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[0:19] Matt Rodin: Welcome to The Come Up. My name is Matt, and on this episode, I sit down with the one and only Broadway royalty, Tony Award winner, Beth Leavel. I am such a fan of Beth. And when I found out that we'd have the chance to talk, I wanted to ask her about being a true working actor for more than four decades. You might know her from The Drowsy Chaperone, The Prom, or Lempicka, but that's three of her 13 Broadway credits, not to mention the countless regional theaters that she's performed at across the country. We recorded this conversation as she was gearing up for her show at 54 Below, featuring the music of Stephen Sondheim while I was wrapping up the national tour of Sondheim's Company. We discussed the highs and lows of being a part of new productions like Lempicka, how she maintains a fulfilling life both on and off the stage, and the importance of community and lasting relationships in this crazy business. So let's get into it. Here is my conversation with Beth Leavel.

[1:47] Beth Leavel: Not really in New York. I did, um, I've done The Witch in Into the Woods. I did Gypsy twice. Never done Company. I like, I did a Sondheim review for Indianapolis Symphony, and I was able to do Mrs. Lovett and some of the other stuff. And I'm so intimidated by it, I think. It was just one of the reasons it scares me because still really? Yeah. It's like, oh, I, I'm not gonna be good enough. I'm not, oh, I can't do that. But then once you get into it, and it's, he writes for actors. He writes amazing storytelling. And so once you can get out of your imposter hand and just live in the music and the words and learn those lyrics. There was a Follies concert at Carnegie Hall. And I was doing Lempicka at the time, so I wasn't able to do it, but Lempicka went, okay, we're done.

So they called me back and they said, can you do, um, uh, "How Can I Leave You?" And I just couldn't come up with a good enough reason to say no. So I did it. I did, and that's gonna be one of the songs in the show. You know, we're still figuring out how the show is gonna be my musical director and I, Phil Reno, but I'm terrified and excited. It’s one of those things where I feel like it's like once you do the work of learning the words, you kind of just have to get out of the way and just say the words and speak them from a place of honesty, and that's what makes his stuff so good and so rich and so timeless, is because it feels like it's simple but not easy, if that makes sense.

[3:19] Matt Rodin: Absolutely, yes, that's a really good way to put it. Getting into the heart of a song with especially with him is not, it's, I feel like the access is easy. It's just a matter of like saying the words and then letting the story come through and getting out of your way. So let's talk about Lempicka.

[3:36] Beth Leavel: Okay. Did you see it?

[3:38] Matt Rodin: I didn't get to see it because I've been on the road, so I haven't been here. You've gotten to do a lot of hits, right? Like 42nd Street with Mia. You've also been a part of many shows that have folded sooner than people probably would have wanted to.

[3:55] Beth Leavel: Absolutely. So I'm curious, like, how does all of that inform when you go into a new project? I mean, probably any new project. You know, you go in with, right.

[4:07] Matt Rodin: I was gonna say, do you go in with like skepticism or no expectations? Or like where are you at now?

[4:14] Beth Leavel: I go in every time thinking it's gonna be the biggest hit that New York's ever seen. Hmm. You just have to. You know, if you go in with like, well, hope it runs, then why do it? Right. So you just have to put your whole commit your whole being, your whole artistry to supporting whatever your task is in this particular show. And I do a lot of original ones too. So you never know what's gonna happen with The Prom or The Drowsy Chaperone. Right. People are like, what? Um, they weren't long-running shows, but they were big hits. So to, you know, to have my Beth imprinted on those means a great deal to me. Um, and Lempicka was, I honestly thought by the energy in the room, you know, I was the new one in the room.

The writers and I believe Rachel as well had been connected with it for about 14 years. Yeah. Kind of how things are. Right. The, you know, birthing a new show. And they got these glorious reviews and La Jolla, and I, the energy in the room when we got there, I thought, wow, this is gonna be so singular and like nothing I've ever witnessed before. This could be huge. Now, mind you, the people that love the show love the show. The show meant so much to so many. So even though it closed, it still will have a life forever and changed a lot of people's lives. And what else can we ask for to be a part of something like that?

