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[0:00] Andrew DeWolf: Hey, I didn't see you here. You shouldn't be here. We're under a quarantine still, maybe, by the time this posts. But while you're here, today's show is brought to you by the extremely kind donations by our donors over at Patreon.

[0:10] Jess McInally: Andrew, tell us a little bit about Patreon and who's supporting us.

[0:13] Andrew DeWolf: Well, Patreon is where you can go if you want to support us as well as get access to additional content, uh, such as uh commentaries, which are all phenomenal, as we all know. Um our current patrons are Stephanie L., Terry Needleman, Max Lunig, Benjamin Learer, Lily Accles, Mackenzie Horner, John Donna, Terran the Duck, the fantastic Just Lightning, Ewan Cassidy, Haley McDonald, Taskier, Fire of September, Mina Mani, Monica Thoreau, Brent Black, Haley Murray, Alice in Wonderland, B-Way Flicks, Lathaniel Stacy Coombe, Joseph Evans Green, Lunarocks22, Eragel, Dre White, Carrie Ahern, Christine Malmadale, Ben Packard, Mezzanine Theater Diary, Mary Lou Choquette, Ann Nunnley, Cole Birchfield, Sam Caulfield, John Vanels, Holy Sticality, and Russ Walker.

[0:59] Andrew DeWolf: These guys give us a little extra financial support. That helps us keep the lights on here, musicals of cheese. If you would like to join them in supporting us and get tons of fun perks such as patron-only commentaries or episodes a day earlier or even earlier, come join us over at Patreon.

[1:12] Jess McInally: Alright, folks, are you ready to start this?

[1:14] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[1:14] Jess McInally: That's good. Let's start it up.

[1:21] Jess McInally: Hello, I'm Jesse McInally.

[1:23] Andrew DeWolf: And I am Andrew DeWolf.

[1:25] Jess McInally: And welcome to Musicals of Cheese, a podcast where I try to get Andrew to like musical theater. And we have a wonderful recurring guest today.

[1:32] Andrew DeWolf: Uh extra special guest that's been here before.

[1:35] Jess McInally: Yes, you might remember him from our Book of Mormon episode.

[1:35] Andrew DeWolf: It's Robbie Johnson.

[1:39] Jess McInally: That's like our most popular episode, isn't it? Like I'd say it's pretty much all because of Robbie.

[1:43] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, Robbie brought the stank on that one.

[1:49] Jess McInally: How are you doing today, Robbie?

[1:51] Roby Johnson: Oh, just enjoying quarantine like everybody else, I guess.

[1:55] Jess McInally: Isn't it fun?

[1:56] Roby Johnson: It it's fun. But you know what? You know what I've been doing lately in my quarantine?

[2:01] Roby Johnson: Masturbating.

[2:02] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[2:04] Roby Johnson: Specifically to my favorite TV show, the Corny Collins show.

[2:04] Jess McInally: Corny Collins show!

[2:10] Roby Johnson: Yay.

[2:12] Roby Johnson: I would masturbate a Cory Collins.

[2:16] Jess McInally: This week, we're talking about Hairspray.

[2:20] Roby Johnson: Oh, uh, oh, woke up today.

[2:23] Roby Johnson: Feeling the way I always do.

[2:27] Roby Johnson: Oh, oh, oh, hungry for something that I can't eat.

[2:32] Roby Johnson: When I hear the beat, that rhythm of town starts calming me down.

[2:38] Roby Johnson: It's like a message from highable.

[2:42] Roby Johnson: Oh, oh, oh, pulling me out to the styles and the streets that I love.

[2:47] Roby Johnson: Good morning, Baltimore.

[2:54] Roby Johnson: Every night, back to sea.

[2:58] Roby Johnson: It sounds like a simple money.

[3:02] Roby Johnson: Good morning, Baltimore.

[3:05] Jess McInally: Hairspray is an American musical with music and lyrics by Mark Shaman.

[3:09] Jess McInally: Uh fuck me. God damn. Let me try that again.

[3:13] Jess McInally: Hairspray is an American musical with music by Mark Shaman and lyrics by Scott Whitman.

[3:20] Jess McInally: And a book by Mark O'Donnell and Thomas Meehan. Based on John Waters' 1988 film of the same name.

[3:26] Jess McInally: The songs include 1960 styles dance music and downtown rhythm and blues.

[3:31] Jess McInally: In 1962, Baltimore, Maryland, a plump teenager, Tracy Turnblatt's dreamed to dance on the Corny Collins show, a local TV dance program based on the real life Buddy Deane show.

[3:42] Jess McInally: When Tracy wins a role on the show and she becomes a celebrity overnight, leading to social change as Tracy campaigns for the show's integration.

[3:49] Jess McInally: In 2003, it won eight Tony Awards, including one for Best Musical out of 13 nominations.

[3:55] Jess McInally: It ran for 2,642 performances and closed on January 4th, 2009.

[4:01] Jess McInally: Hairspray has also had national tours, a West End production, and numerous forward productions, and was adapted into a 2007 musical film.

[4:09] Jess McInally: The London production was nominated for a record-setting 11 Lawrence Olivier Awards, winning four, including Best New Musical.

[4:16] Jess McInally: So guys, what is our general thoughts on Hairspray?

[4:19] Roby Johnson: The original show was fantastic. Um I can I'm trying to think of anything bad to say about it, and the I don't know.

[4:31] Roby Johnson: I guess my least favorite part is the jail big house.

[4:35] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[4:36] Roby Johnson: The that song. But you gotta nitpick just to get anything bad out of that jail.

[4:40] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, but it's really hard to find something with that original show because the cast was phenomenal.

[4:46] Roby Johnson: The I can't think of anybody who could have done those parts any better at that time.

[4:50] Andrew DeWolf: Not at all.

[4:51] Roby Johnson: And the only thing that may have ruined it was, you know, they weren't going to use the lead girl who did Tracy.

[4:58] Roby Johnson: They were gonna choose someone else because she has no experience in Broadway.

[5:02] Roby Johnson: She was just brought in to test the rollout, and she worked her ass off to keep it, and she got it, and she deserved everything she got for it.

[5:10] Jess McInally: Mm-hmm.

[5:10] Roby Johnson: And a fun anecdote about that original Broadway production that is a technical thing that no one really thought about.

[5:17] Roby Johnson: This is a very dance-heavy show, and what would happen is their Tracy's would keep losing significant amounts of weight as the show went on.

[5:25] Andrew DeWolf: So they would have to figure out ways to keep them bigger.

[5:28] Roby Johnson: Yeah. The same thing happened with Ricky Ricky. Like in 1988, John Waters had to keep fading her and fading her to keep her fat.

[5:37] Roby Johnson: And now Ricky likes like a pretty, pretty slender looking girl.

[5:40] Andrew DeWolf: Oh yeah.

[5:40] Roby Johnson: Oh yeah. She pops up every once in a while.

[5:43] Jess McInally: Mm-hmm. So, Andrew, this is your first time seeing anything Hairspray.

[5:46] Andrew DeWolf: Um, I actually had seen the movie a long time ago.

[5:50] Jess McInally: Oh my god.

[5:51] Andrew DeWolf: So that was my first experience with Hairspray.

[5:53] Andrew DeWolf: Um, but I want to say the movie is not nearly as good as the show.

[5:58] Jess McInally: Okay, I'm interested, because you're a John Waters fan.

[6:01] Andrew DeWolf: Uh, not the movie movie, the movie musical is what I saw.

[6:05] Jess McInally: Gotcha.

[6:06] Andrew DeWolf: I have not seen the movie movie, actually.

[6:11] Andrew DeWolf: This is gonna get this is confusing.

[6:15] Andrew DeWolf: I have seen the 2007 movie musical a long time ago, and I did re-watch it recently for this episode.

[6:23] Andrew DeWolf: Uh, but I watched a film version of the performance, like the show as well, and I think that the show outshines the movie by quite a bit.

[6:33] Jess McInally: Um I'm sure we'll get into the movie. I don't want to touch on that quite yet.

[6:37] Andrew DeWolf: No, I don't think we should.

[6:38] Andrew DeWolf: Uh there's a lot to say about it, I think.

[6:40] Jess McInally: Yeah, but I think Hairspray is one of those perfect book musicals, and maybe one of the last show tune musicals we've had in a long, long time.

[6:49] Roby Johnson: You mean like true like show tunes?

[6:51] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, because this is like like the closest we had is shit like Tootsie, and that's just not good.

