seen.

[1:57] Jesse McNally: This week we are talking about the Phantom of the Opera, 1989.

[2:03] Jesse McNally: Q the Music.

[3:12] Jesse McNally: But the Phantom of the Opera.

[3:14] Jesse McNally: It was written by Jerry O'Hara and Duke Sandifer with music by Misha Siegel.

[3:19] Jesse McNally: Um directed by Dwight H. Little, based on Gaston LaRue's Phantom of the Opera.

[3:25] Andrew DeWolf: Kind of.

[3:25] Jesse McNally: I I mean you could you could say that.

[3:28] Jesse McNally: It's at least inspired by.

[3:31] Jesse McNally: It has a deep inspiration by it.

[3:33] Jesse McNally: Um, it had uh look, I wouldn't call it in name only, but it's getting there.

[3:39] Jesse McNally: But the film premiered theatrically on November 3rd, 1989 in 1468 venues, ranking sixth at the domestic box office, with 2 million dollars in its first weekend.

[3:53] Jesse McNally: The film closed three weeks later, having gross 3.9 million dollars.

[3:58] Jesse McNally: The plot of the Phantom of the Opera is when Christine Day, not Dae, D A Y, discovers a rare piece of music.

[4:07] Jesse McNally: She brings back to life its composer, Eric Dessler.

[4:11] Jesse McNally: Through her fascination with the music, she is transported back to Dessler's time, 1889, and is thrust into stardom by singing his opera as no one else can.

[4:22] Jesse McNally: But against the exciting backdrop of the opera lurks a hideous danger.

[4:27] Jesse McNally: The Phantom.

[4:28] Jesse McNally: And Christine soon finds herself the object of his relentless desire.

[4:33] Andrew DeWolf: I like how that plot is so contrived that they list the Phantom and Eric Dessler as two different individuals.

[4:41] Jesse McNally: Yes.

[4:42] Jesse McNally: When not even the movie is trying to posit that a little bit.

[4:45] Andrew DeWolf: Well, I mean, the original source material, maybe.

[4:48] Andrew DeWolf: Maybe it has a mystery.

[4:50] Jesse McNally: It has a mystery, but that is not the mystery.

[4:53] Andrew DeWolf: No, the yeah.

[4:54] Andrew DeWolf: Well, her name's Christine Day because she's American in this one.

[4:57] Jesse McNally: Yeah, she's American, not Swedish.

[4:59] Jesse McNally: Um, people.

[5:00] Andrew DeWolf: Nor is it French.

[5:02] Andrew DeWolf: It doesn't take place in the opera Garnier.

[5:06] Andrew DeWolf: Takes place in just British opera.

[5:08] Jesse McNally: We did do a commentary on this a few years ago on our Patreon, which I still think is a lot of fun if you go and listen to it.

[5:14] Jesse McNally: But I I don't know.

[5:15] Jesse McNally: I keep coming back to this one, and I w we weren't originally gonna talk about it, but then I made the jump decision that we had to.

[5:22] Jesse McNally: We had to talk about this one because it's probably one of the better adaptations of the story, despite having literal time travel brothels and you know, blood orgasms.

[5:34] Andrew DeWolf: There is so much weirdness, but it's just too fun.

[5:41] Andrew DeWolf: Too much fun to watch to not talk about.

[5:45] Andrew DeWolf: And it's a brisk like 90 minutes, 93 minutes.

[5:49] Jesse McNally: I think one thing to say about this is if you are someone who really likes like the the Weber Phantom, this is probably not for you.

[5:58] Andrew DeWolf: Honestly, I disagree.

[6:00] Andrew DeWolf: I think this is probably the most for you outside of that.

[6:03] Andrew DeWolf: I think this is a good like gateway from that.

[6:07] Jesse McNally: Okay, well, what's your reasoning?

[6:08] Andrew DeWolf: Because my reasoning is that the Phantom is the least sexy in this that he has ever been, probably.

[6:15] Jesse McNally: Yeah, but he's also somehow the like most emotionally like open in this.

[6:20] Jesse McNally: Like the scene where he's watching Christine like perform and he's like a little kid excited, like that feels very much like the teddy bear version of the phantom in Weber.

[6:30] Andrew DeWolf: Like, there's a good mix of both, and I think that this rides that line.

[6:34] Andrew DeWolf: There is the fact though that this is also just a a gruesome slasher movie.

[6:39] Jesse McNally: Oh, very much so.

[6:40] Jesse McNally: He is the reason he's so unsexy is because he is he just loves murder.

[6:46] Andrew DeWolf: Like, yes loves murder.

[6:48] Andrew DeWolf: His it's his favorite thing in the whole world.

[6:51] Jesse McNally: Yes.

[6:52] Jesse McNally: Let's have that drink.

[6:55] Andrew DeWolf: Literally, in the first murder, he looks like he is having an emission of some kind, and he gets splattered with blood on his face and the mix of it.

[7:04] Andrew DeWolf: It's he just he loves murder.

[7:07] Andrew DeWolf: And not only does he l love murder, he loves skinning his victims and wearing it.

[7:12] Jesse McNally: That is the the most I think that might be the most biggest departure outside of the time travels.

[7:18] Jesse McNally: Instead of like a normal mask, like a cloth mask or whatever, he wears a human flesh mask over his face to make him look normal.

[7:27] Andrew DeWolf: Honestly, is kind of a cool idea.

[7:29] Andrew DeWolf: It's a brilliant idea.

[7:30] Jesse McNally: Yeah, if if you're like, how do we make the phantom into like more of a horror monster?

[7:36] Jesse McNally: Yeah, that's a that's a pretty good step.

[7:40] Andrew DeWolf: It's an interesting take, but it I it feels like it was done for a marketing reason just to promote uh Robert Englund because he looks like Freddy.

[7:48] Andrew DeWolf: And often the makeup does look Freddy-esque, but I don't think it's ever like a one-to-one on Fr as Freddy.

[7:55] Jesse McNally: There's definitely a lot of overlap.

[7:59] Jesse McNally: I mean the makeup underneath like his face is very Freddy-esque.

[8:06] Andrew DeWolf: They're definitely trying to cash in.

[8:07] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, there's no doubt.

[8:08] Andrew DeWolf: They're trying to cash in on a Nightmare Elm Street's like popularity in Robert Englund.

[8:13] Jesse McNally: This is 1989, so this is what, when Nightmare Elm Street like four or five would have been coming out.

[8:20] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, and the director i this is his follow-up is to Halloween 4, uh, the return of Michael Myers.

[8:29] Jesse McNally: So he does that and then he does this.

[8:32] Jesse McNally: Halloween four.

[8:34] Jesse McNally: The return of Michael Myers.

