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[0:00] Matt Rodin: Hey, thanks for hitting play. Welcome to The Come Up. My name is Matt. And on this episode, a conversation with Khris Davis, the star of the new movie BIG GEORGE FOREMAN. Earlier this year, Khris was on Broadway in the all-black revival of Arthur Miller's Death of a Salesman. Khris and I had not met before this, so it was fun to dive deep and get real about everything from what it's been like doing press for a big movie like this, his journey with faith and spirituality, and his passion for the work. I'm so grateful that Khris was willing to be so open and honest about everything that he's learned. And I think whether you know Khris or not, you'll find his joy infectious. I certainly did. So without further ado, here is Khris Davis.

[0:53] Khris Davis: Chris, how's um how's how's press been?

[0:56] Khris Davis: It's uh I know it's been a lot.

[0:57] Khris Davis: Yeah, press has been intense, man. You know, it's one of those things that I think elevates you because it makes you think about your work in a very interesting way.

[1:07] Khris Davis: Um, I'm not somebody who particularly likes to talk about himself. I like to keep the work focused and specific.

[1:17] Khris Davis: Yeah. You know, because I think that, you know, for me that matters a lot, you know. Um, so being able to articulate some of the things you've done and what you did during a job and how you feel about the job and the people involved and what you hope that people, you know, get to feel from the work that you did. It's been a very interesting um and eye-opening experience in that way.

[1:45] Khris Davis: And I just Yeah, I feel like it requires some growth in you. You change from it.

[1:50] Matt Rodin: Right, because you're like it's like forced reflection, basically.

[1:53] Khris Davis: Yeah, like you probably otherwise wouldn't have done.

[1:56] Khris Davis: Ever, ever. You know, if I could have gotten away with not speaking about myself or really digging into, you know, oh for sure, I would have kept quiet, I would have answered some questions here and there, uh-huh, you know, been really formulaic about it.

[2:12] Khris Davis: Oh, I think the movies you know, nobody so because you know, you're being asked questions, yeah, for hours and hours and hours, and sometimes they're the same questions.

[2:25] Matt Rodin: Right.

[2:26] Khris Davis: So then sure you can answer it this one way for a half an hour. So now you asked that question at minute 31, and you're like, wait a minute.

[2:40] Khris Davis: Yeah, hit it. There's something deeper there, yeah. Something more interesting there, you know.

[2:44] Matt Rodin: So it does that. And have there been any particular revelations that have come up that have been uh that you would like remember that have been surprising, like in doing all this and answering questions. Have there been ha have new things been revealed to you?

[2:58] Khris Davis: I think I think what has been revealed to me is like the distance from what I first started, you know, because when I first started, we were we were still at that time putting hard copies in the boxes.

[3:17] Matt Rodin: Oh, I remember.

[3:18] Khris Davis: Uh yeah, so I was putting hard copies in the boxes, you know, taking the mega bus up from Philadelphia when you know, no when people didn't know about it, it was still room sitting on there and you know, wasn't crazy mad.

[3:31] Khris Davis: Uh, uh all the way up until this moment, and it feels like it's easy for that type of history to feel like a blink. And you can bypass a lot of what you've been through, yeah, how you got there, and how you got to a point where you can do certain types of work.

[3:52] Khris Davis: Because it's right, it's not gonna happen overnight, right? So it made me really dig deep and find those moments, find those moments in my life and in my journey that really got me here, and it felt I felt bad sometimes because I wasn't able to, I didn't have the time to articulate them all in each moment, you know.

[4:13] Khris Davis: Um, but it also made me come to terms with how much I have changed since then, and having to accept that, yeah, you know.

[4:25] Khris Davis: Um of course, if I want the growth to happen in my career, then there has to be some type of personal growth that happens, and it's required, sure.

[4:35] Khris Davis: So I could do all this, right? And then go back into my little shell and go be where it's safe, or I can try to embrace it and move forward with it and grow from it.

[4:47] Khris Davis: So I still feel out. I'm gonna be honest that I feel like every single day I wake up during this process, I'm hitting a new revelation.

[4:58] Matt Rodin: Yeah, you know, I'm like my feet are on the ground, what is happening, this is real, you know. Like not even like a grandness of it, but like the growth that's happening.

[5:07] Khris Davis: Absolutely, yeah.

[5:09] Matt Rodin: And it's interesting, a couple things in there. I think first of all, I think it's really useful at any stage in anyone's career to be doing that reflecting work. Because I think it's easy in the beginning or the start of whatever it is, it to feel like, oh well, my career's not worth reflecting on, or like not taking the opportunity to sit and reflect on, oh okay, what did this process teach me?

[5:35] Matt Rodin: What am I what am I learning right now? Like how am I different than when I started? I think those lessons can happen at any point in, you know, in sort of the longevity of a career, but I definitely think obviously um when a threshold is crossed, like the ones that you've been, you know, crossing this this year and recently, um, there's certainly gonna be uh more perspective.

[6:03] Matt Rodin: You're gonna zoom out even farther, you're gonna have the opportunity to do that. And again, like you said, you don't have to do that. Like you could just go back into your shell and stay the same, but you have a really unique opportunity to like dig in and yeah and and grow it.

[6:19] Khris Davis: And that was honestly one of the things I was so curious about because obviously lots of physical transformation for the movie. I can only imagine the mental transformation that had to go on that I'm in from me, my POV, it was like, first of all, did you think that you were capable of doing this?

