This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Jesse McAnally: Hello, I'm Jesse McAnally, and I'm Andrew DeWolf.

[0:09] Andrew DeWolf: And welcome back to Musicals with Cheese, a podcast where I try to get Andrew to like musical theater. He's doing his best. We're back at it. You know, he's like, I feel like the love of music theater is gone and needs to be reinstalled. You know, the thing is, you're not wrong, but I'm curious, is it more toward you or more toward me? Maybe now it's like the opposite. I'm trying to convince you that you don't hate musicals anymore.

[0:34] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, that's such a bummer, because when we first did this, that was like my thing. I loved musicals. When's the last time I really brought a musical theater to you? You mentioned like news that happens here and there, like just something will go on on Broadway and you'll just be like, oh, did you see this? But I don't think you've recommended a show to me in ages. It's been some time and I don't know if it's just me getting older or whatnot, but you never know. And speaking of getting older, I think we're talking about something that aged maybe way too fast, aged like milk you left on the counter in a heat wave.

[1:18] Andrew DeWolf: I don't think that's as fair, but you're in the right category. See, Hamilton's one of the shows that you think is kind of mid until you're actively watching it and then you watch and you're like, oh, no, this is pretty good. Kind of undeniable, not imaginable. But we're talking about something else a little bit disconnected from Hamilton. We are talking about the Hamilton mixtape.

[2:11] Jesse McAnally: The Hamilton mixtape is, I don't even know how to describe it, is an album with music and lyrics by Lin-Manuel Miranda and a lot of other artists based on the musical Hamilton and which was based on the 2004 biography Alexander Hamilton by Ron Chernow. The mixtape album was released on December 2nd, 2016, a number one debut. The Hamilton mixtape debuted at number one on the Billboard Top 100, selling 187,000 album equivalent units in its first week, making it the first compilation album to hit number one in two years. It also might have upticked the amount of cassettes sold because they also sold on cassette. The album features covers, remixes, and cut songs from the Broadway musical Hamilton reimagined by various pop, rap, and R&B artists.

I guess the first question is Hamilton was our 100th episode of Musicals with Cheese. We tied it into its 4th of July 2020 release of that Hamilton film, and here we are six years post that and 10 years post the release of the Hamilton mixtape. What is the value of Hamilton in the year of our Lord 2026, if anything?

[3:45] Andrew DeWolf: It's a look into the past, you know, back when you could have pride in America as a liberal, you know? It's a bygone era. We're past that now. All liberals hate America now, so Hamilton could not exist today.

[4:02] Jesse McAnally: The fact of the matter is, you say that. I think what you're trying to say is Hamilton could not be the phenomena that it was in 2015-2016 today.

[4:16] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, of course. I think you could make it. Nobody would stop you. I just don't think it would get the traction that it had.

[4:23] Jesse McAnally: What I'm trying to say is it's still running. It still sells out. It is still very popular. It is still very much in the zeitgeist, but it kind of feels—

[4:34] Andrew DeWolf: Because it already was. It's because it already was popular. Everyone knows it. It's the Taurus musical, right?

[4:41] Jesse McAnally: I was about to say, this is the new Cats. It is now the musical, the musical.

[4:46] Andrew DeWolf: Everyone's favorite musical, the musical.

[4:49] Jesse McAnally: Exactly. Now, do you remember Hamilton Fever? I know you and I were talking. We weren't quite doing the podcast, but when it first debuted, what do you remember from that?

[5:01] Andrew DeWolf: I just remember seeing everyone wearing the shirt with the gold star and the guy pointing up and people talking about that. Honestly, I don't think I was in—I was not in the zone back then. I did not know. But I feel like it reached out of the zone. It was like pop culture, not just like—

[5:20] Jesse McAnally: Lin-Manuel Miranda hosted SNL and then was also going on as Hamilton.

[5:24] Andrew DeWolf: I didn't watch SNL either, though. I think that at that time, I probably would have just thought it was cringe. I won't lie to you. This was like, what, 2015, 14?

[5:37] Jesse McAnally: Yes, yes.

[5:38] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I was a dumb fucking little asshole. I probably just was like, ah, musical theater, that's fucking cringe.

[5:45] Jesse McAnally: How far you've come?

[5:47] Andrew DeWolf: I've embraced it. Now I've realized that it is cringe and I'm cringe, so that's okay.

[5:51] Jesse McAnally: And cringe is probably more interesting than being cool.

[5:55] Andrew DeWolf: Exactly. It's not that I was wrong back then. It's that I misinterpreted everything, you know? It's like, oh, that's cringe. Therefore, I shouldn't like it. And not, oh, that's cringe. I'm over there. Like, let's hit it.

[6:08] Jesse McAnally: Now you're just a man that loves his roller coasters.

[6:11] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[6:13] Jesse McAnally: So you did not watch Hamilton or didn't really see any of Hamilton until the 2016 Tony Award recording, which basically started Musicals with Cheese. And I showed you a bit of— a little bit of their Tony's performance, and you were not a fan.

[6:29] Andrew DeWolf: I wasn't impressed. And I think it's better—all of it is better in context. I feel like when I actually got to finally watch Hamilton, it was pretty good. But like, out of context, it's like weird. It's like rap songs about American history. It's so bizarre.

[6:47] Jesse McAnally: The first time I heard about Hamilton, like as a thing, was in my AP U.S. History class. I want to say it had to have been like 2010, 2011. And Lin-Manuel Miranda was performing for this poetry night that the Obamas were having. Because, you know, we used to appreciate arts in the White House, and now we just don't.

[7:11] Andrew DeWolf: Well, we still like art, you know, as long as it has Trump's name on it.

[7:14] Jesse McAnally: And WWE, is that art?

[7:16] Andrew DeWolf: Well, yeah, of course. Obviously, that's—

[7:20] Jesse McAnally: And Lin-Manuel Miranda just did this like rap, and he introduced it as the Hamilton Mixtape.

[7:27] Andrew DeWolf: Okay.

[7:27] Jesse McAnally: Because that was the original title of Hamilton. He was not writing it as a musical. He was writing it in the same way of like Andrew Lloyd Webber doing Jesus Christ Superstar and Evita with Tim Rice.

[7:38] Andrew DeWolf: A concept album.

[7:39] Jesse McAnally: Yes. And then he was like—

[7:42] Andrew DeWolf: One of my favorite things. I love concept albums.

[7:44] Jesse McAnally: And I don't know if you know his more recent work. He kind of took that and did that with his Warriors musical, which is an all-female interpretation of the 80s film The Warriors.

[7:55] Andrew DeWolf: Okay.

[7:56] Jesse McAnally: And that is coming to Broadway next season, but it started as a concept album.

[8:00] Andrew DeWolf: I've not seen Warriors, but I am interested.

[8:05] Andrew DeWolf: I'd want to watch the movie first before seeing the musical, I think.

[8:09] Jesse McAnally: Right. I think that's going to have like a Hadestown where the musical is going to be very different than the album.

