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[0:00] Matt Rodin: Hey, thanks for hitting play. Welcome to The Come Up. My name is Matt, and on this episode, a hilarious conversation with Leo Reich.

[0:08] Matt Rodin: Leo's solo show, Literally Who Cares, just completed a strictly limited engagement at the Greenwich House Theater off Broadway. And when we talked, it was the day before his very first performance here in New York. As you'll hear, lately, I've been really into the art form of comedy. So I was excited to ask Leo about his perspective on crafting a cohesive piece, who he's inspired by, and what it's been like to show up on stage and in the world as a queer 23-year-old. His answers and his show did not disappoint. I feel very lucky to have gotten a chat with him at this stage in his career, which feels like the very beginning of something very exciting. He's taking his show all over the world in the next few months, and I can guarantee this won't be the last time we see him here in New York. Okay, that's enough out of me for today. Without further ado, here is Leo Reich.

[1:07] Leo Reich: Wait, you start performances tomorrow.

[1:10] Matt Rodin: Yeah, that's actually so true. That's that's actually one of the most scary things I've ever heard said. But yes, that is that is true. I start tomorrow.

[1:17] Matt Rodin: Have you done any of this material in America before, or has is this the first time it'll be doing you'll be doing it here?

[1:22] Leo Reich: I have never done any material in America before. I have never so much as made someone crack a smile in America. This is the first. It's a big sw I have to say, it is a big swing to New York.

[1:37] Matt Rodin: You weren't like I'm going to Chicago or Miami or L.A. Let's just dive straight in.

[1:41] Leo Reich: Just go straight in the T-pad.

[1:43] Matt Rodin: Yeah, 100%. Wait, have you been to America before?

[1:49] Leo Reich: I've been. I visited a bunch. I've been to Yeah, this is this is like it's not my first time in New York. And I've seen comedy in New York before. So I feel like I've gotten a vibe.

[1:59] Leo Reich: Yeah, I get the vibe. I'm I'm getting, yeah, they're saying jokes, people are laughing. I'm like, I get it. Um so it's it I should fit in seamlessly. Um that's the idea. I sure hope so.

[2:11] Matt Rodin: I how so wait, how long have you been doing this show for?

[2:15] Leo Reich: This specific like work.

[2:17] Matt Rodin: So this show, yeah.

[2:19] Leo Reich: This this thank you for calling it a work. I I'm gonna refer to it as as a work now as well. My must my masterpiece. Um I also I feel like the the black turtle network wearing is really adding to a kind of you know, an an interview with the artist kind of vibe. I've been doing this since well, I really like worked it up to the Edinburgh fringe last year, which is the a festival in Edinburgh that that uh is all of August. So um, but I was working on it for a few months leading up to that, but then August last year was when I really started just every goddamn day. Same thing over and over and over. Same thing.

[2:56] Leo Reich: Yeah, I was talking to somebody about that the other day. Um that I so I'm a musician, and so I've been playing these like short sets for people, and I was like, man, I feel like I'm like I'm getting bored, I'm doing the same thing, same set over and over and over again. And I was like, I always feel like I have to bring new material. And my friend was like, Yeah, but that's like what like that's what comedians do all the time. They work the same set over and over and over and over again.

[3:24] Leo Reich: Which I like I guess I I knew, but I hadn't like thought about. I know, that's why it's so funny when when which isn't so much what I do, but like you go to comedy clubs and people are like, so the other day I was in the store, and you're like, What, nine years ago when you were I mean 400 years ago, or or even like know where you weren't, but you've never been to a store. You made that.

[3:50] Leo Reich: Oh, this just oh actually, here's the thing that just came to me. Like you performed this ten times tonight. Tonight crazy. If the most if most insane it makes you go nuts, like that to have to be that.

[4:03] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[4:04] Leo Reich: Yeah, to constantly be just just barefaced lying to people every night of your life.

[4:10] Matt Rodin: You've been working on the material for a couple months before Edinburgh. But what does that look like in terms of like building it out? You know what I mean? Like, how does that actually work and function?

[4:23] Leo Reich: Yeah, it's oh I I there were a lot of I did a lot of like work in progress shows where I'd just get up there for an hour and I'd have like a plan and a and a script, but but essentially vibing.

[4:38] Leo Reich: See where your brain is gonna take you.

[4:39] Matt Rodin: Yeah, yeah.

[4:40] Leo Reich: And and I mean just really uncomfortable to charge people for tickets to that. But that's what I did. Um and also I I have a director, the producer and stuff, so and and um stage manager that I would like talk to about it and we'd all work on it together and like like invite friends, they'd be like, This sucks. I'd be like, that's so true. Um, I'll do better next time.

[5:02] Leo Reich: Yeah, these different ways, you know, like so it's it was like a like anything, just like a constant um, you know, self-hatred sort of forcing you to work on your own material. So you don't go through the the shame and embarrassment of performing it again. It's like therapy, but you're making people pay you.

[5:19] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[5:20] Leo Reich: Yeah, for sure.

[5:21] Matt Rodin: For sure, which I think is actually really healthy and good.

[5:23] Leo Reich: Um for sure. And that's why I came, and that's why I come to New York.

[5:27] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[5:28] Leo Reich: Because you want that really expensive therapy. That's what you really were looking for.

[5:32] Matt Rodin: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Were you doing were by the time you hit Edinburgh, was the show like kind of locked, or were you still like it was still you were still working it?

[5:40] Leo Reich: It was pretty locked because this, I mean, it's not um it's a stand-up show essentially. It's like a comedy show, but it's also it's it's got like a a narrative, and it's got like different like bits and there's lighting cues and there's songs and that it's like a pretty um structured thing.

[5:57] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[5:58] Leo Reich: Um it's less of like a I don't like just do sort of like 10 minute bits and then be like, thanks for coming out, guys. It's like a it sort of builds in a way.

[6:06] Matt Rodin: Well that makes it sound so boring.

[6:09] Leo Reich: No, but no, but honestly, I was gonna say, like, I feel like that's and maybe I'm totally like just not educated, but it feels like in the last like 10 years, there's a lot more of that happening, right? Like even with something like I mean, even Hannah Gadsby, which is more that is stand-up in the sense that it's just like there's no songs, you know what I mean? It's not a lot of lighting cues.

[6:31] Matt Rodin: Yeah, yeah.

[6:31] Leo Reich: But there is narrative. I mean, obviously you get like a Mike Birbiglia, which is like super narrative, but like I just saw Kate Berlant's show. Um, there there's a lot, I feel like there's a lot of that going on where people that are doing comedy are like, no, I want to do something that's a little bit more well-rounded, you know what I mean? Or like Nate even that's like really, really yeah.

[6:57] Matt Rodin: Oh yeah, yeah.

[6:58] Leo Reich: Oh, I mean, all of those people, I mean, I I think that that it kind of came out of Edinburgh, the festival, because people people, you have to do an hour, and you have to make it like there's so many comics doing that hour for the whole month, night after night, and you have to make it feel more important than the other ones.

[7:18] Matt Rodin: Um so it just gets every year it's just gets more and more heightened.

[7:21] Leo Reich: And all of those shows like Nate was was a massive and uh Natalie did that the fringe and that was like a massive fringe show. And and Nanette as well was like a was it's like a the comedy festival circuit vibe.