[6:40] Khris Davis: You know, I shouldn't like going into a show, right? You get your script, you do the work, you do all the work that it takes to get ready for the show, right? We don't have a rehearsal process. So we don't got four to six to eight or whatever we're gonna do.

[6:55] Matt Rodin: Right, yeah, right.

[6:57] Khris Davis: You know, so I'm like, okay, so there's a lot of work that has to go into it. So I did what one should do, which is study, get into the work, do the analysis, get into the character stuff.

[7:07] Khris Davis: But there was one point during the training, and I didn't have a lot of time to train. And you know, I'm standing in the gym.

[7:18] Khris Davis: I had like 17 fights to learn for the film at that time, right? Never boxed a day in my life.

[7:25] Matt Rodin: Right.

[7:26] Khris Davis: But the boxing training starts, and we're filming six weeks later. So now I got 17 fights to win. I never fought a day in my life. Six weeks. And I gotta fight like George Foreman.

[7:36] Khris Davis: Holy shit. Come on, right? So there was I'm standing in the gym after a long, long day. Just me and there. I'm drinking some water and I'm looking around.

[7:47] Khris Davis: My body hurts so bad. Matt, I can't I can't tell you how bad my body hurt. I was looking around how and I was like, man, I they might have the wrong guy. I don't know if I'm gonna be able to do this.

[8:01] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[8:02] Khris Davis: Because sure, everybody thinks that when you get the movie where you get in shape, you know, that they're gonna you're gonna be working out for three months, and then you're gonna get in shape for three months.

[8:16] Khris Davis: That is not what happened. That is not what happened at all. You know what I mean?

[8:22] Khris Davis: Uh and I I was thinking about that. I'm like, I don't know if it's just me, if this is if this is if this is the standard, but people who are a little higher up get the time, but I don't know how people do this.

[8:37] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[8:38] Khris Davis: And a couple days later, Matt, the hurricane hits New Orleans, rips the roof off the production offices, rains on all the paperwork, and we gotta start over.

[8:49] Matt Rodin: So now it yeah.

[8:50] Khris Davis: So now we're backed up three to four months. So now I've got three to four months to continue my boxing training. Worked out, man. God God was God was looking out for you.

[9:01] Matt Rodin: I'm saying out. Damn.

[9:07] Khris Davis: Damn. That'll bring you faith real quick. I mean, obviously a terrible circumstance, but it's kind of kind of unbelievable.

[9:15] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[9:16] Khris Davis: Um, yeah. So, like, speaking to that, you know, the sort of like when you get the movie, um, and I think also, you know, you've been you've done Broadway shows now, and you've done a lot of television, and um what was your expectation of what those things would be like versus what they actually were?

[9:39] Khris Davis: Like, I'm always interested to hear about the contrast and the process of processing that contrast of like what is my expectation, and then oh wait, the reality of this is not the same.

[9:52] Khris Davis: Um, I went into it with no expectations. I mean, of course, there was the expectation that I was gonna be treated with respect.

[10:01] Khris Davis: Absolutely. You want you have that expectation when you go into any job, but you know, the thing about coming from theater is you know that the floor is never actually sturdy, you know, like it's never really sturdy.

[10:17] Khris Davis: So I went into it without having many expectations at all, right? Without expecting that this was gonna be an awesome gig that everyone was gonna see, and anyone was gonna love my work and nothing will ever be a proud of ever again in my life.

[10:35] Khris Davis: Never had that expectation, but it's easy to go there. I mean, that's so easy.

[10:38] Matt Rodin: It's very easy to go there.

[10:41] Khris Davis: Never had that expectation, never had the expectation that I was gonna have, you know, a lot of collaborative um processes with the director. Never.

[10:51] Khris Davis: So I put all of that energy into the work that I could do before we started. So for me, it was simply about the work. The only expectation I had was for myself to show up for myself.

[11:04] Khris Davis: So I didn't go hang out. No one could meet me anywhere, no one saw me out doing crazy things. I worked.

[11:10] Khris Davis: I would leave from the gym. We'd start at 4 a.m. or 3 a.m. some days.

[11:15] Khris Davis: We'd be in there five to six hours. I'd leave the gym, go home, eat, go back to the gym. I would digest, go back to the gym for two hours, get upstairs.

[11:22] Khris Davis: Now I'm back in my script. Now I'm reading something, and I'm watching footage. And that's the way it was through the entirety of the process.

[11:30] Khris Davis: Because if I would have got caught up in the external things, you know what I mean? It wouldn't, it would have become something else.

[11:36] Khris Davis: And I never wanted it to feel like it was about me. Because once that happened, anything else that happened around this film that didn't go well was gonna destroy me.

[11:46] Matt Rodin: Right.

[11:47] Khris Davis: But the one thing that I could control was the amount of work that I put in. And that's something that no one could take away from me.

[11:53] Khris Davis: And I wanted to say to myself, you know, Chris, win, lose, or draw. When you wake up and this film is done, you don't want to be having any ghosts screaming at you saying, I wish we would have just read a little bit longer.

[11:57] Khris Davis: I wish we would have eaten more calories. Why didn't we go to the gym uh two more hours that day at frenzy? I didn't want that to happen to me at all because I know what it's like to finish a job wishing that you would have made a different choice.

[12:27] Matt Rodin: And so you focus on what you can control.

[12:30] Khris Davis: Yes.

[12:30] Matt Rodin: But that's powerful. And also not that's that's experience too. Because I think you if this if you had gotten this job probably five, 10 years ago.

[12:42] Khris Davis: No, no, no way.

