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[0:00] Jess McEnally: Oh why, hello, I did not see you there. How are you doing today? Well, while you're in the room, today's show is brought to you by the extremely kind donations by our donors over at Patreon. Andrew, why don't you tell folks what Patreon is and who who's supporting us on Patreon?

[0:16] Andrew DeWolf: Well, our Patreon is a place where you can go to support us financially if you'd like and receive some extra content. We do after parties after most of our episodes. We do, uh, commentaries every once in a while. Uh, quite often actually recently. We're gonna be putting out a lot more. Uh, right now we have, uh, uh, Jan Janny Wary going on, or we just recently finished up with January.

[0:39] Jess McEnally: No, it's we still got another week left of January.

[0:43] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, one more week left of January when we just have a January commentaries. January.

[0:50] Andrew DeWolf: I I don't our current patrons who are supporting us right now are Stephanie L., Terry Needleman, Max Lunig, Benjamin Learer, Lily Accles, Mackenzie Horner, John Donna, Terran the Duck, Melissa Goldman, Jess Lightning, Ewan Cassidy, Haley McDonald, Tess Skeer, Colin McLeod, Fire of September, Mina Moniri, Monica Thoreau, Brent Black, Haley Murray, Alice in Wonderland, Sean O'Neal, B-Way Flicks, Mikhail Joan, uh, Lathaniel Stacy Coomb, and Joseph Evans Green.

[1:18] Jess McEnally: Wow, that's a lot of people, and they're all giving us money. Uh, they're all supporting us and getting extra content for it. Wow, we're such sellouts. Thank you guys. We love you. Um, also, you guys should join us in because these folks give us a little financial support that helps us keep the lights on here, Musicals with Cheese. If you would like to join them in supporting us and get tons of fun perks such as patron-only commentaries, our episodes a day early, or even earlier, the after parties. So much cool shit. Come join us over at Patreon.

[1:49] Jess McEnally: Alright, Andrew. Do you think we should start this show?

[1:51] Andrew DeWolf: I think we should start this shit up.

[1:58] Jess McEnally: Hello, I'm Jess McEnally.

[2:00] Andrew DeWolf: And I'm Andrew DeWolf.

[2:03] Jess McEnally: And welcome to Musicals with Cheese, a podcast where I try to get Andrew to like musical theater. How are you doing today, Mr. Andrew D. Wolf?

[2:09] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, you know, just another day sleeping my way up the ladder, you know, getting up the, uh, getting up there.

[2:16] Jess McEnally: Oh, really? Who'd you have today?

[2:17] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, Donald Trump.

[2:19] Jess McEnally: Oh, did you spank him with a copy of Time with his face on it?

[2:23] Andrew DeWolf: You think he'd like that?

[2:25] Jess McEnally: I mean, that's the story of him and Stormy Daniels. Apparently, she did that. And apparently his penis looks like, um, Toad from the Mario games.

[2:35] Andrew DeWolf: That's orange. Like, this is all her description. I I'd willing to believe it, but also, you know.

[2:37] Jess McEnally: You know?

[2:42] Andrew DeWolf: I just, her name's Stormy. How much can you trust that?

[2:45] Jess McEnally: You can't really trust that because when I hear Stormy Daniels, I'm picturing like a country music singer that is drugged out and a loser.

[2:55] Andrew DeWolf: Um, I imagine a sexy weatherman. Hi, I'm Stormy Daniels, and we've got eight inches coming for you. Bow chicken chicka. Wow!

[3:03] Jess McEnally: Alright, well, well, what are we talking about today?

[3:06] Andrew DeWolf: I think we've completely lost track. Um, this week we are talking about Andrew Lloyd Webber and Tim Rice's Evita.

[3:18] Jess McEnally: Don't cry for me, Argentina. Or I am ordinary, unimportant, and undeserving of such attention. Unless we all are. I think we've all right on Let's Rain on my people. And when it's your time to die, you remember. They fired those cannons. Sang Lamentations. Not just for Eva. For Argentina. Not just forever. For everybody. So share my glory.

[4:08] Jess McEnally: Evita is a musical with music by Andrew Lloyd Webber and lyrics and book by Tim Rice. It concentrates on the life of Argentine political leader Eva Perón, the second wife of Argentine President Juan Perón. The story follows Evita's early life, rise to power, charity work, and eventual death. The musical began as a rock opera concept album released in 1976. Its success led to productions in London's West End in 1978, winning the Laurence Olivier Award for Best Musical, and on Broadway a year later, where it has been the first British musical to receive the Tony Award for Best Musical.

[4:45] Jess McEnally: And it wasn't the last, because Andrew Lloyd Webber still had more to say. This has been followed by a string of professional tours in worldwide productions and numerous cast albums, as well as a 1996 film adaptation of the musical. The musical was revived in London in 2006 and on Broadway in 2012. It toured the UK again in 2013 to 2014 before running for 55 West End performances at the Dominion Theatre in September to October of 2014.

[5:17] Andrew DeWolf: Um, well, it's certainly, uh, in the Weberverse, that's for sure.

[5:22] Jess McEnally: What makes something in the Weberverse? Cause I feel like we've jumped over all over the place for the Weberverse. Please explain it to the uninitiated.

[5:33] Andrew DeWolf: All of Andrew Lloyd Webber's musicals take place in the same universe. It's like the, uh, it's like the MCU, but it's, uh, it's the Weberverse. And, uh, so this is in the same universe as, uh, Cats, as Phantom of the Opera, you know, uh, all those great classics. Um, their Bible has Jesus Christ Superstar in it. I mean, it's just, that's just how it works.

[5:56] Jess McEnally: Alright, alright. And how does this fit in there?

[5:59] Andrew DeWolf: Um, well, this is just, uh, an incidental story from Argentina. There's no Cats in it, so it fits your premise.

[6:12] Jess McEnally: Um, we're really gonna hit some bumpy road with the Weberverse as soon as we do Starlight Express. You know, the one about like anthropomorphized trains on roller skates.

[6:23] Andrew DeWolf: What now? What did you say?

[6:23] Jess McEnally: I'm sorry, I must have had something in my ears. Uh, what did you say?

[6:30] Andrew DeWolf: Andrew Lloyd Webber wrote a musical where humans wear roller skates and skate around the stage called Starlight Express, where they're supposed to be like live living trains.

[6:41] Jess McEnally: It's gonna be kind of like Pixar, I think. You know how people have the Pixar theory where the cars are after everyone dies?

[6:48] Andrew DeWolf: In the Weberverse, everyone becomes trains.

[6:53] Jess McEnally: I mean, uh, if it tracks. I'm just glad that there is a Thomas the Tank Engine musical out there, you know? And Andrew Lloyd Webber was so into that show he got behind it.

[7:04] Andrew DeWolf: You ain't wrong. Andrew Lloyd Webber probably plays Sir Topham Hatt himself on stage.

[7:11] Jess McEnally: Is George Carlin getting a cameo in this?

[7:13] Andrew DeWolf: I hope so. I mean, I'll conductor I'll get, uh, I'll get Alec Baldwin in there, you know.

[7:19] Jess McEnally: I forgot about that. I forgot he did a thing. Get the whole crew in there for Thomas the Tank Engine by Andrew Lloyd Webber.

[7:31] Andrew DeWolf: Um, yeah. So Evita, like, honestly, aside from it being in the Weberverse, what is your initial opinion? Because you watched both the original musical and the movie.

[7:42] Andrew DeWolf: Mm-hmm. I think the music is very good and the storytelling is very good. Um, I feel like as a historical piece, there's a bit to be wanted, but if you're just looking at it as a musical and as a story, it's very, very good.

[8:02] Jess McEnally: Okay. Now you did some research on your own, and you found a lot of historical inaccuracies and biases that bother you.

[8:11] Andrew DeWolf: Well, yeah. I mean, I'm not gonna defend the Perones, because I think they probably were awful. I mean, they saved Nazis and Peronism is basically the worst parts of communism, socialism, and Marxism.

[8:25] Jess McEnally: Yeah.

[8:25] Andrew DeWolf: So the Perones themselves are awful, but I think when you're telling a historical piece, it's best to try to maintain a level of neutral objectivism and being neutral. And when you have a narrator who is literally just shitting on your main character the entire show, it maybe isn't the best way to maintain that objectivism.

[8:51] Jess McEnally: Well, the point is they were trying to get like this idea of someone on the ground, like the everyman getting their opinion of the elite, uh, Perones.

[9:01] Andrew DeWolf: I suppose, but, uh, he isn't the only everyman because obviously a lot of people liked them, since he's like in crowds of people that are chanting their name, you know.

[9:12] Jess McEnally: Well, it's kind of, it's a weird. It is a weird thing that Evita used in real life that she had her, her people who, the descamisados, who were the poor, the podunk, like people that were like, I'm gonna get you jobs, we're gonna bring back the oil. Like she was the original Trump promising all these things. Except unlike Trump, she actually worked her way to the top, so to say.

[9:41] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, yes, yes.

[9:43] Jess McEnally: Well, I mean, she's really sort of like Trump only started with a small loan of a million dollars, I mean.

[9:53] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, yes, yes. How did he survive?

[9:57] Jess McEnally: But she was playing to the lower crest of a crowd. A lot of fascists do that too. Like the fascist movements are usually, uh, they disguise themselves as like a ground-up movement and like feed on the poor and, uh, that type of thing.

[10:14] Andrew DeWolf: Mm-hmm.

[10:15] Jess McEnally: And it is, it is biased. It is unbelievably biased.

[10:22] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[10:23] Jess McEnally: But you also have Andrew Lloyd Webber that thinks she's terrible, and Tim Rice that thinks she's sympathetic, and they somehow meet in the middle, and you do feel the sympathetic lean, especially in the movie adaptation.

