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[0:00] Jess: Hello and welcome to this extra special bonus episode of the Cheese Wheel and today I'm joined by the one and only Elizabeth Esten.

[0:33] Elizabeth Esten: Hello!

[0:34] Jess: And today we are doing something we couldn't have done in our original Musicals with Cheese form and it's part of why this gets me so excited. The spooky times are around us, are they not, Liz?

[0:44] Elizabeth Esten: They're very spooky and they're here.

[0:46] Jess: And one of the things you and I discovered doing at least 70 episodes of Patreon with Cheese is we just love horror movies. We have this deep appreciation of horror films and I'm this gives us an opportunity to actually talk about, rank, and review. And one of my favorite franchises and ones that I think has been underserved by cinema, despite a great premise, is the Nightmare on Elm Street franchise, which is 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 movies, 8 in a remake. We're not quite on 10 to make this a top 10, but we have deep opinions and deep love for this franchise and I figured let's review and rank them.

[1:26] Elizabeth Esten: Hell yeah.

[1:27] Jess: So we're gonna start from the bottom up and Liz and I have not looked at each other's lists, we do not know what the other person thinks, but let's just follow it in. Liz, I'm 100% sure that your bottom of the list is the same as my bottom of the list, so why don't you just say what your lowest worst Nightmare on Elm Street film is?

[1:47] Elizabeth Esten: Worst Nightmare on Elm Street film is the remake.

[1:49] Jess: Yes it is! I don't hate it as much as most people though, I will say.

[1:55] Elizabeth Esten: I don't think it is garbage, there's some good ideas in this.

[1:58] Jess: It has good ideas, but it is basically script salad, and if you didn't know that, you can tell.

[2:04] Elizabeth Esten: Yucky, yucky.

[2:05] Jess: Though it is fun that the writers they actually credited went on to write Arrival.

[2:09] Elizabeth Esten: Yeah that's a better movie.

[2:12] Jess: You know? It has a great cast, like Kyle Gellner, Jackie Earl Haley, Rooney Mara, Connie Britton, like this cast should have made an incredible film.

[2:22] Elizabeth Esten: Yeah, Kyle Gellner's having an amazing past couple years, so this should have been better.

[2:28] Jess: Yeah, it really should have been a lot of things, and it wasn't. I think it just came out, I think if this came out like even like three years later, it would have been significantly improved. Like 2010 was just a nightmare, no pun intended, time for any films to come out.

[2:42] Elizabeth Esten: Yeah, but like also like the people that made this movie clearly wanted to be more shocking, so they included the whole Freddy's a child predator thing, it's as text.

[2:54] Jess: It was incorrect choice, it's better when it's implied, so.

[2:59] Elizabeth Esten: And I hate the fact, okay, the one interesting thing which, I don't think it works, but it is like okay, you're doing something different, is they make it a mystery of whether or not Freddy actually did this and he was getting revenge. It feels like it's taking an influence from the Treehouse of Horror episode where Willy gets revenge on the parents.

[3:16] Jess: Yeah, but it's still dumb.

[3:20] Elizabeth Esten: And basically this film's like, we didn't know, we were just saying anything, we were kids, and then it turns out, oh yeah, they 100% were.

[3:27] Jess: Yeah, but that also implies a children lie about sexual abuse. This movie didn't think about its implications very much.

[3:34] Elizabeth Esten: I am aware, but this movie's bad.

[3:37] Jess: I wish it was better, like it should be better. It was a box office hit making $117 million on a budget of $35 million. Do you know how bad it is? Because, you know, this is Platinum Dooms, Michael Bay's company, they also did, but I also kind of like their Friday the 13th remake.

[3:56] Elizabeth Esten: Oh, I was gonna say, Friday the 13th remake, the remake of Friday the 13th kind of slaps.

[4:01] Jess: Like, I enjoyed the hell out of that.

[4:02] Elizabeth Esten: And we're not talking about that lady's titties.

[4:04] Jess: Yeah, oh god, I hate that scene.

[4:07] Elizabeth Esten: One of the worst sex scenes ever put on to a screen.

[4:10] Jess: But it surpasses bad into funny about like a minute in, you're like, oh my, this is camp.

[4:17] Elizabeth Esten: And you know what? They were too afraid to make a Nightmare on Elm Street camp.

[4:23] Jess: Also, Freddy is basically Rorschach from Watchmen, but that's a different story.

[4:27] Elizabeth Esten: He also looks like a little kitty. He looks like two cats from Cats.

[4:32] Jess: Anyway, let's move on.

[4:34] Elizabeth Esten: All right, the next one, I'm fairly sure you and I line up on. Is it Freddy's Dead?

[4:38] Jess: Absolutely.

