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[0:00] Matt Rodin: Hey, thanks for hitting play. Welcome to The Come Up. My name is Matt. And on this episode, a conversation with Arty Froushan. This is a fun one. Arty and I had never met before this. Um, I had seen him on HBO's House of the Dragon, and honestly, was truly blown away by his performance in Tom Stoppard's's new play, Leopoldstadt on Broadway. So this was exciting for me because I was genuinely interested in getting to know him. On our almost two-hour call, which I have condensed for you, we talked about identity, the meaning of the word artist, discipline, music, the craft of acting, and he ended up asking me some pretty thoughtful questions too. So whether you know Arty or not, I think you'll enjoy this. He's a really down-to-earth and kind-hearted guy, and I'm so grateful that he agreed to chat with me. So without further ado, here is Arty Froushan.

[1:00] Arty Froushan: Where in the city are you? Are you in Midtown?

[1:02] Matt Rodin: I'm in Midtown.

[1:03] Arty Froushan: I'm in the bubbling, frothing heart of Midtown, which is it's a lot. It's a lot. It's like it's irresistibly convenient, you know. And lots of people are like, oh, why don't you move somewhere cool? And I'm like, yeah, but it's six minutes walk to work, which is good.

[1:18] Matt Rodin: Right, and that's why you're here.

[1:19] Arty Froushan: That's why I'm here.

[1:21] Matt Rodin: Right. Have you been to New York before?

[1:23] Arty Froushan: A couple of times. Um, as an adult, very briefly, for like a week or two, and I just always left with this slightly nagging conviction that like this probably needs to be there sort of in New York permanently.

[1:40] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[1:40] Arty Froushan: Because as a Londoner.

[1:42] Matt Rodin: Yeah, you kind of think that maybe London is the center of the world.

[1:46] Arty Froushan: And then you come to New York and you're like, oh no. This is it.

[1:49] Matt Rodin: How has it been being here?

[1:51] Arty Froushan: It's been amazing. I do wish my experience of New York uh extended a bit beyond Midtown, I've got to say. And it does occasionally, but was Broadway always sort of uh like a North Star for you? I know you went to Lambda, so I know you obviously were you know thinking of like acting and performing, you wanted to do that, but was Broadway like on the docket, or was it like I mean, you know, it's on the docket in the way that winning an Oscar's on the docket, like it's not it's not it doesn't feel like a tangible like an achievable goal, really.

[2:17] Arty Froushan: Um interesting, okay. I d I haven't I've never had that like lofty expectations of my career. But then the more the further you get into it, I guess the loftier they get, or the or the more you allow yourself to I always wanted to be an actor, but I never took it seriously as a as a career, so it was kind of a surprise to me that I got it to a good drama school, and then when I actually booked a job afterwards, I was like, well, that's great, and anything else is a bonus. But then of course, once you get a sniff of it, then you know you start to smell blood and you get um of course.

[2:46] Matt Rodin: Are you finding all these things that you've done, you know, artistically fulfilling? Like, are you are are you finding it to be like filling up your cup enough?

[2:56] Arty Froushan: Totally, totally. I as I said, I'm I'm I'm so grateful to have the opportunity to work and not only to work at all, but to work on projects that are meaty, you know. Um yeah, I mean it of course with the bittier screen roles, like you know, my role in House of the Dragon is quite uh tertiary, really. Like it's lovely and I and I enjoyed it. It was just enough to to get get me obsessed, but it was like not, you know, filling in the way that you you were sort of describing. You know what's funny, like at drama school, they were always trying to encourage us to think of ourselves as artists, and I've always had a real trouble problem with thinking of myself as an artist. But I've had a very like rigid academic upbringing uh at schooling, and which kind of works with the kind of lives in a world of like quantifiable metrics of like marks and grades and jumping through hoops.

And artist is not that it's not that at all. And you know like I I have an artistic sensibility of course, but I but it what I've tried to do since I left drama school is like take myself out of that that very like frontal lobe kind of intellectually like I'm not saying I'm an intellectual I'm really not but like that kind of more cerebral way of approaching work and trying to just like feel out what my art what my what the inner artist I just I hate how I'm sounding right now.

[4:14] Matt Rodin: But no I love it. I'm so into it.

[4:16] Arty Froushan: The inner artist like trying to nourish that and then like get to know it and like who you know when when I'm sort of tap into something a bit more irrational. Um it's funny with with stage I guess because you do it so often you can really feel like you've like had a 360 degree kind of experience of that role. I mean I've got I'm still we're still in the early stages relatively speaking of this run and there's much left to explore with the characters even though we're doing the same scenes every night. But I guess you can slightly feel like you've not mastered it of course like you can never like master. Yeah you figured out the moves.

[4:52] Matt Rodin: Right and you threshed it out you know um and you know once you've done that you're like okay well what's next but I'm not you know I I don't feel that at all with this play. I mean this pl the the writing is so rich the characters are so brilliantly nuanced and fully realized that that you know you don't get bored. And I really mean that I'm not just saying that for like press reasons. Like it's it's endlessly um endlessly novel to me doing this show.

[5:19] Arty Froushan: Yeah. And obviously both of the parts that you're playing are really rich. You have that antagonist in the first, and then the second is sort of uh I don't know, it sort of busts the play open in a way that I I guess in the audience like I didn't expect at all.

[5:36] Arty Froushan: Yeah, it feels like that's where Tom Stoppard's like departs from the sort of conventional account of the Holocaust, which is very important. I think he does it beautifully.

[5:46] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[5:47] Arty Froushan: But where he sort of talks about things of like yeah, like memory and and heritage and and just the meaning of and like identity and and like the whole kind of experience of the aftermath and which is which is which is the current experience that the the Jews have of you know what it's like to be a second generation, third generation survivor or what is you know, and that's yeah, that's I feel like it's very it's beautiful the way he does it and encapsulate to encapsulate it in a kind of in a teapot.

