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[0:05] Jesse McAnally: Hello, I'm Jesse McAnally.

[0:08] Andrew DeWolf: And I'm Andrew DeWolf.

[0:10] Jesse McAnally: And welcome to the 250th episode of Musicals with Cheese!

[0:16] Jesse McAnally: A podcast where I try to get Andrew to like musical theater week by week and show by show.

[0:21] Jesse McAnally: How are you doing today, Andrew?

[0:24] Andrew DeWolf: You know, it's just kind of wild that we made it this far. It's big news, really, if any.

[0:28] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[0:28] Andrew DeWolf: Um, uh, extreme.

[0:30] Andrew DeWolf: Read all about it.

[0:31] Andrew DeWolf: Read all about it. 250 episodes of this dog shit dog water show.

[0:36] Andrew DeWolf: Two white men did a podcast for 250 episodes.

[0:40] Jesse McAnally: Stop the fucking press.

[0:42] Andrew DeWolf: Fucking down. Stop the fucking press.

[0:45] Andrew DeWolf: Uh, call Joe Rogan. Get us on there.

[0:48] Andrew DeWolf: Two white men pr pr continue to be mediocre for the 250th week. Check it out.

[0:54] Andrew DeWolf: It's crazy. We spoil these people. What do we get in return? Just their money. Their praise.

[1:03] Andrew DeWolf: They're the ungrateful ones. Um, bunch of communists expecting more for just watching our show.

[1:13] Andrew DeWolf: In fact, we should upcharge the patrons.

[1:16] Jesse McAnally: Yes. You know what? I think moving forward, we should start charging maybe 10 cents more an episode.

[1:22] Andrew DeWolf: You know what? That's a great idea.

[1:24] Jesse McAnally: This has to be one of the most requested episodes for us to do since day one of starting this podcast. Sincerely, this is likely number one.

[1:33] Andrew DeWolf: Do you like Huey Lewis and the Newsies?

[1:38] Jesse McAnally: Um, in case you haven't picked up what we're throwing down this week, we are talking about Alan Mencken's musical and film Newsies.

[1:47] Jesse McAnally: Cue the music.

[3:07] Jesse McAnally: It's based on the 1992 film Newsies by Bob Sudaker and Nani White. And it premiered on Broadway at the Nederlander Theater for a limited engagement starting in previews March 15th of 2012 and officially on March 29th, 2012. On May 16, 2012, Disney announced that Newsies was an open-ended engagement. The engagement was extended through August 19th, 2012, after the first previews. The musical closed on August 24th, 2014, having played 1,040 performances.

[3:41] Jesse McAnally: Now, this is a special little secret that we're gonna come back to later about all that. Um, but that's slightly important, uh, and I really am glad you said that. But what is the plot of Newsies?

[3:51] Andrew DeWolf: Based on the 1992 Disney film, Newsies is the tale of newsboy Jack Kelly, who dreams of a better life far from the hardship of the streets. When Joseph Pulitzer and William Randolph Hearst raise distribution prices, Jack finds a cause to fight for and rallies his army of newsies to strike.

[4:14] Jesse McAnally: I wish I had an army of newsies. I wish I was on strike. I I I This is a strangely prescient episode considering what's going on, especially in the media landscape right now. You got the writer strike, the pending SAG possible strike. Um, the DGA vote getting a lot of no turns that I don't think they quite expected. Um, it's gonna be an interesting couple of months, to say the least, as far as media goes, but the rallying cry of Newsies still strikes hard, is um my opinion.

[4:50] Andrew DeWolf: That being said.

[5:03] Jesse McAnally: Hates fun, just doesn't like it.

[5:05] Andrew DeWolf: I guess I am. Um, this is for many people wondering why it's taken so long for us to cover Newsies. I just don't love it.

[5:15] Jesse McAnally: This is the closest thing we'll ever get to a musical version of the Communist Manifesto, and Jess hates it.

[5:22] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, yeah, Disney's gonna release that.

[5:25] Jesse McAnally: I they kinda did. It's right here. I so I've been watching they they have a beautiful pro shot of the Newsies musical starring Jeremy Jordan and most of the original cast. Um, I've tried to watch it so many times, I've successfully watched it several times, and I just don't get it. It's it just maybe me. I just don't latch on. I find myself getting bored very easily through it.

[5:50] Jesse McAnally: Um, but for this episode, I finally watched the Kenny Ortega Christian Bale movie, and I kinda dug it. I kind of really I was really into that movie.

[6:01] Andrew DeWolf: You know what? I think one thing to say here is in a lot of times we do these and we're like comparing the musical and the movie, and we either like hate one of them and love the other, or whatever. Uh, this is one time where I actually just like both of them. I just had a lot of fun watching both.

[6:19] Jesse McAnally: And that's fair. I get it. Um, you could just retitle this 17-minute long dance break the musical.

[6:27] Andrew DeWolf: It's extended dance dancing for communism.

[6:31] Jesse McAnally: Okay, stop with the communist Redifesto right over it, and you get the same experience.

[6:36] Andrew DeWolf: Look, I'm not gonna call that good.

[6:39] Jesse McAnally: Okay, sure, yes. I don't understand your hatred of dance.

[6:41] Andrew DeWolf: I don't hate dance.

[6:42] Jesse McAnally: I don't. This is maybe one of the danciest things we've ever covered, and you hate it.

[6:47] Andrew DeWolf: I d I mean. I feel like the argument that you don't hate dance maybe doesn't hold.

[6:54] Jesse McAnally: Is this been an this has been an argument you've been trying to make for five years of doing this show? And I don't see it.

[7:00] Andrew DeWolf: I I mean, every single time we talk about a show where there's a lot of dancing, you say that you don't like it.

[7:05] Jesse McAnally: Like what? Name examples, sir. Cite your sources.

[7:09] Andrew DeWolf: Okay. I can pull up that episode.

[7:19] Jesse McAnally: You didn't like Cats either.

[7:21] Andrew DeWolf: But you know what? I think you just don't like dance, and I think the audience agrees with me.

[7:25] Jesse McAnally: I mean, the audience will agree. It's I'm so grateful that Bree is not here right now to gang up on me and turn this really into a Percy Jackson situation.

[7:34] Andrew DeWolf: She probably would have a list of examples.

[7:36] Jesse McAnally: She probably would. But you know what? She's not here, so I don't have a list of examples ready to go.

[7:43] Andrew DeWolf: I just get I I'm vibes-based, you know.

[7:46] Jesse McAnally: You just show up um to the test every day and be like, I'm gonna feel the answers rather than know them.

[7:53] Andrew DeWolf: And I always get a B plus. It's like crazy.

[7:59] Jesse McAnally: There are so many great talents on display with Newsies, but its development is actually pretty interesting in my opinion. Of the stage show, of course. Uh, the movie I guess we do have to talk a little bit about the movie because that is the origin story.

[8:12] Andrew DeWolf: So the movie genuinely just came first. Like they wrote the music and everything, the story, all of it for the movie, and then they put it on Broadway.

[8:21] Jesse McAnally: Yes. And the movie was a notorious flop. Like, really well known. Was the lowest grossing Disney film ever when it was released. It was critically reviled. People hated it. In fact, Leonard Maltin famously called it like Page Boy the Duck in reference to Howard the Duck as how embarrassing it is for the amount of money spent versus how much it made.

[8:46] Andrew DeWolf: I've not watched it. I I don't think I'm brave enough, sincerely.

[8:49] Jesse McAnally: I haven't watched it either, but it looks I mean it looks pretty good. It looks creative at the very least.

[8:55] Andrew DeWolf: I mean it has duck tits. I've seen the nostalgia critic episode. Like it looks good.

[9:04] Jesse McAnally: Back to the Newsies film. Um, it was very embarrassing. Christian Bale vowed to never do a musical afterwards. In fact, while making it, he was very embarrassed to be in a musical.

[9:14] Andrew DeWolf: So he doesn't like Huey Lewis in the news.

[9:17] Jesse McAnally: I mean, I he if he goes to the Back to the Future musical, he's gonna hear a lot of it.

[9:21] Andrew DeWolf: I'm now I'm thinking, has Christian Bale ever been in a musical again? And they think the answer is just no.

[9:27] Jesse McAnally: No, why would he if Newsies was like the one that's like nope, not doing that ever again.

[9:32] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I mean, and to be fair, he's not very good in in the movie in my.

[9:35] Jesse McAnally: He's not bad though.

