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[0:00] Jesse McAnally: Hello, I'm Jesse McAnally. And I'm Andrew DeWolf.

[0:09] Andrew DeWolf: I tend the tale of musicals with cheese, a podcast where Andrew likes musical theater.

[0:14] Jesse McAnally: I show him new shows every week and then he somehow doesn't enjoy them. That's the show we're currently on. The podcast of musicals with cheese.

[0:28] Andrew DeWolf: I did. I did. I gave it your best. I'll put a karaoke version under it. We'll see how bad it sounds. Oh, and in case you haven't figured it out, we are going we're re piloting. Do you know what that that's the term that they give re piloting?

[0:42] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, in the in the TV industry, when they basically want to make a new jumping on point for their show, like when Futurama gets canceled and brought back and canceled and brought back and then canceled and brought back again, you have to kind of do a new pilot. And they often just recreate the original pilot with different vibes because that's the best you can do. Doctor Who has done it basically every time there's a new doctor, you kind of have to re pilot. And in this case, we are doing it because we are redoing our first episode more or less.

[1:18] Andrew DeWolf: We're doing it again with more. In fact, you could say it's a revival of sorts.

[1:23] Jesse McAnally: Oh, yes, this is the revival of our first episode of musicals with cheese when we were much less good at what we did, but also much more edgy and douchey.

[1:35] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. So like worse in every way.

[1:40] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, we're going to sanitize the edges, make sure that no one's going to get offended and add a bunch of dance numbers where they didn't need to be any. On that note, in case you haven't picked up what we're throwing down this week, we are talking about Sweeney Todd, the Demon Barber of Fleet Street again. Cue the music.

[2:04] ♪ Musical number: "Attend the Tale of Sweeney Todd" — performed by Original Cast ♪

[2:31] Jesse McAnally: Sweeney Todd, the Demon Barber of Fleet Street is a musical with a book by Hugh Wheeler and music and lyrics by Stephen Sondheim based on Sweeney Todd by Christopher Bond. The original production premiered off Broadway at the Eris Theatre on March 1st, 1979 and closed June 29th, 1980 after 557 performances and 19 previews. The 2023 revival, which is mostly what our frame of reference is going to be today, of the musical began previews on February 26th and opened March 26th of 2023 at the Lunt-Fontanne Theatre, starring Josh Groban as Sweeney Todd, Annalie Ashford as Mrs. Lovett, Jordan Fisher as Antony, Gaten Matarazzo as Tobias, Maria Bilbao as Joanna, Jamie Jackson as Judge Turpin, Ruthie Ann Miles as The Beggar Woman, John Rapson as Beetle Banford, and Nicholas Christopher as Pirelli.

The production is directed by Thomas Kail with orchestrations by Jonathan Tunick, musical supervision by Alex Lacamoire, and choreography by Stephen Hoggett. The production began a workshop three days after Sondheim's death that he had been planning to attend, and it had a budget of $14 million and a cast of 26 and an orchestra of 27. They are bringing back the original orchestrations, which they decidedly did not do in the 2005 revival, which is a different story. The plot of Sweeney Todd is, after 15 years in exile, Sweeney Todd, an unsettling man with a mysterious past, arrives in a dark and gritty London, hungry for vengeance against the judge who destroyed his life. Todd joins forces with Mrs. Lovett, the unhinged proprietress of a failing pie shop, and together they develop a spine-tingling plot to exact revenge. When the lights go down and the curtain goes up, you won't dare to look away.

[4:16] Andrew DeWolf: So, Jesse and I both saw the recent 2023 revival of Sweeney Todd in New York City on different times. Beautiful, smoggy, smoky, yellow New York City.

[4:28] Jesse McAnally: It's like someone urinated all over the city today.

[4:34] Andrew DeWolf: The sky is yellow. It's the city on fire, in fact.

[4:39] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, the rats are on the street and the lunatics yelling at the street, it is the end of the world, yes. Literally, Sweeney Todd predicted what New York was going to look like. What did you think of Sweeney Todd? For many years that we've done this podcast, what have we been doing, five years this September now?

[4:53] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[4:54] Jesse McAnally: My god, that's half a decade. Fucking long.

[4:56] Andrew DeWolf: We're getting old.

[4:57] Jesse McAnally: We really are. We're going to be coming up on our 30s soon. We were just little babies when we started this show. But ever since we started, you said, Sweeney Todd, we started too high and nothing has touched it since.

[5:10] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, it's still sort of true.

[5:13] Jesse McAnally: It's still...

[5:14] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, sort of.

[5:14] Jesse McAnally: Well, I think there's other shows that I would put on a similar level now. I would probably put like, you know, Les Mis is really good. I really enjoyed Hadestown. There's quite a few, but it's still like Sweeney Todd is just fucking masterful, you know? It's like, how do you start there and then it's, you know, it's all downhill, right?

[5:41] Andrew DeWolf: From when we first did our first podcast, our first official episode of Musicals with Cheese, we were not even really a podcast yet. We were kind of just a series of weird YouTube videos.

[5:53] Jesse McAnally: I don't even think we introduced ourselves as Musicals with Cheese in that episode.

[5:56] Andrew DeWolf: I don't think we did.

[5:58] Jesse McAnally: We did use cheese ratings, though. So your opinion on if it hasn't really changed over the years, like, have you revisited it since? Like, on your own outside of the show?

[6:06] Andrew DeWolf: Um, I haven't watched the stage one. I've watched the movie, like, one other time, I think.

[6:12] Jesse McAnally: How well has the movie aged, in your opinion? Because I feel like this recent revival does take a few cues from the movie.

[6:19] Andrew DeWolf: A few. Honestly, I think the movie, while still being decent, kind of fumbles the ball a little bit. Like, it doesn't quite live up tone-wise to what the stage show does. And actually, after watching the revival, I was thinking about the movie and just, it was such a bad choice to have, um, God, what the fuck is the guy's name? Tim Burton. It was such a bad choice to have Tim Burton direct, in my opinion. He just, he doesn't fit the genre of movie that this needs to be.

[7:01] Jesse McAnally: Do you know who was almost the director of Sweeney Todd before Tim Burton signed on?

[7:07] Andrew DeWolf: I don't, but I'm hoping it was Tobey Hooper.

[7:09] Jesse McAnally: No, Tobey Hooper would have been a wild, wild choice. It was Sam Mendes.

[7:17] Andrew DeWolf: Who is Sam Mendes? Give me the rundown.

[7:20] Jesse McAnally: He is a director who got his start on the stage, so he's kind of like a John Marshall type. He directed American Beauty, Road to Perdition, Revolutionary Road, Skyfall, Spectre, and 1917 are the big ones.

[7:39] Andrew DeWolf: Not a single horror movie in there.

[7:39] Jesse McAnally: No, I think they probably didn't want a horror director at all.