[12:43] Matt Rodin: You know what I'm saying?

[12:44] Khris Davis: Like, yeah, it's it's and and and I and I do, and I see that happen all the time too. It happens in theater too, especially.

[12:51] Khris Davis: I mean, like we said, like the floor's never that sturdy in theater. You really don't know.

[12:54] Khris Davis: And there can be this sort of feeling like, oh my god, this could be the thing that X, Y, or Z, and then you close in rehearsal, you know?

[13:07] Matt Rodin: Like it that's happening.

[13:09] Khris Davis: It happens. It happens.

[13:11] Khris Davis: And um, I think the focus on I I like I had a similar experience where I was doing a job and it gave me the opportunity to like focus on not only the work, but also like it it'd be it consumed me.

[13:27] Khris Davis: It was like my physical regime, my food, it was all of it. There's something really, at least for me, there's something really fun about that and really rewarding about really getting to go like all in and being like, oh no, this is the only thing I'm focusing on right now, is like giving a hundred percent of myself to this thing, and however it's received, whatever else happens outside of me is not it's not on me anymore.

[13:52] Khris Davis: Like all I can do is what I can do.

[13:55] Khris Davis: Yeah, and I think that, you know, in this industry, there's so many— we take it personal, right? And granted, we should feel something, right? But I think we take the wrong things personal. I think we take it personal by saying, "I'm being rejected." I don't know about the "I'm being rejected" as much as that's their flavor. Right? Somebody else wants my flavor. You know, that's because, you know, you start to really understand how people come together and formulate and design shows around ideas. Then it's okay that you don't fit into someone's idea.

[14:40] Khris Davis: Yeah. There's nothing wrong with you. There's nothing wrong with me. You know, I just didn't fit into that. And you know what? If I personally believe that there is something wrong with me, then what is that thing? Is it something? Is it something that I can change? Right in my control. And if so, am I gonna do it or am I not? Right. Was I prepared enough? You know what I mean? Like something like that. What did I do two days ago that led to my failure in the audition today?

[15:13] Khris Davis: Right. Right? It's not just last night, it's what happened on Monday, yeah, that might be affecting your audition on Friday. And I gotta be honest with myself and say that to myself. Like, no, man, I went and I went to happy hour yesterday. Sure, I got home at eight, but I didn't look at my stuff at all. And then I was still drunk, you know, so then I wake up and then I'm hungover and I gotta fix myself in the morning. These things matter. It matters when you walk in, and you think you should get yourself together, but your energy, your inner life— like I say, it's energy different.

[15:48] Khris Davis: Right. Yes, yeah. So you, you know, you're walking in with all of that stuff that you put into yourself the days before, and that's important. And I gotta be honest with myself, and that's what it was for me during my process and my journey. Every single time that something didn't work out, or I didn't land something, I was wondering, I went back to the tape. I played the tape back. Then went back to the board, and I said, okay, what did I do that didn't feel right in there?

[16:18] Khris Davis: Right. How do I change that? What did I do before? How can I change that? And it's always been a constant shift for me, you know, pivoting in whatever felt— whatever I believed was the proper way for me to audition or to perform. Yeah. And that has to continue to happen as we grow as artists. And that was— that's been key for me in my life. So it's huge. And it's also like it's not about changing your essence, right? It's like it's not— there's nothing wrong with you. It's just, okay, you're right. Like the flavor wasn't quite right.

[16:52] Khris Davis: And same thing we were talking about before is like, did I do everything I could do? Like, was I prepared? Did I share generously and kindly and with love in that space? And then the rest of it, it's like, hey, and if you did, if you did everything you possibly could do, hey man, go home, eat some shit, play in the movie, and call it a day. Right. You know, because there's so many variables that go into using their person, their people, and it could be something that's arbitrary as we know, as like, oh, this person shaved today.

[17:29] Khris Davis: That person did not. He had a stomach ache during your audition. You know what I mean? You just don't know. You just don't know, you just don't know. Yeah, yeah. So, but I think that's hard. I just think that's hard. It's especially as artists, we're feelers, right? We're like hardcore people. And so it's hard to not take those things personally and not think there's something wrong with me.

[17:50] Khris Davis: Yeah, you know. That's why— that's what I was saying. Like, I know it's hard. That's what I'm saying. Like, I wouldn't tell someone not to not, right? Yeah. Because it's hard. And I— and it's— how do you not? But I think, you know, as time goes on, practicing some cognitive framing is healthy. Because it's— it's by not making it about you, then it has to be about something else.

[18:20] Khris Davis: And it's always about something else. It can never be about you. So therefore, for me, it just boiled down to my level of preparation. Yep. If it's— if that's what it boils down to, then I know that it's never about me. Because I actually, for this audition, did every possible thing I could do. And it's really y'all show, y'all making a different choice. And it's all good.

[18:42] Khris Davis: It's all good. I get it. You know, and sometimes we might— we might be trying to bite off something bigger than we can handle. Like you said, five years ago, could I have handled this job? No. You know, uh, five years ago, would I have more of this job? Sure. Right. If I auditioned for this job and didn't get it, would I be a little sad? Sure. But knowing me five years ago, yeah, this is a steak I probably couldn't handle.

[19:09] Khris Davis: Right. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. But like sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. So you gotta keep that faith, you know. You gotta keep riding with it, man. And though those feelings are gonna happen. We are gonna feel them all bang on time. Yeah. You know, it don't stop. You're always gonna feel like something might be wrong with you. But that's what I mean by the practice of cognitive reframing.