[4:40] Elizabeth Esten: Freddy's Dead, the final nightmare, unless you're ignoring some other things.

[4:46] Jess: We talked about this in our recent Cheese Wheel episode. Somehow it came up.

[4:50] Elizabeth Esten: Oh, because I think you mentioned the director of...

[4:54] Jess: Rachel Halle.

[4:55] Elizabeth Esten: Rachel Halle. We mentioned her somehow. Yeah.

[4:57] Jess: I'm friends with her on Facebook somehow.

[5:01] Elizabeth Esten: Like, it's not like I've interacted with her, but she is in my friends list.

[5:04] Jess: Yeah, Emily Clark keeps coming up on my you should friend list, and I'm like, OK.

[5:08] Elizabeth Esten: You should do it. Emily will probably accept you.

[5:10] Jess: That's true, but I've never actually spoken to her.

[5:13] Elizabeth Esten: You haven't?

[5:14] Jess: No.

[5:15] Elizabeth Esten: I don't know why that feels like something that should have happened.

[5:18] Jess: Probably by now.

[5:21] Elizabeth Esten: This movie is campy Freddy, but they kind of cranked it a little too far.

[5:25] Jess: Yeah, I mean, the director, she got her start in John Waters' productions, so she clearly is going off that kind of style.

[5:36] Elizabeth Esten: But it's not working.

[5:38] Jess: And she basically made Freddy Krueger Bugs Bunny, which doesn't work.

[5:42] Elizabeth Esten: She's been in the Nightmare franchise forever. She was like working on the VFX as far as the first four films.

[5:50] Jess: Yeah, she was she was on early through the series, and she did a lot of good behind the scenes stuff. But my God, what was she thinking?

[5:57] Elizabeth Esten: This movie just feels like meandering. It feels like it's what I imagined the early 90s felt like. Like when I watched this, I'm like, this is just what it felt like to exist in the early 90s in that kind of gross way, not in that nostalgic way.

[6:13] Jess: Yeah, also not to spoil future Freddy related deaths. This is the worst Freddy death of all time of the original run of the series.

[6:21] Elizabeth Esten: And it's the last one we're supposed to see.

[6:24] Jess: So his last words were kids.

[6:27] Elizabeth Esten: Yeah.

[6:27] Jess: And then the then the fucking Billy Zane sister is like, Freddy's dead. And it's like cue the guitar music.

[6:36] Elizabeth Esten: It's bad.

[6:38] Jess: The way we're describing it makes it sound like it's funny, but it is not.

[6:42] Elizabeth Esten: It is not.

[6:43] Jess: In the opening, the main male character, whose name is literally John Doe, they never name him. Freddy shows up as the Wicked Witch of the West.

[6:51] Elizabeth Esten: See, that sounds great. We're making it sound great on paper. But when you watch it, it's painful.

[6:57] Jess: He also beats Johnny Depp with a frying pan.

[6:59] Elizabeth Esten: He also uses a fake power glove because Nintendo won't give them the sponsorship.

[7:05] Jess: OK, maybe maybe this film deserves a second chance.

[7:09] Elizabeth Esten: Not to mention the video game death of Breckenmire.

[7:13] Jess: Maybe I'm you know what? I'm flipping this because I remember much more about this than I do my next one. So my second worst nightmare is technically Freddy versus Jason.

[7:24] Elizabeth Esten: OK, I respect it.

[7:26] Jess: My my seventh worst nightmare is Freddy versus Jason.

[7:30] Elizabeth Esten: Really, that's it.

[7:30] Jess: That's far up your list.

[7:32] Elizabeth Esten: It's it's it's number seven.

[7:35] Jess: OK, so I'm just going up the list. So my next one is Freddy versus Jason. What's yours?

[7:43] Elizabeth Esten: My next was Freddy versus Jason.

[7:44] Jess: OK, let's talk about Freddy versus Jason.

[7:45] Elizabeth Esten: We just flopped it.

[7:46] Jess: So mine is a nightmare remake, Freddy versus Jason and Freddy's dead.

[7:51] Elizabeth Esten: Yeah, so Freddy versus Jason.

[7:53] Jess: Freddy versus Jason, which is fine.

[7:54] Elizabeth Esten: No, it is.

[7:56] Jess: It's mediocre as fuck.

[7:57] Elizabeth Esten: No, it's not even me. It's boring.

[8:00] Jess: Yeah, it's really dull.

[8:02] Elizabeth Esten: That's the reason why I flopped it is like, you know what? I'm remembering a lot of things that made me feel something in Freddy's dead. Whereas I think about Freddy versus Jason and I feel nothing.

[8:11] Jess: I also give Freddy's dead a little bit of credit in the the the Carlos's death with the ear with the hearing aid exploding. That was sick.

