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[0:18] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Hello and welcome to The Drama Book Show.

[0:20] David Rigano: My name is David Rigano.

[0:22] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And today we're here to talk about ageless dancers.

[0:26] David Rigano: And ageless they were.

[0:27] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Truly.

[0:29] David Rigano: Yeah.

[0:29] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I have no words.

[0:30] David Rigano: I have no words for that.

[0:32] Mark-Eugene Garcia: So this is we teased in the last episode. This is a photography book created by Betti Franceschi, who is not a dancer.

[0:41] David Rigano: No.

[0:42] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And apparently, we'll let her talk more about this, but didn't really have that many contacts in the dance world.

[0:49] David Rigano: So she would contact a dancer and they would contact more dancers and they would contact more dancers.

[0:55] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And so many of these people were saying that they just oh, I'm gonna go to this woman's studio and get photographed.

[1:01] David Rigano: Yeah, and that's the beauty of this community is that we're all connected in that way.

[1:06] Mark-Eugene Garcia: So we can do things like that. We can people will often refer you to something who refer to somebody else to somebody else, and that's a lot of how this was created.

[1:14] David Rigano: And one of the things that was amazing for me, we were talking, and you said that this was such a huge part of your childhood.

[1:21] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah.

[1:22] David Rigano: To have a Broadway legend in our midst and a dance legend.

[1:29] Mark-Eugene Garcia: She brought 95-year-old Sandra Lee, who originated the roles of Tiger Lily in Peter Pan on Broadway and Minnie Fay in Hello Dolly on Broadway.

[1:42] David Rigano: Yeah.

[1:43] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And she was a spitfire.

[1:46] David Rigano: She was.

[1:47] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Like there, I have many friends of a certain age, as a person of a certain age, and you expect you don't expect, but you imagine that people slow down.

[1:59] David Rigano: And yeah, I'm sure some people do, but not in this room.

[2:01] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Uh-huh.

[2:02] David Rigano: Um it was a rambunctious crowd.

[2:05] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah.

[2:06] David Rigano: From the people from the panel to the audience.

[2:09] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And yeah, to have her here was just a moment.

[2:12] David Rigano: Yeah, it really was.

[2:13] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I do remember watching recordings as a kid.

[2:17] David Rigano: I mean, that Mary Martin Peter Pan.

[2:18] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah, so many of us grew up on that.

[2:21] David Rigano: No, truly.

[2:21] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And that was one of the first times I ever really paid attention to choreography.

[2:25] David Rigano: And here I was like a child, not knowing anything about that, but just being transfixed by what was happening on the screen.

[2:32] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And so it just so now, and we can all obviously acknowledge that it was the 50s, and that the portrayal of indigenous people was problematic.

[2:44] David Rigano: Definitely.

[2:44] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And it's one of those that you can't you can fault, but you also it wasn't done out of malice.

[2:53] David Rigano: Yeah.

[2:54] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And she's so charming in the role.

[2:56] David Rigano: Her dancing is phenomenal.

[2:58] Mark-Eugene Garcia: The cartwheels of the—

[3:00] David Rigano: Yes.

[3:01] Mark-Eugene Garcia: It was astounding.

[3:01] David Rigano: And just to have that moment to be like, oh my god, that's her.

[3:05] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah.

[3:05] David Rigano: She's here.

[3:05] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Like that.

[3:05] David Rigano: And she's teeny tiny and 95 years old and still cute as a button.

[3:11] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Oh my god.

[3:12] David Rigano: And she did the splits.

[3:12] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I'm just kidding. She didn't do the splits, but can you imagine?

[3:15] David Rigano: I remember we like we were getting everything set up, and usually we would bring all of our guests upstairs, and obviously with a bunch of people at least 60, and even though these are people who are in many cases still actively dancing.

[3:29] Mark-Eugene Garcia: They're fitter than me.

[3:31] David Rigano: Yeah.

[3:31] Mark-Eugene Garcia: We were we made sure that they could all be in place at their chair.

[3:37] David Rigano: Also because we had so many of them.

[3:38] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I think we had six or seven.

[3:39] David Rigano: It was a big panel and a big audience.

[3:42] Mark-Eugene Garcia: It was a crowd.

[3:44] David Rigano: And as soon as we got her in her seat, she was like, So we're doing this thing?

[3:50] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah.

[3:51] David Rigano: Okay, are we going?

[3:52] Mark-Eugene Garcia: She was ready.

[3:53] David Rigano: She's on.

[3:54] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And it was like when we had Renee Taylor in here that it was just like, okay, we're on.

[3:59] David Rigano: We're doing a show.

[3:59] Mark-Eugene Garcia: We're doing a show.

