This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:05] Jesse McAnally: Hello, I'm Jesse McAnally.

[0:07] Andrew DeWolf: And I'm Andrew DeWolf.

[0:09] Jesse McAnally: And welcome to Musicals with Cheese, a podcast where I try to get Andrew to like musical theater week by week and show by show. And today marks the end of our Phantom Month.

[0:21] Andrew DeWolf: May, but also kind of in June, and also kind of in April. Depends on how Andrew gets this episode out.

[0:24] Jesse McAnally: We're trying to get this out in the last day of May. Look, we're going out of Phantom Month, not with a bang, but with a whimper. You know, you know, you can't you can't hit the bang without a decrescendo, and this is the decrescendo post-Dario Argento's film. Like you can't end on that.

[0:41] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, we could have. We could have ended on that.

[0:44] Jesse McAnally: We chose not to. We can't. Because I feel after a month of not really covering any musicals, we had to cover a musical. And I wanted to cover the granddaddy of the Phantom musicals. As I would call it, the one that inspired Andrew Lloyd-Webber to make his inspire, ripoff, whatever, whatever words you want to use. Although Andrew Lloyd Webber has openly admitted he was inspired by this, so take that for what it is. This is Ken Hill's's Phantom of the Opera.

[1:54] Andrew DeWolf: The Phantom of the Opera is a musical with book and lyrics by Ken Hill's with music by Gizepi Verte, Charles Junault, Jux Ovidbach, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Carl Maria von Weber, Getano Doziet Donizetti, and Arigio Bioto. Forgive me, all those dead people. Based on Gaston LaRue's Phantom of the Opera. It premiered in 1976 on July 26th at the Duke's Playhouse in Lancaster, where it proved to be a hit. But, you know, things happened, and Ken Hill's would later add the opera music to make it more of an opera and more of a comedy. Then Andrew Lloyd Webber saw it after his then wife and or girlfriend don't quite know where the timeline was at the time. Sarah Brightman was courted to play Christine in it.

Andrew Lloyd-Webber saw it and was like, hey, Ken Hill's, um, would you like to collaborate on something like this? Um, and developing a bigger scale version of this on the West End. Um, and then they they I mean, Ken Hill's and Andrew Lloyd-Webber had worked together on Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat, so they had a history. They really wanted to have Hill involved, but in the end, Lloyd Webber chose to pursue the musical without Hill and developed the Phantom of the Opera. He does have a little credit, like, hey, we we kind of were inspired by you, but basically, what Andrew Lloyd-Webber did overshadowed this original musical by a lot.

[3:22] Jesse McAnally: That's an understatement, I would say. Um, I don't think anyone except for like the Uber fans really know about this one. Um, but the plot of this one is the Phantom of the Opera is about the hideously disfigured phantom's amorous obsession with a magnificent naive singer. Which, yeah, fair. I thought I would have more to say about this one. I'm not gonna lie. I was like, oh yeah, this will be the granddaddy, like this will be a good one to end on. It'll be what Andrew Lloyd-Webber inspired. It'll be a nice little twist of fate at the end of this. Bro. Ain't nothing. Man, we've had some fun conversations about Phantom stuff. Because there's been some wild ones that we've covered. And this is this is the most boring version of Phantom that I think maybe even exists. I'm not I'm not a hundred percent on that, but it's it's down there. It's it's it's a snooze fest. It's it's rough. It was a rough sit.

[4:20] Andrew DeWolf: And the very specific production we watched it was not what would I say? When you see people tell jokes on stage and not even the audience is willing to give a courtesy chuckle it's it's unpleasant. The jokes in particular really feel like um why are they even here? And maybe that's just because I we have been watching Phantom and they're all kind of this dark horror aesthetic even like Weber's version has that kind of it's it's more of a vibes thing than an actual horror but like it feels that way you know um and then this is just like they're gonna tell jokes we've got the we've got the yucks for you and it's like it doesn't work and none of it's funny and I don't know. It's obviously a play in the melodrama of these operas that it's trying to pay homage and pastiche to, but Christ almighty, um, does it fall flat?

[5:23] Jesse McAnally: Maybe if you have really really good performance- No, I can't even say that. Nope. It's just it's just a nothing of a musical. I've always wondered what the Phantom of the Opera would be like if there was like a ratio of 70% managers to 30% Phantom.

[5:40] Andrew DeWolf: Who doesn't want it's so true. And I I feel like part of it is because they're they're being a bit I maybe I'm wrong. I feel like they're being faithful to the uh to the book kind of, but also not. They do it in the most boring way. Like you just you want to see some of the like phantoms escapades a little bit, and all we're getting is just like the managers having a laugh and oh, you think there's really a ghost? How that's silly. And and there's the the one lady who's like convinced that there is one, or I don't know. It's it's and it's like it just doesn't fucking end. It doesn't, it just keeps going, and then the only music they ever have is just m lyric lyrics put to uh an existing opera piece, which I I don't fucking know. And the lyrics aren't bad. I feel like Ken Hill's's real strength here is in the lyrics. Yeah, that's fine. It it it's not bad. It just i it would feel better if it felt more like an actual story narrative opera, honestly.

[5:43] Jesse McAnally: I I feel like if it was more like if it was just singing, maybe if they were just singing if it was sung through or something like that. Because I feel like as soon as a song starts, you're kind of back into it, because these songs are objectively great. Like they're the classic like opera pieces. Yeah, but like maybe make it more of a true opera, like just have it be sung through. I know that's a lot more work. Obviously, that is a lot more work, but maybe you should put work into your show. I I I can't even say that this is terrible. Like, it's just there's nothing to it.

[7:20] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, like like objectively speaking, like the Dario Argento version is worse.

[7:27] Jesse McAnally: Yes.

[7:27] Andrew DeWolf: Like, just worse. Like Phantom of the Mall is is just worse.

[7:31] Jesse McAnally: No, and I kind of have a soft spot for Phantom of the Mall. But like, like those those are like objectively like cheesy, kind of just bad pieces of art, whereas this is just it's just fucking boring and not that funny. And you know what? In like a bad way, it kind of reminds me of um what's that fucking uh West End show we watched that was also like really boring in the LC.

[7:57] Jesse McAnally: Is it fame?

[7:59] Andrew DeWolf: Is it I forgot about that one.

[8:02] Jesse McAnally: Like literally.

[8:03] Andrew DeWolf: Is it we will rock you?

[8:04] Jesse McAnally: No, no, that one's bad.

[8:06] Andrew DeWolf: That one's bad. I was thinking about the one where they they never get to the fireworks factory, they never they never get the the banjo or whatever.

[8:11] Jesse McAnally: You mean Andrew Lloyd-Webber's By Jeeves?

[8:15] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, it kind of reminds me of By Jeeves. A little bit.

[8:18] Jesse McAnally: I do I I come actually that is the most apt comparison I've ever heard. Oh my god, you uh you have nailed it right on the head, my friend.

[8:28] Andrew DeWolf: At this point, we appear to have run out of narrative.

[8:32] Jesse McAnally: Jeeves!

