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[0:04] Jess: Hello and welcome to Musicals with Cheese.

[0:06] Jess: And today I am interviewing a very special guest. Please welcome playwright, actor, and badass, Sarah Elizabeth Grace, whose play The Regime is Female, played November 1st and November 17th at the Tank Theater.

[0:20] Jess: Thank you for joining me, Sarah.

[0:22] Sarah Elizabeth Grace: My pleasure.

[0:25] Jess: Alright, so can you tell me a little bit about the play? I have a premise write-up, but I feel like you'd say it a lot better than I would.

[0:33] Sarah Elizabeth Grace: Oh, sure, yes. The log line. Um, so the long and short of it is that it is a dystopia or utopia, depending on your gender identity. Um, it is a story about generational feminism and it's full of stunts and love, and it's a sexy, scary show. Um, it's set in 2028, where basically you could think after a certain election in 2016, America turned into a dictatorship. And then after about 10 years of that, a virus was released that wiped out about two-thirds of the male population. And then a revolution happened, and now women and non-binary people are in charge. And anyone caught performing a white supremacist or patriarchal act is tried, and if they are found guilty, they can either take a lethal injection or meet with the specialist, which is the character I play, who executes people with her bare hands.

She lives isolated in an undisclosed location with her ex-congressman father, and the first cis male government member becomes her new sort of assistant because her assistant that she's had for the last year and a half is now moving up in the ranks after being mentored by my character. And even though this man has taken a vow of abstinence, my poor character, who's only just been killing people alone for a year and a half, starts feeling some feels and things take a turn.

[2:07] Jess: She catches feels.

[2:08] Sarah Elizabeth Grace: Oh no.

[2:09] Jess: That sounds incredible. I this is I'm looking at the images currently on the website, and it's just you covered in blood.

[2:19] Sarah Elizabeth Grace: Yes, we have to update it now that we have production photos, but there is no blood in the show itself, but it is very violent. We worked with a violence coordinator who is a working stuntman who has performed in such TV shows as Gotham and Daredevil and Maniac and the Blacklist and Ninja Turtles. And so we did real stunts on stage, and the audience was very like, how do you not break your body every night? And I'm like lots of practice and lots of Epsom salt baths.

[2:54] Jess: Now, how long did it take you to write this piece?

[2:58] Sarah Elizabeth Grace: Um, so my director once commented that I go to the bathroom and I come out with a script. So my turnaround time is pretty fast. I started writing the first draft of The Regime is Female right after my previous play, Implied Consent, closed in October of 2018. And so we had about a first draft, worked through a couple different drafts. We had a workshop in March of this year, March 2019, and then we started doing a few little rewrites and getting into production over the summer and started rehearsals in the fall for a November 1st opening. So pretty quick.

[3:35] Jess: And what was your initial spark that was like, alright, that the domino effect that led you to write this piece?

[3:42] Sarah Elizabeth Grace: Um, well, I like to call The Regime is Female a love-hate letter to the patriarchy, because as a cisgender heterosexual, mostly heterosexual woman of a certain millennial age, I kind of feel both like trying to buck all these sort of social norms and conditioning of wanting male attention and wanting, you know, male validation, but also knowing that like that's a bunch of bullshit and we should all be free from that kind of conditioning and, you know, having my identity be outside of, you know, my relationship to my dad or my relationship to a boyfriend or things like that. So that was one thing. Um, I also, you know, living in New York City, being a pretty liberal town and being a theater artist in New York City, that's also very liberal and progressive.

Knowing that, okay, if we're gonna talk about what's going on right now, how much further, like saying Trump is bad is like saying water is wet, right? So how far can we go so that when people leave the theater, they're having a conversation or they're thinking to themselves, okay, what would I do in that situation, or what did I think was okay and not okay in this play in terms of my personal relationship to my ideals? How much would I compromise, you know, in terms of total control so that I could have my things that I believe in come true? And how much is how far is too far? How extreme is too extreme? Um, and having that kind of personal grappling as opposed to being like, well, the good guys are good and the bad guys are bad, and I feel nice and cozy. Like, you know, we don't go to the theater to feel nice and cozy. We watch Parks and Rec on Netflix for the 15th time to feel nice and cozy, right?

[5:26] Jess: Mm-hmm.

[5:28] Sarah Elizabeth Grace: The old Sondheim adage, they don't want you to go back and lay it back. They want you to lean forward and pay attention.

[5:35] Jess: Yes, and I freaking love Sondheim.

[5:37] Sarah Elizabeth Grace: Um, so I mean, who doesn't, right?

