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[0:27] Miranda Moffitt: Hello and welcome to another extremely special episode of Theatre in the D.

[0:32] Miranda Moffitt: I am joined as always by my partner in all things, Miranda Moffitt.

[0:36] Miranda Moffitt: Hi everyone.

[0:37] Miranda Moffitt: And today we had the lovely joy of seeing The Lion King at the Detroit Opera House, uh brought to us by ATG in Detroit.

[0:47] Miranda Moffitt: Miranda, tell us about The Lion King.

[0:50] Miranda Moffitt: The Lion King has music and lyrics by Elton John and Tim Rice.

[0:54] Miranda Moffitt: The book was by Roger Allers and Irene Mecchi, and it was conceived and directed by Julie Taymor.

[1:00] Miranda Moffitt: Now Julie Taymor is someone my audience knows pretty well.

[1:04] Miranda Moffitt: Um, what do you know about Julie Taymor?

[1:07] Miranda Moffitt: Absolutely nothing other than what you've told me and that she also conceived Spider-Man Turn Off the Dark?

[1:15] Miranda Moffitt: Spider-Man Turn Off the Dark, yes.

[1:17] Miranda Moffitt: There you go, that one.

[1:18] Miranda Moffitt: That musical. She conceived it, was thrown off, and then they removed a lot of her craziness, so it's just kind of half a production.

[1:26] Miranda Moffitt: But she was a really impressive and interesting, I don't want to call her conceptual, but she was definitely inspired by many different forms of theater.

[1:37] Miranda Moffitt: Um, you did watch the movie Across the Universe, which was directed by her, and you can definitely feel her styling all over that for better and for worse.

[1:46] Miranda Moffitt: Um, she also did the incredible Titus film starring Anthony Hopkins, which has I think a lot of her most successful choices ever made in.

[1:56] Miranda Moffitt: She's also done theater so often, and it was a bold choice in the 90s for Disney to approach her about this, and I think you can kind of tell why this stands kind of as above it all as far as Disney animated films turned to musicals.

[2:13] Miranda Moffitt: I would say so.

[2:15] Miranda Moffitt: Um, I mean, I know one of the things about her that you told me that I was particularly impressed by is that she basically conceived all of the costumes.

[2:22] Miranda Moffitt: And if you look in the playbill, costume design, Julie Taymor, mask and puppet design, Julie Taymor and Michael Curry, like her fingerprints are definitely all over it.

[2:31] Miranda Moffitt: And I think the puppetry and the costumes to basically translate a lion into a physical, you know, like a human lion hybrid thing that we like understand what's going on, um, is one of the more well done parts of the show.

[2:48] Miranda Moffitt: I agree, but also the lot of the literalism is kind of removed from this.

[2:53] Miranda Moffitt: You could see this as a story of literal lions, or you could see this as a king whose tribe is represented by lion iconography.

[3:02] Miranda Moffitt: It could be that that is one way you can interpret this because it is so non-literal.

[3:09] Miranda Moffitt: Um, and one of the important things, like if you come into The Lion King, you're like, what is this gonna be? Is this gonna be furry mascot heads?

[3:17] Miranda Moffitt: Like the people in the production, she's like, No, we're gonna do animals, but you must always see the person behind the animal.

[3:24] Miranda Moffitt: We are not gonna hide them, we are gonna make them a part of the costuming because that is the only way you can see the humanity in this story.

[3:32] Miranda Moffitt: Yeah, and I think the costume part of it is, like I said, particularly well integrated.

[3:37] Miranda Moffitt: Like the makeup that they put on the human actors, uh, like in addition to the costume, I think is good at portraying exactly what they are supposed to be.

[3:49] Miranda Moffitt: Uh, in an interesting way. I think Scar's costume in particular is probably my favorite.

[3:54] Miranda Moffitt: I love like the lion him and um Mufasa and the way that the lion heads like basically come down over their face when they're being particularly animalistic.

[4:03] Miranda Moffitt: Um, I really appreciated that. I think overall very cool.

[4:06] Miranda Moffitt: Something I noticed on this watch, specifically about uh Scar's head, it no longer moves in Act Two.

