This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Jesse McAnally: You know, every time I have to spell Labyrinth, I have to think really, really hard about it. It's one of those weird ones, isn't it? Like, I... You just think Lab-er-ee-eth. I already got fucked up by you saying er. Well, I think part of it is because I'm pretty sure it's like a Greek root, so like all the letters are kind of... Get a load of this girl. She was on Jeopardy and won.

[0:27] Andrew DeWolf: What? Did you not? You knew that, right, Andrew? I think we talked about that last time.

[0:33] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, but Christy's a borderline genius. I wouldn't even say borderline. Christy is a genius. And if I have ever come off as smart on the Dear Friends show, it is mostly because I was next to her.

[0:58] Jesse McAnally: Hello, I'm Jesse McAnally.

[1:05] Andrew DeWolf: And I am Andrew DeWolf.

[1:06] Jesse McAnally: And welcome to Musicals with Cheese, a podcast where I try to get Andrew to like musical theater. And this week, we have an extra special returning guest, one of our favorite human beings. Please join me in welcoming Christy Esterly of Musical Hell!

[1:21] Christy Esterly: Hello!

[1:23] Jesse McAnally: Christy, it's so good to see you again. It's been too long.

[1:26] Christy Esterly: It has, it has. Always love coming here.

[1:29] Jesse McAnally: Yes, I feel like the last time you and I properly talked, we were talking about Wicked 4 Mid.

[1:34] Christy Esterly: Yes, that is a good name for it. Yeah, I think that was when we were all together with Tommy and Emily.

[1:42] Jesse McAnally: It's been too long. And you know what? I feel like our videos about Wicked have more lasting power in the culture than the Wicked movie.

[1:50] Christy Esterly: Yeah.

[1:54] Jesse McAnally: Unlike our topic today, which has a much, much involved in the lasting power of culture, this week, we are covering Labyrinth.

[2:04] Christy Esterly: Good Lord, what could I do? My baby's gone, had gone, and left my baby blue. Nobody knew. What kind of magic spell to use. Oh, what we don't tell. A new life. And they said. Dance, magic, dance.

[2:36] Jesse McAnally: So Labyrinth is a film directed by Jim Henson with a screenplay by Monty Python's Terry Jones and a story by Dennis Lee and Jim Henson. It stars David Bowie and Jennifer Connelly and is a pretty wacky little adventure. 16-year-old Sarah is given 13 hours to solve a labyrinth and rescue her baby brother, Toby, when her wish for him to be taken away is granted by the Goblin King, Jareth. All right, Christy, when was the first time you watched Labyrinth?

[3:05] Christy Esterly: Oh, geez. It's been so long and I've seen it so many times, I don't even remember. But I mean, it was certainly, you know, not terribly long after it came out, like late 80s, early 90s. Yes, I am that old. I am sorry, people. This was very much a, you know, a my generation thing, because this is, you know, two phenomena that, you know, I'm really nostalgic for. The first is the 80s fantasy movie. There is just like a certain aesthetic to the 80s fantasy. I mean, a lot of them were like really cheesy and really terrible. Like just recently, I rewatched Legend after the passing of Tim Curry, because, of course, he plays, you know, darkness in that with like the big horns and everything.

[3:54] Jesse McAnally: I did too.

[3:55] Christy Esterly: And, you know, it's like, you know, the movie is, the story is kind of a little bit of a mess, but he is absolutely perfect in it. And the aesthetic of it is just, you know, chef's kiss. Did you watch the director's cut or the original cut?

[4:09] Christy Esterly: I actually did watch the director's cut. I have like an ultimate like edition DVD, which has both the directors and the original and, of course, consequently, both the Jerry Goldsmith and the Tangerine Dream scores. So I like the director's quote quite a bit. And really, like I said in my letterbox review, that dance with like the demon version of herself. Oh my God, the ball gown dress. That was, you know, that was such a thing for me. But yeah, so like, you know, I love, love 80s fantasy. That is my vibe. But also this is one of those movies that was very much of, you know, the VHS cult hit. A lot, this happened quite a lot, probably the most, probably the ultimate example is the Princess Bride.

Something came out in theaters, it flopped. And, you know, it might have disappeared. But then it went on video and it got into Blockbuster and all the other shows and people started picking it up and they started watching it and they loved it and like watched it over and over again. And until the point that it kind of got into, you know, the whole Gen X millennial cultural language. And unfortunately, that's something I think, you know, we could almost have with streaming services. But we don't just because they are terrible and will not let us and will not like keep anything around if they don't see any value in it. So yeah, and also, you know, Jim Henson is really one of my idols. He was such a creative and, you know, gentle, kind person, I guess. He just, you know, his imagination and his way of looking at life, I've always found very inspiring. So yeah, all around this is, you know, one of my dear, you know, nostalgic films.

[5:57] Jesse McAnally: Um, that's, I mean, that's so great, because especially compared to me and Andrew, I've watched this for the first time within the last year. And Andrew watched it yesterday, or this morning yesterday, which is very different takes in different points of views. Like we knew the cultural references, we knew the dance magic dance, we knew the David Bowie crotch of it all, but we've never experienced the film proper. And I enjoyed it more than I expected. The third act kind of lingered a little longer than I would have preferred, but I had a great time watching it. And like, there are specific nightmare imagery from it that I was really compelled by. And I was impressed by all the work. But also, I could feel like Terry Jones, very effective director, don't know how clear headed a writer he is. And I know that this traveled through different hands and different writers started with Terry Jones and went to a different writer and a different writer and ended up back with Terry Jones.

[7:00] Christy Esterly: Yeah, it's, I don't know all the most, but I actually have like a old like an old draft script of Labyrinth. I actually found it in like tattered cover, which was this bookstore in Denver for like a long time. And then unfortunately, I think it finally closed down, but it was like an institution. But yeah, I found this and like I was able to go through it, it was very interesting. I mean, it didn't have any of the music or any of the songs or anything, just ideas of where the songs were supposed to be. And a lot of it was very similar, but a lot of it was like, oh, okay, that's interesting. Like, for example, the baby's name was Freddy in it, which was unusual. And that's, you know, that's actually one of the fun things about this is, you know, this was one of two movies that Jim Henson did with Brian Froud, the first being The Dark Crystal.

And you know, Brian Froud basically came up with the entire aesthetic of that with through his illustrations and everything. One of the illustrations he did, when I think kind of in between this was like this little baby in these red and white striped pajamas surrounded by all these goblins and strange fairy creatures. Well, apparently, his wife, Wendy, was pregnant at the time. And the baby came out. But basically, I'm, you know, probably because he was maybe inspired by, you know, some pictures, family pictures or something, but essentially, the baby looked more or less like what he had drawn. And so that is how Toby Froud became Toby the baby in this movie. And you know, he grew, he kind of grew up around this.

And now he owns his own production company called Striped Pajama Productions. So and just because you got to be a little baby in a movie, yeah, you got to be a little baby surrounded by Muppets and David Bowie. And you know, but I can mean, you know, he also grew up with like, obviously very creative and imaginative parents. So yeah, and he's like a puppeteer in his own right.