[8:37] Andrew DeWolf: Maybe nobody knows how to stop it.

[8:43] Jesse McNally: I mean, this is probably better than Halloween four.

[8:47] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know.

[8:48] Andrew DeWolf: Halloween four isn't bad.

[8:49] Andrew DeWolf: Um, Halloween four has vibes.

[8:51] Jesse McNally: Okay.

[8:52] Jesse McNally: I like Halloween one and three.

[8:55] Jesse McNally: I don't remember two very well, but I think that one's okay.

[8:58] Andrew DeWolf: Halloween two is just kind of eh.

[9:00] Andrew DeWolf: Like Halloween 2 is just like Halloween again.

[9:03] Andrew DeWolf: And Halloween 4 is Halloween again, but with vibes.

[9:07] Jesse McNally: Is Halloween 4 the one where he's a it's a a cult?

[9:10] Andrew DeWolf: No, that's Halloween 6.

[9:12] Jesse McNally: Okay, so I'm thinking of Super.

[9:14] Jesse McNally: Do I know too much about the Halloween franchise?

[9:17] Andrew DeWolf: Probably.

[9:18] Andrew DeWolf: There is a lot of movies there.

[9:22] Jesse McNally: Sorry, Phantom of the Opera 1989, though.

[9:27] Jesse McNally: It's a beautiful looking movie.

[9:29] Jesse McNally: It looks creepier than probably any other Phantom adaptation that I had have seen.

[9:36] Andrew DeWolf: Uh we got a couple.

[9:38] Andrew DeWolf: There's one that might look a little creepier.

[9:39] Jesse McNally: Well, that I've seen.

[9:41] Jesse McNally: I haven't seen some of them right as of right now.

[9:45] Jesse McNally: Um, but I really like the they go down into this like disgusting dungeon that he has, and it's all these like candles.

[9:54] Jesse McNally: Um it's like it's unrealistic, like, but it looks really cool.

[9:59] Jesse McNally: They they're not they're willing to to bend the rules of reality a little bit to make things look cooler in this movie.

[10:07] Jesse McNally: But it's also you don't feel the budget.

[10:10] Jesse McNally: Like, this is obviously not doesn't have the biggest budget in the world.

[10:13] Jesse McNally: It was originally gonna be a canon film.

[10:15] Jesse McNally: Something called some unknown company.

[10:17] Jesse McNally: I think it's like Orion like knockoff.

[10:20] Jesse McNally: Um, I what is it, 21st century or something like that?

[10:22] Jesse McNally: It's like 20th Century Fox, but not quite.

[10:25] Jesse McNally: Um produced it.

[10:26] Jesse McNally: 21st Century Film Corporation, you know.

[10:29] Jesse McNally: Maybe if somebody read it really fast, they would be like, oh, 20th Century Fox.

[10:33] Jesse McNally: You know, on a sheet of paper, they'd be like, 21st Century Fox?

[10:36] Jesse McNally: Whoa, that's a big deal.

[10:39] Jesse McNally: You know, we got we gotta lock that in.

[10:41] Andrew DeWolf: Oh my goodness, the scam, the scams.

[10:46] Jesse McNally: I really feel like this film didn't have to go as hard as it did.

[10:50] Jesse McNally: But the biggest thing that really draws you in is Robert Englund's performance.

[10:56] Andrew DeWolf: You love the music.

[10:59] Jesse McNally: I am the music.

[11:05] Jesse McNally: Our souls are one.

[11:09] Jesse McNally: Now you are married to the music.

[11:12] Jesse McNally: You cannot serve two masters.

[11:15] Andrew DeWolf: He isn't playing Freddy.

[11:17] Andrew DeWolf: I'll say that.

[11:18] Andrew DeWolf: Like the makeup team probably wanted him to look a bit like Freddy.

[11:21] Andrew DeWolf: The director probably was like, Come on, dude, can't be Freddy.

[11:25] Andrew DeWolf: But he didn't he doesn't play Freddy.

[11:28] Andrew DeWolf: He's trying to be a bit more sympathetic than like Freddy could really ever be.

[11:33] Andrew DeWolf: And I think he actually does a really good job of the making the Phantom a different character.

[11:39] Andrew DeWolf: And uh strangely sympathetic.

[11:41] Andrew DeWolf: Like I w like, he's still very much Mr. Murderman.

[11:44] Jesse McNally: When we did the commentary on this, I think I had a lot of praise for the portrayal of the Phantom because I I had we had done Phantom of the Opera and Love Never Dies.

[11:55] Jesse McNally: And I was like, I don't like these overly sympathetic portrayals of the Phantom where he's like a lover boy.

[12:03] Jesse McNally: I don't I don't enjoy that.

[12:04] Jesse McNally: I want him to be Murder Man.

[12:06] Andrew DeWolf: You really like Wert Murderman.

[12:08] Jesse McNally: Yeah, and then we watch this and it's like holy shit, he's murder man.

[12:13] Andrew DeWolf: Everyone dies.

[12:15] Andrew DeWolf: I only choose the time and place for a few.

[12:18] Andrew DeWolf: Murderman is m his main goal, and most they are often afraid to make a murder man.

[12:24] Jesse McNally: Uh I'm not here.

[12:26] Jesse McNally: I mean, um, maybe that's a little dumb considering what we're covering at the moment, which is mostly like, you know, um, Phantom of the Mall.

[12:36] Andrew DeWolf: Honestly, Phantom of the Mall though is not nearly as good as this, and they came out the same year, so yeah, you're right.

[12:42] Andrew DeWolf: So, out of which horror Phantom of the Opera version was with strange music, I think this is the better one.

[12:48] Andrew DeWolf: Something I really like is even though he's horrible murder man, they still make him like obsessively in love with Christine.

[12:57] Jesse McNally: They go like one step farther than usual with that, whereas usually he's obsessively in love with Christine, and that's kind of it. But here he's obsessively in love with her, and he follows her through time, like a hundred years into the future, and finds her again because he is forever as long as his music exists or some ridiculous nonsense like that, and they will always find each other.

[13:26] Andrew DeWolf: We had a bar, remember?

[13:29] Jesse McNally: Forever! It's really weird. Can we can we talk about the time travel thing?

[13:34] Andrew DeWolf: Do we have to?

[13:35] Jesse McNally: Like, like what what is there to say?

[13:38] Andrew DeWolf: Well, why do you think they did it?

[13:39] Jesse McNally: I know why they did it. Um, you know why they did it.

[13:43] Andrew DeWolf: I do.

[13:43] Jesse McNally: So this was written planned to be not one film, but two. And England was under contract to appear in a sequel. Um, but it was cancelled after the film's poor reception. And for it's been under numerous rumors, but the idea was that the second one would be all in the 1980s or modern day.