[4:00] David Rigano: Walking in the door.

[4:01] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah.

[4:02] David Rigano: There's a certain showbiz element that is different.

[4:07] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And I think an old school, yeah, an old school showbiz.

[4:09] David Rigano: Yeah.

[4:10] Mark-Eugene Garcia: That is just, oh, we're doing a show.

[4:12] David Rigano: I think now it's a little less like that.

[4:14] Mark-Eugene Garcia: It's movies and theater has become a lot more intimate and less about, but they still have it.

[4:20] David Rigano: They turn it on.

[4:21] Mark-Eugene Garcia: It was like when Cheetah was doing the sound check with us.

[4:25] David Rigano: She was like talking talking.

[4:26] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Oh, sound check. One, two, three, four.

[4:29] David Rigano: We good?

[4:29] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Okay.

[4:29] David Rigano: Blah blah blah.

[4:30] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Talking again.

[4:30] David Rigano: There's that ability to turn on showbiz, and it's yeah.

[4:35] Mark-Eugene Garcia: We're lucky that we get to see that.

[4:37] David Rigano: And I'm so thrilled that we were able to capture not just this whole event, but certainly having Sandra Lee here.

[4:45] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Since unfortunately, Sandra Lee did pass away this week.

[4:49] David Rigano: Yeah.

[4:50] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And I texted you right away and I said we we must fast track this episode.

[4:54] David Rigano: We have to get it out because this is to honor her, and this is a little bit of Broadway history that was right here in the bookshop with us.

[5:02] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah, it's really exciting to be able to do that to showcase theater in a very roundabout way where it's not always what's coming out this week.

[5:02] David Rigano: It's not always what's on Broadway right now.

[5:13] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Sometimes it's history, and we need to know our history.

[5:16] David Rigano: Like I love listening to older shows.

[5:19] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I just saw High Spirits.

[5:21] David Rigano: Which I missed, unfortunately.

[5:23] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I wanted to be there.

[5:24] David Rigano: It's one of those watching it going, This is interesting.

[5:28] Mark-Eugene Garcia: This is delightful.

[5:29] David Rigano: And this walked, so some other shows can run.

[5:32] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah, and sometimes you go to Encores and it's fun to sit there and go, okay, I get it.

[5:37] David Rigano: I see why it didn't work.

[5:39] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah.

[5:39] David Rigano: But I was also laughing hysterically at some of these lyrics.

[5:42] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Like some of the lyrics and some of the songs, like I was just like, these are brilliant.

[5:46] David Rigano: I think it's we're heading off on a bit of a tangent here, but I think that there's so many times when you hear about a flop and you just imagine that it was rotten from note one to the final curtain call.

[5:58] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And go listen to Bring Back Birdie.

[6:00] David Rigano: Oh it's still Charles Strauss.

[6:02] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah, and those songs and it it's still Cheetah Rivera performing Charles Strauss.

[6:06] David Rigano: And you kind of go, oh, some of this was better as a whole, it didn't work.

[6:11] Mark-Eugene Garcia: But yeah, these are all shows that did some lifting so other shows could be there.

[6:17] David Rigano: And it just it brings us back to a time when Showbiz was Showbiz.

[6:22] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah.

[6:22] David Rigano: And we happened to capture that.

[6:25] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And movies were movies.

[6:26] David Rigano: And movies were movies.

[6:27] Mark-Eugene Garcia: But we happened to capture that in this event.

[6:29] David Rigano: Yeah, in the very much of those.

[6:31] Mark-Eugene Garcia: We're gonna go back and we're gonna talk showbiz with some people.

[6:35] David Rigano: And I'm excited to let you listen to that.

[6:37] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah, here we go.

[6:45] Betti Franceschi: The very social and important George just sneaked in here.

[6:50] Betti Franceschi: But the reason this became a book.

[6:54] Betti Franceschi: What happened was my daughter Antonia to photograph these people.

[7:00] Betti Franceschi: So I don't know how to use a camera, but I have three friends who do, and I asked them what camera I should get, and then teach me how to use it.

[7:14] Betti Franceschi: I knew two dancers who I knew I wanted right away.

[7:22] Betti Franceschi: One was Diana Byer right over there, and the other was Hillary Cartwright, who's now living in Spain.

[7:32] Betti Franceschi: It took me two years to cajole them up to my studio because they said, You don't want to photograph me, I look horrible.

[7:43] Betti Franceschi: And I said, just come.

[7:46] Betti Franceschi: So I get them up there and they go, What do you want me to do?

[7:52] Betti Franceschi: And I said, I don't know. You don't direct these people anyway.