[6:55] Roby Johnson: Yeah, I mean, because a lot of musicals are moving towards either a more straight rock style or like uh almost like modern pop.

[7:04] Roby Johnson: Or like more experimental, like Hades Town, where it's like bluesy but kinda not.

[7:08] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. I mean, this is I almost want to say this isn't show tunes, though, because it's it's a nineteen sixties dance style which just happens to kind of be what show tunes usually are.

[7:08] Roby Johnson: Didn't Beetlejuice use a lot of show tunes type?

[7:08] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, Beetlejuice also but that's like Australian punk more or uh Australian rock more than showy show tunes.

[7:28] Roby Johnson: Oh okay.

[7:29] Andrew DeWolf: Because that's just like an Australian rock writer doing fitting his world into it and fitting a bunch of genres together.

[7:35] Roby Johnson: Like there's not one showy show tune in there.

[7:38] Andrew DeWolf: So when you think of classic show tunes, I mean those are all shows that are written in the style of what the 60s right?

[7:45] Roby Johnson: But they were written in the 60s a lot of them so I mean I don't know.

[7:50] Andrew DeWolf: Doesn't that just make them modern pop for those shows?

[7:54] Roby Johnson: I mean kind of but then you got things like the producers in 2001 which is very much a showy showtune musical in the same way.

[8:01] Roby Johnson: It's emulating it those older show tunes I guess I guess.

[8:06] Andrew DeWolf: Like this one feels classic.

[8:24] Roby Johnson: What are your thoughts Robbie like just generally on the way that the music feels it feels like you're in the 60s.

[8:30] Roby Johnson: I mean I mean y'all pretty hit hit it on the head. There's not much I mean I don't know.

[8:37] Roby Johnson: It's it's tough to say Mark Shaman uh does a really good job with writing his music in a way to where it's almost indiscernible when you go from one show of his to another, and you think, okay, I can hear little bits of his stuff in there, but it he does a very good job of nailing down the setting of where and when you are, and you know it as soon as that music starts, this is where we are and what time periods.

[9:02] Roby Johnson: They uh no, they nail the 60s style.

[9:04] Roby Johnson: Like this show, the whole thing, like you could almost think that it was written in the 60s.

[9:10] Roby Johnson: It just it is it nails it so so hard.

[9:13] Roby Johnson: Just like um Little Shop does the same thing.

[9:16] Andrew DeWolf: I think this is the closest to Little Shop we've gotten.

[9:19] Andrew DeWolf: Like, cause it has that right amount of cheese and like a touch of sincerity in the same way that Little Shop has.

[9:24] Roby Johnson: Yeah.

[9:24] Andrew DeWolf: Extremely similar in tone.

[9:26] Roby Johnson: It's just weird that Little Shop took that route because it didn't really have to.

[9:30] Roby Johnson: It could have done anything they wanted, but they decided to go with like that 50s, 60s doo-wop style.

[9:35] Andrew DeWolf: I think they only went with that because it was based on that that old 50s uh movie.

[9:41] Roby Johnson: That's probably why they did that.

[9:42] Roby Johnson: And because Howard Ashman liked that style too.

[9:46] Roby Johnson: Because he brought that style into things like Rosewater as well, and a lot of that into the Disney Renaissance.

[9:53] Andrew DeWolf: And it worked every time he did it.

[9:54] Roby Johnson: Yeah, I mean, until till he died, and the Disney Renaissance went into the fucking crapper, but well Collins, baby.

[10:01] Andrew DeWolf: Just bring in Phil Collins, bring him in.

[10:04] Roby Johnson: We don't know what to do anymore.

[10:06] Andrew DeWolf: It was ruined before that.

[10:08] Roby Johnson: Um, I think Phil Collins, like Tarzan, like really put the nail on it.

[10:12] Roby Johnson: Um, I think like Pocahontas was the push into the grave, and that Phil Collins was the nail into the coffin.

[10:18] Andrew DeWolf: What about Hunchback?

[10:19] Roby Johnson: Punchback is fine.

[10:20] Roby Johnson: Like, I don't think this music is the problem in Hunchback.

[10:23] Andrew DeWolf: Hunchback's almost not even in the same style as uh the other Renaissance thing, though.

[10:29] Andrew DeWolf: Like Hercules, I feel like it is more wacky and out of the sorts of Disney Renaissance than Hunchback is.

[10:35] Roby Johnson: Yeah.

[10:36] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, we're not even talking about Home on the Range, but back to Hairspray.

[10:39] Roby Johnson: Well, Home of the Range is a classic.

[10:44] Jess McInally: I'm gonna get us to talk about Home on the Range one day.

[10:47] Roby Johnson: The director follows me on Twitter is another thing.

[10:50] Roby Johnson: The director of Home on the Range follows me on Twitter.

[10:52] Jess McInally: He would probably love to see us talk about it.

[10:55] Roby Johnson: He or she.

[10:56] Roby Johnson: I honestly don't know who directed that.

[10:59] Jess McInally: But nevertheless, can we talk a little bit about the characters like and what they are?

[11:04] Jess McInally: Because they're all so fully developed despite very little stage time.

[11:09] Roby Johnson: Like it's a very much an ensemble piece with Tracy at the center, but everyone feels like they're sharing in that pretty well.

[11:15] Andrew DeWolf: Okay.

[11:16] Roby Johnson: Like, even yeah.

[11:18] Roby Johnson: Well, Tracy's an excellent character, I think.

[11:20] Roby Johnson: She's a little bit like overly optimistic a lot of times, but it's it works in this.

[11:27] Andrew DeWolf: What happens when you're fat?

[11:30] Roby Johnson: What no one told me?

[11:32] Roby Johnson: But it it kind of it her personality kind of drives the show, and it works for this like peppy, cheesy kind of uh show tunes musical.

[11:44] Roby Johnson: Uh it's like you gotta have that character that's just like everything's awesome, and I'm everything's gonna work out great.

[11:51] Andrew DeWolf: But what separates characters like that from Annie, who you hate?

[11:54] Roby Johnson: Well, Annie is in the worst possible situation, and she's the worst possible person.

[12:00] Roby Johnson: I don't really know what separates her.

[12:03] Andrew DeWolf: I don't really know.

[12:04] Roby Johnson: Annie's just a bad show, I think is what it is.

[12:09] Andrew DeWolf: No what? Fair.

[12:12] Roby Johnson: Do you think Hairspray is better than Annie?

[12:14] Andrew DeWolf: A lot better than Annie, yeah.

[12:17] Roby Johnson: I wonder.

[12:18] Roby Johnson: What do you think about Edna?

[12:20] Andrew DeWolf: Edna?

[12:20] Roby Johnson: Oh, is that not her name?

[12:21] Andrew DeWolf: What's the mom's?

[12:22] Roby Johnson: No, you're right. Edna.

[12:23] Roby Johnson: No, you're you're right.

[12:25] Roby Johnson: Like, she she was originated by um Harvey Fierstein, who is incredible in the role.

[12:30] Roby Johnson: Like he sounds like a heavy smoker mom.

[12:33] Roby Johnson: Like it's still very deep and very Harvey Fierstein, but it works.

[12:38] Andrew DeWolf: He had to shave everything, I'm sure.

[12:40] Roby Johnson: Oh, I'm sure.

[12:40] Roby Johnson: Like I can imagine the grooming that had to do day after day.

[12:44] Roby Johnson: He's the second hairiest man in the world.

[12:46] Andrew DeWolf: First only to the down the shower during probably every night.

[12:51] Roby Johnson: Oh my god.

[12:54] Roby Johnson: But yeah, he that is a fully developed character, and they never once are like it's a man in a dress.

[12:59] Roby Johnson: Isn't that funny? Isn't it funny that it's just a man in a dress?

[13:03] Andrew DeWolf: It wouldn't even make sense to do that joke, though, because it's like it's not the man in a dress, even according to the show.

[13:09] Roby Johnson: It's supposed to actually be a woman.

[13:11] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[13:11] Roby Johnson: Although, like Adam Sandler movie would do that joke anyways, because you know Jack and Jill exists.

[13:17] Andrew DeWolf: But like But yeah, it's it's great that they never do that joke because that is honestly not a funny joke.

[13:24] Roby Johnson: It's just dumb.

[13:25] Andrew DeWolf: And the movie kind of does that joke, is the worst thing.

[13:28] Roby Johnson: I feel like the movie does the joke like, oh, it's John Travolta in a dress.

[13:33] Andrew DeWolf: It doesn't, it's not specifically that it's a man, it's that it's John Travolta.