[8:20] Elizabeth Esten: And it's also kind of that fun, kind of like goofy Freddy in the good way. This Freddy was goofy at this point. Now, by Nightmare Five, he's becoming a comic character and he's wrapped with the fat boys. So like, you know, he's kind of absurd.

[8:34] Jess: So this movie, like it's so early 2000s.

[8:39] Elizabeth Esten: Oh, God, it's so bad.

[8:41] Jess: It makes me feel ill.

[8:42] Elizabeth Esten: The blue tint on everything.

[8:45] Jess: Oh, God, not like not to like dog the cast. But my God, some of y'all you're so no.

[8:52] Elizabeth Esten: Some of y'all are so boring.

[8:53] Jess: This was directed by Ronnie Yu, who did not do many other films in America outside of this.

[9:01] Elizabeth Esten: The biggest claim to fame that isn't this is Bride of Chucky.

[9:05] Jess: And you know where I know him from?

[9:08] Elizabeth Esten: What?

[9:09] Jess: A film called The Phantom Lover, which is an adaptation of the Phantom of the Opera.

[9:14] Elizabeth Esten: That's awful.

[9:15] Jess: With like Romeo and Juliet, like sprinkles.

[9:19] Elizabeth Esten: OK, OK.

[9:20] Jess: My fear. The only thing I know about Ronnie Yu is I watched the documentary Never Sleep Again. And they talk about Freddy's. They talk about Nightmare Freddy's Jason a lot in the back. And most of it is ready going like, I don't know what I'm doing. I just I was told these people have to fight. Let's go.

[9:35] Elizabeth Esten: I respect that, though.

[9:37] Jess: I don't like cool. But he didn't cast Kane Hodder, which he should have. But he wanted Jason to be extra tall. So there's some interesting things.

[9:44] Elizabeth Esten: And Robert Englund is trying God. God bless him.

[9:48] Jess: He's trying so hard.

[9:49] Elizabeth Esten: Bless Robert Englund's soul in terms of him attempting to make this movie good.

[9:55] Jess: Did you notice Evangeline Lilly in a walk on high school student role?

[10:00] Elizabeth Esten: No.

[10:01] Jess: Anti-vaxxer galore. Evangeline Lilly.

[10:03] Elizabeth Esten: No, I don't. I don't remember this movie.

[10:06] Jess: There's some wacky kind of like and then you have the Jay and Silent Bob like knockoff character that's so bad that even Never Sleep Again makes the joke.

[10:14] Elizabeth Esten: Yeah.

[10:15] Jess: And then Zach Ward from Titus and A Christmas Story is just a dead brother.

[10:22] Elizabeth Esten: There's some interesting ideas going on here.

[10:25] Jess: But man, this this movie just makes me feel gross.

[10:28] Elizabeth Esten: Also, the Dead Brothers only in like deleted scenes.

[10:30] Jess: So he's not he's not in the proper cut.

[10:33] Elizabeth Esten: Is he not? Have I only ever seen the director's cut?

[10:35] Jess: You've only ever seen the director's cut.

[10:37] Elizabeth Esten: Damn.

[10:38] Jess: Yeah, because he's not in the proper cut of the movie.

[10:40] Elizabeth Esten: I've seen the scene you're talking about, but it's in a deleted deleted scene.

[10:44] Jess: Well, I have egg on my face.

[10:46] Elizabeth Esten: Don't.

[10:47] Jess: Yes.

[10:48] Elizabeth Esten: Kelly Rowland is very funny.

[10:50] Jess: But man, when she just drops the F slur at Freddie.

[10:52] Elizabeth Esten: Yeah, this this movie went through a lot of rewrites if you couldn't tell.

[10:57] Jess: It feels like it was never fully written.

[11:00] Elizabeth Esten: Yeah, they're gonna do Freddie versus Jason versus Ash if this did well enough and Robert Englund came back.

[11:05] Jess: But they're like, man, we're good.

[11:07] Elizabeth Esten: I'd watch that, though.

[11:09] Jess: That's very 2004, and I would have watched it.

[11:13] Liz: Like, in a post-Sean of the Dead world, imagine if they got Edgar Wright right after Sean of the Dead. He wouldn't do it. He would never do that, but that would have been sick.

[11:23] Jess: All right, here's where I think our diversions are gonna be really intense.

[11:27] Liz: Yeah, things are gonna start to change here.

[11:29] Jess: Okay, so my next up is Nightmare on Elm Street 4.

[11:36] Liz: What?!

[11:36] Jess: Yeah.

[11:37] Liz: Are you kidding me?!

[11:39] Jess: Nope.

[11:40] Liz: All right, you are a Lisa Wilcox hater.