[8:17] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I would bet.

[8:20] Jesse McAnally: But for years, it was known as the Hamilton Mixtape, which was just going to be playing on a theme of Hamilton's life told from the different points of view. Specifically, having different artist styles for each one.

[8:32] Andrew DeWolf: So, Aaron Burr would kind of have a more Usher feel, and some of the raps would have a more Busta Rhymes or Ja Rule, and some of them would have a more Beyonce or more Andra Day. And we all can kind of hear the Beatles influence on You'll Be Back. Different artists having different interpretations and who would I make these characters be. So, that is where the musical started, was how do I include all these hip-hop tributes and pastiches as a coherent story.

[9:00] Jesse McAnally: Now, Hamilton comes out, it is this massive, massive thing, like impossible to ignore even for someone like you who is a layman. It was in the public knowledge at the very least. So much that one year after it's put on, it is still very much in the public consciousness. And we're kind of...

[9:19] Andrew DeWolf: So, when Trump gets elected...

[9:22] Jesse McAnally: Oh, we're already there? Oh, boy.

[9:25] Andrew DeWolf: Trump has become a news story in and of himself. Anything that he does is news and all that jazz. You guys are still alive today if you're listening to this, so you know that.

[9:33] Jesse McAnally: Yeah. I mean, it's frustrating because even myself in that day, when Trump gets elected and he's doing all these wacky things, you can't avoid the news and you're so fascinated. Here, I just don't give a shit anymore. I don't give a fuck what he's up to. At this point, every news story, it's just like, how are the news pretending that he's not doing corruption today? It's become less of this is so wacky and more like, well, this is normal, right? Wow, this sucks.

[10:18] Andrew DeWolf: But as far as Hamilton goes, I think when we first started doing this, you were very keen to bring up the Mike Pence incident. Do you remember this?

[10:27] Jesse McAnally: Oh, that was funny as fuck, I think. He got booed in the hallway at the Broadway performance.

[10:34] Andrew DeWolf: Is that right?

[10:35] Jesse McAnally: That's not all. That's not all. He went to go see it on Broadway. He got booed when he got in there because, obviously, fuck that guy.

[10:45] ⚠ About 2 minutes of audio could not be automatically transcribed.

[12:59] Andrew DeWolf: Like, okay, so, like, after I first watched it in that, like, recorded version they put out, I remember thinking it was quite good. And I think if you go and listen to our episode, if I recall, I'm very, very positive. Yes. And I think if I had just watched it again, I would still be relatively positive. But God, everything has been ruined.

[13:23] Jess McAnally: So you don't agree with Michelle Obama, who says it is simply, as she tells everyone, the best piece of art in any form or medium that she's ever seen in her life.

[13:32] Andrew DeWolf: No. Oh, wow. That's that's what she said?

[13:35] Jess McAnally: Yes.

[13:35] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, wow. No, I don't think I would agree with that. I think it's well made. I think it's creative in that, I mean, prior to Hamilton, I'm sure people have tried a rap musical before Hamilton, but I don't think anyone succeeded. Not in the way that they did. I think that's very creative. I really feel like the subject matter is kind of just the weak point. It's just like it's the most rosy vision of the American founding you could really conjure up. I think it's just looking back at it now. It's like, man, it's way too optimistic about what this country is.

[14:14] Jess McAnally: And I think it did a lot of revisionist history. I mean, you, of course, know the famous trans Jefferson meme.

[14:22] Andrew DeWolf: Do I shit? Oh, wait. No, I do. I do. I do.

[14:24] Jess McAnally: In case you forgot, just let's have this little reminder there.

[14:28] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I ever. Yes, I. Yeah. These characters and actors are so charming that they kind of erase the atrocities that the real life human beings were. Jefferson in real life was like one of the biggest pieces of shit of the entire group. Yes, I didn't. He had like an entire book about like how black people are like subhuman need slavery or some shit like, oh, my God. And here we have trans Thomas Jefferson wearing I met God. She's black T-shirt. And that is just the fandom taking this material and finding their own way through it. But also not to be this guy, I think misunderstanding, like even the intent of it. Here's where we get to the Hamilton mixtape at long last. This album brings a lot of the pop artists and hip hop artists that Lin-Manuel Miranda was actively inspired by when writing these pieces to basically interpret them his own way.

I'm curious, does this work? Because in my opinion, the things that work or really work with this album, like I think there are artists here where it's like really, really effective. And then there's some where it's like, yeah, Lin-Manuel Miranda might have been inspired by you, but you are not living up to it at all. And then there's Jimmy Fallon, who is just inexplicably here. I assume he is here because it seems as though the roots play on quite a few of these.

[15:52] Jess McAnally: Yeah. And Lin-Manuel Miranda is just friends with him, too.

[15:57] Andrew DeWolf: He fucking would be Jesus Christ. Yeah, I'm sorry. I he has made good stuff, but I just have a very low opinion of Lin-Manuel Miranda.

[16:13] Jess McAnally: Really? Really? OK, why?

[16:21] Andrew DeWolf: I just I think he's like a hyper lib. Like he is like, oh, my God, I don't know. I've talked about this before, but like the Hamilton is so fucking like rosy about American history. And then you have the stuff with just fucking absolutely glamorizing the shit out of like small business owners in fucking in the Heights, in the Heights. Like, I don't fucking know. He's he and then he's the types of people he's friends with. Like, oh, my God, why are you friends with Jimmy Fallon? Jimmy Fallon is a piece of shit.

[16:49] Jess McAnally: Well, I mean, what did Jimmy Fallon do to you? Not that I disagree.

[16:57] Andrew DeWolf: Dude, I don't think I need to justify myself here. I feel like the audience remembers here. Jimmy Fallon, didn't he like have Donald Trump on and like play with his hair?

[17:08] Jess McAnally: Yes, he did.

[17:08] Andrew DeWolf: Jimmy Fallon, like he laughs at everything because he's just a grifter who believes in nothing. He's he's pimped out like crypto schemes and fucking Jesus Christ, I can't even remember the name of them because they're so fucking dead to the world. What was that thing? Didn't they have like the the ape, the monkeys?

[17:26] Jess McAnally: Yeah, the board ape yacht club. That's it. He pimped those out with fucking Paris Hilton or whatever the fuck or London Tipton, you know?

[17:39] Andrew DeWolf: I'm fucking like he's just he is such a nothing. He is he is he is the anti-human. He is no one to steal a joke from Rich Evans. The only thing he should host is a parasite. He wouldn't be able to. There's nothing in there. The parasite would bite in and the air would get released. But but but compared to James Corden, he's honestly Jimmy Fallon might be a worse person than James Corden, but James Corden is more and more annoying. I think James got a comment here recently had Conor McGregor on.

[18:10] Jess McAnally: That is also true. Conor McGregor is a piece of shit if you are not aware. Jesus Christ. He just hosts like garbage people and he just treats them like it's normal guests. You know, I just don't. OK, here's my thing. I think James Corden's a bad person. I think Jimmy Fallon's an idiot.

