This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Jesse McAnally: Knee deep in the passenger seat and you're eatin' Metton. Is it casual now?

[0:06] Andrew DeWolf: Metton! It's a runny French cheese made in Franche-Comté, mostly used as an ingredient for making canned coliettes.

[0:16] Liz Esten: So that was my little couch gag.

[0:18] Jesse McAnally: Franche-Comté.

[0:20] Andrew DeWolf: Franche-Comté!

[0:21] Jesse McAnally: Hello, I'm Jesse McAnally.

[0:30] Andrew DeWolf: And I'm Andrew DeWolf.

[0:32] Liz Esten: And I'm Liz Esten.

[0:34] Jesse McAnally: And welcome to The Cheese Wheel, a hyperfixation podcast where our topics are gambled on a big wheel. And this week, if you listened to last week's episode, play the clip here.

[0:45] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, this is one of mine! Next week, we are covering Chappell Roan, The Rise and Fall of a Midwest Princess, the album.

[0:50] Jesse McAnally: We are covering Chappell Roan, The Rise and Fall of a Midwest Princess, plus one other single, because I wanted to talk about the other one.

[1:01] Liz Esten: Which is exciting! Like, we're talking about an album, and a really popular album, and I'm pretty sure all three of us love it.

[1:09] Andrew DeWolf: This is the first album we've talked about in at least 300-something episodes of doing our previous show.

[1:19] Jesse McAnally: Yeah. Isn't it great?

[1:21] Andrew DeWolf: Wait, last album was my recommendation, so this time we're doing a Jess recommendation.

[1:27] Liz Esten: Yeah, yeah, this time.

[1:29] Jesse McAnally: You know, the wheel landed on what the wheel landed on, you can't blame me.

[1:32] Andrew DeWolf: The wheel wants what it wants.

[1:36] Liz Esten: And sometimes what it wants is gay.

[1:39] Jesse McAnally: Cue the music!

[1:41] Andrew DeWolf: H-O-T-T-O-T-O, you can take me on to go, H-O-T-T-O-T-O, you can take me on to go.

[1:56] Jesse McAnally: The Rise and Fall of a Midwest Princess is an album with songs written by Kaylee Rose Amstutz, aka Chappell Roan, and Daniel Nigro, produced by Daniel Nigro, Ryan Linville, and Mike Wise. It released on September 22, 2023, and it was mostly brought on with critical acclaim when it was released, described as something that has a bold and uproarious introduction buoyed by strong songcraft and steely indifference to good taste.

[2:25] Andrew DeWolf: It's great, I love it.

[2:27] Jesse McAnally: The album is inspired by Roan's experience leaving her hometown of Missouri to Los Angeles to pursue a career as a singer. During her journey of self-discovery, Roan navigated love, heartbreak, and embraced her sexual identity, themes that would become central to the record.

[2:43] Liz Esten: Alright, I put this on the wheel, because this was my choice, because I fucking love this album, and it makes me happy, and you know what? That's what this show should be about!

[2:55] Andrew DeWolf: That's the whole fucking point.

[2:56] Jesse McAnally: That's literally the point.

[2:57] Liz Esten: The whole idea of the show.

[2:59] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, we talk about things we love.

[3:01] Liz Esten: And hate!

[3:02] Jesse McAnally: This is kind of the first, like, real cheese wheel episode, because I feel like the last pick was kind of a, it was a me and Jess pick almost, and probably a little bit of Liz too, honestly.

[3:12] Liz Esten: I feel like you were kind of into that one.

[3:14] Andrew DeWolf: Definitely.

[3:14] Jesse McAnally: So, this is the first one where I feel like this is your pick, Jess.

[3:19] Liz Esten: You know, like, how do we run this?

[3:21] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[3:21] Jesse McAnally: I think whoever's pick it is should kind of run the show for their individualized picks. I feel like that makes the most sense.

[3:26] Andrew DeWolf: I'm gonna start with everyone else, because I know Liz will have a slightly different story than mine, and mine's fairly short, which is, I discovered this album because me and my girlfriend were just on a long drive home, and I'm just like, and I was honestly ranting about my true feelings that I've ranted on our previous podcast, that I can't enjoy musical theater songs really anymore. I can't listen to it, because it feels like work, and it really is just so connected with something that is stressful and unpleasant for me at this point in my life. And that was all I used to listen to. And she's like, well, let's listen to this. I hear it's good. We turned it on. I immediately just started getting obsessed with this fucking album. And every day, I have listened to something from it, and it has taken a hold of me in a way that no pop music ever has.

[4:13] Liz Esten: And it sounds really ridiculous to say this, considering I am, you know, a man pushing 40, 30, not 40, 30.

[4:21] Andrew DeWolf: 40!

[4:26] Liz Esten: Oh, Jesus, he's aging up already.

[4:28] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, he's so old?

[4:29] Liz Esten: He's already... Oh, my goodness.

[4:32] Jesse McAnally: Approaching 30, that this really wasn't designed for, but it did make me feel whole in a lot of different ways. And these songs spoke to me in ways that pop music usually doesn't. Um, and I'll probably go into that more. And Andrew, not to ruin yours, you listened to this and found this because I told you to.

[4:50] Andrew DeWolf: Liz, you have a deeper history with this show.

[4:53] Liz Esten: Not fully.

[4:54] Andrew DeWolf: Not fully.

[4:54] Liz Esten: Okay, okay, Liz, we'll get to you then. What is it, Andrew, then? Because I know Liz has deep roots.

[5:00] Andrew DeWolf: Very.

[5:00] Jesse McAnally: Okay, so, um, I have kind of listened to some of these songs already because my girlfriend has been into it, and she has a Hot To Go t-shirt that she likes to wear. This is the first time I've listened, like, all the way through, but I had definitely heard Feminominon, Casual, Hot To Go, and Pink Pony Club before listening to this album all the way through.

[5:24] Liz Esten: Which I did do. I did listen to this album all the way through multiple times for this, so.

[5:27] Andrew DeWolf: And it didn't feel like a chore, did it?

[5:33] Liz Esten: No, honestly. Like, there is definitely some songs where I'm like, this one's a little slow, this one's a little bit not for me. But there is definitely a lot that are like, oh, right. You know, that's kind of a, that's kind of good.

[5:48] Jesse McAnally: Now, Liz, your turn. Lay the backstory.

[5:52] Liz Esten: Okay, mine's pretty goddamn long. Anyway, so we're gonna take it back to, like, January, February of this year. I have been listening to Renee Rapp's EP and album for about a month and a bit at this point. I'm getting kind of in that, like, gay, gay pop side of things. And as a result, my Twitter feed is full of Renee Rapp content, and Chapel Rhone starts to sneak in. And Good Luck Babe is basically out by February, so it's like on my brain. So one day, I'm at work, and I work early in the morning, so we're not open. I can listen to music. So I'm like, I'm just gonna put Chapel Rhone on. I need to listen to something. And I stick it on, and even on a low volume, I was like, okay, I gotta listen to this in my car. I gotta listen to this in my car. It's March. And I'm like, okay. And I listened to my car, and then I was like, this is so freaking good. And ever since that day, I listened to my car at a very loud volume. I've listened to at least six songs from this album every day, and I basically have most of it memorized. And every time she does a live show, I obsessively go on Twitter to see what she's wearing and everything else just about her. And I've listened to probably this album like 86,000 times in full. Including the slow shit, which I listen to a lot. So, because, you know, my gauge with this album is a lot of guys are like, I really like this album, but it's really good when it peaks up. When it starts to get slow, it gets a little boring. And then women listen to it, it's like, I love when it gets sad. I love being a sad little lesbian. It's the best thing ever. Because when I'm supposed to be sad, I get in the mind of a sad little lesbian. And it's a lot of fun. I love this album dearly, and I love Chapel Rhone dearly. She's been a hyper fixation of mine for a hot minute. So hopefully I won't go off too long in this episode.

