This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:18] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Hello and welcome to The Drama Book Show.

[0:20] Dylan Glick: My name is Dylan Glick.

[0:23] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Dylan, it's good to see you again.

[0:26] Dylan Glick: Yeah, happy to have you back.

[0:26] Mark-Eugene Garcia: It's our first one back since the new year with you.

[0:29] Dylan Glick: Happy New Year, Mark.

[0:30] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Happy New Year.

[0:31] Dylan Glick: Happy, uh, two years so far.

[0:32] Mark-Eugene Garcia: It's been good.

[0:33] Dylan Glick: It's been good.

[0:34] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I have been gone for January.

[0:37] Dylan Glick: Since you've been gone.

[0:39] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Truly.

[0:40] Dylan Glick: Yeah, no, I was gone for a bit, but I'm back back around again.

[0:44] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And I was shining misery.

[0:47] Dylan Glick: It was really good.

[0:47] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I all of my pictures of London are at night because all of my rehearsals are during the day.

[0:52] Dylan Glick: I only got to go out and see the city like at nighttime or on the bus ride from my Airbnb to the theater.

[0:58] Mark-Eugene Garcia: What was your favorite like touristy thing that you did while you were out there?

[1:01] Dylan Glick: Mousetrap.

[1:03] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I love that show and it's so special to me.

[1:06] Dylan Glick: And to see the actual production was cra— and I'm not a merch boy, like I'm not one who buys a lot of merch for shows.

[1:13] Mark-Eugene Garcia: But for that one, I'm like, I want the hardback edition, I want the play, I want the magnet, I want it, yeah.

[1:17] Dylan Glick: I'm surprised I didn't get a t-shirt.

[1:20] Mark-Eugene Garcia: All of it.

[1:20] Dylan Glick: Yeah, and they stamp it.

[1:21] Mark-Eugene Garcia: They stamp it with what the production— and I was like, yeah, it was like thirty thousand, three hundred something.

[1:27] Dylan Glick: I remember us also talking about how this was like your first show.

[1:31] Mark-Eugene Garcia: It was the first show I ever did.

[1:32] Dylan Glick: It was Mousetrap.

[1:34] Mark-Eugene Garcia: But also, didn't you do— didn't you see Woods as well?

[1:36] Dylan Glick: I saw Into the Woods, which is the second show I ever did.

[1:39] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And, uh, so it was a good full circle of going from first to last show.

[1:44] Dylan Glick: Or latest show, I should say.

[1:45] Mark-Eugene Garcia: But yeah, no, it was wonderful.

[1:46] Dylan Glick: What was you?

[1:47] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And you were gone too?

[1:48] Dylan Glick: I— you went on vacation.

[1:50] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I didn't go on vacation.

[1:51] Dylan Glick: Yes.

[1:51] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah, it was a great time.

[1:52] Dylan Glick: Me and my family went to Mexico.

[1:54] Mark-Eugene Garcia: It was great.

[1:54] Dylan Glick: Nice classic.

[1:55] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I read Romeo and Juliet.

[1:56] Dylan Glick: Okay.

[1:56] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Which I hadn't been in the city of the color.

[1:57] Dylan Glick: Light reading.

[1:58] Mark-Eugene Garcia: School.

[1:58] Dylan Glick: Like light reading, which was good.

[1:59] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I read Rebecca by Daphne Du Maurier.

[2:02] Dylan Glick: Again, light reading.

[2:03] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Again, yeah.

[2:03] Dylan Glick: I'm like, I feel like during the year, I like when I'm like on the subway or something, I have a hard time like locking in and reading the classics.

[2:09] Mark-Eugene Garcia: So I'm like, on a little vacation, sure.

[2:11] Dylan Glick: I can devote my attention to a book that'll take a lot of attention.

[2:14] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah, I have a hard time reading classics in general.

[2:16] Dylan Glick: I think I get— maybe it is the attention thing.

[2:19] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And then because then suddenly I'll sit down and read something and be like one sitting and just read like crazy.

[2:24] Dylan Glick: But just for some reason, getting my attention span, I don't know, maybe it's as I get older, it's harder to focus.

[2:30] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I think it's like specifically when it comes to understanding the language is like what I have a hard time with in terms of doing like the step of translating it and then also understanding it and going through it.

[2:39] Dylan Glick: I think it just takes me a while to get through it.

[2:41] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I like it, but it just takes a while, yeah.

[2:43] Dylan Glick: No, it's— I'm trying to think of the last one that I read, but I remember feeling like very happy with myself, but it also, uh, it was work.

[2:50] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Are you reading anything good right now?

[2:52] Dylan Glick: I am still working my way through it.

[2:54] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Oh, how much percentage are you?

[2:55] Dylan Glick: I paused a little bit because of the show.

[2:57] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I was focused on that, and so now I have to like sit, get through and read it.

[3:02] Dylan Glick: And it sucks because it's a good thing.

[3:06] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Um, back to Dairy.

[3:07] Dylan Glick: It's a great book.

[3:08] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I didn't realize how much lore there is in that book.

[3:11] Dylan Glick: Like it's— I think when I first started reading King, I thought it was gonna be more like jump scares.

[3:19] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah, but a lot of the scares are there, but then there's also just— and then we're gonna tell you a story about this person's life, and it's a lot of lore.

[3:26] Dylan Glick: Yeah, and so that I think is the hardest part for me because I want to get to the— I want to get to the scares, but I'm still enjoying it.

[3:31] Mark-Eugene Garcia: It's a beautiful book.

[3:31] Dylan Glick: That's the thing, it's a beautiful book.

[3:33] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah, and I think I— I didn't expect it to be a beautiful book.

[3:35] Dylan Glick: I expected it to be like boom scary.

[3:37] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah.

[3:37] Dylan Glick: I feel like I— one of these days I will sit down and read it.

[3:40] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I've tried reading The Stand three times.

[3:43] Dylan Glick: It's like the coop— the super long one.

[3:45] Mark-Eugene Garcia: The big giant one.

[3:46] Dylan Glick: Yes, yes.

[3:46] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I've— and I've gotten like maybe 300 pages, and I'm like, let me take a little break.

[3:49] Dylan Glick: And then I never finish it.

[3:50] Mark-Eugene Garcia: So I'm like, I think with longer books, I have a hard time.

[3:53] Dylan Glick: One of these days I will read that and I will read it.

[3:55] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yes.

[3:56] Dylan Glick: Yeah, no, same.

[3:57] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I have The Stand at home.

[3:58] Dylan Glick: I just haven't sat down to read it yet.

[3:59] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And this one, I feel like as soon as I do finish it, I'm probably gonna go through ten short, trashy books.

[4:04] Dylan Glick: Yep.

[4:05] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Just so I can feel like I'm getting the momentum of reading again.

[4:08] Dylan Glick: Because when you do read a long book that takes a long time, for some reason for me at least, I start to lose momentum and be like, I'm tired of reading.

[4:14] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I hate reading.

[4:15] Dylan Glick: Yeah.

[4:16] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And so I have to buckle down.

[4:18] Dylan Glick: I just read— I was reading Wuthering Heights with Archer, who works here, and Max used to work here at Dear Friends, and they finished it, and I gave up less than halfway through.

[4:29] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Then I read Wathering Lowe's.

[4:30] Dylan Glick: Wathering Lows, Wandering Lows, and Wathering Heights.

[4:34] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And then I just read this book called My Husband, and I like flew through it because it was like a suspense novel.

[4:38] Dylan Glick: And I was like, sometimes you need those, and I think that that's what I need.

[4:41] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Like I actually haven't even picked up Heated Rivalry, and I have it, and I just haven't sat down, but I also told myself I'm not reading anything until I finish it.

[4:47] Dylan Glick: So maybe after that I will do that.

[4:49] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah, and it's a good thing.

[4:50] Dylan Glick: By the time I finish it, you'll finish writing the series or finish watching the series.

[4:53] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I knew that this was gonna— I wasn't even gonna go there.

[4:55] Dylan Glick: It just happened.

[4:56] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Here's the thing, you bring up Heated Rivalry, I'm like, I'm about to be attacked.

[4:59] Dylan Glick: And yes, I'm gonna come out and say this on the— and you know what, a perfect episode to be talking about Heated Rivalry.

[5:05] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I've seen two and a half episodes of Heated Rivalry.

[5:07] Dylan Glick: I have not finished it yet.

[5:08] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I will finish it.

[5:10] Dylan Glick: I've seen essentially every plot point on social media, and I love it.

[5:13] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I just am— I also just watched The Traitors, so I'm— I will get back to it and work my way through it.

[5:19] Dylan Glick: But I did love what I saw definitely, and it's not— it's kind of not because you're lack of love for queer stories, yeah, because I know you do because you love this show that we're talking about so much.

[5:30] Mark-Eugene Garcia: We're talking about Prince Faggot today.

[5:33] Dylan Glick: That show is such a journey for me.

[5:36] Mark-Eugene Garcia: That journey for you.

[5:36] Dylan Glick: Oh yeah, I love that journey for you too.

[5:38] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Because there's— I'm a queer man of a certain age, and so that was a word that hit hard, and so it even— I think I was still going on that journey here because the play came out and I called it Prince F for so long, and other people did too, and then it dawned on me like I have no problem helping somebody find a copy of Motherfucker with a Hat and just saying that like to a random person that— why is Prince Faggot tripping me up?