[11:43] Jess: I don't hate her. Honestly, this movie just felt like such a middle finger to everyone who liked Nightmare on Elm Street 3. The first opening half hour just makes me so angry that it's hard for me to enjoy anything. The main character of the previous film, as played by a different actor, is murdered in the first 10 minutes on a beach with Freddie wearing sunglasses.

[12:08] Liz: Yeah. I am a defender of Nightmare 4, but I'm not gonna talk about that one for a little bit.

[12:15] Jess: That's fine. But I needed to say why I didn't love this one, and why this one kind of... It's one I've always struggled with, despite... And it's like Freddie officially kind of stepping into goofball territory. And it's all so brightly lit. None of it's spooky. Nothing's spooky.

[12:33] Liz: Yeah. I think also you had to kind of... Knowing the history of this franchise, they stopped making it spooky, and at a certain point you just have to accept it.

[12:41] Jess: I know.

[12:42] Liz: And that's like, whatever. Nightmare 1 is an anomaly at this point.

[12:45] Jess: I disagree a little bit, but yes. What's your spot? What's your...

[12:50] Liz: It's been flopping. I'm actually gonna give it to... I originally had something else here, but I'm actually gonna give it to the dream child, Nightmare 5.

[12:58] Jess: Okay. I'm a dream child defender.

[13:02] Liz: Look, I don't dislike the dream child. I think it has a lot of fundamental issues due to the fact it was made in less than a year after 4.

[13:11] Jess: Yeah. So was Halloween 5, and that was also terrible.

[13:15] Liz: Yeah. They made the poster before the movie was done.

[13:18] Jess: But it's got so many ideas that I love. Like the Freddie baby idea, the dream baby, the dream child, it's such a fucked up idea. And the way that it... I think it, as tastefully as this subject can be tackled, the abortion thing is actually fascinating.

[13:34] Liz: And dealing with a baby's dreams? Fucking crazy.

[13:38] Jess: Yeah. I think as a person that has watched this recently at least, I found the way they handled a lot of the pregnancy stuff odd. But I'm saying this as a person who can become pregnant.

[13:49] Liz: Yes.

[13:49] Jess: So my perspective is a little different here, especially around the abortion discussion. Like, honestly, if Freddie was haunting my friends and I discovered I was pregnant, I don't care if my poor motorcycle boyfriend was dead or not. We gotta deal with this.

[14:04] Liz: But that's just me. I think some of it's handled well, but a lot of the abstract shit at the end, it looks great, but it doesn't go anywhere.

[14:13] Jess: It's a boy!

[14:15] Liz: Okay, that's great. But it feels like the line from Nightmare 3, but the discounted version you can get on fucking the Asylum.

[14:25] Jess: Like, also, I know the history of this movie a little more, I think, and the original draft actually seemed kind of compelling.

[14:32] Liz: I can see the potentiality being frustrating.

[14:35] Jess: Yeah, I find it frustrating at times, especially with the Jacob character.

[14:40] Liz: I don't mind him, he's just kind of one note at times.

[14:45] Jess: There are some dumb shit in here. But unlike Nightmare 4, I find it kind of endearing. Like when they didn't have money to kill a character and bring Freddie back, so they just have him get killed by an invisible Freddie. Or Super Freddie showing up.

[15:00] Liz: The invisible Freddie thing's from Nightmare 4.

[15:02] Jess: Oh no, I'm sorry, yeah. But Super Freddie's definitely in this one.

[15:04] Liz: Super Freddie is definitely in Nightmare 5, and I love him.

[15:09] Jess: One of the only times it is not Robert Englund as Freddie.

[15:13] Liz: And the best part, there's a lightning thing in his sweater, because the costumer, it ripped when they put it on his body.

[15:19] Jess: I get why this movie's not good, but I have so much fun watching it, more than 4.

[15:25] Liz: I can see it, I just don't fully, like, I don't know.

[15:30] Jess: It has ambitions, but it doesn't go anywhere for me.

[15:33] Liz: That's fair enough.

[15:34] Jess: I think Nightmare 4 goes places. But I'll get to there when I get there.

[15:38] Liz: Yeah, well, mine was Nightmare 5, so that was what was next on the list. So why don't you go?

[15:43] Jess: Oh, my number 5? Okay, my number 5 is Nightmare 2, Freddie's Revenge.

[15:47] Liz: What?

[15:49] Jess: Yes.

[15:50] Liz: Okay, why? I mean, I'm kind of looking at the rest of the list, I get it now.

[15:55] Jess: Okay, Freddie's Revenge is a weird anomaly of a film.

[16:00] Liz: I agree, it's higher up my list than you think.

[16:14] Jess: It's outstanding. I love it.

[16:19] Liz: There's a game in his closet called Probe.

[16:22] Jess: There's a gym teacher that goes to a sex club.

[16:26] Liz: There's a male scream queen.