[7:36] Matt Rodin: Um but yeah, that I think it is it is and I I think Mike Birbiglia also was was sort of inspired by um some British comics who were doing more sort of like narrative storytelling kind of shows.

[7:48] Leo Reich: It's definitely it's definitely yeah, it's it's funny seeing the cycles of it as well because I think after Nanette people were like, Oh, okay, so we can't really do the trauma thing anymore.

[7:58] Matt Rodin: Right.

[7:58] Leo Reich: So Right, that she she's capitalized on that one.

[8:01] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[8:02] Leo Reich: She's done, yeah, she's made a lot of money out of trauma, so what are we gonna do now?

[8:06] Matt Rodin: Um so I think in a way, but my but the show I'm doing is kind of a uh a response to that kind of vibe because you get in the afternoon, like immediately afterwards, you got a lot of people being like, uh my show's kind of like Nanette, except instead of being gay, uh it's about my dead dad, whatever, you know, that kind of thing.

[8:24] Leo Reich: Um it's so ridiculous, yeah.

[8:34] Matt Rodin: Time for right, exactly.

[8:35] Leo Reich: TED talk time.

[8:38] Matt Rodin: Um, and some of the stuff that people would try and like uh like just sort of shoehorn into being like actually really difficult um for them in their life would be like my parents actually almost got divorced once.

[8:52] Leo Reich: And it's like that's a 10-minute speech at the end of the show.

[8:55] Matt Rodin: Yeah, that's the trauma.

[8:56] Leo Reich: Are you kidding? Are you kidding? Or like some of my ancestors were Italian.

[9:03] Matt Rodin: And it's like, what what are you what are you talking about?

[9:05] Leo Reich: Um so yeah, I think there are there are a few shows now. I I think Kate, I mean I I haven't seen Kate Berlant's um off Broadway one. She did it in in London and I saw that, but I think that was quite a like rough um like work in progress version.

[9:19] Matt Rodin: I mean, she's the best Canadian in the world, of course.

[9:22] Leo Reich: Um, but but I think I as far as I can tell, that's kind of a parody of those those um very much so.

[9:29] Matt Rodin: Uh and it's yeah, and I think my I mean my show is also kind of a uh a parody like a sort of send up of those.

[9:36] Leo Reich: That's what I was gonna ask, yeah.

[9:38] Matt Rodin: Yeah, yeah. It's like a if I it's just yeah, the show is kind of um based off the fact that in 2020 I was gonna go to the fringe with an hour of stand-up storytelling comedy about how like my life is so hard and I've been a victim of homophobia.

[9:55] Leo Reich: Um is that true? Were you were you really gonna be?

[9:59] Leo Reich: That's true. Yeah, I was gonna do like a breakup show about like I had a really hard breakup and also plot twist, I'm gay the whole time.

[10:06] Matt Rodin: Um and everyone's crying, people crying in the crowd.

[10:09] Leo Reich: And I was like, this is gonna be this is gonna change lives. I'm really gonna make it a lot of people. And then the pandemic happened.

[10:15] Matt Rodin: Yeah, exactly.

[10:16] Leo Reich: Uh the pandemic happened, and I was like, in a way, thank God.

[10:19] Matt Rodin: But the pandemic in a way.

[10:21] Leo Reich: In a way.

[10:22] Matt Rodin: Um someone's gonna clip that up and it's gonna be awful.

[10:25] Leo Reich: Um, but the one good thing about the pandemic is that that it stopped me from doing that show at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival. And instead, what's ended up happening is that I the show that I'm doing is kind of um a parody of that original show, and like a parody of the of of the kind of person who would think that that was like an important thing to do.

[10:45] Matt Rodin: Which is like you to which is me.

[10:48] Leo Reich: It turns out.

[10:49] Leo Reich: Yeah, it's like a self-parody. If like a if like it's uh like a really harsh self-criticism.

[10:56] Matt Rodin: When when did the switch happen? Like when did you have the realization that you were like, wait a second, it's much more entertaining and funnier to parody this thing than to actually earnestly do the thing?

[11:07] Leo Reich: Well, I think I had that like classic pandemic experience of being like just locked in a room with your own thoughts and also just made very aware on a day to day basis of the extreme luck and privilege that I experienced since birth. And then and just sort of to contrast with that the kind of like uh self-indulgent, self-pitying um stand-up show that I was gonna perform, suddenly felt like so insane and funny.

[11:35] Matt Rodin: Um I just love the idea that you had this hour of material, like you'd worked in the show already.

[11:41] Leo Reich: Oh, it's in the show. There are bits of it in the show, but it's uh it's you've kind of I've kind of like got a I I I've managed to sort of wriggle out of responsibility for it by being like by sort of making fun of it in the show.

[11:55] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[11:55] Leo Reich: So in the show it's like it I'm kind of a character.

[11:58] Leo Reich: Um it's like sort of stand up, but it's like hype I'm heightened.

[12:02] Leo Reich: Um and you're you're kind of meant to be off footing. But a lot of like some of the anecdotes in the show I was I was performing in 2020 as just like straight up earnest anecdotal material.

[12:15] Matt Rodin: That's a funny thing to try to like sort out like that feels like that was in the show before.

[12:21] Leo Reich: Yes.

[12:22] Leo Reich: Yeah.

[12:23] Leo Reich: It's pretty obvious.

[12:24] Matt Rodin: It's obvious.

[12:25] Leo Reich: It's pretty obvious, I have to say.

[12:29] Matt Rodin: I so you had been to Edinburgh. You had been to the fringe before, though, before 2020.

[12:35] Leo Reich: I'd been I'd done sketch shows with friends. When I was at university, we'd go and do a s like a dumb sketch show for a month.

[12:43] Leo Reich: Um so I did that for three years.

[12:46] Matt Rodin: Oh my gosh.

[12:47] Leo Reich: And it was three years in a row. And it was always like it's always like the most intense, hellish nightmare, but also like the best um like month of anyone's life.

[12:58] Leo Reich: And then you end the month being like I'm never doing this again, and then sort of January rolls around, you're like, how am I gonna get a venue?

[13:04] Matt Rodin: Right.

[13:04] Leo Reich: Um Yeah.

[13:07] Matt Rodin: How does that even like how do I don't even know anything about I mean I know a couple people over here that have gone and done French shows or shows that have come over from fringe, but I it feels like it's so much more common like overseas that people are like, oh yeah, I go I go every year.

[13:23] Leo Reich: We get we we do a show every year.

[13:26] Leo Reich: It's less and less common because it's it's so expensive now to do it and people leave so much.

[13:30] Matt Rodin: Right because you self-produce, right, right, right.

[13:33] Leo Reich: And you have to pay so and the like even just rent and making flyers and stuff, and there are so many shows, tickets are so expensive. Food's so expensive, it's all just like insane.

[13:44] Leo Reich: But um, but that was that is definitely a culture of like um or which yeah, like that there has been a culture of like you go every year, you take your new show every year, and you try and have a good fringe, and then it can if it goes really well, then you never know.

[14:02] Matt Rodin: You're straight to the top.

[14:04] Leo Reich: Yeah, yeah, baby. Straight to New York.

[14:06] Matt Rodin: Um Straight to New York. Here you are.