[7:48] Jesse McAnally: That's fine. We're here to share joys and let them be great.

[7:52] Liz Esten: She's one of my biggest joys. She's currently my home screen on my phone as we speak.

[7:58] Andrew DeWolf: But it's funny you compare her to Renee Rapp, who is an... I like as a theater actress, I really, really do not like her pop music. I find her pop music very immature and kind of, you know, not my thing. I hate saying it like that because it does sound like, you know, old man yelling about things he doesn't like or understand. But it just feels a little too... What song should I play here? What's the example?

[8:24] Liz Esten: Snow Angel is the first one that comes to my head.

[8:26] Andrew DeWolf: And Tummy Hurts.

[8:27] Liz Esten: I fucking love Tummy Hurts.

[8:29] Andrew DeWolf: Now my tummy hurts, he's in love with her. But for what it's worth, they'd make beautiful babies and raise them up to be a couple of fucking monsters like their mother and their father. Eventually, 2043, someone's gonna have a little girl like the goddess of May.

[8:53] Liz Esten: You're allowed to like them.

[8:54] Andrew DeWolf: Contention?

[8:56] Liz Esten: I don't.

[8:57] Andrew DeWolf: I think also in... I think Renee Rapp's EP is actually kind of better than Snow Angel, semi-controversial opinion, because it has Colorado on it. It's probably one of her best songs because it's just like really fun. And it's just about her, like, not dealing with her mental health. So.

[9:12] Liz Esten: It's just baffling to me that she has such an incredible voice, such an incredible range of her voice. And she sings like this.

[9:18] Andrew DeWolf: It's like a low, kind of barely singing, speaking.

[9:27] Liz Esten: But this is not a Renee Rapp diss track. This is a Chaperone appreciation bar.

[9:30] Andrew DeWolf: I also love Renee Rapp.

[9:33] Liz Esten: I love Renee Rapp, don't like her music.

[9:36] Andrew DeWolf: Andrew, what do you know about Chaperone as a human being?

[9:40] Andrew DeWolf: Uh, she's from the Midwest. She moved to California when she got a record deal.

[9:43] Liz Esten: You're just repeating all the things I said.

[9:48] Andrew DeWolf: And then she moved back.

[9:50] Liz Esten: Yeah.

[9:51] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, that's what I knew before you read that. And that's now what I... That's still what I know after.

[9:55] Liz Esten: I've also seen some info that she dresses like Miss Piggy.

[10:01] Andrew DeWolf: Okay.

[10:02] Liz Esten: Specifically.

[10:03] Andrew DeWolf: That's a meme.

[10:05] Liz Esten: It's a meme, but I'm going to take it as true because I want it to be true.

[10:08] Jesse McAnally: I mean, that kind of leads into the Chaperone as a drag queen conversation.

[10:12] Andrew DeWolf: Can women be drag queens?

[10:15] Liz Esten: Women can be drag queens.

[10:16] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[10:17] Liz Esten: But the way she describes it is interesting. Like, yes, she has... I think she's a drag queen. I think it fits. But she compares the persona of Chaperone to her real self as, like, Miley Cyrus to Hannah Montana. Like, they're two different entities. Like, there's the performer self and then there's the real person underneath it all. And I find that, like, ooh, that's juicy. I like that.

[10:40] Andrew DeWolf: Miley Cyrus to Hannah Montana or, like, Jim Henson's hand to Miss Piggy.

[10:45] Liz Esten: Kermit the Frog.

[10:46] Andrew DeWolf: Okay.

[10:47] Liz Esten: No, Miss Piggy.

[10:50] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, but it's not Jim Henson's hand. It's Frank Oz's hand.

[10:54] Liz Esten: No, you're Muppet lore. Fuck you.

[10:55] Andrew DeWolf: Ah, you're right. You're so fucking right. God damn it.

[10:58] Liz Esten: Injuries cancelled.

[10:59] Andrew DeWolf: Injuries cancelled.

[11:01] Jesse McAnally: I know we're in a Chaperone thing and...

[11:04] Andrew DeWolf: So, today, the Saturday Night Live movie trailer came out. And for some reason, Nicholas Braun is playing both Jim Henson and Andy Kaufman. And he's doing a terrible job at both.

[11:17] Liz Esten: I'm sorry. Did you say the Saturday Night Live movie?

[11:20] Andrew DeWolf: It's in everyone's best interest. Mainly yours.

[11:23] Liz Esten: Sorry, was that a threat?

[11:24] Andrew DeWolf: Look around, Lawrence. You haven't locked the script. Your crew is in open rebellion.

[11:29] Liz Esten: Fuck you.

[11:30] Andrew DeWolf: Fuck you.

[11:31] Liz Esten: I've definitely fucked you.

[11:32] Andrew DeWolf: The writers on the 17th floor tied a belt around Big Bird's neck and hung him from my dressing room door.

[11:39] Liz Esten: Yeah, there's a movie by Jason Reitman coming out called Saturday Night, which used to be called SNL 75, which is about the 90 minutes leading up to the first broadcast of SNL.

[11:51] Andrew DeWolf: Is this going to be some sort of, like, masturbatory garbage?

[11:55] Liz Esten: Yes.

[11:57] Andrew DeWolf: There's already a story called Saturday Night, and it's not... It's not good. It's Steven Sondheim.

[12:05] Liz Esten: But no, like, Nicholas Braun as Jim Henson, who's like, oh, they hung Big Bird up in my room, and I didn't like it. I was going to say he was doing Cousin Greg, but worse.

[12:16] Liz Esten: But, like, I don't know. He's a bad actor. He's, like, the least interesting part of Succession. And then they give him two roles with very iconic individuals, and he's failing at both.

[12:27] Andrew DeWolf: He's not playing Andy Kaufman, though.

[12:29] Liz Esten: Yes, he is.

[12:30] Andrew DeWolf: He's playing both.

[12:31] Liz Esten: And they don't know why.

[12:34] Andrew DeWolf: Okay. Alright, can we get back to Chapel?

[12:37] Jesse McAnally: Yes, back to Chapel Row. Not Chapelle Rowan, which I've heard other people, like incompetent YouTube horror YouTubers, say her name.

[12:45] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, Burn! Burn, figure out which one I'm talking about, bitches! We're on the cheese wheel! We're not real anymore! Like, four people just went, oh, shit.

[13:00] Jesse McAnally: Alright. So, I've heard a couple more things, actually. I was lying for the memes, okay? We're done lying, though. This is a truth-telling TV show experience on the internet. So, what we're going to do here.

[13:13] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, what we're going to do is we're going to tell the truth on, like, Mr. Beast. I heard that she had been trying to be successful for, like, a long time and had released a bunch of stuff, and none of it worked?

