This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:05] Jesse McAnally: Hello, I'm Jesse McAnally.

[0:07] Andrew DeWolf: And I'm Andrew DeWolf.

[0:08] Jesse McAnally: And welcome to Musicals with Cheese, a podcast where I try to get Andrew to like musical theater week by week, show by show. And today we have an extra special returning guest!

[0:15] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, you guys know her!

[0:16] Jesse McAnally: Do I even need to read the multi-hyphenate at this point? We got actress, podcaster, host of the Tell Me Mama Sunday podcast, and just one of our favorite human beings alive. It's Grace Aki!

[0:26] Grace Aki: Hello!

[0:30] Jesse McAnally: Oh, so lovely to be back at the Cheese.

[0:34] Andrew DeWolf: It really is. We— it hasn't been that long this time.

[0:36] Jesse McAnally: No, it was— there was like a two-year break, and then we only had a couple month breaks.

[0:41] Andrew DeWolf: What even happened to me in that two years?

[0:43] Jesse McAnally: Um, what was the last show that we covered?

[0:45] Andrew DeWolf: Mr. Saturday Night.

[0:46] Jesse McAnally: Oh hell yeah. I was just talking about that. I just saw Billy Crystal at the United Palace Theater where the Tonys were held, and he was doing an introduction with Mark Shaman of When Harry Met Sally fame and also nominated. But it was great to see him, and he was still talking about Mr. Saturday Night, and he did a 92Y the next night talking about it with Bette Midler.

[1:09] Andrew DeWolf: So it's out there, folks. He's still kicking it.

[1:13] Jesse McAnally: I mean, maybe we'll get a revival. Mr. Everyday.

[1:18] Jesse McAnally: Um, Grace, I feel we've talked about this in our last episode, but you do really run the gamut of things we talk about when you come on. It's not like others where like Brent, you kind of get why we're talking about this with Brent specifically.

[1:34] Andrew DeWolf: Brent has a genre that he likes to talk about.

[1:34] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, it's usually comedic musicals. With you, it's like there's no connective tissue between any of them, and they're just— it's like our show.

[1:44] Grace Aki: Please bring yourself.

[1:45] Jesse McAnally: Damn.

[1:47] Andrew DeWolf: No, no, no, no branding is good.

[1:49] Jesse McAnally: That's the— no, that fits us. No branding is the branding.

[1:52] Grace Aki: This is what happens when you have bipolar two disorder. You really can't just go anywhere you want.

[1:58] Jesse McAnally: Well, we're leaving the Catskills and going to Florence here, Italy, because this week we are talking about The Light in the Piazza.

[2:06] Jesse McAnally: Cue the music.

[2:08] Grace Aki: Tiny sweet.

[2:10] Jesse McAnally: And then it grows.

[2:12] Grace Aki: And then it fails there.

[2:18] Jesse McAnally: Who knows what you call it?

[2:21] Grace Aki: I don't care.

[2:26] Jesse McAnally: Out of somewhere.

[2:28] Grace Aki: I have something I have no.

[2:34] Jesse McAnally: And sound is happy.

[2:39] Grace Aki: That's all I say.

[2:41] Jesse McAnally: Alright, The Light in the Piazza is a musical written by Craig Lucas with music and lyrics by Adam Guettel's. Based on The Light in the Piazza by Elizabeth Spencer. After 36 previews, the Broadway production opened April 18th, 2005 at the Vivian Beaumont Theater in Lincoln Center, where it ran for 504 performances and closed July 2nd, 2006.

[3:01] Andrew DeWolf: We're cut off on that anniversary. Look at that.

[3:05] Jesse McAnally: The plot of the show is a North Carolina mother and daughter with a secret visit Florence in the 1950s, where the daughter falls in love with a local young man against the mother's wishes.

[3:15] Andrew DeWolf: The musical adaptation of whatever.

[3:19] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, I want to get into this show. This is another— like I think the trait for this summer, it's gonna be the summer of long requested musicals for us. We get— we did Newsies, we just did The Fantasticks, and now comes The Light in the Piazza, one of the most coveted shows ever. And just recently had an encore performance, and that had a brand new take on the story that I think is interesting and different, but still the story is a story.

[3:36] Andrew DeWolf: And, Jess, what did you think of The Light in the Piazza? You— and for context, you watched a winter pro shot that aired on PBS. There's a whole lot of extra special features in that as well.

[4:00] Andrew DeWolf: So I gotta— I got all the insight about how they have to run around backstage and whatever.

[4:06] Andrew DeWolf: Oh man, I didn't know what to expect. And I guess just right off, I kind of liked it. I think that the music is really good. I love the two languages thing going on. Um, I really like a lot of the stuff with the Italian family. Um, there's the weird— I still don't know how to feel about— and I'm still like thinking about it. So I'm hoping honestly this episode will help me think through that.

[4:32] Grace Aki: We can tell you how to feel. One— tell me how to feel.

[4:35] Andrew DeWolf: I appreciate that. But I think overall it was pretty good. I actually really enjoyed it.

[4:41] Jesse McAnally: And watch it. Grace, what has been your history with The Light in the Piazza?

[4:47] Grace Aki: So my first experience with The Light in the Piazza was because a voice teacher gave me the vocal selections book because it was kind of like a perfect— like I was, you know, 18, like ending high school, going into school, um, college and whatnot. And um, she recommended me singing The Light in the Piazza for my like soprano aria moment. And first of all, I crushed. And then everyone was like, well, there will never be like an Asian American Clara, so fucking forget it. And now look at 'em.

[5:18] Jesse McAnally: Look at 'em.

[5:19] Grace Aki: Um, but so yeah, I— that was my first experience was listening to the vocal selections and listening to the cast recording, and it was so beautiful that it's one of the few times where I've just listened to the cast recording and thought, I really love this. I don't wish to know anything else about the show. And so my experience has always been understanding the gorgeous score and the gorgeous music, and not the gorgeous text that— of, you know, the book that it's based on or the show itself. I'd never seen a professional production of it until the Encores production just now with Ruthie Ann Miles.

[5:57] Jesse McAnally: So, fascinating turn of events for me the morning of because— can I spoil a bit? Is that okay?

[6:05] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, go for it.

[6:06] Grace Aki: Yeah, go ahead. The morning that I'm going to see The Light in the Piazza, my partner F looks at me and says, oh, you're about to go see that musical about the girl that gets kicked in the head by a horse. And I said, what are you talking about?

[6:16] Andrew DeWolf: What?

[6:20] Grace Aki: And then they were like, that's the horse girl musical, right? And I was like, what? And they also have never seen it, but they know that very distinct detail. And I was like, did you just ruin the entire plot in one sentence of The Light in the Piazza? And they were like, oh no. And I got there and I was like, motherfucker. Like as soon as— oh, what a reveal. Just moments before I'd gone 30 years of my life without knowing the plot of this thing, only to have it revealed as I'm walking out the door with tickets in hand.

[6:52] Andrew DeWolf: So, um, yeah, it was— it was ruined, but it was not ruined on stage because wow, wow, was it so breathtaking?

[7:02] Jesse McAnally: I mean, I can only imagine.

[7:04] Grace Aki: Um, it's a reveal. I mean, oh, and they ruined it.

[7:07] Andrew DeWolf: It happens twice.

[7:08] Grace Aki: In act one, there's like a moment where the mother, Margaret, identifies this, and then in act two, it's almost the expository, but served up in a way to make it seem like it's gonna be something else.