[10:34] Andrew DeWolf: I would just have preferred if they kept it a, if honestly, I would have just liked the story about her and just drop the Shay character and just, I mean, let the audience decide. I mean, she's obviously doing some pretty bad stuff, so I think the audience would generally get the idea that yeah, this isn't a great person, but I actually get you actually get the real story rather than, oh, here's a bunch of biased stuff, and like, oh, her charity work was awful because, you know, I said so, I guess, and you know, just taking rumors as well as facts, like the thing with, um, the musician taking her when in reality it wasn't that wasn't the case, and just all that sort of thing.

[11:13] Jess McEnally: But let's not place all the blame of the non-objective views, um, on the two composers.

[11:20] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, yeah, they probably could have done a little more research than they did, but they based the story.

[11:24] Jess McEnally: I'm just giving it a one-star.

[11:26] Andrew DeWolf: They didn't read Mary Main's biography of Evita, The Woman in the Whip, which drew heavily upon the accounts of anti-Peronist Argentinians. Um, but basically people were like, no, that was kind of, that was a very biased book, so I think we should give this show one star, because honestly, they didn't research this show enough. Andrew Lloyd Webber just, I mean, I love musicals, but like he didn't research this.

[11:58] Jess McEnally: And it's obvious.

[12:06] Andrew DeWolf: I'm no, but honestly, it's very easy to move past all of that though, because a lot of the score is fantastic, and I mean, if you're not like some sort of history buff, you're not gonna be that, you're not gonna be that upset that they're, uh, slandering quote unquote, uh, Eva Perón.

[12:24] Jess McEnally: Mm-hmm.

[12:25] Andrew DeWolf: Um, I, this is my favorite Andrew Lloyd Webber musical. Like I think this is tied up there with Jesus Christ Superstar. Like occasionally they switch places, but mo, they're neck and neck.

[12:36] Jess McEnally: The music is everything else is just so much lower.

[12:38] Andrew DeWolf: The music is very similar to Jesus Christ Superstar. This has that kind of like prog rock sort of rock guitar in a lot of places. I like that they add like that, uh, Spanish flair a lot of times too.

[12:51] Jess McEnally: Um, yeah, it, and was this, this was their third show or it's our their second like intended show, whereas Joseph was a commission show. So they wrote Jesus Christ Superstar, that was a huge hit, so they went on to do this, which is basically the same story if you think about it like down to its bare bones. You have a messiah of a character that dies at 33 and people praise them as a saint afterwards, and you have someone that's critical of them throughout it.

[13:22] Andrew DeWolf: That's true.

[13:23] Jess McEnally: It's basically the same story.

[13:24] Andrew DeWolf: They set it up almost the same. They give it a bit more of a Spanish flair, and this is a much more historical basis rather than a biblical basis. Um, but yeah, it is a very similar setup to the story. The music is very similar. Um, but it it's very good. And another thing that's cool about this show is the movie adaptation's actually pretty decent as well. It is the only good film adaptation of an Andrew Lloyd Webber musical. Um, well, you could say that up until 2019. Uh, when Cats came out, and then now of course there is a second one. I know people are out there, like, I know you're selling you're saying a joke here with the Cats thing. But yes, but there are people that probably would defend the Phantom of the Opera one.

[14:15] Jess McEnally: No, no one fucking likes the Phantom of the Opera movie.

[14:17] Andrew DeWolf: Really? Nobody likes that?

[14:19] Jess McEnally: Nobody likes that. Um, but the one people do like, and I like, but I'm not sure it's as representative of the show is Jesus Christ Superstar. I think on its own, that's a fine movie, but it is so drenched in 70s nonsense that it's hard to take as an actual film.

[14:37] Andrew DeWolf: No, but like Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat with uh what's his name? I mean uh fucking Osman.

[14:50] Jess McEnally: No. No, this is the best adaptation of an Andrew Lloyd Webber musical to film.

[14:56] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, but the only good one, I don't know about that.

[14:59] Jess McEnally: I mean I do think it's the only good one.

[15:02] Andrew DeWolf: Okay.

[15:02] Jess McEnally: It could definitely be better as well.

[15:04] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, yeah, I'm not saying it's perfect, but as far as quality goes, you've got a gradient, and this is the furthest into the green gradient.

[15:13] Jess McEnally: That's true. You have this, then Jesus Christ Superstar, then Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat, way above both of these. And then at the very bottom you have Cats.

[15:24] Andrew DeWolf: And Phantom of the Opera.

[15:26] Jess McEnally: Oh, and Phantom of the Opera. Oh, Phantom of the Opera's above Cats, let's be real.

[15:29] Andrew DeWolf: I mean I don't know. I'd rather watch Cats. I've seen Cats twice in theater, so I mean, I have like a movie rating scale that's like a horseshoe. Where it's like the worse it gets, the better, the more watchable it becomes. So you have things like Cats over on one side, and then like right in the middle is the worst place to be, and that's where like Phantom of the Opera would be.

[15:49] Jess McEnally: I mean, Cats is worse, but it's more fun to watch because it's so bad.

[15:55] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, can I just throw something out there that I'm discovering at this moment that makes me want to fucking vomit?

[16:00] Jess McEnally: Oh god, what is it?

[16:01] Andrew DeWolf: Do you know what Andrew Lloyd Webber's next musical is?

[16:04] Jess McEnally: Thomas the Tank Engine 2?

[16:06] Andrew DeWolf: No, Cinderella. Andrew Lloyd Webber's Cinderella. We needed another one, right? She's gonna get some big number. And like, what does Cinderella get a big number about? Because you can't you ha she's gonna write like a Don't Cry for Me Argentina or uh or a Memory or something like that. She's gonna write that for this show. But Andrew Lloyd Webber has spent the latter half of his career basically rewriting old stories. Like he did the Wizard of Oz Broadway show or musical, and he added about four new songs and then called it Andrew Lloyd Webber's The Wizard of Oz.

[16:41] Jess McEnally: Of course he did.

[16:43] Andrew DeWolf: Of course he did. Or School of Rock, which is just like the movie School of Rock, and he wrote a couple songs. I don't even understand why would you make a School of Rock musical? Like the movie's fine, but like it's not even that good. It's like it's okay. I like the movie okay, it's fun to watch. But like, why?

[17:02] Jess McEnally: I mean, it's got some it's not a terrible musical. It is his most good musical since Sunset Boulevard.

[17:10] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[17:11] Jess McEnally: And yeah, that sounds like a backhanded compliment, and that's because it is.

[17:16] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, uh quite a bit. Alright, let's get back on track here. Evita. What's what is your favorite parts of Evita?

[17:24] Jess McEnally: Okay, let me compliment Andrew Lloyd Webber before I tear him down because you know I love that so much. Um, you know how I've always said to you, and you basically agree with me, Andrew Lloyd Webber doesn't really write a musical. He writes five songs, then repeats them over and over again until he and it becomes a musical eventually.

[17:44] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, and I mean, to a certain extent, that's almost fine. Because like pretty good ones do that too.

[17:47] Jess McEnally: Like Les Mis repeats a lot of songs.

[17:51] Andrew DeWolf: Les Mis repeats with a point, and I'm gonna make the argument the Phantom doesn't repeat with a point, but Evita does. When the repetition and the songs are reintroduced, it's there for a reason. When "I'd Be Surprisingly Good for You" comes up, that is basically Perón and Eva's theme.

[18:08] Jess McEnally: Yes.

[18:09] Andrew DeWolf: And when it's especially effective when Che and Evita are like sharing the same number, very much like how "Don't Cry for Me Argentina" and "Oh What a Circus" are the same number, but very different feels, very different messages, just showing that they're two they're on the same track going in two different directions.

[18:28] Jess McEnally: Yeah. Well, because like "Oh What a Circus" is basically Che's big political number or whatever it is against her, and then "Don't Cry for Me Argentina" is her big political number for herself, of course.

[18:42] Andrew DeWolf: So alright. Um, I'm gonna talk about "Don't Cry for Me Argentina," not really as a song, but as a political message and what it is as a tool in the musical.

[18:54] Jess McEnally: Sure.

[18:55] Andrew DeWolf: Right now. Go for it. So I've actually read Andrew Lloyd Webber's biography because you know, I love pain. And it's interesting.

[19:04] Jess McEnally: You really hate this guy, don't you?

[19:06] Andrew DeWolf: I don't I don't really even hate him that much. I think he's done some terrible things to people, which kind of sucks, but I don't hate him.

[19:16] Jess McEnally: You will once you uh get to know him.

[19:19] Andrew DeWolf: That's basically it. He wrote a one-hit wonder song, um, like kind of like a dancy disco version of "Itsy Bitsy Teeny Weeny Yellow Polka Dot Bikini," and it is the worst thing I've ever heard. That's just unrelated. I'm gonna play it here right now, just so you guys can deal with that before I talk about "Don't Cry for Me Argentina." Man, we just gotta fill this with all these negative things, even though this is actually a good show. We just can't compliment the guy.

[19:45] Jess McEnally: No, no, no, no. But "Don't Cry for Me, Argentina." He wrote it with the same idea he did had as um Judy Garland with "Over the Rainbow." So that was her swan song. Like that was that was an embodiment of her. When she sang it, she an audience slid up and everyone agreed with her. And then when she's in London in her final days, and she's just full of drugs, barely walking, and she just goes on stage again, and she sings this song that she's known for, that is her song, and instead of building her up with every word, it is destroying her and tearing her down. And he had Andrew Lloyd Webber saw this live and hadn't seen nothing like it. It was right before she died. And he said he had only ever seen it once after that, and that was with Amy Winehouse shortly before she died. And I'm like, that is a very, very intelligent way to look at this scene from a man I did not expect to have that much nuance with writing with storytelling writing.

