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[0:00] Jess McEnall: Oh hi, I didn't see you there. Well, while you're here, I wanted to let you know that today's show is brought to you by the extremely kind donations by our donors over at Patreon.

[0:09] Andrew DeWolf: Andrew, why don't you tell us a little bit about Patreon?

[0:12] Andrew DeWolf: Well, Patreon is a site you can go to if you'd like to donate to us and get some little bit of extra content. We have after parties for some episodes. We have full commentaries that we release. Um, we just did one on High School Musical.

[0:25] Jess McEnall: Oh yeah, and that's a that was an absolute classic. Um, our commentary was pretty funny, I think, but I thought we did a pretty good job.

[0:34] Andrew DeWolf: It's a jungle out here.

[0:35] Jess McEnall: It's it's a jungle in here. Uh, why don't you run through our current patrons, Jess?

[0:43] Jess McEnall: Well, our current patrons are Stephanie L, Harry Diedleman, Max Lunig, Benjamin Lear, Lily Accles, Mackenzie Horner, John Donna, Terran the Duck, Melissa Goldman, Jess Lightning, Ewan Cassidy, Hayley McDonald, Taskir, Kyle McLeod, Mina Maniri, Monica Thoreau, Brent Black, Haley Murray, Alison Wonderland, B-Way Flicks, Michael Johan, Nathaniel Stacy, Coombe, Joseph Evans Green, Uregle, DuVray, Witter, William Want, and Carrie Ahrem.

[1:10] Jess McEnall: And just a shout out to Lily Accles, who e uh increased her amount that she donates. You're the best, Lily. We love you. But all these folks give us a little extra financial support that helps us keep the lights on here, Musicals with Cheese. If you'd like to join them and get a bunch of fun crap, come join us over at Patreon.

[1:26] Jess McEnall: Alright, Andrew, are you ready to get the show started for Rizzle?

[1:29] Andrew DeWolf: Oh yes.

[1:35] Jess McEnall: Hello, I'm Jess McEnall.

[1:37] Andrew DeWolf: And I'm Andrew DeWolf.

[1:39] Jess McEnall: And welcome to Musicals with Cheese, a podcast where I try to get Andrew to like musical theater. How are you doing today, Andrew?

[1:44] Andrew DeWolf: Uh, I'm doing quite well.

[1:46] Jess McEnall: Oh, I'm sorry, I meant to say, I'm doing quite well.

[1:50] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, why'd you do it in that voice?

[1:51] Jess McEnall: I'm a girl now.

[1:56] Andrew DeWolf: You need to add the southern accent.

[1:58] Jess McEnall: I can't do a southern accent.

[2:02] Andrew DeWolf: What should I call you then?

[2:03] Jess McEnall: Uh, call me Andrew.

[2:07] Andrew DeWolf: But like that's my last name, though.

[2:10] Jess McEnall: I'm now DeWolf Andrews!

[2:12] Andrew DeWolf: The Wolf Andrews.

[2:15] Jess McEnall: Well, that's such a pretty name, Mr. Wolf Andrews.

[2:20] Andrew DeWolf: Thank you. Oh, I want to see how long we can get you to do it like this.

[2:25] Jess McEnall: I think we might be falling in love.

[2:27] Andrew DeWolf: Oh no.

[2:28] Jess McEnall: Well, I'm a girl.

[2:30] Andrew DeWolf: I'm a girl too.

[2:31] Jess McEnall: That doesn't happen in the show.

[2:33] Andrew DeWolf: Well, here it is, because the two girls fall in love, and it's really weird.

[2:37] Jess McEnall: Shut up, Jess. We're doing Tootsie.

[2:39] Andrew DeWolf: We're Tootsie-ing it up.

[2:41] Jess McEnall: We're Tootsie Rat.

[2:43] Andrew DeWolf: We're doing Tootsie.

[2:44] Jess McEnall: We're doing Tootsie.

[2:45] Andrew DeWolf: I won't let you die.

[2:49] Jess McEnall: Whatever you want me to be. You give me your trust. I give you my word. I won't let you down.

[3:03] Andrew DeWolf: Nobody sees me. Nobody listens and nobody cares. You know what's in here. Love and emotion that needs to be shared. Pick it up. I won't let you down.

[3:20] Jess McEnall: That's good. Thank you. Because you believe in me. Because you're the one who can see. I'm here and alive. I won't let you down.

[3:35] Andrew DeWolf: Cause when I felt Santa inside. Tootsie is a musical comedy with music and lyrics by David Yazbeck and a book by Robert Horn. The musical is based on the 1982 American comedy film of the same name, written by Larry Gelbart and Barry Levinson.

[3:50] Andrew DeWolf: Um, and a bunch of other people. The musical made its world premiere at the Cadillac Palace Theater in Chicago in September of 2018. Like the film, the musical tells the story of a talented actor that's also volatile, whose reputation for being difficult forces him to adopt a new identity as a woman in order to land a job.

[4:09] Jess McEnall: The original movie revolved around a daytime soap opera, while the show involves, what would you guess, Andrew?

[4:15] Andrew DeWolf: A Broadway musical.

[4:17] Jess McEnall: I mean, I don't have to guess, I've seen it, but yes, Broadway musicals.

[4:20] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, I mean, I mean a Broadway show about Broadway?

[4:24] Jess McEnall: It's never been done.

[4:26] Andrew DeWolf: Never. I'm very glad that in this description that you wrote out, we left out the horrible lead actor of the original film, Tootsie.

[4:37] Jess McEnall: Who is it on you?

[4:39] Andrew DeWolf: Um, he doesn't exist, so it doesn't matter.

[4:41] Jess McEnall: I now I need to know who is it?

[4:42] Andrew DeWolf: I don't I've never. He's a bad man who doesn't exist. Either way, Andrew, you just watched Tootsie.

[4:49] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, like five minutes ago I finished.

[4:51] Jess McEnall: Oh yeah. Well, what did you think? What is your first thoughts? Cause this is fresh thoughts from Andrew.

[4:58] Andrew DeWolf: The only way to describe Tootsie is as an absolute hoot. It is hilarious. So funny. I was rolling on the ground laughing. And like I go outside and walk out the theater, and there's posters of white people laughing. I was raffling the whole time. I'm gonna go on Twitter to say this. What an absolute hoot.

[5:22] Andrew DeWolf: It's a hoot. That's the only word I could think of when watching it is like there's people, there's probably critics out there that are describing this as a hoot. It got pretty decent critical acclaim as the thing. I didn't find almost any of the jokes funny. There's very very few of them that were kind of like, oh, I guess that's a little that's okay.

[5:42] Jess McEnall: Yeah, and then like there's a lot of jokes that just fell totally flat, and it was just like one of the audience. It's just like I'm waiting for the sad trombone to play.

[5:57] Jess McEnall: Andrew, I gave a really like basic description of the plot. Please, in your best Andrew DeWolf way, tell us what happens in Tootsie the musical.

[6:06] Andrew DeWolf: Alright, so the guy who's like wondering why he can't get work because he is an actor that just goes on set and tries to direct the show he's in, essentially. Um, which I assume I don't do acting work, but I'm pretty sure that's not what you're supposed to do as an actor.

[6:22] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, some people do it. It's like a diva ship.

[6:25] Jess McEnall: Yeah, well, if you're like a small-time actor looking for work, it's probably the best way to guarantee that you're never gonna get a job.

[6:25] Andrew DeWolf: Probably the best way to guarantee you're never gonna get a job. Um, and so he's like told about this other show that his girlfriend, a friend that is a girl, not his girlfriend.