[8:48] Christy Esterly: Yes, he is working on Cuba, the two strings and Guillermo del Toro Pinocchio. He found he found his niche. And I wonder if it had anything to do with Muppets surrounding you at a formative age.

[9:09] Jesse McAnally: Andrew, on first watch, what did you think of Labyrinth?

[9:13] Andrew DeWolf: I honestly, I think I was expecting a very different movie. Like, I didn't realize that I really I just didn't realize it was like a modern day setting that they go into this like fantasy world. I guess I just thought it was like a fantasy movie through and through. So that's how little I knew about the movie, by the way. You've got poor Jennifer Connelly, like doing this really weird monologue to camera at first. And then we just learned that she just wants to go LARPing with all of her friends. She's like rehearsing for a play, basically. But yeah, I think she's kind of live action role play. That's her thing. Come on. Yeah, she's like shows up in like this medieval gown and is talking to this, you know, barn owl, which is possibly also the Goblin King.

It's a little fuzzy on that. But the ending makes it seem like that. But yeah, but yeah, and then she's like, you know, talks about like, she's like, darn it, I forgot when she's like flipping through, you know, looks for a book. So yeah, that's kind of, you know, where she is. She's kind of Sarah is kind of starts off living in this like, you know, dream play world. You know, fairy tales and castles. I mean, you can see it in her room, you know, she's like all this stuff, which if you look at it actually is stuff that actually comes into excuse me. Happ is actually goes is a little bit Wizard of Oz in that you actually see all this stuff in the labyrinth. Like there's a stuffed toy that looks like Sir Didymus.

There's the M.C. Escher painting that they took the big staircase room from the climax from and the little music box with the ballroom dress the whole nine yards. Excuse me. So yeah, she's this is very much a rite of passage movie. And she's very still much in that child like play state. But she's also I've heard she's supposed to be anywhere between 14 or 16 depending on the script and who's telling the story. And she has to watch her stepbrother, half brother actually, while her dad and her stepmother, you know, go out on their date night. And she does not want to do that. And she just kind of one wish willows her brother to not be around anymore.

[11:27] Jesse McAnally: Yeah. Is it real, though? Like, I feel like it's almost implied that maybe she's imagining the whole thing. You know, that is one of those things where it's really up to the person's interpretation. You know, I think to a certain extent, you know, it is if it is kind of if I may paraphrase a author who has certainly fallen out of favor in the past several years for obvious reasons. Of course, it's all in her head. But that doesn't mean it's not real.

[11:57] Andrew DeWolf: No, no, I agree with that. Like, I think the movie stands like, as an audience member, it all happens. It's just right. Script wise, are they trying to sort of put it in like, well, we were kind of watching what she was imagining a little bit.

[12:12] Christy Esterly: Well, yeah. And that's the thing. I mean, it does it's it never really it's never really clear. And I think at the end, it doesn't really matter. I mean, the last bit makes it really blurry, where like, all her friends come back and we have a dance party and she's dancing and they're all having a party in her room. And yeah. And then you kind of have the owl watching them before it flies off. So yeah, it's one of those parents are home. Yeah. It's one of those, you know, was it all a dream or was it things which, you know, can be a little annoying sometimes, but I kind of think works in this case. I mean, if we're in like a fairy tale, I always give that a pass there, like, because I'd much rather that just be the magical realism that we're playing with, opposed to, you know, like if a

[12:55] Christi: Our film did that thing, I think I'd be a lot more pissed off.

[12:58] Jess: Yeah.

[13:00] Christi: So you were on the younger side, because we're coming into this as adults, and a lot of people grew up with this film as kind of like intro to dark fantasy. And I'm trying to imagine kids today and whether or not this is a good gateway anymore.

[13:19] Jess: I think it's still great. I love it, but I think it's more made for us.

[13:23] Christi: Yeah, I think, you know, it's specifically if you were a girl growing up with this movie, there is, you know, a certain, let me see if I can explain this, you kind of relate to, you know, kind of Sarah's adolescent journey, you know, kind of, you know, still wanting to have that kind of dream fantasy stuff, but also the responsibilities and also, you know, the strength of adulthood is calling to you and coming into your own. And, you know, there's definitely, there is more than a little bit of sexual awakening, kind of going on in the subtext here. I mean, you know, I mean, you've got David Bowie strutting around full rock star pants that leave absolutely nothing to the imagination. And then, you know, in this moment, she has, and, you know, he kind of, you know, semi seduces her with this elegant ball dance, masquerade ball where she's wearing this ball gown and he's singing this love song to her.

[14:27] Jess: Yeah.

[14:28] Christi: And then at the very end, they have their final confrontation and he's trying to, you know, convince her, you know, to just do what he wants. And he says, you know, just fear me, love me, do as I say, and I will be your slave. And I'm like, how many, how many BDSM kinks got kickstarted by that one line? So, yeah, there is, yeah, there's a lot going on there that, you know, even as a child, you know, you're kind of, kind of, kind of cluing into, but not entirely. And I think that's one of the attractions of it.

[15:00] Jess: Yeah, I guess. I mean, part of me just, like, craved, like, I understand the Alice in Wonderland, like, oh, we're just going through the things, but, like, part of me was also just craving, I want a three act structure, please, please just give me something to hold on to.

[15:17] Christi: That is a, that is a kind of a little bit of a drawback is that it's, you know, it's very episodic. I mean, she meets these people, she meets this person, she has this adventure, there's this thing happening.

[15:30] Jess: I kind of like it.

[15:31] Christi: No, and it is, it is, you know, it is very Wizard of Oz, you know, she gets, she starts to gather some friends who help her. You know, the first of which is Hoggle, a dwarf who she doesn't know is working, supposed to be working for Jareth, but then, you know, he starts to like her and starts to get conflicted about it. But also there's Ludo, like this big teddy bear of a creature. And then there's Sir Didymus, who's like this little dog who thinks he's, you know, wants to be like this brave knight and his—

[16:04] Jess: Who rides a different dog.

[16:05] Christi: Yeah, who rides a different dog. Yeah, he's always like, he's always talking in this like very posh, you know, pseudo Shakespearean way of saying things and he's always charging into, always charging into battle and he's, he's so fun. So yeah, but that's a lot, they're, they're a lot of fun. But yeah, and there's, and there's obviously other stuff happens. There's like some puzzles she has to solve. There's after the ballroom, you know, she kind of, she's kind of forgotten, you know, who she is or what she's doing. And like this junk lady tricks her into this old, this place that looks exactly like her old room, you know, trying to, again, trying to get her to stay in that room and in that childlike state. And you know, she eventually realizes, you know, all of these toys and stuff. This is, this is all junk. This is not who I am. So yeah, there's that.

[16:58] Christi: There is. And it's, we said, you say, we agree, it's episodic. And it's something I struggled with while, while making my film as well. It's just like, sometimes when you're just having fun introducing these characters and these wacky events, you kind of forget the stakes.