[4:13] Miranda Moffitt: It stays firmly on the top of his head because it is now his crown.

[4:17] Miranda Moffitt: And I know that it is an electronic and it's usually in his cane, um, which is why they give Scar a cane to basically control the mask.

[4:25] Miranda Moffitt: Um, but I was very paying attention to the internal logic, because I know Julie Taymor thinks about things like that.

[4:31] Miranda Moffitt: Um, which is why when Mufasa talks about the kings of the past, he removes his crown to kind of show honor to them.

[4:38] Miranda Moffitt: There's like there's so much going on here, and I know she's inspired by so many different cultures.

[4:44] Miranda Moffitt: Um, a lot of Asian cultures and Asian theatrical styles too, um, where I'm very much like pointing like Leo from that one meme.

[4:53] Miranda Moffitt: Yeah, from the meme, just like, hey, I know what you're doing there.

[4:56] Miranda Moffitt: I see what I see what you're doing there.

[4:57] Miranda Moffitt: And it's rare, like this is a show we've both seen three times at this point, where I'm still surprised by a stagecraft thing that's going on.

[5:05] Miranda Moffitt: Not like anything incredible or masterful, but just like a practical piece of costuming working the way it was intended that I forgot.

[5:13] Miranda Moffitt: Well, I think you see that the most in the opening number, which you know, hopefully people who are listening in uh are aware of what The Lion King is and have at least seen the animated movie.

[5:24] Miranda Moffitt: Um, but that opening scene where all the animals basically come together in the Circle of Life song as they are presenting Baby Simba to the tribe, um, is the always the one that like it's like the highest high of the show for me, which is weird to have it like in an opening number, but um like people every time are just like as the and the people in the costumes representing the animals, especially like the elephant, like a giant that is a giant piece of costuming.

[5:51] Miranda Moffitt: Um, you know, the giraffes, the people on stilts, um, like it's all a beautiful spectacle, and people are always like gasping and you know, like getting chills, like it is a very cool moment, and that's because of the effectiveness of the costumes.

[6:09] Miranda Moffitt: Yes.

[6:09] Miranda Moffitt: Um, while we are highlighting the genius of Julie Taymor as we should, um, some choices I'm not sure work for me.

[6:19] Miranda Moffitt: Um, I we make jokes about dance breaks with me, but this has I guess I forgot about it, but a techno beat drop in the villain song Be Prepared, where the hyenas just do a techno break dance.

[6:35] Miranda Moffitt: Yes, this was also something that I noted.

[6:37] Miranda Moffitt: Um, I don't remember if it was this way in previous productions.

[6:42] Miranda Moffitt: I don't recall it being this way, so maybe that's something that is like a recent addition.

[6:47] Miranda Moffitt: But yeah, Be Prepared is like an extended dance break.

[6:51] Miranda Moffitt: Like it basically looks like they have a techno dance break that looked like it was taking place in a gay club, and the hyenas are like there are some versions of the hyenas that are shirtless and they're wearing like skin-tight lycra pants that are like flesh colored, and I honestly thought that they were just wearing like a cloth, basically, like a cloth diaper looking thing.

[7:11] Miranda Moffitt: No, they had they had um leggings on, but it was kinda hard to tell at first.

[7:16] Miranda Moffitt: And they didn't have like the actual costume, it was just like the head thing, like a head like the I don't know how to describe it.

[7:22] Miranda Moffitt: It was like the hyena head only, not like any of the other things that come with it.

[7:27] Miranda Moffitt: And they were just like dancing their little hearts out like they were in the club right in front of Scar, like, yeah, this is what he wants.

[7:35] Miranda Moffitt: Like that was that was a little I mean, Scar is a little, you know.

[7:40] Miranda Moffitt: He doesn't have kids, no heirs, um, for a reason.

[7:45] Miranda Moffitt: Um, I thought Scar was fabulous, and I I this is a complicated show to put on, um technically, and something that you brought up to me was that the Scar and uh Mufasa actors sounded more difficult to hear than the other actors.

