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[0:00] ♪ Musical number: "I Have to Run Away" — performed by Ingrid Michaelson ♪

[0:36] Jess Moffat: Hello and welcome to an extra special bonus episode of Musicals with Cheese that we call Theatre in the D. We've got a brand new season at ATG in Detroit and I'm joined as always by my best friend, partner in all things, Miranda Moffat.

[0:52] Miranda Moffat: Hello everyone, and on today's extra special episode, we are going to be covering The Notebook, the musical with the lyrics and music by Ingrid Michaelson, book by Becca Brunstetter, and it is of course based on the novel by Nicholas Sparks. Those of you who are fans of this channel and have been for a while might remember that Jess and I had a little pet project where we reviewed every Nicholas Sparks adaptation to film, and boy, was that an undertaking. The Notebook was our number one, so The Notebook should be a great musical in theory. In theory, in theory of course. That was a thousand years ago. That was like during COVID that we did that, I think.

[1:36] Jess Moffat: Yeah, you do a lot of crazy things when you have nothing but time. I am personally a huge fan of The Notebook. I mean, that is like obviously every, you know, I feel like every young, like old millennial, young Gen Z-er, that's like their favorite romance movie growing up, and it is. It is honestly the best of Nicholas Sparks' adaptations, which is not exactly a high bar, but I will say it is the best adaptation, and it is the one that is the most an actual film. But on to the musical itself. I thought it was good. I was not a huge fan of the first act, but it really got me in the second act. I feel like that's when it started to get really good. I think the lyrics could be a little, I don't know if off-putting is the right word.

Simplistic? Strange? Maybe just not something that you're used to hearing in like a musical theater setting. Lots of repetition, which is not always bad, but it wasn't particularly good here. It was an interesting way to frame the story that is a bit different, or a lot different, I guess, from the movie adaptation, but still effective. And I think overall pretty good. Kind of middle of the pack. Do you know who Ingrid Michaelson is? Have you heard any of her proper pop music or anything like that?

[3:00] Miranda Moffat: Not really, but I do know that she has worked with and has a similar vibe to Sara Bareilles, which is why I'm surprised. Well, I guess not surprised. Not everybody can be Sara Bareilles. Not everything can be Waitress, but it was not of the same ilk. So, Ingrid Michaelson is someone I know because she took over the role of Sonia in Natasha Pierre and the Great Comet of 1812, because you know, that's my shit. Andrew, Liz, and I did an episode on this in May of 2024. We had not seen the show. We just had the album and the movie to go off of, and now having seen the show, I re-listened to the episode today to refresh my takes. The show handles a lot of the things that I thought it wouldn't better than I would have expected, and a lot of thematic things are being played with.

Weirdly enough, I think the show that this musical owes a lot of its debt to is Stephen Sondheim's Follies, where you have your younger self watching and reacting to the choices your older selves are making, and reflecting on both. And it's interesting, because the film adaptation kind of happens chronologically, with occasional flashbacks to the elder couple, but here, everything is happening at the same time. And so the high moments in each moment, in each relative narrative, are happening at the same moments, and the low moments are happening at the same moment. It's fascinating to actually watch how these things are kind of just a flat circle on top of each other, and I don't think that's a fault with this story, because I don't know another way you could have adapted this and made it effective.

[4:44] Jess Moffat: I can understand that. It does actually start the same way that the movie starts, where it's like the older version of Noah and Allie. For those of you that are not familiar with The Notebook, which if you're not, like, crawl out from under that rock you're under, essentially it's the story of a couple progressing through their life as a young couple who falls in love. In the movie, I don't know if the movie and the book adaptation, but the movie adaptation, I want to say it's set in, like, the 40s or 50s, because it's World War II era. Of them falling in love, getting disconnected, reconnecting, Allie having to decide between a really safe, you know, socially acceptable relationship with her fiancé, or returning to her first love, Noah, and she ends up returning to her first love, Noah.