[6:04] Dylan Glick: And I think it's one because I've been called that before, but then again, I've probably been called a motherfucker too, but it just didn't bother me as much as that.

[6:11] Mark-Eugene Garcia: But yeah, it took some like work, and I don't know because I also come from an age where like we had to reclaim the word queer.

[6:18] Dylan Glick: I remember you telling me this before.

[6:20] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah, and it was something that when they were saying, "Oh, we're reclaiming it," I'm like, why?

[6:24] Dylan Glick: Why do we want to— why do we want that word?

[6:26] Mark-Eugene Garcia: That makes no sense to me.

[6:27] Dylan Glick: So the idea of being— using it in such a casual way was jarring, which is the point.

[6:32] Mark-Eugene Garcia: What— one of the points of the show is using it, but also using it in a different terminology too.

[6:36] Dylan Glick: It's such an impactful show for that reason that just to start the conversation from before even seeing the show, conversations with other people, conversations with yourself.

[6:47] Mark-Eugene Garcia: It's really powerful.

[6:49] Dylan Glick: I do— I find that I really love art that is— I feel like the impression that it makes is it draws you in by being like— I think Prince Faggot is a very like flashy title, you know what I mean?

[7:00] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And it makes me go, what is that?

[7:02] Dylan Glick: I like— like I saw the title, I was like, sold, get me a ticket, you know what I mean?

[7:05] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah, like that, it just like— and then it gets you there, and then it is just so intelligent and moving, and also just very fascinating, and I really fought for the characters, and it's just a show.

[7:16] Dylan Glick: It was one— I honestly can say that it was your recommendation that did it.

[7:19] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Like, I went from— it was being in my peripheral, and I think because of the title was hitting me in a place.

[7:24] Dylan Glick: I'm like, well, you're like, I don't know.

[7:25] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah, like that, and then, uh, you saw it, and then just came in and was like, everybody go see the show, go see the show.

[7:31] Dylan Glick: And then so when the opportunity came to go see it, I was like, yes, absolutely.

[7:35] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Normally I'm like dragging my feet sometimes.

[7:37] Dylan Glick: This was your day of gay thing.

[7:40] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Because I— what's it called?

[7:42] Dylan Glick: Saw this and then went and saw Crazy White Gaze later, and they could not be more different.

[7:46] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And yeah, and this was just— I don't know, it hit me in the heart.

[7:50] Dylan Glick: It really captured that feeling, similar to— not to attack you, Heated Rivalry.

[7:54] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah, captured the feeling of being closeted, captured the feeling of holding back something that is incredibly personal, but also some— that part of your identity, and it just was told in such a beautiful way.

[8:07] Dylan Glick: I just— the staging, the stories, the performances.

[8:12] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Oh yeah.

[8:12] Dylan Glick: I like— this was my— so I saw it with Max, and he had raved to me about that— there was a show called— I'm assuming you know David Greenspan.

[8:21] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah, it was a— which I did not— I had not seen any of David Greenspan's work before this, and so Max came in raving about that show when we like both were chatting at the coffee shop or whatever, and then he was like, let's go see Prince Faggot.

[8:34] Dylan Glick: We got tickets for it, it was fantastic, and it was my introduction to David Greenspan.

[8:39] Mark-Eugene Garcia: He blew me away.

[8:41] Dylan Glick: I thought there was not a weak link, I think.

[8:43] Mark-Eugene Garcia: No, not at all.

[8:43] Dylan Glick: That entire show, it just— from the moment it started, and then it just— it took me back on that.

[8:48] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Like the first thing I did when he— here, yeah, talked— talked about the photo and put the photo of his childhood up.

[8:56] Dylan Glick: I immediately thought of my own photo and already knew exactly which photo it was that was like, this is the photo.

[9:02] Mark-Eugene Garcia: You can 100% tell that I was a queer kid.

[9:05] Dylan Glick: I do know what's crazy.

[9:06] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I like— I've showed you a photo, right?

[9:07] Dylan Glick: But I'm like, and I'm like, I think that's like flamboyant and like energetic, but I don't— I do not have the— I don't— I have to dig through like photo albums.

[9:15] Mark-Eugene Garcia: You know what I mean?

[9:16] Dylan Glick: I'm not sold that this is the definitive photo.

[9:18] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Oh yeah, no, it's a lot of people.

[9:19] Dylan Glick: Yours is very flamboyant.

[9:20] Mark-Eugene Garcia: That's a gay kid.

[9:21] Dylan Glick: I haven't found— like even earlier, one of the very first photos I have, it's like me and my neighbor, and we're in like a waiting pool, like one of those like backyard little waiting pools that you get or front yard, depending on where you put your waiting pool.

[9:35] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And we're sitting there, and we couldn't— either of us couldn't be more than three and four, like we are kids.

[9:41] Dylan Glick: But I have my arm around him like I am claiming him and just staring at the camera like he's smiling, and I'm just giving this look of this is mine.

[9:52] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And I was like, oh my god.

[9:54] Dylan Glick: To go off of that, I like— when I was like very young, like this was— I think it was probably like before preschool.

[10:02] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I remember my— or maybe, I don't know, around that time, my mom got me this little like notebook where it was like Nickelodeon, fill in the blank notebook.

[10:10] Dylan Glick: Uh-huh.

[10:10] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And one of the questions was, if my name wasn't blank, I would want my name to be blank.

[10:16] Dylan Glick: And at that time, my best friend's name was Austin.

[10:19] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And so as a gay adult, I like was like flipping through that book and I saw that and I was like, I'm like, there was— I probably—

[10:19] Dylan Glick: Oh yeah.

[10:27] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I used to think I was talking to my husband about it, and I used to think that I just wanted my friends to like come over and stay overnight.

[10:36] Dylan Glick: Like when you had like friends stay overnight.

[10:38] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah, I just wanted them to do that forever.

[10:39] Dylan Glick: And we would play video games and eat Oreos and all of that fun stuff and go camp out in the backyard.

[10:44] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And ultimately, I'm— that's what gay marriage is.

[10:47] Dylan Glick: Um, you get to hang out with your bestie.

[10:50] Mark-Eugene Garcia: That's what marriage is in general.

[10:51] Dylan Glick: You get to hang out with your bestie and create a life together.

[10:54] Mark-Eugene Garcia: But you get to do those things though, it's a sleepover forever and that's what I wanted.

[10:58] Dylan Glick: And yeah, like I didn't know I was queer.

[11:02] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I just was very upset when my friends would leave.

[11:04] Dylan Glick: I also didn't know I was queer.

[11:06] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I like— I remember being— I think I like chatted with my mom about this recently or like friends or something too.

[11:12] Dylan Glick: Like I remember being in like middle school or like elementary school, and I lived down the street from the baseball field.

[11:19] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And there was like a— the little like a clubhouse behind the home plate where people would like do the scoreboard and that kind of stuff, and I was hanging out up there with some like kids that were doing the scoreboard, and someone walked up to me a few years older than me and went, "Are you gay?"

[11:32] Dylan Glick: And I was like, no, but like I genuinely— I didn't know.

[11:35] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah, I didn't know.

[11:35] Dylan Glick: I didn't realize until I was like in high school where I was just like, oh, but I genuinely thought I was straight up until maybe— like I still had girlfriends.

[11:44] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I still— I had a long-term relationship through most of high school and then a little laughter, and I— it was always like once I got to the place where I was like to that age where I'm like, okay, I know something's different.

[11:57] Dylan Glick: Yeah, it like— I was already in that role of boyfriend and the all— I was already there.

[12:01] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And then it was just like I still— I went from wanting my friends to stay over all the time and that and wanting to have that forever sleepover to like certain ones being like, okay, I just— I want to be with you all the time.

[12:13] Dylan Glick: Yeah.

[12:14] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And it just like hit— oh, if— yeah, it just hit.

[12:14] Dylan Glick: But that— that inner angst, that hidden want and yearning, that's something that this show just really captured and just, yeah, yanked my heart out to do.

[12:30] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I feel like I did really feel for him, which I know it's— I know it is nuanced because I know it is— shouldn't you renounce this immense privilege that you have if you really want to be a part of your community?

[12:42] Dylan Glick: I'm like, I get that.

[12:43] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I'm like, I also am like— I'm like, who's to say I would be able to do any better than this play?

[12:49] Dylan Glick: Anytime there's any kind of family responsibility or anything like that, it hits hard.

[12:54] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah.

[12:54] Dylan Glick: And that's just something that this did.

[12:56] Mark-Eugene Garcia: But then you delve into the performances and their writing and the staging.

[12:59] Dylan Glick: And I remember talking to Jordan after, and we were talking about that very first scene of intimacy, which is a very long scene.

[13:07] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And I am not prudish whatsoever, like zero percent.

[13:11] Dylan Glick: Yeah.

[13:12] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And there was a moment in there where I'm like, is it happening?

[13:15] Dylan Glick: Is this too much?

[13:15] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Oh shit, is this a lot?

[13:17] Dylan Glick: Yeah, and oh god, oh, finish with off.

[13:20] Mark-Eugene Garcia: But then the monologue happened afterwards about being in the rehearsal and about that experience and about what it was like to have that experience as— and not have that experience as a trans person and have to hide that.