[6:47] Jess McEnall: Uh, that's impossible. Haven't you seen When Harry Met Sally? Girls can't be friends with men?

[6:52] Andrew DeWolf: It's not. It's true.

[6:53] Jess McEnall: You're absolutely correct.

[6:54] Andrew DeWolf: You're absolutely correct. It's a weird thesis that that film makes.

[6:57] Jess McEnall: It's a true thesis that I'm making right now that you can't be friends with girls.

[7:04] Andrew DeWolf: Because we gotta no girls allowed sign. They have cooties.

[7:06] Jess McEnall: They have cooties in my no girls are loud sign is no more.

[7:12] Andrew DeWolf: No, no more. One more girl. Don't let the cooties in.

[7:15] Andrew DeWolf: But yeah, his friend that is a girl is also an actress, and she's telling him about this role, and he's like, I could get that role if I just put on a wig and a girl suit.

[7:27] Jess McEnall: And so he does that, and then the whole rest is that he becomes super popular and he wins an award. Is that like he actually wins an award right at the end, right?

[7:36] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, it's crazy. It's nonsense. Um, no one can tell that it's a man in drag.

[7:43] Jess McEnall: I mean, like, even when I mean they didn't even do that great a job of the makeup. Like, say what you will about Mrs. Doubtfire, that's pretty convincing. Like that kind of I would buy that as an older woman.

[7:55] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, like maybe. Although I'd say if you're in close proximity with someone for that long, you're gonna start noticing certain things.

[8:01] Jess McEnall: And it's gonna be make out with him, like you're gonna feel some stubble.

[8:04] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. I don't know. I don't think that it would be so believable that they would be able to do this, but okay. It's a story, it's funny.

[8:14] Jess McEnall: It's a it's a is it funny?

[8:16] Andrew DeWolf: It's an absolute hoot. Um, can you put that on the poster if you want, just write my name in absolute hoot.

[8:24] Jess McEnall: No, this show got canned.

[8:28] Andrew DeWolf: Um, went to fucking see it. Everyone started going to Beetlejuice because that actually made people laugh.

[8:34] Jess McEnall: I mean, that was actually funny. This is like no edge at all.

[8:40] Andrew DeWolf: Can I tell you what happened with this musical and I think it's so fucking hilarious?

[8:44] Jess McEnall: I didn't finish with the plot yet.

[8:46] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, you're right, you're right. Okay, keep going with the plot.

[8:49] Andrew DeWolf: Um, so when he goes as Dorothy to the new play, um, or musical, I guess, it's a musical. Uh, he just changes the entire story, and the director, I guess, is okay with it because I don't know why.

[9:07] Jess McEnall: The producer liked it.

[9:08] Andrew DeWolf: The producer liked it, I guess, yeah. Um, it's a version of Romeo and Juliet, and they're gonna have it end where Romeo falls in love with the nurse.

[9:17] Jess McEnall: I mean, I watch it. I mean, I wouldn't be caught dead watching any version of Romeo and Juliet. That shit is a snooze fest.

[9:23] Andrew DeWolf: That shit is a snooze fest. Shakespeare is garbage, and his writing is bland and boring.

[9:33] Jess McEnall: God, he hates Shakespeare.

[9:35] Andrew DeWolf: You know, I really hate Shakespeare. Even that was funnier than this by like a lot.

[9:45] Jess McEnall: Uh, keep going, there's still more plot to go.

[9:48] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, and then he falls in love with what was her name? Julie? Is it Julie?

[9:53] Jess McEnall: Something like that.

[9:55] Andrew DeWolf: Uh, which is the person playing Juliet, and then the whole rest of the story is just like one of those like, oh, I'm caught in a big lie. How do I cover up this lie? Oh my goodness, how do I continue to lie? I'll just tell more lies, and then that will cover the lies.

[10:11] Jess McEnall: And I hate this type of story, and it's the worst thing ever. And then we I just like just stop fucking lying, okay? You know?

[10:18] Andrew DeWolf: You know, you just wanna have it end and they don't lie anymore. And of course, they never get their comeuppance, really. It's just like all the lies come out and everyone hates them for like one scene, and then he goes around and fixes everything, and it's oh now it's okay.

[10:31] Jess McEnall: It's like, so is this like Dear Evan Hansen played as a comedy?

[10:37] Andrew DeWolf: Uh, it's the same type of story where it's like, oh, I'm caught in all these lies. What do I do? Oh, I just tell more lies, and then I will fix it.

[10:47] Jess McEnall: Doesn't it have the basic ending of Dear Evan Hansen where it was just like they made at a park bench and she's like, I don't know if I can forgive you. And he's like, I can try to be better. And then like instantly it's like, oh, I guess, okay. Then a reprise of a song and the show ends.

[11:04] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[11:05] Jess McEnall: Yeah. It's I mean, there's a lot of stories that are this story, and I think they kind of all suck in their own ways. Um, this one kind of sucks because it's written like a frickin' sitcom.

[11:20] Andrew DeWolf: It's like it's like an episode of Friends, but played for three hours.

[11:24] Jess McEnall: Was it really three hours?

[11:26] Andrew DeWolf: Uh, it's two and a half hours.

[11:28] Jess McEnall: That's too damn long for a show like this.

[11:30] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, like if this was maybe like maybe two hours exactly, or a little shorter even, maybe I could tolerate it, but it's like a freaking it's like a romantic comedy or like a sitcom. But it's not even a good romantic comedy is the thing.

[11:46] Jess McEnall: You know by the romance between him and Julie.

[11:49] Andrew DeWolf: Not at all, not a bit.

[11:51] Jess McEnall: No. And it's just so I don't know. It's it's so absurd and ridiculous. It's like this I don't think this could ever happen in real life. And I know you're gonna say that this is like me projecting and me using a phrase that I know you hate and I kinda hate, but this is like the boomer's boomer musical.

[12:12] Andrew DeWolf: Like, oh, oh classic tropes and storytelling, and about a guy that's in too deep over his head. How is he gonna get out?

[12:20] Jess McEnall: Well, I mean, yeah, and they even tell like the boomer style jokes where there's like, oh, I hate my husband, oh my goodness. There's nothing I hate more than my husband. I wish he was dead. I was like, okay, uh, cool. That's like a total boomer joke, and I don't think anyone younger than like 50 would laugh at that.

[12:41] Andrew DeWolf: I don't think that anyone under like 50 would enjoy this show.

[12:45] Jess McEnall: No. Which is why I kept thinking of the word the whole time. I was just like, someone describes this as a hoot. Because nobody under 50 has ever said the word hoot.

[12:54] Andrew DeWolf: Um, you just did.

[12:56] Jess McEnall: Well, yeah, but I'm saying it disingenuously, I suppose, or sarcastically.

[13:02] Andrew DeWolf: Facetiously?

[13:03] Jess McEnall: Faces facetiously, I can't say that word. My goodness. I don't know how to say words, yes, Jim's a hard. People just give me money to talk and I can't do that.

[13:17] Andrew DeWolf: Can I tell you what's funny about this musical and the production of it?

[13:20] Jess McEnall: Okay, now that we've gone over the whole plot, yes, you can.

[13:23] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. It ends, he tells the truth and everyone forgives him for some reason. He tells he tells the truth on like live television on a stage at the Tony's, I think is what is implied.

[13:33] Jess McEnall: I think it was like opening night or something. It's something ridiculous. Um, something ridiculous where it was like, why'd you do this?

