This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:06] Jesse McAnally: Hello, I'm Jesse MacInally.

[0:09] Andrew DeWolf: And I'm Andrew DeWolf.

[0:11] Liz Eston: And I'm Liz Eston.

[0:12] Jesse McAnally: And welcome to Musicals with Cheese, a podcast where I try to get Andrew and Liz to like musical theater.

[0:19] Jesse McAnally: Um Andrew.

[0:21] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[0:22] Jesse McAnally: I've got this book I need to read to you.

[0:26] Andrew DeWolf: Oh yeah? What's it about?

[0:28] Jesse McAnally: Is it about the that guy with the glasses uh site forums?

[0:33] Jesse McAnally: It's about these two people. Let's call them Drew and Jay.

[0:39] Jesse McAnally: And they met on a website called the called That Guy with the Glasses Forums.

[0:46] Jesse McAnally: And they fell in love, but then they stopped talking.

[0:50] Jesse McAnally: And then a bunch of years later, they made a podcast, and it was slightly popular in a very niche area.

[0:57] Jesse McAnally: And I would say it's six people's favorite thing.

[1:02] Andrew DeWolf: Hang on, this sounds really familiar.

[1:04] Andrew DeWolf: I feel like.

[1:06] Andrew DeWolf: Wait.

[1:07] Andrew DeWolf: Jess?

[1:08] Jesse McAnally: No, you remember me!

[1:12] Jesse McAnally: Hey, it's me! Let's die in each other's arms, baby!

[1:17] Andrew DeWolf: Wait, are we recording right now?

[1:19] Jesse McAnally: Yes.

[1:20] Jesse McAnally: Is this the podcast?

[1:21] Jesse McAnally: Yes, yes, you remember. You remember the podcast!

[1:25] Andrew DeWolf: You're not the nostalgia critic. Get away from me.

[1:27] Jesse McAnally: Oh no, oh no, we have to sedate him.

[1:29] Andrew DeWolf: Oh no!

[1:30] Jesse McAnally: He's having a duck walk. Get away from the city!

[1:32] Jesse McAnally: It's okay, Mr. Andrew. We'll get you to a safe space.

[1:37] Andrew DeWolf: I'm the nostalgic.

[1:41] Jesse McAnally: Wow. You know this is quality content people have been listening to for five years.

[1:49] Jesse McAnally: Um, this week, in case we haven't picked up what we're throwing down, we're real critics over here.

[1:55] Jesse McAnally: We are talking about the newly released Broadway musical, The Notebook.

[1:59] Jesse McAnally: Hue the music.

[2:02] Jesse McAnally: Look at this dress. It was my favorite.

[2:07] Jesse McAnally: Because my mother hated it so much.

[2:12] Jesse McAnally: So I'll give it to my daughter. And she'll give it to her daughter.

[2:18] Jesse McAnally: It's a piece of me that they can touch when I'm gone.

[2:47] Jesse McAnally: So The Notebook is a musical written by Becca Brunsteader with music and lyrics by Ingrid Michaelson's based on Nicholas Sparks' novel, The Notebook.

[2:56] Jesse McAnally: The musical opens on Broadway on March 14th, 2024 at the Gerald Schoenfeld Theater.

[3:04] Jesse McAnally: Um now here is the press release, uh plot synopsis per Playbill.com.

[3:10] Jesse McAnally: Relive the romance! Beginning with a whirlwind summer romance, the decades-long love story between a mill worker named Noah and a privileged debutante named Allie spans a lifetime in spite of the differences that threaten to pull them apart.

[3:25] Jesse McAnally: Alright, I would like to dub this episode. Just got Andrew to watch The Notebook, ha ha ha ha ha.

[3:32] Jesse McAnally: Who would have thunk? I did it. I watched The Notebook and I didn't even I didn't even have a masculine breakdown.

[3:39] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[3:40] Andrew DeWolf: Absolute, absolute anxiety attack on my masculinity.

[3:45] Jesse McAnally: Okay. Oh, god damn it. I have a story to tell, and it's not related to any of this, but it is fresh in my mind, and it is related to toxic masculinity and musical theater.

[3:56] Jesse McAnally: Feel free to cut this if you want, Andrew. But last night I saw Mamma Mia live.

[4:03] Jesse McAnally: Truly one of the rudest audience experiences I've ever seen, and I've never seen ushers have to yell at, kick out, and remove so many people.

[4:13] Jesse McAnally: Let me be clear.

[4:14] Jesse McAnally: What? Mamma Mia?

[4:15] Jesse McAnally: And Mamma Mia.

[4:17] Jesse McAnally: Let me be clear. Most of them were very inebriated boomer women just trying to have a good time.

[4:23] Jesse McAnally: But there was one that I need to talk about. There is one person I need to highlight.

[4:29] Jesse McAnally: Um because I we we know my history with Mamma Mia. I don't it's a fine, fun show, but also not really my thing.

[4:37] Jesse McAnally: But I went, I showed up. Especially now that you can't drink.

[4:40] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, now they can't.

[4:41] Jesse McAnally: I think I would have had a blast. Um the th okay, so credit to the Fisher Theater.

[4:46] Jesse McAnally: They have this incredible thing where they have QR codes on the back of the seats in front of you, and they will bring drinks to your face.

[4:53] Andrew DeWolf: Oh fuck. That's perfect.

[4:54] Jesse McAnally: It is incredible. But there was someone behind me, and I am surrounded on all sides, like directly, with young people around my age, women wearing feather boas, wanting to have a good fucking time. And that's the energy.

[5:09] Jesse McAnally: But then directly behind the woman next to me, there was a man. Younger than us, Andrew. Let's say he's about 22, 23, and he went with his grandmother of all people, because sh that ain't his mom, and it's not his girlfriend, so it's definitely his grandmother.

[5:29] Jesse McAnally: He had been on the brain cell subreddit so long, and I think his social acumen is below dinosaur bones, because throughout the show, in full voice, calling the women and characters in the show whores and sluts.

[5:46] Andrew DeWolf: And have you uh heard of Mamma Mia before?

[5:49] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, have you? Do you know what the plot is?

[5:52] Jesse McAnally: And very much alt-right kind of bullshit and slurs mixed in every now and then because there were people of colors.

[6:01] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, Jesus.

[6:02] Jesse McAnally: Mixed in. Excellent. And everyone is just like, shut the fuck up, please tell him to shut up. And they refused to act like anyone said anything, and they just kept going.

[6:11] Jesse McAnally: At one point, the girl next to me in the middle of act one ran out and told someone nothing got done. Act two, he knew he was getting kicked, or like in intermission, he knew he was getting kicked out and hid from the ushers, hoping that he could sneak back in in the middle of act two.

[6:26] Jesse McAnally: And then he started screaming, everyone's a fucking idiot, and was taken out of the show by not an usher, what looked to be the manager of this theater.

[6:39] Jesse McAnally: And truly that mixed with all the drunken women standing up and screaming during the middle of songs and scenes, one of the most insane nights of the theater I've ever had.

[6:50] Jesse McAnally: This was a weekday. This was uh Tuesday night, press night for Mamma Mia.

[6:57] Andrew DeWolf: Okay in Detroit.

[6:59] Jesse McAnally: Um that's this is your press review.

[7:01] Jesse McAnally: There you go. This is my that is as relevant as most Ben Brantley reviews to the actual content in the show.

[7:09] Jesse McAnally: My review of Mamma Mia. There was this guy behind me. Um credit to the entire wonderful cast of Mamma Mia. Y'all did great with the circumstances you were in.

[7:22] Jesse McAnally: Fantastic. Now back to The Notebook.

[7:24] Jesse McAnally: Um cells beware. This show makes some choices. This show's about a bunch of cucks.

[7:32] Jesse McAnally: There's so much cucking, guys.

[7:34] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, so much cucking. I think I think, Andrew, you brought up that when you watch the movie, the James Marsden character, you said that is every incel's worst fear of becoming that.

[7:46] Andrew DeWolf: That is what they imagine themselves.

