This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Leah Walsh: Hi, and welcome to The Compass, the podcast documenting the struggles of life as an artist. I'm Leah Walsh. Hi, everyone. This is my final episode of The Compass. I am the guest today, my dear friend Kim Miller, who is a wonderful visual artist and artist in so many ways. She's responsible for the Compass cover art as well, is interviewing me. And right after we recorded, I just had such a sense of peace and realized that, of course, she was the perfect person to interview me, to help me wrap this up, because we've honestly been in conversation about these topics our entire adult lives since we met at 17 going to college together. So thank you, Kim. Thank you to Frankie. Thank you to Brendan Spieth, Monic Choksi.

Thank you to the Broadway Podcast Network. Please continue to listen to the archives on VPN or on iTunes. Share with friends. Please reach out to me in real life. Let's get coffee and continue these conversations. I'm so grateful for your presence, to all of you who have shared your stories, and all of you who have listened. I'm so grateful. You'll hear it all. You'll hear it all in my conversation with Kim. Make your own work. Take deep breaths. And I hope you enjoy the 186th and final episode of The Compass.

[1:29] Kim Miller: Well, I guess I should introduce myself. I'm Kim Miller. I am not the host of The Compass podcast. I am a friend of Leah's and longtime supporter and listener for The Compass. And I'm excited to be here. And today I get the honor of interviewing Leah. She's interviewed so many of you listeners over the years and so many creatives. And I am just so excited to be able to talk with Leah and ask her some of the questions that she's asked all of you and a few questions that maybe she hasn't asked or been asked. So I'm going to start with a classic. What do you do to try to keep from going to the dark side as an artist? And what is the dark side for you?

[2:13] Leah Walsh: So these days, the dark side for me has been manifesting a lot as anxiety, just massive amounts of anxiety, especially since the pandemic started. And it's been like in a much more tangible, like physical way, like panic attack, present throughout the day kind of thing. So that's been very new. In the past, and related to my artistry, there's been some anxiety, but I would say going down that road of comparison or just being really negative self-talk, doubting yourself, you know, that feeling of being a failure or saying like, were the decisions that I made the right ones? Like I'm not going down the road I envisioned, all of those things that we all do occasionally and that you would never let your best friend do to themselves.

But I can definitely go down those roads. And I don't go down them as much anymore. It's interesting because right now I haven't been acting much. I've been doing the day job thing since we decided to have a kid about four years ago. So I've been kind of on a hiatus and it has been easier for me not actively auditioning to not go down those roads, even though in some ways I've had those moments of like, oh my gosh, what am I doing? You know, I want to be acting. It's not like I've made the decision to give it up for the rest of my life. But not having that stress of the constant job interview that is auditioning and the constant, what feels like constant judgment and approval or non-approval if you don't get the job has really lifted a lot of that for me.

And I'm able to kind of go to that more zen place of, which sounds so simple, but it's easy to forget, of just like I'm worthy as a human being. I'm worthy in all the ways because I'm a human being, not because I have a certain kind of success in the eyes of others as an artist.

[4:51] Leah Walsh: Which is, it's easy to lose sight of when you're so intently, intently focused on climbing a certain ladder or particular goals. And I'm sure a big part of that too is like, since I've taken this hiatus, I've also become a parent, which has obviously changed a lot of things in my life and a lot of focuses and perspective as well, which I'm sure contributes to it. But as far as, yeah, not going to those dark places, I think I'm just taking better care of myself. I'm slowing down a lot. I, as I've had many people on this podcast talk about, I've recently started an anti-anxiety medication, which has made a big difference. I feel like has like slowed down my mind enough to be much more aware of being in the moment of what my body is doing.

I've had so many people on this podcast talk about how important meditation has been for them over the years, and I've never really done it consistently. I still don't do it consistently, but I've been able to now, sometimes, I've been able to do it consistently. Now, since starting this medication in November, I'm much more aware of my breathing, of the physical, I'm not sure how to articulate it, but I'm much more able to stay in the moment, which is kind of like a type of meditation. I also just took up crocheting, which I find very meditative. That's been helping a lot with anxiety, having something like that to do.