[5:44] Matt Rodin: Yeah, and that's true of a show like The Prom too that like didn't get to run its probably full, like whatever that means. The life that it now has beyond the railway run is kind of remarkable.

[5:58] Beth Leavel: Unbelievable. I mean, I get notices all the time, and now I think even this week it's being done in over 300 theaters.

[6:06] Matt Rodin: That's insane.

[6:08] Beth Leavel: I know, and now it's starting to go internationally and continually, even now, not as stage doors, people talk about The Prom and how much it changed their lives and how much it changed their mothers' lives. To be a part of that, even in a not a long run is a privilege and a rarity.

[6:23] Matt Rodin: Yeah, and I guess that perspective, like having that reminder is probably really helpful and healthy when you're in the run of a show because it can kind of feel like you're in a bubble, right? And you get kind of sucked into the culture or the season or whatever it is.

[6:43] Beth Leavel: Yeah, and to have the reminder that, like, oh wait, no, like there are people that are actually being like really moved by this thing, and this is actually having an impact on people. It's a nice reminder. You know, I don't mean to sound so Pollyanna-esque either, because I make my living doing this. Don't you know I check all those numbers every Tuesday going, oh man, this is not good. Uh, show business. But I think, and you correct me if I'm wrong. Like, you know, you make your debut in 42nd Street, you're there for four years. Okay. Like to me, that's an indication that you are, there's a practicality mindset that's happening. Whereas I think a lot of young people come into the business and it's sort of like, how can I build? How can I grow? How can I like work my way up the ladder as quickly as I possibly can? And when I heard that, I was like, oh, clearly there was some interest in like creating a life.

[7:38] Beth Leavel: Absolutely. Um, and I think everyone, you know, is there a correct path? No. Everyone does their own thing. I was the breadwinner at the time, and I wasn't gonna leave my first Broadway show because maybe something else would happen. And I waited until another job opportunity came up. And I just, you know, it was my Broadway debut. I loved that company so much. A lot of us are still very close. And I lived up the street at the time. So I would like walk down in my Reeboks. I'm getting, you know, health insurance. It's so boring, but I'm getting health insurance. You know, I had to be a grown-up if I was moving to New York.

[8:17] Matt Rodin: Yeah. I just think I have so much admiration for that kind of like the mentality of show business, right? That it like, that this, of course, this is the thing we love. No, like otherwise we wouldn't be doing it, right? We're not in it for the money. We're really not. I always admire people that are able to sort of bridge that gap and have that mentality of like, no, I actually need to have a life in order for me to be able to go to work and enjoy what I do. And if I become too engrossed in the work, or that becomes my life, or at least for me, I found it, there's this sense of, I mean, there certainly is no stability in the business, but when you don't have anything else that's stable and that becomes your stability, you're on shaky ground.

[9:09] Beth Leavel: Absolutely. And I don't think I could be my truest artist without having my life. What would I bring to something if I'm not experiencing whatever that is for you? Mine was my family, my pets, my life, my friends, you know, other things that interest me. But it always goes back to what's my next show. I mean, the fact that that still there is that, there's always, that's kind of like, so what is, what is next? What is the next? I'm so used to that. I'm so used to that now. It's people were saying, how do you have a family? How do you do it? I said, well, you know, there's good news, bad news. And the bad news is that you never know what's next. The good news is you never know what's next. I was sitting on a bed thinking, do I need to start doing something else?

And literally that afternoon, my agent called and told me about The Drowsy Chaperone. So that's kind of the good news in this crazy ass world that we live in. You just do not know what tomorrow's gonna bring. You're sitting there and all of a sudden you're doing that, you know, the tour of Company. You're, you know, your Drowsy story is sort of similar to mine in that I was not initially cast for this tour.

[10:31] Beth Leavel: It weaved and bobbed its way to you.

[10:34] Matt Rodin: It did.

[10:35] Beth Leavel: Unexpectedly.

[10:36] Matt Rodin: I mean, it was a shock because I've been told I didn't get the role.

[10:39] Beth Leavel: I was like, I understand. Okay, what's next? And then bam.

[10:44] Beth Leavel: And it changes your life. That one changed my life. They all change your life, but this one changed my career.

[10:50] Matt Rodin: You felt a before and after.