[7:44] Andrew DeWolf: No, they did not.

[7:45] Jesse McAnally: Because it's a musical, I guess, but watching the stage one, it's like, there are so many good horror moments in here. How do you not get a horror director to make this movie, you know? I feel like that's why they fumbled it so bad in Tim Burton's style.

[8:07] Andrew DeWolf: I know some normies are going to be like, well, Tim Burton does make horror movies. Like, no, he doesn't. He makes goth movies.

[8:11] Jesse McAnally: No, he doesn't.

[8:16] Andrew DeWolf: The closest thing to a horror movie is Sweeney Todd. The second closest thing is Sleepy Hollow, and I think Sleepy Hollow fucks. I think that movie's fun. That's not a horror movie.

[8:25] Jesse McAnally: I'm not saying his movies are necessarily bad. I just don't think they're horror movies. Sleepy Hollow is basically a slasher movie, but every quote unquote kill is a joke.

[8:36] Andrew DeWolf: They kind of do a similar thing in Sweeney Todd.

[8:40] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, which works for that movie. But you know who Sam Mendes's first choice for Sweeney Todd was going to be?

[8:46] Andrew DeWolf: I don't think I could guess in a million years.

[8:49] Jesse McAnally: Gary Oldman.

[8:51] Andrew DeWolf: And I'm just like, no, thank you. He might not have done that bad of a job, but who's going to sing the songs? But the one choice that he did have that I was kind of into, he wanted Tony Collette to play Mrs. Lovett, and I think that is an inspired choice and would have been incredible.

[9:10] Jesse McAnally: You will never get a good Sweeney Todd movie. It just won't happen.

[9:13] Andrew DeWolf: No. I think they were almost there, because I think I talked about this in our first episode. John Logan's original script took a throwaway line that always kind of confused me in the stage version, where he's like, I am haunted by the shadows everywhere. Ghosts.

[9:31] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[9:33] Andrew DeWolf: And they were going to literalize that with Christopher Lee playing, basically, the person singing to turn the tale of Sweeney Todd. And as Sweeney Todd killed people, that choir would get bigger and bigger with the people he's murdered until he eventually joined it at the end.

[9:50] Jesse McAnally: That's not even a horrible idea.

[9:52] Andrew DeWolf: But they were planning to shoot it. Christopher Lee recorded it. Anthony Stewart Head is still in the movie. He was supposed to be a part of that choir and just has a one-line role in the movie. And then Johnny Depp's daughter got really sick, and they had to shoot around him. So they took all that material and had to cut it and move other stuff around because Johnny Depp couldn't be on set to shoot that stuff.

[10:16] Jesse McAnally: But basically, every time Sweeney Todd was going to kill someone, he would look in the mirror and he would see a man with a slit throat all standing behind him singing at him. Like, really stylistically cool shit for a movie like this. I would have been so into that.

[10:31] Andrew DeWolf: It's that. And there's an element that I want the movie to fill, which is like this Victorian horror where it's like candlelit and it's extremely dark. And the part where Toby gets locked in the cellar, that should be so claustrophobic. But when you watch the Tim Burton one, it just doesn't feel... There's no tension there. There's nothing.

[10:59] Jesse McAnally: No, there's nothing. Let's talk about this show in general. I think it's got a perfect structure. I think the overall feel of it... I fell in love with this show, the George Hearn, Patti LuPone production, as well as the George Hearn, Angela Lansbury production.

[11:18] Andrew DeWolf: But since we've recorded it, I have found a newfound affection from the original cast album.

[11:23] Jesse McAnally: Really?

[11:23] Andrew DeWolf: Which was something I didn't dive into as much. And I think Len Carrey, you might be my favorite Sweeney Todd. The original.

[11:29] Jesse McAnally: Because in audio alone...

[11:29] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, the original, original. In audio alone, he conveys the fear, like he sounds unhinged, but subtle.

[12:05] Jesse McAnally: Because George Hearn is big and screaming, and Len Carrey was like, yeah, I'm going to kill you. I guess that's what's going to happen.

[12:15] Andrew DeWolf: And you believe him. And it's a calm and psychopathic feel to it. And it's a less is more performance, which I think is what Johnny Depp was going for, and it just doesn't work.

[12:28] Jesse McAnally: I think Sweeney Todd as a character, my impression of him is he's very apathetic, in a way. He's one-minded. He only cares about one thing, and everything else, he's just completely apathetic to. So that's why you have these very big emotional numbers, like epiphany, but at the same time, he's completely emotionless in almost everything else he does. So it's interesting. But he's analytical about his own emotions, specifically in the song Joanna, where he's like, I guess I'll think of you, I guess, until the day I die, but I miss you less and less as every day goes by.

[13:07] Andrew DeWolf: Because he doesn't actually care about her anymore. All he cares about now is revenge. The idea of her and what could have been, as opposed to an actual human being. He doesn't actually care. And he literally sees her later on in the show and tries to kill her.

[13:25] Jesse McAnally: Doesn't even recognize her.

[13:27] Andrew DeWolf: No, no, no. But that's kind of my problem with Josh Groban's performance. And I see what he's doing. I can tell he's done his research. I don't want to undersell. He has a voice of an angel. He is definitely trying to play the scary, but it just doesn't land, because he seems a little too smiley.

[13:44] Jesse McAnally: I think he has, and honestly, me personally, I think he did a decent job. I don't think he really did that bad. But I think part of the problem is that he is like this famous star, who's kind of well known for being like a wholesome guy who just...

[14:03] Andrew DeWolf: Golden retriever energy.

[14:04] Jesse McAnally: Yeah. So it's kind of difficult to see him in the role. But I do think, for the most part, he sells the bigger moments that are needed.

[14:14] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. Okay, let me rank them in my own weird way. So I love all three Broadway Sweeneys. All of them, I think, are fantastic in their own way and have brought something new to the role. Len Carrey, obviously, is my favorite. Michael Cerveris is a darker, much creepier, like much more Hammer Horror-y version of Sweeney.

[14:35] Jesse McAnally: Like a Christopher Lee Dracula type?

[14:39] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, like almost like he talks like this and every word gets its moment. But he also is the most sarcastic and frustrated Sweeney and most violent.

[14:55] Andrew DeWolf: I could see that as a performance, though. I could see that as a choice. I really liked it. Having him be more into it, like, I could see it. The thing is, he's such a... he's an open character, I think. Because he doesn't have very much going on other than just, I want revenge, and I hate everything. So you could really play that a lot of different ways. That's not to say I haven't seen some Sweeney Todd's I really, really disliked. He's a great voice. Fantastic opera singer. Dogshit actor. And he was in the Emma Thomason production, and he's just giving nothing. Give nothing to us, baby. And then you've got, like, on the opposite side of the gradient, Michael Ball, who... I have a weird opinion here.