[19:35] Khris Davis: So I'm always switching up my thought process on a thing. I mean, even with this, like I said before, I was there and I said they might have the wrong guy. Yeah. They might have the wrong guy, right? Cognitive framing. You know, if it wasn't for my boxing coach, you know, I don't know how I would have gotten through this process without that man. Because he, from the outside, was able to continue to speak positive things into my consciousness when things got hard and when things seemed impossible, you know, when it felt like I had reached my limit.

[20:11] Khris Davis: He was able to like continue to push me. So it's never gonna stop, right? And doing some of the— like some of the relationships that you might have with people on the set or something, whatever, you might think there's something wrong with me. Yeah, but it's not. There's nothing wrong. I'm doing everything I can. I'm giving as many hugs and I'm giving as much energy as I possibly could. So how can something be wrong with me when I'm showing so much love?

[20:39] Khris Davis: Yeah, meeting with that. So let's flip this then. So on one end, right, it can feel like how do I get— how do I get here? So basically, like when you're— if you don't get the job, there's a tendency to, like you said, take it personally, right? I think what the— one of the big antidotes to that, at least for me, has been like not— I feel like confidence is not the right word, but it's like having enough self-belief in yourself that it's like, oh no, I'm whole enough, and if I have something to work on, I'll work on it.

[21:15] Khris Davis: But I'm— I'm a whole person. I don't need anything to fill me or fill some void in my— in myself. So in the context of working on something like this, but really everything you've done working with people that you probably have a lot of deep respect for, Donald Glover, Forrest Whitaker, I mean, like it's a— it's a big list, Wendell Pierce, like these are really, really substantial figures.

[21:37] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[21:41] Khris Davis: How has that been in the sense of like showing up and having enough confidence in yourself to say, no, I deserve to be here with these people? You know what I mean? Like, I imagine that it can feel like, oh, wait a second, I'm not— I'm not enough. And you have to show up with a certain amount of, like I said, self-belief in order to like meet them where they are.

[22:03] Khris Davis: Yeah, that imposter thing is real. Um, and I would be lying if I were to say that that didn't happen, and that that doesn't still happen, you know, because sometimes I go into spaces and I'm like, well, I don't know. And you know what? Sometimes those spaces are not right for you. Right. Then it's not necessarily an imposter thing as much as an energy thing. And being able to discern the difference is key, you know, um, because you're not gonna get along with everybody you work with.

[22:27] Khris Davis: You're not gonna get along with everybody you admire, right? But it doesn't take away the fact that they're really strong artists and you can admire their work. Yes, right. Um, so again, those moments happened, right? But I always make it about the work. Right. So, like, sure, imposter as in, will they like me? Will they hate me? Ego. That's all ego.

[23:02] Khris Davis: Ego, right? Yeah, that's— so that's that you feel if you didn't do your work. Right. And you embarrass yourself. You didn't do— but again, Chris, are you being honest with yourself? Did you show up? Or were you B gassing, right? Be honest, Chris. So if I'm able to be honest with myself about that, then I can say, okay. And what I do say is I don't give a damn who likes me.

[23:31] Khris Davis: You don't gotta like me. I don't care anymore if you like me or if you do not like me. Are we telling the story? Is this story being told properly? I will respect you. Yeah. I will give you the utmost respect. You'll never hear crazy things come out of my mouth towards you. If I have food, I will feed you. If I have clothes, I will clothe you. You do not have to like me in the sense of we gotta be buddies, and I don't gotta try to extract that from you.

[24:05] Khris Davis: Let's work— let's focus on the work. So we don't make it personal. And if we're able to successfully make the story the central focus in all of our purposes here at this moment, then I think we're all doing the right job. And I think that nobody's an imposter at that point. It's about the work.

[24:26] Matt Rodin: Right, it's about the work.

[24:27] Khris Davis: So I'm standing across from Forrest Whitaker. I'm not thinking about in the moment, does Forrest Whitaker like me? Right. Oh, snap, I don't belong here. No. I was at home digging into this square. I knew he was coming. So what? I know he was on his way. I didn't walk in to work and then boom, there's Forrest Whitaker. No. No, you knew.

[24:48] Khris Davis: Right, yeah, right. You know what I'm saying? And I didn't sit at home and psych myself out by reading every article I quoted on Forrest Whitaker and watching all of his movies, X, Y, and Z. No, I focused on the task. This is who he's playing. This is who I'm playing. And if I'm focusing on work, then what that hopefully allows Mr. Whitaker to see is that I can keep up my end of the bar agreement.

[25:15] Khris Davis: Which allows him to then respect me because it's not a byproduct. The respect is the byproduct of the work. Of yeah. The work. Of the work. I think that's well said. I think that's really well said.

[25:27] Matt Rodin: I like, and I think it's connected to— I like the idea of it making it about something bigger than yourself.

[25:38] Khris Davis: Yeah.

[25:38] Matt Rodin: Right? It's not— it's not about— like if you can remove ego from it, which it's gonna be there, right? Like that— that's gonna show up because we're human beings, but focusing on something that's larger than you or me, I think is just like a really good tool.

[25:55] Matt Rodin: And I find that to be the case sort of across the board in life too. Like even in relationships, it's like, oh no, can this be about the relationship? Can we— what are we working towards together? Let's not make this a personal thing.

[26:08] Khris Davis: Yeah, um, sometimes you can't take personal, you know?