[7:48] Jesse McAnally: The entire, the entire like incel movement is uh they don't want to be the second guy in the romance movie.

[7:55] Andrew DeWolf: So they don't want to be James Marsden in the mid-2000s.

[7:57] Jesse McAnally: No. Because he was that guy like five times.

[8:02] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, he also signed a few things he shouldn't have. Doesn't he start sitting next to Sonic in cars or something?

[8:08] Jesse McAnally: Like Sonic and Russell Brand.

[8:11] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, then he was in that uh Amazon show, uh Jerry Duty.

[8:15] Jesse McAnally: And he had a career resurgence from that.

[8:17] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[8:18] Jesse McAnally: Um so The Notebook. Um, the way we did this, there are no bootlegs for this, but there is a cast album and there is a movie, and I figured I show them the movie, listen to the cast album, explain a bunch of stuff in the show.

[8:35] Jesse McAnally: That's gonna be their version of the experience, and it's gonna be a lot of people's versions of experiencing The Notebook until it starts touring and all that.

[8:42] Jesse McAnally: So I want to go in with that caveat. We have not sat down and seen this show, nor are we gonna act like this is a full interpretation of the story based on that.

[8:52] Jesse McAnally: So don't don't think that that's the case or that this is a representative piece of that. I want to talk a lot about this year's Broadway season, the review culture, and all that.

[9:02] Jesse McAnally: And I also want to hear what Liz and Andrew thought of The Notebook. So Andrew, why why don't you go first as the the biggest Nicholas Sparks virgin here?

[9:15] Andrew DeWolf: Man, I there's like there's like a lot to say. I feel like there's a there's a lot to say about this as a cultural piece. Um, but as far as like the movie itself, I think it's fine.

[9:31] Andrew DeWolf: I think it's extremely corny and sappy. Um, but that's what it's going for.

[9:36] Andrew DeWolf: But you mean that as a compliment.

[9:38] Andrew DeWolf: I think it nails it. I think as far as like what it's trying to do, nails it.

[9:45] Andrew DeWolf: Um, you know, am I gonna pretend it's like I'm gonna go watch it again? No, I'm not.

[9:49] Jesse McAnally: See your girlfriend asks you and you're like, yeah.

[9:52] Andrew DeWolf: Like, did you watch it with Mesha or was it just by yourself?

[9:55] Andrew DeWolf: I watched it by myself.

[9:58] Andrew DeWolf: Like I do all things.

[10:01] Andrew DeWolf: The Cats movie and Christmas Day on the theaters by yourself.

[10:06] Jesse McAnally: I'm I can't believe there's not more like fan art of me in like a New Year's hat sitting by myself in a theater watching Cats.

[10:16] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[10:16] Andrew DeWolf: Um yeah, yes, I did make him go alone.

[10:19] Jesse McAnally: Um, I saw Wonka alone in the middle of the day, so I I make you guys do wonderful things.

[10:26] Jesse McAnally: Now, Liz, this is your first time watching The Notebook, the the iconic Nicholas Sparks movie, but not in your first Nick Sparks movie.

[10:33] Jesse McAnally: Go listen to our Nick Sparks episode uh a thousand years ago that we did uh for that. But what'd you think?

[10:40] Liz Eston: I liked it. It was like I knew enough about it that I knew it was gonna happen in like the famous scenes, but like it's perfect Nicholas Sparks cheese, like weird jingoism, random cucking characters that are very poorly defined, but they just in love with each other because they can, but they still fight all the time, but they still love each other and they shouldn't be together, but it's fine. Because love uh no, I like the movie, it's enjoyable.

[11:07] Liz Eston: The musical is weird from what I can gauge with the way we covered it.

[11:13] Liz Eston: Yeah. It makes some choices with the narrative it's been given.

[11:19] Liz Eston: So the biggest narrative choices, like actual plot changes, are the big one is they move the time period up to match like today.

[11:28] Liz Eston: So instead of him being fighting in what was it, World War II, he is now fighting in Vietnam.

[11:35] Liz Eston: Um, because uh time passes and life is terrible. Um So that is a interesting way, and it brings Noah home in a a much darker kind of state.

[11:45] Liz Eston: In like doing that one change alone changes the context for which he comes home in.

[11:51] Liz Eston: Which I think is an interesting change. Um they also remove the depth from Allie's parents, like, and now they're just kind of evil bad guys that ooh, don't don't marry that middle worker, that peon.

[12:07] Liz Eston: He's a poor. They were pretty close to being that in the movie in the first place.

[12:12] Jesse McAnally: They have that one scene with the mom.

[12:14] Liz Eston: Yeah, the mom had a backstory. That is why she didn't want him to date the male worker.

[12:18] Liz Eston: Yeah. She's like, I gave up my dream of marrying a poor, so you need to as well.

[12:24] Liz Eston: Yeah. Sometimes I come down here just to watch the fours and dream of what it would be like to be with them.

[12:33] Liz Eston: And it's worth noting. This is based quote unquote on the book by Nicholas Sparks.

[12:39] Liz Eston: But I've not read the book, but I have listened to Nicholas Sparks' commentary on the film.

[12:45] Liz Eston: And he basically says, Man, most of the stuff in this movie was like one sentence in my book.

[12:52] Liz Eston: Like I think it looks great here. Like the war scene, like that was like one sentence.

[12:57] Liz Eston: Like, I didn't dive into that. It's just like he went to war and came back.

[13:02] Jesse McAnally: There was way too much budget on that.

[13:04] Liz Eston: Yeah. What's a little budget? Like a bomb, like a bombing run or something. Like he didn't have to do that.

[13:10] Andrew DeWolf: Was his friend made up then? If that was one sentence in the book, like, did that friend even exist?

[13:15] Liz Eston: I think it's like a footnote, because really the focus is entirely on the love and romance um between him and Allie and the sexcapades. In fact, it's still up for debate whether or not they die at the end of the book.

[13:32] Liz Eston: There's a TikTok going around where they're like, I don't think they died, because she it just says that he's she starts taking off his shirt and then he felt like heaven.

[13:42] Andrew DeWolf: It sounds like they just fucked.

[13:45] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, I mean, I think that the sappier ending for the movie where they hold hands and die, though, is what the audience wants.

[13:54] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, but you have opinions on that too, especially in comparison to how the movie and the musical handles that, and I'd love for you to elaborate on that.

[14:03] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, um, I just have thoughts. Uh, I don't even know if I have fully fledged opinions. Just thoughts. It's for debate. We're a podcast. We're here for thoughts. So I just think it's very interesting. The focus, it focuses very heavily on like their life before they are allowed to be in love, and then flash forward to basically them being dead. You know? Like, it's like the only two parts of your life that matter are when you start being in love, and then does that love end with you dying? Like holding hands, you know? And it's like, I feel like it's a weird cultural thing. I feel like that's what we put importance on. What I'm wondering is like, where's all that middle period, you know? What happens after they get married, and like are they happy?

You know? That's a question. And you know, I hate comparing this because I don't like this movie. I mean, that's essentially what Up says, because Up focuses on the start of their relationship and on the end of their relationship, and the question is, was it all worth it? And then the answer is yes, for all the boring mundane stuff that we were happy through, which is the answer to that movie. It's like the only parts of that movie that work, and I feel like this also, I don't know if it makes it worse or makes it more convoluted in the musical, where it makes the very baffling choice of in making their three variations of Ally and Noah.

[15:43] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[15:44] Jesse McAnally: One thing I noticed with the musical on this point, yes, is that there seems to be a more, because of the songs, there's like songs that are very focused on the like we don't have an infinite time, like we're gonna be dead soon aspect of it.

[16:02] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[16:02] Jesse McAnally: You know? There's like multiple songs where they kind of dwell on that theme. So that's where I kind of get this idea of like the musical seems more interested in the idea of death than it is in the idea of love.

[16:18] Andrew DeWolf: Well, let's dive into the composer for a second, Ingrid Michaelson's. When I say that name, does it mean anything to either of you?

[16:26] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[16:27] Andrew DeWolf: I listen to her covers periodically.

