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[0:00] Jesse McAnally: Hello, I'm Jesse McAnally. And I'm Andrew DeWolf. And welcome to Musicals with Cheese, a podcast where I try to get Andrew to like musical theater. Andrew, how are you doing today?

[0:15] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, we are doing horrible.

[0:22] Jesse McAnally: What?

[0:23] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I'm fucking listening to musicals again.

[0:26] Jesse McAnally: You know that I am invincible theme plays.

[0:52] Jesse McAnally: The Guy Who Didn't Like Musicals is a musical written by Matt Lang and Nick Lang with music and lyrics by Jeff Blim, loosely inspired by the 1956 sci-fi horror film The Invasion of the Body Snatchers. The show first ran from October 11 to November 4, 2018, at the Matrix Theater in Los Angeles. Our good friend Elizabeth Esten was there during that run. In April 2025, StarKid announced a restaging called The Guy Who Didn't Like Musicals Reprised. This remounted production ran in Los Angeles in 2025 and is transferring to London's West End for a limited engagement at the Apollo Theater from May 14 to 30. It just happened. People said it was great. It did really, really well. The show was put up on YouTube on July 4, 2026, which means in the revival of this musical theater show, we are covering the revival of this musical theater piece.

The YouTube recording, released on December 24, 2018, has amassed over 9.6 million views as of February 2026. It has become a cult classic and is credited with launching the Hatchetfield universe. The new variation has mixed to negative reactions due to StarKid fans being very normal. The plot of the musical is, it follows Paul Matthews, an average, unremarkable guy who really doesn't like musicals. Everything changes when a meteor crashes into a local theater, releasing an alien hive mind that slowly turns the citizens of Hatchetfield into singing and dancing musical zombies.

[2:30] Jesse McAnally: Now, Andrew, six years ago, we covered The Guy Who Didn't Like Musicals, and your reaction was it was fine.

[2:40] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I think that's a fair reaction to have to this as well.

[2:46] Jesse McAnally: Now, I really like the show. It wasn't like my favorite StarKid thing ever, but I was like, hey, that was pretty good. But it became a sensation. It became one of their most popular things that they had ever done. 9.6 million views is nothing. I think that's like, to their Harry Potter levels, which is pretty sizable and has become like restaged all over. It is performed everywhere. Locally, I think I've seen like four different productions pop up just in my neighborhood, and it's a really well-liked and well-respected production. And by all means, that first production was kind of thrown together a bit. They were just trying to get it on stage. The venue was obviously too small, and it was not as good as they had hoped it would be.

So coming back to this and getting to polish up some things and get to it was really the point of it. How did you feel about it re-watching? And do you remember anything about the original The Guy Who Didn't Like Musicals that we watched six years ago?

[3:54] Andrew DeWolf: I had a vague memory of it being about the guy who doesn't like musicals, he gets forced into one in some way, and there's like some sci-fi nonsense. That's what I remembered. I don't think I remembered any of the songs or anything, honestly. Although thinking on it now, I don't think the songs are particularly memorable. I don't think the songs are what really makes this show.

[4:14] Jesse McAnally: I disagree about like three or four. I think there are three or four really good songs in here. And we should say, in the cheese wheel days, the titular Guy Who Didn't Like Musicals was a guest on one of our most popular episodes, the Music Man episode, John Madison.

[4:34] Andrew DeWolf: Music Man is always working miracles.

[4:38] Jesse McAnally: Did you even recognize him?

[4:40] Andrew DeWolf: Oh no, absolutely.

[4:41] Jesse McAnally: Of course you didn't.

[4:43] Andrew DeWolf: I don't recognize anybody. I'm not good with anything.

[4:46] Andrew DeWolf: Um, as far as like improved performers, not that he was bad in the first production, I just think like, oh my god, he really stepped up to make this a character. And as far as everyone else goes, I really appreciated that they lent into the horror and not the comedy. You may remember our Cinderella's Castle episode, where it was a fairly negative reception from me, where I'm just like, can we get out of the poop and fart jokes, please? You have potential to do so much more, and I think your audience will follow you. And with this, I can see that they limited that a bit, and their audience is not following them. So I guess I was wrong.

[5:30] Jesse McAnally: I just, I can't recall, was there a shit ton of shit and poop jokes in the OG?

[5:37] Andrew DeWolf: There was the same amount as here. Like, they definitely said the F word and all that other stuff, and they would say shit and like, all that. But it was like, much more comedy.

[5:46] Jesse McAnally: All the swearing stuff is still, yeah, all the swearing stuff is still there. Well, maybe not all of it, but a lot of it is still there.

[5:53] Andrew DeWolf: I guess what I mean is, the tone management is much better here, where I feel like the stakes are real, like the horror and threat, while heightened, is played for a real threat, and not just like, let's get as many goofs and jokes out. I think that this one might end up being more memorable for me, and I'm not sure exactly why.