And the whole conceit of the movie is based on the fact that Allie is now an older woman who has dementia and has forgotten herself and her husband, and her husband's way, Noah's way of getting Allie back is to read her the story of their lives so that she will return to him. And so, similar to the movie, yeah, the musical kind of starts in the same place where it's the older couple, and he's reading the story to her, and you get into the story of them both. But yes, it is framed in a way that the three couples young, you know, middle-aged, and then older, are all going through things at the same kind of time. And I was honestly a little confused at first, because the story started to progress real quick through everything, and I was like, we were, like, halfway through Act One, and I'm like, we're, like, three-fourths through the movie right now, where else are we gonna go?

But it, like, it kind of jumps around in the story, whereas the movie is kind of more of a linear take on the couples, with reflections from the older couple being sort of, like, popped in. So, I thought that was really interesting.

[6:32] Miranda Moffat: Again, I think it struggles, I think all movie-to-musical adaptations kind of struggle, in my view, with deciding what a proper balance is between, like, the amount of songs and the amount of talking. It's oftentimes a lot more talking than a traditional musical, because, like, it's based on a book and a movie, and there's mostly talking, and they're like, ah, we just have to put some song numbers in here somewhere, and they're really big moments, but, like, it struggles to find kind of a good balance for me, and I don't think that the lyrics and the songs are particularly good at telling the story, except with a few, like, notable exceptions. I actually wanted to highlight a few exceptions, because I think that when you have a pop artist coming to Broadway, the thing that they've fenced up against is specificity, and that's where you find the true nuggets of musical theater.

Sondheim was always very keen on, you can't ask me to write a love song, but if you tell me you have a woman at a bar, she's just got jilted by her lover, she's drinking this specific martini and wearing this specific dress, then I have things to play with. And there are two songs that really nail that for me, and what is, um, oh gosh, the, oh god, it's... Please hold, please hold, musical numbers. What is that thing called? It's the thing that, The Iron in the Fridge! The Iron in the Fridge, and the other one is when they're talking about the table that Noah made, and the specific things that they have on, and the specific feelings that they're having, that are only between the audience and the actors.

That song felt like a proper musical theater song, in a way of like, okay, she can do this. Well, what's going on with the rest of these numbers, though? Is that, was that Sadness and Joy? No, that wasn't Sadness and Joy, let's see. We have to try Forever, Sadness and Joy, Reprise, Forever, okay.

[8:32] Jess Moffat: I agree with you, and that's why I said at the beginning that I didn't love the first act, but I really, really liked the second act. I feel like that's when it really started to be, like, genuinely funny, and I could feel, like, the heartfeltness of the relationship, and maybe that's just because it's, like, my favorite part of the story, generally, but yeah, that is when it actually started to get absolutely funny. And not to jilt any wonderful actors that we have on stage, and maybe it's just because we have more mature actors that kind of know how to play the smaller moments in a bigger way, if that makes sense. I was really, like, I hate picking favorites, but I was really impressed by the middle Allie and the middle Noah. I thought they were really, really good, and their connection comes across. Maybe it's also because they make them dance in the rain, and I am just a little man that loves that trope.

[9:28] Miranda Moffat: I mean, that is a peak moment. If you're, like, a Notebook movie lover, you know exactly what that moment is. And it's slightly different to the way it's adapted in the movie, but it's still a very, that whole, their whole reconnection scene is, like, the most effective part of that entire musical. And something that we talked about, too, while we were, like, I think at intermission, I would challenge you, audience, viewers, we were, like, trying to think of what is an actually, like, good, very effective, because my thing was, like, I think it's really hard to translate just a pure romance on stage because so much of it depends on, like, the yearning and the micro-expressions and the, like, I don't know, being able to see them fall in love.

Like, it's very hard, I think, to translate that to a stage environment because it just comes off, you have to be so much more heightened and it almost comes off as disingenuous because I feel like love and romance is really in the small moments, and that's hard to show on a stage. So, I would challenge you. What's a good straight-up romance? You know, like, we were talking, like, for me, like, Wicked, for example, the Fiyero and Elphaba romance is very well portrayed because the Because You're Mine or As Long As You're Mine is such a good song and it's so great at translating those feelings in a way that is accessible to everybody watching it. But, again, Wicked is not entirely about romance. We were trying to rack our brains. What's a good musical that is purely romance? I thought of one.