I don't think Sweeney Todd should have a British accent. I think it's distracting when he does. I mean, yeah, I guess, now that I'm thinking about it, I don't think I've seen one where they have a real British accent. Aside from Johnny Depp in the movie, where it's still a little distracting? Yeah, but it's kind of a bullshit British accent. I don't know. Yeah, and it's always been a tradition where Mrs. Lovett will have a real British accent, but Sweeney will not, and I don't know why that is the choice, but Michael Ball's British accent kind of kills... It feels like a joke to me.

[16:19] Jess McAnally: All this running and shouting, what is it now, dear? I heard him. Oh, the sailor burst in, I saw them both running down the street, and I said to myself, well, that's fattening. I heard him. His throat was bare beneath my hand. We're there, dear, don't fret. No, I heard him. His throat was bare, now he'll never come again. That's why I really appreciate that Josh... The first tweet I made when I heard that preview set started was like, does Josh Groban do a British accent or do they keep him American? I was like, because I feel like I'll be very distracted if he does a British accent. Well, thankfully he does not, so that keeps him out of that, I guess your F tier here. Yeah, so those two are my F tier.

I would put Josh Groban in B, and I would put Len Carrieux and Michael Cerveris in A for two different reasons. My problems with Josh Groban is, he's not scary, but that almost makes the parts where he is just slitting throats a little bit more interesting. He's so just matter-of-fact about it, and he doesn't try to play a slasher villain in any way. He's just like, no, I just kill people. He's just a guy, and I kind of appreciated that he's just kind of a dude, and he puts jokes into his lines. I feel like he's just doing that to match the energy of Annaleigh Ashford, but he also got the biggest laugh out of me in the entire show, which is during By the Sea, she does this big hoo-hoo with her hands, and then when he sees it coming again, he ducks, and I thought that was really funny, and that was wonderful. Honestly, I do think the revival did a lot of really good things that made it memorable for me and was a good experience overall.

[18:06] Andrew DeWolf: How'd you like the staging? Because we don't have the big center box in the middle, that's the pie shop, it's more traditionally staged. I didn't mind the staging. The only problem I had, and I think this is a problem probably a lot of people would have had, if you're sitting near the back, you can't see anything going on on the freaking balcony they have on stage there. Which, you know, fair enough. I might say the mezzanine's a better choice for seating than the orchestra, to be honest. It almost feels like you could have just lowered that balcony a little bit, and it would have been visible for more people. It's maybe just a little higher than it needs to be, but it's hard to say, I guess.

I'm not a person that does staging for theater. So this is directed by Thomas Kail, who also directed Hamilton. And you can tell... There is quite a bit of the Hamilton-style dancing. I fucking hated every bit of dancing in this show. I really did not like the dancing in this show at all.

[19:14] Jess McAnally: I didn't really hate it that much, because most of it is relatively subtle, and it's like group dancing type. I don't know. It wasn't too bad for me. Like the poor thing ballet is one thing, and I didn't like that really. And you probably didn't see that because it was on the balcony, but there's this whole ballet with Lucy and the judge and all that.

[19:36] Andrew DeWolf: I could see some of it. You could see some of it on the balcony. It's just you couldn't see everything. So you're kind of like tilting your head down, and you're like, eh? But when the ghosts are doing the Elkanamanaman dance while they're singing about Sweeney Todd, the demon Barbara Fleet Street, and turning their head on every movement... I mean, that song's a little jumpy to begin with. I think that it's interesting. Maybe it's not a choice everyone will like, but I think it's not like an objectively bad choice. It's just something that's different, and I don't hate it. I don't think every musical needs dancing, and Sweeney Todd feels like a very stationary musical.

[20:14] Jess McAnally: Look, you just kind of fucking hate dancing. I mean, let's be real here. Every single time dancing comes up, you're always like, oh, you liked the dancing in this show? What's wrong with you? Like, come on, Jess. It's okay to have people try to entertain you on stage, you know? They can use their whole body to do it as well. You can use your whole body to perform. You don't need to have Toby doing flips and laying down and being lifted into the air like an angel because he's singing about a pie, though.

[20:44] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, that part was fun, though. You don't need people popping and locking while singing about slitting throats. I feel like the way that they were moving was interesting enough and kind of, like, frightening, you know? Where it's like the horror movements, you know what I'm saying? Where, like, you have the It monster move at a weird frame rate or some shit so it looks weird. You know what I'm talking about.

[21:08] Jess McAnally: I guess. I think dancing takes you out of the fear, to be honest. I feel like, outside of the poor thing ballet, it really didn't work for me.

[21:18] Andrew DeWolf: That is fine. They did stop dancing near the end because it started getting pretty scary, so... Like, it's one thing to have a dance during a little priest, like a little jig or whatever, but...

[21:30] Jess McAnally: You just hate dancing.

[21:32] Andrew DeWolf: I'm not a fan of it.

[21:33] Jess McAnally: You just hate dancing.

[21:34] Andrew DeWolf: I don't always hate dancing.

[21:35] Jess McAnally: Name one dance that you like.

[21:37] Andrew DeWolf: I like the carousel ballet in the second half of Carousel.

[21:40] Jess McAnally: Yeah, that's the only part of that show that you do like.

[21:42] Andrew DeWolf: No! Go check that episode! Check that episode, fellas. I disagree. In Brent's musical, I really like console dances.

[21:49] Jess McAnally: What's your thought on Pirelli being an Irish-Italian-Asian man?

[22:02] Andrew DeWolf: I think it's great. I actually also agree. I think that it's amazing. I feel like it adds another layer to the whole thing. And he's also the standby for Sweeney Todd, so if Josh Groban steps out, he steps in and plays Sweeney. So he has to have a very versatile voice. Can you imagine how fucking pissed people would be when Josh Groban doesn't walk on stage, though? Did they scream when he walked on stage?

[22:27] Jess McAnally: Yeah, of course they did. At your performance. Are you kidding me? It was like he had to stop the song for like five seconds to wait for people to...

[22:35] Andrew DeWolf: Attend the tale of... Attend the tale of Sweeney Todd. I literally couldn't hear his first line.

[22:41] Jess McAnally: Yeah, never. I don't even know why he bothers to sing it.

[22:48] Andrew DeWolf: I like Pirelli. You know who was... I was talking to Miranda after we left. You know who was secretly one of my favorite parts of the show?

[22:55] Jess McAnally: Who?

[22:56] Andrew DeWolf: The Beatle. The Beatle took that role and played it so differently. The Beatle did really well. I already kind of am a fan of the really weird, dumb songs at the end where he sings about the 12 bells or whatever.

[23:11] Jess McAnally: You've never heard those before.

[23:13] Andrew DeWolf: Well, I've heard the song, but I don't think I've seen... I don't know.