[6:43] Leah Walsh: Yeah, something really tactile where you can see the progress is really rewarding. I think with auditioning, in some ways, that work is so existential. You have nothing to show for all of the work you put into an audition, oftentimes, because the statistics just work out that there's no way to ever book everything you audition for. You're putting all this work in and have so little to show in some ways. With something as tactile as craft work, you have something incredible to show for your time investment. Right at this moment, that's all I want. That's all I want right now is to crochet things and see them growing in front of me, have a finished product at the end, have something I'm doing. I want to bake things. I want to make things. I want physical things. I want to run. I want to create things in that way right now. That is my desire.

[7:45] Kim Miller: Desire. It sounds like your practice has really morphed into being in your body. It's interesting because you talked about some of the physical things that have been happening with stress, like panic attacks and things. Then it sounds like the way that you're balancing that is by really being in your body.

[8:02] Leah Walsh: It's what I want all the time. I think especially right now, when I've been at this day job, which blah, blah, blah. Footnote, I'm very grateful for this job. It got us through the pandemic. I got my maternity leave through this day job. Blah, blah, blah. Grateful. Gratitude. Paycheck. But I'm just sitting at it, looking at a computer all day, and it drives me insane. All I want to be doing is being out in the world, walking and using my body to create or to move or to feel alive. Instead, I'm curling up in a chair in very weird configurations all day. I'm like a cat. I have to start going back to the office a couple days a week, starting next week. I'm like, I'm going to have to sit like a normal person, so people don't think I'm insane. That'll be a challenge.

[8:58] Kim Miller: Are there artistic pieces, whether it's music or writing or shows or artwork that you come back to time and time again as a place of comfort when you're in those dark places?

[9:17] Leah Walsh: Yes. Just Kids by Patti Smith. Our dear friend, Kim and I, our birthdays are right next to each other. Our dear friend, Emily Fisher, gave us both that book when it came out, and that has become so important to me. I've reread it so many times, especially living in New York. It's nostalgic for a time that we never saw, basically. It's so beautiful, and she has such a unique outlook and practice. Her love for Robert Mapplethorpe, it's just a beautiful book. This year, I'm forgetting the name of the album now, but the new Brandy Carlile album I've listened to over and over and over. I listen to so many podcasts. I forget sometimes to come back to music, which I wish that was my main thing. I know you love music so much.

My husband, Frankie, that's the thing he goes to. I always love it when I do, but I think I like to keep my mind busy sometimes with podcasts or audiobooks because it keeps something about my brain. It keeps my brain from overworking. It's a distraction while maybe your brain is simmering on some other stuff.

[10:44] Kim Miller: Yeah. I love the Glennon Doyle podcast, We Can Do Hard Things. That one's been great lately. But yeah, Just Kids is my main one I like to go back to.

[10:56] Kim Miller: Your comfort food.

[10:58] Leah Walsh: Yeah.

[11:03] Kim Miller: You've now been having conversations with creatives for years about mental health and the arts. Even before I feel like it was on the forefront, you were talking about these things that people really didn't talk about. Mental health has become more and more de-stigmatized, which is fantastic. But at the time when you began this podcast, it wasn't really. So how has hosting The Compass changed your perspective about mental health and the arts?

[11:39] Leah Walsh: I'm so glad people are talking about it more now, and I feel it's all wrapped up in the conversation, like Fair Wage on Stage and all those conversations about just working practices and equitable working practices. Yeah, I feel like people are more willing to talk about it now. And what's been interesting is I feel like when I started the podcast, I was having these very intimate conversations with the people I was already intimate with. The first 20 people, the first 50 people that I interviewed, I consciously chose the people that I already had that kind of heart connection with who I knew would go to those places with me, who think about their work in a certain way or those kind of kindred spirits where I knew that they didn't mind examining that vulnerable place.

[12:48] Leah Walsh: And then as I went along, I think I got better and better at kind of drawing that out of people so that even if it was someone that I didn't know personally, I knew better how to make them comfortable. And the big thing for me is that and why I started the podcast is just like, I felt like I was going crazy and was just angry all the time because of the way the industry worked. And it didn't seem like anyone was talking about it. And I realized how unhealthy it was for me that I wasn't talking about it and that I was going out for drinks after the play and just being, how are you? Oh, I'm good. Auditioning, everything's good. Everything's fine. And really, I was angry and sad and sad and frustrated with the way the industry worked and the fact that I didn't have control over getting to do my craft. And so thank goodness I came to that realization that I needed to talk about it. And I'm