[13:33] Dylan Glick: Yeah, and I was just in tears.

[13:35] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And in that moment, I was like, every second of that uncomfortable intimacy, every second of that like beautiful sex that they were having and staging and all of that was earned as soon as she said that.

[13:49] Dylan Glick: Like it already was great, but it just was like, oh, you know what?

[13:53] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Now I was already on board, but now I'm really on board.

[13:55] Dylan Glick: You've now got my heart.

[13:56] Mark-Eugene Garcia: That— and speaking of heart, that makes me think of David Greenspan's monologue later in the show.

[14:01] Dylan Glick: Where I feel like I think my immediate like knee-jerk reaction, specifically to the like how much kink was in the show, yeah.

[14:09] Dylan Glick: Yeah, I feel like that was like that like surprised me and made me clutch my pearls a little bit, just instinctively. Now that I've given it time, it's one of my favorite plays that I've like absolutely seen in the last few years. Obviously.

[14:24] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Oh my god, that's about that.

[14:26] Dylan Glick: Yes. And we will get there, we will get there audience. You will hear it for yourself.

[14:30] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yes. But that also I feel made it earn it. I don't know, all those monologues.

[14:33] Dylan Glick: Oh, 100%. We're 100% earned and beautiful and just affected me so much.

[14:39] Mark-Eugene Garcia: But I'm gonna let them talk a little bit about it, and we're gonna talk about it afterwards because I still have more questions. We have more questions and thoughts about this, but I really want you all to hear from the team from Prince Faggot. Woo.

[14:53] Jordan Tannahill: This is a photograph of me at the age of four. It was taken during my very short-lived gymnastics career. I found this photo as I was helping my mom move house. It fell out of an old album. And the moment I picked it up, I just burst out laughing because it was so overwhelmingly obvious. Even at the age of four, I was a fairy. I mean, look at him. Posing on top of a pommel horse, uh clutching himself, like a Botticelli painting. I mean, wow, okay. And it set off this little chain reaction of memories of crushes that I'd had on boyhood friends and the older brothers of friends. When I was like five and six, which I had completely pushed from my mind. I remember after this photo was taken, my coach had tried to put me in the advanced group with the older boys.

And I mean, if you've ever seen a male gymnast, they're fucking huge. I mean, they're built, and they walk like Lego men. I was so terrified of them, but also attracted to them. And then that terrified me even more. I just ran out of there and I quit the very next day. And I had completely forgotten about that. So this photo, it felt like some kind of proof that as a four-year-old, I was not a queer man in waiting. I was a queer child. I was queer in the present tense. And obviously at four, I still had no conception of what sex was, but I had a sexuality that is an ever-evolving relationship with my body and my gender and the bodies and genders of others. For me, uh this photo felt like proof that I was actually an unbroken continuum of being.

And as I held this photo, I was reminded of another image of a four-year-old boy that had prompted that same exact laugh of recognition in me. Prince George of Cambridge in 2017, gazing with limpid amazement at an ascending helicopter. Now, I am far from the first queen to clock George in this photo. I remember literally hundreds of people on social media sharing this photo and calling George a gay icon for his adorably fay pose. I mean, there were articles and think pieces about it. And I had shared one of these posts on Twitter, you know, as you did, and I got sucked into this vicious thread with an old school friend about it. And she was like, you know.

[18:06] Jordan Tannahill: This is really outrageous and sick. And I was like, okay, let's talk about that. I have a five-year-old son. Yes, we have all seen the photos. Can you imagine someone writing that about him? Sexualizing a young child like that is disgusting. Walk away, right? I mean, that's when you just put the phone down. But I'm not so good at that. And in all fairness, she was challenging me to think critically about this. So I was like, okay, Kendra, her name is Kendra. Can you not see how all children are sexualized as heterosexual by default? Heterosexuality is projected onto children from literally the moment they're born. And to prove my point, I shared this Cosmo article from 2014 about how the then eight-month-old Prince George managed to draw all attention away from his mother and her hair by receiving a marriage proposal from an older woman.

An 11th-month-old cougar named Ruby Kate Blitz popped out of the crowd wearing a t-shirt bearing the message, Marry Me George. And I was like, do you have a problem with this article, Kendra? And obviously she did, because she blocked me. This exchange, it really got me thinking about this. Children are never too young to be sexualized in the heterosexual consciousness. My papa, uh, that is, um, my grandfather, he used to ask me when I was like five and six, if I had a girlfriend yet. Look, for the queers in the audience, and I'm assuming that's most of you. I mean, let's be honest. We know one of our own when we see one. Because we ourselves were once queer children. We can locate our younger selves in photos of George's poses and prancing, because the world taught us to notice.

And isolate and suppress these affects, or suffer the consequences. And look, I know there's no easy correlative between behavior and sexuality. Feminine traits are beaten out of heteromen just as much as they're beaten out of us. But so long as the Kendras of the world continue to impose our heterosexual default on all children, it is an act of compassion to give shelter to this effete little prince under the broad umbrella of queerness.

[21:13] Jordan Tannahill: Good evening. Thank you so much again, Mihir Kumar and David Greenspan. Woo! It's uh lovely to look out into the audience and see a number of our collaborators in the house. Um I I won't single you all out, but know that we can see you and we appreciate you being here, and uh thank you so much. Um it's a great honor to be first of all. I'm Jordan Tannahill, I'm the playwright of Prince Faggot, uh, and it's a great honor to be joined here today with director Shayok Misha Chowdhury.

[21:51] Shayok Misha Chowdhury: So excited to be here and to be back in the room with you all.

[21:55] Jordan Tannahill: Yeah. For a little context for maybe those who I mean, probably a number of you have seen the play. Um thank you for coming, and thank you for being here tonight. Uh for those of you who didn't, that opening monologue sort of uh sets um sets us up that we actually don't finish the we that's not the end of the monologue, it kind of continues on, and there's this sort of uh uh debate on stage uh around the ethics of actually what Mihir has just said. It's a it's a bit more kind of problematized than we sort of allow. We kind of cut it off before his argument gets a bit um critiqued by other members of the cast. But we sort of set up this kind of meta framework, if you will, uh, to the play, where um when Mihir outlines there is is tracks pretty closely with my own relationship with that photograph of of um, which of course you have to imagine at the moment, we don't have that photograph, but there was a photograph that was circulating on uh Twitter back in 2017 of the then uh five-year-old uh Prince George striking this very effete pose while looking at an ascending helicopter um where his father was uh I guess they were sort of doing a sort of I guess it was uh some kind of military function and and it just struck me in that moment looking at that photograph how much it reminded me or i it had this of this very sort of strong personal uh moment of self-identification with that photograph, which uh it just reminded me of so many photographs of of my own childhood self, kind of um striking similarly unguarded poses and effete poses.

[23:27] Jordan Tannahill: Um and it was sort of this very uh striking image of a kind of pre-shame or almost kind of like a pre-consciousness, uh moment of pre-consciousness, but before um he's you know, ever uh to be kind of uh yeah, made made to critique or be aware of those of those uh of those that that posture. And so I felt um I wanted to kind of give w language to that in in that monologue that that Mihir performs so beautifully, and um and from there it kind of uh is a thought experiment that um the cast then engage in, whereby we say, okay, well, if this is the case, you know, um we're imagining perhaps that this you know, the heir of the British throne grows up to be a gay man. What does that mean for us as queer people?

And what does that mean for the institution of the crown? And what does that mean um for this family? And so we kind of uh set about kind of enacting that, and the the cast themselves um are an ensemble of um diverse, queer, and trans people who inhabit these roles.

[24:33] Jordan Tannahill: And so we are, you know, we're we're kind of also um it's it's about kind of critiquing and looking at the distance of the the uh of the sort of lived experience of our lives as as queer people in New York and these kind of real life figures that we're kind of projecting. Um and there's this sort of interplay between what is real and what is fictional throughout the piece, and and there are these uh monologues that um are fictional but nevertheless are kind of embodied by the actors um as their own, uh except for the very final monologue, which is uh performed by Naomi Allure Stewart, which is um kind of an extended monologue that is totally true to her own life and in her own words about her experience uh being crowned um princess at the pier, uh uh a kind of major figure of the local ball scene.

Um, and she really helps at the very end of the play kind of recontextualize for us what royalty could mean or does mean for us as queer people, um, and how it perhaps resides not so much in something that's inherited or in a place of of monetary or or political power, but in how we show up for our community, how we um are a friend or a mentor, how we mother and father.

[25:46] Jordan Tannahill: Um and um yeah, it's a very kind of powerful, I think, meditation on um where power resides within our own kind of networks of queer kinship. Um so that's a very kind of quick overview of the whole the whole play for those who haven't uh experienced it. Um but it really does depart from that kind of initial photograph and that kind of initial thought experiment that that opening monologue of Mihir's kind of sets up for us.

[26:13] Shayok Misha Chowdhury: Yeah, I guess I wanted to well, I'm just listening to you. Uh it's exciting to have the piece now live in written form. And uh oftentimes I've um the questions that I hear people asking about the piece have to do with. I think when I first received the script, um uh when the folks at Soho Rep reached out to see whether I could direct the piece um and I read the piece on the page. What struck me uh one of the things that struck me so uh in a way that I hadn't experienced before on the page was the way in which you had written something that felt unwritten, which I think is such a um such a significant part of the audience's experience of seeing the show is that it feels as though, or at least that was my experience of uh uh of watching the production unfold, um, is uh how could we attend to this um this sort of dual the the attention that you paid to the meta frame and the writing that really required um a kind of uh us to really believe as witnesses to this thing um that we were watching a kind of uh group thinking thought experiment unfold in real time, even though that was um written by you.