[14:09] Matt Rodin: So wait, so you were doing comedy before you were doing stand-up though. So like you had done doing sketch and in college and stuff like that.

[14:16] Leo Reich: Um I was doing sketch.

[14:19] Matt Rodin: Were you doing stand-up at the time?

[14:21] Leo Reich: Or I was doing stand-up, but like, yeah, like much more traditional.

[14:28] Leo Reich: Like now, I I that stand up I do now is like very rarely about like actual stuff.

[14:39] Leo Reich: It's like that uh the stand-up in the beginning was very like confessional. It was like everything's gonna be true. I'm doing stand-up about like my relationships, about my sex life, about like and then at a certain point I was like, This is so crazy because I don't I'm I I'm not in a relationship and I don't have sex, and I like that nothing funny happens to me.

[15:06] Leo Reich: Do you know what I mean? Like constantly excavating, like excavating for laughter, like the one time I've had sex in the last six months or something. And it's like what at a certain point you just go like, what am I doing with what what's happening to my brain? Yeah, um that I'm doing. Scraping, scraping the bottom of the barrel of your life, yeah. Yeah, exactly. And and and the the gap, um the really like terrifying thing is sometimes like something bad will happen to you, and you really notice how quickly after it you go, maybe this could be something. Maybe this could be something. That's so interesting. And and some and some you start off in the gap is like maybe two weeks. Two weeks later, you're like, oh yeah, I uh that maybe that's actually funny in the end.

And then by the time you've been doing stand up for like a year, you're like, it's immediate. That feels like semi-healthy semi-healthy yeah pseudo healthy you know what I mean okay some what someone needs to rewatch Nanette oh my god like it's like I understand the processing I feel like is helpful but maybe it can be yeah yeah for sure for sure but I would literally wasn't having enough experience like there were no experiences searching out pain you're like searching out drama yeah right yeah just to just so you can have things talk about so now it's sort of about nothing am I selling it well it's kind of about it's really yeah it's kind of about nothing but so it's like a it's a character now it's m it's less earnest and now it's more of a character that you're playing which I guess all stand up is but it feels like now it's even more heightened I mean it is totally it's me but it's it's like a uh I guess it's like a it's like what I fear that I like um is in like a worse it's like a it's like you you know where you have a hangover and you're like thinking you can see yourself in the third person at the party drunk saying something you're like and you're like oh I I'm I'm maybe the worst person who's ever lived it's like that for an hour.

[17:17] Matt Rodin: That is so well said and I and now I'm thinking about other comedians and I'm like oh my god that's exactly what they're doing. It's like the worst version of themselves.

[17:30] Leo Reich: Yeah, because really, I mean that's that's the therapy of it is like you say the worst thing you've ever thought and then people laugh and you're like, oh wait, maybe it's fine that I'm like this. Um maybe that's what they mean when they're laughing at what I'm saying. They're like, oh yeah, keep going, keep doing keep doing that. If anything be worse.

[17:46] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[17:47] Leo Reich: And it's great. Yeah, it's very healthy. Dig deeper. Um and I wonder because I was thinking about this too the other day, that like in order to get up on stage, I've been seeing a lot more stand-up lately. And in order to get up and do that, there has to be a level of like self-belief or belief in yourself and confidence that is hard for me to really fathom. Like I it that to me, I know it I don't want to say like it's courageous or it's brave, because I feel like that's you can't.

[18:19] Matt Rodin: I think you you can, and I think you should.

[18:21] Leo Reich: I think you should. It would mean a lot to me if you did. I think you're brave. I really I do think you're courageous and brave.

[18:27] Matt Rodin: Um, but do you know what I'm saying? Like it feels like there there's this like confidence level, which I again I feel that feels like such an empty word in in what I'm trying to say, but it there you there is this like you have to be willing to just be like, okay, I I'm or at least somewhat believe like I'm good enough for people to listen to what I have to say.

[18:49] Leo Reich: The word I'm looking for is delusion, but also like there's a desperation and I think that's a good word for it. I think those are both really good words for it, too.

[18:58] Matt Rodin: Yeah, and I I think that there's also like I I mean there's there's something so thrilling about bombing on stage. And I think all every comic that I know, you know, you obviously hate double army hate bomb is so humiliating, but it's like it's incredible because there's something level I think anyone who does stand-up comedy kind of feels like what they deserve is to get on stage, say the thing that they think is the funniest thing in the world, and then for everyone to tell them to go to go die.

[19:25] Leo Reich: And that like that's that's the kind of like masochism, right, yeah, right it's a masochism that's like a death drive kind of thing where you where you're like I'm gonna get up there and I'm gonna say this stuff and no one's gonna get it and they're gonna hate me and you know what that's that's exactly that's that's kind of that's what I want right to me that's what I want from these people that's you every stand up has like du like bombed in a room of people and then come off stage and being like those people are fucking idiots oh my god I'm sorry Sword um no you can swear as much as you want okay that's that is that fine yes yes yes no we're not MPR it's really okay I I don't know about the culture in this country yet I don't know I said that I said the um I was on the phone to my friend obviously massive cultural difference the C word oh I I love the C word screaming I'm I'm on the phone to my friend screaming it down the phone ever every everyone in Greenwich Village and looking at me like I'm committing a hate crime it's and like I'm sorry can you not hear my accent it's fine for you to say this yeah can't you hear that's what it gives it gives me permission I've an intellectual listen to my accent I can say whatever I want don't you see my turtleneck literally yeah that's so that's so interesting though that like there is a level of like you or at least you have I guess to be I don't want to say successful but like in order to like get through it you there has to be some kind of part of you that wants to bomb.

[21:01] Leo Reich: Because if you don't want that, then you're kind of setting yourself up to fail.

[21:07] Matt Rodin: To see I also, I feel like you're being a comedian on some level, you're what you're doing is you're going, I'm an idiot. You're getting upstairs and being like, I'm the stupidest guy ever. And it that's the you the the um like you want people to not take you seriously, like a just like this fundamental human level.

[21:29] Leo Reich: That's a very weird thing to watch.

[21:30] Matt Rodin: Yeah, I'm so fascinated by the form.

[21:49] Leo Reich: Like, I'm so it's been so interesting seeing, and I've actually been seeing a lot of queer comedians recently, which has been really, really fun because I don't know, it feels I mean, as a queer person, it just like feels like nice to hear not even say myself represented, but like the community is like thriving. You know what I mean?

[22:13] Matt Rodin: Yeah, and we're funny people, we're funny, funny people.

[22:17] Leo Reich: Yeah. I was literally comedy show with my friend the other day, and it was a very straight lineup of comedians. And at the end, my friend turns to me and is like, I think all of these straight people have come here because when they go in for dinner, they don't laugh. And they come here to like get their laugh. Whereas we're laughing the whole time.

[22:40] Matt Rodin: We laugh a lot.

[22:43] Leo Reich: A lot. And then you come to the you come to the comedy show it to kind of scream more than anything.

[22:49] Matt Rodin: Right.

[22:49] Leo Reich: Yes. It's like a there's a that there's this sort of higher level of of like uh laughter that you access. But you know, a lot of the a lot of these people these uh straight people there, they're just they're just doing like a uh bargain basement kind of that's a good object.