[8:03] Miranda Moffitt: And uh this is me putting my tinfoil hat high high, you know, hypothesis together.

[8:09] Miranda Moffitt: I think it has to do with the mechanics of their moving masks.

[8:12] Miranda Moffitt: I assume they're done either through radio or some kind of electronic, which interferes with microphones if you put them too close.

[8:20] Miranda Moffitt: So I'm betting their mics are at a weird place in comparison to everyone else who probably has them in their head or on their lapel, which puts it a little closer.

[8:30] Miranda Moffitt: Like I heard some interference a little bit with Mufasa's, like there was like some static with it, and I kind of find that stuff cool because I like figuring out how theater things work.

[8:39] Miranda Moffitt: Yeah, I mean I didn't have an issue with it or anything.

[8:42] Miranda Moffitt: It's more just like, oh, do they need to like turn their mics up or something?

[8:46] Miranda Moffitt: But yeah, that's also incredibly probable.

[8:49] Miranda Moffitt: Um, I think one of the other things that I I don't remember if I had this thought when we saw it a few years ago, but for me, like it almost does not feel like a musical in the first act.

[9:00] Miranda Moffitt: There are a few musical numbers interspersed, but it's mostly like dance numbers.

[9:04] Miranda Moffitt: And there's also like songs that take place in another language as well, kind of like mixed in there.

[9:09] Miranda Moffitt: But for the most part, like to me, it felt more like a play in the first act that had a few little numbers in it.

[9:15] Miranda Moffitt: Similar to like a Disney movie, where a Disney movie like that is a movie that just happens to have songs, and this felt like a play that just happened to have some songs in it.

[9:24] Miranda Moffitt: But I think that changed for me in the second act where it felt more like a traditional musical, there were more musical numbers more frequently, more back to back that were the primary movers of the story.

[9:36] Miranda Moffitt: So that was the one thing that I thought was like a little weird.

[9:38] Miranda Moffitt: Things were pretty jam-packed in the second act, but that's not necessarily abnormal.

[9:43] Miranda Moffitt: I prefer that to the Frozen the musical format of we're shoving in so many songs to get you to have Let It Go as the act one closer, where it feels like it's dragging a story we already know.

[9:58] Miranda Moffitt: I kind of like that it's world-building songs that they put in there.

[10:02] Miranda Moffitt: Um, like we get to see the hyenas or the lionesses hunt and how the circle of life actively works.

[10:09] Miranda Moffitt: And we get to have like one of the most incredible father-son moments in a musical in He Lives in You, which is like this beautiful number brand new to this stage show, written by Lebo M for an album called Rhythm of the Pride Lands.

[10:24] Miranda Moffitt: And then it got interspersed into The Lion King 2, which was a sexual awakening for many young women um of the time, and now it lives forever in this musical where it is done best.

[10:34] Miranda Moffitt: Um, I wanted to bring up in act one.

[10:37] Miranda Moffitt: Um, sometimes I forget how crazy Julie Taymor is, and it works hand in hand with the genius.

[10:45] Miranda Moffitt: Um, and the crazier elements came out in I Just Can't Wait to Be King where those costumes they don't represent any animal I can think of in any animal kingdom.

[10:55] Miranda Moffitt: They are just wacky strange theatrical masks all over the place.

[11:00] Miranda Moffitt: I mean my best guess with that just because there are a lot of things I don't know is that there are a lot of pieces of the musical that are directly inspired by African art lineage or tradition that I'm maybe just not aware of so that could have been a part of it or it could have just been some cool new other third thing.

[11:00] Miranda Moffitt: I don't know.

[11:18] Miranda Moffitt: But yeah basically like they during that song break the two kid actors get up on these like bird looking things but they're not really birds that they're like kind of controlling the movement of it does feel a little bit like some mix between a dream and a nightmare watching that but yeah it was cool.

[11:36] Miranda Moffitt: One other thing that um I think came up during that scene and maybe other scenes is that the only the only animal that has like a basically fourth wall break with its human counterpart is Zazu where like the bird the um puppet bird like recognizes that it's being controlled by a human and it even like attacks the human actor at one point and they also get separated like that happens a couple times during musical and I just wondered why Zazu specifically like is the only one that has a fourth wall break where we're like recognizing that the puppet and the animal versus the human are like two different features.