[6:24] Arty Froushan: The final scene is like a tea party. It's like a tea party that goes wrong, which Patrick the director always describes it as which I thought was a lovely way of thinking about it. Um but yeah, you trap like you travel all the way from from ignorance and like kind of carefree the carefree kind of demeanour of someone who lives in the modern world, which like if you're lucky and you live in certain places in the West, you don't come into daily contact with, you know, atrocity and to then sort of be sort of sh thrown into the um or to to have your eyes opened to the to the kind of full extent of of of the of what happened is in within the yeah, anyway, it's just very beautifully done and um yeah, it is another dimension, like you say, I think that last scene.

[7:08] Arty Froushan: It got me thinking about my identity as a Jewish person and how I relate to my ancestors or just my heritage and my culture.

[7:19] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[7:19] Arty Froushan: I read something that that you had said that it it had tickled something in you too. There was something in there that, you know, as someone who's born in America, British, Iranian, like it all kind of it it I don't know, it sparked something.

[7:33] Arty Froushan: Yeah absolutely I mean you know I think it there's a there's a kind of universal um it's a universally kind of relatable almost universally relatable um experience that I mean of of I say that a bit tentatively because the Jewish experience is so unique and you know you can't just like say oh well everyone's you know but um but yes I mean for me uh as a as someone who like I say, yeah, like you say, I was born in America and I grew up largely in I was completely anglicized basically so you can hear and by my education my mother herself is very English. Um but yeah my father is fully Iranian. He had this completely different um upbringing and and DNA and my whole entire family is Iranian Isranian.

They speak Persian and my father I guess had other things on his mind when I was growing up and didn't see it as a priority to to kind of induct me into the world of his culture and his country partly because he was so enamored of British culture, was preoccupied with becoming of westernizing himself I think. And um so I've always had this kind of strange like shadow of what especially with you know de b like identity politics and and the place that we're at within the industry and within society at large with diversity etc of like this moment of of returning to our um our roots and you know and celebrating that and um and not not kind of uh homogenizing ourselves um yeah it's it's been really interesting for me um that's how I access the character and how I kind of um how I find common ground with Leo the character because yeah I think yeah it's this kind of rediscovering of a sort of phantom limb of like who you are and and like realizing that you just not there's like been an empty space inside you that you've not really been acknowledging your whole life and then suddenly do you feel that way?

[9:27] Matt Rodin: Do you feel like there that it it like has that has that been like that for you?

[9:30] Arty Froushan: It's difficult because for for for Leo he literally was growing up he you know he had a lived experience of that that he is literally repressed which is a different and interesting phenomenon about memory it's like it's not that he doesn't it's not that he was always in the UK it's that it's that um he's basically dissolved an entire part of his his history um as a sort of self-preservation tool I imagine um but um no for me it's interesting I never lived in Iraq never been to the country I can't go because of military service reasons and all the all other sorts of things um so for me it's more of a of an interesting thing to discover and to s to take ownership of as opposed to reclaim um although I do feel like yeah I I do feel there's some element of reclaiming needed because it is I don't know it's just funny it's just it's just what's inside me it's like it's like it's just part of me and but if no one had told me if I had been adopted I wouldn't know you know I like so it's something that I'm kind of enjoying, yeah, exploring.

[10:32] Arty Froushan: Um, but that said, yeah, that's just my own personal kind of corner of my experience of this play, because it's not about that really, it's about like I say, it's about Jewishness and it's about the experience of um coming to terms with your family's history.

[10:49] Matt Rodin: So in the process of doing this piece in London and over here, how how how is it how is it transforming you? Like, like as an artist, like what is it, what has what has it been doing for you in your where you're at in your life and your journey?

[11:06] Arty Froushan: I mean, it's interesting. There's a there's a certain maturity that it's brought out in me as a as an actor and as a person as well, because you know, I'm not like um slaying uh did CGI dragon, and I'm sure not that I do that in House of the Dragon, but you know, I'm not and I'm not kind of firing a crossbow and like pretending to be a um a taxi driver or something. It's like it's um you have to you have to confront the like the the material itself is it it really it demands um engagement and and uh thought and so it's kind of one of those rare moments that I hope won't be that rare in my career of of doing something that is like really worthwhile and a message that is like worthwhile telling and spreading daily um at this sorry at this time in particular, right now, yeah.

[12:10] Arty Froushan: Um, because there is a resurgent tide of anti-Semitism. Um so so anyway, just so in terms of my personal experience of it, yeah, like like kind of cut rising to meet my work, yeah. Um as something as as a person and not just as an actor and as a member of society, you know, and of like how I'm how I how I am lucky enough to be able to contribute to the debate or to the education that is so necessary about this thing and and actually how I can use my skills as an actor to to contribute positively to society, which other than like giving someone something to do on a Sunday night, which is nice as well.

[12:50] Matt Rodin: But um, but not something that you necessarily think about. I mean, maybe, but in drama school you're like, I want to give back and be a part, you know, and like do something important with my art, which is of course like that's a noble sort of cause, but when you're confronted with the actuality of it in this case, like you know, doing this piece, in a weird way, like you said, you have to it sounds like you have to sort of like, like you said, like live up to that.

[13:15] Arty Froushan: You've start taking yourself seriously in a way that maybe you weren't before.

[13:21] Matt Rodin: Yeah, and engaging in conversations about it outside of the play as well, and not to become an activist so much, but sort of in a way.

[13:30] Arty Froushan: No, an artist, an artist.