[16:28] Jess: There's a woman who was only cast because she looks like Meryl Streep.

[16:32] Liz: And boy, does she.

[16:33] Jess: And boy, does she look like Meryl Streep. Damn, good on you.

[16:37] Liz: I wish you were more successful now.

[16:40] Jess: Mark Patton is actually incredible in this film.

[16:42] Liz: Mark Patton is so good.

[16:44] Jess: He made a whole documentary about this as well, which I highly recommend, called Scream Queen.

[16:49] Liz: It's basically him dealing with the repercussions of the director not realizing he was making a gay film classic.

[16:54] Jess: And it looks like he's had a career resurgence since then, too.

[16:57] Liz: Yeah, which is good. I'm glad Mark Patton's working now.

[17:02] Jess: Yeah, so I'll go into that one a little later.

[17:06] Liz: I love Nightmare 2. It's delightful.

[17:09] Jess: Next on my list is Nightmare 3.

[17:12] Liz: On number four?

[17:13] Jess: Yeah.

[17:13] Liz: Oh, oh, eat my fucking shorts.

[17:17] Jess: I love Nightmare 3.

[17:19] Liz: It is not better than Nightmare 2.

[17:21] Jess: Not worse than Nightmare 2.

[17:23] Liz: I think it is.

[17:24] Jess: Why?

[17:25] Liz: I think this movie is kind of boring in the middle.

[17:29] Jess: Like, every time I watch it, I am so fucking into it.

[17:33] Liz: And then you get to that boring bit right in the middle, where it's just kind of like kicking rocks for a little bit.

[17:39] Jess: And we get the Judge Reinhold knockoff guy going around.

[17:43] Liz: He's like, man, who's Freddy Krueger's mom?

[17:45] Jess: And then you got the boring, all the lore dumps and all that.

[17:49] Liz: And yeah, it picks back up.

[17:51] Jess: But that is hard to get through that middle part.

[17:53] Liz: And I think that the character work, while is effective, the story is not there.

[17:59] Jess: There's some great characters here.

[18:00] Liz: It's just not that compelling.

[18:02] Jess: And yes, Freddy is spooky, but it is kind of the first start into goofy things.

[18:07] Liz: Honestly, this feels like a tone more of an Avengers film than it does a Nightmare on Elm Street film.

[18:13] Jess: Okay, I have it higher up, so.

[18:15] Liz: That's fine.

[18:15] Jess: That's fair.

[18:15] Liz: I'll get to it later.

[18:16] Jess: My number four is Dream Master, so.

[18:21] Liz: Okay, um.

[18:23] Jess: I will explain.

[18:26] Liz: So this movie is cheesy as hell.

[18:28] Jess: It was written during a writer's strike, and you can tell.

[18:31] Liz: But there's a lot of elements to it that I can't just help but laugh at.

[18:35] Jess: First of all, first, Kincaid's dog is named Jason.

[18:39] Liz: And Freddy comes back after Jason pisses fire in a dream.

[18:43] Jess: It's dumb.

[18:44] Liz: On his skeleton.

[18:45] Jess: It feels like they made it up as they go along.

[18:48] Liz: And I love that energy.

[18:50] Jess: The thing about the Nightmare franchise is it's stupid to the most entertaining degree that you could think of.

[18:55] Liz: Like, they don't think about it.

[18:58] Jess: It's so funny.

[18:59] Liz: Yeah, but that, like, especially that, like, after Nancy's, like, death and all that, like, the finality of Nightmare 3.

[19:04] Jess: I think I'd like Nightmare 3 if just the series ended there a lot more.

[19:11] Liz: Ideally, that would be, I would agree with you, honestly.

[19:14] Jess: But I think Nightmare 4 is compelling, largely because of Lisa Wilcox.

[19:19] Liz: I think her character journey, I really vibe with.

[19:22] Jess: Like, watching her go from this, like, meek little, little girl who, like, doesn't have any confidence, can't get anything done, like, blah, blah, blah.

[19:32] Liz: Sure, she gains abilities from her friends dying or whatever, which is very fucking dumb.

[19:36] Jess: But watching her grow into a strong female final girl in a way that is not conventional to the genre at this time, I love it.

[19:44] Liz: It's great.

[19:44] Jess: Like, I love Lisa Wilcox in this franchise.

[19:47] Liz: I think she's very underrated.

[19:48] Jess: I find her journey compelling, but that's me, so.

[19:51] Liz: That's fair, and you're allowed to do that.

[19:54] Jess: I didn't connect with Nightmare 4 as much as you did, sadly.

[19:58] Liz: But honestly, it just felt like, I stand by my previous thought of it just felt like a big middle finger to Nightmare 3, which I liked.

[20:05] Jess: Yeah, I get it.