[18:34] Andrew DeWolf: That might be true. But I feel like when you're an idiot with power, you have to take responsibility.

[18:40] Jess McAnally: Yes, I don't disagree. But didn't he do a great cover of that one song?

[18:46] Andrew DeWolf: No, he fucking did it. He did it. Generally, what do you think of this album? I think it's very hit or miss. Like it's it's like there's some actual like bangers on here, like ones that I really think are extremely good covers or original songs that use sampling of I think. I think that's what they're doing on some of these. But then there's also just like stuff that was clearly cut from the show that just you're like, yeah, that I'm glad that was cut. I find them interesting as like someone like I like seeing how the sausage gets made a little bit, especially with musical theater with Sondheim. Like I wonder in this revival, they took all of his cut songs from other musicals and put them into its own musical called Marry Me a Little. And it's still like top tier songs that are good and fun to listen to. And Lin-Manuel Miranda just doesn't have that with his cut songs the way Sondheim or even Andrew Lloyd Webber does.

[19:42] Jess McAnally: Yeah, I'm not saying cut songs aren't interesting. I'm just saying in this particular case, it's like, yeah, no. The thing I'm more impressed or interested about is how bored a lot of these artists sound in this recording.

[19:54] Andrew DeWolf: Which ones are you referring to?

[20:01] Jess McAnally: I think Usher sounds horrendously bored. I think I think there's like people that are really trying and then people are like, oh, you just want me to do the thing like I think Ja Rule is not particularly impressive in Helpless either, even though Lin-Manuel Miranda said he was doing a Ja Rule impression while singing Helpless on stage. But people online really, really seem to like T.J. O'Connell said that they love Kelly Clarkson's It's Quiet Uptown.

[20:29] Andrew DeWolf: That was quite good. Yeah.

[20:31] Jess McAnally: Yes. Corianna Fraser said that also agreed that a lot of people sounded bored. But really, it's just a good excuse for Lin-Manuel's Miranda to be seen working with his dream collaborators. But most people, as far as people replying to what they think about controversial opinions, they're like, they've never listened to it again since its first release.

[20:53] Andrew DeWolf: I think there. So one issue I have with it is just that it's not Hamilton. Like, it's the Hamilton mixtape. But like, if you listen through it, it doesn't tell you a story, really. And you like those parts of.

[21:07] Jess McAnally: Yeah, I mean, it's not it's not a concept album. And I get that it's kind of I feel like a more fitting name for this is like the Hamilton remix or leftovers.

[21:21] Andrew DeWolf: The Hamilton reheated leftovers.

[21:24] Jess McAnally: Well, it's like a mix of remixes and reheated leftovers. And I feel like, yeah, it's just I don't think it has the sauce that like Hamilton does, you know, because it doesn't have that extra weight to it.

[21:35] Andrew DeWolf: I don't disagree. But how about we go into a mid show and then we'll go through a few of these tracks.

[21:50] Jess McAnally: There's something you need to know about me.

[21:52] Andrew DeWolf: From Disney.

[21:53] Jess McAnally: Incredible.

[21:54] Andrew DeWolf: This isn't going to work, is it?

[21:56] Jess McAnally: No.

[21:57] Andrew DeWolf: On August 15th.

[21:59] Jess McAnally: You know that he's different.

[22:00] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, that's what I like about him.

[22:01] Jess McAnally: Yes.

[22:02] Andrew DeWolf: You'll fall in love.

[22:03] Jess McAnally: You're not the only one with a secret.

[22:05] Andrew DeWolf: Really?

[22:05] Jess McAnally: With Timothy Green.

[22:09] Andrew DeWolf: This is the coolest girl you ever hoped to meet.

[22:12] Jess McAnally: Guys.

[22:14] Andrew DeWolf: Sorry.

[22:16] Jess McAnally: The Odd Life of Timothy Green, rated PG.

[22:26] Andrew DeWolf: I buy my coffee and I go. I buy my coffee and in the Heights, I turn on my radio.

[22:40] Jess McAnally: Yo, you hear that music in the air? Take the train to the top of the world and I'm there.

[22:45] Andrew DeWolf: I'm.

[22:55] Jess McAnally: Hey guys, sorry to interrupt you in the middle of the show, but we've got a show to you. Today's show is brought to you by the extremely kind donations by our donors over at Patreon. Andrew, tell us what's on Patreon, what's going on there, and send some love to Maddie Wargill, who's watching along with us.

[23:09] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, so Patreon is where you can go if you'd like to support us and also get extra content. We actually have quite a bit of extra content going on on Patreon right now, because Jess and Liz are putting on their own show over on Patreon, only for the Patreon supporters. You also, of course, can watch along live while we're doing this. I think it's actually great to have a nice audience in here. At times, sometimes they give us information we didn't have before, and sometimes they just say funny things. So, you know, it's great when people watch along. And they can see the video version of the podcast, which are not going out to the public.

[23:47] Jess McAnally: No, you can see my fun shirt. I've got like a nice, it's like a, what is it? Retro?

[23:51] Andrew DeWolf: Retro style?

[23:52] Jess McAnally: You know what I'm saying.

[23:53] Andrew DeWolf: Retrofuturism.

[23:54] Jess McAnally: Retrofuturism, that's it, yep. And you can see my new house. I don't think anyone has seen it yet.

[24:01] Andrew DeWolf: I've seen it. It's looking pretty nice.

[24:03] Jess McAnally: It's almost a real place. He had to tear the whole back wall down. It was crazy. Vick and I were comparing house repairs the other day.

[24:14] Andrew DeWolf: He paid a lot more for his house than mine.

[24:16] Jess McAnally: Oh, boy. Speaking of tearing down the house, our current patrons that help us keep going here. And we're so grateful. A lot of these people have been through us, through both rebrands and some of them since the very beginning. So just a little shout out to every one of them. I'm so grateful for them. I'm going to say their names and my best Lin-Manuel Miranda impression.

[24:38] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, good Lord.

[24:40] Jess McAnally: It's going to be bad.

[24:41] Andrew DeWolf: It's going to be bad.

[24:43] Jess McAnally: Kiana, Casey Denning, Pants Pants, Jessica, Sylvia Hurtado, Devin Willis, Caleb Bailey, BT Fiberty Jigot, JRL Studios, Carol Baldasso, Aria Ardy, Goldbladed Kikimora, Puffy Boy.

[25:00] Andrew DeWolf: He's not even doing a good job.

[25:01] Jess McAnally: I'm not. I'm really not. Very exhausting.

[25:11] Andrew DeWolf: Mara, Aurora Marasso, Elisa Erdman, Maddie Wargel, The Omega Geek, Sophia Ali, Villainous Miss, Sammy, The Adequate Amount Jacobson, Toriana Frazier, Joe, R.J. Noriega, K. Kijimori Anastasio, Chris Marcotte, Chai Teacup, Thez Beard, Nothing is certain except Beth in Texas, Janae, Musical Hell, Gus Walker, Jon Fadells, Fred Black, and Eloise Fitzgerald, Monica Theroux, Ewan Cassidy, and Leighton A.

