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[0:00] Andrew DeWolf: Hold on, I have a fan on. Oh, shut that off. Gotta make sure this is recorded. You know who turned on those fans? Those goddamn people from Patreon. Andrew, what's Patreon?

[0:09] Jess McInally: Patreon is uh where people who turn on fans go.

[0:13] Andrew DeWolf: Actually, Patreon is where all of our biggest fans go.

[0:17] Jess McInally: Uh yes. Well, our biggest fans. We have some big fans that aren't on Patreon, but they don't have the means.

[0:26] Andrew DeWolf: Or the love.

[0:27] Jess McInally: Love equals money.

[0:29] Andrew DeWolf: Welcome to our society. Capitalism. Love equals money.

[0:32] Jess McInally: Yep. Um, okay. No, but we have uh a Glee podcast currently running weekly. I think we're still weekly.

[0:40] Andrew DeWolf: Umce a week, yeah. We haven't messed that up yet.

[0:43] Jess McInally: We have uh some commentaries. We will make some new commentaries sometime soon, but we have some older ones up still. Um all of them I got some ideas, so they're gonna be fun. Oh, there's gonna be some. Don't worry.

[0:54] Andrew DeWolf: Uh we've got all the Annie the Annie back catalog uh from January. Uh January. Our current patrons are Terry Needleman, Max Lunig, Benjamin Learer, Lily Accles, John Donna, Terran the Duck, the Fantastic Just Lightning, Ewan Cassidy, Haley McDonald, Tess Skier, Fire of September, Mina Mani, Monica Thoreau, Brent Black, Haley Murray, Alice in Wonderland, B-Way Flicks, Lathaniel Stacey Coombe, Joseph Evans Green, Lunarocks 222, Erigale, Drew A, Whiter, Carrie Ahern, Christine Malmadale, Mezzanine Theatre Diary, Mary Lou Choquette, Anne Nunnale, Cole Birchfield, Sam Caulfield, John Vanels, Holy Stacity, Russ Walker, Musical Hell, Emily Grace, Andrew Ben Barsen, Emily Stack, Kyle Summers, Mr. B, Janae C, Kyle, Christina, Francis, Jessica A, Skylar, Liz Lim, Corey Wilmarth, and Alison Staller.

[1:49] Jess McInally: These folks give us a little extra financial support that helps us keep the lights on here at Musicals with Cheese. If you'd like to join them in helping us and keep the lights on here, um, just come join us over at Patreon. There's a lot of fun stuff, such as patron only commentaries, our episodes a day earlier or even earlier, our full Glee podcast. Just come on over there. There's so much fun things to do.

[2:07] Andrew DeWolf: Alright, Andrew, you ready to get into this?

[2:09] Jess McInally: You know what? I have one question for our fans before we start this episode.

[2:13] Andrew DeWolf: Okay.

[2:13] Jess McInally: Do you guys want merch or anything? I feel like we should be selling t-shirts or something like that.

[2:18] Andrew DeWolf: Can we get like I feel like that too, but also like rent that's selling out?

[2:25] Jess McInally: I don't care. I want to wear a t-shirt with Musicals with Cheese on, and I'd wear that around.

[2:30] Andrew DeWolf: Alright, Andrew, you're in charge of that if they're interested. If you guys are interested, let me know at Hey Doctor on Twitter, and I will get the merch going.

[2:39] Andrew DeWolf: Don't tell me a damn thing. I don't want to be involved.

[2:41] Jess McInally: Just doesn't care. Alright, let's get on to the show. Hello, I'm Jess McInally.

[2:49] Andrew DeWolf: And I am Andrew DeWolf.

[2:52] Jess McInally: And welcome to Musicals with Cheese, a podcast where I try to get Andrew to like musical theater. How are you doing today, Andrew?

[2:56] Andrew DeWolf: I am doing quite well.

[3:00] Jess McInally: Well, that's good. As good as I can be doing, actually.

[3:03] Andrew DeWolf: Oh no, what's wrong?

[3:05] Jess McInally: Well, I just found out recently that when I was a baby boy, um, my dad threw me off a train into a river.

[3:12] Andrew DeWolf: Your dad did it?

[3:13] Jess McInally: My dad did it. Um, well, my my dad's dad did it, I guess.

[3:17] Andrew DeWolf: That'd be your grandfather.

[3:18] Jess McInally: My grandpa, my grandpappy, who I didn't know existed until recently because I was raised by a completely different family. Uh, but my grandpappy that I didn't know existed threw me off a train into a river and floated down the river, and I was raised by a different family, and then I became Superman.

[3:35] Andrew DeWolf: Which is why I'm on this podcast.

[3:37] Jess McInally: Did you come and free the Jewish people?

[3:39] Andrew DeWolf: I didn't free the Jewish people, but I freed all the banjos and violins, so now Steve Martin can write more bluegrass music.

[3:48] Jess McInally: The hero we deserve. Guys, this week, for a Patreon request um from Kyle, our wonderful patron Kyle, we are doing Bright Star.

[3:59] Andrew DeWolf: Ready for my life to begin. I'm ready for it all to start. My heart's about to bust. Don't lead the way. I must follow my own bright star.

[4:19] Jess McInally: Many a long cold night. I huddled down in the dark. I made a vow. If I ever made it out, I follow my own bright star.

[4:34] Andrew DeWolf: Bright star keep shining for me. Bright Star is a musical written and composed by Steve Martin and Edie Brickell. It's set in the Blue Ridge Mountains of North Carolina in 1945-1946 with flashbacks to 1923.

[4:51] Jess McInally: You keep it up because I wasn't. The musical is inspired by their Grammy-winning collaboration on the 2013 Bluegrass album Love Has Come for You.

[5:00] Andrew DeWolf: And in turn, the folk story of the Iron Mountain Baby.

[5:03] Jess McInally: Andrew.

[5:04] Andrew DeWolf: Iron Mountain Baby being Moses, basically.

[5:07] Jess McInally: And Superman.

[5:09] Andrew DeWolf: Well, Superman is also just Moses, to be real.

[5:13] Jess McInally: I can think of about 10 people online that'll fight you on that.

[5:16] Andrew DeWolf: One of them being Zack Snyder, who'll be like, no no no no no. He and Superman is actually Jesus.

[5:21] Jess McInally: Um, did you watch my movie?

[5:25] Andrew DeWolf: And Batman is also Jesus.

[5:27] Jess McInally: And Wonder Woman is Jesus.

[5:29] Andrew DeWolf: But girl Jesus.

[5:31] Jess McInally: I don't think I think in in Man of Steel, Superman is not Jesus. Superman is just like a Randian uh Ubermensch.

[5:40] Andrew DeWolf: And Batman and Batman v Superman is just Trump.

[5:43] Jess McInally: There you go. Yep. Alright, Andrew, what is what it what is Bright Star about? Like, tell me about it.

[5:47] Andrew DeWolf: Um, it's about bluegrass music and how we can fit a story around it.