[14:04] Leah Walsh: I'm so grateful for all the people who have been open to talking about it with me. I think there's so much out there, and especially with social media, like the pressure is to only share our successes and only share the self-promotion and stuff like that. And that, some of that happens on the podcast, and I'm always happy to get people to go see your show or whatever it is, thank goodness. But the interesting thing about this podcast is I'm trying to talk about the things that were hard for you and that were difficult. And so I'm just so grateful that so many people have been open to sharing that with me instead of rightfully, you know, being self-protective and not wanting to, you know, I've felt that before of like not wanting to show weakness, feeling like you'll be judged for having feelings about not getting that job or admitting how hard it's been that you haven't been working or that, you know, the financial part of the business is taking a strain on you or whatever it is. So I'm very, very gonna make me cry. I'm very, very grateful that people have been willing to talk about that with me.

[15:43] Kim Miller: Well, I think you've done an incredible, you know, thing for folks by giving them a safe space. People wouldn't have done that if they hadn't felt like you were genuinely asking. That you, Leah, wanted to know. And I think it's, I mean, you sort of saw a need, you know, like I said, you were asking these questions before a lot of other people were. And I think that that is a really special gift that you have, that you're able to give people the safety to talk about those things.

[16:33] Kim Miller: My next question relates to a sort of theme that I found in listening to the podcast over the years was a sort of theme of resilience. Because I never left an episode, I mean, even though a lot of episodes were discussing darkness, we're discussing struggle, we're discussing, you know, sort of the brokenness of us as humans trying to navigate the art world, especially in a country that is almost entirely a commercial art world, because it has to be because there's so little funding for the arts. But something that struck me is I never left those conversations, listening to those conversations, feeling depleted, or, you know, hopeless, I always left those conversations that you had, you know, listening to those conversations, I always felt feeling better.

So what's something that a guest has said to you about resilience that's really stuck with you? When it doesn't, I mean, if there's also just sort of a general theme that emerges, you know, feel free to share that, too.

[17:38] Leah Walsh: You know, I, this is coming to mind, she because she was a recent guest. But Julia Ogilvie, who's a, she was a couple years after me in Juilliard, I had her on recently. And she is an actor and a comedian. And she had started like a very persistent practice of every time she had an audition, she was holding herself to going to an open mic to do like a comedy set that same day, like she had to do it the same day. That's amazing. And the way that she described it, she was saying that, like, she had to find a way to give herself the opportunity to do it. Like she had to find a way to give herself a green light. So that if even just, you know, not knowing the outcome of the audition yet, but even just the feeling of like, someone else being in control of the decision is as a red light, that she would need to go and find a way to give herself and her artistry a green light the same day.

And I just thought that was so amazing. And I feel like, you know, on the podcast, I love talking about the way people have made their own paths. And that's always the theme. I think I mean, I'm so glad you asked this question, like that resilience really is. You know, I wasn't trying to make a podcast about being a Debbie Downer and like, wallowing, it was never a podcast about wallowing. But yeah, like, what do we do in spite of all the difficult things? And ultimately, like, how do you live a long, healthy, creative life, in spite of all these things that are fucking hard? And don't make sense?

[19:29] Kim Miller: Well, and my next question is related to a sort of path in that about sort of pushing through despite circumstances. I'm curious how your creative practice has changed since becoming a parent. And, you know, I'm also a recent parent, our kids are pretty similar in age. I'm curious, you know, how you have continued your artistic practice in spite of this? Basically, I don't know how exactly to describe it. But you know, everything changes. When you become a parent, everything, you're a completely different person physically, your routines are different, your relationships are different. So how has your creativity sort of continued to be greenlit, in spite of, you know, some of the red lights that having a kid kind of throws up at you?

[20:36] Leah Walsh: You know, I think I find a lot of my time with my daughter creative, you know, especially as an actor, it's like, playing with her. It's so silly, but it's like, doing all these imagination exercises from our first year at Juilliard that I paid a lot of money for. She's just in that place where she's so open, and everything is imagination. From the minute I go in her room in the morning until the minute she goes to bed, and it's if I can be in the if I can be in the place where I'm not worried about rushing her or the 10 million other things I have to do. It's such a joy to be in her imagination with her and to say yes, you know. So that's, it's not so separate in that way. As the podcast was never really meant to be my creative outlet, but it's kind of become that over the years since I've taken a break from doing a lot of acting.