[20:51] Andrew DeWolf: I don't believe Andrew Lloyd Webber cares about storytelling anymore, honestly.

[20:55] Jess McEnally: Well, uh he's gotten to a point where he probably has so much success and probably enough money to live on, so I mean, fair, yes. So it's like at a certain point, it's like, why even bother caring anymore, you know? Just like whatever. This was I believe this was his last musical before he did Cats.

[21:17] Andrew DeWolf: Um no, no, that is incorrect. He did Tell Me on a Sunday, a musical that nobody knows or care about, in between Cats and this.

[21:24] Jess McEnally: Still probably better than Cats, but I mean, throw a fucking rock, you'll hit a musical better than Cats.

[21:35] Andrew DeWolf: Am I wrong?

[21:36] Jess McEnally: You're probably not wrong.

[21:40] Andrew DeWolf: In comes all the people that love Cats.

[21:43] Jess McEnally: How could you talk about Rum Tum Tugger that way?

[21:46] Andrew DeWolf: Oh my god. Let me preface this. Cats is my favorite musical ever. So hearing you guys tear it apart really hurt me personally as a human being.

[22:00] Jess McEnally: Just picture there behind their computer screens dressed in all the Cats makeup.

[22:12] Andrew DeWolf: Oh great. Alright, do you want to go positive for a bit more? What else do we have to say?

[22:18] Jess McEnally: Um well. I mean, positive wise, the main positive things is the very coherent story that tells.

[22:20] Andrew DeWolf: Oh great. That's that's like the most minimum positivity you can give it, though.

[22:31] Jess McEnally: No, and in the score is very good. Like almost every song is actually at least very fun to listen to. None of them are hateable, I wouldn't say.

[22:45] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, well, lyrics and score are different.

[22:48] Jess McEnally: So that I know. This is like reverse Jesus Christ Superstar, where I think the score of Jesus Christ Superstar is just, it's good. It's good, but not great, where I think the lyrics are really shiny in Superstar. I think the lyrics here are really bad where Andrew Lloyd Webber just finally gets a shine.

[23:04] Andrew DeWolf: So you think uh what's his name? Tim Rice dropped the ball.

[23:07] Jess McEnally: I do. I do think it has some really god-awful lyrics in here.

[23:13] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[23:14] Jess McEnally: Is it you talking about the fact that some of them are just so crude? She Tim Rice writes some really cringy lyrics, especially in the original album, which I believe was in the Walt for Che and Ava, the line, "Well I go bananas chasing Nirvana's." What does that even mean?

[23:36] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know.

[23:40] Jess McEnally: And I'm sure that makes sense. That makes sense to somebody. And in the original concept album, Che was much more obviously Che Guevara, and he's like mostly complaining about his insecticides that won't get approved by the Peronian government. Because that was the big thing that Che Guevara was really big into.

[24:01] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[24:02] Jess McEnally: So I'm kind of glad they made it not so obviously Che Guevara, because he's a much more controversial figure than literally a fictional character. And that was a big Hal Prince request early on was like, I want it to be Che Guevara. Like, we are not gonna call him Che Guevara, but we're basically gonna make him look like it and all that.

[24:24] Andrew DeWolf: Man, I just I love Che Guevara though, because I can go down to Hot Topic and buy his t-shirts.

[24:29] Jess McEnally: And then you're basically buying Evita merchandise.

[24:32] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. And on top of that, he's a Marxist, so he would really disapprove of that.

[24:36] Jess McEnally: It's like having Andrew Jackson on a dollar bill.

[24:40] Andrew DeWolf: A $20 bill.

[24:41] Jess McEnally: Oh man, Andrew Jackson hated the concept of paper money, and I love that they stuck him on the 20th bill. Cause fuck that guy. That is honestly one of the only reasons why I'm still kind of like the fact that he's on the 20.

[24:54] Andrew DeWolf: No, people know we're going to be able to do it. People are like he's a terrible person. He's a terrible person. We gotta take him off the money. It's like, dude, he wouldn't want to be on the money. Don't take him off. It's like slapping him in the face every time you spend twenty dollars.

[25:11] Jess McEnally: Um, but you can see the aftershocks of Evita still in musical theater today. Like Hamilton would not exist without the political ramifications of Evita and the way that this is structured. This is such an important musical. Like, without with all of our complaints, this is history making and one of the most important musicals in like the 20th century.

[25:39] Andrew DeWolf: Let's go into a Mitchell announcement.

[25:41] Jess McEnally: Yippee Kaye. Motherfuckers.

[25:45] Andrew DeWolf: It makes no sense that that's his catchphrase now.

[25:48] Jess McEnally: It bothers me.

[25:52] Jess McEnally: Yeah, because it was said as a joke in the first one because he calls him John Wayne.

[25:56] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[25:56] Jess McEnally: And now he just kinda says that randomly in the other movies.

[25:59] Andrew DeWolf: Uh, it's because in the other movies it's just nostalgia bait. It's like, remember when he said this? Remember that? It's like when Han Solo always says I know in response to things. They've done that every time Han Solo has appeared in a Star Wars thing.

[26:12] Jess McEnally: Yeah, it's like that wasn't even like that was just in reference to that one thing that wasn't like his catchphrase. That's just what he said that one time.

[26:24] Andrew DeWolf: While we're talking about Star Wars, why don't we talk about our wonderful patrons? Today's show is brought to you by the extremely kind donations by our donors over at Patreon. Our current patrons are Stephanie L, Terry Newellman, Max Lunick, Blair, Lily Accles, Kensi Horner, John Donna, Terra the Duck, Mosa Goldman, Jess Lightning, Ewan Cassie, Haley McDonald, Cascare, Cal McLeod, Fire of September, Mia Mary, Monica Therome, Brent Black, Haley Murray Elson, Wonderland Sambo, Neil Broadway, Flex, Michael Johan, Lathaniel Stacey Coombe, Joseph Evans King.

[26:59] Andrew DeWolf: They give us a little bit of a Jesus Christ Superstar shit right there.

[27:13] Jess McEnally: Andrew, is there anything else you want to say before we wrap this all up and get back to the show?

[27:17] Andrew DeWolf: Let's get back to the show.

[27:19] Jess McEnally: Ha ha ha.

[27:20] Andrew DeWolf: Great idea, what a circus, so what a show.

[27:28] Jess McEnally: Argentina has gone to town over the death of an actress called Ava Perón.

[27:37] Andrew DeWolf: We've all gone crazy.

[27:40] Jess McEnally: Morning all day and morning all night.

[27:43] Andrew DeWolf: Falling over ourselves together of the misery.

[28:06] Jess McEnally: And good for the country in a roundabout way.

[28:10] Andrew DeWolf: We've made the front page of all the world's papers today.

[28:17] Jess McEnally: But who is this Santa Evita?

[28:20] Andrew DeWolf: Why all this howling hysterical sorrow?

[28:23] Jess McEnally: What kind of goddess has lived among us?

[28:27] Andrew DeWolf: How will we ever get by without her?

[28:33] Jess McEnally: She alright.

[28:34] Andrew DeWolf: What do you think of the Requiem for Evita slash Oh What a Circus?

[28:38] Jess McEnally: I think this is one of the greatest opening scenes in musical theater. So I want your thoughts.

[28:43] Andrew DeWolf: I think Requiem for Evita has a really great tone to it.

[28:47] Jess McEnally: Mm-hmm.

[28:48] Andrew DeWolf: Just like a very big, like epic but kind of ominous tone, if you know what I'm saying.

[28:55] Jess McEnally: I think it's just genius to start with a funeral for a musical. Like that is a l coming from like forget your troubles, come on, get happy from like the olden days, like to that, it is groundbreaking, and you kind of feel it even in like modern productions, like, ooh, ooh.

[29:12] Andrew DeWolf: I just hate they spoil the fact that she dies.

[29:15] Jess McEnally: No, I think that's brilliant, though.

[29:18] Andrew DeWolf: I know you're joking, but I think that's fucking brilliant.

[29:21] Jess McEnally: Oh, what a circus is I mean, it's a good introduction to one of the what will be one of the main themes of the show as well. And I guess it's a good introduction to the Shay character.

[29:34] Andrew DeWolf: Well, I don't love his purpose in the show necessarily. You do have to introduce him, and it's a good introduction.

[29:41] Jess McEnally: And I feel like that's where he's like at his tamest. He's like, This is my thesis, and this is where I stand among the other people. Like, I don't like her, but I have reasons.

[29:51] Andrew DeWolf: It's not just because fuck that bitch, it's because, like, she didn't—what did she do?

[29:58] Jess McEnally: Um, she was a saint. Come on, excuse me.

[30:03] Andrew DeWolf: She's just an actress that, like, made the right friends. And uh, who is anyone else, really? Like, she didn't say much, but she said it loud is probably like one of the more accurate descriptions of Ava Perón. Like, what did she really have to say?

[30:22] Jess McEnally: I mean, that could be a mantra. That could be a mantra for every politician to ever live.

[30:29] Andrew DeWolf: That could be the mantra for every politician to ever live, though. They didn't say much, but they said it loud.

[30:40] Jess McEnally: Like, there are some quotes in there that is like really backhanded, like, you let down your people, Evita, you're supposed to be a too to have been immortal. That's all they wanted, not much asked for, but in the end you could not deliver.

[30:52] Andrew DeWolf: Like, especially put up against that melody being the don't cry from Argentina, like, you let down your people, Evita. You're supposed to have been immortal. The truth is I never left you. Like, the line about being immortal is coinciding with the line of never leaving you. It is so good, and I wish Tim Rice had brought this good of lyric writing to any other song in the show.