[23:18] Jess McAnally: Yeah, because it was in the original Broadway recording.

[23:21] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I don't think I've seen it, but I've seen it now. I really like how they do it. I think that that whole section is... There's a lot of tension to that, even though it's a really silly thing just because of the staging with Toby being in the creepy cellar. But the Beatle's amazing. He plays it so differently than any other version. He plays everything for the comedy, but it's still very threatening. And the biggest laugh of the night for the audience is when he says the winner is Todd because he spits it out so quickly.

[24:05] Jess McAnally: Well, yeah, because it's pretty obvious who won. It was just like, the winner is Todd. And it's just like the song ends. And it's not like the other ones where it's like, the winner is Todd! It's just very matter of fact. And of course, he has this incredible voice that sings the higher than high. But if we're talking about villains, there is one thing that I like the movie that it did, and nothing has done it since, I don't believe. I don't like how old and daughtering they made the judge in this production.

[24:31] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, it makes him... Not a threat.

[24:35] Jess McAnally: Yeah, it makes him seem less threatening. It's almost like just this dumb old man, you know? This weird, creepy old guy.

[24:43] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I think I like how explicit they are that he's definitely just grooming fucking Joanna, though, and it's kind of fucked up. But I kind of like, in the Tim Burton movie, that Alan Rickman, he's kind of sexy, but kind of dangerous, and more of a contemporary of Todd's than someone significantly older. Like, you could see them knowing and respecting each other in real society, and having that kind of vibe to each other. Whereas here, I'm like, this man and Josh Groban would not talk to each other. They would not spend time with each other. They are wholly different. I do think part of it, though, is the judge is older because, I mean, there is this angle of he essentially is grooming all of these girls, and so he has to have this position of authority over them, but also it would make sense if he was also older than them as well. But I suppose he doesn't have to be.

[25:45] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, we gotta talk about Anthony and Joanna, which is probably the weakest part of most productions, but goddamn, Jordan Fisher doesn't bring a lot of genuine sincerity and youthful energy to Anthony. And jokes. Lots of jokes that I didn't see were there, but not in the same Ken doll way as the Broadway version. Was it just me? I don't know if you noticed this, or if this is something they do in all the productions, and I missed it. Did they let Joanna actually do something by having her grab the gun and shoot the guy?

[26:21] Jess McAnally: Yes, that has always been in every production.

[26:23] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, okay. I wasn't sure. That is good, though. But my favorite part is, in the original Broadway production, Sweet Todd gives Anthony the gun, and he's like, kill if you need to. And he just grabs it like a little boy, and he's like, I'll kill a hundred gods if it means setting Joanna free. And then when he gets in there, he's like, I can't do it! Joanna has to shoot him. He's a little too high-minded or whatever. He's too romantic, is what it is. He thinks it's a romantic thing to do, to kill to save the girl, but then when he's confronted with actually killing someone, he can't. But Jordan Fisher plays it much more like, yeah, I'll kill people totally. That's totally slang, I'll do. From the vibe, like, nah, I need his vibe. I really like Joanna. She's much more ticky in this version than she is in any other production. She's banging on her head. She's more of a human being with normal traits rather than an object to be held by Turpin, Anthony, and Sweeney.

[27:30] Jess McAnally: Yeah, I mean, it's a tough role because the place that she's put in is that she is basically just an object to three different characters that are all men. So it's like, what exactly do you do to fix that? I think the way the character is performed can help, though. That being said, I love those two. They were great. Stranger Things boy as Toby. He did fine. I wasn't hugely impressed, but there was nothing where I was like, ah, he really fucked that up. I was pretty impressed just because it's not an easy role to play.

[28:09] Andrew DeWolf: I guess we should talk about the ending because that is an important part for Toby to nail. What did you think?

[28:15] Jess McAnally: I thought it was fine. That ending can be accidentally comedic and he played it really, really well. Honestly, that's probably where he shone. You don't want the audience to laugh there.

[28:27] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[28:28] Jess McAnally: And the lines are kind of ridiculous and really hard to deliver.

[28:32] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, because it's very easy to sell it as silly rather than frightening if you don't have the audience, if you don't sell it right, really. And it's almost a cruel joke when everyone just runs in as he's slitting Sweeney Todd's throat surrounded by five other dead bodies. You almost want to laugh and it's impressive that you don't. But I think we all know who the MVP here is and that's Annaleigh Ashford as Mrs. Lovett.

[29:05] Jess McAnally: Yeah. I mean, Mrs. Lovett is a character that kind of sells the whole show in a lot of ways because she's the one that has the most energy and is the most... Has the most solos. She's also just the most evil as well. Just directly, I would say. Deceptively. Yeah, Sweeney Todd is the obvious... Well, he's a murderer, but he wouldn't even be the murderer he is if she wasn't just encouraging him. And the fact that I was worried because I'm like, Annaleigh Ashford's pretty young. You feel every ounce of it and it's used to the benefit of her specific performance. Like, she's a much more sexual Mrs. Lovett. Much more actively horny for her.

[29:48] Andrew DeWolf: Sweeney Todd than any of the other ones. I'd say where all the other ones were very horny for him.

[29:53] Jesse McAnally: This one is much more like, I want to fuck you!

[29:56] Andrew DeWolf: She's very blatant about it.

[29:57] Jesse McAnally: Please fuck me!

[29:58] Andrew DeWolf: It's blatant to the point where it's like, damn, Sweeney is, uh, he really doesn't want to fuck her.

[30:03] Jesse McAnally: Like, the fact that she's this, like, upfront about it and he's still so apathetic.

[30:10] Andrew DeWolf: Like, he really has no interest whatsoever.

[30:13] Jesse McAnally: I disagree. I feel like this is the one where they kind of have the most, at least, romantic chemistry.

[30:19] Andrew DeWolf: Not romantic, like, friendship chemistry.

[30:21] Jesse McAnally: Like, I feel like he actually likes her a bit in this.

[30:24] Andrew DeWolf: Maybe friendship, but he definitely does not want a romantic relationship.

[30:28] Jesse McAnally: No, but I do believe they've had sex.

[30:30] Andrew DeWolf: Specifically about, like, how intimate they get during, uh, By the Sea where she's, like, putting his feet on her and he's accepting her feet on him and, like, things like that.

[30:41] Jesse McAnally: I'm like, okay, there's something there.

[30:43] Andrew DeWolf: And the fact that she's always going down by his crotch and he doesn't seem to have an issue with that.

[30:48] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, I don't know. I guess he does make her pretty hot, so.

[30:52] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, yes, yes, I caught it.

[30:56] Jesse McAnally: She does find a lot of jokes where there weren't previously jokes, which I appreciated.

[31:03] Andrew DeWolf: Especially, like, Worst Pies in London, there are moments where you are given stage directions in the music.