So I was really proud of the fact that I've been able to keep it up so long. I'm very happy, I'm sure we'll talk about this at some point, but I'm very happy with the decision I'm making right now to end it. But, you know, with some breaks here and there, my maternity leave, I've, I switched from doing one every week, which now I can't imagine doing one every two weeks, since having Ceci. But that was a constant and I definitely, for it's been rougher during the pandemic, but I held on to that practice. It was literally a practice. And it felt that way. And looking forward, even when the production part was kind of getting cumbersome, like actually sitting down and having those conversations with people that I respected was so inspiring and like, reminded me of my community and made me feel in touch with other artists, getting to have that dialogue, you know, which I wish I was in those spaces more right now.

I wish that I was having those conversations daily. But being able to have them once every two weeks or once every week was really lovely. And especially seeking out those other parent artists, which I was doing even before I got pregnant and had a kid, I think, because I knew that I wanted that someday. And I was curious as to how other people did it, but especially since becoming a parent, just being curious about how other people did it. I really loved, right, the last interview that I recorded in person before the national shutdown, was, I was going to interview Kathleen McNenney, who is a fellow Juilliard grad who teaches at school now. And she had been our teacher. And when I had asked her to interview her, she had suggested that we do a kind of a roundtable with our husbands.

So Frankie and I, like about parenting as an artist, and her husband is Boyd Gaines, who's an incredibly wonderful actor. And so the four of us, we actually went to the podcast network, the Broadway Podcast Network studio. And you know, we're talking about if Broadway was going to be shut down, like as we were walking to the studio, and it was like one of those, you were starting to feel things changing in the city. And we got to have that conversation together, kind of these two different generations of parents, and it was so lovely. It was such a great, such a great memory. So I mean, there's been parts of it that have been harder. I was trying to do morning pages for a while, like before Ceci woke up, and that didn't last too long.

But this last year, like she's three and a half now, like this last year, it's been a little bit easier. I've gotten to read books again. I've got my new crocheting hobby. I'm starting to have like a little bit of more.

[25:05] Kim Miller: Brainspace and time.

[25:06] Leah Walsh: Yeah, a little bit more capacity. Yeah. And it sounds like you've really sort of, I mean, I don't know who brought who into it, but it sounds like you've brought Ceci into your play. And then Ceci's brought you into her play. And that has been sort of a place of creativity and a safe space to just be yourself. And then I love that you've also continued to make the compass during that time. I mean, it would have been really easy for you to just say, I had a kid, I can't do this. But I think that's incredible that you recognize that it had become a kind of, you know, a kind of, you know, a kind of, you know, that it had become a kind of guidepost for you to continue to have conversations with other creatives about their practice. So I'm glad that you, that you continued.

[26:04] Kim Miller: I kind of was thinking, you know, we've known each other a long time. We've known each other since we were 17. And I'm curious, you know, if you were looking back and you met, you know, this young Leah that was embarking on this creative journey to college and then to graduate school and to professional, you know, career, you know, what would you tell that young person? What would you tell her?

[27:31] Leah Walsh: I'd probably tell her to live with a little more abandon. I feel like I've always been, I followed the rules pretty well. And I'm not sure why, like I was home educated. Like I didn't, I, you know, I didn't, I wasn't in the normal space for a long time. And then I feel like when I, when I went into like the institution of school, I was kind of like, oh, this is what you need to do. You need to follow the rules. And I kind of wish a little bit that I, in a lot of different areas, I, yeah, I would have lived with a little more abandon. And technically, like, I think I would have told myself, I really enjoyed college and I enjoyed Juilliard and I loved being there. And I think that's great, but I wish I had focused a little bit more on what came after that.

Like, while I was in school, I was so invested in like the ensemble of my class at Juilliard and like, what was happening in those four walls, which isn't bad, but it made the transition out of school and into the, into the business very difficult. And I don't think I was really ready for it. And I could have taken advantage of it in a lot of different ways. It was hard for me to separate the fact that I was going to be out there on my own, like dealing with all these things and being the only one fighting for myself. Because I'm a caretaker and I love being part of a group.

