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[0:30] Jesse McAnally: Hello, I'm Jesse McAnally.

[0:39] Andrew DeWolf: And I'm Andrew DeWolf.

[0:41] Liz Esten: And I'm Liz Esten.

[0:42] Jesse McAnally: And welcome to the Cheese Wheel Podcast, the hyperfixation podcast where our topics are gambled.

[0:50] Liz Esten: And we're in ooky spooky season now.

[0:54] Andrew DeWolf: I'm scared.

[0:56] Liz Esten: I'm so scared.

[0:57] Jesse McAnally: As you should be.

[0:59] Andrew DeWolf: Not because of anything generally.

[1:02] Liz Esten: It's just spooky because election season's coming up.

[1:07] Jesse McAnally: Go vote.

[1:08] Andrew DeWolf: Right now.

[1:09] Liz Esten: Go vote, please.

[1:10] Jesse McAnally: Go vote for Harris Walz.

[1:12] Andrew DeWolf: Go vote for Harris Walz.

[1:13] Jesse McAnally: I can't endorse anyone.

[1:15] Andrew DeWolf: I'm allowed to, though.

[1:16] Liz Esten: Yeah.

[1:17] Jesse McAnally: Do your own research.

[1:19] Andrew DeWolf: Do your own research.

[1:20] Jesse McAnally: And listening to me counts as research.

[1:24] Liz Esten: Is this a political podcast now?

[1:26] Jesse McAnally: Yes, yes.

[1:27] Liz Esten: I'm so sorry, Liz.

[1:28] Jesse McAnally: This week was one of Liz's choices.

[1:31] Jesse McAnally: And that is of the 1979 Ridley Scott joint, Alien.

[1:37] Liz Esten: Now, Liz, why did you pick this film?

[1:39] Liz Esten: I just love Alien. It's one of those movies my dad made me watch, which is like a classic dad thing to do, you know? But I fucking loved it. And I ended up watching the whole series with him together, except for Romulus, which I watched without him in theaters. But I've seen all these movies. I love Alien. This movie's so good. It's my favorite of the whole series. It's the perfect sci-fi horror. Characters are great. I just love this movie. And I think everyone should fucking watch it if you haven't. It's so good. I feel like we're all basically on the same page of this movie, where if fucks and honks, we love it. I don't see any faults with it. I think this film's great. It's the best movie in the series.

There's not really any other movies in the series that really even live up to it. There's this Alien-Aliens debate, which I... It's Alien. There's no debate. It's not Aliens. It's Alien. We'll get this out of the way right away, because I don't want to dwell on it too long. But if you think Aliens is a better movie, you're just wrong. You are just objectively incorrect. Aliens is a really good action movie, but it's not the best Alien movie. I think that, in my opinion, this is me having my big take. I don't even think Aliens is in the conversation for second best. I think Alien 3 is my second favorite and probably the closest to the same tone and vibe that I love about Aliens.

[3:08] Andrew DeWolf: Which cut are you referring to of Aliens?

[3:10] Liz Esten: The editor's cut.

[3:12] Liz Esten: The assembly cut. Not the theatrical cut, which most people will watch. I will say the theatrical cut is still better than Aliens, in my opinion. I think people don't like Alien 3 because if they only liked Aliens, Alien 3 is just like, yeah, everybody died. Ha ha. And I love that! That's my shit! But it's like, dude, it's a horror series. What did you want to happen? They go skip away into the field. It's a fucking horror movie. People die.

[3:41] Jesse McAnally: In case you haven't picked up the very obviously thing we're throwing down, we're talking about Alien and now cue the greatest movie trailer ever made.

[4:40] Jesse McAnally: So Alien is a film written by Dan O'Bannon and a bunch of other people, but Dan O'Bannon's the only officially credited screenwriter. Directed by Ridley Scott, based by a story by Dan O'Bannon and Ronald Shusett. Alien premiered May 25th, 1979, the opening night for the 4th Seattle International Film Festival. It received a wide release on June 22nd and released on September 6th in the UK. It received mixed reviews, but won the Academy Award for Best Visual Effects and three Saturn Awards and a Hugo Award for Best Dramatic Presentation. Alien grossed $78.9 million in the US and $7.8 million in the UK during its first theatrical run. Its worldwide gross to date has been an estimated $104 million and $203 million, somewhere in there. The plot of Alien is, after investigating a mysterious transmission of unknown origin, the crew of a commercial spacecraft encounters a deadly life form.

[5:50] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, we're now in the period of our show, which lasts for two consecutive episodes, because next week we're going, we're wilding out just again. Where we're just talking about things that are perfect.

[6:05] Liz Esten: Yeah, this is perfect.

[6:08] Jesse McAnally: Can I just quickly say, it's always crazy. You're looking at the history of something that's basically considered a perfect fucking movie or a perfect piece of art, and it's always just like, when it came out, reviews were mixed to negative. It's like, broly, how has this always happened?

[6:29] Andrew DeWolf: I think, I mean, is that the case nowadays? Because I feel like folks are much quicker to pick up something that is of high quality now than they were back then.

[6:41] Liz Esten: Maybe that's just me hoping that we are more educated and more thematically literate, but maybe not.

[6:47] Andrew DeWolf: I think we just haven't made it to the point where ten years from now people are going to be like, remember that movie from 2004? That was like a perfect movie. And we're going to look back and be like, oh, I've never heard of that.

[7:03] Jesse McAnally: I mean, Liz, as far as you know, you like a lot of films. Are we just grading on a curve because so few films as good as Alien comes out anymore?

[7:13] Liz Esten: I don't know. I just think there's a difference between this movie and any, in the case of the Alien series, time and technology have changed how they're made. A lot has changed over the years. Prometheus is very 2012. This is very 1979. Aliens is very 1980. Alien, in terms of that series, evolves with the time. In terms of general movies, movies are just ever-changing mediums. I feel like we're just nostalgic for a time that doesn't exist anymore. A time with practical computers and weird green typing on black screens that doesn't exist anymore.

[8:03] Andrew DeWolf: That's a style that is, what do they call that? It's like analog.

[8:07] Liz Esten: Analog technology, yeah. It's like when that Alien video game came out with all the analog technology, everyone loved it because it reminds them of something they love.

[8:18] Andrew DeWolf: Well, no, that game everyone loved because it was like playing through the fucking this movie.

[8:23] Liz Esten: Yeah, it was just like this movie. All the best Alien movies are influenced by this movie. Romulus, the most recent one, is technically a direct sequel to this movie and feels very much of this movie but modern. That's not a negative in this case. I think they pull it off pretty well. There's some flaws, obviously, but they pull it off pretty well.

[8:42] Andrew DeWolf: I haven't seen 90% of the Alien sequels. I think I stopped at three. Prometheus looks to me like it's way too high-minded and pretentious to be a good Alien movie.

[8:58] Liz Esten: What I love about Alien is until the Alien shows up, which is like an hour into the fucking movie, all they talk about is how they want to go home and how they want to get a bonus. Am I getting paid for this? It's so blue-collar. This is a commercial ship, not a rescue ship. It's not my contract to do this kind of duty. What about the money? If you want to give me some money, I'd be happy to. Let's go over the bonus situation. Let's talk about the bonus situation. Let's talk about the bonus situation.

[9:36] Andrew DeWolf: The trailers for Prometheus look like they're going to be talking about the meaning of life and shit.

[9:42] Liz Esten: Oh, they are. I don't think that's what Alien's about, man. I'm going to be real. To copy what other people have said, it's about space truckers.

[9:50] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, Alien is about space truckers. That's the problem with the other sequels. They're about scientists and war generals. It's like, no, no, no. I want space trucker vibes.

