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[0:52] Jess: Hello and welcome back to another episode of Theatre in the D. I am joined by my partner in all things and everything, Miranda Moffat.

[0:59] Miranda Moffat: Hello, everyone.

[1:00] Jess: And today, thanks to AEG in Detroit, we were able to see Mamma Mia the National Tour. Um, this is wonderful. And you know what? I'm pretty sure they could have played "Dancing Queen" for two hours, and it still would have been worth the money. So Mamma Mia, as of course we know, has music and lyrics by members of ABBA, and the book is by Katherine Johnson. Uh, so Mamma Mia, if those uh for those that are uninitiated into the world of all things ABBA, uh, are based on ABBA songs. I believe it was a stage show first, and then uh the movie Mamma Mia came out starring Meryl Streep, uh Amanda Seyfried, uh, and that one actually got a sequel, I believe. Um, so uh Mamma Mia is basically using the songs of ABBA to tell a story about uh a young girl who's getting married and her mother, and she doesn't know who her dad is, and this is basically her trying to figure that out uh in some fun musical numbers.

[1:59] Jess: And those of you who have followed our channel for a while will remember the iconic uh drinking game where me and my co-host of New Schools of Cheese and Brianna Jones got very drunk on alcohol that Miranda Moffat made for us to the point where Brianna Jones was uh in a crying stupor by the end of the night. One of the most all-time great nights of the pandemic. Um, this is not our first time seeing the live version of Mamma Mia. We did see it about two years ago, um, when the tour was I think just starting. Um, that was uh a different experience. We had not the best audience uh experience there. Here tonight it was a total blast. And Mamma Mia is a crowd pleaser where really those songs, every ABBA song, they don't have a single bad one. It's bangers to bangers, wall to wall, start to finish. So no matter what, you're leaving with a smile on your face uh at the end of it.

[2:53] Jess: And I think over the years, Mamma Mia has kind of become an easy target for criticism, a little unfairly, in my opinion, in a way that I think Cats was the previous, like, let's all just jump on this thing that's popular. Where I think this has craft and thought to it, especially like the book writer was Catherine Johnson, correct?

[3:14] Miranda Moffat: Yes.

[3:14] Jess: Um, I think she adds so much authenticity to this story, and in the way that she uses the songs, um, it takes songs that were written by Benny and Bjorn, um, songs about women being the powerless ones, and gives the women the power. I think the most iconic one is uh "Does Your Mother Know That You're Out?" which was sung by a man to a quote unquote childish girl, and now it's sung by an older woman to a childish boy, and I think it just works so much more effectively. I think in that way there are a lot of things in both the stage show and also in the movie itself that does that well, where the songs sort of removed from their original context are used more effectively in the musical.

[3:58] Jess: Um, I think like almost opposite to what my usual complaint is, where like I think last time when we saw Lion King, my thing was a lot of it feels like a play interspersed with musical numbers. Um, I think maybe this has a little bit too many. We were really trying to fit in the greatest hits of ABBA really hard. There's it's just like nonstop, like song after song after song. There's very little like talking and context in between for most of it. A lot a lot of the like actual talking is in the first act. And then as soon as you get to the latter half of the first act, it's just like song after song after song, which is like a little strange. It's also a little strange to like suddenly I mean, in any musical, it's always a little strange watching somebody randomly burst with a song. Um, but especially when that song is ABBA. But no complaints here. There were a lot of ABBA songs, but like who doesn't love ABBA? It's hard to find all of that. It's a fun time either way.

[4:54] Jess: Um, but I think there were a lot of fun little sort of tidbits that I picked up on this time. I don't know if you saw this, but um the uh the Tanya character, I think that's uh one of the friends, right? Um, the Christine Baranski uh version of the character from the movie. Um, in that scene where they're doing "Does Your Mother Know," her hat, like her hat and her outfit matches the like tiki bar umbrella that the young man she dances with is using.

[5:21] Miranda Moffat: Do you notice that?