[13:37] Roby Johnson: Yeah.

[13:39] Andrew DeWolf: Not much of a stretch had to be made to make that happen.

[13:42] Roby Johnson: No, not really.

[13:45] Roby Johnson: I remember when they announced that John Travolta was gonna play that part, I was like, and I just like it.

[13:52] Andrew DeWolf: I think it's terrible casting, though.

[13:54] Roby Johnson: It is.

[13:55] Roby Johnson: Oh, I d uh, yeah.

[13:57] Roby Johnson: They I mean I don't know why they chose him.

[14:00] Roby Johnson: Honestly, there were so many others that could have done that so well.

[14:03] Roby Johnson: Christopher Walken as the dad.

[14:04] Andrew DeWolf: I feel like that was maybe even worse casting.

[14:07] Roby Johnson: I'm not wasn't he a Broadway guy at some point?

[14:11] Roby Johnson: He was a big dancer, like when he was younger, but he doesn't even really dance in the movie though.

[14:16] Andrew DeWolf: Now we're in the movie.

[14:18] Roby Johnson: Yeah, we we do it's hard not to though, because the movie just ruins so much.

[14:22] Roby Johnson: The movie's just an insane, like Edna in the show is a great character.

[14:28] Jess McInally: Yes.

[14:29] Roby Johnson: With a proper arc and eventually come she hates herself at the beginning because of the way she looks, and then she's inspired by her daughter, despite being what she is, to become like comfortable with herself.

[14:39] Andrew DeWolf: And in that final number, it's really is a compelling emotional arc when she's like, I don't care what the fuck you think about me.

[14:46] Jess McInally: Right.

[14:46] Roby Johnson: Does Tracy really have an arc now that I'm thinking about it?

[14:49] Andrew DeWolf: No, because she is the beacon of life.

[14:51] Roby Johnson: Yeah.

[14:52] Andrew DeWolf: It's kind of like she is guiding other people.

[14:55] Roby Johnson: She has a moment of darkness.

[14:57] Jess McInally: Yes.

[14:58] Roby Johnson: And then she comes right back.

[14:59] Andrew DeWolf: So but the moment of darkness is just her, like, oh man, maybe I was wrong, and then it's like, oh no, no, I was right the whole time.

[15:05] Roby Johnson: Never mind.

[15:05] Jess McInally: Yeah.

[15:06] Roby Johnson: Well, I mean, she it's just her fighting the world.

[15:09] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[15:10] Roby Johnson: Is she borderline Mary Sue?

[15:13] Andrew DeWolf: In a good way, maybe.

[15:14] Roby Johnson: Yeah.

[15:15] Andrew DeWolf: Like, it's not a negative towards it, but like everyone who meets her suddenly really likes her, and no one has a bad thing to say about her except blatant enemies.

[15:23] Roby Johnson: But it's played almost for laughs.

[15:25] Andrew DeWolf: Like it's like, man, everybody really likes her, I guess.

[15:29] Roby Johnson: Except for like the teachers and shit.

[15:31] Andrew DeWolf: Like the gym teacher hates her, and like well, those people are just evil and they can't be swayed by her perfection.

[15:37] Roby Johnson: They don't like fat people.

[15:39] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, fat people should should die.

[15:41] Roby Johnson: Because did you notice that she was the only fat person in the entire world?

[15:45] Andrew DeWolf: Uh, other than her mother and um and uh Motorbell.

[15:49] Roby Johnson: Motormouth.

[15:50] Andrew DeWolf: They were the only three overweight people in the entire cast, the movie, everything.

[15:55] Roby Johnson: Nobody else, like no extras could be overweight.

[15:58] Andrew DeWolf: Alright.

[15:58] Roby Johnson: It's almost like that they don't recognize an obesity epidemic when they see one.

[16:03] Andrew DeWolf: Well I mean, I I don't know much about Baltimore in the 60s, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't just one two or three fat people and everybody else was super hot.

[16:12] Jess McInally: I don't think so.

[16:13] Roby Johnson: Uh we never really got to see everybody though.

[16:15] Andrew DeWolf: We only saw the nicest kids in town and Tracy's little group.

[16:18] Roby Johnson: Yeah, I mean, no definitely they wouldn't be on the Corny Collins show.

[16:22] Andrew DeWolf: I'd be like, Well, no, but I'm thinking like the kids in the in the detention.

[16:25] Roby Johnson: You know, they were all skinny black people.

[16:28] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[16:28] Roby Johnson: Well, now that we brought that up, can we talk about the way that the show handles race and the race like uh the arc of this is like people can be lightly racist to racism is solved.

[16:41] Andrew DeWolf: Hooray.

[16:42] Roby Johnson: That is the plot line here.

[16:44] Andrew DeWolf: I think I think my only issue with how they handled Tracy solved racism, guys.

[16:49] Roby Johnson: Yeah, it's the ending.

[16:51] Andrew DeWolf: It's just where they're like, alright, well, yeah, we've been dealing with racialists the whole time, but at the end, I mean, we solved it.

[16:58] Roby Johnson: It's over, guys.

[16:59] Andrew DeWolf: I think it was more I think it's more about the racism of the Negro Day stuff on the Corney Collins show.

[17:06] Roby Johnson: It was more just about integration than racism.

[17:09] Andrew DeWolf: Um, you know, the guy who owns the station finally saw, oh, wait a minute, I can make money off these black people.

[17:15] Roby Johnson: I'm being that was a revelation.

[17:19] Andrew DeWolf: Uh the only thing that I didn't know.

[17:23] Roby Johnson: Yeah.

[17:24] Andrew DeWolf: I just didn't like we figured it out.

[17:27] Roby Johnson: I just hated how um Amber and her mom were all just all all is forgiven at the end.

[17:35] Andrew DeWolf: That was the one good thing the movie did, is they didn't make it all as forgiven.

[17:39] Roby Johnson: Yeah.

[17:39] Andrew DeWolf: But I mean, just especially the mom character who is like just horrible.

[17:45] Roby Johnson: What's her name?

[17:46] Andrew DeWolf: Velma or something like that?

[17:47] Roby Johnson: Yeah, Velma.

[17:48] Andrew DeWolf: She is Baltimore crabs.

[17:50] Roby Johnson: She's like actually the worst.

[17:52] Andrew DeWolf: She's like really racist.

[17:54] Roby Johnson: She hates she hates all black people.

[17:56] Andrew DeWolf: She hates fat people.

[17:58] Roby Johnson: Uh she hates pretty much anyone that isn't her daughter, to be honest.

[18:01] Andrew DeWolf: She she really does.

[18:03] Roby Johnson: And she like spews out all these slurs like I hate this and this and this and this.

[18:08] Andrew DeWolf: It's just like she's just awful, and you don't want to see her forgiven.

[18:12] Roby Johnson: You want to see her dropped off a cliff, Disney style.

[18:15] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[18:17] Roby Johnson: Exactly.

[18:18] Andrew DeWolf: And they're all like, oh, oh no, you can dance with us.

[18:20] Roby Johnson: No, we can't.

[18:21] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, you can.

[18:21] Roby Johnson: No, we can't.

[18:22] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, we can.

[18:27] Roby Johnson: She can't stop the beep.

[18:31] Andrew DeWolf: But I'm not gonna lie, that ending song is the most infectious like ending number.

[18:36] Roby Johnson: Absolutely.

[18:37] Andrew DeWolf: Perfect way to end a musical is to give them a song that no one's ever gonna stop singing ever.

[18:42] Roby Johnson: All the way to the car, to the bus, to the subway.

[18:45] Andrew DeWolf: Didn't that become like a pop hit in some fashion?

[18:48] Roby Johnson: I feel like it did.

[18:49] Andrew DeWolf: It was all over the place when the movie came out.

[18:51] Roby Johnson: Yeah.

[18:52] Andrew DeWolf: I think the movie, like the movie soundtrack got played on the radio and shit like that.

[18:56] Roby Johnson: This this song specifically, and I don't mean to go into the songs too much, but this is a trend breaker.

[19:02] Andrew DeWolf: Because almost every musical ends with a reprise of like the big number at the end.

[19:07] Roby Johnson: And this is the only one I can really think of in my head that's like a big new song in the as the last number that just keeps on going.

[19:14] Andrew DeWolf: And they're not afraid that it's hasn't been stuck in your head, because you know what?

[19:18] Roby Johnson: Fuck it.

[19:18] Andrew DeWolf: If we make it good enough, it'll be stuck in their head anyways.