[7:56] Betti Franceschi: So what we did, we'd go to the studio, and they'd get their nice black thing on, and they get up on the model stand, and I'd pick up the camera, and as soon as I'd say I don't know what you should do.

[8:21] Betti Franceschi: You could see their brain click in.

[8:25] Betti Franceschi: Oh, I'm on my own, meaning they know exactly what to do.

[8:31] Betti Franceschi: And so I just hold the camera and try to not miss anything, because it's fast.

[8:40] Betti Franceschi: And we'd go until we were tired and bored, and then everybody felt better once it was over.

[8:50] Betti Franceschi: And on their way out, they'd say, Hello who you want to get, and then they'd bring them in.

[8:59] Betti Franceschi: I wouldn't have known how to choose all these people, but like all artists, they have real criteria for other dancers.

[9:12] Betti Franceschi: So just brought them in.

[9:15] Betti Franceschi: And I'm lucky.

[9:17] Betti Franceschi: And it's a delight to show first of all people of our age that it's possible to be terrific.

[9:31] Betti Franceschi: And look it. End of lecture.

[9:34] Betti Franceschi: Um if you want.

[9:36] Betti Franceschi: My name is Lance Westergaard.

[9:38] Betti Franceschi: Avend Haram.

[9:40] Betti Franceschi: I'm Diana Byer.

[9:42] Betti Franceschi: Sandra Lee.

[9:44] Betti Franceschi: Joanna Rush, Teddy Kern.

[9:47] Betti Franceschi: And look in the book, they will knock your socks off.

[9:53] Betti Franceschi: Around your leg.

[9:53] Betti Franceschi: I'll take it.

[9:54] Betti Franceschi: I'll take it.

[9:55] Betti Franceschi: I got it.

[9:55] Betti Franceschi: Okay.

[9:55] Betti Franceschi: I'll take it.

[9:57] Betti Franceschi: Hold on.

[9:57] Betti Franceschi: Okay.

[9:58] Betti Franceschi: Now, again, James Dibus was supposed to be here, and he was an important part of the book.

[10:03] Betti Franceschi: He brought me so many people.

[10:07] Betti Franceschi: It's his book.

[10:10] Betti Franceschi: Like that commercial.

[10:11] Betti Franceschi: I told two friends, and they told two friends, and they told two friends.

[10:13] Betti Franceschi: That's how it happens, exactly.

[10:16] Betti Franceschi: Exactly.

[10:17] Betti Franceschi: And they're a tough audience.

[10:20] Betti Franceschi: Okay, so I think we should get there.

[10:22] Betti Franceschi: We do have some seats here from the panelists.

[10:24] Betti Franceschi: If some people want to move down, but that's all we have.

[10:27] Betti Franceschi: But now I think we should get the idea of what you felt like while you were getting photographed by Betty.

[10:33] Betti Franceschi: So let's start at this end and go all the way down, okay?

[10:37] Betti Franceschi: What did you just say?

[10:38] Betti Franceschi: But when you were getting photographed, and how did you find it?

[10:40] Diana Byer: Oh, uh well, it's always nice to meet new people?

[10:43] Diana Byer: And I met Betty because of Stephen Menendez said you'd be good for this project that Betty is doing.

[10:50] Diana Byer: And Stephen is with was with Diana, and now he's the director of the New York Theater Ballet.

[10:55] Diana Byer: But uh louder.

[10:56] Diana Byer: All right.

[10:57] Diana Byer: But when I'm sitting here tonight, I'm thinking, why in the hell am I here?

[11:00] Diana Byer: I should be dead.

[11:01] Diana Byer: There are it seems like I'm in a lot of books.

[11:04] Diana Byer: Fortunately, one of them was early on in my career.

[11:07] Diana Byer: Remember Theater Dance World?

[11:09] Diana Byer: Any of you?

[11:11] Diana Byer: World?

[11:11] Diana Byer: Okay.

[11:12] Diana Byer: So they put every performance in that.

[11:14] Diana Byer: So you saw your name in print for the first time.

[11:17] Diana Byer: It was in a book.

[11:19] Diana Byer: And then uh I made a debut at the old Met in 1965.

[11:23] Diana Byer: I'm getting to a point with you in a minute.

[11:25] Diana Byer: And there was a history of the Met Opera, and there I am in that thing, and I'm only 20.

[11:30] Diana Byer: Anyway, you want more?

[11:31] Diana Byer: I'm gonna tell you.

[11:32] Diana Byer: We should be celebrating.

[11:33] Diana Byer: How did you feel about getting the photograph?

[11:35] Diana Byer: Well, we do that.

[11:36] Diana Byer: You just do it.

[11:37] Diana Byer: You know what I mean?

[11:38] Diana Byer: And Betty was made me feel very comfortable.