[9:36] Andrew DeWolf: He's not terrible. Like, compare him to like Russell Crowe levels, he's not even in the same conversation.

[9:44] Jesse McAnally: No, no, but the Broadway version of his character sings a bit stronger.

[9:49] Andrew DeWolf: You know what? There he was in one other musical outside of this, and I think this is technically a cheat. Would you call Pocahontas a musical?

[9:57] Jesse McAnally: He doesn't sing in it.

[9:59] Andrew DeWolf: He plays a B character, but he is in it, and there are songs that are sung.

[10:03] Jesse McAnally: I I I would say it's at least a musical movie, which is what Newsies is, so Yeah.

[10:09] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. Um who does he play?

[10:12] Jesse McAnally: Like John Smith's little guy, a little friend, a little little baby boy Thomas.

[10:16] Andrew DeWolf: Really?

[10:16] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[10:17] Andrew DeWolf: Okay. I'm I have not watched Pocahontas in a decade.

[10:21] Jesse McAnally: Why would you? There's like a couple songs that are good, but like the whole premise is kind of uh iffy racist. Um, unlike Newsies, which I don't know, like I the production design of that film is beautiful. The like I actually really like the dance sequences in that film. I think Kenny Ortega really knows how to shoot dance numbers and would go on to use that very effectively in his High School Musical trilogy. Um and the Descendants trilogy. Um he is a very talented filmmaker, um, with an eye towards dance.

[10:56] Andrew DeWolf: And it feels energetic. And as bad as the kid actors are and as very obviously uncomfortable they are, I don't think they're that bad either. And they look like children.

[11:06] Jesse McAnally: Some of the better kid actors I've seen in movies. Like, there's a lot of like good movies where you bring the kid actor in and the kid actor like says a line and it's the worst thing you've ever heard in your entire movie.

[11:19] Andrew DeWolf: See Dick Tracy.

[11:20] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, and it's just like, why? You know, like why bother, you know? Whereas in this they they seem okay. And any film with Bill Pullman in it kinda gets like five extra points for me.

[11:35] Andrew DeWolf: I really like Bill Pullman, and I was really sad his character was cut out of the stage musical.

[11:39] Jesse McAnally: Uh who does is he the uh reporter?

[11:41] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, he's the reporter.

[11:42] Jesse McAnally: His character's not cut, they just they just more merge it into like five other characters into this new uh character. Girl power character.

[11:51] Andrew DeWolf: Girl power.

[11:52] Jesse McAnally: Well, uh it felt like they were had a case of the not gays and they really needed to give Jack a proper love interest, or else you gonna think he's gay with all the other boys.

[12:02] Andrew DeWolf: Honestly, one of the worst aspects of the Broadway show in my opinion. I just there just shouldn't be a love interest. I'm just not interested.

[12:08] Jesse McAnally: His love interest is the boys.

[12:10] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, honestly, like can't it just be a movie about the dudes for once?

[12:15] Jesse McAnally: I mean, the movie is basically about the dudes. Like his he is torn between his life in Santa Fe that he dreams of and the family of the boys that he made together.

[12:26] Andrew DeWolf: Now, let's talk about the stage show. So out of all the let's think of Disney as a company for a quick second. They obviously want to make money, first and foremost, among all things.

[12:38] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, so it's interesting that they would make a stage show of one of their biggest flops of all time.

[12:43] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, that is fascinating. And the trail we're about to go down. This was not supposed to have a track to Broadway at all. Like they kind of accidentally got there against Disney's will in a weird way.

[12:56] Jesse McAnally: It's uh twenty years after the m uh movie came out as well.

[13:02] Andrew DeWolf: Yes. Uh kind of like ridiculous. Like this is a flop movie that honestly most of the time would have maybe a cult following, if even that, and would probably just be forgotten about 20 years later.

[13:15] Jesse McAnally: But then Broadway show out of nowhere.

[13:18] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[13:18] Jesse McAnally: And not just Broadway show out of nowhere, successful Broadway show out of nowhere.

[13:24] Andrew DeWolf: Um, so this was Alan Mankin's baby. He got together Harvey Feierstein, who also just uh was doing some magic with uh Kinky Boots previously. Um and he real this was always like his big failed thing. He's like, I really want to make it something I'm proud of. And Disney's like, whatever, you're getting the most minimal budget you possibly can, and all this other stuff. And there's g I'm gonna dive into some conspiracy theories by the end of this. Um so follow me here. Um they tried on La Jolla, pretty good, like really, really good. Um, in fact, they were surprised and f because they didn't really want to do anything. They were just doing this so that because Disney does a lot of things where they put on a show just so they can sell to their theatrical branches for local productions and schools and stuff like that.

Uh like they've done with Pinocchio and my son Pinocchio, a lot of Pinocchio, strangely. They have at least two Pinocchio musicals, neither of them particularly good. But Newsies was like, oh, this is a hit, and Jeremy Jordan was in it, and he played Jack Kelly really good. Jeremy Jordan had a contract to be in Jack uh Bonnie and Clyde, Frank Wildhorn's Bonnie and Clyde that same season, and Disney was just like, We're gonna make sure that flops so that we can get Jeremy Jordan back and out of that contract and get him into Newsies when we opened this on Broadway.

[14:46] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[14:47] Andrew DeWolf: So apparently Disney did a lot of things to undercut Bonnie and Clyde and make sure it had no financial like Disney involved with Bonnie and Clyde, or was this in no.

[14:58] Jesse McAnally: So they were not involved.

[15:00] Andrew DeWolf: So it wasn't them unc undercutting their own product, they were sabotaging someone else's show.

[15:05] Jesse McAnally: Well on purpose. Speaking of undercutting your own product, Disney owns a couple theaters, um in downtown uh New York in Times Square, like the New Amsterdam and things like that. Like the Lion King Theater, they own that theater.

[15:18] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[15:18] Jesse McAnally: Um the Niederlander is not a theater they own. They thought this was just gonna be a a fun limited engagement, like, you know, hey, we did a cool little thing, um, and then get out. But then it kept selling out and maintaining financial revenues. So they were like, well, we're making money, so why close it?

[15:36] Andrew DeWolf: Well it's it was making money even when they closed.

[15:40] Jesse McAnally: How?

[15:41] Andrew DeWolf: Here's how. Disney didn't like was frustrated because they couldn't justify closing it, because you have the Lion King, which is obviously selling out every night because it's the fucking Lion King. They had Aladdin, which is doing surprisingly well as far as they were concerned, and then they had this other theater that they wanted, and I'm pretty sure they shut it down because they wanted Frozen in there. So despite Newsies making all the money in the world. And it was a choice between Hunchback and Frozen. They chose Frozen. And despite making a bunch of money. They shut down Newsies threw Frozen in there. So they shut down a an already successful and pretty good show.

[16:18] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, that is making money.

[16:21] Andrew DeWolf: Still making money. Not because they wanted to put in a better show like Hunchback, but because they wanted to put in some trash.

[16:28] Jesse McAnally: Yes and they could sell to tourists.

[16:31] Andrew DeWolf: Was literally on the Newsies track 'cause they played out of town in La Jolla. It got really good reviews. It was getting some nice buzz, but then they're like Frozen is frozen.

[16:38] Jesse McAnally: Dude, fuck Frozen, dude.

[16:40] Andrew DeWolf: Honestly.

[16:41] Jesse McAnally: Agreed. Has anything good come out of Frozen like ever?

[16:44] Andrew DeWolf: Frozen two. If we count that as good, I mean we were positive about Frozen when we did our Disney Plus cheese episode on it. I think it's okay.

[16:51] Jesse McAnally: Like I'm I'm I'm being uh overly negative here, but like the the way that Disney has treated it, I think is um bizarre for the what it actually is, which is kind of a a mid like mediocre to decent product, you know.

[17:08] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[17:09] Jesse McAnally: I I don't even disagree with that. I think uh Encanto is significantly better than Frozen in nearly every way and same with Moana.

[17:16] Andrew DeWolf: Absolutely.

[17:17] Jesse McAnally: I think like yeah Encanto is like leagues better in my opinion. Moana is I think Moana is like probably a similar level to Frozen, but it's just it's just a more interesting story overall so.

[17:29] Andrew DeWolf: But as far as Newsies go, it had a it it had the anti-Disney track despite being in Disney musical. It won all the awards, um, it got all the attention, and it made tons of money. And then Disney decided, fuck this. We have to put in fucking Frozen.