[5:21] Jess: I did not, but her whole ensemble as well as her bag and like the hat basically mimicked the umbrella that was like used for the tiki bar. Um, also I I guess I don't know why it didn't stick into my head that for some reason it's like all in threes, like the three young friends, the three older friends, and then the three men that they like sort of pair off in that way. Um, that was something I had picked up at on this time. One other thing, I think maybe the only song in this that I don't think was used the best is "The Name of the Game" because Sophie was singing that to uh not to Harry, um, to Bill. And to me, "The Name of the Game" is like two romantic partners talking to each other. And so her singing that song to him felt really out of place. Like I understand what they were trying to do with that. Like, I just don't think that that one fit particularly well. But other than that, I think most things are pretty well placed, in my opinion.

[6:16] Jess: I want to say that there is a song that I forgot existed, and when it started up, I was like in full joy mode. Um, we don't get enough good nightmare sequences in musical theater. We kind of dropped that after Oklahoma. So seeing a proper ABBA themed nightmare at the start of Act Two, I can't believe I don't remember that at all from our previous watch, but it was like that was my highlight of the entire show was this surreal monstrosity of colors and garish lighting that starts act two. Um, I know that's a ridiculous thing to say when you have, you know, "Dancing Queen," but that was really just something that tickled me pink. Um, and I agree with you about them just trying to cram in as many songs so much that they had nowhere to put "Waterloo," so they just said, you want one more, everyone? Just so that w you don't leave unsatisfied about not having one of the most famous ABBA songs ever played.

[7:14] Jess: Um, the cast was great. Um, specifically, like if you don't do the Dynamos right, it really is gonna fall flat. And thankfully, all three of those actresses really killed it, and they play age appropriate roles mostly. Um, if I had any critiques of this at all, it's oh gosh. What I think the set design is kind of trapped as the early 2000s with respect, and I mean that usually I say that with a complimentary tone. Here it is just like, ooh, it's a little too simple, a little too I don't know, it just didn't work for me. Except for in highlight moments, like when the boys come out with their flippers. Those are like when the bare set design really works.

[8:01] Miranda Moffat: And I I know people are gonna say this.

[8:04] Jess: Maybe we needed a few more dance breaks to fill that space.

[8:07] Miranda Moffat: No, no, we did not need any more dance breaks.

[8:10] Jess: That was that was another this it was an appropriate amount for ABBA, I think.

[8:13] Miranda Moffat: I agree. The sets are pretty simplistic. Um, but then again, I don't know that there's much else you could do to sort of capture what I think and also I think the movie does really well. Obviously, being able to see everything in the context of like Greece itself really enhances the beauty of it, and you understand why Donna like stays where she is, despite kind of struggling pretty hard to maintain herself and to like make money running the hotel and doing everything on her own. Like, I think that's something that the movie really helps you capture. I think everybody wanted to go to Greece after that movie came out. But yeah, it is a little stuck in that time period. And I wonder too, as we were watching, what like what time it was set in, and it seems like it may be time locked based on the songs, because Donna has these sort of love affairs with these three men and like I think she said '79.

And then there's a lot of references to like you know them being young during the time of the flower power and so that would basically put Sophie being 20 years old that would put us at like the early 2000s basically.

[9:15] Jess: So I wondered that myself kind of like what the time period is.

[9:18] Miranda Moffat: And it seems like it's kind of trapped there based on the songs.

[9:21] Jess: They don't know 9/11 happens.

[9:23] Miranda Moffat: Oh my God.

[9:24] Jess: We don't know this.

[9:24] Miranda Moffat: I don't know what time specifically this is.

[9:28] Jess: '99.

[9:30] Miranda Moffat: Okay, yeah, that's true.

[9:31] Jess: This is true.

[9:32] Miranda Moffat: That's irrelevant though.

[9:32] Jess: Anyway, one of the things so I think Jess mentioned that we had seen Mamma Mia in the previous tour. I want to say that the people playing Tanya and Sam are the same ones that we had that time. I vividly remember the Tanya character her actress being there the last time. I could be wrong. But I think she was probably the most fun for me to watch. I usually don't like the "Does Your Mother Know" sequence like in the movie itself but I really enjoy watching her do it. Uh she was really really fun and really really good. I was struggling because like like you said like there is a sense of um age between obviously like the younger group and the older group involved and I was like I don't know who would be the understudy for these people because everybody everybody kind of looks young to me honestly.