[8:33] Andrew DeWolf: Ah, I think the story's in need of a what do you call those things? Deus ex machina.

[8:39] Jesse McAnally: Sounds like the chap. It's a little better than By Jeeves, but not it has the same like tone.

[8:40] Andrew DeWolf: It has the same sort of problems. Like, it's it's right there. By Jeeves had more jokes that landed, and it felt like the narrative suited it better.

[8:56] Jesse McAnally: But it didn't have the good opera songs.

[8:58] Andrew DeWolf: No, no. So they both have their own strengths. Although it says something that that By Jeeves' strengths are strengths of the the show and and what was written. Whereas the strengths the Phantom of the Opera has here is the opera songs that they just stole from other people.

[9:15] Jesse McAnally: Stole loosely. They're repurposing them. I mean, I don't even think the opera songs are badly fit, sincerely. I think they fit well.

[9:24] Andrew DeWolf: No, it's the thing that doesn't fit is the comedy hijinks of Raul talking to the the conductor and asking him to please stop playing the music and oh I have to go through the chorus girls' room to get into Christine's room. Um it's just it's the jokes don't land. And the guy who plays Phantom, God bless his soul, he's trying. But there's nothing the Phantom is not a character in this.

[9:50] Jesse McAnally: No, he's basically just an antagonistic force that exists, and then by the end, he's sort of a character, but even then, like not really. My favorite part is when they take his mask off and they reveal a different mask underneath it. And it's very clear that it's just a different mask.

[10:08] Andrew DeWolf: The makeup is It's just a mask.

[10:10] Jesse McAnally: It's like a little It's not even makeup. He literally takes it off. It's not makeup. Like when he uh when the show ends, he he actually has it like off his is like it's just it's just a mask.

[10:23] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, he just has a little little black nose at the top of the mask, and that's it.

[10:27] Jesse McAnally: He looks like Batman.

[10:28] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, he does have the um the weird, like uh Sweeney Todd hair.

[10:33] Jesse McAnally: I like the weird Sweeney Todd hair, though. I like that Christine's a blonde in this production that we saw. Christine is a blonde in the book, and she's so rarely a blonde in any adaptation, so I I appreciate that.

[10:45] Andrew DeWolf: God, are we already out of things to say? We're like 10 minutes in.

[10:48] Jesse McAnally: Yes, what is there to do it in? What is the plot of this? Who is our lead character?

[10:51] Andrew DeWolf: It's Phantom of the Opera.

[10:53] Jesse McAnally: It's just Phantom of the Opera. Who is our character? Who is our lead?

[10:57] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, I mean, our lead is kind of the managers in this movie.

[11:00] Jesse McAnally: He is, right?

[11:01] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. That is the fascinating thing about at least that's an idea.

[11:01] Jesse McAnally: That's an idea.

[11:06] Andrew DeWolf: It's the worst possible choice.

[11:09] Jesse McAnally: It is literally the worst possible choice you could make. Is like, let's have our lead be the fucking side goofy characters that do nothing.

[11:20] Andrew DeWolf: Like, like, what do the managers do during during Phantom of the Opera, like, traditionally? They just kind of put the obstacles against the Phantom, like, you know, like, hey, we're we're going against your wishes. You know, they're being like an a slightly pushing against the phantom.

[11:36] Jesse McAnally: That's about it, though. And really, even that, like, the Phantom does most of the stuff that he's gonna do. Um, just because he wants to do it, you know? And like I don't know. There are things in this that are not in many other adaptations, including the Persian character, but somehow they still fuck that up by making him the Phantom's brother.

[11:59] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, that's the weirdest shit. They uh it's like they needed the Phantom to have like something, so they're like, he killed his mom and dad because he was deformed, and no one who can see the deformity can live or something, which is just I just I don't fucking know. And then of course, he tried to kill his brother, but he failed, and his brother is now trying to like get revenge. But the best part is the Beetlejuice style forced marriage at the end.

[12:27] Jesse McAnally: Oh, yeah, yeah. That's not from the book, right?

[12:29] Andrew DeWolf: Nope, that just happens. There is the boiler room, which is in the book, the escape room, basically, that he puts them in.

[12:35] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, there's not much Raul against the book. He is like the son of the manager that takes over.

[12:43] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, so that's yeah, but that's like barely even a thing. Like that doesn't even matter, really. It's so weird. Like the Phantom does the Phantom even get redeemed. He just kind of stabs himself and is like, oops.

[12:54] Jesse McAnally: Goodbye. He sort of redeems himself by doing that.

[12:59] Andrew DeWolf: That's like his They went full Jacqueline Hyde with the ending then.

[13:03] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, his saving grace is that he doesn't he doesn't kill Christine and himself. He only kills himself. And that's that makes him a good person. It's like, okay. That that feels like the bare minimum, man.

[13:15] Andrew DeWolf: And then she looks up to the the mezzanine and says, He was always my angel of music.

[14:11] Jesse McAnally: There are some jokes that I like in theory that I think in execution are terrible. Like when the managers are like, look at that chandelier. Man, if that fell, it would it would hit all the people there. At least those in the cheap seats would be fine. And then when the chandelier crashes, it's the one that's on the stage for the opera. That that's at least a joke.

[14:32] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. Well, uh, they do it a couple times. The joke is like, oh, in Phantom, the chandelier falls, and look where the audience is sitting. Look above you guys. When it falls, you're gonna be crushed.

[14:44] Andrew DeWolf: Uh, and that's the joke, and they play it up a couple times, but it's like it's so tongue-in-cheek. Like, it kinda works. Maybe if I was in the audience, like physically there, and I could look up and see the chandelier, that would be funny. Um, but that was that yeah. I also can't imagine that that would play very well in a setting where there is no chandelier above them. I yeah, I feel like very little of this works for me. The Phantom is neither scary nor funny. They try to make him scary, but that mask is not doing any favors. He just, it literally just looks like he's wearing a Halloween mask, but it only goes around his eyes. It's, it's like, um, sincerely, this is, I wouldn't say this is one of the worst things we've covered.

It's just there's so nothing to it. Um, we've covered stuff like this before. It's, it's, these are always so fucking hard to talk about because it's like, what do we say beyond just a lot of there was a lot of boring choices, nothing was that bad, nothing was that good. So we're just kind of, imagine you and I, imagine you and I are Andrew Lloyd-Webber and Cameron Mackintosh going into this, um, to watch it. Do you leave inspired? Like, I can do this better? I mean, maybe inspired in that sense. Like, maybe, maybe Weber was genuinely like, dang, I think my wife was so good in that Christine role, but this play fucking sucks. Maybe we got a thing going on here. You know, then there is at least one good thing to come out of this, though.

I mean, we did get a very successful musical that has some good tunes in it. Yeah, yep, yep. Andrew Lloyd-Webber and Ken Hill's got the credit. Like, I think this would have gone into obscurity had it not been for Andrew Lloyd-Webber kind of giving it a platform by saying this was my inspiration. Good for him. Yeah, literally, this, no one would have ever talked about this ever. There's no fucking way. This would not be being performed. This, like, to say, does this probably doesn't even get performed, does it? It does. Like, it still does. Like, even the production we saw was like a 2014 production. Oh my god. Why would you, like, okay? I get that if you're playing Phantom, maybe you can't get the rights to the Weber one and you want to still do it.