[19:21] Roby Johnson: Yeah.

[19:22] Andrew DeWolf: It's just a it's a good way to end it because it I mean, as you said, it's uh kind of an ensemble piece.

[19:26] Roby Johnson: And this is the song where everybody comes out and just starts dancing.

[19:29] Andrew DeWolf: It's great.

[19:31] Roby Johnson: It's kind of like the ending of Mamma Mia.

[19:34] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[19:35] Roby Johnson: I mean, yeah, you know, I've never seen Mamma Mia, but yeah.

[19:38] Andrew DeWolf: Except they don't just come out singing Waterloo for no reason.

[19:40] Roby Johnson: You know, it's like Mamma Mia.

[19:44] Andrew DeWolf: Um, but they could have just as easily just made a good morning Baltimore reprise at the end.

[19:49] Roby Johnson: Like, and it probably still would have been an equally as good a show.

[19:52] Andrew DeWolf: But the fact that they took the risk on a big, broad, like final number with all these original pieces, and it just keeps stacking on top of each other with every single arc being resolved in this one big number.

[20:04] Roby Johnson: It is like such a weirdly like cathartic experience.

[20:08] Andrew DeWolf: Like in the movie, kind of reprise the good morning Baltimore like Rather in the last few stanzas.

[20:15] Roby Johnson: I think so, yeah.

[20:16] Andrew DeWolf: It's like unnecessary, but whatever.

[20:18] Roby Johnson: Yeah.

[20:19] Andrew DeWolf: I mean the movie kind of butchers some stuff.

[20:21] Roby Johnson: I mean I think it's I think it's time to talk about the movie.

[20:25] Andrew DeWolf: I guess we have to talk about the movie.

[20:27] Roby Johnson: Do we?

[20:28] Andrew DeWolf: So in 2007, they adapted the Broadway show into a movie.

[20:34] Roby Johnson: They put the Broadway show, they brought it up to the uh executioner, and they're like, adapt this for us.

[20:43] Andrew DeWolf: And they brought in Nikki Blonsky, who I think is actually a really good Tracy in the film.

[20:47] Roby Johnson: Um they brought Michelle Pfeiffer, Amanda Bynes before she was on a lot of alcohol, Zach Gaffron before he was the greatest showman, and a bunch of other folks, but most of all, Christopher Walken and John Travolta.

[21:01] Andrew DeWolf: The film was directed by Adam Schenkman, who really hasn't done much.

[21:05] Roby Johnson: He directed a few episodes of So You Think He Can Dance, and he directed another musical that everyone loves.

[21:16] Andrew DeWolf: Another wonderful movie translation.

[21:19] Roby Johnson: Yeah, perfect.

[21:20] Andrew DeWolf: Absolutely perfect.

[21:21] Roby Johnson: No fault faults whatsoever.

[21:23] Andrew DeWolf: Perfect.

[21:24] Roby Johnson: So what's wrong with the movie?

[21:26] Andrew DeWolf: Shall we start at the beginning?

[21:27] Roby Johnson: Yeah, let's go.

[21:28] Andrew DeWolf: Go for it.

[21:30] Roby Johnson: Well, I did like, you know, going around the city and and everything else and kind of making that happen.

[21:36] Andrew DeWolf: The the bit with the the mothers, the expectant mothers drinking and smoking in the bar.

[21:42] Roby Johnson: That was always that always made me laugh.

[21:44] Andrew DeWolf: Um John Waters cameo as the flasher.

[21:47] Roby Johnson: As a flasher was perfect.

[21:49] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[21:50] Roby Johnson: Um, but yeah, and the opening, I'm like, okay, great.

[21:54] Andrew DeWolf: Let's see what this movie's got.

[21:55] Roby Johnson: Nothing.

[21:56] Andrew DeWolf: Nothing at all.

[21:57] Roby Johnson: That was it.

[21:58] Andrew DeWolf: It should have just stopped.

[22:04] Roby Johnson: I think it does moments very well.

[22:07] Andrew DeWolf: I think it's not a confident movie.

[22:09] Roby Johnson: It is a director has no confidence in what it's doing.

[22:12] Andrew DeWolf: No, because I don't think the director knows what he's doing.

[22:17] Roby Johnson: I think it's just like he's got an idea of what it should be in his head, but he doesn't know how to project that to the actors, and the actors just do their thing.

[22:24] Andrew DeWolf: He's like, uh, good enough.

[22:26] Roby Johnson: Well, he didn't have confidence in the numbers itself that they could stand under their own.

[22:30] Andrew DeWolf: So he cuts to like all these fantasy sequences because he's like, I don't think this can work, or else people are gonna get bored.

[22:36] Roby Johnson: It's a movie, we gotta do everything bigger.

[22:38] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, that whole fantasy sequence with without love.

[22:42] Roby Johnson: No.

[22:43] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, no, it's so stupid.

[22:45] Roby Johnson: Yes.

[22:46] Andrew DeWolf: Um John Travolta's not good at all.

[22:48] Roby Johnson: No.

[22:48] Andrew DeWolf: Like not even a little bit.

[22:50] Roby Johnson: He doesn't.

[22:50] Andrew DeWolf: He sounds he sounds like a man in a dress.

[22:54] Roby Johnson: You know.

[22:54] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah Harvey Firestone's.

[22:56] Roby Johnson: Especially when singing.

[22:57] Andrew DeWolf: Especially when singing.

[22:58] Roby Johnson: Has that smoker's voice, which is works in any musical role he does, uh, whether he's male or female.

[23:05] Andrew DeWolf: Doesn't matter.

[23:06] Roby Johnson: It was the point.

[23:07] Andrew DeWolf: Divine was the exact same way.

[23:08] Roby Johnson: That's why it was so perfect.

[23:10] Andrew DeWolf: Um but John Travolta, his voice is too, and I I use this word loosely, pure to handle that.

[23:17] Roby Johnson: It just sounds like a man who's got his voice whip you know, Tracy.

[23:21] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, Tracy, you can't go out.

[23:23] Roby Johnson: You can't be doing this.

[23:24] Andrew DeWolf: We we're too large.

[23:26] Roby Johnson: Yeah, but then but then when he starts singing, he even loses that.

[23:30] Andrew DeWolf: Holy against my Scientology.

[23:33] Roby Johnson: He doesn't sing that often, but when when he does, it's like he just drops back to the normal John Travolta voice, and it's like, alright, I guess we're not even trying anymore.

[23:42] Andrew DeWolf: But it wasn't even and I thought, well, are they gonna try to do I mean I don't know what John Travolta's getting on in years, but surely he can possibly do John Travolta choreography?

[23:49] Roby Johnson: No.

[23:50] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, that would have impressed me a little bit, but no, no, none of that.

[23:54] Roby Johnson: Christopher Walken comes in and does the dad and I mean He's fine.

[23:58] Andrew DeWolf: I guess at the end it's just like who else would they have gotten?

[24:01] Roby Johnson: Martin Short, apparently.

[24:03] Andrew DeWolf: We'll get to that in a minute.

[24:05] Roby Johnson: Um, but I mean, Michelle Pfeiffer, she was in Greece too.

[24:11] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, that classic.

[24:13] Roby Johnson: And I'm trying to think of any other fantastic Tony Award winning musicals that she has done.

[24:19] Andrew DeWolf: Uh zero.

[24:20] Roby Johnson: Um, she auditioned for a Vita and her audition tape leaked, and she was very bad.

[24:26] Andrew DeWolf: Again, zero.

[24:28] Roby Johnson: Yet she is in this movie because she looks the parch, sort of, but she does not, no, doesn't do it.

[24:36] Andrew DeWolf: Can I say Oh, go ahead.

[24:38] Roby Johnson: Oh, I just wanted to say that Zach Ephron and James Marsden both knock it out in this movie.

[24:43] Andrew DeWolf: They're both very good in it.

[24:44] Roby Johnson: Yeah, James Marson, I think, did a very good job.

[24:46] Andrew DeWolf: Was that his real voice?

[24:47] Roby Johnson: Yes, that was his real voice.

[24:48] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, good for him.

[24:50] Roby Johnson: Because he also used his voice in Enchanted 2.

[24:52] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, okay.

[24:53] Roby Johnson: Uh Zach Efron, he was just the hot singer at the time.

[24:58] Andrew DeWolf: Whoever the hot singer would have been at the time, that's who they would have cast.

[25:01] Roby Johnson: It just happened to be Zach Efron, right place, right time with him.

