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[0:05] Jesse McAnally: Hello, I'm Jesse McAnally.

[0:08] Andrew DeWolf: And I'm Andrew DeWolf.

[0:10] Jesse McAnally: And welcome to Musicals with Cheese, a podcast where I try to get Andrew to like musical theater.

[0:16] Andrew DeWolf: We're playing with anagrams today.

[0:19] Jesse McAnally: Is this how you see the world, Andrew?

[0:21] Andrew DeWolf: This is how I see the world.

[0:23] Jesse McAnally: Um, I like the way I think, you know?

[0:25] Andrew DeWolf: I yeah, I can't say the same.

[0:28] Jesse McAnally: I think differently than most people.

[0:32] Andrew DeWolf: You certainly do.

[0:33] Jesse McAnally: I mean, look at how the letters are all scrambled up and they're different now.

[0:37] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, and they make new words out of them.

[0:39] Jesse McAnally: Aren't I quirky?

[0:40] Andrew DeWolf: You are the quirkiest, in fact.

[0:43] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, um, if I was any quirkier, I'd be a Diablo Cody script.

[0:47] Andrew DeWolf: But instead we're gonna have to deal with David Lindsay-Abaire.

[0:50] Jesse McAnally: Uh yeah, so we are recording this episode hot off of the Tonys, and this was always kinda the plan to cover this, but now it's much more prescient.

[1:00] Andrew DeWolf: This week, in case you haven't picked up what we're throwing down, we are talking about the Tony winner for Best Musical, Kimberly Akimbo.

[1:08] Jesse McAnally: Hugh the Music.

[1:15] Andrew DeWolf: I'm in the one I know up there.

[1:19] Jesse McAnally: It's Saturday night at Skater Planet, the same is on the ice.

[1:24] Andrew DeWolf: So we hang around here waiting.

[1:27] Jesse McAnally: All the actions act involved.

[1:30] Andrew DeWolf: But we'd rather be here skating.

[1:33] Jesse McAnally: The actions are involved!

[1:36] Andrew DeWolf: We'd rather be here skating.

[1:44] Jesse McAnally: In New Jersey. Kimberly Akimbo was written by David Lindsay-Abaire with music and lyrics by Janine Tesori and David Lindsay-Abaire, reuniting for the first time since Shrek the Musical.

[1:55] Andrew DeWolf: It was based on David Lindsay-Abaire's play, Kimberly Akimbo from 2001.

[1:59] Jesse McAnally: The musical's premier production opened off Broadway on December 8th, 2021 at the Linda Gross Theater in Manhattan.

[2:05] Andrew DeWolf: It was critically acclaimed with performances of Victoria Clark, Justin Cooley, and Bonnie Milligan.

[2:11] Jesse McAnally: Um, and the book and lyrics being very highly praised.

[2:14] Andrew DeWolf: Um, it won Best Musical Prizes at the Drama Desk Awards, Lucille Lortel and Outer Critics Circle Awards, and that's just the off-Broadway production.

[2:22] Jesse McAnally: The show moved to Broadway, opening at the Booth Theater on November 12th, 2022, uh, with previews beginning on October 12th.

[2:29] Andrew DeWolf: The Broadway production also received critical acclaim, winning five Tony Awards, including Best Musical, Best Book of a Musical, Best Original Score, Best Leading Actress in a Musical, and Best Featured Actress in a Musical.

[2:39] Jesse McAnally: So Victoria Clark and Bonnie Milligan.

[2:42] Andrew DeWolf: Um, the plot of Kimberly Akimbo is Kim is a bright and funny Jersey teen who happens to look like a 72-year-old lady, and yet her aging condition may be the least of her problems.

[2:53] Jesse McAnally: Forced to maneuver family secrets, borderline personalities, and possible felony charges.

[3:05] Andrew DeWolf: So we just dropped you right into Kimberly Akimbo. Andrew, um, you were in New York recently, as was I, and we saw like this show everywhere.

[3:14] Jesse McAnally: Like, it's all over the place. Before seeing it, what did you think the show was?

[3:19] Andrew DeWolf: I I'll be honest, I had basically no idea. The marketing for it is kind of uh it's just like a picture of a shirt with a rainbow on it that says Kimberly Akimbo.

[3:31] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[3:32] Andrew DeWolf: Um, and it's like, I don't know what to take from that.

[3:35] Jesse McAnally: I was I honestly assumed she was like, yay.

[3:38] Andrew DeWolf: You thought it was just Fun Home again.

[3:40] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, I mean, and that's fine. I mean, I'm not saying that that would have been bad. Uh, just that's what I thought.

[3:46] Andrew DeWolf: It's not even close to the case.

[3:50] Jesse McAnally: I was completely wrong. This show's weird.

[3:53] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[3:54] Jesse McAnally: It might be one of the more weird Broadway shows in a while.

[3:57] Andrew DeWolf: I'm kind of okay with it.

[3:59] Jesse McAnally: Mm-hmm.

[3:59] Andrew DeWolf: I sort of liked it, honestly.

[4:02] Jesse McAnally: Just sort of.

[4:03] Andrew DeWolf: That's a very like I'm I mean, I just I just watched it last night, so I'm still like thinking about it.

[4:11] Jesse McAnally: There's a lot in the show, and there's a lot to think about that the show gives you a little bit. I I think that it was mostly pretty good though.

[4:19] Andrew DeWolf: There's some like quirkiness that I'm not a huge fan of.

[4:24] Jesse McAnally: Although less from the main characters and more from that uh kid that she becomes friends with, who I found to be a bit unbearable in certain ways.

[4:35] Andrew DeWolf: What do you feel about that kid was specifically unbearable, just like his cause I think his name's Seth.

[4:41] Jesse McAnally: Um just the the mannerisms, I think, is just a little bit too Evan Hansen-y.

[4:47] Andrew DeWolf: It's overly quirky in a way that is um can be unbearable. Although that might be just accurate to how some teenagers behave.

[4:57] Jesse McAnally: So I mean, a lot of them pretend to be their favorite anime characters and then go out into public, so.

[5:02] Andrew DeWolf: Ooh woo.

[5:03] Jesse McAnally: Ooh.

[5:05] Andrew DeWolf: Um, they could they could have embraced that side of it. This does feel I was both surprised and not particularly surprised to know that the original play was written in the early 2000s and the early aughts.

[5:16] Jesse McAnally: Because this feels like teenagers as seen through the eyes of 2001.

[5:22] Andrew DeWolf: There's no references to anything like that, but if you imagine that this show takes place in 2001, it makes a lot of sense.

[5:31] Jesse McAnally: Did you see one cell phone really?

[5:33] Andrew DeWolf: No.

[5:34] Jesse McAnally: And there's I feel like there's a lot more like gay panic type thing than you would see in 2023 in a in a high school.

[5:41] Andrew DeWolf: Although I haven't been in a high school in 2023, so we'll who knows on that one.

[5:46] Jesse McAnally: I feel like it's changed a lot since we were there.

[5:48] Andrew DeWolf: Um we're no longer the spring chickens we once were.

[5:51] Jesse McAnally: Um they're probably a lot more accepting, a lot more I don't know.

[5:54] Andrew DeWolf: I feel like they sanitize high school so much that it feels like not even a school, but then they have like the hard-hitting adult stuff.

[6:03] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, well, school in 2001 was nightmarish hellscape type thing.

[6:10] Andrew DeWolf: You know, like every every form of bullying you could imagine at all times.

[6:14] Jesse McAnally: And now it's just all on the internet.

[6:16] Andrew DeWolf: Um Yeah.

[6:17] Jesse McAnally: I now I'm the one doing it to all these little kids.

[6:20] Andrew DeWolf: Um they have to tolerate me.

[6:22] Jesse McAnally: Uh he's coming for you, Ben Platt.