[16:30] Jesse McAnally: Um, Andrew, nothing.

[16:32] Andrew DeWolf: Not to me, no.

[16:33] Jesse McAnally: Um, I like her. I think she's pretty neat. Um, she's relatively young. Um, she, I first, she came onto my viewfinder when she took over the role of Sonia in the Broadway production of Natasha, Pierre & The Great Comet of 1812, um, which kind of got her first start in Broadway, and then she started doing more work in relation to all that. Um, and led to The Notebook. Um, I think she's a perfect choice for this musical, but also a lot of the songs sound the same, which makes it hard to differentiate between them.

[17:15] Andrew DeWolf: There's a lot of sappy pop songs.

[17:18] Jesse McAnally: Yes, yes. Um, which I think honestly, my opinion, it's fine. Because The Notebook is a sappy pop property.

[17:29] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[17:29] Jesse McAnally: And I think that, oh, I actually think when I first heard about this, I'm like, that is fucking perfect. In theory. In execution, every song sounds like it. It's the same problem I have with Finding Neverland, where there's not a single problem with any individual song. But put together as a conglomerate, as a collective, all of the songs wanna be the most epic song.

[17:52] Andrew DeWolf: Hmm.

[17:53] Jesse McAnally: I can see that argument where it's like, because they're all the same, you kind of can't, you don't have, they're like competing with each other instead of working together. And there's songs that conceptually, I think are great and brilliant. Like when Allie is dealing with, um, uh, spoilers for The Notebook, the movie that everyone knows that so much that even the musical doesn't try to hide the twist anymore, um, where the other Allies are trying to bring back the memories of older Allie saying, I'm still in here. Conceptually, that's like a Sandimian idea, and it just sounds the same as, um, Allie being in love. You know?

[18:33] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[18:34] Jesse McAnally: I got the vibe from it that was like Ingrid Michaelson's heard what Sara Bareilles did and was like, I want to try, but forgot to make different songs. Um, I would like, I don't see Ingrid Michaelson's writing a song like Never Ever Getting Rid of Me, which is a very specific bouncy, strange song for a very bouncy, strange character. Um, there, and now I don't, don't confuse any of this with me saying any of this is bad. This is just a thing. Now I say that because we gotta talk about the casting of Ally and Noah's.

[19:11] Andrew DeWolf: Oh god, no, not the casting controversy.

[19:15] Jesse McAnally: Let me, it's not a controversy. It's, I, I, I, it's an interesting decision. It's a choice.

[19:21] Andrew DeWolf: It is a choice.

[19:23] Jesse McAnally: Um, now they went for a racial blind casting. Um, meaning, uh, I think the general argument could be they wanted to pick the best person for the role that they each required a meritocracy. It's just solid reasoning. This is where it gets confusing. So let's go through the first set of Noah and Allie. Um, we have a white man and a darker-skinned woman, and then we got the middle Allie, we have a white man and a darker-skinned woman, and then for the old Allie, we got a white woman, and for the old Noah, we got a black man.

[19:59] Andrew DeWolf: Now, here's the thing.

[20:02] Jesse McAnally: It makes it harder for you to draw connections where you're supposed to draw connections, and I think that this idea could have worked if each one was different. If there was a more diverse casting, like there was an Asian person or someone of other descents, like, uh, Middle Eastern, like a good varied mix, and everyone was different.

[20:21] Andrew DeWolf: You're missing the point though.

[20:23] Jesse McAnally: They were trying to re-implement the twist.

[20:28] Andrew DeWolf: No, no, no, no. I see, no, because then you're even more confused.

[20:35] Andrew DeWolf: Wait, so in the opening song, don't they give away the twist like a minute?

[20:39] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, basically.

[20:40] Andrew DeWolf: Okay.

[20:41] Jesse McAnally: Yeah. I think, um, I think my opinion on this is that I don't really care, but it's funny. Like, I only care because it's confusing to like someone that hasn't already memorized The Notebook. But it's also just confusing the way it's structured because there's three different people playing the same character, and sometimes they're all on stage at the same time, and you can't register who's who, and then sometimes they sing at the same time, and you can't register anyone's emotions from the other.

[21:11] Liz Eston: So Liz, you got it right on the head.

[21:14] Jesse McAnally: Um, and I'm getting better.

[21:16] Andrew DeWolf: See.

[21:17] Jesse McAnally: No, you're not gonna shut up.

[21:20] Andrew DeWolf: Sorry.

[21:21] Jesse McAnally: You were always good. Uh, Hollywood really has gone woke. They're race swapping characters in the middle of the show.

[21:30] Andrew DeWolf: Oh god.

[21:31] Jesse McAnally: This is also currently on TikTok, the actress playing Karen in, um, Mean Girls movie is getting harassed in her comments because of a fan cast of a fake Tangled remake that they put her in, and she's getting harassed for ruining a white character that she's not even playing.

[21:49] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, the internet.

[21:50] Jesse McAnally: I'm so glad. I'm glad China's making us get rid of you. Also, I looked up an article about the DC, the book of the movie. Finn is in the book, and he does die in the war. Just two sentences. And he died. Bye!

[22:05] Andrew DeWolf: Bye.

[22:05] Jesse McAnally: Also, Noah plays a guitar in the book, but not the movie. So they brought the guitar back for the show.

[22:12] Andrew DeWolf: That, I mean, Ryan Gosling couldn't be played.

[22:14] Jesse McAnally: Ryan Gosling could be fucked to play guitar.

[22:16] Andrew DeWolf: He wasn't Ken yet.

[22:19] Jesse McAnally: Um, I'm not, I'm not learning how to play a guitar. I can only play Matchbox 20 on this guitar. I will not play anything else.

[22:26] Andrew DeWolf: Um, he can play push.

[22:28] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, great song.

[22:29] Andrew DeWolf: That's, that's Matchbox 20.

[22:30] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, it's Matchbox 20.

[22:32] Andrew DeWolf: God damn it!

[22:37] Jesse McAnally: This fucking idiot.

[22:45] Andrew DeWolf: Alright, Jess, I see you have like, you have like notes for days on reviews here.

[22:49] Jesse McAnally: I don't know what's gonna happen.

[22:50] Andrew DeWolf: Okay. So let's talk about the reviews. Um, Broadway's in a weird state right now. Um, and people are going a little fucking nuts. Um, me and Andrew have not had the cleanest conscience as far as respecting the Broadway reviewers as a tastemaker for the community. And we still don't, like, but I think that it's everyone's opinion to have their opinion. It's everyone's right to have their opinion, and because someone has a platform and whatnot, use your platform or don't use your platform. However, it is damaging to think about how much power a Broadway critic has in whether or not a show lasts as long. Like, I get it. It's very hard to not take it personally when this is your livelihood. However, claiming bigotry and just general like attacks because you didn't like a musical, and I've read all the reviews out for all the new musicals, and none of them feel like attacks.

None of them feel like pointed, they feel like legitimate criticism. And the fact that people are saying we need to get rid of critics, and that critics' power is too big and it's gone to their heads, and no one can get a good show out there, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I need examples here because I don't want to jump down anybody's throat here, and I don't wanna, so I need you to give examples.

[24:24] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[24:25] Jesse McAnally: So this is specifically surrounding the topic of Cabaret. So the Cabaret revival, um, was a huge success in the West End. You know, like got really good reviews, and then moved to America and got mixed to negative reviews. Um, and other people are saying that it's just not fair. That, hey, this should have been a sure thing. Why didn't it work here? You should have, your opinions are different and it's not fair, and all this thing, and what, and I think it's just we have talked about the difference in taste between West End critics and American critics. Like when A Strange Loop came to the West End, not as glowing reviews as it got in America. When Hadestown came to the West End, I would say almost vitriolic reviews because they said it was too glum.

Um, I think that people have always hated folks like Ben Brantley, including us. Um, it's just really baffling how the people are saying that it is intentionally trying to break down a show. I do not believe any reviewer has ever intentionally tried to bring down a show, except maybe Michael Riedel with, um, Spider-Man: Turn Off the Dark.