[25:04] Andrew DeWolf: But Zach Ephron is a better actor than most hot singers, is where I sit.

[25:10] Roby Johnson: Now back then he's still learning.

[25:14] Andrew DeWolf: Back then he was still learning.

[25:15] Roby Johnson: He was kind of just pretending to be Elvis.

[25:17] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, he really was.

[25:19] Roby Johnson: Uh but who else was in there that was terrible?

[25:23] Andrew DeWolf: Queen Latifah was fine.

[25:25] Roby Johnson: Oh no, she she made she made up for a lot of stuff.

[25:28] Andrew DeWolf: When they got to uh um I know where I've been, I was like, okay, now we've made up for some stuff.

[25:34] Roby Johnson: Thank you.

[25:35] Andrew DeWolf: Allison Janny is a standout in it.

[25:37] Roby Johnson: She doesn't sing much, but when she's on screen, I'm just happy.

[25:40] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, she doesn't have to sing.

[25:42] Roby Johnson: She's just yeah, she does that role really well.

[25:45] Andrew DeWolf: They did they did add in some bad scenes though, just to you know, really well.

[25:50] Roby Johnson: Yeah, well what about like uh when Christopher Walken is getting like seduced.

[25:55] Andrew DeWolf: Oh that whole entire thing.

[25:59] Roby Johnson: And then we need a breakup scene.

[26:02] Andrew DeWolf: They resolve it like instantly, too.

[26:04] Roby Johnson: It's like the next scene, it's resolved.

[26:06] Andrew DeWolf: It's like, why did we even do that?

[26:08] Roby Johnson: It felt like the director didn't believe you could have a romance number without like with you couldn't have it's timeless for me without something prompting it, is kind of it.

[26:17] Andrew DeWolf: Which your timeless to me is so kind of wholesome because there isn't anything prompting it, really.

[26:21] Roby Johnson: Right.

[26:22] Andrew DeWolf: It's not because uh baby called me cheating, let me get back to you.

[26:25] Roby Johnson: You're wonderful.

[26:26] Andrew DeWolf: Well I mean I mean, the original story is that he spent all the money bailing everybody out of jail, and she was upset by that, and that's what prompts the song, isn't it, in the original?

[26:38] Roby Johnson: Yeah, basically.

[26:39] Andrew DeWolf: And she's more like, you're helping people, and Tracy's doing great things, and I'm the one that's lame.

[26:46] Roby Johnson: And he's like, No, you're great.

[26:47] Andrew DeWolf: You're wonderful.

[26:49] Roby Johnson: Yeah.

[26:49] Andrew DeWolf: Can what can I talk about something that I just read about right here?

[26:53] Roby Johnson: And I want to get your guys' response to it.

[26:56] Andrew DeWolf: Okay.

[26:58] Roby Johnson: Due to hairspray's financial success, Newline Cinema asked John Waters to write a sequel to the film.

[27:04] Andrew DeWolf: Waters reunited with director choreographer Adam Shankman for the project, and songwriters Mark Shaman and Scott Whitman were set to compose the film's musical number.

[27:13] Roby Johnson: The story would have looked at Tracy's entering the 1960s era of music with the British invasion and used the hippie movement and the Vietnam War as backdrops.

[27:21] Andrew DeWolf: While no official official casting was announced, Newline said that they hoped to snag much of the original hairspray cast.

[27:27] Roby Johnson: John Travolta, however, publicly announced that he would not return because he's not a big sequel guy.

[27:32] Andrew DeWolf: The sequel is set for a mid-July 2010 release by Warner Brothers.

[27:36] Roby Johnson: Um however in June 2010, Shankman told British press that Hairspray 2 white lipstick was no longer in development.

[27:43] Andrew DeWolf: Shankman also said that there will be no sequel.

[27:45] Roby Johnson: In February 2009, John Waters announced he had written a sequel for HBO, but did not produce it.

[27:51] Andrew DeWolf: Why?

[27:52] Roby Johnson: White lipstick?

[27:53] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, hairspray to white lipstick.

[27:56] Roby Johnson: Because all the racial stuff and everything that was positively done about that, just you know, whatever you want to say about it.

[28:02] Andrew DeWolf: Let's just erase that and call this white lipstick.

[28:05] Roby Johnson: Why not just call it white people?

[28:08] Andrew DeWolf: Hairspray too, white people.

[28:10] Roby Johnson: Yeah, back to whites.

[28:11] Andrew DeWolf: Back to the whites.

[28:12] Roby Johnson: Hairspray too, the British are doing it now, so whatever.

[28:15] Andrew DeWolf: They're the nicest kids in town.

[28:17] Roby Johnson: Yeah.

[28:18] Andrew DeWolf: No.

[28:19] Roby Johnson: I'm glad it fell down the toilet because that's where it belongs.

[28:22] Andrew DeWolf: How about that ending where they they turn the whole ending into a heist?

[28:26] Roby Johnson: Oh god.

[28:27] Andrew DeWolf: They're like, oh, we gotta sneak her into the they sneak her into the studio and then she just kind of appears.

[28:35] Roby Johnson: Hi, I'm here to save the day and end racism.

[28:38] Andrew DeWolf: Let's go.

[28:40] Andrew DeWolf: No, nobody's ever heard of security.

[28:42] Roby Johnson: Nope.

[28:42] Andrew DeWolf: And also this this racist town just votes the black girl, yeah. Like, okay, weren't we just saying that there's all this racism? But I guess there's not. It's just the police are racist. Nobody else is.

[28:55] Roby Johnson: Well, my guess is there's just a couple bad apples.

[29:01] Andrew DeWolf: Yep. Yeah. My guess is that I'm sure that if you look at it, if you want to look at it realistically, um, since there were just white kids participating in that, only the white audience voted. And then since they had a black contestant, the black audience saw that and then voted. And there's probably more of them than there are of the whites, hence winner. That's how Biden won the primaries too.

[29:24] Roby Johnson: Is that how? Yeah.

[29:26] Andrew DeWolf: Um, let's keep moving on. Also, what was with Thelma cheating, but like it didn't work?

[29:32] Roby Johnson: Yeah, she likes to. So I guess my other theory is maybe they just they cheated. Like they counter cheated to counter the cheating that the other person was. I don't know. It was so convoluted and it had to be a good thing. The DNC had to get involved too.

[29:53] Andrew DeWolf: Maybe somebody just took their Dungeons and Dragons dice and just went, uh what's going on there?

[29:59] Roby Johnson: There. Alright, yeah. Every every line of the script is just like, and next uh 15. Okay, so we're gonna do that. And then uh 12. Okay, well, scratch that one. Alright. Alright, we're gonna hide Tracy in the barrel, and then the barrel will get used as a battering ram by the police, and they'll bring her inside. We're all 10 for initiative. Even though Christopher Walken gets caught by the police and just walks in the door.

[30:29] Andrew DeWolf: Alright, enough about the movie. Robbie, we need to talk about that live show they did a couple years ago.

[30:35] Roby Johnson: Do we have to? I didn't watch that.

[30:36] Andrew DeWolf: Just briefly. We need to touch upon this. You are you have lived a very classy life because you avoided that.

[30:44] Roby Johnson: Please continue to do so. So is avoiding that garbage. Is this somehow worse than the movie? Is that what we're trying to say?

[30:50] Andrew DeWolf: Um, yes, actually. In a way, yes. Yes.

[30:53] Roby Johnson: Um, because they were trying to capture a live to you know, live to tape feel, but it didn't work because A, they kept interrupting it with commercials.

[31:07] Andrew DeWolf: Hi, I'm Darren Chris, and you like Oreos? Let's get some Oreos.

[31:10] Roby Johnson: Right. And I'm like, I understand you gotta throw in commercials here, but you don't need Darren Chris to talk about it. Nor and that whole being outside for the Broadway or for the Baltimore scene. I'm like, it's not nighttime. It's good morning, Baltimore.

[31:26] Andrew DeWolf: Maybe it was just really early morning, like she woke up at 4:45 a.m. to go to school, yeah.

[31:35] Roby Johnson: It was just so now it worked for uh Welcome to the 60s, so I just wish they kept it there, but I don't know. Chris and Chenwith has got to stop it with the facelifts.

[31:44] Andrew DeWolf: If she I mean that might be the gayest thing ever said on this podcast, and that's a lot. She is going further and further back. Her mouth is gonna wrap all the way around, she's gonna be able to tie the bow in the back of her head.