[13:26] Liz Esten: Kind of. She has released other EPs that have a wholly different vibe. And in interviews, she's even said, like, I respect that work, but, you know, I don't see myself in it anymore. That's not really what I do anymore. But I will occasionally perform them out of respect to 18-year-old me, who would have loved to have the opportunity to sing these songs in front of an audience, but I don't really see any connection with them. And if you've listened to some of them, like, because I will just turn on the Chaperone, you know, put this on shuffle for me, please. And it's not my shit. Like, it's a, I will skip those songs to get to the Pink Pony Clubs.

[14:11] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I think she said, uh, on record at least, that she hates her old songs because they're too sad and slow. And she figured it out when she recorded Pink Pony Club, which she actually wants to make. Like, what she actually wants to sound like.

[14:27] Liz Esten: Yeah.

[14:28] Andrew DeWolf: So, sad and slow is kind of a trend in pop music that I've noticed, uh, recently. I feel like, I feel like I would apply that label to, like, Billie Eilish and stuff like that, personally.

[14:41] Liz Esten: Parts of it, uh, there's a lot that isn't sad and slow, especially the song about eating out a girl for hours, uh, that is not sad or slow.

[14:50] Andrew DeWolf: I think that that was a trend for a while. I think Lana Del Rey started it, Billie Eilish alluped it, and now we're kind of at the end of that and we kind of want to have more Lady Gaga-esque, like, let's have fun at the club music.

[15:01] Liz Esten: Yeah.

[15:02] Andrew DeWolf: But we also have a lot more music just about female sexuality in a way that's blunt and to the point in a way it hasn't been in years. I mean, I think the operative example is probably, like, Jeannie in a Bottle from the 90s, or Christina Aguilera to work around the sex metaphor just because it wasn't marketable. And even, like, in Ariana Grande, like, 2015 has a whole song about how she took so much dick she can't walk anymore. Like, that's what's side to side is. Like, and now it's lunch and a lot of parts on Chapel Rowan, and there's a song called Touch Tank I listen to by Quinny quite a bit, which is just the least subtle song about eating out a woman that I've ever listened to.

[16:10] Liz Esten: Well, I agree with that. This album reminds me a lot of my favorite Lady Gaga album that no one else fucking likes, ARTPOP. People turn around on that.

[16:20] Andrew DeWolf: I'm so glad. That is, like, the only Lady Gaga album I constantly return to. But, like, every song about that is very blunt songs about fucking.

[16:29] Liz Esten: Yeah. But I also think my point's, like, female on female sexuality specifically. Like, there's been so many songs about men fucking women. There's, like, from women's perspective, from men's perspective, from whoever's perspective. There's not a lot of songs about women just fucking each other. And now there's a ton. And God bless them. God bless this 2024 we live in where we can sing about two ladies having sex, and it can become a hit. So.

[17:00] Andrew DeWolf: And well-deserved. And speaking of that, I want to know, why did this become a hit? Because you said this came out in September of last year, and it's a hit now. What's that about?

[17:14] Liz Esten: Well, Pink Pony Club, as a single, came out in 2020. Like, it goes even further back. I think Liz tried to show it to me when we were doing our Patreon with Cheese stuff on Tangled.

[17:27] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. No, I also meant to quote at a Chapel Run song recording at other podcasts we do, and you made a Muppets joke because you didn't understand what I was saying. So you just...

[17:35] Liz Esten: Not like me.

[17:35] Andrew DeWolf: So you didn't know what it was. And I'm like, no one understands my obsessions.

[17:43] Liz Esten: Well, I get it.

[17:45] Andrew DeWolf: So she was... Basically, she went to California with a record deal. The label did not understand Pink Pony Club and did not like it, and dropped her and that song from her record label. And then she was an independent artist and started doing openers for folks like Olivia Rodrigo and, you know, our favorite person, Ben Platt, she was an opener for. And that's kind of where these songs started picking up and people started listening. She drops the full album in 2023, and it didn't take off until early 2024. And I don't really know what the linchpin that caused it was. It was very likely the Coachella performance.

[18:32] Liz Esten: There we go.

[18:32] Andrew DeWolf: Coachella, she was not a headliner because she wasn't known, but she did so well. And the videos went online and people are like, she was the best. And the Good Luck Babe performance specifically went insanely viral because of her live vocals on that song. So that's what kickstarted it. And then she did the Gov Ball next, like a month or so later, and she dressed as the goddamn Statue of Liberty and came out in an apple that's a bong. And one of my co-workers saw that show live and I made him tell me about it for like 20 minutes on the job once. It's insane. And then she just kept going and she's been doing festivals all year. And that's where her traction is. I really feel bad because she came to Michigan, Kalamazoo, like a week before I got into her. And I was really angry because I could have gotten dirt cheap fucking tickets.

[19:21] Liz Esten: Oh, damn.

[19:22] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, you got screwed.

[19:24] Liz Esten: I did! Um, that being said, I would have gone to see this. And I saw a lot of the trend being like, don't bring your boyfriends to the Chaperone shows. And I'm like, I want to go to a Chaperone show. They look fun. Have you got dances? Have you seen that clip of all the men walking out of a special performance when Feminominon is playing?

[19:46] Andrew DeWolf: No.

[19:46] Liz Esten: What happened?

[19:47] Liz Esten: Basically, because that song is about how men can't please women because women are better. So all the straight boyfriends just walked out.

[19:55] Andrew DeWolf: What fucking beta cucks?

[19:57] Liz Esten: This is before straight people started to like Chaperone. So this is like way before. But it's a very famous clip that was circulating.

[20:05] Andrew DeWolf: I guess that that context does make sense. I was just like, I want to see her. She seems fun. These seem like a good time. I saw Lady Gaga drink an entire bottle of wine and dance the entire time. It was great.

[20:16] Liz Esten: Way to go admitting the songs about you, fellas.

[20:20] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, yeah. Honestly, it's true. But the thing is, it is nice to enjoy the music of someone and not have to enjoy the person. Not that I would enjoy it, but like the music comes first in a way that it doesn't for a lot of other artists. There's a lot of baggage with someone like Ariana Grande or Taylor Swift. And here it's kind of just fresh and just the music and it's pure and it's honest and it's embarrassing. Like a lot of these songs are deeply uncomfortably embarrassing things to admit where she looks like the bad guy. And it's not like an ironic. It is like specifically like my kink is karma is kind of like something that I don't think other people would admit. And I hate comparing it because they're very, very different artists. But Taylor Swift is nowhere near as secure enough to talk about the shit that is being talked about so openly and earnestly here. And we'll go into that in our second half. Taylor Swift's not open or honest enough to talk about fucking anything.

[21:26] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. I mean, she alludes. She's famous for alluding to things.

[21:30] Liz Esten: And the chap will just be like, yeah, I was in a casual relationship with this guy and I was like in love with him. And that was it. And that was like the whole song.

[21:37] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. And I love the vibe. I'm sorry. Go ahead.

[21:40] Liz Esten: Oh, just coffee is another one where she's like the entire song is about like, hey, I'm going to go meet up with my ex in New York and we're only getting coffee. And she's like, that's what I want to happen. But in real life, we went out for drinks and I fucked him.

[21:52] Andrew DeWolf: Is that what she said?

[21:53] Liz Esten: I'm pretty sure that was what they said. It's like it's what I wish had happened as opposed to what happened.

[21:57] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, what were you saying, Andrew?

[22:00] Andrew DeWolf: Well, I was just going to say the vibe I get from the lyrics is it's very. It's very punk rock.