[31:10] Jesse McAnally: And she is finding new things to do with her body for them.

[31:14] Andrew DeWolf: Like, instead of just smacking a roach, she does a full body dive for a roach and then gets back up on the next beat.

[31:20] Jesse McAnally: And it's pretty fun to watch.

[31:22] Andrew DeWolf: Which is already a difficult song to perform, so it's impressive that she is, like, diving on the floor and still able to keep going.

[31:28] Jesse McAnally: And, yeah.

[31:31] Andrew DeWolf: You did have a concern, a mishearing, I believe, when you saw it.

[31:36] Jesse McAnally: I didn't really think much of it, because I was pretty sure I just misheard something.

[31:41] Andrew DeWolf: When she took the knives out at first, I thought she said, I could have sold these on eBay for a pretty penny.

[31:47] Jesse McAnally: And I was like, what?

[31:50] Andrew DeWolf: Why would you slip that in there? That's really dumb.

[31:53] Jesse McAnally: And it took me out for a second, but I was like, I probably just misheard it. She didn't say that.

[31:58] Andrew DeWolf: I could have sold them. Cocked in the head, wasn't I?

[32:01] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, I don't know how I heard it that way.

[32:03] Andrew DeWolf: I think the audience was, like, clapping or something when she was doing it. I don't know.

[32:07] Jesse McAnally: She also does this little handstand while she's up there, or pull-up thing.

[32:12] Andrew DeWolf: There's a lot of fun little things.

[32:14] Jesse McAnally: So she's always finding a new joke in a scene.

[32:17] Andrew DeWolf: Including, like, a little priest.

[32:19] Jesse McAnally: She would deliver the joke differently than everyone else has previously.

[32:23] Andrew DeWolf: And as far as I'm concerned, she's probably my favorite Mrs. Lovett to ever play the role.

[32:27] Jesse McAnally: Really? Better than... Okay. Alright.

[32:30] Andrew DeWolf: Because Lansbury does it too fast, Patti LuPone's accent is terrible, and a lot of them don't really have jokes.

[32:36] Jesse McAnally: So, among the three, she's number one.

[32:40] Andrew DeWolf: The set was fine. Minimalist. I like Minimalist for this show.

[32:44] Jesse McAnally: I think the more vague we can get, the better off it'll be.

[32:47] Andrew DeWolf: I think the tower that they have is cool.

[32:49] Jesse McAnally: When it turns, it has the flap where the people come out.

[32:54] Andrew DeWolf: That was a pretty cool aspect of it.

[32:58] Jesse McAnally: It's very basic, though. There's really not much to it.

[33:01] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, there's not, like, a big set surprise or anything like that.

[33:04] Jesse McAnally: No.

[33:05] Andrew DeWolf: Like, you're getting what you're getting.

[33:06] Jesse McAnally: Which is fine.

[33:08] Andrew DeWolf: I do like the big oven. I think the part where he...

[33:11] Jesse McAnally: The big oven is really cool.

[33:13] Andrew DeWolf: The part where he throws her in there was pretty brutal. I really liked that.

[33:20] Jesse McAnally: I judge my Sweeney Todd relationships is whether or not...

[33:26] Andrew DeWolf: Mrs. Lovett knows she's going to die before she dies.

[33:29] Jesse McAnally: There are some times you can play it where she's totally like, Oh, great! Yeah, we're gonna be alright.

[33:33] Andrew DeWolf: And sometimes she's just like, Ah, yep, I'm about to die, aren't I?

[33:37] Jesse McAnally: Which one would you put this in?

[33:39] Andrew DeWolf: I think I'd put it right in the middle.

[33:41] Jesse McAnally: Because I think she realizes that she's happy, and then it just goes right in the last line.

[33:47] Andrew DeWolf: Just keep living it. Oh, God.

[33:49] Jesse McAnally: That's when she made the realization, is when she's like, Oh, I see what you're doing. Oh, fuck. Oh, fuck.

[33:54] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, and then she jumped into the flames.

[33:57] Jesse McAnally: I do want to bring this up because I had a slightly different performer than you did.

[34:01] Andrew DeWolf: Alright, this is our favorite segment where we compare our opinions to those of the real theater critics over on Letterboxd.com.

[34:09] Jesse McAnally: Alright, Andrew.

[34:10] Andrew DeWolf: So this is the movie?

[34:11] Jesse McAnally: This is for the movie and the Broadway recording.

[34:15] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, the Broadway recording has some, too. Okay.

[34:17] Jesse McAnally: So it's a good mix. Are you ready?

[34:19] Andrew DeWolf: I'm ready.

[34:27] Jesse McAnally: Shake an ass.

[34:28] Andrew DeWolf: That's a five-star.

[34:30] Jesse McAnally: That is correct. Hell yeah.

[34:31] Andrew DeWolf: Shit barber gives man-dumb dead trims blood.

[34:35] Jesse McAnally: You what now? You want to repeat that?

[34:38] Andrew DeWolf: Give shit dead then dib blood?

[34:41] Jesse McAnally: No. Shit barber, comma, gives man-dumb dead trims blood.

[34:46] Andrew DeWolf: Uh-huh. Okay. That's a one-star, I think.

[34:50] Jesse McAnally: That is correct.

[34:51] Andrew DeWolf: This isn't even fictional. British people just be like that.

[34:55] Jesse McAnally: You know, I actually say this a lot.

[34:56] Andrew DeWolf: British people do often kill people just for fun.

[34:59] Jesse McAnally: Okay, uh, yeah. Five stars. Five stars.

[35:02] Andrew DeWolf: Um, that is a one-star.

[35:04] Jesse McAnally: Motherfucker.

[35:05] Andrew DeWolf: This movie walks so Les Miserable could...walk slightly faster.

[35:10] Jesse McAnally: Yeesh. Um, that seems like this person has terrible taste.

[35:15] Andrew DeWolf: Uh, they think the Les Mis movie is better than the Sweeney Todd movie?

[35:19] Jesse McAnally: No, it just walks faster.

[35:20] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, it walks faster. Okay.

[35:21] Jesse McAnally: Um, I'm gonna give it a five-star, though. It sounds like they liked it.

[35:24] Andrew DeWolf: That is a one-star.

[35:25] Jesse McAnally: Mother...

[35:26] Andrew DeWolf: Mmm.

[35:27] Jesse McAnally: Honestly, I forgive Mrs. Lovett. She's too hot.

[35:30] Andrew DeWolf: She is too hot. Are they doing the pun?

[35:33] Jesse McAnally: Five stars. Five stars with a pun. Come on. Give me the five.

[35:36] Andrew DeWolf: That is a five-star.

[35:38] Jesse McAnally: Yes! Okay, okay.

[35:39] Andrew DeWolf: Family Few audience voice. Slit that throat!

[35:45] Jesse McAnally: I mean, it's... Mmm.