[25:50] Andrew DeWolf: That is the only case I can think of.

[25:52] Jesse McAnally: Um, I don't know. It bothers me to no end this entire Tony season that suddenly people think that Back to the Future: The Musical is high art. And that because it is giving people jobs, it deserves praise for just trying. I feel like it's a, uh, we're in desperation mode here. Um, the pandemic killed a lot of stuff.

[26:20] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, it did.

[26:20] Jesse McAnally: Uh, so we're clinging to whatever new thing we can get. And honestly, it's weird being on this side of it, because I do sort of, I do agree with you, but also we were some of the people advocating that we needed more like, you know, blue-collar type shows. Things don't need to be so high all the time and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[26:41] Andrew DeWolf: I agree.

[26:43] Jesse McAnally: But the difference is you can, in our point is you can enjoy a show that is a blue-collar show, but still you could still accept that it's like, this is, you know, I'm watching the Power Rangers musical right now, you know. This isn't like the critics aren't gonna love this, but I like it. You know, like that's what you have to do. Let me put it like this, and I think this is the biggest thing. Post-pandemic Broadway shows prices are at an all-time high.

[27:11] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, yeah.

[27:12] Jesse McAnally: If you're paying $300 to go see a show, I don't blame you for wanting the best show of your life.

[27:19] Andrew DeWolf: So you've got a kind of grade on a curve of expense versus what you're getting.

[27:26] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[27:27] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, and I think that the critics can take that into account and can be a bit harsh sometimes.

[27:35] Jesse McAnally: And maybe sometimes too harsh, but honestly, maybe that's for the best with prices as high as they are. I don't know.

[27:41] Andrew DeWolf: Now, I'm saying all that to prelude Jesse Green's review that he wrote on March 14th, 2024 for our brief segment. Um, which I'd say the knives are out a bit, um, but I don't think any of them are invalid criticisms either.

[27:57] Jesse McAnally: Like Jesse Green is somewhat.

[27:59] Andrew DeWolf: I'm looking at this, I'm looking at this headline.

[28:01] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, it's it's not it's he's he's mad.

[28:03] Andrew DeWolf: He's mad.

[28:05] Jesse McAnally: But I don't s he's including the five dollar box of tits.

[28:09] Andrew DeWolf: Five dollar boxes in the headlines. That's an immediate sign.

[28:12] Jesse McAnally: But that is kind of cringe, though.

[28:15] Andrew DeWolf: It's true.

[28:16] Jesse McAnally: Yeah. Um, but let's let's take a look. Do you want to actually read this, Andrew?

[28:21] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I can read it. So the headline is "The Notebook Review: A Musical Tearjerker or Just All Wet?" The 2004 Weepy comes to Broadway with songs by Ingrid Michaelson's and a five dollar box of tissues. Umantic musicals are as personal as romance itself. What makes you sigh and weep may leave the person next to you bored and stony. At The Notebook, I was the person next to you.

[28:55] Jesse McAnally: Uh, so he was bored and stony.

[28:58] Andrew DeWolf: Okay. You were sniffling even before anything much happened on stage. As the lights came up, an old man dozed while a teenage boy and girl frisked nearby in an unconvincing body of water. A wispy song called "Time" wafted over the footlights.

[29:14] Jesse McAnally: Time time time. It was never mine.

[29:19] Andrew DeWolf: Uh yeah, this is one of those songs that's uh about death. That I was discussing. Um, but having seen, I'm guessing more than once, the 2004 movie on which The Notebook is based, um, which I would say it is based on the movie, not the book, but yeah.

[29:40] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[29:41] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. Um, and possibly having read the 1996 novel by Nicholas Sparks, you perfectly well knew what was coming. That was the point of mounting the show, which opened on Thursday at the Gerald Schoenfeld uh theater in the first place.

[29:57] Jesse McAnally: Which, in a world where we currently have more movie-based Broadway musicals than not running.

[30:03] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, that is the point. I don't think that's even a uh an unfair jab. It is trying to market to the people that saw the movie.

[30:12] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, well, I think we know why it exists.

[30:15] Andrew DeWolf: So there's a reason the producers are selling teeny five dollar notebook themed boxes of tissues in the lobby. Love is powerful, dementia is sad, the result can be heartbreaking. Or maybe seen with the cold eye.

[30:28] Jesse McAnally: Uh oh boy.

[30:30] Andrew DeWolf: Meritricious critic worse.

[30:32] Jesse McAnally: Meritricious, uh you're gonna have to translate that one for me.

[30:35] Andrew DeWolf: I got it. Uh Thesaurus Bot. Uh uh Meritricious, apparently attractive, but having no, in reality, no value or integrity.

[30:46] Jesse McAnally: Ah, gotcha. That does make sense. I do want to jump ahead a little bit, um, to when Jesse Green's talking about the book. Um, referring to the artist, um, the the writer by name.

[30:57] Andrew DeWolf: So Brunsteadder hacking through the story with a scythe to make room has left bald stumps everywhere. Allie's meddling, disapproving parents are demoted to mere nasties, their motivations discarded with their backstory. Her fiancé is a non-entity. What Noah and Allie do between their late teens when they meet and they separate, and their late twenties when they are rapturously rejoined, is reduced to a throwaway, let's see, heartbreak graduation, many Tuesdays, Thanksgivings, and a war. Flip lines like that break whatever spell the material, usually earnest to a fault, is trying to cast.

[31:27] Jesse McAnally: Um I see, that's that's that's a fair critique, because you gotta fit in all these other pieces, and honestly, the biggest thing that you lose with this is having a completely different face for the middle chunk that you didn't have in the romance section.

[31:46] Andrew DeWolf: If one person doesn't have chemistry, this entire thing is gonna deflate. And the only reason, the only reason the film works at all is the strangely magnetic chemistry between Ryan Gosling and Rachel McAdams, where they both hated each other on set, but then started dating after the filming.

[32:05] Jesse McAnally: Something happens.

[32:06] Andrew DeWolf: It's an enemies to lovers fic.

[32:08] Jesse McAnally: Correct.

[32:09] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, it is. I want that fic of Ryan Gosling. Um whether that is sufficient to make me cry would be a weepy is a different matter. That the notebook themed tissues are so tiny, says it all.

[32:23] Jesse McAnally: Who cares about the size of the fucking tissues?

[32:26] Andrew DeWolf: Well, that's more his metaphor is like.

[32:31] Jesse McAnally: I mean I think his review here is actually pretty good though. Honestly, this is one of the better reviews from the New York Times that we've read, where it seems like he's actually making a decent point, and even making an argument as to why other people are enjoying it, but he didn't.

[32:47] Andrew DeWolf: Yes. Uh it's a little patronizing, but he is doing it to give value to what they people want to experience from The Notebook.

[32:56] Jesse McAnally: And and I think that the definitely the aspects of like cutting things, that is that's a great point. Because one thing with the movie is the characters are already incredibly one note.

[33:09] Andrew DeWolf: So removing removing even more from that is just like like the fiancé aspect of it. Like, I feel like that's an important part to hit. Like that that has to exist in the story. And when when I was listening through the uh the album, the songs for the for the album, I was like, Alright, when does the fiancé come in and get a song? It doesn't happen.

[33:30] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[33:32] Andrew DeWolf: Like there is none. Like the fact that Allie generally fell in love with this man in between this epic love stories pour into who she is as a character and how she can like go like It's also like the main confidence. And it's the conflict, because Nicholas Sparks movies don't have conflicts. They have love.

[33:50] Jesse McAnally: Well, sometimes they have evil evil people, but not in this case.

[34:54] Andrew DeWolf: Well, that I mean that's a funny point that you bring up, uh, because I in Nicholas Sparks's commentary for the movie, he brought up that in his first draft of the book that that character was more of a like an evil kind of mean boyfriend. And he sent it off to his editor, and his editor was like, No, if Allie decides to even consider this guy, we think less of Allie and what her own agency. We gotta make him a good guy, so her choice means more.