[22:04] Liz Esten: In the real sense, because you used to say you hate punk rock because it isn't real.

[22:13] Andrew DeWolf: No, in the real sense. So I used to say I hate punk rock, but I was really talking about pop punk.

[22:19] Liz Esten: Yeah.

[22:19] Andrew DeWolf: You know, punk rock is real. It's just drunk and real. And I feel like this is drunk and real.

[22:26] Liz Esten: So, um, Liz, I think it's time for you to whip out the Chaperone trivia quiz that you prepared for me and Andrew.

[22:36] Liz Esten: Oh, I'm going to fucking lose.

[22:38] Andrew DeWolf: Previews today. We have Liz choose.

[22:42] Liz Esten: I don't know. There's no fucking way.

[22:44] Andrew DeWolf: Previews.

[22:45] Liz Esten: I know it's just because this is a wholly different game. This is a trivia contest. This is a very loosely structured game. We'll call this Wild Facts.

[22:55] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. Wild Facts!

[22:56] Liz Esten: Wild Facts with Liz! Let's go! We're bringing it back for the new show!

[23:00] Andrew DeWolf: Alright. This is a weird quiz. I made up by Googling a bunch of stuff about her and putting her in a note. So we're just going to make up some questions.

[23:10] Liz Esten: Alright. Let's start with the origins of her name. Let's go.

[23:14] Andrew DeWolf: That's an interesting one. So this is the origin of the Chaperone because her name is Kaylee Rose Amschwitz.

[23:22] Liz Esten: Amschwitz? That's how you say that?

[23:23] Andrew DeWolf: I think. I don't know how to say her last name to be perfectly genuine with you.

[23:26] Liz Esten: Okay.

[23:28] Andrew DeWolf: Amstutz.

[23:29] Liz Esten: That's what I said.

[23:30] Andrew DeWolf: Amstutz.

[23:30] Liz Esten: Amstutz.

[23:31] Andrew DeWolf: I'm not from Missouri.

[23:35] Liz Esten: Amstutz.

[23:37] Andrew DeWolf: Alright. So is her first part of her stage name in honor of her A, grandfather. B, grandmother. C, great aunt.

[23:49] Liz Esten: I'm sorry. Is this for both of us or is this for Jess?

[23:53] Andrew DeWolf: I can raise my hand and we can buzz in.

[23:54] Liz Esten: Yeah, buzz in.

[23:57] Andrew DeWolf: Alright.

[23:58] Liz Esten: Jess.

[24:00] Jesse McAnally: Grandmother.

[24:03] Andrew DeWolf: Alright, I'll try. I'll try.

[24:04] Liz Esten: Andrew.

[24:06] Andrew DeWolf: Great aunt.

[24:08] Liz Esten: It was her grandfather.

[24:09] Andrew DeWolf: What? Explain the context.

[24:11] Liz Esten: Okay. So the origins of her name is her stage name adapted in honor of her late grandfather, Dennis Chappell, and his favorite song, Marty Robbins, The Strawberry Roan. Down in the horse corral standing alone is an old caballo, a strawberry roan. His legs are all spab and he's got pigeon toes, little pig eyes and a big Roman nose.

[24:40] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, that's sweet.

[24:41] Liz Esten: That's cute, actually.

[24:45] Andrew DeWolf: Damn. I would never have gotten that ever in a million years.

[24:49] Liz Esten: I knew that way too soon into my Chappell Road fixation.

[24:53] Andrew DeWolf: Alright, or no, we're 0-0. You're still 0-0.

[24:56] Liz Esten: Okay.

[24:58] Andrew DeWolf: I'd say if you answer first, you should get two points. And if you answer second, you get one.

[25:01] Liz Esten: Okay, Mike Stoklasa over here with the bullshit ass rules.

[25:04] Andrew DeWolf: Alright.

[25:05] Liz Esten: It's not a bullshit rule. That's a real rule.

[25:06] Andrew DeWolf: I'm gonna make this one not multiple choice.

[25:09] Liz Esten: Okay.

[25:10] Andrew DeWolf: Alright, you're just gonna have to guess. When you Google Chappell Roan, what does it say in the did you mean section of Google?

[25:18] Liz Esten: Jess?

[25:19] Jesse McAnally: Dave Chappelle.

[25:21] Andrew DeWolf: No.

[25:22] Liz Esten: Does it say Kaylee Rose Amstutz?

[25:27] Andrew DeWolf: No, it says your favorite artist's favorite artist based on her famous viral Coachella speech where she said, my name is Chappell Roan, your favorite artist's favorite artist.

[25:36] Liz Esten: That's incredible. I love it.

[25:37] Andrew DeWolf: That's so funny. She later said on Jimmy Fallon, a shout out to the gay twink intern from Google who did that for me.

[25:43] Liz Esten: God bless you.

[25:47] Andrew DeWolf: And follow up question to that. I feel like I should have gotten that. Chappell Roan has said on record that quote is inspired by a drag queen that was on season 15 of RuPaul's Drag Race. Which one is it? A, Anitra. B, Sasha Colby. C, Mistress Isabel Brooks.

[26:35] Andrew DeWolf: Andrew is first.

[26:37] Andrew DeWolf: Mistress Isabel Brooks.

[26:39] Liz Esten: Fuck. I thought if I answered confidently enough it would just will it into being true.

[26:46] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[26:47] Liz Esten: B.

[26:48] Andrew DeWolf: Sasha Colby?

[26:50] Liz Esten: Yes.

[26:50] Andrew DeWolf: You're correct.

[26:53] Liz Esten: That's only one point.

[26:54] Andrew DeWolf: That's only one point because you guys are second.

[26:56] Liz Esten: That's one point.

[26:57] Andrew DeWolf: That's one more point than you got, bitch.

[26:58] Liz Esten: Here's some quick little lore for you. So Drag Race is a meet the queens thing. And so Sasha Colby said in hers, I'm Sasha Colby. I'm your favorite drag queen's favorite drag queen because she's very famous in the LA drag community and the trans community. So Chappell Roan loves her. So took the quote.

[27:16] Andrew DeWolf: Okay. What is the original title of Rise and Fall of the Midwest Princess?

[27:23] Liz Esten: Jess already knows it.

[27:25] Andrew DeWolf: Alright, Andrew.

[27:27] Andrew DeWolf: Is it Pink Pony Club?

[27:31] Liz Esten: No, Jess.

[27:32] Jesse McAnally: Just say it.

[27:33] Liz Esten: It was Pink Pony Club.

[27:34] Andrew DeWolf: No, it wasn't.

[27:35] Liz Esten: Oh, no. I know it. I know it. I know it.

[27:38] Andrew DeWolf: Feminominon.

[27:41] Liz Esten: That's correct. She changed it because no one could pronounce it.

[27:46] Andrew DeWolf: I gave it a try, you know?

[27:48] Liz Esten: Alright, here's a slightly weirder question. I'm just gonna give you a numbers question. I'm gonna do like two or three more after this.

[27:55] Andrew DeWolf: Okay. Sounds good.

[27:56] Liz Esten: How many views does the music video for My Kink is Karma have? I'm gonna give you three numbers.

[28:05] Andrew DeWolf: 10 million views.

[28:08] Liz Esten: 6.5 million views.

[28:11] Andrew DeWolf: 5.8 million views.

[28:14] Liz Esten: Jess.

[28:15] Jesse McAnally: A.