[11:40] Diana Byer: Let's get beyond that.

[11:41] Diana Byer: What I'm interested more in is the people that that we're here because of other people.

[11:47] Diana Byer: And they've been glorified.

[11:49] Diana Byer: But thank God we were able to meet them.

[11:52] Diana Byer: I don't know what's happening with the young kids today and who they're meeting and uh their careers.

[11:58] Diana Byer: I met the great ones at a young age.

[12:01] Diana Byer: I was 17 when I came to New York.

[12:04] Diana Byer: Juilliard.

[12:05] Diana Byer: Graham was my teacher, Tudor was my teacher, Alfredo Carvino was my teacher, Jose Lamon was my teacher.

[12:11] Diana Byer: Diane came in late.

[12:13] Diana Byer: I was one year.

[12:14] Diana Byer: Yeah, but you were there, and you used to come in with Libby just before class started.

[12:18] Diana Byer: Anyway, it was fun.

[12:20] Diana Byer: What I'm trying to say is I'm gonna can't put this on to the next person, but thank God for your vision and doing this book.

[12:28] Diana Byer: I'm I'm in one other book.

[12:29] Diana Byer: It's called And They Danced On by Wellsard Carr.

[12:33] Diana Byer: Makar of a sister-in-law.

[12:36] Diana Byer: Oh okay.

[12:37] Diana Byer: That's enough from me.

[12:38] Diana Byer: How did I feel?

[12:40] Diana Byer: I said to myself my son will have a record of what I've done with my life.

[12:46] Diana Byer: And I was really happy that I was doing that to be in a book that he can give to his children.

[12:54] Diana Byer: Now I have four grandchildren and I'm very proud of that.

[12:58] Diana Byer: And Avon and I met 50 years ago and we meet and one of us wasn't so interested and we go away and then we meet again.

[13:12] Diana Byer: Avan showed up right when I finished all the photographs and he agreed to let me shoot 'em.

[13:24] Diana Byer: Now nobody looks like that at his age he was so amazing there are three images of him in there because I couldn't help myself.

[13:35] Diana Byer: That's true. Anyway, I'm a little embarrassed, but that's all right. No, I'm very fortunate that Carmen de la Velad asked me to call you up, and that's how it happened with me to get into this book was Carmen recommended me because we're all old, yeah, should be dancers over 80. Anyway, I've had an incredible career. I loved dancing from the minute I saw Gene Kelly singing, "I'm Singing in the Rain." Just hanging in the rain. And I said, "Mom, where's the dance school?" And that's how it happened. And then I was fortunate enough to go to the High School of Performing Arts. Incredible. Changed my whole life. Just that's the most incredible. You go from zero to a hundred in four years. I was so qualified as a dancer to go and do anything.

So I tried to do Gene Kelly kind of stuff and Fred Astaire stuff, but Hollywood was finished with that, so I got really pissed. So over there I say, "What do I do?" I've been in Hollywood. I'm trying to get a job in the movies, and I couldn't get a job, so I got a job at the Hotel Sahara as the lead jazz dancer, and Judy Garland's on the bill, and it's wonderful. And I'm dancing to "Rhapsody in Blue." They put me in blue lame, and there I am with all these gorgeous girls at 18. Yeah, but I know. And here's some of the luck. Don Sadler came to see some of the senior concert of performing arts. And he said, "Kid, just like in the movies, kid, if you ever need a job, give me a call." So I'm finished my engagement in Las Vegas, and I give him a call.

And he says, "If you can get here December 14th, start rehearsals for Sophie, the life story of Sophie Tucker." And I go, and I've just finished that, and I've got seven days to get to New York, and I got my car, and I do my first Broadway show. That's how lucky I am. I didn't even have to audition. And then life has been wonderful. And now I'm getting a little tired of talking about myself. Let's pass it on here. I've known Betty for sixty years, do you think?

[16:10] Sandra Lee: I think so. Yeah. And I think I was one of the first people that you worked with on the book. And I was the person that she's talking about. I stood there and said, "What am I supposed to do?" Everybody did it. Everybody did it. Betty made me feel so comfortable that we were trying things and things didn't work. And I think we worked about two hours. Yeah, about two, maybe even more. And for me, it was this great experience. It was fun, and I love the photos. I used one of them for my headshot. And I think, yeah, I'm so grateful. I think what's also wonderful is that you all got to wear whatever you wanted to wear.

[16:51] Diana Byer: But black.

[16:51] Sandra Lee: Not black, but and express yourselves as you are, and that was what was really moving. Told 'em, bring something black and tight. And anything I didn't wear tight. Else you want to try. Yeah. Usually wound up with black. But I didn't wear tight. But anyway, so I'm 79, I'm still dancing. I just did Anthony Tudor's "Judgment of Paris" a couple of weeks ago.