[12:14] Miranda Moffitt: I kind of like that as intentional world building, because in theory, he's dressed as a butler.

[12:19] Miranda Moffitt: He's a butler with a bird.

[12:21] Miranda Moffitt: And yeah, the bird's mouth moves and all that, but I'm just assuming, like, you know, he serves the king who wears a lion crown, which you which is why seeing all the human aspects, these are just the roles that they are destined to play in this fictionalized human hybrid animal thing where these are the clothing that they put on.

[12:41] Miranda Moffitt: And I kind of like that as like weird abstract theater play.

[12:45] Miranda Moffitt: And also the kids love it, and the kids laugh and they are giggling at the goofy man making the funny noises.

[12:51] Jess: That is that is true. This musical also makes me think of like that the cliché or the trope of like the kid in school being cast as like a tree in a in the musical, you know, where like literally there are adults that are playing like grass at certain points, and you know, like the different physical elements, like literally basically playing a tree, which I think is kind of funny, but I mean, used to great effect.

[13:19] Miranda Moffitt: Um, I think there's also a scene where the grass or the like leaves and stuff are like sentient at some point where they like interact with the animal characters, which is also like another kind of weird fourth wall break moment where it's like, oh, you're meant to be some inanimate object, but actually you are interacting in the world, which I think um is interesting.

[13:38] Jess: Something I couldn't remember, which you said was also that way in the movie was that Hakuna Matata takes place literally directly after Mufasa dies, which is crazy to me. Because why are we moving from like, oh my dad is dead, right into like, oh man, it's okay, everything's alright. Like moving just he just moved on way too quick for that. That was, I guess maybe I just didn't remember that from the movie.

[14:05] Miranda Moffitt: It's about a while. I mean, the movie does a really good job in framing it as repression and kind of like these bad characters coming in and being like, hey, you did a bad thing, forget about it. It's all good. Um, and it's an unhealthy way of living.

[14:21] Jess: Um, a lot of people say that Lion King is based on Hamlet. Lion Hamlet. And there's almost nothing to do with Hamlet aside from Uncle kills King. That's that's kind of where it stops. Because Hamlet doesn't really like there's not a complex thing. He doesn't marry Mufasa's wife. There's a lot of but it does represent Prince Hal, who uh leaves his lineage behind to go hang out and get drunk with friends uh in the middle of nowhere and under a pseudonym, and eventually he has to go back and take his rightful place as king and leave all those friends behind, as a rejuvenated person, no longer the person living on the outskirts drinking beer and having a blast. He has to regain responsibility.

[15:04] Miranda Moffitt: Um and then Falstaff um is left behind and dies alone. Um, read Shakespeare, kids, it's good for you. Um, as far as other things, I wanted to ask you about the act one opener, one by one, which when I saw this as a kid was always a number I love, but always confused me.

[15:25] Jess: Act two. Act two, I'm sorry. Um, where you have um people in traditional African clothes coming up through the aisles with these flags and singing. Um, and it's you and I often I I told you once that every Act Two opening song is just kind of filler for people to find their seats and come in late.

[15:46] Miranda Moffitt: Um, and you would turn to me and was like, What's this one? I'm like, literally, wait till you see it. It is literally nothing to do with the plot. But I'm also curious, why is it there aside from let's sit down and have a great number? Because I guess you kind of need something upbeat and fun, because most of Act 2's a bummer.

[16:06] Jess: Kind of. I took it exactly that way when they started to I mean it's like just a cool, fun song, and it's just like, oh, we're killing time. Cause I mean, they started that song before they even put the lights down. It's basically the production being like, Alright, kids, time to get to your seats, because there's gonna be a lot of plot filled into the next several minutes. So get to where you gotta get.

[16:31] Miranda Moffitt: And that's basically how I took it. You're right, it has literally no relevance to the larger plot, basically, other than just like, yay, nice song. Um, my one last thought that I had, which I think I asked you while we were sitting there, I was like, is Scar always white?