[13:32] Matt Rodin: An art of an art of this prushan, yeah. I mean, and also, you know, personally it's just an ex, you know, you know what it's like to do theatre, it's an extraordinary workout and like, um, you know, you can hone your, you get to act every day. So you're just hoping that in small ways you're kind of honing what you do. Um, and the standards of doing a Stoppard play, which like the text is so demanding, the way the play demands to be played. It can't be lazy, you can't um, and like, you know, you need to be extremely disciplined and rigorous to make it work, or else the play just doesn't really.

[14:00] Arty Froushan: Right. And not everything's like that.

[14:11] Matt Rodin: No, no, a lot of it's lots of that has flexibility.

[14:14] Arty Froushan: Totally. No, it's almost, it's basically classical in lots of ways. Like it demands a sort of um, that kind of discipline to make it work and to make it sing. And it's just an extremely amazing chance to like try and fine-tune that discipline. And you know, it's also Broadway, for fuck's sake. Like there's a certain standard that, you know, however shit you're feeling that day, or however uninspired, you know, people have paid X amount for a ticket. The writer is one of the greatest playwrights of all time, and you're on Broadway. Like it demands, it demands something of you, and it's like an extraordinary thing.

[14:52] Matt Rodin: But is that something you're thinking about? Like it, you know, I'm not, not all the time, but obviously I imagine it comes up sometimes for you that you're like, oh, wait a sec, this is, I have to, I'm doing this right now. This is my, I have to go to work right now.

[15:05] Arty Froushan: Yeah, yeah. No, I think especially, I think we're starting to get into the period now where we are all quite fatigued, you know, it's been two months of eight shows a week. You do start to have days where you're like, oh, you know what, I just can't be bothered today, or you know, or I just don't have, I don't have what it takes to stand there in front of a thousand people and go through like a generational trauma like tonight.

[15:24] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[15:25] Arty Froushan: Or maybe tomorrow best Tuesday and up, you know, but then yeah, so you have to kind of just that kind of quick slap around the face of like, no, this is really on so many levels, this is really, really serious.

[15:37] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[15:37] Arty Froushan: And um, and deserves and demands uh your full commitment is a good thing for me, I think.

[15:44] Matt Rodin: Um, are you a disciplined person otherwise?

[15:44] Arty Froushan: I think I am, yeah. I think, yeah, I guess you're acting, you said like academics and grades and shit. Like then you then you kind of have to be somewhere. I wish I, I wish I was more crazy and rebellious and like, you know, just like a mad disheveled artist who turns up late and like weird Peruvian cigarettes and stuff, but I'm not, I'm not. I genuinely do. I um, you know, I'm, I am very disciplined and like I said, I didn't expect to be an actor until the last minute, really. And the last five years has been a process of like adjusting to allow myself to be a little bit less by the book, you know, uh in lots of ways. But yeah, I am disciplined and theater sort of rewards or lives alongside that discipline because it is where it's interesting. You know what I mean?

[16:36] Matt Rodin: And I think actually with screen it's, it's a case of being a bit naughty and um being a little, I mean, I don't know, there's room for naughtiness in all, in all media on I think as an actor. But um, yeah, yeah, it's um, yeah, it rewards discipline, especially this play. Um, how are you, um, how are you feeling your days? Um, are you writing you with the writing?

[17:02] Arty Froushan: I kind of know that at some point in my life I will come to that. But um, I'm just obsessed with trying to get better at acting right now. Like people are, oh, do you want to direct, do you want to write? I'm like, well yeah, but I've hang on, I just, I'm trying to learn how to act right now. And, and so yes, I'm not quite, I mean I do write the odd like crap poem, you know, but that's just um.

[17:16] Matt Rodin: But that's interesting though, because I think a lot of people, like you said, a lot of people, especially actors, you know, it can be a very um, what's the word? Like not disempowering, but you you're, you're in a, you can be in a pretty passive position as an actor, right? You're at the mercy of, you know, obviously on stage it's you every night, but you're at the mercy of the director and the creative team and, and film especially. I mean, you're really at the mercy of the editing and every, everyone else, the hundreds of people that are around you. And so I find a lot of actors are like hungry to get on the other side or they are, and then maybe that's just the community I'm in that I'm, I don't know, around people that are like hungry for everything and want to be doing a million things at once.

[18:06] Arty Froushan: No, in London it's this, in my community of actors and directors, it's all the same.

[18:11] Matt Rodin: Yeah. And you know what? In times of in fallow months and years, which I've absolutely had, um, yeah, I write. Um, but and I'm, and I'm, you know, I, I actually, I have to acknowledge how privileged I am to not have, not have to like say resort to it. It shouldn't be that 'cause it's such a wonderful thing. And you know, if you're good at it and it you can be so fulfilling and, and, and lead to you can create work for yourself, and I'm just lucky enough right now to not be doing that. But, but yeah, I do think of myself as more of an interpreter. I like, I don't, I'm not bursting with ideas to write about yet.

[18:44] Matt Rodin: Yo, that's interesting.

[18:45] Arty Froushan: I think that I will get there.

[18:47] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[18:47] Arty Froushan: Because, you know, I have thoughts about things and opinions. Um, but um, yeah, I, it just, it's not the season for me right now to be doing that. I'm just obsessed with like the craft of acting.

[18:56] Matt Rodin: Of acting.

[19:02] Arty Froushan: Right now. That's again quite pretentious thing to say, but I uh, no, I, I to me that's super interesting. Like I'm, I'm super curious about that because I don't meet a lot of people that feel that way.

[19:11] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[19:12] Arty Froushan: I feel like it's rare to meet people that are really hungry to again learn the craft of acting because it is a craft, you know, there are approaches and sort of ways of going about it. Um, that I mean, obviously I, I find that fun, but that's like one of the thirty-seven things that I do.

[19:32] Matt Rodin: Yeah, and you know what? I wish, I wish I were more like you.