[7:23] Andrew DeWolf: So it's like just so you know, when Clara was 12, we were out at the stables, and her pony kicked her square on the nugget. And then in act two, she's like, and I'm like, okay, come on. You know, I thought it was gonna be like in the horse, her father. Like, I don't— you know, what's the reveal here, uh, the second time? Uh, but I guess it's just, uh, you know, that is the big kind of, um, game changer, I guess, that people feel is the point of the plot. And very, um, biggest plot point is, you know, the mother's, you know, battle with like being relevant, her marriage and being away from home and like being an immigrant in a place and that type of thing, but it's mainly that horse kick is really getting most of the gravitas there.

[8:14] Andrew DeWolf: I think it's what people remember, like F is supposed to be funny.

[8:17] Grace Aki: No, not at all.

[8:18] Andrew DeWolf: Is it a joke?

[8:20] Grace Aki: No, um, it's such a weird thing though, like it could have been a lot of stuff, and they decided it had to be the horse kick.

[8:28] Grace Aki: Well, I think it's something that is not a physical, um, like visual disability that like someone would be able to see, um, and it kind of gives them— I’m assuming from like a, you know, a writing perspective of like on first glance, you would not know that this person has a disability. But like if it's like someone getting knocked out of a place or something like that, like there's a brain trauma situation. She references a scar on her head from a surgery, but doesn't identify what happened or what it was. So that's the only time there's ever kind of like— it kind of gives them free will to cast anyone in this role, and not someone who actually deals with a physical disability like on a daily basis, if that makes sense.

[9:19] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, in the original production, it feels much more like they're trying to spoof the manic pixie dream girl kind of callously.

[9:28] Grace Aki: Is that the feeling that anyone else gets where it's like they are too pent up on the reveal and playing it two ways that they kind of forget like maybe what the messaging of that reveal might be?

[9:39] Andrew DeWolf: It's hard to say. I don't mean to throw such a loaded question out there, but for me it feels maybe the casting specifically, like, and there was the whole casting bruhaha that happened with Celia Keenan-Bolger and Kelly O'Hara. Um, you know all about that, Grace, I'm sure, probably better than I do, but um, where Kelly O'Hara was originally cast as Franca, and then when they moved from out of town to Broadway, they kicked Celia Keenan-Bolger out and then replaced her with Kelly O'Hara.

[10:10] Grace Aki: I mean, I'm not sure if there was ever a proper explanation of why that happened.

[10:15] Andrew DeWolf: No, but even so, like Steven Pasquale was playing Fabrizio, and then on Broadway it was Matthew Morrison. I mean, obviously, they needed Will Schuster energy, they needed the energy of a white.

[10:28] Grace Aki: I can tell you rock, I can tell by your charm from his girls, you gotta frock.

[10:28] Andrew DeWolf: I can tell by your charm and your arm, but I'm looking for the one. Have you seen her?

[10:37] Grace Aki: He was a hot Broadway commodity. I mean, he was what— not Corney Collins, but Link Larkin in Hairspray.

[10:45] Andrew DeWolf: Um, he did this one. It's just that distinct jawline, um, of Broadway.

[10:52] Grace Aki: I would meant to play the Grinch, is what I was thinking.

[10:55] Andrew DeWolf: Listen, the Grinch, Captain Hook, famously well, yeah, Matt Morrison for sure.

[11:01] Grace Aki: Um, Steve Pasquale is always in the horniest Broadway shows. I've just decided that he is allowed to, and he can and he should, honestly.

[11:11] Andrew DeWolf: It's hot.

[11:11] Grace Aki: Um, he's definitely the horniest Billy Bigelow there ever was. I mean, Bridges of Madison County alone. Like, name one show where he doesn't bang somebody before act two.

[11:22] Andrew DeWolf: Um, Blues Clues, the musical.

[11:25] Grace Aki: Um, that he's in the Blues Clues movie. His wife's in there, so maybe he banged her, but I don't know.

[11:32] Andrew DeWolf: Um, but that's a movie. That's not a real musical movie.

[11:36] Grace Aki: Yeah, I guess.

[11:36] Andrew DeWolf: Um, but Steve Pasquale, um, he's wonderful. Like, but oh, but he was doing Rescue Me on TV, so that's why he bowed out of the stage production, and then um, they got— they got Matt Morrison. But yeah, so and— and they flarked it as well for even Lazarus, blonde sopranos of Broadway.

[11:57] Grace Aki: Yeah, but Celia Keenan-Bolger is a very different choice for Clara than Kelly O'Hara.

[12:03] Andrew DeWolf: Like I agree.

[12:04] Grace Aki: I wonder if that was— I again truly speculation. This is not an insider bit at all, but I wonder if they were leaning more into the um, the like operatic nature of it all versus like sealed youthful authenticity and energy. And obviously a beautiful voice, so that's not me like saying one thing or the other. But Kelly definitely lends herself more to that kind of like aria sense.

[12:30] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, vocally, yes, I agree with that. But I also feel like Celia Keenan-Bolger— and this is just my opinion of how they're portrayed in stage. She tends to get infantilized a lot on stage. Um, and has that very like specifically— like when she's playing Scout in To Kill a Mockingbird, when she's in Spelling Bee. Like they really try to amp up her kid features, and maybe they wanted— and maybe they thought that was kind of hurting them when it gets to the twist, and they wanted someone that felt more like, uh, like surprise, she's 28.

[13:02] Grace Aki: Yeah, yeah.

[13:04] Andrew DeWolf: You know what I mean? Um, I don't know. I find that aspect of the casting interesting, but I want to hear about this new production um that you just saw and what changes they made. Because um, there's things I love about it, like the casting, but man, that Broadway version and those sets and that lighting scheme, my god.

[13:24] Grace Aki: You're talking about the City Center Encores.

[13:28] Grace Aki: So what's interesting is the casting decision to have Ruthie Ann Miles um was announced, I think last year, and as soon as they announced her, everybody on Twitter was like— which is kind of like unfortunate that everyone was like, oh, so this is an Asian version of the show. It's someone just existing in a role does not equate like it being set in a different country. You know, I think that that was just so— what's great is they cast two actors specifically, and then some more of the cast was also multiracial, um, in a sense, but they created that, right, and then also had an Asian male director, and all of a sudden, without making any tweaks to anything, like the book or the score or anything like that, as a person with also an Asian mother named Margaret, also from the South.

[14:34] Grace Aki: I started bawling the second that I saw it, you know what I mean? Because I was like, God, they didn't change anything, and yet I am seeing this with like a different perspective. But there could be people here that there's nothing different for them, and that's also great. It did and it didn't. They didn't need to overhaul anything, but still people felt seen. Like they opened, I was at the final dress rehearsal before the weekend opened because we couldn't get tickets, everybody was gone. It was private. And I was fortunate to get a seat with a friend from Broadway Plus. They tweeted, New York City Center tweeted, if you're Asian American and you have been dying to see the show, please DM us.

We'd like to get you into the final dress. And so there was like a sea of Asian American people sitting above me, and I look back a couple of times and you just saw like tears, and I'm like, it just doesn't happen where people see themselves like this in a full way, not where it's just one character that you never thought this character would be this. It's like a mother and daughter combo, which is a thing, and then taking place in a different country where they're like not 100% like they don't know the language, but it's not like a joke that they don't know the language, it's part of the story. It was just really cool, and I thought this isn't the only time this is gonna happen. I think that we can do this for a whole host of shows, and it doesn't change the plot.