[14:03] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, so there was gonna be a sequel that only See, honestly, that's a cool idea.

[14:09] Jesse McNally: Yes. Because namely because from what they show of the future version of the Phantom, he's actually really cool.

[14:16] Andrew DeWolf: It's so cool.

[14:17] Jesse McNally: And they actually gave us a proper unmasking.

[14:20] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, and and um she sees him and and she's like, oh well, that's that looks like the guy, and he she I think she assumed she was dreaming the whole time travel thing. Um, but so she like goes home with him, but he has modern anti-aging stuff and whatever.

[14:36] Jesse McNally: Like proper faces, like it's so cool looking. And the pitch was that he was going to be living in the subway systems and fall in love with a blind woman.

[14:46] Andrew DeWolf: Interesting. I I feel like I would have just stuck with what they had, honestly.

[14:50] Jesse McNally: I love his he has like a studio where he he has the the keyboard and he has the music written out as a MIDI file. Like, that would have been really cool.

[15:01] Andrew DeWolf: I agree, and honestly, that's when the film because the film loses you and g grabs you back a few times. England confirmed that in in a 2004 interview, that script had been written, and while he personally felt it was superior to the first film, it had never been filmed in any capacity, and he basically was like, I wanted to make that one. That was the one.

[15:20] Jesse McNally: What was left of the script became 1992's uh Dance Macabre, which I have not seen, and no one else has apparently either.

[15:29] Andrew DeWolf: Someone loves to dance macabre.

[15:32] Jesse McNally: Who is willing to pay the price? Uh, not much connective tissue can be found aside from Robert Englund. When asked in 2012 whether a sequel could ever happen, he said it would be overwhelming to see a sequel, and the chances of it happening are highly unlikely.

[15:50] Andrew DeWolf: Basically, no.

[15:52] Jesse McNally: But I would I almost find that interesting. He's not a bad choice for the phantom. He wouldn't be my first choice, but he's actually, if I were to rank my phantoms, he would definitely be somewhere in the top five to three category.

[16:04] Andrew DeWolf: He he really does a pretty good job.

[16:06] Jesse McNally: I think the only thing we don't really get from him is I don't think he sings.

[16:10] Andrew DeWolf: No, but he does instruct. Like this that's what sets him apart from a lot of other ones.

[16:16] Jesse McNally: Well, that actually makes sense. Because I mean, the reason that he needs Christine is that she is his voice, right?

[16:23] Andrew DeWolf: I like that. It's like Phantom of the The Paradise, where the Phantom can't sing.

[16:28] Jesse McNally: Yeah, where he can't sing and and he has to get someone else to sing for him.

[16:33] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I I like that aspect to him. And I like that it's not he just likes her to like her. It's not because HD looks like his mother, or that there's like some divine intervention. It's just like, oh, I like her because I like her.

[16:47] Jesse McNally: He likes her because she's real, and that's why he hates Carlotta. That's why he has to behead Carlotta and put it in the shoop. She wasn't real enough for him.

[16:57] Andrew DeWolf: What is the the plot line with the guy who like is just so frustrated with Carlotta? He's like so mad at her. Is he he's like one of the owners of the opera house?

[17:09] Jesse McNally: I love that. It's such a there's so many little fun things going on in this movie that his reaction, she she's like Carlotta's like, I can't go on, and he's so mad about it, but it's like perfectly reasonable because she finds a a skinned body skinned alive in her closet.

[17:29] Andrew DeWolf: This is one of the more reasonable Carlottas. It's like, of course, she doesn't want to go on. I mean, Jesus. I wouldn't. You're lucky she's ever gonna come back.

[17:41] Jesse McNally: I agree. I think that. Alright, I'm gonna be a little mean. Jill Scholan as Christine. Not that great.

[17:49] Andrew DeWolf: Oh my god. Chris!

[17:52] Jesse McNally: Chris, are you okay? Not that great in what way.

[17:56] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know. She just feels like Zoe Dechanel putting a period piece.

[18:00] Jesse McNally: I I think that, yeah, she feels too modern, and I think it's they should have gotten an actress that wasn't American to perform.

[18:09] Andrew DeWolf: But they did this whole thing and they justify it, sort of. They made they made a choice and they stuck with it, and goddammit, whatever.

[18:18] Jesse McNally: The thing is the budget that they're on. Are they gonna find the perfect actress to perform this role? I don't know. They found Molly Shannon for the the Manhattan segments before she was anyone.

[18:33] Andrew DeWolf: Okay. Like that's a weird thing that I keep forgetting every time I turn this movie on, is that Molly Shannon is like, we're in a Molly Shannon sandwich that starts and ends with her.

[18:43] Jesse McNally: Like, oh, it's you. I keep forgetting. It's nice to see you. Also, I do want to say something I always make sure to stay through the credits to see. Um, there's a disclaimer at the end of the film that says this motion picture is not associated with any current or prior stage play or motion picture of the same name. You know, just uh make sure ALW done come and start hurting them.

[19:09] Andrew DeWolf: I really like this movie. I really, really do. Did other people like this movie? I guess it's time to find that out.

[19:16] Jesse McNally: It's time for our favorite segment of the show where we compare our opinions to those of the real theater critics over there on letterbox.com. It's time for previews.

[19:25] Andrew DeWolf: It's time for previews.

[19:33] Jesse McNally: Alright, Andrew. This is the letterbox game where it's one star or five star, and you have to tell me which one it is based on the review alone. Are you ready?

[19:44] Andrew DeWolf: Uh, as ready as I can be.

[19:46] Jesse McNally: Alright. There's some chaotic ones here. I forgot. This is such a like niche movie. I'm I'm guessing there's some weirdos in the in the letterbox.

[19:57] Andrew DeWolf: Alright, first one. Christine and Meg were lovers.

[20:01] Jesse McNally: Five stars.

[20:02] Andrew DeWolf: I and I I kind of agree.

[20:04] Jesse McNally: I tend to agree. I I agree, and that is correct.

[20:07] Andrew DeWolf: Next one. Will Robert Ingland, no D, ever get to play a non-deformed, non-murderous person?

[20:15] Jesse McNally: No?

[20:15] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, okay then. You know, I think Robert Englund chooses his roles and kind of enjoys playing this kind of stuff. Uh I mean, there's a reason he kept playing Freddy for for like a decade. He's just that good at it. He didn't have to. He if he didn't want to, he was pretty famous at that point, I bet. He probably could have gotten some other fucking role.

[20:40] Jesse McNally: Uh this is a one star because they're angry that their their best boy is getting bad roles.