[25:45] Jess McAnally: They all give us a little extra financial support that helps us keep the lights on here at the musicals. I feel like I could have done a better. What is your Lin-Manuel Miranda then, sir?

[25:58] Andrew DeWolf: Like that, you know, like a little bit of rhythm, like a little bit of rhythm.

[26:03] Jess McAnally: I see. I'm trying to do like what he always squeaks like.

[26:06] Andrew DeWolf: Would you rather be a poor man's wife unable to perform for your life?

[26:12] Jess McAnally: Oh, why would you do that version of the impression?

[26:18] Andrew DeWolf: Because that's what his voice is sounding the wackiest.

[26:21] Jess McAnally: OK, OK. All right. Let's get back to the show.

[26:28] Andrew DeWolf: Don't forget that the past can speak to the future.

[26:36] Jess McAnally: I'm going to be your substitute. Don't assume the substitute teacher has nothing to offer.

[26:40] Andrew DeWolf: Same goes for a neighborhood. Don't forget that friendships last longer than any Broadway run.

[26:44] Jess McAnally: Mr. President, don't settle for your first draft or your 10th draft. You get to create the room where it happens.

[26:54] Andrew DeWolf: Just don't think you have to do it alone.

[26:57] Jess McAnally: The powerful backing of American Express don't live life without it.

[27:05] Andrew DeWolf: My name is Cecil. I'll sell you gas or diesel cars on my lot.

[27:10] Jess McAnally: Some of them news, some of them not. I got a tricked out crew.

[27:15] Andrew DeWolf: They got one job to do. Tend to your needs. Take good care. Make sure they treat you honest and fair.

[27:20] Jess McAnally: So many deals far and above. One of these babies you're sure to love.

[27:24] Andrew DeWolf: Come find a car and we'll do our part. Cause I'm Cecil Myers, the dealer with a heart.

[27:37] Jess McAnally: All right, Andrew. Let's start with the opening number, No John Trumbull.

[27:42] Andrew DeWolf: You ever seen a painting by John Trumbull?

[27:45] Jess McAnally: Found their fathers in a line looking all humble. Patiently waiting to sign a declaration and start a nation.

[27:52] Andrew DeWolf: No sign of disagreement. Not one grumble. The reality is messy.

[27:57] Jess McAnally: You're a richer kid. The reality is not a pretty picture, kids.

[28:02] Andrew DeWolf: Every cabinet meetings like a full-on rumble. What you're about to witness is No John Trumbull.

[28:21] Jess McAnally: Now, do you know the paintings by John Trumbull?

[28:24] Andrew DeWolf: I am picturing those like classic revolutionary paintings, but I'll be honest. I didn't actually look up which ones they are.

[28:30] Jess McAnally: I just kind of assumed that I knew the style and therefore I knew what it was, but I remember in US history class when I was in eighth grade, like we were analyzing like the small details and the paintings.

[28:43] Andrew DeWolf: They're like one where like how individuals are like, he did the fucking Battle of Saratoga painting.

[28:50] Jess McAnally: Yeah, I fucking I know this guy. Where it's like this guy stepping on this guy's toes. Just as a little like a few to them and just showing like these people here is my big take with this.

[29:04] Andrew DeWolf: If they ever make a Hamilton movie, I think this should start the movie.

[29:08] Jess McAnally: I think what?

[29:10] Andrew DeWolf: Okay. I mean, that's fine. Should they flash the paintings?

[29:15] Jess McAnally: I do. I think see I have a way wackier kind of more avant-garde take for a Hamilton movie because I think like once you have a pro shot, I really well done pro shot of a musical for a movie. You should just do whatever the fuck you want.

[29:26] Andrew DeWolf: I think we should go back to the wackier world of like Cabaret and the Wiz as far as like we're just kind of ignoring the musical and using the songs and making our own thing.

[29:39] Jess McAnally: Okay, and I think you should do that with Hamilton and just shoot every song like its own music video.

[29:45] Andrew DeWolf: I think that they should get someone to do a painting of the cast of Hamilton like John Trumbull style.

[29:52] Jess McAnally: I almost like you remember the opening of the Jesus Christ Superstar movie where you got these hippies and they're just kind of building. I think they should have like, you know, these hip-hop artists come in and destroy like the Library of Congress and just perform a hand at the Hamilton in this like tore apart Museum did.

[30:11] Andrew DeWolf: I just want to I want to see them fucking rip this fucking battle of Saratoga painting because I see this painting all the time.

[30:17] Jess McAnally: What's wrong with it?

[30:19] Andrew DeWolf: Dude. I live in Saratoga.

[30:20] Jess McAnally: It's yeah, I know but what's the problem with the painting?

[30:23] Andrew DeWolf: I'm just tired of seeing it.

[30:24] Jess McAnally: Okay.

[30:25] Andrew DeWolf: Okay. It's just like Hamilton. Just sick of looking at it tired of it, man. I'm sick of it.

[30:30] Jess McAnally: What do you think of this song though? Like it used to be the opening of the album like when Hamilton was a completely different piece.

[30:38] Andrew DeWolf: It's kind of cringe.

[30:42] Jess McAnally: So it's a little bit really it's like it's like it's like literally the song is like this ain't your grandpappy's American history.

[30:53] Andrew DeWolf: You know what? You're right. I kind of like it literally it's literally that I'm not saying nothing is bad. I'm just saying it's a little like I'm I can see why they don't open with it anymore.

[31:08] Jess McAnally: Fair enough, but you like the roots. Don't you the the roots?

[31:11] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, they're part of that right Jimmy Fallon's band.

[31:14] Jess McAnally: Yeah, everyone's favorite band. I mean, honestly, I think of the Jimmy Fallon show like I don't actually know what that show is called. Is he close to tonight show? What is he?

[31:22] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, he does.

[31:23] Jess McAnally: Yeah. Okay, they are the best part like obviously whenever they play it's pretty good.

[31:27] Andrew DeWolf: I I don't disagree but also I would never watch the Jimmy Fallon show if I were forced to hear it speaking of not talking about something cringe. Let's talk about my shot by the roots featuring Busta Rhymes.

[M:SS] ♪ Musical number ♪

[32:28] Andrew DeWolf: Busta Rhymes is a guy. I know for doing a rap number with Jim Carrey on the Grinch soundtrack and beating up Michael Myers at the end of Halloween Resurrection.

[32:36] Jess McAnally: That's he kicks him out a window. If I recall he does and he says trick-or-treat motherfucker.

[32:42] Andrew DeWolf: Trick-or-treat motherfucker.

[32:45] Jess McAnally: Yeah, it's impressive. It's good. Good work. What did you think of his little tune here?