[19:35] Arty Froushan: I really, yeah, but I wish I was more like you. You know what I mean? I wish I could like dive deep in and really get, get into it.

[19:41] Matt Rodin: Yeah, but you can, you know, you can and I, you know, and like before I knew I was gonna be an actor, I was kind of, I was kind of good at languages and I was like kind of good at guitar and music, but not really. And I was like a bit sporty, but like not really good enough to bother with any of that. And then like I was good at acting it was like loads of little things that I was like, but it was kind of frustrating to me. And what I love about being an actor is just this being able to just zero in on this extremely unique, um, kind of mystical art and like just completely obsessing and spending every day like watching um, feeling, learning, kind of, you know, just trying to just you know, I've always loved the idea of like being a doctor or, you know, other professions that are just so singular um and that you can just spend your whole life becoming obsessed with and like I, I'm, I feel I just love that I found something.

[20:33] Arty Froushan: Acting is mystical.

[20:34] Matt Rodin: You know what I mean? Like it is and it's fun that it gets to be, you're right in that like it can be as discipline for lack of a better word as like being a doctor. It can be as sort of straight and narrow as that, right? You can be like, I'm gonna zoom in and hone in on this thing.

[20:49] Arty Froushan: Yeah.

[20:50] Matt Rodin: And there's this mysticism about it. There is this sort of ephemeral you can't quite wrap your arms around it. You know, there isn't a grade. There isn't pass and fail to much to my frustration.

[21:02] Arty Froushan: Yeah.

[21:02] Matt Rodin: Right.

[21:03] Arty Froushan: Absolutely.

[21:03] Matt Rodin: Yeah. It's um, it's ineffable. And um, that's why you know, people chase it long after their careers should be over really and that's, you know, and like yeah and it's, that's, that's what drives you mad as well. And in your, in your kind of madder moments you'll be like, oh God, like I'm never gonna crack it and I don't enjoy it and I come offset and I'm like, oh that was just, I don't know what I'm doing and I d you know but that's yeah it's, it's, it's yeah it's like a sort of abusive lover. You just keep going back to you know what the arts can really feel that way sometimes. Really it's kind of crazy.

[21:41] Matt Rodin: Is there a particular um, like school or approach of acting that you're like particularly interested in at the moment that you're like kind of digging your teeth into?

[21:41] Arty Froushan: I mean, I don't, I, you know, I don't subscribe to like one school or anything. I mean the drama school I went to, Lambda, had a really lovely approach I think of like letting you sample different approaches and instead of having a didactic thing of like this is how you must do it.

[22:07] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[22:07] Arty Froushan: So of course Stanislavski and you know, Utah kind of um more traditional approaches and then like with screen I'm misunder, you know, you know all that kind of stuff I've, I've sort of dipped my toe into. Yeah with, with the screen stuff I'm, I am, yeah, I guess, I guess a sort of misnery approach of just like um, of not, of not planning. Again it's like trying to work against my like control freak academic instincts which are to like control and to plan and to fix things and just like know the right answers.

[22:40] Matt Rodin: Exactly, exactly knowing how you must play a certain beat or whatever and actually it's just really exhilarating to try and like dare myself to just not do any of that and um even on stage um of course things are rehearsed and, and and placed in a way that that must be there to take care of the storytelling but um yeah it's um it's kind of, I'm trying to, I'm trying to just risk a bit more as a, it's not really, it's not a approach or a school but just try to be a bit more um, yeah, a bit a bit more, a bit naughty in my approach really.

[22:40] Matt Rodin: Do you do it, is it, is it hard to um, not hard but or maybe it's fun to watch like television and movies or are you like, are you watching the acting?

[22:40] Arty Froushan: I'm always watching the acting.

[22:40] Matt Rodin: Yeah, okay it's ruined, it's completely ruined green acts has ruined everything for me. I can't, I'd have no joy in any tool I have to watch Master Chef that is the only thing that I like which why not?

[23:51] Arty Froushan: No true great British bake off I mean that's, that's all I need to do is bake off is addictive I like bake off but I prefer savory things so yeah I'm more of a master chef man.

[24:00] Matt Rodin: But but yeah no it, yeah I'm in a inevitably just assessing their choices. I'm like that's interesting they chose to do that and and you just watch really good people. You're like why is this good and you know and I and I love that kind of study. But yeah it is it is like my brain is whirring I'm sitting there on the sofa like twitching and you know um like just like mindlessly just shoveling blueberries into my mouth whilst like sort of you know looking in the big.

[24:12] Arty Froushan: I thought you were gonna say like potato chips or something like blueberries.

[24:27] Matt Rodin: No, no, the blueberries precede the potato chips and then it's the and then it's the butterfingers, which is recent thing. Anyways, don't worry. I I'm not this kind of like, you know, Orlando Bloom esque like green powders, and I don't do that. Um anyway, yeah, I yeah it's ruined, it's ruined uh watching stuff for me.

[24:45] Arty Froushan: Um but again, I kind of love it.

[24:47] Matt Rodin: I kind of love yeah what are you loving right now? What what are you watching? What are actors or you know, what what's what are you into right now?

[24:54] Arty Froushan: I'm watching Wild Osis, like a lot of people, I guess.

[24:57] Matt Rodin: We haven't started the new season.

[24:58] Arty Froushan: You have a started, yeah.

[25:00] Matt Rodin: It's good, it's really good, and it's a particularly impressive kind of nuanced naturalism that is just uh yeah, it's just quite impressive to watch as an actor.

[25:09] Arty Froushan: Um something I haven't really had the chance to do to do proper naturalism actually.

[25:14] Matt Rodin: Right, naturalist.

[25:15] Arty Froushan: I've done a lot of like fantasy, which is quite, you know, uh stylized, um elevated, elevated, you know. This play is is a sort of uh what is what is he call it, Patrick? Like poetical naturalist.