[6:26] Andrew DeWolf: Noted 16-year-old.

[6:28] Jesse McAnally: It is interesting that this is, you know, kind of an adaptation of the Dear Evan Hansen movie.

[6:32] Andrew DeWolf: It really You know, if they had just leaned into that for the Evan Hansen movie.

[6:40] Jesse McAnally: In that there's a teenager who looks like a 72-year-old just hanging out, like there's no issue.

[6:46] Andrew DeWolf: I was wondering what your thought is. Is this like this is a real disorder that people have?

[6:52] Jesse McAnally: It's not offensive to them in any way, right?

[6:54] Andrew DeWolf: Why would it be?

[6:55] Jesse McAnally: I don't know. Every time we see something like this, I'm like, is it probably not, right?

[7:01] Andrew DeWolf: I I I really don't know. They say it's similar not to Progeria, which is this very specific disease that they're similar, not the same.

[7:10] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[7:11] Andrew DeWolf: This one's like a it's like a fantasy version of it.

[7:13] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, Benjamin Button fantasy uh realistic fiction kind of vibe.

[7:18] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. What is the plot of Kimberly Akimbo? Because even the plot I read, which is officially like the playbill thing, I I feel like it kind of doesn't sum it up.

[7:28] Jesse McAnally: Like it just kind of skirts around everything.

[7:30] Andrew DeWolf: He just barely.

[7:32] Jesse McAnally: Um when I So before watching the show, I listened to the cast album because I I I'm old now.

[7:38] Andrew DeWolf: I don't think I like musicals don't hit the same way for me anymore as they did when we first started the show.

[7:45] Jesse McAnally: It's hard for me to get passionate about these new shows, uh sincerely, which is maybe just me getting old and cynical and everything being shit now.

[7:54] Andrew DeWolf: But I really wanted to see like everyone saying this is great. I'm gonna listen to the cast album and see if I can get into it.

[8:00] Jesse McAnally: And I couldn't.

[8:01] Andrew DeWolf: But I was surprised by some of the things going on there.

[8:04] Jesse McAnally: Um and then I eventually did watch the bootleg, and I thought it's better to see it live, obviously, and see what's going on.

[8:11] Andrew DeWolf: I feel like this is a rare show where I actually kind of like the book more than the music.

[8:16] Jesse McAnally: That is a rare one, yeah.

[8:18] Andrew DeWolf: I feel like the music isn't bad. It's just kind of um It's not additive to it.

[8:23] Jesse McAnally: Like you could have this entire story without the songs.

[8:26] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[8:27] Jesse McAnally: Which they did.

[8:29] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[8:29] Jesse McAnally: It was called the original play.

[8:31] Andrew DeWolf: Not that not that the songs take away from the anything.

[8:35] Jesse McAnally: It's just um it's it's not as much of a which it's honestly a good thing.

[8:40] Andrew DeWolf: We don't talk about shows where it's like, oh, the book was really good.

[8:43] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[8:44] Andrew DeWolf: Is there another one where you can really think of like, oh, that was a really good book?

[8:48] Jesse McAnally: Maybe Hadestown off the top of my head.

[8:51] Andrew DeWolf: I love the Hadestown music, so I can't possibly say that.

[8:54] Jesse McAnally: This is Janine Tesori, one of the most prolific Broadway composers. And she did not do a bad job. Don't take this as me saying the music is bad.

[9:03] Andrew DeWolf: It's not.

[9:04] Jesse McAnally: I just think I liked the book more than I liked the music.

[9:08] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, but I think I'm only setting this up because we are gonna have to do a tier list at the end of this episode.

[9:13] Jesse McAnally: We finally covered enough of her work where we can rank it.

[9:17] Andrew DeWolf: Oh.

[9:17] Jesse McAnally: I'm gonna have to, you're gonna have to tell me what I'm ranking.

[9:20] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, you will. You'll you'll remember most of them.

[9:22] Jesse McAnally: I I know you will. There's not forgetting much of this.

[9:26] Andrew DeWolf: Um, but it seems the biggest thing that tracks along every one of her pieces of musical theater. It's sad dads and weird parental bullshit.

[9:38] Jesse McAnally: Like, all of them. It's in there. Even Shrek the Musical, it's in there.

[9:42] Andrew DeWolf: We should go over the plot.

[9:44] Jesse McAnally: Yes. What is Kimberly Akimbo about?

[9:46] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, well, it I mean, obviously we've been talking about it. Kimberly Akimbo is not her name.

[9:53] Jesse McAnally: Actually, it's Kimberly um good lord, I can't remember where the last name is.

[9:58] Andrew DeWolf: Like that.

[9:58] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, like Leoda or Lavaco.

[10:01] Andrew DeWolf: Lovaco.

[10:01] Jesse McAnally: That's okay. Uh, Cleverly Akimbo is a nickname that is given to her later.

[10:06] Andrew DeWolf: Because of anagrams.

[10:08] Jesse McAnally: Anagrams. I'm probably still gonna call her Kimberly Akimbo through this entire thing, though, because that's the title of the show.

[10:15] Andrew DeWolf: Well, she's about to turn 16 at the start of the show.

[10:18] Jesse McAnally: And she has a genetic disorder that makes her age four times faster in certain ways, which um puts her life expectancy at around 16 years old.

[10:30] Andrew DeWolf: Around 16, and of course she is about to turn 16, so kind of sad.

[10:35] Jesse McAnally: Uh, but it gets even sadder because her mother and father are pregnant with what is supposed to be the replacement child.

[10:42] Andrew DeWolf: There's just a lot of other like so the dad is like very much leaning into alcohol to I I think it's they never explicitly say any of this, but my thought is he is trying to numb himself for when she dies, you know, is turning to that.

[10:59] Jesse McAnally: But it could also be the other reveal in the second half that he's reacting to.

[11:04] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, it could be both.

[11:06] Jesse McAnally: It might it probably is both. The mother, who is pregnant, she she's kind of um what they what do they call that? The people that are are like um they fake illnesses and things to get into the channel.

[11:18] Andrew DeWolf: Munchausen by Yeah.

[11:20] Jesse McAnally: Not by proxy, just proxy.

[11:21] Andrew DeWolf: Munchausen's disorder.

[11:23] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, because it seems like she has she is using the fact that she has been like in the hospitals and stuff to try to get attention away from Kimberly, who is, you know, probably about to die uh pretty soon.

[11:37] Andrew DeWolf: Um, and she's like, I have it worse, I have it worse, I have all these things that are wrong, and it's like, yeah, sure.

[11:45] Jesse McAnally: Um and then uh I mean, there's a bunch of kids at school, but they are unrelated to the story in a lot of ways.

[11:53] Andrew DeWolf: Like, do we even need to talk about like there's like the four kids that they keep introducing?

[11:57] Jesse McAnally: Uh-huh.

[11:58] Andrew DeWolf: Um That's that's probably my biggest fault in it is we don't really need the ensemble.

[12:04] Jesse McAnally: Like, yeah. And I know people love Bonnie Milligan. I love Bonnie Milligan.

[12:09] Andrew DeWolf: Do we really need the Aunt Deborah character?

[12:11] Jesse McAnally: Well, kind of, but like not really.

[12:15] Andrew DeWolf: So, like, plot wise, you don't need her, but she introduces elements.

[12:21] Jesse McAnally: Yeah. Aunt Deborah is um who's the guy from Randy Quaid from Christmas Vacation?

[12:28] Andrew DeWolf: Cousin Randy.

[12:29] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, she's cousin Randy.

[12:31] Andrew DeWolf: Uh she shows up uh randomly in Kimberly's like school library.

[12:38] Jesse McAnally: They just moved uh to get away from her.

[12:42] Andrew DeWolf: Um like Kimberly's family moved away to get away from the aunt.