[17:18] Jess: You kind of, yeah, you kind of forget what's going on, what's going on. Because yeah, there's, there's moments, obviously, where, you know, it is very much a part of her rite of passage, like the whole scene with the ball, with the ballroom hallucination and the junk lady, that's very much her having to grow out of that fantasy. And well, not necessarily grow out of it, but master it. Because I think that's another reason why, you know, this appeals, especially to adolescent girls, is that, you know, ultimately this, you know, you've got like, you know, the big sexy villain who, you know, kind of appeals in a certain way. But in the end, it's the girl who has the strength and who, who conquers him. But in this case, just by saying, you know, you, you don't control me, you have no power over me.

[18:08] Christi: So yeah, there is that. But there's also like these moments where just, you know, like weird stuff happens, like she meets this cute little worm, or the old guy with the hat, or the hands, or the Oh, my God, the helping hands are creepy hands.

[18:23] Jess: So the door puzzle, does she solve the door puzzle?

[18:27] Christi: This actually does. This is actually one of the ways of solving the classic one always tells the truth one always lies thing. She asks, would the other guy tell me that this is the right door? And he says, Yes. So if we assume that she has asked the guy who is telling the truth, then the guy who is always who always lies would say no, that is not the right door. But he's lying. So yes, that is the right door. But if she asked the guy who's lying, then the other guy would not say that is the right door. And he is telling the truth. Or, you know, I've just confused myself now.

[19:01] Jess: Does she pick the wrong the wrong door, though?

[19:04] Christi: No, she picks the right door. It's just, she's like, you know, she gets cocky. That's and that's kind of one of the rules of labyrinth is that, you know, you can't, you can't get overconfident with it. She's like, Oh, this is so easy. It's a piece of cake. And then, you know, she just gets dropped in the trap.

[19:21] Jess: So the helping hands, though, that was the correct way to go.

[19:23] Christi: That was the correct way to go. Yeah.

[19:25] Jess: So what is behind the other door?

[19:27] Christi: Certain death.

[19:28] Jess: They just kill you instantly.

[19:30] Christi: You end up into like the little crystal ball of Jareth and he's like, Oh, no one ever picks the right door.

[19:41] Jess: Have we heard the conversation about a sequel?

[19:45] Christi: I mean, how would you even do that?

[19:47] Jess: Often on, you know, people have talked about that. I mean, there's like been like a manga sequel to it. There's, you know, but honestly, I'm not sure how you do it, especially, you know, since, well, David Bowie obviously is no longer with us. And I'm not sure, you know, how you would fill his, you know, shoes.

[20:06] Christi: The most recent rumor, well, not rumor, like conversation being had is with Robert Eggers, who did Nosferatu and all that and doing that working a sequel. And I think Bill Skarsgård was in talks of stepping into Bowie's role.

[20:23] Jess: Yeah, so much dark.

[20:25] Christi: I'm sorry. Yeah. Eggers does not have that. Eggers is a fantastic director. Do not get me wrong. I love Lighthouse. I love Nosferatu. But he's also very dark. And I think very, I'm not sure if cynical in a way, certainly very grim. He doesn't have like that kind of childlike wonder that, you know, you get from Henson. So yeah, it feels like, you know, if he did do that, it would be too much on the dark and edgy side. And I think it would lose something intrinsic of what makes this so good. I also think his whole thing is like historical accuracy and things like that. Like, why would he do this like fantasy that's modern day? I don't. I don't know. I cannot even imagine him doing a story set in modern day, let alone.

[21:15] Jess: Right. I guess maybe he could do it in the 80s.

[21:18] Christi: I had everyone speak in authentic 80s English, 80s slang.

[21:25] Jess: Authentic 80s slang. Awesome. Yeah.

[21:28] Christi: Very radical or whatever. Cowabunga dude.

[21:31] Jess: Cowabunga. Don't have a cow, ma'am. Do the Bart, ma'am.

[21:37] Christi: No, that's 90s. That's early 90s.

[21:39] Jess: Damn. Damn. I was not there. I'm just guessing.

[21:43] Christi: I was there, Gandalf.

[21:50] Jess: I mean, we should talk about the David Bowie of it all. We've kind of only hinted at him.

[21:54] Christi: Yeah. Generational performance, impactful, like just as far as iconography and a visual alone. And on set, he must have felt fucking ridiculous because I can just imagine, you know, kind of a little bit surrounded by puppets. But OK, so the thing was, you know, first Hanson and Froud did the Dark Crystal, which technically, you know, they say it has no humans in it. There's obviously like some body doubles for the Gelflings and everything. But yeah, pretty much all the characters are puppets. And so for the next one, they wanted to do something with, you know, at least a couple of humans in there. And they kind of wanted their antagonist to be kind of this, you know, sexy rock star figure. So I'm pretty sure Sting, I think Sting was floated as an option. I'm pretty sure Michael Jackson was, which how how weird would that have been in retrospect?

[22:55] Jess: David Bowie is the right choice.

[22:56] Christi: Yeah. And they landed on David Bowie, which, yeah, I agree is the right choice because he does have that kind of almost supernatural quality about him. You know, he's very, you know, he's he's kind of got that natural charisma and sex appeal to him, you know, and just that kind of way that he can, you know, kind of be, you know, a little bit intimidating and a little bit scary, but also a little bit attractive at the same time.

[23:28] Jess: And he never feels dangerous in the way that men feel dangerous around women.

[23:33] Christi: No, I mean, yeah, I mean, and yeah, because that's the thing. I mean, when you get right down to it, we have, you know, a I'm pretty sure, you know, 16 to 18 year old Jennifer Connelly. She was very, you know, this was she might have done Requiem of a Dream before this, but this was definitely one of her very first movie roles up against, you know, Bowie, who is 30s, 40s at the time. I mean, this dynamic could come off as extremely wrong, but it doesn't because on a certain level, because on a certain level, again, this is Sarah's fantasy. This is, you know, her idea of what, you know, this kind of person should be like. There's there's a kind of a little bit of backstory, which we never really gets into.

But if you look in her room, she has like a scrapbook, and in it is like, you know, a picture of her birth mother, who's implied to be like this actress in, you know, with her in a like, in a publicity still with her co star, who is David Bowie. So yeah, I think this, you know, we talked about, you know, how much of this is fantasy, you know, it's either, you know, she's created, you know, this idea, you know, this image of this, you know, sexy, you know, villain character, you know, faking, or, you know, this, you know, otherworldly creature has kind of adopted that persona for her in order to attract her. And, you know, in that case, you know, it does kind of have, you know, that sense that feeling that it's kind of romantic, because that's how she sees it.

[25:17] Jess: And it, it works, like,

[25:19] Christi: works.

[25:20] Jess: Yeah, I bring up Michael Jackson, that would have definitely read a little differently. But I'm still thinking of just like any other performer, or any other rock or pop star at the time.

[25:30] Christi: Yeah, I mean, and that's the thing, you know, he's, you know, he's obviously intimidating, you know, he's obviously a little, you know, the the ballroom, you know, he's obviously kind of coming on tour, but it never feels predatory. Yeah.