[5:40] Jess: Um, and also I throughout all my work, I am very passionate about making sure that we have gender parity in terms of equal male and female or non-binary roles, which we did with this. We had two cis men and we had one gender non-binary character and one cis female character, which is my character, and also having those cis female characters be someone we haven't seen before. A lot of times we have anti-heroes that are fascinating to watch that we don't necessarily like, like characters like Tony Soprano and Walter White and Don Draper, but we don't really see a lot of that same sort of women roles. We have the quote strong female character like Sarah Connor, like Buffy Summers, right? But we don't really have that kind of complicated anti-hero role with women.

And so that was really important to me as well to create something like that where we could see this person who was very strong and powerful, um, but also very self-centered and short-sighted when it came to her emotional literacy, which we see a lot with male characters, but we don't get to see so much with female characters. So I know that that was something people responded very strongly to when they came and saw the piece, especially women, but also men too. I think we I think everyone benefits from that. My sort of log line with women is that, uh, or sorry, my log line as a playwright is that women are just as human as men, which means we're just as fucked up as men, and I wanna showcase that.

[7:03] Jess: Brilliant.

[7:04] Jess: And what would you say were your biggest inspirations as a writer for this piece?

[7:09] Sarah Elizabeth Grace: Um, well, I think my biggest inspirations for this piece would be, I mean, it'd be hard to not say Why the Last Man, which is a graphic novel written by Brian K. Vaughn, which has a similar sort of premise where all the men are suddenly dead from a virus, except for this one man, which is different than ours. It's not all the men, it's just two-thirds of people who have XY chromosomes. Um, so Why the Last Man was definitely an inspiration. The Emily Blunt character in the film Edge of Tomorrow was a big inspiration for me. Also, I think Buffy the Vampire Slayer is a big piece of inspiration that continues to be sort of like the foundation of everything that I do, for better or for worse. Um, and a graphic novel called Sweet Tooth by Jeff Lemire is also a nice dystopic piece.

And I think Black Mirror is also something that was a big influence. And I'd also say, in a way, The Handmaid's Tale, if we were to kind of gender flip The Handmaid's Tale a bit. Um, and yeah, and then there's a lot of things from my personal upbringing that kind of weaved their way in there. And um, one of the characters, the cis man who's in government, the one that I have feels for, I wrote for the actor because he's always playing villains, because as in his words, he said, you know, I'm a decent looking white guy in my 30s, so I should definitely be the bad guy in everything, you know. It's he said, It's our time to be the bad guy. I'm okay with that. So I wanted to write something for him where he wasn't the bad guy because he has a lot more to offer in terms of acting.

[8:49] Jess: Alright, so we're gonna go a little back in time with this next question. And it's how would you describe yourself, your art, and your artistic goals to those who may not have seen any of your work so far?

[9:01] Sarah Elizabeth Grace: Well, that's such a big question.

[9:05] Jess: I know.

[9:06] Sarah Elizabeth Grace: I know, my goodness. Um, I think my mission statement, even before I started writing, because I've been an actor since second grade, right? Like I grew up in Metro Detroit doing community theater and youth theater, and just was always at play practice. And I was always really, really, really in love with characters who had major emotional arcs, right? Really intense highs and lows, kind of riding that roller coaster over the human experience. And I love having the opportunity to do things on stage that you just can't do in real life without just horrible consequences, right? Uh, I loved. Um, and you know, being a kid in youth theater and being a girl, I got a lot of opportunities to play boy characters, which meant I really got a lot of those big juicy roles like playing Robin Hood and Robin Hood and even David Copperfield in a youth theater production of Charles Dickens' David Copperfield, or playing Lady Macbeth, and you know, all these really fun, meaty roles.

And then when I became a professional actor after graduating college, those didn't exist. I only saw breakdowns for the girl next door, or the girl who doesn't know she's pretty, and I couldn't even apply for those roles. I wasn't even getting auditions for those roles because I wasn't pretty enough to play the girls who didn't even know they were pretty, right? And I know this is the reality of our sexist, racist, homophobic, fatphobic industry, is that there are not a lot of great roles for people who aren't cisgender men. They're just not. And so once I and I, you know, I was like, okay, how much do I need to lose weight to get this role? How much do I need to spend on makeup and hair and clothes so that maybe somebody will consider me for the hot girlfriend?

Maybe, if I'm lucky. And uh, so I started writing roles that I wanted to play and writing plays that I wanted to see. So my first play more was about a self-centered, recovering alcoholic who was cheating on her college boyfriend with her co-star that she was in a show with, basically kind of examining what is alcoholism and addiction outside of our traditional ways of thinking about it, like drinking too much or, you know, doing too many drugs or whatever. Like, what how else can addiction manifest itself outside of that? Uh, and then I did a play called Implied Consent, where we were looking at the gray area and relational power between this woman and her teacher, who she had a very close relationship with, beginning in like sixth grade through twelfth grade.