[17:43] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, because that'll make a gangbuster money, and then it didn't. They should have just kept fucking Newsies in there.

[17:52] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, and it's not like they're against having musicals that run forever. Look at Lion King, look at Lion King's never gonna go away.

[18:00] Jesse McAnally: But it's not even the first time they've done this. As I brought up in our fucking uh Little Mermaid episode. The Beauty and the Beast stage show, the first Broadway show they ever put on Broadway. They shut it down despite making good money to put the Little Mermaid in there, and the Little Mermaid was not good. And they had to close that just so fast.

[18:19] Andrew DeWolf: Straight up, I think Disney's maybe Disney's theater, theatrical team, like maybe not the team, but like the upper management or whatever. Whoever's making the big decisions, just the most baffling fucking choices ever all the time. Just over and over. It like more so than any other part of Disney. It's baffling the choices they make, sincerely.

[18:42] Jesse McAnally: Um and I don't mean for our Newsies episode where I have the hottest of hot takes that go into, you know, theater politics and weird choices, but this is the thing I was most interested in about Newsies. Um, and when we come into talking about it, is this kind of history that's going on in in this kind of money-making schemes? And let's not pretend that Newsies isn't gonna have a life. It's so popular in local theaters. That pro shot they did of it obviously showed that it has a big fan base. But my question is: is the show good or do you just find the leads hot?

[19:17] Andrew DeWolf: Well, I don't find the leads hot, and I think it's pretty good.

[19:20] Jesse McAnally: Why would you say something so controversial yet so brave? What do you like about it?

[19:23] Andrew DeWolf: Tell me like everything you really like about Newsies.

[19:28] Jesse McAnally: I like the focus of of it. Um, where it doesn't have any um like melodrama really. It's just here's the big goal, and the everything is just about that. You know? I I like that. I don't like it when it's like, you know. Well, I mean, it's not that I don't like it. There's shows that I like that do it, but I don't love shows that are like, here's a bunch of tiny problems with like my family life and my my relationships and blah blah blah. Just that melodrama, that interpersonal melodrama between one another.

[20:01] Andrew DeWolf: Just because it's not family by blood?

[20:04] Jesse McAnally: No, no, it's because that's not the focus. You know, it's not like the it's not like one of those shows where that's that's all they have. This has here's our real goal, though. And like the melodrama gets in the way, but really what we're going for is this, and we have to beat the bad guy. I like that kind of shit, and I like how they did it. It's very simple. It's simple black and white, not to make some newspaper opinions, but it's simple.

[20:29] Andrew DeWolf: It yeah, exactly. You have you have the evil guy, there's no there's no shades of gray here, and and you know what? I I think it's great how just blatant they are about like unions good, guy in charge of company bad. Like, that's great.

[20:48] Jesse McAnally: And the thing is the resolution is still like, oh, you get back what you had at the beginning. Good for you.

[20:54] Andrew DeWolf: No, they got a bit more in the well in the movie, in the movie they did get just get back what they had.

[20:59] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, yeah. In the in the Broadway show they get a bit more. Although honestly, these I and I I wanted to tell these people that you shouldn't be buying those newspapers. If you were an employee of this company, they should be giving you the newspapers for free and you just sell them. What the fuck? What is going on here?

[21:16] Andrew DeWolf: Supply and demand, baby. Does a salesperson buy the product that they're going to sell?

[21:21] Jesse McAnally: Uh it's it's functioning more like a uh like a retailer for selling to stores, but children are not stores.

[21:30] Andrew DeWolf: You hear that, ladies and gentlemen, put that on the t-shirt. Children are not stores.

[21:33] Jesse McAnally: Alright, well, I mean, it's a step forward, though. I mean, the 1930s or whenever the fuck this is supposed to take place.

[21:41] Andrew DeWolf: 1850s.

[21:42] Jesse McAnally: I don't even fucking know. Everything was terrible, obviously.

[21:45] Andrew DeWolf: So everything was terrible. Do you know anything about William Randolph Hearst?

[21:49] Jesse McAnally: I don't know that much, but I'm I'm just going to take a wild guess. He's probably a fucking piece of shit.

[21:55] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. Wouldn't you know it? Um, if you've seen Citizen Kane, you know the broad strokes.

[22:01] Jesse McAnally: I haven't. I didn't go to film school.

[22:04] Andrew DeWolf: Citizen Kane is fucking great. Um, not to not to have uh hardcore opinions here. You know, the the harsh takes. The interesting thing about Hearst is Hearst hated the fact that he was being made fun of so much that he buried the movie for like 10-15 years and said that any theater that played it would no longer get ads in his newspapers.

[22:27] Jesse McAnally: Like shit.

[22:28] Andrew DeWolf: That's how you know that's a good movie. Yeah, it's because it pissed off the establishment.

[22:33] Jesse McAnally: Look, I bullying rich people is uh a necessary good. You should do it. Elon Musk should feel like shit every day. Make fun of his tiny penis and his balding.

[22:43] Andrew DeWolf: Make fun of his tiny penis. Find pictures of it and send them to him.

[22:51] Jesse McAnally: Andrew's gonna talk about getting the guillotines out next.

[22:55] Andrew DeWolf: Now is the time to seize the day. Shop!

[22:59] Jesse McAnally: Neighbor to name it. Self-elected King Andrew DeWolf coming in to take over the 1%.

[23:09] Andrew DeWolf: Newsies is pretty sick. What a good show.

[23:14] Jesse McAnally: It's fine. It's just fun. I don't know. Like they're just having fun. And that's that's I like that.

[23:22] Andrew DeWolf: I guess. But I'm so bored for most of its runtime.

[23:26] Jesse McAnally: That's because you hate fun. You want them to be depressed and talking about.

[23:30] Andrew DeWolf: I want stakes. They they just turned 40, and it's so sad, and and we're thinking about a divorce, but we can't do it for the kid, you know? And and oh my goodness, I've been going to therapy and it's just not feeling great, you know.

[23:44] Jesse McAnally: You know what? It's just like, you know, maybe sometimes we just want to watch people dance jazz, okay? You know?

[23:49] Andrew DeWolf: I don't even need that much. I liked in the movie that we got to see the other kids' parents and that they exist and they had dinner. And it's a good like thematic comparison to how Jack lives his life.

[24:00] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, I know that's good. I thought I thought you didn't like the movie either.

[24:04] Andrew DeWolf: No, I like the movie fine. I like them better than the stage show.

[24:07] Jesse McAnally: So you just want them to add a scene where they go to meet the family?

[24:10] Andrew DeWolf: No, there's a lot of little things that make that movie better than the stage show.

[24:14] Jesse McAnally: Okay, name them. Let's go. What do you got?

[24:15] Andrew DeWolf: I think the fact that they look like newsboys puts them at a little bit of a more kind of um weaker stance. Like there is a bigger dichotomy between the big businessmen and these little kids like running them out of town.

[24:30] Jesse McAnally: I know it's I agree with that. That's actually that's good. A big Nickelodeon like kids' rule thing, but yeah.

[24:36] Andrew DeWolf: I think that's a limitation of the Broadway format. I'm not sure you could get that many kids.

[24:41] Jesse McAnally: What the fuck? Have you seen Annie?

[24:43] Andrew DeWolf: I I hope not.

[24:45] Jesse McAnally: Isn't Annie just like one kid in They got an orphanage full of them. They sing hard knock life and do backflips and stuff.

[24:52] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, well you know what that sounds like child labor. I think we should shut Annie down. They should unionize.

[24:56] Jesse McAnally: I think the cinematography is actually very very good in the movie and it's visually it has a kinetic energy that makes the dance sequences much more engaging. And just the scale of things like when the trolley strikers set the the trolleys on fire and all that like it feels very dangerous and feels very scary like and they set up our villain characters pretty early on and make them a threat instead of making them like almost visual like people that are the same age as our leads. Like just having those coppers next to these kids like the little crippled boy and all that like it just feels so much more threatening. It feels like a much more rich and engaging thing. And also they got rid of the stupid love story. Um so it's more about Jack and his boys.

[25:46] Andrew DeWolf: I agree 100% with that the love story just gets in the way and honestly it's kind of just weird. I think also the Broadway show having so in in the movie there's a reporter character played by Bill Coleman. The only person who's willing to report on the strikes and even he is not allowed to basically they replace him with uh Pulzer's daughter yeah who becomes the only reporter that's willing to do it which to me feels like a we need a rich person to save us.