Why not do the, uh, the American one? You, you, is it hard to get the rights to that one? Yeah, it's not hard. People do it. I don't know, like, why this? Maybe it's just because no one else does it. Maybe you have trained opera singers that want to sing proper opera but also tell a new narrative. That could be an interesting one. Okay. I find it hard to believe there's not a Phantom of the Opera opera, though. Like, that must be a thing. It must be. Um, I can't think of one, but there has to. Right? There has to be one. If it is not, like, geez, somebody get on that. That's a huge missed opportunity. Yeah, as far as most of the internet is concerned, there's three, four Phantom musicals. This one, the Andrew Lloyd-Webber, the American one, and Love Never Dies.

And then I guess you could maybe count like Phantom of the Paradise if you want to be a stickler. If you want to be like, well, it's a musical and it's based on it a little bit. How did you feel the songs are integrated into the narrative? I actually think the songs were fine. Honestly. Genuinely. I like they don't come out of nowhere. No. And they're sung well, and I mean, opera makes sense. It makes sense to do opera songs in Phantom of the Opera. I mean, the whole thing takes place in a fucking opera house. Like, it makes sense. So I think it works fine. And I like that they wrote like little lyrics to, uh, to these and didn't just like do, uh, just the normal opera lyrics, like it's new.

I think like, I honestly think Ken Hill's's strength as a lyricist is the biggest thing here. Like, it really is impressive. And I think he's very good at funny lyrics. He's just not very good at funny book writing. Well, I mean, we're gonna have a section to talk about the songs, and I feel like that's one of the only things we have to talk about. Yeah, but what, let's look at this review though. Do we want to look at these some of the reviews for this? Because I think that would be at least a little interesting. Okay. It's time for previews. So this review is from, I believe, the Los Angeles Times from December 1st, 1989. Written by Dan Sullivan. The title was Ken Hill's's Version of Phantom. No holy terror.

Um, so we're used to New York Times. Let's check out the other coast. So let's say, let's see what they think of theater. There are more ways than one to screw up the Phantom of the Opera. One way is to turn Phantom into Jack the Ripper. That's the approach of the latest film version, whose appeal would seem limited to surgery fans, referring to the Robert England film. Yeah, I, yeah, critics love horror. We know this. Yes, yes, they are very kind to horror films. Um, elevated horror is a stupid phrase. Um, another way to spoof the story, that's the approach of Ken Hill's's Phantom at the, oh, another way is to spoof the story. That's the approach of Ken Hill's's Phantom at the Wiltern Theater. Not to be confused with Andrew Lloyd-Webber's Phantom at the Amundsen, which is said to have been inspired by Hill's version.

Not that anyone would confuse the two shows. Phantom at the Amundsen is a trashy score, but it also has the grand scale of opera. Phantom at the Wiltern. Who wrote this fucking shit? That's them referring to, uh, Lloyd Webber's. I know, but like we're gonna call Lloyd Webber's a trashy score. Okay, get what he means. It's like, you know, pop. I guess. But that is, oh man, that is such a snobby way to refer to a pop score. It really is. Um, Phantom at the Wiltern, the glorious monument to zigzag art deco is dinky. You have heard of bus and truck shows. This one looks like it folds into a Volkswagen van with the cast sitting up front. Like fucking Scooby-Doo. This needs to be, actually, wait, this kinda is like Scooby-Doo.

Ranky, there's a roast. This needn't have been fatal. Audiences have a way of adjusting to reduced position production circumstances. We wouldn't have held the show's poverty row look against it if the events transpiring within its shaky frame had been funnier or creepier. In fact, a couple of stage pictures work better than the Amundsen version. It's clear, for instance, that we're on the roof of the Paris Opera when the story heads there. And I rather like the Phantom using an old rowboat when he spirits Christine across the dry ice lake. A touch of verisimilitude in an otherwise bald and unconvincing narrative. Hill's idea is to tell the story like a Gilbert and Sullivan operetta, putting his words to prim tunes by Donizetti, Meyerbeer, Gounod, etc. This is fine when he's joshing the denizens of the opera world, the demon soprano, the Swiss tenor, the monster ballet mistress, and the money-grubbing manager, exemplified respectively by the actors.

Um, but the method is counterproductive when Hill is trying to invoke terror and make-believe terror. It's perfectly possible to start out joshing a horror tale, and little by little seducing the audience to believe it. Broadway's Dracula managed the trick. Did it though? Um, what Weber's Phantom manages, at least for some viewers. Hill's Phantom can't. The libretto is too talky and the music too decorous. Always we're outside the story, having a mild chuckle at it. Yeah. I actually completely agree with that. I think that this critic is a little bit snobby in places, but I mean this is accurate. It's just the way that they talk. It's always that. Yeah, but this is completely accurate. Like, um, you never get into the terror of like we see a murder take place, right?

The devil guy gets, uh, killed and his body falls onto the stage or whatever. Um, and what do they do with that? They take the chance to say, oh, there's a note written on his body, and then somebody reads his underpants and it says a hundred percent silk or something like that. And then, whoop, that's the wrong note. It's like, this is the he just killed somebody. This is a dead body. Like, why are we telling like a dumb little joke about underwear? Like what's the thing? Imagine how much better if they just like, he's the phantom of the opera. Yeah, like you have to have some sort of threat, right? Like, there has to be something in a story like this because this is at its core, it's a story about a killer.

Hill also makes a mistake by incorporating some of the most tedious parts of the original story. Complications that Lloyd Weber version rightfully realized only gummed up the action. The chase to the Phantom's lair in the second act is as interminable here as it is in the Lon Chaney's silent film. More so in the production's lack of scenic resources. One can only accomplish so much with smoke bombs. Moreover, it's cool to make Baxter sing roulades through them. The evening's good points include the fact that Baxter and most of the company can, in fact, sing. Which I think it is the same for our production that we saw. Like, they can all sing. Yes. Um, in general, though, this is an overextended skit that has a great deal of trouble convincing an audience and itself that it is a big ticket musical.

Top price is $35. Man, weren't those the days. At the old Mayfair Musical Hall, at half its playing length, it would have been heaven. Why can't shows be the size that they were meant to be? For the record, the evening is sponsored by Los Angeles Times Fund. There, I think I finally found something I wholeheartedly agree with there. Shows should be the length that they are, and ticket prices should be under $35. Can you fucking imagine if ticket prices for like Broadway shows were under $35? Um, $1.1989 is equivalent to purchasing about $245 today. So that'd be $39 times 2.45. That's about $95. Yeah, that's top price. They didn't say this is the average price. That was the highest price ticket.

Yes. I could live with that. Do you agree with that review? I think other than him just being a little bit snobby about the Weber version and the, um, Robert England version. I agree with everything else. Yeah, um, and that's like with the difference of like nearly 30 years between them. It is interesting reading this review though. One just one thing, I guess. It's interesting that the Weber one and this one were both playing at the same time, and that's weird to think about. There was just two Phantom of the Operas, and you had to know which one to go seek. Imagine being your grandmother. I got us tickets to Phantom down in downtown LA. Oh my goodness, that must have cost you a penny of penny.