[20:45] Andrew DeWolf: You are correct. And he really doesn't get the best roles.

[20:49] Jesse McNally: Oh, he is a good actor. Like, he is a there's a reason why he stuck around as Freddy for so long. Didn't he show up in uh Stranger Things or something?

[20:57] Andrew DeWolf: I I haven't seen him.

[20:58] Jesse McNally: Yeah, but who didn't show up in Stranger Things if they were around in the 80s?

[21:03] Andrew DeWolf: That's true. That's true. Alright, next one. The Applebee's in Mechanicsville has great service. Drinks were great and arrived in these cool chalices. And the food was great. Overall, enjoyable experience.

[21:15] Jesse McNally: Now that's even good in the neighborhood. So what now?

[21:19] Andrew DeWolf: Uh the apple is this a reference to the movie that I'm missing.

[21:23] Jesse McNally: I have no idea.

[21:24] Andrew DeWolf: It was just in the reviews. And I was like, how can I not include that?

[21:30] Jesse McNally: This is in the reviews for the 1989 Phantom of the Opera.

[21:34] Andrew DeWolf: It is.

[21:34] Jesse McNally: The Applebee's and Mechanic.

[21:37] Andrew DeWolf: So are they reviewing the movie or are they reviewing the Applebee's?

[21:40] Jesse McNally: They say the Applebee's is great, so five five stars for an excellent Applebee's experience.

[21:48] Andrew DeWolf: That was a one star for excellent Applebee's experience.

[21:51] Jesse McNally: I don't understand it either, kids.

[21:54] Andrew DeWolf: What in the fuck?

[21:56] Jesse McNally: Next up, why the fuck is it in London?

[21:58] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, I would say it's because the original book is in London, but I don't actually know if that's the case.

[22:03] Jesse McNally: France.

[22:04] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, so I have no fucking clue why it's in London. Uh is it because uh in music theater, if something is French, we make it British?

[22:14] Jesse McNally: So wait, Miz, everyone has British accents.

[22:20] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, one star.

[22:21] Jesse McNally: They're mad.

[22:22] Andrew DeWolf: That is correct. Are you gonna are you no, you're not falling for a perfect game because you got the Applebee's and Mechanicsville?

[22:29] Jesse McNally: There's a Mechanicsville near me, but they don't have an Applebee's, I don't think.

[22:32] Andrew DeWolf: Have you checked?

[22:34] Jesse McNally: I should check. Maybe this is uh another upstate New Yorker.

[22:37] Andrew DeWolf: Next up, so Phantom Core.

[22:40] Jesse McNally: Um, tr I mean Phantom Core is it's a literally a phantom movie, so I I is it even Phantom Core?

[22:47] Andrew DeWolf: Okay.

[22:48] Jesse McNally: Is that like an Apple core?

[22:50] Andrew DeWolf: Um, that is correct. It is a five stars. Um, next up, and only two more, don't worry. Damn, those scars are nasty, but I smash a psycho bitch.

[23:00] Jesse McNally: What in the fuck?

[23:04] Andrew DeWolf: Uh this is one of the only Phantom of the Opera adaptations where he does get laid. He goes to prostitutes, and he treats them respectfully and just pays them, and there's no violence towards them. And you know what? Good on this movie. Sex worker is real work.

[23:19] Jesse McNally: It actually is weird. He know he does you you would expect him to kill them, but other people at the brothel. He does he does do the weird thing where he's like insists to call them Christine, but I mean I guess he is paying them, so and he paid them well, like getting gold coins.

[23:37] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, and he doesn't kill them afterwards, which he you know he won't. I mean, bare minimum. The only thing he loves more than Christine is murder.

[23:47] Jesse McNally: Yeah, five stars for this one.

[23:50] Andrew DeWolf: That's a one star.

[23:51] Jesse McNally: Um last one. I always said you can't do Phantom of the Opera without time travel.

[23:57] Andrew DeWolf: It's so true. Honestly, every other Phantom version, once you watch this one, it's gonna be like, where's the time travel plot?

[24:04] Jesse McNally: Five stars for the time travel plot.

[24:06] Andrew DeWolf: That is a one star, and that wraps up our letterbox game. I did my best.

[24:11] Jesse McNally: Can you imagine another like classic literary novel being adapted this wantonly?

[24:20] Andrew DeWolf: I'm sure like Romeo and Juliet, it's been done.

[24:23] Jesse McNally: I guess, but I wouldn't call like within the last 200 years, Romeo and Juliet's like 600 years old. Maybe I'm exaggerating.

[24:30] Andrew DeWolf: Maybe.

[24:31] Jesse McNally: Like, what would be like an Agatha Christie, but also in space.

[24:36] Andrew DeWolf: I wanna say it's probably been done, but I'm trying to think of an example, and I don't know if I can. I know they did a Doctor Who episode of Agatha Christie where there was Bumblebees flying all around.

[24:45] Jesse McNally: Okay.

[24:45] Andrew DeWolf: Space Bumblebee, sorry. I I didn't want to get the vernacular wrong. There were Space Bumblebees because Doctor True is Doctor Who is a very important show for very important people.

[24:55] Jesse McNally: Doctor Who from the writers of Space Cop. How about we go into a mid show?

[25:08] Andrew DeWolf: Hey guys, sorry to interrupt you in the middle of the show, but we've got a shoo at you. I joined this for a dollar. Today's show is brought to you by the extremely kind donations by our donors over at Patreon.

[25:21] Jesse McNally: Andrew! What is Patreon?

[25:22] Andrew DeWolf: Man, Patreon is where you could go if you want to give us a little bit of money to support the show.

[25:28] Jesse McNally: Money.

[25:30] Andrew DeWolf: You also get some stuff for yourself as well, since we have a lot of commentary tracks, extra podcast episodes, just all sorts of shit up on there. You can request episodes from us when we're not doing Phantom May.

[25:40] Jesse McNally: Phantom May.

[25:45] Andrew DeWolf: Phantom of the Opera in May.

[25:49] Andrew DeWolf: Just all sorts of stuff.

[25:50] Jesse McNally: Yeah, and also it's gonna heat up a lot more in June, sincerely.

[25:54] Andrew DeWolf: Right now, uh Jesse's in the middle of a bit of a thing that is taking up an inordinate amount of his time, and he's apologizing for the lack of content up there to our dearly loving patrons.

[26:06] Jesse McNally: But more is coming.

[26:08] Andrew DeWolf: Are you trying to say that Phantom May is actually a ploy so that you don't have to do as much work on musicals with cheese?

[26:14] Jesse McNally: It is almost a hundred percent that.

[26:17] Jesse McNally: I don't have to watch new things.

[26:21] Jesse McNally: I already know how I feel about these guys.