[27:43] Shayok Misha Chowdhury: Um and I don't know, I guess I'm just like that uh to me that feels um that feels exciting. And I know that I have I have friends who saw the show multiple times and what it must be like to sort of register that there is uh uh that the things that feel like they're happening for the first time when you see the production for the first time are in fact uh uh uh repeatable and repeated.

[28:10] Jordan Tannahill: Um and I guess I I mean I don't even know. Now I'm like, we didn't plan this in a way that I was like I'm gonna ask you these questions but I'm like I'm like what um what I I'm sure you put a great deal of thought into the two different registers in which you were writing which was this kind of uh more uh uh a kind of vernacular that we're maybe more used to in playwright that is the kind of inside of the play uh character dialogue not fourth wall breaking language of the play and then this direct conversation that's happening between the folks on stage and the audience um and I don't know what it felt like to write in those two different registers.

[28:52] Shayok Misha Chowdhury: Yeah.

[28:53] Jordan Tannahill: Well I two things about that. One is I guess just quickly from a dramaturgical point of view, I think through a kind of development process, I mean that was always the I guess the intention from the get-go was that there would be this sort of meta framework and and that it would be revealed that the you know that actually the kind of more important play was what was kind of unfolding in the room in the present tense. Like it was like what um the play within the play is really kind of more or less a vehicle for us to tell our own stories. But I think that really just came more and more to the fore as um the process continued on and I think just to speak to that one the a monologue that you'll see after this performed by David was really the final monologue that I wrote for the show and I wrote it like the day before we went into tech pretty much or like two days like a few days before we went it was like very late in the rehearsal room or in the rehearsal process and one of the final days in that rehearsal room.

And I think it just became clear that like everybody, kind of other than John McCree, who plays um Prince George, sort of everyone needed a monologue. And I won't say too much more about it because you'll hear it in a moment. I don't want to give it away, but um, but yeah, that that everyone the container really was actually like the marginalia was actually the main text in in a sense.

[30:20] Jordan Tannahill: Um but just to speak to to what was so exciting about working with Misha and why I you know I began um as a fan of of Misha's. I'd I saw his extraordinary show that he wrote and directed for Soho Rep called Public Obscenities, and actually wrote him just like a fan note about that before we were ever to be collaborators. But I feel like in your work you really interrogate a lot of um these questions around performativity, like what is happening, what are true events unfolding real time um in a way that have not happened before, and like and what are rehearsed events and what's the difference between those two, and like what is it for an actor to play themselves on stage or a version of themselves on stage?

I think those kind of um foundational questions of performance are things that we like both interest us, I think as writers and as makers. And I think the the kind of shared um we have a lot of shared references in in uh in the world of performance. And I think, you know, in a way we made a like a big main stage play, but I think a lot of like the worlds of both Misha and I come from are not really like Capital T theater. Like, you know, I mean it's really is like post-dramatic theater, post-traumatic performance. Um, you know, I think we're like equally excited by like 600 Highwaymen and like Nature Theater of Oklahoma, and like, I don't know, like very like deconstructed, you know, I mean like I don't know, like uh New York City players. And I think like the those performance dramaturgies, I think it's always interesting to kind of bring those to bear on a more traditional process and on more traditional dramaturgy.

[32:00] Shayok Misha Chowdhury: Yeah, for sure.

[32:03] Jordan Tannahill: Yeah, I'm thinking about and I also think um it was, I mean, I was uh at first I was surprised that you had reached out to me in the sense that I was like, what is it um uh because public obscenities in many ways was a departure from the lineage that you're talking about, which I am which is the world in which I have trafficked more frequently. Um and it was I was like, what is it about this like three hour long naturalistic family drama that um made you think that I might be uh an appropriate director for uh for this piece. Um, but there was something that um I I guess I'm also interested in hearing you talk a little about um uh uh I think there is also a shared interest in um in sort of breaking down the uh the wall that I still think exists in our relatively puritanical culture here in the States between um sex acts and behaviors and and the rest of of life and a kind of attention to um uh like how sexuality and intimacy um in uh and and those parts of a queer life show up on stage in ways that attempt or can begin to resemble how those things show up in our real lives, which still feels rare.

[33:46] Jordan Tannahill: It still feels rare to me that I see sex on stage or conversations around or like or just bodies on stage and how b and and those kinds of intimacies that feel like they represent or or remind me of how I moved through my life in that way. And I think you do that so beautifully in this piece.

[34:09] Shayok Misha Chowdhury: Well, the naturalism of the sex in public obscenities was what was so arresting and so um so refreshing. I I you know, just them talking about their foreskins and seeing them like just I don't know, navigate intimacy in the same household as their family. Like I just it just felt um it was uh in a way you like the play is in a way a kind of a a three-hour work of naturalism, but performed by the gob squad. Like I think that's what we were talking about. We're gonna we're gonna like, you know, it's like the gob squad or like force entertainment are coming in, and like that's like the con that's like the frame, and then we're actually inside of that gonna put on this like you know, kind of this realist family drama. And actually, you are a real master of naturalism.

[34:59] Jordan Tannahill: Like you have um in the way you write and the way you direct. So it's like those those uh different modes really live beautifully in you in your practice, like both just like yeah, like oh real, real naturalism, like studied naturalism, and then also a piece like rheology or the work you make with your you know your b your partner Cameron like it this you know just very much in a in a kind of uh raw embodied uh kind of performance tradition um I think that's also I mean I the other what what was wild to me in reading it was also I I think um how do I say this I think that folks might expect given the uh sort of resume that you gave of the the the summary that you gave of the play that the um approach to the enactment of this thought experiment about the royal family by these queer and trans performers um might live in a sort of like high camp or heightened drag universe um and it became clear to us early on in talking that we had a shared interest in that um in those performances um uh being uh uh really honest lived in dare I say naturalistic portrayals of um those characters save a couple of different you know like yeah I think um uh uh David's sort of entrance as Jacqueline has a has a different kind of um uh sort of uh brings a kind of drag into the piece that is necessary in that moment in the play.

[36:46] Jordan Tannahill: But I think folks have remarked to me that uh the that the portrayals of the royal family were unexpectedly um empathetic or um uh detailed or specific and lived in. And so I guess I don't know, I may be I'm interested in hearing you talk a little bit about like what it was like for you to to do that like uh sort of like detailed imagining about uh of those of those actual royal scenes like how you approach those characters.

[37:21] Shayok Misha Chowdhury: I think one of the sort of things we talked about in rehearsals was the difference between drag and realness. And I think we were sort of like like in like ball culture realness is also about really attempting with one like with every fiber of one's being to step into these and embody these uh characters or individuals um or images of power grace um elegance you know uh royalty and and I think in so doing you can really sort of uh like apprehend and and uh discern the the like live difference between like where I'm at as a you know or where maybe say Naomi's at in her life as a queer you know as a as a trans woman living in a New York City versus Prince Charlotte who she steps into with the you know and embodies with full essentially ball realness and as as opposed to kind of a broad drag send up and I think that was a kind of difference of our kind of project or you know like that was a that was part of our um like the methodology of our of our piece um and I think by trying to craft real individuals we're also holding to them to account as real human beings.

[38:47] Jordan Tannahill: You know I think if it's easy to kind of um it kind of lets them off the hook a bit if we're sort of imagining them as these kind of broad um larger than life um kind of monstrous figures or you know I don't know like uh I think it in in a in a in a sense demystifying them make you know rendering them no larger in scale than our ourselves though of course far more powerful um we are we are holding them to a a a kind of account we are giving them also a certain kind of a uh a grace but I think it it's a more complicated journey we go on with them.

[39:24] Shayok Misha Chowdhury: Um we we sort of ask more of all of us. We we give them the amount of sort of human empathy we'd extend to anyone but I think uh we need to invest in them as real people as well with real emotional stakes. Um and um but yeah I think that I think that project of realness in a way culminates with Naomi's monologue where she's really like okay we've been we've been you know exploring what it is for us to be royal and you know there are some like we can only go so far with that ultimately yeah and then we can step into our own power.

[39:59] Jordan Tannahill: Um it was interesting part of the to give a bit of backstory as well about the the piece this this like this the play was initially written um the you know an early draft of it was written in in 2020 during the pandemic um and I sort of at the time imagined it would have this life in London once we started going back to the theater. Um and it was I was, you know, got f quite far along in a kind of pre-production process with the theater company there before um the board of that company was like it's not happening. Like it's you know we can't have you actually depicting these the you know these real individuals on stage. There's, you know, this real child and you know the the we do try to go to some length to kind of create some kind of rhetorical distance between our fictional version of George and the and this for this real um child.