[32:51] Andrew DeWolf: I wasn't that impressed. I mean, it's fine. I just I don't think this this particular song did not do anything for me and I think I mean, I think I prefer the the og my shot. Honestly, in this case, I think it has some things I like but overall it is just I like musical theater sound for a reason and I think they were trying to make this a crossover like makes musical theater people like hip-hop make hip-hop people like musical theater and I think it did neither of those things.

[33:20] Jess McAnally: No, I don't I don't think this one this one didn't work. I feel like there are at least one or two songs on here that maybe made that work, but I don't think this one did no and I just feel like this isn't really effective and representing either the work of Busta Rhymes or Lin-Manuel Miranda for for any of that point and I also think when they just kind of put like the samples of Lin-Manuel Miranda. It sounds a little goofy now as far as song.

[33:47] Andrew DeWolf: I think I really hated ushers.

[34:09] Jess McAnally: Wait for it.

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[34:11] Andrew DeWolf: You said earlier that he sounds bored and I cannot unhear it now during the the mid show. I put that on for a second just to be like, is that true? And it's like no, he's fucking totally right. He does sound like he's falling asleep in the studio.

[34:25] Jess McAnally: And the thing is I like usher. He has done things. I've enjoyed truly. This is going to sound like a ridiculous pole. He is so flippin good in Geppetto. He has a song about luring children to like become donkeys called Treasure Island and he's so good at it.

[34:46] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, I feel like usher actually has like a really good voice.

[34:50] Jess McAnally: Yes. And yeah, he's just kind of he's not like there's not showing any range here. And the thing is Leslie Odom jr. put so much emotion into it. Every time you hear him sing it and every production like he is always bringing like a million percent to it and usher just being like singing this as if it's another mid usher song.

[35:11] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, it shows you how much that the music is really down to how it is performed. It's because it's a musical theater thing. I think that's it's that's part of what it is, you know, that's why people talk about the performers so much in yes, certain shows.

[35:26] Jess McAnally: I really want to talk about an open letter by the artist known Watsky Watsky man's irrational. She claims that I'm in league with Britain in some vast international intrigue. Check please.

[35:39] Andrew DeWolf: You wouldn't know what I'm doing. You're always going berserk, but you never show up to work.

[35:45] Jess McAnally: Give my regards to Abigail. Next time you write about my lack of moral compass.

[35:50] Andrew DeWolf: At least I do my job up in this rumpus. The line is behind me across it again.

[35:55] Jess McAnally: Well, the president lost it again. Oh, such a rough life. Better run to your wife.

[35:58] Andrew DeWolf: Your boss is in Boston again. Let me ask you a question. Who sits at your desk when you're in Massachusetts?

[36:02] Jess McAnally: They were calling you a dick back in 76. Had you really ever done anything? Nuisance, you nuisance with no sense.

[36:07] Andrew DeWolf: You would die of irrelevance. Go ahead. You aspire to my level.

[36:09] Jess McAnally: You aspire to my level and say hi to the Jefferson's and the spies all around me. Maybe they can confirm.

[36:14] Andrew DeWolf: I don't care if I kill my career with this letter. I'm combining you to one term. Sit down, John, you fat motherfucker.

[36:20] Jess McAnally: Was the watching the guy singing of the guy doing the fart noises both.

[36:26] Andrew DeWolf: I love this interpretation of this. So in the context of the original, this is a song that was cut off Broadway in Hamilton where basically Hamilton yells at John Adams about why he's a big piece of shit.

[36:45] Jess McAnally: And I think it's so cool. I get why it's cut and it should be cut. But it's such a well-written like little fast rap thing and it suits Watsky style a lot, but it is like really ridiculous and goofy.

[36:58] Andrew DeWolf: It's very short though. And they I mean they even title it interludes. So I think it's like probably my most listened to song on this album would be Jesus.

[37:08] Jess McAnally: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. What the is that a ridiculous opinion to have?

[37:12] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, a little bit. Is that your Oh King Herod song is the best song from Jesus Christ Superstar moment?

[37:19] Jess McAnally: No, it's very that's very different because that one's true.

[37:25] Andrew DeWolf: I do have an opinion on Valley Forge the cut song.

[37:28] Jess McAnally: Yes.

[37:31] Andrew DeWolf: These are the times that try men's souls the summer soldier in the Sunshine Patriot will in this crisis shrink from the service of their country, but he that stands by it now deserves the love and thanks of man and woman tyranny like hell is not easily conquered yet.

[37:49] Jess McAnally: We have this consolation with us at the heart of the conflict the more glorious the triumph.

[37:55] Andrew DeWolf: I am seeing the best minds of my generation waste away in pestilence and starvation. Is this all a test or have we met our doom?

[38:05] Jess McAnally: Have we set up camp of parameters for our tomb? I have never seen his excellency. So despondent.

[38:11] Andrew DeWolf: So I've taken over writing Marla's correspondence. Congress and receive dishonest responses that one.

[38:20] Jess McAnally: I think is the biggest like I'm really glad that that's not in the show because that one just sucks.

[38:25] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, no, no, I don't disagree. But why do you think it sucks?

[38:29] Jess McAnally: I'm not like a hundred percent sure what it is that but it just does not have maybe so it doesn't have like a good hook like there's just nothing that makes you want to listen to this song like you go through it and I'm just I just am like man that was nothing especially with like a title like Valley Forge like you'd think it'd be kind of like a grand like thing and it's just like it's just lame.

[38:50] Andrew DeWolf: It's just kind of lame. I don't know. I guess I'm not putting it into good words here, but that's that's my thought.

[38:54] Jess McAnally: No, I don't disagree. I think it's like a big dumb.

[38:57] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, absolutely. It's replacing or would be replaced by "Stay Alive" slash the "Ten Duel Commandments." And both of them are really propulsive, just like moving on to the next thing, showing that we have to, like, you know, steal some ships and do all these other things. And like it has an energy leading into like, you know, a proper duel where this is just like, shit sucks. Yeah, shit sucks. That's a bummer. Like that is it. It's just like, and they took elements of that and gave it a purpose and energy. And I really don't even know why it's here. I don't think there's anything interesting enough going on in it for it to really be on this album, unlike some of the other demos, like "Cabinet Battle Three," which I think is interesting. I don't think it would have worked in the show, but I'm glad I got to hear it where this I'm just like it. But you also clued me in that you were not a big fan of "Immigrants (We Get the Job Done)."

[40:24] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, no, I don't like this one. I just OK, I guess. No, I'll be more specific. I like this more than some of the other ones I said I don't like. I think this has at least some cool stuff going on. I like the verses where they go into Spanish a couple of times. I think that's cool. I just think the hook is just awful. And I know it's from the actual show. I just think them saying immigrants, we get the job done. It's like, oh, my God, this sucks. This sucks. I hate this. I also think that "Immigrants (We Get the Job Done)" has become a meme at this point.

[41:01] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, I as far as so I recently saw the musical "Stuffs," which is great, and we will cover sooner rather than later. And there are just a couple of moments in there where it's like, oh, they're trying to have their "Immigrants (We Get the Job Done)" moment where the audience just stops and cheers and screams.