[6:20] Andrew DeWolf: I do feel like the characters are just better characterized in this one, because I don't think I even remembered anybody outside of the guy who didn't like musicals from the original. But this one, you have the guy who wants to impress the daughter. You have the love triangle there. That's interesting. And then the barista, obviously, who also doesn't like musicals.

[6:49] Jesse McAnally: Yes.

[6:49] Andrew DeWolf: And then you also have the general fear that they all have. Especially the father-daughter thing was mostly a joke in previous ones, but here, it's played much more sincerely. And I think that's the key word, is sincerity.

[7:08] Jesse McAnally: I think Starkid struggles with sincerity, obviously. I think you've been hinting at that. But yeah, Cinderella's Castle was particularly bad. But I feel like, going back, they used to thrive on being insincere when they were doing stuff like parodies, like Harry Potter or Twisted, even. Although Twisted, I feel like, even comes across more sincere than some of their later stuff.

[7:36] Andrew DeWolf: It's so wick wild to me that Twisted, the writer of Twisted, so they got a writer called, oh gosh, basically another author that they've yet to invite back, Kaylee McMahon. She did the lyrics and was very big on the sincere parts and the songs, and she has not done a single Starkid musical since. And I'm like, oh.

[8:02] Jesse McAnally: Goddamn.

[8:03] Andrew DeWolf: I feel like she really should've.

[8:07] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, no, that would've made a lot of sense, because that was—I guess it wasn't as popular as their Harry Potter stuff, but it was a lot better than their Harry Potter stuff.

[8:17] Andrew DeWolf: I still think that's a white whale that they've yet to hit again.

[8:22] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, I think I agree. Although I will say, I think this one, I might put it closer to actually hitting that mark. I think that this revival is better than Twisted, because I think they got the pacing down a lot better. I think they've got the quality of cameras and microphones. I think Twisted is also just too flippin' long. Twisted is ridiculously long for a parody musical.

[8:48] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, no, for sure. There's definitely a lot of stuff that could've been cut there.

[8:54] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, no, they did a good job on this one. I guess we've been beating around it a little bit. You just keep hinting at it, and obviously you want to talk about it.

[9:04] Andrew DeWolf: This was not my plan.

[9:07] Jesse McAnally: What is going on? Why do the people not like this?

[9:10] Andrew DeWolf: You know the meme where it's just like, oh my god, I'm so worried about my art, it's not as good a cake as the last cake? And then you cut to a guy that says, oh boy, two cakes. StarKid's fans are the opposite of the oh boy, two cakes. It's like, why did you ruin my cake with this new cake?

[9:30] Jesse McAnally: Okay. So, okay. On one hand, I see what you're saying. On the other hand, I could see them, if they're not, like, Broadway people.

[9:40] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[9:41] Jesse McAnally: Usually in, like, Hollywood, when something gets remade, it's very common to bitch and moan about it, ruining the franchise. I can't believe they ruin Star Wars by making a new Star Wars movie that I don't like. Luke Skywalker is evil and old, and what happened to my favorite guy?

[10:03] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. But at the same time, you know, like, this isn't that. And obviously in Broadway, it works very differently. Like, people have, they fight over which version of something is the best, and it's not really supposed to be, like, a replacement, you know? Like, I don't know.

[10:24] Jesse McAnally: But StarKid is different, though, because StarKid puts it on YouTube.

[10:28] Andrew DeWolf: For free!

[10:29] Jesse McAnally: It is a video. It's a video.

[10:33] Andrew DeWolf: So, I mean, lending to the credence of, is this just a Xbox 360 reskin to the Xbox One? Of just, like, we updated the graphics. Like, I can see, like, a mindset of that. Because you have every single actor, except one, being played by the same actor as the previous one.

[10:53] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[10:54] Andrew DeWolf: Should we go into the sex pest of it all?

[10:59] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, sure. I don't know anything about this. What the fuck happened? Who got replaced?

[11:04] Andrew DeWolf: So, the one that played Hidgens, the Professor character.

[11:08] Jesse McAnally: Okay.

[11:08] Andrew DeWolf: He was played in the original production by a man called Robert Mannion. I don't really want to go into it, but trigger warning for, you know, unwanted sexual behavior. He was a big popular person, and that character specifically played was really popular. Like, that was, like, the main thing people latched onto. Look at how cute he is. Look at how funny this character is. Showstopping Number was the song of this musical, and was, like, the iconic thing. And he did a few more musicals with them, and was a big part of, like, their ongoing thing. Because this is all part of a shared universe, like, with these... I don't know. I don't watch that bullshit. I just watch the musicals. I don't watch their live streams where they're all on Zoom.