[10:02] Liz Esten: Not to take us into a wild territory, but have either of you seen Dark Star?

[10:10] Andrew DeWolf: No.

[10:12] Liz Esten: Do either of you know what it is?

[10:14] Andrew DeWolf: No.

[10:16] Jesse McAnally: Absolutely not. I don't know the fucking Dark Star.

[10:20] Liz Esten: I'm going to take you, Ray, into this kind of territory directed by John Carpenter, his USC school friend. I know you both are John Carpenter fans or at least appreciators. This film, Alien is a remake of this film without hyperbole.

[10:34] Andrew DeWolf: Okay.

[10:36] Liz Esten: It is the future. Mankind has conquered the stars. He moves out to the endless interstellar reaches of the universe. An advanced exploration core. A new breed of pioneer must seek out unstable planets and destroy them. Like, that film is about a giant balloon alien that kills off an entire trucking crew in space. And then he just took that and then submitted that for Alien. And a bunch of other people made it what it is, the dark kind of thing. The only thing that is similar to what Dan O'Bannon really kind of brought to the table with Alien is the chestburster scene. They bought basically that scene and wrote an entirely different script around it, but kept the trucker vibe. And if you watch Dark Star and Alien next to each other, aesthetically, they're very similar.

Character-wise, you can kind of see the one-to-one, and there is an alien that's killing off people one by one in it. And it's wild to think that this student film exists with so many important people, and then inspires one of the most monumental films of the 20th century. So that's pretty interesting.

[11:52] Andrew DeWolf: I did not know about this movie.

[11:56] Liz Esten: I guess, I mean, this is a student film, you say? Is that actually true?

[12:00] Liz Esten: A student film directed by John Carpenter, though!

[12:04] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, it's got a cool-looking cover.

[12:06] Liz Esten: Yeah, it does have a cool cover. It's not a great movie. It's more of a comedy. It really is a parody of an Alien slasher. And then they made an Alien slasher that's sort of based on it. It's fascinating to think that that is where this kind of roots from.

[12:22] Liz Esten: How old were you when you guys first watched Alien?

[12:26] Andrew DeWolf: So, you know what's funny? Before I ever actually watched Alien ever, my family used to go to fucking Disney World all the fucking time.

[12:42] Andrew DeWolf: Part of the great movie ride at Disney MGM Studios. There was a really scary scene where they drove you through the Nostromo and you see Ripley cowering in a corner and the alien comes down from the vents above the ride vehicle. And this was my first ever anything with alien. It was that. Before I've seen the movie, before I've seen anything. In 1979, director Ridley Scott and Sigourney Weaver made audiences believe that in space, no one can hear you scream. This is an alien scream. I don't like the sound of that. They tore that ride out and put in some Mickey Mouse garbage.

[12:50] Liz Esten: Oh, that's so sad. I'm sure it's fine, but I like the great movie ride, so.

[12:57] Andrew DeWolf: You never answered my question. How old were you when you watched Alien?

[13:00] Liz Esten: Probably like 15.

[13:01] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, that's old. That's older than I expected. What about you, Liz?

[13:04] Liz Esten: I was probably in high school. I'm probably like 16 because I think all through high school, I was like slowly watching these movies with my dad because I bought him the alien collection for Father's Day slash his birthday, and we just were circling through them for a few years. Probably 16 range.

[13:10] Andrew DeWolf: I think I was too early. I think I was like 11.

[13:12] Liz Esten: Oh, God.

[13:13] Andrew DeWolf: And I watched this and Aliens back to back with like my dad and my brother. And it was good. It was those are that's a great double feature. That's a good evening.

[13:18] Jesse McAnally: Yeah. Unlike long legs and trap.

[13:20] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, both both of it. I mean, they kind of are like long legs and trap where Aliens is kind of this goofy comedic action film where Alien is like this really brooding takes its time. That is actually a very similar thing.

[13:29] Liz Esten: Yeah, that actually is. If you watch them back to back, though, the pacing kind of works because Alien is like really slow, but then it picks up a lot at the ending. And then you just continue that through with Aliens.

[13:39] Andrew DeWolf: Both of those films have God awful director's cuts. I really think the director's cut of both of those films are significantly.

[13:44] Jesse McAnally: Oh, my God. The director's cut of Alien adds in that like weird, like deleted scene where they find all the people like in webbing and shit.

[13:51] Liz Esten: Oh, they do. I haven't seen that.

[13:52] Andrew DeWolf: It just kind of ruins it. It's like the alien kills them. The alien kills them. Like, what the fuck?

[13:58] Liz Esten: It makes the alien less threatening.

[14:01] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, it's like, well, wait. So if we knew about this, you could have saved them, I guess.

[14:06] Jesse McAnally: I guess we have to talk about H.R. Giger's weird penis vagina obsessed designs.

[14:11] Liz Esten: I love it.

[14:12] Jesse McAnally: Well, I find the designs incredible, like you probably do, too, Liz. The only negative is just the impact it's had on sci-fi and filmmaking since then, where everyone's just ripping it off.

[14:20] Liz Esten: Yeah, that is the downside. And eventually Cycle itself ripped its own self off in Alien 4.

[14:25] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, yeah, yeah, you're right.

[14:27] Liz Esten: Yeah, the weird human alien hybrid that clone Ripley has.

[14:31] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, yes, I now remember.

[14:33] Jesse McAnally: You see what I mean?

[14:34] Liz Esten: Yeah, but I love that.

[14:36] Andrew DeWolf: Don't defend Alien Resurrection. It's so bad.

[14:39] Liz Esten: Alien Resurrection is not the worst alien film was the only defense I was giving it.

[14:43] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, it's not, but it's still really bad.

[14:45] Jesse McAnally: Which one's worse?

[14:46] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, Alien Covenant. It's so boring.

[14:48] Liz Esten: Oh, Alien Covenant's boring?

[14:50] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, it's so boring. I don't remember anything in it.

[14:53] Jesse McAnally: I got a feeling-

[14:54] Liz Esten: Do you guys count AVP?

[14:55] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I count AVP. That was gonna be the big one where I'm like-

[14:58] Liz Esten: Oh, I don't count AVP, but I haven't seen it.

[15:00] Andrew DeWolf: If you guys- if you count AVP, I feel like both of those are the worst.

[15:04] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, I mean, I don't think Romulus- Romulus is in the top four, three for me.

[15:08] Liz Esten: Really? Okay.

[15:09] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I liked Romulus a lot.

[15:11] Liz Esten: I feel like it's just not gonna be for me. I've heard what happens and I'm like, that doesn't sound like it's for me.

[15:15] Andrew DeWolf: I don't think you'd enjoy it, but I enjoyed it just as an Alien-esque vibe. It goes back to the, like, Trucker main character mentality, where it's not the people that work for the corporation, the people who are against the corporation, which is a nice, refreshing change.

[15:29] Liz Esten: And I think Callie Spinney does a really good job being Ripley, but not being Ripley. You know what I mean?

[15:34] Andrew DeWolf: Is that the Dora the Explorer girl?

[15:36] Liz Esten: No, no, no. That's the person that gets pregnant by her cousin, according to Fede Alvarez.

[15:40] Andrew DeWolf: So, a lot of the sequels are based on the Weyland-Yutani corporation.

[15:44] Liz Esten: Yeah, basically, yeah.

[15:46] Andrew DeWolf: Fucking everybody up. I just think the fun fact with that is in Alien, one, they never actually say who they work for.

[15:51] Liz Esten: Yeah.

[15:52] Andrew DeWolf: It's like a piece of set-

[15:53] Liz Esten: The company.