Yes, the highest ticket price was $35. Oh my goodness. Oh, okay. This will be our birthday and our Christmas. Alright, alright. Then you get there and it's like, whoa, this is silk. I don't understand all the fuss. Everyone out in New York is coming in their pants over this. I know. It's crazy. This was really fucking boring. I, you wanna leave during intermission? I think that's a good idea. I don't even care if I get my money back. I'm trying to remember what they did for like right before intermission. Isn't it just like, does anything even happen? He just like carries somebody off stage, doesn't he? No, the Phantom does, uh, uh, something. Like there is something or other. I feel like the Phantom, he like hears them in the cemetery and sings a little diddy?

Not the set on the roof, maybe? I don't know. It's, I don't know. It was super. We've been watching so many Phantom movies. Like it's right now. It's so unimpactful that I'm just, I just remember how we knew almost every bit of the Dario Argento version because that one stuck with us for better or for worse. This is so bland that it just blends in to everything else. It's like I'm gonna forget that this is even a real version of Phantom. I'm gonna like remember a scene from it, and I'll be like, oh, that was from like the Weber one, right? And you'll, you'll have to remind me that this existed. Yeah, or you'll be like, was that Love Never Dies or the American one? The one where he reads his underwear.

Which one does that happen in? Was that in my Jeeves? And you're gonna be like, no, no, there's this guy, Ken Hill's, who wrote, uh, his own Phantom. Man, I, I, this is one of those things that you have to convince people exist, you know? Like, like it's a fun fact you pull out of parties, like, hey, did you know that there's another worse version of Phantom of the Opera? Did you ever want the Weber version, but worse in every way? That's Love Never Dies. Well, yeah, that's true. Well, like, literally, though, this is basically the same story as most of the other ones, just with no interesting choices. The new choices that they do make are just completely boring and freaking. They're the easy answers. Like, who cares? Who cares if the Persian is his brother? I like, who cares? Does anyone care? Oh my god, we got Dotson! See, no one cares.

[28:03] Andrew DeWolf: Hey guys, sorry to interrupt you in the middle of the show, but we gotta show it to you. Today's show is brought to you by the extremely kind donations by our donors over at Patreon. Tell us a little bit about Patreon, Andrew.

[28:12] Andrew DeWolf: And Patreon's where you can go if you want to give us a little bit of money and also get some extra content. We have commentary tracks, we have extra podcast episodes. We usually do meetups. Um, by the time this is coming out, we should just be wrapping up with his stuff, so we should have, uh, yeah, end of June, I'd say we should have another meetup.

[28:30] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, we should have some stuff coming up pretty soon. Um, also we do have a high-tier Patreon, uh, the Monica Thoreau, who gets to have one paragraph that we are allowed to read every week. Um, they kept theirs short, it wasn't like, uh, and they will eventually join us on the show to talk about, uh, show they want to talk about.

[28:51] Andrew DeWolf: And Monica Thoreau's message is just a reminder to all people to get their yearly eye exam and to not sleep in their contacts.

[28:59] Andrew DeWolf: Um, yeah, I am excited because they're an optometrist. I have a lot of eyeball questions for them when they come on. We're gonna have to do a show about eyeballs.

[29:07] Andrew DeWolf: Is there an eyeball show?

[29:08] Andrew DeWolf: Um, ooh, is there? Hold on. I imagine the musical that 80s movie with the big eyeball.

[29:15] Andrew DeWolf: I forget what that's called. There was an episode of Pee-Wee's Playhouse with a giant eyeball creature, and I'm, oh god, eyeball creature.

[29:24] Andrew DeWolf: You know, while you're looking that up, why don't I read our cards?

[29:27] Jesse McAnally: No, no, you need to see this. This is important.

[29:29] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, yeah, this horrific thing. Um, his name was Roger. Roger the giant eyeball.

[29:34] Jesse McAnally: Yes, I am sending it to you now. Um, if you are not on Patreon, you will not get to see Roger the Giant Eyeball creature, recurring character from Pee-Wee's Playhouse.

[29:42] Andrew DeWolf: Yo, that's Mike Wazowski.

[29:44] Jesse McAnally: It's a horrifying thing. I hate the fact that it exists. It gave me nightmares as a child.

[29:49] Andrew DeWolf: Yo, whoever made Mike Wazowski was definitely inspired by Roger, the Giant Eyeball.

[29:57] Jesse McAnally: He has one foot, one eye, mouth out the side of his eyeball. Beautiful.

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[31:16] Jesse McAnally: If you'd like to join them and get your name read incorrectly by Andrew every week, come join us over here.

[31:23] Andrew DeWolf: Um god, I'm just wanna stall because I don't want to talk about this show anymore.

[31:30] Jesse McAnally: We could talk about the music at least.

[31:32] Andrew DeWolf: I guess.

[31:33] Jesse McAnally: I guess if we're gonna like scrape the bottom of the barrel like that.

[31:37] Andrew DeWolf: Um, let's get back to it.

[31:46] Jesse McAnally: So we start, of course, as every Phantom of the Opera musical starts with the managers.

[31:58] Andrew DeWolf: Well come, sir, I'm so delighted. Everyone is so excited. What we need is someone new, just like you to pull the sinking ship back into shape, and then we might forget the very dreadful way the Dragon Law fulls the water.

[32:15] Jesse McAnally: That's quite enough of that. You're not supposed to rat out, no doubt.

[32:22] Andrew DeWolf: Ignore him, dear sir.

[32:25] Jesse McAnally: Of course. You have to start with the main characters.

[32:27] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, yes. The managers are and always have been the most important phantom characters.

[32:32] Jesse McAnally: Truly. Truly, truly, truly. I hate every moment that I spend with them.

[32:37] Andrew DeWolf: And I love the manager stuff from the Weber musical. It's probably like my favorite part of the Weber musical, Lloyd Weber musical.

[32:43] Jesse McAnally: But in the Weber musical, they're like a side thing.

[32:45] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, and they're a breath of fresh air, and "Prima Donna" is probably like one of my favorite pieces of intricate musicality that Andrew Lloyd-Webber's done outside of like "Jesus Christ Superstar."

[32:55] Jesse McAnally: Here though, they're kind of forced into this main role where they don't really work.

[33:01] Andrew DeWolf: No. And they have no drive. They are just joke machines.

[33:06] Jesse McAnally: And none of the jokes are funny, so it makes it's like having Deadpool, but he's not funny.

[33:10] Andrew DeWolf: So the music is all opera.

[33:14] Jesse McAnally: Um, I feel like some of it I recognized, some of it I didn't. Um, so some of it was like more famous, some of it was not quite as much.

[33:23] Andrew DeWolf: Although if you're an opera fan, like a more avid opera fan, you probably would recognize everything.

[33:29] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, like um, these are not like deep cut opera polls.