I mean, it does and it doesn't, it doesn't change the plot, and yet it does like give you a new perspective on how to see people in the world that they aren't just like the one monolith, but it was beautiful, and the fact that that cast also was hella talented. It was some of the most gorgeous singing. I mean, like, listen, we've all heard the cast recording, and we've all heard videos of other people singing it, and Callie O'Hare is fantastic, and Victoria Clark is fantastic, and everyone, you know, Renee Day, like everyone that's ever touched this is a gorgeous singer. You cannot do this show if you're like meh. Because then what are you left with? Kicking the head and the applause. You know, I mean, you gotta be a vocalist.

And so, you know, you've got this young actor, and now I need to find her name right now because it's escaping me for this moment, who's playing Clara, who was a Jimmy Awards winner. It's Anna Zavelson. Zavelson. Yes, yes, it's yes, Anna. When she started singing The Light in the Piazza, you could have heard a pin drop. I mean, the shivers. I was like, this girl is a star, the world is open to her. I think she's like a freshman at Michigan, and of course she is, you know. But she's great, and Ruthie is just so powerful. And seeing that woman, knowing what we know, and for anybody listening, please look into the unfortunate tragedy that has happened to Ruth Ann Miles and her family and her children.

She lost a child in a car accident. She was with her children, and I'm not gonna try to paraphrase it because it's a true travesty. And you can look into that, and I don't wanna, you know, hurt anyone today with that without a trigger warning, but all this to say, seeing this woman about wanting to protect her daughter in this way, knowing what we know about Ruthie as a human person, and that backstory was both devastating, validating, and one of the most beautiful, true, honest, like actor moments that I've seen in like a long time. And I truly hope again, she's playing Beggar Woman in Sweeney Todd. Again, a woman who has theoretically lost her child, and you know, I hope that she is not pigeonholed into these roles because I know that she's such a dynamic person and performer and should be able to do whatever the hell she wants because she's so talented.

But seeing her in this role, it just hits different. So you had multiple things firing on all cylinders. You had Clint Ramos's studio artistic vision and creative input on the sets and the costumes and all of it tied together, it's a perfect Encore show. You know, there's some flaws in the writing of it, which I'm sure we're gonna talk to in a second. But if you look at Encores and what it's meant to do, which is showcase a work that probably will not have a Broadway revival anytime soon, if at all, it does the job. I wanted to see a fucking concert. I don't need you to do the whole thing. I just, you know, so that's what it was.

[19:13] Jesse McAnally: That is such a beautiful summation, and it makes me wish I could see this. I honestly wish it would get recorded in some form. Sometimes Encores get albums of some sort. That would be wonderful for this specific one, and I would love to hear it. But I guess we kinda have to unpack the actual show a bit now, which we talk vaguely about the kick in the head plot twist, where we have Clara who is this appearing free-spirited, kind of goofy, absent-minded girl, and then almost as a gotcha to the audience, it reveals that she was kicked in the head by a pony at her birthday, and since then has developmental disabilities to which her mother thinks is so catastrophic to her having a real life that she's refusing to let her live her life.

And it has a strangely eugenics bent to it, especially with both the parents talking about like they can't raise children, and things like that, and it feels really kinda iffy and gross and a little ableist, but does that mean the score and visuals and all that aren't pretty and wonderful to hear? I think the twist works and it doesn't for me. Narratively, like you're being a little clever, but also the cleverness is negating your characterization and really reductive. Maybe that's just my opinion on it.

[20:44] Grace Aki: Can I be even more reductive to what you just said?

[20:47] Jesse McAnally: You can.

[20:48] Grace Aki: You know, when you're talking to somebody and then they tell you like the biggest thing to ever happen to them, and you're like, that's not that big of a deal.

[20:57] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[20:59] Grace Aki: Like you know what I mean, where you're like, and unfortunately it doesn't take away like that was a really impactful thing to that person.

[21:07] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[21:08] Grace Aki: But listening to it as like someone consuming that information, you're kinda like, oh, oh, okay, I mean, that's cool. Like I accept that about you. And they're like, no, no, no. It changed my life. And you're like, oh, we're different. I think that that's how that information gets taken in. You're just kind of like, yeah. That's an unfortunate thing to happen to you. I still am interested in you as a human. You're more but you can't be 26. But and you're more than that. Like, that's okay. Like shit happens. But it's just it's such a, it's just like this is the thing, and it consumes the mother's life. And that's just unfortunate because she just has kind of decided. I don't know. Yeah. It just it feels like the whole thing and this I guess this is the story, but the mother is like obsessive about the daughter in a weird way where it doesn't even feel warranted because she doesn't act.

Like the daughter doesn't act as though there's anything really wrong. I mean, she's a little bit like absent-minded, I suppose, but I don't know. Are we supposed to take that there is something really actually wrong with the daughter, or is this just we're supposed to see that the mother is kind of projecting this onto her?

[22:21] Jesse McAnally: I don't think it's like what's the Hulu show that's based on a true story that the mother kind of like makes up an illness for the daughter and then the mother—

[22:30] Grace Aki: It's like Munchausen by proxy or something.

[22:32] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, that's exactly it. I don't think that's what this is. I think that it's people treading too lightly of and rightfully so, probably, to not offend any one person that actually has like an affliction from some horrible thing that happens to them. I also think that because of that, we as an audience are not given much to adhere to to see. Like, and again, it's for we should not be putting that on a person. So it's I think it's challenging. I think you're kind of screwed either way.

[23:09] Grace Aki: Yeah, because you could be really offensive if you show something real and then are like these people shouldn't have kids. You know, it's like film Sing if you want to know the wrong way to do this.

[23:23] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[23:24] Grace Aki: But then there this is the other side of that where it's like, well is there even anything wrong? I can't like because I thought the mother was just kind of saying stuff honestly and just like projecting it because it's like so subtle. As far as literary analysis they're trying to do something like Laura and the Glass Menagerie where the actor has something to play and perform and that's an like that's kind of the vibe I think they're trying to do dramaturgically.

[23:52] Jesse McAnally: I know. I feel like that's not a coincidence now. Poor Celia out here just give her some joy damn that's why I love her in Spelling Bee so much. I actually think there's a really good aspect of this beyond the kick in the head thing of kind of an immigrant story in a way even though it's not really just like the language barrier aspect of it is really interesting and played really well and the other family like that's trying to convince like I don't know there's that whole aspect of it is really well done. And I almost feel like there's a version of this without the kick in the head thing at all that would work just fine.

[24:36] Grace Aki: I don't disagree.

[24:37] Jesse McAnally: Like the romantic barrier between them, which is the language barrier and the cultural barrier and the different feelings, is enough. And we strangely have the musical theater breakdown where we kind of have the secondary couple and the B couple and the third couple, where you got the elderly couple, the mother and his father. Which is weird. I don't know if it's romance, definitely something going on there. Like the other children's wedding day. The tension is insane. I was wondering if they were gonna go there or not.

[25:15] Grace Aki: That would have been interesting.

[25:15] Jesse McAnally: Like I’m imagining an alternate end to act two where you have Clara walking in on her new father-in-law just as she walked in on her at the end of act one, and that's how the show ends.

[25:29] Grace Aki: Is it inappropriate to do a double wedding?

[25:32] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, it's it'll become weirdly ancestral by the end of that night.

[25:39] Grace Aki: Um yeah, it's everything is sexier in Italy. I think that's the that's actually what we're trying to get at.