[25:50] Christi: Hits the way that David Bowie does as far as that androgynous, sexy and good actor like there's many that I've tried, but I'm not sure, you know, maybe, you know, maybe Lady Gaga comes close. But I mean, even then, it's like, you know, that's he was I mean, he was an original in all the in every possible sense of the word. So, yeah, like I. Yeah, OK. If they remade Labyrinth and his Lady Gaga as the Goblin Queen. I could. Yeah, I could kind of I could kind of see that happening. I'd be OK. I'm seeing a film in my head that I might go check out. But what would be the chances making it today? Like everything would just be a CGI nightmare.

[26:36] Andrew: Yeah. Yeah. And that's another thing. That's, you know, the charm of the 80s fantasy is like all the practical effects, which, you know, in many cases were very good for the time. I mean, Hoggle was a very sophisticated, you know, animatronic. They have like about I think like 20 to 20 some servos like doing all his facial expressions. So, yeah, there's that. And then you've got, I think, you know, a little person was, you know, kind of, you know, doing the body. And then you had the voice, which was done by Henson, Brian Henson, Jim Henson's son.

[27:15] Christi: So, yeah, I end up marrying me. A servo Servino from Legend.

[27:20] Andrew: Yeah. Mia, Sarah. Yes. OK. Yes. So, yeah, there. So, I mean, that's really good. And, you know, it's just it's just very charming in the way they do it. I mean, it's obvious that there are matte paintings. It's obvious when the dog, when Sir did a missus, you know, steed ambrosius, it's obvious when that's a real dog and obvious when it's a puppet. But it's so much. It's just so, so sweet. It's so charming. I can't think of any other word for it. The scenes are a benefit, not a detriment.

[27:53] Christi: And that's the thing of these kind of films, like even all of Henson's work, like when you can just tell that the Muppet is being thrown into the street as a life thing. That's the thing that's entertaining. Henson was Henson was all about, you know, the suspension of disbelief and, you know, understanding that, you know, people on a certain level recognize that, you know, Kermit is, you know, just a puppet. But the fact is, is that the puppet is so interesting and and he works it so well so that when people when he uses it, you know, nobody's paying attention to this like this skinny bearded guy because Kermit the Frog is sitting right there and talking.

[28:36] Andrew: And so it's very much that buy in to the to the illusion, which, you know, I think is is something that we all need every now and then.

[28:46] Christi: And the humanity of trying to eliminate it.

[28:48] Andrew: Yeah. Too much, too much effort trying to eliminate part of the fun of seeing something like this.

[28:53] Christi: Yeah. Which is tricking yourself into thinking it's real.

[28:58] Andrew: And then you've got a coming in to even remove the last stash of humanity. Oh, my God.

[29:04] Christi: We make.

[29:05] Andrew: Yeah.

[29:05] Christi: Like the quote unquote interviews with Tilly Norwood. And it's like there was nothing behind the eyes.

[29:12] Andrew: Guys, it's super intelligence.

[29:14] Christi: Yeah, that's like I am not watching anything with that in there.

[29:21] Andrew: And it makes me depressed.

[29:24] Christi: Honestly, it did just depress the shit out of me. Rewatching Labyrinth for this, which is just like, man, no one will put this much effort into a film that might flop.

[29:34] Andrew: Which gives me the the other plaid wearing man in the room, the George Lucas of it all, who is just giving Jim Henson the runway to do whatever he wanted with it.

[29:45] Christi: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's there's certainly a lot to be said for like that 70s and 80s, you know, group of, you know, creatives who were just like, you know, playing, playing with toys basically and having fun with what they could do with it. You know, and some, you know, sometimes it was like the, you know, just trying things with like new things.

[30:06] Andrew: The title sequence is actually one of the earlier instances of CGI animation in movies with the owl flying through the credits.

[30:14] Christi: So, yeah, that but yeah, it wasn't because it wasn't because they thought, oh, my God, this looks so cool because, you know, back it was the 80s and it was still kind of, yeah, it was because it was it was something that they could play with and experiment with and see what they could do with. And it was it worked.

[30:31] Andrew: And the fact that George Lucas followed this up with Howard the Duck like that, oh, my God, yes.

[30:38] Christi: Oh, and I kind of like that movie.

[30:41] Andrew: I know I'm wrong, but I kind of enjoy that movie.

[30:44] Christi: I admit, OK, I admit I liked it as a kid. I think I didn't quite get, you know, probably possibly because I didn't quite understand a lot of what was going on. But it was like there was a duck puppet and he's funny.

[30:55] Andrew: It's teasing Howard the Duck for for the Marvel Cinematic Universe. And they never get around to it. Whatever. Just do it already. Stop it. You can't do what George Lucas succeeded in in the 80s.

[31:07] Christi: Yeah. George Lucas back.

[31:09] Andrew: 82 year old George Lucas can do Howard the Duck again.

[31:14] Christi: You know what I did?

[31:16] Andrew: Sell me on that Marvel experiment.

[31:19] Christi: If they did that.

[31:20] Andrew: Speaking of doing crazy things, let's go into a mid show.

[31:31] Christi: Oh,

[31:42] Andrew: Do you know me?

[31:42] Christi: I created the Muppets.

[31:45] Andrew: Oh, everybody knows them, but not me.

[31:48] Christi: So when I travel, I carry the American Express card.

[31:51] Andrew: It's backed by over a thousand travel service offices around the world.

[31:55] Christi: And each one is like a home away from home, except the Muppets aren't there.

[31:58] Andrew: Hey, wait a minute.

[32:02] Christi: To apply for the card, look for an application and take one.

[32:06] Andrew: The American Express card.

[32:07] Christi: Don't leave home without it.

[32:12] Andrew: You think, you know,

[32:15] Christi: The killer will strike again.

[32:18] Andrew: And burst into fire.

[32:28] Christi: You're wrong.

[32:35] Andrew: Fire. Walk with me.

[32:37] Christi: Rated R. Now playing at a theater near you.

[32:58] Andrew: Hey, guys, sorry to interrupt you in the middle of the show, but we've got to shill at you. Today's show is brought to you by the extremely kind donations by our donors over at Patreon. Andrew, tell us a little bit about Patreon. What's going on over there and who's supporting us?

[33:09] Andrew: Oh, man. Patreon is where you can go if you'd like to just give us some money. Also, we get a bunch of extra content for you up there. We have a whole extra podcast over there with Liz and Jess going. So a lot of good stuff to check out, plus the whole backlog. So also you could watch us live. We actually have someone in here right now.

[33:30] Christi: M. Gracie.

[33:32] Andrew: Yeah. Make Gaga the daughter of the.

[33:35] Christi: I'd watch it.

[33:36] Andrew: That's a it's not a bad idea.