[10:53] Beth Leavel: I really did. Does it change your perspective on yourself? Like, did that change what you believed about yourself at all when that kind of validation came through?

[11:07] Beth Leavel: Not really. I think all of us have kind of an imposter. It's like, oh my gosh. And you know, it didn't really change anything. I was shocked. I was delighted. Most calls I got after the Tony Award, and the most comments I heard was someone finally won it for us. The people that had been doing, you know, chipping away bit by bit, staying in the show for four years, learning their craft, getting better, getting stronger, discovering their artistry, just not coming in and, you know, winning a Tony Award. Um, so I love that I got one for the worker bees.

[11:40] Matt Rodin: Yeah, and I think again, like getting to see someone turned into that, watch that evolution is of a person, I think is just fun. I'm just happy that more and more people are getting to see, you know, who you are and what you've been doing. And obviously, when something like, you know, the prom movie happens, I'm not disillusioned in thinking that like it was ever really gonna be you guys, because we're talking about show business, right? That's what we're talking about.

[12:18] Beth Leavel: But you know, I gotta say, not the worst person to be, uh, oh my gosh, do you know? I was saying to someone, I said, you know, if you're gonna birth something and you go, who can take care of this for mama? Well, let me, I'm sorry, Meryl. Come on.

[12:37] Beth Leavel: Yeah. Part of me thinks, um, we didn't run long enough because of the title. I seem to be, I think we were talking about this. Like, I seem to be stuck in shows that have titles that don't get the tourists in. So you really have to earn. It's like people thought The Prom was like High School Musical, which nothing against High School Musical, but that's not what this show was. Yeah. People thought Drowsy Chaperone, they were clueless what it was. And what did they think this, what did they think the Civil War was? Let's have a whole session on that, shall we?

[13:11] Matt Rodin: I imagine though, like there's gotta be, maybe I'm wrong, but there's gotta be an indication for you when you're in a room that you go, okay, maybe in the culture or in the way that the creatives are working with each other, or the way the producers are, you know, acting. Is there a sense of like, okay, something is amiss in that something is amiss?

[13:37] Beth Leavel: Sometimes, um, let's go hearkening back to Civil War. There wasn't one point of view. So when we got notes, and when the script and the music was changing, and let me say this, that music, listening to 14 men who have some of the most amazing voices in the universe sing his work was breathtaking. Yeah. Someone has to decide and guide the direction of your story, and I think there were a lot of different opinions. And so literally, can you imagine getting notes from loaded? There were six people, and some of them sometimes disagreed with each other. So, and yet I thought the music was so good. Someone smart would figure it out. And there were a lot of smart people. It just didn't find itself. Didn't find itself.

[14:35] Beth Leavel: But I got to play a non-funny role. And I remember Frank Wildhorn saying to me, they tell me he liked tap and belt. And I was kind of thrilled that I had to go through an audition. He had no idea and cast me in this serious role. So it's like, yeah, I can do the other stuff too. I'm going to go to the case. I can do that too.

[14:55] Matt Rodin: So then, so let me throw this at you. Like when I see something like The Prom, uh, I see clear vision. I see clear direction in the sense of like Casey driving the ship, right? What is the world? What is the tone? It feels like I would say that's true of everything Casey's done. I some like it hot, right? Like I see the tone and I see the world and I see the direction we're pointing. Is that true of him? That you, that obviously in your experience?

[15:24] Beth Leavel: Oh, oh yeah. We know exactly where we are. And if it needs to change, it will change. But he has such an amazing vision and eye for storytelling. One of the things we did at Drowsy, we first went to the Amundsen out in LA, and we would spend two hours every morning looking at films from that era to see that we were all speaking the same language, the same tone, the same energy, the same truthfulness. So that's where we started in all becoming a family with the same language and voice and tone, even though it was heightened, it was always truthful. Same with Prom. Same with Prom.

[16:06] Matt Rodin: Yeah. So it's nice to be taken care of that way.