[28:16] Liz Esten: Wrong.

[28:16] Andrew DeWolf: 6.5.

[28:18] Liz Esten: 5.8.

[28:21] Andrew DeWolf: Really overestimated that one.

[28:23] Liz Esten: I guess that's not the big hit, so.

[28:26] Andrew DeWolf: No.

[28:27] Liz Esten: No, it's not. I'm trying to think of what other else Jess might not know because Jess knows too much and I put too much in here, he knows.

[28:33] Andrew DeWolf: I know too many things!

[28:36] Liz Esten: My brain has too much! I know what Jess won't know.

[28:39] Andrew DeWolf: Okay.

[28:39] Liz Esten: So, very famously, Chaperone drinks a very famous brand of soda on her single cover for Casual and she got a lot of crap for it. What is that soda? A. Starry. B. Dr. Pepper. C. Baja Blast.

[28:51] Jesse McAnally: I think it's Baja Blast.

[28:53] Liz Esten: It's Baja Blast. She got a lot of crap for it, but she loves Baja Blast.

[28:57] Andrew DeWolf: Why didn't she get more crap for Papa John?

[29:06] Liz Esten: Oh, don't give a shit about that anymore.

[29:08] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, the funniest thing, I saw an interview with her a thousand years ago where they were like, why Papa John? She's like, I don't know, it's just pizza. If I had known that people were going to just bring me that for the rest of my life, I would have picked better.

[29:18] Liz Esten: Papa John's had that fucking meltdown, right? Like, he stopped running at it.

[29:23] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, he had a racist meltdown, yeah.

[29:28] Liz Esten: He should have picked my personal favorite from the Northeast, Papa Gino's. Shout out to all the people that know about Papa Gino's.

[29:37] Andrew DeWolf: If you're a Midwest princess, Little Caesars is it.

[29:40] Liz Esten: You guys even like that.

[29:43] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, Liz, I'm sorry you did. But Andrew, you liked that when you came down to Michigan, and the guy that owns Little Caesars paid Rosa Parks' house the entire rest of her life.

[29:53] Liz Esten: He's not a bad guy. He's like one of those weird billionaires that's ethical.

[29:57] Andrew DeWolf: Hit it like Rumpelstiltskin, get it hot like Little Caesars.

[30:01] Liz Esten: That sounds terrible.

[30:03] Jesse McAnally: Jess, I just gotta say, I was so fucking drunk when I ate that Little Caesars. I don't know if we can say that I like Little Caesars.

[30:10] Andrew DeWolf: You said it was like the best pizza you ever ate.

[30:13] Liz Esten: Jess, I had just drank like fucking 10 ciders in a row in like two hours.

[30:18] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I know, I saw how drunk he was.

[30:21] Liz Esten: I saw how drunk he was.

[30:23] Andrew DeWolf: You guys sung that Grease song very drunkenly. I still have a screenshot from that where y'all look very happy and drunk on my desktop that I meant to keep meaning to send to Jess, but I keep forgetting. But anyway.

[30:36] Liz Esten: We almost ended Jess's life that night.

[30:39] Andrew DeWolf: True.

[30:40] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[30:41] Liz Esten: I was gonna say, since Jess very clearly won this random trivia game I made up like 10 minutes ago.

[30:46] Andrew DeWolf: I am the beater.

[30:47] Liz Esten: I'm gonna end this trivia game with a little story that I like to tell. So Chaperone, when she was touring kind of independently, she would reach out to drag artists to be her opener, which is a thing Orville Peck also does. He's also a queer country artist who like wears a mask. You'll recognize him if you see him.

[31:09] Andrew DeWolf: I know him.

[31:10] Liz Esten: Yeah.

[31:11] Andrew DeWolf: He's my uncle.

[31:12] Liz Esten: Orville Peck.

[31:14] Andrew DeWolf: He's not just his uncle.

[31:15] Liz Esten: No, not just his uncle at all. I think they're the same age. I saw him on the drag queen make a house show on HGTV.

[31:22] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, Trixie Motel.

[31:23] Liz Esten: Yeah, he's been on a couple episodes.

[31:25] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, yeah. I saw that because my mom put it on for some reason and she didn't know it was happening, but I saw him. He has a weird mask.

[31:30] Liz Esten: He does, yeah. But anyway, Chaperone was in the UK and her opener was a drag queen named Crayola. Her name was Crayola. And she was backstage getting her makeup on. And at the time, she's kind of insecure about being a drag performer thing. And then Crayola comes up and he's like, Bitch, you're a drag. You're a drag queen. Never deny that. And to this, and that's Chaperone tells the story a few times. And it's like, that's how I know I'm a drag performer. Like, because Crayola told me and confirmed what I thought. So.

[32:08] Andrew DeWolf: Um, drag queens are not on monoliths. Okay, we can get a whole debate about drag, but I'll put fucking drag race on my sections of the wheel and we can fucking talk about it.

[32:18] Liz Esten: I just love the idea of claiming drag queens are not a monolith.

[32:22] Andrew DeWolf: She did. They do not speak for the rest of us.

[32:24] Liz Esten: You mean Crayola doesn't speak for you?

[32:27] Andrew DeWolf: Nah.

[32:28] Jesse McAnally: Alright, I'm not going to pretend to know anything about drag, but where's all the drag kings at?

[32:32] Liz Esten: Uh, they're there. But the drag community is kind of weird and sexist about them because they're mostly like played by cis women. So.

[32:38] Andrew DeWolf: What's wrong with that?

[32:43] Liz Esten: Uh, I don't know. It's a whole thing. Drag kings.

[32:46] Andrew DeWolf: Isn't that the point?

[32:47] Liz Esten: Yeah.

[32:47] Andrew DeWolf: Drag kings don't get enough representation.

[32:48] Liz Esten: It's weird. I could get into it, but it's really complicated and I'm not qualified.

[32:52] Andrew DeWolf: Prosthetic chins.

[32:54] Liz Esten: Uh, no, they don't. They wear me.

[32:56] Andrew DeWolf: I know too much about drag to make this a joke conversation.

[33:01] Liz Esten: I'm just, I'm goofing.

[33:02] Andrew DeWolf: Look up Landon Cider on Instagram. On that note, uh, how about we go into a mid show and then talk about, uh, every song on this fucking album?

[33:19] Andrew DeWolf: Hey guys, sorry to interrupt you in the middle of the show, but we've got a show for you. Today's show is brought to you by the extremely kind donation by our donors over at Patreon. Andrew, tell us a wee little bit about Patreon, what's going on there and what's the exciting things we got coming up there.

[33:34] Andrew DeWolf: Oh man, Patreon's where you can go to support us and get extra content and also have direct impact on our show now. Like, well, you used to be able to as well, but now you can do it even more than before. I believe we're going to start having, uh, the ability to watch the show while they're being recorded. Is that, is that true?

[33:50] Jesse McAnally: Yep.

[33:50] Andrew DeWolf: Is that a rumor?

[33:52] Jesse McAnally: Five dollar and up patrons will be able to be involved in this show as it's being recorded. In fact, we will let, answer patron questions during this mid show and it'll be a fun old time and you, you get to see our beautiful faces as we record this and it'll be a much more calm response kind of thing we got going on. I don't know why I became a southern preacher though.

[34:08] Andrew DeWolf: Because we're in Minnesota right now.