[15:54] Andrew DeWolf: It's a piece of set dressing, though. There's like a set design thing that shows the Weyland-Yutani corporation, and that's where it comes from. It's just some set designer influenced the lore that heavily. It's pretty fun.

[16:05] Liz Esten: Yeah.

[16:06] Jesse McAnally: Can we rank the Alien characters really quick?

[16:09] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, yes, I can.

[16:11] Jesse McAnally: I know who's number one, so-

[16:12] Andrew DeWolf: Number one is the Xenomorph.

[16:14] Jesse McAnally: Oh, fuck you.

[16:16] Andrew DeWolf: I'm kidding.

[16:17] Jesse McAnally: The Alien doesn't count.

[16:18] Andrew DeWolf: No, the Alien's not a character. Only humans.

[16:20] Jesse McAnally: All right, let's do worst to best. Honestly, worst character, Brett?

[16:25] Liz Esten: No, dude, Brett is like one of my faves.

[16:27] Andrew DeWolf: What?

[16:28] Liz Esten: Are you kidding me?

[16:29] Andrew DeWolf: Brett's wearing a cool-ass shirt, and he has an-

[16:31] Liz Esten: Brett has a sick jacket, a good hat-

[16:33] Andrew DeWolf: And he has an awesome death scene.

[16:35] Liz Esten: He has the best death scene, and I love the gag where he's just like, you just say yes to everything this guy says. Yep.

[16:41] Andrew DeWolf: He's my boss.

[16:42] Liz Esten: What I think we should do is just freeze him. I mean, he's got a disease, why don't we stop it where it is? You can always get to a doctor when we get back home.

[16:48] Andrew DeWolf: Right.

[16:49] Liz Esten: Whenever he says anything, you say, right, Brett, you know that? Right.

[16:53] Andrew DeWolf: Parker, what do you think? Your staff just follows you around and says, right.

[16:57] Liz Esten: It's like a regular parrot.

[16:59] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, shape up. Why are you so bad at parrots?

[17:02] Liz Esten: Right.

[17:03] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, come on, knock it off.

[17:05] Liz Esten: No, the worst is Lambert, honestly.

[17:08] Andrew DeWolf: You don't like Lambert?

[17:09] Liz Esten: No, Lambert sucks.

[17:11] Andrew DeWolf: I like Lambert because Veronica Cartwright was actually traumatized while making that movie.

[17:16] Liz Esten: No, I'm sorry, get out of the way. Lambert, get out of the way.

[17:19] Andrew DeWolf: Get out of the way! He's got a flamethrower!

[17:22] Liz Esten: Get out of the way!

[17:24] Andrew DeWolf: This is going to get off topic.

[17:26] Liz Esten: So the chestburster scene in this movie. So here's the deal. John Hurt and Ridley Scott were the only and obviously the camera people in the crew were the only people that knew it was going to happen. The rest of the cast had no idea. They were told you were doing the scene and they didn't know it was going to look like they had no idea. So when Veronica Cartwright gets covered in blood, she didn't know the blood was going to go there. So she was genuinely screaming after being covered in fake blood.

[17:56] Andrew DeWolf: True filmmaking.

[17:57] Liz Esten: That is true 1979 filmmaking.

[17:59] Andrew DeWolf: I'm rethinking my answer.

[18:01] Liz Esten: I'm actually going to put Kane in this spot.

[18:03] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[18:04] Liz Esten: Kane is just a nothing character, which is fine because he's mostly a vessel for the alien. But like as an actual character, he gets like nothing.

[18:12] Andrew DeWolf: He gets like nothing to work with.

[18:14] Liz Esten: My favorite Kane is in when he's in Spaceballs inexplicably and he goes, Not again! And then the alien comes out and he sings, Hello, my baby!

[18:23] Andrew DeWolf: Best scene in the Spaceballs.

[18:25] Liz Esten: Best scene in Spaceballs, which I only understood after I watched Alien the first time. I spent my entire childhood thinking that's just some guy with an alien in his chest.

[18:34] Andrew DeWolf: Did you know that Veronica Cartwright, according to her, was originally cast as Ripley and was coming to set thinking she was playing Ripley and got sidelined on her first day and was pissed off?

[18:43] Liz Esten: Oh, so sad.

[18:44] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I mean, she's still got to be in the movie for a long, a lot. And she lived for a while. But she doesn't have, you know, Sigourney Weaver's career.

[18:52] Liz Esten: Yeah, obviously.

[18:53] Andrew DeWolf: Obviously, but Sigourney Weaver is like a dime in a dozen moment for this role.

[18:57] Jesse McAnally: Okay, okay. So, worst character, Kane.

[19:01] Andrew DeWolf: Worst character is Kane.

[19:03] Liz Esten: Second worst for me is Lambert.

[19:05] Andrew DeWolf: Lambert.

[19:06] Liz Esten: I want to do the French pronunciation.

[19:08] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, what the fuck?

[19:09] Liz Esten: The French.

[19:10] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, I understand that. Then it has to be Ash.

[19:12] Liz Esten: Fuck Ash.

[19:13] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, yeah.

[19:14] Liz Esten: Ash?

[19:15] Andrew DeWolf: So are we ranking like our favorites to least favorites or because Ash, I think, is an interesting character, but he does suck.

[19:21] Liz Esten: Yeah.

[19:22] Andrew DeWolf: But I would probably put him higher, though. Like, I would probably put, like, Parker here.

[19:26] Liz Esten: Yeah.

[19:27] Andrew DeWolf: No, Parker's so cool.

[19:29] Liz Esten: Parker's a goddamn robot.

[19:31] Andrew DeWolf: Parker's cool, but he doesn't do much. He, like, begrudgingly does repairs.

[19:35] Liz Esten: He could have done something, but she didn't get out of the fucking way.

[19:39] Jesse McAnally: Anyway, do we agree that Ripley is the best one?

[19:42] Andrew DeWolf: Obviously!

[19:43] Liz Esten: Oh, no.

[19:44] Jesse McAnally: Ripley is obviously the best one.

[19:46] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[19:47] Liz Esten: Okay.

[19:48] Andrew DeWolf: No, I'm gonna order Kane, Lambert, Brett, Ash, Dallas, Parker, Ripley.

[19:55] Liz Esten: Parker's...

[19:56] Jesse McAnally: Okay, okay.

[19:57] Andrew DeWolf: Yep.

[19:58] Liz Esten: Then the Xenomorph.

[19:59] Andrew DeWolf: Xenomorph is not a character.

[20:01] Liz Esten: Force of nature.

[20:02] Andrew DeWolf: I guess.

[20:03] Liz Esten: I'm compelled by the Xenomorph. That scene when he's, like, with her alone in that Lucky Star sequence. It gives me a strange amount of empathy for it when it's just curled up in that little wall.

[20:12] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know.

[20:13] Liz Esten: Yeah, but it's about to fucking murder her with acid.

[20:16] Andrew DeWolf: I always look for him, you know, when she first walks in. Like, you can see there's, like, a couple things there. Is he actually there, or did they just... Is that part of the set?

[20:24] Jesse McAnally: Okay, stop.

[20:26] Liz Esten: Um, we forgot one very important character.

[20:29] Andrew DeWolf: I'm so sorry.

[20:30] Liz Esten: Jonesy.

[20:31] Andrew DeWolf: Jonesy!

[20:32] Liz Esten: Oh, Jonesy sucks.

[20:34] Andrew DeWolf: Jonesy got everybody killed.

[20:36] Liz Esten: Everybody killed.

[20:37] Andrew DeWolf: Jonesy did get Brett killed.

[20:39] Liz Esten: Jonesy got Brett killed. I'm gonna throw it out there. I think Jonesy got Lambert and Parker killed, too.

[20:44] Andrew DeWolf: And almost got Ripley killed.