[17:19] Diana Byer: So wow, that's great. Last week I went and saw her perform my favorite of her repertoire, and thank God she's still doing it. It's the funniest thing I've ever seen in my life.

[17:37] Sandra Lee: That's great. Yep, except in the beginning it's very fast, and somehow I got on the wrong foot. And the other two women were on the correct foot, and there I was on the opposite foot. But I figured it out. All right. Next, I want to say something about this lady. Because I came to Dancers Over 40 late. I was associate producer on Channel 13's Metro Arts 13. And I met somebody from Dancers Over 40, and I got them on television. I got them on the Metro Art Station, and we interviewed people. And we also did some modern dance. And so I met this dance company, Buglisi Foreman Dance at the time. And I just love them so much, and we featured them. And because of that, they put me on the board. And who was this lady on the board with me?

Sandra Lee. And that's where I met her. I mean, oh my God. And we went all through the thing. Everybody says, "Oh my God, it's Sandra Lee." She was on my Christmas card that year. And that was 2000, I believe. But that's how I met Sandra, and she's been a member of Dancers Over 40, and she's been doing a lot of our panels because she's been around. And we've done a lot on Gower Champion and things like that. So Miss Lee, take it over.

[18:40] Sandra Lee: I don't know what to say, except that I think I saw Carmen Delavelade's son in the back. Is he back there? Yes, he is. Yes. Oh, there he is. Okay, I'm glad you're here. Because I don't know exactly how we met, really, but I was told to go to 102nd Street and ring the bell. So I thought, why not? We met and then you dragged in Carmen, whom I had been chasing for three years in bed, but you brought around scale. Yes. Yeah. But I think what really what we're trying to say, but by the way, I'm 97.

[19:25] Diana Byer: Oh, wow.

[19:26] Sandra Lee: Wow. I'm 97. I've been doing this, singing, dancing, acting, teaching, writing a book. Actually, another one. My second book, yeah. No. But I just wanted to say what was interesting to me is that I went to this person's house. I'm not sure how, but I knew I ring the bell, and this lady came down in this elevator. I thought, why not? So I went up, and then she said something about bring anything black that you want. I'm just doing this. So what really knocked me for a loop was not only this woman's courage, really, to do what she wanted to do, what she does well, and has the courage to reach out. And I was so deeply moved by her. And not only that, yes, and your photographs were glorious, and she's a wonderful painter.

And if we as fellow artists don't really help each other and recognize what it is our dreams are and what we can do. I'm sitting here with faces that I recognize from the book because we never were in companies together. Not really, but I know you from the book. I didn't know who the hell they were, and they didn't know who the hell I was either.

[21:00] Diana Byer: I think they did, Sandra.

[21:00] Sandra Lee: But what's interesting is first of all, this wonderful new really bookstore. It's really beautiful. And I feel honored to be here, and I thank you for putting me in your book. But I don't know who you are out here. We can take some QA after, so you'll get to meet some of the people. I'm an actor, I'm a painter, I'm a dancer. I was discovered by Jerome Robbins. So I hung out with some pretty great people. A few things. A few credits. I've been in companies all over the world. Ballet de Paris with Roland Petit, you name 'em. I knew them, I've worked with them. And I must say what unites all of us so is a kind of courage to come here as who we are, representing what it is we wanted to do and did it. And that's really let me.

[22:10] Diana Byer: Yes.

[22:10] Sandra Lee: We're of an age where we really can't waste time. And if we want to do something, do it.

[22:19] Diana Byer: Yes.

[23:43] Sandra Lee: And I want to say something about serious dancers. I've worked with serious dancers for 50 years. Young ones, old ones, anything. The same thing. I want to make a painting or drawing or something, sculpture. If I have an idea that resonates with you guys, you'll do anything for me. If I've got a dumb idea, you're out of there. No. You just do it if it serves your concept of your art. Okay, we have to go on. We have to go on there.

[23:43] Diana Byer: That's okay.

[23:43] Sandra Lee: All right. So let me let's move on to the next person. Please send the mic over. I would like to pass this, but before I do, I would like to say that the amount of courage that this woman has shown us, all of us, is something to be applauded because it ain't easy out there. And it's a competitive world as well. And when you have ideas and you have a real vision and you do something about it, I think that's amazing. And I think we should all thank you. Now we're going on to some people that have been members of Dancers Over 40. And what I want to say, I take task with Betty about serious dancers. I don't think that's always correct. Because Dancers Over 40 encompasses everyone that performs, all mature entertainers.