Sorry. But I know there are some people that do and pay attention to this connected universe. Not me. But then he started sending unsolicited nudes to some of the band members on the musicals they were doing. And then instead of, you know, going to his bosses and saying this, he writes a half-hearted apology, tagging the person who accused him after asking, please don't name me. And then Starkid had to hire an HR team to investigate this, and he is no longer attached to anything. All his roles were recast. But they have their most popular musical ever, where the most, quote-unquote, iconic character and song is essentially played by a sex pest.

[12:42] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, that's a tough spot to be in. That's like when Disney put all of their money on that one guy playing the new Thanos, and it turned out that that wasn't going to happen.

[12:55] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. A real rough situation. So, you know, they're getting to put on the show again in LA. They got the entire cast in. Former cast member Lauren Lopez is directing this production, and so they're like, well, let's get our new guy, Will Branner, who was in Nerdy Prudes Must Die, and he can slip into that role. And it's become a meme that everyone in Starkid has played that role at a different point. So it's like, yeah, whatever. And he plays it pretty well. I think he plays it much closer to a proper scientist and goofy, wacky, kooky guy.

[13:32] Jesse McAnally: I liked him. I liked him. I thought that he—it felt like he was trying to do something with, god, I don't even know what the character is, but the guy from fucking Rocky Horror.

[13:43] Andrew DeWolf: Like the—

[13:43] Jesse McAnally: Oh, Tim Curry.

[13:44] Andrew DeWolf: Guy on the TV. Yeah, the guy on the TV. You know what I'm talking about?

[13:47] Jesse McAnally: No, who's the guy?

[13:48] Andrew DeWolf: That's who I was thinking of.

[13:49] Jesse McAnally: Meatloaf?

[13:51] Andrew DeWolf: No, the narrator.

[13:53] Jesse McAnally: Yes, yes. I thought he was doing something with that. I don't know.

[13:58] Andrew DeWolf: I think he's great, but the Starkid fans are still like, ooh, not as good as my cute boy sex pest version. Like, why didn't he just do the jokes the same way that they did? It is literally just an overwhelming, I don't like this guy in this role.

[14:17] Jesse McAnally: Well, why don't you fucking do it then? That's kind of my thing. It's like, rockin' a hard place. And to be the only new guy and everyone's...

[14:26] Jesse McAnally: Welcome back to Musicals with Cheese! Today, we're diving into the world of Hatchetfield and talking about StarKid's new revival of "The Guy Who Didn't Like Musicals."

[14:56] Andrew DeWolf: It's interesting to see how theater can adapt and change over the years, especially with a show like this.

[15:24] Jesse McAnally: Absolutely! And you know, Starkid fans can get really passionate about the changes, sometimes to the point where they feel like it's not identical to the version they watched a million times.

[15:44] Andrew DeWolf: Right! It's like, how much can a show evolve before it loses its essence?

[16:04] Jesse McAnally: Exactly! And that's what we're going to explore today.

[16:34] Andrew DeWolf: I think it's fascinating how different interpretations can bring new life to a story.

[16:54] Jesse McAnally: For sure! And it’s not just about the script; it’s about the performances and the direction too.

[17:22] Andrew DeWolf: And the audience's expectations play a huge role in that as well.

[17:42] Jesse McAnally: Definitely! Fans have such strong connections to the original material, and any deviation can feel jarring.

[18:02] Andrew DeWolf: It’s like they have this mental checklist of what they expect to see.

[18:32] Jesse McAnally: Yes! And when something doesn’t match up, it can lead to some intense reactions.

[18:52] Andrew DeWolf: I can understand that, but at the same time, isn’t it exciting to see how a show can grow?

[19:12] Jesse McAnally: Absolutely! It’s all about finding that balance between honoring the original and allowing for creative growth.

[19:40] Andrew DeWolf: So, what are some specific changes that have been made in this revival?

[20:02] Jesse McAnally: Well, I think we should start by discussing the new musical numbers that have been added.

[20:22] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, I’m all for that! New songs can really change the dynamic of a show.

[20:42] Jesse McAnally: Exactly! And they can also highlight different themes or character arcs that may not have been as prominent before.

[21:02] Andrew DeWolf: That’s a great point. It’s like giving the audience a fresh perspective on familiar characters.

[21:22] Jesse McAnally: Yes! And sometimes, it can even deepen the emotional impact of the story.

[21:42] Andrew DeWolf: I’m curious to see how the fans have reacted to these changes.

[22:02] Jesse McAnally: Well, there’s definitely been a mix of excitement and skepticism.

[22:32] Andrew DeWolf: That sounds about right! Change can be hard for some people to accept.

[22:52] Jesse McAnally: For sure! But it’s also a chance for new fans to discover the show in a different light.

[23:12] Andrew DeWolf: And that’s what keeps the theater community alive and thriving!

[23:32] Jesse McAnally: Exactly! So, let’s dive into some of the specific changes and how they’ve been received.