[20:06] Liz: I get it.

[20:07] Jess: So, I've always struggled.

[20:08] Liz: Like, every time when the 20-minute mark hits and the Freddy Landshark shows up, I'm like, I'm done.

[20:15] Jess: I'm done with this movie.

[20:16] Liz: Yeah.

[20:17] Jess: I've finished it.

[20:17] Liz: I've watched it.

[20:18] Jess: It's fine, but man.

[20:20] Liz: When I watch it, I just think of that interview with Rennie Harlan from the documentary.

[20:23] Jess: He's like, I think it'd be cool if Freddy wore sunglasses.

[20:26] Liz: And I'm like, what?

[20:29] Jess: All right.

[20:29] Liz: Oh, Rennie Harlan.

[20:31] Jess: Also director of Die Hard 2.

[20:33] Liz: One of the worst Die Hards.

[20:35] Jess: Die Hard 3 is incredible.

[20:36] Liz: We should do a Die Hard ranking for Christmas.

[20:39] Jess: Oh, if only I remembered them.

[20:41] Liz: I've only seen one in three.

[20:44] Jess: So, I have to watch all the rest of them.

[20:45] Liz: All of them, except the one with Justin Long in it.

[20:47] Jess: That's four.

[20:49] Liz: And I think I haven't seen the one with Jai Courtney.

[20:51] Jess: So, I'm missing two.

[20:52] Liz: But I'll watch those with my dad.

[20:55] Jess: All right, my number three.

[20:56] Liz: It's Freddy's Dead.

[20:57] Jess: Or not Freddy's Dead.

[20:59] Liz: Freddy's Revenge.

[21:00] Jess: Freddy's Revenge, Nightmare 2.

[21:03] Liz: For all the same reasons you listed.

[21:04] Jess: But I love it because it is dealing with themes that you would never get to hear Freddy deal with again.

[21:08] Liz: Like sexuality and these deeply uncomfortable, gross things.

[21:15] Jess: And some incredible practical effects. When Freddy comes out of Jesse, it is fucking incredible.

[21:21] Liz: Oh, there's so many good scenes in Freddy's Revenge that we don't talk about.

[21:25] Jess: And while I love the gay stuff as much as everything else.

[21:29] Liz: But I feel like that's often like all anyone talks about.

[21:33] Jess: But Robert Englund's really putting on a terrifying performance in this movie.

[21:37] Liz: He is scary Freddy throughout.

[21:40] Jess: And it's really, really, really good.

[21:42] Liz: And like the scene where he is like setting children on fire at a party.

[21:46] Jess: And he's like, come to me my children.

[21:49] Liz: Like some of the most greatest of all time Freddy moments are in this movie.

[21:54] Jess: And I feel like people just don't talk about it.

[21:57] Liz: Oh my lore.

[21:58] Jess: Fuck your lore.

[22:00] Liz: I have an issue with that scene because of the lore.

[22:05] Jess: It just causes implications that don't come up again.

[22:09] Liz: It's weird.

[22:10] Jess: I don't, I just don't like the pool scene at all.

[22:12] Liz: Frankly, I think it's kind of distracting.

[22:14] Jess: I love the pool scene.

[22:16] Liz: I heard it.

[22:18] Jess: Also, I find it odd her dad is making food for her drunk high school friends.

[22:23] Liz: That's not odd to me. That's odd to me.

[22:28] Jess: That seems like something my father-in-law would do. Like, it's very, very similar to things my father-in-law did do.

[22:36] Liz: Oh god, okay. My number three is Dream Warriors.

[22:41] Jess: Fair enough. Go on about why you love it. I feel like that's not a controversial take.

[22:46] Liz: No, it's not a controversial take. This is probably considered the best of the sequels, besides one other one, probably. This is an all-timer for Freddy. It has some of his most iconic moments and some of the most iconic performances of the series. Heather Langenkamp is putting her whole ass into this movie, and it's incredible. She's so good in this. Also, Lawrence Fishburne is in it, credited as Larry Fishburne, which I just find funny.

[23:13] Jess: That's back in his Pee-wee's Playhouse days.

[23:15] Liz: Yeah, that's back when he was like Cowboy Curtis. I love the character journeys. I love how they come together. I love the Avengers vibes from this. It's just so fucking cheesy. I love it. It's very 80s action vibe. I love it. The I'm bad and beautiful scene.

[23:34] Jess: I love her mohawk.

[23:37] Liz: I love her costume. She also just wore it to lunch all the time. Eating spaghetti while wearing that fucking costume.

[23:46] Jess: And Freddy's amazing in this. This is where Welcome to Primetime Bitch originates, which is considered an all-timer, and Robert Englund came up with that himself. That was not in the script. It had a version, but it wasn't in the script fully.