[12:46] Jesse McAnally: At least that's what they kind of say or imply.

[12:49] Andrew DeWolf: I think there's a reveal that changes the context of that, but she follows them and is like living in the school library, which I don't know how that's jokey jokes.

[13:01] Jesse McAnally: Her entire character, you could basically say for jokey jokes.

[13:04] Andrew DeWolf: You need to have some comedy relief.

[13:07] Jesse McAnally: And I understand it. I understand why you'd want to have some comedy relief.

[13:10] Andrew DeWolf: And I I'm I'm partially okay with this character.

[13:14] Jesse McAnally: Andrew loves King Herod.

[13:16] Andrew DeWolf: I love scams.

[13:18] Jesse McAnally: And she introduces the scam plot.

[13:21] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[13:22] Jesse McAnally: Which definitely hurts a lot of people.

[13:25] Andrew DeWolf: They steal so many checks.

[13:30] Jesse McAnally: And the main characters just go along with it and get away with it.

[13:36] Andrew DeWolf: And it's excellent.

[13:38] Jesse McAnally: But there's there's all that. Do you want to do the big reveal?

[13:40] Andrew DeWolf: What what's the big reveal in act two?

[13:42] Jesse McAnally: The big reveal in act two, which honestly, I don't know. I I have difficulty with this reveal.

[13:50] Andrew DeWolf: Because it doesn't really change anything emotionally.

[13:53] Jesse McAnally: Like, I think a twist or a reveal should really change the context of what happened before.

[13:59] Andrew DeWolf: And this doesn't really do that much, sincerely.

[14:03] Jesse McAnally: Umly like a little bit. It changes the context of like why they've moved.

[14:09] Andrew DeWolf: Why did these characters move?

[14:11] Jesse McAnally: It doesn't impact their relationships with one another.

[14:13] Andrew DeWolf: It doesn't explain the way that they treat one another really.

[14:16] Jesse McAnally: It's sort of maybe contextualize a little bit why the mother is like hostile to the others.

[14:23] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know. Not much, but basically we find out that god, this is so stupid.

[14:29] Jesse McAnally: I'm sorry, this is like a little too ridiculous for me.

[14:32] Andrew DeWolf: So they had to move because the mom wanted another baby, so she fucks the neighbor and gets pregnant, and then the dad hires the aunt to go intimidate the neighbor, but accidentally kills them, so now they're on the run.

[14:49] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[14:50] Jesse McAnally: Well, a little goofy, right? It's a little bit crazy, and it totally is a little bit weird for what the rest of the show's doing. I don't know. The show has this weird mix of like depressing grounded plot points mixed with like whimsical, quirky magical realism.

[15:10] Andrew DeWolf: Magic, yeah, it's like, and they're blended, and I appreciate what they're trying to do, but I feel like there could have been like maybe one more rewrite here before fully Broadway. I feel like they got really hyped by the positive praise they were getting. And I think it deserves it. I don't even think the praise is undeserving. Like, let's just say that. But they, yeah, there's just like there's a couple things that I would have wanted to make it perfect.

[15:40] Jesse McAnally: I did have a thought midway through act two, and I don't know if you'll disagree with me, but it came into my head. I'm like, this shouldn't be on stage. This feels like a movie. Like it feels like it should be a movie. I feel like with a movie, the mix of grounded realism and magic realism could work better.

[16:02] Andrew DeWolf: Yes. They could have an easier time going between those two things. Yeah, and you'd still have all the good things. Like specifically, Victoria Clark's performance as Kimberly is very, very good. I see why people are like, no, this is next level kind of performance here. Um, it does change the game. Bonnie Milligan, I love her in a lot of things. She's very funny. I really think that the family dynamic is what carries the show like super hard. And by family, I'm excluding the aunt.

[16:36] Jesse McAnally: Um, yeah. Um, Buddy, Patty, and Kimberly, and a little bit of Seth. I feel like when Seth has a narrative tool, throwing a wrench in Buddy's complex feelings of I'm glad she has a friend, but also mm mm men around women in my family make me uncomfortable for reasons I haven't unpacked yet. And yeah, she looks like she's a 75-year-old woman with like feelings and opinions, but also she's my 16-year-old daughter. Like, it is a complicated thing. And I like that moment a lot, actually. Um, and there's some very strong moments, but they're sort of undercut by the aunt scenes and the scenes of the kids that are just sort of unrelated to everything.

[17:23] Andrew DeWolf: Like unrelated to the point where Kimberly barely interacts with them. Yeah. I don't think I could name you any of their names or personality quirks, really. I'm not even sure all of them had names. The thing is, everyone else is so quirky and specific, Kimberly and Seth and the parents, that Delia and Martin and Aaron and Teresa, there's nothing left for them. There's nothing that you could do to make them really stand out.

[17:51] Jesse McAnally: You know, I don't want to dwell fully on the downsides though. No, no, no. The stuff with Kimberly and her family, especially um, she's near the end when she decides she's gonna go on the road trip. Mm-hmm. And I feel like the whole time we're everyone road trip is dead, you know? Bye, I'm going to heaven now.

[18:11] Andrew DeWolf: Right. It's, it means death. Yeah. I feel like that whole thing is just like, God damn, this is why you got Tony. Yeah. And the, the she, so on her 16th birthday, she learns all the horrible things that happened and her family's past why they moved um from a different place. Then she has a medical emergency, has to be in the hospital for a few days, and comes home and finds her room cleared out with baby shit. They had no intention of her ever coming home and that's such a fucked up thing. Like that moment is just like so, I wouldn't know how to feel that's such a strange like gross feeling in the pit of your stomach.

[18:56] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, like they, they won't say it, but they all just were like she's definitely gonna die in the hospital like that's it. I sincerely prefer this way of specifically Broadway handling topics like let's just call it terminal illness in this fantastical magical realism way 'cause moments like that will hit harder and surprise you and still let you sing and dance and be emotional about that in a way that let's say Next to Normal or Dear Evan Hansen just fumbles the ball. So really, like the ending, they just kind of fucking nail it, you know.

[19:34] Andrew DeWolf: So, and the fact that it ends, surprise there's no roller coaster jokes in the fucking reviews, um, with them going to Six Flags Great Adventure and the final number being called Great Adventure. I thought you'd get a real big kick out of that, Mr. Fucking Rolly Coasters.

[19:49] Jesse McAnally: Great Adventure is the one in New Jersey, right?

[19:53] Andrew DeWolf: Right. Yeah. I've never been.

[19:55] Jesse McAnally: What? I don't want to go.

[19:57] Andrew DeWolf: That's like die on a roller coaster, though. Let's be real.

[20:02] Jesse McAnally: I know she's 16, but she's not 16.

[20:05] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. Not in that way. Uh, maybe she could do like the teacups.

[20:11] Jesse McAnally: Why would she want a tree house?

[20:13] Andrew DeWolf: Not to harp on that one, but she sends make a wish up. The tree house is for the baby.

[20:19] Jesse McAnally: Oh.

[20:20] Andrew DeWolf: She's not gonna use the tree house.

[20:22] Jesse McAnally: But they don't even have a tree.

[20:23] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, well, that's, I don't know about that part. That one was weird. It just felt like a misplaced joke. And as someone that almost felt like the dad was trying to be like, why didn't you just ask for money or something like that? Which, you know, I get it. I get it.

[20:39] Jesse McAnally: Um, on that note, how about we compare our opinions to those of the theater critics around town? It's time for previews.

[20:45] Andrew DeWolf: It's time for previews.

[20:52] Jesse McAnally: It's time for previews.

[20:55] Andrew DeWolf: It's time for previews. Our first review comes from the New York Times, Jesse Green himself, written November 10th, 2022. He says, being a former good kid, and like Seth, an aficionado with the puzzleistic art, I began to see the character in the form of an animogramic terms. Possibly this one Sublime Cast equals best musical. As the past and present interpret interpretate in Clark's performance, you may feel, as I did, the themes of Kimberly Akimbo recombining to achieve an even sharper focus.