[23:06] Matt Rodin: Chuck, a chuckle, right?

[23:07] Leo Reich: Yeah, right. Right.

[23:08] Matt Rodin: So you go to a queer show and it's like people just sort of I don't know, screaming out comedy songs and everyone in the crowd just like losing their mind.

[23:16] Leo Reich: And you and you can tell every audience who's straight and who's queer too. You can tell.

[23:21] Matt Rodin: I've performed to many straight people, uh shame to say, who uh truly because in Edinburgh especially, I was in in like a tiny little box, I could see every individual audience member's face the entire time.

[23:32] Leo Reich: Oh my god.

[23:32] Matt Rodin: And just you could tell when like a boyfriend's been dragged along or whatever, um, and just face is just like just like wide eyed, like why am I here?

[23:44] Leo Reich: Be out of here.

[23:45] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[23:46] Leo Reich: Like yeah. I'm just trying to break them by the end. It's kind of fun.

[23:49] Matt Rodin: I was gonna say it's kind of and it's fun to call that out, you know what I mean?

[23:53] Leo Reich: It's fun to be able to be like, you don't want to be here right now. You wanna be here, it's not for you, and that's fine.

[23:58] Matt Rodin: Right, and that's something it's not for you.

[24:00] Leo Reich: It's this this it actually isn't for you. But that's what I that's why I think I've been loving so many of these queer comedians lately, or even the ones that are um uh queer adjacent, yeah.

[24:14] Matt Rodin: Correct.

[24:15] Leo Reich: Correct. And that's why I'm so excited to be I mean, that's I I that's a big reason why I'm so excited to be in New York, because the the comedy scene here is gay even when it isn't.

[24:26] Matt Rodin: Um it feels like.

[24:27] Leo Reich: Or like especially the alt scene.

[24:29] Matt Rodin: Oh my gosh.

[24:30] Leo Reich: It's so massive. And in the UK, it's like not really the same way.

[24:38] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[24:38] Leo Reich: There's not. I I I mean, this it this is the thing that I'm most scared about, uh, but also most excited about here is that I feel like that the stuff that I'm doing uh comedy-wise feels like it very much fits into a scene that already exists. Whereas in the UK, I'm like, I'm I'm being freaky on stage. There they're going to be a good thing.

[25:00] Matt Rodin: Like, okay, so how would you define and this is a really this might be like the worst question?

[25:05] Leo Reich: Oh my god.

[25:06] Matt Rodin: How would you define that scene? Like, what is the quote unquote alt scene? What what what is that?

[25:11] Leo Reich: Oh, I I don't know. That's just like a style of it. I I I guess what I'm saying is like it in in the comedy show in the comedy shows that I do in the UK, I'm coming on stage, and literally something as simple as in glittery eye makeup and um a and like tight tiny knee shorts and big black boots. And people are like, oh my god. And people are like, what is this? Whereas if I come if I when I get on stage like that tomorrow, like in New York, people will be like, okay. Like what? Okay. Is this part of the bit? Like, or is this are you going somewhere after? Like it's so you have to try so much harder to make an impression or to to seem provocative in any way.

[25:54] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[25:54] Leo Reich: Whereas in in London, I I you know it it's it there's not this kind of like uh there's not the same level of um alternative cabaret like comedy.

[26:08] Matt Rodin: That's so interesting.

[26:09] Leo Reich: Because I feel like I'm I'm trying to think about th theater, because that's like really my main I mean we can do music too, but theater, I feel like I feel like there it goes both ways, and that like there are some shows that have come over from London that you're like, oh my god, this is so innovative and different, and the Americans are like eating it up because it's so like the off the sort of normal Broadway with a B. But at the same time, I feel like there are some productions that and I guess I'm saying the same thing that there are shows here that don't necessarily work here, but they go to London and people are like nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom.

[26:50] Leo Reich: Yeah.

[26:51] Matt Rodin: It's interesting.

[26:52] Leo Reich: I I mean I that's I I have watched that happen like in both ways.

[26:57] Matt Rodin: And I bought me on like a an on a more detached sort of uh sort of outside my own body way. I'm like, I wonder which one this show will be.

[27:05] Leo Reich: Right.

[27:06] Matt Rodin: I'm curious, right?

[27:07] Leo Reich: I just want to know.

[27:08] Matt Rodin: I guess we'll see.

[27:10] Leo Reich: We'll see if will people like this?

[27:12] Matt Rodin: I have no idea. Do you have like a two previews or is there like an official opening, or is tomorrow like this is it?

[27:18] Leo Reich: Tomorrow's the one preview, essentially, and then Thursday is the official opening.

[27:23] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[27:24] Leo Reich: Yeah.

[27:25] Matt Rodin: Do you know what I mean? Get them in. Just come on, let's go.

[27:29] Leo Reich: I still don't I still don't know the lines. I'm not used to the space.

[27:31] Matt Rodin: Get out in here.

[27:32] Leo Reich: You're a liar.

[27:33] Matt Rodin: I know you know the lines.

[27:34] Leo Reich: I know you know the lines. And this is not the last place you're doing it. You're going you're going you're going what? Australia?

[27:39] Leo Reich: God damn, Melbourne.

[27:41] Leo Reich: Yeah. I I have the most insane that schedule in the next until May is so crazy. I do the 26 shows in New York.

[27:48] Matt Rodin: And then I fly home to London.

[27:50] Leo Reich: I have three days off strictly limited engagement.

[27:54] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[27:55] Leo Reich: Only 26.

[27:56] Matt Rodin: It is.

[27:57] Leo Reich: It is. Sorry.

[27:58] Matt Rodin: Sorry.

[27:59] Leo Reich: Kind of fierce.

[28:00] Matt Rodin: Kind of fierce.

[28:01] Leo Reich: Kind of great.

[28:03] Matt Rodin: Um, yeah.

[28:04] Leo Reich: No, there's not gonna be an extension, you guys.

[28:06] Matt Rodin: There can't be.

[28:07] Leo Reich: Can't be.

[28:08] Matt Rodin: So gotta go to London.

[28:10] Leo Reich: Gotta go to London for three days.

[28:12] Matt Rodin: And then London for three days, then I do a week of shows in London, and then I have one day off, and then I fly to Melbourne, and then I do a month of shows there, and then I do a couple of shows in Sydney, and then it's May.

[28:22] Leo Reich: And I'm like, what?

[28:24] Matt Rodin: I'm gonna be I'm gonna be jet lagged as hell.

[28:27] Leo Reich: For sure.

[28:28] Matt Rodin: Are you are you tired of the show yet?

[28:32] Leo Reich: I've had a bunch of time off it. So I'm not right now.

[28:36] Matt Rodin: Okay.

[28:36] Leo Reich: Yeah. But I think by the time it hits sort of April 28th, and I'm doing my 300th show of the year at the Melbourne Comedy Festival to um for gay Australians. I I think that will I think that's gonna be like a low moment.

[28:51] Matt Rodin: You'll be like, okay.

[28:53] Leo Reich: Yeah. I do my I do my final show in Sydney to like three people. I'm like, I've done a hundred thousand performances of this show. I'm good. Which also the show is like just a uh a brutal character assassination of myself. So just to just to rent myself through that every day. Um yeah, it's gonna be fun.