[41:18] Andrew DeWolf: Can I say can I say I don't like the message "Immigrants (We Get the Job Done)." Why in this day and age, people defend immigrants by saying that they're like good for the economy and whatever. And it's just like that's just not the point at all. Even if immigrants were like lazy sacks of shit, like what Trump is doing and what ICE is doing and all that is still awful. Like we don't need this message of like, they're really hard workers. They have a right to be here because they got here, you know, and they shouldn't be round up. I get it, though. It's fine. I'm not saying the song is like bad because of that. I just I just find I just find the hook to be kind of it just doesn't work. I just don't think it works.

[42:00] Jesse McAnally: Don't see I like it. It reminds me a lot of that song from "Selma" that made Chris Pine cry.

[42:07] Andrew DeWolf: Which song is that?

[42:11] Jesse McAnally: I don't remember it, but it has the same kind of propulsive energy. And like, it's like one of those hip hop things that I really connect to. And it is also saying things about like freedom and like connections and all that. I really liked it. I understand why you didn't enjoy it. So here is the thing.

[42:28] Andrew DeWolf: Like where we're talking about musical theater music, usually, and this is pop hip hop music with pop hip hop. You're just like, do you vibe with it or do you not? And that's really all you can bring it down to. Now, as far as things that just don't work, let's talk about "You'll Be Back" sung by Jimmy Fallon.

[42:44] Andrew DeWolf: ♪ Musical number ♪

[43:13] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, fucking good lord, dude. I can literally when I'm listening to it, I can picture his like YouTube video version of it that would pop up on my phone as like a recommended or something. You know, it's like, oh, my fucking God, dude, this sucks. My favorite part is the way he introduces himself at the start, because like we would know if he didn't say, hey, this is Jimmy Fallon. I'm about to sing with my meager little voice because he's a funny man. He's so funny. He's hilarious. Good fucking lord, dude. It's it's it doesn't. I know this is like a very popular song from the show because it's it's a funny one. And I feel like part of why it's so funny, though, is the performance of it. The guy is so like regal the way in the deadpan in the in the spit everywhere, you know, and like Jimmy Fallon just doesn't offer any of that. He does not have anything going on in this. He's just singing the song and not very well.

[44:08] Andrew DeWolf: And he's autotuned to shit and he still sounds out of tune somehow. I get why they gave this to him, because if they gave him a real song, it would have been a big problem. This would have been much worse. So they gave him the imagine him trying to do hip hop. Oh, my fucking God, dude, I don't want to imagine that. I this is just like such a gross splotch on this album, if you ask me. I like you could have asked a real artist. You didn't need to include this song anyway. Like, no, the thing is, you could get like a proper breakup song artist like Taylor Swift, maybe. Yeah, I just there's also another thing. There's like no interpretation of it. He's just doing it. Yes. You know, it's like there's nothing you're offering nothing here outside of, oh, do you like Jimmy Fallon?

Here's Jimmy Fallon doing the song. That's why I'm picturing like the YouTube video of him doing it. It's like when he does other things, it's just like, oh, remember that trend? Here's Jimmy Fallon doing it. It's like, oh my God, I don't fucking care.

[45:11] Andrew DeWolf: Now let's talk about "Congratulations," which is a cut song from the original version of Hamilton that was cut. I want to say it was cut off Broadway.

[45:32] Andrew DeWolf: And a million years ago, she said to me, this one's mine. So I stood by.

[45:42] Jesse McAnally: Do you know why? I love my sister more than anything in this world.

[45:48] Andrew DeWolf: So this is Angelica reacting to Alexander once she gets back and is like, you're you fucked up your entire life. But then they realized, oh, they wrote a song for Eliza and said, which makes more sense and burn is a better song than congratulations.

[46:06] Jesse McAnally: But so many people defend this song and say it should have been in there and wraps up so many plot threads. And I disagree. I think the song is crazy overrated. I think the song is fine. Like as a song, it has good stuff in it. I don't know.

[46:21] Andrew DeWolf: Why do you think it shouldn't be in the show, though? Like what what is your thought that it's like, no, definitely slows down to an act, too, is also dramatically long for a musical.

[46:31] Jesse McAnally: And to have I know we all love our fan fix, but what is essentially a side character? Get her opinion on a cheating scandal, as opposed to like the person getting cheated on.

[46:42] Andrew DeWolf: Like, OK, yeah, no, I see that. I see that. Absolutely. And it's just it's too it's too many reactions to the same event from too many different perspectives. And it's like some of these just don't matter. And that would just stop the show, but not in a good way.

[46:56] Jesse McAnally: Like it's like, yeah, never going to be president. And now I'm going to say my opinion. Yeah.

[47:02] Andrew DeWolf: And it works great on this album. And I think Dessa does a really great job with it and gives gives an interpretation that where you can very much hear it. I've heard like the demos that were done off Broadway. And I was just like, yeah, those are fine. But no, no, thank you.

[47:16] Jesse McAnally: I think it's interesting to have an album like this, though, where it is like you can have these like supplementary songs that are like, here's what this character would have thought in this moment, but, you know, not in the show because it ruins the pacing, you know?

[47:30] Andrew DeWolf: Exactly. And I am grateful for that. There's like another Hamilton song called Let It Go, which I don't think has ever been appropriate, fully released. And it doesn't work at the show, but I'm glad I would actually like to do it, like to hear them do this.

[47:45] Jesse McAnally: Now, they did try to do a sequel album, but Lynn kind of was like, I'm too tired. So instead, he did Hamil Drops, where he released one song a month.

[47:57] Andrew DeWolf: And you got things like the Hamilton Polka and the first version of Burn and like other things. And I actually think the Hamil Drops are altogether much more interesting sounding than what we have here.

[48:08] Jesse McAnally: Specifically, I think the highlight of the Hamil Drops was the Ben Franklin song, which would have been another kind of King George song from this character. It's like, I'm so fucking awesome. Fuck you people out.

[48:25] Andrew DeWolf: Which really is like a fucking weird character in American history. People think he was like more involved, but I feel like he was just kind of a weirdo that hung around and then like dipped.

[48:35] Jesse McAnally: Old dude that's like, I'm gonna smoke so much weed, and y'all should have better smell and farts. I'm out.

[48:41] Andrew DeWolf: And he just like left to France or some shit.

[48:45] Andrew DeWolf: So back to Africa, or do they get a separate state?

[48:49] Jesse McAnally: In 1784, I tried to throw banning slavery in the West. My notion didn't get a single vote.

[48:55] Andrew DeWolf: Slavery's a sin, it's growing like a cancer, but we can't address a question if we do not have an answer.

[49:01] Jesse McAnally: Is it my turn? Good.

[49:03] Andrew DeWolf: Plantations data packed with promise makers. Do you realize the precious time these legislators wasted? Institutionalizing slavery only multiplies our troubles. Wait till the 1800s and the population doubles. You all know this is a stain on our soul and democracy, a land of the free. No, it's not. It's hypocrisy to subjugate the human as a race. Call them property and say that we are powerless.