[26:22] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, a little bit. And it also feels strangely since they're pretty nebulous about how old the newsboys are and how old she is, considering that she has a full-time job. There's a little bit of an iffy territory that we're playing with here, considering she falls in love with one of the paper boys.

[26:41] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. That piece does not add anything to the narrative in my opinion. Like they kind of half-ass give Jack Kelly a romantic thing and like the boy's little sister, the other one.

[26:52] Jesse McAnally: Which is also that's like the worst part of the movie, too.

[26:55] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, but it's so quick and so brief and so fast that I'm like, okay, whatever. And she feels very age appropriate. She's like a 15-year-old. This added character in the show, they do give like her own number and she does a little tap dance, because you know, we need a 19-minute tap break for everyone. And it's just like she is kind of pointless.

[27:16] Jesse McAnally: I mean, I still think that the Broadway show does a pretty good job of translating the movie, but I feel like you could have just done it one-to-one, you know.

[27:25] Andrew DeWolf: The movie was already two hours, doesn't it?

[27:27] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[27:27] Andrew DeWolf: But the stage show is still just two hours.

[27:30] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, so it's like they cut stuff and then added other stuff, and it's just why not just keep it the same, but add a little bit. Maybe maybe I maybe it's because the movie was a flop and they felt that they needed to make it work better.

[27:43] Andrew DeWolf: Um, I mean, I could see that. If your work is like heavily criticized and you're like, well, I want to try it, but I want to do it better, you're probably not gonna just do exactly the same thing again, you know.

[27:54] Jesse McAnally: I mean, in some ways you have things like Hunchback, where I think that really worked for their translation, where here I'm just like, I'm bored.

[28:01] Andrew DeWolf: I'm real bored. I'm real really bored of watching this for a bit.

[28:09] Jesse McAnally: I do wanna say that I do like the set design of the stage show a lot. Like, I think it feels big and Broadway scale for something as simple as this. Um that was especially knowing that their budget was low.

[28:22] Andrew DeWolf: Like apparently their budget wasn't very high.

[28:25] Jesse McAnally: They did a great job with it. Um I like the like um scaffolding kind of design they have. That's great.

[28:33] Andrew DeWolf: Um and just the just how simple some of it is where it's like when they're in the uh refuge, they just have the jail like thing that they stand behind and like that's it.

[28:42] Jesse McAnally: That's all you really need. Um I know that I complain about dance breaks. The act one dance break with a final like seize the day number for the end of the first act. That's really cool. You know, if you like dancing, you'll really like this show.

[28:57] Andrew DeWolf: The thing just you know there are people that go to like see ballet and like they just love dance, you know?

[29:02] Jesse McAnally: Like, okay, I actually have a wild thing that I discovered about myself comparing the two Newsies versions. I don't like dance on stage very much. I get a little glazed over. I get really engaged with it when it's in movies though.

[29:17] Andrew DeWolf: Like the Galaxy of dancing in that way.

[29:22] Jesse McAnally: I do. I like it. I like because you can get energy and pattern from cinematography, but editing too, where you can cut into a specific element. Like Bob Fosse was really, really good about using editing to highlight his dances.

[29:36] Andrew DeWolf: Um and like Baz Luhrmann is also very good at this, especially in like Moulin Rouge during the Roxanne scene.

[29:42] Jesse McAnally: Um, but I find myself very underwhelmed by a lot of dance on stage. I feel like this is something you might need to work on.

[29:50] Andrew DeWolf: I might need to go to therapy and figure myself out. Because I mean, dance on stage is a genre of its own. It's not just a musical thing. People do go to see shows that are just dance and nothing else.

[30:03] Jesse McAnally: You are correct.

[30:04] Andrew DeWolf: You are correct. But you you like you there's ten minutes of dance and you have to mention in the episode.

[30:11] Jesse McAnally: We hated it.

[30:12] Andrew DeWolf: I don't hate it. I don't hate all dance.

[30:16] Jesse McAnally: So let's go into breeding. We got a Ben Brantley here.

[30:19] Andrew DeWolf: We do. Um, Andrew, you're gonna have to take a stab at this. What did Ben Brantley have to say about this show?

[30:25] Jesse McAnally: Back in March uh of 2012, which I think was just when the show officially started.

[30:32] Andrew DeWolf: Yep, this was the he wrote this on the official start date. Um Ben Brantley from the New York Times. Since our subject today is newspapers and the people who hawk them, I'm going to ask you to try to imagine a special kind of super tabloid.

[30:46] Jesse McAnally: It would consist of nothing but headlines, all set in extra large type, all goalposted with exclamation points and all proclaiming essentially the same thing. Now imagine that tabloid set to music, and you've got Newsies the Musical, which opened on Thursday night at the Nederlander theater.

[31:06] Andrew DeWolf: Uh this Disney Theatrical Productions adaptation of the 1992 Disney movie musical, itself inspired by the New York newsboy strike of 1899, is made up largely of numbers that feel like a blazing banner headline.

[31:22] Jesse McAnally: And if none of them quite match the—okay, no, and if none of them quite match the immortal panache of the New York Post classic headless body in topless bar, you have to give their creators points for consistency.

[31:36] Andrew DeWolf: I feel like he was framing his entire review around getting that headline in there.

[31:41] Jesse McAnally: I'm trying to figure out if he liked it or not.

[31:43] Andrew DeWolf: Um so far it's not really clear.

[31:46] Jesse McAnally: I actually kind of agree with what he's saying here. Like the it's a very simple show.

[31:54] Andrew DeWolf: And yeah, I mean, I it's it's kind of like uh just here's the big headlines, here's the big moments, and it's just that's yeah, I mean that kind of is true.

[32:03] Jesse McAnally: Um I don't think that that's necessarily a bad thing, but I'm not sure he's saying it's a bad thing. We'll keep reading and find out.

[32:09] Andrew DeWolf: But first up is Newsies, which makes a bold claim to be the ultimate urchin clap crowd pleaser. The 1992 movie was, for the record, a flop, but it has an afterlife as a mini cult favorite among home viewers, and this stage adaptation had a successful run last year at the Paper Mill Playhouse in New Jersey.

[32:28] Jesse McAnally: Okay.

[32:29] Andrew DeWolf: Maybe most of the actors playing the title characters, newsboys who dare to stand up to the corporate power, led by the most charismatic of their tribe, Jack Kelly, look a wee bit old to qualify as bona fide urchins.

[32:43] Jesse McAnally: Hard agree, Ben Brantley.

[32:45] Andrew DeWolf: Mr. Feldman's lyrics are spot on, while the melody reminds us just how charming a composer, Mr. Mencken, who did Beauty and the Beast and The Little Mermaid for Disney can be.

[32:55] Jesse McAnally: It also provides a sorely needed oasis of relief from all that extra extra enthusiasm.

[33:01] Andrew DeWolf: I think he liked it.

[33:03] Jesse McAnally: I still can't fully tell if he liked it or not.

[33:05] Andrew DeWolf: I feel like we're missing the conclusion.

[33:14] Jesse McAnally: Um cry because I don't understand what I just read.

[33:19] Andrew DeWolf: I think it's a good one. Imagine if you were an actor in it.

[33:21] Jesse McAnally: I think he's sort of mixed on it, but probably overall likes it.

[33:26] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[33:26] Jesse McAnally: It doesn't seem like a glowing review, but it doesn't seem bad.

[33:31] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[33:31] Jesse McAnally: Um which is fine. I think that that's totally fair. This is a simple show.

[33:37] Andrew DeWolf: But he tends to get the knives out when he really doesn't like something from Disney.

[33:41] Jesse McAnally: Um, and we've seen that.

[33:42] Andrew DeWolf: And the knives do not seem to be out.

[33:43] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, so I think he mostly enjoyed it.

[33:46] Andrew DeWolf: Mm-hmm.

[33:46] Jesse McAnally: Um, so does that mean you disagree with Ben Brantley?

[33:49] Andrew DeWolf: I guess I do.

[33:50] Jesse McAnally: I mean, I agree that the boys look too old.

[33:53] Andrew DeWolf: You agree with his nitpick, but that's about it.

[33:56] Jesse McAnally: The nitpick gets harder and harder for me. Um I'd love to see like a proper, like, you know, boys' production, like school production of this.

[34:04] Andrew DeWolf: I think it would be very interesting.

[34:05] Jesse McAnally: Um it'd probably be worse than you're imagining.

[34:08] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, definitely.

[34:09] Jesse McAnally: Like, I'm not claiming that the singing in the movie was anything to write home about, but it's charming because it's kids.