[20:46] Liz Esten: Nearly got Ripley killed. If Ripley wasn't looking for Jonesy, she would have been down there with them by that time, I think, you know?

[20:53] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, but Jonesy was fucking up the tracker, so they couldn't find the alien.

[20:57] Liz Esten: No, well, she was... At that point, they didn't care. They were just getting Jonesy to get him on the shuttle with them.

[21:03] Andrew DeWolf: I think Jonesy has a higher body count than the Xenomorph.

[21:07] Liz Esten: Good on you, Jonesy.

[21:08] Andrew DeWolf: Well, it was like a tag team thing, you know? They were working together the whole time.

[21:12] Jesse McAnally: Um, the production design of this film is incredible. Is there anything that didn't age well? Like, is there, like, any one moment that is like, uh, that's kind of trapped in the 70s?

[21:20] Liz Esten: Some of the... I mean, let's not be too blind here. Some of the stuff where it is just obviously a man in a rubber suit doesn't look amazing.

[21:27] Andrew DeWolf: I'm not saying that, like, we should go back and fix it or anything like that.

[21:30] Liz Esten: No, no, no. Please no one fix it.

[21:32] Andrew DeWolf: It just doesn't...

[21:33] Liz Esten: It just doesn't look amazing.

[21:35] Andrew DeWolf: It's, like, it's in service of the movie, though.

[21:37] Liz Esten: Yeah, like, the practical effects work really, really good for me. Even some of the, like, the smart...

[21:42] Andrew DeWolf: Like, I can't not see it now. When they're going to the space jockey, it's very obviously children in spacesuits.

[21:48] Liz Esten: You don't notice it if you don't know, though.

[21:50] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, if you don't know...

[21:51] Liz Esten: I didn't know that.

[21:52] Andrew DeWolf: I didn't notice.

[21:54] Liz Esten: It's something that once I was told I can't not see it.

[21:57] Andrew DeWolf: Well, yeah, you can tell that they're kind of moving like they're kids.

[22:01] Liz Esten: But the thing is, like, if you don't know that, it's really...

[22:04] Andrew DeWolf: You don't notice it.

[22:05] Liz Esten: You just don't.

[22:06] Andrew DeWolf: Also, you're just so, like, sucked into the environment of the whole planet and the crew and, like, their mission. Like, you don't care at a certain point.

[22:12] Liz Esten: Can we talk about how sick it is that they introduce an alien that isn't the alien first? Like, imagine if you're in 1979 and you walk into this movie and you're like, I'm going to see a movie about an alien. Like, you would think that that was the alien, right?

[22:24] Andrew DeWolf: The space jockey, you mean?

[22:25] Liz Esten: Like, the space jockey?

[22:26] Andrew DeWolf: Well, yeah, it's like you're introduced to this fucking... They find a spaceship. There's a big dead one. And then, like, what? Oh, my God. What if there's a live one or something, you know?

[22:35] Jesse McAnally: See, I never read that.

[25:24] Andrew DeWolf: When I was younger, as its own alien, I was just like, wow, that's a weird fucking statue! Well, the good news is, if you want to know the origins of that space jockey, you can watch 2012's Prometheus. I... see, Prometheus, when it first came out, I'm thinking like, that's not for me. Now that I'm looking back on it, maybe that film might fuck. I've never seen it, though. It doesn't fuck. It doesn't fuck. It, uh, metric opposite fucks. It is a little too pretentious, and Ridley Scott is a little too smarmy the whole time. Also, they introduced the worst thing in the Alien franchise, which is the black goo. Did they introduce that in Thor The Dark World? I didn't see Thor The Dark World. I just, I don't think Alien is a franchise that needs to have all this, like, backstory and origins and all this nonsense that they continuously add to the sequels.

It's like, we got everything we need. There is a parasitic creature, it's an egg, it jumps on your face, and then there's a big one that comes out. Like, what more do you want? Before we get into previews, I do have a ponderous question for you guys. One of us got the facehugger into us. What is the next move?

[26:42] Liz Esten: Kill me.

[26:42] Andrew DeWolf: I die.

[26:43] Liz Esten: Yeah, I die.

[26:44] Andrew DeWolf: You kill me before an alien comes out of me. Look, I mean, I think the later movies, there's some characters where they are able to keep it in them for a while or whatever. Alien Covenant, I think that happens.

[26:56] Liz Esten: Yeah.

[26:56] Andrew DeWolf: Like, if you just watch this movie, it's like maybe 15 minutes. That thing falls off him, he wakes up, and then he walks over and he has dinner, and he's dead. It's like 10 to 15 minutes that he wakes up and then he dies. Um, yeah, I don't know. I think I'd be too much of a pussy to kill myself.

[27:23] Liz Esten: No, you get someone else to kill you.

[27:25] Andrew DeWolf: They should have done what Parker recommended and fucking freeze him.

[27:29] Liz Esten: Yeah, they should have.

[27:29] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, so in this hypothetical, we're all in a spaceship.

[27:32] Liz Esten: Yes.

[27:33] Andrew DeWolf: If one of us were to get the facehugger, would you want the others to kill you?

[27:37] Liz Esten: I don't want to die by the hands of Andrew.

[27:39] Andrew DeWolf: What if I were the one to kill you?

[27:41] Liz Esten: I'm gonna have to ask you to do it.

[27:42] Andrew DeWolf: I would.

[27:43] Liz Esten: What if I'm the only one there?

[27:45] Andrew DeWolf: Oh.

[27:46] Liz Esten: What if I also have a facehugger?

[27:47] Andrew DeWolf: Damn.

[27:48] Liz Esten: Andrew, can you kill us both?

[27:50] Andrew DeWolf: What if I just cut the facehugger so that you get acid burned?

[27:56] Liz Esten: You'd break the ship.

[27:58] Andrew DeWolf: You would break the ship. Oh my god, the rules are set up so beautifully in this film, like the acid blood is set up so well. Everything is just so perfectly executed here. This is a hard movie to talk about because everything is done so well. So how about we compare our opinions? So those are the real critics over on Letterboxd.com. It's time for Previews!

[28:19] Liz Esten: It's time for Previews!

[28:23] Andrew DeWolf: It's time for Previews!

[28:26] Liz Esten: So Liz is the one that pulled the Letterboxd reviews today. So this is a game where Andrew and I are going head-to-head where Liz curated a list of real-life Letterboxd reviews. We have to guess whether they're a one-star or five-star based on nothing but the review alone. Andrew, are you ready?

[28:42] Andrew DeWolf: I'm always ready.

[28:43] Liz Esten: All right, Liz, lay it on us.

[28:45] Andrew DeWolf: You said Liz.

[28:47] Liz Esten: Okay, Liz.

[28:50] Andrew DeWolf: That is not true.

[28:52] Liz Esten: Uh, who's going first?

[28:55] Andrew DeWolf: Um, I can go first.

[28:56] Liz Esten: I'm good at this.

[28:57] Andrew DeWolf: All right, Jez.

[28:58] Liz Esten: Sigourney did it for the gays.

[29:01] Andrew DeWolf: That's a five because gays are good.

[29:04] Liz Esten: Yes, that is correct.

[29:05] Andrew DeWolf: Her butt crack sticking out the front, like, not even that. What kind of underwear is made to look like that?

[29:11] Liz Esten: I don't know.

[29:12] Andrew DeWolf: I have an issue with the underwear thing, but I think everyone does.

[29:18] Liz Esten: No underwear should exist like that.

[29:20] Andrew DeWolf: No, it's disgusting. They don't make underwear like that.

[29:23] Liz Esten: That's my underwear.

[29:26] Andrew DeWolf: They don't make female underwear like that. Just butt crack out. What's the point?