[11:06] Jess: I just wrote a substack. Passion is like Sondheim's only true blue romance musical, and I love it, and it's perfect, and the thing that it gets right is the yearning. The yearning is what makes the romance even better. And Loving You is as good a romance song as you're ever going to find in a musical. Peak romance musical, but you threw out Waitress as another really peak one, speaking of Sara Bareilles.

[11:36] Miranda: Well, yeah, I mean, Waitress is like, for me, almost a perfect example of an adaptation of a movie into a musical for me, because it does hit all of the notes, and it is funny, and it's heightened, and all of that while still being incredibly sincere, because the music and the lyrics are so good at translating those big, huge emotions into something that is accessible.

[12:05] Jess: You can feel the love and the yearning, not through microexpressions, but through the expression of the song, whereas I feel like this did not achieve that very well, except for those exceptions that you noted. There are some really, really good moments in this, and I think all of that aside, if you are a fan of The Notebook, you will find something to enjoy. There is something for you in this, and even if you have never watched The Notebook, there are still good things in this for everybody, in my opinion.

[12:38] Miranda: We ran in the lobby to my friend Damon Fernandez from WDIV, and he had never seen any adaptation of The Notebook. The only thing he had seen from this musical or anything related to it was Joy Wood singing My Days, which is peak song, wonderful song, and I'm so curious as to what he thought of this. He gives me very honest feedback, so I'm very interested to see what he thought.

[13:04] Jess: We'll have to ask him. We'll have to see what he thinks, because that's another thing, too, that I think, maybe I'm just not remembering the movie adaptation correctly, but in my opinion, the fact that the older couple is Noah and Allie is something that is somewhat kept from you as kind of a surprise. It kind of is revealed in bits and pieces throughout the movie, whereas this felt like more, I don't know, more upfront, or like the moment, or the reveal kind of happened sooner, or wasn't even meant to really be a reveal, like that's just what it was. So, I don't know. I kind of enjoyed that it was more of a, like, you're discovering that as you go along piece. That's something I kind of missed in this, but I get that it's necessary to tell the story in this way, because the three couples are like, you know, moving through time.

[13:55] Miranda: In a musical, you're going to have their names in the program, unlike in a movie, where the minute you open the playbill, you're going to get spoilers for the big twist. Musicals are now at the point where they will just call a song a different name than what their chorus is, just to hide the joke of a song. So, I just don't see a way where that could have worked. I think they were in a rock and a hard place, and they were just like, you know, we all know what this is, and we're just going to have our story highs and lows come from a different thing.

[14:25] Jess: I agree, and I think the book itself and the movie adaptation are famous enough at this point that it would not be a shock or a spoiler to pretty much anybody. So, I understand why they did it, but I just think that's one of the beauties of the movie adaptation. As well as I think, like, the beginning of the romance really fell flat for me in this comparatively, just because it is so, it's just so delicious in the movie, watching Ryan Gosling and Rachel McAdams fall in love in that way.

[14:57] Miranda: And I feel like, again, the songs don't really prop up that effectively. And again, it's really hard for me, I think, and for anybody to translate that kind of budding romance from just a pure, straight romance into that position through song lyrics. I just think it wasn't there. But, like I said, you had me in the first half there, but they really got me in the second.

[15:51] Jess: But My Days and If This Is Love, those are both absolute peak songs. And while they do feel like normal pop numbers that you'd probably just see on the radio, I don't give a damn. They work for me. And you know what, they work for the audience. The audience is whooping and hollering afterwards. And for those specific songs, there was nowhere else I would have rather been than in that audience watching it.

[16:19] Miranda: I agree. That's why I say there really are some moments that do get you. And I feel like I apologize to all the people that love this musical. I feel like this is just me expressing how much I love the movie adaptation in comparison. I'm so sorry. That's my point of reference. I was obsessed with that movie. But, I mean, that's just where I'm coming from. And I think...

[16:45] Jess: Maybe if they adapt Nights at Rodanthe, we can maybe make something good. Change that up.

[16:52] Miranda: Oh my god. Oh my god, no.