[35:03] Jesse McAnally: Um, but once again, I don't think Ingrid Michaelson's could stretch herself to have like a kind of pastiche song. And that sounds very diminishing, but that's how I feel. I mean, the most of us in Ingrid Michaelson's is our one cover of "Can't Help Falling in Love With You," so I don't know much, but her the way she writes music feels very like standard piano pop.

[35:27] Andrew DeWolf: But this should have been great. This really should have been a fucking home run, and that's what disappoints me more. Because this felt like the most easy layup for Brawl. It felt like Waitress 2.0. Everyone had the highest hopes for this show. They thought that this was gonna be like the one that was gonna sell out, and it's kind of it's not. Let's just say, it's not hitting the way that everyone expected it to.

[35:52] Jesse McAnally: Um and it has re stagecraft wise, some neat shit. They got a rain coming down. I think it's neat when there's rain on stage. I it's very hard to do that. Also, I think partially the Waitress comparison is apt, but I think with Waitress, it was based off a movie that isn't super well known.

[36:11] Andrew DeWolf: It wasn't well known at the time.

[36:12] Jesse McAnally: It still isn't super well known, despite being a multi-million dollar grossing musical at this point. But like The Notebook is the most iconic movies of 2004. It kind of changed live. It grossed millions of dollars. It won a lot many mem TV awards, which is big for the teen market, and like that's iconic and recreation. It made Nicholas Sparks movies a genre. It made cheesy romance a thing you put in the theater. Like, that is iconic and groundbreaking.

[36:48] Andrew DeWolf: And just trying to put that in a musical feels like trying to stuff way too much in the tiniest little glass bottle and not getting enough in there. Or to quote the angry video game nerd, it's like trying to shove your dick into a Cheerio.

[37:02] Jesse McAnally: What the f is that a quote?

[37:05] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, he said that.

[37:06] Jesse McAnally: I don't I don't watch angry video game nerds.

[37:09] Andrew DeWolf: It's like trying to stick your dick in a Cheerio.

[37:12] Jesse McAnally: Hey, I got it mostly right.

[37:14] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, you got it. You got it.

[37:16] Jesse McAnally: I mean, yeah.

[37:18] Andrew DeWolf: Um, let's go into a mid show, kids.

[37:29] Jesse McAnally: Hey guys! Sorry to interrupt you in the middle of the show, but we've gotta shill at you. Um the question is, what do you want?

[37:37] Andrew DeWolf: It's not that sample!

[37:39] Jesse McAnally: What do you want? It's I don't know.

[37:43] Andrew DeWolf: What the fuck?

[37:44] Jesse McAnally: He's returning a scene from the movie, which is weird.

[37:48] Andrew DeWolf: That's a scene from the movie.

[37:49] Jesse McAnally: Um, but the question is, what do you want? You'll find out on our Patreon because we have lots of cool stuff over there. We got commentaries, we got patron only episodes. I want to start doing some tier lists over there. I have some ideas, and we're gonna start doing some cool shit over there where I just kind of rant and rave.

[38:07] Andrew DeWolf: Um also you get our monthly Patreon meetups where we have a lot of fun with you guys. You get to pick what episodes we get to do. You can even be on this show if you uh donate enough. Also, we're gonna add a bunch of new stuff post episode 300, like really really cool shit um that you'll wanna you wanna join in.

[38:24] Jesse McAnally: Um, and also we're not starting our own streaming service, so we it'll always be that way.

[38:30] Andrew DeWolf: Did you see that shit?

[38:32] Jesse McAnally: Who?

[38:33] Andrew DeWolf: A watcher?

[38:34] Jesse McAnally: Watcher.

[38:34] Andrew DeWolf: Watchers start their own start say they're gonna start their own streaming service and take everything off of YouTube and make people pay money.

[38:40] Jesse McAnally: Doug Watcher?

[38:41] Andrew DeWolf: Doug Watcher. No, some Buzzfeed fuckheads.

[38:45] Jesse McAnally: Oh, okay.

[38:45] Andrew DeWolf: Um, and then they backtracked hard. Um they it was like the the the most cucking I've ever seen on a live TV. And they recreated the thumbnail from the try guys response video, basically.

[38:57] Jesse McAnally: Um speaking of people that get cucked, here's our patron list.

[39:02] Andrew DeWolf: Our current patrons are Melissa Goldman, Danielle Renics, Justin Stampede, Ewan Casty, Monica Thoreau, Blend Brent Black, Lithanius Stacey Coombe, Joseph Evans Green, Mary Lou Choquette, John Vanals, Ross Walker, Meet School Hell, Emily Gracie, Jin A C, Scoot in the Technicolor, Dreamcoat, nothing is certain except Beth and Taxes, Desbian, Mitchell Young, Chai Teacup, Chris Marcote, KG Marie Anastasio, Trevi Joseph, RJ Norriga, Juliet Umb Julia McClennon, Bjorn Herman, Toriana Fraser, Sammy, the Adequate Amount, Jacobson, Kaylee Blazier, Villainous Miss, Sofiana Ali, the Omega Geek, Paige Pearson, Maddie Wargle, Care Bear Cub, who are you?

[39:40] Jesse McAnally: Lisa Erdman, Anna Los Catova, Sarah Dan Bleckier, Evan Ball, Zachary Torres, Moral Morasso, Lisa L, Possessed Washing Machine, Nick Rotin, Puffy Boy, Sidney Hicks, Annabiel, Billy Clifton, Gold Played Kiki Mora, Julia Balster Daughter, Emma Grace, Kara Balda, Socialist Horror, JRL Studios, Joe St. George, and they all sit in the cuck chair at our Patreon.

[40:07] Andrew DeWolf: Um also, we like to hear from our fans, and they often like to let us know what they think of things on our review page of our of our Apple Podcast. Andrew, why don't you read this week's?

[40:20] Jesse McAnally: Oh god.

[40:23] Andrew DeWolf: Unfortunate.

[40:25] Jesse McAnally: That's the title.

[40:26] Andrew DeWolf: And who sent it?

[40:27] Jesse McAnally: I I don't know if I want to dox this person in any way. I don't wanna I don't want to feed the fires here. We're just gonna we're just gonna read it.

[40:34] Andrew DeWolf: Alright. Um I have found the hosts to be very insensitive.

[40:39] Jesse McAnally: I was especially disappointed in the Dear Evan Hansen and Rent episode.

[40:43] Andrew DeWolf: It's always those two.

[40:45] Jesse McAnally: I mean, to be fair, the Rent episode was like our second episode, so I'm sure there's some stuff in there.

[40:49] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, you guys are sure. The Dear Evan Hansen episode, though. Like, I s I feel like I stand by almost everything in that.

[40:55] Jesse McAnally: You guys, you guys had started the hating, hating thing that went just went all over the internet.

[41:00] Andrew DeWolf: Apparently, people from the show listened to that episode, which scares the fuck out of me.

[41:05] Jesse McAnally: Here's a fucking scary thing to say, by the way. If you don't like a show or understand the purpose of it, don't review it.

[41:13] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[41:13] Jesse McAnally: You hear that, critics of Broadway? If you don't like a show, just don't review it.

[41:19] Andrew DeWolf: All reviews should be positive.

[41:21] Jesse McAnally: Always. God, when do we start calling our shit reviews, anyways? I feel like I still don't consider our episodes.

[41:29] Andrew DeWolf: No, we just said a bullshit.

[41:32] Jesse McAnally: What's bullshit?

[41:34] Andrew DeWolf: We give a fucking cheese rating at the end.

[41:36] Jesse McAnally: We literally say we literally have a vague opinion and then give an unrelated cheese that is not like university.

[41:47] Andrew DeWolf: The singer of the rate episode is just Doug Walker talk. I swear to God.

[41:52] Jesse McAnally: Alright, there's more. There's more. Sorry. There are so many more musicals out there that you don't need to complain about and can share how important those ones are to you.

[42:02] Andrew DeWolf: You know that. There's like 300 episodes of our fucking show.

[42:06] Jesse McAnally: There's a lot of episodes like that. Just look at any Sunheimation. You try to find a new musical that you like every single fucking week.