Um, and the sort of generational echoes of having this sort of undercurrent of power leaning towards men in a male-female relationship, and how can we break that cycle? And then, of course, The Regime is Female, which we've already addressed. And we just have this big gap, even though you know, we have shows like Russian Doll and Fleabag and Killing Eve, and you know, The Handmaid's Tale, even though that's a terrible, like there's women are not in power in the show. They're just at the center of the show. Uh, but it's a great show. I love the show. Fantastically well done. But the point being, even though we have these amazing shows that do center around women, we're still seeing a huge, you know, we still don't have gender parity in terms of media content, in terms of fiction content.

So that's really important to me. And then while we're building towards that, also being sure that we're being mindful of things outside of just the cis world of gender parity, right? Not just women and men, but where can we include a gender non-binary character? Where can we examine, um, you know, toxic masculinity in a way that's hurting cis men or making the trans experience more difficult? Uh, and working, so I've been aiming to work with more communities and also trying to de-center myself in terms of those collaborations.

[13:15] Jess: Now, here's a question I have, just bouncing off that idea. And I don't mean to lead anything, but it's more something I've dealt with with my own art. So I'm curious as to how you've dealt with it. Um, please. As someone that is that is a cisgendered male, um, and you're also cisgendered, do you ever find it difficult to write those for the non-binary because you don't want to misrepresent it in any way whatsoever?

[13:42] Sarah Elizabeth Grace: No, I don't, I mean, and I'm not going to call myself a non-binary character writing expert by any means. Um, we were very fortunate in casting The Regime is Female, where the applicants, well, I should say there are several ways of how to bring people in for an audition here in New York City. There is basically if you're doing independent theater, you post a listing on Backstage Magazine or Actors Access. Um, as of when we posted the listing, there was no gender non-binary option in telling these applicants that this character was gender non-binary or asking for gender non-binary performers to apply. And on one of those, there was a trans option, but the other one was only male or female. And I'm like, this is unhelpful, both for me as the person who's putting out the casting notice and also for the performers to know that this is something that's specifically for them.

[14:42] Sarah Elizabeth Grace: Like I don't get any listings when I'm getting my backstage magazine, you know, uh emails, right, saying like, hey, here's a new listing that applies to you. I'm not getting anything for like men, right? Because I checked the box that I'm a female performer, right? So the fact that they don't even have those as an option for casting breakdown website sucks. It sucks for people who identify as gender non-binary because they're not getting those emails necessarily. So luckily, we had it listed as such in the character breakdown. So most of our applicants were either trans-identifying or gender non-binary identifying. So we were able to basically just audition people who were living the life of the character in terms of their experience.

Um, and I, in terms of when this character, the character is called the messenger, Sam, um, when I was writing Sam, I was, it was either something that was just, they were just this character, and the character just happened to have this gender, right? Gender non-binary, right? It wasn't, it wasn't something that was necessarily factored into the character in terms of like, well, I drink Diet Coke because I'm gender non-binary, right? Like it wasn't like that. They just, they're just um this new generation of people who are outside of these sort of subscriptions that we've been brought up with, or that millennials have been brought up with. They're this new generation that can define things for themselves and be brave and live in their truth and live in their power without any fear because of this new way of living, this new society.

Um, and in terms of anything that's been a personal anecdote, uh, I have a few friends in the community, and I asked if I could borrow some of their sort of personal stories or uh personal perspectives on certain things, and they said absolutely. So most of my characters are based on people that I know anyway, right? Like writers cisbarrow people, right? So that's that's how I wanted to make sure things were accurate. And also we were workshopping this play, you know, as soon as I wrote a first draft, I had a reading in my living room. Almost every time we've had a reading of this play, the person who's read The Messenger has also been somebody who identifies as gender non-binary. So if there's something that's off or something that didn't feel truthful to them, they would let let they would speak up and let me know.

[17:03] Jess: Beautiful answer. Thank you. Thank you for that. Um now we're going even further back. Um, how does a girl from a Metro Detroit suburb become an acclaimed New York playwright?

[17:16] Sarah Elizabeth Grace: Oh, an acclaimed New York playwright, Ben Brantley, my goodness. Um you got reviews, you got five-star reviews. Uh uh You're acclaimed.

[17:31] Jess: I'm so acclaimed.