[29:31] Liz Esten: It's like, you might as well wear nothing.

[29:34] Andrew DeWolf: All right, Andrew, you're up.

[29:35] Liz Esten: We did it, Joe.

[29:39] Andrew DeWolf: Kamala Harris on the phone. Soda. Um, but I mean, I would say this is like a deep cut, but honestly, this I don't think this is even from the fucking movie. So we're going to go one star.

[29:54] Liz Esten: It's actually a five.

[29:55] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, there's just I couldn't I can't tell. That wasn't easy.

[29:59] Liz Esten: All right, Jez. I'm ready.

[30:01] Andrew DeWolf: Total ripoff of Prometheus.

[30:04] Liz Esten: That's a five.

[30:05] Andrew DeWolf: That's a one.

[30:08] Liz Esten: They actually thought it was a ripoff of Prometheus. Feels bad, man. Dumbass.

[30:14] Andrew DeWolf: All right, Andrew.

[30:17] Liz Esten: Yeah.

[30:18] Andrew DeWolf: Among Us. The movie.

[30:20] Liz Esten: I think you're reviewing the wrong movie.

[30:22] Andrew DeWolf: That is clearly the thing. This this is not this is not that.

[30:27] Liz Esten: Yeah.

[30:28] Andrew DeWolf: Honestly, an alternate title for the thing should be Pretty Sus. The thing also is a great movie with a similar vibe to this, but definitely not the same movie. This wins by having at least one female character.

[30:45] Liz Esten: Yeah, it's true. I love the thing, but need more women.

[30:48] Andrew DeWolf: That's why the thing remake is better.

[30:50] Liz Esten: Oh, fuck that movie. It can die.

[30:53] Andrew DeWolf: It's all right. It can die. I saw it in theaters. It wasn't the worst. This is going to be five stars because I think they're reviewing the thing and the thing is great.

[31:03] Liz Esten: That's correct.

[31:05] Andrew DeWolf: All right, Jez. The cat was the best thing about this film.

[31:09] Liz Esten: That's a one.

[31:10] Andrew DeWolf: That's right. Because they didn't like everything else. Also, the cat isn't even that good. Like, it's all right. It's cute. Not as cute as Garfield, though.

[31:17] Liz Esten: I knew it. I knew it. I wouldn't put him in my oven.

[31:24] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. See, if they just had minded their business.

[31:28] Liz Esten: See, but the company, though.

[31:30] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, the company forced them. We're going to give that a five.

[31:35] Liz Esten: That's right. I'm good. I'm I'm good at these ones. Hang on. You're coming back. You're coming back.

[31:40] Andrew DeWolf: All right, Jez. I would love to smoke one cigarette in space.

[31:44] Liz Esten: That's a five.

[31:45] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. When the alien came out of the guy's stomach, I thought it was Rufus from Kim Possible.

[31:55] Liz Esten: We're going to give that a one.

[31:56] Andrew DeWolf: That's right. Andrew, play the Naked Mole Rat song right here.

[32:00] Liz Esten: Oh, for fuck's sake. Fuck you, and I'm not going to let you get it. He's already put you're going to put a clip from the Garfield movie in here. So yeah, he's going to put Garfield movie, naked mole rats. This is a shitpost episode. Hey, I put us a fucking Sabrina Carpenter song in the last carried away episode. So like, please, please, please don't be like the others.

[32:21] Andrew DeWolf: No, I put taste. Motherfuck.

[32:23] Liz Esten: Um, yeah, Jess Sigourney Weaver. You're doing something to me.

[32:28] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, they posted horny on Maine.

[32:31] Liz Esten: I think that's one.

[32:34] Andrew DeWolf: Maybe you're actually right. Hey, hey, all right, Andrew, you can tie this.

[32:40] Andrew DeWolf: OK, they should have listened to the women.

[32:43] Liz Esten: I think that's a five because I think that's a positive reading.

[32:47] Andrew DeWolf: But this is mine. I'm picking the opposite of Jess. It's a one.

[32:49] Liz Esten: This is a one.

[32:50] Andrew DeWolf: Jess would be wrong.

[32:51] Liz Esten: You're right. You're tied. Jess has to lose points now, too, because he got that wrong.

[32:55] Andrew DeWolf: OK, Jess lost.

[32:56] Liz Esten: Andrew.

[33:00] Andrew DeWolf: Man, Brie never ganged up on me like this, except for all the time she ganged up on me like this. Hey, you gave me more power.

[33:09] Liz Esten: I just love the idea of like, yeah, she 100% did. It was fine. Speaking of people who gang up on me, how about we go into a mid show?

[33:27] Liz Esten: Hey, guys, sorry to interrupt you.

[33:29] Andrew DeWolf: Let's try that again.

[33:31] Liz Esten: Hey, guys, sorry to interrupt you in the middle of the show, but we've got a show out of you. Today's show is brought to you by the extremely kind donations by our donors over at Patreon. Andrew, tell us about Patreon, who's supporting us and all that jizz.

[33:41] Andrew DeWolf: Man, Patreon is where you can go if you want to help us out financially and keep the show running. There's also a bunch of perks you can get. Of course, we started recording more Patreon content. We actually just did a Halloween Town and hopefully a Halloween Town 2 recording, at least during October at some point. Halloween!

[34:02] Liz Esten: Yeah, the mayor guy. You know, if you think he's hot, hit up Patreon.

[34:09] Andrew DeWolf: Our current patrons are Jessa Stampede, Ewan Cassidy, Monica Theroux, Brent Black, Nathaniel Stacy Coombe, Marylou Choquette, Jon Vanals, Russ Walker, Musical Hell, Emily Gracie, Janay C, Nothing is Certain Except Beth and Taxes, Lesbian, Chai Teacup, Chris Marcotte, Kiji Marie Anastasio, RJ Noriega, Sebastian Canino, Joe, Bjorn Hermans, Toriana Frazier, Sammy the Adequate of Mt. Jacobson, Kaylee Blazier, Villanous Miss, The Omega Geek, Maddie Wargill, Eliza Erdman, Evan Ball, Zachary Torres, Rora Marasso, Mara, Possessed Washing Machine, Nick Roten, Puffyboy, Sydney Hicks, Goldplated Kikimora, Ari Ardy, Emma, Kara Balda, JRL Studios, Alexandra Dom, BT McMonemy, Sarah, and Virgil the Demon. They give us some money to help us not die! If you want to help us continue to not die, why don't you come join us over at Patreon?

[35:15] Liz Esten: Alright, ready to get back to the show?

[35:25] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know if you know this, but there have been sequels to this movie.

[35:30] Liz Esten: We've literally mentioned it like eight times.

[35:32] Andrew DeWolf: Eight thousand times. We've been talking about the sequels the whole fucking time.

[35:34] Liz Esten: Yeah, Jess, the whole time. This is a terrible transition. In those sequels, they don't really unlock the potential of this original film. Do you think it was the right move to move to action?

[35:47] Andrew DeWolf: I think it was kind of. Because I feel like when people think of Alien now, they no longer really consider it a horror franchise. They think of it as an action franchise because of what James Cameron's done. Is there a world where this could have been like a Friday the 13th where a new director kind of just remakes the same movie? Or is what has become the mishmash of weird shit a better option?

[36:09] Liz Esten: I'm actually very okay with the transition to action because, frankly, this movie is perfect and I don't think that you could ever do it better and I don't think I want to see the same movie over and over again. So I'm kind of okay with them just being like, well, whatever, we'll take the concept in a different direction because this movie is still here, you know, and I can just watch this, which is what I do. I have not watched any of the sequels in a long time, including the second one, which is what everyone considers to be like the good one. I don't watch that one either.