[31:19] Jess McEnally: Well, I think he did.

[31:22] Andrew DeWolf: Try to. I mean, yeah, I'm sure he tried to. This was like his baby, but I didn't succeed in my opinion.

[31:30] Jess McEnally: On this all thousand stars.

[31:38] Andrew DeWolf: Let me take you to heaven's door.

[31:42] Jess McEnally: Well, the music cup loves guitars.

[31:47] Andrew DeWolf: Place forever more.

[31:50] Jess McEnally: In the case, I know you have things to say about this night of a thousand stars.

[31:57] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I just like this song. It's it has literally nothing, like no relevance to the story, I don't think. Unless I'm missing like an interpretation that I should be making.

[32:06] Jess McEnally: Um I just think it's a fun song.

[32:10] Andrew DeWolf: I was very curious because you're like, my favorite song is on this night of a thousand stars. I'm like, are you an idiot?

[32:15] Jess McEnally: It's not my favorite song, I just like it. It's good.

[32:18] Andrew DeWolf: Is it just because it like is catchy or it sounds nice? Like, what is it?

[32:22] Jess McEnally: Just sounds nice.

[32:23] Andrew DeWolf: Alright. I always thought it was kind of a goofy pastiche song.

[32:28] Jess McEnally: It is.

[32:28] Andrew DeWolf: But it's fun. I mean, goofy pastiche songs, isn't that Andrew Lloyd Webber's thing?

[32:35] Jess McEnally: I mean, if you're only going by Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat, or Phantom of the Opera.

[32:42] Andrew DeWolf: Phantom of the Opera has two songs, and then everything else is like, here's a Mozart song, and here's a song that sounds like this other composer, and I can't wait to do School of Rock with you.

[32:54] Jess McEnally: Oh boy, does he like he's like, here's a Pink Floyd song, and uh here's a song that sounds kind of like uh Guns N' Roses and basically the funny. But I'm not gonna lie, like a lot of Andrew Lloyd Webber's music rarely gets stuck in my head, except for maybe like da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da.

[33:13] Andrew DeWolf: Like from Jesus Christ Superstar.

[33:16] Jess McEnally: Good night, and thank you, whoever.

[33:19] Andrew DeWolf: She's in every magazine.

[33:21] Jess McEnally: Been photographed scene, she's known.

[33:24] Andrew DeWolf: We don't like to rush, but your case has been packed.

[33:27] Jess McEnally: If we've missed anything, you could give us a ring, but we don't always answer the phone.

[33:34] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, but it's sad when a lover fed dies, but when we were hot, we were hot.

[33:41] Jess McEnally: I know you look back on the good times we've said.

[33:44] Andrew DeWolf: But he talk will not.

[33:47] Jess McEnally: There is no one, no one talk.

[33:50] Andrew DeWolf: Never has it, never will be a lover.

[33:56] Jess McEnally: Who hasn't denied that they rely on drinks and hard night?

[34:09] Andrew DeWolf: You're the same.

[34:11] Jess McEnally: Okay, what's the next song?

[34:13] Andrew DeWolf: I want to talk about Good Night and Thank You.

[34:15] Jess McEnally: Yeah, this is a pretty fun one. I'm curious of your opinion of the context of it.

[34:22] Andrew DeWolf: Uh, in by that it's just her sleeping her way up the ladder.

[34:27] Jess McEnally: Yes, because it's framed differently in the musical than it is in the movie, and I don't mean to jump the gun to the movies changes, which spoiler alert, I don't exactly disagree with. But how did you frame it for you that first time around? Like, was it like, oh, this bitch, or like, oh, that's a smart idea?

[34:46] Andrew DeWolf: Um, I mean, it's not unheard of for, you know, people to think women are sleeping their way up something. You know, sleeping with the boss to get a promotion or whatever, which honestly is not a not really a good idea. I mean, I'd do it if I was a woman.

[35:04] Jess McEnally: I don't think it would work, is the thing.

[35:06] Andrew DeWolf: Why?

[35:06] Jess McEnally: Cause I'm ugly?

[35:07] Andrew DeWolf: You don't think I'm pretty enough to sleep my way to the top?

[35:10] Jess McEnally: Well, for you, yes, but I mean, in general, I feel like that wouldn't work, but you'd get this reputation as someone who does that and then people would look down on you.

[35:21] Andrew DeWolf: I mean it depends do you have the job at the end of the day.

[35:24] Jess McEnally: I don't know. And the other thing the only thing I have about this song is and I couldn't really find any confirmation is this actually true? Did she do this?

[35:31] Andrew DeWolf: It's a rumor at best.

[35:36] Jess McEnally: Because if that is if it's not really a confirmed thing is this is this straight up slander? I mean you can't slander someone who's dead.

[35:44] Andrew DeWolf: That's true.

[35:45] Jess McEnally: That's why that Leaving Neverland or finding what what is the Michael Jackson documentary?

[35:50] Andrew DeWolf: I think it's like Finding Neverland or something like that.

[35:52] Jess McEnally: No, Finding Neverland is the musical and the Johnny Depp film.

[35:56] Andrew DeWolf: I think it's Leaving Neverland.

[35:58] Jess McEnally: Okay. Um they can't sue for that because he's dead.

[36:02] Andrew DeWolf: So even though it's all unconfirmed, all unconfirmed rumors I'm willing to believe that that should happen but the family is pissed they can't sue because Michael's dead.

[36:11] Jess McEnally: You can't sue the estate well the estate isn't the person.

[36:15] Andrew DeWolf: They're not accusing a person they're not accusing an estate they're accusing a person.

[36:21] Jess McEnally: And the person's dead so it doesn't matter.

[36:23] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[36:25] Jess McEnally: It's weird.

[36:26] Andrew DeWolf: It's a weird situation.

[36:27] Jess McEnally: Yeah, I think my only real complaint with this song is just that it's it's kind of it's very rumor and it's it's probably the most slanderous part of the whole thing. It's like, oh well they not only did she do nothing she just slept her way to the top which is like you saying that about a woman is kind of like a really kind of sexist thing to say as well.

[36:46] Andrew DeWolf: Um.

[36:47] Jess McEnally: So especially the fact that it's unconfirmed, that doesn't really sit right with me. But the song is fun, and I like the concept. I just wish it was more you know, there was more confirmation that it was real.

[36:59] Andrew DeWolf: I agree with that, and I kinda like that she's taking agency in her sleeping to the top, which is the only reason why I disagree about it being sexist, so to say.

[37:11] Jess McEnally: Well, I think it's a sexist stereotype. Like any woman who has power, well, they must have just slept their way up there. That's the only way they could have done that.

[37:19] Andrew DeWolf: But she's not conniving, she's not mean to any of them. She's like, oh, but it's sad, but I love if they're done. Like, it's pandering, but she's not a little bit more than a few.

[37:27] Jess McEnally: I feel like that's that's all sarcastic, though. It's all uh it's fake. You know, I think that's the intention. That's why Shay even sings it with uh with her.

[37:38] Andrew DeWolf: I find it funny. I think it's a joke song that is also developing plot.

[37:43] Jess McEnally: I agree. I just think that the fact that it's about a historical figure makes it a little bit more a little bit tougher to sit with.

[37:53] Andrew DeWolf: Which is fair.

[37:54] Jess McEnally: And If it was a if this was a totally fictional character, I no problems.

[38:01] Andrew DeWolf: I get that too, and I think most of the thing with Ava, and the reason why this is the framing, is she probably did have sex with people before marrying Juan Perón.

[38:14] Jess McEnally: Well, I have I have no doubt that she did. And if any woman has sex in this time period, oh, she's a slut, slept away to the top, what a bitch!

[38:24] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, but the thing is this song confirms it. What they're trying to say is this song is like, that was actually the truth. She did do that. It wasn't just something people said.

[38:36] Jess McEnally: One L's picked the easy fight.

[38:41] Andrew DeWolf: One praise's spools.

[38:44] Jess McEnally: One smaller sight.

[38:48] Andrew DeWolf: One slap to write.

[38:52] Jess McEnally: It's part of the art of the possible.

[38:59] Andrew DeWolf: Um, can we talk very, very, very, very briefly about a song that I hate so much?

[39:05] Jess McEnally: Sure.

[39:06] Andrew DeWolf: Which one?

[39:07] Jess McEnally: Um, The Art of the Possible.

[39:10] Andrew DeWolf: Okay.

[39:10] Jess McEnally: Yeah, go ahead.

[39:11] Andrew DeWolf: I fucking hate this song. I think the staging is ridiculous. Hal Prince requested the song be in here, and it just is the most droning, boring, and horribly staged thing in any version of it.

[39:22] Jess McEnally: I'm honestly trying to remember what this song is.

[39:25] Andrew DeWolf: It's like, one always picks the easy fight.

[39:33] Jess McEnally: Is this the one where like you get that like Nazi imagery where the back the backlighting and the soldiers march out?

[39:40] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, but in the original production, it was just a basically musical chairs until the last chair comes up and it's Juan Perón.

[39:48] Jess McEnally: Yeah. It's a horrible, horrible song. The staging is always terrible. Cut the fucking thing.

[39:59] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, but Hal Prince insisted on it. And this is another one of those times. Hal Prince is a genius, and I love him. He makes some really bad calls a lot of the time.

[40:07] Jess McEnally: Well, nobody's a genius about everything. Sometimes people just make the wrong decision.

[40:12] Andrew DeWolf: I disagree. Jason Robert Brown is the savior of writing and is a genius.