[33:32] Andrew DeWolf: It's like "Bazzette" no dead.

[33:34] Jesse McAnally: No, these are not deep cuts.

[33:35] Andrew DeWolf: I didn't recognize some of them, but I'm not like an avid opera listener.

[33:40] Jesse McAnally: No, these are like the this is like baby's first opera choices.

[33:44] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. Uh, in some of them, like I think everyone would recognize.

[33:48] Jesse McAnally: Like, but this is one of the rare versions of the "Phantom of the Opera" where he plays "Toccata and Fugue."

[33:54] Andrew DeWolf: Bad-oo, but they played that in the at least in some of the 1925 version.

[34:03] Jesse McAnally: Oh, the movie.

[34:04] Andrew DeWolf: They play that.

[34:05] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, but that wasn't a choice by the movie. That was just the choice by the editor of the movie.

[34:09] Andrew DeWolf: Uh, like a hundred years later.

[34:11] Jesse McAnally: It's in the movie though.

[34:12] Andrew DeWolf: Depends on the version.

[34:14] Jesse McAnally: I don't count that.

[34:15] Andrew DeWolf: People think it's from Dracula.

[34:17] Jesse McAnally: No, why?

[34:17] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know what it's from.

[34:19] Jesse McAnally: I think it was just a piece of music.

[34:20] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, don't people associate that with Dracula though?

[34:23] Jesse McAnally: I guess.

[34:23] Andrew DeWolf: I guess.

[34:24] Jesse McAnally: Do is it in the Dracula movie?

[34:26] Andrew DeWolf: I don't think it is.

[34:27] Jesse McAnally: I've never seen I don't watch these like old ass movies.

[34:30] Andrew DeWolf: You don't watch movies.

[34:31] Jesse McAnally: I think Andrew, if we're gonna learn two things about you from doing the show, it's that you don't watch movies and that you don't remember any actors' names.

[34:40] Andrew DeWolf: I feel like the first one is less accurate than the second one, but sure.

[34:46] Jesse McAnally: You've never watched a movie, you just watch musicals and Breaking Bad.

[34:50] Andrew DeWolf: Is there any particular song you want to talk about? Any any funny lyrics?

[34:54] Jesse McAnally: No! I'm looking at this and I'm like literally have nothing.

[34:58] Andrew DeWolf: Nothing.

[34:58] Jesse McAnally: There must have been some funny lyrics you noticed.

[35:00] Andrew DeWolf: You always do that.

[35:01] Jesse McAnally: I literally, it washed over me this entire experience.

[35:05] Andrew DeWolf: I remember the last song that the Phantom sings in Act One.

[35:09] Jesse McAnally: I'm like, oh okay, you're doing that again.

[35:13] Andrew DeWolf: To pay my heart selfishly does me.

[35:25] Jesse McAnally: So this crew will love me.

[35:43] Andrew DeWolf: I guess one good thing you can say is even though they I think I believe they wrote all their own lyrics for this stuff.

[35:50] Jesse McAnally: Ken Hill's wrote all of them. Um, none of it like was memorable in a bad way.

[35:55] Andrew DeWolf: No.

[35:56] Jesse McAnally: So that's good. I mean, there's nothing that was like I was like respect it less because it's not bad.

[36:02] Andrew DeWolf: Like, say what you will about "Love Never Dies." I respect it for going so batshit.

[36:07] Jesse McAnally: Oh, we're doing freaks, like Cody, I okay.

[36:11] Andrew DeWolf: And I think you you almost mocked me for saying this, but like I I do have a more respect for like Dario Argento's "Phantom of the Opera" because of the horrible choices it made.

[36:23] Jesse McAnally: Because at least at least it had the balls to make those horrible choices.

[36:27] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, to say we're not doing this.

[36:29] Jesse McAnally: Um, I kind of like the the Phantom History Story, the "In the Shadows Dim and Dreary."

[36:36] Andrew DeWolf: Until the day that he possesses her.

[36:40] Jesse McAnally: Now he possesses her, "Phantom of the Opera" S.

[37:05] Andrew DeWolf: I get that's kind of like the Angel of Music moment with uh uh Madame Giri from the Lloyd Weber one.

[37:11] Jesse McAnally: That one that one's pretty neat.

[37:13] Andrew DeWolf: That the Persian is the one who explains his backstory in this one though.

[37:17] Jesse McAnally: Yes, yes, yes.

[37:19] Andrew DeWolf: You know how I knew I was not going to love this?

[37:23] Jesse McAnally: When the first line, the first line out of any character's mouth.

[37:27] Andrew DeWolf: Do you remember what it was?

[37:29] Jesse McAnally: No, I don't, but what was it?

[37:31] Andrew DeWolf: It was literally a ballet dancer on stage. He said, "Shit!"

[37:35] Jesse McAnally: Oh fuck, you're right.

[37:38] Andrew DeWolf: They open it with that fucking ballet dancer for no fucking reason.

[37:41] Jesse McAnally: I remember that now.

[37:42] Andrew DeWolf: And it's not Christine.

[37:43] Jesse McAnally: Christine doesn't show up till 45 minutes in.

[37:46] Andrew DeWolf: No, Christine has like no role in this because she's of course she's not the main character.

[37:50] Jesse McAnally: The managers are the main characters of "Phantom of the Opera."

[37:53] Andrew DeWolf: Everyone knows this.

[37:54] Jesse McAnally: The most prop I've ever seen her in, and she's been a prop in many a story is of "Phantom of the Opera."

[38:00] Andrew DeWolf: You know what we didn't talk about when we talked about the Robert England one is is that Christine in that one is kind of badass.

[38:05] Jesse McAnally: Explain, because I agree with you, but I'm curious as your justification.

[38:09] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, she actively, she actively pushes the phant away, tries to kill him, and then in the future version, successfully does uh kill him.

[38:20] Jesse McAnally: Like, yeah, you're right.

[38:21] Andrew DeWolf: So this is that was the most agency Christine has ever had in a "Phantom of the Opera" narrative.

[38:26] Jesse McAnally: Like, cause usually Christine, like like the fucking one we just talked about, Dario Argento, like she's like desperately in love with this rat man.

[38:38] Andrew DeWolf: Like, and then even like the the Weber one, like she she can't turn away from him, and then like "Love Never Dies" only makes that worse.

[38:45] Jesse McAnally: I mean, in the original, she had agency. She was like, "Oh, I might be into you," and then he goes murder man.

[38:50] Andrew DeWolf: She's like, "I'm definitely not into you. Goodbye."

[38:53] Jesse McAnally: True. But it's not, it's not enough.

[38:54] Andrew DeWolf: And then "Love Never Dies" ruins it.

[38:56] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[38:59] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know. Like Christine gets gets kind of like.

[39:02] Jesse McAnally: She should she should be the one that kills him.

[39:05] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I mean, is there any other version where Christine kills the Phantom?

[39:08] Jesse McAnally: I mean, there's only one where she dies, and that's "Love Never Dies."

[39:12] Andrew DeWolf: Like, yeah, so the Robert England one, she kills the Phantom.