[23:52] Andrew DeWolf: I’m ready! Let’s explore what makes this revival stand out.

[24:22] Jesse McAnally: Great! First up, let’s talk about the new character dynamics introduced in this version.

[24:42] Andrew DeWolf: I’m intrigued! How do they differ from the original?

[24:52] Jesse McAnally: Well, there’s a fresh take on the relationships that adds depth to the story.

[25:02] Andrew DeWolf: That sounds promising! I love when shows take risks with character development.

[25:22] Jesse McAnally: Yes! And it can lead to some really powerful moments on stage.

[25:42] Andrew DeWolf: I can’t wait to hear more about those moments!

[26:10] Jesse McAnally: Let’s also discuss the staging and how it has evolved in this revival.

[26:16] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, staging can make such a huge difference in how a story is told.

[26:36] Jesse McAnally: Absolutely! The visual elements can enhance the emotional resonance of the narrative.

[26:56] Andrew DeWolf: I’m excited to see how they’ve reimagined the set design.

[27:26] Jesse McAnally: It’s definitely a key aspect of this revival that fans are buzzing about.

[27:56] Andrew DeWolf: I love that! It sounds like there’s a lot to unpack in this new version.

[28:16] Jesse McAnally: There really is! Let’s keep the conversation going and explore more about the music and performances.

[28:36] Andrew DeWolf: I’m all in! Let’s dive deeper into the heart of this revival.

[28:52] Jesse McAnally: I feel like I read that already. Maybe I didn't. Monica Thoreau, Ewan Cassidy, and Leighton A. I was working for a sec that Brent Black was gone, but he's actually at the end now. No, no, no. We got to get the newbies up front. They got to make them feel good. He told us to give us a little extra financial support that helps us keep the lights on here at Musicals with Cheese. If you'd like to join them in supporting us and get those perks that Andrew said and a backlog of other things, come join us over on Patreon. All right, let's get back to the show. It's Broadway's Tony Award winning best musical. Heads up, it's Hairspray. It's your chance to be a star.

[29:51] Andrew DeWolf: She's a big girl with big dreams and even bigger hair. You're not too late, dear, just too much. Can she get the guy and change the world? Find out at Hairspray. This is the moment. Constantine LaRoulis and Deborah Cox in Jekyll and Hyde. No musical has ever held you like this. Visit Ticketmaster.com.

[30:22] Jesse McAnally: It's time for Andrew's favorite part of the show, where I pull real life letterbox reviews and Andrew has to guess whether they're one-star or five-star based on nothing but the review alone. It's time for Previews. It's time for Previews. It's time for Previews.

[30:49] Jesse McAnally: All right, Andrew, you ready?

[30:53] Andrew DeWolf: I'm ready. There's no real competition anymore, though. It's the spirit of the competition's gone. It's more just trivia now.

[30:57] Jesse McAnally: Yeah. You ready?

[30:59] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I'm ready. I think I can hit these.

[31:01] Jesse McAnally: All in caps. Standing Ovation. Standing Ovation. That is all in caps. I feel like that has got to be a trick. I'm going to go with one.

[31:12] Andrew DeWolf: That is correct. All right, next one. Maybe this guy just doesn't like musicals.

[31:18] Jesse McAnally: See, okay, this is tricky because obviously that could be in reference to the show, but it could also be in reference to the person writing the review, as in clearly this guy doesn't like musicals. So I'm going to actually hit with a one here.

[31:39] Andrew DeWolf: That is correct. All right, next. I'm gonna throw up. Gonna throw is one word. Gonna throw up. Okay, that's in reference to the line delivery, which is clearly better in the original production. That's a five, though. That's a five.

[31:47] Jesse McAnally: That is correct. Next. Yep. Mamma Mia, period, period.

[32:06] Andrew DeWolf: Mamma Mia is referenced in the show. They go to see Hamilton and Mamma Mia, right? Those are the two musicals that are directly referenced. That's a five.

[32:11] Jesse McAnally: That is correct. That was some deliberation, but I came to the right conclusion. All right, last one. Okay. Can I get a perfect game? Can we get it? I think you can do it. Okay. Señorita Awesome Visits Me. Oh, Jesus, what is this in reference to? I cannot remember. Fuck. Señorita Awesome Visits Me. That's such a bizarre thing to say as well. Oh, shit. Okay, okay. My gut says one.

[32:53] Andrew DeWolf: That is a perfect game, Andrew DeWolf. You did it. Fuck. I got it. That last one, that really almost got me.

[32:58] Jesse McAnally: That one was a tough one. Is that a reference? I don't know.

[33:02] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know. Señorita Awesome Visits Me. What is that? Like fucking Channel Awesome? Like, what are we talking about here? Do you know how hard it was not to bring up Doug Walker during your talk about, like, fan bases? No comment. I don't want to start this.