There's only a couple people that sort of like look closer to the age they're supposed to be and everybody else like you all look too young. So I'm like, I don't know who plays who, but either way, I think with the costuming and just with the acting, I think everybody's sort of you can suspend your disbelief. I think everything kind of makes sense. But yeah, I think overall, like a very a very fun time.

[10:44] Jess: If you like the movie, if you like ABBA, if you just enjoy good pop music, you're kind of like Mamma Mia. Like who, I don't know who does it? Who doesn't like ABBA? I a lot of people apparently. I think even people that really like ABBA tend to think that Mamma Mia is some lesser than. And I really bump against that because it's like one of the few jukebox musicals that kind of does it right where it uses the songs to push a story forward, like truly push a story forward. I was kind of sitting there trying to think of how the songs are being used, and every one we end at a different place than we started. Whether it is a literal plot thing or an emotional story beat or something like that. Especially in act one.

Act two, we do kind of get into like let's just like a ballad. But every single one in act one was getting us to a different place by the end of the song. And we've seen a lot of jukebox musicals that don't do that, and don't really try to make the songs push the story forward and we just kind of stop and enjoy, you know, a fun pop song. And here we don't do that until the mega mix at the end where they come out in their spandex and they're like, hey, let's sing. And the audience loved it. Man, the audience was into it tonight, and that's what it's all about. We go to a lot of theater and we do not see this amount of engagement from people over 50. People over 50 are often just kind of like sighing and not particularly interested.

They're season ticket holders that are coming out because they paid for the ticket. So I always feel bad because I just feel someone not enjoying themselves next to me. Here, they were all locked in, they were all having a blast, they were humming along, joking along. Especially during the mega mix at the end, they were singing and dancing, and I just was looking around, just feeling warm inside from like theater bringing people together. It made me so happy.

[12:41] Miranda Moffat: I mean, that's the great thing about Mamma Mia is that typically people who are going to see it have some sort of prior knowledge of the movie or ABBA generally. And so, yeah, you see people like singing along. And it is, I mean, just based on the volume level in the room, it is more akin to a concert, really, with the way that they are, with the way that they put it on. One of the things that I really appreciated this time around was specifically the harmonies. I mean, everybody knows ABBA songs, obviously, but the way that they sort of pull out different harmonies, singing them, and the way that you have sort of a lot of it is like ensemble supported. I always wondered if that was like something they think tree recorded, or if it's like literally all the cast just sort of like in the wings off stage doing the like background harmonies. I don't know how that works. But yeah, the sort of arrangement of the songs is cool and very interesting.

[13:40] Jess: I think the one thing that is like in the sort of transition from a pop song to a theater staging, the one thing that is a little funky is that ABBA songs, like there are definitely a lot of like ensemble pieces, and I think some that are duets. But when you're singing a pop song, one of the things that is always a little awkward is like one person is singing and one person just has to like stand there and react to them. Like specifically, the winner takes it all. Donna is just literally singing her heart out at Sam, and he just has to like stand there for a good two, three minutes and just like look at her reacting to her. I find that a little strange because usually when you watch a musical, like the people are singing together in the scene.

It's a song that's made to be a duet for them to like sing the ballad together. Whereas like, oh, the pop song, you don't necessarily, a little strange. That specific moment is so much worse in the movie than it is on stage, though. Because Pierce Brosnan looks lost next to Meryl Streep in that scene. It is truly like I get it, but that is a musical theater trope. Like even in Les Mis, when you have someone singing a ballad, you do just have someone staring at them while they sing a ballad. The last five years movie really bumped on that too, where it was a theatrical trick of having the other person not present for their songs, and then when you show dramatize them being there and not being allowed to sing, it's really weird.

[15:07] Miranda Moffat: The thing I feel with this musical is it does feel a little draggy in act two until it doesn't, and then we speed up toward the end, which tends to be the way with a lot of jukebox musicals. We felt the same way about Moulin Rouge, and while this isn't a jukebox musical, it's of a very similar structure, Six. As far as anything else negative or positive, I just want to say that this cast really nailed it, and they had great chemistry, and I could tell that they've been hanging out for a while. I know that they made a stop at the Winter Garden to bring Mamma Mia home for a bit, and that must have been a really rejuvenating kind of bringing the cast together moment because everyone brought energy and they seemed to be having a blast on stage. And that's not always the case when you go see a piece of theater. I think they could have stayed out all night if they were allowed to.