[39:15] Jesse McAnally: She doesn't do it in like any of the like musical versions that I'm aware of.

[39:20] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, in the book, ki if you you this is a big stretch. Let me be clear here.

[39:25] Jesse McAnally: She gives him a kiss, he feels redeemed, and then dies because it broke his heart.

[39:31] Andrew DeWolf: Did she cause that death?

[39:33] Jesse McAnally: No.

[39:33] Andrew DeWolf: And even if she did, that's not her trying to kill him.

[39:37] Jesse McAnally: Like, she didn't know that was gonna happen.

[39:39] Andrew DeWolf: And the Herbert Lom one, I'm pretty sure.

[39:44] Jesse McAnally: Um, we did not talk about that, but she's on stage performing, someone's cutting a chandelier, the phantom removes his mask and j pushes her out of the way, and then the chandelier crashes on him, killing him.

[39:56] Andrew DeWolf: Is that count?

[39:58] Jesse McAnally: No, that's the phantom doing like a noble sacrifice.

[40:00] Andrew DeWolf: If anything, that's like the opposite.

[40:04] Jesse McAnally: That's honestly one of the more likable phantoms, and it is the only one aside from Dario Argento where he fucking slaps her.

[40:11] Andrew DeWolf: In this one, uh, the Phantom threatens, like to the Ken Hill's one.

[40:16] Jesse McAnally: Uh, the Phantom threatens to kill Christine and himself.

[40:20] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[40:20] Jesse McAnally: After doing like a forcible wedding, which is just like weird.

[40:24] Andrew DeWolf: Beetlejuice style forced wedding.

[40:26] Jesse McAnally: Yep.

[40:27] Andrew DeWolf: And then we're we're supposed to be like the Phantom redeems himself because he chooses to stab himself.

[40:33] Jesse McAnally: Not kill Christine.

[40:35] Andrew DeWolf: He he's like, I will not kill Christine if I don't I don't even remember.

[40:40] Jesse McAnally: Doesn't he make some barbers?

[40:43] Andrew DeWolf: And then I'll kill us both today.

[40:47] Jesse McAnally: Uh, it and I I forget, but doesn't Christine like even say something about how like he was a good man at uh no she's like he was always my angel of music.

[40:56] Andrew DeWolf: He will not go without a friend.

[41:01] Jesse McAnally: And he was once my angel of music.

[41:36] Andrew DeWolf: He was just gonna kill you like ten minutes ago.

[41:45] Andrew DeWolf: What a movie.

[41:45] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, yeah.

[41:47] Jesse McAnally: What a show. Props to the Robert England one, legitimately.

[41:50] Andrew DeWolf: One of the better adaptations.

[41:53] Jesse McAnally: Christine gets gets her revenge.

[41:55] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, legitimately.

[41:56] Jesse McAnally: Like she saves the day.

[41:59] Andrew DeWolf: None of them.

[42:00] Jesse McAnally: Like I'm looking at the list, none of them does Christine do anything.

[42:05] Andrew DeWolf: Maybe the 1991, not but maybe the the the American musical adaptation, but it was more his dad.

[42:12] Jesse McAnally: I I don't think I don't think that counts.

[42:16] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I wish I wish I had a better answer.

[42:19] Jesse McAnally: I really wish I did.

[42:21] Andrew DeWolf: Um my god.

[42:23] Jesse McAnally: What what a fucking mess.

[42:25] Andrew DeWolf: What a fucking mess.

[42:28] Jesse McAnally: Do you want to do like a Phantom Month recap?

[42:30] Andrew DeWolf: I guess.

[42:31] Jesse McAnally: Phantom Month recap is the only thing we have left to do.

[42:34] Andrew DeWolf: Actually, no, we should compare this to the book.

[42:36] Jesse McAnally: We've done that for everything else.

[42:38] Andrew DeWolf: The book this does have a lot of book elements, like the Persian makes an appearance, but he is it's like they include pieces, but then they still do it differently in a different way.

[42:47] Jesse McAnally: I feel like this one feels the most accurate.

[42:51] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, like they the phantom is nowhere near as much of a presence or a character the way that he is in the book.

[42:57] Jesse McAnally: It's also it is more of a mystery, like because we're following the managers and not Christine and not the phantom.

[43:04] Andrew DeWolf: We kind of actually have there is some chance that maybe you could think that there was a phantom.

[43:11] Jesse McAnally: Like an actual ghost.

[43:12] Andrew DeWolf: Well, this is what you've been asking people to make.

[43:14] Jesse McAnally: This is what you said you wanted people to make, and they made it.

[43:17] Andrew DeWolf: What's your thoughts?

[43:18] Jesse McAnally: Personally, I wouldn't have made it this way.

[43:21] Andrew DeWolf: You wouldn't have made it a broad, stupid comedy.

[43:24] Jesse McAnally: I still think that the the plot elements and the way that like having him be a sort of mystery character could work and be fine.

[43:32] Andrew DeWolf: But this doesn't this is completely wrong and just not how you would should do it.

[43:38] Jesse McAnally: I completely agree.

[43:40] Andrew DeWolf: I I uh it's just uh nothing.

[43:43] Jesse McAnally: Raoul is closer to a main character than either the Christine or the Phantom, which is also very much like the book.

[43:49] Andrew DeWolf: He also has the weird, like, she's cheating on me part that doesn't last very long.

[43:54] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[43:55] Andrew DeWolf: He gets angry, sings a song about it, the audience laughs, I guess.

[43:59] Jesse McAnally: It's so much.

[44:00] Andrew DeWolf: They laugh with the enthusiasm of someone held at gunpoint.

[44:04] Jesse McAnally: It's honestly, it's it's very funny because I bet you an audience member that's watching this at in the time around where it like when it came out and like the Weber one had just come out.

[44:14] Jesse McAnally: This uh this almost plays like it's supposed to be a spoof of the Weber version.

[44:20] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[44:20] Jesse McAnally: But it's it's literally not. It's like the opposite. So much worse. Everything is so much worse. Um and I'm not a fan of the opera defender. Like I you know I don't love the Andrew Lloyd-Webber musical that much.

[44:33] Andrew DeWolf: I don't really love it either, but there's there is just there's a lot more good elements. Like you have to admit that there's way more good elements in that than there is in something like this.

[44:41] Jesse McAnally: Oh, definitely. But I I still think the American musical is the best interpretation of the story because it just throws it all out and does their own thing.

[44:48] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[44:49] Jesse McAnally: So why don't we do a a phantom month recap.

[44:53] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, and just kind of what did we cover? Like, what where did we end up? What did we learn? Previously, we've covered the Phantom of the Opera, Lloyd Webber, and Love Never Dies.

[45:02] Jesse McAnally: We did them back to back early on, because I knew I didn't want to like hold them out. I was like, yeah, if we're doing them, we're doing them. Uh and I still stand by that call. We made the right choice. Um, then we did Phantom, the American musical, much later. Um, one of the better things we've covered. Then this month, we started with the Phantom of the Paradise. Then we moved on to the Phantom in the Mall, Eric's Revenge. Then last week we did um Robert England's Phantom of the Opera and Lon Chaney's Phantom of the Opera. Then Dario Argento's, and we're ending with Ken Hill's's, because I thought, hey, that'd be a good ending, and no, it was not. It ended with a fizzle.