[40:17] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, well, that one case excluded. Everybody else makes mistakes.

[40:22] Jess McEnally: It's been a while since we did a Jason Robert Brown. We should do another one.

[40:28] Andrew DeWolf: That savior writing joke will never die.

[40:32] Jess McEnally: I mean, he said it himself. He wrote it into his own show, so.

[40:35] Andrew DeWolf: Yep, yep, yep.

[40:37] ♪ Musical number ♪

[41:21] Andrew DeWolf: That was a nice little moment.

[41:23] Jess McEnally: What do you think of that one?

[41:25] Andrew DeWolf: I think it's decent. It's a good, like, her trying to convince him to go out, kind of thing, or be together. Convince him that it's a good decision.

[41:34] Jess McEnally: Well, basically it's saying, you scratch my back, I scratch your back.

[41:39] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[41:40] Jess McEnally: Basically, I'ma fuck you, and you're gonna give me power.

[41:43] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. So basically a continuation of Goodnight and Thank You.

[41:47] Jess McEnally: Yeah, but this one's a little bit more powerful and because.

[41:55] Andrew DeWolf: Leads, basically.

[41:56] Jess McEnally: Leads, yeah. Um. It's a decent song. I don't. It's not like the main one I remember, though.

[42:04] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, I think the big song is Don't Cry for Me, Argentina, and you know.

[42:08] Jess McEnally: I like this better than Don't Cry for Me Argentina.

[42:10] Andrew DeWolf: Really?

[42:11] Jess McEnally: I don't.

[42:11] Andrew DeWolf: But why?

[42:13] Jess McEnally: I just feel like that one has more impact.

[42:18] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, I disagree. I think this one is the romance theme before between Ava and Juan. And is so effective, especially when it comes back later in Act 2.

[42:31] Jess McEnally: I like it. I just it didn't sit didn't stick with me as much.

[42:35] Andrew DeWolf: Hmm.

[42:37] Jess McEnally: I get that. But I love it to death. Except when Michelle Pfeiffer sings it. Um look that up, kids. It sounds like a cat died.

[42:45] Andrew DeWolf: So you do love it when Madonna sings it then.

[42:47] Jess McEnally: I don't think she does a bad job. I think that's one of the rare songs in here that she really sells.

[42:53] Andrew DeWolf: Okay.

[42:54] Jess McEnally: Like, she's very good at the seduction part of Ava, at least in the adaptation process.

[43:01] Andrew DeWolf: Well, that's all she's really known for.

[43:04] Jess McEnally: Well, speaking of songs that she's really known for.

[43:12] Andrew DeWolf: I know.

[43:14] Jess McEnally: Well maybe not that fine.

[43:17] Andrew DeWolf: But I'll survive anyhow.

[43:21] Jess McEnally: I won't recall the names and places of this sad occasion.

[43:28] Andrew DeWolf: But that's no consolation.

[43:32] Jess McEnally: Here and now.

[43:34] Andrew DeWolf: So it happens now.

[43:38] Jess McEnally: Someone happens in now.

[43:40] Andrew DeWolf: Take your picture up now.

[43:49] Jess McEnally: Don't ask anymore.

[43:55] Jess McEnally: Um, I want your opinion on another suitcase in another hall, both as a song and as a point in the story in the musical.

[44:03] Andrew DeWolf: Um, okay, okay. I yeah, I know this one. So this is a good one. This is one of the weirdest sorrows in the show. They cut this from the movie, didn't they?

[44:14] Jess McEnally: No. No, no, no. I'm gonna.

[44:17] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, another suitcase in another hall. Tell me the context of how that happens in the musical, and I'll remind you how it happens in the movie.

[44:23] Jess McEnally: The musical, uh, after she gets together, Perone's other person she he was going out with before his mistress, his former mistress.

[44:32] Andrew DeWolf: Who looks very, very young in the version I watched, which was kind of off putting.

[44:36] Jess McEnally: Uh she is very, very young in real life, apparently.

[44:38] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, so I guess that's true then. Um, but yeah, so um basically Ava's just kicks her out. Her exact words are hello and goodbye. I just unemployed you. You can go back to school.

[44:52] Jess McEnally: Which is hilarious.

[44:53] Andrew DeWolf: It's a great line.

[44:55] Jess McEnally: Yeah, and it's like, oof, yikes. It just shows the confidence that Ava has grown over the years.

[45:03] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. And uh, yeah. Then she she sings a song about leaving. I think, okay, I'm trying to remember. In the movie, uh, they change it to be after good night and thank you or before good night and thank you.

[45:10] Jess McEnally: Before good night and thank you. So Magaldi takes her to Buenos Aires, then he goes back to his family. Then Madonna basically demanded she has all the big numbers. So she took this from the mistress and sang it all by herself.

[45:30] Andrew DeWolf: There is no mistress in the movie.

[45:33] Jess McEnally: No, there is. It's there.

[45:34] Andrew DeWolf: Really? I don't even remember it. They should do it so fast, I guess.

[45:37] Jess McEnally: Yeah, it's very, very fast. She just sings a quick reprise.

[45:43] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[45:43] Jess McEnally: Um.

[45:43] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, that's interesting that they so Madonna basically forced them to give it to her.

[45:47] Jess McEnally: Yes.

[45:47] Andrew DeWolf: And they're like, where do we put it that it makes sense? And I guess we put it here.

[45:52] Jess McEnally: And I don't want to talk about the movie too early, but I like that change. I think that's an effective change that shows an actual story progression for why she decides to sleep around. That makes her more sympathetic for sleeping around because she realizes that can get you places.

[46:07] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, and it's also kind of like this mistress character, you could pretty much just cut her entirely. And doesn't really lose much, you know.

[46:16] Jess McEnally: Which is why it's so baffling that it's like that in the musical, because otherwise, this is a pretty tight musical that we focus on like four characters.

[46:23] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, and then they just kind of like, oh, here's another one, and then she actually gets like a big number.

[46:27] Jess McEnally: Yeah, it's really fucking weird. I'm thinking maybe it's a technical reason, like someone needs to go do a change or something.

[46:37] Andrew DeWolf: Maybe.

[46:37] Jess McEnally: I I don't really who would though. I mean, I guess Ava maybe would have to change.

[46:42] Andrew DeWolf: Well, this is right before um Perone's latest flame in a new Argentina, two really big numbers where it a lot of shit happens. So that might be possible. They just need to kill some time, let them get changed, let the sets get made and put on. But I don't know. It's a really weird choice, and I still don't quite understand it.

[47:08] ♪ Musical number: "Don't Cry for Me Argentina" ♪

[48:09] Jess McEnally: Well, we have to talk about Don't Cry for Me, Argentina.

[48:09] Andrew DeWolf: Don't cry for me, kids of Springfield. I mean, this is just the famous number from this, and they do like parodies of it, and I mean.

[48:25] Jess McEnally: Yeah, I don't like this song. I find it very boring, in fact.

[48:29] Andrew DeWolf: I think it's fine. I think it's interesting. I don't think Please, please explain to me why you like the song.

[48:30] Jess McEnally: I think it's interesting as a like, you know, this is what she this is kind of what she would say in her speeches to get people to really rally behind her. And I think that that's an interesting concept.

[48:48] Andrew DeWolf: Is it weird that this is not the song that ends act one? But the song that starts act two.

[48:55] Jess McEnally: Well, it's weird as a placement, I guess. Because usually the Act Two starter, as you always say, is like the who cares about this song.

[49:04] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, it kinda is, though. What plot do we learn from this?

[49:08] Jess McEnally: I mean, we learned that she is now a figurehead, and not just her.

[49:12] Andrew DeWolf: We kinda learned that at the end of a new Argentina and the end of Act One.

[49:16] Jess McEnally: Yeah. Well, I guess you could just replace a new Argentina with this song, but it maybe the lyrically it doesn't make as much sense. I don't know. It would it would be a fine Act One closer, honestly. And it's the big it's a big number that people like, so I'm I mean, even before the musical come out, this was the hit song. Let's just frame it like that.

[49:39] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[49:40] Jess McEnally: Like before this was a musical, this was an album, and this was a huge hit song.

[49:44] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, so why not put it as the closer and have it be like the I guess maybe to force people to come back to hear it. So like nobody would leave during act the uh during the mid-show.

[49:55] Jess McEnally: Maybe it's like, hey, we didn't hear that one song.

[50:00] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, we have to go back because we didn't hear the song we wanted to hear.

[50:06] Jess McEnally: But you've already gotten their money at that point. Who cares if they stay. I'm it's it's a strange propaganda song, and it's I I like that, honestly, because in my opinion, the more interesting part of this is just how like fascist rise to power, and I would have just preferred a story kind of just about that. Um, and like why this person was worshipped that way and what what they said to get people to side with them is interesting.

[50:39] Andrew DeWolf: Okay. So this song had some original initial lyrics that are really weird and it feels very Tim Rice. Um my biggest the reason why I think this th this specific piece works. It's not because the music as much as the lyrics. I think the lyrics are really good. Um a little meandering, but really good. The original title of i this song was It's Only Your Lover Lover Returning.

[51:03] Jess McEnally: What?

[51:05] Andrew DeWolf: And all through my crazy and wild days, those were the two original titles for this song.

[51:10] Jess McEnally: That doesn't even it doesn't make sense.

[51:13] Andrew DeWolf: And Tim Rice recalled, what a cross decision. It was probably one of the only times, honest that I had made a mistake of caring more about a lyric's potential outside the show than its port than its importance within it. And as a result, both song and show suffered until they eventually figured out Don't Cry for Me Argentina was perfect.