[13:40] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, it's like why would you do that then? Maybe just tell your, you know, close people first and then like individualized, like you don't have to make it a big thing, you know.

[13:51] Jess McEnall: Yeah, it's like you making it a big thing makes it even worse, because now it looks like it was like a publicity stunt or something like that.

[13:58] Andrew DeWolf: A little bit.

[14:01] Jess McEnall: But this show was they had such hubris behind this show, honestly.

[14:07] Andrew DeWolf: Go on. What do you got?

[14:10] Jess McEnall: It opened the remember when we did the Tonies and I was very drunk?

[14:14] Andrew DeWolf: I do remember that.

[14:15] Jess McEnall: That was the same Tony Year that this played, more or less. Um, and they were so convinced that this show is gonna be like the next Book of Mormon.

[14:23] Andrew DeWolf: It was gonna sweet.

[14:25] Jess McEnall: Well, you know what the difference between this and Book of Mormon is? Book of Mormon is like is like a spicy chili, you know? It's like there is so much like edge and humor in that, and then this is like a piece of white toast that someone put butter on.

[14:40] Andrew DeWolf: It's like there's nothing edgy about this.

[14:43] Jess McEnall: There's nothing funny about this. It's not even like that, because you have your point, which is like like white toast that's barely been put into the toaster.

[14:51] Andrew DeWolf: Um, but that when they pull it out, like there was some leftover diarrhea spilling inside the toaster, so like there's just diarrhea spread throughout it.

[15:01] Jess McEnall: Well, I mean you've already mentioned that the movie has like a little bit of controversy because of like, well, I mean, the subject matter here is not exactly modern day friendly, I wouldn't say.

[15:13] Andrew DeWolf: No, and nor is it a good joke. And it basically implies that women have a much better opportunity to get roles than men, which is a weird. The funny thing is that they try to play up like the fact that they're woke or whatever in this.

[15:28] Jess McEnall: They're pretend woke.

[15:28] Andrew DeWolf: They're pretend woke. So they're like, they're like, oh man, the pay gap, and then the audience goes crazy or whatever.

[15:34] Jess McEnall: And it's like, yeah, but if you look at the plot of this, it's implying that it's easier for women because this man couldn't get work and then he dresses as a woman and now it's easier.

[15:44] Andrew DeWolf: So are you woke or are you not woke?

[15:46] Jess McEnall: Like, you know what it feels like? It feels like some guy, like, some Todd Phillips motherfucker wrote this first, like, couple drafts of the musical.

[15:57] Andrew DeWolf: Then he let his female friend read it over, and she's like, um, I don't know how to help maybe mention the pay gap or something. Make it woke so people don't roast you on Twitter.

[16:12] Jess McEnall: Like, that is honestly one of the things that did happen with this musical. Because it is the entire creative team is all guys. David Yazbeck, Robert Horn, um, all of them were all just a bunch of dudes.

[16:26] Andrew DeWolf: And in the first draft, the ending is like, I think his last line is like, I learned to be great as Dorothy, and I gotta learn to do it without the dress.

[16:36] Jess McEnall: You mean that's kind of the really dumb thing.

[16:38] Andrew DeWolf: Gotta take off the training wheels.

[16:40] Jess McEnall: Well, the original line was I learned to be a good person as Dorothy. Can you help me learn to do it without the dress?

[16:48] Andrew DeWolf: And they're like, why does he need a woman's help to become a human being?

[16:51] Jess McEnall: Like, that is not a responsibility you have to put onto her.

[16:55] Andrew DeWolf: And that was a female reading the script and being like, Alright, that that's a big change you need to make there.

[17:01] Jess McEnall: Alright, alright. I got a pitch for this. Alright? You want you wanna make your woke musical um about a person who cross-dresses and pretends to be the other.

[17:12] Andrew DeWolf: Do a gender switch of the movie.

[17:14] Jess McEnall: It's a woman. It's a woman dressing as a man to get easier roles.

[17:18] Andrew DeWolf: That's very Shakespearean.

[17:19] Jess McEnall: Like, I feel like that works a lot better. There's a lot more comedy to be made of it.

[17:23] Andrew DeWolf: And it's already been done, for sure.

[17:25] Jess McEnall: And I mean, I don't know what exactly the moral would be, uh, if any. I and I don't really give a shit, but yeah, at least you wouldn't have this weird subtext where it's like it's easier for women because I mean he gets the job and easily as a woman, like, no problem.

[17:42] Andrew DeWolf: Um, and then he it becomes so successful, like instantaneously as a woman, and like he couldn't find any of that as a man.

[17:49] Jess McEnall: And it's like okay, but you you have that subtext, but then you're also trying to throw in like lines about like oh feminism and oh don't roast me on Twitter, please.

[17:58] Andrew DeWolf: Please don't do that.

[17:59] Jess McEnall: Please please don't say that I'm not woke on Twitter.

[18:03] Andrew DeWolf: Don't tell Andrew he's not woke on Twitter, he'll cry.

[18:06] Jess McEnall: Please don't do it, please.

[18:11] Andrew DeWolf: But no, back to like Tootsie, the producer's hubris on this show. So they had a really successful first couple of weeks.

[18:19] Jess McEnall: So and they the only show that was really in competition to them and that was new was Beetlejuice, which was floundering pretty well early on.

[18:28] Andrew DeWolf: So they bought like 10 months in advance, like at that theater, which I don't remember what it was.

[18:34] Jess McEnall: I think it was like the Walter Kerr, maybe. Let me double check that.

[18:38] Andrew DeWolf: Um, it's wonderful.

[18:44] Jess McEnall: Um, the marquee theater, I was wrong. But basically it began in April and they had it play through January 5th of 2020, which is ridiculous for me to think about because at the end they were just playing to empty houses because Beetlejuice had a sudden resurgence because of how well they performed at the Tonies.

[19:03] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, deservedly, Beetlejuice is funny.

[19:07] Jess McEnall: Yeah, in like a family kind of way.

[19:10] Andrew DeWolf: But like this should have been funny in like a family kind of way, but instead it's just kind of it's just so lame.

[19:17] Jess McEnall: It's like y it's almost like the jokes want a laugh track, you know.

[19:21] Andrew DeWolf: Well, the thing about the jokes here is I feel like they wanted to be as edgy as Beetlejuice, and say what we will about Beetlejuice, it's a family show that everyone can see, but it has edge to it.

[19:33] Jess McEnall: A little bit.

[19:33] Andrew DeWolf: It's it's a little morbid, I suppose.

[19:36] Jess McEnall: I think it's like sexually morbid and a little bit darker.

[19:39] Andrew DeWolf: It's got some darker stuff, but I wouldn't say I mean compare that to like Book of Mormon, and I don't think it even comes close, but I mean no.

[19:47] Jess McEnall: Compare that to Avenue Q, and it doesn't come close and all that too, yeah.

[19:50] Andrew DeWolf: But this, I don't know who I don't have a musical to compare this to, except maybe something rotten, but something rotten at least was original.

[19:58] Jess McEnall: Something rotten was original, and it had a it played a lot of jokes off the setting, which was this strange like setting that they were doing, which is like Shakespearean, but not really, and that's kind of funny.

[20:11] Andrew DeWolf: And this doesn't have anything.

[20:13] Jess McEnall: This is literally this could have been friends the musical, and just drop the stuff with the dress and and then you know, have Ross come out.

[20:21] Andrew DeWolf: And alright, Andrew. Since we're talking about the humor in the show, was there anything you found funny?