[29:14] Matt Rodin: It's gonna be fun.

[29:16] Leo Reich: So this the doing this and then going on the road and doing I mean literally traveling everywhere. Is this for lack of a better phrase, like dream come true? Is this what you wanted to be doing, or is this what you want to be doing?

[29:31] Leo Reich: Like Yeah, uh yeah, it's total dream come true. I mean, especially especially this New York bit, which is so it's so weird that this has happened. Um, because it's it's I mean, it's very unusual. Um, and it's like uh it's a lot of things have to fall into place to yes visa wise and production company wise, especially like all of this stuff. It was it's like such a like uh They don't make it easy.

[29:59] Leo Reich: They don't make it easy. It felt so unlikely that it until the week that it was put on sale. Um so I'm just like thrilled. I'm also just like apart from anything, I'm like, how badly can it go? I've got an apartment. I've got a good free apartment in Greenwich Village. Right. Like yesterday I went to the G Plex until three AM and then I came home with a slice. Do you know what I mean? You're really living the New York queer gay life. The duplex still three AM. Oh no, my show's going badly. I'll see you at Marie's crisis. Exactly, right, yes. Like if you pads. That's on some level. And at some level, yeah. I mean, you know, wait for the sort of the brutal one star New York Times review for kind of throw my throw myself into the house.

Oh no, no, no, no. No, but it feels on some level, it's like I feel like I've already it's already I'm already I've already won. Yeah, I would say this is it everything else is a bonus. But that's good. I mean, that's a good perspective to have, it feels like. That's like a that's a healthy mindset to come into this with, it feels. This is purely me. I'm sort of saying this out loud so that I start to believe it. A hundred percent scream at myself in the mirror every day. Like you probably won't like me saying this, but like what you're doing is not easy. You know, like I like I I just I have so much I really do. I have so much respect for like like I said to you before, like the form and the art of comedy, because it's I just don't think it's very easy.

I to me it's like dramatic acting is like kind of easier than comedy. Like, yeah. I th do you know what I mean? It curveball. It's all not super hard. Yeah, okay, true, okay, true, true. I'll take that. True. It's not true. I mean, I what have I done today? I've had a turkey club in a dining dirt, and now I'm doing this. Yeah, right. And that's it. And then you have rehearsal the night. Kind of yeah, kinda. Just a run. Kinda. Yeah. Yeah. Will I give it a hundred percent? No. We'll see. Yeah, we'll see. Yeah, we'll see. No, because there's no audience there. Right. So you're like, I'm gonna find it in tonight. I'm not getting I'm not getting into makeup for a run. Forget it. I'm asking someone to go get me a water.

You know, it's very easy stuff. It's pretty simple. And all I had to do was like sort of, I don't know, write a couple of jokes about like how I'm a bitch. Like, great. Good, got it. The dream. Okay, but like were you always funny? Were you always? No, I'm barely funny now. I and I've tried so hard. I tried so hard for so many years. I was not funny at all. No, I I was a massive comedy fan. That was my deal. I was a massive comedy nerd fan. Nerd, comedy nerd. Yeah, like real freaky kind of. Okay, um tell me, like, give me what are the nerdy things. Like oh, I could I mean I I like have flyer the first time I went to Edinburgh was 2013, I think. Okay. I kept every flyer. I wrote a review of each show I saw with a star rating.

How old was I? It must have been like 13. No, 15. 15. Um and just obsessive. I saw Bo Burnham there, lost my absolute mind, started writing little comedy um like raps in the back of my like a Spanish textbook. Yes. At school. Like just truly like the worst stuff you've ever seen in your life. Offensive, terrible stuff. Um really bad. Like that kind of thing. Just going by myself to comedy shows like three, four times a week. Oh my god. Yeah. Or like with my mom. Like with just low. Like take me to a comedy show. Yeah, that was I mean, but yeah, totally. And all of those people have like fame. Oh, all the people we saw, like uh like four people in the crowd, um, are all so famous now. And they would then they would be on stage being like, Are you guys a couple?

And I'd be like, No, it's my mom. And I'm and also by the way, I'm 12. Like, just so weird. I did that for such a long time. I was I just went to see comedy and loved it so much that I was like, I would love to do that. So I it's really studied and very not natural. It's not like uh, you know, I didn't come out of the room just sort of just cracking. Cracking jokes. Because some people do, some people are naturally funny. You know what I mean? Pulling faces, yeah. Some people are naturally some people are really naturally funny, like pulling faces and doing little like they have like a physical thing. But um, I that again, that's I I hope part of what the show is is just like a you know, someone extremely desperate to be considered like a map like a uh kinedic genius, um, but having like no natural ability at all.

Um that that's that is the sell it, baby. Sell it, come on. Come on. Or just the one who's like watched a lot that you know that very cynical thing, um, which I think is so prevalent now, with where you see like an an some kind of artist like uh uh of any genre uh that is very clearly like their stuff is not coming from like an authentic uh place. It's coming from like uh I've watched a bunch of stuff that's popular and I've triangulated the most sellable version of like what I could produce. Uh you get it music all the time. That's exactly what I was gonna say was I feel like that in music all the time. Yeah. It's like, oh, this kind of stuff, this kind of kind of this could maybe go even be a TikTok sound.

Yep. Like and and it's just like the chorus over and it starts with a chorus, it's got the chorus over and over again. And it's just a chorus. It's just one chorus. You're like, okay, what is going on? But that that kind of perspective on creativity, I think is like simultaneously so sad, but also so funny. So funny to sit down and just start right like hmm, like with like pen pen behind your ear. You you walk up to the easel and you're like, what am I gonna create today? I guess a TikTok sound. Um I just think it's so funny. Okay, but it happens in comedy the whole time as well. I was gonna say, but isn't as in essence, like, isn't that what you do in essence? Yeah, yeah. You sit down at a laptop or your notes app on a phone.

Yeah. And you're like, and I yeah, what's what what what could I do at a comedy club? Record it like in shitty quality on the from the back of the room and clip it up. Yeah. Like, what could that be? And that's very yeah. Um, but I I think it's funny when people do that and then simultaneously sort of uh perform the idea that they're quite like sort of a creative genius or like a very like sincere earnest my art comes from deep within me. Because you get these people who are doing that sort of TikTok um stand-up stuff and then they'll come to the Edinburgh fringe with a show about like I don't know grief or whatever. It's like maybe pick one. Do you know what I mean? Pick a lane why don't you yeah pick a lane.

And yeah that's that's also what the show's about is like someone so who's so clearly very focused on um immediate commercial success and and hopping on whatever trends having no real uh like artistic outlook or um beliefs or opinions and just trying to just just churn out something that's gonna like do the numbers. I you know I I I hate to say this but also you know what I'm gonna be vulnerable for a second and tell you that I I what I was gonna say was I think that's really prevalent today. And then I was like I kind of feel that way sometimes for sure. And I was gonna say like is that in you too like that like I I feel like it's inescapable in the culture we live in now. Well like yeah I mean I I all of the stuff that that is in the show is total self par like that it all comes from like stuff that I recognize in my I I was hate to be one of those comics who's like doing a satire of young people these days like from a distance.