[16:47] Jess: And you were like, yeah, pretty much. And all I can say is that tracks. I mean, I think that fits well for the story. Like, you don't want to have that character be another black person. I think that kind of takes away from the narrative that Julie Taymor's intentionally putting in there. One of the most famous uh scars was Patrick Page, and with respect to the actor playing Scar this time, it seemed like our Scar was a tenor and he was struggling with those lower notes a little bit.

[17:17] Miranda Moffitt: Um he was very good, but and very out there, but yeah, that that would be my one uh complaint. Actually, I'll throw another complaint. I thought the kids in this musical were incredible. I really liked the kid that played Young Simba.

[17:30] Jess: He was not trying to replicate Jonathan Taylor Thomas's delivery, he was doing them his own way, and it felt so new, and I really liked it. And Nala was just this really fantastic singer and really nailed all her moments. And then much like the animated movie, as soon as we get to adult Simba, just that energy is gone.

[17:50] Miranda Moffitt: It's really a bummer when that movie becomes Matthew Broderick's movie in the second half. And I still every time adult Simba is just not as fun as kid Simba, sadly. I mean, obviously, because he's coming in. I mean, the adult actor has the task of trying to create some sense of continuity with the character, and that they show up being pretty like they are an adult now, but they are still very naive and still very much acting childlike, which I think can be difficult to portray without it like I don't know, being strange or off-putting.

[18:26] Jess: An another thing I thought of was in the timeline of this, if we're okay, if we're taking it literally and we're thinking that they're lions, lions mature really quickly, and I'm like, I wonder if in the lion world, the jump between young Simba and adult Simba is like a few months to when they reach maturity. Which makes everything that happens a little bit creepier if you really think about it too much.

[18:47] Miranda Moffitt: So forget I said that. Don't think about it. I mean, that was the joke that the animators wrote. That's why the puberty bridge in Hakuna Matata, where you know the shot where you just turned. Um yeah, lions get really old really fast. It just shows that what a shitty king Scar was.

[19:05] Jess: That in three months, it's almost like the Trump uh second term, like everything's fallen to shit in three months. Oh no. We have no food, no water, we're gonna starve to death. That's kind of what I mean. That's what I mean. Like if you if you think about it literally like that, it almost ruins everything for you because it's like they just like, you know, Scar's creeping on Nala at a certain point, and then they have a kid by the end of it and you're like, what is the actual lion timeline for this?

[19:34] Miranda Moffitt: Yeah, don't don't ruin it for yourself and interpret it that way. Whatever. Stay in the weird fun nothing is literal Julie Taymor world. Speaking of nothing is literal, and this is my last topic every time I see this, I think it's not gonna get me.

[19:47] Jess: But every time it does and it's that giant Mufasa mask in the sky during He Lives in You. Every time I'm like, man, it's gonna be it's gonna I know how it's done. It's gonna underwhelm me. And then it's there and I'm just like I'm I'm five years old again and I'm like oh my god that's incredible.

[20:07] Miranda Moffitt: It's stagecraft. For context for people who have not seen the musical there is a section in um He Lives in You, the reprise I think, right? In the second yeah so the reprise of that song in Act Two um while they're singing that there are basically like several um ensemble members holding different pieces that almost kind of like in the way they've staged it look like fish moving through the sea the way that they have like the light set up to be kind of like obscuring the sort of like background almost looks like you know like fish in the water or something abstract and then all of a sudden they put the light on it and all the pieces come together to create like the basically the head of Mufasa and they like move the mouth pieces of it and have Mufasa basically talking to Simba um which is an amazing piece of stagecraft and I something I brought up to you in in the car afterwards is like what if what if just like one piece accidentally got swapped.

[20:16] Jess: Like, what if what if you swapped the eyes on accident and then he ended up looking cross eyed? Like, that has to have happened before and all the many years of this have uh all the many years of this production existing. Like, I don't know. That just it was a really really incredible part.