[34:13] Jesse McAnally: We're in Minnesota and I'm a midwest princess. And of course you will still get access to all of our old commentaries and any new commentaries we do and everything like that. And we're not limited to just musicals now, so we can do wild shit. Want us to do a scary godmother commentary? We can do it.

[34:28] Liz Esten: Please, please have me on for that.

[34:32] Andrew DeWolf: We, maybe that'll be a real episode. Who knows? Oh, and also like we're going to let patron, Patreon gets to pick a episode every month, I think. Every fifth episode will be a Patreon pick. Our first Patreon pick from Toriana Frazier is going to be the Pride and Prejudice film starring Keira Knightley and Matthew McFadyen. That will be coming up pretty soon. And then we are currently in flux on what our next choice is. So join Patreon now so you can get your voice heard.

[34:58] Andrew DeWolf: Alright, I'm going to read it.

[34:59] Liz Esten: Oh, well, and then I guess the last perk is we'll read your fucking name in the mid-show every episode. So our current patrons are Jess The Stampede, Ewan Cassidy, Monica Theroux, Brent Black, Daniel Stacey Coombe, Mary Lou Choquette, John Vanelles, Russ Walker, Musical Hell, Emily Gracie, Kyle Summers, Janae C, Scootin' the Technicolor Dreamcoat, Nothing is Certain Except Beth and Taxes, John Vanelles, Thezbian, Mitchell Young, Chai Teacup, Tris Marcote, Kijimri Anastasio, Trevi Joseph, RJ Noriega, Julia McLannan, Joe, Bjorn Hermans, Toriana Frazier, Sammy the Adequate of Mount Jacobson, Kaylee Blazier, Villainous Miss, The Omega Geek, Paige Pearson, Maddie Wargel, Eliza Erdman, Annie Loscatova, Sarah Den Blaker, Evan Balls, Zachary Torres, Roro Maraso, Mara, Lisa L., Possessed Washing Machine, Nick Roten, Puffy Boy, Sidney Hicks, Billy Clifton, Gold Plated Kikimora, Aria Ardy, Emma, Kara Balda, JRL Studios, Katherine Shawcross, Alexandra Dom, B.T. McMenemy.

[36:48] Andrew DeWolf: Um we can save that we're on a new podcast now um let's get back to the show.

[37:02] Jesse McAnally: Alright, what a fucking opening to this show with feminine omina you mean album anything like but yes can you play a song with a fucking b.

[37:09] Andrew DeWolf: This is my favorite I want song to any musical.

[37:33] Liz Esten: I want to eat pussy because it's better than men.

[37:40] Andrew DeWolf: It really is.

[37:45] Jesse McAnally: Truly, I guess coming from a straight man that's a straight man definitely.

[37:55] Liz Esten: Yeah, you know what I relate so hard to this album because I also like having sex with women.

[38:13] Andrew DeWolf: Jess walks in he's like, hey fellow lesbians.

[38:18] Liz Esten: Hi! I don't know why that was the funniest thing I can think of.

[38:20] Jesse McAnally: This lesbian bar doesn't have any fire exits. Enjoy your death trap, ladies.

[38:29] Andrew DeWolf: It's about the difference between having sexuals with women over having sexuals with men and how it's a feminine omen on. And you know what? I bet it is better.

[38:36] Liz Esten: Yeah, I don't know. It's like bangs. I'm throwing it out there.

[38:40] Andrew DeWolf: There's like one aspect that I don't love, but I think a lot of people do love it. And it's just the repeating joke of the I want you to play the beat or whatever and then you're fucking wrong.

[38:50] Liz Esten: That's the best part!

[38:56] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, I actually don't like that part. I still like the song.

[39:01] Liz Esten: I mean, Liz, I don't know if you agree, but my favorite part of the song is the part where it's just like, you know, a weird monologue in the middle.

[39:06] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, then get it, hit it like, get it hot, make a bitch.

[39:12] Liz Esten: It's a femme no, it's like the end part where it's like, you know, like, it's, it becomes an unhinged discord call of you, you know what I mean? And you know, you know what you need and so does he.

[39:21] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, but does it happen? No, that doesn't happen.

[39:25] Liz Esten: No, but what we really need is a feminine nominon.

[39:27] Andrew DeWolf: What a feminine right into Poland, hit it like, oh, I love it. I love everything this, I love everything about this. It's got a fucking Barbie vibe to it.

[39:36] Jesse McAnally: Well, it's not the song that they wrote. She was trying to get into Barbie, but there is one of those in it in this album that she tried to get onto the Barbie soundtrack.

[39:47] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, what a stretch. Oh, I love this song though. It fucking slaps. It's amazing and I have no comment further because I'm in a relationship with a man. I just think it's great and it's like sets a tone for this album so perfectly. Like as an intro, it is like it starts strong and I think this more than Pink Pony Club, more than Hot To Go is the penultimate Chaperone song.

[40:14] Liz Esten: I don't agree with that.

[40:21] Andrew DeWolf: The penultimate? No, no, no, I don't agree with that.

[40:28] Liz Esten: Okay, like I think it's the one that is kind of like a tone setter. Like if you're into this, you're gonna like what you're gonna get afterwards.

[40:35] Andrew DeWolf: It's definitely a tone setter. I don't think it's like the penultimate peak Chaperone song. I think it's...

[40:39] Liz Esten: I think what I mean by that is like the cliché one, like the one that you think like when you think Chaperone, this is kind of what you're thinking.

[40:44] Andrew DeWolf: I think it depends who you are listening to, but I'll get into it later once you get to that song.

[40:44] Liz Esten: That's fine, yeah. I think it's a good opener. It's a great opener. Incredible song. I think like if you open with this at a concert and this is the first thing you open up with, the audience's participation, it's all, I feel like that'd be really incredible.

[41:00] Andrew DeWolf: It's important to open strong, but then we got Red Wine Supernova, which is kind of just a chill chiller kind of, you know, like we're getting into it gay anthem.

[41:25] Liz Esten: Me.

[41:45] Andrew DeWolf: Um, I feel like this is another thing with pop music for me. I don't always hear lyrics correctly the first time.

[41:52] Liz Esten: You're in the club, man. Welcome to the club.

[41:56] Andrew DeWolf: I never hear right, right? Like I'm so stupid. Like she talks about bringing this girl home and she's got roommates and a twin queen size, a twin bed and roommates, and I thought she said mermaids for so long.

[42:14] Liz Esten: I also thought she said mermaids.

[42:21] Andrew DeWolf: Don't worry, we're cool.

[42:41] Liz Esten: That's the only thing. But then we got some really funny wordplay. Like, I hate to call it son Timmy because, you know, that's me being my escape. We can't escape. But like it builds up to like really clever wordplay, like proper like musical theater style wordplay when we get to the shut up. I heard you like magic, so I got a wand and a rabbit, so baby, let's get freaky, get kinky, and let bed get squeaky. Like that is kind of that son time internal rhyme plus a bunch of puns. Like I loved it, but double entendre. But there's also a line that says you just told me you want me to fuck you, baby, I will because I really want to just, um, yeah, right. That's great. I don't have any problem with that. I know I love it. That's just funny. I love it. The only part I don't love is just how kind the chorus kind of is like romantic in a weird way. I don't have a better way to describe it. Like baby, why don't you come over Red Wine Supernova falling into me? Like it just feels very kind of like slower, a little bit more pretty.