[5:57] Jess McInally: I mean, you're not wrong in the this is gonna be a rough episode, guys. Just a warning, because I can feel it in my bones that I have so little good things to say about this show.

[6:06] Andrew DeWolf: And Jess is feeling a lot of things in his bones right now, considering he actually just fell off his bike and broke his arm.

[6:12] Jess McInally: Yes, I am currently wearing a sling and on a lot of drugs right now because I it's not my arm, it's my elbow. So it's literally any movement at all will find so much pain.

[6:23] Andrew DeWolf: Is it actually broken? Did you ever get back from that?

[6:26] Jess McInally: Um, I won't find out until Friday. Uh just don't move it till then.

[6:30] Andrew DeWolf: Well, no, I had to wait for the swelling to go down because you can't even put a cast on until it's done swelling.

[6:34] Jess McInally: Oh my god. I'm broken, guys.

[6:38] Andrew DeWolf: He's further away.

[6:39] Jess McInally: Physically, not mentally, although also mentally.

[6:41] Andrew DeWolf: And mentally broken because fucking Bright Star is dull as fucking paint.

[6:47] Jess McInally: You know, I'm gonna say some positive stuff before we start ripping this show apart because I know Jessica. I wish you luck.

[6:53] Andrew DeWolf: I know Jess is hateful towards this show.

[6:56] Jess McInally: Um it might just be the mood I'm in, but I hate the show.

[7:01] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, well, there's I think there's some good stuff in that. I think Steve Martin knows his bluegrass, and I think he writes some pretty good bluegrass songs here.

[7:11] Jess McInally: Um, but at the same time, because it's all exactly the same genre, it kind of blends together, and a lot of the songs feel the same.

[7:20] Andrew DeWolf: Um but they really stick to their guns on this bluegrass thing, and I I gotta I gotta give them credit for that. They're unwavering.

[7:27] Jess McInally: They will not write a different genre.

[7:32] Andrew DeWolf: There's a lot of musicals that work off of one genre. Hamilton for one, which is basically a hip-hop musical, but there's still variation in that.

[7:39] Jess McInally: That's true.

[7:40] Andrew DeWolf: And this it's like every song sounds the flippin' same.

[7:43] Jess McInally: The problem with that is that bluegrass all sounds the same.

[7:47] Andrew DeWolf: I think that's the problem. I think bluegrass itself is lacking in variety.

[7:52] Jess McInally: I I don't I know that we were recently just like given praise about not going into like the Tony season and whatever, but this was in one of the most stacked Tony years ever.

[8:04] Andrew DeWolf: Like in the history of the Tonies. It came out the same season as Hamilton and Waitress and uh Allegiance and a bunch of other really good shows, but this this gets a nomination this plays.

[8:17] Jess McInally: It's I mean, you hate it.

[8:19] Andrew DeWolf: I don't think it's that bad. I just think it's kind of dull in a lot of places.

[8:25] Jess McInally: I I mean I'm with you. I'm not sure. I don't know if it's offensively bad though. Like I don't know if I'm like angry that it got any time at the Tony.

[8:28] Andrew DeWolf: Like, I don't know. I'm specifically angry because that was a very stacked year where a lot of very good shows were not given nominations while this was.

[8:40] Jess McInally: Okay, that's fair.

[8:41] Andrew DeWolf: And and it only got the nominations because Steve Martin and Edie Brickell were the composers.

[8:47] Jess McInally: That is definitely true. Because that makes me so mad.

[8:51] Andrew DeWolf: If you can get Steve Martin on your program in any way, he's gonna bring in a more normie art audience, and you're not gonna have um trouble reaching that crowd like you usually would.

[9:03] Jess McInally: Because I mean, musicals are kind of a niche thing. It's not like everyone in their mother watches musicals.

[9:08] Andrew DeWolf: Um I mean, I might live in a different world than most people, but yeah, I get what you're saying.

[9:13] Jess McInally: I mean, I live in a world where if I tell someone I watch musicals, they look at me like I have eight heads.

[9:19] Andrew DeWolf: Do they do that when you tell them you have a musical podcast?

[9:22] Jess McInally: They're like, oh, that's cool. That's like the that's like the response. I've never met a single person who has been like, oh, what's your favorite show? This is mine.

[9:31] Andrew DeWolf: Like, oh well, well, actually, I take that back. At my new job, one person was like, oh, that's cool. My favorite show is the greatest showman.

[9:44] Jess McInally: And I was like, Oh, you have never felt like a theater snob more than in that moment, have you?

[9:50] Andrew DeWolf: No, and I'm like, uh I was just like, oh, that's cool.

[9:55] Jess McInally: They're like, oh, you know, little peon. Nose up.

[10:00] Andrew DeWolf: No, but like, I mean, it's I think that's a good thing, though. I think it's fine to have movies and things like that that bring people in.

[10:08] Jess McInally: It's better than it's better than not having that.

[10:12] Andrew DeWolf: I'm with you. I'm I'm gr like Hamilton.

[10:15] Jess McInally: I like we're on the eve of basically Hamilton taking over all of Disney Plus and that being everything that people talk about.

[10:21] Andrew DeWolf: And of course, our Hamilton episode is only four episodes away, but that is a gonna be a big thing, and it's gonna be a turning point in musical theater accessibility during these weird times.

[10:31] Jess McInally: I can just feel that coming on the horizon. Um, and this and Hamilton came out the same year, so it is tangentially connected in a way.

[10:40] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. Hey, you know, just like hip hop fans need a musical, bluegrass fans need a musical too.

[10:46] Jess McInally: In Hades Town Hades isn't enough, apparently.

[10:52] Andrew DeWolf: No, no, I can just see Anais Mitchell watching the Tonies that year, because everyone watched Tonies that year and being like, I can do this better.

[10:59] Jess McInally: Okay.

[11:00] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, you could argue Hades Town is not exactly bluegrass in the same way this is.

[11:04] Jess McInally: Um I know.

[11:06] Andrew DeWolf: But yeah.

[11:07] Jess McInally: Hades Town is definitely objectively a better show than this.

[11:10] Andrew DeWolf: Uh but Andrew, the thing is, uh it's not even just like us talking about the music, because music is not entire musical.

[11:17] Jess McInally: Yeah, we haven't we haven't talked about the story yet, and that's the problem.

[11:20] Andrew DeWolf: I think that's the real problem, not the music.

[11:23] Jess McInally: Yes. The real problem is the story.

[11:27] Andrew DeWolf: Like, I'm trying to rack my brain trying to think of an easy way to describe this overly complicated yet overly simple at the same time story.

[11:35] Jess McInally: It is the simplest fucking story in the world, stretched to two hours and then made overly complicated in a way that it's almost nonsensical.

[11:42] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, it's like you don't have to tell one half of the story in reverse just because you have a boring story.

[11:53] Jess McInally: Citation, last five years of the episode. Um, no, but I know I make the excuse that you have a little cheat sheet in the playbill a lot, but this time it's like there's no reason for it.