[26:26] Jesse McNally: Making a movie might be the thing that kills me, and God forbid if I want to make my little podcast a little easier.

[26:33] Andrew DeWolf: Alright.

[26:34] Jesse McNally: Our current patron.

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[27:42] Jesse McNally: If you would like to join them in supporting us and get all the fun perks over there, they're gonna heat up in June, I promise.

[27:47] Jesse McNally: We're gonna start meeting up again.

[27:49] Jesse McNally: The Discord is popping!

[27:50] Jesse McNally: Come join us over at Patreon.

[27:52] Andrew DeWolf: Alright, let's get back to it.

[28:01] Jesse McNally: So we did talk about how this takes a lot of departures away from what is usually in a Phantom of the Opera adaptation.

[28:09] Andrew DeWolf: We in previous episodes talked about we we did LaRue comparisons, and we had like a little checklist of what we think are things that are essential to the Phantom of the Opera story, including things like a chandelier crash, the Poonjab Lasso, um Carlotta, and things like that.

[28:27] Jesse McNally: So we do have Carmada.

[28:28] Jesse McNally: We are actually in an opera house, which so far in Phantom May we have not been, I am discovering.

[28:34] Andrew DeWolf: Well now we are.

[28:35] Jesse McNally: Well, I mean, Phantom of the Paradise, it's not an opera house, but it's a theater venue venue.

[28:41] Andrew DeWolf: It is it's close enough, I would say.

[28:43] Jesse McNally: Arguably close enough.

[28:44] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, yes, yes.

[28:46] Jesse McNally: Um the Phantom does commit murders.

[28:48] Andrew DeWolf: I don't think he did any with a noose.

[28:51] Jesse McNally: Um, I'm gonna argue one.

[28:53] Andrew DeWolf: The very the very first one we see.

[28:55] Jesse McNally: It's a rope, but he doesn't like roped tied around his leg kind of.

[28:59] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, but he disembowels him.

[29:01] Jesse McNally: So so so far, Phantom of the Mall has been more accurate.

[29:04] Andrew DeWolf: So far, but this has on that front.

[29:07] Jesse McNally: This has one aspect that is in very few adaptations, and that is Christine at her father's grave, which is one of the most interesting scenes in the book because he just starts throwing skulls and stuff.

[29:18] Andrew DeWolf: Um it's a weird, it's a weird scene in the book.

[29:21] Jesse McNally: And here he just kidnaps her, which makes sense. Why like why is it always in her dressing room and not here?

[29:27] Andrew DeWolf: This is a much more interesting place to kidnap someone.

[29:29] Jesse McNally: There's also the really cool thing with that where he plays the violin.

[29:34] Andrew DeWolf: What do I do now?

[29:48] Jesse McNally: Father.

[29:51] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, he plays the violin in the in the original book too.

[29:55] Jesse McNally: Yeah, so like there I don't know. There is there is some actual LaRue inspired.

[30:00] Jesse McNally: And I think this is the only version of this story that starts with the title, Gaston LaRue's Phantom of the Opera.

[30:08] Andrew DeWolf: I think that's only because they wouldn't want they don't want to confuse it with uh Lloyd Weber's, but they also do want to they they didn't want to false advertise it as being a part of Lloyd Weber, but they did want a false advertiser to being connected to Freddy Kruger somehow.

[30:23] Jesse McNally: Yes.

[30:24] Andrew DeWolf: They did want to do that.

[30:25] Jesse McNally: We do have a lot of murder, which is not like it.

[30:29] Andrew DeWolf: We have a Raoul equivalent.

[30:30] Jesse McNally: I think his name's like Philippe or something.

[30:32] Andrew DeWolf: No, isn't his name Richard?

[30:34] Jesse McNally: No, Richard, yes.

[30:35] Andrew DeWolf: I'm thinking of another one.

[30:36] Jesse McNally: They Americanize the main characters' names for whatever reason.

[30:40] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, except Carlotta.

[30:42] Jesse McNally: Yeah, except Carlotta.

[30:43] Andrew DeWolf: But I guess that's because there's a long tradition in American cinema of Europeans being uh the bad guys.

[30:52] Jesse McNally: I guess.

[30:53] Andrew DeWolf: Do you know who this Doctor or this guy who plays Richard is?

[30:57] Jesse McNally: Uh no, who is it?

[30:59] Andrew DeWolf: His name is Alex Hyde White, and he played Reed Richards in the Roger Corman version of the Fantastic Four.

[31:06] Jesse McNally: Really, that is that is a credit.

[31:09] Andrew DeWolf: That is a credit.

[31:10] Andrew DeWolf: I think it's and also Bill Nyhe from many a things, including the Pirates of the Caribbean franchise, is literally just Martin Barton, who Martin Barton, goddammit.

[31:19] Jesse McNally: Um he's the detective that's like on the hunt.

[31:27] Andrew DeWolf: Is the detective uh part of the original?

[31:29] Jesse McNally: Nope.

[31:30] Andrew DeWolf: I guess the closest thing you would have is the Persian, the Daroga, who's like kind of helping out the Phantom.

[31:37] Jesse McNally: Um they do have the mirror in this, like the actual trick mirror.

[31:41] Andrew DeWolf: Um, she doesn't kidnap her through the mirror, but it is there.

[31:44] Jesse McNally: He also has like a bunch of tunnels, because like how else is he getting like these bodies to these weird locations?

[31:51] Andrew DeWolf: Like he must have other ways.

[31:52] Jesse McNally: There's the tunnels, but he also has like there is something magical about him because he does like Batman teleport when fighting the broods in the in the city.

[32:02] Andrew DeWolf: That's true.

[32:03] Jesse McNally: Well, I mean, i okay, we didn't get into it totally, but he made a literal deal with the devil.

[32:09] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, he did.

[32:10] Jesse McNally: Uh uh a small person is the devil, and while watching Faust, he flashes back to making that deal.

[32:17] Andrew DeWolf: And it he's just a normal guy.

[32:19] Jesse McNally: Like, there isn't like a birth deformity like it usually is, or like a like acid being spilt on him or fire.

[32:28] Andrew DeWolf: Um, he is cursed with ugliness.

[32:31] Jesse McNally: Kind of like Phantom of the Paradise.

[32:33] Jesse McNally: He made a contract with the devil that people would love him for his music, but that's all they would ever love him for.

[32:39] Andrew DeWolf: Honestly, yeah, this this has a lot of different connections to Phantom of the Paradise now that I'm thinking about it too.

[32:46] Jesse McNally: Because they're doing, and maybe they are in the original book, but they're performing Faust.

[32:50] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, and they often perform Faust in uh Phantom of the Opera adaptation.