[40:51] Shayok Misha Chowdhury: Um but uh nevertheless that the kind of like the sort of I feel like the risk of the proposal was only seen as a liability in London as opposed to like something like of an asset or something that we could kind of um use for a kind of like interrogative purpose. And anyway so that production kind of imploded but I and I was like at the time I was like maybe I should fictionalize them and I feel like but then I feel like we're sort of just like in this kind of like Brandy's Cinderella universe where there's like no stakes to anyone's identity like okay yeah like the Queen's black and like yeah and like King's trans and whatever. It's like we're in this you know kind of fairy tale where nothing th those histories aren't brought to bear on on these individuals and um so um ultimately Jeremy O'Harris fellow playwright and certainly um uh no stranger to theatrical provocation um was um was like he you know was like oh well fuck just like semi-original draft let me read it he read it really connected with it he's like let's just do it in in in New York and so he really put this process um uh into motion and to I just wanted to speak his name into the room to you know express my gratitude.

[42:12] Shayok Misha Chowdhury: Totally. We did also want to open the conversation up to you all um and uh d uh take questions from you if you have questions for us.

[42:24] Jordan Tannahill: Um and we will we will repeat your questions back into these microphones for the podcast um if you choose to ask them. Oh yes, I'm curious now that it is published that you've talked so much about the real lives of the performers who made so many of these monologues what they were.

[42:53] Jordan Tannahill: Um I I'm curious as to what you hope for the future of the play now that other people can not only be taking on the meta characters who are fictionalized real people, but not fictionalized versions of the real people who played those meta characters.

[43:14] Shayok Misha Chowdhury: That's interesting.

[43:15] Jordan Tannahill: Yes. The question was about now that the play is out in the world as a published object and may live in other productions, what um what hopes and expectations or thoughts do you have about how the sort of I don't know, uh DNA of that original production that's in written form now might transfer into future iterations.

[43:40] Jordan Tannahill: Yeah. I mean, in terms of um so like the again, the only like text that is like actually from someone's actual life is Naomi's final monologue. And so that is like that was like the main decision or like question was like, do future performers just do Naomi's monologue? And the question is yes. Because it's it's so it's so kind of it's like so load bearing for the whole show. I mean, really, the whole show is essentially um not that it's like wiped away in that moment, but it almost kind of functionally is. It's almost like, okay, remember all that that you were like so invested in. It actually doesn't really matter. Like what all that matters is this right now. And um it's true and it's really powerful. And so that I think has to just be um it's so integral to the to the to the piece.

[44:32] Jordan Tannahill: Um and uh the other like the fictional, like other people performing the other fictional monologues is less of a kind of question in terms of like uh re reperformability for me, but I do think that the specific I mean I I don't think we'll ever find better actors than the ones we did for the of this show. Um I don't think they're out there, but um but I also think that like the specific kind of makeup of those actors is so important to your point about how that show functions and works, and I also think that that's a very difficult um alchemy. Um and I think anything less than an ideal alchemy is not worth it to me personally. So I I don't actually foresee licensing this play broadly. Um probably never to schools, for instance.

I think it's just not I actually think there's a kind of like um duty of care, um, as crazy as this may sound to the actual Prince George around this. I actually don't love the idea of like dozens of schools around the world, like America just like I don't know, kind of like engaging with this in a in a kind of um well intentioned but perhaps not fully rigorous way.

[45:42] Jordan Tannahill: Um I think it does require a lot of rigor to kind of nail the very um specific balance um a kind of rhetorical balance that we strike within the show around how we frame the fiction of it. Um and um there's yeah so I think there's something ethical considerations really and also in terms of like how we're presenting these identities um that are kind of baked into the the material. Um so yeah in i I I also don't think the show will ever have well at least not in this current iteration a life in London. I actually think that I I have a real reservations around the show being used as like a cudgel against the local queer and trans community, particularly the local trans community. I think the the temperature around those that discourse there is so hot there.

[46:31] Jordan Tannahill: Um in a very specific way, I mean obviously it's hot here too, but in a very very specific way um there that I actually don't think this will be a helpful intervention into that discourse. I think it actually um I mean quite a part I think it'd be critically panned but I also think and I but I think there and I think the the last word on the show would also be a lot of like agonized thing pieces around its you know its ethics and so forth and I just think there'd be a real kind of like just a cultural misalignment with the show and and London and the tabloids there. But more importantly I would worry about the the the safety of the cast there and um also just the safety of the local queer and trans community there with the show.

[47:08] Jordan Tannahill: So there's like you know on one hand there's like those kind of like major considerations around like safety and uh ethics right down to like kind of artistic value. And I think there's something there's a there is an at I see an artistic value in something being done once really well, maybe a couple more times and never again.

[47:22] Jordan Tannahill: Yeah um I'm sure you've heard of all of the discourse about uh using the word faggot in the title um uh my friend group is mostly older than not all like we're talking 16 plus not all are comfortable with because of their own trauma with that there for some they were called that passing card sort of how do you feel like it it is still a loaded work no matter how much the community tries to reclaim it is still more important um do you if this has a light after C view do you think that seeing them work class or not inside they're building like a C view will be a hindrance benefit no change at all I mean I always got to an altercation myself with someone in the car and building I'm just curious is to where you think about that in especially with all the pieces that have been published about the title.

[48:44] Jordan Tannahill: Yeah the question was about the use of the word faggot in the title and um and how you see the use of the word and its presence by virtue of the how the the piece moves through the world um the word will circulate with the piece and and what effects do you imagine it might have positive or negative net positive or net negative.

[49:09] Jordan Tannahill: Yeah. I mean I have to say coming out of Port Authority and seeing like the word faggot like 10 feet tall emblazoned on the side of a building I'm like, okay, victory. Victory. Um right across from Chick-fil-A. Victory.

[49:27] Jordan Tannahill: Um but uh I do hear what you're saying and I think just as I mean I don't want to um speak for anyone uh out of turn but I there there was even that dialogue within our own cast. I mean we are a multi-generational cast people do not feel uh universally comfortable with reclaiming that term um uh and and and it and I think also even uh there are those who still very strongly identify I'm like I I am a gay man. You know I have fought very hard. I'm not I'm I'm I'm speaking as someone other than myself.

[50:06] Jordan Tannahill: But like you know like there are people who for whom that I'm a gay man and I fought very very hard for that terminology and I stand you know like that for me is something that I hold on to versus queer say you know like and then and the reclamation of that term doesn't feel um it doesn't speak to what I am. And I and I I really understand that position.

[50:24] Jordan Tannahill: I really do and I understand uh though again the position that faggot is not something that is a a comfortable reclamation for everyone and I think um it's not just generational though I think that does play a part and I think um I uh um you know I think we had a very serious question uh and and conversation, we being the producing team, Jeremy included, around like will the New York Times, the New Yorker, etc. Will they publish the name of this this play?

[50:55] Jordan Tannahill: Um, and actually I think in the in the very early pre-press, the New York Times couldn't actually. Like it was kind of like a new play by Jordan Tannahill. We can't tell you what it is. But you know, like it would very be very cheeky about it. And then like Jeremy like wrote to them, it's like, look, guys, you've printed this word faggot so many times in the past. Like Larry Kramer's play, another play called Faggot, like, you know, in the 70s, like, you know, and just kind of sent them a whole list uh from their own archive, basically, of um, you know, multiple times that they printed the word and so they began printing it.

[51:24] Jordan Tannahill: Um, but you know, I don't take for granted um the changeability of of social mores around any any term like that. You know, I think for now we can say it and we feel comfortable and it feels right uh uh for us to say that and to say that like to speak that word or loud into the room. And it may not in ten years' time.

[51:43] Jordan Tannahill: I think, you know, an example I use, and it's uh uh you know, a huge source of inspiration would be like the composer Julius Eastman. A number of his titles are very provocative, and I think different people may have at different times felt comfortable just like their full chest saying some of those titles, which we would not anymore.

[52:01] Jordan Tannahill: And I think the the work of you know uh his compositions begins before you hear those pe those pieces. They the work uh uh begins when we start talking about them and you open the program and you're negotiating your relationship with the title, you know.

[52:18] Jordan Tannahill: And I think um, you know, to some extent, some of the the work in this case was was happening in that kind of um, you know, sort of outside the theater around this around this work. Although I do I I did I f I did to find some of the think pieces ultimately a little bit exhausting.

[52:33] Jordan Tannahill: Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it does have this kind of like extra textual, like, you know, even just with the merch and the objects, like I've become aware of where, like, what contexts um I how in what contexts do I feel comfortable walking around with this sweatshirt on?

[52:54] Jordan Tannahill: Um to whom, you know, like my partner and I were in India in December, and I was like, oh, do I I don't well I don't know. Like what it it requires a kind of thinking, like it travels with you. And it wasn't even I was like, oh, will people even will this word have uh uh like care what kind of history does it carry with uh with it in this particular place?

[53:19] Jordan Tannahill: Um what and also just like when do I choose. I always choose to say the title of the play out loud, but it does in different um it is it is certainly interesting for me to clock uh how uh freely it comes out of my mouth um in certain con in certain conversations in certain spaces versus others.

[53:41] Jordan Tannahill: I was at Tufts last week um for like a campus visit. Um and I d and and I was like, oh, is it uh uh I you know, like I had to think like, did I want to wear this sweatshirt into a room full of student students sort of like uh decontextualized, or like should I you know, like I'm like, oh uh is that is not is that appropriate, but like what kind of uh like how does it shift my own orientation towards um uh because it is, you know, we are in a particular place.