[25:36] Arty Froushan: You can buy into it as a world, but ultimately the characters are just much wittier and much faster thinking and much more eloquent than anyone could possibly be. There's no uming and a ring. But yeah, so that's something that I'm interested in doing more, is just straight naturalism, I guess. And what else? I saw The Banshees of Inisherin the other day. Incredible. I mean, I was really worried it was gonna be just a rehashing of the kind of, you know, very successful dynamic of Brendan Gleeson and Colin Farrell and just like rolling out the same relationship from In Bruges, which is one of my favourite films. But no, it's a perfect film. Honestly, it's like a perfect little film. It actually inspired me to write a bit, which is, whoa, as I've said, it's a rare thing.

Yeah, because it's just like you don't need to have an extraordinarily inspired take on something epic. Yeah, right. It's just a story about a relationship. It's like a relationship exercise. And the script is beautiful, it's hilarious, it's heartbreaking, and the performances are brilliant. So those are the two things that I've been watching recently that I've kind of been creatively admiring.

[26:56] Matt Rodin: And what kind of music are you into? I'm so curious. I'm so excited. I'm obsessed with music, yeah.

[27:02] Arty Froushan: Yeah. What about what's your just like because I know you're like, what do you are you a musical? Do you do musical theater and stuff?

[27:11] Matt Rodin: Okay, so I'll give you the brief. The brief is brief me. I went to school for musical theater.

[27:15] Arty Froushan: Okay, wow, right.

[27:17] Matt Rodin: I went to Boston Conservatory, so I was there, did that, came here, yeah. Actor, singer-songwriter.

[27:23] Arty Froushan: Wow.

[27:24] Matt Rodin: Ended up somehow because of my sort of creative skills, my creative skill set with technology, like I ended up being able to create my own content. So that landed me a role as basically like a host. Like I was interviewing people on opening nights of Broadway shows on Red Parkins for three or four years or something. But I would play games. That was like my gag. It was like Billy on the Street, but for Broadway, basically.

[27:49] Arty Froushan: Okay.

[27:56] Matt Rodin: And in the midst of all this was taking acting gigs and doing this and that, and yeah. I'm really all over the place. And honestly, this was sort of born out of my love of connecting deeply with people. Like I just like having deep conversations. I can't help it. I mean, I went to acting school, so I think that's sort of in all of our blood, that good talk. I lost kind of love being in America and being amongst Americans because they're just a little more open to that kind of thing. I mean, like basically, yeah, British people just they're so squeamish about that sort of stuff. Myself included, you know. I really like I keep censoring myself and like kind of being like, oh no, let's not. I shouldn't say that.

I shouldn't go just come on, Ray. Who do you think you are? But it is so lovely to be able to delve more earnestly into things. And you know what I loved about doing the red carpets and the way and the games that I did was, and this was not my intention in the beginning, but what ended up happening was, you know, because even Americans, when you're at the opening night of a show, and especially on a press line where you're getting asked the same three questions by every single person, you get into this kind of rhythm and you sort of know what to say and you know how to present yourself and you sort of know where you're at. And then all of a sudden people would come to me and I'd be like, name three things that are purple. And people would, that facade is gone.

[29:31] Arty Froushan: Exactly. Yeah, and the facade is gone. All of a sudden, like the real person shows up because they're like, what the fuck are you talking about? I go, I'm so glad you, yeah, you weren't at all. That was it was so I ended up falling in love with it because it was so refreshing to meet people in that moment of like realism, like just total honesty. And that kind of it's how I formed like so many of the friendships and relationships I have with people in the business because they were like, oh, you're different. This is cool and interesting. And so then to bring that over into this, you know, that's my sort of hope is I think so much of, I was just having a conversation with a very good friend about this who's done very well in the industry, and he was like, you know, for whatever reason, there's this in theater, especially, it's a very, well, let me start with TV and film.

TV and film, you can't wrap your arms around, right? Like you being on an Amazon show is not the same as someone being on a Disney Plus show. It's just not like you guys will probably never know each other. You don't, you know, but in the theater, especially in the New York theater community, it is small, it is insular. It's like a club. And so there's this fear that comes up, especially with I think people from America that have always wanted to be on Broadway. There's this fear that if I say something wrong or I do something wrong, that I'm gonna be booted out of the club.

[31:05] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[31:05] Arty Froushan: And so people really try to like keep that, you know, just keep per stay presentable and keep things sort of tight knit. And my hope, and what I've feel very grateful that I've found with the people that I've been able to talk to is like I want that openness, I want that honesty. Like, I want the raw, real thing. Because to me, that's like more interesting. And it's the thing that I didn't have as a kid. Like, I grew up admiring Broadway and theater. But my only sort of exposure was what I saw on Broadway.com, Theater Mania. Nothing wrong with those things. But what happened is pasteurized. Correct. It creates this fake version of the thing. And then all of a sudden, and this is happening to people.

I mean, it's happened for everybody, but I know people, especially around our generation, who have this idea of what this thing is gonna be when they get, you know, when they get to Broadway. And then all of a sudden, it's shattered because it was built up in their mind as some great thing. This was gonna solve all my problems. I'm gonna be set for life. I'll be happy. And then you get there and it's, and then we're talking about the disenchantment of, well, like the potential for this disenchantment when you get there. And I think that's important. Like I just think that's an important perspective, you know. And not to say that I don't want to like discourage people from pursuing a life in the arts.

That's not at all what I'm after. But that's why like, I mean, the tagline, the byline of the show is like honest conversations about the reality of being a growing artist. Like, what is it really like, you know?

[32:41] Matt Rodin: Totally.