[36:39] Andrew DeWolf: I watch Alien 3 a lot because of the romance.

[36:43] Liz Esten: But that's about it. Like that romance at the core really works for me. Can we talk about the pacing of this movie and how it's-

[36:49] Andrew DeWolf: Go for it.

[36:50] Liz Esten: Perfect. It's so slowly paced at the start, but it's never boring. There's a lot of intrigue. The settings in the set design kind of carry the entire beginning. I really love- I love how it opens, like that crawl through the ship with no one on it is like a perfect opening and then the shot of the distress signal or warning signal, whatever, against the helmet. All of that is great and it lasts like 10 fucking minutes before you even get a character in the fucking movie. I think I'm exaggerating a bit, but it's got to be like three or four minutes, right? It's a good time. It's a good amount of time before the film really unplugs and starts up. And then even then we kind of unload, let them wake up, let them have breakfast before we even get to an inciting incident.

It's maybe one of the slowest openings that isn't boring as fuck. Even the title card, it's so slow. The new- I think the new Alien movie did the trailer and they do the title card and they must have sped it up like three times because-

[38:07] Andrew DeWolf: Actual title card for this movie takes forever to actually... because they just have one line up here for the word alien. Every beat is a new line of the word alien, and it takes at least a minute before it actually spells the entire word out, and they go through the whole cast while they're doing it. The whole opening is so slow, and it's just... it's so good at setting the tone of the movie, though, without actually having any scares, without having any character work, without having anything. It's just pure setting and music, like mood music. That's it. Also to go off of that, once the characters do come in, they're just comfortable with each other, and their conflict feels not exaggerated, but normal, like little petty squabbles.

They joke with each other, it feels natural, and you're just comfortable immediately with these people, and you don't even know their names. You're like, okay, we're on a journey, and throughout the whole movie, there's no conflict with each other. It's all with the alien. Sort of untrue. Sort of. There's some conflict, but it's not like... Ash is a piece of shit. Ash is a piece of shit. Early in the movie, you can catch it, and that's one of the best parts of the early part of the movie. Especially on rewatch, you already know, so it's like, okay. Or you may already know, just because everything has been spoiled always. It's the internet. But Ash is working directly with the company, and he's a robot, and he gets orders from Mother, who is also a robot that's in charge of everything.

She's the Mother computer, yeah. She's like the HAL 9000. So Ash has a lot of scenes where he does things that don't really make sense if you don't know what his actual motivations are. Discounting Ash, the other human characters, I mean. The core group that we follow, and understand, and sympathize with. It feels like a real group of people that worked together for years, and trapped on a ship for years. That's what I'm trying to... And you have that weird kind of tension. It's very obvious that Lambert hates Ripley. In a realistic kind of way, not in a dumb movie kind of way, but in the way of like, yeah, I'm gonna be nice to you, but also, I'm gonna roll my eyes when you say shit I don't like and slap you when I get the chance.

What the hell are we doing out here? Can you read me, over? I don't know. What the hell are you talking about? That's not our system. I know that. But that feels real. It's just like, I fucking hate you, but I'm gonna fucking work with you. On a film set, that vibe between two very strong-willed women, I feel it. I feel it so hard.

[41:02] Liz Esten: Yeah, and I feel it's so good. It makes you more settled in. I think what's also great with this movie is, and we've ranked all the characters, but you're able to rank all the characters because they actually give every character something. Even if it's not that much, every character has something. Like, even a character that should be nobody, like Brett, who is probably one of the least developed characters in the fucking movie, they even give him... Him and Parker are a team, and they want to get a bigger bonus, because I guess they're the engineering team, and they get less of a bonus than everyone else on the ship, who are more in charge of actually piloting and things. So that's their whole thing, their whole beginning, and it's like, they really establish every character and give them something. And not just a one-note nothing, they all have their own distinct personality. It's really great.

[41:56] Andrew DeWolf: They all look like they smell bad. I don't know why that kind of meant, but it's one of the few things that this film apes from Star Wars that works. I think this is a better film than Star Wars, I'm not trying to say it ripped off, but it's one of the things that a lot of sci-fi movies post-Star Wars didn't get about Star Wars, which is, it has to look like it kind of feels grimy and real. I think what is really great with this, as a sci-fi as well, is it actually feels like what humans would be like in the future. It doesn't just feel like, oh well, in the future, all humans are going to be hyper-intelligent mind boys who speak in philosophical nonsense. And it's like, why would we suddenly be like that? What, because we invent space travel? It's like, no, we're just going to be us, but on a spaceship. We're going to do truck jobs, but they'll be in space.

[43:02] Liz Esten: Yeah, so it's like, these are just people on a spaceship, and they act like they're just people on a spaceship. I mean, not to throw out the very obvious question that everyone's asking when they watch this film, but what if they fought a Predator? Okay. Shut the fuck up. I don't want to talk about Alien vs. Predator. There's nothing to say about it. We can talk about AVP when we actually talk about AVP.

[43:12] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, it's unrelated to this movie. It's unrelated.

[43:15] Liz Esten: It's its own series. It's actually not connected. It's not the same Alien. The lore is different.

[43:20] Andrew DeWolf: I only bring that up because of the franchise potentiality that this inspires is so whack to me. The fact that these things have become a marketing tool, like, Liz, for this entire run of Alien Romulus, this thing was a fucking popcorn bucket.

[43:36] Liz Esten: I know. I know. I literally saw it opening week. It worked on me.

[43:47] Andrew DeWolf: So I think horror is the thing that I hate the most when it comes to merchandising because they merchandise everything so much, and it's always the villain horror character. And I sort of get it. But at the same time, it kind of just lessens it. Why do you want to have a toy of Pennywise in your house? You're supposed to be scared of Pennywise. He's like a weird, creepy demon that will eat your soul. Why do you want him in your house? Why do you want the alien in your house? But it's just what people do, I guess. I don't know. It just kind of fucks everything up, I think.

[44:31] Liz Esten: I like getting merch for these type of movies. The thing that I really want from this movie is I want Brett's fucking jacket. I think that would be so sick. The Brett jacket with the Nostromo thing on the back. I think that would be so cool to have.

[44:52] Andrew DeWolf: Yes. But a lot of people, they just buy a shirt that has the alien on it. I don't get it.

[45:03] Liz Esten: I don't get why you want that. I don't know. They sell that on Etsy, Andrew.

[45:10] Andrew DeWolf: I know. I was looking at it. It's like 150 bucks or something.

[45:12] Liz Esten: It's a lot. I think Robert Englund talked about that because at a certain point, Freddy Krueger became a kid icon. He got really uncomfortable by it, which is why that scene in New Nightmare exists of him with the crowd at the talk show, because that was a big thing he was just deeply uncomfortable with at a certain point, and so was everyone else.

[45:29] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, because it's like this guy, he's an actual-

[45:32] Liz Esten: He's a child predator! He's a murderer, too. He's killed so many fucking people.

[45:40] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. It's weird. Right now, the big thing is Terrifier. Jess, do you know anything about Terrifier?

[45:47] Liz Esten: I'm friends with the guy that plays Terrifier on Facebook, but that's it.

[45:50] Andrew DeWolf: You're probably David Howard Thornton?

[45:54] Liz Esten: Yeah, it's weird. Shit. I was friends with him before he was famous, so it's weird.

[45:58] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, okay. Okay. I don't have anything against the movie. I've never seen them or anything. All I know is the actual clown, Art the Clown, the Terrifier, is a merchandising thing right now. Everybody wants merch of him, and it's like, this dude sawed a woman in half in the first movie.