[32:54] Jesse McNally: Yeah, but then there's also the actual story connection to it as well, with him selling his soul to the devil.

[33:02] Andrew DeWolf: So there's some there's some stuff with that.

[33:04] Jesse McNally: But then, much like Phantom of the Paradise, his soul is directly connected with people knowing his music, which is why when Christine pulls his music out again, he's suddenly born again.

[33:13] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, if that's how you want to interpret that.

[33:16] Jesse McNally: How do you interpret it?

[33:17] Andrew DeWolf: I guess I interpret it as like the music, like that the music itself is what keeps him alive, and he didn't return necessarily.

[33:27] Jesse McNally: Gotcha.

[33:30] Andrew DeWolf: Then why like the reason why I was thinking that is because of the bloody music and like all that when she finds it.

[33:37] Jesse McNally: Yeah, I don't I don't know.

[33:38] Andrew DeWolf: How dare we unpack this film that was thrown together very blatantly.

[33:44] Jesse McNally: Alright.

[33:45] Andrew DeWolf: Look at us treating it like it's an actual movie.

[33:48] Jesse McNally: There's another section, there's another thing we need to talk about, and that's the kills.

[33:53] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[33:53] Jesse McNally: There's a lot of kills on this.

[33:55] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, you have actually what is your favorite kill in this movie?

[33:58] Jesse McNally: Oh man.

[33:59] Jesse McNally: Jeez.

[34:00] Jesse McNally: The thing is the kills themselves aren't that creative or great.

[34:04] Jesse McNally: Like, there's elements I like of a lot of them.

[34:08] Jesse McNally: Like, I really like the fact that he skinned the person alive and shoved them in in Carlotta's uh closet, I guess.

[34:14] Andrew DeWolf: I don't even know what that was.

[34:15] Jesse McNally: Wardrobe.

[34:16] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, like a little wardrobe and she's in the bath.

[34:18] Jesse McNally: Yeah, I really like that.

[34:19] Jesse McNally: Like, that's a very site.

[34:21] Andrew DeWolf: I mean that's another connection to Phantom of the Paradise, the Phantom torturing Holt Carlotta in the shower and or bath.

[34:27] Jesse McNally: I like I like Carlotta's death elements of it.

[34:30] Jesse McNally: I don't love the execution.

[34:32] Andrew DeWolf: I don't like the like entire head getting pulled out of the soup.

[34:35] Jesse McNally: That's a little silly.

[34:36] Andrew DeWolf: That's kind of what I loved.

[34:37] Jesse McNally: I think it was so silly.

[34:39] Andrew DeWolf: That's what I loved about it.

[34:41] Jesse McNally: It was so stupid.

[34:42] Andrew DeWolf: Maybe it's just too it doesn't look good enough.

[34:46] Jesse McNally: Like I wanted it to look a little better.

[34:48] Andrew DeWolf: Like I don't know.

[34:49] Jesse McNally: Maybe if they found like part of her like head or something, I don't even know.

[34:54] Jesse McNally: Or if it was like a shot of it floating in the soup instead of them pulling it out.

[34:58] Andrew DeWolf: That would have been interesting.

[35:00] Jesse McNally: Um but speaking of that, um, this is also includes the Eric and the Red Death, which is very rarely included in adaptations outside of like the original 20s film as well as the musical.

[35:14] Andrew DeWolf: And his costume looks incredible.

[35:16] Jesse McNally: It looks wonderful.

[35:18] Andrew DeWolf: What will I think when I see you?

[35:27] Jesse McNally: Yeah, his him actually showing up in that costume.

[35:31] Andrew DeWolf: He looks very good.

[35:33] Jesse McNally: And the weird guy that's like, who is that?

[35:36] Andrew DeWolf: I must know.

[35:37] Jesse McNally: I love the rat catcher.

[35:41] Andrew DeWolf: That's also that's also from the book.

[35:44] Jesse McNally: There's so many good things in this.

[35:47] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, yeah, it is strangely one of the more accurate versions of it.

[35:52] Jesse McNally: I mean, which what other kills because I'm missing a bunch.

[35:55] Andrew DeWolf: Like, there's a whole fuck ton of kills.

[35:57] Jesse McNally: I think one of my favorites is when he cuts off a dude's head and rolls it towards his friend.

[36:03] Andrew DeWolf: Was that was that on the street or was that in the That was on the street, and then he also kills the guy in the bath.

[36:10] Jesse McNally: But honestly, my favorite has to be when he kills Richard.

[36:16] Jesse McNally: It's by stabbing him and setting him on fire.

[36:19] Andrew DeWolf: It's so bizarre.

[36:20] Jesse McNally: He he has like a bunch of candles, and it's like he accidentally lights him on fire by like wrestling with him, but then he pulls out one of the things, one of the candle things that is like holding a candle, and it's like a knife for some reason, and he stabs him with it.

[36:38] Andrew DeWolf: It's so weird.

[36:39] Jesse McNally: It is, but name another Phantom adaptation that has the balls to kill Raoul.

[36:43] Andrew DeWolf: Imagine if that's how fucking dies.

[36:46] Jesse McNally: Well, he doesn't die.

[36:47] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[36:48] Jesse McNally: He just gets nerfed.

[36:50] Andrew DeWolf: You know they wanted to kill him, though.

[36:52] Jesse McNally: It would have been better if he died, honestly.

[36:56] Andrew DeWolf: The weirdest thing.

[36:58] Andrew DeWolf: So Love Never Dies is actually based on a book called The Phantom of Manhattan.

[37:03] Jesse McNally: And this is ridiculous.

[37:06] Andrew DeWolf: Can we just write can we write our own story, Phantom of, and then just insert something?

[37:10] Jesse McNally: We literally can.

[37:11] Andrew DeWolf: There's like the Disney Channel Phantom of the Megaplex.

[37:13] Jesse McNally: There's a ton of those.

[37:14] Andrew DeWolf: Um Phantom of the Muppet Theater.

[37:16] Jesse McNally: You know what? I'm into it.

[37:17] Andrew DeWolf: Get Jared Butler back.

[37:20] Jesse McNally: Um, but in the Phantom Manhattan, you the it's Andrew Lloyd Weber commissioned that book by Frederick Forsyth.

[37:25] Andrew DeWolf: And the way that they make sure that you know that the Phantom is the father of this child, who I think has a different name in the book, is because Raul got into a duel and the guy shot his testicles off, so you know.

[37:40] Jesse McNally: So you know he can't possibly have kids.

[37:42] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[37:44] Jesse McNally: And you know what? Andrew Lloyd Webber made some choices in that adaptation decided, you know what I'm not gonna keep that one.