[26:12] Khris Davis: Um, and to me that feels connected to faith. It feels connected to spirituality and faith in the sense of, right, focusing on something larger, um, and removing the self and trusting that you're taking care of and that you're— you know, you're being held and carried in the places and spaces that you're supposed to be. I know you— I know you grew up going to church. Um, where are you at now with spirituality and faith?

[26:12] Khris Davis: Um, I completely believe in, you know, God, higher power, you know, my faith is stronger— stronger than ever. Yeah, you know, it wasn't always that way during my career a whole lot, you know, because somehow, you know, being in the career gives you a sense of control without being in control, but you still feel like you're in control. You know, so you feel like you don't need, you know, help here, you don't need help there, you don't need to— you don't need to get a coach anymore, you don't need to be the all or music grand power. I mean, self is different now. And ever since I stopped, you know, subscribing to myself, you know, things have changed tremendously. I don't think I could have done this job had I had that attitude, right? You know, because I had to understand this story about Mr.

[27:35] Khris Davis: Foreman is not my story; it's got nothing to do with me. It's about his legacy, and I have the privilege of continuing that legacy, period. You know what I mean? Yeah, whatever I'm feeling about what should happen in this scene, if the director gives me the opportunity to share my thoughts and he wants to listen, that is a privilege. You know, that's a privilege, but it's not about me.

[28:01] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[28:01] Khris Davis: So I sometimes I would go to the director and I say, did we get it? Right? Not did we get what I was feeling. Whatever you saw, whatever you had on your storyboard. Is that it? Yeah. No. Then let's go back. I want to get what that is. To being of service in that way. You know?

[28:23] Matt Rodin: Ooh.

[28:25] Khris Davis: Yeah. Yeah. Being of service too. I think that's again, that's spiritual too. It's like serving something, serving something greater. Serving something, serving something, you know. Um, being of use, you know.

[28:39] Matt Rodin: Yes.

[28:40] Khris Davis: Yes, yes. Because the ego, if the ego is a—I think the ego's a career killer. It's a spirit killer.

[28:47] Matt Rodin: Definitely.

[28:49] Khris Davis: You know, uh, and even if you have a massive career with a massive ego, what's your spiritual condition like? What's your mental condition like? And once it's all said and done and done and said, you know, because you can't be on top forever. You know, you can't be the most important actor forever. You can't do six movies a year forever. Forever. So what do you do when life is in front of you? Where are you at? You know, and uh, that's important. I think that's key to remember no matter what stage of your career that you're in, because we all sacrifice so much in the early years. We missed birthdays, we miss holidays, we miss weddings, phone calls don't get returned, you know, grandparents get older, nieces and nephews become adults, you know, and you look back, yeah.

[29:46] Khris Davis: Yeah, and you look back and you're like, I missed it all. You know, and it's hard. It's hard. These things are hard to navigate. These are just things that I observed over time and that I became conscious of that I wanted to be mindful of shifting. Because it's not easy to do that. And I just want to say that. And I have so much compassion for everybody in this business because we sacrifice so much. It's heartbreaking, the personal and life things that we have to give up. So for anybody on any level of their career, no matter where they are, if they're doing it, I'm so freaking proud of them. I am so freaking proud of them. I have so much respect for anybody who gets into this business. I love your work. Your work is good. It don't matter.

[30:31] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[30:43] Khris Davis: You cooking, dog. It's hard. You know what I'm saying? Um, so yeah. Yeah, spirituality, man. Faith really has carried me.

[31:07] Khris Davis: Years ago, I was doing a play. I was doing The Royale, actually, at Lincoln Center, and um, uh, Clark Peters was the OG in the cast. And that was my first meeting role in New York, and you know, again, that was one of the things I—so funny. I couldn't even know how big the Rickerson was. I just wanted to act, man. Like I just want to work, I just want to work. I just want to work. That's all. So I'm sitting there, and not that this was on my mind, but I think it was a really good thing to plant, a really good scene to plant in the back of my mind. One day, and he said, "Khris, I just want you to remember something. There's no such thing as a star." Kind of like, hmm? He said that the star is the show.

Remember that. He's walked away. And he said, "There's no such thing as a star. The star is the show." So then, if that's the case, what's more important to me is every moving part of this story having the space to tell their part, no matter what role they have. I don't care if you're the lady sitting in the corner who stands up and screams, "I want my pencil back." We need that.

[32:32] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[32:34] Khris Davis: Right? Yeah. And you're a part of upholding the star. People are people, sure. We come to see in film and on stage, quote unquote stars. But really, these people are just conduits to the star. These people uphold the star a little stronger than some of us at times, right? Which we come to see the story. We come to see them tell the story. Right? If that's the case, we could just sit down and have, you know, Argent McDonald just eat cereal and talk to her husband and just enjoy it. You know what I'm saying? And then she'd be stopped. You know, but it's the story that's the star. It's um, I think it's a really—that's such a powerful lesson, and I love the idea that like a group of people, like in the context of really anything, a play or a movie or a band, even, that they are a conduit to—I mean, the star is the—it's actually a good word for it because it does feel like it is cosmic in the sense of like, you know, something being channeled through this group of people together, right?

It's not through one person together that then is going to be received by someone in the audience or have some sort of effect, and in that, they have some sort of emotional response and say, "Oh, I'm compelled" or "I'm attracted to this. This is hitting me in some way."