[51:33] Jess McEnally: Hmm. Interesting. Um while we're talking about this song, Roger Ebert always had an issue with the song. He says, For years I have wondered during Don't Cry for Me Argentina, why we were not to cry. Now I understand. We need to cry because A, Ava got everything she dreamed of, and B, Argentina should cry for itself. Even poor Juan Peron should shed a tear or two. He is relegated to the status of a walker, presentable man who adorns his the arm of which uh of a rich and powerful woman as his human fashionist accessory. Do you agree with that?

[52:11] Andrew DeWolf: Honestly, I'm not sure. The one thing I don't love about this song, because I don't really get the lyrics, to be honest. Um it's by his own admission, Tim Bryce says that the song's lyrics are a string of meaningless platitudes. Who felt that and he felt that it was a work of an emotionally intense but empty speech by a megalomaniacal woman trying to win the favor of Argentines.

[52:35] Jess McEnally: Yeah, and I guess I can get that. She's just She's just not saying very much. She's just saying something that they want to hear. You know, like make America Great Again or build a wall. Just platitudes.

[52:47] Andrew DeWolf: Exactly. Or I'm with her, or literally any political phrase, because politicians are fucking same. They're all the same. I hate.

[53:03] Jess McEnally: I'm wearing it.

[53:04] Andrew DeWolf: Are you not supporting Ava Perone? She's for the discomisados. She's a feminist.

[53:13] Jess McEnally: Sure, Jan. Alright, let's move on to high flying.

[53:17] Andrew DeWolf: Her Wikipedia page uh specifically goes into her feminist uh movement.

[53:24] Jess McEnally: Alright.

[53:25] Andrew DeWolf: She was for women's suffrage, okay?

[53:26] Jess McEnally: I mean, come on, that's a real thing.

[53:28] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, that is a real thing.

[53:31] Jess McEnally: High flying ador. So young instant queen, a rich beautiful thing of all the talents.

[53:44] Jess McEnally: Cross between fantasy of the bedroom and say you were just a backstreet girl. Hustling and fighting, scratching and biting.

[54:01] Andrew DeWolf: I flying adored. Did you believe? In your wildest moments. Oh, this would be yours that you'd become the lady of the mall with a pause in your eyes when you crawled in that night.

[54:24] Jess McEnally: Let's move on to High Flying Adored.

[54:27] Andrew DeWolf: High flying adored. Should we just talk about Rainbow High?

[54:30] Jess McEnally: But I want to talk about this very briefly.

[54:32] Andrew DeWolf: Fine.

[54:33] Jess McEnally: Go ahead.

[54:34] Andrew DeWolf: I like this song because it describes a lot of young celebrities nowadays, and I don't think it's such it's become an idiom in and of itself. Like Suntime is brilliant for coming up with idioms, but Tim Rice has made one, and I still use it to this day.

[54:49] Jess McEnally: And what is it?

[54:51] Andrew DeWolf: Basically, it's becoming too big, too fast, too young. You can say that about Justin Bieber, any young child star, Millie Bobby Brown, um, Finn Wolfhard. The 27 Flying Adored. Like, you don't care if they love you, it's been done before. You'll despair if they loathe you. You'll be drained of all energy. All the young of who've made it will agree. It's such a good song.

[55:14] Jess McEnally: And it doesn't belong quite. I don't think that Shay would actually believe this.

[55:19] Andrew DeWolf: I feel like this character would not think this.

[55:23] Jess McEnally: Well, Shay isn't a character, though.

[55:25] Andrew DeWolf: I feel like in the show, Shay is not a character. He is a mouthpiece.

[55:30] Jess McEnally: Mouthpiece for the for the people who are making the show.

[55:33] Andrew DeWolf: Yes. And I get that. But do you what do you think of the song?

[55:38] Jess McEnally: Uh, it's it's fine. I think the two songs that follow it leave more of an impact, Rainbow High and Rainbow Tour.

[55:48] Andrew DeWolf: Which I get, but this is this feels like it should be the opener to act two, in my honest opinion.

[55:54] Jess McEnally: Well, I mean, it is.

[55:57] Andrew DeWolf: We got four songs above it, though. Like, you have Don't Cry for Me Argentina on the Casa Rosada. Like that speech that she gives, like, where she's like, not for all of you, but for all of us. That feels like the really scary ending of Act One, where you want to come back and see what happens. Then you start act two, and it's like, Hi, flying adored.

[56:18] Jess McEnally: So young, the instant queen. Like that feels like a much more structurally sound version.

[56:24] Andrew DeWolf: It's so weird they start with Don't Cry for Me Argentina.

[56:27] Jess McEnally: You know, Jess, if you want to direct a version of this, I'm sure you can, okay?

[56:30] Andrew DeWolf: Come on.

[56:31] Jess McEnally: No, they won't let me.

[56:32] Andrew DeWolf: Why not?

[56:33] Jess McEnally: Because I'd make it too political.

[56:36] Andrew DeWolf: Give her a MAGA hat.

[56:39] Jess McEnally: I don't think that would fit, to be honest.

[56:41] Andrew DeWolf: Figure press voice style movement and magic rings glamour.

[56:50] Jess McEnally: All my descamisados expect me to outshine the enemy.

[56:54] Andrew DeWolf: The Aristocracy, I want to be supporting them.

[57:00] Jess McEnally: I am their savior. That's what they call me. So let them buck all of me.

[57:09] Andrew DeWolf: Anything goes to make me fantastic.

[57:13] Jess McEnally: I have to be rainbow in Magic Alcorse.

[57:21] Andrew DeWolf: Alright, let's go on to Rainbow High, which is my favorite song in this show.

[57:21] Jess McEnally: Rainbow High.

[57:28] Andrew DeWolf: I know you like it because they sing really high.

[57:31] Jess McEnally: It just sounds incredible. Like I love listening to the song. It is such a fun thing to hear.

[57:36] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, it's it's pretty decent. And and I think musically, I mean, I know you you have said it's very difficult to sing, and I I guess I will believe you because I definitely can't sing it, so and I know it's weird to just like it's high, so it's really hard and it's impressive, but no, it also sounds good.

[57:55] Jess McEnally: Yeah.

[57:57] Andrew DeWolf: It's not like them just singing really high notes like something from like Phantom of the Opera or something like that.

[58:03] Jess McEnally: Or even Le Miz, like I hate bringing him home because it's a bunch of really high whole notes and it's boring.

[58:09] Andrew DeWolf: What you don't want to bring him home?

[58:11] Jess McEnally: Come on.

[58:12] Andrew DeWolf: No.

[58:12] Jess McEnally: Whereas this it's like really high energy, you're like eyes, hair, face, image, dress face, voice, smile. Like it's like, oh wow, everything, and she's like screamy at the top of her lungs. And probably it's not that important a song, but I love it anyways.

[58:29] Andrew DeWolf: Well, you gotta fill out act two somehow.

[58:32] Jess McEnally: But it represents her materialistic style. Like she requests to be Christian Diored as a verb.

[58:40] Andrew DeWolf: And her blessed fun can make your dreams come true.

[58:44] Jess McEnally: Here's all you have to do, my friends. Write your name and your dream on a card or a pat or a ticket. Throw it high in the air, and should our lady pick it.

[58:56] Andrew DeWolf: She will change your way of life for a week or even two.

[59:01] Jess McEnally: Name me anyone who cares as much as Ava Perón.

[59:14] Andrew DeWolf: Rolling out, rolling on out, rolling a half.

[59:20] Jess McEnally: And the minor kept rolling out in all directions.

[59:24] Andrew DeWolf: To the poor, to the weak, to the destitute of all complexions.

[59:28] Jess McEnally: Now sin exclaim a little of the cash has gone astray.

[59:33] Andrew DeWolf: But that's not the point, my friends. When the money keeps rolling out, you don't keep books.

[59:40] Jess McEnally: You can tell you've done well by the happy grateful looks.

[59:44] Andrew DeWolf: Accountants only slow things down.

[59:47] Jess McEnally: Figures get in the way.

[59:50] Andrew DeWolf: Now Penalady loved as much as Ava Perón.

[59:58] Jess McEnally: The part uh the money kept rolling in and out.

[1:00:02] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, I like the song. It's a lot of fun.

[1:00:05] Jess McEnally: This is the one about her charity work, right?

[1:00:07] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, I think you're gonna have issues with it.

[1:00:09] Jess McEnally: Well, just the they just imply that her charity work was a bad thing.

[1:00:13] Andrew DeWolf: And it just there's really no backing for that.

[1:00:17] Jess McEnally: Other than just they assert that it happened.

[1:00:20] Andrew DeWolf: She had a Swiss bank account where money from the charity would come out of, and then when they try to do research on it, the bank shut down.

[1:00:27] Jess McEnally: I get it.

[1:00:28] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, I see the connection there.

[1:00:30] Jess McEnally: Yes, but I mean, just because she deletes her emails doesn't mean there's something bad going on.

[1:00:34] Andrew DeWolf: There was a fucking investigation into that, and they found Jack's shit.

[1:00:39] Jess McEnally: Exactly, because the bank shut down. I mean, how are they gonna find anything?

[1:00:47] Andrew DeWolf: I think the song is fun. And yeah, she did a lot of good for a lot of people, but also she stole money.

[1:00:53] Jess McEnally: Yeah.

[1:00:54] Andrew DeWolf: I guess, uh I guess it's fine.

[1:00:58] Jess McEnally: I don't know. My favorite part of this entire song is both like, especially in the movie, but in every production where Che just goes, Yeah.

[1:01:11] Andrew DeWolf: Well, it's Antonio Banderas saying it is just kind of the best.

[1:01:16] Jess McEnally: Yeah. Um, did you like I thought you would like this show because they're talking directly to you the whole time.