[49:26] Jesse McAnally: Let's talk about, at long last, Cabinet Battle 3, which is, this song is a debate about slavery, which feels very much like, hey, hey, not everyone was pro-slavery back then, and feels a bit navel-geesey, if you ask me.

[49:42] Andrew DeWolf: It feels like a bit like that, but it also feels a bit like, like, oh, we should probably comment on this, huh? Like a little bit more. Like we have like a show about these guys, and they're all played by like black actors, and we're not mentioning slavery that often.

[50:01] Jesse McAnally: And here it is kind of brought directly. And George Washington's like, yo, how fucking dare you take away my slaves? Someone else will figure this out down the line, not us, not our job.

[50:13] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. And it definitely does have that like, like, oh, well, they they were like anti-slavery. It's just like they were hands tied in a way, except for the Washington part.

[50:27] Jesse McAnally: But like Jefferson, like Jefferson commenting, like, well, even if we wanted to, technically, the compromise in the Constitution, it's like, who put that there, bro? That was you. You did that.

[50:38] Andrew DeWolf: It's like when my nephew throws his fucking trucks at the wall and goes, oh, and I'm like, but you did that.

[50:49] Jesse McAnally: It's like, well, even if we wanted slavery gone, technically, we're not allowed to until whenever because of the rules in the Constitution that I wrote.

[50:59] Andrew DeWolf: And Washington's like, good point. Also, Hamilton, why do you really want to talk about his mistresses when you've been fucking on the side?

[51:08] Jesse McAnally: It's like, fucking man, I don't know.

[51:12] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, it's interesting. I can see why it did not make the show, though. Dramatically, it just doesn't work into the narrative they were playing in.

[51:19] Jesse McAnally: No, and it draws attention. It draws more attention to something that you probably in the show don't want to be drawing that much attention to.

[51:27] Andrew DeWolf: Then let's talk about Washington's by your side.

[51:38] ♪ Musical number ♪

[51:46] Andrew DeWolf: It must be nice. It must be nice to have everybody on your side.

[51:53] Andrew DeWolf: It must be nice. It must be nice to have Washington's by your side.

[51:53] Andrew DeWolf: It must be nice. It must be nice.

[51:57] Andrew DeWolf: Here's a fun fact about me. I do not like Wiz Khalifa. Is Wiz Khalifa, did he do like, what song did he fucking do? I'm pretty sure he did I'm a B. No, I'm a B is uh, uh, the fucking he did. I might be. I might be. How's that one go? I don't remember. Um, he also did see you again. Jeez. I don't think I know. I don't think I know this guy. Um, I've just, he was real hot shit when I was in high school and all my friends, cause I grew up in Detroit. That was like rap was such a big thing and hip hop was such a big thing with all my friends and all that when I was in high school and that's fine. Um, but Wiz Khalifa, I was just remember thinking all of his songs pissing me off. But that being said, I really like this.

I really like the song on this album. I think it's really good. What is it about it that you find so compelling? I just think it's like a proper reinterpretation of Washington on your side and talking about money on your side. The Washington's on your side. I'm just like, that's, you came in with an idea and it's like a pun. It's a, it's like funny in, in that way, but it's also serious cause he is talking about how people see you when you got money, you know? Um, I liked it a lot and uh, it's probably like up there as far, as far as like reinterpretations and like one, it stays true to the melody. Like it's so like, it must be nice. It must be nice to have the Washington's on your side. I like that cause I, but I like the, I like the bridges and all that, that also connected. It's probably my number one favorite song on this album.

[53:48] Jesse McAnally: Okay. No, I think that's respectable. I think he does a, I like most of the ones that are like a full reinterpretation and not just like a cover. Um, Kelly Clarkson excluded, maybe not like like some of them I don't like, but I respect, I respect it. And I think it's a cool idea. Like having something like this where it's like, Oh, take these songs, just do whatever you want with them. You know?

[54:04] Andrew DeWolf: I agree. Um, and that's why I kind of, sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't. Here's the one where I think it doesn't really.

[54:16] ♪ Musical number ♪

[55:03] Andrew DeWolf: Whoa. Whoa. Whoa.

[55:13] Jesse McAnally: History has its eyes on you by John Legend. Now you're a John Legend fan. Your favorite movie is La La Land.

[55:17] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, of course. I love La La Land, which John Legend is. Did he write that? No, he's in it though.

[55:23] Jesse McAnally: Oh, he's in it. Okay. Oh, you know, this one's, this one's boring, dude. Yeah, this one's boring, dude. I know he's trying to do like a more soulful kind of church-esque like gospel version of it. And it just, it does not land. It's just boring. It drones on and it has no energy to it. And I like John Legend songs, but every time he dips his foot into the musical theater world, whether it be this La La Land or Jesus Christ Superstar, it just lands like a wet fart for me.

[56:00] Andrew DeWolf: All right. Well, you know, that's fair. I feel like this particular song, yeah, no, it just does not, uh, it doesn't hit for me at all. And that kind of brings it, because the other two, like who tells your story, Dear Theodosia, like both of Dear Theodosia, they're good. They're fine. Yeah. I think overall it's like, it's very hit or miss, but I'd say it's more hit than, than miss.

[56:19] Jesse McAnally: I would say overall. Yes. As far as a hip hop album, I think it's very effective. Is it very effective of getting musical theater people to get into these artists? I don't know. No, I don't think so. I also don't think it's probably, it's probably not particular effective at getting hip hop people into music theater either. I just feel like it does not work in either direction. It might work if you like Jimmy Fallon videos.

[56:46] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. It's got a lot of the roots on it. If you like the roots. They are all over this fucking thing, dude. And I like the roots. I like their vibe. Um, and I think they're cool. They just need a new front man. They got to drop Jimmy. I, I swear to God, if I ever got a late night TV show, I would make thanks by my band. Like, Oh, we'd be so thankful for that, but you don't have to do that. That would be because I'd also make you like my Andy Richter.

[57:13] Jesse McAnally: Oh God. I would just be there. Christ. Wouldn't that be, you're never getting it. You're never getting a TV. What are we talking about? Late night's going to be dead by the time you're famous enough for that to happen.

[57:21] Andrew DeWolf: If you ever do late nights already dead. Yeah. They fucking killed it with who, who was that again? Colbert Colbert. They literally took him out back and shot him.

[57:32] Jesse McAnally: Why is it Colbert and not Colbert? I don't understand.

[57:38] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know. Colbert Colbert, Stephen Colbert. I don't know. Um, but Donald Trump told the Nazi regime that now controls like Paramount and DC, they're like, I want them off the air and they put them off the air. They did it. Yeah. They did that with the other guy too, but then they put him back on. I don't know. I don't know. Jimmy Kimmel somehow keeps coming back. He's like a, he's like syphilis. He always comes back.