[33:38] Christi: All right. I'm going to go ahead and read our current patrons. Our current patrons are Leighton A. Ewan Cassidy, Monica Thoreau, Brent Black, John Van Nals, Russ Walker, Musical Hell, Janay C. Nothing is certain except Beth in Texas, Desbian, Roof Geese, EJ Francis, Chris Marcote, Keidra Marie Anastasio, R.J. Noriega, Joe Toriana Frazier, Sammy, the adequate amount. Jacobson Vilnius, Miss the Omega Geek, Maddie Wargo, Eliza Erdman, Rora Marasso, Mara Puffy Boy, Ana B. Gold Platy, Kiki Mora, Ari Ardy, Carl Baldasso, JRL Studios, Triberty Jigot, Caleb Bailey, Davin Willis, Sofita Hurtado, Jessica Pants Pants, Casey Denning, Liz Montmoreau and Jose Gonzalez.

[34:24] Andrew: These people help us keep the lights on here at Meet Schools with Cheese. And if you would like to join them in supporting us and watch us live and see our beautiful faces and Christy's beautiful room and beautiful face and lovely vibe. Come join them over at Patreon. We've had Maddie Wargo joining us this entire time, correcting us and saying that Robert Agers is working on a Romeo and Juliet movie and saying that they want Lady Gaga to play the daughter of the Goblin King, which I think would actually work. But no one no one asked me to make movies ever.

[34:55] Christi: No, no, no one will ever get to do it without anyone.

[34:59] Andrew: Anyway, it turned out great.

[35:01] Christi: Oh, that's very kind of you.

[35:03] Andrew: You know, you should you should just pitch the idea.

[35:05] Christi: Let's just bring Labyrinth 2 to the studio.

[35:07] Andrew: You can do it.

[35:08] Christi: You know, if I bring a gun, I can pitch whatever I want.

[35:11] Andrew: I'm going to make Labyrinth 2 or I'm going to blow you away.

[35:16] Christi: Wait, wait. Who owns Labyrinth at this point?

[35:19] Andrew: Because Lucasfilm got so is it a Disney film now?

[35:21] Christi: Might be because they got a lot of the Hansen stuff.

[35:25] Andrew: So I'm really not sure where that's at right now.

[35:28] Christi: So I go into it's not Bob Iger that Josh D'Amato's room.

[35:33] Andrew: And I'm like, all right, put put the labyrinth in the bag.

[35:36] Christi: Put it in the bag.

[35:39] Andrew: Give me the deed to Labyrinth.

[35:43] Christi: Let's get back to the show.

[35:51] Andrew: Oh,

[36:01] Christi: No one

[36:05] Andrew: Caring over the week,

[36:09] Christi: Mirror of line, I'll shine some light on this mystery.

[36:13] Andrew: There they are.

[36:14] Christi: They are.

[36:17] Andrew: Oh, and I want to be part of

[36:20] Christi: My complete breakfast.

[36:23] Andrew: Oh, kitty behind you.

[36:26] Christi: Yeah, yeah.

[36:28] Andrew: Come on.

[36:31] Christi: From Walt Disney Pictures.

[36:32] Andrew: They've got looks.

[36:33] Christi: Bobo Bobo.

[36:35] Andrew: They've got style.

[36:36] Christi: Are you boys a little old to be trick or treating?

[36:39] Andrew: They've got the whole world at their fingertips.

[36:43] Christi: It's a story of three wicked witches.

[36:45] Andrew: I smell children who took flight.

[36:48] Christi: And the three kids determined to stop them before they run amok.

[36:55] Andrew: Hocus Pocus rated P.G. starts Friday, July 16th at a theater near you.

[37:00] Andrew: It's time for everyone's favorite part of the show, where Andrew and Christy have to go head to head to guess whether these real life letterbox reviews are one star or five star based on nothing but the review alone. It's time for a brief use.

[37:28] Christi: It's time for a brief review.

[37:31] Andrew: Brief review.

[37:34] Christi: It's time for brief use.

[37:39] Andrew: All right, Andrew, you're up first.

[37:41] Andrew: OK, OK.

[37:42] Christi: You sound so enthused about this.

[37:45] Andrew: I just I lost last week and I feel like it's going to happen again.

[37:49] Christi: You never know. Maybe you could win this time.

[37:51] Andrew: I mean, Christy did win 25 grand on Jeopardy, so I would guess you're it's probably not in your favor.

[37:58] Christi: She's really good at games.

[38:00] Andrew: I'm not good at guessing what people think. I just know crap.

[38:05] Christi: Fair enough.

[38:07] Andrew: All right, Andrew. First one, it'll be easy.

[38:10] Christi: Damn, bro, we see it.

[38:15] Andrew: I believe I understand what they're referring to. I suppose the pants could have been tighter if if we wanted, but um, oh, that's that's tough. I'm going to say I'm going to say five.

[38:29] Christi: That is correct.

[38:33] Andrew: I think I think it really depends on who wrote that. If it's a five or a one. I mean, some people just like to see his Jareth.

[38:43] Christi: All right, Christy, your turn.

[38:45] Christi: His balls.

[38:46] Christi: Her not going inside to meet the Worms Mrs. pissed me off.

[38:53] Andrew: Oh geez, I don't know. Not going inside to see the Worms Mrs. Would've been a very different movie, certainly. Just have tea with a couple of little worms. That could've helped her a lot more.

[39:06] Jess: Yeah, she knew exactly where to go. I'm guessing that's a one star.

[39:11] Christi: I'm sorry, Kristi, that is incorrect.

[39:14] Andrew: Oh, geez, OK. Like, you can like the movie, but still not like it. I don't know. People just put random shit under their ratings.

[39:24] Jess: As someone with a film that has random shit ratings, yeah, this has become a dehumanizing activity for me at this point.

[39:33] Christi: Why do you even bother rating them, honestly? What are you going to gain?

[39:40] Andrew: A new form of body and creative dysmorphia.

[39:44] Jess: OK. You know, it's like, oh, I found a new reason to hate myself today.

[39:48] Andrew: OK.

[39:50] Andrew: Going to curse my ops with a Bog of Eternal Stench from now on.

[39:56] Christi: Fuck.

[39:57] Andrew: Yeah, I kept expecting somebody to fall into that thing, but nobody ever did.

[40:05] Jess: Bog of Eternal Stench, it looks nasty.

[40:07] Christi: It looks like there's a bunch of like anuses in it.

[40:10] Andrew: Yeah, and it makes the most wonderful sounds.

[40:13] Jess: It's just it's just farting.

[40:14] Christi: It's just.

[40:15] Andrew: Well, yeah, but it's it's it's a symphony of farting.

[40:19] Christi: You have the depth and breadth of flatulence going on in that bog.

[40:25] Jess: True. True. And maybe that's why they thought Robert Eggers, because there's a lot of farting in the lighthouse.

[40:31] Christi: All those beans.

[40:32] Andrew: We're going to go with one.

[40:34] Jess: Andrew, that was a five. You're wrong.

[40:37] Andrew: Motherfucker, dude.

[40:38] Christi: OK, that's all right.

[40:39] Andrew: That's all right. I still have the lead right now.

[40:42] Christi: You do. You do.

[40:43] Christi: Christy, you can take this and tie it.

[40:46] Christi: We'll see.

[40:47] Andrew: Why they give a child LSD and ship her with an adult.