[34:16] Andrew DeWolf: I'm kind of okay with it not being kids.

[34:18] Jesse McAnally: I'm gonna be straight. Like, kids are kind of bad at doing things a lot of times.

[34:25] Andrew DeWolf: And maybe I'm okay with just pretending that adults are children so that the singing and dancing doesn't suck ass.

[34:33] Jesse McAnally: I do want to give credit where it's due in my own personal anecdotal experience. So you know I've worked on a film for the last few months, um, four five, six months of my life.

[34:44] Andrew DeWolf: Uh-huh.

[34:45] Jesse McAnally: And I wrote it so that there wouldn't be any minors except for one for one day. And I've dealt with the gamut of actors.

[34:51] Andrew DeWolf: That child was the most professional, most talented actor, and gave me everything I needed on the first few takes.

[34:58] Jesse McAnally: Um, and I think that's how most kid actors are.

[35:01] Andrew DeWolf: So I just wanted to say that kids are better than you'd give them credit for.

[35:06] Jesse McAnally: That may be true, but also kids are mostly bad at things.

[35:11] Andrew DeWolf: Look at Jake Lloyd in the Star Wars.

[35:13] Jesse McAnally: That's a bad example.

[35:14] Andrew DeWolf: Well, not really.

[35:15] Jesse McAnally: He has no idea what to do with his arms in any scene.

[35:18] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I mean, okay.

[35:20] Jesse McAnally: That's an interesting one, because yes, he's bad, but the fanbase was so mean to him.

[35:24] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, I'm not defending the fan base, but that does not mean he was good.

[35:28] Jesse McAnally: He was bad, but also, guys, stop. He's like a fucking kid. Like, Jesus Christ. Blame the people who casted him.

[35:36] Andrew DeWolf: Don't blame him.

[35:37] Jesse McAnally: Okay, there's footage of—have you ever watched the uh the Phantom Menace like full-length documentary of how they made it?

[35:46] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, A, it is fascinating.

[35:49] Jesse McAnally: It's where you get every one of those Lucas tidbits. Like, it's like poetry and rhymes. Every bit of that.

[35:54] Andrew DeWolf: But you see the moment where they cast Jake Lloyd and they show the three other boys that were up against him.

[36:00] Jesse McAnally: And you had one kid, and it's down to Jake Lloyd and this other kid, and they show that other kid's audition, and it's like, no, that kid's good.

[36:08] Andrew DeWolf: Like that kid could have done this.

[36:11] Jesse McAnally: And George Lucas literally is like, I can't pick, you pick, and just throws it on another guy.

[36:18] Andrew DeWolf: And the other guy's like, I'm thinking Jake.

[36:22] Jesse McAnally: And then they just cut to Jake Lloyd signing the contract.

[36:26] Andrew DeWolf: That I think is the funniest thing on the planet.

[36:29] Jesse McAnally: Are you fucking serious?

[36:31] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[36:31] Jesse McAnally: And George Lucas is like the fucking worst.

[36:35] Andrew DeWolf: Holy shit.

[36:35] Jesse McAnally: And they did an entire documentary about what that other kid's life was like.

[36:40] Andrew DeWolf: About how he's like, I dodged a bullet there, didn't I?

[36:43] Jesse McAnally: Shit.

[36:44] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, apparently, because I mean Jake Lloyd did not uh—he's in prison now have a good time.

[36:49] Jesse McAnally: Is he really?

[36:50] Andrew DeWolf: Oh man.

[36:51] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, he has borderline personality disorder and drove a car down the wrong side of a road for a very long time, enough to get a very long time in prison.

[37:00] Andrew DeWolf: So I hope he's getting the help that he needs.

[37:03] Jesse McAnally: You know what? I honestly I feel like it's probably caused by the shit that he had to get from the fucking fans.

[37:11] Andrew DeWolf: I mean they just straight up bullied that guy for years as a child.

[37:18] Jesse McAnally: Um, and even the kid that didn't get cast as Anakin, but was almost cast as Anakin got it too.

[37:24] Andrew DeWolf: He didn't even do anything.

[37:25] Jesse McAnally: Exactly.

[37:27] Andrew DeWolf: That's all the movie.

[37:31] Jesse McAnally: The thing is that documentary came out was like one of the first like documentaries on a DVD.

[37:36] Andrew DeWolf: Um, and you gotta see him audition and lose.

[37:39] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, and so why would you bully him?

[37:41] Andrew DeWolf: At least with Jake Lloyd, you can be like, he ruined the movie.

[37:45] Jesse McAnally: Which I mean, it's bullshit, obviously, and like, you know, I don't agree with that.

[37:50] Andrew DeWolf: I think the script ruined the movie.

[37:52] Jesse McAnally: There is a version of that movie with Jake Lloyd in it that could have worked really well, in my opinion.

[37:58] Andrew DeWolf: You're probably right.

[37:59] Jesse McAnally: I mean, the script was it's fucking dog shit.

[38:02] Andrew DeWolf: Are we really gonna ignore the Jar Jar in the room?

[38:05] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, it's like you're gonna say you're gonna tell me Jake Lloyd ruined the movie when Jar Jar is right there.

[38:11] Andrew DeWolf: Or or quite Qui-Gon Jinn.

[38:14] Jesse McAnally: Or how about the fact that it's just boring as shit?

[38:16] Andrew DeWolf: Like they just racist. They go to the sand planet and then they stay there for like a fucking hour and a half, and you're just like, and then you're gonna be a bit more.

[38:26] Jesse McAnally: It's not though.

[38:28] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, whatever. The Pod Race might be one of the most boring sequences ever put to film.

[38:32] Jesse McAnally: I'm sick of people defending it.

[38:34] Andrew DeWolf: There's no stakes whatsoever.

[38:36] Jesse McAnally: People defend it because there was like a couple video games that came out that were pretty decent based on the pod race.

[38:41] Andrew DeWolf: But like the movie scene is boring as shit.

[38:46] Jesse McAnally: I will say, if I'm gonna be any positive about the pod race, it does look good despite being 30 years out.

[38:52] Andrew DeWolf: Like it still looks better than a lot of blockbusters today, just visually alone.

[38:57] Jesse McAnally: Well, I think blockbusters today are just starting to look worse and worse.

[39:00] Andrew DeWolf: They do, but the Phantom Menace looks really good, all things considered, for a film almost 30 years old.

[39:07] Jesse McAnally: I think back then, and people talk about like 90s CGI and like Jurassic Park looks so good still. How did they do it?

[39:14] Andrew DeWolf: Right.

[39:15] Jesse McAnally: And it's just like, I think that back then they actually had to think about what they can do and the limitations and blah blah blah. Whereas now you just make the Flash and you're like, we can have Batman jump 50 billion feet in the air and he just falls, and we can just do it.

[39:29] Andrew DeWolf: You just put him on the green screen, and then like it looks like ass.

[39:33] Jesse McAnally: It just looks like complete shit. It just is remarkable how garbage green or films look today. Um, you know the only thing that tends to look good anymore? Animated films. I just saw Spider-Verse last night. I saw Spider-Verse on Tuesday, it's so fucking good. It looks incredible. Even the most annoying audience in the world could not ruin me the experience of watching Spider-Verse. A bitch brought a fucking laptop and was Tippity typing away the entire time in the movie. And it still didn't ruin it. I want to go see it again. It's so fucking good.

[40:06] Andrew DeWolf: I do too. Um straight up, and I've seen the original one like four times as well. It's like, it's just so fucking good.

[40:13] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, but your biggest complaint with this new one has to be that there's no kingpin.

[40:18] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I mean, that is true, and I really do hope he comes back in the next one. Uh but fuck, animation just looks amazing at times, whereas live action has just been on a full decline and looks worse and worse and worse.

[40:31] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, like Puss and Boots looks incredible.

[40:34] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, Puss and Boots is great. Not as good as Into the Spider-Verse or whatever.

[40:37] Jesse McAnally: No, but it's a different kind of really fucking good. Really good. The bad guys looked very good. And then Disney is kind of stuck in this track of just the Frozen look.

[40:46] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[40:47] Jesse McAnally: Which honestly, though, I still would rather watch that than like modern Marvel or DC movies, god forbid.

[40:54] Andrew DeWolf: God, The Flash looks so bad.

[40:56] Jesse McAnally: It looks so bad. So fun fact, I got free tickets to see The Flash, and then I still didn't go.