[20:27] Jess McEnall: Dead silence.

[20:28] Andrew DeWolf: Andrew just literally Andrew lost all bit of light in his eyes.

[20:35] Jess McEnall: I'm like trying to actually think of like one you just finished watching this.

[20:39] Andrew DeWolf: I just watched this, and I'm trying to think of like one part. The part I think and it was entirely just the guy's performance.

[20:45] Jess McEnall: But when his agent comes in and sees Dorothy and is like, oh, I'm a big fan, and then he opens the door slow.

[20:50] Andrew DeWolf: That was like chuckle, like I guess that's okay.

[20:53] Jess McEnall: Um, that was about it.

[20:56] Andrew DeWolf: Can I say like, and I this is a little bit of a spoiler for the song section, but I don't really see myself talking about this as a song.

[21:04] Jess McEnall: Go ahead.

[21:04] Andrew DeWolf: But his female friends, I think her name was Sandy.

[21:08] Jess McEnall: Sandy.

[21:08] Andrew DeWolf: It was uh Annie's dog. All of her patter songs I thought were really good.

[21:15] Jess McEnall: Like where she's just describing her day. Like, those are my kind of humor where it's just like I thought that was really well done.

[21:21] Andrew DeWolf: I think the songs themselves are effective.

[21:25] Jess McEnall: I think the music is pretty much okay to like slightly above average through the entire show.

[21:32] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, like I don't think there's any like clunkers in the songs.

[21:36] Jess McEnall: No, there was nothing that I'm like, please make this stop, you know.

[21:40] Andrew DeWolf: Even some great musicals have songs that I'm like, alright, this has gone on a bit too long.

[21:46] Jess McEnall: Yeah.

[21:46] Andrew DeWolf: Hello, Dolly.

[21:48] Jess McEnall: Yeah, Hello Dolly has a few songs that are like eight minutes long that really don't need to be.

[21:54] Andrew DeWolf: Um, but yeah, I think that her her her as a character, she makes me laugh and I find her funny.

[22:00] Jess McEnall: She's barely barely in it though.

[22:03] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I want the musical to be about her.

[22:05] Jess McEnall: Why isn't this about a struggling actress?

[22:08] Andrew DeWolf: It is about a struggling actress.

[22:11] Jess McEnall: It's about Dorothy.

[22:12] Andrew DeWolf: Fuck you.

[22:15] Jess McEnall: I want like the best parts of the last five years is Kathy trying to be an actress.

[22:20] Andrew DeWolf: Like, that is the most fun part of that musical.

[22:23] Jess McEnall: Uh, it could have been better.

[22:25] Andrew DeWolf: I think his friend, his sometimes a little funny.

[22:30] Jess McEnall: I mean they won't go too far with him.

[22:32] Andrew DeWolf: Like, he has the song where it's just like you fucked it up and like it's just one note.

[22:41] Jess McEnall: It is one note, there's no development once that is.

[22:44] Andrew DeWolf: He is a one note character in a one note like songs.

[22:48] Jess McEnall: Like, yeah, but he's in it all the time.

[22:50] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, because he need Dorothy needs someone to talk to.

[22:53] Jess McEnall: Yeah.

[22:53] Andrew DeWolf: And that's the problem with these like liars.

[23:00] Jess McEnall: You know how much I fucking love Bill Murray, don't you?

[23:02] Andrew DeWolf: I like Bill Murray, but I've never seen.

[23:02] Jess McEnall: I'm fucking glad you love Bill Murray.

[23:07] Andrew DeWolf: He's really good in like Groundhog Day and Ghostbusters.

[23:12] Jess McEnall: I don't know.

[23:13] Andrew DeWolf: He's fine.

[23:14] Jess McEnall: I like him.

[23:14] Andrew DeWolf: He's got a very dry delivery.

[23:19] Andrew DeWolf: Jeff?

[23:17] Jess McEnall: Um, what were you talking about?

[23:20] Jess McEnall: Yeah.

[23:20] Andrew DeWolf: My name Jeff.

[23:21] Jess McEnall: My name's.

[23:26] Andrew DeWolf: Um.

[23:27] Jess McEnall: Oh my god.

[23:27] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, he's kind of bland as a character.

[23:29] Jess McEnall: Did any of the theatery references like Mickey chuckle? Because I feel like that's like the one time they pander to like the theater crowd, and none of them were funny.

[23:37] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, uh, the only real theater references I remember is when Dorothy's like, I'm gonna play all the big roles, and they're like, oh, Mama Rose, and oh whatever.

[23:47] Jess McEnall: Yeah, and that's not funny, and I don't know why that's not funny.

[23:49] Andrew DeWolf: It's not funny because it's not a joke.

[23:51] Jess McEnall: It's just like those are the big roles.

[23:53] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, you're right.

[23:59] Jess McEnall: Can I just say one thing positive about the storytelling before we move on to a mid-show announcement?

[24:08] Andrew DeWolf: Um, sure.

[24:10] Jess McEnall: I think the emotional moments work really well.

[24:13] Andrew DeWolf: I think when it's trying to be sincere, the show is pretty good.

[24:16] Jess McEnall: Like when Dorothy like mouth kisses uh Julie for no reason, like out of nowhere.

[24:21] Andrew DeWolf: No.

[24:22] Jess McEnall: No, that was bad.

[24:23] Andrew DeWolf: You don't you didn't like that part?

[24:24] Jess McEnall: No, I did not like that.

[24:25] Andrew DeWolf: You weren't a fan you weren't a fan of that part?

[24:27] Jess McEnall: What about the time when Julie comes in and she's like, Alright, I'm down to be a lesbian with you. Get your clothes off. Let's have sex.

[24:33] Andrew DeWolf: I mean that part.

[24:35] Jess McEnall: I think that is the closest thing the show got to being clever in the book.

[24:38] Andrew DeWolf: Where I was like, oh fuck, I didn't see that coming.

[24:42] Jess McEnall: I mean, I totally saw that coming.

[24:44] Andrew DeWolf: Really?

[24:45] Jess McEnall: Because it's part of the liar story. Now he has to lie again.

[24:48] Andrew DeWolf: What does he do? Now he the lie is that he's the woman and that he the woman likes hit her, and now she's buying into that lie, so he has to lie again to fix it.

[24:58] Jess McEnall: And it just plays into the whole lying thing.

[25:02] Andrew DeWolf: Anything to force him to have to tell another lie.

[25:07] Jess McEnall: I guess.

[25:07] Andrew DeWolf: I didn't see it coming because I was like, oh, you you're gonna want to be with this old, old, ugly white woman.

[25:13] Jess McEnall: I mean, I would.

[25:15] Andrew DeWolf: Really?

[25:16] Jess McEnall: What about the guy that tattooed?

[25:18] Andrew DeWolf: That was like they wanted that joke to land, but that was like something out of Drake and Josh.

[25:22] Jess McEnall: Oh no, I don't like that.

[25:25] Andrew DeWolf: That that is that is a joke that I would you'd expect to see on Nickelodeon, like one of their live action shows.

[25:30] Jess McEnall: It was that lame.

[25:32] Andrew DeWolf: Did you notice that the girl that played Julie was also Sandy from SpongeBob?

[25:36] Jess McEnall: I did not notice that.

[25:38] Andrew DeWolf: I did not notice that, I'll be honest with you.

[25:40] Jess McEnall: Yeah, she's really good in this show.

[25:42] Andrew DeWolf: I think like when she has her moment to tell like her sad life story, I think that really works too.