[17:32] Sarah Elizabeth Grace: Like um, how does a girl from Metro Detroit? Oh my goodness. Okay. First of all, like the 13-year-old girl from Metro Detroit, if she had like heard that question, would have been like, oh my God, I did it. I made it. I did it. Like, I have always been a drama nerd. Always, always, always, always, always. From like the moment I even knew what like a play was, I was like, I have to do this. I have to be like, I remember being in fourth grade, and my friend had like a celebrity birthday party where everyone had to dress up as like a celebrity. And I remember her older sister was like Gwen Stefani, and I think she was like Brittany Spears. And I was Judy Garland. Like, like total fucking drama nerd. Oh, also, I can swear on this, right?

[18:17] Jess: Oh, of course. Feel free.

[18:18] Sarah Elizabeth Grace: Okay, cool. Just wanted to make sure I'm like swearing up a storm. Um swear as much as you want. So I was really lucky. First of all, my mom is a huge supporter of the art. Like she would buy every original Broadway cast soundtrack that I wanted. Um, every time I wanted to be in a play, she would drive me, you know. Um, I went from my first communion to my matinee performance of Oliver, you know. Like, I I just was always in theater. And I was really fortunate. I grew up in Bloomfield Hills, Michigan, which has a really, really strong youth theater program through the rec department. And this man named Tom Logan ran this third grade through fifth grade uh group of kids would meet like on Saturdays called the Knapsack Players, and then Saturday and Wednesday group called The Rising Stars, which was like sixth grade through ninth grade.

And we would do like the rising stars would do five plays a year. Like, and not just like kitty plays. Like we did uh uh like a classic in the summer, like Hunchback of Notre Dame, and then we do like a more child-friendly play like Alice in Wonderland in the fall, and we go to like schools and tour one day out of the year, you know, like one day in the fall, and like go to these elementary schools and do the play for them. And then we do like a classic in the winter, like skin of our teeth or Spoon River Anthology, like these really high-level literature plays. And then we do a Shakespeare play like Macbeth or Midsummer Night's Dream, and that's how I got to learn Shakespeare for the first time.

That's how I fell in love with it. Um, and then a musical in the spring, like Bye Bye Birdie or Oliver, and then we just do it all over again. So I got exposed to all these amazing pieces of work. And then I went to um this our public school system is amazing, and we had drama in middle school, like as a class. And I remember like first day of sixth grade, my drama teacher is taking roll call, and he's like, Sarah Elizabeth Grace, that's an actor's name. Don't ever change it. And I'm like, oh my god. Oh my god, I love this drama teacher so much. And like, I've already been in a lot of plays, and he's like, Oh, great. Well, then I don't worry about you. And yeah, it was just, it was just so encouraged, you know, and went to a great high school that had a really, really strong uh theater program uh that's no more because our schools merged, and now it's just Bloomfield Hills High.

But just had really amazing strong mentors, and I wanted to go to NYU Tisch, and they all were like, You're gonna do it, you're gonna get in. And I did, and I did musical theater, and it sucked, only because no, it it's a very hard Cap 21, which also no longer exists. I seem to be in these institutions that are prestigious and then disappear after I graduate from them. But it was just um, it's a school of 64 kids three days a week, who are all the stars of their hometown and are 18 years old and just moved to New York City, so insecurities are running high. And then you're in a school of like 20,000 kids two days a week, and you're like an 18-year-old in New York City, and it's it can be really rotten.

It can be a tough transition. And I just again, like you kind of need to fit into these boxes in musical theater. And that's changed a lot in the last few years, I will say. There's a lot more um independent content that's finding its way into the mainstream, and that's super awesome. But it was just a big struggle in terms of fitting in and what type are you? And are you a great dancer? Are you a belter? Are you this? Are you that? And if you don't fit in the box, then like what are you? You know, I don't know what to do with you. You know, I I met a manager after doing my industry night, uh, my senior year, and he wanted to work with me. And then he met me in person, and he's like, I'm sorry, you're just not two-dimensional enough to play an ingenue.

I was like, I was like, oh shit, okay. Uh yeah, and then I was working enough as an actor, you know, doing like indie theater uh commercials. I was on Law and Order, I was doing some short films. Uh, but then one one, you know, a couple of months into it, like things started to well, a couple months at a stretch, something dried up, and I was like, I don't know, I have all these feelings. Let me write a play. And so I wrote a play, and then I just thought maybe I'd only have one play in me, and I've just kept going. And the community that I work with just continues to grow and get stronger. And uh it's really nice to go back and forth between being a you know, sort of mercenary actor and just acting in somebody else's work, and then meeting all these amazing creatives and then doing my work and then taking some of those creatives that I've worked with and bringing them on board and uh continuing to grow my my the community of people who I was gonna say my fans, but that sounds really dumb.