[28:10] Leah Walsh: For me, for me, it's like, it's like, I was always like, I'm like, you know, like, I'm a music teacher. You know, I love the way music is played. And I love like, that's what being in plays is about, you know, like, you're moving as this entity. And that was very hard for me. Like, and I wish that I had put a little more focus on that while I was in school.

[28:21] Melissa Arleth: Yeah. Yeah, I think that's something as young people that we really miss out on in, in the liberal arts setting in, you know, a fine arts college setting is sort of the ability to look beyond. And I don't know if that's because, you know, when you're in school, at that point, most people have not been outside of school. You know, a lot of times, we go straight from high school to college, many people go from college to graduate school. So there really has never been a time where of those restraints. But yeah, I feel like young creatives, I know, I definitely could have used some primers on what was to come. And part of me wonders if even if I had had those primers, if I would have even understood, you know, or believe.

But you know, I coming back to what you said about, you know, living with abandon when you were younger. And kind of, you know, is that advice that you give yourself now? Like, do you give yourself the space for that now, now that you're older, and can kind of look back? Or is that something that you feel like is still part of your journey?

[29:45] Leah Walsh: I think it's something I still need to be aware of. And I think that I think that I can get caught up in, like, when these things happen, then I can be free, that kind of thinking. Yeah. Or when these things happen, then I can be creative. You know, like, I'm not in the ideal situation right now. Like, I'm working a day job I don't really care about. You know, because talking about arts and commerce, like, when we wanted to have a child, I was doing theater that didn't pay very much. And my husband had a lot more opportunities to do TV, which does. So it made more sense for me to get a day job for the maternity leave and for the stability for the family, and to have him continue auditioning for now.

So I think for a while when we made that choice, and when I had Ceci, I think in my head somewhere, I had consciously or unconsciously thought, well, it's his turn now to be creative, and it will be my turn next. And I was also dealing with new motherhood and all this stuff, and working a full time job, and dealing with like being at that point in an office away from my baby, like it was a lot. But I think somewhere that had happened. And I think I'm trying to back away from that, because that's not him. That's me. Yeah, putting that on myself. And I don't want to do that about the other stuff either, like the living fully and adventurously, and whatever that is, like making the most of the weekend and not going hiking or doing physical things. I don't want to wait until the perfect. Oh, now we're in the perfect financial situation. And I'm not working this job anymore. Who knows when that's going to happen?

[31:47] Melissa Arleth: I think that's interesting, because it really relates to, I think, how a lot of us struggle with our creative practice as well. I don't know if it's ever been this way for you, but I know for me, there have been periods of time where I'm not creating, because in my mind, I need X, Y, and Z in order to create. Like when I have this, then I can make that. But I think what's interesting when you force yourself to be creative at a certain day time, consistently, you create imperfect work, but you also are creating a lot more. And it's interesting, kind of, I don't know, giving yourself the permission to create things, even when the circumstances aren't there, like you're saying, like giving yourself the permission to do something, and maybe it is going to be a cluster, but you did the thing, you know?

[32:53] Leah Walsh: Yeah, exactly. I'm much more invested in that right now. And I think part of that, too, is like letting go of, again, everyone, I'm not giving up acting. Please call me if you want me to act in something. I need to get back, and I don't know how. But letting go of some of the, what's the word? Not the self-promotion, but the keeping my profile up, like a side effect of the podcast, and it's been nice, but it was never my main goal, is that it's made me feel like I've kept myself in people's consciousness. I've kept myself part of the conversation, even when I haven't been acting. And I don't care about that right now. I'm so glad to have been part of, I'm not talking about the conversations we've had on this podcast, but like, I love my community, but I'm not interested right now in doing anything that I ever have to post on social media ever again.

I'm just in this place where I'm like, I just want to do things that are, like we said before, that are tangible, that are for the people that I decide it's for. Crocheting a very silly-looking unicorn right now for a friend's daughter's birthday, just for her and my own amusement. I'm not interested in the selling part of it.

[34:32] Melissa Arleth: Yeah, absolutely. That kind of leads into something I wanted to ask you about, and it's a two-part question. The first part is, you know, kind of, if you know, and it's okay if you don't, but kind of what are you looking towards in your next chapter? And then alongside of that, what are you going to carry with you from hosting The Compass, you know, as you transition into that next chapter?