[12:06] Andrew DeWolf: There's no narrative reason that makes it even more surprising or anything like that.

[12:10] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, the flashback stuff just is really doesn't need to be there. At all. And I feel like it's only there because they had these songs that they're like, well, how else do we use these? Uh we wrote these songs, we want to put the songs in. Because I think, and I don't I don't know. I don't want to insult Steve Martin or anything, but I think I will. I think he wrote these songs first, and then they wrote the story. Um, and it really feels that way too. It's like, how do we fit a story around these? And that's why it's so dull sometimes, because it's just like, oh, well, I guess you have this song because you had this song and you have to put it in there. This stinks to me of a musical written by people that don't understand how musicals work, if that makes sense. And I know that's about as snobby as it can come across, and I'm talking structurally more than it is like they just don't understand the core of what musical theater is.

[13:06] Jess McInally: Um, well, yeah, well, why don't we talk about the structure of it?

[13:10] Andrew DeWolf: Alright, because you and I I talk about structure a lot of it. You're you're more of the structure guy than I am, so you can start breaking it down and I'll just interject.

[13:20] Andrew DeWolf: Let's start with the first three numbers.

[13:22] Jess McInally: Okay.

[13:23] Andrew DeWolf: We start with if you knew my story, which Alice sings basically directly to the audience, like, if you knew my story, breaking the fourth wall.

[13:30] Jess McInally: Yeah, right?

[13:31] Andrew DeWolf: Absolutely. And it that's like a world setting up song, and then we go into two numbers from Billy.

[13:37] Jess McInally: Okay, I want to say that when I was watching this, I was looking up like um, because you know, you usually have a playbill, so I you look, I looked up like a synopsis, and I was like, Well, what am I supposed to be seeing here? And I was literally like, Am I watching the wrong show? Because I could I could not figure out like every synopsis talked about Alice being the main character, and I was like, Where is this guy? Who is this guy? Why where's Alice? I haven't seen her since the opening number, and like I can't figure out how this plot makes any sense.

[14:10] Andrew DeWolf: And I know, like a lot of people are like, formulas are bad and formulas are this and formulas are that. Formulas are a very handy guide for folks to understand who our league characters are. Also, and when you're writing like a folk tale like this, I think it's very, very uh attractive to just write with a formula. It's a folk tale. It's not it's not complicated. It's simple. Just do it. And the formula basically for an intro is you have an opening number that sets up the world. You might have a superstitial number, but roughly the second number of the show should set up your main character and what they want.

[14:46] Jess McInally: Yeah.

[14:47] Andrew DeWolf: Whereas Alice in that opening number, I don't know if she's in the past version of herself or she's in the present version of herself, or if it's just her generally speaking out. Like, because we jump between time periods so much, I d it's baffling to me because I don't understand it.

[15:02] Jess McInally: Yeah, and it doesn't really feel like even by the end, it doesn't come back around to that if you knew my story moment. Like it's doesn't come it doesn't circle, that doesn't come back, it doesn't doesn't make sense.

[15:14] Andrew DeWolf: And just that we start in the future, so to say, with Billy, then we go to the past, and we stay in the past for a good while, and then we don't jump to the future until midway through act two, basically.

[15:26] Jess McInally: Yeah.

[15:27] Andrew DeWolf: Um do we have And Billy isn't a character, so to say.

[15:31] Jess McInally: Okay, Andrew, just tell the story, please, as best as you can.

[15:34] Andrew DeWolf: Because I feel like honestly, try to tell us what happened.

[15:38] Andrew DeWolf: I'm gonna tell it the best I can. I'm gonna start with just Billy, because honestly, Billy feels like the main character to me for the most part.

[15:45] Jess McInally: I disagree.

[15:46] Andrew DeWolf: At least the show does not want you to think that.

[15:48] Jess McInally: It th maybe it doesn't want you, but that's how they open it, that he gets the most of the songs.

[15:53] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know. At least early on.

[15:55] Jess McInally: I don't know. I'm gonna start with Billy, and then we'll move to Alice when she shows up.

[15:59] Andrew DeWolf: Um Billy lives in a small town, and he was with his dad and his mom, and he's coming back from war. His mom dies, and he wants to be a writer, so he leaves. He has like a girlfriend who is basically you could just remove entirely from the show.

[16:16] Jess McInally: Um completely, like, so let's not even talk about her.

[16:19] Andrew DeWolf: She's irrelevant. Um Billy goes into the elephant.

[16:23] Jess McInally: She's an elephant.

[16:24] Andrew DeWolf: Not true. Nothing Billy goes to a big city where Alice runs or is the editor of a uh newspaper or magazine or something like that.

[16:34] Jess McInally: Um, and they say she's an old spinster and a real bitch.

[16:37] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, which we never really see that much of.

[16:41] Jess McInally: See a little bit of it.

[16:43] Andrew DeWolf: No.

[16:43] Jess McInally: Yeah, because she just dresses conservatively and therefore equal bitch.

[16:48] Andrew DeWolf: I guess. Um so Billy goes and he wants to write for them, and he lies about knowing some author that I guess later on is revealed that they were dead the whole time.

[16:59] Jess McInally: Uh and then we get some backstory on Alice about her being pregnant in the past and being forced to marry someone else.

[17:10] Andrew DeWolf: She she gives birth to a baby, and the guy that knocked her up, yeah, her his dad is like the mayor.

[17:16] Jess McInally: Yeah, well, they wanted to get married, and the dad was like, no, don't.

[17:20] Andrew DeWolf: You ain't marrying this barefoot commoner.

[17:22] Jess McInally: Or more being forced not to marry, is what I should say.

[17:25] Andrew DeWolf: Uh yeah, forced not to marry.

[17:26] Jess McInally: Yeah.

[17:27] Andrew DeWolf: Um that happens, which and then that comes back around later in Act Two.

[17:33] Jess McInally: What what even happens in the rest of Act One?

[17:35] Andrew DeWolf: It's just kind of He throws the baby off the train, he steals the baby and then tries to kill it.

[17:40] Jess McInally: The ending is the baby gets thrown off a train, but that's in the past, of course.

[17:44] Andrew DeWolf: It's it's I'm gonna say confused yet. The the twist, quote unquote, is incredibly obvious.

[17:51] Jess McInally: Like from the get-go.

[17:53] Andrew DeWolf: Billy is the kid.

[17:55] Jess McInally: Yep.

[17:55] Andrew DeWolf: Billy is Alice's kid, Alice and uh Jimmy's kid.

[18:00] Jess McInally: Yeah, very, very obvious.

[18:02] Andrew DeWolf: Um then the second act, the second act is mostly Alice.

[18:06] Jess McInally: It's mostly meandering.

[18:08] Andrew DeWolf: Like, there's like a song about um sun's gonna shine and all or There's some stuff and then Alice Another round about drinking, and I had a uh it's just There's some stuff in the Alice finds out that Billy was thrown off the bridge and or the train, and and she was like, Oh my god, and then she goes to Billy's house for some reason, and the dad's like, oh my goodness, Superman happened here, and then you know, she's like, Oh, that's my kid, and then Jimmy is there, and and they get married, I think, in the end.