[21:15] Miranda Moffitt: That was one of my favorite parts. I think I think that genuinely is probably my favorite new song from there as he lives in you. Um, not from the movie, and also just being able to listen to Hans Zimmer's score, the pieces of it, like the Pride Rock score at the very end, um, are like it is spine tingling, goosebump inducing every time.

[21:35] Jess: And you're right, you always think it's not gonna get you, and then it does. Um, but yeah, that's my big thought.

[21:40] Miranda Moffitt: Yeah, Lion King is the best Disney musical you can see. Go see it if you can.

[21:44] Jess: Um, Broadway and Detroit, go see it while while still playing. It is one of the best pieces of theater. It is the biggest moneymaker Disney has ever put on. Billions with a B. More money than Avengers Endgame, Avengers Infinity War, and all the other Avengers movies mixed together.

[22:05] Miranda Moffitt: Yeah, this this show has made that much money. It is incredible and worth seeing. And if you haven't, go take it. And if you got kids, they will be locked in. They will be loving it.

[22:16] Jess: Um, we've seen other shows aimed at kids, and they um are antsy and maybe a little fidgety. These kids loved it.

[22:25] Miranda Moffitt: Yeah, they would talk and ask questions, but that showed that they were engaged. This is a great show to see with kids.

[22:30] Jess: Um, so I think my cheese rating is going to be.

[22:34] Miranda Moffitt: Well, I'm gonna have to think about it. Why don't you go first?

[22:37] Jess: That's because he sees me over here googling cheeses that originated in Africa, so I could try to find a good cheese for this cheese rating.

[22:45] Miranda Moffitt: Don't ruin the magic. I wish I I wish I knew more about this topic. Uh let me see. What does Google say? I'm gonna say Wagashi.

[22:53] Jess: Is that how you pronounce that?

[22:55] Miranda Moffitt: Hopefully it is Wagasi or Wagashi. It's a type of West African cheese made from cow's milk. I'll say that. Um, because I think that the inspiration for the like the textures and the colors and the culture and the language of Lion King is is very much well rooted in that culture.

[23:15] Jess: Um, and well represented in my opinion. I think overall Lion King is if you love the movie, you're gonna love the show.

[23:21] Miranda Moffitt: Um, and like Jess said, if you have kids, they are going to be locked in. It's it's a good time for everybody.

[23:26] Jess: So yeah, that's my overall rating. What do you what do you got?

[23:29] Miranda Moffitt: What were you able to find? When we covered this show on the main podcast five years ago, it looks like I gave it a real item you can get at Disneyland called the Mufasa Cheeseburger.

[23:43] Jess: And I sticking by it. How can I not?

[23:46] Miranda Moffitt: Um, thank you again to ATG in Detroit for making this possible and letting us talk to this, talk about this show.

[23:54] Jess: Um, our next show will be Mamma Mia, which we will be seeing on March 24th.

[23:59] Miranda Moffitt: Um, get excited, it's gonna be a good time.

[24:02] Jess: And that will be at the Fisher Theater.

[24:04] Miranda Moffitt: Um, everyone's favorite place, right next to the opera house.

[24:07] Jess: Fuck you, Fox Theater.

[24:10] Miranda Moffitt: It's not next to the opera house.

[24:12] Jess: I said right next to it as far as ranking.

[24:15] Miranda Moffitt: Oh, oh, I was like, physically the Fisher.

[24:18] Jess: No, they're a little distance.

[24:19] Miranda Moffitt: They're far away from each other.

[24:21] Jess: I wouldn't say far. They're in the same city.

[24:23] Miranda Moffitt: That's true. If you ever come to Detroit, by the way, isn't I think Detroit is like the second as far as musical like theater locations or theaters per square mile or whatever it is, second only to New York City.

[24:35] Jess: I'll have to fact check myself on that one.

[24:37] Miranda Moffitt: But yeah, we have a lot of theater, so theater in Detroit is exceptional.

[24:40] Jess: And theater history, the first place that Fiddler on the Roof and Hello Dolly ever played was the Fisher Theater in Detroit, Michigan.

[24:48] Miranda Moffitt: We are theater history.

[24:53] Jess: And until then, thank you for coming into Theatre in Detroit.