[32:41] Arty Froushan: So and I like I really applaud you for doing that, and I like it's kind of, now you're describing it, I'm like, wow, it is super rare. There are hundreds of acting podcasts, but you know, to really like have as your mission statement like kind of warts and all kind of, you know, under the skin sort of discussion about this sort of stuff is really, yeah, it's rare and it's really wonderful. But I think it's just of, I mean, you must have talked about this endless times in your podcast, and I've listened to a couple with some of your former guests, and you guys always touch on it, but like it just highlights how important it is that your approach to the work and your approach to life and your approach to yourself, that that's what's important really.

It doesn't matter what work you're doing or whatever, because like it's all like where you are. Of course it helps, and of course it allows you to frame yourself in a kinder way when you're sort of presenting yourself to yourself. But like, you know, you'll never be happy, you'll never be satisfied, you'll always feel unfulfilled if, and we're all, we're always growing, like we're always, there's no arrival, like there is no point, yeah, at least from what I found, you know. Like I was talking to Lena Hall, who's like a Tony winner, you know. You would think that like that's kind of like she's like, you're, I'm I made it, I'm good. And like, no, she still struggles with things, you know. And I think logically we know that, but to hear about it and have someone talk about it in an honest way, I just think it's so powerful.

[34:16] Matt Rodin: Yeah, totally. I mean, I'll have it, you know, I'm sure we've all had that. But like I said, when I first was like, look, I'm gonna, once I have one acting job, I'll be happy.

[34:24] Arty Froushan: Right.

[34:24] Matt Rodin: And then I did it, and I was like, uh, you know, and then, but yeah, just learning to be content and happy and what you're doing at the time is something good practice, I think. It's difficult though, because you're just forced always as an actor to be looking for the next job, you know. You know that it's the contract is up at a certain point, at which point you will be completely empty-handed again. So you're forced, like whilst you're doing a job that you might be really enjoying, you're forced to be like looking beyond it, and you know, and there's the hum of anxiety sort of just always underneath.

[34:55] Arty Froushan: Yeah, and it gets louder and louder the closer you get to the end, and it's hard to just yeah, be happy where you are, but it's important to and I think listen, there is a very small percentage of people that get to continually work that get to work and work and work and work and work, and I love that for them. I think I'm like, you know, I'm like love that. I think the majority of people are, have that thing that you and I were talking about of like there is just this like sense of well what comes, what's next? You know, like what do I, what's gonna happen after this? There are certain actors who I've grown up with who are really successful now, but who've always managed to have that attitude of like just that quiet faith that they'll get the next job and that it's gonna be okay. And of course, that's just like, that's like the golden snitch of mindsets like you just desperately want to somehow have that. But that is so well said, you know what I mean?

[35:54] Matt Rodin: Yeah, it is just and as long as you don't let it tip over into entitlement or arrogance, but like just being having quiet faith, like you know, something it will come, and actually, yeah, for those people, it has worked out, you know, because yeah, you just don't allow anxiety to cloud your sense of self-profit.

[36:18] Arty Froushan: I like that quiet faith, just a trust, you know. That like in yourself and also in the process, you know, you have to sort of accept you're like, okay, this is what I'm supposed to be doing right now, and whatever will come will come. And I think the pandemic really sort of highlighted that it can all go away in a heartbeat.

[36:44] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[36:45] Arty Froushan: Like it can all just kind of completely. It can just all stop. Yeah, I really can't believe that I'm doing a play right now. And actually when I got Leopoldstadt in London, I was like, the last thing I thought I would be doing after the pandemic was a play, and I was like, really? And it sort of saved me like not spiritually. That sounds too much. Listen, I'm spiritual. So let's get, let's go there. Yeah, I'm really into that. I mean, I'm not, I think I have a spiritual dimension to me, but I'm not, I wouldn't describe myself as a spiritual person. But just the kind of spiritual like barrenness of lockdown, and the sense of ruthlessness and, you know, and the anxiety of it and the kind of humdrum, slightly like cagey, edgy nature of that time, was difficult for me. And I'm naturally quite a buoyant person. I'm lucky enough not to have suffered from serious depression ever. Like I'm very lucky on those fronts.

[37:42] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[37:42] Arty Froushan: But it was, yeah, girl, you are lucky. No, I know, I know, I really know. And I don't, you know, like almost all of my friends are like clinically depressed.

[37:51] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[37:51] Arty Froushan: I don't know why I laugh. It's always awful. But like I'm, you know, but what I'm saying is that period for me, yeah, was I was on the brink of struggling mentally in a way that I had never done before, as we all were. Anyway, so getting a play and being like welcomed into the bosom of a sort of bustling, quirky, like warm and wonderful family like the cast of Leopoldstadt was just like, you know, just the tonic.

[38:22] Arty Froushan: It was like this sort of amazing um yeah. Like I say, it kind of saved me at that time. And um yeah, because it's such a unique environment that the theatre, it's like this like being by the half somehow in in uh in so many ways. Like Yeah, yeah. Um it, you know, the sort of warm glowing lights of a theatre um and um and the audience, and I remember the first night that we opened the Leopoldstadt technically reopened um in uh August 2021, and it was the first proper reopening of a show on on the in the on the West End.

[39:00] Matt Rodin: Oh you guys were first, why there were a couple of others, but they but they were like short, like little two-week runs.

[39:05] Arty Froushan: They were kind of little experiments, a lot of which Sonia Friedman who produced Leopoldstadt also organized. There was a kind of like it was like a sort of little reentry season that was like just a month or two of like just kind of trying out little shows here and there, which I went to a couple, but but Leopoldstadt was like the first proper show to open it in earnest again after the pandemic, and you know, the curtain going up and seeing a sea of masked oh my god masks or a completely full house of surgical masks, um, was like weird and eerie, but also just heart like just like so emotional. You know, and it was like a real was a kind of like I don't want to be too kind of overblown here, but it felt like a historic moment of like you know, the theatre is back and the industry is kind of has you know has made it, or this this well, because we weren't sure.