[18:39] Jess McInally: I don't understand the point of the show.

[18:40] Andrew DeWolf: What is the mess?

[18:42] Jess McInally: What is the moral?

[18:42] Andrew DeWolf: Don't like if you don't have a child, you'll become a bitch and everyone will hate you.

[18:47] Jess McInally: I don't think there's a moral.

[18:49] Andrew DeWolf: I just think it's it's like here's this tale, and they just kind of give it to you.

[18:53] Jess McInally: I don't think I don't The thing about folk tales is they're supposed to have morals. Even like Hades Town had a moral, they said it very clearly.

[19:00] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I mean, if we were to read into it, the moral is probably throwing a baby off a train is a bad thing to do.

[19:06] Jess McInally: Don't have sex or they'll get pregnant and the baby will get murdered by your grandfather.

[19:11] Andrew DeWolf: That's not the moral though, because the grandfather is objectively the villain, so his actions are supposed to be bad.

[19:17] Jess McInally: He's a bad guy.

[19:18] Andrew DeWolf: I mean.

[19:19] Jess McInally: I'm gonna do bad thing.

[19:21] Andrew DeWolf: Like, what does Alice learn?

[19:23] Jess McInally: Like, if Alice is the lead and she's the main character, what does she learn?

[19:27] Andrew DeWolf: What is her character arc?

[19:28] Jess McInally: She goes from being Oh my fucking god, are you she goes from being a free spirit, happy person to being a mother to being a w like a woman that lost a child to being a spinster to being slightly happier?

[19:41] Andrew DeWolf: Well, I would say the only character arc that actually matters for Alice is she goes from being a spinster to being a woman who's slightly happier.

[19:48] Jess McInally: Because that's the only part that takes place in the modern day and is already is is currently happening.

[19:54] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[19:54] Jess McInally: Can we talk a little bit about the main male figure?

[19:57] Andrew DeWolf: Um, Jimmy.

[19:58] Jess McInally: Jimmy?

[19:59] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, sure. He's he's a a rich boy, and uh he has He's a daddy's boy, and it is the the most spineless, unaffective character I have ever seen in theater.

[20:11] Jess McInally: And what he learns is that now that his dad is dead, he doesn't have to care about him anymore.

[20:17] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, he That's his character.

[20:18] Jess McInally: The worst he ever does to his dad after finding out that he murdered his child was man, you're pretty evil, dad.

[20:25] Andrew DeWolf: Like, and he doesn't even suspect that his dad did that.

[20:27] Jess McInally: Like dad just tells it, he offers that information.

[20:31] Andrew DeWolf: The dad is actually like the best scene is when the dad offers that information because it's like it's like watching a Disney villain.

[20:39] Jess McInally: Like, it's like, oh my god, is Ursula on screen right now?

[20:43] Andrew DeWolf: Like, are we just watching this?

[20:45] Jess McInally: Like, they're just pure evil, like on the screen.

[20:48] Andrew DeWolf: Like, he's like, I threw the baby off a train. The baby's dead.

[20:52] Jess McInally: Like, he had no reason to say that.

[20:54] Andrew DeWolf: I guess it was just on his chest.

[20:55] Jess McInally: He had to get it get it off his chest.

[20:57] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know.

[20:58] Jess McInally: Fuck.

[20:58] Andrew DeWolf: A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.

[21:02] Jess McInally: It is the one song I remember from the show, I'll say that.

[21:06] Andrew DeWolf: Um, so it's a very feminist film, obviously.

[21:10] Jess McInally: It is not feminist.

[21:10] Andrew DeWolf: I it's also not a film.

[21:15] Jess McInally: I wasn't gonna call you out on that, but no, but it's uh it's definitely a feminist show.

[21:20] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, Alice is a strong female character who gets her baby taken away and thrown off a train.

[21:25] Jess McInally: No!

[21:30] Andrew DeWolf: Don't l look to the show for anything like that.

[21:33] Jess McInally: I mean, the actual good ending is that Jimmy and Alice get married, so she just marries Rich, I guess.

[21:39] Andrew DeWolf: She marries the guy that it knocked her up.

[21:41] Jess McInally: Yep.

[21:42] Andrew DeWolf: The guy whose dad threw a baby off a train and he didn't even have the heart to tell her.

[21:47] Jess McInally: I mean, he did as soon as he found out.

[21:49] Andrew DeWolf: I will give him that.

[21:50] Jess McInally: But does Alice Alice really believe him that that that was when he found out?

[21:54] Andrew DeWolf: Like, come on.

[21:54] Jess McInally: Do you think that she wants to be related in any way to the person that tried to murder her child?

[22:00] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, she's gonna, you know, visit his grave every once in a while.

[22:03] Jess McInally: Jimmy's gonna talk about him all the time.

[22:05] Andrew DeWolf: Man, my dad.

[22:06] Jess McInally: You mean the man that tried to murder a boy?

[22:09] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, yeah, my Peppy.

[22:12] Jess McInally: Yeah, yeah, that guy.

[22:13] Andrew DeWolf: My pet pep.

[22:14] Jess McInally: Man.

[22:15] Andrew DeWolf: He used to take me on the best fishing trips.

[22:18] Jess McInally: Uh, yeah, can we not talk about this?

[22:20] Andrew DeWolf: And then you got the Billy story, which is like him and this girl in like who cares?

[22:25] Jess McInally: Oh my god, who cares?

[22:28] Andrew DeWolf: She isn't sure she wants to be with him, even though she's been like riding his dick the entire first and second act.

[22:34] Jess McInally: Then he has to marry her, and she's like, I don't know.

[22:37] Andrew DeWolf: And then she's like, I'm his fiance.

[22:39] Jess McInally: And he's like, When will you go tell me?

[22:41] Andrew DeWolf: It's one of those musicals.

[22:43] Jess McInally: Yeah.

[22:45] Andrew DeWolf: When you see like an episode of The Simpsons, and they're going to see a musical, this is the musical they're seeing.

[22:51] Jess McInally: You know, no plot, just general bullshit happening.

[22:54] Andrew DeWolf: Actually, they go to see the Planets of the Apes uh musical.

[22:57] Jess McInally: Didn't they go to a see an itchy and scratchy musical?

[22:59] Andrew DeWolf: What did they like get covered in paper mache blood?

[23:02] Jess McInally: I just remember the the Planet of the Apes one and they they sing uh Dr. Zayus Dr. Zayus, Doctor Z.

[23:09] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, didn't they do a Charlie Sheen musical about like

[23:09] Jess McInally: Oh did they?

[23:14] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, cuz there's a song number about him going into the the rehab, and he's like, Oh, I'm checking in.

[23:22] Jess McInally: Oh my god.

[23:23] Andrew DeWolf: The Simpsons is a gift.

[23:25] Jess McInally: You bet your ass it is.