[37:49] Jesse McNally: Rowell's like, wait, this child can't be mine.

[37:52] Jesse McNally: I lost my balls in a horrific accident.

[37:55] Andrew DeWolf: And a horrific dueling accident.

[37:58] Jesse McNally: I went too far with CBT.

[38:01] Andrew DeWolf: It's over for me.

[38:05] Jesse McNally: I what do you I think my favorite part of this is honestly the final scene with um not the final final scene, but like when she's back and she goes to his apartment and then she turns on the music and then she just tears his face off.

[38:18] Andrew DeWolf: That is so good.

[38:19] Jesse McNally: Yeah.

[38:20] Andrew DeWolf: That is like this movie has faults, but like almost the time travel thing was worth it for that moment.

[38:26] Jesse McNally: I feel like the time travel thing at the beginning, you're like, what the fuck?

[38:30] Andrew DeWolf: Like, why are they doing this?

[38:31] Jesse McNally: But then at the end, you're like, Aw, nice.

[38:34] Andrew DeWolf: Like, and the final shot.

[38:38] Jesse McNally: It's a little ridiculous, but and he's the way he looks.

[38:42] Andrew DeWolf: Robert Englund's look at the end of this movie is like modern phantom. He looks like the yuppiest kind of douchebag that you'd find in like the theater scene. A very relieved admirer. I thought we lost a star of our show there for a minute. This is Mr. Foster, Mr. Producer and Major Backer. Well, I guess that makes me an authority on how you'll be spending your time for a while. Robert Englund, I think he plays two types of characters, and it's um it's Freddy Kruger, obviously. And not Freddy Kruger. And then like he's like usually this yuppie type guy. Yes. I'm thinking of him playing himself in uh Nightmare on Elm Street: New Nightmare. Uh and like that's his other character when he plays himself.

But like he auditioned for Luke Skywalker, like that was his type for years. Imagine if he played both those roles. If he was Freddy and Luke Skywalker. I mean, Mark Hamill has been like serial killers. I mean, he's been the Joker, obviously, but like other things like Briggsby Bear and shit like that. Like, yeah, but how iconic would it have been to be Freddy Kruger and Luke Skywalker? Would he still be Freddy Kruger if he was Luke Skywalker? Would he be typecast? I feel like he wouldn't have gotten that role. Well, they probably wouldn't have been able to afford him on the original uh Nightmare on Elm Street. He was kind of a name. Like he has like the Shakespeare credits. He was on V, which is a very popular show at the time. Um, so he had something to his name. Um, he does get to show his more like theatrical performance side in this.

[40:18] Jesse McNally: Oh, we should just talk about the one song though, the Don Juan Triumphant song by Misha Singao.

[41:24] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, because basically there's two songs in this. There's the Faust song, which I'm pretty sure is not written for this movie. Yes. That is used in a lot of things. You know that one. Yeah. Yeah. So it's that. They do that. A lot. And then there's the other song. Don Juan Triumphant. Which is the one that's going to be a good one. And that song supposedly is written by uh Eric Dessler. Allegedly. Although we I mean, I think we actually know who wrote it. I don't I don't know his name. Misha Singigo. Singao. Um, but goddamn, it's a fucking banger. He fucking knocked it out of the park. They play it throughout the whole thing. It never gets old. It really doesn't, and it's so short, but it's just like, god damn.

And the best one is the one they build to in the credits. Like that best that's sweet. Like they play it like a little bit, like he plays it on the violin a lot. He plays it, she sings it on like the piano. Every time there's a different variation, it's never just the same version, so it never gets old.

[42:28] Andrew DeWolf: Now there is a time paradox of this song.

[42:33] Jesse McNally: Yeah.

[42:33] Andrew DeWolf: Um, she learns the words from his sheet music in the future.

[42:37] Jesse McNally: Yes.

[42:38] Andrew DeWolf: Uh, and then she travels back in time and remembers the words. And when she first sings along to his song, the Phantom implies that he didn't have words for it. He was like, How did you know I haven't written words for it yet?

[42:53] Jesse McNally: So are you suggesting she literally went back in time?

[42:57] Andrew DeWolf: I think that's what the movie is. I think she literally went back in time, remembers the words from when she was in the future, and then gives him the lyrics for the song. And then he writes them down in the past, and she finds them in the future, which is how she knows them when she goes to the past.

[43:18] Jesse McNally: So there is a time paradox where how does she know the lyrics if he didn't write them, but she gave them to him because she already knew them because of it.

[43:28] Andrew DeWolf: Also, present day Christine says she recognizes this. It sounds familiar. There's so much going on with the fucking time travel thing.

[43:37] Jesse McNally: We can't.

[43:38] Andrew DeWolf: Because I see your time travel paradox, but she also knows it in the present at the beginning.

[43:43] Jesse McNally: I don't fucking know.

[43:46] Andrew DeWolf: I know this. I've heard it before.

[43:48] Jesse McNally: Oh man.

[43:50] Andrew DeWolf: It's a wild choice that does not pay off even a little bit.

[43:55] Jesse McNally: Well, no, it does. It does. But as far as a narrative goes, uh what? Who thought of this? Whose idea was that?

[44:03] Jesse McNally: On that note, Andrew, why don't we rank these among the other Phantom of the Opera adaptations we have watched for Phantom Month and others?

[44:11] Andrew DeWolf: We already have it ranked.

[44:13] Jesse McNally: I forgot.

[44:13] Andrew DeWolf: We already ranked it.

[44:14] Jesse McNally: Let's just remind people of your ranking.

[44:16] Andrew DeWolf: You have number one, Phantom the American Musical, um, number two, Phantom of the Paradise, then the Andrew Lloyd Weber, Phantom of the Opera, then you have this.

[44:23] Jesse McNally: Are you gonna rewatch?

[44:26] Andrew DeWolf: I gotta move it up.

[44:27] Jesse McNally: Really?

[44:27] Andrew DeWolf: I think this is better than the Weber one. I think I just enjoy this more. It's short, it's sweet, it's goofy, it's stupid. I love it. It's really just more up my alley, like, as far as like what I'm looking for in a movie or in a show. It's just it's a piece of entertainment.

[44:45] Jesse McNally: Yeah.

[44:46] Andrew DeWolf: Not that the Weber one isn't entertaining. It it is. But there's a long bits of not much happening in the Weber musical.

[44:53] Jesse McNally: Yeah, that's that's the issue I have with it more, is like the Weber one, there's there's like big moments where you're like, oh fuck yeah. And then there's a lot of just like, well, when do we do the next thing? Whereas with this one, he's either doing some weird pristine shit, they're singing a badass song, or he's just murdering people just for fun. You know, like there's always something happening. As far as like stage or like time on screen, this one probably has more than most. He is a presence throughout, unlike other ones that try to build him up. I think it's because they knew Robert Englund was a star and they wanted to focus on him, but I think overall, it actually improves the experience of the movie a lot.