[21:26] Jesse McAnally: So we're recording this a few days after the Tony's. Um, and they actually did that anagram the first night after the Tony Awards where they went from Sublime Cast to Best Musical, and the audience lost their shit.

[21:39] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, the cast did a great job. I want to talk about the Aunt character and how I didn't love that, but I feel like the performance was exactly what they wanted and exactly what they were going for. So it's not the actress's fault. It's just I don't know how I feel about that character being in this show. It feels like you throw a character from, you know, National Lampoon's vacation into a fucking rabbit hole.

[22:07] Jesse McAnally: Um, the next review comes from Deadline. It was written by Greg Evans. Um, opening tonight the Booth Theater with its original off-Broadway cast intact, the miraculous Victoria Clark leading the very fine ensemble, Kimberly Akimbo remains a stunner. A sly, quirky, eccentric work of stage art transformed into a crowd pleaser by playwright David Lindsay-Abaire's captivating book and lyrics. Janine Tesori's delightful music that, like Kimberly Akimbo itself, works its way into your heart with a jauntiness that hides and ultimately amplifies its serious emotion.

[22:38] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know, I feel like the music distracts more than anything else. The ending song and in the mother's song, um, Father Time or something like that, those were very, very good. Um, and I think they did actually heighten those moments a lot. But then you got moments like Good Kid, where I'm just like, I can feel myself like falling asleep. Do we need this? I mean, it's like, I don't know. So, uh, it's sort of hit or miss on the music front. Not hit or miss in that there's bad songs, it's more like, do we need these songs to tell this story? There are some story songs that really I think work. Like um, I should be happy for her, um, which is Buddy's song when he's driving Kimberly and Seth around. That's like a perfect story song, um, as well as Before I Go, which is the 11 o'clock number. Incredible.

[23:29] Jesse McAnally: Um, but aside from those pieces, they're just cute, sincerely. Do we, I think we basically agree with the critics here? Um, because the musical is good. It's hard to be like negative negative against this show, but I just kind of, I can see something better through the trees, you know.

[23:48] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, this is one of those episodes where we're gonna get people saying, They didn't like this show. What the, I can't believe they tore apart Kimberly Akimbo, and we're like, it's well like we're more just like, damn, this was really good, but it could have been better. It's so when Fun Home came out, I remember one critic said, Well, this is a very good musical, I'm not sure it was destined to be a musical, and that it's the best way to transform this book. That's kind of how I feel about this. I'm like, it's a good musical, but I'm not sure a musical was the best form for the story. Maybe, I mean it won the Tony. Maybe we can get like a movie adaptation, and then that actually might be the best version of it. Honestly, if you're gonna do the Dear Evan Hansen thing, bring Victoria Clark back. She can't age out of the role.

[24:32] Jesse McAnally: Um, it's true. They literally just have her in old makeup.

[24:38] Andrew DeWolf: Worst case scenario, she just gets old.

[24:41] Jesse McAnally: Oh my god, they just be like, it makes you age five times faster.

[24:48] Andrew DeWolf: Wink. Um, but no, I thoroughly enjoyed it, especially compared to a lot of the other new musicals out right now. Which do you want to actually talk about some of them?

[24:58] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, we could talk about your amazing Tony predictions. We have And Juliet, which I hear is very good, but it is a jukebox musical about Romeo and Juliet. Like it knows what it is, it snows, it's for an audience, and from what I gather, it's like very emotional. It's very good.

[25:14] Andrew DeWolf: Um, but I've heard very good things. The soundtrack is good. I mean, I've listened to some of it just from like edits I've been doing. Um, I've listened to a lot of the soundtrack, and I mean they're pop songs, but they're done in different ways and they're done well. And that's kind of the good thing about the original Moulin Rouge film, is there pop songs done in a different way.

[25:35] Jesse McAnally: Then we have New York, New York. Do you know anything about this?

[25:39] Andrew DeWolf: Uh, Lynn Manuel Miranda?

[25:42] Jesse McAnally: Yes. So Candor and Ebb um were the guys behind Cabaret and Chicago and all those classic things. Um, they also wrote a lot of pop songs like New York, New York for Frank Sinatra. So they're taking all those songs and a couple of new ones because uh, Fred Ebb has died, Lin Manuel Miranda took over the lyrics, and apparently it's not good.

[26:05] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, that's a shame. Those though, I mean those are good songs, but I mean, geez, are those musical songs though?

[26:10] Jesse McAnally: They are just kind of pop songs, like that's a bad jukebox musical, as far as people are concerned. But again, we now have two jukebox musicals here, which Kimberly Akimbo, thankfully, is not.

[26:17] Andrew DeWolf: Uh, well, let's talk about Shuck, which was the one I was thinking might take it too. I've heard really good things, so we have to watch that.

[26:31] Jesse McAnally: My favorite thing about Shuck is it feels like one of the things we'd come up with on Make Me a Musical. I think I've brought that up to you before. It's like, oh no, we're running out of corn. Gotta go to the big city and figure out where to have no more corn. I'm like, hell yeah. That is literally, I think we've written almost exactly that on the musical before.

[26:53] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. Totally into it. Um, a lot of the Tony winners, um, Alex Newell came from that, so that's pretty cool. And then Some Like It Hot, which is a stage adaptation of a film, a Marilyn Monroe film. Little transphobic, but it has Mark Shaman and Scott Whitman coming back. Um, not really my thing. I've heard it's good, but man dressed as women.

[27:18] Jesse McAnally: The joke kind of died with Tootsie. Sorry, guys.

[27:21] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, but I mean I hear it's a hoot, so it's a hoot.

[27:25] Jesse McAnally: Um, but as far as the competition, you know what? Fair. Kimberly Akimbo deserved it that year.

[27:32] Andrew DeWolf: This year. I feel like there's a lot of years there where this would win, because I mean, there's a lot of years like this year, so yeah, it's not like the strange loop year where it was strangely packed.

[27:33] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, like there's a lot of years where everything that comes out is probably a jukebox musical or trash. So it's good to see a show like this, you know.

[27:55] Andrew DeWolf: I was seriously surprised that Parade took best revival and best direction of a revival over Sweeney Todd.

[28:04] Jesse McAnally: Um, you just straight up said you did not like the direction of Parade, is that right?

[28:09] Andrew DeWolf: No, I didn't mind. There were elements I didn't like the direction of Parade. Um, I think Sweeney Todd got a little bit robbed. Sweeney Todd was pretty good.

[28:20] Jesse McAnally: Honestly, I think my direction would have probably gone to Into the Woods. I really, really enjoyed watching that revival. Uh, but it's not showy at all.

[28:29] Andrew DeWolf: Um, Michael Arden, good director, made some choices there, is all I'll say.

[28:36] Jesse McAnally: Um, let's go into a mid-show and then we'll talk about some of these tunes.

[28:45] Andrew DeWolf: Hey guys, sorry to interrupt you in the middle of the show, but we've got a shill at you. Today's show is brought to you by the extremely kind of answer by our donors over at Patreon. Patreon is this place where you get some cool shit. We had a Patreon meetup with a bunch of our friends. Uh, Andrew was there and we showed up. Um, and then we also get to have some commentaries. Maybe, maybe for our 250th, me and Andrew will do a commentary on something very special um related to our 250th episode.