[23:27] Andrew DeWolf: So Steve Martin.

[23:28] Jess McInally: Yes, Steve Martin.

[23:30] Andrew DeWolf: Um we are gonna have to talk about the the elephant in the room.

[23:33] Jess McInally: Steve Martin.

[23:34] Andrew DeWolf: Edie Percell.

[23:35] Jess McInally: We can't keep her out. She's a very well-known bluegrass singer.

[23:38] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, okay, okay. Both of them are responsible.

[23:40] Jess McInally: I don't know her that well, to be honest.

[23:42] Andrew DeWolf: She's married to Paul Simon.

[23:43] Jess McInally: Oh, okay.

[23:44] Andrew DeWolf: I like Paul Simon. Some of his stuff.

[23:46] Jess McInally: I I have no idea who that is, because I don't listen to I don't listen to Normie music.

[23:51] Andrew DeWolf: That's great. Um well Steve Martin has been a music theater icon for a while, right?

[23:56] Jess McInally: I I don't think so.

[23:58] Andrew DeWolf: What are you thinking?

[23:59] Jess McInally: Icon, quote unquote.

[24:01] Andrew DeWolf: He's a dentist, right?

[24:02] Jess McInally: That's that's about it.

[24:03] Andrew DeWolf: Oh yeah, he yeah, yeah, that's about it.

[24:06] Jess McInally: I think that's the only thing he's done.

[24:07] Andrew DeWolf: And then this.

[24:08] Jess McInally: Yeah, he yeah, and then this.

[24:10] Andrew DeWolf: Um I think even when the Tonies were happening, he's like, oh, these hardworking musicians got here through blood, sweat, and tears.

[24:16] Andrew DeWolf: Or you were famous already and got in easy. I mean, maybe there's some negative stuff about him. I don't really know that much, but he's kind of a funny guy, I guess. I don't know. I don't really know. I think he's well intentioned and all that. Um, he does say the N-word pretty, pretty emphatically a lot during The Jerk.

[24:34] Jess McInally: Yeah.

[24:35] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, and you can say it's a different time all you want, but probably shouldn't have done that. I it's even within the film, it's well intentioned, but I'm not gonna go fucking defending that, no. I don't know if I want to go and call Steve Martin a racist, though. Like, I don't know. I don't know about that. I don't know. I don't us as white people shouldn't be like calling other white people racist to begin with. We will let people who actually get hurt by these things decide what's racist.

[25:00] Jess McInally: Jess, are you trying to say that we shouldn't call out racists just because we're the wrong race?

[25:05] Andrew DeWolf: I'm saying that maybe we shouldn't be the ones to say whether or not things count as racist.

[25:09] Jess McInally: That's right. Whether it be positive or negative.

[25:12] Andrew DeWolf: Alright, so if any black people have watched The Jerk, let me know if it's racist.

[25:16] Jess McInally: Yeah, honestly, I am very interested in what people of color's opinions on The Jerk are in modern day. It's my stepfather's favorite movie of all time.

[25:25] Andrew DeWolf: I'm not kidding.

[25:27] Jess McInally: That's every stepfather's favorite movie of all time. I've watched it once and I thought it was okay.

[25:34] Andrew DeWolf: That's kind of how I feel about it. Bernadette Peters is good in it.

[25:37] Jess McInally: He doesn't sing any songs.

[25:38] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, he does.

[25:39] Jess McInally: Does he?

[25:40] Andrew DeWolf: I don't remember.

[25:40] Jess McInally: Yeah, I. Oh no, he's on the porch. He sings on the porch, doesn't he?

[25:43] Andrew DeWolf: No, he sings a duet with Bernadette Peters, and then she has a cornet solo. There's that weird plot aspect where like he doesn't he like see himself as a black person almost?

[25:54] Jess McInally: What?

[25:55] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know. I don't know. The Jerk is weird. I'm not gonna comment on it anymore.

[26:02] Jess McInally: I think we're done commenting on that. Um, you know what else is weird?

[26:06] Andrew DeWolf: What's that?

[26:06] Jess McInally: A mid-show announcement. Let's go into one.

[26:08] Andrew DeWolf: Oh boy, we're done with Steve Martin already. We threw him under the bus. That's all we had to say. If you knew my story, we'd have a mid-show announcement right now.

[26:22] Jess McInally: Hey guys, sorry to interrupt you in the middle of the show, but we've got a shell at you. Today's show is brought to you by the wonderful, wonderful people on our Patreon.

[26:29] Andrew DeWolf: Our bright stars on our bright stars, yeah. Especially Kyle, who made us talk about it this week. I hope we hope you're enjoying it, Kyle. I hope this wasn't like your favorite musical of all time. Couldn't even give us a last name, and now we're bitching about The Jerk.

[26:42] Jess McInally: That's his favorite movie.

[26:44] Andrew DeWolf: The Jerk's his favorite movie. The Bright Star is his favorite musical.

[26:49] Jess McInally: Oh, it's all a mess.

[26:50] Andrew DeWolf: Oh my goodness. Kyle Martin, maybe. Is that what we should be saying? Kyle Brickell for the other composer.

[26:58] Jess McInally: Oh, that's what it is, isn't it? He hid the last name from us, Kyle.

[27:03] Andrew DeWolf: Kyle!

[27:04] Jess McInally: Kyle!

[27:07] Andrew DeWolf: But our patrons are Terry Needleman, Max Lunig, Benjamin Lear, Lily Accles, Haley McDonald, Tess Gear, Fire September, Mina Maniri, we love you, Mina, Monica Thoreau, Brent Black, Haley Murray, Allison Wonderland, B Way Flicks, Lathaniel Stacey Coomb, Joseph Hens Green, Lunarox, 222, Uri Gale, Dre White, Carrie Ahern, Christine Malmadell, Mezzanine Theatre Diary, Mary Lou Choquette, and Nunley, Cole Birchfield, John Donna, Terran the Duck, The Fantastic, Jess Lightning, Ewan Cassidy, Sam Caulfield, John Van Alz, Holly Stistically, Russ Walker, Musical Hell, Emily Grace, Andrew Van Barsen, Emily Stack, Kyle Summers, Mr. B, Janae C, Kyle, Kyle, Christina Francis, Jessica A, Skyler, Liz Lim, Cory Wilmarth, and Allison Stoller, who all give us a little extra financial support that helps us keep the lights on here in Musicals with Cheese.

[28:02] Jess McInally: And they're getting tons of fun perks, such as patron-only commentaries, our episodes a day earlier, even earlier. Um, and our Glee podcast, which is going great. We've get we're getting guests on that. It's a lot of fun, folks. You're missing out.

[28:15] Andrew DeWolf: Alright, let's get back to the show.

[28:17] Jess McInally: This my spirit, every time I hear it, comfort my aching heart. Bright star, bright day. Keep shining for me. Keep shining for me. I'm on my way. Bright star keeps shining for me. Shine on and see me through. Bright star keep shining for me. I'll shine for you. Bright star, bright star, keep shining for me. Shine up and see me through. Bright star, bright star, keep shining for me. And one day I'll shine for you.