[16:55] Jess: Message in a bottle next, baby! How many, how many times can Nicholas Sparks get away with killing the main man, the main male love interest in his stories in the last second? It must be like the last page of the fucking book.

[17:13] Miranda: And this is the only time it's worked. This is literally, he's pulled that trick so many times and it's only ever worked this one time.

[17:21] Jess: Everybody, everybody dies at the end of his shit. Everybody dies. And this is honestly the only time. Well, except for maybe a walk to remember.

[17:29] Miranda: Shut the fuck up.

[17:33] Jess: Even though, I don't know. This is probably the only time where it's like, ah, you know, they get to the end of their lives and they get to pass away together peacefully in each other's arms, finally reunited. It's sweet. It's amazing. It's a tearjerker. It's great. None of his other shit. None of his other shit, any of those where the deaths make any sense other than to just be for pure shock value.

[18:05] Miranda: Yeah, but it's to make the ladies cry. And you know what? At the concession stand, they're selling $5 branded, the notebook tissues. And I was like, who's gonna need that? And I'll be gosh darned if there wasn't at least five people behind me just sniffling and sobbing throughout the last like third of this musical. So jokes on us really. Like if we, if it didn't hit for us, we're the problem.

[18:31] Jess: I love how you went whole hog and said like several, several F-bombs, but you push back and didn't say goddamn and you had to say like, gosh, darn.

[18:39] Miranda: I, you know, we're a Christian show.

[18:42] Jess: Yeah.

[19:13] Miranda: The movie is the most perfect adaptation of that material to me. So trying to do anything else with it. It's just like, you know, why, why would you mess with perfection? And I think they're not to say that I'm not happy that this exists, because I am. I'm very happy that this exists. I'm happy that, you know, there is more to the story and that they're telling the story in a different and interesting way. And I'm happy that there are, you know, some of these thongs, thongs, thongs, thongs, thongs, some of these songs that really do add to your like perception and understanding of these characters and this story.

[19:55] Jess: So and that's what I think with the musical is it's almost like supplemental material to me where it's like, here's like extra layers for you to enjoy. And that's what I think is the benefit.

[20:08] Miranda: I think that this musical, the songs are really made for the local theater productions that will be out in about five years with students and young people. And on top of that, I think it's made for the 2006 era AMV edits where you put these songs to clips of the movies and have a good time.

[20:29] Jess: Fair enough. And honestly, I could it's very much like the last five years where like you can get away with a pretty simple set, which is not to say like, I think that the set design and the lighting choices and all that was still very effective for being, you know, like somewhat simplistic, but you're not, you know, you're not riding on a bubble like wicked. You're just it's just a story of two regular people falling in love.

[20:54] Miranda: I did. I did have notices of like how much we beefed up like the people in the nursing home. And my gut was just like, oh, we got to beef up that ensemble. We need to we need good vocals in the background, but they also need to have a role. They have to have a named character.

[21:10] Jess: They did. And like, I thought it interesting that they were like, you know, that Ali was calling the nurse mom, but that was also the actress that was playing her mom. Like, I thought that that was an interesting kind of dynamic to pick. Also, like, again, unclear exactly how much he shows up in the book. But Lon, the fiance, is there for like five seconds. He's not really a presence at all. And I feel like James Marsden is like, was the perfect Lon. He was the he plays the best guy that gets cucked, that loses his girl in everything. And there was like no Lon in this at all, which I think is fine. We're, you know, we're like strapped for time and space here. But I don't know. I feel like having a really good Lon increases the complication of like the decision that she's making. But, you know, whatever.

[22:12] Miranda: That was one of Andrew's thoughts, is like, he went through the entire album, like, all right, we're gonna get to his song. He's gonna get a little song, get his little, like, anti-Noah song, and it never happens. And he's like, that just felt like wasted potential. Where you could just see, like, although he's not a bad guy, he's not the right guy.

[22:29] Jess: Yeah, and that's, that's, I think, what makes it so interesting, is like, Lon is a good person, and he wants to be loved. And also, I thought it was interesting. Something that we haven't really touched on yet, which I'm surprised we haven't, is the fact that this adaptation is set in, I think, the 60s, 70s. What did we say? 60s, 70s, and 80s?