Right. You know, it's it's all just like um I do this thing that I think is so weird and ironic and funny and kind of like callous and and um you know like uncomfortable. Yeah. Um I totally like you you the thing that really gets me is um is well actually in the run up to this New York show even like the the posts that I have done the the the self-promotion that I have been which has been which is the strength which is well said that is that does take some strength, honey the DMs that I have been sending to uh to like uh someone verifies that's another that's another level. Yeah, no, that's another level. No, but it's like and but then but then you're like you have to do it on some there's there's a there's a part of you that's like well I do need people to come.

Yeah, I do it is necessary, but also it's so bleak. It's yeah. No, it's so bleak. To put a quote from uh from a review of your own show on your own Instagram story. You've done I will say I'm doing one today as well. I have to do a post today. Like there's a there's like a whole little r timetable right up to the show and you have to do a post. But that is like I will say I I've been very impressed by how you by content. Yes, by your thing, because there is this line that uh it is like self-promotion, but also self-degradation, you know what I mean? Yeah, it has I I feel like thank god because of what the show is, there's a level of a get out jail free card where where uh at any moment I could turn around and be like, that's actually the character speaking.

Um, so that's not me. So don't worry, you guys. I'm actually very humble, down to earth kind of guy. I would never post a glowing review to my own Instagram. That's actually the the parody character. Yeah, right, right. Yeah. And also, I I guess because some of the reviews are like quite funny in themselves. That's been helpful. Like to the the because the show is essentially like um, you know, an hour of uh spent that spending an hour with like one of the worst people you ever met in your life. Like I'm all the reviews are like the opening paragraph is like Leo Wright is the most shallow um narcissistic privileged gay freak you've ever met. And that's that's been fun to sort of like pick out the worst.

Oh my god, it's been so those are just like throw them up there. Yes. Yeah, I just trash. You're like five stars. Yeah, right. Right. So it's funny. But but it's good. But it but it it feels like, and you correct me if I'm wrong here, it feels like building something like a sh a piece or a show like this. I know you love like a a piece. Um I love that like this, it it is maybe helpful in not falling into the trap of wanting to create viral clippable content. Yeah, I mean that the it has been on the several level kind of annoying because sometimes people will be like, oh, do you want to do this show where I would do five minutes? And I'm like, well, not I yes, but also no, because none of it massively makes sense outside of the context of the show.

Right. That that I'd have done a couple of TV spots in the UK. Like 10 minute or five like chunks. Yeah, just like little chunks. Yeah. And it's always so funny because it's impossible to get across the kind of um the the sort of persona in the same sort of flesh out way. So it becomes a much more much simpler, more like brutalized version of what I I hope that I'm doing in the longer show. Um stuff that that hopefully over the course of an hour becomes ironic if you just see like if you just see the joke on its own, it's like, oh, just is this what you actually think? I I did a I did some jokes on there's some jokes in the show about like um just like taking the piss out of old people essentially like old the older generation whatever um and hopefully in the show it's like slightly cleverer than this, but but when it I did those on a TV show and I got like I got like loads of replies being like this is just ageist.

And you're like you don't really aging I'm like no I'm mocking myself, you guys. You're not deep enough to understand the butt of the joke. Uh yeah. Which is always you always know you're a good comedian um when you blame the audience. And you can you can take that's a tip for free. Thank you. If you're starting out, anyone and anyone listening is if you're starting out, always blame the audience. Always always on them. It's always on them. Yeah. And saying that as a joke, I do do that. Yeah, I just do like I'm completely serious in a way. Um so you're not funny in real life? You're not, you don't think No. Is that not coming across? I I feel like I know I'm I'm alright. I'm like a chill and yeah, you're like, yeah, yeah, it's it's chill, right?

Right, right. Right. Yeah, I'm I'm okay. I only ask because like I grew up in a house where my family was like, you're not funny. Really? No. They were like, your brother is funny. He's funny, but you are not funny. And so there is like an internalized belief that's like, oh, I I don't have any comedic value. I don't have you know what I mean. I don't have any like and so when I if I'm ever doing anything where I'm like working for laughs, like it was a comforting to hear you say, like, I'm working for it. Like I am really like squeezing as much as I can because I don't believe internally that I have comedic yeah. You know what I'm saying? A hundred percent. I I I'm sometimes so skeptical that anyone feels like that, but they they do, I think.

But I I don't know. No, I'm I I I agree. I was never I was never funny, like I was never the funny kid. I was like very shy, like um I was very shy for most a bit, and then and then at a certain point was just like oh, then quite mean.

[45:00] Leo Reich: That's it, turns like that.

[45:02] Matt Rodin: Yeah, that's a pipeline.

[45:03] Leo Reich: That's a very common pipeline.

[45:05] Matt Rodin: Totally.

[45:05] Leo Reich: Yeah, that's kind of a gay experience, I guess.

[45:08] Matt Rodin: Yeah, you're very shy and then very mean, very mean.

[45:13] Leo Reich: And then you sort of find a middle ground, which is funny.

[45:16] Matt Rodin: Um, but then you either go into marketing or comedy.

[45:19] Leo Reich: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[45:20] Matt Rodin: That's it.

[45:21] Leo Reich: Or in my case, kind of both.

[45:23] Matt Rodin: Yeah, right.

[45:24] Leo Reich: Yeah, a lot of publicity for my end.

[45:27] Matt Rodin: Uh yeah, I don't know. I just I think that um the funny thing is there are so few people who are going, I just naturally feel so funny.

[45:42] Leo Reich: Funny all the time. I'm not trying at all. I think that to like it whenever anyone says something funny is the result of like the biggest act of like effortful desperation um which is what's so that's why I love it so much is like it's such a vulnerable thing to do to put so much effort yes in and making someone laugh is like so hard that you have to really try and that's such a that's that's such like a freaky thing to do especially in a casual conversation it's trying to make people laugh yes so crazy yes I love it and love it when people do it it's like some sometimes a defense mechanism and sometimes it's yeah yes I met some new I I mean could sometimes be totally unbearable when people are doing it you're just like please stop oh my gosh chill out yeah I yeah I was hanging out with some people yesterday who I'd never met before after a show and I was with my friend we were we were just like you know riffing for want of a better word and I and it's that there's something so thrilling about everyone everyone's just like okay yeah we're gonna really try and be funny now like for this little bit of the conversation let's just like really uh put ourselves out there and just like and see what works.

[46:49] Matt Rodin: Yeah right so there's something so sweet about it.

[46:51] Leo Reich: So it's like little kids like um play and pretend.

[46:55] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[46:55] Leo Reich: Where you're like we all have to commit to this otherwise it's gonna be really embarrassing.

[46:59] Matt Rodin: Right for all of us.

[47:00] Leo Reich: For everyone do it.

[47:02] Matt Rodin: Yeah we just met and we're actually building a world together that's what I was saying.

[47:08] Leo Reich: I was sobbing in the corner. I wasn't contributing I was just sobbing crying being like this is so beautiful.

[47:12] Matt Rodin: Yeah you're like other community community coming together in this way.

[47:15] Leo Reich: That is me that is me.

[47:17] Matt Rodin: That's that's me.

[47:18] Leo Reich: That's the cringe in me. Is that I'm I'm the person in the group where I'm I'm not afraid to admit. I'm the one that I'm like, you guys, this is so fun.