[29:21] Andrew DeWolf: I kinda liked Bright Star. I think that was my favorite song.

[29:24] Jess McInally: Bright Star is catchy, yeah. Um, means nothing. Literally, it serves as an I want song.

[29:30] Andrew DeWolf: It serves as an I want song.

[29:32] Jess McInally: But for a character that for Billy, though.

[29:34] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, that's why I'm saying, like, what is with the Billy versus Alice like main character struggle here going on? I mean, the only one that actually has any clear goals is Pappy.

[29:45] Jess McInally: I mean, Billy has goals. He wants to write for a newspaper.

[29:49] Andrew DeWolf: And he succeeds in that goal by the basically five minutes in. Honestly, I think Billy, I think there's an argument that Billy is the main character. He has an actual arc and he has a goal that he achieves.

[30:01] Jess McInally: What does Alice have?

[30:02] Andrew DeWolf: Alice everything just got her baby. She wants to find her baby, and then her baby lands in her lap.

[30:07] Jess McInally: Yeah, but she never like works towards that goal. That's just like a passive goal that she has, and then it just happens in the end. Whereas Billy actually is happier.

[30:19] Andrew DeWolf: I mean he lies, yeah. He lies, he moves to a different city, and then he realizes that he doesn't want to live in that city, and he moves back. Like he actually has an arc where he's like, This is what I want, here's how to get it, and then he realizes that's not how I get it, and I get it a different way. There's a full actual story behind the scenes of the story this musical is trying to tell.

[30:39] Jess McInally: I don't like Billy as the main character would have made more sense.

[30:43] Andrew DeWolf: I guess. But then you'd have to take away Carmen Cusack and all of her fun numbers. And pretty much everything else in the story, like the mayor stuff, the Jimmy stuff, the Alice stuff. I don't know. Imagine if all the flashbacks were told in just one story song from Alice.

[31:00] Jess McInally: You mean like Billy entering this new town that he doesn't know, and then there's like this dark secret and this really bitchy lady. Then he finally goes to talk about her, and she talks about like how her baby was stolen from her and thrown off a train. And then in the end he finds out he's that baby and doesn't and his entire white life is in question. He actually has song numbers and dealing with that and realizing he's not a boy anymore.

[31:22] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. Although the ending would have to be later on, I feel like, because if it ended there, it'd be like Billy goes to a new town, he wants to be a writer, and then all of a sudden, you're my baby, and then over. That's it.

[31:34] Jess McInally: No, no, no. He goes there and then he has all like the drinking numbers. He has this girl that he thinks he likes, and he's trying to get to, but then he grows this friendship with this older lady that no one can seem to melt the heart of, but somehow he and her have this unknown connection. He meets his own dad and doesn't exactly.

[31:53] Andrew DeWolf: See, I'm already writing a better version of this right now.

[31:56] Jess McInally: Yeah, but see, the problem with that is you'd have to write the story first, and then what do you do with all these songs?

[31:56] Andrew DeWolf: What do you do?

[32:04] Jess McInally: What do you do with a song called A Man's Gotta Do?

[32:07] Andrew DeWolf: You're right. Oh, man's gotta do without a comically evil mayor character.

[32:12] Jess McInally: He's so out of place. That song is out of place. That entire plot line.

[32:17] Andrew DeWolf: He is too evil for the world that this is setting up.

[32:20] Jess McInally: Well, yeah, because the whole rest of the world is like there, yeah, bad stuff happens, but everyone is generally well intentioned, and then this guy is just like, I've gotta protect my son by murdering his child. Protect my legacy. It's ridiculous.

[32:33] Andrew DeWolf: So ridiculous.

[32:38] Jess McInally: You're a young girl, and you wanna know better. Then it'd be he.

[32:45] Andrew DeWolf: What would everybody think? Whoa, mama better back up slowly and make a quick getaway and hurry on home.

[32:52] Jess McInally: Whoa, mama at the rate you're gonna go, and your pop will get a shot. Gonna have to run me and off, they'll hide in the shadows, fall out of trees.

[33:00] Andrew DeWolf: Wait by your window, whisper. Bless you when you sneeze.

[33:04] Jess McInally: Someone will look at you just like this.

[33:08] Andrew DeWolf: Whoa, mama.

[33:09] Jess McInally: I want to talk about that for a second.

[33:11] Andrew DeWolf: Sure.

[33:11] Jess McInally: I I I don't know if I remember this one.

[33:14] Andrew DeWolf: I only remember it because it used to come on my iTunes shuffle quite a bit, and I didn't hate it when it happened. Because it can be like, You're a young girl!

[33:25] Jess McInally: And I'm like, wow, that flirting technique. Nice.

[33:29] Andrew DeWolf: Very well done. I'm gonna go up to the girl I'm trying to court and be like, You're a young girl, you should be with me. Whoa, mama.

[33:37] Jess McInally: Whoa, mama, you-do do.

[33:41] Andrew DeWolf: That's just it's like something Johnny Bravo would say.

[33:44] Jess McInally: Whoa, mama.

[33:45] Andrew DeWolf: Whoa, mama. You're a young girl.

[33:49] Jess McInally: Um, and I think it's slightly charming.

[33:52] Andrew DeWolf: Like, slightly.

[33:53] Jess McInally: I mean, a lot of the songs in this are like somewhat charming and somewhat wholesome, but I feel like it's just because they're bluegrass songs, and that's what bluegrass is supposed to be.

[34:05] Andrew DeWolf: Supposed to be slightly off-putting, but also kind of good.

[34:09] Jess McInally: Like Bluegrass is like an embodiment of that southern hospitality, but like in music hospitality, but in like musical form, you know.

[34:18] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, this is one of the few like Steve Martin didn't write any of the lyrics, it was just Edie Brickell.

[34:23] Jess McInally: Yeah.

[34:24] Andrew DeWolf: So really Steve Martin's the name is in this for no reason. Steve Martin probably wrote, I mean, he's a pretty famous banjo player and bluegrass musician, like in his own right. So I mean, here are some of the lyrics, which I'm not sure I uh are good or bad, like as I'm reading them aloud. Like, they work very well when you hear them.

[34:43] Jess McInally: Like the I don't have a problem with the lyrics because they work with the songs, it's just all the songs sound the same. But like on Home Who Mama, at the rate you're going, you'll pop all surely get a shotgun and have to run men off. They'll hide you in the shadows, fall out of the trees, wait by your window, whispers bless when you sneeze.

[35:00] Andrew DeWolf: Bless you when you sneeze.

[35:01] Jess McInally: Hmm. It's a little tacky.

[35:05] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, it doesn't not work.

[35:08] Jess McInally: It doesn't. I just don't like it.

[35:11] Andrew DeWolf: Alright, let's talk about a let's talk about A Man's Gotta Do, because I feel like that's the only song really of note.