[58:02] Jesse McAnally: He's always comes back. You know, I respect him for making fun of Charlie Kirk, but other than that, he's never really done anything for me. In fact, do you think he should have gone more harder on charter? Charlie Kirk?

[58:12] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, absolutely. I mean, Christ, somebody has got to carry the flame out here. You know what? Out of all like political figures to get a musical, I think Charlie Kirk will a hundred percent get one.

[58:23] Jesse McAnally: We are Charlie Kirk. We already have the fucking song, dude. Yes. Like that will become the musical.

[58:29] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. It's going to be an AI generated musical about fucking Charlie Kirk. We've just willed it into existence.

[58:39] Jesse McAnally: Good Lord. I mean, it's still got more taste than slam Frank. Do you know what that is?

[58:44] Andrew DeWolf: Oh God. That I just am realizing what the pun is. That's awful. Is this a slam poetry by Anne Frank?

[58:52] Jesse McAnally: No, it is a hip hop. Like how do I put it? Is it Hamilton? But Anne Frank?

[58:59] Andrew DeWolf: Yes. But it's like making fun of other cultures, trying to interpret other cultures, if that makes sense. So it's a hip hop version of Anne Frank, but done in a racist way.

[59:05] Jesse McAnally: Yes. What? Who proved this? Whose idea was this?

[59:14] Andrew DeWolf: Like, I'm pretty sure like the Frank family are Latin next identities and they're immigrants. They're like trying to put representation, intentional representation into the Anne Frank story. It was created after a Twitter thread about Anne Frank's white privilege went viral in 2022. So it is like very tongue in cheek about making fun of habits of modern theater.

[59:38] Jesse McAnally: OK, maybe. OK. I didn't realize it was this much of a joke. Maybe it's funny. I don't know. But it's like become like this is a funny thing that you would like see on the Internet. But it's become so grand where I'm like, when does this just take the turn to be actually offensive? I am reading the plot synopsis here. And wow, this is they went ham at the end. Adolf Hitler comes out of the audience and revives everyone.

[1:00:07] Andrew DeWolf: What the fuck? He's inspired to transition Adolf Hitler trans.

[1:00:14] Jesse McAnally: Oh, my God. Broadway is in a weird spot at the moment. And I think transition into Adolf Hitler and declares the Holocaust canceled.

[1:00:27] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, my God. I mean, OK, that's like actually funny in like the edgy way. So I'll give them that. That's that's funny. I don't know if the show works, though. It is making fun of the Hamiltonification of musical theater.

[1:00:38] Jesse McAnally: And we are now at a point where we are making memes where Slam Frank. Wait, so when are we covering Slam Frank?

[1:00:44] Andrew DeWolf: This feels like we will. Andrew, there's enough theater out here where I am confident we have material. OK, we need to take a couple years off, but we're back, baby. So definitely got to ask about the audience's opinion on Slam Frank, because that sounds awesome. What is your thoughts on Slam Frank, everyone? Andrew, before we go on to Slam Frank, what is your overall thoughts on the Hamilton mixtape and your cheese rating?

[1:01:09] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, man. The Hamilton mixtape, I think we've already kind of said it. I mean, it's it's hit or miss. I think it's mostly hit. There's some major stinkers, though, with the Jimmy Fallon one and the Usher one falling asleep a little bit. But I think it's an interesting look. And I feel like I'd like to see more shows do this almost like I guess it works better with Hamilton because it's already kind of in like a poppy style. But I mean, honestly, most fucking theater shows these days are all fucking rock anyways. Like it's all pop pop musicals like nobody. You want to know the only other show that really did this?

[1:01:45] Jesse McAnally: Sure.

[1:01:45] Andrew DeWolf: It is The Greatest Showman.

[1:01:52] Jesse McAnally: Oh, like this is the greatest show.

[1:01:52] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, that was it.

[1:01:55] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, that's interesting. We have to talk about that some.

[1:01:59] Andrew DeWolf: I have no interest in talking about The Greatest Showman again.

[1:02:07] Jesse McAnally: This is the greatest show.

[1:02:07] Andrew DeWolf: Okay. Fair enough. I mean, that is pop music. As far as a cheese, I'm going to give it a Parmesan because well, Parmesan is Ben Franklin's favorite cheese. But also just like it's Parmesan is like something you put on top as like a topping. It's like you wouldn't eat it straight. You're going to use it to supplement something. And I feel like that's what this does. This is this is extra material for Hamilton. You can't you can't just listen to this. You have to listen to Hamilton first. You know, you have to watch Hamilton.

[1:02:35] Jesse McAnally: So this is Parmesan.

[1:02:35] Andrew DeWolf: That's a great choice. I also think this album is effective in what I was trying to do and very effective in being another CD to sell at a box office alongside the album when you go to see Hamilton. Another nice collector's piece. So I am giving this Jimmy Fallon's maple butter grilled cheese that he cooked alongside Mario Batali. I'm sure that's good, but I wouldn't touch it because Jimmy Fallon made it.

[1:03:03] Jesse McAnally: I don't like any alcoholics making my food.

[1:03:08] Andrew DeWolf: He's an alcoholic, too. Jesus Christ.

[1:03:12] Jesse McAnally: Yeah. They call him Jimmy Fallon on the ground.

[1:03:17] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, my God. Everything I learned about this man is just nothing ever makes it better. I still think I prefer him to James Corden. However, James Corden can probably sing better than Jimmy Fallon. We probably know that for a fact.

[1:03:24] Jesse McAnally: I think he's done it. He's in Cats.

[1:03:28] Andrew DeWolf: He is in Cats. He's in Into the Woods. Wait, did you ever watch the Into the Woods movie?

[1:03:33] Jesse McAnally: I think I did. It's bad, right?

[1:03:39] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. And yeah, that's about it. On that note, Andrew, I will see you next week to talk about something else. We're back, baby!

[1:03:46] Andrew DeWolf: I may not see you next week. We'll see. Patrons know.

[1:03:51] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, they know.

[1:03:51] Andrew DeWolf: All right, folks. Battery eliminated.

[1:03:58] Jesse McAnally: See you next time, kids. Bye.

[1:04:06] Jesse McAnally: The Musicals with Cheese podcast is hosted by Jesse McAnally and Andrew DeWolf. Our executive producer is Jesse McAnally, and our creative producer is Elizabeth Esten. This show is mixed and edited by Jesse McAnally. Our theme song was composed by Andrew DeWolf, and the artwork was designed by JRL Studios. Our Keeper of the Cheese is the one and only Juliet Antonio. If you have the funds available, we would love to have you over at Patreon, where you can get tons of fun perks, including full bonus episodes. Also, if you don't mind, could you leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or a comment on Spotify? Just a few extra words to let us know how we're doing. And if you have any corrections, ideas, or just want to say hello, send us an email at musicaltheaterlives at gmail.com. To listen to our entire backlog of episodes, please visit bpn.fm slash cheese. Thank you so much for listening, and we'll see you next week.