[16:09] Beth Leavel: Yeah, I was gonna say, I feel like I don't know what your experience or like what you like in a director, but I find like when I'm, what it's interesting, you just said it, like that's what I want to feel. Like, I want to feel taken care of as an actor, not babied, right? Like I don't, I want to feel like supported in the work that I'm doing, bringing to the room, the work that I'm doing. Casey, uh, in our relationship, now when I'm in a room with him, he allows me to come in and throw everything I have up against the wall, and then we figure out what sticks. And then if it's my decision, great. If it's his decision, great. We really work as a team. Discovering the Edie Allen was tricky because she's really a narcissistic bitch.

And who wants to live with that for two hours? So they had to go back and figure out how we make her likable because she's just flawed. Her heart hasn't, you know, been truly discovered yet. And that was so interesting from when we were in Atlanta to when we ended up on Broadway, that the shifts that were made because someone, Casey's so smart.

[17:19] Matt Rodin: You met Casey doing?

[17:19] Beth Leavel: I actually met him. I was doing Showboat at North Carolina Theater, and he was in the ensemble, and my agent sent me a script for an audition for a new musical called Crazy for You. And I was reading it during a break, and he was sitting next to me and like, you'd be really good in this. So he read it. So I actually and got that, I actually credited myself for his career.

[17:45] Matt Rodin: Of course.

[17:47] Beth Leavel: Of course. That's when we really got to know each other.

[17:50] Matt Rodin: I want to hear you talk about relationships in the business and in the industry. Um, and I, you know, obviously Casey is a particular example in the sense that like not everybody that you meet is going to become a Tony Award-winning director. Um, but it, it I think it's a micro example of the macro about like nurturing true friendships, actually forming real relationships with people.

[18:20] Beth Leavel: Theater's interesting, right? When you do a show, uh, how quickly we become a tribe, how quickly we have to take care of each other, particularly birthing a new show, in my opinion, birthing a new show when everyone's so vulnerable and yeah, God only knows what's gonna happen. That's one of the reasons I love theater, it's because you become so close so quickly. And you know, I'm still close, like I said, with a lot of the people from 42nd Street, a lot of the people from Crazy for You. These are lasting relationships I will have for the rest of my life.

[18:50] Matt Rodin: And like, why do you think that happens?

[18:53] Beth Leavel: We're artists. We have, we most of us lead with a wide open heart. Love me. Can I get to know you better? I'm having a panic attack. That's another reason I was so drawn, you know, because nobody from North Carolina with no artistic background at all. It's like, why in the world? Where did that passion come from? Yeah. And I think it was just the relationships and how much I loved being in the rehearsal room with people that were like me. I didn't do my first musical until my senior year in high school, but I remember the first day of rehearsal, walking into the band room, and it was a huge high school. And I remember thinking, who are these people? Where have they been? And I, how can I be with them for the rest of my life?

My friend asked me, uh, she said, you want to audition for the musical? I was like, uh what? And it was Brigadoon, and I got like the fourth lead or something, and from then on, I was just scratching to get to the next thing. What's next? How can I continue doing this? But you know, my parents wanted me to, I don't know, eat. So they, in North Carolina, it's like, you're not gonna, you're not gonna get paid to do that here. So I have a degree in social work counseling.

[20:07] Matt Rodin: Do you feel like you still secretly, subconsciously are using the social work to, uh, simplify it greatly?

[20:17] Beth Leavel: It's all about listening and responding. And that's what acting is. So, oh my gosh. Uh, you know, part of it was like an acting class.

[20:26] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[20:28] Beth Leavel: And also talk about, I mean, like you were saying, the culture of a show, of a new show, of a long-running show. There is human dynamic in all of that, and being able to navigate that dynamic and dressing rooms and socializing. It's interesting too. One of the things I didn't have to deal with when I was your age was uh, social media. I have a very, I have a lot of young friends who are trying to establish themselves in the business or just get a job.

[21:00] Beth Leavel: And it's so frustrating. I hear some of my students like, why didn't I get that role? And it's like devastating. Like, how can I be grateful? Like sometimes it's not easy. Are you able to sit in that kind of gratitude often? Are you somebody that like you can sit in that space? Moments. Moments that I'm like, oh wow, I am very, very grateful. Particularly, you know. Someone was just telling me yesterday, you know, they were in a line for equity EPAs. And I think when I was young, I did that a couple of times. It was kind of exciting. But you just don't, it's just we it's not an easy career we are choosing. Like hearkening back to that first conversation we were having. And yet we still do it until there's something in us that goes, you know, we don't get joy from this anymore.