[22:46] Miranda: Well, no, it starts in the 60s, then we're here for the young ones, 70s for the middles, and then present day for the elders.

[22:59] Jess: And I think they just had to scoot the time out because it's been 20 years since the movie's come out. And, you know, time's progressed. It has, but I feel like it adds some, like, interesting different layers. Like, again, can only speak to the movie, have not read the book. But like, Lon's character in the film adaptation is a World War II veteran as well. And like, that's how he meets Allie. Allie was his nurse, whereas in this, he's portrayed as like, a draft dodger, you know, like somebody who is rich and well educated. Like, it creates a different dynamic. And I think both are good. Both are, you know, like, create Lon as like the foil to sort of like Noah and creating this sort of, you know, perspective on who Noah is in this society and to her parents as somebody of like a lower class or lower status.

[23:57] Miranda: And it just makes Noah get fucked by the GI Bill and all that other stuff. But when he gets home, so he's even poorer and like now disabled as well as all that. I mean, the things that I miss the most from the movie are the extension of the characters, like Noah's dad, like the visual progressions that we see. And you can't do that on stage. You have to hear about it. And it is kind of like post hoc kind of discussions of it kind of like into the woods where we don't see the giant or any of that stuff. We don't see the Cinderella ball. We just get to hear about it. But sometimes you just kind of want to see the thing.

[24:34] Jess: And you know, the thing that I really didn't you never get in any adaptations in either is those parents where like, there's a there's a line that Gina Rowlands as older Allie has in the movie where she's like, he needed to tell those parents to stick it where the sun don't shine. And you never get that moment of comeuppance really, you get it kind of like a more understanding of the mom in the movie and like where she's coming from. But those parents never get the comeuppance of like, Noah gets the girl and they get to be happy and have a family together. It's just like, ah, yes, this happens. And maybe her parents never talked to her again. I don't know. That's always something that I wondered about.

[25:11] Miranda: You see, I disagree with that, because I feel like that shouldn't matter. The thing that matters is they're in love for each other. And if she's doing it, just rebel against her parents, then that makes it not for their love. So I kind of appreciate the fact that we don't really get their parents' reaction to it. I know in a movie, we kind of want like, Oh, our neat ties were like wrapped up pleasantly. But I kind of like that. It's like, no, I'm doing this for me. And it doesn't matter how they react. Like one of the things I really liked about this is there's just a brief, brief, brief moment where we get to see Noah and Allie and Allie's pregnant with their kid, and they're just living their life. And I'm like, man, that's the thing I want. That's really the thing that makes life lovely is the things that happen between, you know, between getting back together and death.

[26:02] Jess: And that I understand where you're coming from. And I agree with you logically. But emotionally, that I want to be for my satisfaction, I want to see those parents get their comeuppance. And I also agree. I really think that in both adaptations, that's something that you are lacking. That would be lovely. And here's I always have the same comment. There's never enough falling action ever, ever, ever. There's never enough of that, like sweet time to just like relish in the fact that we've resolved whatever our main conflict was. And I think having that you're right, it would be so sweet to have just like a moment of them getting to finally be together. You don't get that really in the movie. And you only like you said, you only get a glimpse of it in the musical and I get it. I understand that that's not the point. We're short on time here and you got to focus on like the big relevant stuff. But can't we ever just let anything breathe?

[27:00] Miranda: Well, if you want a film that really lets you breathe and has a lot of falling action, I highly recommend a movie called The Daughters of the Domino.

[27:08] Jess: Oh, wow. I don't I don't know that I've ever heard of that in my entire life. Tell me more.

[27:14] Miranda: I might even say it has too much falling action. You know, it has been argued.

[27:21] Jess: By me sometimes.

[27:23] Miranda: Sometimes you're just like, hmm, but go see a kid's judge it for yourself. Just like the notebook.

[27:30] Jess: And on that note, what is our overall thoughts on The Notebook and our cheese ratings? Miranda, why don't you start us off?

[27:35] Miranda: That's so unfair. Why would you do that?

[27:38] Jess: Because technically, that's how I've always done it for everyone I've ever had this for.