[29:14] Andrew DeWolf: That would be pretty cool. Um, there's a lot of cool things coming up there. And it's gonna be a lot more consistent because I'm not gonna be killing myself making a film every week. Um, now that's over. I'm free! I'm free! Um, but our current donors are Melissa Goldman, Danielle Rennes, Jess the Stampedewan Casty, Monica Thoreau, Brent Black, Lithanial Stacey Coomb, Joseph Evans Green, Mary Lou Show Ketchan Finals, Russ Walker, Musical Hell, Emily Gracie, Kyle Summers, Jen AC, Scoot and the Technicolor Dreamcoat, Liz Lim, nothing is certain except Beth and Taxes, Desbian, Jessica T, Mitchell Young, Chai T Cup, Katie McDonough, Chris Marco, KG Marie Anastasio, Layla, RJ Narija, Mjorin Herman's, Toriana Frazier, Sammy the Adequate Amount, Lopez.

[29:28] Jesse McAnally: Oh no!

[29:28] Andrew DeWolf: Sammy the adequate amount, Jacobson! Did they get married?

[30:01] Jesse McAnally: Stop laughing. This is not funny.

[30:06] Andrew DeWolf: Ryanna Morton, Kaylee Blazier, Cinemageton Reviews, Villainous Miss Sofiana Ali, the Omega Geek, Paige Pearson, Maddie Worgle, Elisa Erdman, Annalos Catova, Sarah Dan Black here, Evan Balls, Ecary Torres, Rora Morasso, Mara Fourloin, Captain Rodastic, Lisa L, Nobody, Rick Rotan, uh, Puffy Boy, Summer, Julia Hardy, Jakeusia, and Caitlin Bridgeman. They give us a little extra financial support that helps us keep the lights on here, musicals of cheese.

[30:35] Jesse McAnally: Literally, because the power might go out any second for me.

[30:38] Andrew DeWolf: Uh, if you'd like to join your looms.

[30:41] Jesse McAnally: It does. It's like Thor is coming down.

[30:44] Andrew DeWolf: If you would like to join them in supporting us and helping us do this, um, sincerely, come join them over at Patreon. It really is financially keeping us afloat, uh, more than we probably let on. Um, thank you guys, and let's get back to the show.

[31:07] Jesse McAnally: What do you think of the opening number?

[31:09] Andrew DeWolf: Skater planet at the skating rink.

[31:13] Jesse McAnally: It's Saturday night in Buffcrack Township on a road without a sign.

[31:18] Andrew DeWolf: In a town where there's not much in.

[31:21] Jesse McAnally: Forty minutes east of hope.

[31:24] Andrew DeWolf: Forty miles from the touch in the one I love.

[31:28] Jesse McAnally: It's Saturday night, and I'm the new girl, so I get to start from scratch.

[31:33] Andrew DeWolf: Next a load eye.

[31:35] Jesse McAnally: This is dreamy.

[31:36] Andrew DeWolf: Sure tonight, I'm getting looks.

[31:39] Jesse McAnally: But tomorrow they might see me.

[31:42] Andrew DeWolf: Always getting looks.

[31:44] Jesse McAnally: They never really see me in New Jersey.

[31:58] Andrew DeWolf: I'm gonna be real. I think the opening kind of stinks. I I don't like the skating rink as a connective tissue, sincerely.

[32:06] Jesse McAnally: Like what is it even connect?

[32:09] Andrew DeWolf: Like the cover goes there.

[32:11] Jesse McAnally: The mom, yeah, they do.

[32:13] Andrew DeWolf: Do they?

[32:14] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, because the mom gets on the skates and breaks like another people.

[32:17] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, right, right, right. That's the only reason why I remember just because I was like, oh no, the pregnant lady's on the skates.

[32:22] Jesse McAnally: Kimberly never goes back with those kids, though.

[32:24] Andrew DeWolf: No.

[32:25] Jesse McAnally: The kids keep talking about how they're gonna go back, and she never does.

[32:28] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[32:28] Jesse McAnally: Um, but the mom does.

[32:31] Andrew DeWolf: It's kinda cool that they're roller skating on stage.

[32:33] Jesse McAnally: That and I think specifical specific detail. She just thinks it's really cool when shows have roller skating on stage.

[32:41] Andrew DeWolf: No, because they're not roller skating. They're bl like it's like proper ice skating blades on a stage.

[32:48] Jesse McAnally: And I think that's pretty cool. And I watched a little bit of how they had to be very careful about it and how they have to make sure that the stage is super de duper clean.

[32:56] Andrew DeWolf: Like, I I think that's pretty impressive. Um it visually it's really cool. Like when the snow starts coming down like that.

[33:03] Jesse McAnally: I don't I couldn't tell if it was like physical projections or a good mix of both, but I but the physical like thing where they have to actually like skate on roller skate, uh blue- what is it? What is the thing?

[33:14] Andrew DeWolf: The ice one.

[33:16] Jesse McAnally: Skates.

[33:16] Andrew DeWolf: Not roller though.

[33:18] Jesse McAnally: Ice skates.

[33:18] Andrew DeWolf: Ice skates.

[33:19] Jesse McAnally: Like stage ice skates. I think that's pretty cool.

[33:22] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[33:23] Jesse McAnally: I think that, um, like, story-wise, the plot the part where she's like waiting in the cold and her dad shows up super late and is drunk, like, all that is great.

[33:33] Andrew DeWolf: Um, but the actual initial opening song is just kind of like, why it's like uh it feels very popular.

[33:40] Jesse McAnally: Like, uh-uh, uh-uh, uh-uh, uh uh.

[33:42] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, it's just an I honestly feel like the better first song would have been the the song the mom does, where it's like explaining what her character is, but that's not really good at all.

[33:52] Jesse McAnally: But we don't set up that they're in New Jersey fifty times that way, Andrew.

[33:55] Andrew DeWolf: It's true.

[33:56] Jesse McAnally: Which being in New Jersey is very important because uh six flags, great adventure.

[34:02] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, okay.

[34:04] Jesse McAnally: Um there's no other six flags, that's the only one.

[34:07] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, there's the one with the Batman ride and nothing else.

[34:10] Jesse McAnally: Um, let's move on. Um, one of my favorite like little storytelling pieces is the mom's song, and it is what we end on.

[34:18] Andrew DeWolf: The hello darling, like where she's doing video messages to her unborn belly or unborn baby.

[34:25] Jesse McAnally: Hello, darling. It's me, your mother. You're in my belly right now, and sometimes you kick me.

[34:33] Andrew DeWolf: Isn't that precious?

[34:36] Jesse McAnally: Isn't that precious?

[34:38] Andrew DeWolf: Hey, guess what?

[34:40] Jesse McAnally: I have no hands.

[34:42] Andrew DeWolf: Just kidding. I have hands, but I just can't use them.

[34:47] Jesse McAnally: Not yet, at least, but just as soon as the stitches heal.

[34:53] Andrew DeWolf: I had carpal tunnel.

[34:56] Jesse McAnally: Both hands.

[34:58] Andrew DeWolf: All those years in mode I took their toll.

[35:01] Jesse McAnally: Sixteen years I worked in the sunshine cupcake Factory, pumping cream into those ding-dong knockoffs.

[35:09] Andrew DeWolf: Sixteen years of squeezing, squeezing, squeezing the goddamn cream gun.

[35:15] Jesse McAnally: I really enjoyed that as a way to tell stories, and I feel like they kind of stole it a little bit from Waitress, the dear baby kind of thing.

[35:24] Andrew DeWolf: But I'm I'm not complaining. This this predates Waitress because, you know, 2001 play.

[35:30] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[35:30] Andrew DeWolf: I think that the uh the way it characterizes the mother is like uh hostile to her own family in a way and like very um needy for attention.

[35:39] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[35:40] Andrew DeWolf: It's interesting. And it's very I think it's pointed a little bit that the mother almost seems jealous of their daughter who f looks like her mother, like looks like old enough to be your mother.

[35:53] Jesse McAnally: There's a weird kind of emotional disconnect going on there with me, where it's like seeing them someone that old enough to be this actress's mother yell at her about you just don't understand me, mom.