[21:54] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[21:56] Beth Leavel: It's you know it's bra to all of us. Truly. And try and and like you said, it's not your only source of fulfillment, right? Like you have your family and you have your pets and your friends and your kids. Like there are other things in your life that are the foundation.

[22:18] Matt Rodin: Absolutely.

[22:18] Beth Leavel: For that joy to come on top of rather than depending on that thing to bring you joy. Can you imagine if show business was your only lover?

[22:30] Matt Rodin: Uh-uh.

[22:31] Beth Leavel: Oh I think that is maybe the most important thing that I wasn't taught. Well, that was never that that conversation never I was I went to school for musical theater.

[22:53] Matt Rodin: I'd say, where did you go to school?

[22:55] Beth Leavel: Yeah, I went to a conservatory. I had a great education. I am so thankful. All things worked out. My understanding of a program like that is that you're preparing someone for a career in this in the arts. That's that's what that should be doing, hypothetically. There was no conversation of make sure that you like your life. It's okay if you do need um another job.

[23:22] Matt Rodin: Yeah that is not in the business at all to be able to support yourself so that you can go and pursue this thing that you love more than anything else in the world.

[23:33] Beth Leavel: And if you happen to be a family, that's right. It's it's just a necessary part of self-care.

[23:33] Matt Rodin: That's right.

[23:40] Beth Leavel: It's a necessity of self-care. Because ultimately, having I don't even want to say like financial stability, but having the foundation of a life that you enjoy, restaurants you like to go out to, music you like to listen to, family that you're close with, friendships that you can nurture and you care about one another. Though it actually makes the work even more fun and rewarding because it feels like, for me at least, it feels like a cherry on top. It feels like paid vacation at that point.

[24:15] Matt Rodin: That's a good way to put it.

[24:17] Beth Leavel: And it's true. I just can't imagine not, you know, within the Tony Awards. Like, if I'm not able to share that joy with my people, it would be so unsatisfying. It's like, ooh, good for me, good for me.

[24:33] Matt Rodin: It's very DD Allen in that way.

[24:36] Beth Leavel: Ah, thank you. Yeah, there's something really I really love this idea that like there's something about joy that sharing it with other people makes it even more joyful.

[24:50] Matt Rodin: Correct.

[24:50] Beth Leavel: Like being able to celebrate one another. And being in New York, I can, you know, particularly if you're just moving here, I find can be intimidating and insular until sometimes you have to make an effort. Like I moved up here by myself. Like, idiot. And but I quickly, you know, found people that I loved. And that just again makes the journey more joyous.

[25:16] Matt Rodin: That's a lesson in life in general, don't we think?

[25:20] Beth Leavel: Oh my God. I mean, no matter what, no matter what the work is.

[25:24] Matt Rodin: No, you know what I mean?

[25:25] Beth Leavel: Like having having that community is to me, it's the one thing that I feel like, and whenever I talk to people, it's the one thing that I mean again, like that's what you said. Like, that's why that's part of the reason we love this particular job, is because of the community. Is because of the fact that we get to go in a room with strangers, and I'm coming out of a tour a year later, these people are my family now. You know what I mean? Like I know these people.

[25:56] Matt Rodin: It makes the sort of soil of my existence way more rich.

[26:01] Beth Leavel: Because now when I go, I don't know if you had this experience like for me going to see theater now in New York or really anywhere, it's pretty typical. I'll know at least one person in the show that I'm seeing.

[26:13] Matt Rodin: There it is, I I'm like, I can't start smile.

[26:17] Beth Leavel: Like it's so gratifying getting to see someone working and doing doing the thing. I don't know, I haven't thought about that. That like that is also part of this, is that like getting to meet people means that you get to go and find even more joy in going and seeing theater, which I already had a lot of joy doing for sure. But now it feels like it's even more, you know, it's heightened because I love these people. That's another privilege of what we do.

[26:43] Matt Rodin: I'm curious because you grew up in North Carolina, and I imagine there was there religion in your home.

[26:50] Beth Leavel: Like was there, was there?