[45:41] Andrew DeWolf: So, I mean, Phantom Month, I think was overall a big success, but it feels like we're ending it. We're ending it in the worst possible way. Where we picked the most boring Phantom adaptation of all time to cover the very end.

[45:58] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, I mean, it does give us time to reflect on what's happened before us and appreciate where we've come as opposed to where we've been. Which one do you think was the most wacky?

[46:09] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, obviously, it's between Phantom of the Mall and Phantom Dario Argento. As far as pure wackiness, like, there is a couple contenders, I would say. I think Phantom of the Paradise has a lot of wackiness in there. Um, a lot of a lot of goofy, a lot of goofy fun elements. Phantom of the Mall, of course, is I mean, just off the walls bonkers. I didn't think that we would top that, but we we actually far surpassed it at this point.

[46:36] Jesse McAnally: Yes. Um, yeah two very good guests for both um Phantom the Mall and Lon Chaney's with uh Christy Estherly and Amanda Hunt. Both of them are were lovely, lovely guests and had a lot to bring.

[46:46] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, so the Dario Argento Phantom definitely is the most off-the-wall bonkers. Like, yeah. It's there's just too much going on, and it almost it almost feels like we we still haven't done it justice, even after talking about it for.

[47:01] Jesse McAnally: I want a director's cut of that uh movie. I want the three-hour version. I want to see if it makes more or less sense.

[47:07] Andrew DeWolf: It probably less, honestly. I don't think they're gonna clear anything up. They're probably just gonna add more weird elements that don't make sense. The Phantom's brother was actually a rhinoceros.

[47:19] Jesse McAnally: Of of the ones we covered this month, did you uh were you the most surprised by? Most most enjoyed upon revisit.

[47:27] Andrew DeWolf: Sincerely, it was Dario Argento's. That was a lot of fun to revisit with those weird historians. Um, but I think I actively enjoyed the Robert England one a lot. Um that was a good actually entertaining watch. And I didn't hate Phantom of the Mall as much as I thought I would.

[47:43] Jesse McAnally: Phantom of the Mall?

[47:45] Andrew DeWolf: Honestly, not even that bad. You were very negative in the episode, but I was very negative, but now that we've covered more, I'm like, one of the better adaptations.

[47:55] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, it's like, wait a second, like, what are we comparing this to, you know? Now, not to top chin to our other show on this network, but how would you adapt Phantom of the Opera? Let's just say Blum House or A24 comes to you as like five million dollars, make a Phantom of the Opera adaptation. Don't care how you do it, as long as it is an adaptation, and you know how loose you can be with that nowadays.

[48:20] Andrew DeWolf: I would want to ditch the the time period, and I'd want to ditch the um the setting like entirely.

[48:28] Jesse McAnally: No France, no America, or No France, no modern or 20th century?

[48:33] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I just I I feel like it's been overdone and just I I'm I feel like we've done it so much at this point that we have to do something different. So I would want to go probably like the Phantom of the Mall route where we just kind of pick a new location and just go.

[48:51] Jesse McAnally: I think I think you should still keep it in an opera, in my opinion.

[48:54] Andrew DeWolf: You think it should be like a modern day opera?

[48:56] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, you know, like one of the ones that are kind of run down that people don't go to. Like I feel like there's a lot of potential of for that, and playing the aspect of operas really aren't the scene anymore.

[49:06] Andrew DeWolf: I like the Phantom of the uh Paradise concept. Um where it's instead of an opera house, we have like a rock venue or something.

[49:14] Jesse McAnally: I like that one too. Um Have you seen uh have you seen Green Room?

[49:18] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[49:18] Jesse McAnally: What about like something like that?

[49:20] Andrew DeWolf: That would be very unpleasant.

[49:22] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, like um, but it you know, instead of a green room, spoilers, neo-Nazis, instead of that, it's a phantom.

[49:31] Andrew DeWolf: I would say the best way to get around it is give him the magic. Let him be a ghost. Fuck it. Like, that's the only way to really get around like the thing that oh, everyone knows the phantom is the phantom, and it's just against that's true. And we you could even maybe flip it entirely and have it be there's people claiming that it's a man and and like they think that it's like a stalker or something, but then it is a ghost. And like in the literal form.

[49:55] Jesse McAnally: Um the other way I I've had this pitch where it's a literal ghost in the Christine allegory, whoever it would be, because I I kinda like where we're going with this. Give her agency. Make it like a monkey's paw kind of thing, where the ghost is like, yeah, I'll train you, yeah, I'll do what it I'll do whatever you want. Um, but you you uh you gotta tell me what you want. And so it starts as like these normal things, like, oh yeah, I would like to have lessons, and then it would be great if they wouldn't be on tonight, and then it goes on to depraved things, but everything has to be Christine's choice to make happen.

[50:34] Andrew DeWolf: I think I um I gave you this pitch when we first started Phantom Month a while back, and it was um it was the idea that the Phantom maybe isn't even a phantom at all and isn't even pretending to be a phantom. It's just the composer at the opera house.

[50:50] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[50:50] Andrew DeWolf: And he's highly respected and is wants to train Christine, but he's like insanely obsessive and like stalker-ish and that feels real world terrifying.

[51:03] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, and and I think the comparison I gave was the more modern version of the invisible man.

[51:09] Andrew DeWolf: Right.

[51:09] Jesse McAnally: Um, like that those kind of themes. Um, but instead, I mean, maybe we could bring it back and we put it back into the uh old opera house.

[51:17] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[51:17] Jesse McAnally: But now, instead of a guy that lives in the sewer and is disgusting and everyone hates him, it's just it's the composer that everyone respects, and she's trying to like tell people like this guy is like fucked up and he's like doing this to me, and they're just like that guy, like, no, that guy is uh like nobility, like no.

[51:36] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, the wealth disparity, and maybe reintroduce the Phantom of the Paradise, you know, d um um Dorian Gray thing where he you can keep him ugly, but without showing him being ugly. Because that is a little ableist nowadays. There's uh there's a lot of potential to do different stuff with this. And I feel like people are just too afraid to get out of the Andrew Lloyd-Webber musical shadow and just kind of want to hit all the same beats.

[52:00] Jesse McAnally: I think that the themes that I like from all versions is the kind of um paternalistic, like weird vibe between uh the Phantom and Christine, where but I don't like it when she I don't like it when she likes it.

[52:19] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, that's weird.

[52:20] Jesse McAnally: I think that that's what I don't like. I don't like it when she's into it. I think the Robert England version rides that line perfectly in a way that others really fall over one side or the other. Like it would make sense if she's into it at first, but it needs to be something where she realizes what's actually going on and then is like, oh fuck no.

[52:39] Andrew DeWolf: I agree.