[42:15] Andrew DeWolf: Seriously. Everyone has a favorite musical, and that's the joy of musical theater. There are so many shows, you don't have to like them all.

[42:25] Jesse McAnally: But I'm drawing the line at being rude towards fans of the musicals you don't like.

[42:30] Andrew DeWolf: Especially towards the autistic and mental health community.

[42:33] Jesse McAnally: We didn't do this.

[42:34] Andrew DeWolf: No, you did not. You can't. Like, this is you're being rude to us here.

[42:39] Jesse McAnally: Like, come on. Don't put this out publicly that we're like rude to the autistic community.

[42:44] Andrew DeWolf: Like, what the fuck? I'm I've joined late in the game here. Neither of these two are rude against any community or fans of shows you like.

[42:53] Jesse McAnally: Except Doug Walker's fans.

[42:54] Andrew DeWolf: Except Doug Walker's fans, but those don't care. If you're a Doug Walker fan, then I mean you know what's coming to you.

[43:01] Jesse McAnally: Just get back in the cuck share.

[43:03] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, Cinema Snob showed on my homepage a couple days ago, and I was like, oh, he's still uploading? Fuck him.

[43:09] Jesse McAnally: That's just simply not what the theater community is about. Do better.

[43:12] Andrew DeWolf: The theater, okay. Can we talk about the theater community and what it's about right now?

[43:16] Jesse McAnally: Right now it's about bullying a girl that didn't do the best line read in Legally Blonde, who happened to be five years old.

[43:22] Andrew DeWolf: Um, that's what the theater community's about right now?

[43:25] Jesse McAnally: Yeah. So there's this girl that did the Courtney take her break line. She's like five years old, and she like had a five year old reading.

[43:32] Andrew DeWolf: Courtney, take your break.

[43:34] Jesse McAnally: I do great for my best clientele. It's a gift from me to like, you know, normal school playthings.

[43:39] Andrew DeWolf: And people are fucking making fun of her so much that her mom had to come out, and you know who one of those people were?

[43:44] Jesse McAnally: Who?

[43:45] Andrew DeWolf: Who?

[43:46] Jesse McAnally: Ben fucking Platt.

[43:48] Andrew DeWolf: Jesus Christ.

[43:51] Jesse McAnally: So, yeah, that's what the theater community is about.

[43:54] Andrew DeWolf: I love how Platt was harassed constantly for the Dear Evan Hansen movie and just does this. Like, I'm just I'm tired of this shit.

[44:01] Jesse McAnally: You know, like the theater community has been calling us bigots for the past couple fucking weeks, and I'm a little sick of it.

[44:06] Andrew DeWolf: Like, last I flicked the last review we read, we were misogynists.

[44:09] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, yeah, you hated women.

[44:11] Andrew DeWolf: We hate women so much, man.

[44:13] Jesse McAnally: There's a woman on this podcast. You can't hate women.

[44:15] Andrew DeWolf: And when there wasn't this woman, there was a different woman.

[44:17] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, we you were like, I'm not even using that excuse. I haven't said shit.

[44:20] Andrew DeWolf: Like, get the fuck out of here. These two are not misogynists.

[44:23] Jesse McAnally: Like, at all. You wanna know why they claimed you're a misogynist?

[44:26] Andrew DeWolf: Because we complimented women and not men, apparently, and that's like internalized misogyny.

[44:31] Jesse McAnally: I don't know. Either way, I don't care. We're done talking about musicals in a few weeks, anyways.

[44:35] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, not forever.

[44:37] Jesse McAnally: Not for I have a musical on my list.

[44:40] Andrew DeWolf: We're still gonna talk about musicals.

[44:42] Jesse McAnally: We're just not gonna be...

[44:43] Andrew DeWolf: Only talk about musicals, yeah.

[44:45] Jesse McAnally: We're making our exit from the theater community.

[44:49] Andrew DeWolf: We are bowing out of the theater community.

[44:54] Jesse McAnally: I don't think we were. Is this ever part of the theater community?

[44:56] Andrew DeWolf: I feel like people resented the fact that it was if it even was.

[45:02] Jesse McAnally: I feel like that's the only thing I've felt from the theater community is fucking resentment.

[45:06] Andrew DeWolf: So, yeah. Um, thanks for the review. Be sure to come back and like and subscribe.

[45:14] Jesse McAnally: Sorry, we didn't love your special boy, Dear Evan Hansen.

[45:18] Andrew DeWolf: Dear, uh, who is played by Ben Platt, who didn't agree with that.

[45:21] Jesse McAnally: I would like to apologize to the mental health community and the theater community about not liking ukulele The toxic gossip train crawling all the way to Ben Platt's house.

[45:37] Andrew DeWolf: I know that trend died, but I keep thinking about it.

[45:40] Jesse McAnally: Oh yeah, yeah, you know, 9-11 for you Kulala uses.

[45:43] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, yeah, cut that now.

[45:45] Jesse McAnally: Let's get back to the show.

[45:56] Andrew DeWolf: So let's talk about some of these songs. Um, the opening number time, which sets up a lot of recurring themes and the idea that time is ticking and eventually death will take us all.

[46:06] Jesse McAnally: Andrew, what'd you think of that?

[46:10] Andrew DeWolf: The pain is chipping, but the foundation's alright.

[46:14] Jesse McAnally: I wanna run like my excuse to run.

[46:19] Andrew DeWolf: I wanna run to you.

[46:27] Jesse McAnally: Excuse me, sign on a rise.

[47:12] Andrew DeWolf: Musical wants to focus on the they die at the end aspect and more than like anything else. Um, so this is an interesting opening number, I think.

[47:21] Jesse McAnally: Um, I don't think it's necessarily bad or anything, but I will say the lyric, uh, time time time time. It was never mine, mine, mine, mine, is not good, in my opinion.

[47:32] Andrew DeWolf: Not at least not great. I feel like we could have done a little better there.

[47:36] Jesse McAnally: Um, musically, though, you've already kind of said it. A lot of these sound the same. It's sappy piano pop.

[47:44] Andrew DeWolf: Um, it's like if Taylor Swift wrote a musical.

[47:47] Jesse McAnally: Actually, it's better than that. I feel like that's too big of an insult.

[47:51] Andrew DeWolf: I wouldn't make that argument. This show doesn't talk about like the 1830s without racist sort of thing like that.

[47:57] Jesse McAnally: She's never really that dead.

[48:01] Andrew DeWolf: Um, yeah, just talks about the 1970s without racist.

[48:05] Jesse McAnally: Ah no, but according to Pitchfork, have a pig is better.

[48:09] Andrew DeWolf: So yeah, I don't know.

[48:12] Jesse McAnally: Uh, time time, time, time, mine, mine, mine. I think it's a fine song.

[48:17] Andrew DeWolf: Uh, I think that it says some interesting things once you get through the whole show.

[48:22] Jesse McAnally: Do you wanna know the most frustrating part of this album?

[48:26] Andrew DeWolf: Um, for me at least.

[48:27] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, whatever.

[48:28] Andrew DeWolf: Um, this is something that stresses me out about a lot of modern musicals.

[48:34] Jesse McAnally: They all have the same titles as other songs in musical theater.

[48:39] Andrew DeWolf: Like, I'd say almost all of them have like, and it's a problem with specificity in these lyrics.

[48:46] Jesse McAnally: Like sometimes they're very good at being specific and describing a situation like when she's singing about him and the table that he must have built.

[48:53] Andrew DeWolf: But then you got songs like Kiss Me, or I Love You More, or If This Is Love, or Sadness and Joy.

[49:02] Jesse McAnally: Um, where it just kind of feels like general lovely platitudes as opposed to like specificity, or carry you home.

[49:11] Andrew DeWolf: All these things could be just about anything.

[49:14] Jesse McAnally: Forever. There's a fucking Beach Boy song called that.

[49:17] Andrew DeWolf: Like nothing forever.

[49:21] Jesse McAnally: Yeah. And it makes these very indistinguishable.