[1:01:22] Andrew DeWolf: I do like that part of it, actually. I love that Shay is just straight up like he's always playing a different character and he's always looking at you. It's like the best.

[1:01:32] Jess McEnally: This is one of um we'll talk about the movie.

[1:01:35] Andrew DeWolf: Uh I was about to go get into fun facts about the movie.

[1:01:38] Jess McEnally: Let's talk about a waltz for Shay and Ava.

[1:01:40] Andrew DeWolf: Tell me before you get on to your bus before joining the forgotten brigade.

[1:01:48] Jess McEnally: How can one person like me say alter the time or not the way the game is played?

[1:01:55] Andrew DeWolf: Tell me before you get on to your high horse, just what you expect me to do.

[1:02:02] Jess McEnally: I don't care what the bourgeoisie say.

[1:02:07] Andrew DeWolf: I'm not in business for them, but to give all my desk on my salvals a magical moment or two.

[1:02:15] Jess McEnally: There is evil.

[1:02:25] Andrew DeWolf: So what are my chances of honest advances?

[1:02:28] Jess McEnally: I'd say low better to win by admitting my scent than to lose with a hate.

[1:02:37] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, this is this is when she's like gonna die soon, I'm pretty sure.

[1:02:41] Jess McEnally: Well, it's kind of they're both in their own fantasy world and they finally meet.

[1:02:45] Andrew DeWolf: It is the catharsis that we've all been stroked off for, and this is the orgasm where it's like, oh they're me!

[1:02:51] Jess McEnally: They're meeting each other.

[1:02:53] Andrew DeWolf: They met each other.

[1:02:55] Jess McEnally: And they both just Eva is like.

[1:03:03] Andrew DeWolf: Well, that's not even that. It's like, hey, I'm gonna try my best here, but it's not like I can flip a button and fix all the problems.

[1:03:12] Jess McEnally: Yeah.

[1:03:12] Andrew DeWolf: Which is a good point.

[1:03:14] Jess McEnally: I mean, yeah, what is she gonna do exactly? Like, I'm only one person, I don't have any political power. I'm trying to like give these people a good day or two. That's all I can really do.

[1:03:28] Andrew DeWolf: Which is really an effective response.

[1:03:31] Jess McEnally: Yeah.

[1:03:32] Andrew DeWolf: And Shay's just like, well, it's not good enough.

[1:03:35] Jess McEnally: Which is also fair.

[1:03:38] Andrew DeWolf: Like her line is if I said I'd take on the world's greatest problems, roar to the pollution, no hope of solution, even if I live for a hundred years. What do you want me to do?

[1:03:50] Jess McEnally: Yeah.

[1:03:51] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, I think that is uh that is something that a lot of times when these like revolutionary types with which Shay I think is supposed to represent, you know, like they'll they'll look at a political figure and be like, They haven't fixed everything. What the heck? And it's like, well, you know, realistically, if you get into power, you're not gonna fix everything either, so.

[1:04:10] Jess McEnally: Right.

[1:04:10] Andrew DeWolf: And it's like that's why Shay kinda shuts the fuck up until she's dead.

[1:04:14] Jess McEnally: Yeah.

[1:04:16] Andrew DeWolf: He's like, you know what, you made a good point.

[1:04:19] Jess McEnally: They give Ava the final word, so to say.

[1:04:21] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[1:04:22] Jess McEnally: Which is why it's a little blurred of like, what side are they really on?

[1:04:27] Andrew DeWolf: Well, I think the rest of the show speaks for itself as far as which side they're on, but yeah.

[1:04:33] Jess McEnally: And I think it's a fine side to be on. It's uh honestly they're on the right side because the Perones were bad, but still.

[1:04:35] Andrew DeWolf: The Perones were bad people, but I'm not sure Ava specifically is a symptom of that.

[1:04:47] Jess McEnally: Yeah, I'm not really sure they're targeting the right person, I think, is part of the problem.

[1:04:51] Andrew DeWolf: Cause Ava was more of a figurehead, whereas the other the whole rest of the government was the one that was really doing all the bad shit.

[1:04:59] Jess McEnally: Yeah, but she's the one that's being worshipped.

[1:05:01] Andrew DeWolf: No one gives a fuck about Juan Perón.

[1:05:03] Jess McEnally: They love Evita, though.

[1:05:05] Andrew DeWolf: That's true.

[1:05:06] Jess McEnally: That's the big issue that they have.

[1:05:08] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[1:05:09] Jess McEnally: Mm-hmm.

[1:05:11] Andrew DeWolf: The last thing I want to talk about before we wrap this on up and talk about the movie for a bit, is lament.

[1:05:19] Jess McEnally: The choice was yours and no one else's.

[1:05:26] Andrew DeWolf: You can cry for a body in despair.

[1:05:34] Jess McEnally: Hang your head. Because she's no longer to shine.

[1:05:50] Andrew DeWolf: How she lived.

[1:05:54] Jess McEnally: How she shone.

[1:05:57] Andrew DeWolf: But how soon the lights were gone.

[1:06:03] Jess McEnally: Or basically she's on a deathbed dying, and she's just calling out to the children of Argentina that she has taken as her own kids because she didn't have children of her own.

[1:06:13] Andrew DeWolf: It is a stark, dark ending for this piece.

[1:06:18] Jess McEnally: Yeah, I mean the whole show just ends with her dead, so I mean.

[1:06:22] Andrew DeWolf: But the thing is, are we supposed to be happy that she's dead?

[1:06:25] Jess McEnally: I don't understand what I'm supposed to feel.

[1:06:27] Andrew DeWolf: At least in the movie, I kind of understand what I'm supposed to feel at the end of that.

[1:06:32] Jess McEnally: Um.

[1:06:33] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, I think it's up to you.

[1:06:35] Jess McEnally: This is like the one part of the show that they actually let it be up to you, whether or not you're upset or not that she's dead.

[1:06:41] Andrew DeWolf: How did you feel at the end of the show?

[1:06:44] Jess McEnally: Um kind of neutral, I guess. I mean, I think she wasn't really the main problem, so her dying doesn't fix anything.

[1:06:53] Andrew DeWolf: But you know, she also wasn't really that bad of a person, so it's like, do I feel bad?

[1:06:59] Jess McEnally: I guess maybe a little bit, but like, I don't know.

[1:07:05] Andrew DeWolf: Like, it describes the way of death in a way that kind of haunts me, and honestly, is a little accurate.

[1:07:13] Jess McEnally: This is one of the times where Tim Rice's lyrics really stand out, where it's like, um, remember, I was very young yet then, and a year was forever and a day, so what use could 50, 60, 70 be?

[1:07:24] Andrew DeWolf: I saw the lights and I was on my way, and how I lived and how they shone, but how soon the lights were gone. Like, that breaks my fucking heart.

[1:07:31] Jess McEnally: Cause she was a young woman.

[1:07:35] Andrew DeWolf: Well, she's like, what, 33?

[1:07:37] Jess McEnally: 33, same age as Jesus.

[1:07:41] Andrew DeWolf: Extremely young.

[1:07:42] Jess McEnally: Yeah.

[1:07:43] Andrew DeWolf: Except she didn't have to get nailed to a piece of wood, so I guess she won out.

[1:07:48] Jess McEnally: She didn't have to get run out of the country and hide away like her husband did after he remarried.

[1:07:58] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, you can't do that, not after that.

[1:08:02] Jess McEnally: I want there to you know how Andrew Lloyd Webber made a sequel to Phantom of the Opera?

[1:08:08] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[1:08:09] Jess McEnally: I wanted to make a sequel to this musical, all about where in the world is Ava Perone's body.

[1:08:14] Andrew DeWolf: I think they could make a sequel just about the husband, just call it Perrone. Like, oh, she upstaged me on all every chance she got. What a bitch.

[1:08:23] Jess McEnally: What a bitch.

[1:08:26] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, and then he gets run out of the country because everyone loves her so much and he remarries and it's like, oops.

[1:08:33] Jess McEnally: I think that if I can have the biggest critique about this, I feel like they let Peron off the hook too much in this musical.

[1:08:40] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, he was like the really bad guy. Like he's like the actual like Hitler-esque figure in this situation, and he just he's like shit. He's like a side character who like nobody nobody ever criticizes him.

[1:08:52] Jess McEnally: Why is Shay not saying anything about him really?

[1:08:54] Andrew DeWolf: Like he says some stuff, but not much.

[1:08:57] Jess McEnally: Not enough because Aveda Evita was the figurehead.

[1:09:01] Andrew DeWolf: And Perone never got power again, because the only source of power we later discovered was the connection to Evita.

[1:09:09] Jess McEnally: Yeah.

[1:09:10] Andrew DeWolf: And I guess that that really proves that she really was a saint the whole time.

[1:09:14] Jess McEnally: Exactly. Let's talk about the movie.

[1:09:17] Andrew DeWolf: It won't be easy.

[1:09:21] Jess McEnally: You think it's strange when I try to explain how I feel that I still need your love after all that I've done?

[1:09:37] Andrew DeWolf: You won't be me.

[1:09:42] Jess McEnally: All you will see is a guy who once knew.

[1:09:48] Andrew DeWolf: Although she's dressed up to the nines.

[1:09:53] Jess McEnally: At sixes and sevens with you.

[1:10:02] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, the movie is surprisingly good. Um what did you think of Antonio Banderas in it?

[1:10:08] Jess McEnally: I like him a lot. I think he feels very authentic as a like an actual citizen because of his accent and everything.

[1:10:15] Andrew DeWolf: So I kind of think his diction is really hard to understand, though.

[1:10:19] Jess McEnally: Yeah, but I I kind of expect that from him. Like he's not a native English speaker, so I think this was his first English speaking role, too.