[40:50] Christi: The woman, the worm was funny.

[40:53] Andrew: OK, that's got to be a one star.

[40:55] Christi: That is correct.

[40:58] Jess: What is with the worm? He's just I mean, he's just there and he's cute and he's funny and he has a little scene. There's nothing else.

[41:07] Christi: And he could have solved the movie easily.

[41:10] Andrew: And those are always like the most that way and gone straight to the castle.

[41:15] Jess: Andrew, happy first day of spooky season.

[41:19] Christi: And we're recording this.

[41:21] Jess: We're recording this on the first day of spooky season. You might as well just have the review say today is today and like.

[41:27] Andrew: What now?

[41:31] Christi: Fuck five.

[41:33] Andrew: I was a one.

[41:34] Christi: Are you fucking kidding?

[41:35] Andrew: What the fuck?

[41:37] Christi: I can't believe you didn't fall.

[41:39] Andrew: See, like right through my like pivot to positivity there.

[41:42] Christi: Right through it.

[41:43] Jess: OK, as if you wouldn't have read it the same way if it was a five.

[41:50] Christi: All right, Christy, you've won this or no, you've tied this.

[41:54] Andrew: You maybe I don't know.

[41:56] Christi: No, no, no. You've tied this.

[41:57] Christi: So you can win this here.

[41:58] Andrew: Maybe you'll see.

[41:59] Christi: Yeah. Inner child still not healed.

[42:03] Andrew: I think that's a five star.

[42:05] Christi: That was a one. You tied it.

[42:07] Andrew: Ah, the most unsatisfying ending.

[42:11] Jess: Unlike Labyrinth, which has a pretty upbeat ending where everyone's dancing.

[42:18] Christi: Speaking of dancing, let's talk about some of these songs in Labyrinth.

[42:23] Jess: Well, we got to start with the magic dance.

[42:27] Christi: Oh, yeah. Iconic the iconic dance magic dance. Yes.

[42:35] Andrew: The power.

[42:36] Christi: The power to do what you do, do what you do.

[42:40] Andrew: I saw my baby crying for the space.

[42:47] Christi: What could I do?

[42:49] Andrew: My baby's gone.

[42:52] Christi: You left my baby blue.

[42:56] Andrew: Nobody knew.

[42:59] Christi: What kind of magic spell to use?

[43:03] Andrew: I feel like the only thing I really knew about the song was the intro, which, you know, I feel like is taken from something else like it is.

[43:14] Christi: It does come from like some older 40s or 50s movie. I'm sorry, I don't know which one right now.

[43:19] Andrew: But yeah, and it's yeah, that's kind of the thing, because the call and response of it is just memetic.

[43:25] Christi: I mean, you go into any certain, you know, Internet or even real world forum and just say, you remind me of the babe and you'll get the whole thing.

[43:34] Andrew: Yeah. And it's just like I brought this up last week in an episode on shock treatment, which is like you see other musicals try to have that, like specifically rebuild the genetic opera with like the x-rayed anatomy of just like, yeah, I do a call and response thing.

[43:48] Christi: And it just doesn't work.

[43:51] Andrew: It doesn't hit that part of your brain that you want scratched nearly as well.

[43:55] Christi: Yes, it's yeah.

[43:56] Andrew: It's like the what they the who from Roger Rabbit shaving a haircut thing.

[44:00] Christi: You can't leave it there.

[44:02] Andrew: Not at all.

[44:04] Jess: Andrew, had you heard?

[44:05] Andrew: Yeah, of course you've heard the call and response. You remind me of the babe. What babe? Babe with the power.

[44:10] Christi: Power is actually there's a song that probably is taking inspiration from this, but it's a it's like a neo swing song that does that whole thing.

[44:19] Andrew: And that's like the whole song.

[44:21] Christi: And we got Muppets all over the place for this entire song.

[44:24] Andrew: And they're thrown around a baby.

[44:26] Christi: Yeah, he's throwing a baby up in the air.

[44:29] Andrew: And yeah, it's actually David Bowie doing the gurgles in it because they couldn't get they couldn't get the baby to gurgle on cue.

[44:35] Christi: So, you know, he's just doing that.

[44:38] Andrew: I love them throwing the baby suit.

[44:40] Christi: Oh, yeah, they're throwing the baby. They're having a grand old, you know, Muppet Muppet bad guy time.

[44:47] Andrew: And it feels fun.

[44:50] Christi: Like, yeah, you know, like a way where it's like these are bad guys, but they don't feel dangerous.

[44:56] Andrew: No, no, no. I mean, it's like it's like the monsters on The Muppet Show.

[45:01] Christi: I mean, they're like weird and spooky and scary, but they're fun.

[45:05] Andrew: You know, I don't think he's even that evil.

[45:06] Christi: He just wants to have a new goblin.

[45:09] Andrew: Yeah.

[45:09] Christi: And what's so bad about becoming a goblin?

[45:12] Andrew: Yeah, it's like she didn't want him like I want him.

[45:17] Christi: You know, I mean that, you know, I mean, that's kind of the whole thing.

[45:21] Andrew: I mean, you know, you had like, you know, pretty much half of the people who grew up with this and have siblings are like, yeah, I get it.

[45:28] Christi: She wanted her. She wished her brother away to the goblins.

[45:30] Andrew: I do that like five times a week.

[45:34] Christi: I mean, I just never. It just she just happened to have it come true. Lucky girl.

[45:39] Jess: had it come true as well.

[45:42] Christi: He went down to the goblin world and now he's all right.

[45:46] Andrew: I mean, let's talk about the scene that I actually don't particularly like, and that is that the fire is chilly down.

[46:15] Christi: And my dirty bed, my pretty little head, my pretty little head, my pretty little feet.

[46:20] Andrew: My pretty little feet in front of the sunlight.

[46:28] Christi: Dancing like a yo-yo.

[46:31] Andrew: Yeah, I wanted to talk about this one, too.

[46:33] Christi: Yeah, it's I think it's interesting, mostly for again, this is, you know, Henson and everyone playing with the toys.

[46:43] Andrew: They have like these puppets against the screen screen and the puppets, the heads come off, the hands come off and they, you know, bounce around.

[46:50] Christi: And that's kind of the thing. But the song is the song is kind of and it really, you know, it's one of those things where it's just like, OK, we're stopping the plot and we're doing the song and then the plot.

[47:01] Andrew: And then we're the songs over the plot starts again.

[47:03] Christi: I think as like a modern viewer, I would just cut the scene entirely because the song is not great.

[47:09] Andrew: The effects are not impressive.

[47:12] Christi: In fact, I would say it's the part of the movie that looks the worst.

[47:16] Andrew: It's probably the one that has aged the though.

[47:19] Christi: It probably has not. It has aged the worst, I would say, certainly.

[47:23] Andrew: Yeah.

[47:23] Christi: And yeah, even in the even in the 80s, you'd be like, yeah, green screen.

[47:27] Andrew: Yeah, it's like it just doesn't it's so clearly green screen.