[49:24] Andrew DeWolf: And I know song titles isn't really something to grade on, but if I'm listening to an album and I want to hear one song, it's not helping me to stand out much.

[49:36] Jesse McAnally: I mean, to be fair, this show does at least have a song called Iron in the Free.

[49:40] Andrew DeWolf: I was gonna say that's great.

[49:43] Jesse McAnally: I love it. And that is the exception that proves the rule, and it is one of the most effective and specific songs in the entire show, which I think is worth talking about right now.

[49:53] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[50:01] Jesse McAnally: She left the iron in the fridge.

[50:08] Andrew DeWolf: It was the second time that week.

[50:25] Jesse McAnally: But there's so much that we haven't done.

[51:07] Andrew DeWolf: Iron in the fridge is about um all time getting sad that your partner has uh dementia.

[51:14] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[51:15] Andrew DeWolf: Um, it is sad.

[51:17] Jesse McAnally: Uh, they do it. This honestly, this is one of the more effective songs in the show, and it feels the most unique because the concept of an iron being in the fridge is a unique idea that you will remember.

[51:28] Andrew DeWolf: And a haunting visual.

[51:29] Jesse McAnally: Yeah. Like the idea that it kept happening, and it was a sign that things are getting worse.

[51:35] Andrew DeWolf: And looking back on the stuff like back when she could remember, like thinking about that while she's going through this memory, tough memory time.

[51:42] Jesse McAnally: Like that's powerful. Thinking back to the little stuff.

[51:45] Andrew DeWolf: And I mean, the thing is it's effective and it's good, but it's not like we haven't seen that very specific theme done better, where I think maybe leaning more into the like the death is coming for us at all times and enjoy life while you're here might have been a better theme and a more novel theme that I can tell that they're very interested in.

[52:08] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, but then they read a bunch of songs about how they're horny.

[52:12] Andrew DeWolf: Uh, they kinda undercut the death thing.

[52:17] Jesse McAnally: But I think correct me if I'm wrong, as far as like a song that I think will be the most marketable and the most romantic one is the If This Is Love.

[52:32] Andrew DeWolf: I've waited every day to feel the way I feel.

[52:35] Jesse McAnally: Not in my stomach, the kind that never heal.

[52:39] Andrew DeWolf: Butterflies that fly in me and never seem to go away.

[52:46] Jesse McAnally: Sick to my stomach when I think about his space.

[52:50] Andrew DeWolf: But in a good way, in a way I can't replace.

[52:53] Jesse McAnally: No one can stop this.

[52:55] Andrew DeWolf: It's almost like a Farrakine.

[53:00] Jesse McAnally: If this is love, I'm not ready. If this is love, why am I so unsteady?

[53:00] Andrew DeWolf: If this is love, why did no one tell me the pain that I would feel?

[53:07] Jesse McAnally: If this is love, maybe I'm ready.

[53:19] Andrew DeWolf: I'm in my head and if this is love.

[53:23] Jesse McAnally: I think I'm in it if this is if this is if this is love.

[53:32] Andrew DeWolf: Which is the one that Allie sings early on.

[53:35] Jesse McAnally: Um about, you know, like and it's the one I can hum.

[53:35] Andrew DeWolf: It's the one I like still is in my head.

[53:40] Jesse McAnally: If this is love, I'm not ready. If this is love, why am I so unsteady?

[53:45] Andrew DeWolf: Like that's the one where I'm like, man, they should have had her a reprise of this somewhere.

[53:50] Jesse McAnally: Like this is your main song. This is your title song, baby.

[53:54] Andrew DeWolf: Baby.

[53:56] Jesse McAnally: Like, come about in act two with middle Allie singing this.

[54:01] Andrew DeWolf: Or anything. Use themes, please.

[54:04] Jesse McAnally: Or even like have her sing this with the fiancé that we don't care about.

[54:17] Andrew DeWolf: He has a name, but I don't care to learn it.

[54:19] Jesse McAnally: James Marston.

[54:20] Andrew DeWolf: If this is love, then I don't want it. If this is love, then I can'm because that could be like conflicted.

[54:24] Jesse McAnally: Like, because she's just a new guy.

[54:26] Andrew DeWolf: Like, there's so many ch. I think that's the theme of this episode is wasted potential because there's so much potential in the idea of a Notebook musical.

[54:39] Jesse McAnally: I think The Notebook is just it's so simple. Like it's so simple that there's a lot of potential there because the only thing that exists in it is the emotions of it.

[54:50] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[54:51] Jesse McAnally: There's no character motivations outside of whatever the big emotion is. You know, it's literally like the only motivations the character has is they're either they're horny or they're in love, which are kind of or they're fighting.

[54:56] Andrew DeWolf: Or they're fighting.

[55:06] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, like there's no like third thing. Like, Noah doesn't have a moment where he's like, oh man, I need to improve my career.

[55:16] Andrew DeWolf: Like it's my career is fixing this house.

[55:21] Jesse McAnally: It's fixing the house the rest of the show.

[55:23] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[55:24] Jesse McAnally: With his dad that's on screen for two seconds and dies.

[55:28] Andrew DeWolf: He dies. You know who else I think is an important character? We're bringing up the other fiancé. It's the lady that Noah would casually fuck.

[55:39] Andrew DeWolf: Oh yeah.

[55:40] Jesse McAnally: That Rachel McAdams or Allie meets, and it's not melodrama. It's just like a nice little scene where she gets to meet that person and they get to lay-eyed die. Like, I think that actually is one of those things that adds a little edge, a little interest to Noah.

[55:54] Andrew DeWolf: A little more to who he is than guy in love with Allie. It's like, oh shit, he actually he has like needs, and he doesn't just uh sit there waiting for her all day every single day.

[56:06] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[56:07] Andrew DeWolf: And this musical takes the very, I will give credit, bold idea of removing these people and basically saying they're not characters, they are symbols.

[56:21] Jesse McAnally: Um, and by do by breaking them into three people, um, like they are now symbolizing um youth, middle age, and elderly, rather than this is Allie, who is our character.

[56:35] Andrew DeWolf: Um, there are times when having three variations of a character is very effective. The obvious one is Fun Home, where it's three distinct stories happening at the same time, as opposed to a linear narrative, which I think is a better choice where everyone kind of feels like they got an even space.

[56:54] Jesse McAnally: And the other one, this is gonna be one of the boldest things I will ever say on this podcast.

[57:01] Andrew DeWolf: The Cher Show.

[57:02] Jesse McAnally: Um The Cher Show?

[57:05] Andrew DeWolf: What?

[57:07] Jesse McAnally: Yes, with um McKenzie.

[57:10] Andrew DeWolf: Stephanie J. Block?

[57:11] Jesse McAnally: Stephanie J. Block and Teal Wicks, where they do go chronologically, but they will jump in between it, and it will you will have a song about the younger version reacting to what's happening to the older version emotionally.

[57:26] Andrew DeWolf: Like, there's an incredible sequence in The Cher Show where the youngest Cher Babe reacts to old Cher's movie career and sings "And the Beat Goes On" about that, and thinking about how that means to her in youthful. It does some really smart things about the younger versions and the older versions playing off of each other that this doesn't really do, except in one song.

[57:51] Jesse McAnally: I am proud to say that I followed my toy, I bogoed my heart, I learned this one while the barrier part.

[58:01] Andrew DeWolf: I bust through the corners with a high cancel.

[58:14] Jesse McAnally: I know that I love the way that I spent. And it's sad when I have to compliment The Cher Show, which is fine.

[58:45] Andrew DeWolf: It's fine, guys.

[58:47] Jesse McAnally: But it does that one thing particularly well. The Cher Show, I am so tempted to do an episode on, just so I can make you guys watch The Cher Show.

[58:59] Andrew DeWolf: I love Cher, so I will not object to that.

[59:02] Jesse McAnally: Um, I am indifferent on Cher except for Moonstruck. But speaking of opinions on Cher, what is our overall thoughts on The Notebook musical and our cheese rating? Andrew, why don't you start us off?

[59:12] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, um. So do we want to just give thoughts on the everything or just everything.