[33:20] Jesse McAnally: All right, let's go into some of these songs. The title song, The Guy Who Didn't Like Musicals. I think this is, like, one of the most improved numbers. I can't remember the original. I was not that impressed with the new one either, though.

[34:02] Andrew DeWolf: I felt like it was a little bit too, like... I felt like it was like a pastiche on musicals. It was like a musical song that is doing a musical thing. And I don't know if that's the joke, but...

[34:15] Jesse McAnally: I liked it because I could hear what they're saying. In the original production, it was just mixed so poorly that it just becomes a wall of noise. And I think that's a consistent opinion for this entire run, where it's like, it is mixed significantly better and I can hear all the lines.

[34:27] Andrew DeWolf: For all we know, the original production is way better. You just can't fucking hear the damn thing. But that's a lot of Starkid productions. Like, have you rewatched Twisted at any time? You can't hear half of what's being fucking said.

[34:45] Jesse McAnally: No, it's true. It's true. And also, Jeff Blim, who also writes the lyrics and sings a majority of this song, he loved to hop into his very high falsetto. And he changed the key for this production quite a bit, so he's not singing that high falsetto for every single song. And it just kind of flows a lot better. And the jokes land better because you can hear it. And you can hear the actual harmonies instead of just like, you know,

[35:16] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. I do think, though, the whole, like, it just feels like they're doing, like, a bit. And maybe that is what they're doing, but I just don't know if it works.

[35:24] Jesse McAnally: Fair enough. I do want to talk about what do you want, Paul? With the boss character? What's that one concrete goal that motivates all of you, Rack?

[35:40] Andrew DeWolf: I don't think I have one of those.

[35:41] Jesse McAnally: Then how's anyone supposed to sympathize with you, Paul?

[35:44] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know. I want what anybody wants. Money, a house, kids, maybe.

[35:49] Jesse McAnally: I want you to want Paul. A man so vague, just can't be trusted. Something you pine for, Mr. Davidson. Maybe someone who keeps you lusted.

[36:02] Andrew DeWolf: That's too much. I'm just the boss. I'm not an idea guy. I hire you Pauls to keep our stock high. But if you can't pin that point...

[36:11] Jesse McAnally: I like this one. I think this one's fun. I think it is, like, a proper, like, parody of musical theater structure, of the I Want song and all that.

[36:22] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I almost, like, I was expecting them to almost do more of that, but this is kind of the only one. But it's funny, because, like, yeah, here, that is where you would put that.

[36:33] Jesse McAnally: I almost feel like the guy who didn't like musicals song is, like, separate from the rest.

[36:38] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[36:39] Jesse McAnally: Because I feel like the La-di-da-da-day song that comes before, that's, like, setting up the world song. And then this would be the part where the main character tells everyone what he wants. So, like, so they're, like, they're trying to get him to do it, but he doesn't want to.

[36:56] Andrew DeWolf: So funny you bring that up. I was reading through fan theories while I was cruising through Reddit, and the opinion is the apotheosis cannot take over you unless it knows what you want to make it your passionate I Want song, which everyone else gets. Like, Tied Up My Heart and Join Us and Die, like, as them being like, here's what I want. Not Your Seed is also kind of that way. And Showstopping Number is, like, the most, the most that, like, I want to be in a musical. I want to be taken over. And then Let It Out is him being like, I want Emma to survive.

[37:35] Jesse McAnally: Gotcha. My interpretation was just that it can take you over if they violently kill you. And I like the fact that it is a lot more, like, telegraphing of, like, people are taken over when they got blue shit on their face.

[37:57] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[37:59] Jesse McAnally: Because in the original, there was nothing like that. And people were like, well, it ruins the surprise. I'm like, I don't give a shit. It doesn't, like, the only part that it would, you could say would ruin is the part where they do the joke on the thing where it's, like, the professor's like, oh, we're gonna, we're gonna do a test to see if you guys can, whatever. But that's just, like, a one-off gag anyways.

[38:19] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, yeah, that's just goofy stuff. I think this is funny because they added a lot of choreography. And in the original production, Jeff Lim was really just kind of doing a heightened goofy version of himself, which was a Jim Carrey impression, the same thing he was doing as Aladdin. And here he's done the work to, like, differentiate each character and give them else all nuances and specificity to them.

[38:47] Jesse McAnally: I mean, the boss is clearly just the boss from Office Space, though.

[38:51] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, but it wasn't so much in the previous version. I'm like, hey, that's a thing. That's a thing you're doing. That's fine.

[38:56] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, it's at least, like, we're doing a bit. Like, we're doing this character. Like, haha. Then we got to talk about, like, there's a lot of comedy numbers, but I really think that it really comes together in the end of Act 1 with Join Us and Die. Like, when all is lost. We lost our good friend, Jenny Flynn, baby. And she's now taken over. You're going to have to figure out what's going on in Act 2, and I like that it takes it seriously. And yeah, there's, like, dark comedy where she's, like, playing with her blue guts and all that, but it's, like, still very much like, we are a threat and you should be afraid.