[47:31] Christi: It's like it kind of takes takes away from how impressive some of the puppeteering is, because all you have is like green screen.

[47:38] Andrew: Yeah, because again, you know, it's, you know, I'm assuming they've got like, you know, people in like, you know, the the suits or whatever.

[47:46] Christi: So, you know, doing like, you know, it's like, yeah, I mean, that's, you know, as far as puppetry goes, it's really good.

[47:53] Andrew: But it's yeah, the song is yeah.

[47:55] Christi: There was this one shot in particular where the head is like singing and you can see straight through it because it's so poorly.

[48:04] Andrew: And I wonder like I'm not about George Lucas saying things, but I wonder if we just could have the original mats.

[48:11] Christi: And I just had 10 minutes of Da Vinci resolve to fix it.

[48:15] Andrew: It's probably it's probably possible.

[48:17] Christi: You probably could like like I could just get rid of those lines and just add some depth of field, because that's the thing about me is everything's in focus because it's all a different plate.

[48:30] Andrew: Right.

[48:32] Christi: Then they just moved it in this.

[48:32] Andrew: Yeah, this song, I truly it's upsetting to look at.

[48:36] Christi: I feel like like even me right now, I'm looking at it.

[48:40] Andrew: It's like I hate everything I'm seeing.

[48:43] Christi: And I don't feel that way about even like Henson's more creepier stuff and like the Dark Crystal.

[48:50] Andrew: Yeah.

[48:50] Christi: Zero out of 10. Don't like it. Don't like.

[48:53] Andrew: I would just cut the scene. It's just not a it's like it's it doesn't need to be there at all.

[48:57] Christi: The only thing that would be confusing is that one of these characters shows up at the end in the in the dance party.

[49:03] Andrew: Well, then we go on to a song that you would also technically say you probably don't need, but I'm very glad is here.

[49:07] Christi: And that's as the world falls down.

[49:39] Andrew: Oh, OK. No, you do need that one because, again, you know, this part is like the whole, you know, testing and, you know, growth of Sarah, you know, kind of, you know, you know, again, starting to get into that little bit of sexual awakening because the party's going on and people are, you know, being, you know, not like grossly adult, but a little bit mature in a way.

[50:20] Christi: There's like a scene.

[50:21] Andrew: It's kind of hard to tell, but this guy's got like this little box and like a little, you know, kind of long necked bird puppet comes out.

[50:29] Christi: So, yeah, again, you know, very kind of subtextual, but very much there.

[50:36] Andrew: And yeah, the kind of the whole row, the whole kind of dream romance of it that she's kind of interested in and that, you know, fairy tale Cinderella thing.

[50:46] Christi: Very proto fan of the opera as far as very much.

[50:54] Andrew: So, yeah.

[50:54] Christi: And, you know, this phantom phantom was like 80.

[50:58] Andrew: Got phantoms 40 years old this year.

[51:00] Christi: Eighty six. This was like these were both 1986, actually.

[51:04] Andrew: Both 40 years old.

[51:05] Christi: So, yeah, about that same time.

[51:07] Andrew: There was something in the air in the 80s.

[51:09] Christi: I guess, you know, girls just wanted to, you know, get it on with like that with like sexy bad guys with a mask.

[51:12] Andrew: Yeah.

[51:16] Christi: Yeah. So, yeah, there is.

[51:18] Andrew: But yeah, again, you know, the aesthetic is absolutely fantastic there.

[51:24] Christi: Connelly's dress is iconic.

[51:27] Andrew: The whole thing, it's it looks beautiful.

[51:30] Christi: It's kind of alluring, but also kind of creepy in that way that really great villain seduction songs are.

[51:36] Andrew: So, yeah, this is this scene.

[51:39] Christi: And, you know, when we get.

[51:42] ♪ Musical number: "Within You" — performed by David Bowie ♪

[52:39] Christi: There's a scene where Jareth steps over and does a 180 onto the platform. They've got his stuntman rigged up onto this... I'm not even sure how to describe it. It's just this rig that holds him out and lifts him up over the edge of the platform. And you don't see any strings, you don't see any harnesses. Yeah, there's obviously some camera effects going on a little bit there. It looks really good. You've got the characters going around at all sorts of angles. You've got the baby Toby climbing up the stairs at impossible angles. It looks fantastic.

[53:23] Andrew: It does. It's so good. I almost want an IMAX re-release just for this scene. Just so I can see all the detail work because I know it's there.

[53:35] Christi: I am not a parent, nor do I think I will become a parent, but I have been spending a lot more time with my baby nephews lately. I don't know what it is, but maybe it's just a little more exposure to children that small. It is actually very distressing to see them like this now in a way that I have not had a previous affliction for myself. On one level, you know it's a movie. The parents were there. They're not doing anything stupid, but you see this little baby sitting on the edge of this geometrically impossible abyss. And it's like, oh God. Upside down. It reminds me of watching Baby's Day Out. And you're just like, not the soft spot!

[54:23] Andrew: You know that classic film, just as good as Labyrinth, Baby's Day Out.

[54:29] Christi: Baby's Day Out. And that's kind of the last song in the movie. There's not many, but they're big. There's also "Underground," which is kind of like the framing song. It's not really part of the song. It shows up at the credits. No love injection. Life can't be easy. It's not always swell. Don't tell me truth hurts, little girl. Cause it hurts like hell.

[55:05] Andrew: No, and it's good, but it's like, you know, nothing compared to everything else going on here. Were these all just written by David Bowie?

[55:15] Christi: This was all David Bowie. Trevor Jones, who also did Dark Crystal, did the score music. But yeah, the songs are Bowie. And they're all fucking bangers. David Bowie, unparalleled talent.

[55:27] Andrew: You know, I've not been a big David Bowie fan. Not that I have issues with it. It's just like his music was not really something I was exposed to much, aside from the song "Ziggy Stardust." That was the height of my David Bowie knowledge. But man, him as an actor in this and things like The Last Temptation of Christ. And honestly, he was one of the great vocalists of rock and roll. You know, him, Freddie Mercury. I would put Matt Bellamy of Muse on that list. You know, just those voices that were so distinctive and so perfect in what they did.

[56:05] Christi: Andrew, any thoughts about David Bowie?

[56:07] Andrew: Honestly, I don't know David Bowie that well. God, I'm supposed to be the one that doesn't know things. Well, I don't know. David Bowie's kind of a blind spot for me, I guess. I like a lot of stuff that's adjacent to David Bowie. But David Bowie himself, I've never really listened to that much. I'm just glad we haven't had a shitty movie about him.

[56:27] Christi: Oh God, please no.

[56:29] Andrew: It's gonna happen.

[56:31] Christi: It probably will, yes. Where it'll just be boring, Bohemian Rhapsody nonsense.

[56:35] Andrew: Oh God, yeah. Back in the 80s, when queer stuff was starting to become a little more mainstream, but certainly wasn't there yet by any means. And you had this guy who was defying gender expectations, and having this deliberately androgynous style. It was a key moment, I think.

[57:09] Christi: And I guess, do we have any comparative films to Labyrinth? It feels like kind of a singular thing.