[39:53] We like there was really and I I so hard to I'm like, how are we gonna explain this to people in the future? Like there was really a sense that like this could go away. We were like, we don't know that if this can sustain through this dead time.

[40:06] I don't know if I had it here, but in the UK they were like telling people to retrain, they were like, You gotta do coding now. I was like, really? Oh my god. It was like, and I was starting to think like shit, maybe, yeah, maybe I can't sustain myself as an actor. And you know, so I got s I got insanely lucky by getting such a such a wonderful job that you know, in terms of its material, but really also in terms of the the life of it, which is which is which is still the case.

[40:35] Matt Rodin: Yeah, here. I mean, it's like yeah, it's like slightly. I'm sure you can tell people are people are psyched to be back in the theater. People are like really I know as an as an audience member, I mean certainly as an actor too. It's incredible to be on stage for the first time again and be like, oh my god, right, we're doing this again. This I forgot that this is the thing that this is how this feels. But as an audience too, man, it feels like really good to be going and seeing shit, you know.

[40:59] Arty Froushan: Yeah, it is it's crazy. And it it sort of you start to think of the last two years as like a weird fever dream, and like you've woken up and you're like, oh, okay.

[41:08] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[41:08] Arty Froushan: It's sort of it's still and not as something traumatic that we all went through. Like because it it it was, you know, like it was totally traumatic, yeah. And you've got to exercise certain amount of it.

[41:16] Matt Rodin: Yeah, but we didn't we didn't, or I would say I have had a hard time like acknowledging that that was a that was a traumatic thing that all of a sudden the rug was pulled out. I mean, I literally I was doing a show in Milwaukee up until in in in the US, we closed, we were supposed to extend. We did not extend because one of the actors couldn't stay. We closed on Sunday. I flew back to New York on Monday. I went and got my nails done with my friend on Wednesday, and on Thursday night was supposed to be the opening of Six on Broadway.

[41:48] Arty Froushan: I was supposed to go to the opening and do like the opening red carpet, right? And that was when the world shut down. So like I had just gotten back. I was like, oh my god, I have some momentum, like I'm feeling I'm on the heels, you know, of this thing, and and then to have it just completely ripped out, um, was and again, especially in the beginning, it was like, oh, two weeks, oh a month, oh two months. Well, we'll have we'll have summer, like we're gonna have a summer.

[42:12] Arty Froushan: Yeah, and then to just kind of be in it for as long as we were um so strange and it's just so strange because that still feels like it was just the other day and now my suddenly I'm like basically 30 and like it's 2022 and we're literally living in the future and it's sort of the world is kind of exploding right now in so many ways.

[42:33] Matt Rodin: Yeah that there's a there's a metaverse like we're we're in the future right exactly yeah and so yeah but I'm just I'm but I'm just glad that we're intact still and um that yeah that it but yeah they said you know they said this didn't they like about the they said theater will will will suffer and it when it won't recover and and they can people but but then you know people compare it to saying that when when when movies and cinemas came around everyone was like oh people are gonna stop going to the theater.

[43:08] Arty Froushan: Yep.

[43:09] Matt Rodin: Well same with TV people are like oh no one's gonna go see movies anymore. You know it's like video killed the radio like it this is it keeps happening you know it's just cool it's just cool that it that it persists and that there is appetite for it. It's just really really heartening we've been around forever.

[43:24] Arty Froushan: I mean think we were we were before radio and we were before any of that like the Greeks like we were we were there you know like the they were doing it OG style back in the day we were yeah no it's it's it's it's so awesome that that that people are people are coming to see the C things theater yeah yeah because it's just easy to be like, oh no, it's expensive and it's a bit stressful because of COVID.

[43:49] Matt Rodin: We're seeing a lot of concerts too.

[43:50] Arty Froushan: Because I miss you are?

[43:52] Matt Rodin: Yeah, because I think I've said this before.

[43:55] Arty Froushan: Yeah, well, you're you're a little busy.

[43:57] Matt Rodin: Um if you you know, but Monday nights, maybe Monday night's really when the concerts really go off.

[44:04] Arty Froushan: Yeah.

[44:04] Matt Rodin: I've said this before, but I I really think, and this is why I think I I feel similarly at concerts as I do in in in theaters, is there is this sense that I don't know if this is quite the correct term, but it's called collective effervescence.

[44:21] Arty Froushan: And there is the sense that we're all sharing this one experience that's happening only this one time. We're all on this wave together. And even if it's not something we're consciously thinking about, there's like a subconscious kind of energy, something that is running through everybody in that space and all of our collective energy, and we just feel it just it's different. You know, we feel like we're a part of something bigger than ourselves.

[44:48] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[44:49] Arty Froushan: And I feel that when I'm in a theater, certainly. I definitely feel that when I'm at a concert.

[44:55] Matt Rodin: Like that's no, I totally agree.

[44:58] Arty Froushan: I mean, I went to uh I don't know if you've do you know Glastonbury Festival?

[45:03] Matt Rodin: Of course I'm a big music festival.

[45:04] Arty Froushan: Yeah, I know.

[45:05] Matt Rodin: Right, right.

[45:05] Arty Froushan: But I I don't mean to be patronizing, but I've just said this to some Americans and they're like, I don't know where they're like, what is that? It's the most it's the biggest music festival in the world, but anyway, let's not um split hairs.

[45:15] Arty Froushan: But anyway, yeah, so I went for the first time this year.

[45:18] Matt Rodin: Um you did.

[45:19] Arty Froushan: Yeah, I got I ended up work like getting a ticket by just saying I'd volunteer basically pulling pints and um serving like drunk um festival heads.

[45:29] Matt Rodin: And um yeah, there was a kind of like a religious kind of vibe.