[47:26] Matt Rodin: Yeah if you're you the guy who like after the laughter died out and you'll you're like guys, we should start a podcast.

[47:34] Leo Reich: Well, I mean it speaks for itself.

[47:37] Matt Rodin: I mean, look around.

[47:38] Leo Reich: It really, it really, really does.

[47:40] Matt Rodin: And and also, you know, like I on the other end of that spectrum is like, and again, this is why I have so much admiration, is because it's like math to me.

[47:49] Leo Reich: It's like, yeah, it is so calculated.

[47:52] Matt Rodin: I mean, sure, there's the riffing that happens, and like there's that's a whole other sort of camp, but when it comes to like building a show or or or a five-minute set, it is like math that it's like you need to know the beats and the timing, because if you say the quote unquote punchline, or you tell the story in a different rhythm or pacing, the laughs are gonna fall in different places.

[48:15] Leo Reich: Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[48:17] Matt Rodin: It's about if that's there's something sort of mysterious, kind of there's this the mystical vibe, that's it.

[48:23] Leo Reich: It's very nice.

[48:24] Matt Rodin: I I don't know that um you can you can you can really dive deep into that kind of stuff.

[48:30] Leo Reich: People write to you about where does laughter even come from, man? Is it maths? Is it just God? You know, that kind of yeah, that's yeah, a lot of that.

[48:38] Matt Rodin: That's a lot of that out there.

[48:40] Leo Reich: That's me. I I mean I don't hate it, I don't hate it, but but I think uh if you're a comic and you start going down that um if you start thinking too much about it, it it's a it's a really good way of making yourself the least funny person you've ever lived.

[48:55] Matt Rodin: Right.

[48:55] Leo Reich: If it gets too complicated, you see, people with the maths angle, like they'll there are comics who have like the maths brain going, and then we've got to end on a hard consonant because hard consonants are punchy and funny.

[49:09] Matt Rodin: Oh no, no, no.

[49:10] Leo Reich: Okay, uh what?

[49:12] Matt Rodin: Like, what are you talking about?

[49:13] Leo Reich: No, are you okay you you know the rule of you that there are all of these words for the different kinds of jokes where you like read Freud about it or whatever um and it just it doesn't it just doesn't add well no just on the on the level of the material it won't end well perfect okay two questions have you ever watched youtube videos or read books on comedy and like the art of comedy and the form and shape of comedy in your yeah in your studying and education yeah I did I did an English degree and I I went hard on um on some comedy stuff.

[49:50] Matt Rodin: Yeah I I did like a paper on it.

[49:52] Leo Reich: It was it was fun.

[49:54] Matt Rodin: It was fun but it was also like I don't know what the I I don't know what the hell's going on here.

[49:58] Leo Reich: That's what everyone said if you read all the theory it's like that a lot of uh most of it is just going like I don't know what the hell's going on here or someone will come up with a theory of like when people laugh it's actually about the juxtaposition of uh a big idea coming into contact with uh uh aspect of daily life uh and then and then it'll be like okay that kind of makes sense and then but it'll be footnote apart from in all of these examples like all of these a hundred thousand examples where it's not that you're like okay like so right so you don't know but and no and it's it's kind of nice that I that it's quite uh sort of a rare mystery yeah um but yeah I have done it I again comedy nerd massive like I'm I'm reading the interviews I'm I'm listening to the I'm listening to the I'm listening to the podcast.

[50:47] Matt Rodin: You're listening to the podcasts.

[50:49] Leo Reich: I'm listening to the podcast where people are like, so the thing about craft is that you know, I'm I'm doing that.

[50:54] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[50:55] Leo Reich: For sure.

[50:55] Matt Rodin: For sure, for sure, for sure.

[50:57] Leo Reich: I think it's I think it's fun, and I especially if you're like I said, like you said, like if you're a fan of comedy, if you're a a nerd about comedy, then that is like delicious.

[51:05] Matt Rodin: That's like really, you know.

[51:08] Leo Reich: I think that the you get to a point though where you're where you're like, um if you if you let other people are actually real like the really good comics, I think, you'll listen to their their episode of the podcast where they talk about their craft.

[51:21] Matt Rodin: Uh-huh.

[51:21] Leo Reich: And it it will come down to the same thing, which is I don't know, Matt, I just have like an intuitive sense of like I I I'll just sort of see notice something be like, that's kind of funny.

[51:31] Matt Rodin: And that's it.

[51:31] Leo Reich: You're like that. That's all it is.

[51:33] Matt Rodin: And and the the there's something very telling about the the stage of your comedy life where you where you're reading all the stuff, you're listening to all the the interviews and stuff, you're really just trying to like crack the code.

[51:46] Leo Reich: It's like it's it's so um it all the signs are pointing to you're not that funny yet.

[51:52] Matt Rodin: Like you don't know, you just can't see the stuff.

[51:55] Leo Reich: Like you're you're not you don't really you're not really having a uh you're not following your intuition, you're not sort of um don't have the confidence in your own sense of humor.

[52:04] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[52:04] Leo Reich: Uh so you're trying to like externalize that and be like, so the maths of it is if I say this and then I do the switch and then I do the and then I do a rhyme, then that's gonna hit hard and everyone will love me.

[52:15] Matt Rodin: And it's like, well, no, obviously not.

[52:17] Leo Reich: And then there's a turn for some people, I imagine, that happens that you do start trusting your intuition and and you don't necessarily need all that.

[52:27] Matt Rodin: Well it's like the awful the all the the nightmare of of any um creative uh like of trying to like sort of follow the footsteps of any like creative people that you like is that you'll be like, how did this person come up with this sort of groundbreaking and uh uh individual approach to the the genre that I am trying to be a part of?

[52:51] Leo Reich: It's like by well, it's it's not by copying someone.

[52:51] Matt Rodin: Right, exactly.

[52:57] Leo Reich: It's not by studying, unfortunately.

[52:57] Matt Rodin: Yeah, so that's that's so true.

[53:00] Leo Reich: That's so interesting and so true that it's like it there you have to sort of release it at some point.

[53:00] Matt Rodin: You have to sort of like let it go in order to.

[53:06] Leo Reich: Yeah, to be like genuinely good, or you could just be like me and you could really like triangulate hard.

[53:12] Matt Rodin: You'd have like watch a lot of stuff, you watch a lot of stuff, you should like take a little bit of some other stuff and then and then and then you you sort of pretend that that's like a part of the show.

[53:21] Leo Reich: Right, right, exactly.

[53:22] Matt Rodin: Right, right.

[53:22] Leo Reich: You can't do that.

[53:23] Matt Rodin: Yeah, you're like, I see the point of it.

[53:24] Leo Reich: The point of the show is that it's not actually uh the genius.

[53:28] Matt Rodin: That's like the point of it, and that's why it's so clever.

[53:30] Leo Reich: Interesting, yeah.

[53:31] Matt Rodin: Like you turn it on its head, yeah.

[53:33] Leo Reich: Yeah, and everyone's everyone's clapping.

[53:35] Matt Rodin: And there's a lot of trial and error, too.

[53:36] Leo Reich: I mean, that's the other thing, especially with comedy is that and I find with music too that there's a lot of you, there's a lot of trial and error.