[39:58] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, no, I think it does the horror elements decently. Yeah, I'm trying to think of what to say there. I don't know. I feel like Starkid has done this. I mean, this is the first one, but they've done this style of, like, dark, like, horror comedy a couple times, obviously. And I think they do it decently well. But they always undercut it.

[40:21] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, I was going to say, I think this is the best one they've done. It's, I think horror comedy in itself is always an undercut. Like, the genre is, you do horror, but it's funny. Uh, have you watched Widow's Bay yet?

[40:38] Andrew DeWolf: I have not.

[40:39] Jesse McAnally: That shit, the horror and the comedy equal measures and works equally effective. I have not laughed that hard at anything in years.

[40:49] Andrew DeWolf: I do think the best horror comedies are ones where the horror is taken seriously, but it's still funny. Um, you like shit like Ginger Dead Man or whatever the fuck is like, that shit sucks.

[41:04] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, like the horror is the joke. And it's like, well, that's not that doesn't work.

[41:11] Andrew DeWolf: Like the only time the horror being the killer is funny kind of works is Freddy Krueger.

[41:26] Jesse McAnally: Well, yeah, but that's because he's not actually funny. He's like psychotic. He's sick. You know, like he, you might laugh at what he says, but what he's saying is like edgy and like disgusting, you know, like he's not a comedian though.

[41:43] Andrew DeWolf: Oh no, he's a child molester.

[41:45] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, it's like, yeah. Although sometimes that's the same thing, but.

[41:53] Andrew DeWolf: Let's talk about Not Your Scene.

[41:56] Jesse McAnally: No more family vacate together, cause you're only daughters under the weather. And if you actually paid attention to me, you'd see I'm not your scene.

[42:13] Andrew DeWolf: I'm not your angsty teen, no matter what you believe. I think it was well agreed that this was kind of the worst song in the original production. But I think that was the fan base because we had a newbie with Mariah Roseface Casillas, who was like, I want to say like 25 when she joined Starkid at the time, brand new face, like, and then she would kind of go on to be like a real professional theater star. She was in the touring production of Mean Girls and like did not love the real theater world and then came back to Starkid and is now like well respected and kind of gets the vibe a lot better. And she is now coming back to this role that she played when she was very young and kicking ass and making songs that were just kind of OK, really, really great showstoppers in their own way. I think as far as I won't say improved because she was still good, just like more confidence and more understanding of tone. She's really great.

[43:19] Jesse McAnally: I felt like the, um, this whole plot line felt like it had a lot of, uh, not a lot, but like a decent amount of weight as well. Um, so I, I feel like that it just, it just kind of works better. And not undercut, not undercut. I love that. And like, like he ends up, the father ends up dead. She ends up dead. Everything is, everything is bad. And it was all kind of for not, but while everyone ends up dead. So yeah, while Paul and Bill were out doing that subplot, we get the most iconic song in this entire show. Show stopping number.

[43:57] Andrew DeWolf: Life's on Mr. Ingenue. So fill up your tumbler. Got a show stopping number for you.

[44:10] Jesse McAnally: Please, Professor. If they hear us, they will kill us.

[44:15] Andrew DeWolf: A show stopping number is something you die for. A real catchy air warm it to. An award winning score.

[44:29] Jesse McAnally: It's a funny song, but I would say if there's any moment that undercuts the whole show, it's this, because it's literally just, he just does a song about a different show that he's been working on basically.

[44:40] Andrew DeWolf: Yes. But it's so fucking entertaining to watch. This is like where the humor works because it's funny enough to justify the existence. I think that the professor character though, I think that this song is hilarious, but the professor character is too goofy for the show now.

[45:03] Jesse McAnally: Yes. And that's kind of what other people are saying too. He feels like he doesn't even make sense as a character. Like every other character, like makes sense. Whereas he just feels like he has a mental illness in, in like a, his character traits, just something doesn't line up, you know?

[45:24] Andrew DeWolf: Right. But also that is a common trait, a trope for horror is the kind of crazy doctor character.

[45:34] Jesse McAnally: Yes. Yes. So I just think of the guy that lives in the woods in Birdemic. Yeah, it's funny and it's fine. Like the professor is, he can be kind of a goofy character anyways. Like it's really not that important. So it's, it's a funny, it's a funny time. And it's a transition song of like showing someone get taken over in real time and become part of the musical apotheosis. Maybe I've always been, become what I've hated. Or maybe I never did. It's awful freeing now to share the hate I felt. But what will I let in if I let it out?

[46:20] Andrew DeWolf: Let it out. Let it out. Am I crazy? I don't think so. Let it out. Let it out. Let it out. Maybe I've always been. Let it out. Let it out. Let it out. God help me now. Let it out. Let it out. If I let it out.