[46:21] Liz Esten: I saw Terrifier 2 the only week it was supposed to be in theaters until it got extended six months inexplicably for money, and there's a scene in Terrifier 2 where, trigger warning, this is really gross, if you want to skip ahead, if you want to avoid this, he skins a woman, he covers her in salt, and then tortures her by continuing to peel off her skin, and then turns her severed head into a candy bucket.

[46:54] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, but as a person who's actually seen these movies, I don't want to buy Art the Clown merch. I actively do not want a doll of Art the Clown in my house. I like the art people make of Terrifier, but it's other things. Also, I own a flannel with the Terrifier 2 poster on the back, so I can't say much. I guess what I'm saying is, showing that you like the movie is different than showing that you like the villain.

[47:17] Liz Esten: Yeah, I don't like Art the Clown as a character. I don't want to impugn people that have a Michael Myers shirt or something, but it is weird to me. Why do you want the villain? Is there any villain that you think is cut off from that?

[47:39] Andrew DeWolf: There's two in my head where I'm like, okay, I feel they're a little disconnected from that.

[47:47] Liz Esten: If you say Cooper Trap, I swear to God.

[47:54] Andrew DeWolf: No, but that would have been funny. I'm thinking of Candyman, who I think is almost pushing anti-hero territory, and Hannibal Lecter, where they're proper characters.

[48:03] Liz Esten: I wouldn't say Hannibal, because he's actively eaten and killed people, and we treat him like he's done nothing.

[48:10] Andrew DeWolf: I think the difference is seeing it on screen.

[48:15] Liz Esten: You don't see Hannibal Lecter do anything.

[48:22] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, you do. You see him eat Ray Liotta's brain, remember?

[48:28] Liz Esten: I'm talking about Silence of the Lambs. Those other movies don't count. Those other movies are garbage.

[48:36] Andrew DeWolf: Also, we see him eat a man's face in Silence of the Lambs.

[48:42] Liz Esten: You don't see it, you just hear about it.

[48:45] Andrew DeWolf: Well, yeah, but it's off-screen. But still, he does it to someone on camera. I'm iffy about this, because it's like, do I really care? I don't really care. I want a sociologist to study this or something. Why do people want the horror villain? I'm sure someone asked. It's a weird topic.

[49:02] Liz Esten: I do kind of want to talk about Ripley.

[49:08] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, go.

[49:10] Liz Esten: Okay, I'm kind of obsessed with Ripley. I had this thought when I was watching Romulus in theaters. Ripley is a character, for history context, sci-fi and women prior to this were very gendered. Think Barbarella, and how sexy woman she was and shit like that. Sigourney Weaver's Ripley is a character that is complex, developed, does actionable things to the plot, survives, and makes it to the end, and just happens to be a woman. It's not in the text like a woman is the third commanding officer, what the fuck's going on here? It's not a thing, part of a conflict. She just happens to be a woman. That is fucking sick to watch when you're a young woman who has watched these things. The female lead is textually a woman in the narrative. They constantly mention her gender and shit like that. She just happens to be a woman and kicks everyone's ass, kicks all the aliens' ass. That's sick to watch.

[50:16] Andrew DeWolf: There's really just no gender comments.

[50:19] Liz Esten: There's not none. I think Parker says something interesting about Lambert at the dinner table. I'm sure you both already know this, but in case someone listening doesn't, the script was written gender neutral where there was no anything like that, so whatever got cast was cast. I think it's part of what makes that so effective.

[50:40] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. I remember watching Romulus and at the end I was just thinking about Ripley and how Ripley doing this in 19-

[50:49] Liz Esten: Sigourney Weaver playing Ripley in 1979 allowed Callie Spinney, an up-and-comer in 2024, to play a lead character in a sci-fi movie who survives to the end, is a complex character, and just happens to be a woman. She's not written that way, she just is a character. And that just made me happy to think about how much Sigourney Weaver's Ripley has done for a genre in general, and that's fucking sick.

[51:17] Andrew DeWolf: Is Callie Spinney still an up-and-comer? I feel like she's been around forever.

[51:21] Liz Esten: Well, she's an up-and-comer this year, because she has had three big hits in a row.

[51:26] Andrew DeWolf: I guess.

[51:27] Liz Esten: Yeah, she's an up-and-comer. Okay, this is like the Sabrina Carpenter argument, where she's been making music for ten years, but she's famous now.

[51:30] Andrew DeWolf: Wasn't Sabrina Carpenter a Vine star or something?

[51:37] Liz Esten: No, Jess, she was a Disney star.

[51:39] Andrew DeWolf: Wasn't she on Vine when she was like four?

[51:41] Liz Esten: Probably, but wasn't everyone on Vine when they were four?

[51:44] Andrew DeWolf: No, time doesn't work that way for me.

[51:47] Liz Esten: Anyway, back to the actual argument here.

[51:50] Andrew DeWolf: Sabrina Carpenter was cranking out music all these years, and she finally hit it big this year. Like, it took her a while, and that's the Callie Spinney argument. She has been acting, but she hasn't had a big lead role until Priscilla, Civil War, and Romulus, though. That got her attention from every...

[52:07] Liz Esten: I have only seen Priscilla, and I think she's great in it.

[52:11] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, she's incredible in Priscilla. I watched it after Romulus.

[52:13] Liz Esten: Didn't love that movie, but I think that's a great performance.

[52:16] Andrew DeWolf: I really like Priscilla, but that's just me.

[52:19] Liz Esten: I struggle with Sofia Coppola.

[52:21] Andrew DeWolf: I don't struggle with her, but I love The Virgin Suicides.

[52:24] Liz Esten: I love The Virgin Suicides, too. That's the one I don't struggle with.

[52:28] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[52:29] Liz Esten: But yeah, anyway, I just love Ripley. That's it.

[52:35] Andrew DeWolf: Ripley fucking slaps. I love her. She's amazing.

[52:39] Liz Esten: Andrew, do you want to unpack Dallas and how he represents the patriarchy?

[52:45] Andrew DeWolf: No, I don't think so.

[52:47] Liz Esten: I don't think Dallas represents the patriarchy.

[52:50] Andrew DeWolf: I don't really see that.

[52:52] Liz Esten: I do think Dallas is an interesting character, though.

[52:54] Andrew DeWolf: I think they actually do pretty decent character work with him.

[52:58] Liz Esten: Yeah, I think his scene where he basically does a suicide mission is pretty good.

[53:08] Andrew DeWolf: He goes to Mother before he's going to go into the vents and try to lure out the alien. And I think he asks, what are my chances of survival? And the computer's just like, does not compute. He looks so resigned, like, oh, okay. And then he just does it. He just goes in and he fucking dies. I don't know. It's interesting.

[53:34] Liz Esten: I always kind of liked Dallas. What if he shoved his cowboy hat onto Ripley's head and said, you're in charge now, girly girl, and then walked off?

[53:42] Andrew DeWolf: Would that be more? That would be much worse.

[53:44] Liz Esten: That would be awful. That literally was the thing I just talked about that they didn't do.

[53:50] Andrew DeWolf: What if Ripley fired a gun and then she turned to her crewmates and said, what? You've never seen a girl fire a gun before?

[53:57] Liz Esten: I literally just made a solid point about gender neutral writing and gesturing to a fucking meme.

[54:03] Andrew DeWolf: Jess, are you trying to write a new movie? Is that what's going on?

[54:09] Liz Esten: I'm trying to make your point by highlighting all the wrong decisions that could have been made.

[54:14] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, cool. I thought I had an intelligent thought there. I was thinking about that all day today.

[54:18] Liz Esten: I'm trying to accentuate the point you're making. Jess writes Alien. Ripley gets on the ship at the end and she goes, yep, a girl made it out. I'm a girl. The Marvel movie version of Alien where it's like, don't worry, the women have it together and then all the women walk together.