[35:49] Andrew DeWolf: It sounds like they liked it, because this is a joke about, like, so, like, they liked it.

[35:53] Jesse McAnally: But these are always so fucking weird.

[35:55] Andrew DeWolf: I'm gonna give it a one. I'm gonna go against my better judgment.

[35:59] Jesse McAnally: That was a five.

[36:00] Andrew DeWolf: Motherfucker.

[36:01] Jesse McAnally: He kills them!

[36:02] Andrew DeWolf: He certainly does.

[36:04] Jesse McAnally: Uh, one. One star. One star.

[36:07] Andrew DeWolf: That is correct. And last one.

[36:09] Jesse McAnally: Okay.

[36:10] Andrew DeWolf: It's on time. Dot, dot, dot.

[36:12] Jesse McAnally: You crazy son of a bitch.

[36:14] Andrew DeWolf: You crazy bastard, you did it again.

[36:17] Jesse McAnally: Five stars. Five stars. Five stars.

[36:20] Andrew DeWolf: That is correct, and that ends previews for today.

[36:23] Jesse McAnally: I think I did okay. I think I missed a couple, but...

[36:25] Andrew DeWolf: That's alright. It's a losing game.

[36:27] Jesse McAnally: I think I hit more than I lost.

[36:30] Andrew DeWolf: I think that's accurate.

[36:32] Jesse McAnally: Alright, you wanna get back to the show?

[36:34] Andrew DeWolf: I do.

[36:35] Jesse McAnally: Alright, let's go into a mid-show.

[36:41] Andrew DeWolf: Hey guys, sorry to interrupt your middle of the show, but we've got a show at you.

[36:49] Jesse McAnally: Today's show is brought to you by the extremely kind donations by our donors over at Patreon.

[36:53] Andrew DeWolf: Patreon's this beautiful place where you can get a lot of cool shit.

[36:57] Jesse McAnally: You get the video episodes.

[36:59] Andrew DeWolf: If you liked last week's episode and you want, like, three extra hours,

[37:03] Jesse McAnally: you can check out the full extended conversation with Brent about Khan.

[37:07] Andrew DeWolf: Also, you get commentaries. You get extra bonus podcasts as well.

[37:13] Jesse McAnally: I think it's this upcoming Saturday, June 17th.

[37:17] Andrew DeWolf: You can join us for a Patreon meetup where you get to hang out with us.

[37:21] Jesse McAnally: We're gonna play some games. We're gonna have a good fuckin' time.

[37:24] Andrew DeWolf: And if you're not there, you're not cool.

[37:27] Jesse McAnally: Because all the cool people are gonna be there.

[37:29] Andrew DeWolf: We might even get a special guest where you can meet one of our people.

[37:33] Jesse McAnally: And you can ask them questions like,

[37:35] Andrew DeWolf: Hey, what's your favorite Sweeney Todd song?

[37:38] Jesse McAnally: And they'll be like, I don't mind answering you.

[37:40] Andrew DeWolf: But Andrew, who's currently supporting us on Patreon?

[37:42] Jesse McAnally: Our current patrons are...

[44:42] Jesse McAnally: Not the story, the show doesn't lie to you. One of the characters in the show lies to another character, and at first you're led to believe that, but really you find out later that they were lying. But there are hints that they were lying throughout. If you've watched the Sideways video on it, they did a really good deep dive. And also he mentions us by name in that video. That's how I met him.

[45:06] Andrew DeWolf: Oh really? There's other hints as well, beyond just the score. Obviously, it's easier to notice on a second viewing, but Mrs. Lovett is so...

[45:14] Jesse McAnally: I don't know you, mister.

[45:17] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, there's that. There's Mrs. Lovett being very not wanting this woman around ever, to a point where it's kind of weird. Why is she so insistent that this person never is around?

[45:31] Jesse McAnally: I agree. And also, she's technically the first person Sweeney Todd meets in London too, which is also a dramatic irony. The first person he sees when off the boat is his wife.

[45:43] Andrew DeWolf: And he doesn't notice.

[45:44] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, and that's on him. I want to talk about some of the songs we didn't do in our first original episode. I still hate "Green Finch and Linnet Bird," I am not talking about that.

[45:53] Andrew DeWolf: I would like to talk a little bit about "Amos and ladies and their sensitivities."

[46:00] Jesse McAnally: Excuse me, my lord. May I request, my lord, permission, my lord, to speak. Forgive me if I suggest, my lord, you're looking less than your best, my lord. There's powder upon your vest, my lord, and stubble upon your cheek. And ladies, my lord, are weak.

[46:19] Andrew DeWolf: Ladies in their sensitivities, my lord, have a fragile sensibility.

[46:37] Jesse McAnally: When a girl's emergent, probably it's urgent you defer to her gentility, my lord.

[46:49] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, boy.

[46:51] Jesse McAnally: What?

[46:53] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, these two songs are so...

[46:56] Jesse McAnally: Strange.

[46:56] Andrew DeWolf: I like "Ladies and Their Sensitivities" a little bit.

[46:59] Jesse McAnally: I like that a lot a bit.

[47:01] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know, it's not even my favorite Beatles song.

[47:03] Jesse McAnally: The lyrics are very funny.

[47:04] Andrew DeWolf: It's not even my favorite Beatles song, though.

[47:06] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, yours is "Hey Jude," right?

[47:09] Andrew DeWolf: No, I like it when he sings the parlor songs, they're very funny.

[47:13] Jesse McAnally: I know, they are very, very funny. But you said that in the original episode.

[47:16] Andrew DeWolf: I did, I did say that.

[47:19] Jesse McAnally: If one bell rings in the Tower of Bray, ding dong, your true love will stay.

[47:27] Andrew DeWolf: Ding dong, one bell today in the Tower of Bray, ding dong.

[47:37] Jesse McAnally: But here I just didn't really appreciate how intricate all those pieces were until I saw this live on Broadway where I'm like, man, this is difficult.

[47:45] Andrew DeWolf: Really, after seeing it, I don't think there's a bad song in this whole thing.

[47:50] Jesse McAnally: No, not at all.

[47:51] Andrew DeWolf: Like, I don't know.

[47:53] Jesse McAnally: It's just it's banger after banger.

[47:56] Andrew DeWolf: And even the worst, like most point...

[47:58] Jesse McAnally: All bangers, no skits.

[47:59] Andrew DeWolf: Even like the worst, most pointless songs are still like, like when the wig maker song, like that, even that's like catchy and like good, like, come on.

[48:09] Jesse McAnally: And that's like...

[48:10] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, because it's because it's "Pretty Woman."

[48:12] Jesse McAnally: It's like one of the few times they like how it's a connective tissue to that.

[48:16] Andrew DeWolf: It's manipulating another man to get what you want.

[48:18] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, it's all good.