[31:58] Roby Johnson: Now I saw her in American Gods, and I was like, okay, well, it works here, but maybe it was supposed to work for that character. Maybe she's just so far gone that she's had so many facelifts, she's supposed to look like that. I don't know.

[32:09] Andrew DeWolf: Um yeah, that would make sense. Uh but and then Garrett Clayton as as Link. Well, again, he's the hot, young, whatever. I thought Zach Efran brought more to it than he did.

[32:22] Roby Johnson: Yeah, because uh I mean, Garrett's not really a I mean, is he a singer? I have no idea. He he sang fine. What do you think of Grizabella as Motormouth?

[32:32] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, she was fine. I mean, it's hard to mess up that role unless you have a bad voice.

[32:36] Roby Johnson: Right. Right. If you can bring it voice-wise, you can nail it. You can be skinny, you can be fat, I guess it doesn't matter.

[32:43] Andrew DeWolf: Here's my biggest problem with that that movie. Ariana Grande.

[32:48] Roby Johnson: I forgot she was in that, yeah.

[32:49] Andrew DeWolf: What the hell were they thinking? She's supposed to be the whitest, whiter than white of everybody in that whole show. That's the point of her character. And she Ariana Grande is not. She is like Mocha Frappuccino something. Or is that just spray tan? I don't know what it is.

[33:08] Roby Johnson: But then when she comes out, she goes, I know checkerboard chick, honey. You've been a checkerboard chick this whole time.

[33:16] Andrew DeWolf: That character of Penny always bothers me in this. Like, she's thought as like Pete the girls idolize her because it's the one role that the pretty girl can play in the show.

[33:25] Roby Johnson: I thought that was Amber's role.

[33:27] Andrew DeWolf: No, I mean like the one with actual songs they want to sing.

[33:31] Roby Johnson: Oh.

[33:31] Andrew DeWolf: What no one wants to sing cooties?

[33:33] Roby Johnson: Nobody likes cooties. Cooties might be one of the worst songs in the show. The only thing that I did enjoy about that was I'm a big girl now because that was left out of the movie.

[33:43] Roby Johnson: Big mistake. Because that's a great song, and every teenage girl ever, I'm sure has thought those thoughts at one way. And it's it delved in everybody. The shut in, the fat girl, and the pretty girl. All of them got got their moment. And it's kind of written as if for a film, too. Like I can see the editing in my head for that. They edited it like shit in the live show.

[34:06] Andrew DeWolf: Well, I mean, how why would you need editing in the live show? It's supposed to be a live show. Can I can I say something really I wanna like before we go into the mid-show and talk about the songs? I want to send some love to the to a friend of mine who is the one that runs the switchboard for every one of those musical live shows. I didn't realize what they had to do to make sure it worked, and she's like more than uh above most film editors, because we've seen the Phantom of the Opera movie and how they don't know how to edit. They don't know how to edit to a beat.

[34:36] Roby Johnson: So sh I see footage of her watching like the Jesus Christ Superstar and the Hairspray one. She has the sheet conductor's book and she's conducting along with it and then cueing the sweatshirt so that they're on the beat every time. And I'm like, holy shit, how do you keep your mind in like all those 40 places at once?

[34:54] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. So I just wanted to give a shout out to her.

[34:56] Roby Johnson: Yeah. I I've seen that before. San Francisco Symphony did a whole video series, and that's how they edited it together with changing beats and changing uh cuts with the beats of the music and everything else, so I can't imagine that either. Like, I I can either keep my head in one side or the other, not both.

[35:13] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. So yeah, good good for them, but God, I just yeah, Harvey Fire Steams, good to see him back. I think your timeless to me was done really well. That was a fun version of that number, unlike the movie.

[35:27] Roby Johnson: Martin Short, whatever. He can sing. He could hit the notes unlike Christopher Walken.

[35:33] Andrew DeWolf: Ugh Well, I mean, just and and everybody else, unfortunately, other than I'm trying to think of all the Tracy's that in that have played this role throughout time. How many of them are actually continuing acting to a point where people know them?

[35:48] Roby Johnson: Ricky Lake, okay, but she had her own talk show. Big deal. Um, everybody else, I mean Marissa from the original, she was in Scary Movie Two or Scary Movie One as the Fat Girl.

[35:59] Andrew DeWolf: Oh no.

[36:00] Roby Johnson: Yeah. You don't remember that? The girl got crushed by the that was her.

[36:04] Andrew DeWolf: Oh god. Um Nikki Blonsky for the movie um played a couple roles. She was in a TV show called Huge, where she's a fat girl. She was in Smash as the fat girl. I mean, the whole thing, and I remember when the movie came out, they were always uh everybody was just going on about how fat girls need this and need that and deserve, you know, the roles of this, that, and the other all the time too. And I'm like, yes, they do, but you're not giving them to them. It didn't work, honey. Currently, as of 2011, Nikki Blonsky is working as a cosmetologist in Great Neck, New York.

[36:37] Andrew DeWolf: Because that's what fat girls do.

[36:38] Roby Johnson: Well, let's go into a mid-show announcement.

[36:45] Jess McInally: Hey, we didn't see you there. We're gonna show it you. Um our show is brought to you by our extremely kind donations by our donors over at Patreon. Our current donors are Stephanie L. Terry Needleman, Max Lunig, Benjamin Lear, Lily Eccles, Mackenzie Horner, John Donna, Terran the Duck, The Fantastic Just Lightning, Ewan Casty, Haley McDonald, Tuskir, Fire September, Mina Mani, Monica Thoreau, Brent Black, Haley Murray, Allison Wonderland, B-Way Flicks, Nathaniel Stacy Coombe, Joseph Evans Green, Lunarocks 222, Ira Gael, Dre White, Harry Ahern, Christine Malmadel, Ben Packard, Mezzanine Theater Diary, Mary Lou Choquette, Ann Nunnelly, Cole Birchfield, Sam Caulfield, John Van Ales, Holly Stickley, Russ Walker.

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[37:43] Jess McInally: Alright, let's get back to the show.

[37:46] ♪ Musical number: "Good Morning Baltimore" — performed by Jess McInally ♪

[38:24] Roby Johnson: Good morning, Baltimore is a fucking great opening number.

[38:27] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, absolutely. Very, very good.

[38:29] Roby Johnson: Absolutely. Like it sums up the character like before she even sings a note. Like, even even with her first note, you get who this person is. You get the style, you get you and you get everything about what Baltimore is.

[38:43] Andrew DeWolf: Mm-hmm. It's it in it shows that you don't need the big like everyone in the ensemble gets out and says, Welcome to Wonderland or whatever.

[38:51] Roby Johnson: Yeah. So uh why does this take place in Baltimore?

[38:56] Andrew DeWolf: What was that, Andrew? Why does this take place in Baltimore? Is there an actual reason?

[38:59] Roby Johnson: That's where John Waters is from.

[39:00] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, that's where John Waters is.

[39:01] Roby Johnson: Oh, is that actually all pretty much all his movies take place in Baltimore?

[39:07] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, that is his his thing. It's a shtick.

[39:12] Roby Johnson: And this is his like kids' movie that he makes.

[39:14] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. I am surprised at the legs that the show has had, like as a film adaptation. Like, as far as movies that become musicals, this doesn't feel like a greedy corporate one.

[39:25] Roby Johnson: No.

[39:25] Andrew DeWolf: And from these first notes of Good Morning Baltimore, you feel like, oh no, this is trying to do a thing, not just be weird for the sake of weird or be a a shill in an adaptation.

[39:35] Roby Johnson: Like Shrek the musical.

[39:37] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. This is much better than Shrek the Musical is what we're trying to say.

[39:41] Roby Johnson: I mean, yes, but I still like Shrek the musical.

[39:44] Andrew DeWolf: This is better though.

[39:46] Roby Johnson: Once I used to pitch it, cuz I just sat home. But now I'm just like itchy, and I gotta get to Rome.

[39:53] Andrew DeWolf: So say a rib at shit.

[39:59] Roby Johnson: Oh stop. Don't know. Please stop.

[40:04] Andrew DeWolf: Don't know. Please stop.

[40:06] Roby Johnson: Don't know. Please, Mama, I'm a big girl now.

[40:12] Andrew DeWolf: Hey, Mama. So I've got a question for you guys, just generally. What is the I Want song in this? Is it Mama I'm a Big Girl now or I Can Hear the Bells?

[40:20] Roby Johnson: I thought it was Good Morning Baltimore.

[40:22] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I think it's a good one.

[40:22] Roby Johnson: No, that's something I thought Good Morning Baltimore too. What do you learn about Tracy and what she wants from that?