And we have people in the modern dance world, in the ballet world. We have burlesque people, we have people like Teddy who was with the Cockettes, we have Joanna who has done one-woman shows that we produced at the, oh, what's that old theater that's dead now at Gaines Theater?

[24:08] Diana Byer: Cherry Lane?

[24:09] Sandra Lee: Oh no. The one on 47th Street. Patrick, the one on 47th Street that we St. Luke's Theater. Oh, we did a lot of things at St. Luke's, and she does wonderful one-woman shows about her life, and brilliant. Plus, she was on Broadway. And Teddy was a Cokette in San Francisco. This lady has a different kind of resume. And so we encompass all those people. Patrick, one of our board members is a playwright. Ken Bloom, another board member has written so many books. Some of them are not here on UB Blake and stuff, but he didn't mention that his name isn't a few books here. So we do encompass a lot of other people than just what I would say serious dancers. They all have lived their lives as creative artists. And that's what's the important thing. On to Miss Rush.

[24:50] Joanna Rush: Hit it. How did it feel to be photographed by Betty?

[24:54] Joanna Rush: Was the question. I it felt amazing in so many different ways because I had my dancing part I thought was over. Although I did a chorus line in LA and I cried every night during "What I Did for Love," thinking I would never dance again. And then I got cast opposite Hint in "Battle in but was," but by the time Walter Willison introduced me to Betty, I was very self-conscious about my non-dancer looking body. And Betty just made me feel so beautiful and just back dancing. That's all I have to say because it really was moving working with you.

[25:35] Sandra Lee: Thank you, Joanna.

[25:36] Sandra Lee: Thank you. And now Miss Teddy Kern.

[25:38] Teddy Kern: Hit it. Hi. I'm Teddy Kern, and I had the privilege of being on the board of Dancers Over 40. And when I came to New York, I'm principally a choreographer. I've choreographed opera. I was on the faculty at Juilliard at one point. And yes, I choreographed lots of drag shows and opera around the country. And I just want to say that I think what Betty has done is amazing on so many levels and for celebrating longevity. And that we've all not only survived, but that we're still vertical. I'm deeply grateful to be 83 and still upright.

[26:21] Diana Byer: Wow.

[26:21] Teddy Kern: And musical. Done musicals, I've done it all, and I was so grateful to be included in the book. And Betty just said, "Do whatever you want to do." And it was hilarious. Totally hilarious. Let's face it, dancers are free. So we just all cut loose, I think, on one level or one level or another. And it was an amazing experience to be celebrated by Betty, and I'm grateful, as all of us are.

[26:50] David Rigano: Thank you, Teddy. David, do we have time for QA?

[26:53] Mark-Eugene Garcia: A little QA?

[26:53] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Great.

[26:54] Mark-Eugene Garcia: So if any of you have questions, if I can bring the mic over, if not to sing out Louise, I'll repeat the questions.

[26:59] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Okay. Anyone have a question?

[27:01] Audience Member: Right here. This is not so much a question as a little promo. I wrote an article about Betti Franceschi in a journal we have called Persimmon Tree. And if you don't know Persimmon, it's an online journal for and about women in the arts over 60. And we have several of the people on the board there and editors, and I'm the art editor. And I hope you'll all read the article about Betti because it puts the context of all of her art as well, which you may not know. Thank you.

[27:41] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Anyone else? Anyone else for the question? You can always yell it in front of we'll repeat it. If anybody else has a question, no more questions.

[27:50] Betti Franceschi: Betty one here. Why George got involved?

[27:56] Betti Franceschi: Because I wouldn't have done a book, but George made me first of all he agreed to write an essay. It makes me sound like a very serious person, which I love. But it took me years to find out from him what interested him. This George isn't happy painter, first and left. And I was really curious why this group of work interested. And I came to, I told him an anecdote at the press, I playing to a girl who worked on the press why the crop of the image matters so much. You put a frame around a dancer, and it's a partnership, a dialogue between the gesture and the frame. And when I said that, George said, that was what interested me. And I said, What? He said he had a friend years ago who was involved in dance, who told him, who kept telling him that dance was abstract, and George couldn't see it.

But he says when he looked at my images, dialogue between the dancer and the frame, he could see it. Now, in my experience, there's a dance world and an art world. They carry on as if each other didn't exist. Now, we have made a bridge between them. And that makes me really happy.

[29:55] Diana Byer: And what I love is by holding the microphone, Betty's gesturing and putting things in a frame around what she is saying. Which is really brilliant. It really is. How much time, David?

[30:06] David Rigano: I have a question.

[30:07] David Rigano: Okay. For anyone who wants to answer. As someone who has danced and but is not going to be 44 months yet. How what do you do to keep movement in your lives?

[30:23] Audience Member: Say that into the mic. I said drink martinis gin try.