[53:42] Matt Rodin: Like you've to you have to bomb a little bit in order to I that's what's so I find it very the idea of doing music so scary because how do you know if they liked it?

[53:53] Leo Reich: You don't by how much they applaud, like not really, you know what I mean?

[53:57] Matt Rodin: Like you're like, oh I need to tell you this, they're gonna applaud.

[54:00] Leo Reich: That's right, exactly.

[54:01] Matt Rodin: They're gonna applaud because they feel they feel they like oh he did oh god.

[54:06] Leo Reich: I've done I've done I've bombed harder than you could ever imagine.

[54:09] Matt Rodin: Then still a fraud at the end, right?

[54:11] Leo Reich: But they don't laugh.

[54:12] Matt Rodin: But they don't laugh, but they do not laugh.

[54:14] Leo Reich: But in the songs, they're not meant to laugh, they're meant to watch.

[54:17] Matt Rodin: Right, right?

[54:17] Leo Reich: Exactly.

[54:18] Matt Rodin: How do you quantify that?

[54:20] Leo Reich: The whoops at the end.

[54:21] Matt Rodin: You're like, when you depending on how the the level of woo-woo, you know what I mean?

[54:26] Leo Reich: Like no, not terrifying not a good gauge.

[54:28] Matt Rodin: Like, like there's nothing.

[54:29] Leo Reich: I would think that about like um like films as well.

[54:32] Matt Rodin: Uh, where you're like you're watching you're you're at the premiere of your movie, you're on like a director, you're like looking around, like did you love the the subtle texture of that shot?

[54:43] Leo Reich: I'll never know.

[54:44] Matt Rodin: Did you like the cinematography of that moment?

[54:47] Leo Reich: I will never know about that.

[54:49] Matt Rodin: I guess like I'll read maybe you read the review and you're like, well, the guardian liked it.

[54:55] Leo Reich: So I guess that means everyone likes it.

[54:56] Matt Rodin: I guess that means everyone likes it.

[54:58] Leo Reich: I don't know.

[54:58] Matt Rodin: Don't go read Rotten Tomatoes.

[55:00] Leo Reich: So last question is who are you who do you love?

[55:03] Matt Rodin: Like, who are you loving right now?

[55:05] Leo Reich: What like what comedians out there or acts in general, you know, are doing stuff that you're like really, really into that's a great question.

[55:13] Matt Rodin: Also, great question for Valentine's Day.

[55:15] Leo Reich: Who am I loving right now?

[55:16] Matt Rodin: Oh wow, I didn't even mean to do that.

[55:17] Leo Reich: Yes, I did.

[55:18] Matt Rodin: It had no one, but also uh yeah, uh yeah, comedy-wise, so many people.

[55:23] Leo Reich: That's uh yeah, again, that's why I'm so I'm so excited to be here because all of my favorite people cable ant is like to me the best the best comedian in the world, so great.

[55:35] Matt Rodin: Um life-changing experience to watch of uh Cat Cohen, who's just that she's just she's just done a UK tour, actually, which is it feels weird that that I'm in New York and she's in Birmingham or whatever.

[55:48] Leo Reich: Um yeah, she's great.

[55:51] Matt Rodin: Uh so so good.

[55:53] Leo Reich: Um I'm I still my my 15-year-old self is desperate to say Bo Burnham.

[55:58] Matt Rodin: Um, and be uh the most obvious person of all time, of course.

[56:03] Leo Reich: Um uh loads of people though, uh Roy Scovell.

[56:07] Matt Rodin: I really like Charlie Bardet.

[56:09] Leo Reich: Do you know him?

[56:09] Matt Rodin: He's really funny.

[56:11] Leo Reich: Um really funny sounds like really funny writing about running thing if you've heard of such a thing um analog uh but uh uh who else suddenly lost for for names meg stolter obviously um friend you know what i mean friends of yours that you love that you're like oh this person is is talented yeah oh oh friends in the in yeah in the like uk scene for sure um check out ana magliana she's amazing um check out bella hall check out Lara Ricot she's over here at the moment she's really really funny she won the best newcomer award in Edinburgh Sam Campbell who won the like the main person the main show award he's so funny they were my flatmates in Edinburgh that's they're hilarious um they'll be out here soon I think I mean I think Sam's planning to come out for a bit as well um yeah loads of people loads and loads of people I love comedy man I'm I'm so I'm a I'm a fan I'm a fan of the top me too I'm not bored of it some some comics will just absolutely nothing worse to them than going to see a comedy show and I'm I'm sucking that stuff when it's good it's so good and guess what when it's bad that's even better that's even better to me I would I would pay twice as much to watch someone right right I love it I love that stuff it is that it makes me feel good about myself I was gonna say yeah right it does but it's also like the the really nice thing about Edinburgh actually um and actually just that's a a good sort of topper to saying all those people is that I have seen every single one of those people I just mentioned bomb um in my life like total silence bomb and there's that it's so good.

[58:00] Matt Rodin: That's the the that's my if I had one bit of advice for anyone who's like too nervous to get on the stage blah blah blah is if you go and see your favorite comedian enough times you will see them bomb and it's thrilling it's like incredible.

[58:19] Leo Reich: I'll never yeah I'll never you know K Balamp playing to absolute silence in a in a tiny closet in Edinburgh.

[58:26] Matt Rodin: I could not want anything more.

[58:29] Leo Reich: That is so and I mean it's way funnier as well than me screaming in the corner like a freak in my like quote t-shirt, being like hey, yeah, but um but really like total like just blank faces.

[58:44] Matt Rodin: Yeah, wow.

[58:45] Leo Reich: And you just go, oh okay, so this will happen.

[58:48] Matt Rodin: Like if you do stuff something that's really good, not ever be that's not enough.

[58:52] Leo Reich: That's never enough for everyone.

[58:54] Matt Rodin: Yeah, it's never it's never enough.

[58:56] Leo Reich: Never enough.

[58:57] Matt Rodin: That's that's the energy I'm taking into this run.

[58:59] Leo Reich: Right.

[58:59] Matt Rodin: Some people won't like it, and you know what?

[59:01] Leo Reich: That doesn't mean I'm not a genius.

[59:03] Matt Rodin: Right, exactly.

[59:03] Leo Reich: It just means that uh even if you're a critic's pick, it just means you got more to go.

[59:03] Matt Rodin: Got more.

[59:10] Leo Reich: It's never enough.

[59:11] Matt Rodin: It's not on me.

[59:12] Leo Reich: It's not it's not my responsibility.

[59:13] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[59:14] Leo Reich: Do you know what I mean?

[59:15] Matt Rodin: I'm not responsible for making a show that people like I'm just there to do the thing.

[59:20] Leo Reich: Yeah, I don't want to go through the emotional labor of making jokes that people laugh at.

[59:25] Matt Rodin: No, okay.

[59:26] Leo Reich: Forget it.

[59:26] Matt Rodin: This is for me, don't you understand?

[59:28] Leo Reich: Yeah.

[59:29] Matt Rodin: Well, I'm psyched for you, and I I'm I I can't believe you start tomorrow.

[59:35] Leo Reich: I can't believe it's me neither, actually.

[59:38] Matt Rodin: And and I could I ask one thing that you stop saying that.

[59:46] Leo Reich: Thanks for listening.

[59:48] Matt Rodin: See you next time.