[40:29] Andrew DeWolf: She wants to uh fit in with everybody else and be a dancer. She says it there at the end.

[40:33] Roby Johnson: I I don't feel that. I feel like something that states like more what her essential needs are, what's her obstacles are either Mom I'm a Big Girl now or I can hear the bells.

[40:43] Andrew DeWolf: Well, I can hear the bells is the uh I want Link's dong song.

[40:48] Roby Johnson: Yeah. Uh so every musical. You gotta have the dog song. So uh I'm hoping it's not that one. And if that was what they meant for it to be, uh no. So I guess then it has to be Mama I'm a big girl now, but that's more like a generational gap song, like Mom, you're no Us now, not you anymore.

[41:13] Andrew DeWolf: Well, it also gives them each what they want. Um, Amber wants to fuck with teenage boys.

[41:17] Roby Johnson: Yeah.

[41:18] Andrew DeWolf: That's her dong song. Um Tracy wants to go Trace dance. Yeah. And literally, um Prudy or what the fuck is her name? Penny just really just wants to get away from her horrible abusive mother.

[41:31] Roby Johnson: Penny doesn't want to get tied to the bed anymore.

[41:34] Andrew DeWolf: Uh unless Seaweed wants to do it.

[41:36] Roby Johnson: Yeah. She wants to get tied to the bed by someone else.

[41:39] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[41:40] Roby Johnson: Yes. She yeah, by her jungle figure boyfriend.

[41:43] Andrew DeWolf: Oh no.

[41:45] Roby Johnson: No.

[41:49] Andrew DeWolf: It's the 60s.

[41:51] Roby Johnson: Yes. Aren't y'all from the Michigan?

[41:53] Andrew DeWolf: I'm from the Michigan.

[41:54] Roby Johnson: He's from the Progressive New York.

[41:56] Andrew DeWolf: Oh. Well, I figured the people in Michigan residents.

[42:00] Roby Johnson: They get down with the swirl.

[42:02] Andrew DeWolf: My god. Alright, we gotta move on.

[42:06] Roby Johnson: Do we? Child who dreams for me. What cracked when that time certainly 10 bolts don't mind friggin' out! But the crowns in the vault from when I want Miss Baltimore Crowns. Those Corana ups may still hold some garages. They pat in their cups, but I screw the judges. Those rods felt they'd win in a plate they would spin in their dines. Not a chance, because I hit the stage, but tons a place.

[42:42] Roby Johnson: Well take me. Let's talk about Miss Baltimore Crabs as a villain song.

[42:47] Andrew DeWolf: Okay.

[42:47] Roby Johnson: Like great how opinion.

[42:50] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, you don't like it.

[42:51] Roby Johnson: Oh, I love it. I think it's great. I think it's the perfect villain song. It sums her character up beautifully. Everything that she stands for just comes right out in there.

[43:00] Roby Johnson: At first I thought it was a joke, but I looked it up, and that's actually a thing in Baltimore. It's a beauty pageant, and that's the title you get. And I was like, that is hilarious. It's not just the title you get. It's not just the title. It's the STD you get too. Yeah. So I'm just like, that is wonderful. And it's just on so many levels, because you can interpret it as, yeah, she fucked everybody, she got crabs. But she's literally Baltimore Crabs because that's the title you get when you do that beauty pageant. And you know, she talks about cheating the system to get what she wants and everything else. So I think it's perfect. It's so weird to have a it's like a tango, isn't it?

[43:42] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[43:44] Roby Johnson: It's such a G rated, so to say, Broadway musical, like a family musical that has a song about openly fucking men and getting an STD.

[43:52] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. Pretty much.

[43:54] Roby Johnson: They snuck it in under the wire. I mean, I didn't know that the Baltimore Crabs is the actual name that they gave, so I just thought that that's actually what they meant by the song. Is yeah, she's Miss Baltimore with crabs. If you take it literally, that's exactly what it means. Why would you call your Miss Baltimore pageant that? Baltimore is a different planet than the rest of us. The town is known for crabs. Aliens come from there, like John Waters and Divine. Honestly. They eat dog shit right out the bunghole. It's true. And apparently. Um, but yeah, I mean, it's just like those crab shacks or anything else, you know, they're always I mean, what was that you know, I mean, if I owned a crab shack, I would I would post it everywhere.

It's like we have crabs. Our crabs are the best. If you come here, you will get crabs. I got crabs from Robbie's crab shack. That's right. And I would eat that of every I would just put it everywhere. Just like that butt drugs place.

[44:58] Jess McInally: Oh, you'd want to get a shirt.

[44:59] Roby Johnson: You want to get a shirt that says like I got crabs from Robbie or some sh That's right. Robbie gave me crabs. I love it. That's one of the best songs in the thing. I think it's great too. Andrew, why don't you like it? You fucking hater.

[45:15] Andrew DeWolf: I don't dislike it. It's just I don't really like the Velma character at all.

[45:19] Roby Johnson: Uh well, of course not. You're not supposed to.

[45:20] Andrew DeWolf: I know, but I don't even like like to dislike her. It's just she I just don't like her. Cause usually with a villain, you'd want to like enjoy hating them. Whereas with this, it's just I I just think she's awful. I feel like if she had more of a comeuppance in the end, you'd hate her less.

[45:38] Roby Johnson: Yes. Probably. It's just she kind of doesn't get punished.

[45:41] Andrew DeWolf: No. She doesn't really change her ways either. She's just like, I guess I have to let them do this since everyone is telling me to stop, so I have to.

[46:02] Roby Johnson: In my ivory tower, life was just a hostess snack. But now I've changed your chopling. Life is like a beat that you can't follow. Without love. Life is dark at the Apollo dog, and I'll be out forever.

[46:31] Jess McInally: Um, let's skip to act two to without love.

[46:34] Roby Johnson: Without love. I love that song. I crank it up and blast it out of my car speakers and scream my vocal cords out. Trying to sing that song.

[46:44] Andrew DeWolf: It's fun.

[46:45] Roby Johnson: I do too. Like this song is like the most it's the cheesiest song in the show by far. Like, it is ridiculous and like it almost feels like the highest high point of it. There's a lot of competition for that as well.

[46:58] Andrew DeWolf: I know, but it feels like the high point in act two, it's like, well, we just had the great song, like I guess just gotta wait for it's over. Then you can't stop the beat just comes in and it's like, ah, we snuck in one.

[47:08] Roby Johnson: Well, does um what's the 11 o'clock song of this musical?

[47:13] Andrew DeWolf: I think that like you can't stop the beat is like the 11, 12, and 13 o'clock number.

[47:18] Roby Johnson: Really?

[47:18] Andrew DeWolf: No, it's actually cooties.

[47:20] Roby Johnson: Yeah, technically the cooties is, yes, but my god, nobody likes that song.

[47:20] Andrew DeWolf: Nobody likes that song.

[47:26] Roby Johnson: Well, we uh I'm trying to remember, it's been a long time since I've seen the the Broadway show. I saw it locally here not too long ago. But when when was in the order of things, uh I know where I've been. It's after um it's after Without Love, but before Cooties and You Can't Stop the Beat and it's Hair Spray. I think that is your 11 o'clock song.

[47:46] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, yeah, it is the memory one, but it's Cooties, I think it's just your I don't know, just a I mean, because that song lasts like what, a minute and a half or so? Like a minute. Not very long.

[47:56] Roby Johnson: Yeah. It's just uh it's just a reminder that we hate that person. It's your second villain song.

[48:02] Andrew DeWolf: Well, no, because uh Velma had a repry, so it's our third villain song.

[48:06] Roby Johnson: Oh yeah. Cut Cooties is what I'm telling y'all. Yeah. It kind of doesn't have to be there. That's the one good thing about the movie.

[48:13] Andrew DeWolf: It cut cooties.

[48:14] Roby Johnson: Yeah, it did. Um kind of ruined the ending in other ways, though, so yeah, definitely. So let's talk about You Can't Stop the Beat. We didn't talk about any of Corney's songs, and he's he's so great.

[48:27] Jess McInally: Corny.

[48:27] Roby Johnson: I feel like all of his songs are basically the same song, but I'm always happy when they're happening. I'd want to play Corney if I could be in the show, but I know I can't.

[48:35] Andrew DeWolf: Well, he's the one that kinda saves the day at the end, honestly.

[48:38] Roby Johnson: Yeah. He's the actual hero. He saves the day through the whole thing. Or I could be Wilbur. I could easily do his character. Although he needs more he doesn't have enough songs for my taste.