[30:27] Audience Member: Oh, oh, yes. Oh, yes. Extra dry.

[30:29] Audience Member: How many olives? I need to know the exact recipe.

[30:32] Audience Member: How many olives?

[30:33] Audience Member: Sorry, sir. How many olives?

[30:35] Audience Member: Oh, onion.

[30:36] Audience Member: Oh, that's now we all know the secret. Someone answer that question.

[30:42] Sandra Lee: Sure, uh two of us. Just keep moving. Um right now I'm just keep moving by going to the gym and swimming. I love to swim, it keeps me in shape. I just keep dancing every day. I just do everything I want to do. It doesn't matter what it is, whether it's acting, directing, cooking, sleeping. It doesn't really matter. Just do what your body tells you to do. That's all I can say. I have a great life. I really do.

[31:16] Teddy Kern: I'm at the gym a lot, and my workout is all my physical therapy exercises for my shoulder, my knees, and everything else. Yeah. That's how I keep moving. It's pretty simple. Get your ass out of bed every day.

[31:31] Betti Franceschi: Thank you so much. Thank you, Teddy. I'll go to PT and make myself a martini, and I'll look as great as y'all do when I'm your age.

[31:38] Diana Byer: The only other thing I was introduced to all these people to the dance world because I wrote my master's thesis on Bob Fosse. I was a director. And when I came up here, I happened to bump into this kid who was from my hometown. And he said, When you knew when you're in New York, come and see me. I said, Eddie, where am I going to see you? He said, Oh, just come to Phil Black's dance studio. I said, What's that? I didn't even know what it was. So my first year here, I went up the staircase to the third floor at Phil Black's, and it was amazing. And I started taking a tap class, and within a month, he asked me to teach tap. Within two months, I was teaching jazz. I taught there for 14 years. And I met all these people, all that I would not have really met because I was really a director and not really a dancer, but I've been dancing for 72 years.

And so by meeting them and then going into television and then getting all those people on, it was like serendipitous, like this was supposed to happen, how these worlds would combine for me. And since I love telling people what to do, which Teddy knows very well, the directing and the producing of these events is what I do for dancers over 40. And I really love doing that because I've seen them grow and continue to evolve all these years.

[32:49] Diana Byer: And we have a lot of members here in the audience. We have board members Sasha Spielvogel and Sharon Wendrow and Laney Andrews and Ken Bloom and Patrick McCarthy, all board members, current board members. And we have who else? Darlene Larson's here, a lovely longtime dancers over 40 member. Who else do I know? Oh, Josh E. Ellis, who's a sort of honorary dancer over 40 member. PR Maven that he is from all the shows in the 60s. So we have a big following, and we'd all love you to join us too. And we are doing this our legacy awards on Monday, December 8th at Lips Restaurant. We're honoring five of our dancers. Every year we pick five people to honor for their contributions to dance and to dances over 40.

And it makes a spectrum. There's Andrew Gennetti, who is a modern dancer, has his own company. We have John Spanner, who's a playwright and dancer. We have Carol Banninger, who was in every single show of 42nd Street for 8,000 performances, never took a vacation or a sick day in eight years. Carol Banninger, Diane Laurent, Diana Laurenton from Fosse fame. And am I forgetting somebody? Yes, I am. Diane Coupe, who was in the original name as Patrick's good girlfriend, not the bad one, not the please to meet your acquaintance, the one that he ends up with. And Diane did many things. So those are our five honorees. And we have a dinner on Monday, December 8th. You're all welcome to come to Lips Restaurant.

It's on Red Eye, Ticketing with Red Eye. And then we'll be doing hopefully the reunion. We have 14 members of the original cast of George M. And we are trying to put that together for July 4th for the 250th anniversary of our country and of the show. It'll be 55 years. And we have 14 members that are still around, and 10 of them are in New York City. So that's what's on the schedule for us. And are we done now, David? Is that it? Anything else?

[34:32] David Rigano: Yeah, if we said everything that can everything. Betty, would you like to do that?

[34:37] Diana Byer: Okay. You asked me before what it was like being photographed by Betty, all right? I had no idea who the woman was. I was told to go to this place. She could have had a gun and just shot me as I walk into the room. But she put me up on it was a little stage. And I said, now what do I do? I can't move. But I had something. And Betty, it was a lovely afternoon. Really. Yes. Okay. And I don't think that it was good for all of us. I have a feeling that that time. That is rare. At my age, to have a lovely afternoon. Here's to more of them.

[35:10] Betti Franceschi: I don't see a martini. Wait. I think the reason it works, and people always ask me what I do, and they assume I direct them. I can't direct them. But I expect the reason it works was when I see something that I can see life and movement and ideas. I can see ideas. And my favorite thing in the world to see somebody think. And what dancers do is think visibly.