[25:47] Jesse McAnally: Everything hats, they're flying off. The panties, they're coming off. Like it's truly it's the hottest place. I I've never been. I would love to go there and figure out how horny it really is.

[26:03] Grace Aki: It's pretty horny.

[26:04] Jesse McAnally: I'll take your word for it.

[26:09] Grace Aki: In his Grinch costume that he has not left since 2020.

[26:13] Jesse McAnally: He will fucking horny it is.

[26:16] Grace Aki: Oh god, Matthew Morrison, you are the worst of us and the best of us. Um I don't Grace, I don't think you know this story, but my it's great Emily Clark's story, but she saw a parade in the round there, and she which means you can see right across the audience, so she's looking dead at Matthew Morrison, who fell asleep through act one, then act two in a role, and he starts like beatboxing along with them during it. Like it's class, Mr. And it was like right before Glee, like right after this, right before Glee. And now, whenever I think of Matt Morrison, that is what I think of is him beatboxing to Parade. The most beatboxable musical on the planet.

[27:00] Jesse McAnally: Um, well, how about we compare our opinions to those of Big Theater Critic? Uh Ben Brantley when this show first released.

[27:11] Grace Aki: Oh my gosh.

[27:12] Jesse McAnally: Um he's always here. You know every episode.

[27:18] Grace Aki: It's time for previews.

[27:23] Jesse McAnally: It's time for previews. So in the New York Times, on April 19th, 2005, Ben Brantley wrote.

[27:33] Grace Aki: Alright.

[27:34] Jesse McAnally: What is this intro? And now this bulletin from the arid planet of Broadway. Rumors have been confirmed that a real human being has materialized in a mainstream musical, an environment that has become increasingly hostile to such life forms.

[27:50] Grace Aki: What the fuck are you talking about, Ben Brantley?

[27:53] Jesse McAnally: This is a that is the intro. That's a full paragraph.

[27:59] Grace Aki: No, that's good, that's good.

[28:00] Jesse McAnally: Okay, I understand where he's coming from here. This unexpected creature of the species American abroad, and named Miss Margaret Johnson appears in The Light in the Piazza. Adam Guettel's and Craig Lucas's ambitious and discouragingly unfulfilled new show, which opened last night at the Vivian. Whatever problems there may be with this production, which reaches for the sky with short if well-shaped arms. I mean, what came out? What was big on Broadway in 2005? What else was coming out?

[28:44] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, Shrek the Musical.

[28:46] Jesse McAnally: No, that was a few years later. Um, I have no idea. Man, what okay? I'm looking at 2006. Um, oh yeah, that was the Yeah, that was not a great year. Um, Dirty Rotten Scoundrels, Light in the Piazza, Spamalot, and Spelling Bee. So Spamalot won that year.

[29:02] Andrew DeWolf: Um, yes, strangely.

[29:04] Jesse McAnally: Well, it was a box office sensation. Like, yes, but it's interesting, right? Like, yeah, you're looking at existing IP, and this is somewhat unfamiliar, even though it's based on a book. People feel as though it's really original. The same way, like Sondheim, you know, people would be like, Why don't we have original musicals anymore? And I'm like, half of Sondheim, more than half of Sondheim's work is based on an existing IP. You just weren't familiar, so you think he came up with it. Like, it's okay to be something, but yeah, you had a lot of, and we're still dealing with like post 9/11 New York City, where they're wanting so badly to get those tourists. So it's not going to be compared the same as like a body of work versus like other shows that are trying to bring people in.

This is like the mammoths of it all. Drowsy Chaperone, a comedy. Like, oh no, that wasn't that year. What else was that year? Um, you have Spelling Bee, which is a kind of comedy, but small, intimate. Um yeah, and Piazza, which is probably like the most dramatic out of all of them. So it's still palatable, but it's Italy. It's Arya's. It's like, you know, it's yeah. Oh, that was also the year of Sutton Foster breaking in with the Little Women musical. Alright. Astonishing. But keep going.

[30:26] Grace Aki: So Ben Brantley goes on.

[30:29] Jesse McAnally: Yes.

[30:30] Grace Aki: Do we keep reading?

[30:31] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, I keep reading.

[30:32] Grace Aki: Okay. Most troubling is the characterization of Clara, whose mental development was arrested when she was kicked in the head.

[30:40] Jesse McAnally: You're just spoiling it right here when she was kicked in the head by a pony when she was 10.

[30:45] Grace Aki: Was it 10 or 12? I feel like someone said 12 earlier.

[30:48] Jesse McAnally: Um Ben.

[30:53] Grace Aki: Ben Brantley spoils the whole fucking thing right in his review.

[31:00] Jesse McAnally: Okay. I don't know. But I mean, is he trying to say that the characterization doesn't make that much sense? Because like I think what he's saying, that's incorrect assumption of what the problem is. I think the problem is a disconnect between the book and the songs, which I do understand. Um, where I think Adam Guettel's wrote a little bit of a different characterization for Clara when she's singing versus when she is speaking and acting. Because I feel like she's very consistent in the book. Like, sincerely, I feel like that is a very consistent characterization of her. When we get to I forget what it's called, like Clara's um outburst, Clara's Harry Raid, that is the only time where it's kind of close as far as her singing pieces to like how she speaks and talks. Really the whole rest of this is just him phrasing the actors played Margaret Johnson, I think.

[32:04] Andrew DeWolf: Victoria Clark?

[32:06] Grace Aki: Yeah. Yes. Huge. Especially off of the Titanic fame. I think it's so it's challenging because I never saw the original production. And again, I do agree with you. It starts to feel really exhausting when things are being compared to what else is on the street. Um I noticed this recently with another Broadway review for a show. Uh that Once Upon a One More Time, where like the show is also being like, and when you've got this and this, there's and I'm like, can we just do the piece? Can we just, you know, but it's hard to not think about what else is out there. Like we were literally just talking about, right? Um I just I find it interesting, and also you kind of put in perspective of like the time of it all.

Like, I'm surprised, but I'm also not, I do agree that like it but I also think that's like a story problem and not like the musicals problem. I think that like it all goes back to what we were saying about like the thesis of the thing, of the book, of the existing like work, is that like if I were writing this as an original piece, like if Adam and like who I forget, um, if they're out here doing their own work, I bet you in the out of town they would have cut that part. You know what I mean? And I think that you could still have a story about two people that just went to Italy and a mom that's like, I'm not ready to let my baby out of the nest. I don't think there's anything wrong with that plot.

It would have even been more powerful just because that's a more relatable situation. Whereas I got kicked in a horse and my mom's really attached. We've all been to Italy and banged a dude. Like all of us.

[33:53] Jesse McAnally: Well, we're talking about Ben Brantley a lot, but I think we gotta compare our opinions to those of true theater critics or true critics altogether, and that is uh The Brilliant Minds over at letterbox.com. It's time for the letterbox game. One star five stars. There is a movie for this, apparently.

[34:13] Grace Aki: There is um no one saw it on Letterboxd, um sincerely.

[34:22] Jesse McAnally: And George Hamilton of TV fame stars as Fabrizio. It's like actually a star-studded cast in this film, which is fascinating. Okay, so you think they shoot the scene where she gets kicked? Do you think that's like a flashback?

[34:35] Grace Aki: I don't think I hope. I we should. You know what? For Patreon, we should all watch this movie. This would be a great time for all three of us.

[34:45] Jesse McAnally: It has like seven stars. Well, if you also go on Patreon, you'll get our reaction to the Colleen Ballinger apology.