[48:50] Andrew DeWolf: I want to play Mr. Pinky, um, the guy that sells the clothes during Welcome to the Sixties. That's my dream role.

[48:54] Roby Johnson: Does he even sing in that song?

[48:57] Andrew DeWolf: Nope!

[48:59] Roby Johnson: And that's probably the best for me. Don't don't make me sing. Yeah, his role kind of doesn't go anywhere either. Like they just yeah, that's it.

[49:06] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. That's why they put Sean Hayes in there, because he doesn't go anywhere either.

[49:11] Roby Johnson: I like in the movie, it's uh it's it's George Costanza's dad, right?

[49:15] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, and George Costanza's dad played Wilbur in the original Edies movie.

[49:20] Roby Johnson: Yes. Holy crap. Andrew has never been less impressed by a fun fact.

[49:33] Roby Johnson: Well what about let's talk about how many people have played Edna on stage. I know Michael Ball scene.

[49:42] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, and he's about to do it again.

[49:44] Roby Johnson: Oh, because they're reviving it in Britain.

[49:46] Andrew DeWolf: Right. Great. And I was like, oh well, he's gonna do it again. But uh Norm from Cheers, whatever his real name is. Um and there was somebody else that that threw me for a loop that was like, really? Wow, okay. Now I can't remember who it is. Um yeah, a lot of a lot of character actors.

[50:04] Roby Johnson: Michael McKean.

[50:05] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, that was it. That was the one. I couldn't believe that.

[50:09] Roby Johnson: Yeah. Ridiculous. Um I don't know. That's a good role.

[50:14] Andrew DeWolf: It is a good fun role. I think Andrew should play Edna.

[50:18] Roby Johnson: I could pull it up. You can't stop my happiness because I like the way I am. And you doesn't stop my nice and folks when I see a Christmas hell. So if you don't like the way I look well. I just don't give a damn.

[50:35] Roby Johnson: But the world keeps me.

[50:56] Jess McInally: Hey. Alright, you can't stop the beat. We gotta we gotta go.

[51:03] Roby Johnson: Okay, you can't stop the beat is uh awesome. And everyone sings and everyone dances, and it's like wow, cool, everyone's dancing and singing.

[51:10] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. I like that.

[51:12] Roby Johnson: So happy that it's a musical. Like, yeah, let's go. Everyone resolve all the plot lines. Let's go! Because it's like you're supposed to get the big num it's almost like they put the big huge numbers at the end of act one, but this one didn't. It's like, no, we're gonna do it at the end of act two.

[51:26] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, it's like you you wanna you wanna see the big number? You stay to the end.

[51:30] Roby Johnson: Yeah. Yeah, and the people that walked in in the intermission, which they used to do a lot, not so much anymore, where people sneak in during intermission. I don't think they allow that anymore.

[51:39] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, who's gonna who's gonna catch you?

[51:43] Roby Johnson: Um, I don't know. Those New York users are pretty brutal. Yeah, they'll beat you with a fucking stick. If you're not in your seat by eight o'clock, they will they will force you onto that seat, even if it's in someone else's lap. Sir, find your seat. Sir, you need to find your seat, sir.

[52:00] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know. And every touring show I've seen recently, like the people in front of us have left during intermission and not just and just not come back.

[52:06] Roby Johnson: Oh, well, that's just to me. Come on.

[52:10] Andrew DeWolf: But I mean in New York, I mean, hell, I went to lunch someplace and they were like, it was like one o'clock. Are you gonna see a two o'clock show? I'm like, no, but does that make me get a seat faster if I was? Apparently the answer is yes.

[52:23] Roby Johnson: Yeah. Just you should just always answer yes, then. I'm seeing two of them. Absolutely. I'm going to the two o'clock showing a Mamma Mia. Give me the seat. I need a seat right now. Right now, I need it. I can't I can't miss honey honey.

[52:36] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, it won't work anymore with Broadway being closed, but

[52:36] Roby Johnson: Yeah. And restaurants being closed.

[52:42] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, and restaurants as well. Pretty much all of New York is being closed.

[52:44] Roby Johnson: Yeah, it's a ghost town. Well, I hear the hospitals are still open.

[52:52] Jess McInally: On that note, guys, what is your overall thoughts on Hairspray and your cheese ratings? Do I go first?

[53:00] Roby Johnson: Sure, go for it.

[53:01] Jess McInally: Okay. The Hairspray show is fantastic, and the movie is not. So watch the show if you can. I guess the movies honestly, the movie compared to other adaptations isn't that bad, but it's still not good. So uh cheese rating. I I don't even know. I'm gonna I'm gonna give it sharp cheddar because that's what I give good things. I always give good things sharp cheddar.

[53:23] Roby Johnson: Alright, Robbie, what your thoughts.

[53:26] Roby Johnson: Oh, well, um, I have to agree. The original Broadway, fantastic. Uh, although, you know, it's pretty much gone, and I don't think there's ever gonna be a chance you're gonna get to see it in any video form anytime soon. Uh movie versions, live NBC versions, stay as far away from them as possible. You will it'll ruin you forever. Uh the Hollywood Bowl version might be worth a watch if they can find that somewhere. The new uh UK version might be okay uh if they can ever get it out. So as far as cheese goes, I'll have to go one extra step and go extra sharp because it is delicious. It really is kind of but there are some parts of it that's just kind of uh uh I don't know about that. What was I thinking? But anyway.

[54:11] Jess McInally: Well, I think Hairspray is a lot of fun. Um I I didn't like it when I first like got introduced to it, like when I was first doing the rounds on Broadway, just because it didn't think it was my thing, because I was an edgy, edgy youngster, and now I'm like, you know what? I need happiness in my life, bring bring it in. I need I need a feel good.

[54:27] Roby Johnson: Jess just with like a big Jekyll and Hyde kind of guy.

[54:30] Jess McInally: He was just Oh god. He he was like seeing that eight times, and he's like, oh yeah, that's who I am. That's what I'm talking about. I'm what you face when he faces the mirror. What is this? Is this death?

[54:49] Roby Johnson: So I think it's great. And you all, if you haven't checked it out, what the fuck is wrong with you? Of course you checked it out. Um so I am giving it fresh mozzarella from Cheeses Galore and more in downtown Baltimore.

[55:02] Roby Johnson: Very cute.

[55:03] Jess McInally: Baltimore and galore. I get it. Um, Robbie, is there anything else you want to promote out there for the world so people can find you?

[55:10] Roby Johnson: Um, I don't know if this quarantine shit goes on much longer. I might have to actually start something up just to give me something to do. I mean, I I still miss the absent commentator a lot. Yeah, I've been trying to think of a way to revive it, but I just don't see how that's physically possible.

[55:26] Jess McInally: Why not? Come on.

[55:27] Roby Johnson: Or I should say fiscally possible. Well, first of all, my laptop is on its last leg, and I can't afford to get a new one until I get my car paid off, which won't be for a few months. So maybe if I get a new laptop, maybe things will work out and I can bring it out of retirement.

[55:44] Jess McInally: I hope one day you'll at least repost your Heather's review, because that I think I have like a small cameo in that, but overall that's just one of my favorite YouTube review videos.

[55:53] Roby Johnson: Man, do you? I think you do. I don't remember. I tended to pop up in your videos every now and then.

[55:57] Jess McInally: I know. Well, if I do it again, you're my you need to play a bigger role or something. Just uh I name I need more Jess.

[56:04] Roby Johnson: Heads up, JD. I'm a dead girl walking.

[56:10] Jess McInally: Do you know who isn't a dead girl walking? Our wonderful patrons. Thank you guys for listening please follow us on iTunes Spotify Stitcher at musicals with cheese our Twitter is at cheesy musicals our Patreon is musicals with cheese our YouTube page is musicals with cheese our Instagram pages musicals with cheese our email is musical theater lives at gmail.com send us some love there our title card was created by the amazing Jolene Casco follower on Instagram at Jolene Casco andrew is there anything else you want to promote do you have an ep or anything going on during this dark dark period to be honest I I really don't uh but I'm on I'm on Twitter at uh hey doctor and I'm on uh instagram at hey doctor as well so go send him some love he doesn't have enough followers I also don't post anything so to he tweets like once every 50 years it's always a classic though he's a 100 out of 100 kind of guy all right guys this is a lot of fun thank you guys for coming on in I appreciate it oh no problem any time all right we'll see you next time on musicals with cheese.