[35:50] Betti Franceschi: All right. I think this is it. Thank you all for coming. I'm very excited that you all came here. And hopefully you'll buy the book. Um we'll take pictures of everybody here. So that they'll be on the dancers over 40 page. Uh please come and join us. And we are back from a lively discussion of dancing and time and what it means to be in showbiz.

[36:11] David Rigano: And to be ageless.

[36:12] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yes, very. And that's you know what? That's the goal. I think that's for me. Like I, as a forever kid, I I don't want to use the term man child, but as a forever kid, I think Toys R Us Kid, I think is the phrase. Yeah, I don't want to grow up on a Toys R Us kit. 100%.

[36:29] David Rigano: I did work there. Again, it also goes back to Sandra Lee and Peter Pan.

[36:33] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah. It's I think the ability to believe in magic, the ability to live a life of wonder allows that to happen. And that's what it was. This watching people who believe in magic and live a life of wonder. That's why I asked them. I was like, what do you do? I'm starting, I'm starting to reach the kind of age where people start to go, oh, and I go, okay, so now what do I how do I get to be you?

[37:02] Teddy Kern: Kickbox.

[37:03] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah, I know that's your secret.

[37:05] Teddy Kern: Yeah. No, it's I think it's that. It's refusing to not be able to do that. But also, my dad didn't start doesn't kickbox, but my dad does boxing for personal training.

[37:15] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Oh, that's amazing.

[37:16] Teddy Kern: And he started that in his 60s after heart surgery. Part of it, it started with PT.

[37:21] Mark-Eugene Garcia: That is amazing.

[37:23] Teddy Kern: I'm the fight your dad. We have the same version. July 13th, we'll have set up the him punching and you kicking.

[37:32] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Exactly. Kick puncher, the punching, the whatever the yeah.

[37:35] Teddy Kern: Oh god, it'll be fun. We'll get Troy and Abed to commentate.

[37:38] Mark-Eugene Garcia: 100%. But no, this was a delight, an absolute delight of agelessness.

[37:45] David Rigano: Yeah. And celebrating that. I was very happy to have them here. It was a really beautiful event.

[37:51] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Speaking of La Beautiful Events.

[37:53] David Rigano: Oh, yes.

[37:55] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yes. It was a La Beautiful Day.

[37:57] David Rigano: Yes. And we And this is what La Beauty is.

[38:00] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yes. We had a wonderful talk with Neil LeBute.

[38:04] David Rigano: Yeah.

[38:04] Mark-Eugene Garcia: A while back talking about his one act.

[38:08] David Rigano: His one acts.

[38:09] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And a festival that he runs in St. Louis for other playwrights.

[38:15] David Rigano: Yeah.

[38:15] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And they'll talk a little bit more, but this comes from the actors, the St. Louis Actors Studio, and it's a collection of one acts by Neil LeBute. And he was here with his wife and the artistic director of the festival to talk about and read from.

[38:32] David Rigano: Unlike Legion.

[38:33] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah. And it was really fun. That whole the whole event happened because he and I were just having a conversation here at the store just randomly chatting and just talking about finding comedy. Because that's what happened to the city. That's what happens here at the bookstore store. Talking about finding comedy and just writing theater and then it just happened where he was like, oh I have this incoming out and we're like, let's do this.

[38:52] David Rigano: Yeah, yeah. And also have you ever had Neil LeBute sing happy birthday to you.

[39:00] Mark-Eugene Garcia: That is certainly this was on July 13th, wasn't it?

[39:03] David Rigano: June 13th.

[39:04] Mark-Eugene Garcia: June 13th, sorry. Do you know your dad's birthday?

[39:06] David Rigano: No.

[39:06] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Clearly. I don't know anyone else who has. I don't know if I said July 13th a couple minutes ago.

[39:14] David Rigano: So edit that as well for June 13th.

[39:17] Mark-Eugene Garcia: So just use that for all of them now I'm not.

[39:21] David Rigano: Yeah. But oh I know. We I have had that privilege of having Neil LeBute sing happy birthday and you'll all get to hear it soon as we get into our next episode.

[39:31] Mark-Eugene Garcia: So remember to follow us on Instagram at Drama Book Show Podcast. Please subscribe to the Drama Book Shop on Eventbrite so that you can be notified every time that we add new in-person events to our calendar. Give us some comments give us some follows tell us how you're an ageless dancer. Tell us your favorite Neil LeBute play. We want to see stars. We'd be happy to chat with you and remember that all the books we talk about can be found here at the bookshop. And so can we and we will see you at the bookshop.