[41:04] Andrew DeWolf: I don't even blame you. Like, why would you go? Like, honestly, it's like I that's that's like three hours I could do something else with.

[41:12] Jesse McAnally: It was literally just like I would rather do nothing than this. I could be at home playing video games and have a better thing. Every bit of information I hear about it sounds terrible. I'm just like, uh, why the fuck did Michael Keaton agree to be in this?

[41:30] Andrew DeWolf: Money.

[41:31] Jesse McAnally: It is obviously it is. And they have him say his, uh, "You wanna get nuts?" quote. That's not his catchphrase.

[41:40] Andrew DeWolf: He says that to the Joker, right?

[41:42] Jesse McAnally: He says that to the Joker because the Joker is nuts. Like, that's the thing. In the context of the movie, it doesn't even make sense. Like we reference it as a meme because it's a weird thing that happened.

[41:56] Andrew DeWolf: "Let's get nuts." It's like the Blade quote. Uh, can we get Blade to come back? And he just says, "Some motherfuckers are always trying to ice skate uphill."

[42:00] Jesse McAnally: Some motherfuckers are always trying to ice skate uphill. You know what? We gotta bring Storm back and have her say, "You know what happens to a toad when it's electrocuted?"

[42:22] Andrew DeWolf: The same thing that happens to everything else.

[42:25] Jesse McAnally: Do you know what happens to a toad when it's struck by lightning?

[42:34] Andrew DeWolf: The same thing that happens to everything else. Just get like the worst line. Just to the movie with all three of them, and they just say those lines, and then, oh, we gotta bring back George Clooney, Batman to say, "This is why Superman works alone."

[42:50] Jesse McAnally: A bat credit card. Never leave the cave without it.

[42:56] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, okay. On that show, how about we go into a mid-show and then we talk about some of these songs?

[43:08] Jesse McAnally: Today's show is brought to you by the extremely kind donations by our donors over at Patreon. Go to Patreon, we get commentary stuff, we got extra podcast episodes, you know, just all sorts of shit over there. Just check it out. And also just help support us if you want to.

[43:21] Andrew DeWolf: Um, our current patrons are Melissa Goldman, Danielle Renics, Justice Stampede, Ewan Cassidy, Monica Thoreau, Brent Black, Lithanial Stacey Coombe, Joseph Evans Green, Mary Lou Choquette, John Van Alz, Russ Walker, Musical Hell, Emily Gracie, Kyle Summers, Janae C, Scootin' the Technical Dreamcoat. Liz Lim, nothing is certain except Beth and Taxes, Thesbian, Jessica T, Mitchell Young, Chai Teacup, Katie McDonough, Chris Marcote, Kiji Marie Anastasio, Leela, RJ Nariga, Bjorn Hermans, Toriana Frazier, Sammy the Adequate Amount, Jacobson, Layana Morton, Kayleigh Blazier, Cinemageddon Reviews, Villainous Miss, Sophina L. The Omega Geek, Paige Pearson, Matty Wargle, Eliza Erdman, Anna Luscatova, Sarah Den Blaker, Evan Ball, Zachary Torres, Rora Morasso, Mara Forloin, Captain Rod Tastic, Lisa L, Nobody, Nick Rotten, Puffy Boy, Summer, Julia Hardy, Jay Cusia, and Caitlin Bridgman.

[44:23] Jesse McAnally: These all give us a little financial support that helps to keep the lights on here, Musical Cheese. And I do want to say, um, we did get a new patron while recording this. Um and I want to add. Well, let's just add them to the list.

[44:33] Andrew DeWolf: And Sydney Hicks.

[44:34] Jesse McAnally: Alright, thank you. Um, they give us support that helps us keep the lights on here, Musical Cheese. Sometimes literally. Um, please come out and support us. Keep this show going. Um, we are gonna be a little bit more consistent with stuff we get out there soon. Um but yeah, let's get back to the show.

[44:58] Andrew DeWolf: Alright, songs. We got quite a few songs to talk about.

[45:02] Jesse McAnally: We do. Um these songs are quite long, and I mean a lot of it is because almost every song does have a dance break.

[45:08] Andrew DeWolf: It does. Not all, but a lot of them do.

[45:10] Jesse McAnally: I'd say more than don't. It's probably about 60%.

[45:15] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, which is more than don't. I like the opening number "Carrying the Banner."

[45:21] Jesse McAnally: I smell money, yo smell foul, myth is going to last night. For the buck on my life, carry in the banner to it all. A mighty fine life. Carrying the banner, yeah.

[46:01] Andrew DeWolf: That that is a good one. I like it in both versions. Um, I just like that, hey, that's my cigar is like the first lyrics.

[46:09] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, don't worry, you can steal another one. Um in in the Broadway show, they sing "Santa Fe" before it though, don't they?

[46:16] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, they do. Which I think personally is a strange choice that I don't really agree with. I don't love it. Um I know we're trying to set up our lead characters early and their goals very clearly, but you know, I love the reveal of Christian Bale in the movie where we set up all these other kids, and then the one that won't get up is Christian Bale.

[46:36] Jesse McAnally: Like that really should be. And he's sets the best one at it.

[46:38] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. Carrying the banner, though, that is a very good number. I love all the uh all the kids get their own little lines and interactions, uh, and it sets up everybody pretty well.

[46:50] Jesse McAnally: They set it up and they also set up the language for the movie, or for both the movie and the show, where it's like, we're gonna use some weird terminology and we're gonna set them up and we're gonna talk all weird and funky. We're all gonna talk like we're in West Side Story, the Spielberg one.

[47:03] Andrew DeWolf: The only thing I fucking hate is "Papes."

[47:06] Jesse McAnally: Um I understand why they s would say it that way, but it just bothers me, and they say it way too much.

[47:14] Andrew DeWolf: I guess.

[47:15] Jesse McAnally: I mean that is a nitpick, though.

[47:19] Andrew DeWolf: It is a nitpick.

[47:20] Jesse McAnally: I'm not not uh not saying that's a real critique. The thing is, a lot of the act one is just kind of like, you know, it's wheel spinning to get to the point.

[47:30] Andrew DeWolf: Alright.

[47:30] Jesse McAnally: The world will know. When the circulation bell starts ringing, will we hear it?

[47:36] Andrew DeWolf: No.

[47:37] Jesse McAnally: What if the lances come out swinging? Will we hear it?

[47:41] Andrew DeWolf: No!

[47:42] Jesse McAnally: When you got a hundred voices singing, who can hear a lousy result love? And the world will know that this ain't no game. That we got a ton of rotting proof and perfect day.

[48:00] Andrew DeWolf: So they came downward.

[48:02] Jesse McAnally: Well it ain't what it means. Now they gonna see what stock the press is really means. And the old will be.

[48:13] Andrew DeWolf: I go back to sleep.

[48:15] Jesse McAnally: And we got no choice but to see it through when we found a boy and I lost my show!

[48:21] Andrew DeWolf: And the world will I feel like this is the first one that's like a bang banger, you know?

[48:26] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, that is the first one where it's like you play this while you're working out.

[48:29] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, this is a good one.

[48:31] Jesse McAnally: The world will know. I love the um it's not is it maybe it is a pun? I don't know if what it's called, but where it's like the world is the newspaper, the world, but also it's kind of more just the world in general as well.

[48:44] Andrew DeWolf: Um it's a synecdoche, but also kind of real.

[48:49] Jesse McAnally: Like, I get what you mean. It's wordplay, definitely. Yeah, it's like it's literal but not literal. It's fun. I I like that. Um just just a really fun song. Uh a little dark, a little bit more like, you know, edgy. But it gets you going, you know. You're with them.

[49:06] Andrew DeWolf: You're with them.

[49:09] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, you are one of the newsies in that moment. And the world will know. Um, that being said, I do want to talk a little bit about "Seize the Day," which is another fucking banger.

[49:23] Andrew DeWolf: Open the gates and seize the day. Don't be afraid and don't delay. Nothing can break us. No one can make us give a right somewhere.

[49:50] Jesse McAnally: Yeah. Now is the time to seize the day. Now is the time to seize the day. Send another call and join the break. Send up the call and join the break. Bronx will be righted if we're united. Let us seize the day.

[50:11] Andrew DeWolf: They're kind of like back to back in a way.

[50:13] Jesse McAnally: They are, and almost feel like they cancel each other out, is the problem.

[50:17] Andrew DeWolf: Like really what makes you say that?