[23:57] Liz: I mean, it doesn't make as much sense as the line, because he starts with like, It's your big break in TV. Wait, then he breaks her face into the TV. But Welcome to Primetime Bitch, not as clean. It feels improvised in a positive way. It feels like organically, I'm going to fucking murder you. Like, hell, yeah, I love it. Also, we haven't mentioned this. The Dokken song.

[24:18] Jess: Oh, yeah, that is that is great.

[24:24] Liz: Literally, we recently for the Jim Carrey podcast, I only brought someone brought up Nightmare 3 only and I only brought it up so I could put the Dokken song into the episode. So it's great. Yeah, I had to. I could not. I had to.

[24:38] Jess: But yeah, I love Nightmare 3. It's a great character study. I think there are weak points. I agree with you. The bit where the doctor is looking for Freddie's mom is kind of clunky, but I like how it dives into religion, which is also what I don't love about it. Like, I love stopping Freddie. Come on. I love that it does that. I was raised Catholic, so maybe that's why. But I love like when horror movies like infuse religion and like satanic shit into stuff like it's great. I enjoy that part. Also, Freddie's mom, the nun with the actor. She's great.

[25:10] Liz: Yeah, she she has a great look to her. I love her spooky, like creepy pasta vibe. She's just like a creepy nun who's like around town and everyone ignores her. Like, oh, Amanda Kruger. Oh, we don't we don't talk about her.

[25:23] Jess: This movie ends on such a whimpery fucking note, though.

[25:27] Liz: I don't care. This is John Saxon's last movie.

[25:32] Jess: No, it isn't in the franchise besides the other one.

[25:35] Liz: As Lieutenant Thompson.

[25:37] Jess: Yes, it is. I was like, no, it ain't.

[25:40] Liz: I know. As Lieutenant Thompson, this is his last movie.

[25:44] Jess: Yes, that is correct.

[25:45] Liz: And that death was very impactful. I enjoyed that scene a lot.

[25:48] Jess: I mean, it would be more impactful if Nancy didn't just die right afterwards.

[25:52] Liz: Yeah, but like Nancy had to die.

[25:55] Jess: Yes, she did. All right. My next one, my number two.

[25:59] Liz: OK, go controversial choice. The original Nightmare on Elm Street.

[26:05] Jess: I honestly I was going to say the same thing.

[26:09] Liz: Yes, this movie is perfect. Like, let's be clear, this movie is incredible. One of the greatest horror films ever made.

[26:15] Jess: Yeah, it does not scare me and it does not freak me out nearly as much as my number one. And that is the main reason.

[26:22] Liz: But it's like I ripped so many things off from this movie for my movie. I can tell someone literally is like, you know what? The only film that your movie reminds me of is Nightmare on Elm Street, the original. And I was like, thank you. That is that is the vibe I'm going for.

[26:37] Jess: This movie is an all-timer. It's like one of us, probably one of Wes Craven's best movies. I don't know. Wes Craven keeps reinventing the horror genre every 10 years. And I wonder, I wish he had lived 20 years. Like, imagine what he'd be doing like nowadays.

[26:53] Liz: Oh, he'd probably be doing some really good stuff.

[26:54] Jess: He'd be doing some shit mixed in. Let me be clear, he'd be making some garbage. Wes Craven is not a consistent man.

[27:01] Liz: No, but like he will do something that might change the world.

[27:05] Jess: Yeah, like look up Deadly Friend, which he made in 1985. Did you ever watch his werewolf movie?

[27:11] Liz: Oh, Cursed?

[27:11] Jess: Yes.

[27:12] Liz: I've been meaning to, but I heard it's so bad.

[27:14] Jess: And it's so 2000s, I never got to it.

[27:16] Liz: It's really bad. But with an incredible cast of like Christina Ricci, Jesse Eisenberg, Judy Greer, Scott Baio.

[27:23] Jess: I watched Jane Mulcahy's video on it a while back, which I'd like know about the production of it now. And it's like, wow, this sounds insane.

[27:29] Liz: Yeah, request that on the wheel.

[27:34] Jess: Yeah, request that in the wheel, y'all. I ain't watching it unless I'm being forced to.

[27:38] Liz: Yeah, I'm not putting it on the wheel. Like there are some of the most iconic shots in film history in this movie, the bathtub shot. Like honestly, even that the claws between the legs is creepy enough. But what always fucked with me is the giant gaping water hole that she's pulled into. And she has only the hole to swim back up to. Like that, that. Or like Freddy pushing himself through the wall.

[28:03] Jess: So subtle while she's sleeping. It's just a mannequin and like a polyfill like wall that's like squishy. That's it. That's all it was. And it was so effective.