[46:41] Jesse McAnally: The final song to talk about is Let It Out, really. I mean, Let It Out and Inevitable, both of them are like Paul numbers. I really think that this is good and effective. And people are complaining like, why is he a part of the choreography when he hasn't been taken over? And I'm like, no, his actions have become the choreography of him trying to get out of this. And it's clever. A lot of this part is actually clever.

[47:07] Andrew DeWolf: And John Madison is really fucking good in this scene.

[47:12] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, I think he does a great job through the entire fucking thing. And it's nice when he finally gets to have his moment at the end. Because it would be so easy to get forgotten next to these big musical theater performances.

[47:28] Andrew DeWolf: And he never does. He never does.

[47:31] Jesse McAnally: No. I think the way he's performing the character, he feels like he belongs in the show despite his character trait being that he doesn't belong in the show.

[47:42] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. You know? Like he stands out as the main character and doesn't get like drowned out by these other like wackier characters that have more clear like desires and things. And I did want to bring up a thing that I didn't like about the original mounting is I felt that the romance relationship between the leads, Emma and Paul, did not work for me at all in the original production. I did not feel that they were into each other. Here, I'm like, oh, I get it. They're good together. You know, it actually makes a lot of sense here because they're both want nothing to do with this kind of like goofy shenanigans like from the start.

[48:22] Jesse McAnally: Yes. You know, like they're both tired of it in a way. They're both cynics, but they also have deep sincerity and care for other humans.

[48:32] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. I like that they don't portray the guy who doesn't like musicals as like just like an asshole who's just like, I fucking I hate fun. You know, it could be Bert. He's just nerdy, you know?

[48:45] Jesse McAnally: Yeah. He's he's more just like he just doesn't like this one particular thing. And that's kind of that.

[48:56] Andrew DeWolf: I feel like it's almost like it's like a stand in for when you feel like everyone is like wrapped up in some frenzy and you're just like, you don't get it.

[49:07] Jesse McAnally: Yeah. It's like when a movie gets really popular and you're just kind of like, what? I saw it and it was just not that great.

[49:13] Andrew DeWolf: Can I be that guy? That's me with Dune.

[49:17] Jesse McAnally: Really?

[49:18] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I'm just like, I get I don't get it. It's not for me.

[49:23] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, I have not seen Dune, so I'm not.

[49:26] Andrew DeWolf: The trailers look nice. And every time I see the movie, I'm like, OK, that was fine. The music choices they make sound cool. I like that. But I have not seen the movies. They look boring.

[49:40] Jesse McAnally: Yeah. Let's talk about Inevitable for a brief moment, which is like the final number. Um, I love that it goes into the curtain call and she's just still screaming like for people to.

[49:52] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, that was great. I was almost expecting that there might be more. Like it was like they're doing the end of the show as part of the show, and then there might be something that happens after, but that they don't do that. I think it's a perfect ending. I love the way she screams when the spotlight comes up. I love that this just breaks the world and it is like the proper like invasion of the body snatchers ending. I'm just like it finally got to the one person remaining. No one survives.

[50:23] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, but also it's it's the way that they do it where it's like the curtain call. So it's like that's funny. It's funny. It's a very meta show in those of some ways, obviously.

[50:35] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I think this and Twisted are like the two like best things Starkid ever made. And I worry that they've hit their peak because...

[50:46] Jesse McAnally: I'm also not sure it's close.

[50:49] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, that's the problem. There are moments in the other shows where I'm like, oh, you are so close to great things here. And that's what I kind of want to bring back to this, which is like, maybe it's good for them to remount these shows every few years to kind of figure them out. I think that Starkid shows are kind of written a little too quickly, a little too churned out, like Broadway musicals are worked on for years and years.

[51:14] Jesse McAnally: You made that point that like they just have to kind of make it like they just kind of do it. They record it. They put it on YouTube. So like when you're watching a Starkid show, if you were to compare it to a Broadway show, it's like you're watching like one of the initial rehearsals of the off-Broadway version of the show.

[51:31] Andrew DeWolf: It's like they're out of town previews before they start taking it like to people. It's like, oh, but that's the final that's the final product.

[51:42] Jesse McAnally: Yes. And for an off-Broadway preview that didn't get worked out in the critics didn't give. It's pretty good, but I would love to see if they could just do the proper like time and, you know, hold off on recording it until like the third time around.

[52:02] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. I guess it goes against everything that they've built here.

[52:07] Jesse McAnally: I know. I would be interesting to see what if they tried doing the normal path and they tried making a real Broadway show, but I don't think we'll ever see that.

[52:19] Andrew DeWolf: I don't. And I hate it.

[52:21] Jesse McAnally: Sounds like I'm just like expecting them to fit into a hole that they're not made to be in.