[34:57] Grace Aki: Actually, true. That is actually the truth. If you're on Patreon, you will see that. Um But um I did most of the reviews for that film were just kind of like, why would they make a musical out of this? Or wouldn't it be great if they made a musical out of this? And I'm like, that's that's not that's not helpful for what I'm doing here. No, I will say it 100% makes sense why they made a musical out of this. Like on paper, that book, like that someone just grasping at like uh, you know, a well-sold novella, picking this up as a story, it absolutely writes itself as a musical. Like Adam Guettel, Craig Lucas, they were smart up. I just think that if they were originating this story, if it came out of the corners of their mind, I think that you would have seen in and out of town in workshops on Broadway and whatnot, that that piece of that puzzle doesn't work.

I would hope they would, right? But you can't divorce yourself from that integral part of the story if you're finally presenting it on stage, because the people that probably gave you the rights to that don't allow you to make that big of an adjustment unless it's to Kill a Mockingbird, and unless you know you're out here just taking a plot and changing it up and changing the whole wait a second, hold up, hold up. What did they do with the biggest thing? Wait, wait, I need to know this. I literally did no looking into the commit to Kill a Mockingbird show. What did what did Sorkin do?

[36:19] Grace Aki: I mean, it was vastly rewritten from the book, so much so that there was a lawsuit with Harper Lee on her deathbed, and that show was not licensed until she died. That's why it took so long. She did not give her consent to the story that they were writing based on her book because it was so different, and then that's why it got produced after she died.

[36:41] Jesse McAnally: What was so different about it?

[36:42] Grace Aki: Like, if it's a few, it was all for the perspective of Atticus and not Scout. It was all of it, you know who needed whose story needs to be told? An adult white man. I've been saying this for years. Considering Harper Lee's own interpretation of Atticus and go to Go Set a Watchman, or where he is very much a racist man who is much more real to like how most people would actually probably be from that time.

[37:07] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[37:08] Grace Aki: It's not so much a white savior. And I think that the reason that it's written in the way that it is is because that is how a child would see her father. It is not, in my opinion, and I'm sure that there are others, so I'm not, you know, discrediting any of them. Um, because mine's from you know my own perspective. It 100% makes sense that she's like, my dad's doing everything right. Like, he's perfect. He is saving the people of this town. He is the most understanding and like teaches me about race, and like obviously, like getting older, you're like, hold on, this is a fully fledged human being, and like maybe people aren't all one, and even people that you perceive to be non-racist, like still um have unconscious bias. Like, what are you talking about? It's you know, it's it's almost fitting that they change the perspective because now it's it's us being told that he's perfect. He did a great thing, and oh, I did do this great thing. Look at me.

[38:01] Jesse McAnally: We can't reconcile with the fact that he might have been flawed.

[38:05] Grace Aki: I'm such a good father.

[38:06] Jesse McAnally: Alright, we gotta look at these fucking reviews now. We were actually having a decent conversation. Now we gotta go back to our fucking podcast bullshitter letterboxed garbage. What did you dig out of the fucking cesspit this time, Jess?

[38:22] Grace Aki: Jesse, why don't you go first?

[38:24] Jesse McAnally: With what?

[38:25] Grace Aki: Yeah, I'm gonna read you a real life letterbox review, and you have to tell me whether it's a good one.

[38:30] Jesse McAnally: I was like, am I sponsoring these?

[38:34] Grace Aki: I thought the same thing. I'm like, what do you mean you just go first?

[38:37] Jesse McAnally: What do you mean?

[38:39] Grace Aki: Um go off.

[38:40] Jesse McAnally: Well okay.

[38:42] Grace Aki: Okay. Alright. Stick your hand in the septic tank, see what you pull out. Every day I thank God someone who's not Matthew Morrison is playing Fabrizio here.

[38:56] Jesse McAnally: Is this a true or false? It is one star or five star.

[39:00] Grace Aki: Oh my god. Three stars.

[39:03] Jesse McAnally: One star. It can only be one of the two.

[39:08] Grace Aki: It's gonna be one of the two. It's not, it's nothing in between.

[39:11] Jesse McAnally: So it's one.

[39:12] Grace Aki: You say one?

[39:14] Jesse McAnally: It was a five star. They were very happy Matthew Morrison was not present.

[39:20] Grace Aki: Oh.

[39:20] Jesse McAnally: Okay, intense. Alright, Andrew, you're next.

[39:24] Andrew DeWolf: Okay. Clara Johnson marry me!

[39:30] Jesse McAnally: I tried to enunciate the capitalizations.

[39:35] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. This is a person who's very interested in.

[39:42] Jesse McAnally: I'm gonna go five because usually people that get this passionate about their waifus, you know.

[39:48] Grace Aki: That is correct.

[39:51] Andrew DeWolf: Alright, Grace. Next one.

[39:55] Grace Aki: Very charming. Heart.

[40:00] Andrew DeWolf: Heart star emoji?

[40:03] Grace Aki: Five stars.

[40:04] Andrew DeWolf: The one star.

[40:05] Grace Aki: I was very confused, but is that someone just being sassy and saying something like that?

[40:11] Jesse McAnally: Who knows? You never know what these star emoji.

[40:15] Grace Aki: It's like the little shooting star.

[40:17] Andrew DeWolf: The shooting star.

[40:18] Grace Aki: The shooting star.

[40:19] Jesse McAnally: Oh, if you had said shooting star, I would have said one.

[40:22] Grace Aki: Why?

[40:23] Jesse McAnally: Because the shooting star is kind of like bullshit.

[40:26] Grace Aki: Oh.

[40:27] Jesse McAnally: Okay. I'm learning how to tweet the emoji uh ecosystem apparently.

[40:34] Grace Aki: I've never seen it.

[40:35] Andrew DeWolf: I did see Emoji Land, yeah.

[40:38] Grace Aki: Toronto for stars I know though. For its pro shot um that might never get released.

[40:42] Andrew DeWolf: So but I was in the audience when the We'll see if it ever comes out. They did good. They were really gotten to tour instead of just doing one performance.

[40:50] Grace Aki: Um Emoji Land.

[40:52] Jesse McAnally: Um alright. Um Andrew.

[40:56] Andrew DeWolf: Why would you make a whole musical out of this?

[41:00] Grace Aki: Uh well and Grace, the last one.

[41:06] Grace Aki: Well done melodrama.

[41:08] Andrew DeWolf: That's a one.

[41:09] Grace Aki: And that right now.

[41:16] Jesse McAnally: This was rigged.

[41:18] Andrew DeWolf: So rigged.

[41:18] Jesse McAnally: Oh my god. Andrew, anytime you lose, it's rigged against you. Anytime anyone else loses, it's rigged against them. There's no winning, is there? Jess rigs all the games.

[41:29] Grace Aki: It's like WWE.

[41:31] Jesse McAnally: That is my review of like the Piazza. It's like WWE. And how about we go into a mid-show and then we talk about some of these songs?

[41:45] Jesse McAnally: Hey guys, sorry to interrupt you in the middle of show, but we got a shh shh shit you buy our shit, give us money. Andrew, tell them about Patreon.

[41:50] Andrew DeWolf: Oh man, you go on Patreon, you give us money, and you can get extra content. We're really we got video episodes, we got commentary tracks, we got extra episodes, all sorts of nonsense.