[54:34] Andrew DeWolf: I remember I saw Captain Marvel in theaters and I hated it and all over on the Internet was saying it was good. And I was like, am I the only woman that doesn't like Captain Marvel?

[54:46] Liz Esten: And I'm like, oh, I'm not alone.

[54:49] Andrew DeWolf: You're not alone. Captain Marvel has ideas that are not remotely related to the lead character, which is the problem with Captain Marvel. There's a lot of problems with Captain Marvel.

[54:59] Liz Esten: And it's not Brie Larson.

[55:02] Andrew DeWolf: No, I actually like the Marvels. The Marvels is kind of good, even though it needed Acosta.

[55:05] Liz Esten: I think I went to see Captain Marvel because there was like the hate train for like Brie Larson in the movie. And I was like, I'm going to go. It's a toxic gossip train.

[55:14] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, whatever it was. I went to see it because I was like, there's no way it's as bad as they all say. And the thing is, it like it kind of was as bad as they all say, but not for the reasons that they were saying, right? It was like, no, it was like they're saying that it's like, oh, feminism Brie Larson ruined this and it's just like, no, no, the writing else definitely did.

[55:37] Liz Esten: That was the writing. And I am not full of shame. Thus, I use my woman powers to defeat you, Jude Law, because I am woman.

[55:48] Andrew DeWolf: This is my fight song.

[55:53] Liz Esten: Wasn't that Hillary Clinton's like main song that she used for her rallies?

[55:58] Andrew DeWolf: I think that sums up where we were. That's why Kamala didn't use woman's world.

[56:03] Liz Esten: God, what a horrible, horrible existence we live in. Thank God we have few good things like the movie Alien. On that note, what is our overall thoughts on Alien and our cheese rating?

[56:15] Andrew DeWolf: I can start if that's best for everyone. Sure. I think Alien is a perfect horror film. And I don't, and I say that without even the qualifiers horror film, but it is, that's what it is. And I say that as a positive because I feel like a lot of folks will use that as like, well, it's okay for a horror film. No, it is perfect and a horror movie. And it's great. And I love it. And I wish, I wish that it hadn't been turned into the franchise fodder it has.

[56:45] Liz Esten: You know what I mean?

[56:47] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I know what you mean. And not even because all the films are bad, but only because it kind of damages how good this first one is. And on that note, I'm going to be lazy as hell this week and I'm giving it the marijuana strain Alien cheese.

[57:02] Liz Esten: Andrew, you're next.

[57:06] Andrew DeWolf: So Alien has been one of my favorite movies for a long time. There's certainly some things that have not aged beautifully. But frankly, like the movie looks phenomenal. The sets are really well done. The fucking pacing is incredible. The character work is incredible. It gets incredibly tense. I wish I could be more scared of it than I am. I've seen it too many times at this point. I'm just I am not scared of it anymore. But I think when you don't know what's happening, what's like every single thing that's going to happen. There's a lot of really tense scenes that can scare the shit out of you even now. Although less so when you already know what's going to happen, which sadly the Internet ruins everything.

So you may you may already know what's going to happen and have not even seen this movie. I don't know. For a cheese, I'm going to give it a freeze-dried cheese, which I have had. It's really it's an interesting texture, but I'm mostly giving it that because I mean, that's what astronauts eat.

[57:17] Liz Esten: Wow. And Liz, it's up to you. Bring us home.

[58:21] Liz Esten: I love Alien. Obviously, I put it on the put on the wheel. I love this movie. It's the perfect horror, sci-horror movie, perfect sci-fi movie as per amount of tension, incredible character work, great characters, a lead character that like makes me like kind of feel seen in a genre that doesn't like to include me all the time. And I as a person that's seen all the sequels, I don't I think the legacy of this movie kind of stands on its own. And I think Romulus borrows quite a bit from this movie. It feels like a direct sequel to this movie, which is a compliment. It's not perfect in any regard, but it feels like a continuation of the better part of this franchise. And if they continue it, I'll keep going to see it in theaters. So, you know, and yeah, this movie is incredible. Please go watch it. And I'm going to give it space cheese.

[59:13] Andrew DeWolf: I know we didn't talk about Ridley Scott as a figure very much. I don't really want to. Not that I really want to talk about him. Has anyone had such a strange filmography as him? Because you start off with the Duelist and Alien and that he really doesn't do anything like that again until Prometheus and he makes things like Thelma and Louise and Blade Runner and fucking Hannibal and his last like 10 years of work is still some of the wildest stuff ever. The Martian, all the money in the world, The Last Duel, House of Gucci, Napoleon, and now Gladiator 2. Like this man is so close to death and he keeps on working for some reason. You know, good for him. The work keeps you alive.

[1:00:00] Liz Esten: He doesn't have money. I wish they were better films. Speaking of people who wish that this was better content. Thank you for listening. Please follow us on iTunes and Spotify at TheCheeseWheel. We're on Twitter at CheeseWheel. Cast Patreon at TheCheeseWheel. We're on Instagram at TheCheeseWheel. We're wherever we're at TheCheeseWheel. Follow us on Patreon and listen to Patreon with Cheese. We do our Halloweentown commentaries. Email us at musicaltheatrelives@gmail.com. Our keeper of the cheese is Juliet Antonio. This show is edited by Andrew DeWolf. This show is hosted by Andrew DeWolf, Jesse McAnally, and Elizabeth Espin. Our themes are created by Andrew DeWolf and orchestrated by me. Thank you to the Broadway Podcast Network for having us on the platform and for not kicking us off for burning acid through the floor of the office. I know we did it one time. It was really, really unpleasant. Alan was really, really mad.

[1:00:42] Liz Esten: Let's bring in the wheel to figure out what we're talking about next week. Oh, look at it. It's the wheel. It's so shiny. We're keeping it Halloween related. So we kind of removed all the things that weren't kind of Halloweeny. So sorry about that, kids. Are you ready to spin it?

[1:01:06] Andrew DeWolf: I hope it's a Halloween movie. I hope it's a spooky movie then.

[1:01:10] Liz Esten: All right, let's spin it.

[1:01:13] Andrew DeWolf: Look at that baby go. It spins so fast. Oh, baby, baby. Wow. Yeah. Oh, my God. It's one of Andrew's picks.

[1:01:25] Liz Esten: Really? Speaking of John Carpenter, next week, we are talking about John Carpenter's film In the Mouth of Madness.

[1:01:32] Andrew DeWolf: Let's go. Oh, thank goodness. I've watched this movie every Halloween for the past four years.

[1:01:40] Liz Esten: Okay, can I be honest with my experience of this film? Do you want to wait till when we record the actual episode?

[1:01:46] Andrew DeWolf: No, because it means I haven't watched it yet. I keep trying to watch it and then I get to like the 10-minute mark and I'm like, this fucks too hard. I can't watch it alone.

[1:01:58] Liz Esten: Dude, it's a really good movie.

[1:02:02] Andrew DeWolf: My experience was, this fucks hard. I need to keep going.

[1:02:06] Liz Esten: Mine was like, I need to stop and share this experience with someone.

[1:02:10] Andrew DeWolf: So, we'll talk about it next week, but it is the perfect Halloween movie. It's incredible. This is the movie that you do a Halloween party. This is the movie that should go on. Yeah, I'm sick of watching Creepshow, guys. Sorry. Creepshow's fine, but yeah, this is it.

[1:02:28] Liz Esten: This is it right here, In the Mouth of Madness. Well, get your mouth ready for madness because that's what we're covering next week. Open up your books, motherfuckers. And we'll see you then to talk about that and many more things on the cheese wheel. Bye-bye, folks.

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