[27:42] Miranda: I have no clue what what's like, hmm, maybe I'll say like, Brie, because it's kind of funky at first. But if you have like the right pairing with it, it can be extra ultra delicious. I'll say that. Does that is that satisfactory?

[28:00] Jess: I mean, it's your cheese rating. You have to live with it. I'm not your dad.

[28:06] Miranda: He's cheating as he always does. And he's looking up his previous cheese rating.

[28:10] Jess: I want to stay consistent.

[28:14] Miranda: I don't know what this means. But I want to say that this is my cheese. I enjoyed this a lot more than I thought I was. I thought I was going to be fairly negative. And maybe it sounds like I am, but I had a good time. I had my like fist pumping moments. I had my few belly laughs. I was impressed by the staging, like the way that it transitions between things. And it wasn't just a screen like we don't highlight that enough. And the cast altogether was great. My cheese rating and see if you can decipher what I mean by this. A cheesy lunch meltdown by Ingrid Michaelson.

[28:49] Jess: Maybe that's a song she wrote.

[28:54] Miranda: He doesn't even know he's looking his Excel spreadsheet of all his past cheese ratings. That's that's just what he thought two years ago, I guess. Andrew gave it a large Neap cheddar cheese, which goes well with a crab broil.

[29:06] Jess: I don't even I don't even know what you guys are doing. Anyway, next time on Theatre in the D, we are going to be seeing maybe happy ending, which is playing at the Fisher.

[29:17] Miranda: Oh, you know, we got one more.

[29:22] Jess: We do. What is it?

[29:26] Miranda: Dirty dancing, baby.

[29:30] Jess: No way. OK, when is dirty dancing?

[29:30] Miranda: That is coming up pretty quickly, I want to say.

[29:34] Jess: Oh, yes, you're right. OK, sorry. Next on. Next on an extra special episode of Musicals with Cheese for Theatre in the D, we will be seeing Dirty Dancing the musical, another romance movie adaptation into a musical. Let's see how that goes.

[29:48] Miranda: Wait, I think the person that owns my podcast network, like produced Dirty Dancing. I should I should ask her about this. This could be fun.

[29:57] Jess: Yeah, I'm excited. I've had the time of my life and I owe it all to you.

[30:02] Miranda: That's so sweet and corny. Anyway, we're going to be seeing Dirty Dancing the musical playing at the Fisher Theater from October 13th through the 18th. And then we'll be seeing maybe happy ending also at the Fisher Theater playing October 20th through November 1st. We have that to look forward to. And I think what you should do to end off this nice episode is to tell is to explain the random joke that you explained to me in the car about the lead older Noah from tonight's performance of The Notebook.

[30:24] Jess: It's not even a joke. It is a in Ted to Ted, the TV series. There is a moment where, you know, Ted and young Mark Wahlberg go to some department store guy and ask him to be an actor in their little pretend to be their school bully's dad to bully him. And he's like, I've always wanted to be an actor. You know, I was in Pippin as a kid. And, you know, who came to our production? John Rubin's Josh Rubinstein. And it's just a long pause.

[31:00] Miranda: The original Pippin.

[31:01] Jess: Oh, yeah, that's the guy. Yeah, he's the big guy. And he said, good job, everyone. And I knew he was talking to me. And truly, it feels bad because I just remember looking at the cast list. And I was like, Josh Rubinstein. Why is that name triggering like a neuron? It is John. John Rubinstein. I'm like, why is that firing a neuron? And then I Wikipedia it. And then that joke came a full full frame into my brain of just like, that's why the name specifically. And I know Pippin good enough, but I would never be able to pull that. And he did good for like an 11 billion year old actor. He's fantastic.

[31:40] Miranda: Yeah, John Rubinstein was it was an amazing older Noah tonight. And anyway, that's a great place to end it with a with a nice explanation of a joke like every man you've ever heard give you in a poorly lit bar when you didn't ask for it. Next, I'm doing half of dodgeball.

[32:01] Jess: Thank you for being with us and listening to this episode of Theatre in the D as very extra special episode and rendition of Musicals with Cheese. We appreciate you listening in. Thank you for being with us. Have a good rest of your night.