[34:09] Khris Davis: And certainly I do think that happened, that certain people are really skilled at being a conduit, right? Like when I go watch, I'm trying to think of like a good example, but you understand what I'm saying, that like it's that—that person, it's less about the person being a star and more about the thing that's coming through them. You know what I'm saying? It's like music is re—I think music is a really good way of thinking about this because, you know, John Mayer's amazing, great, but it's the—when I've had the most visceral experiences is when it's like, "Oh my God, that he's in the zone," right? Even at athletes too. When like an athlete, when you say like they're in the zone, um, they're channeling something bigger than themselves because they've done the work, they're prepared, etc. etc. You're—we're witnessing something cosmic happening coming through.

You know, yeah, I do. That's what's so spectacular about it. You know, and that's why we come see these people over and over again, right? Yeah, because I want—I want absolutely—I want more of it. You know, I mean, I—I was so—I didn't know George Foreman's story at all. I had no, no, no, nothing, nothing. I blank slate. Um, so I was really overwhelmed and obviously super compelled by just the whole narrative and especially the sort of the distance from and then return to faith. I think is really—it's powerful. Um, and the sort of the hunger and the aspiration that this man had for every aspect of his life, it was like a hundred—it was a hundred percent in, always, all the time, commitment. You know, um, did that—do you feel that way? Like, do you do you have that part of you that is like hungry and striving and wanting to grow?

[35:09] Khris Davis: Yeah, yeah, like it's constant with me. Um, and it always has been. Like I was mentioning earlier, you know, like bath audition, going back and playing the tape back because I would have the feeling, you know, doing an in-person audition is nerve-wracking, you know, and then you gotta leave there with all that anxiety that you built up over a couple of days and meaning go to the room and it's shocking. And what you said, hopefully you did the thing you thought that you were gonna do. You know what I mean?

[36:50] Matt Rodin: I know.

[36:50] Khris Davis: So like I would go and play the take back because I wanted to change. I wanted to grow. I wanted to get better. I really do. I really do still. I still want to get better. And I still feel like I'm learning so much. I feel like I've learned so much. I feel like I know so much, but I also feel like I don't know anything at all.

[37:11] Matt Rodin: Right.

[37:12] Khris Davis: I feel like always, and I'm like, I'm always like, "God, why do I always feel like a toddler in moments?" Like, what is going to affect? When am I gonna get it? You know what I mean? I don't know if I—we—I don't know if we ever do. I don't know if we ever do. I mean, obviously you've worked with some amazing people. Do you like—do you sense again? I'm sure it's the same, like they just focus on the work, right? It's like nobody really knows anything other than, I guess, who you are. You have to know sort of yourself.

[37:41] Matt Rodin: Yeah, yourself here and then focus on the work.

[37:46] Khris Davis: Yeah, well, you know, I would say not a lot of people focus on themselves. You know that they focus on the work, you know, they get a lot out of it. People get a lot out of it, especially if you're able to be successful in many ways in your career, you know. It’s real easy to get caught up into yourself. It's really—and you know what? There's nothing wrong with that. I want to also say that there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with having the ability to celebrate in the moment your achievement. There's nothing wrong with being able to understand in the moment exactly where you are, yeah, and being able to celebrate that. That's also really great too. You know, but you know, uh, I think even with that, we all should be striving for what can make us better in our moments in our lives, in the work that we do, you know, or do I take this moment and ride with it, and then when it fills us out, I'll try to figure it out.

You know, who knows? Um, because life is long, and I only have my own lessons to learn, and I just pray that everybody in their journey and their walk has the trivility, or has the courage, I'll say has the courage to step into those changes when they present themselves, you know, because we all get them. I tell people all the time, right? So I did grow up in the church, X, Y, and Z. And people think God has some booming voice. So they say there is no God. I don't hear God's voice. They think it's some loud, rolling voice, "Oh, we're gonna come down and crack the sky." It's not gonna happen like that. God's voice, God's voice is not exclusive to prep pastors. It's not exclusive to bishops, cardinals, priests, whoever.

God's voice speaks to everyone every single day. And you know what it is? It's that little voice in the back of your head that says, "Grab the umbrella." And you're like, "I don't need the umbrella." Twenty minutes later, it's raining. Yeah, right. You're in the grocery store and says, "I'm eating drink orange juice." Why do I want orange juice? Whatever. And then you get home and your person says, "Ah, I've been craving orange juice all day." You're like, right? I know it. Or is that thing that whispers to you, "It's time to leave a relationship?" Right. A friendship. Or go speak to that person or send that email. Get on your computer, do that. That's God's voice. That's the guidance that we all get. So I just pray everybody has the courage to listen, to hear, and to trust it, and to step forward through it when speaking.

[40:41] Khris Davis: Because we all get these moments. We all have the opportunity to listen. I'm not going to say I'm a pro at being aggressive. I would be lying. I struggle every day. These thoughts get clogged up. What's going on up here? So just that we all have the courage to do it. It's courage. I think you're right. I feel like courage is totally the right word. Because I think it's easy. I don't know if easy is the right word either, but it feels safe to stay in what we know and to stay stagnant and to stay where we are and as who we are. I think it can be really scary to step into something that is unknown. Say, oh my, can I do this? Right? Like, am I capable? Like, this opportunity is being presented to me. Am I capable? It takes courage to say, no, no, like I'm gonna try. I'm gonna see how this goes. It's gonna be scary either way.

[41:49] Matt Rodin: Yeah, that's right.

[41:49] Khris Davis: Either you're gonna do it scared, or you go have that fear later on, thinking about what would have been, should have been, could have been. You had that fear too. So might as well just go ahead and do it. You know, do it scared.

[42:05] Matt Rodin: Do it scared.