[36:06] Andrew DeWolf: It's very, very surreal to me.

[36:09] Jesse McAnally: Uh, and I think what's interesting with this one is uh every character, every every main character gets this song.

[36:16] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[36:17] Jesse McAnally: Um, at some point in the show.

[36:19] Andrew DeWolf: Mm-hmm.

[36:19] Jesse McAnally: Um which is uh it's a good way to a good through line. It's a good excuse for them to say their emotions to nothing.

[36:27] Andrew DeWolf: I you know, and you can say that it's lazy or whatever, but it's a good thing to have in a show, you know.

[36:34] Jesse McAnally: A hundred percent.

[36:34] Andrew DeWolf: Um there's a reason why phone calls are or voicemails are very useful narrative device in a lot of things.

[36:42] Jesse McAnally: Thank god that FaceTime is developing FaceTime voicemail, it's gonna help filmmaking a lot.

[36:48] Andrew DeWolf: I guess we have to move on to Anagram, which is the the the strangely the marketing push of this show.

[36:55] Jesse McAnally: Everyone's singing this, it's what they sang at the Tony, it's the first clip they released, the first song they released.

[37:00] Andrew DeWolf: I like your point of view.

[37:02] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, yick, yicky, mickey, ricky, icky.

[37:06] Andrew DeWolf: I like the way you make a point.

[37:08] Jesse McAnally: I like your frame of mind.

[37:10] Andrew DeWolf: A little quick, a little sharp, a little beat behind.

[37:14] Jesse McAnally: I like the way you crack a joke that no one else will get.

[37:18] Andrew DeWolf: A little dry, a little droll, a little dumb.

[37:21] Jesse McAnally: And yes Oprah Cobra Marble Barley.

[37:24] Andrew DeWolf: I like your point of view.

[37:26] Jesse McAnally: Ramo cello limo Rio Macro Micro Mayo Bakery.

[37:30] Andrew DeWolf: Oh with the turn of a letter.

[37:34] Jesse McAnally: Oh, everything's better.

[37:38] Andrew DeWolf: I wonder how you see the things you see with the change of perspective.

[37:47] Jesse McAnally: Nothing's defective.

[37:51] Andrew DeWolf: What are your thoughts on this song?

[37:53] Jesse McAnally: This is like Kimberly's uh Love Song with Seth.

[37:57] Andrew DeWolf: Love Discovery, Romantic Discovery.

[38:00] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[38:01] Andrew DeWolf: It's it's sad in a in a number of ways.

[38:06] Jesse McAnally: Because, you know, she's gonna die like really soon.

[38:09] Andrew DeWolf: So it's like, damn, that sucks.

[38:11] Jesse McAnally: But also, like, um, it's good.

[38:16] Andrew DeWolf: It is, but it I am discovering something about David Lindsay Abair's lyric writing.

[38:21] Jesse McAnally: Both in this and in Shrek the Musical, which are the two big ones I know him from.

[38:26] Andrew DeWolf: He relies a lot on noises as opposed to words.

[38:29] Jesse McAnally: A repeated noise.

[38:30] Andrew DeWolf: Um, so like Kim's O, oh, like consistently through it.

[38:36] Jesse McAnally: And the same, like, uh, for the opening number, uh-oh, uh oh.

[38:42] Andrew DeWolf: And for Shrek the Musical, hmmm.

[38:45] Jesse McAnally: Like, he will just find one noise and repeat it a lot and make that throughout it.

[38:50] Andrew DeWolf: Part of the rhyming scheme.

[38:51] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, and kind of use that as a easy to rhyme something with O, because O is not a word.

[38:57] Andrew DeWolf: You can just end a end a different word with O, and then that ends.

[39:02] Jesse McAnally: And I'm not saying that's a bad thing, it's just a thing.

[39:06] Andrew DeWolf: Like, not everything that I point out is like, oh, it's a bad thing.

[39:10] Jesse McAnally: It's just a thing that I am discovering.

[39:13] Andrew DeWolf: Um I think it's actually interesting, and I think a lot of um a lot of lyricists are sometimes afraid to just have characters make a noise.

[39:22] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[39:23] Andrew DeWolf: And I think that that's actually uh a totally fine and valid.

[39:26] Jesse McAnally: I like um it's like uh those old songs where people would go shoo up, show up, shoo up, uh and it's like that's not a word.

[39:36] Andrew DeWolf: I feel like most people are trying to be really clever about it.

[39:39] Jesse McAnally: Um I think it's uh quote from Anais Mitchell, um, that I think was pointed towards Sontime when she made it.

[39:46] Andrew DeWolf: Anais Mitchell, who wrote Hades Town, which is um the focus on perfect rhymes and k consistency is is in direct relationship to how uncomplex the male orgasm is.

[40:00] Jesse McAnally: Which I'm like, okay, that's a take. I see where for some reason that makes sense to me.

[40:06] Andrew DeWolf: Someone to talk to, someone to study with, someone to share a joke, someone to buddy with.

[40:15] Jesse McAnally: Buddy whisp.

[40:17] Andrew DeWolf: I should be happy for her.

[40:21] Jesse McAnally: Happy, happy, happy for her.

[40:25] Andrew DeWolf: I should be happy.

[40:27] Jesse McAnally: And a gentleman can be rearranged to spell elegant man.

[40:33] Andrew DeWolf: I like happy for her a lot.

[40:35] Jesse McAnally: Um it reminds me a lot of Janine DeSori's other bad sad dad musicals.

[40:42] Andrew DeWolf: Like and they all take place in cars.

[40:45] Jesse McAnally: You got Violet, you've got uh fun home, you've got this, or it's just like dad and me in a car, and it's a little weird.

[40:52] Andrew DeWolf: You know, sad dads are are great, but um this is more of a bad sad dad, which is not as great.

[41:00] Jesse McAnally: I like normal sad dads where they're not bad sad dads, you know?

[41:04] Andrew DeWolf: Like I like I like sad dads that are sad, but they're good dads.

[41:08] Jesse McAnally: This is why we'll never get quoted in like every any real publication ever, because that's all that they can write.

[41:15] Andrew DeWolf: They will have to take that as your full quote, and it's just gibberish at the bottom of the poster.

[41:20] Jesse McAnally: I like a sad dad, but I don't like a bad sad dad, but this is more of a mad, bad sad dad, and I just kinda like a sad dad.

[41:28] Andrew DeWolf: Wait, you can't put you can put that on a poster.

[41:30] Jesse McAnally: I don't understand.

[41:31] Andrew DeWolf: Someone photoshopped that to the bottom of the the Kimberly Akimbo poster.

[41:35] Jesse McAnally: Would anyone ever quote us on a poster, anyways?

[41:38] Andrew DeWolf: I would be upset if someone did that.

[41:40] Jesse McAnally: I'd be like, really? You're using us?

[41:44] Andrew DeWolf: We have been used in academic paperworks as references.

[41:47] Jesse McAnally: Just so you know.

[41:50] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, who the fuck else?

[41:51] Jesse McAnally: Who else is listening to us?

[41:52] Andrew DeWolf: Do I mean that's funny, but are we academic?

[41:57] Jesse McAnally: I don't know.

[41:58] Andrew DeWolf: We've we we've been called it before.

[42:01] Jesse McAnally: We I mean, I I hate to burst everyone's bubble, but we do actually zero research.

[42:05] Andrew DeWolf: Like that's not true.

[42:07] Jesse McAnally: That is that is not entirely true.

[42:10] Andrew DeWolf: I do a lot of research.

[42:11] Jesse McAnally: It's entirely true.

[42:12] Andrew DeWolf: I do no research.

[42:13] Jesse McAnally: Jess does a little research.

[42:15] Andrew DeWolf: And calls it a lot.

[42:18] Jesse McAnally: I I I under sell how much research I do.