[45:34] Arty Froushan: Certainly. You know, it was the first one after three years.

[45:39] Matt Rodin: And um who was headlining?

[45:42] Arty Froushan: It was it was j um Paul McCartney and Kendrick Lamar.

[45:47] Matt Rodin: Classic, like hilarious sort of dichotomy.

[45:50] Arty Froushan: Um, and they were like the pet shop boys, but yeah, class movies ridiculous.

[45:54] Matt Rodin: Like everyone you've any any normal music festival, you know, you had you you have to like forgo seeing people that you would pay like a hundred quid to go and see normally because there's just you know, you got this impossible clash, like you want you desperately want to go see um I don't know, the libertines and the pet shop boys are on, so you can't like how do I pick between these two?

[46:15] Arty Froushan: Exactly.

[46:15] Matt Rodin: So you have to you have to kill kill your darlings a bit two miles back because that's a very fucking huge you have you haven't been yourself.

[46:24] Arty Froushan: No, but I've seen I've watched streams and videos and I mean you should you should I mean it's impossible to get a ticket, um, but you should try and go, but anyway, no, it was it had that same kind of moment of just like celebration of life, yeah.

[46:39] Matt Rodin: Just so awesome, and um, yeah, and doing theatre is kind of being you know, you're being a part of that, like of being of celebrating, like being present here together in a in something that is ephemeral and it will go away, and you can't just you know, turn on HBO Max and watch it again.

[46:57] Arty Froushan: It's like a it's a you know, and that memory of that thing and how you felt at the time kind of reverberates. And it's not the same like streaming a show, like it's not like watching Hamilton on Disney Plus or Come From Away on Apple TV, it's just not the same, or or even watching like the one of the National Theatre performances, it's not the same as being in the room, it's just not.

[47:19] Matt Rodin: Yeah, the room where it happened.

[47:20] Arty Froushan: I mean, yeah, it's true.

[47:22] Matt Rodin: It's true.

[47:22] Arty Froushan: It's um, yeah.

[47:24] Matt Rodin: It's it's why I love theatre, and it's why it's more forgiving for actors as well, because if you stuff up a line or a moment, you're just oh god, and it's fine. You just have another, you just do it again.

[47:31] Arty Froushan: Crack tomorrow.

[47:33] Matt Rodin: But yeah, yeah, no, it's amazing. I love theatre with all my heart, and I'm just I'm just like just talking to you, I'm just getting excited about doing it again tonight, really.

[47:43] Arty Froushan: It's like I know, I I yeah, I mean, I can only imagine. I mean, it's like it seems it's it's I will say, you know, I was talking to a another friend of mine whose episode will is it we recorded an episode and he was saying to me that every single time, every single curtain call that he goes and witnesses, he gets teary-eyed, and I'm the same.

[48:04] Matt Rodin: Like, I get emotional in that curtain call, not only because I maybe was moved by the piece, but like seeing the actors see the audience and that exchange that happens where like we're the audience is thanking everybody on stage, yeah, and the actors are quite literally bowing to the audience.

[48:24] Arty Froushan: Like the actors are also saying thank you. They're like, Thank you for being here. Like, you know, you know what I'm you know what I mean?

[48:30] Matt Rodin: Yeah, that that acknowledgement of um what what we what just happened, what what we all went through it together is special.

[48:41] Arty Froushan: Right, and just just reappraising how lucky we are to be able to do it and that we shouldn't take it for granted, which we probably all were doing before the pandemic.

[48:51] Matt Rodin: Because we feel it now, right?

[48:53] Arty Froushan: Yeah, yeah.

[48:54] Matt Rodin: I just you know what it's nice is to be able to, um sorry, we should definitely wrap up, but but just just to to make a point of saying that like um with the debate around anti-Semitism, which is swirling around right now because of um Kanye, because of Irving, what's his name? The basketball player, yeah, Kyrie and Ryan Dave Chappelle, you know, it's kind of terrifying and can you know you can feel kind of helpless about like how and it's just I think yeah, it's kind of amazing to have the opportunity to every night like put those myths to the sword or like contribute in a really useful constructive way.

[49:35] Arty Froushan: Um it just yeah, it just um it makes you feel um like this there are things that you can do to to turn the tide uh anyway, and yeah.

[49:47] Matt Rodin: And that fulfillment that we were talking about before too. Like I imagine it makes it that much more fulfilling because you're like, oh no, I'm I'm I'm contributing to something.

[49:54] Arty Froushan: I'm yeah, yeah, yeah.

[49:56] Matt Rodin: Yeah, no, it's it's good.

[49:57] Arty Froushan: It's yeah, yeah.

[49:59] Matt Rodin: People should see it.

[50:00] Arty Froushan: I mean, I am hoping that you guys run it's not limited, is it?

[50:05] Matt Rodin: No.

[50:06] Arty Froushan: Open-ended, it's sort of open-ended, it depends on sales, I imagine, but it always it could run for a long time, but we'll see.

[50:12] Matt Rodin: Okay, great. As long as we make it to awards season, that's that's the that's the but the truth is it's the people that have seen it, I know have been incredibly moved, and um, including me, and that's why I'm like I was so excited to get to talk to you, because it's I don't know, it's always fun to talk to people that I know, but it's really fun and scary when I get to people that I don't know.

[50:34] Arty Froushan: Yeah, well, I hope this has been an adequately scary experience for you.

[50:38] Matt Rodin: It's oh absolutely terrifying for me.

[50:44] Arty Froushan: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[50:45] Matt Rodin: We're all on the same page.

[50:47] Arty Froushan: A very hot bath after this, just to sort of yeah, bring myself back to reality.

[50:55] Matt Rodin: Thanks for listening.

[50:57] Arty Froushan: See you next time.