[16:01] Jess: I agree. It's definitely a very high energy, and also I think, like not in a negative way, a little bit more loose than a normal theater production, which some of them, of course, not all of them, but some do feel like pretty high art. And this felt like people sort of more naturally playing off of each other and allowing for a little bit of improvisation. And like I know that there was a couple times that folks like accidentally slipped a little bit and they like played it off really well and like made it a piece of the character. Like I think the one character was like trying to hand the conductor something. It was like, oh, it was like a camera to like quote unquote take a picture of the group, and like almost fell down into the orchestra.

I was like, oh no, that's live theater for you. But yes, overall, very enjoyable, very much the like, you know, it is the basis of jukebox musicals. It feels like a jukebox musical. And like I said, if you like pop, if you like ABBA, if you like the movies, you will very much enjoy it. And I think the thing about enjoying Mamma Mia is like don't overthink it. It's not exactly high art, but like you're gonna have a good time, and it's gonna feel like a neat concert. So I think you'll like it. Give it a try.

[17:22] Miranda Moffat: I agree, but no spoilers. When I first saw the movie, which I saw before the stage show, I was so frustrated that we never figured out who the dad was. It really pissed me off of like, what did we just spend these hours doing? But seeing it in many other cases, I get it now. I get it, and I also kind of always want to know, but also I think it does feel somewhat like it makes more sense to just be like, oh, they all love her and they all will take a little piece of her. And I think that piece of it is particularly well portrayed in the show. And if that's the, who didn't, who do you think it is though? Like what do you, what do you really think?

[17:40] Jess: I really, I really want it to be Harry. I think it's probably Bill is my opinion, and maybe that's just because in the movie version, Stellan Skarsgård looks like the probably the best possibility for who could be Amanda Seyfried's dad. And I just love Colin Firth, so like that's my bet. I think it's probably Bill.

[18:22] Miranda Moffat: I want it to be Harry. Sam is kind of give or take for me. I think that Bill is a sperm donor, but Sam is the dad that, you know, married my mom, the stepdad, but Harry is the dad that stepped up. So that is my three distinctions for the dads. I like it a lot, it's a good time. If you're able to drink, you know, have a cocktail, bring some girlies. It's playing at the Fisher Theater right now, so go check it out. And I am going to give this some Athenian cheese because you know what? I think that we all need a little Greek in our diet.

[18:59] Miranda Moffat: I think overall my summation is the same, is don't overthink it. It is a lot of ABBA songs. It's not gonna be a traditional musical, but you will have a good time, and that's what matters. I'm gonna say that a cheese. That's Greek, isn't it? That's Greek. Or what's the cheese that you light on fire? What's that one? Oh god. I have no clue. Whatever that cheese is that you set on fire is an appetizer at Greek restaurants. Maybe that one. Well, they're freaking delicious, which is basically what Mamma Mia is. That's my summary. It's delicious.

[19:40] Jess: It is delicious. And I hope you enjoyed our little discussion. Thank you to ATG in Detroit for making it possible. And next, I believe we will be seeing Anne Juliette, which is something that has been suggested to us for years on Musicals with Cheese. I have yet to see it. Do you know the premise of Anne Juliette, Miranda?

[19:59] Jess: Miranda, what about you, overall thoughts on your cheese ratings?

[20:00] Miranda Moffat: Um, she's shaking her head, no.

[20:00] Jess: It is basically, I don't want to call it fanfic because that sounds kind of diminutive, but it's like, what if Juliette had a life after Romeo and Juliet? Like she had more of her story to tell. And that will be playing at the Fisher Theater from March 31st to April 12th. We will be covering it, and I that is another jukebox musical that everyone says is done great. And it's another one where it's like all the music from one singer or one pop composer, but it's like all these songs you didn't know were by the same guy. But yeah, tune in for that. Thank you very much. And Miranda, you have anything else you have to say?

[20:49] Miranda Moffat: No, just have a good night and go see Mamma Mia.

[20:52] Jess: Yeah, something broken hearted blues of the day you started.

[20:58] ♪ Musical number ♪

[21:02] Jess: There's a fire within my soul. Just one look and I can hear a bell ring. One more time. Now I really know why I should not let you go.