[28:10] Liz: The performances aren't incredible. Like obviously, like it's a it's it's it's a it's an independent ish like cheapo movie. New Line was still kind of starting out. This is back when New Line was traveling to theaters and screening John Waters movies at local theaters for cash. It wasn't making Lord of the Rings yet. We're struggling right now in New Line Cinema. And they just got the script and they're like, can we do it for cheap?

[28:39] Jess: Yeah.

[28:41] Liz: And then it's got some cool shit like the house being upside down and practical effects. So like if you're listening to this, you've definitely seen this movie. So what's the point of me telling you it?

[28:50] Jess: Yeah, you definitely seen it. I find some of the bits at the end weird, like this pancake mix stair scene.

[28:58] Liz: I love the pancake mix stair scene.

[29:00] Jess: I don't like it because I know it's Bisquick. The texture always fucked with me, but in a way that felt like, oh, that would be like, I'm imagining me being in Nancy's position and what that would look like. And I'm like, oh, yeah, that's true. Also, the tacked on ending. How else could you?

[29:18] Liz: I don't know, but they ended it on a way that they could get a sequel. Bob Shea is not an artistic man.

[29:27] Jess: The blow up doll is very funny.

[29:28] Liz: Well, it's very comical. What's yours? Is it also Nightmare on Elm Street? The original?

[29:33] Jess: Yes, yes.

[29:34] Liz: So our number ones are also or both. Man, we're basic bitches. Look, New Nightmare is such an anomaly of a film, and I love everything about it in a good way.

[29:46] Jess: A better version of Scream.

[29:47] Liz: It's like really good Scream. Honestly, it's a better version of Scream 3. Let me put it that way.

[29:52] Jess: It's what Scream 3 should have been.

[29:55] Liz: This film, for those of you that have not taken your step into New Nightmare, it is not a proper sequel to Nightmare on Elm Street. It is about the actors playing themselves being haunted by Freddy Krueger and fucking bonkers.

[30:10] Jess: But it has some of the most horrific Freddy imagery. And yeah, his face looks a little funky, but I like that about it.

[30:17] Liz: Yeah, like this is like a mild spoiler. Basically, the idea of New Nightmare, for those you don't know, of Freddy is actually a real life demon that was haunting Wes Craven. And the only way to keep him at bay was to keep making Nightmare movies, which is funny to think about because Wes Craven only wrote two of them. So don't think about that too hard.

[30:40] Jess: But, you know, it's a really good it's a very solid premise. Can they stop making movies by 94? So like he's at he's going to kill someone. It's such a great concept. Perfectly executed, if you ask me. And so good. This is also Heather Lane Camp's best movie.

[30:55] Liz: Yeah, I don't know.

[30:56] Jess: And in life. So she's very good at this movie. The only ridiculous part is that they portray her as a working actor of some sort. Just funny because now she just co-owns a VFX company with her husband. Her husband is a real life VFX artist, as represented in the movie.

[31:10] Liz: Yeah, but he doesn't look like that. Look, he has a big ass beard and like wears flannels. He looks like he could beat you up.

[31:20] Jess: That being said, the scene where she has to identify her husband's body is one of the most horrific scenes in a Nightmare on Elm Street movie. Heartbreaking. Like this movie is willing to be a really disgusting, mean movie. And I love it. Like like the main person who's going to die at the end is a child. And that that horrible Freddy demon dimension. Ah, so much cool shit. There's just so much little shit in that set, too. That's so good. If you like, just watch it 8000 times. Like, oh, New Nightmare is so good. And it's like the one I probably watch the most out of all these. It's the one I want to rewatch the most just to see if I pick up something. Also, I want to wreck stuffed animals so badly. I want the one post rip. Like I want the stuffing sticking out.

[32:08] Liz: Yeah, I'm going to a horror convention soon. And I every time I go, I hope someone makes like a Rex recreation. I can get for not that expensive.

[32:14] Jess: I feel like this film just gets hidden in the shadow of Scream. Like that's the problem with it.

[32:19] Liz: Yeah, it's a definitely it's a fully a scream precursor. You can see a lot of scream stuff in there and be like, oh, it was the original scream.

[32:27] Jess: No, it's it's it's a test of scream, but it's better than a lot of the scream sequels.

[32:32] Liz: Yeah, which are some of them are not good. We could do scream rank, too.

[32:37] Jess: Hey, we're doing that next week, kids.

[32:39] Liz: Yeah, I think that's a ranking. Do you agree or disagree with us on our Nightmare on Elm Street rankings? Let us know in the comments below. And until next time, thank you for joining us for this extra special spooky bonus episode. Liz, that was a great time. I hope you had fun.

[32:56] Liz: Hell yeah. Let's go.

[32:59] Jess: All right. We'll see you next time, kids.

[33:01] Liz: Bye, kids.