[25:47] Jess McEnall: Like when you give her the the bits like her and um fucking Michael's friend, they they hold the show up and make it not complete garbage.

[25:58] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[25:59] Jess McEnall: But she was better in SpongeBob.

[26:01] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, everything was better in SpongeBob.

[26:03] Jess McEnall: SpongeBob was a funny-f SpongeBob was funnier.

[26:05] Andrew DeWolf: There was more funny jokes.

[26:07] Jess McEnall: Yeah, there's more funny jokes in SpongeBob.

[26:09] Andrew DeWolf: SpongeBob actually had set design.

[26:11] Jess McEnall: A lot of really good set design.

[26:13] Andrew DeWolf: This one had one set, and it was like the it was like Jerry Seinfeld's house.

[26:19] Jess McEnall: It was like I was expecting Kramer to like bust through the door.

[26:23] Andrew DeWolf: Michael, you can't be you can't be wearing a dress.

[26:26] Jess McEnall: Jerry, what are you doing in here?

[26:29] Andrew DeWolf: You gotta put the take the dress off.

[26:32] Jess McEnall: Do I have to take off my dress?

[26:33] Andrew DeWolf: It's so much easier to get the work.

[26:38] Jess McEnall: Then Jerry Seinfeld puts on like a high-pitched voice.

[26:41] Andrew DeWolf: You're like Trey!

[26:44] Jess McEnall: Is no one gonna is anyone wondering why Dorothy is like, you know, a like low tenor when she sings?

[26:52] Andrew DeWolf: There's like actual singers out there that can sound like a female, like John Cozart, and like a bunch like a bunch of other people.

[27:01] Jess McEnall: They can sing like with a voice.

[27:03] Andrew DeWolf: Chris Colfer would have been a good choice, but no, you go for Santino Fontuna, who sounds like, uh, I am Prince Hans of the Erendile.

[27:12] Jess McEnall: Yeah.

[27:13] Andrew DeWolf: Did you know he was that guy?

[27:14] Jess McEnall: Um, you know what? It's expected, you know, it's fine.

[27:18] Andrew DeWolf: Plays the worst liar revealed story.

[27:22] Jess McEnall: I hate, does he do anything besides lie?

[27:25] Andrew DeWolf: This actor is lying to us at all times.

[27:28] Jess McEnall: Um, he was on a TV show called Crazy Ex-Girlfriend.

[27:31] Andrew DeWolf: He left after the first season, and then his character comes back again in the fourth season, played by a different actor.

[27:37] Jess McEnall: Another lie, huh?

[27:39] Andrew DeWolf: Exactly. And it's, it's like negligible. It's the same fucking performance, just by another bland white actor.

[27:53] Jess McEnall: Oh, sorry to interrupt you in the middle of the show, but we've got a shill at you. Andrew, talk about Patreon and list our patrons for us.

[28:00] Andrew DeWolf: Uh, Patreon is where you can go to donate to us and get a little bit extra content, like full commentaries, after parties for certain episodes, things like that. Our current patrons are Stephanie L, Tarian Needleman, Max Lunig, Benjamin Learer, Lily Accles, Mackenzie Horner, John Donna, Terran the Duck, Melissa Goldman, Jess Lightning, Ewan Cassidy, Haley McDonald, Tess Gear, Colo McLeod, Fire September, Mina Maneary, Monica Thoreau, Brent Black, Al, uh, I skipped one.

[28:26] Andrew DeWolf: Haley Murray, pardon me. Alice in Wonderland, B-Way Flicks, Michael Johan, Lathaniel Stanley, uh, Stacey Coomb, Joseph Evans Green, Luna Rocks 222, uh, Dro Witter, pardon me, that's a harder one. William Want and Carrie Ahern, we love you all.

[28:46] Jess McEnall: Even if I can't pronounce your name, I still love you.

[28:49] Andrew DeWolf: On, uh, a fundamental. When you guys become our patrons, you should send us like a pronunciation guide.

[28:53] Jess McEnall: Don't actually do that. It's funnier if I pronounce it wrong.

[28:59] Andrew DeWolf: Except if you're Mina Maneri. She doesn't like that.

[29:01] Jess McEnall: I'm sorry, Moroni. The angel Moroni.

[29:06] Andrew DeWolf: But these folks give us a little extra financial support that helps us keep the lights on here, Musicals with Cheese. If you'd like to join them in supporting us, you can get tons of fun perks. It's just patron-only commentaries, or episodes a day earlier or even earlier. Come join us over at Patreon.

[29:18] Jess McEnall: Alright, Andrew, you ready to get back to the show?

[29:21] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[29:21] Jess McEnall: Or the calendar inside your head is running out of pages. What do you do if you can see the odds are good? You'll never be the person you've been trying for for ages. Is it luck? Is it fate? Is it something that you ain't? Like an overwhelming play of humble pie. What do you do when everything you wanted more than life itself is laughing at you, calling you a jerk? What do you get to? You make it work. What do you do when everything is happening? But everything is happening to everybody but you? All the buffoons, frauds, and figs are getting jobs and getting breaks and eating steaks, but nobody will touch you. Are you haunted by the fact? All you want to do is act, and it's all you want to do until you die. Smashing away at the same old door, your arms are tired, your fists are sore. The patience you've got left is wearing thin.

[30:23] Andrew DeWolf: So what do you think about Michael's god-awful I want song?

[30:28] Jess McEnall: Which is what do you do?

[30:30] Andrew DeWolf: I'm struggling to even recall.

[30:35] Jess McEnall: It is like plant. Like if I didn't, it is the song that I would use to like sum up the sound in my head when I think of male hubris, which is like this bouncy, like almost militaristic number like, what do you do when you gotta do these things? Oh, what do you do when do do I'm gonna dress up like a woman? Dress like a woman. Uh, it's not very good.

[31:01] Andrew DeWolf: It isn't, and I don't understand his want aside from like I'm gonna do what he wants to be an actor. He wants to be a successful actor.

[31:08] Jess McEnall: Successful, like not good. Like the thing is, is he a good actor? Is the question. We never really see him act.

[31:14] Andrew DeWolf: I guess I do when he's Dorothy. Unless you consider him pretending to be Dorothy to be acting.

[31:22] Jess McEnall: In which case, you do. Um, but I would not call that acting. I would call that lying.

[31:27] Andrew DeWolf: What is the difference between acting and lying?

[31:30] Jess McEnall: Acting, uh, the people watching you know that you're pretending to be something. Lying, you don't tell them. It's like, would you consider Andy Kaufman's work? Um, acting or lying?

[31:41] Andrew DeWolf: It's acting because you know what he's doing on some level.

[31:48] Jess McEnall: On some level, okay. Yeah, whereas if he went out in public and just on the sidewalk walked up to somebody and just started doing that, then it would be diarrhea on their face.

[31:58] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, it would be a little different, you know.

[32:03] Jess McEnall: I mean, I guess. But the thing is with usual characters, let's take Once on this Island because we just did that.

[32:11] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[32:12] Jess McEnall: That character, um, of Timoon, um, you understand what she wants, why she wants it, and all that nonsense. And she's also very compelling in all that, and we want to see her be successful. How, what do we want to see of Michael?

[32:23] Andrew DeWolf: What do we want to see of Michael to be successful to?

[32:29] Jess McEnall: I want to see Michael come over to my house and stomp these dogs' heads in.