[1:10:28] Andrew DeWolf: I think he did a really good job, that everything considered, and I think he's he's he's playing a character that is supposed to represent like the modern not modern, uh, the base Argentinian, you know? And I think he really fits that role.

[1:10:45] Jess McEnally: Mm-hmm. Um, I think he does great. Um I think he does better than Madonna does.

[1:10:51] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, that's not saying much, but we'll talk about that later.

[1:10:55] Jess McEnally: I think that he really only gets a shine because he really does have vocal chops. He's been on Broadway, he's sung before. He is a talented performer.

[1:11:05] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, yeah. Like, let me not diminish that, but he really gets a shine during High Flying Adored. He's really good when he gets to hold out notes.

[1:11:10] Jess McEnally: He's not good at like the very fast patter songs that Mandy Patinkin was really good at in the original Broadway cast. So, like, oh what a circus doesn't work as well as say High Flying Adored.

[1:11:23] Andrew DeWolf: And they give him a little bit at the end of the movie, like he gets a reprised lament, and it's so fucking effective. And he gets the last kiss on A Vita. And I'm really upset they haven't added that into the movie.

[1:11:36] Jess McEnally: Or into the musical after that.

[1:11:40] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I mean, they made a lot of good choices, and this is probably one of the better adaptations that we've watched on this show so far. Uh some of the better ones being like the music man and and things like that that are usually older.

[1:11:54] Jess McEnally: Like the older ones they usually do a better job with. Um stuff like this is from the 90s, and I would expect this to actually kind of suck, and it actually doesn't, so well, I think it's probably a little bit more of higher quality because Angel Lloyd Webber finally let people change shit.

[1:12:11] Andrew DeWolf: Is this the first time he's done that? Because I mean he's gone back to not doing that, right?

[1:12:15] Jess McEnally: I mean, this is I think this was the first film adaptation that wasn't Jesus Christ Superstar, and he hated Jesus Christ Superstar.

[1:12:23] Andrew DeWolf: Which is weird, because that's actually not that bad.

[1:12:25] Jess McEnally: No, but he hated that that version of the film. And this one, he this is the first time he worked with Tim Rice in ten years. They wrote a new song for it, which I I love and has now been it brought into the musical called You Must Love Me, which I think is really important for the storytelling.

[1:12:41] Andrew DeWolf: I think it's great.

[1:12:42] Jess McEnally: Yeah. I think just the fact that he was willing to let this be a film, or he wasn't given the ungodly amount of control he was given in um Phantom of the Opera or Cats.

[1:12:53] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[1:12:53] Jess McEnally: Makes this so much better.

[1:12:56] Andrew DeWolf: And you can tell it's not like performed live or anything like that, I don't think. There's a couple scenes, and the scenes that are perfor that's how I believe live singing should be done. It should be done sparingly and effectively. And this musical does that.

[1:13:10] Jess McEnally: Madonna, the only thing that sucks is Madonna, you can tell there's a lot of effects on her voice in a lot of songs.

[1:13:17] Andrew DeWolf: Um she can't sing it. This role, she cannot perform it.

[1:13:21] Jess McEnally: Yeah, and I just the thing with these is I just don't understand. Maybe people really do only go to movies to see stars, but like if you put a nobody in this role, I feel like it would have been a better movie. You know?

[1:13:34] Andrew DeWolf: Or even put Patty Lapone from the original Broadway cast who has made a name for herself since then. She could have killed this role.

[1:13:40] Jess McEnally: Yeah, I just don't understand why we need to be hiring like famous people to be in these musicals. Like, hire people that can sing and then advertise the fact that the songs are really well done.

[1:13:54] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, well, even with Madonna, this wasn't like a huge success.

[1:13:58] Jess McEnally: Yeah, I guess. I mean, this was a time though when I don't think musicals were doing very well in the 90s, were they?

[1:14:05] Andrew DeWolf: No, they didn't come back until sh um Chicago in, I believe, or 2000. That was a good one.

[1:14:10] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, I can't I can't really blame people though. I mean, in the 90s, what was popular? Rent? I mean, people are looking at musicals and they're like, ooh, yikes. That's what's popular? Okay, never mind. I'm not gonna watch a musical. But then again, what was the closest thing to musical theater on a movie screen at the time? Red? It was the Disney films.

[1:14:30] Jess McEnally: Yes.

[1:14:32] Andrew DeWolf: But Disney films have like three songs usually, like, you know. I don't know. After Howard Ashman was introduced to Disney in 1989 with the Little Mermaid, Disney films were more like musicals than even like modern musicals were.

[1:14:47] Jess McEnally: Yeah, that's I mean, some of them, yes. Other ones, not as much.

[1:14:52] Andrew DeWolf: Mm-hmm. But um, I think this film looks incredible. I think this is probably one of the most beautiful looking musical films, like in all of musical theater.

[1:15:04] Jess McEnally: No, it looks very good.

[1:15:06] Andrew DeWolf: Um the performances are are mostly very good. You don't think Madonna actually performed as an actress very well, is my question.

[1:15:14] Jess McEnally: I think she performed just fine. I just think the singing was lackluster.

[1:15:18] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, but other people auditioned who were worse, in my opinion. Michelle Pfeiffer auditioned and her audition tape is on YouTube, and she is considerably worse. Like I can understand why they would pick Madonna, like she has a big name. She is known for singing, so it's like it's not like she's like an actress who is known for being in some movie and like no idea if she can sing or not. You know, like she is known for being a pop star who can sing, so but she really stands out in the scenes when she's dying.

[1:15:50] Jess McEnally: Like she was known for being a diva. Like two movies before this, she was in a film with Neil Patrick Harris, where she required her lighting team light her for every shot. And then in this one, yeah, I know. Yes, then in this one, she's willing to sing live, have no makeup on, and actually properly die in a way that is like ugly and mean and gross and sound bad. And I appreciate that. I'm not gonna lie, that is so effective. I don’t understand why actresses wouldn't want that, because that is like the biggest Oscar bait that is possible.

[1:16:23] Andrew DeWolf: Well, she wanted that. She won the Golden Globe. Fun fact. She wasn't even nominated for the Oscar.

[1:16:30] Jess McEnally: Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure she deserved it, but like, if you want to win an Oscar though, the best thing you can do is play somebody who's ugly, because they love that. Look at Charlize Theron in Monster.

[1:16:42] Andrew DeWolf: In the Monsters.

[1:16:46] Jess McEnally: Alright, that's about all we have to say about the movie. Andrew, what is your overall thoughts on Evita and your cheese rating?

[1:16:54] Andrew DeWolf: Oh boy. Um let's see. Well, I gotta look up a cheese, so cut this part out. Pretend this isn't happening. Okay, whatever. You can put it, keep it in. I don't care. Alright. I mean, as far as as it goes, uh, I think it's a very good show. And I know I I tried to like, you know, give a little bit of a negative viewpoint, but I'm just doing that to kind of keep it interesting and keep our episode a little spicy. But in all reality, it's a very good show, and it's a very good sound. Uh like uh very good score and and music, and I would say for the most part, the lyrics don't bother me that much, and it's just very enjoyable. Uh I would have preferred a little bit of a less biased historical aspect, but that's just me, and honestly, I think most people won't care at all about that, so uh yeah, definitely.

If you haven't seen it, it's fantastic. And um, let's see. I'm gonna give this uh uh Sardo cheese, which is uh Argentinian cheese. I think Evita is great, it's got some lackluster lyrics and as you said, a little bit of a bias, but the songs are Andrew Lloyd Webber at his best, and really it is a good album to listen to. I recommend the original 1980 Broadway cast with Patti LuPone and Mandy Patinkin, but also the movie cast is pretty good. Um if you can find the online bootleg of Carolyn Bowman and Josh Young, that is probably the best recording to find, but I'm not promoting bootlegs, I would never do that. So we're definitely not gonna say this link right now.

[1:18:41] Jess McEnally: We aren't.

[1:18:42] Andrew DeWolf: So my cheese rating is r uh Regitaneo. Uh no, Reg Gianito, which is you can't even pronounce it. It's Reginito, which is um made from unpastured and unpastured cow's milk, and it is from Argentina. It is of the Paramohan family. Its texture is crummy, flaky, and grainy. Just like this show.

[1:19:10] Jess McEnally: That's not true.

[1:19:12] Andrew DeWolf: But you know what is not crummy, flaky, and grainy? Um, our patrons.

[1:19:15] Jess McEnally: Our wonderful patrons!

[1:19:19] Andrew DeWolf: I love them all so much. Um, thank you guys for listening. You guys are honestly incredible, and we're glad that you guys keep coming back each week. I'm sorry to assume your gender. Guys, gals, and non-binaries. We love you all. Guys is uh is a gender neutral term, I'm just saying.

[1:19:35] Jess McEnally: Fuck you!

[1:19:36] Andrew DeWolf: Alright, thank you for listening. Please follow us on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher at Musicals with Cheese. Our Twitter is Cheesy Musicals, our Patreon is Musicals with Cheese, our Instagram is Music Schools with Cheese. Our YouTube page is Musicals with Cheese. Our email is musicaltheatrelives@gmail.com. Um, Andrew, is there anything else you want to say before we wrap this on up?

[1:19:55] Andrew DeWolf: Um thank you to all of our patrons. We really appreciate you, and uh also thank you to Jolene Casco for being the best.

[1:20:04] Jess McEnally: Fuck! You're right! I forgot to say anything about Joel and Casco, who is the best around. Nothing's ever ever gonna bring her down.

[1:20:15] Andrew DeWolf: Alright, let's call this a day. This has been all for Musicals with Cheese.