[59:19] Jesse McAnally: Everything.

[59:20] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, so as far as the movie. The movie I think is uh good for what it is. Um I don't know if I would just call it outright good, because it's I don't it's it's a little bit cheesy in for that, but I I think for what it's going for, it's it's it nails it. And uh if you are in the target audience you have probably already seen it multiple times so I don't even know why I would I would need to recommend it to you in any way. So yeah. Um the musical I don't I I haven't seen the musical I've only listened to it so the context for that maybe seeing it is a different experience.

[1:00:03] Jesse McAnally: Um but the music is it does all kind of blend together a little bit and I feel like thematically it doesn't give me what I am looking for from this. I would have liked to see more focus on the love aspects of it and less focus on the dementia slash death um I just you can say that I I am interested in stuff about dementia or whatever. I just feel like that's not what I took away from the movie. I feel like I felt like in the movie that whole aspect feels more like a framing device than a like important part of the story uh whereas in the musical it's like everything's building to that so I I don't know.

[1:00:50] Andrew DeWolf: Um but as far as the cheese rating goes I'm gonna give it a and I I don't actually know how to pronounce this I'm gonna have to figure this out it's a Louisiana lagniappe cheddar cheese lagniappe cheddar cheese which apparently goes very well with uh crab boil which is something they eat in uh the uh movie.

[1:01:15] Jesse McAnally: He also drinks a lot of Coronas if I remember the movie, right?

[1:01:18] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, he does drink. Well, that's because it takes place in 2004 before the coronavirus took in.

[1:01:25] Jesse McAnally: Um, I I watched the film recently, and I just remember thinking I I would love a corona right now. Like I was like, that was why I needed the five dollar tissue box of The Notebook. God damn.

[1:01:39] Liz Eston: Liz, your thoughts and your cheese rating.

[1:01:41] Liz Eston: Um the movie, it is what it is. It's probably the best Nickel best quality Nicholas Sparks movie that I've personally seen. I haven't seen them with the olds in it, so like I can't say about those, but it is. I've seen them. It is the best Nicholas Sparks movie. Just go check out our Nicholas Sparks episode for any further details about Nicholas Sparks stuff. But like, The Notebook, now that I've seen it, it's it's a solid movie. If you're you've probably, like Andrew said, you've probably already seen it if you're in the target audience. And if your girlfriend asks you to watch it, just watch it with them. Just they'll be so happy.

[1:02:18] Andrew DeWolf: You will know the moments where you can just start like, you know, kissing her neck.

[1:02:22] Liz Eston: Yeah. You know, nothing gets a girl more hot and bothered than the house scene in The Notebook. She will appreciate it dearly.

[1:02:30] Andrew DeWolf: But it is the only film I've actually, PG 13 film I've seen, where the deleted scenes are just extended scenes of them fucking with nudity.

[1:02:40] Liz Eston: Amazing. Uh, but yeah, like so in terms of like the musical, it feels very like overworked for what it is. Like The Notebook is a very simple story of two people who go through cut the trials of love. Like, all the steps involved with that, class differences, house renovations, fucking on the floor and failing. Like, there's a bunch of shit that happens. And like it's very simple and to the point. And the show feels very like overworked.

[1:03:10] Andrew DeWolf: Like Paul Hollywood overworked.

[1:03:13] Liz Eston: Like, I'm not gonna try to imitate his accent, but like it just feels like there's a little too much thought put into this. And the songs. Also, I've only heard the music smell. I have not seen the show. I don't know what it's like on stage. It could be a big difference maker, but I don't have that experience. The songs just all kind of blend, and I can't identify one from the other, except for like the first one and the iron in the fridge song, and maybe like that one song where they're really horny for each other only because it kind of scarred me how he kept singing, she kept singing about his chest and how hot it is he built a table, and I got flashbacks of that one song from uh Love Never Dies for like 10 seconds. But yeah, it's like it's fine.

[1:03:54] Andrew DeWolf: Like if you're into The Notebook, like I would say check out the soundtrack, but it doesn't blow me away. It's not bad, but it doesn't blow me away.

[1:04:02] Liz Eston: So uh for cheese rating, I'm gonna give it pimento cheese, because there's a lot of stuff going on in there, and it kind of doesn't make sense.

[1:04:11] Jesse McAnally: Fair enough. Um The Notebook is one of the best romantic movies with the asterisk not comedies, romantic movies of the last 20 years. I can't think of a better one.

[1:04:22] Andrew DeWolf: Um, as far as just a straight romance goes. I think it's truly like a classic, and its praise is deserved, and there hasn't been one to topple it down.

[1:04:36] Liz Eston: Um, this musical should have been a home run, and I feel like there's just a lot of I won't say wasted opportunity wasted potential, but wasted opportunities and things that I really think some more love and care and a little less trying to market it toward the TikTok audience would have helped this.

[1:04:55] Jesse McAnally: Um so I am going to give this a cheesy lunch meltdown, which is a song performed by Ingrid Michaelson's about grilled cheese sandwiches on a show I've never heard of called The Helpsters, and we're gonna watch it.

[1:05:10] Andrew DeWolf: Ingrid Michaelson's!

[1:05:12] Jesse McAnally: Beep, beep, beep, beep, da boom doop, beep, beep, beep, beep.

[1:05:25] Andrew DeWolf: Cody.

[1:05:30] Jesse McAnally: I like bulky sandwiches.

[1:05:35] Andrew DeWolf: This is what my girls are.

[1:05:40] Jesse McAnally: She says please pass the spatula. I can flip it upside down.

[1:05:45] Andrew DeWolf: And I'd say that's spectacular.

[1:05:47] Jesse McAnally: It's a cheesy lunch meltdown. It's a cheesy lunch meltdown.

[1:05:55] Andrew DeWolf: Not gonna lie, it's better than any song in The Notebook.

[1:05:57] Jesse McAnally: That show is still uh on Apple TV.

[1:06:01] Andrew DeWolf: I I truly unironically love that song.

[1:06:05] Jesse McAnally: That was lovely. And what a what a find for our show, right?

[1:06:15] Andrew DeWolf: I do not know.

[1:06:15] Jesse McAnally: I do die. I I have how to wear that puppet's name Cody, which is a very normal name.

[1:06:21] Andrew DeWolf: Come on, puppet Richie.

[1:06:23] Jesse McAnally: See, Richie sounds new. That sounds a good puppet name.

[1:06:26] Andrew DeWolf: Dave's the puppet.

[1:06:28] Jesse McAnally: Dave is a bad puppet name.

[1:06:31] Andrew DeWolf: Dave Land.

[1:06:32] Jesse McAnally: Speaking of bad puppet names, thank you guys for watching. We did our Notebook episode. Please follow us on Spotify and iTunes at Musicals with Cheese.

[1:06:41] Andrew DeWolf: We're on Twitter at Cheesy Meet Schools, Patreon, Music Schools for Cheese, Instagram Music Schools of Cheese, YouTube page Music Schools of Cheese, Patreon only podcast, Patreon with Cheese Talking about Has Been Hotel.

[1:06:49] Jesse McAnally: I don't love it. Email us at musicaltheatrelives@gmail.com. Our keeper of the cheese is Juliet Antonio. This show is edited by Andrew DeWolf. Thank you to the Broadway Podcast Network for having us on the platform and not kicking us off.

[1:07:02] Andrew DeWolf: You know, for talking shit about the Broadway establishment.

[1:07:06] Jesse McAnally: We are ruining the Broadway community.

[1:07:14] Andrew DeWolf: Any other thoughts?

[1:07:17] Jesse McAnally: We didn't ruin the Broadway community.

[1:07:20] Andrew DeWolf: The Broadway community ruined us.

[1:07:23] Jesse McAnally: Fuck if you aren't right.

[1:07:24] Andrew DeWolf: Andrew Antigua, you'd the dementia ward now that you've said that.

[1:07:33] Jesse McAnally: Alright, we'll see you next time on Musicals with Cheese.

[1:07:48] ♪ Musical number: "If This Is Love" — performed by Ingrid Michaelson's ♪