[48:20] Andrew DeWolf: It's...

[48:21] Jesse McAnally: There's tawny and there's golden saffron, there's flaxen, then there's blonde.

[48:25] Andrew DeWolf: It's so good.

[48:26] Jesse McAnally: Everything's so good.

[48:28] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, there is one song I don't like.

[48:29] Jesse McAnally: And this is where the dancing went too far, if you want my honest opinion.

[48:33] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, okay.

[48:34] Jesse McAnally: Here we go.

[48:35] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, this is like the moment I was like, okay, this is too much.

[48:38] Jesse McAnally: I don't know what it is, though.

[48:40] Andrew DeWolf: It is the letter sequence.

[48:43] Jesse McAnally: The letter sequence.

[48:44] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, yeah, maybe I don't even disagree.

[48:46] Jesse McAnally: I don't really that that was such a short little thing.

[48:50] Andrew DeWolf: It was such a ridiculous... I never really liked that moment where he's writing the letter and you have the ghosts like narrating his letter.

[48:57] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, I feel like they could do that better.

[48:59] Andrew DeWolf: And then they're just doing like these wild, intricate dance moves to his letter.

[49:04] Jesse McAnally: Also, who does he give the letter to?

[49:06] Andrew DeWolf: In the movie.

[49:07] Jesse McAnally: The movie actually made the smart choice of making him giving him the letter, the trigger that brings Toby to confess to Mrs. Lovett about it. Like that's like one of those smart narrative choices that movie makes.

[49:17] Andrew DeWolf: I agree.

[49:18] Jesse McAnally: Gary just kind of gives it to someone.

[49:20] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, because Toby...

[49:21] Jesse McAnally: Well, it would make sense that Toby is suspicious regardless, because I mean, where the fuck did Pirelli go, right?

[49:28] Andrew DeWolf: But in this, he doesn't really have like a trigger moment where he's like, oh shit, like I need to get Mrs. Lovett out of here because this is really, really sus.

[49:38] Jesse McAnally: You know, he doesn't have that sussy baka moment.

[49:41] Andrew DeWolf: No, no, no.

[49:42] Jesse McAnally: I wish he did because then we'd have some Breaking Bad references.

[49:45] Andrew DeWolf: He doesn't have that moment where he realizes that there's an imposter among us.

[49:49] Jesse McAnally: More like an imposter among us.

[49:51] Andrew DeWolf: No, but he just kind of hands it to nobody.

[49:54] Jesse McAnally: He hands it to a ghost.

[49:55] Andrew DeWolf: He hands it to a ghost and it takes off.

[49:59] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, I really don't like the letter sequence. Never have.

[50:01] Andrew DeWolf: So if we're going to be negative Nellies, I think they took a song that I'm like, eh, about and then made it worse in this revival.

[50:10] Jesse McAnally: This is like an incredibly short song, though, in between.

[50:13] Andrew DeWolf: It is.

[50:14] Jesse McAnally: That's sandwiched in between like 800 bangers, though, so.

[50:19] Andrew DeWolf: You know what I'm disappointed about? I'm a little disappointed we didn't get to hear all 12 bells, you know?

[50:28] Jesse McAnally: Ding dong, ding dong.

[50:31] Andrew DeWolf: How many bells are there?

[50:33] Jesse McAnally: You know, I was thinking about it and doing the math. If he did all 12 bells, the last one would be that his lover doesn't like him, right?

[50:41] Andrew DeWolf: Right.

[50:41] Jesse McAnally: That's horrible.

[50:43] Andrew DeWolf: What a shitty ending for your song.

[50:47] Jesse McAnally: It's a real she loves me not moment.

[50:49] Andrew DeWolf: Really? His mom used to sing that to him when he was just a babe.

[50:54] Jesse McAnally: And that's why no girls like him. I'm surprised that Sondheim and Hugh Wheeler didn't work together more outside of this.

[51:00] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[51:01] Jesse McAnally: Who is Hugh Wheeler? Did this guy do anything else?

[51:03] Andrew DeWolf: I've never heard this guy's name.

[51:05] Jesse McAnally: I don't think he has to.

[51:07] Andrew DeWolf: He seems like he has to be like a well-known playwright.

[51:10] Jesse McAnally: Like, right. The British novel died in 1987.

[51:14] Andrew DeWolf: That's probably why.

[51:16] Jesse McAnally: Yeah. And they did. He did additional material for Pacific Overtures, though. That was the only other collaboration outside of Sweeney Todd.

[51:24] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, and he did A Little Night Music.

[51:26] Jesse McAnally: You know what? Good for him.

[51:27] Andrew DeWolf: Damn died.

[51:28] Jesse McAnally: Eighty-seven.

[51:29] Andrew DeWolf: He was pretty old.

[51:30] Jesse McAnally: I guess he was pretty old. That's interesting that Sondheim was working with him.

[51:36] Andrew DeWolf: I wonder how because they worked together on Pacific Overtures a little bit.

[51:40] Jesse McAnally: He was a research consultant for the film version of Cabaret, not the stage version.

[51:46] Andrew DeWolf: And he won the Tony for Best Book for A Little Night Music and Candide.

[51:51] Jesse McAnally: Good for him. What a career.

[51:52] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. But my God, like why? It would have been nice to see what else they were, because I think the book of this is deceptively great.

[51:59] Jesse McAnally: I don't think it's deceptive. I just feel like it's really good.

[52:04] Andrew DeWolf: I feel like a lot of people tend to overhype the power of Hal Prince and Stephen Sondheim, which their dedication to the craft is very good. And what they brought to this is incredible. The songs are incredible. But if the book was terrible, then I think that this would not be the masterpiece that it is. It would just be kind of like a show that has really good songs and then everything else is kind of...

[52:31] Jesse McAnally: As well, direction can really ruin a show like Parade is one of my favorite shows. I really didn't like what Hal Prince did with that production, the original production, and I thought it was bad.

[52:40] Andrew DeWolf: So direction is important.

[52:42] Jesse McAnally: And the fact that Hal Prince directed that original version as well as he did really, really affected it. So everything that came to this turned into Josh Groban and a bunch of ghosts popping and locking around him.

[52:54] Andrew DeWolf: So thanks, Tommy Kail. I do wish that they had the deafeningly loud whistle.

[53:00] Jesse McAnally: People did whine about not having the whistle.

[53:02] Andrew DeWolf: I wanted the whistle.

[53:04] Jesse McAnally: It's so fucking loud.

[53:12] Andrew DeWolf: The whistle does wake you up.

[53:14] Jesse McAnally: I kind of like it, though. Like it's so fucking piercing and like horrible to hear that like you kind of want it in that in those moments, you know?

[53:25] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, it usually plays every time someone gets their throat slit or dies.