[50:20] Jesse McAnally: Like they have very similar energies, very similar builds, and very similar goals within the story.

[50:26] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, I thought you were trying to say that they were like opposites of each other. I was like, if anything, I think they're kind of redundant.

[50:30] Jesse McAnally: Yes. And I think you're actually kind of agreeing with that, so it's like maybe we should have picked one or the other, but the thing is they both fuck, so why cut one?

[50:42] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, but that's I again this is like this is such a simple and enjoyable show to just like chill and watch, because you don't have to think at all.

[50:52] Jesse McAnally: There's two songs back to back about the same exact thing. They're both great songs, and you don't have to think about it.

[50:59] Andrew DeWolf: I will say "Seize the Day" probably has a little bit more of a like upbeat where "The World Will Know" is more like triumphant, where "Seize the Day" feels more like a classic Disney song.

[51:09] Jesse McAnally: Like, now is the time to seize the day. You can hear like the pop band doing a cover of that.

[51:15] Andrew DeWolf: I I think they're both great though. And it again, they're kind of redundant, but it sort of just fits the tone of the show with just how simplistic a lot of the themes are. Where it's just like, yeah, it's about their striking, and both of these songs are about the fact that they're striking.

[51:30] Jesse McAnally: And wanna know my favorite part of it though?

[51:32] Andrew DeWolf: What's that?

[51:33] Jesse McAnally: When the singing newsies leave, so the dancing newsies can come out and dance, and none of the leads are part of the dancing newsies.

[51:41] Andrew DeWolf: We get the newsy arguments. You can't dance that well and sing at the same time.

[51:46] Jesse McAnally: Come on. I I you think you want all these all these people to be triple threats? It's like in The Phantom of the Opera where they put Christine in the back row because she's hired for her singing and can't do the ballet pieces for the beginning part.

[52:02] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, I want to talk about "Santa Fe" a little bit.

[52:06] Jesse McAnally: Let me go far away. Somewhere they won't never find me, and tomorrow won't remind me of today.

[52:20] Andrew DeWolf: And the city's find me sleeping, and the moon looks old and gray.

[52:27] Jesse McAnally: I get on a train that's bound for Santa. What is up with Broadway specifically or New York-based musicals? Really wanting characters to go to Santa Fe. You got this. I want to see an arrangement or a mashup between this and "Open Up a Restaurant in Santa Fe" from Rent and mix them together.

[52:51] Andrew DeWolf: You know, it and they say it even, but what does Santa Fe have other than like tarantulas and scorpions?

[52:59] Jesse McAnally: It has the word Santa in it.

[53:01] Andrew DeWolf: I you understand what they're going for, but this song just feels awkward where it's like, why is this character's goal to go to fucking Santa Fe? You know?

[53:10] Jesse McAnally: Okay, I'm starting to see, I'm connecting dots in my head. So, okay, okay, go ahead. We've got this musical directed by Kenny Ortega, takes place in New York, they dream about Santa Fe, right?

[53:23] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[53:24] Jesse McAnally: Do you remember what, uh, where the high school musical films take place in?

[53:28] Andrew DeWolf: Is it fucking Santa Fe?

[53:30] Jesse McAnally: It is not New Mexico, Albuquerque.

[53:32] Andrew DeWolf: It is New Mexico.

[53:33] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, Albuquerque.

[53:35] Andrew DeWolf: That's it's a breaking bad.

[53:36] Jesse McAnally: That's why we were.

[53:38] Andrew DeWolf: That's not why we were talking about breaking bad.

[53:40] Jesse McAnally: That would have made sense.

[53:43] Andrew DeWolf: But like maybe just Kenny Ortega romanticizes Albuquerque or New Mexico in general. And there's also another Broadway sound called New Mexico. There's like some they really, really are like, let's go to Santa Fe, let's go to New Mexico. Is that just where New Yorkers wish they were?

[54:00] Jesse McAnally: I think that they maybe think that it's something it's not. As far as I've heard, New Mexico is not great. Like a lot of those cities are just like suburbs built with around dirt and just from what I've seen in Breaking Bad, it looks depressing.

[54:16] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, it looks horrible.

[54:18] Jesse McAnally: Like, even some of their houses that look sort of nice, it's like you look in the background and it's just this fucking wasteland. It's like, why would you want to live here? But you know the song is pretty good.

[54:30] Andrew DeWolf: The song's the song is fine. Uh, King of New York, another banger in my.

[54:34] Jesse McAnally: Another banger, great act one or act two opener. That's what's so great about New York.

[54:43] Andrew DeWolf: A pair of new shoes with matching laces. A permanent box at sheep said races. A porcelain tub with boiling water. A Saturday night with the mayor's daughter. Look at me. I'm the king of New York. Suddenly, I'm respectable stammer right at your lousy witch stature. Nob him with all the muckety mucks. I'm blowing my go and go and deluxe. Then dare I be. Ain't I pretty it's my city. I'm the king of New York.

[55:17] Jesse McAnally: A lot of dancing. Doesn't add much, but still fun. Here's the problem. In Act Two, also not much happening. We get to a point where it's mostly uh reprise, and I think King of New York is the last one that I even care to discuss. I think it's just there's not really much else here. I mean, I like the music is good. Like, I mean, it's Alan Mencken.

[55:41] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, like, uh, very talented composer. Uh, none of these songs are bad.

[55:46] Jesse McAnally: No.

[55:47] Andrew DeWolf: But it's just this show in particular has a couple very good songs, and they kind of repeat themselves a little bit and go on for a while. Well, that being said, why don't we move on to our Alan Mencken ranking? Um, because we did pick this up um last time we covered uh Sister Act, and you ranked all of them. Um remind everyone what your ranking is right now, because you go with the A B C D tier list.

[56:13] Jesse McAnally: Yes, so we have A B C D. Um A is the best, D is the worst. These are ranked within themselves. So the only thing that matters is the shows on the list. This isn't like A tier means it's equally good to the best show ever made or something like that. It's just the shows on the list. Although I will say this particular list is fucking stacked. Um he's done a lot of great work.

[56:38] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, um so even the stuff that's in like C tier here is actually not that bad. Uh, uh so A, A tier I put in uh we have Little Shop of Horrors, um Beauty and the Beast, and Hunchback, which fucking phenomenal shit. Uh B, we have uh Mr. Is it Mr. Rosewater? I'd be like, God bless you, Mr. Rosewater.

[56:56] Jesse McAnally: God bless you, Mr. Rosewater, which is a pretty fun one. Uh The Little Mermaid Entangled, which honestly, all three of those also fucking very good. Uh in C tier, uh Gallivant, Christmas Carol, and Sister Act. None of those are really that bad. It's just uh I don't think they stack up quite as well to the other ones above it. Um D tier is probably the only one that I think is like not that good, and that's home on the range.

[57:21] Andrew DeWolf: Um you are still pretty defender, like not that bad.

[57:25] Jesse McAnally: It's really not that bad. Not as bad as everyone makes it sound like it is. Listen to our episode. They talk about it like it's the worst thing that Disney has ever made in the fucking existence. It's just like this is like a mediocre movie. It's and some of the songs are actually pretty fun.

[57:39] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know. But now the question where does newsies go? And also, am I ranking the Broadway show or the movie, or just kind of a general mix of both?

[57:55] Jesse McAnally: Like I feel like, yeah, yeah, if like if they're about the same for you, put them together. If they're different, put them where they be.

[58:01] Andrew DeWolf: I think that they're like there's some differences, but I think I enjoyed them both about the same. So I'm gonna probably just rank them one time here. I gotta go with with B tier, and it's probably gonna be a little bit above Little Mermaid. I'm gonna put newsies right in the B tier, which again, perfectly respectable on this list. Uh this is not saying it's bad in any way. Um personally, I actually really enjoyed both the movie and the show. Uh, so I'm gonna put it in uh in B tier.

[58:31] Jesse McAnally: All right. Um what's your thoughts, Jess?

[58:33] Andrew DeWolf: I struggle with newsies. I don't like it.

[58:35] Jesse McAnally: I I know. Would you put this below Home on the Range?

[58:39] Andrew DeWolf: I wouldn't put it below Home on the Range.

[58:41] Jesse McAnally: Um would you put it below Sister Act?

[58:44] Andrew DeWolf: I wouldn't put it below Sister Act.

[58:45] Jesse McAnally: See, that's where I I I still am getting like I struggle. I struggle more than I dislike. I think what's the highest one in C tier?