[57:15] Andrew: There are other dark 80s films. I mean, I like Dark Crystal.

[57:21] Christi: Yeah, I mean, there is a movie from the 2010s, 2002, called Mirror Mask, which has a lot of similar aesthetic and themes to Labyrinth, and is partially inspired by it. In fact, in a very early scene, you can see somebody doing the contact juggling, which is the manipulating of the crystals with the hands that, well, not David Bowie, actually, it's a stuntman, basically sticking a hand under his arm and doing that. But yeah, it's basically a reference to Labyrinth.

[57:57] Andrew: Yeah, and that was also done by the Henson Company.

[58:01] Christi: Yeah.

[58:02] Andrew: And written by, oh no!

[58:04] Christi: Yes, another person who has certainly fallen out of favor in recent years, for obvious reasons.

[58:10] Andrew: Man, who is it?

[58:13] Christi: Neil Gaiman.

[58:14] Andrew: Oh, okay. Is everyone terrible?

[58:17] Christi: Yes.

[58:18] Andrew: Apparently, geez.

[58:20] Christi: Not even my Let's Play gamers are safe?

[58:24] Andrew: They've never been safe.

[58:29] Christi: Speaking of not being safe, what is our overall thoughts on Labyrinth and our cheese ratings? Andrew, why don't you start us off?

[58:38] Andrew: So, I enjoyed it. I think it's pretty good. I think I prefer, and I guess these aren't really actually that comparable, but I think I prefer Dark Crystal. It's just a different flavor.

[58:50] Christi: Yeah, a different kind of meat.

[58:51] Andrew: It's not really the same thing, but I guess if I'm thinking about these puppet fantasy movies, it's hard not to bring it in. Though I think I'm glad I finally saw it, and I think really outside of the chili down scene, I really enjoyed most of it. As far as the cheese to give it, what's a good cheese? Hmm. There's not really a good reference in the movie to use, I don't think.

[59:25] Christi: Yeah.

[59:26] Andrew: You know, actually, recently, in real life, I had a cheese that's like... It's like a cheese... I think it was a cheddar, but it had fruits in it. So, I'm going to say that, but with peach.

[59:40] Christi: Okay, yeah. Cheddar with peach.

[59:42] Andrew: Yeah, I think that would work.

[59:45] Christi: It would. How about you, Christy?

[59:48] Christi: Well, I think it's pretty obvious that I adore this movie, both for what it is, what it means to me personally, and what it is for itself. I think the thing that I love most about it is the very end, after Sarah's come home, and she's putting away all her things, she's ready to be an adult now, and she sees her friend saying goodbye to her in the mirror, and she says, I need you. Every now and then, for no reason at all, I need you. And I think that's just wonderful. It says you can grow up, but you can still dream. You can still have fun. You can still love, you know, enjoy this, you know, fun fantasy world that we've created. And I think that's just such a great message that, you know, kids especially do not get to hear, and I think even adults don't get to hear enough.

[1:00:40] Andrew: So, yeah.

[1:00:42] Christi: And I think my cheese rating is going to be cheese popcorn, because when I think of this movie, I think of being like a, you know, preteen, early teen kid, having a slumber party with all your friends, and just like a big bowl of popcorn, and a movie like this to watch on the TV.

[1:00:59] Andrew: Man, that's so good.

[1:01:01] Christi: I don't mean to ape off Andrews, but I'm giving this cherry habanero cheddar, because that just really is like, it's spicy, it's sweet. It's not something you'd like find on your own. It has to be kind of discovered. And, you know, you show it to someone else, and you're like, no, this is actually really good. And they're going to be like, okay, but what?

[1:01:21] Andrew: Christy, you're a joy of joys.

[1:01:23] Christi: Thank you.

[1:01:24] Andrew: Promoting your stuff for where people can find you, as if they don't already know.

[1:01:27] Christi: Yeah. So, yeah, I'm at Musical Hell on YouTube, Tumblr, Blue Sky. Real life is kind of happening a lot right now, so I am not sure when new stuff will be posted, but you can see a lot of my old stuff, and hopefully some new stuff eventually.

[1:01:46] Andrew: Well, you also are posting your new stuff fairly regularly.

[1:01:50] Christi: Yeah, I'm not doing, the Musical Hell series has kind of wrapped up, but I am still doing the short form stuff, which is Know the Score, which is just like little short stuff about music and films, and theater and stuff like that. And At the Source, which is kind of a little pet project of mine, where I go into the source material of all the different musicals, since so many of them are based on things. And then I just kind of do MST3K style riffs of terrible Mockbuster cartoons, or old pre-code public domain movies and stuff like that.

[1:02:25] Andrew: And you're so good at it. Riffing is so freaking hard. Andrew and I have tried it with commentators. It is so much easier to watch other people do it, and you're very funny.

[1:02:33] Christi: Thank you.

[1:02:34] Andrew: You are so funny and so good at it, so kudos to you.

[1:02:38] Christi: And I still enjoy all your content. I will be a patron until the day they pry Patreon out of my hands.

[1:02:44] Christi: Okay, thank you. I appreciate it.

[1:02:46] Andrew: Even with the stupid...

[1:02:48] Christi: Yeah, even with the stupid thing, I am still on Patreon, so...

[1:02:52] Andrew: God. Isn't that ridiculous, what they're doing?

[1:02:55] Christi: Oh, yeah, it is. It's... Oh, well, it'll be fine.

[1:03:00] Andrew: It'll be fine.

[1:03:01] Christi: They're just going to change everyone's rates, and now the people that were $1 are now $5, and the people that are $5 are now $10. I don't know.

[1:03:08] Andrew: Jeez.

[1:03:09] Christi: Literally, I emailed them, and they're like, well, they used all my stupid cheese language, too. The Lindburgers are now going to be this number. I'm like, oh. Ugh. Thanks, lady.

[1:03:20] Andrew: Thanks, Patreon lady.

[1:03:21] Christi: Yeah.

[1:03:23] Andrew: Christy, it is always a joy to have you on.

[1:03:25] Christi: Thank you for joining us.

[1:03:26] Andrew: Always a joy to be here. And until next time, this has been Musicals with Cheese.

[1:03:30] Christi: Buh-bye.

[1:03:47] Jesse McAnally: The Musicals with Cheese podcast is hosted by Jesse McAnally and Andrew DeWolf. Our executive producer is Jesse McAnally, and our creative producer is Elizabeth Esten. This show is mixed and edited by Jesse McAnally. Our theme song was composed by Andrew DeWolf, and the artwork was designed by JRL Studios. Our keeper of the cheese is the one and only Juliet Antonio. If you have the funds available, we would love to have you over at Patreon where you can get tons of fun perks, including full bonus episodes. Also, if you don't mind, could you leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or a comment on Spotify? Just a few extra words to let us know how we're doing. And if you have any corrections, ideas, or just want to say hello, send us an email at musicaltheaterlives@gmail.com. To listen to our entire backlog of episodes, please visit bpn.fm/cheese. Thank you so much for listening, and we'll see you next week.