[42:06] Khris Davis: I'm a big fan of do it scared. And you know what? And when you do it, guess what? You're still gonna be scared.

[42:13] Matt Rodin: That's right.

[42:14] Khris Davis: Just do it. Just do it. You're gonna be scared all the time. Might as well.

[42:23] Matt Rodin: Yes.

[42:24] Khris Davis: You just walk through the door with love and courage. You're walking through the door with fear. Fear is always there. Fear is always by your side.

[42:36] Matt Rodin: Yes.

[42:37] Khris Davis: And that's not a bad thing. It's an intelligent response to some things, right? Because it helps you unpack and process certain things, right? It's a filter. But like, it's always there. But you're walking through the door with it. And everything you do, everything. You get into a relationship, you're scared. Start a new job, you're scared. Go home to see your parents, you're scared.

[43:01] Matt Rodin: Uh-huh.

[43:01] Khris Davis: Okay. All the time. You're scared. Think about it. You think about it. But you're doing it anyway. You're still gonna go see your parents. You're still gonna get in that relationship. You're still gonna tell your person, hey, that hurt. You're still gonna, you know, you're still gonna have to come, you know, listen to the city. Or you won't, or you won't.

[43:15] Matt Rodin: Or you won't.

[43:15] Khris Davis: Or you won't. Or you won't. Goodness, Chris. Or you won't. Or you won't, you know. And then what? And then like there's no growth. You know what I mean? Like that's that, you know what? That's scarier to me.

[43:31] Matt Rodin: That's scary.

[43:29] Khris Davis: You know what I mean? I actually think that's maybe scarier for me.

[43:36] Matt Rodin: Yeah, it's terrifying.

[43:37] Khris Davis: There's a really good quote. I don't remember exactly how it goes from this book, Big Magic, that she basically writes this letter to fear, and she's like, fear, you can come on the road trip, you can sit in the car, you do not get to drive. You do not get to pick what's on the radio. You have no control, you are just a passenger. You are not going to be in charge of this in any way, shape, or form. You are more than welcome in this space. And I will love on you, but you don't get to be in control.

[44:06] Matt Rodin: You don't get to be in control.

[44:11] Khris Davis: Yeah, I like that. And that's what I was hearing you say. I was like, Dad, that's exactly what it is. That it's like, okay, can I accept that fear is here? And just continue to move forward and not let it control everything that happens. I can just hear it, accept it, thank it for trying to protect me.

[44:27] Matt Rodin: Right.

[44:32] Khris Davis: And then say, okay, well, I gotta do it anyway. I gotta do it, they made it. You know, thank you for whipping out your blades, you know, you're a swordsman.

[44:42] Matt Rodin: That's right.

[44:43] Khris Davis: You can put your knives away, it's okay.

[44:45] Matt Rodin: Yep, you know.

[44:46] Khris Davis: I always say, I always compare it to like Moana. I don't know if you're a Disney person, but Moana, you know, she's on the island, and the family's like, we don't leave the island. You want to leave the air and we don't go out to sea, you don't go out, we don't go there. We're safe. It's safe here. We just stay here, we mind our business, we stay here, it's all good. And she's like, yeah, but I gotta, I want to go out there. I want to know what's out there. And they're like, no, don't go. And she's like, I gotta go. And sure, the seas are rough, like it's tough out there, but having the faith and the courage to go do that, I think is imperative, you know, and it ends up helping everybody in the end, of course.

[45:28] Matt Rodin: Um yeah, but somebody gotta be the one to go past the reef.

[45:34] Khris Davis: Somebody has to be the one. And once one person goes past the reef, we know that we all can go past the reef. But if nobody goes past the reef because of one person's fear of that one thing that happened, because really what happened was what happened? Dad's friend drowned.

[45:51] Matt Rodin: That's right.

[45:51] Khris Davis: The dad, the king, her dad's friend drowned. Now nobody else can go out. Oh, cause her dad has made a, her dad's scared because he watched his homie die. Got a whole lot of stuff. It's not a great reason. I gotta be honest. It's not really, it's not a great reason. You know what I mean? I was like, wait a minute. I said, hold up. So everybody just go to just not leave all because you had a bad moment.

[46:24] Matt Rodin: But that's the real T.

[46:26] Khris Davis: That's the real T right there.

[46:27] Matt Rodin: Yeah, yeah.

[46:28] Khris Davis: Yeah, yeah. It is true.

[46:30] Matt Rodin: So, you know, in this exciting moment, this is a really exciting moment for you. It's a big culmination of I think a lot of work and a lot of time and a lot of energy. And I'm curious if there's anything that you're just like trying to remind yourself, or we've talked about a lot of those things, but is there anything specific that you're carrying forward that maybe was a lesson from being George from this process that you feel like now you are you're sort of sitting with, at least today.

[47:06] Khris Davis: At least today. Um, I think I'm still in that process because there's still so much happening around this moment and in this film. And I won't, I don't think I'll be completely, and I'm still doing so much work for it. So I don't think I'll be completely free to step back and look at the scope of everything until this movie is opened.

[47:33] Matt Rodin: Yeah, right.

[47:34] Khris Davis: And I have done my very last screening.

[47:37] Matt Rodin: That's right.

[47:38] Khris Davis: And I'm like far away done, and I'm like looking forward towards something else that I'll be able to really pinpoint what has stuck and what will go with me forever. I mean, what I can say to that though is I am forever changed as an actor. I'm forever changed as a person going through this experience. It was one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life.