[35:07] Leah Walsh: I have no idea what the next chapter is. Hey, you're living with abandon. I'm living with abandon. Oh, and I mean, The Compass, I'm gonna carry everything with me. I miss, I miss seeing friends so much, and I can be a little bit of a loner even before the pandemic. And I don't know, maybe I'm judging myself too harshly, because also I was a new parent before the pandemic, and like I said, dealing with being away from a baby at the office, and then spending a lot of time with that baby. So maybe it's just been in recent years, and it seems like reality now. But you know, having these conversations has kept me connected to so many people, in like meaningful ways, with so many people that I care about, and new friends as well.

But I'm someone who doesn't like small talk, and this has given me an avenue to skip on the small talk for years, almost seven years. I've had my own avenue to skip small talk. What am I going to do now? But I mean, the most important thing that it's given me was like proof that I can make something on my own. And I can believe that, and I have proof of that, so I could do it again.

[36:38] Melissa Arleth: Yeah, and that's powerful. Like that's been such a great thing about the podcast, is that I could do it without anyone telling me that I could.

[36:45] Leah Walsh: Yeah, so I'll definitely take that with me. I'm really proud of it too, and that feels good to have something to be proud of. Like I, again, it wasn't really the purpose of it when I started, but I really love that I've gotten to document, you know, this whole generation of artists in my life who I respect so much. And every, you know, we all have some friends who've like hit the big time in like the traditional sense, and their story gets told all the time. But I know all these artists who are just incredible, whose story is not necessarily being told. And I love that I've been able to record and document that. And that will, at this stage in their careers, and that will be around hopefully, you know, for a long, long time.

[37:45] Melissa Arleth: Yeah. Well, I wasn't sure if you wanted to talk about kind of why you came to this decision. I wasn't sure if maybe you were going to talk a little bit in an intro about that. But if not, I wanted to also give the opportunity for you, if you wanted to discuss at all, kind of why you came to the decision to move on to the next chapter.

[38:13] Leah Walsh: Yeah, I think I, you know, I had taken a little break this fall, because Frankie went to California to do a show for two months, and it was just going to be too much for me with solo parenting and all of that. So I took a break. And it's just, it's just the right time. I, and I feel really positive about it. There have been times when I've thought about stopping before. And it made me feel kind of sad or shameful, or like I would be giving up or failing in some way, if I had stopped at that point. And right now, it feels like no, I want to stop. I've loved what I've made. I've kind of am done for now with this idea. It's not that I'm giving up. It's that, you know what, I'm done with this. And I want it, I need to, I need to make room on my plate to see what's next.

I need to make room for a new idea to come to me. I need to open myself up to that. And in a way, like, you know, I was a little nervous to have you interview me, because I'm always the one interviewing other people. But I can, you know, it feels really nice to have someone asking me questions. Yeah, because I feel invisible a lot of times, not in regards to the podcast, but just like, in life. So it's nice. It's nice to kind of be on that other side. And I don't know what the next thing will be. But you know, I'm ready to not put myself in the background as much.

[40:59] Melissa Arleth: Yeah.

[41:01] Leah Walsh: So it's the right time. And I also, you know, I've talked to so many people. And since I'm not working on a lot of plays or anything right now, and because of the pandemic, like, I'm not necessarily meeting new folks. I've had a lot of the people that I wanted to have on, on. I'm sure there will always be more. And who knows, maybe I'll come back to this in 10 years and want to do it again, or maybe a different podcast. But for now, I feel very at peace with it. And it doesn't feel like a negative thing at all. So I'm very happy about that.

[41:28] Melissa Arleth: I'm so excited for you. And I mean, it comes back to that advice you were going to give your 18 year old self to live with abandon and to do something unplanned and uncharted. And that's what you're about to do. And I think that's really exciting. And I can't wait to see where the next couple of creative years take you as you give yourself the space to try new things. So thank you, Leah, for hosting this for the past couple of years and for just having being brave enough to have conversations with folks that aren't run-of-the-mill. For being willing to be so vulnerable, you know, with the audience and with your guests and creating a space where they can be vulnerable as well. You're the best and I love you.

[41:45] Leah Walsh: Thank you, I love you too.

[41:48] Leah Walsh: I'd like to thank the following people for their generosity. The Compass cover art is by Kim Miller, music by Brandon Spieth, audio assistance from Nick Choksi, and a special thanks to Frankie J. Alvarez.