[42:21] Andrew DeWolf: I feel like a lot of especially the early days was just me having that info.

[42:27] Jesse McAnally: Now you have to actually sort of look stuff up so you can keep the title of the guy that knows it's getting harder every year man.

[42:37] Andrew DeWolf: These new fucking fangled Broadway composers think thinking they are cool.

[42:43] Jesse McAnally: Okay so fun not so fun fact but um when Jason Robert Brown went up to the mic for because Jason Robert Brown has never been able to give a speech at the Tony's on air um for when he won best musical or best orchestrations or whatever he won he's always been left off air and this time parade won best revival so he was like finally it's my time he gets up to the mic gets two words out they cut him off and that he got out Mary Fagan and just cut off music play.

[43:17] Andrew DeWolf: Oh my god wow that's like rude I almost wish we had done a live stream that night so we could have seen that moment the Tonies were weird they weren't allowed to have writers so they were like um I don't know who's next um but they're going up they had to improv during everything it was a shit show.

[43:38] Jesse McAnally: Um oh yeah because the writers are all on strike yep uh are the music theater writers also on strike is music theater about to be shitty for the next like three years.

[43:47] Jesse McAnally: No, it doesn't affect us because different guilds. However, there are people that were a part of the WGA that were nominated for awards, and the WGA asked them not to attend. And the Tony Commission got a special like things that allowed them to go on as usual. Okay. Um, and that pissed off a lot of people. Alright, so how to wash a check.

[44:19] Andrew DeWolf: Alright, listen. This mailbox is filled with checks, which we're gonna retrieve and wipe clean.

[44:26] Jesse McAnally: Isn't that check fraud?

[44:27] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, what even is check fraud?

[44:30] Jesse McAnally: It's the fraudulent use of checks. Merriam Webster over here. Okay, let's review how to wash a check. Tie the fish line. Open the mailbox. Drop the glue trap. Get a bite. Pull the line up. Take the check out. Make a copy. Do it right. Or nobody gets what they want.

[45:02] Andrew DeWolf: Nobody gets what they want.

[45:07] Jesse McAnally: Sing it.

[45:05] Andrew DeWolf: Nobody gets what they want.

[45:10] Jesse McAnally: In harmony, nobody gets what they want.

[45:13] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, yeah. Comedy number, big funny comedy. Like, you like a heist, do you like a con man?

[45:21] Jesse McAnally: I mean, at least it's the act two opener.

[45:23] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. Which I you you can almost forgive it. You could be like, okay, well, fine. Did you learn how to wash a check though?

[45:30] Jesse McAnally: Honestly, it wasn't as instructive as I was hoping. I learned a lot more about how to get a glue trap stuck to my head.

[45:37] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. Or how to get your hands stuck in a mailbox. Just like Charlie Brown.

[45:42] Jesse McAnally: I do love that the um that the conclusion to the um stealing all these checks and stealing the mailboxes and all of that. The conclusion to that is Kimberly just takes all the money for herself and doesn't give uh Deborah any cut at all.

[45:57] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, or anyone else a cut, probably for that matter. The kids got their cut because they got their costumes for Show Choir.

[46:02] Jesse McAnally: Oh, right, right. That's what they were doing it for the costume. So she gives everyone but Deborah a cut.

[46:07] Andrew DeWolf: Yes. Kimberly's a decent person. She still stole all that money.

[46:10] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, it's not her money, but whoa, she's gonna die. What are you gonna sue her corpse?

[46:16] Andrew DeWolf: That's true. Good shit. Congratulations, Kimberly. You did it. Uh finally a character I can get behind. I think stealing is good. I think robbing a bank is a victimless crime.

[46:26] Jesse McAnally: I think robbing a bank is a victimless crime, but I think taking money from people's personal bank accounts is not a good thing.

[46:34] Andrew DeWolf: It's kind of funny. Though likely they can get that money back. I mean, it's they're usually insured, and if they can prove that it wasn't them, but I mean victimless crime. Moving on to before I go.

[46:49] Jesse McAnally: I'm still here.

[46:54] Andrew DeWolf: I was never the girl you intended. She was young and she was bold. She'd hold your hand when you got old. Let's admit the dream has ended. And what you wished for wasn't me. It was the ghost of a girl. I'll never be.

[47:28] Jesse McAnally: Which is Kimberly's 11 o'clock number. Banger. I mean, come on. We've already said this a little bit. This song, this song bangs. Fucking good as hell. The whole ending, like everything from when she goes to the hospital, I think is pretty pretty freaking solid, you know.

[47:45] Andrew DeWolf: I agree. But like, I didn't talk much about the lyrics, um, except for maybe like the specifics. Here's where they really sing to me. Um it it breaks down like who Kimberly is and every failure that she feels that she has, which is I was never the girl you intended. She was young and she was bold. She'd hold your hand when you got old. Let's admit the dream is ended, and what you wished for wasn't me. It's a was the ghost of the girl I'll never be. That's so fucked up.

[48:13] Jesse McAnally: So true.

[48:15] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. It's really sad. This whole this whole thing was really sad, but somehow they still managed to spin it and have it end with like an optimistic, almost a happy ending, which is is wild. And I actually appreciate that. Because some shows, like it I feel like it's easy to just be a downer. Really depressing and just a downer. It's difficult to be really bittersweet, but still sweet at the end, you know.

[48:41] Jesse McAnally: That's that's difficult. It's weird to have because it's not a a really resolute ending. Um, you don't feel resolved, but she says, like, thank you for the tree house. I'm gonna bungee, but instead I'm gonna bungee trap jump, I'm gonna jet ski, I'm gonna hang glide and clog dance and swim at the bottom of the waterfall in New Zealand. I'll see the world, smiley face. It's a promise that I know I don't have time, but the last bits I'm actually gonna live because she's had to live in this shitty house with these shitty people for all of her very short life.

[49:13] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. And it's such a bummer. So she's finally, despite not having much time left, gonna do what she can with the time.

[49:20] Jesse McAnally: Yeah. It's uh it's the good ending. Now and they almost tease the bad ending because when she goes to the hospital, there's a there's a I think a part of everybody in the audience who's like, oh, this is how the show's gonna end, huh? We're getting to like the sad dead ending.

[49:35] Andrew DeWolf: Well, it's I mean, it's a really easy ending to do, right? Like just everyone comes to the hospital and oh my goodness, it's so sad, and then she sings her.

[49:48] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, and then she dies, and everyone goes, Oh my goodness, she changed all of us for the better somehow. And then they're like, I will use my time to be better, my time to love harder, like that kind of thing. And it's just like, and that's just like that that's the easy ending, right? The hard ending is uh something else.

[50:07] Andrew DeWolf: This is so much better than that ending. The ending we made up and they never had.

[50:12] Jesse McAnally: Of course. No, but like you can see that though.

[50:14] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, I could. It's like there's a lot of shows that would have just done that.

[50:18] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, what a what a what a surprisingly good show. Um for some.

[50:25] Andrew DeWolf: Well, yeah, but then Rent also goes bittersweet by like, oh, she comes back to life.

[50:29] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, but that part's a that part's fictional. That's a Jacobs Ladder ending.

[50:36] Andrew DeWolf: I die without you.

[50:39] Jesse McAnally: Okay, Janine Sassori tier list. Um, I'm gonna give you where do you think Kimberly Akimbo is gonna fall first?

[50:47] Andrew DeWolf: Um, I know we've had some criticisms, but I think I don't know the competition, but I'm gonna go with A. Let's just throw it in A and we'll we'll move things around if if there's something else.

[50:59] Jesse McAnally: Alright, now we're gonna go to Violet. Do you remember that show? We talked about with Pro Ryan.

[51:02] Andrew DeWolf: God, I barely remember this show. I remember saying something about like the facial scar wasn't like at what I thought it would be. You like the sad dad element of that show.