[52:40] Jesse McAnally: No, I think I think we might have something. I'd really like like uh Invisible Man style adaptation of Phantom of the Opera. Um where oh god, wouldn't that be a twist? Um where he's the Phantom and like he dresses up as the Phantom or something, but like there's not even there's no guy that lives in the sewer. Like people are like, no, there's no Phantom, there's a guy that lives in the sewer, but there isn't the guy that lives down there. There's a there's just the composer guy that dresses up as a guy that lives down there, or just rigs things to try to have more control and be the one that decides things.

[53:15] Andrew DeWolf: That's that's kind of interesting. That's at least a pitch. And like the whole movie is like she has to try to prove that he is doing all this. And I mean, probably the conclusion would be that she can't prove that he's doing all this, and she just has to kill him.

[53:32] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, big murder man. Uh but Phantom of the Opera. Phantom of the Opera. Um, what is talked it to fucking death? We are. We'll see you next year for Phantom May next month. I don't know, maybe if I remember. If Phantom Month will come back whenever Jesse's doing something that's emotionally taxing outside of this.

[53:54] Andrew DeWolf: We'll cover the other opera from Dario Argento or some shit.

[53:58] Jesse McAnally: Honestly, I think you'd actually enjoy that one. I kind of like that movie. Uh what what there's so much phantom shit, but I feel like we've covered so much. We hate we've covered a good amount, but we haven't we haven't even scraped it. We haven't talked about Song at Midnight, the Phantom of Hollywood, um, the Phantom of the Megaplex.

[54:09] Andrew DeWolf: Phantom of the Megaplex.

[54:17] Jesse McAnally: Is that even different than Phantom of the Mall at that point?

[54:20] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, it's at a Megaplex and it was a Disney Channel original movie.

[54:24] Jesse McAnally: Oh my god. What the fuck?

[54:27] Andrew DeWolf: Um Phantom of Camp Rock. We didn't talk about Return of the Phantom, the point and click graphic adventure game developed and published by Micropose.

[54:34] Jesse McAnally: Okay, I mean I'll talk about a classic adventure game. Honestly, I wouldn't mind doing a let's play series with you and I on that. We we they're still gonna play the uh the Le Miz fighting game.

[54:45] Andrew DeWolf: I was gonna beat your ass in that show.

[54:46] Jesse McAnally: Honestly, I feel like maybe we should do that for like a charity night or something.

[54:51] Andrew DeWolf: Uh what was that? It was called something silly. I forget what it was.

[54:55] Jesse McAnally: Uh Miz, Jon Valjell Revenge.

[54:58] Andrew DeWolf: No, it's uh it's something really weird because it was like a a Japanese game.

[55:03] Jesse McAnally: Oh, it's a Japanese? I thought it was.

[55:06] Andrew DeWolf: Ley Miz in that language sounds like something else, and they called it that.

[55:11] Jesse McAnally: I can't remember. Either way, if you want us to do that for a live stream, uh maybe we'll do it on Patreon.

[55:17] Andrew DeWolf: And we'll place bets, uh we'll make a betting pool, and whoever wins will donate that money for to charity. How's that sound?

[55:24] Jesse McAnally: It's called Arm Joe.

[55:26] Andrew DeWolf: Arm Joe. That's that's weird because the Japanese uh anime of Le Miz is called Le Mizalab Jojo Cassette.

[55:33] Jesse McAnally: No, so Le Mizerab in Japan is known as uh uh Amujo.

[55:39] Andrew DeWolf: Uh cruelty.

[55:43] Jesse McAnally: Ah, cruelty.

[55:45] Andrew DeWolf: Ah, French from the room.

[55:48] Jesse McAnally: But of course it sounds it sounds like Arm Joe. You know what else sounds like Arm Joe? Archie's ratings. What was your overall thoughts on the Phantom of the Opera by Ken Hill's and your cheese rating?

[55:59] Andrew DeWolf: Holy fucking shit, this one's boring. Don't watch this one. Don't do it. It's not worth your loan. It's not worth your it's not worth your fucking time. You love yourself. Don't do this to yourself. I'm just gonna put it on the tier list really quick. Uh this is in uh This is in C tier below Phantom of the Mall.

[56:15] Jesse McAnally: I feel like too uh it's it's like right barely above D tier. I think you should move Phantom of the Mall above uh Weber's move the Andrew Lloyd-Webber.

[56:26] Andrew DeWolf: I also think I'm going to do that as well, yeah.

[56:28] Jesse McAnally: Like and then uh cheese rating. Like, honestly, I would give this like a themed cheese or something, but it doesn't fucking deserve it. This is like uh it's like milk. It's like it's it's like the most boring, bland, basic dairy product you can imagine.

[56:45] Andrew DeWolf: Uh it's that.

[56:48] Jesse McAnally: I'd give this cottage cheese. It's not even cheese. What what is this? What are you trying to sell to me? Like, it doesn't go down easy, it doesn't mix well with anything. You're trying to convince me it's a fun superfood. Fuck you. I'm sorry, Ken Hill's. I know you inspired a uh a big fucking super thing, but this ain't it, Chief.

[57:08] Andrew DeWolf: No.

[57:09] Jesse McAnally: You got creatively cucked by Andrew Lloyd-Webber. You're one of many. He he beat you. I'm sorry. He his is better. I don't know what else to say. Uh maybe one day you'll write a good musical. I actually think Ken Hill's is dead, so I don't think he can.

[57:24] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, he wrote uh he helped write uh Joseph.

[57:27] Jesse McAnally: I guess. Uh yeah, he died in January of 1995.

[57:31] Andrew DeWolf: Well, your work will still live on and we'll piss all over it. Sorry, Ken Hill's.

[57:34] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, maybe he's got some good stuff in there. Maybe he did a play version of the Invisible Man.

[57:41] Andrew DeWolf: Invisible Man, really?

[57:42] Jesse McAnally: Yeah. We were just talking about that. The Mummies Tomb and Zorro the musical.

[57:46] Andrew DeWolf: Okay.

[57:47] Jesse McAnally: Know what else is okay? Our wonderful patrons. Thank you guys for listening. Please follow us on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Musicals with Cheese. Leave us a review, goddammit. It's been a minute. We'll read it on the show. Promise. Even if it's bad. We don't even have to do a good job, but we still got our two mil.

[58:02] Andrew DeWolf: Um, please follow us on Twitter at Cheesy Musicals, Patreon, Musicals, Cheese, Instagram, Musicals, Cheese, YouTube page musicals cheese, patron only podcast, Patreon, but cheese, email us at musicaltheatrelives@gmail.com. Our keeper of the cheese is Juliet Antonio.

[58:15] Jesse McAnally: Here is some ASMR for you, Juliet. Ken Hill's got cooked. Thank you to the Broadway Podcast Network for having us on the platform. Anything else you got left to say, Andrew?

[58:28] Andrew DeWolf: This Ken Hill guy, I feel bad. His his Wikipedia doesn't even have a picture. No one knows what he looks like. He has no nose. Poor Ken Hill.

[58:38] Jesse McAnally: You deserve better. And thus ends Phantom Month. Poor Ken Hill. We'll see you next time on Musicals with Cheese.

[58:45] Andrew DeWolf: Bob Bob.