[45:33] Jesse McNally: I think so too. I don't think it was an intentional choice based on like narrative. I was but it works, and we're happy about it.

[45:40] Andrew DeWolf: Is this really what it feels like is um this is a lot of horrible corporate decisions to try to cash in on a bunch of trends. Accidentally making art.

[45:52] Jesse McNally: Just accidentally made something fun. Like it's just that's just how this ended up working out.

[45:58] Andrew DeWolf: I will say that um I don't know if you've watched the um Shudder series In Search of Darkness.

[46:05] Jesse McNally: I have not.

[46:06] Andrew DeWolf: Um it's like three-part documentary about 80s horror, and each one is like four hours long. They do do a segment on this. They cover almost every 80s horror film ever made. And they do do a segment on this, and Robert Englund did talk about it, and he's like, Yeah, I like it. It's fun, it's like different.

[46:22] Jesse McNally: Yeah, I mean, I think it's a fun I think it's a fun thing to watch. And I don't know if this has been like forgotten necessarily, but I I'm it's tough for me to judge because I've known about it for a while now. I feel like the fandom with the pH, I mean, really has connected with it, but outside of that.

[46:40] Andrew DeWolf: It's it's a little bit forgotten. I feel like this is a this is a movie that has a lot of cult potential. Not as much as say Phantom of the Paradise, but no. But I can imagine people watching this like horror fans, but also I think it's a nice horror gateway. Because it's not disgusting, and you kind of know what's coming if you've seen Phantom of the Opera. So if you like the Phantom of the Opera musical and you're like, well, it would be a fun like little gateway into a horror slasher film. I honestly think this isn't a bad one. I think if you really like Phantom, this is a fun watch. Uh and if you like Phantom and you like horror, and you've ever thought, dang, what if Phantom was just a little bit scarier?

[47:19] Jesse McNally: That's fair enough.

[47:19] Andrew DeWolf: But what is your overall? I mean, we gave our overall thoughts, but what is your cheese rating, Andrew?

[47:24] Andrew DeWolf: I feel like you have to give it like a cheese pizza for the pizza face, you know, like the Freddy Kruger pizza face. We all love a good Freddy Kruger pizza face. So, I mean, it's it's kind of a tacky thing to give it, but I think cheese pizza is what I'm gonna give it.

[47:42] Jesse McNally: Alright, and I am going to give this. I don't want to give it cheese pizza. I mean, Pepper, you were giving it a cheese pizza just because of cheese. Um, I'm gonna give this flame boiled, like, you know, like you know the cheese that you get that they like actually burn on a plate until it's crunchy, like the Greek cheese.

[48:01] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, yeah.

[48:03] Jesse McNally: I don't know what that's called.

[48:05] Andrew DeWolf: Um, yeah, what the fuck is that called?

[48:08] Jesse McNally: Saganaki.

[48:11] Andrew DeWolf: Ah.

[48:12] Jesse McNally: Flaming Saganaki. Um, yeah. Um Saganaki Flaming Greek cheese. Obviously, we have more to say on our Patreon, because you can check out our commentary on this thing and watch it along with us. Um, yeah, I think it's great. Come join us through our original adventure. Where Andrew got to see the bloodgasm for the first time, and we had to unpack all the emotional trauma of this horror.

[48:38] Andrew DeWolf: And you can have an excuse to watch the movie.

[48:41] Jesse McNally: Yeah, and also, like, technically, I I gave people the movie on Patreon. It's not the easiest thing to find. Uh, so I just uh gave it to them. Stealing is cool, but you know what else is cool? Our patrons. Thank you guys for listening. Please follow us on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher at Musicals with Cheese. We're on Patreon at Cheesy Musicals, we're on Twitter at Cheesy Musicals, we're on everything at Musicals with Cheese. Just fucking look at us. Look us up, we're gonna be good. Email us at musicaltheaterlives@gmail.com. Our keeper of the cheese is Juliet Antonio.

[49:13] Jesse McNally: Um, here is some ASMR, but I'm gonna do it with a line from this movie. Everyone dies. I just choose the time and place for few.

[49:23] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, that was my best Robert Englund impression.

[49:26] Jesse McNally: Oh fuck. We didn't we didn't mention. I wanted to talk about for one second where he almost says love never dies.

[49:33] Andrew DeWolf: Alright.

[49:34] Jesse McNally: Let me say this, then we can talk about it. Um thank you to the Broadway Podcast Network for having sound to platform and for not kicking us off for talking about the dreaded CBT.

[49:43] Andrew DeWolf: Um BPN and CBT.

[49:46] Jesse McNally: Alright, talk about it.

[49:47] Andrew DeWolf: Oh my god. At the end of the movie, he says he is he's in the future, and he comes back and he says, um, he says love, and then he pauses and music, and then he pauses, and he's like, our eternal or something like that. And it's like, you were so close, you could have just said it. You could have just said it.

[50:09] Jesse McNally: Only love and music are forever.

[50:13] Andrew DeWolf: You know what love never dies is like was the tagline for Brahm Stoker's Dracula movie.

[50:18] Jesse McNally: Are you kidding me?

[50:20] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, that was literally the So every time I see that poster, I'm like, ah, that's where whoever got it. Wouldn't it have been incredible though if there was a phantom property that said love never dies in it before fucking Love Never Dies came out?

[50:33] Jesse McNally: Yeah.

[50:34] Andrew DeWolf: We didn't talk a ton about the Phantom's one-liners.

[50:38] Jesse McNally: Uh, they're not very good.

[50:40] Andrew DeWolf: You're suspended.

[50:41] Jesse McNally: And then he suspends them on a rope.

[50:43] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, and then stabs him.

[50:45] Jesse McNally: Yeah.

[50:45] Andrew DeWolf: And then is this what you wanted?

[50:48] Jesse McNally: Slaps across the face with the money.

[50:49] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[50:50] Jesse McNally: It's um his one-liners are not very good.

[50:55] Andrew DeWolf: And on that note, we'll see you next time on Musicals with Cheese.

[51:08] Jesse McNally: Oh my auntie, but my shadows. My heart is overflowing.

[51:21] Andrew DeWolf: It's kinda like that, right?

[51:23] Jesse McNally: Yeah, you know, there's actually a pretty good version of it on Spotify by some guy named like Sergei something.

[51:29] Andrew DeWolf: Ooh.

[51:29] Jesse McNally: Ooh. Uh Sergei Penkin has a Don Juan Triumphant has a pretty good version of it.