[35:18] Jess McInally: God, this song is so bad, but it's the only one I remember when the show's over.

[35:22] Andrew DeWolf: Honestly, though, it is. It's like a it's got like that playground taunt kind of like memorability. It's like you'll never forget na na na na na na and like and it's not in a good way.

[35:35] Jess McInally: I'm with you.

[35:36] Andrew DeWolf: Uh and I think it's actively bad. Like it's an actively bad song.

[35:41] Jess McInally: But um it's also the act one closer.

[35:44] Andrew DeWolf: Uh the re a reprise is the act one closer.

[35:48] Jess McInally: But it is it is the act one closer, though.

[35:50] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, it is. Which means that it is it is the one of the most important songs in the show.

[35:55] Jess McInally: And it really isn't that good.

[35:57] Andrew DeWolf: This song is this song is reprised three times in the show. It is the most reprised song in the show.

[36:03] Jess McInally: Now that I think about it.

[36:04] Andrew DeWolf: It's just not good. You get at the end of act one, and you get it midway through act two when he's like explaining his evil deeds. Uh, it's just not good.

[36:16] Jess McInally: And it's for a character that like sucks.

[36:19] Andrew DeWolf: Can I read you? Can I do a dramatic reading of what these lyrics are?

[36:23] Jess McInally: Sure, sure. A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do when a man's gotta do what he's got to.

[36:29] Andrew DeWolf: Ah, a well-bred wife with a silver spoon and a knife will butter your bread twice as good as you do.

[36:35] Jess McInally: I remember I was your age. That's when I was settling down. Your mother and I were engaged, and I opened up a bank account. You can't expect the future to be just like the past.

[36:46] Andrew DeWolf: You haven't got a clue, sir. Please try to understand. A man's. You can't waste your time on foolish things. When there's real work to be done, there won't be any stopping you and me when you tell me when you do what I tell you, son.

[37:01] Jess McInally: It's bad. It's a bad, bad song. A man's got to do what a man's got to do what a man's got to.

[37:08] Andrew DeWolf: Is that what it is? Based. A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do when a man's gotta do what he's got to.

[37:13] Jess McInally: Oh, it's even worse than that. They repeat it three times and then they say got to.

[37:17] Andrew DeWolf: Yes. It's awful. It really is awful.

[37:20] Jess McInally: Yeah, and it's even worse than the reprise, so. Uh, I feel bad for I feel bad for Kyle. He probably loved this show.

[37:27] Andrew DeWolf: Kyle's like, oh my god, like literally in his very, very kind request message, like, and he was very complimentary to our show, and I feel real bad.

[37:35] Jess McInally: He's like, I love what you do. I hope you guys enjoy the music. I uh to be fair to that though, I think some of the music is nice and it's good to listen to. It's just musical wise and fitting into the story and and all of that. It really just doesn't work. I don't even dislike bluegrass, to be honest with you. I I kind of think it's it's a fun genre in some cases. I would have liked a little bit more energy from a lot of these songs. I feel like Bright Star is the most energetic that a lot of the music gets.

[38:03] Andrew DeWolf: Um yeah, and it's very early on that feels like a act one closer.

[38:07] Jess McInally: Yeah, I feel like Bright Star is the best piece, and I would have liked to see that um more in in more songs like that. Um, but a lot of these just kind of feel like this slower, um, kind of just dull, just dullness to them. Let me say this. I actively enjoy when Alice has solo numbers. I do not remember them after they're done, but I remember every time it's happened, I'm like, oh yeah, Carmen Cusack's really good at this, and I'm enjoying the way her voice sounds and the music and all this. They are zero percent memorable to me. I think that's about as fair as I can get with that.

[38:41] Andrew DeWolf: I'll be honest, I'm not even sure there's another song like that's noteworthy enough that I feel like I want to talk about it. Um I really like uh I mean, do we have do we talk about like please don't take him? I feel like that's the big emotional number.

[38:54] Jess McInally: I like that one. I actually like that one. That feels like a musical theater number.

[38:58] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, I was gonna say that. That's that's probably the best number. I think Bright Star is the most like the best bluegrass song in here, but I think the best music theater number is Please Don't Take Him.

[39:10] Jess McInally: Yes, and but even then it feels a little too reminiscent of You Will Not Touch Him from Miss Saigon where everyone's just kind of screaming at once and it sounds really cool and dramatic and you feel all the emotions, but also I just kind of feel that this musical isn't really gonna commit to killing a baby, you know?

[39:26] Andrew DeWolf: It yeah. Even when it happened, I'm like, they aren't gonna commit to this. You know, though, it's still good, and it's still got a lot of emotion to it and a lot of uh Oh yes. It's a it's a if the mayor character wasn't portrayed like a Disney villain, I I would probably believe it more. It's it's ironic that the mayor being so evil almost makes his evil acts feel like they have less weight. You know what I'm saying?

[39:51] Jess McInally: Like he's portrayed as just like this almost like a like a propagandized capitalist fat cat, like, you know, you know what I'm saying? Like he feels like a character that is meant to be hyperbolized. So I feel like his actions cannot be taken seriously.

[40:06] Andrew DeWolf: No, he is not a serious character. And the thing is, everything else is like soap opera melodrama except for that Disney villain. It's like if you put uh Ursula into an actual serious melodrama about someone losing their child.

[40:19] Jess McInally: Yeah. If he was more grounded, still had the same-ish motives, and did all the same actions, but wasn't portrayed with that like over-the-top a man's gotta do song, you know?

[40:32] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. Like I would like portrayed him more like Frollo from the hunchback stage musical where yeah, he does bad things, but he kind of contextualizes it and it makes you understand why he's doing music.

[40:43] Jess McInally: Yeah. Whereas like I understand why he's doing it, but it's such a bad motive that it it's like you can't even buy it. It ruined my legacy. Like maybe if he was part of the clergy, that would make a little bit even more sense.

[40:55] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, and I'm not saying that nobody like this has ever existed. There are definitely people that are evil and do horrible things, but like when it's in a story like this, it kind of breaks immersion.

[41:05] Jess McInally: Yeah, no, a hundred percent. Um, yeah, is there any other songs you want to talk about? I feel like there are duets in here that I liked. I mean, there's songs that I liked that I may even like Bright Star, I think is probably the one I would go back and listen to again, because I just think it's a nice song. Um, but yeah, I don't know. I got nothing.

[41:23] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, that's as I said early on, I don't have much positive to say about this show. And I let's not play this like Jesse listened to the cast album and didn't try to give a shit and was like, oh, who cares? No, I watched a bootleg, I listened to the cast album, I watched the concert, I tried my damnedest to like this show so much. And I know Kyle, you were in this show, and I know you really wanted us to like it. Sorry. Just wasn't for me. I don't think it was performed badly.