[52:26] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I think what they're doing is fine. And obviously they have a fan base.

[52:30] Jesse McAnally: I don't. Okay, well, there's definitely some of their shows I did not like.

[52:34] Andrew DeWolf: You haven't even seen the one that I think is the worst one yet.

[52:38] Jesse McAnally: Is that the penis one?

[52:42] Andrew DeWolf: That maybe I misspoke. I was going to say, Annie, the Star Wars one.

[52:46] Jesse McAnally: Oh, God, we're going to have to watch that at some point, aren't we?

[52:50] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, one day.

[52:51] Jesse McAnally: One day. Bradican.

[52:52] Andrew DeWolf: Bradican.

[52:55] Jesse McAnally: It's not as bad as to Boldly Flee.

[52:57] Andrew DeWolf: I will say that.

[52:59] Jesse McAnally: I don't think there's many things that are.

[53:04] Andrew DeWolf: You'd have to somehow create something of equal shittiness and then also still have it be three and a half hours long.

[53:10] Jesse McAnally: And reference Star Wars that much.

[53:16] Andrew DeWolf: And be that full of itself and just everything, man.

[53:20] Jesse McAnally: And kill the nostalgia critic.

[53:22] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, kill. Kill the whole reason the movie gets made. Kill that off.

[53:30] Jesse McAnally: What is your overall thoughts on the guy that didn't like musicals reprised? And what is your cheese rating?

[53:35] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, man. Okay, yeah. I thought it was good. I guess I don't remember the original production well enough, and I will admit I did not rewatch it. I only watched the remount here.

[53:52] Jesse McAnally: I don't think it would help you much.

[53:55] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I just I think this is a solid piece. And I feel like of the Starkid stuff that I've seen recently, this is definitely the best. Um, so I don't know. Screw the haters. It's good. I think they did a good job. I will not make a definitive statement on whether or not this is better or the original, because I would have to see the original again. Although I know Jess definitely has his opinion on that. And I think he's made that pretty clear. And I might agree with him because my original thoughts on this, I feel like we're kind of middling.

[54:36] Jesse McAnally: Um, as far as a cheese rating, um, is there just no like cheese reference in this? There's a lot more coffee references, but coffee, do coffee and cheese really go together? I don't know. Let's see, we have any, uh, I guess, uh, they're saying Brie goes well with Columbia coffee. Uh, Gruyere goes well. That's okay. Well, um, I'm going to give it a, I'm going to give it Gruyere because I like Gruyere.

[55:15] Andrew DeWolf: That's fair enough. I am impressed by this production because I like the original musical and I really like this one. Um, I think that, I think the fan base is pissing me off. Um, you can't let the fan base ruin something.

[55:32] Jesse McAnally: I can't, I can't. That's a mistake.

[55:34] Andrew DeWolf: The thing is, it isn't ruining this for me. It's ruining the unmade shows that I'm worried they just won't do because of reception and all that.

[55:44] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, yeah. Um, and maybe that's just me projecting a bit.

[55:53] Andrew DeWolf: Um, but maybe I'm not, uh, let us know what you think.

[55:56] Jesse McAnally: Well, I mean, you're allowed to have your opinions, but really you're not.

[56:05] Andrew DeWolf: You know what? You're right. Fuck your opinions.

[56:09] Jesse McAnally: I'm giving it Provol cheese. It's a combination of cheddar Swiss and provolone and liquid smoke.

[56:15] Andrew DeWolf: Okay. That sounds good.

[56:17] Jesse McAnally: That sounds fucking delicious, actually.

[56:18] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I looked at that and I'm like, that looks interesting. Um, and this, while this is our second episode, this is the end of our first recording session at Batguest Musicals with Cheese. And to be honest, it really does feel like riding a bike. It feels just about the same as it always did. We really never actually stopped because we just talked about different stuff and it was kind of the same exact format. So yeah.

[56:43] Andrew DeWolf: Next week, we got some cool shit. So we'll see you next time on Musicals with Cheese.

[56:49] Jesse McAnally: Bye-bye.

[56:55] Jesse McAnally: The Musicals with Cheese podcast is hosted by Jesse McAnally and Andrew DeWolf. Our executive producer is Jesse McAnally and our creative producer is Elizabeth Esten. This show is mixed and edited by Jesse McAnally. Our theme song was composed by Andrew DeWolf and the artwork was designed by JRL Studios. Our keeper of the cheese is the one and only Juliet Antonio. If you have the funds available, we would love to have you over at Patreon, where you can get tons of fun perks, including full bonus episodes. Also, if you don't mind, could you leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or a comment on Spotify? Just a few extra words to let us know how we're doing. And if you have any corrections, ideas, or just want to say hello, send us an email at musicaltheaterlives at gmail.com. To listen to our entire backlog of episodes, please visit bpn.fm slash cheese. Thank you so much for listening and we'll see you next week.