[54:17] Jordan Tannahill: It is a trip to clock that I walk through this city with uh the title of this play emblazoned on me without uh thinking about it. Um and it does, you know, speak to um uh uh the how much has changed uh both sort of like over the course of my life and in the different places in which I've lived, and I'm like how s how I am sometimes I do sometimes marvel at at the fact that that is uh that that that happens, that I am like at a point in my life and in a place and in history in which I can just walk through the world wearing a shirt that says faggot on it, a sweatshirt that says faggot on it without anyone blinking an eye.

[55:06] Jordan Tannahill: Um and yeah, that's an that's an interesting experiment to walk through the world with.

[55:14] Shayok Misha Chowdhury: Um Do we have to we have time for one more question?

[55:18] Jordan Tannahill: Yeah.

[55:19] Shayok Misha Chowdhury: Um I know something a little bit about monologues, and of course the name is nothing about graphical. I'm just curious um speaks to the process and developing other monologues if you can have that conclusion and have auto biology and maybe possibly how much of that was the initial craft they play, how much of that will destroy the personal processing stores and afterwards, that is the process of intercrafting things.

[55:40] Jordan Tannahill: Yeah, the question was about um the monologues other than Naomi's monologue at the end, which um have uh uh baked into them a kind of illusion of um uh uh of autobiography to them. Yeah. What was the process of of writing those monologues like?

[56:00] Jordan Tannahill: Um so the first draft of the play had um the opening monologue in it, and we added and then Mihir added his photograph um and like the lines related to his relationship with his photograph, like where he talks about the uh the pommel horse and so forth.

[56:18] Jordan Tannahill: Um and um but yeah, so that the opening monologue was there. The monologue I wrote for that's performed by Rachel Crowell, um um performer two was in the original draft. Um and um uh and then what other mon I guess there's there's David's monologue. And K. Oh and Kez and K Todd's monologue. So when I um that was not in the first draft, but when I knew that K Todd was going to play um William in the second workshop, I wrote that for him in advance of the workshop process. And so that was that was in the draft before like when he we started the workshop process and um um and yeah, he's like I don't know, it was like really beautiful to see him kind of like I don't know, I mean and difficult f also for him to affirm some of what is in that monologue, but it was I don't know, I it was like just like really struck by what it was for him to be playing royalty and like what the com sort of the various complexities of that might be um both f like theatrically and um uh and obviously racially.

But uh the um and then the final so and then the monologue uh w uh that I wrote with you know for David, um that I I really felt like I was kind of like creating like a kind of haute couture piece for David. Like and we we had spoken in the rehearsal hall um about David's uh if you don't mind me sp speaking about you here um in the third person, um about David uh, you know, living through the the early days of of the AIDS epidemic, losing friends, you know, um, him uh meeting his ultimately the th you know the man who became his husband and and you know it's like there there those stories were in the room and I felt that um you know it felt conspicuous to th that the play deals so openly with sex and kink um and is you know it does have this intergenerational cast and yet AIDS was sort of not at all present in the piece in any way, not even a glancing mention of it.

And so that felt and and I knew I I like it got to the point where like Jeremy and and like Adam Greenfield was like you like David needs to have a monologue. Like there has to be like you have to like just write a monologue for David I'm like I know I know but like what I don't I don't know what I'm gonna write, you know and I just and like there was like the question of pacing, would it work? Would it interrupt the and then and then I just sort of I had this like story that sort of the splinter in the back of my brain about lesbians teaching gay men how to sorry I won't say much more. Actually I'm not gonna I had a story that you will hear in a moment from David when he performs this monologue.

Um and uh and uh I was like you know what I just kind of all clicked and I sort of sat down and I just wrote it in about 15 minutes at the end of rehearsal one night and I feel like I said to David I the the the story in my brain is that like we sent it to you and then like you came in the next day and it was like perfect. And like we all cried. Like it was like you just said like I I felt you felt almost like off book already. Like it was just so incredible. And um uh so it it just um that was a real gift to be kind of but I but that was you know the only instance in which I was really kind of like r really writing for someone um and to some extent his voice and you know and I think um and then with Naomi that monologue arose because we were in the rehearsal hall we were talking and I a and and she we kind of got on the subject of her as kind of royalty within within the ball scene and I asked if we could record this conversation and it was a conversation that she and I had that uh then ultimately I removed my voice from and shaped into that monologue and there's you know um uh very few creative liberties but more or less it's like those are her words you know and just kind of edited and and shaped a bit.

And yeah and so um and that those are the monologues really and I I will say just be to kind of tee up um David's performance uh or reading um uh you know it's first of all obviously a huge honor to have worked with him on this show and um the show for those who saw it or for those who didn't see it you know it does feature um a qu you know a number of like very frank depictions of fetish and kink and I guess speaking personally I was really desiring to kind of collapse the distance between my lived experience. I like I in London I was working as like a BDSM escort at the time. I was making I had no all my commissions and like um productions had had dried up because it was the pandemic and I was like living this like very active kink life and I was like I I need to write about that.

Or my like lived sexual life can't be more interesting than what I'm writing for the stage. And I just want to find a way to kind of bring some of that into the into the writing and um I feel like that journey of like the kink, I guess, and fetish in the show didn't sort of, I think for those who maybe who don't have a personal investment relationship with that world, I think it may have felt, it could have felt gratuitous or just there for shock value. Were it not for, I think hopefully, David's monologue, which I think does help ground it and land it in a sort of historical and kind of personal perspective. And I think it perhaps gives some light, reveal you know, as to or shine some light on the kind of utility of kink and fetish. Um one of the many utilities and kinks of kink and fetish in the queer community over the years. Um David, thank you for your questions. And without further ado, David Greenspan.

[1:02:38] David Greenspan: This was back in the late 80s. We were having a drink after a show, and she said, David, you have to let me teach you how to be fisted. And I said, Pardon? No, thank you. Then she took my hands and she said, David, you have very small hands. You would be very popular. As a top, you should come to my workshops. She and her girlfriend had just begun teaching these fisting workshops at the mine shaft. I'm not even joking. To gay men on Saturday afternoons, like it was a community center. And they'd have airroot cookies and apple juice. And she said to me, I'm doing it because I'm sick of all my friends dying. That year, I held five different friends' hands. As they died. You had people like Larry Kramer shouting, you faggots have gonna stop having sex.

You just have to stop. Well, no one was stopping. I mean, some people did. I did to an extent. I got married eventually, which was one way to survive, I guess. I think the thing that some people forget or doesn't realize is that fetish, the leather, the latex, the BDSM, fisting. I mean, it was on some very fundamental level about survival, about decentering the penis as the sole focus of sex. The thing that nobody tells you, my friend continued as we were sitting at the bar, is that when you're fisting someone, you can feel their heartbeat around your hand. And I thought I'll never forget to say that. I thought oh now that's something I think I would enjoy feeling. A heartbeat against my hand. Against my very small hand.

[1:06:01] Jordan Tannahill: Such gratitude for you. Um we are so lucky to close out tonight with an original song by Arewell Bassett, who was part of our ensemble. She played Performer Four's track, uh, which was Naomi's track. Um, and yeah, an incredible performer. She will be performing tonight, Brother Behave from her new EP Archive, which just came out this week. Do check it out. It's phenomenal.

[1:06:36] Arewell Bassett: So this um EP is uh called Archive, and I'm really excited to share it with you. Um, and this song I kind of feel is um I was saying earlier that like if I was think if I was Prince Charlotte, would I sing this song about my brother and no, not really because she loved her brother and she didn't think that her brother needed to behave necessarily, but this song is kind of my um idea of a love letter to how I feel not only men but all folks could um consider women differently. So without further ado, come from here. Great. This is Brother Behave.

[1:07:32] ♪ Musical number: "Brother Behave" — performed by Arewell Bassett ♪

[1:10:16] Arewell Bassett: So if it's okay with y'all, I'm gonna perform some songs that I haven't gotten to perform a lot live since they recently just came out on my EP.

[1:10:32] Arèwa Basit: Um, this song I don't think needs much of a preface, but it's a shout out to men who need to be better.

[1:10:53] Arèwa Basit: One more time, because the men really, really need to be better. You ready?

[1:11:00] Arèwa Basit: Oh, brother. You think you love women? Oh boy, you're so brave. Call me your mother, but I'm not your slave, and neither was she. So, brother, we hate, avert your eyes from my personhood and focus just as a person should your father is a person would be behave just like you.

[1:12:26] Arèwa Basit: Go drink, Daddy's milk, and leave me out to try a circle of churks in meaningless perks. I don't understand, and I do not choose to know why. Oh, brother, brother good love befriending a one you don't want to fuss your eyes are fixated on my media eternally Oh, brother, good love.

[1:12:50] Arèwa Basit: Oh, brother, good love. Perhaps you love lips again. Perhaps you leave cause perhaps it's more cozy. Perhaps we're under his thoughts, and all of the substance have left you all nourished and empty, hate no single crime. You like girls, but you hate women. What a shame. Why the shame? Why did shame what a shame?

[1:14:54] Arèwa Basit: Why the shame Oh brother? Oh brother. Avert your eyes from my personhood and focus just as a person should the father is a person like you brother Oh brother Oh brother Oh brother Oh brother Brother behave Oh brother Brother behavior Can I Can I get a little more volume in this mic just a little more Flirt with fire Fuel the flame Conflict always seems to find us.