[48:07] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[48:07] Khris Davis: And having to do constant cognitive reframing on a daily basis, with the amount of adversity that we faced further this, you know, really taught me a lot about my spiritual fortitude, my mental and emotional fortitude, how to create boundaries for those things, you know, and how to be of the business while still maintaining my artistic integrity. You know, so you know, I will always carry that with me. And like that really helped when I stepped into it, like it helped when it was a strange way to go into doing theater again because I, you know, I did Death of a Salesman after, like right after.

[48:54] Matt Rodin: So I had and I totally forgot initially how much like love.

[49:02] Khris Davis: Yeah, right, and you're not just alone in your trailer anymore.

[49:05] Matt Rodin: No, it ain't just you, it ain't just you anymore.

[49:08] Khris Davis: I was like, it took me a minute to adjust because I got the job during the pandemic. I had been in the pandemic the whole time. I got the job during the pandemic. Then I started the job during the pandemic. So then I finished the job. And now I'm coming into a space where we're rehearsing eight hours a day in this. And so I'm having to be reminded of what it's like to be in the rehearsal room on an energy level, right? Energetic level.

[49:39] Matt Rodin: So I'm like, oh, all these hugs, many child, man.

[49:45] Khris Davis: I was telling you how we've never in our land. What the hell? What you about? What's up? Well, it took me a couple of weeks to tone it down, and I was like, oh yeah, I'll just yeah, right.

[50:00] Matt Rodin: You get back to your gushy gooshy theater stuff.

[50:01] Khris Davis: Yeah, I get back to the gushy self, yeah.

[50:03] Matt Rodin: Yeah, I know.

[50:04] Khris Davis: It's so good though. I love the rehearsal room vibes are so, it's so nice, it's nice to be working in that kind of space.

[50:12] Matt Rodin: Yeah, um when everybody's showing up with love and like is excited to be there and wants to do the work, you know. Um, and it's not as isolating. I've heard that across the board that like I know that film and TV can be so isolating because you're in your trailer and then they say, okay, we're ready, and then you go, and then you're in it, and then you're just like, okay, thanks, and then you go back to your trailer and you're just like with yourself.

[50:34] Khris Davis: You know, actually, I actually prefer that because it keeps you focused on the work. And it doesn't distract you because it's easy.

[50:43] Matt Rodin: So people say it's isolating.

[50:45] Khris Davis: Uh-uh. It's very easy to get distracted. Somebody's always trying to talk, somebody's always fooling around, messing around.

[50:52] Matt Rodin: Oh, in the rehearsal room, it's all foolishness, it's all foolishness.

[50:56] Khris Davis: But you have four to eight weeks, eight hours a day to work on a thing. Right. Whereas here, we're showing up today, and everybody does their own separate work.

[51:06] Matt Rodin: Yep.

[51:07] Khris Davis: So if I'm here and I gotta be in a certain and you go over here and I'm chatterboxing with you, I'm no no no, man. So in a sense, the fact that it's so isolating, I think it's really helpful for some jobs, right? For why like if you were to be doing like improv comedy film, it might help to be like talking to everybody and fooling around. Just keep the energy going. But there are certain films where like the kind of energy you have to bring, you can't be pulled away from it.

[51:45] Matt Rodin: You kind of gotta hold it for it.

[51:46] Khris Davis: You have to hold it a little bit longer. That takes discipline too, you know.

[51:49] Matt Rodin: Yeah, it's hard.

[51:50] Khris Davis: Yeah.

[51:52] Matt Rodin: I'm so excited for you, man. This, it's the movie's great, and yeah, it's just um it's been it's cool to see um someone who I could tell that you put a lot of care and time and energy into every piece and part of it, you know, and that and there was and I could feel your spiritual self in it, you know.

[52:21] Khris Davis: It's that you fully, yeah, you just gave in, you gave over to the thing and let it move through you. And now it's, yeah, it's just, it's cool to witness that, at least for me. Um, it's, it's, yeah. Word feel I.

[52:39] Khris Davis: I appreciate that, but yeah, no, I really and I was so excited. That's what I'm so excited to talk to you because I was like, I just feel like you've got some good experience under your belt. You've had some good shit that you've done that and you've seen some shit.

[52:57] Matt Rodin: Yeah, I know.

[52:58] Khris Davis: I know and I was like, hmm. I was like, you can't have done that, and especially this movie. You can't have had to go through the physical and the mental piece of this without spiritual fortitude.

[53:12] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[53:13] Khris Davis: True.

[53:14] Matt Rodin: Um otherwise I think you'd be like a d I don't know, you'd be disheveled right now.

[53:18] Khris Davis: You, I don't even know.

[53:21] Matt Rodin: Yeah, no, yeah.

[53:23] Khris Davis: Yeah, I don't even know either.

[53:25] Matt Rodin: Yeah, definitely a lot of spiritual fortitude, a lot of spirituality, a lot of praying, a lot of meditating, you know, a lot, a lot.

[53:33] Khris Davis: Um on a daily basis. Sometimes more than once on a daily basis.

[53:39] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[53:40] Khris Davis: You know, and that was important.

[53:42] Matt Rodin: You know.

[53:43] Khris Davis: Yeah.

[53:44] Matt Rodin: I'm psyched for you, man. I appreciate you taking the time. This has been so, so awesome.

[53:49] Khris Davis: So good.

[53:50] Matt Rodin: Yeah, man, it was great, brother.

[53:53] Khris Davis: Thanks for listening.

[53:55] Matt Rodin: See you next time.