[53:30] Jesse McAnally: Yeah. So yeah, it is missing. And I just feel like a little lump of this play is gone.

[53:37] Andrew DeWolf: I can understand why they would want to change it, though. It's a little bit. I mean, it's harsh.

[53:41] Jesse McAnally: It's really harsh.

[53:43] Andrew DeWolf: So how dare this horror movie musical have scary elements?

[53:49] Jesse McAnally: It's true. Let's think about this Tony season, Andrew. It's actually quite remarkable. We have Josh Groban back on Broadway up against Ben Platt back on Broadway and Christian Borle back on Broadway, and they're all going head to head for best actor again, which hadn't happened since Kevin Spacey hosted the Oscars or the Tonys all the way back in our very first recording session.

[54:10] Andrew DeWolf: Who do you think is going to win?

[54:12] Jesse McAnally: Ben Platt.

[54:13] Andrew DeWolf: You think so?

[54:18] Jesse McAnally: Um, that being said, by the time this episode comes out, the Tony Awards will have happened. So we'll find out in real time whether my bet pays off.

[54:25] Andrew DeWolf: I suppose we will. But what is your overall thoughts on Sweeney Todd, the Demon Barber of Fleet Street and your cheese rating?

[54:31] Jesse McAnally: It's really good. And honestly, the only negative thought I had coming out of it is just why? Why isn't the movie like that? You know, that was my negative thought was just, damn, I wish that we had a movie version of this that was good.

[54:40] Andrew DeWolf: Or well, not good. I actually think the Tim Burton movie is good.

[54:52] Jesse McAnally: It's just not. It's not what I want. You know, it's not what I wanted out of it.

[54:57] Andrew DeWolf: Fucking I don't know how long the revival is playing for, but I'm sure it will still be running when this episode comes out. Go fucking see it.

[55:03] Jesse McAnally: Definitely see it. It's fucking great.

[55:04] Andrew DeWolf: It's a good time.

[55:07] Jesse McAnally: I really don't have very many negative things to say about it. I'm sure that if you compare it to older versions, there's some things that they fumbled the bag on or whatever. But overall, they hit the mark.

[55:18] Andrew DeWolf: It's good.

[55:19] Jesse McAnally: Jeez, a cheese rating. So fun fact, you never gave us cheese rating for this in our first episode. So this is your first and only cheese rating for Sweeney Todd.

[55:25] Andrew DeWolf: OK, OK, well, let's give it a let's give it a fun one then.

[55:34] Jesse McAnally: Jeez, I almost want to just give it like a meat pie with cheese in it. But I don't even know if that's really a thing, you know, that's a unpacked grilled cheese sandwich, a cheesy meatloaf pie.

[55:46] Andrew DeWolf: That is a thing.

[55:47] Jesse McAnally: Got to throw up. This is a recipe I just found. I mean, of course, it has to be made with long pork as well. If you catch my drift, could you got it?

[56:02] Andrew DeWolf: Take for instance, Mrs. Mooney has a pie shop.

[56:06] Jesse McAnally: OK, I do actually have a pitch for a gender bend to Sweeney Todd, where I play Mr. Lovett, and I just want it to be like a real gross looking butcher.

[56:11] Andrew DeWolf: But every word is the same.

[56:18] Jesse McAnally: Like I'm imagining like a real kind of just like a just I wouldn't want you to play it, though. We have to get like a bear looking guy, you know, like a...

[56:25] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, like a big hairy guy that just wears an apron and nothing else under it.

[56:31] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, like an apron, a white T-shirt, and they're both stained with blood.

[56:35] Andrew DeWolf: They're both stained with blood and sweat, like the pit stains like.

[56:44] Jesse McAnally: Yes. Oh, a customer. Wait, what's your hurry? I gave me such a thought you was a ghost. Have a minute. Can you sit such an asset? Never seen without his like big butcher knife.

[56:56] Andrew DeWolf: It's not it's not a pie. It's not even a pie shop. He literally has like a back room with like the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, like hooks with like pigs stuck in them and shit.

[57:07] Jesse McAnally: And I just love the idea that that person's one dream is to live by the sea.

[57:13] Andrew DeWolf: With the fish she's splashing down by the sea.

[57:17] Jesse McAnally: That's like a Tangled song with the I have a dream or whatever.

[57:23] Andrew DeWolf: Yes. With all the criminals.

[57:25] Jesse McAnally: Like, come on, let me produce this.

[57:28] Andrew DeWolf: I would do this.

[57:29] Jesse McAnally: And this is the Sweeney Todd equivalent, just like a proper young woman like anything you say, anything you say.

[57:37] Andrew DeWolf: Now it's a gay couple.

[57:38] Jesse McAnally: I'm your friend too, Mr. Todd, Mr. Todd, you're warm in my hand.

[57:46] Andrew DeWolf: I think people would love this, but it seems a downright shame.

[57:51] Jesse McAnally: It will not happen.

[57:52] Andrew DeWolf: Like, come on.

[57:53] Jesse McAnally: This will never happen.

[57:55] Andrew DeWolf: I'm sorry.

[57:56] Jesse McAnally: It won't. It's too good an idea. No one will let me do it.

[57:59] Andrew DeWolf: That is true. What's your cheese rating?

[58:02] Jesse McAnally: I got to give the same rating I gave the first time, which is mozzarella. It's just so good.

[58:05] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[58:07] Jesse McAnally: I don't disagree with that interpretation. It's just too good for it to be anything else but mozzarella.

[58:12] Andrew DeWolf: That being said, thank you guys for listening. Please follow us on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, at Musicals with Cheese. We're on Twitter at Cheesy Musicals. We're on Patreon at Musicals with Cheese. Instagram at Musicals with Cheese. YouTube page, Musicals with Cheese. Patreon-only podcast, Patreon with Cheese. Email us at musicaltheatrelives@gmail.com. Our keeper of the cheese is Juliet Antonio. The show is edited by Andrew DeWolf. I know we already said our keeper of the cheese is Juliet Antonio, but I usually give them some ASMR, so I'm going to give that to them.

[58:38] Jesse McAnally: Meat pies are delicious. Don't you think?

[58:44] Andrew DeWolf: All right. Thank you to the Broadway Podcast Network for having us on the platform and for not kicking us off for doing whatever the fuck that was. Andrew, is there anything else you have left to say?

[58:53] Andrew DeWolf: I think we've covered it all. Also, we need to pop and lock now, because we are now dancing.

[58:58] Jesse McAnally: Pop it, lock it, polka dot it, country, bye it, hip hop it.

[59:04] Andrew DeWolf: Be to me, friend, whisper, I'll listen.

[59:16] Jesse McAnally: I know, I know, you've been locked out of sight all these years, like me, my friend.

[59:27] Andrew DeWolf: You raise me up so I can climb on mountains.

[59:33] Jesse McAnally: You raise me up.