[32:38] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, fair. Uh, what do we want to see to see Michael be successful? Like, why do we want to see Michael be successful? It's one thing to have a protagonist we don't like and we want to see fail, but in the end, he doesn't fail is the thing.

[32:50] Jess McEnall: Yeah.

[32:51] Andrew DeWolf: So it's like the very first scene you see him, um, he's already kind of just being a pretentious douche. You know? The first scene you see him, he's like, oh well, I gave my character a backstory, and um, he wouldn't do that. He wouldn't even be singing this song. It's like, just shut up. Just go away.

[33:15] Jess McEnall: I feel like this musical is trying to have a framework very similar to Groundhog Day. Um, the musical, not the movie, because fuck Bill Murray. Um, where even in that one, even if we don't like Phil Connors as a character, we understand he doesn't want to be stuck in the middle of the cold. He wants to be back at home doing his easy work. Like, on a spiritual level, we all kinda get that, even though we don't really love Phil Connors as a person. Michael, we don't all like ruin all of our relationships and then blame other people for it. Psychopaths do that, and so do internet personalities and nobody else.

[33:52] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, and I mean psychopaths and internet personalities are basically the same thing.

[33:56] Jess McEnall: So if you're...

[33:56] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, yeah.

[34:01] Jess McEnall: Especially if you run a podcast about musical theater.

[34:05] Andrew DeWolf: Like we do.

[34:06] Jess McEnall: Exactly. Exactly. We're both terrible.

[34:07] Andrew DeWolf: We're both like, we're Patrick Bateman it up. We just look at ourselves. I go out on the street and I tell people you don't have a podcast, I can't relate to you. And then I stab them to death.

[34:20] Andrew DeWolf: How many patrons do you have? If they have anything less than us, I kill them. And if they have anything more than us, I also kill them. Because I'm jealous.

[34:34] Jess McEnall: I won't let you down. Please make the right choice. Remember my voice. I won't let you tell. Just give it some thought. I love you a lot. I won't let you down. I won't let you die.

[35:07] Andrew DeWolf: How about we talk about the big song, the one that they used to market the fuck out of the show? I won't let you down.

[35:11] Jess McEnall: Which they frame as like this very, like this big moment for Dorothy as a character, but really it's just an audition piece.

[35:20] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[35:21] Jess McEnall: It's like in, uh, it's like in High School Musical when they sing bop bop bop bop to the top. Um, breaking free.

[35:26] Andrew DeWolf: Well, or yeah, or breaking free. Or really any other song in High School Musical, because really none of them are sung plot-wise.

[35:35] Jess McEnall: So get your head in the game.

[35:37] Andrew DeWolf: Fair, fair. That's, uh, that's one.

[35:38] Jess McEnall: Um, I thought you were my favorite tale, a dream when I'm not sleeping. That's, that's, it's a jungle out there.

[35:49] Andrew DeWolf: You listen to the commentary, guys, you're missing out. Um, but yeah, this is literally she just comes in, well, he just comes in. He never actually identifies as a woman, so it's always a he, right?

[36:00] Jess McEnall: No, he is not transgender, he is a he.

[36:02] Andrew DeWolf: He is a fucking imposter.

[36:04] Jess McEnall: He's an imposter. He's the worst. Michael Dorsey is a monster!

[36:16] Andrew DeWolf: What the floor is that? How does nobody see that?

[36:22] Jess McEnall: Okay, so are you Delilah Andrews?

[36:25] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, I suppose that's probably what I would end up as, yeah.

[36:29] Jess McEnall: Yeah, I mean, if we're doing what he did, which is just take his last name, make it kind of feel like a lady's name. So Delilah Matthews.

[36:34] Andrew DeWolf: Or Dena Delilah Andrews. I want to take my middle name, John, and put that in the front and then do Julie, and I'd be Julie Andrews.

[36:44] Jess McEnall: Julie.

[36:48] Andrew DeWolf: Man, I'm sure unions would have no problem with that whatsoever.

[36:52] Jess McEnall: Well, not after I tell them my middle name, Andrea.

[36:56] Andrew DeWolf: No, no, no, no. What you should do is you should just call yourself, um, go by your first, um, syllable, you take the annual hudgings between it, and then you got Vanessa Ann Hudgens.

[37:12] Jess McEnall: So yeah, I won't let you down is a pointless song and it has no plot relevance. Yet they still frame it as if it's like this really impressive number because Santino Fontuna has to go up there and sing in a high register.

[37:25] Andrew DeWolf: It's weird that this woman sings entirely in falsetto. I won't let you, I can do it.

[37:33] Jess McEnall: Um, yeah, there's not really much to say about that song other than another thing. Like, the reason why Mrs. Doubtfire kind of works, and I know this is really like ridiculous to bring up, is because Robin Williams is kind of a chubby or squishy man, just in general. He's a short, squishy guy. It's easier to mold that fat into what you want it to be.

[37:54] Andrew DeWolf: Whereas Santino Fontuna, um, he's like this really built, like really strong muscular guy. Then you just put like lady tits on him, and he's just like a really insanely like ripped lady.

[38:08] Jess McEnall: Yeah. You know, like a granny dress. With like a, you know, chiseled chin. Like, does nobody mention that? You have such a strong chin, you know that, Dorothy?

[38:18] Andrew DeWolf: Dorothy, you have a very, very strong chin.

[38:24] Jess McEnall: Dorothy, are you seeing anyone later tonight? Cause you got that strong chin. I could use that to open up a couple of bottles at a party tonight. There's just something about ladies, you know. You get that nice body, and then that sexy goatee.

[38:39] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, Andrew, if you just shaved your goatee, I bet you'd be more passable as a lady than fucking...

[38:39] Jess McEnall: You better believe it. Yeah, I mean, I've gotten the ladies on my date nights before. You know, the waitress walks over and says, "Ladies, how can..." Oh, I used to get that back when I was like on YouTube and had the really long blonde hair like all the time.

[39:04] Andrew DeWolf: A miss, miss, and then you turn around and say, "What do you need?" And then they like a voice intentional like a heart attack.

[39:15] Jess McEnall: They have a seizure and die.

[39:18] Andrew DeWolf: Played Carousel on the road for the winter. From April to June, I toured Cabaret. Then Mother Courage in stock in New England all summer. And John tried to call almost every day. He told me he wanted some kids and a wife. And that's when I realized this is my life. I made my choice, but I never expressed it. And when I got home, can you guess?

[39:49] Jess McEnall: Yeah, I guess it was gone. Everything on the left of the closet was gone. His electric guitar and his amp and his car were gone. Just poof. There I was standing under a roof alone. And yes, my heart was almost broken, but I'd made my choice, and I'd make it again and now. Where's John? I think Portland May, or maybe it's Oregon. With a kid and a wife, and he is me. Another dressing room number 1003.

[40:36] Jess McEnall: Exactly where I should be. Exactly where we should be. And everything's okay. I want to talk about there was John really briefly. I think this song really works. I think this song has like a good description of why Julie does what she does. It's Julie's backstory. It's not even her backstory, it's her value set. Which is I had this guy, I liked him a lot, but I wanted to do acting more, and you know what? When I came back, he wasn't there, and fuck him. Uh now I get to live in a dressing room and do what I like. And it's framed as a positive thing. And it's very rare to see, like, hey, a woman working really hard framed positively, and it's not just something she has to overcome. That that was good. I mean, I don't I'm trying not to give the show too much credit, but as far as credit goes, yeah, that was fine.

[41:35] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. I mean, I don't think any of the songs are like bad, but it's like I'm trying to think of anything that really stood out to me in this really not much. I mean, what is the act one closer?