[41:52] Jess McInally: I don't remember. I don't know. I thought Carmen Cusack is amazing. I thought um Paul Nolan, let me get Paul Paul Xander Nolan, who is also played Jesus on Jesus Christ Superstar on Broadway, also did a very good job, and they had a lot of chemistry. But I don't give a fuck. If the story isn't written in a way where I can give a damn about the relationship, um, Kathy and Jamie from the last five years had more on stage chemistry, and they're not even on stage with each other most of the time.

[42:21] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. Honestly, though, I think you're being a little overly negative for what this deserves. I just think it needs to be shop. It needs to be shopped a bit more. I think the story needs to be streamlined, and there needs to be a more of a uh they need to figure out who they want to be the main character and who they want to have the arc. Because I think Alice as it is doesn't have a strong enough drive, and um it's definitely not Jimmy. I mean Jimmy, like whatever. I'm nothing, I'm a daddy's boy. I love my daddy. Billy has motives and does things based on those motives, but he also is not the focus of the story, and uh his motives are not directly related to what actually happens in the story. Um so I don't know. I feel like there just needs to be a more of a uh a focus on someone who is more fun to watch.

[43:08] Jess McInally: Yeah, I'm I'm with you entirely. Um I wish that they had let this one sit in an oven for a little while. I will say the best way to watch this is the recent concert version they did in 2016. Um they cut out most of the book and just kept in the the the bare minimum of pieces you needed to understand what was going on. And that is the best version of this. And I would give that uh I would still give that a five out of ten, like if I was actually a critic. But you know what? It's manageable, and if you like bluegrass, you can digest all that fucking bluegrass music all that you want.

[43:38] Andrew DeWolf: If you like bluegrass, uh at least listen to the uh the album. Yeah, the album you probably like. Um I thought I would like this a lot more than I did, because some songs on the album would come up on my um on my stuff, on my shuffles.

[43:59] Jess McInally: Yeah. Well, um, since you're not a real critic, um

[43:59] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I'm definitely not.

[44:05] Jess McInally: What would you give this as far as cheese rating? Uh um I would give it a cheese plate, but it's all cut into banjo strings, which means it's not even edible. You're just looking at it like, oh, okay. That that's that's fine, I guess. I wish I knew more about southern culture so I could pick something that's like uniquely southern. Um, but I feel like I feel like you could give this a like a mac and cheese. Like it's just it's like bland, but it's not horrible.

[44:34] Andrew DeWolf: No, you're specifically giving it craft mac and cheese where it's not even cheese, it's just a powder that you mix into fucking water.

[44:40] Jess McInally: Oh, that's rude.

[44:41] Andrew DeWolf: I'm gonna give it actual home-baked mac and cheese, because I feel like they did put effort into this, Jess, and you're just being a big meanie.

[44:49] Jess McInally: Maybe I am. Maybe I'm just in a lot of pain right now.

[44:52] Andrew DeWolf: He is, and he's on drugs as well, so I mean it's fair.

[44:55] Jess McInally: Maybe it's just hitting me at a specific time in my life where I'm just more likely to be mad at things. Like, I feel like there was effort put into this. This isn't like a cheap cash grab garbage musical, but it's just

[45:03] Andrew DeWolf: No, it's just not good. I agree with you. But it's also two famous people thinking they can walk into the musical theater world and then realizing that it's not as easy as it looks than giving up.

[45:17] Jess McInally: Yeah. Maybe you can get shopped more, but who knows.

[45:20] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, maybe. Um think of a story before you start writing a bunch of songs to it.

[45:24] Jess McInally: Yeah. Yeah. But do you know who I do think put a lot of effort into every week?

[45:29] Andrew DeWolf: Us.

[45:29] Jess McInally: Our wonderful patrons. Thank you guys for listening. Um, please follow us on iTunes Spotify Stitcher at Musicals with Cheese. Please leave us some iTunes review. Tell your friends to leave us some iTunes reviews. We want more of those. We aren't getting none as much. I know that you've all probably left one already, but if you haven't, please give us give us some ratings. It would make us look good. Oh, we're on Twitter at Cheesy Musicals. Our Patreon is Musicals with Cheese. Our Instagram is musicals with cheese. Our YouTube page is musicals with cheese. We have a Patreon only podcast, Glee with Cheese. It's a lot of fun right now. We're talking some shit about Lea Michele and you're missing out.

You really want to miss out on that? I don't think so. Um, if you want to shoot us an email about how wrong we are about Bright Star, um, just send us an email at musicaltheatrelives@gmail.com. Our title card was created by the amazing Jolene Casco. Send her some love on Instagram at Jolene Casco. Andrew, is there anything else you have left to say before we wrap this on up?

[46:22] Andrew DeWolf: Let me know if you guys want merch at heyductor.

[46:24] Jess McInally: Yes, yes. If you want merch, please shoot Andrew a tweet at Hey Doctor. And what kind of merch do you want? I want no involvement in this because this sounds like a lot of work, and I do enough fucking work on this show. God damn it.

[46:37] Andrew DeWolf: I'm gonna be on the merch back end. It's gonna be delivered directly from my house to you guys.

[46:43] Jess McInally: He's gonna iron on those logos all by himself.

[46:46] Andrew DeWolf: Oh yeah, baby. I'm keeping a hundred percent of the proceeds.

[46:51] Jess McInally: 100% of the proceeds are going to to Andrew DeWolf, the the charity of Andrew DeWolf.

[46:57] Andrew DeWolf: I'm also keeping one of the shirts because I bet you they're gonna be killer. Although I don't have a design yet. You guys are gonna have to let me know what you guys want.

[47:04] Jess McInally: Yeah. What are our wonderful catchphrases that you want? Do you want I'll color color me ISIS, Andrew's famous catch?

[47:11] Andrew DeWolf: Color me ISIS. How about uh how about something where we compare Scottish people to Irish people?

[47:19] Jess McInally: We got so much shit for that. That was a my fuck up. I'm cancelled. I'm hashtag canceled.

[47:26] Andrew DeWolf: Jess is canceled now. We're gonna have to replace him. Uh, where's Brent?

[47:29] Jess McInally: Yeah. Get Brent or Adam. Whichever one volunteers.

[47:33] Andrew DeWolf: Yep. Neither one's gonna be. Honestly, a podcast with you, Brent and Adam, I would actually listen to every week.

[47:39] Jess McInally: I would just kind of be there though. I feel like they would start, it would it would end up being too pretentious. It wouldn't be the same show.

[47:44] Andrew DeWolf: I feel like Adam would make sure you'd say things is the thing. Adam has always been very good at getting your conversation involved.

[47:51] Jess McInally: My conversation is what everyone's here for. I mean, let's be real.

[47:54] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, yeah, the show doesn't exist without Andrew. The fans I know the fans don't even want to admit it though. They like they won't even admit that.

[48:04] Jess McInally: They will admit it right now, guys. Go send Andrew some love and tell him that you wouldn't even listen to this goddamn show if Andrew wasn't here. Because I know it's true.

[48:15] Andrew DeWolf: Alright. You guys are my bright stars.

[48:19] Jess McInally: Alright, see you next time on Musicals with Cheese.