[26:52] Matt Rodin: We went to church.

[26:55] Beth Leavel: Okay. I was uh out of sub Methodist, we met children. Absolutely. But I wouldn't say it was religious.

[27:04] Matt Rodin: It was social.

[27:06] Beth Leavel: The reason I ask is because I'm wondering if if you if faith has played any kind of role in in your career and your life. Um and not the faith that I no offense to my church, you know. I I have discovered my faith. Uh it's been a prog a process, as all of us have, but I am not religious.

[27:28] Matt Rodin: And I definitely think faith, gratitude, blessing, all of the stuff that I'm continually learning is where I am, my heart is now with whoever your God or whatever speaks to you.

[27:43] Beth Leavel: Yeah, I think gratitude is is sort of a gateway. I mean, to me, it's in the same, in the same vein. Like the fact that you put those in the in the same like camp, I think that's totally right. That like gratitude and faith and spirituality, they're all in the same world to me in the sense that like there is a um a trusting or a or a thanking of something. Say, like, like I'm even just an acknowledgement, like you say, like how lucky you are that you've had it, you've gotten to do 14, now going to be 15, hopefully, Broadway shows. Um just sitting in that sense, I feel like of gratitude is is maybe like I don't know. That's my maybe that's the ticket. Maybe that's the thing that no matter what it is, you got going on.

[28:22] Matt Rodin: Gratitude and love.

[28:23] Beth Leavel: Yeah. And it's not always easy, not always easy. But that's why I want to talk to you. Like you're you're a prime example of like, you know, a show doesn't get the accolades that it deserves, or it doesn't get the run that it deserves. And like there's just a first of all, you can't take it personally. And second of all, you have to keep going. Like there just there has to be another turn on the page. And from what I gather from talking with you and the people that know you, like, you're a positive person. Maybe optimism is too lofty, but like, you know what I mean? Like, you're not someone that's pessimistic.

[28:57] Matt Rodin: No.

[28:58] Beth Leavel: I'm a realist, but I'm a very optimistically realistic person. That's you know, I've been doing it for so long. You know, they don't all come your way. They just don't, but again, if you could take care of your gratitude and your heart and your life, what else can we do?

[29:16] Matt Rodin: That's a good life.

[29:18] Beth Leavel: Yeah. That's a good human being. And we are lucky enough to hopefully have the opportunity to express that heartbeat in the love of what we do and enjoy the responsibility and the love of changing lives. I can't do open heart surgery, but if I can sing a show tune about your worth is priceless no matter who you are, I'm good.

[29:46] Matt Rodin: I'm grateful to get to talk to you and and I, you know, as someone who is, I'm 32. I'm that this tour is like my first big gig. And um, and I've been here for 10 years. I've been, you know, and I worked at NCT and I mean I've I've worked, I've worked, but I haven't gotten to do a big, you know, like this. And so I think for for someone my age, also I can speak for myself, though. Like when I when I see someone like you, um, who is putting in the work, you know, and is and is still grinding um and still doing the thing and and coming at it from a positive, optimistic, generous, loving place. It just makes me feel hopeful and it makes me feel excited about the future rather than like that dread that we were talking about of like what's the next job?

[30:36] Beth Leavel: Like I actually can feel excitement about being like, oh no, I'm excited to see what the next thing is because from the stories that I've heard from you and from everybody, you just don't know. You just there can be excitement and joy in that.

[30:50] Matt Rodin: And and and there should be life between those things, right?

[30:56] Beth Leavel: Like there should be lots of life and during those things.

[31:00] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[31:01] Beth Leavel: Yeah.

[31:02] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[31:03] Beth Leavel: So I'm I'm I'm grateful. I appreciate um that that spark, the spark of inspiration. Um, well, have a great rest of your day. Um have a enjoy pressure in your four weeks.

[31:15] Matt Rodin: Thank you.

[31:16] Beth Leavel: Thank you.

[31:16] Matt Rodin: And hopefully I'll see you in um at 54 in October.

[31:19] Beth Leavel: I'll I'll I'll talk to them and yeah.

[31:22] Matt Rodin: You're the best.

[31:22] Beth Leavel: You're a doll.