Like the community of people who like seeing my work and having them come back for the next play and the next play and crowdfunding and things like that, and growing that community and and supporting other playwright playwright performers, and yeah, it's kind of become it's really a thing now, which I did not expect even three years ago. I didn't expect to be thinking that I was a playwright and performer. I just thought I'd only have one in me, but here we are. I'm super addicted to it. It's a terrible addiction, but it's uh it's a nice it's better than the other ones.

[23:46] Jess: Agreed and agreed, and for all of us included, like now we have your art now in the world, that's fantastic. Very rarely does addiction affect other people positively the way that your addiction kind of does.

[23:58] Sarah Elizabeth Grace: Yes, I yes, and it gives people an opportunity to have a fun night or a fun time if they're a part of our show, you know. And now here we are leading up to the penultimate question. If there's a little girl that or boy or whoever who wants to be a playwright, what advice would you give to them?

[24:20] Sarah Elizabeth Grace: Oh, well, I actually because surprisingly, or maybe unsurprisingly, acting and writing doesn't pay the bills. Not yet. Uh so I actually teach playwriting and performance to elementary school kids. Uh, that's one of the jobs that I have. So um, what I like to encourage my students to do is just whatever is whatever makes them feel excited to perform, something that they really want to do or want to see, write it down. No idea is dumb. And actually, I can't remember who told me this, but it I'm so kind of quoting my own play a little bit. And he's telling her, like, you know, I always want to read what you write. And she's like, I don't know if it's gonna be good enough to read it. And he's like, look, most people don't start writing.

And a lot of people who start don't finish. And the very small amount that do finish never let their work see the light of day. And I really I wish I could give credit to whoever told me that, because I don't remember who did. But it's true, like this, the the if you can just start writing and figure out a way to finish it and then figure out a way to share it just with anybody, like your chances of success exponentially increase every time you finish that next step. And then, you know, it doesn't have to be a big humongous production. It can just be a reading for your friends in your living room. And then maybe you submit it to a festival, and then maybe it's not so hard to produce like you thought it was gonna be.

It's really, especially coming from an acting background, it's so hard to get work. Like you need to jump through so many hoops for somebody to say, yes, you can participate. But as a writer, you start participating the minute you start typing or the minute you start journaling. And that's amazing. Like, you don't need anybody's permission. Just do it. Like it's that Shia LaBeouf video. Just do it. Just start. Um, and you never know how people are gonna react to your work. And it's usually in a really positive way. And everybody's voice needs to be heard. Everybody at least has one story, one great story that they can tell. And you know, don't be afraid to put it out there because we need it.

We need it. Especially if you feel like it's too different. Like the more different the better. We've seen the same narrative. There's a bajillion CSIs and Kevin Kenwaits and freaking, you know, sitcommy big bang theory stuff. And like we need the weird, crazy or just like specific point of view that every writer has. You know, don't be afraid to be different.

[27:11] Jess: That's such a beautiful note to end on. All right, Sarah, is there anything else you want to say or promote out there for everyone to find you at? Be it social media, your websites, or things that are coming up.

[27:22] Sarah Elizabeth Grace: Oh gosh, I wish I had anything coming up. I am of course, two weeks ago I was like, I don't have another play in me. I'm tapped. I'm gonna just take these, I'm just gonna take this holiday and write it out and enjoy, maybe read a book. And now I'm already like, well, I could write a short movie, like real quick before the holidays come. So I'll say just you can find me on Instagram at Sarah Elizabeth Grace. Uh, you can find me on my website at Sarah Elizabeth Grace.com, although it's pretty simple right now. Uh, you can follow the badass lady productions Facebook page. Um, and I'll also say the next time you see anybody crowdfunding for their play or musical or short film, like toss them a couple bucks because even if it's five dollars or twenty dollars, it really makes a huge difference to them that you're saying, I support you, I see what you're doing, and I th I want you to succeed.

So I'm gonna put that out there too. That if you see somebody trying to make something happen and you're like, I don't know, what is our does it my five dollars really make a difference? It does. It really does. And when you do, you become a part of that artist community. And the more the stronger our communities, the better work we can put out there. And make sure you're registered to vote. Everybody vote. That is very important. 2020 is coming up. Don't mess this up. Don't mess it up, register to vote.

[28:50] Jess: There are just so many quotes that you've given me that make sure it should be on a poster.

[28:55] Sarah Elizabeth Grace: Well, that's why we had such great uh propaganda for uh for our play. I'm great with that.

[29:06] Jess: All right, Sarah, thank you so much. Um, and we'll see you next time on Musicals with Cheese.