[43:52] Andrew DeWolf: Well, I think what's good with a lot of these songs and with this song in particular is she writes a catchy melody, which is really important for pop music. If you don't have that good chorus melody, it does not matter what the rest of your song is like. And you know that, like, that's like good. It's catchy, you know, it's like it's simple, but it's that's what it is, you know?

[44:10] Liz Esten: I also think context is kind of important for this. I think honestly, it's important for a lot of this album because we know a lot of the context. It's very like you feel a lot more Chaperone wrote this and a song we'll get to later, Naked in Manhattan, nodding having kissed a girl before. So she's just fantasizing like what it'd be like to be with a woman. She's only been with men at this point in her life, but she wants to pursue women, but that's kind of nerve-wracking because like flirting with a woman is very different than flirting with a man. Girl's too pretty.

[44:39] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, for the man, just is like talking them for two seconds and then you're good. Like women, it's a whole different ballgame. So she, the romanticness of the chorus is very much her imagining what would be like to be with a woman. Like she doesn't know what it's like. She's kind of questioning it like what would it feel like.

[44:44] Liz Esten: So that's the vibe I get from the chorus. So she's like wondering what it's like.

[44:49] Andrew DeWolf: Now coffee. This is a musical theater song.

[45:17] Jesse McAnally: Every place leads back to your place.

[45:21] Andrew DeWolf: Is...

[45:32] Liz Esten: That may be true.

[45:37] Andrew DeWolf: Here come the excuses that fuel the illusions, but I'd rather feel something.

[45:46] Liz Esten: But nothing at all.

[46:04] Andrew DeWolf: It would be... I'll meet you for a coffee, only for a coffee. Nowhere else is safe. Every place leads back to...

[46:19] Liz Esten: Come on, man. We can't escape. He won't talk about musical theater for 10 seconds. Narrative. This is a narrative.

[46:25] Andrew DeWolf: Just when I thought I got out, he keeps pulling me back in.

[46:31] Liz Esten: Yeah, a lot of these songs are narratives. Casual is a fucking movie. Like casual is also one I feel like if you took this album and did the jagged little pill thing but good, you might have something.

[46:42] Andrew DeWolf: No, please no one please do that. No one please do that. Please keep it as is. Don't make it a musical. Do a Chappell Chappell Chappell just focus on your current music please.

[47:04] Liz Esten: Give it to Andrew Lippa. Write a concept album. Write a concept album like just do whatever you want. Just like hadestown is a concept album. It's true. Turned it into a musical. Just write what you want to write, girl. I support you.

[47:04] Andrew DeWolf: Well, isn't anything you really... I, yeah, as long as you have the passion in it because obviously those first few albums, not a fan.

[47:14] Liz Esten: The first thing you do, studio wants right with the studio. Studio wants no, no, the studio's letting your f card botch. But coffee is a song. It's kind of darker. It's kind of more depressing. It's about being in New York and your ex is there and you want to meet them, but you only want to do coffee because if you meet a bar, you'll probably fuck them. And if you meet them anywhere else, you'll probably fuck them. So just coffee, keep it casual. But like it could, it really does feel hand in hand with casual as that feeling, you know what I mean?

[47:41] Andrew DeWolf: I do want to tell a quick story about Chapel Roan. How she was like, yeah, yeah, I did a coffee. I was wrote the song while I was working in a coffee shop. And you know, I would just go to the bathroom and take nudes and send them to people and then go back and check out and keep taking orders. She's like, there's something horny about a coffee place. I don't know.

[48:02] Liz Esten: That is why I love her so. And she connected that to a future song called Picture You. But we got a lot of songs to talk about. Let's talk about casual next, which I ruined by quoting in our opening. I like this one. I like this one quite a bit actually. I am obsessed with this one.

[48:12] Andrew DeWolf: It's casual if it's casual now.

[48:38] Liz Esten: Baby, give me hope again. If it's casual, it's casual now.

[48:49] Andrew DeWolf: I think that the chorus in this one is very catchy. It's got a good feel to it. And I don't know, it's fun. I know that this has been picked apart to death on the TikToks. What is the physics of eating someone out knee deep in a passenger seat? You two tell me. I don't fucking know.

[49:03] Liz Esten: You're like, you're like sitting on the floor and your legs are under the seat. So your knees are like literally sticking out the other side.

[49:10] Andrew DeWolf: So this is me in the passenger seat and then a human.

[49:16] Liz Esten: There's not enough room or maybe I'm just too fat to imagine myself down there.

[49:23] Andrew DeWolf: But you're not on your knees. You're sitting on your butt. You back the seat up too.

[49:28] Liz Esten: Okay, because that's what TikTok was telling me, but my brain and tell me this is wrong.

[49:33] Andrew DeWolf: I was imagining the car is pulled over. The car door is open. You're in the passenger seat. Your feet are hanging out the car door. Like that makes more sense to me. And I don't know why.

[49:39] Liz Esten: Wait, then you're not knee deep in the seat though. You're not knee deep in the passenger seat. God damn, you're right. You're so right.

[49:43] Andrew DeWolf: You're also on the knees. Knee deep in the passenger seat. Maybe, I don't know.

[49:52] Liz Esten: Okay, because this is... The reason why I ask is because Chappell said this is one of the few things that are like one-to-one was saying she did. I'm more like the how did you do? She didn't say that. Yes, she did. Yeah, she did. She said that in the album breakdown with the guy that asked terrible questions, the Papa's one. Yeah, yeah, it wasn't a long time ago. He also said she was very nervous about that specific lyric. And she thinks it's a very nice line. I'm so sorry I got my fact wrong. I wrote down my fact wrong. She was nervous about that, how crass that lyric would be. And it's not based on reality. It's just a pretty line.

[50:45] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, in her own words. Yeah, I was gonna say I thought it was she made that up. She said it's not based on real life experience. When is the difference between when something is casual and it's real? Chapel has their own answers, but I was wondering what your guys' like answers are. I know we've most, but all three of us have basically been dating the same person for most of our fucking dating life, but whatever. What is that line for you guys?

[51:03] Liz Esten: I don't know if there is like a hard line. I feel like it's all vibes based. I don't, I feel like it'd be kind of like how many people in their life I've met and have a relationship with. Like when you meet their mom.

[51:21] Andrew DeWolf: No, it's even like how many of their friends I've met. Like am I a person they talk about with their... I don't know. I've been doing something for fucking eight years, so like I don't know.

[51:33] Liz Esten: You want like a real hard line? It's when you move in.

[51:38] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, that's interesting. I think my hard line because that's you're thinking I'm between casual and you know you're my person because I feel like once you're moved in, that's a little too far. I'd say, you know, when you're invited to a family event like a wedding and you're their official plus one, I feel like that's it.

[51:55] Liz Esten: I can see that. See, I moved in before that ever happened.

[51:00] Andrew DeWolf: Amazing. So Chapel Roan describes it, the transition is when you can like hear them pooping and still want to be with them.

[52:09] Liz Esten: Yeah, you know what? Fair. Yeah, I make sure that happens on day one. You know, hey, listen to something, come here. Oh God, I would break up straight man, am I right? Straight men, y'all straight men.

[52:30] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know about you. There are some ladies I've met that are like first meeting you are hardcore farting around you.

[52:37] Liz Esten: I burp a lot, so I get it. I get it.