[41:46] Jess McEnall: Unstoppable.

[41:47] Andrew DeWolf: I know that one.

[41:48] Jess McEnall: Yeah, it's good.

[41:49] Andrew DeWolf: It's like, but like, what is it? I don't know. It doesn't seem like when they close act one, it doesn't really seem like there's any big moment that like needs to be resolved in act two.

[41:58] Jess McEnall: I disagree. It's just that Dick kisses her, which is weird.

[42:03] Andrew DeWolf: Right? It was really weird. It's like sexual assault levels of weird.

[42:06] Jess McEnall: Yeah.

[42:08] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, it is still it is sexual assault. Just cause he's dressed as a woman and everyone thinks he's a woman doesn't mean it's not sexual assault.

[42:14] Jess McEnall: Yeah, not sexually assaulted by guys. I don't like it. It's not fun.

[42:18] Andrew DeWolf: It's not. It just because they're the same s uh gender doesn't mean that they're uh not sexual assault.

[42:26] Jess McEnall: Yeah, so it's not that was uh you know name another musical that ends with uh like cliffhanger of a sexual assault.

[42:35] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, I'm sure there is one.

[42:37] Jess McEnall: Oh, I am too, and I'm trying to rack my brain for it. I know the ending of act one of Falsettos ends with like spousal abuse.

[42:44] Andrew DeWolf: I mean what about like like Oklahoma? Doesn't the guy the in the in the ballet kind of do it?

[42:51] Jess McEnall: I mean, that's a dream.

[42:53] Andrew DeWolf: It's a dream, but it's in there.

[42:55] Jess McEnall: Yeah, I guess. Uh I guess. Uh great content we got here.

[43:03] Andrew DeWolf: Oklahoma's better than this.

[43:05] Jess McEnall: What?

[43:06] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, yeah.

[43:07] Jess McEnall: Yeah.

[43:09] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[43:11] Jess McEnall: Alright. Um, can I talk about one more number? And I think that's really all we need to talk about.

[43:17] Andrew DeWolf: Sure.

[43:17] Jess McEnall: Um, once again, it's another moment where I think that the emotions work pretty well.

[43:23] Andrew DeWolf: Sure.

[43:23] Jess McEnall: And that is Talk to Me Dorothy, where Michael just looks in the mirror and asks the advice for the woman he's been from the woman he's been playing. Like, you are a better person than I am. Tell me what I'm supposed to do. And he basically ends with like, I gotta stop being you and learn to like make myself as good as you are. Now he he realizes that he is Dorothy already, right?

[43:47] Andrew DeWolf: It's not like a Jekyll and Hyde thing, no. It's more like a metaphorical storytelling thing. You're a better person than me. This scarecrow I built that is an entire entirely built from lies is a better person than the real me.

[44:02] Jess McEnall: The scarecrow I built built of lies. I mean, that is a fair description of what he d has done. I mean, uh I don't think there's a better way to sum it up. It's better than Jeff sums it up. Not long ago, there was a man, an angry guy, awkwardly aging committed, but kind of self-destructive, winding his way through life till ambition and circumstance conspired to deliver an opportunity. No one except a megalomaniacal actor with nothing to really lose or consider. So then of course, this guy puts Oh yeah, this guy is you. In case you were wondering, puts on a dress and wig and heels, and actually gets the part. And surprisingly, everything goes very well. But then, and how do I say it? You fucked it up.

You really fucked it up. You got applause, you got the fame, except it wasn't exactly for you. And now you're in love with a girl who thinks you're somebody that you're not, and in case you forgot. I'll tell you who you really are. You're the guy who fucked it up. You're really fucked it up. Listen, Mike I know, and Mr. Opportunity comes tiptoeing and teasing you're the kind of man who grabs him by the ball. How does Jeff sum it up? You fucked it up. You're really fucked it up.

[45:14] Andrew DeWolf: Oh yeah, that's the uh that's like the opening of act two.

[45:18] Jess McEnall: Yeah.

[45:18] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, it has nothing to do with the plot, which I guess is fine. Jeff is like the character that's supposed to be like, oh he's a funny one. He's funny, and he's he's just he's straight to the point and down to earth, but it's just like he isn't really doing anything.

[45:33] Jess McEnall: No, a real friend would be like, and you're not going the fuck outside. You're staying here, and you're getting this shit out of your head and just like smack the shit out of him until he's like, stop it! Stab it! Here's what you're gonna do to solve this Dorothy problem. Don't ever do it again. Ever. Ever. There's a mistake, and you should feel bad.

[45:53] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[45:53] Jess McEnall: And if everyone anyone calls asking where Dorothy is, uh, you answer and you say she dies, she's dead. She's gone forever. I killed her.

[46:04] Andrew DeWolf: Because um, I mean, what kind of friend lets their friend just continue to dig a hole for themselves like this?

[46:12] Jess McEnall: I mean, you you've probably done it before to me.

[46:15] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, I dig myself into a lot of stupid holes.

[46:18] Jess McEnall: I don't think so.

[46:19] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, there was that one time where well we won't go into that.

[46:23] Jess McEnall: Not on Mike.

[46:30] Andrew DeWolf: Jess, please. Let's not talk about that.

[46:32] Jess McEnall: Okay, okay.

[46:33] Andrew DeWolf: Okay.

[46:34] Jess McEnall: But no, I think that moment is done pretty well.

[46:36] Andrew DeWolf: Uh, you mean Jeff sums it up?

[46:38] Jess McEnall: No, not that moment. Talk to me, Dorothy. Because I'm that's like, oh, I get the emotions here, and I think it's effective.

[46:45] Andrew DeWolf: Um, yeah.

[46:46] Jess McEnall: Uh what's your overall thoughts on this? Because honestly, I don't think I have anything left to say.

[46:53] Andrew DeWolf: Uh I think that this musical is bad. I don't think that it's not without merit, but I think it's very, very bad, unhealthy, unproductive, and just overall piss poor effort. I think it's very, very bland. It's it's extremely like, you know, white bred, nothing special going on. Just bare bones, easy watching. And I think if you are, and I don't think this is anyone in our audience, but if you are over 50 years old and want to fall asleep in a theater and have the money to spend, this is probably the perfect thing to watch.

[47:35] Jess McEnall: I mean, you're not wrong. You might wake up and chuckle like once and then fall back asleep, you know? It's that it's that kind of that kind of show. You know, like if you fall asleep and then you wake up and you're like, oh, that's a man in a dress. And then you fall back asleep, you know? This is like the blandest minstrel show I've ever seen.

[47:56] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, it's just okay. I mean, as far as a cheese rating, I think the only cheese I could possibly give it is like one of those craft singles. You know, it's like, yeah, it's it's wrapped up in plastic and it it tastes like rubber.

[48:12] Jess McEnall: You know what? I'm gonna go um a little more extravagant.

[48:17] Andrew DeWolf: Um doesn't deserve it, Jess.

[48:19] Jess McEnall: It doesn't deserve it, Jess.

[48:21] Andrew DeWolf: Um, yeah, I deserve it. Jess. I'm good enough. After watching Tootsie, I deserve a little bit of something good.

[48:26] Jess McEnall: Sure.

[48:27] Andrew DeWolf: So I am giving this cheesecake made of Tootsie Rolls, which is a real thing.

[48:32] Jess McEnall: I mean, that's fantastic, but I don't think that this show deserves cheesecake. I think this show deserves maybe like uh grilled cheese at best.