[58:53] Andrew DeWolf: I think I put Gallivant at the top of C.

[58:56] Jesse McAnally: I put it below Gallivant. What's after Gallivant?

[58:58] Andrew DeWolf: Christmas Carol?

[59:00] Jesse McAnally: What's after Christmas Carol?

[59:01] Andrew DeWolf: Sister Act.

[59:03] Jesse McAnally: I put it between Christmas Carol and Sister Act.

[59:04] Andrew DeWolf: You are a wild one. That's where the stage show goes. Um I would put the movie above Gallivant. Would it make it into B tier or does it stay in C?

[59:13] Jesse McAnally: I think it would make it into B, like right below Tiny.

[59:15] Andrew DeWolf: Okay.

[59:16] Jesse McAnally: I think that that's that makes sense. Because I like the movie a lot more than I expected to. Um, I felt like it was it bothers me that a film that competent, that well made, that obviously like love and was put into the stitches of it, flopped, and got such a bad critical reaction. And then half made films like The Flash and The Suicide Squad comes out nowadays and it's just like yes, we're gonna eat up this slop.

[59:42] Andrew DeWolf: I just I feel like it's just a different time.

[59:45] Jesse McAnally: I think times are are sort of changing though. I feel like people are starting to look for actual good movies again. I'm seeing that more too. Like with the success of Everything Everywhere All Once and Puss in Boots 2 and John, into the Spider-Verse, all those doing well, but things like The Flash looks like it's gonna flop.

[1:00:07] Andrew DeWolf: And Guardians 3, obviously.

[1:00:08] Jesse McAnally: Guardians 3 was good. Like in Guardians 3 is a Marvel movie, but it's just like this is a movie that they put you have to put a little more effort in, like just a little bit more effort, not even like a ton more. Like, just put some love. Just show me that you gave a shit beyond just how much uh of our how many of our properties can we put into this movie.

[1:00:28] Andrew DeWolf: I cannot wait for my film to come out and everyone to throw my same criticisms back at the shit I make and be like, eat your words, you stupid piece of shit.

[1:00:37] Jesse McAnally: No one is going to do that, Jess. The worst case scenario for your movie is no one will watch it.

[1:00:42] Andrew DeWolf: That I'm like, yeah, that's that's the worst case scenario is no one watches it.

[1:00:46] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, it's fair. You know what? You will. And look, you know, I released an album and no one listened to it.

[1:00:51] Andrew DeWolf: I listened to it.

[1:00:52] Jesse McAnally: With you and 30 people.

[1:00:54] Andrew DeWolf: I was one of those 30 people, and I love that album.

[1:00:58] Jesse McAnally: So what are our overall thoughts and our cheese ratings?

[1:01:01] Andrew DeWolf: That is a good question. Um, I don't like newsies. I like the movie better. That doesn't mean I love the movie. Um I don't know if this was 250 episodes worthy, um, but I know that people have been asking for this. There's one person in our reviews that keeps saying, When are you covering newsies? They said they'd do it soon, but then it's two years later. When are you guys doing newsies?

[1:01:22] Jesse McAnally: So we did it. Hope it didn't disappoint. This is one of the rare episodes where I'm more positive than you, so I think everyone will like it.

[1:01:31] Andrew DeWolf: Maybe.

[1:01:31] Jesse McAnally: Maybe this will live up to the 250th episode. Um wait till 300, guys. It'll be a banger. I have no idea what it would be.

[1:01:39] Andrew DeWolf: We're gonna cover 300, the musical by Zack Snyder.

[1:01:44] Jesse McAnally: No shit. I think Zack Snyder would direct a good musical.

[1:01:47] Andrew DeWolf: He might, but it would probably be about like a libertarian strongman or some shit.

[1:01:52] Jesse McAnally: Oh, it would be. It would be like the Incredibles musical or something.

[1:01:54] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, that'd be actually really good though. Hang on, I'm calling Zach.

[1:01:58] Jesse McAnally: Um, my I'm giving two cheese ratings here. Um I'm gonna give um the movie Parmesan, and I am going to be giving the stage show Age Parmesan, which is one of the rare cheese that tastes worse age, but it still has like all the nutritional value, but you just is worse.

[1:02:17] Andrew DeWolf: That's I mean, it's good for your opinion of it.

[1:02:19] Jesse McAnally: My thoughts uh is I actually think it's a ton of fun. I really enjoyed watching both. Um I can never look at Christian Bale and not see Patrick Bateman, but that's okay.

[1:02:30] Andrew DeWolf: Well, Patrick Batman.

[1:02:32] Jesse McAnally: I can kind of see both, but honestly, Bateman is a more iconic character for me. I I don't really I don't necessarily think of Christian Bale as Batman. I think of him as Patrick Bateman.

[1:02:43] Andrew DeWolf: Who do you think of as Batman when you think Batman actor first actually comes into your mind?

[1:02:48] Jesse McAnally: Ben Affleck?

[1:02:49] Andrew DeWolf: No, definitely not. I've never even seen one of those. Um honestly, I probably think of George Clooney.

[1:02:56] Jesse McAnally: Because of the memes.

[1:02:58] Andrew DeWolf: That's fair. I I knew there'd be a good reason. I was just waiting, edge of the seat. Uh, and I've I've seen Batman and Robin like two times. It's fucking funny as hell.

[1:03:07] Jesse McAnally: Batman Robin is a fun watch. Batman Forever is a miserable watch. I feel like that gets a free pass. If people give it a free pass because it's technically not as bad as Batman and Robin, but it's like it's also not as fun.

[1:03:20] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, it's not as fun as Batman and Robin either. It's just kind of shit.

[1:03:24] Jesse McAnally: And then you've got Batman Returns on the other side where it's actually good and fucking entertaining.

[1:03:28] Andrew DeWolf: Batman Returns is the best Batman movie.

[1:03:31] Jesse McAnally: That one's great, but for some reason I just don't think of Michael Keaton when I think of Batman and I'm not going to be able to know.

[1:03:35] Andrew DeWolf: There's so many other things in that movie than Batman.

[1:03:39] Jesse McAnally: Okay, so as far as the cheese rating, I'm gonna give it uh polio cheese. Um and polio is a uh company that makes cheese that was founded in 1899, the same year as the newsboy strikes.

[1:03:53] Andrew DeWolf: See what you did there, and it's pretty clever.

[1:03:55] Jesse McAnally: Um, all right, is there anything else you have left to say, Andrew?

[1:03:59] Andrew DeWolf: I hope you enjoyed all 250 of our fucking episodes. And I if you haven't listened to all 249 before this, the plot of this episode just won't make sense.

[1:04:08] Jesse McAnally: It just won't make sense.

[1:04:09] Andrew DeWolf: Um, so you gotta go back and start at episode 100 and ignore the first hundred.

[1:04:14] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, yeah. We got 150 episodes of good content here, and then a hundred episodes of not good content.

[1:04:23] Andrew DeWolf: You know?

[1:04:24] Jesse McAnally: And in 200 more episodes, we'll be telling you about how you need to start on episode 250.

[1:04:30] Andrew DeWolf: You know, this is a good jumping on point for the newbies.

[1:04:35] Jesse McAnally: For the newsies. Speaking of newsies, you know who else is desperately trying to unionize from us? Our patrons.

[1:04:42] Andrew DeWolf: That's correct. Thank you guys for listening. Please follow us on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher at Music Schools of Cheese, on Twitter at Cheesy Musicals, Patreon Musicals with Cheese, Instagram Music Schools Cheese, YouTube page music schools of cheese, Patreon Podcast, Patreon with Cheats, me and Angel are getting some cool shit going on there soon. Email us at musical theaterlibs at gmail.com.

[1:04:57] Jesse McAnally: Our keeper of the cheese is Juliet Antonio. Here is some ASMR for you, Juliet. Let's seize the day. This show is edited by Andrew DeWolf and isn't he doing a fantastic job. Let's all give him a hand.

[1:05:10] Andrew DeWolf: Oh no, only the cricket clap.

[1:05:14] Jesse McAnally: Oh well. Thank you to the Broadway Podcast Network for having us on the platform and for not kicking us off for doing so so many injustices to the newsies.

[1:05:24] Andrew DeWolf: Um, they'll survive.

[1:05:26] Jesse McAnally: Alright, Andrew, anything else you have left to say?

[1:05:28] Andrew DeWolf: No.

[1:05:30] Jesse McAnally: Seize the day, boy. We'll see you next time on Musicals with Cheese.