[1:17:11] Arèwa Basit: What if conflict was behind us? I'd like to move forward with you. Maybe a new flame. Now I'm learning where to find me. Left those burning days behind me. And if I continue with you, he'll burn a blue flame. Ready or not? Let's make it hide. I should probably give you some space. Well, I'm no longer fueling the chase. And you're not gonna play in my face. Not anymore.

[1:18:05] Arèwa Basit: Go in deep new deaths to explore living in a blue flame. Burning up a blue flame tryna catch a blue flame, blue flame. But the pain is so inhumane, time for a new flame. Beware of the boardwalk. The path to pleasure is paved in perception, masculine deception, deviant obsession, the air is so thick, I've latched like a tick on my backbones, my deep tones. I'm making them sick.

[1:19:10] Arèwa Basit: How come? I'm making them sick, living in a different than hay, discarded at night, but the pain is but embraced in the day and why you're working my nerve. But the pain is so not one single sir. Hate is a strong word, love is much stronger, but I will not wait in this line, any longer. How come? And so farewell to the diva, farewell to the queen, farewell to the spell that made nice girls turn me in.

[1:20:37] Arèwa Basit: Farewell to just favoring folks for their parts while actively turning away from our hearts. Farewell to the gatekeepers. Farewell to the door. Farewell to the cash shop. We try to ignore. Farewell to the island. Farewell to the pines. And I don't want a burn. I don't want to burn no more. Farewell.

[1:21:31] Arèwa Basit: Dweller, make some noise. So this has been just one of the biggest, greatest privileges of my career so far. I am so honored to be a part of Dweller Festival. This is a Black History Month dream, a legacy that is so much bigger than just me, just this music. It's bigger than any one of us. It's actually all of our ancestors rallying together right now in this moment for us to have this moment.

[1:22:12] Arèwa Basit: So I want to give a shout out to Frankie for organizing this incredible festival. I want to give a shout out to every person working on Dweller. I want to give a shout out to all of my incredible friends and family here in the audience. I put out Archive three. I say I, but we. It's been a full village effort. Um we put this project out three weeks ago, and it's already had such a life.

[1:22:47] Arèwa Basit: Um, but this has been the big inaugural performance, and to celebrate, we have merch. So I don't know if you've gotten a chance to see anyone in some really cool archive swag. But we have some archive beanies, some of them are customized. Check it out over here. Boom boom boom cow. And um I would love if you want to support the project, get yourself some swag. We also have some external hard drives, which I'll take it out and show you, but it's currently plugged into my looper because I'm using it right now. It has a USB and a USB C on it, and it also has a lot, all the music and a lot of wonderful content on it. Um so sip on that.

[1:23:43] Arèwa Basit: Um but yeah, I just want to say thank you. Thank you so so much for being here. I love you so much, every single one of you. Um, and this last song is the title track of my debut EP. This is Archive.

[1:24:28] Arèwa Basit: I'm crying, you're crying.

[1:24:31] Jordan Tannahill: Who's crying more?

[1:24:34] Arèwa Basit: I'm fighting and you're fighting.

[1:24:37] Jordan Tannahill: What are we fighting for?

[1:24:40] Arèwa Basit: You're hiding and I'm trying to build and restore, but you're running, so I'm running right out the door and hurt so bad when I tell you I'm sad.

[1:25:12] Arèwa Basit: So I'll keep you in my archive.

[1:25:15] Arèwa Basit: I gotta let my heart dive.

[1:25:18] Arèwa Basit: So I'll keep you in my archive in my external hard drive.

[1:25:24] Arèwa Basit: I gotta keep you in my archive.

[1:25:27] Arèwa Basit: So I can let my heart dive.

[1:25:29] Arèwa Basit: So I'll keep you in my archive.

[1:25:36] Arèwa Basit: You know you have me, but I need to be free and find a way to just survive.

[1:25:47] Arèwa Basit: So I will keep you safe in my sacred place in my archive.

[1:26:00] Arèwa Basit: You're winning and I'm winning, but we've lost the plot.

[1:26:05] Arèwa Basit: If I'm losing and you're losing when we're all we've got, so I'm building, rebuilding, and time will reveal the work and the progress.

[1:26:19] Arèwa Basit: We both need to heal a drive.

[1:26:27] Arèwa Basit: We cannot contend.

[1:26:33] Arèwa Basit: So now we stand in the rain, and I'll keep you in my archive.

[1:26:47] Arèwa Basit: So I can let my heart drive.

[1:27:01] Arèwa Basit: So I'll keep you in my archive.

[1:27:08] Arèwa Basit: Holding on so close, I need you the most once we have taken space and time.

[1:27:19] Arèwa Basit: So you will be here safe in my sacred place within my archive.

[1:27:31] Arèwa Basit: You're grieving and I'm grieving.

[1:27:34] Arèwa Basit: We're at a loss.

[1:27:37] Arèwa Basit: I'm leaving, you're leaving, but at what cause you're needing and I'm needing to be left alone.

[1:27:48] Arèwa Basit: But even if you feel lonely, you're not all alone.

[1:27:53] Arèwa Basit: I'm in your archive.

[1:27:55] Arèwa Basit: Go on and let your heart thrive.

[1:27:58] Arèwa Basit: You can keep me in your archive.

[1:28:01] Arèwa Basit: In your external hard drive.

[1:28:04] Arèwa Basit: Go on and keep me in your archive.

[1:28:07] Arèwa Basit: You gotta let your heart thrive.

[1:28:09] Arèwa Basit: So you can keep me in your archive.

[1:28:15] Arèwa Basit: Archive.

[1:28:20] Arèwa Basit: Thank you so much.

[1:28:22] Arèwa Basit: Get you some merch.

[1:28:24] Arèwa Basit: My name is Arèwa, and I will have you all in my archive.

[1:28:27] Arèwa Basit: Love you forever.

[1:28:29] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And we are back.

[1:28:30] Dylan Glick: And we're back.

[1:28:30] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And we're back.

[1:28:31] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And that's just a clip.

[1:28:32] Dylan Glick: That's just a little bit about the show.

[1:28:34] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Like it's something you have to experience.

[1:28:36] Dylan Glick: Yeah.

[1:28:36] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And it's so hard because he even talked about maybe no one will do it.

[1:28:39] Dylan Glick: Like maybe I like the integrity he has about saying that he doesn't want someone to do it unless they can do it right.

[1:28:46] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah.

[1:28:46] Dylan Glick: And that's tough.

[1:28:48] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Cause as a player, you're a player, right?

[1:28:49] Dylan Glick: Like you want people to do your shows.

[1:28:51] Mark-Eugene Garcia: You want people to tell your stories.

[1:28:52] Dylan Glick: Yeah.

[1:28:53] Mark-Eugene Garcia: But you also want them to do it right.

[1:28:55] Dylan Glick: And it's being in that position of, oh no, they're not doing it right.

[1:28:59] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Like, where do I lie in this?

[1:29:01] Dylan Glick: I'm sure it's a hard call to make.

[1:29:03] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I also appreciated the whole, like, didn't you say like something about not bringing it to the UK or something like that?

[1:29:08] Dylan Glick: Or just it would become a little bit like a parody in some ways, too, because it's because the royal family is there.

[1:29:13] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Because it's going to want it to affect like him specifically, which I'm like, that's I'm like, yeah, like the team.

[1:29:18] Dylan Glick: Yeah.

[1:29:19] Mark-Eugene Garcia: It's so nuanced and so interesting.

[1:29:21] Dylan Glick: And one thing I enjoyed, I enjoyed so much of it, but one thing I enjoyed from a writing point of view, and maybe you have some experience on this too, working on Emilio, it allowed me to unlock a part of my writing that I was a little afraid to unlock, which was a lot of where the intimacy goes.

[1:29:39] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah.

[1:29:39] Dylan Glick: And so like I have a show I missed connections, I have even Goat Blood had some, this new thing I'm working on about.

[1:29:46] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah.

[1:29:47] Dylan Glick: All has that.

[1:29:48] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And I think I was shying away from it because I felt like I had to.

[1:29:55] Dylan Glick: And I it was more about what would are people, what will people think of my brain if I'm like, and then this happens.

[1:30:02] Mark-Eugene Garcia: But then you see this show and realize that not only can it happen, but it can be beautiful.

[1:30:08] Dylan Glick: And moving, yeah.

[1:30:09] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah, and real.

[1:30:10] Dylan Glick: And it was some of the most beautiful staging I'd ever seen, let alone like a scene of intimacy.

[1:30:15] Mark-Eugene Garcia: But just yeah, it was honest.

[1:30:18] Dylan Glick: I feel like you saying that this is just a random anecdote.

[1:30:21] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I remember being in college and writing a one act play about two queer women meeting at a rest stop in Delaware, and one of them is like on their way because like on their way to Florida because one of their parents like got injured, and they're okay, but they're like coming home.

[1:30:37] Dylan Glick: And this person is like a baby queer person who like has not even maybe realized that they are queer, and they like cross paths with this butch confident queer person who just they have this moment together, and like they're like one of them says something very sexual to the other one at one point, and I was in the audience and the first night it happened.

[1:30:57] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I went right I just put my head in my shirt for listeners, but I don't know.

[1:31:01] Dylan Glick: I feel like it's it's scary to go into that territory, but it's also I think some of the art that fascinates me the most.