[48:46] Andrew DeWolf: Grilled cheese with a Tootsie roll put in the center of it.

[48:49] Jess McEnall: Yeah.

[48:50] Andrew DeWolf: But you know, you can give a cheesecake with Tootsies.

[48:52] Jess McEnall: I mean, that's that's funny.

[48:53] Andrew DeWolf: I get the pun, Jess.

[48:55] Jess McEnall: You do?

[48:56] Andrew DeWolf: Did you did you like the pun?

[48:57] Jess McEnall: I get the pun.

[48:58] Andrew DeWolf: You get the pun?

[48:59] Jess McEnall: I understand your joke.

[49:02] Andrew DeWolf: Alright, since we're here, how would you Muppetize this?

[49:06] Jess McEnall: Alright, Muppetize. Um Let's see. Uh Julie, Miss Piggy. Obvious.

[49:13] Andrew DeWolf: Wait, I maybe Michael should be Miss Piggy.

[49:16] Jess McEnall: Michael, I think, is Kermit.

[49:17] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, he is the type to get himself into deep.

[49:20] Jess McEnall: He gets into Jeff is Gonzo.

[49:22] Andrew DeWolf: Uh Jeff Jeff is Fozzie.

[49:26] Jess McEnall: Yeah, alright. Jeff is Fozzie. The pieces are coming together. Gonzo is the director. Um he's like out on the stage, he's like, I'm great and I'm awesome, and he's got his like big thing. More explosions, more cannonballs!

[49:39] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, and then he's got like chickens all around him. Um he doesn't understand why people find um Dorothy so attractive because she's not a chicken.

[49:48] Jess McEnall: Sandy.

[49:49] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know who Sandy is.

[49:50] Jess McEnall: Um, she's the funny gr friend girl.

[49:53] Andrew DeWolf: Girl who is a friend.

[49:55] Jess McEnall: I know who she is. I don't know who the Muppet would be.

[49:58] Andrew DeWolf: Um, why don't we have that be celebrity actress?

[50:00] Jess McEnall: That could be a celebrity guest.

[50:01] Andrew DeWolf: I could see that.

[50:02] Jess McEnall: Um, who's friends with friends with Kermit and Fozzie and she comes over and Yeah.

[50:07] Andrew DeWolf: Like, hi guys, and it's a shanti or something.

[50:10] Jess McEnall: Yeah, and then I also think um the person who tattoos their chest is also a celebrity guest.

[50:16] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, that'd be Steve Martin or something, and he's just so in love with Kermit.

[50:20] Jess McEnall: Yeah.

[50:20] Andrew DeWolf: Um then the producer character.

[50:25] Jess McEnall: Um honestly, I would probably cast that as someone kind of scary.

[50:29] Andrew DeWolf: Um, like an uncle Death kind of thing.

[50:31] Jess McEnall: Yeah.

[50:32] Andrew DeWolf: Um, or yeah, no, I'd see that.

[50:35] Jess McEnall: And then the agent.

[50:37] Andrew DeWolf: That's a celebrity.

[50:38] Jess McEnall: That's also I think that's also a celebrity guest.

[50:40] Andrew DeWolf: That's Molly Shannon or something. Like anybody who has like two scenes as a celebrity, usually, you know.

[50:46] Jess McEnall: Exactly.

[50:47] Andrew DeWolf: Like they can pop up every now and then. It's Queen Latifah or David Allen Greer or something like that. Jeffrey Tamor. And I think that this one I think we can fully cast. I think that's the Muppetization I'm gonna go with.

[50:58] Jess McEnall: Yeah, I think that'd be good.

[50:59] Andrew DeWolf: No, I'd watch that.

[51:00] Jess McEnall: I'd wa I think it would be more entertaining than what we got.

[51:03] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[51:03] Jess McEnall: Um, I'm just wondering when we get Glenn or Glenda the musical, you know?

[51:07] Andrew DeWolf: Honestly, Ed Wood the musical, like a box I don't think you can do like a full like Glenn or Glenda musical.

[51:14] Jess McEnall: There's not enough content there.

[51:16] Andrew DeWolf: There's not much content at all.

[51:18] Jess McEnall: No, but you could do like how Ed Wood does, and you could have like a Bride of the Adam, Gwen or Glendard Plan 9 musical where it's like three chunks.

[51:28] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I could see like maybe like an episodic kind of thing. Like have like a like a three-act some structure of some way, and then have it be different shows.

[51:37] Jess McEnall: Anytime you actually have Ed Wood come out and pitch it to you, alright guys, here's what's gonna happen. It's gonna it's a little cheaper than I expected, but you gotta imagine it. Like uh an octopus, a big octopus.

[51:49] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, and I I'd watch that.

[51:51] Jess McEnall: That'd be fun.

[51:51] Andrew DeWolf: I think that'd be I don't think that'd like break any records or anything, but I'd see that.

[51:56] Jess McEnall: If it's funny enough, it might, but yeah.

[51:59] Andrew DeWolf: Well well, the thing is you can't beat the Ed Wood movie.

[52:02] Jess McEnall: Yeah, but I would watch a musical of the room, though. I think that actually is ripe for being a musical.

[52:08] Andrew DeWolf: I think the problem with that would be it's gonna be hard to put that kind of dialogue into song and have it still be funny.

[52:14] Jess McEnall: No, you'd take it word for word, and the songs would just expand on one line of dialogue, kind of like how a who's line is it anyway, they gotta stop and turn the last line into of dialogue into a song.

[52:25] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[52:25] Jess McEnall: You're tearing me up on Lisa.

[52:29] Andrew DeWolf: Alright.

[52:30] Jess McEnall: Um, we're the Tootsie is so bland we're not even talking about it anymore.

[52:33] Andrew DeWolf: That's that's how But do you know who isn't bland? Our patrons are definitely not bland.

[52:37] Jess McEnall: They're not.

[52:40] Andrew DeWolf: Thank you guys for Pepper Jack watching us. They are the best types of cheese. You are incredible. I love you all so much. Here's a kiss. From both your both your musical theater daddies over here.

[52:48] Jess McEnall: Musical theater daddies.

[52:54] Andrew DeWolf: I'm like that.

[52:55] Jess McEnall: That's that's good.

[52:55] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, call us your musical theater daddies.

[53:00] Jess McEnall: Don't call us that.

[53:01] Andrew DeWolf: You got daddy Andrew and you got daddy Jess over here. Come sit on our lap.

[53:06] Jess McEnall: Uh, just call me Daddy Warbucks. Cause he'll pay pay your abortion.

[53:11] Andrew DeWolf: Either way, thank you guys for listening to us. We're on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher at Musicals with Cheese. Our Twitter is at Cheesy Musicals. Our Patreon is Musicals with Cheese. Our Instagram is Musicals with Cheese. Our YouTube page is Musicals with Cheese. Shoot us an email at musical theater lives at gmail.com. Our title card was created by the absolutely incredible, the fantabulous, the wonderful Jolene Casco. Go follow her on Instagram at Jolene Casco.

[53:37] Jess McEnall: Alright, Andrew. Is there anything else that um Delilah Andrews has to say before we wrap this on up?

[53:45] Andrew DeWolf: No, I think that's about it. What are you doing after after the show here, Delilah? You you seeing anyone right now?

[53:51] Jess McEnall: No, I'm going back to being a man.

[53:53] Andrew DeWolf: What?

[53:54] Jess McEnall: Alright, guys, we'll see you next time on Musicals with Cheese.