[42:04] Jesse McAnally: Literally, every Grace episode we have like a little uh because just how it goes. Um, like our panty conversation about whether or not we always do this. It's always so dirty, girl guys. The police noises behind her for that sirens for the siren. Get me out of here. I'm sorry. Um but yeah, Grace is always a joy how we always go into the dirty territory with her. I think she gets like our scatological kind of bullshit humor, and it's like, yeah, I'll I'll have I'll play in the pig pen with these.

[42:38] Jesse McAnally: Okay, our current patrons. Uh I'm gonna do them as quick as I can. Don't fuck it up. Uh God, there's getting to be so fucking many though. We've almost filled out the three columns. We've we've had four columns before. We're in the red band. We're in the red.

[42:51] Andrew DeWolf: When do we have four columns?

[42:53] Jesse McAnally: I don't remember that.

[42:54] Andrew DeWolf: We've had four columns.

[42:55] Jesse McAnally: I do not remember that. Okay. Uh Melissa Goldman, Danielle Rennes, Pete, Ewan Cassidy, Mona, Red Black, Daniel Stacey Coombe, Joseph Evans Green, Mary Lou Choquette, John Van Alves, Russ Walker, Musical Hell, Emily Gracie, Kyle Summers, Janay C, Scoot and the Technical Dreamcoat, Liz Lim, Nothing is Certain Except Beth and Texas Desby and Jessica T. Mitchell, Katie McDonough, Chris Marcote, KG Marie Anastasio, Leela, RJ Noriga, Bjorn Herman's, Toriana Fraser, Sammy the Adequate Amount Jacobson, Liana Morton, Kaylee Blazier, Cinema Geddon Reviews, Villainous Miss, Sophina L. The Omega Geek, Paige Pearson, Matty Wargle, Eliza Erdman, Anna Loscatova, Sarah Den Blaker, Evan Ball, Zachary Torres, Rora Morasso, Mara Folloyne, Captain Rod Taskick, Lisa L, Nobody, Renee Thomas, Nick RO10, Puffy Boy, Summer, Julia Hardy, Jay Husia.

[43:50] Andrew DeWolf: Uhusia.

[43:52] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, Jay Cusia. Uh, Caitlin Bridgeman, Sidney Hicks, and Anna Bell. These motherfuckers give us money. Come join them and give us money too. Um, yeah, that's it. Um, also, a reminder from our patron, um, high tier patron, Monica Thoreau. Please get your annual eye exam and take care of your eyes. Um, they're an optometrist and would love it if you did that to yourselves. It's so crazy that we have actual doctors giving us money, um, and we're adding nothing positive to society. Um, speaking of that, let's get back to the show already in progress.

[44:37] Jesse McAnally: I really like the opening song, uh, "Statues and Stories." It sets up every one of our mean our two leads very, very beautifully and very, very economically. We know very much about them by the end of this song, and it sets up Florence as a location. It's like a character, it's like a Nora Ephron film where the uh New York is a character.

[45:01] Andrew DeWolf: What did I do? Mother, what happened here?

[45:07] Jesse McAnally: Well, let's see. On a central square in the city of the Sun Rosa Palace. It was high and handsome, gleaming like the crown of a king. Where would that be? Where is that? In the tower. A warning bell would ring. A kind of warning for a fire or river overflowing in lazy on a central square, the beginning of a kingdom republic. Was there a king? Was there a queen? And what Prince haters, nobleman of logic and art. Firenze. Leonardo Leonardo. Michael Angelo, the starch. That's a completely naked statue. Twas a dawning day on Furley.

[46:12] Jesse McAnally: But what do you think of this song, Grace?

[46:14] Grace Aki: I think it's pretty. And I think that I will say this. Getting to see it live, like with like the orchestra, it felt like I haven't heard an overture in a minute. Like it was just gorgeous. I think it sets it up beautifully. This show nailed its original score. They won a Tony, right? Um, there's there's a reason for it. They also uh won orchestrations, so it's no surprise to me that like the tone of the show is set with that opener. Um, and it's it's very evident the world to kind of visit, which is the 1960s in Italy, right?

[46:53] Jesse McAnally: Uh 50s, but yes.

[46:54] Grace Aki: They all listen, the skirts are big. Uh but yeah, they won costumes too. But um, yeah, you can tell that they understood, you know, trying to not trying to set this in a modern um musical sense, and that we're kind of transported back into that time. But it's no surprise to us, Adam Guettel's, Mother, Mary Rogers, like grandfather, which like it's it's kind of in the lineage, so it feels a little like perfect. Um, but yeah, it makes sense. I love it. I I love it. Uh I also love like the first lines being like, what happened here? Like every time that pops up on my shuffle, I'm like, well, I'm I'm on for a ride for a bit. Um yeah, I love this, but I I think the moment that I realized I was really gonna enjoy the show is um "Ilmondo era vietto," where I'm like, no subtitles, you're just gonna expect me to know this story based on how y'all are interacting.

[47:48] Grace Aki: By not speaking Italian, you don't miss anything. It's also because it's based on it's a it's a romance language, which is how most of our language is like you know, delegated, right? So there's never an opportunity. Like sometimes I was literally I'm such an ass hat. I was sitting there, and sometimes they would say something, and I'd be like, that sounds like Spanish, and it's like, well, no shit, Grace. It's all together.

[48:11] Andrew DeWolf: Spanish, yeah, yeah.

[48:14] Grace Aki: Yeah. Monsapego disentir mi solo. Pretty vocal de la vida. Clara, clara, clara, shame you'll call this in sucking monkava. And it's just such a beautiful number. What do you think, Andrew? Because I I throw you into the signal for the foreign language songs.

[48:53] Andrew DeWolf: I listen to a lot of songs that aren't in English, and I love that shit. I don't know. There's something about it when you can't understand it, it it almost makes it sound like you can focus more on the melody and just the music of it. I don't know. And you've liked every like foreign musical we've done, more or less. Um for the um you tend to like the Euro musicals.

[49:17] Grace Aki: I do. Can I tell you a haunting fact that is not based in science? Um there is a direct correlation for a lot of people who do not identify as musical theater lovers, like initially, with uh foreign films and musicals. There's something about it that clicks in more authentically. So it doesn't surprise me that that is something that you have enjoyed kind of across the board, uh, because you don't identify initially as a person who is just like, I love musical theater, all of it, you know. Um, I just think that that's interesting that it's also present here as well.

[49:53] Andrew DeWolf: There you go. I'm a statistic now.

[49:55] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, well, probably. Um, and also I I still am harping on this. It's some of the most impressive lighting of a set uh I've ever seen. Even in just that pro shot, um, I'm just watching the lights go by slowly on the ground. I'm like, oh, that's nice. That's real nice. It looks like a sky.

[50:18] Grace Aki: Well, it's also like so much of where they are in the in the text of the show are iconic places that you can't fuck up. Like you, if if if you're going to say we're outside of blank in Rome, or you're outside of like Michelangelo's, like that, like you can't you can't fit it because people know what it looks like and they know what the sun feels like when you're there. Like, there's all that warm yellow tone. It's also present in the key art. They really nailed all of the things that, like, without you know, throwing lemons onto the plate, you know, of of what it is supposed to feel like. I mean, listen, hell, right under the Tuscan Sun, the musical, Adam Guettel's. I'm saying it now. But um, yeah, it's it's clear that the warmth is there musically, tonally, through the light, and through the uh set design as well.

[51:10] Jesse McAnally: Um, Grace. Are there any specific songs in like act one that you really think you felt connected to or things that you love?