[52:41] Andrew DeWolf: I did want to talk about something in this song. Let's go, Liz. Okay, so the one thing I really like about Chapel Roan is she is very specific with her detailing in a way that I think connects with specifically women and a lot of brawlers and also men and whoever else is listening to it. But like one of my favorite very specific lines is in the bridge of the song, which is it's hard being casual and my favorite bra lives in your dresser. That's such a specific thing. Like your favorite bra is a precious piece of gold. It's like the best thing you own basically and it costs you probably too much money. And if it's that serious, like my God. Also, I do like like this whole bridge of casual is fantastic and like all the detail work she does just set a scene is so good. So good. Even in coffee where she's just listing the places they might go to. Like it's very much like a text conversation with the ex and you're hearing it. Like it's just her specificity is so good. Even in like Naked in Manhattan, it's amazing. So I think that's what separates her from a lot of pop music nowadays.

[54:00] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, also, I also do want to point out how fucking this outro fucking slaps when you scream it in your car. It's so much fun to scream in your car. I highly recommend it. 10 out of 10. I agree. This is probably definitely one of my favorite songs. And I know we're all gonna have to list our favorite at the end of this, but the more I go on, the more I'm like, oh yeah, I love this one and I love this one. And it's like, I feel ridiculous because they're all so good to listen to. But we got to move on because we're only so long. Super graphic ultra modern girl.

[54:22] Andrew DeWolf: Wow.

[54:52] Liz Esten: Like me. So many people love this song. It is definitely a song that they prompted to like be in the Barbie movie, as they admitted themselves. Very Lady Gaga, very self-empowerment, confident in my own skin. Disney Channel energy, maybe. Not to be not in a dismissive way, but it does feel like, you know, a little camp rocky, maybe not that far.

[55:19] Andrew DeWolf: No, no, no, it's not camp rocky. It's lemonade mouthy. So it's a little less cringy.

[55:25] Liz Esten: It's like she's so gone from lemonade mouth. It just hits. I like it, but I don't love it as much as everyone else seems to like. Everyone really seems to latch on to this one, and this one is fine. I like the chorus, really.

[55:30] Andrew DeWolf: I didn't know this was one of the more popular ones because, yeah, this kind of felt like a, like, it's alright.

[55:42] Liz Esten: Yeah, it really, this one did feel more like a classic pop song, like just traditional pop with no frills. It feels ready to just be at gay clubs, and that's why they wrote it because if you imagine you're at a club with just like tons of gay dudes around you, like it kind of slaps.

[56:06] Andrew DeWolf: I do want to say this is the one that the influence that gave her the title was like an HGTV show where she heard the host describe a wall pattern as like, oh, this is super graphic ultra modern, and she wrote that down as like, that's a fun word.

[56:12] Liz Esten: Do interior decorators would just make up words? It's absurd.

[56:18] Andrew DeWolf: Oh yeah, this is super graphic ultra modern.

[56:25] Liz Esten: Yeah, it's so modern, but it's also old.

[56:31] Andrew DeWolf: Is that like a movement? Like, is that like, is there a super graphic ultra modernist movement? Is that a thing?

[56:38] Liz Esten: No, okay, it's a thing.

[56:40] Andrew DeWolf: No, I think it's Hot To Go.

[57:09] Liz Esten: Oh.

[57:13] Andrew DeWolf: Do the dance.

[57:17] Liz Esten: You can take me Hot To Go. It's too catchy. There's like, I honestly, I feel like there's nothing else to this song but how catchy it is, but it's too catchy that you can't deny it.

[57:30] Andrew DeWolf: My favorite bits of wholesome Chaperone lore is all the security guards at her shows going to fans being, hey, can you teach me that Hot To Go dance? I want to do it.

[57:39] Liz Esten: Like, I want to be involved. And it's like, oh my God, that's so cute.

[57:43] Andrew DeWolf: So how do you, what's the dance? I've never seen the dance.

[57:50] Liz Esten: You can take me Hot To Go and you go roll your hands on your body like Hot. So it's like the YMCA mixed with the Macarena.

[57:58] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, I'm turning my camera off for a second.

[58:05] Liz Esten: So it's you can take me Hot To Go and you go down your whole body.

[58:11] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I would have such a blast doing this. I want to have fun and enjoy things. Well, the line that really sticks with me in it is call me hot, not pretty. And I feel that. I feel like in my life I've never been described that way. I'm like, oh, you're, I get cute more often than my life. And I'm like, oh yeah, that is something I want to be called more often than never.

[58:29] Liz Esten: In her own quote, it's that it's about how I want people to call me hot, not pretty because in high school I was like, oh, she's not hot, but she's pretty. But I still don't want to be called hot. It's weird. It's the dichotomy that's so confusing to me sometimes, but people take it literally and manifests in ways of I feel really uncomfortable watching sex scenes. I feel like I'm such a weird flirter because I get really self-conscious. But the Chapel version of me is not scared of any of that.

[58:53] Andrew DeWolf: My favorite part about this song is the music video where she has her grandparents do the Hot To Go dance and they never find out what the contents of the song is because they don't, she doesn't want them to know because they're conservative and Christian like the whole of her family.

[59:02] Liz Esten: Yes, they would, if they even, if they listened to it, I doubt they'd even get any of it. There's literally a song, there's literally lines in Baby, do you like this beat? I made it so you'd sleep with me. Grandparents are oblivious, okay?

[59:16] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, their media analysis skills are so poor that they believe Fox News is real.

[59:24] Liz Esten: Yeah, mine's got years. Top that. Mine are fucking in the ground so they can't even listen to Chaperone.

[59:31] Andrew DeWolf: My kink is karma. I think this is my favorite one because it's like the most super villainy, but my kink is watching you.

[59:41] Liz Esten: Why? You dye it your hair. People say I'm jealous, but my kink is horrible. You cross it, it's your car. You break it, it's your heart. You think that I care. People say I'm jealous, but my kink is horrible.

[1:00:04] Andrew DeWolf: Explain super villainy for this one.

[1:00:07] Liz Esten: This one is all about how she wants her ex to be miserable. Like, and how much joy it brings her that her ex is miserable.

[1:00:14] Andrew DeWolf: I feel this song on a spiritual level. I think that's gonna say it. I have an evil ex and I hate him and I feel this song.

[1:00:22] Liz Esten: Did your boyfriend have to defeat him?

[1:00:26] Andrew DeWolf: No, no, my boyfriend didn't have to defeat him. He just gave him a lot of death glares in college.

[1:00:29] Liz Esten: It's just like wanting the worst for them in every way. You know, it's great.

[1:00:38] Andrew DeWolf: You can't base your own satisfaction on someone else's misery, though. You're bound to get disappointed.

[1:00:43] Liz Esten: It's not even that, though, to the argument of this song. It's mostly of you live your life, you get your own sense of satisfaction. But in the back of your head, you're thinking like, I hope that jackass is suffering. Like, you move on. Then you look him up on Facebook and he invested in crypto at the right time and now he's a billionaire.

[1:00:59] Andrew DeWolf: Well, that might happen. But the point really is, it's not to linger on, like, I want my ex to be sad. It's a, hey, I fucking hate him. I'm gonna move on and be better than him and I hope he's miserable while I am doing fantastic. So it's more like that energy.

[1:01:17] Liz Esten: But it's so fun.

[1:01:18] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, it's a lot of fun, too. I'm just putting too much meaning into it. Like, literally in her music video, she's dressed as the devil. Like, she knows what she's doing here.