[1:31:08] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Oh, yeah.

[1:31:08] Dylan Glick: And so it's yeah, I don't know.

[1:31:09] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah, and it's pulling in, like Jordan talked about pulling in from experience from some of his journeys that he's been on, and I feel like I do the same, but then at the same time, you're also thinking of what are people gonna think.

[1:31:20] Dylan Glick: Yeah, it's like people gonna say I'm like, my mom's gonna watch this probably you know what I mean.

[1:31:24] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Exactly.

[1:31:25] Dylan Glick: And it's like even when we were doing the in the event with the scene from Goat Blood, and there was certain things where I was saying, I'm like, my mom's right here in the front row, and I'm talking about this intimate moment, and it's you kind of have to get over it, yeah, but also and aside from just intimacy in general, like writing telling a story is to me one of the most intimate things you can do with somebody.

[1:31:49] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And I remember I had a friend that I was sending a script to, and he was like, I really love to read your work.

[1:31:55] Dylan Glick: We were both writers, we were still getting to know each other as writers and as friends, like we just met and like started bonding.

[1:32:00] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah, and that moment of terror before I emailed the script because I was like, this person's gonna learn something new about how my brain works.

[1:32:11] Dylan Glick: And that's not something that we share with a lot of people.

[1:32:14] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I feel like I it like for me, it's I think it's probably the same thing, but for me, I'm like, I don't want them to think it's bad.

[1:32:22] Dylan Glick: I like which is I don't know, maybe a little bit more vain, but I'm like but not vain, but it's yeah, I get it.

[1:32:28] Mark-Eugene Garcia: But also at the same time, it is I think you're so right in terms of we write about things that are very important to us, yeah, and like we pull from our personal experiences and we want to make statements about things that we care about and that kind of stuff, and so it's like when you share that with another person, are they going to reject it?

[1:32:28] Dylan Glick: Are they going to accept it?

[1:32:42] Mark-Eugene Garcia: What are they gonna think?

[1:32:43] Dylan Glick: Yeah, yeah.

[1:32:43] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I think the first time I sent you a script, I was like, I'm like, this is my coworker too, so I have to see him on a regular basis.

[1:32:49] Dylan Glick: And yeah, for me, I here's the thing.

[1:32:51] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I had the opposite reaction with you because I was like, I want to get sleepy hot on a good enough place so I can set it to Mark because I'm really proud of it and I want to share it with him.

[1:32:58] Dylan Glick: But Emilio, I have not I finally sent it to you because it's I like it's like the child that I'm like, do people like my child?

[1:33:05] Mark-Eugene Garcia: You know what?

[1:33:06] Dylan Glick: It's like I'm like scared to present.

[1:33:07] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I held on to eight tales for 10 years because I was afraid I was afraid that people wouldn't like it or wouldn't think it was like the other stuff I was writing, and it ended up being the thing that opened a door.

[1:33:16] Dylan Glick: So I'm excited to read it.

[1:33:17] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I'm excited to sit down and take like a day off from everything and just read it.

[1:33:22] Dylan Glick: But yeah, no, it's interesting.

[1:33:23] Mark-Eugene Garcia: There is a friend of mine who she ended up writing a movie that she get she got the title because of something I told her that somebody had once asked me because he it was a musical director from a show I worked on, and then he pulled me aside one day and he goes, I would love to write with you.

[1:33:37] Dylan Glick: Let's work on a song together.

[1:33:39] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And I was like, okay, and then I was telling this director friend of mine that, and she ended up she was working on a piece for these two women who fall in love and play guitar together, and she's like, well, that's it, that's the title, write with you.

[1:33:50] Dylan Glick: Because it was I was saying like writing with someone, it that sharing with someone is one of the most intimate things you can do, and so it's just it's beautiful the way that to tie this tangent together that Jordan Tannahill led us into his brain and into his heart.

[1:34:08] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah, like it just showed us a way that Jordan looks at the world and how we can look at the world, and it just it I got me something like going off of this, and maybe this will have to be cut.

[1:34:27] Dylan Glick: I don't know.

[1:34:28] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I'm just gonna say it, and if it has to be cut, cut it.

[1:34:30] Dylan Glick: I thought that also I really appreciate the way that like this play talks about sex, typically like in the in terms of like you said earlier, just like showing intimacy is like something beautiful.

[1:34:39] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I also appreciate that it's just like these like critical, intelligent conversations about sex and intimacy.

[1:34:45] Dylan Glick: And so even though like you think you look at the title, you think it's taboo, it's so normalized and it's so I don't know, freeing and like exciting.

[1:34:52] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah, and uh also side note to Dave Anzuelo, who worked on the intimacy of the show.

[1:34:56] Dylan Glick: Oh yeah.

[1:34:57] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Love I already loved his work, but love your work even more.

[1:35:00] Dylan Glick: Yeah, no, it just it hit you in the heart.

[1:35:03] Mark-Eugene Garcia: It I feel like it had to shake you to get your attention.

[1:35:09] Dylan Glick: Yeah, and then once it had your attention, hit you in the heart and said, look at this and take this story, this unreal story that could possibly happen someday, but use these actors as vessels to look through those eyes and experience it and see how this affects you, how this it's not just a story about a royal family, this is a story about you.

[1:35:34] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah.

[1:35:34] Dylan Glick: And it just I think that's what it was.

[1:35:36] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Like to, in a way that some other shows, there's other shows out there that say this is a show about the gay experience or the queer stories, and you fit in.

[1:35:44] Dylan Glick: And I've had that where I'm like, no, I don't.

[1:35:46] Mark-Eugene Garcia: But this is one that was like, this had nothing to do with me, like whatsoever.

[1:35:50] Dylan Glick: Yeah, but it completely had everything to do with me.

[1:35:53] Mark-Eugene Garcia: It's also yeah, I totally relate to that because I'm like, I'm not in a position where I feel like I have to walk away from my family or like privilege or like that kind of stuff.

[1:36:00] Dylan Glick: Yeah.

[1:36:00] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I'm like, I but I totally felt for him.

[1:36:05] Dylan Glick: And like I don't know, yeah, it's like 100%.

[1:36:08] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Like that, and that's the thing is for both of them.

[1:36:10] Dylan Glick: Like, I felt bad for one and I felt bad for the other, and I just I didn't want them to get together because they were toxic, but I wanted them to get together because I've got to work out.

[1:36:17] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah, like I've been in that toxic relationship before where it's just like passion and crazy, and sometimes it's the most beautiful thing in the world, and uh it's also unhealthy.

[1:36:27] Dylan Glick: And yeah, I was in that place, and that's exactly where he wanted us, I think, too.

[1:36:31] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah, it definitely it's so like sad.

[1:36:33] Dylan Glick: The whole like they definitely I think it was good that they didn't wind up together because dev deserves better.

[1:36:38] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Oh, spoiler, sorry.

[1:36:41] Dylan Glick: Sorry, but I at the same time it's I don't know, you want that like fairy tale half ending for a yeah.

[1:36:47] Mark-Eugene Garcia: It just I don't know.

[1:36:49] Dylan Glick: It's just one of the most gorgeous things I ever saw.

[1:36:51] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah, and I it was one that I as soon as I saw it, we were already planning on doing this event, and I happen and I didn't know I was gonna see the show at that point when we planned it, and then I saw the show and immediately wrote to them.

[1:37:03] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I'm like, do you want to do it earlier?

[1:37:04] Dylan Glick: Do you want to come in?

[1:37:05] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Do you want to come in now?

[1:37:05] Dylan Glick: Like for me, I was just like, I just want to talk about seven today.

[1:37:08] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah, I just want to talk about this show.

[1:37:10] Dylan Glick: I just want to talk about it with the writers, with the creators, with everybody.

[1:37:13] Mark-Eugene Garcia: So excited.

[1:37:13] Dylan Glick: Yeah.

[1:37:14] Mark-Eugene Garcia: No, and it's one it was the one of the fastest sellouts that we've had here on our website.

[1:37:19] Dylan Glick: Yeah.

[1:37:19] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And so I'm so glad that we got a chance to like really delve into it and meet the people involved and hear what they had to say and hear some scenes.

[1:37:27] Dylan Glick: It's just it was incredible.

[1:37:29] Mark-Eugene Garcia: It was my heart.

[1:37:29] Dylan Glick: And I'm glad we get to yap about it now.

[1:37:31] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Exactly.

[1:37:32] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Our next episode is going to be Sappho's Garden.

[1:37:37] Dylan Glick: We're gonna delve into variation on the theme.

[1:37:40] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Talk about queerness.

[1:37:41] Dylan Glick: Yes, Sappho's Garden.

[1:37:43] Mark-Eugene Garcia: It just themes and themes.

[1:37:45] Dylan Glick: So I look forward to bringing that to the table in our next episode.

[1:37:49] Mark-Eugene Garcia: So remember to follow us on Instagram at Drama Book Show Podcast.

[1:37:53] Dylan Glick: And don't forget to subscribe to our Eventbrite at Drama Book Shop.

[1:37:57] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Give us a follow and some stars and some comments on wherever you listen to your podcasts.

[1:38:04] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And remember, all the books we talk about here on the podcast can be found here at the bookshop, and so can we, and we will see you at the bookshop.