[51:16] Grace Aki: This one. Uh, "Dividing Day" uh is is probably the standout for me. I think that that's when we finally understand Margaret and where she's coming from.

[51:38] Grace Aki: Only there is something I don't recognize, though I can not name it yet. I know it. Beautiful is what you only somehow wearing a frightening disguise. I can see the winter in your eyes now, telling me thank you. We're done here. Not much to say. But I have had "Dividing Day." So when when was this day? And plot wise, remind us what's going on in the scene.

[52:33] Andrew DeWolf: Oh no. I'm gonna have to do homework right now.

[52:38] Grace Aki: You don't have to, we can just move on past.

[52:41] Grace Aki: No, I want to. I want to. Um, this is when she's kind of like back in her hotel room, and Margaret has kind of like just had that phone call where we get to know like her dynamic with her husband, and she's all alone. And like, in a sense, like her husband's very busy and he's doing business, and like she is kind of single parenting herself for the past ten. I mean, think about when this happens. Let's say she's Clara is 10 or 12, it doesn't matter. That's almost 15 years that she's still parenting her child in a way that she's still 10 years old. And I think you start to understand, like, she's incredibly lonely as an adult woman. She's caring for her child in a way that like no parent is equipped to. That that's when you're starting to kind of like contextualize yourself within her world and and like how she is trying to like find herself in her marriage and finding herself as a mother. And how that's literally dividing her her personalities in her day-to-day life.

[53:44] Grace Aki: I also I love this song as well. I feel like "Fable" overshadows it a lot, as far as most people thinking about Margaret in this musical. Because anyone that's quoting Margaret in this musical, they're thinking of "Fable," and they're yeah, they're pulling that one. Because it is the 11 o'clock, I'd even call it 12 o'clock number at that point. Um, it's what's sending us off, and it is like her basically saying it's the direct reaction to "Dividing Day" of saying, I now understand what love is and all this. And I I really I think they go hand in hand, but I feel like "Fable" tends to overshadow how good that song is. And then like literally, and you're starting to get all the bangers, right?

Like we're we've set up all the preamble, right? You get "Dividing Day," and you're like, okay, this is her. And then they do um "Say It Somehow," and you're like, what the fuck? Like it's um, and it I will say this was interesting. I know that in the Broadway production, it's very evident that like Margaret goes to the door and kind of like catches them.

[54:51] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[54:51] Grace Aki: It's very clear in the set that it's like a surprise to the audience. Like, and then you go to intermission. 100%. And Encores, there's a set, but kind of hardly. And so you just kind of see Margaret wandering around and then making her way back to their bedroom. You're kind of like, all that. Like so Andrew, the title song for "The Light in the Piazza" is a song also an actor called "Light in the Piazza." And get this The Horse Girl, she sings it. It's hot. It's warming hot. It's flying fun. Who knows what you want to do? It is there. All I want is tearing from side. I sing well.

[56:07] Andrew DeWolf: It's everyone.

[56:24] Grace Aki: I don't know. I like this. I don't have a ton to say about it. All the songs in this are very pretty. It has kind of this operatic kind of feel to it, the whole thing. And I just kind of like how they wrote the music, but I don't have any like strong feelings on the thing. What exactly is a though is my. That's what I'm wondering a little bit. Is it like a pizza with an extra A or Piazza?

[56:50] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, what is that? What is a is it something you physically see?

[56:54] Grace Aki: Yeah, it's a structure.

[56:55] Jesse McAnally: Whole piece.

[56:56] Grace Aki: Oh, okay. Yeah. Cause like, if you think about the whole like as a whole piece, right? The mother eventually like is revealing that like she is missing love from her life. Like she literally tells her husband on the phone, like, well, we're not like we've grown apart and we're not really in all that stuff. And she's like, at the end of the day, she wants her daughter, which is why she is okay with her getting married in her state. Because she's like, you have found love. Like you have some light beckoning you on it. Like, go towards it. Don't like take a step back and question yourself. Like, life is short and life can take turns. And you might, you know what I mean? So I think that that's really the whole kind of like overarching thesis of being like, and her repeating over and over, it is there, it is there. I think is how they're like hammering that home. And it's pretty. Like you the weak metaphors are built up on beautiful, beautiful music and a gorgeous vocalist.

[58:06] Jesse McAnally: It's not a weak metaphor, James. It means there's love in my heart.

[58:09] Grace Aki: I'm on genius lyrics, it's telling me Adam Guettel's's own notes.

[58:13] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, well, love in your heart is a common metaphor, so it's yeah, I it is. It is. I don't disagree. Um I guess the last one we really gotta talk about is fable, don't we?

[58:29] Grace Aki: You can look in the forest, for a secret field, for a golden, for a prince deal, for a fable of love that will last forever.

[58:48] Grace Aki: You can look in the ruins for a wishing well, for a magic for a chariot. To a moon on a hill, to a hidden stream on the moon and around the rise, set away from time forever, to a valley beyond the settings where water shines run where there's a man who looks for you.

[59:25] Jesse McAnally: We kind of already talked about it, but it is like one of the best musical theater songs ever written. Um, I say that without exaggeration, is one of the best female written songs for females on Broadway I've ever heard, especially older females having a look back like truly, like there's nothing to compare to this, and unless I'm missing out anyone in my head, but I love this song. It's the one I listen to the most, um, and the one I return to when I think like it's the first song that comes into my head when I think of this show. And give it to anyone, any vocalist, they can play it five different ways. It is a very different playable song, and I don't know. I'm always impressed by it. Um, and I um and it makes me think this show is incredible. This show is amazing, even though I think I get a little tricked at the end.

[1:00:17] Grace Aki: Um, the trick is like I enjoyed the parts of this.

[1:00:23] Jesse McAnally: I don't think I enjoy the whole of it.

[1:00:26] Grace Aki: I love the song.

[1:00:28] Jesse McAnally: Or of the whole show.

[1:00:28] Grace Aki: Of the whole show.

[1:00:32] Jesse McAnally: But the song you really like.

[1:00:32] Grace Aki: The song I really like, and it leaves me like, oh my god, that was such a good show. That was an incredible show. It's smart to close with one of the best songs.

[1:00:40] Jesse McAnally: It is.

[1:00:41] Grace Aki: It really, really. And there's nowhere else to go.

[1:00:44] Jesse McAnally: No.

[1:00:44] Grace Aki: Like, what else do we need to see? There's not really a climax except for this moment of her accepting that, like, while her daughter, like, she can't, they can't, she will never be able to quote, fix what she believes she can possibly fix by existing in her daughter's life. It is unfixable. So what she can give her daughter is freedom. So her accepting that moment and the way that the whole story is set up with um stories and statues and ending with fables. It's a it's a literal beginning and middle and an end to a story. I love that so much.

[1:01:24] Jesse McAnally: So great. I'm yeah. I'm so sorry, but yeah, Fable is the best, and I I love it so much. And that is basically all we have to say about Light in the Piazza, I believe. Um I'm so glad Grace was here because I felt so I'm not gonna lie, this show daunts me a lot, which is part of the reason why it took so long. I know I wanted someone that had a lot of thoughts, a lot of taste and great taste. And we know when it comes to that, it's Grace Aki. So, Grace, please promote all the wonderful things you do around the internet so everyone can find.

[1:01:56] Grace Aki: Um, you can follow me on all social media platforms for the time being at it's Grace Aki. Um, also follow along. I'm sure that you all will be there, but um, I think all of us are gonna be at BroadwayCon this year.