[51:13] Jesse McAnally: I did. God, I remember so little though, I can't possibly put it in A. We'll put it in B because I feel like I kind of liked it when we watched it.

[51:22] Andrew DeWolf: That's fair. But I don't know, maybe it goes lower. We'll see what the other others are. Next we have Thoroughly Modern Millie.

[51:29] Jesse McAnally: I don't think you forgot this one.

[51:31] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, but that's for all the wrong reasons.

[51:35] Jesse McAnally: White slavers. I I don't think I feel comfortable not putting this in D tier.

[51:40] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. Just because like, does it even deserve it though? Like, there are good songs and things in it.

[51:45] Jesse McAnally: I'd say D tier if this were my list, sincerely.

[51:49] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, the the racism thing is a little bit hard to ignore. Mm-hmm.

[51:54] Jesse McAnally: Okay. Sorry. I think the music in that is not that bad though.

[51:59] Andrew DeWolf: Next up, we have Caroline or Change. Do you remember that one?

[52:04] Jesse McAnally: Yes. I remember not thinking it was that good.

[52:07] Andrew DeWolf: Damn. I remember I remember being kind of bored by it. Alright, where are you putting it?

[52:12] Jesse McAnally: Uh yeah. I guess it would C. If this were my list, I'd flop. I'd put Caroline and B and Violet in C, but I I could see that even, but both of these are both, they're both like I don't remember them, and I remember feeling like I liked Violet more, but I might even be wrong about that. Um, then we have Shrek the musical.

[52:34] Andrew DeWolf: The meme part of me says A immediately. Obviously. But uh that might be a B?

[52:41] Jesse McAnally: Nah, we're putting an A. It's it's an A. I think it's below Kimberly Akimbo, though. I think I actually like Kimberly Akimbo more.

[52:47] Andrew DeWolf: Alright. Fun home.

[52:49] Jesse McAnally: B.

[52:50] Andrew DeWolf: Really? Below Violet?

[52:53] Jesse McAnally: Uh not below. They're they're we're we'll keep them the same. Why?

[52:57] Andrew DeWolf: Okay. Below Shrek and Kimberly Akimbo?

[53:00] Jesse McAnally: Dude, I did not have that much fun with Fun Home. I'm gonna be real.

[53:03] Andrew DeWolf: Shrek and Kimberly Akimbo, I was like, dang, these are pretty good. Fun home, I was like, this is like good, but like, I don't know.

[53:11] Jesse McAnally: You're crazy, man. You're you're crazy and you're wrong.

[53:14] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, get the fuck out of here. It's B tier.

[53:18] Jesse McAnally: Okay, so Andrew's official Janine Tessori ranking is Kimberly Akimbo, Shrek the Musical, Violet, Fun Home, Caroline or Change, and Thoroughly Modern Millie. Look, you wanted to you want Fun Home up above everything else, don't you? You want like there to be an S tier and it's in there.

[53:33] Andrew DeWolf: Fuck you. It wasn't that good. Fun Home is mid.

[53:38] Jesse McAnally: Okay, okay, oh, okay. Eventually we will have to talk about Tessori's other work, including her songs for The Emperor's New Groove 2, Kronk's New Groove, Little Mermaid, Ariel's Beginning, Mulan 2, and you know, just all those babies.

[53:55] Andrew DeWolf: Dang, she was uh she was pumping out some stuff for those Disney sequels, huh?

[53:59] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, and that but they've never asked her to do a proper movie yet. They go to Lin-Manuel Miranda for that.

[54:05] Andrew DeWolf: She probably did a pretty decent job for those too.

[54:07] Jesse McAnally: I mean a lot of the songs in those sequels aren't that bad.

[54:10] Andrew DeWolf: No. Um I am confused as to why they don't use her either. She has a very similar sound to like Alan Mencken. And she did Shrek the Musical. Like, come on.

[54:17] Jesse McAnally: Maybe that's why.

[54:20] Andrew DeWolf: Maybe that's why. Oh, because of Lord Farquad.

[54:24] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, Lord Farquad was not gonna not gonna have that. What's your overall thoughts in Kimberly Akimbo on your cheese rating?

[54:31] Andrew DeWolf: I actually really enjoyed it. There's certain elements that I feel like the show could go without, and maybe or maybe they could just be more better tied into the rest of the story in some way. But really, any complaint I have is more of a minor thing, and I think the overall complete package is something I really enjoyed. Um, especially the ending. Good lord. Uh I cry every time.

[54:57] Jesse McAnally: Okay.

[54:57] Andrew DeWolf: I'm telling you. Uh cheese rating. It's gotta be some sort of aged cheese, you know, because of the implications. I'm just gonna give it aged cheddar.

[55:06] Jesse McAnally: So the first thing that comes to my mind.

[55:07] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, that's fair enough. Um aged cheddar. I mean, I enjoy the pun. I like Kimberly Akimbo, but I'm not gonna lie. I I'm still like a little iffy on it. I do like that Kimberly Akimbo sees the world in all its wonders.

[55:23] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, she sees the world in all of its wonders. She sees things differently. I like the way you think.

[55:27] Andrew DeWolf: Um, but I am giving this. Um You know what? I'm gonna put it in anagram. Um Juliet, you have to um you have to figure out what it is.

[55:41] Jesse McAnally: Um, I don't think they're gonna do it. Um announce defoe fetish.

[55:46] Andrew DeWolf: And Defoe is spelled D E F O E. Announce defo fetish. That is my cheese rating. I'm not gonna try to figure it out. This is up to someone else. Juliet, it's up to you. What is my cheese rating?

[55:59] Jesse McAnally: You're in your rank as our cheese ranker. Keeper of the cheese, what is my cheese rating?

[56:06] Andrew DeWolf: It does have the word cheese in there, if that helps. I did give you at least one word, so um, all right, Andrew. That was a lot of fun. Um, but you know what else has a lot of fun. Uh the basketball sized hail outside.

[56:24] Jesse McAnally: Yes, destroying my car, but also our wonderful patrons. Thank you guys for listening. Please follow us on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher Musicals with Cheese. We're on Twitter at Cheesy Musicals, Patreon Musicals with Cheese, Instagram Musicals and Cheese, YouTube page musicals with cheese. Our patron only podcast is called Patreon with Cheese. Come check us over there on Patreon. Email us at musicaltheatrelives@gmail.com to tell us how wrong Andrew is about putting Fun Home solo on their tier list. Our keeper of the cheese is Juliet Antonio.

[56:50] Andrew DeWolf: And here's a little ASMR for you, Anna Crack.

[56:55] Jesse McAnally: Enjoy that. Um, this show is edited by R Andrew DeWolf, and he does a fantastic job. Uh myself. Um, thank you to the Broadway Podcast Network for having us on the platform and for not kicking us off for you know having critiques about Kimberly Akimbo, the Lord Savior of Broadway.

[57:12] Andrew DeWolf: Alright, is there anything else you have left to say, Andrew?

[57:14] Jesse McAnally: Um, I have seen the world in all the wonders from the startanels to the mountains of Peru.

[57:23] Andrew DeWolf: But there's no place for Jersey.

[57:29] Jesse McAnally: No, there's no place. Look, Jersey. You are young. Life has been kind to you.

[57:37] Andrew DeWolf: I'm Kimberly Akimbo.

[57:41] Jesse McAnally: I'm 16 and old.

[57:43] Andrew DeWolf: I'm 16 years old, but I'm also very old.

[57:50] Jesse McAnally: I'll see you next time on Musicals with Cheese.

[58:01] Andrew DeWolf: I like the way you see the world. I like your point of view. A little sly, a little strange, a little bit askew. I like the way you look in life and think outside the box. A little odd, a little off, a bit of north the ducks. I like your point of view.