[1:02:08] Jesse McAnally: Not us.

[1:02:09] Grace Aki: Not this time.

[1:02:10] Jesse McAnally: Noor.

[1:02:11] Grace Aki: Okay, well, I will be there.

[1:02:14] Jesse McAnally: Go see Grace.

[1:02:15] Grace Aki: Go see Grace. She's great. Um, but yeah, you can with anything if you care to. Um, on all my projects. I've got a solo show that I just did a reading of, and I can't wait to bring it back again. You all have been so incredibly kind and supportive. Um, if you want to hear more about to free a mocking bird, you can go listen to a musicals with cheese episode specifically dedicated to it, which um I am eternally grateful for a parade of kindness. So I don't mind you listening to it because uh it's it's so kind. Um, but yeah, so to free a mock me on a Sunday as my podcast through Broadway Podcast Network. I'm also if you ever care every single day, we present it to you on today on Broadway, another podcast um that is a bow that can kind of contextualize all of the Broadway news happening if you don't have time to listen to it, you know, watch what's your Twitter feed and what have you. We bring it to you to you in like 20 minutes every single day.

[1:03:06] Jesse McAnally: So that's that's what you missed on Glee.

[1:03:09] Grace Aki: And thank you all so much for having me again. You know, I hate to yeah, derail, but we forgot to give our cheese rating.

[1:03:16] Jesse McAnally: Oh, we'll get there.

[1:03:17] Grace Aki: We'll get there. Don't worry, I haven't forgotten. Um, I do want to say your Etsy shop.

[1:03:22] Jesse McAnally: Yes, you are so kind. In fact, actually yesterday I was standing outside of New York, New York, and some kind patron came up to me and was like, are you Grace? And I said yes, and they were like, I get your art on Etsy, and I was like, that is the coolest thing you could have ever said to me. Um I do have an Etsy store where I uh do a lot of like ink and watercolor originals based on um TV film and some original works um called Grace Aki Made It. You can also find that through my Instagram as well at Great Helm as well. So yeah.

[1:03:50] Jesse McAnally: Yep. And now as Andrew 100% pointed out that I had forgotten, but I played off like nothing happened. What is our overall thoughts on Light in the Piazza and our cheese?

[1:04:01] Andrew DeWolf: Um, yeah, I mean, other than the one weird story thing that I probably would have changed. I mean, everything else is just pretty gold. Uh, and the music is really solid throughout. Um it's a good show. I mean, uh, I'm glad that they did that Encourse thing. That sounded like uh it was a great uh thing for them to do. I don't know if it will ever come back, but isn't there's always this uh pro shot, so you can go check that out.

[1:04:28] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, I don't think it's ever been officially released um legally, but I'm glad I have it.

[1:04:33] Andrew DeWolf: Well, you know, if you can find it, which you can, yo ho, you know? That's what I have to say. Um as far as a cheese rating, I mean, the list of Italian cheeses is is eternal. Uh so long. There's so many different cheeses that you can give it. I'm trying to pick a fun one, but uh I guess gotta I just gotta pick one here. I want to pick one that's Italian sounding, like hard to pronounce. So I'm gonna butcher it. How about uh Bibity Bubidi Vizina?

[1:05:11] Jesse McAnally: That sounds like a good one.

[1:05:14] Andrew DeWolf: I I I see no reason why it isn't. Grace, what about you? Your overall thoughts and your cheese rating.

[1:05:20] Grace Aki: I'm gonna give this. Here's the thing. I think it's a beautiful piece. And I also think it's well, like I said earlier, it is a perfect Encore show. It has some like like as as a work, I think, some holes, but I do believe that it is a like an outstanding score, an outstanding um piece of art that I hope we can continue to enjoy for years to come. Uh so I do enjoy it, and I would give this a cheese rating of a Parmesan crisp. Meaning, you don't exactly belong on the cheese board. You are cheese, and you do have holes. And you know what? You're tasty as hell.

[1:06:00] Jesse McAnally: Love it. Thought out, brilliant. Um, mine is so lazy. Um, I enjoy this show, but I feel like every time I kind of notice more and more of the faults in its construction and writing. And I return to specific aspects of it rather than the whole thing when I do return to it. Um I would love to see it live sooner rather than later. Um, I'm hoping that uh there will be some great community theater productions because I feel like this isn't done in local theater very often, and it is like a fantastic score.

[1:06:33] Grace Aki: Yeah, but it's I know, but I I'm thinking like even the bigger like Flint rapper took that. I'm surprised they don't do it more often just to show off their orchestra or like universities that have the big orchestras. Listen, the Vivian Beaumont, because Camelot has decided to close early, is now open. Maybe from New York City Center will transfer to its old home for a few few months, a few weeks. Who's to say a strict limited engagement? Um Ben Platt playing Fabrizio.

[1:07:05] Andrew DeWolf: Um alright. But my cheese rating is Parmesan cheese on a Fabrizio platter kit. Um basically it's uh this guy named Fabrizio makes cheese platter kits, and he's gonna be cutting some cheese trays for me. Um yeah, that that's that's my justification.

[1:07:25] Grace Aki: Okay. Um don't tell me what to do, mom. I can do what I want. He's the light in my piazza.

[1:07:32] Jesse McAnally: Guess you you're a very special boy, so Brizio.

[1:07:39] Grace Aki: Okay, yes, I can.

[1:07:40] Jesse McAnally: And that's the musical there.

[1:07:42] Grace Aki: Um I'm so grateful for all of you. I hope you had fun, Grace.

[1:07:48] Jesse McAnally: Always something.

[1:07:50] Grace Aki: Y'all.

[1:07:51] Jesse McAnally: You don't have to lie.

[1:07:52] Grace Aki: You just brought out your inner baby a net there.

[1:07:55] Jesse McAnally: Daddy kills people.

[1:07:56] Grace Aki: Baby Annette.

[1:07:59] Jesse McAnally: I I've I'm disgusted with how often I return. You know who else makes me feel disgusted, though? All of our patrons.

[1:08:08] Grace Aki: All of our wonderful patrons! Thank you guys for listening. Please follow us on iTunes iTunes, Spotify, and maybe something else at Musicals with Cheese. We're on Twitter at Cheesy Musicals, Patreon Musical Cheese, Instagram Musical Cheese, YouTube page musicals and cheese. Email us at musical theaterless gmail.com. Our keeper of the cheese is Juliet Antonio and Grace. Every time for Juliet, I ask for a little ASMR. And you did such a great time last a great one last time. So why don't you give her a little ASMR for what are we saying for Juliet?

[1:08:35] Grace Aki: What I I I don't know. Um sincerely um when my daughter was 12 years old that's a good one say that I've come too far in life to be canceled in this moment. Don't you dare Miranda sings it.

[1:08:54] Jesse McAnally: Okay, you ready?

[1:08:57] Grace Aki: Ready.

[1:08:59] Grace Aki: Fabrizio Beautiful um this show is edited by Andrew DeWolf and he's doing a fantastic job. Thank you to the Broadway Podcast Network for having all of us on the platform and for not kicking us off for shit about Miranda Sings. Um gotta see Patreon for that bitches. Um all right anything else we have left to say before we wrap this all up stay away from horses yeah and Italian men mostly horses though I mean they will both kick you in the head she got kicked in the head and we got kicked in the heart and that is all from uh us at musicals with cheese we'll see you next week anytime I think about fable I just go if you find the world in the wide wide world.